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Friday 25 September 2009

Verity Murphy | 17:54 UK time, Friday, 25 September 2009

Here is what is coming up on tonight's Newsnight and Newsnight Review:

By Emily Maitlis:

"This is it!" declared David Cameron, at the start and finish of a speech at the Carlton Club this week.

"This is it!" declared Michael Jackson launching his 02 tour, just before he dropped dead of a drugs overdose.

We all know the power of a pithy sentence which sets out your stall.

Where would Barack Obama be without "Yes we can"? Where would Bill Clinton have been without "It's the economy stupid"? Where would Gordon Brown have been without "Not flash, just Gordon".

Erm... Well, anyway.

Tonight our culture correspondent will pull apart the power and the pitfalls of the political slogan. But not until we've made you work first, by telling us your ideas for a Tory slogan on our blog.

Plus, now we are (G)20.

In Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, world leaders are crunching serious numbers. Tonight, we're more concerned with one very simple one. The leap from G8 to G20.

What does it mean? Well, in essence, it's a recognition that the old clique of a few rich Western countries no longer rule the world and that real power now lies with Argentina, Brazil, China, India, Saudi Arabia and others.

An acknowledgement, you will say, that comes at least a year too late.

But how does this New World Order - disparate countries with very separate agendas - solve a problem like Iran.

It's the most pressing one on the table right now with the revelations of another nuclear facility in the country - something Tehran has denied for years.

We'll be asking the Foreign Secretary if the threats of sanction will ever become anything more substantial.

And we'll ask a global panel - including the flamboyant businessman David Tang - if the G20 can really solve the world's problems.

And here is Tim Marlow with what is coming up on Newsnight Review:

Tonight we put art, theatre and television drama on the couch and into analysis.

Last February, the National Gallery staged an exhibition exploring Picasso's relationship to the art of the past, but without actually hanging old master paintings in the same rooms.

Now Tate Britain is giving Turner the old master treatment, but this time the pictures go head to head and landscape to landscape.

Taking up the gauntlet thrown down by Rembrandt or Titian is difficult enough but having your work directly compared is ambitious and risky to say the least.

So how does Turner measure up and what does he seem to learn? Does the show diminish his radical status as a fore-runner of modern art or consign him to that of a mere academic artist unable to transcend the past? The answers, of course, will be complicated but worth tuning in for.

Over at the Royal Academy, sculptor Anish Kapoor is firing 20lb of red paint and wax at a gallery wall from a large gun, well - canon to be precise - every 20 minutes throughout his exhibition there which has just opened.

In the past Kapoor's work has been seen as contemplative, reflective, sublime and richly evocative.

Now, as he tells us in an interview, it has become more playful, more confrontational and more violent.

The US television series In Treatment has won Emmys and a Golden Globe and has already been screened extensively in Eastern Europe, Portugal, France and Sweden.

Britain's initial reluctance to buy into a series of programmes featuring Gabriel Byrne as Paul Weston, a psychotherapist who conducts real time sessions with five regular patients, is something we'll be analysing now that Sky Arts have taken the plunge.

Will it sustain nine solid weeks of screening and who is really being given therapy - Paul, his patients or the viewer?

Finally, former director of the National Theatre Richard Eyre has criticised the BBC this week for its failure to screen classic drama.

We'll be taking a look at the stage- screen divide and exploring the future possibilities for theatre on the box.

So join me and my guests Paul Morley, Lisa Appignanesi and Hari Kunzru on the couch on the box at 11pm.



Page 1 of 2

  • Comment number 1.

    Gordon Brown. He's responsible.

  • Comment number 2.

    Letter to my ( Tory ) MP

    Thanks for sending me a copy of your policy green paper No 8, I can't view it on the web because its in word format, I do not have word and will not buy it on principle.

    Page two is mostly party political rhetoric, then on page three it suggests a target reduction of 80% on 1990 CO2 levels. This can never be achieved without closing down all industry an probably exterminating a large proportion of our current population. On page four, apart from the worthwhile idea of a feed in tariff so households can sell surplus electric from solar panels ( micro wind generation is well proven to be worthless ) it proposes wasting money on alleged smart meters, plus spending a fortune on infrastructure for off-shore wind farms.

    Page five puts much faith in bio-gas, which is OK from farm waste and human sewage, however home collection will use more energy to source than it can ever produce. Perhaps the emphasis should be put on reducing food waste, our household produces virtually none apart from the odd fruit core. No specific mention of a Severn and Morecambe bay Barage, just reference to " marine energy parks " which could mean more pointless wind turbines.

    Things get really Corporate Nazi eco-fascist on page six, forcing the public to borrow £6,500 to be paid back on higher energy bills for the next 25 years. Other suggestions come from the Corporate Nazi angle and there is no money to build a new high speed rail network. Even if the money is found the majority of the population will not be able to afford to use it, just like the current rip-off walk on Virgin fares.

    Page seven refers to the eco-fascist investment scam the stock market parasite envisage, energy supply is currently a cartel and there looks like no chance of breaking it. More rhetoric on page eight and nine, especially on alleged social justice and the impossible dream of insulating every home when many like ours and many others in the Ribble Valley are not suitable for loft or cavity insulation.

    The next few pages are mostly political rhetoric yet again, but on page 16 it does refer to the potential of the Severn Barrage. Continued on 17 it becomes clear that said project has become poisoned by the eco-fascists yet again. More rhetoric on Wind Farms, and then a really short paragraph ( page eighteen ) on Nuclear, as you said at our recent Downham meeting probably the most important future energy source.

    Also on 18 energy from waste is almost sidelined as a minor contributor when in actual fact we could get 10% of our electricity base load from it. I suspect that the stock market parasites are flexing their influence here, prefer to export plastic to China and change money. Plastic is made from a fraction of crude oil which was waste until the 1950s and burnt in things like steam ships and railway locomotives. It makes sense to use the energy from waste plastic in order to make other fuels last longer. Perhaps in a couple of hundred years time someone will be excavating old landfill sites to recover the energy from the non biodegradable plastic therein. Bio-mass was mentioned, but the UK needs all the practical agricultural farm land it can get for food production. Of course this is less important if the eco-fascists get their virtual genocide plan to reduce the population of the UK to 30 million off the drawing board.

    I suspect that some of the authors have shares in bio-gas projects companies given the coverage it gets on page 20. Combined heat and power is a good idea, local waste incinerators could provide district heating (21) but far better to build them in rural areas and use the waste heat after electricity generation to heat greenhouses. 22 goes on at length about " smart meters" but its all rhetoric aimed at providing a false market for the technology.

    Plenty of rhetoric about bio-fuel for transport on 23, again using land the world needs to grow food. No mention of Chlorella, a fast growing Chinese pond slime which in dried powder form BBC Tomorrow's World had a Perkins diesel engine running on in the studio back in the 1990s. Admittedly not very well but it could have been developed for diesel eclectic traction in motor vehicles. In any case when the oil eventually runs out its possible to distill a fuel suitable for diesel engines from peat. Shell bought the rights for energy from Chlorella and all research was suspended.

    Electric cars are almost a non starter on main routes littered with roundabouts, as usual nothing about engineering the roads to be more fuel efficient even though there is a potential saving of up to 10% on current emissions. We need to encourage the purchase of more fuel efficient small engine cars, the trouble is that the driving test is useless as far as driving efficiently is concerned. When I was waiting for you at Downham I observed cars coming up the hill and going around the corner. Many emitted black smoke due to being in too high a gear as taught by useless driving instructors to pass the quasi-religious driving test.

    Page 36 onwards in fact the whole of section 6 attempts to appease the stock market parasites and now there are a whole new set of carbon trading parasites to add the the " socially useless " aspect of the financial markets. Couldn't even be bothered to read section 7, just describes the potential for government investment in a virtual welfare state for the the banks and their stock market parasites.

    All in all the green paper is a complete wasted effort and I suspect that any half intelligent eleven year old child could have done a better more informed job. It just confirms my suspicion that Greg Clarke has got a vacuum between his ears. A report designed to appease the eco-fascists and provide hope of a massive green investment scam for the stock market parasites.

    Said green paper is all too reminiscent of Chamberlain returning from Munich and saying " this is the piece of paper with both mine and Adolf Hitler's signature on it " over the Sudeten land. If David Cameron thinks that its a good report he is no fit to lead our country for the next several years. The Arctic polar ice cap has grown by 0.6 million square miles this summer, perhaps due to less alleged ecology scientists breaking it up with icebreaking ships to open up a possible north west passage. No doubt some stupid eco-fascist will attempt to portray that the ice cap is growing due to the global recession and a consequent reduction in CO2 emissions. The eco-fascist influence on British politics is perhaps similar to the VD virus Chlamydia, you don't know you have got it until its too late and the perhaps irreversible damage to our long term economy is done.

    At least I understand your personal position on the " Environment " and I will be supporting you to the best of my ability at the forthcoming general election. ( My MP has come out in public against road fuel tax increases and would scrap any subsidy for wind farms )

  • Comment number 3.


    "That's it - the end."

  • Comment number 4.


    Israel has been told to come clean over its nuclear facilities. It is outraged apparently. Why? ;-)

    See this and its follow up.

    Can everyone (excepts narcissists and psychopaths) see anything a little odd? Narcissists do this. They have a scotoma. It 'do as I say, not as I do'......bigtime - it's why they have an overwhelming sense of confidence and entitlement like children. They are emotional children.

    Watch the behaviour. Hyperemotional. Prone to hissy-fits (narcissistic rage) :-(

  • Comment number 5.

  • Comment number 6.

    Regarding Iran.
    This facility didn't have to be declared because it contains no nuclear material, yet Iran told the IAEA.
    The IAEA has no evidence that Iran is doing anything other than that its entitled. i.e. enrich uranium for fuel (LEU).

    On the other hand, we have India, Israel and Pakistan who refuse inspections and are outside the strict NPT regime.

    Remember 2002? This is what was done to Iraq. Crippling sanctions, followed by regime change.

    Let's hope China sees through this orchestrated hysteria.

  • Comment number 7.

    On a slightly lighter note:

    I hope, in the report from the U.S. city of Pittsburgh, we don't have to endure constant references to "Pittsburgh Pennsylvania", as opposed to the correct, " Pennsylvania".

    I'm sure I can't be the only person to cringe when I hear Americans refer to "London England" and "Paris France", so it's quite galling to hear the same from Britons. We had to endure this type of laziness for eighteen months, in the run-up to the U.S. General Election, so, please, no more.

  • Comment number 8.

    The Staffordshire Hoard in some detail :

    Then think about Emin, Hirst and canons firing red paint and wax.

  • Comment number 9.

    Strugglingtostaycalm (#7) They have cities with the same names in different states, hence Paris Texas. They'd get confused otherwise. They generalise this.

    They're anarchists remember. Have you not been there? ;-)

  • Comment number 10.

    from mimpromptu
    I'm not sure about some of the contributors to Newsnight but I can spot the differences between what you have on offer art and communication wise and them.
    Will try and browse through your suggestions later or tomorrow morning as I'm now in need of a snooze.
    I didn't go as far as doing gymnastics directly on ice today /as in one of your links from this morning/ but enjoyed gliding and twirling to a variety of musical pieces, including Albinoni's Adagio, Miriam Makeba, Chopin's Funeral March & Allegro from Sonata g-moll, Portugese folk music and a few of Leonard Cohen's songs: 'I'm your man', 'Tower of Song', 'Always' and 'Tacoma Trailer' from his album 'The Future'.
    Thank you

  • Comment number 11.

    from mimpromptu
    I've managed not to get my bottom wet on ice today.
    Thanks again for the dittie.
    P.S It looks like quite a few scandals are waiting to be revealed, and it's not only you talking about them. 'Shattering' will probably be one of the ways of giving a name to them.

  • Comment number 12.

    I think the G11 should be named 'The Federation' and everyone should be made to wear red, blue or yellow pyjamas and look at the World with the child-like fascination of a Californian science fiction script-writer.

    Iran's nuclear weapons could be then easily solved by Captain Obama ordering "Shields up!" and Brown, playing the canny Scottish engineer, could retort:

    "I canna do it Captain, Quantitive Easing has robbed us of all our power!"

    ...and with those words the Borg drones would inherit the Earth... or something like that. Save me an Orion slavegirl for the end of the World show... Oh, hang on, Harperson just made them illegal.

    Humanity would survive though as all the bankers would flee the planet and head out to spread their twisted version of Humanity throughout the Cosmos. Buy shares in Gucci space boots now!

  • Comment number 13.

    The more there are in the G20, the more there are to fund predatory financial services.

  • Comment number 14.

    tawse57 (#12) Nice one.

    Newsnight Review tonight. The links I provided on 'modern art'.... I hope they registered with a few.

    We are in trouble.... More people need to wake up to this and have the confidence to call the nonsense being passed off as art the 'rubbish' it really is. If you don't you'll be buying or reading it!

  • Comment number 15.


    It's unregulated. It doesn't work. Nobody needs any qualifications. The NHS wants it reglated to protect the unwary/vulnerable. It's just more anarchism. This is true.

  • Comment number 16.

    Newesnight Review
    The best edition for ages. You could really hear people (especially Morley) not only starting a debate, but being given the chance to actually engage in one. For too long this programme has been a cosy corner trying to conform to the strictures of the presenter's "down to the second" limits of the presenter/producer's notion of competent presentation, always to the detriment of a contributor's comment. Tonight Tim Marlow appeared to break free fromm that; long may him and his style be allowed to flourish!

  • Comment number 17.

    Having spent the mid eighties working with/for the indomitable Jill Sinclair at ZTT where the whole "art as commodity"issue culminated in a couple of t-shirts,Paul Morley's discomfort with competitiveness re: the Turner exhibition is somewhat bewildering.

    PS. Paul, thirty years too late, thanks for the Crackerjack pencil.

  • Comment number 18.


    Ho JJ. Are you being your own worst enemy - again? Looks seriously like a hissy fit to me! (:o)

  • Comment number 19.

    barrie (#18) No, this is a fact, I'm serious. There is no empirical evidence that psychotherapy works, it has nothing to do with clinical psychology or psychiatry as professions (which require lots of training). Psychotherapists require no qualifications, anyone can set oneself up as one. The NHS and BPS is trying to get it controlled as it's largely quackery. I'm not saying that clinical psychology or psychiatry is all that effective either, mind you. But the latter can at least assess and help manage what's largely genetic. Sometimes that is useful, it's a sorting and behaviour management thing.

  • Comment number 20.


    While typing, I was just listening to Obama. The New America sounds very much like the old one to me. He likes to tell us he 'is humbled' by this or that, but either it doesn't last, or he is so arrogant the effect is negligible.

    Quite simply, he sounds like a lawyer doing his best to win, with the brief he has been handed (or, in his case - sought). I think global humanity comes a poor second with Barack Obama. It should not be confused with his personal associations. In the new world order, all nations are equal, but the one headed by BO is a lot more equal than any other. And he will tell you so, without even a blush.


  • Comment number 21.

    from mimpromptu
    I also twirled this afternoon to an amazing saxophonist Jerome who created his own hypnotic style with his trance-maker electro-sax.
    These particular pieces were recorded at a concert in Paris. Superb!

  • Comment number 22.

    from mimpromptu
    Saturday comes before Sunday, Streetphotobeing.
    I hope you enjoy them both
    I’ve finished this while dreaming,
    Keeping my dreams afloat.

    The time machine concept is useless
    In dealing with real success.
    Not able to reach the sublime
    Making its makers now whine.

    Unreachable is the sublime
    As it evolves with time,
    It’s constantly on the move.
    What are they trying to prove?

    Whatever they are up to
    Whatever their schemes corrupted.
    Enjoy your weekend, my friend.
    I’m sure that with time things will mend.

  • Comment number 23.

    mimpromptu (#21,#22) I really do think, in your own best interests, you'd probably be better off taking these mating rituals/calls (ditties) to a dateline website where you'd be more likely to find a suitable mate/kindred spirit. By all means, keep posting your views on world events here though, albeit, perhaps with less of the paranoia and self-reference?

  • Comment number 24.

    UN, SCO, GB, G7, G20, GEE WHIZZ

    Are we seeing a desperate attempt by the Liberal-Democracies to form a viable extra-UN alliance given that the post WWII 'UN' jig is now up and that the SCO and BRIC etc are becoming serious rivals to anarchistic hegemony?

  • Comment number 25.

    from mimpromptu
    Methinks that some NN bloggers & co have earned themselves an eternal place in the history of mankind as far as evil doers go. I can't possibly imagine what kind of excuse they'd be able to come up with now.

  • Comment number 26.


    "If you want to build the building, you can do that. If you want to lay the pipes, you can do that. Six months before you start processing itself ... then you need to inform the IAEA so it is prepared to begin its inspection programme," Ahmadinejad said.

    "Now is this the right thing or the wrong thing to do?" he asked. "It is not a secret facility. If it was, why did we inform the IAEA a year ahead of time?""

    Aljazeera Sept 26th

    It would help if the BBC, at least, provided more balanced coverage of what has been said and done. It doesn't help credibility either when both the Newsnight anchor and the UK Foreign Secretary are Jewish. I know this is difficult, and I think Maitlis, Esler, Sopel and Adler usually do a a fair job under difficult conditions, but to think that group affiliations shouldn't matter given the obvious animosity to Israel and her supporters at present (and not just in the Middle East) is extremely naive, I suggest. Whilst Katya Adler's piece on the rabbis in the IDF was excellent, and both Esler and Sopel are usually fair handed in my view (often more so than Paxman and Wark in fact), we need more even handendness over such sensitive issues as the IAEA, NPT and Israel, Iran, Pakistan, India etc.

    For example, why no coverage of the IAEA 'requests' for Israeli compliance?

  • Comment number 27.

    and one more from mimpromptu to streetphotobeing
    Thank you so much for supplying us with all the links to some of the most outstanding artists of mankind. By now I've managed to link to the Giza Pyramid Complex, Michaelangelo and Leonardo da Vinci and shall carry on with the research in the near future.

  • Comment number 28.

    mimpromptu (#25) "I can't possibly imagine what kind of excuse they'd be able to come up with now."

    Maybe if you looked into the evidence, did a bit more allocentric analysis etc, you'd find it all just a little bit easier?

    Sometimes people abuse terms a priori in order to butress their prejudices. It allows them to avoid seeing things differently, i.e from another's point of view.

  • Comment number 29.


    It occurs to me that mankind has always gone down into the dark to commit his most unpleasant acts. Does it not follow that the only treaty of true disclosure and cooperation, would be one concerning underground installations? First we need an acronym.

    Complete Revelation of Underground Developments - CRUD. Worldwide Machiavellian Disclosure - WMD. Open Bunkers And Manifest Artlessness - OBAMA. (work in progress)

    How comic the 'disgrace' of Iran for non-disclosure of secret projects, when America gave birth to, and deployed, the U2 spy-plane and the Stealth Bomber - in secrecy. I am in no doubt (as posted) that America is doing all sorts of nefarious R&D in their own underground hell-holes. Many of the G20 will be following suit. Let them ALL announce their locations and purposes - starting with Obama's New America - and then, only then, will his age of collaborative equality truly begin.

  • Comment number 30.


    Nothing to add to my title JJ. Does Obama read this Blog? Thanks.

  • Comment number 31.

    #31 from mimpromptu on parentage
    Thanks to Streetphotobeing I've learned something interesting regarding Leonardo da Vinci's parentage. Dad worked as a notary, mum was a peasant woman of, at least partly, Middle Eastern origins. Leonardo was born out of wedlock. His dad must have been an inspired kind of notary because having noticed Leo's talent for drawing, he made sure his son got the right kind of exposure to education and personal evolution. The result, as quoted from the Free Wikipedia:
    'Leonardo da Vinci is widely considered to be one of the greatest painters of all time and perhaps the most diversely talented person ever to have lived'. V!

  • Comment number 32.

    coming clean about nuclear.

    one would think from western media only one country was not 'coming clean' about wmd?

    to be just should sanctions not apply to all such countries not admitting to wmd?

    or is justice irrelevant? to be anti iran is not the same as being pro justice is it?

  • Comment number 33.

    #31 continuation of #31 from mimpromptu
    Oh, and Leonardo's dad must have helped his son to become a confident and strong kind of person, whatever his personal or sexual life, the details of which are not really well documented anyway. Suffice to say he did have a close female friend, Isabella d'Este, among all his other friends with whom he cooperated on numerous projects.

  • Comment number 34.

    the tory mp market fundamentalist overlooked that 'the city' is a net drain on the uk. so what does it matter if the losers that depend upon state aid for their 'industry' to work sod off elsewhere?

  • Comment number 35.

    I appreciated Danial Hannan's point that the EU used to be 29% of the world economy & is soon to be 15%. If that isn't proof of failure from which we should remove ourselves I don't know what could be.

    Beyond that the G20 diacussion was simply pointless since it started from the premise that G20 was actually something in the way of successfully ruling the world when the accuracy of that dubious assumption should have been what it was about.

  • Comment number 36.

    from mimpromptu
    The problem with 'the game' is that far too much importance is placed on artifical 'reflections' and that its 'rules' are largely based on mechanical principles, like names, looks, numbers, colours, etc., rather than on real or more profound ideas & associations.
    I am disappointed also that so few people have been prepared to admit to its taking place. There are a few exceptions but I shall not mention their names here. They know who they are themselves and for that I thank them from the bottom of my heart.
    I suspect that blackmail may have been used to silence many an individual or organisation.

  • Comment number 37.

    #37 continuation of #36
    Luckily, as the game unfolds, more & more people are coming forth. I don't think many of them could have possibly imagined the insidiousness of it all and evil behind it.

  • Comment number 38.

    from mimpromptu
    at #36 I wrote about the artificialty of 'the game' and people's reluctance to admit to it. One reason, I said, may have been blackmail. Another though, coming to think of it, may have been promises of great fortunes, etc

  • Comment number 39.

    #23 jaded_Jean

    "I really do think, in your own best interests, you'd probably be better off taking these mating rituals/calls (ditties) to a dateline website where you'd be more likely to find a suitable mate/kindred spirit."

    If anybody wants to post thats down to them and Newsnight.

    The reason that the far right National Socialist types want to keep ordinary posters away is that they will be drowned out in a large volume and their lies will be exposed and their numbers put into perspective.

    People that promote the idea of Holocaust "agnosticism" and the "Jewish Communist International" could well be better off seeking some other web site away from decent folk.

    As you revere Hitler and would lose democracy in favour of National Socialism I don't know why you don't get off and lecture the BNP on their website that "gets more hits than all of the other parties put together".

    They are not "a Nazi party" and therefore in your analysis must be anarchists and Troskyites full of "illusion/confusion".

    But as their "nationalist" supporters revere Hitler and also like National Socialism surely it would be an easy process to persuade them to become a Nazi party?

    Some people can have dyslexia and hear church bells and not find it makes them relate the story of three local murders that never happened as did the BNP London Assembly Member.

    Some people don't have adolescent beliefs in racial analysis that don't stand the scrutiny of science that shows there is very little difference between the races and that there is therefore no basis for race "realism" or eugenics or euthanasia and so on.

    They are made for you.

    Go to them - they are waiting for you!

  • Comment number 40.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 41.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 42.

    #39 gangofone: "People that promote the idea of Holocaust "agnosticism" and the "Jewish Communist International" could well be better off seeking some other web site away from decent folk."

    I like to think that I come into your second category of decent folk, despite some of your responses to my posts, and I do find some of your posts (excluding the cut-and-paste ones) to be quite thoughtful.

    In fact I would be genuinely interested in your views on the post #61 on 24th September by ecolizzy. I read it and found myself in accord with most of those who did comment; it is on a subject that concerns many people, as I have pointed out by quoting the BBC 'Have Your Say' posts which have the majority support.

    May we have the benefit of your views on the migrationwatch briefing paper? I haven't yet mastered the art of providing links, but you will find this important factual document at:-

    I should point out that it doesn't mention Hitler, or Jews, so may not be of interest to you, although there is a negative reference to BNP, which should get your attention. Go on, be a gofor just this once and comment on the published statistics.

  • Comment number 43.

    Bogus Speed Kills Lower Speed Limit Traffic Calming Quasi-Religious UK Road Safety Policy in Action, The Truth at Last ?

    " The Department for Transport has conceded that casualty figures from Police reports collected at the scene of an accident - know as Stats 19 have been drastically underestimated.

    Latest statistics show the Police recorded 230,000 injuries in Britains roads last year but information from other sources including figures provided by hospital accident and emergency departments puts the real numbers at between 680,000 and 920,000. The DfT now believes the most accurate figure is 800,000.

    The Governments road safety strategy has focused on the reduction of speed limits enforced with the worlds most extensive use of speed cameras and road calming. They have justified the use of these methods with a regular reported reduction in the number of people killed and seriously injured.

    According to recent government figures, they have met their long term target of reducing KSI's to 60 per cent of the annual average between 1994 to 1998. Government figures show 2,538 people were killed in 2008 with 26,034 reported as seriously injured.

    However, hospital figures show they have dealt with 40,000 serious injuries which is a reduction of just over 2 per cent.

    In recent years, Police figures (Stats 19) have shown a sharp reduction in KSI's but the same is not is true for hospital statistics which for much of the decade have risen, only showing a slight decline in the past two years. "

    Traffic pollution / carbon dioxide emissions up through the roof at the same time !

  • Comment number 44.

    for something to be art it must be of benefit. if there is no benefit other than to the fame or wallet of its inventor then its not an art but self aggrandisement.

    what can one think if someone says 'i have nothing to say really'.

    play for today

    if one want to see a play from those days [1979] that gets better as it goes on try

    Brylcream Boys

  • Comment number 45.

    #42 indignantindegene

    Three comments to add, did you see this reported anywhere in the media, apart from Migrationwatch?

    Because of the depression house building has collapsed here, not even private house build is happening. Migrationwatch state that in 4 to 5 years time all the 1.5 million recent immigrants qualify for social housing, and in what house would that be then?! There won't be any new houses for them.

    I know a woman who has lived in a social house with her family for some years. Recently some polish people moved in next door, the trouble is she has counted between 10 and 12 different people in the house! Why does this happen, what's happened to rent books, and accountability, and overcrowding to say the least?! Her other comment, not one of them has acknowledged her, she's tried saying hello, but is completely ignored, hhhmmm good cohesive country now aren't we?!

  • Comment number 46.

    Vis #43

    As for the alleged safety aspect, perhaps our roads would be far safer if the government encouraged regular free eyesight testing on supermarket car parks. It is probable that drivers with defective vision caused most of ( their own ) fatalities which led to the construction of fuel wasting roundabouts. I would not be surprised if the statistics show that most of the said fatalities were people over 50. Unfortunately you can't eye test dead people so its difficult to prove although the statistics show that up to 20% of drivers would fail the driving eyesight test.

    When questioned at a recent Chatburn Parish Council meeting a representative of Lancashire Constabulary stated that even given the evidence that 20% of drivers would fail the driving eye test, they do not routinely check the eyesight of drivers involved in accidents which they attend.

    I know for a fact that the roundabout on Pimlico Link Road adjacent to Clitheroe Hospital was introduced after two serious accidents in two weeks by the same then practically blind elderly driver from Chatburn. I know his grand-daughter very well. Obviously the police never checked his eyesight and perhaps an " official " eye test should be required of anyone involved in an accident or caught speeding on a fixed speed camera. I believe that people who fail the driving eye test are entitled to a free bus pass and perhaps this fact should be more widely publicized.

    Whilst briefly on the subject of bus passes, I suspect that accidents have gone down since they were introduced for the elderly. Hardly surprising that UK road deaths were down last year, but probably nothing to do with quasi-religious road safety measures like cutting speed limits.

    I have been campaigning for the introduction of annual eye tests for all drivers for several years now, it would be easy to organize simple and free eye tests at any local doctors health centre, just go around your birthday starting with the oldest drivers first. Full mandatory regular medical tests for older drivers as some suggest are totally over the top, it should be at the discretion of your own personal doctor.

    An almost 60 year old mate of mine was recently in conflict with his new doctor who attempted to portray that he was no longer fit to drive due to the medication he was taking. He's not really that well, takes loads of different pills for all sorts of conditions on top of his type1 diabetes, furthermore he was smashed up quite bad and never mended properly after a motor bike crash in the early 1980s, takes morphine for his constant pain. Anyway he had to go and take a medical driving test at Wigan, they took him in a taxi, the first thing he had to do was pass an eye sight test which was OK. He was told that many people fail and are immediately sent home, the next test was a reaction test on a driving simulator which assessed how long it took you to take your foot off the accelerator and press the brake pedal in emergency. He said there were a set of lights arranged around a screen and you had to brake when any of them came on. Even though he had taken all his " don't drive " pills his average reaction time after ten goes was 0.54 seconds, when we did all the vehicle motion calculations at college we used 0.7 seconds as an average reaction time so he passed it with flying colours. Then he had to go out on the road around Wigan, strange car strange town extremely difficult when under pressure, after an hour on the road his social worker told the examiner to terminate the test and drive back to the hospital himself. My mate got the result that he had passed about a week later, which is good because his hobby is a 1946 Rover car, he's not good on his legs and needs his car to go shopping down the village where he lives, he also enjoys driving around the local roads in his Rover.

    The current eco-fascist nee safety fascist approach to transport and our environment is just an excuse to facilitate a massive investment scam on the taxpayer, the whole current quasi-religious UK road safety fascist " speed kills " approach is based on indoctrinated emotions anyway.

    Sheep on the unfenced moor tops are not alarmed when passed within six feet by traffic travelling at over 50 Mph. In spring their lambs soon learn not to loiter in the road, but are prone to run to mum across any oncoming traffic when very young. Why are humans so afraid of speeding traffic, yet walk around our streets using MP3 players to render themselves deaf to any danger, talking on mobile phones. Perhaps the average hill sheep is more fundamentally intelligent than the average ten bob fat cat human ?

  • Comment number 47.

    from mimpromptu
    Streetphotobeing, tomorrow’s Sunday,
    Hoping for you it is a fun day,
    Whether at home or on the phone
    With those you love and close to you,
    Though with today not quite yet gone,
    Whatever you’re up to, I’m thinking of you.

  • Comment number 48.

    from mimpromptu
    I have now browsed through all your links
    And there is a difference, isn't there, methinks,
    Between throwing some paint around, especially red,
    And what the Ancients masterfully bred
    For us, so long after they've gone, to admire,
    And share with friends over the wire.

  • Comment number 49.

    I expect Monday evening will reveal that NN will be featuring current issues, such as the opening speeches from the Labour Party Conference; more on the Scotland v ex-Housekeeper’s account of what documents were or were not seen (or photocopied); and another pointscoring ‘discussion’ can probably be expected on whether ‘Labour leadership has lost the will to live’ and whether the un-elected Lord Meddlesom will be jockeying for even higher position, or would really ‘work for the Tories’ as stated.

    For the past week we have spent hours being informed of events over which we, the GBP, have very little influence, such as global warming, the international financial crisis, and whether Brown was deliberately snubbed by President Obama, etc., etc. Meanwhile the major issue that continues to adversely affect our society is quietly (deliberately) ignored.

    Can Newsnight please set aside an hour to analyse and debate the very important briefing paper on Social Housing from Migrationwatch, which contains official statistics that dare not be ignored, yet go unmentioned by all the major political parties and broadcasters, e.g.:-

    “Of the nearly 10 million extra population, 70% will be due to immigration and over 90% will be in England. This 70% is equivalent to roughly seven times the population of Birmingham.”

    Let’s have less on global warming, more on global swarming; less on our ‘special’ relationship with US, more on the absence of any relationship between party squabbles and the real issues that are damaging our English society.

    Coverage of the English Democrats Party conference could be a first step in the right direction, but not Extreme Right, as (like the Scottish National Party) they are not racist, but don’t intend to treat the indigenous population as third-class citizens and ignorant fools.

  • Comment number 50.

    Here's a rework of #40 (late I know but I have a life to get on with as well as visit this blog).

    Dear Mr Thegangofone, (Or may I call you Go1?)

    I was a little worried that you were late with your postings today. I do hope there were no problems for you in getting on line.

    I wonder if you would be kind enough to elucidate your para "Some people can have dyslexia and hear church bells and not find it makes them relate the story of three local murders that never happened as did the BNP London Assembly Member. as I found it a little difficult to understand exactly what your point was. (As for myself, I always have a copy of Michael Dummett's 'Grammar and Style' close to hand which I find invaluable in everyday writing. I recommend it to you.)

    Also I would be most grateful if you would let me know your source for your statement, "Some people don't have adolescent beliefs in racial analysis that don't stand the scrutiny of science that shows there is very little difference between the races and that there is therefore no basis for race "realism" or eugenics or euthanasia and so on." I would be most interested to read it.

    I look forward to reading your contribution on Tuesday.

    Thank you for your kind attention.

  • Comment number 51.

    I investigated the EDP site as I have only just become aware of its existence through the Donacaster news coverage. I browsed various pages and then decided to see what the Forum was saying; - it said, in red on a black screen, 'Hacked by Abu-Slman', please verify asap.

  • Comment number 52.

    IoS: 'The right-wing group's [BNP] merchandise website, is selling items emblazoned with images of St George, William Wallace and Owain Glyndwr together with slogans such as "British by birth, Welsh by the grace of God". The BNP claims the idea is to draw on Scottish, Welsh and English history to "introduce the idea of nationalism to a total stranger". But the merchandise has caused bitter consternation across the UK.'

    As I have said before enough people are already angry about the BNP, through the use of Churchill and Spitfire icons on their Euro literature to surely make it worthwhile to have a "democracy day" prior to elections where all of the democratic political parties, unions, scientists and historians combine to celebrate all that is good about British democracy and condemn the lies of the BNP.

    The lies are in the form of sensationalist stories such as the BNP London Assembly Member who due to dyslexia and church bells revealed three local murders that had never happened.

    Other lies are over the "science" behind their racial views and of course the inevitable Holocaust "agnosticism".

    They can only prosper where their blatant and adolescent lies survive unchallenged and fear predominates.

  • Comment number 53.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 54.

    The huge majority of the British public voted for democratic parties at the last general election and very few for non-democratic forces.

    There clearly are justifiable reasons for being concerned about levels of recent immigration.

    But this is nothing to do with the race of the immigrants and most normal people don't walk around talking about "indigenous" people.

    Thats probably why neither the media nor the serious political parties use that phrase - it could be taken to imply the kind of racial prejudice that belongs in the past.

  • Comment number 55.

    #53 Go1

    Still no source then? ;-)

    By the way, 'Dummett's' is not a dictionary as you would probably know had you actually achieved the two Masters you claim. It is a 'quick guide' to grammar and style especially written to assist students when taking their exams.

    'The Incredible Human Journey' was nothing more than a popularist 'science' TV programme cobbled together to achieve audience ratings. It seems to have fooled you amongst many others.

  • Comment number 56.


    NewFazer (#55) BBC2 has just finished its 'harrowing' trilogy 'The Last Nazis' I challenge any rational person to watch the last part without reeling at the obvious spin/propaganda/emotional manipulation. Watch the credits for a clue as to what really drives all this diabolical nonsense.

    BBC - you should be ashamed of yourselves, especialy given the timing over Iran, Israel and the UN/IAEA etc.

  • Comment number 57.

    tawse57 (#12) Excellent!

  • Comment number 58.

    Ha,ha, I found this very amusing! Says it all really about the mess this countries in! : (

  • Comment number 59.

    from mimpromptu
    I realise it may well be a coincidence but Gordon Brown, despite all that I have been saying, seems to be imitating me by either using bits from my ditties or colours that I wear or that are displayed on my table. Yesterday his tie was the colour of a card on my table and this afternoon the colour of the scarf that I was wearing. I do not find it flattering this kind of behaviour. When on the programme with Andrew Marr this morning he kept emphasising how people should take responsibility for their behavioural actions. Well, he should start with himself first of all.
    Another person who was using a purple tie today was the President of Poland.

  • Comment number 60.


    "Every little (breach) helps?"

  • Comment number 61.

    from mimpromptu
    Today on ice I danced to Zadok the Priest,
    Which often feels like a wonderful feast,
    Rule Britannia and Parry’s Jerusalem,
    By which I often feel overwhelmed.

    After a break in wonderful sunshine
    I followed then with spending my time
    Skating to Edith who knew how to sing
    About passion and love before leaving Queen’s Rink.

    I danced to ‘Padam’ and ‘La Vie en Rose’
    Throughout assuming a stretched out kind of pose.
    The Poetry Society was my next port of call
    Where we stitched a poem, nice people them all.

  • Comment number 62.

    from mimpromptu
    Madam Mim is curious to know what or who exactly Mandy is planning on fine tuning? Any guesses, Bloggers?

  • Comment number 63.

    #62 continuation from mimpromptu
    Madam Mim once used fifty two - ft - fine tuninng having in mind the Coronation year of Queen Elizabeth II. It's nothing to do with anybody's birthday. It's much bigger and much profound than that.

  • Comment number 64.

    from mimpromptu
    And what's exactly 'innovative' about Gordon Brown? The Beatles perhaps?

  • Comment number 65.

    from mimpromptu with probably the final comment of this morning:

    Streetphotobeing, with Jeremy in Brighton
    And Kirsty in London
    I’m curious to see what the day will bring.
    Gordon is planning innovative to be
    While Mandy’s preparing to fine tune, I see.

    Will they look happy or rather morose
    Those on the platform and those on the floor?
    Is truth on the agenda or from Gordon’s more
    Of the same ‘world savioury’ pose?

  • Comment number 66.

    Multi-culturism is good for you

  • Comment number 67.

    #66 ecolizzy
    what do killers, be they British/British, British/foreign or foreign, have anything to do with normal people going about their lives, whatever their status and wherever they come from?
    What are you trying to prove?

  • Comment number 68.

    mimpromptu (#59) "I realise it may well be a coincidence but.."

    Life is full of coincidences of events and our behaviours. It takes some time for most of us to have our omnipotence and magical thinking knocked out of us by life itself. These hurdles begin in the first couple of years of life cropping up again in adolescence, and then against in early adulthood. In fact, it's a life-long struggle. Some fail at the first hurdle.

    Take advice graciously when it's offered pro bono publico.

  • Comment number 69.


    "Smoking Kills"

    "Alcoholic Poisoning"

    'Kits' openly on sale on a high-stret where you are.

  • Comment number 70.

    mimpromptu (#67) Elsewhere you make clearly very odd, irrelevant and false connections, and yet when the BBC reports a real one, and a sensible person draws it to bloggers' attention, you criticise the person reporting an article published by the BBC.

    Does this make you think a little about your behaviour? Do you not see some similarities to the behaviour of streetphotobeing and thegangofone? What word is best used to describe such behaviour? It is just a class of cognitive behaviour note. We are all a little prone to it at times. The problem is when it becomes very frequent at the expense of healthy self-criticism, i.e reality error checking, perhaps?

  • Comment number 71.

    barrie (#69) Dig out 'Exile and Return' by Martin Gilbert. An eye opener if read critically...and sympathetically (i.e. is there a cognitive blind-spot (scotoma) which makes some more oblivious to the outcome of their behaviours/actions and their consequences?)...

  • Comment number 72.

    #54 Go1 "There clearly are justifiable reasons for being concerned about levels of recent immigration. But this is nothing to do with the race of the immigrants and most normal people don't walk around talking about "indigenous" people"

    I'm delighted to see that we are getting nearer in the views we express, as I am sure we are both sincere in our beliefs.

    I have long stated that race is not the issue with me, as evidenced in the background supplied. The main factor responsible for most of the aggro driving extreme views is the lack of concern shown by the main political parties at (i) the obvious overcrowding of this country, and (ii) the conflicts arising from significant clashes in cultures, values and beliefs.

    You appear to concede the concern at levels of immigration, and rightly so given the official facts published by Migrationwatch. But concern is not enough as the main political parties fail to take immediate and effective action to halt the invasion:-

    Net immigration has quadrupled since 1997 to 237,000 a year.
    A migrant now arrives nearly every minute.
    We must build a new home every six minutes for new migrants.
    England is already the most crowded country in Europe (except Malta)
    Immigration will add 7 million to the population of England in the next 20 years - that is 7 times the population of Birmingham.
    To keep the population of the UK below 70 million, immigration must be reduced by 75%. Government measures so far may reduce it by 5%.

    On the second issue, that of cultural clashes, the puny but expensive measures taken to placate alien culture groups can not succeed in the futile and failed attempts to achieve 'integration'. Whilst we as a nation are dropping our beliefs in fantasy and the supernatural, we allow and encourage settlement by immigrants who would have our country ruled by sharia law and according to medieval dogma. They will not adjust to our values, and there are many indigenous citizens who do not intend to see our heritage overwhelmed and overthrown.

    None of the major political parties rank these issues high on their agendas, as evidenced by their manifestos and conference agendas, and the huge costs of dealing with offenders continues, instead of calling an immediate halt to immigration:-

    "Last year we removed 5,400 foreign national prisoners, and more than 66,000 people were removed or returned home voluntarily" UK Border Agency

    Two years ago we were informed that the 'record of departure' would be restored in order to ensure that foreign students and other temporary entrants left at the end of the period stated on their visas. Clearly this is not being done as evidenced by the Scotland v ex-housekeeper case, and that of the Pakistani 'students' who were arrested last year, but are still here.

    The main political parties by their complete indifference to the above problems are responsible for the rise of the extreme right and the resulting strife. You and many others may continue to show your extreme tolerance, maybe you have a vested interest like many of them, but I will continue to defend my heritage and use the term 'indigenous' to identify my culture.

  • Comment number 73.

    #69 from mimpromptu
    Mr Singleton
    As it should be evident, smoking neither has killed me yet /one never knows, it may do once I'm over 100 years old/ nor is it impinging me in any way to skate with the fitness of a teenager /if not better/. I've also had a period of rather heavy drinking /for only a while, though, straight after leaving SSEES/ with my family pulling together to help, successfully, I'd like to add. Well, the drinking doesn't seem to have done much damage to my brain & mind either. Otherwise I shouldn't think I'd be coming up with ditties one after another, would I? Nor would have I been able to write my extended essay on the wisdom of relativistic perception, would I?

  • Comment number 74.

    #72 from mimpromptu

    Nothing wrong with that, indignantgene, well put.
    And that's from somebody who came to this country in 1978 at the age of 24. It would be silly to pretend that the immigration problem is not a big & worrying issue.

  • Comment number 75.

    #69 from mimpromptu
    Mr Singleton
    How about 'UK torture is also legal - assisted by government'?

  • Comment number 76.

    Mimpromptu #73

    "As it should be evident, smoking neither has killed me yet"
    I suggest you do some research on emphysema before you make any further foolish remarks such as that. Smoking is deadly, end of story.

    "doesn't seem to have done much damage to my brain & mind either"
    That rather depends on your viewpoint. Reading some of your previous remarks, which show an alarming level of paranoia, I think you should follow JJ's advice and look for some assistance. Seriously.

  • Comment number 77.

    #76 What paranoia, 'newfazer = jj'?
    Would I be cycling across London streets, if it was true?
    Would I be prepared to sit unprotected at the tables opposite the Queen's Ice Rink, if it was true?
    Would I be prepared to challenge Gordon Brown and Mandy in an open forum, it it was true?
    One never knows, they may send nasty dogs to tear me apart or they may send a policeman to arrest me, after all, they're claiming to be in charge. The problem with the policemen is that most of them have been rather nice with me so I shouldn't think they're waiting round to corner to grab me. I thought some of them, recently, have given me a lovely nod or two. Well, at least that's what I thought but then perhaps I've been imagining things.
    There are you are, you have an answer from me. Are you feeling happy and important now?

  • Comment number 78.

    to thegangofone from mimpromptu
    I 'enjoyed' reading about what you had to say about jj's rectal thinking the other day. Well, it's true, isn't it?

  • Comment number 79.

    Mimpromptu #77

    Do you smoke when children are present? How do you feel about that?

  • Comment number 80.

    'Mr Darling said the party had a lot to "be proud" of its handling of what he said was "an unprecedented" economic crisis.'

    So the Labour Party really don't accept any responsibility for the fact that regulation failed to see the imminence and scale of the economic crisis and the fact that the banks were being run by people like Fed the Shred with little knowledge of the banking system.

    What is an appropriate size for a bonus and is it static or does it reflect market conditions?

    Attention should be on the regulatory constraints that mean a future government does have a big picture of what is, or is not, likely to take down the whole global economy.

  • Comment number 81.

    #77 mimpromptu

    Good for you.

    Remember that the far right don't seem to have regular emotions so they will mechanically engineer a confrontation to try and deter or inhibit people from challenging their propaganda.

    Don't get sucked in by their insults - when its coming from people who are "agnostic" on the Holocaust or who believe only "anarchists and Trotskyites" would "paint Hitler as darkly as possible for party political reasons" its pretty much a badge of honour.

  • Comment number 82.

    #72 indignantindegene

    "You and many others may continue to show your extreme tolerance, maybe you have a vested interest like many of them, but I will continue to defend my heritage and use the term 'indigenous' to identify my culture."

    The extreme tolerance I show is because we do live in a multi-cultural society and most people actually vote for the parties that do support that stance so I am typical.

    I do agree with many of the views of Migrationwatch though my perspective is more from the point of view of long term sustainability.

    But if you do seek to persuade then the company you keep can be seen to be significant.

    You will use whatever terms you see fit.

    My point is though that "indigenous" is also a word used by the extreme right and reflect their racial attitudes. You also seem quite comfortable sharing your views with Jaded_Jean who is "agnostic" on the Holocaust and is into race "realism", eugenics and so on. Hitler was a "peace lover" in that posters world.

    So with the BNP having tried to get respectability via UKIP the English Democratic Party should keep their eyes peeled.

    The English Defence League is known to have BNP types in its ranks and throwbacks to the far right football hooligan era.

    They will almost certainly share your use of the word "indigenous".

  • Comment number 83.

    #76 newfazer

    "Reading some of your previous remarks, which show an alarming level of paranoia, I think you should follow JJ's advice and look for some assistance. Seriously."

    Well when those that promote Holocaust "agnosticism", race "realism" and eugenics proponents start offering advice they are surely deemed to be benign and well balanced people. Hmm not.

  • Comment number 84.

    #55 newfazer

    "'The Incredible Human Journey' was nothing more than a popularist 'science' TV programme cobbled together to achieve audience ratings. It seems to have fooled you amongst many others."

    Actually the programme was mainstream but was based on the major and serious global analysis of DNA.

    Your utter ignorance of that is conceivable given your intellectual disposition.

    What is your evidence that the BBC tried to "fool" anybody?

    Which academic bodies support the notions of race "realism" and eugenics?

    You always bluster about science but when the challenge comes in you say it is "populist" - that does not make it wrong or bad science.

    You actually have to be specific about why it is wrong.

  • Comment number 85.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 86.

    #72 jaded_Jean

    "BBC2 has just finished its 'harrowing' trilogy 'The Last Nazis' I challenge any rational person to watch the last part without reeling at the obvious spin/propaganda/emotional manipulation. Watch the credits for a clue as to what really drives all this diabolical nonsense."

    Why not try to be specific and say what was the spin and how emotional manipulation was used or how the propaganda varied from reality? If you are trying to imply the alleged "Jewish Communist International" with regard to the credits I assume you mean a persons political views are fixed by their race.

    I would hope most of the readers won't reel back in horror when I reveal that actually the Nazis were evil, murdering bastards driven by racial dogmas that are unscientific.

    Hitler was not a "peace lover" and the Holocaust did happen as was established at Nuremburg and evidenced by extensive Nazi documentation including the Heidrich "Final Solution" papers.

  • Comment number 87.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 88.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 89.


    thegangofone (#80) "So the Labour Party really don't accept any responsibility for the fact that regulation failed to see the imminence and scale of the economic crisis and the fact that the banks were being run by people like Fed the Shred with little knowledge of the banking system."

    This is the New Labour Party. It is not the Old Labour Party. The New Left Labour Party had as much in common with Old Labour as Trotsky did with Stalin. It's called entryism.

  • Comment number 90.

    thegangofone (#86) "Why not try to be specific and say what was the spin and how emotional manipulation was used"

    Is the answer because this is an educated/educable person's forum?

    When you were at school, did you demand that the teachers speeled everything out for you and always gave you the answers? (i.e did your work for you?).....

  • Comment number 91.

    #82 Gof1
    "The extreme tolerance I show is because we do live in a multi-cultural society and most people actually vote for the parties that do support that stance so I am typical".

    I beg to differ:
    Anything 'extreme' is questionable, including tolerance - which becomes apathy, lethargy and complacency;
    the 'indigenous' people have had the failed social engineering experiment of multi-culturalism inflicted on them, without any democratic vote; and
    the reasons that most people vote for the major parties are obvious:
    (i)that many have themselves benefited from immigration - read again the statistics at #72 and those showing how many migrants got the 'newly-created' jobs, and the social housing 'through greater need;
    (ii)others may be more interested in the commercial opportunities provided by mass immigration than in 'their' country; and
    (iii) until recently there were no political parties that showed any interest in the public's concerns about mass immigration.

    Your claim to being 'typical' is merely an admission that you fit one those categories above. I'm glad to state that I am one of a growing number of previous non-voters who may now have the chance to vote for some restoration and rebalancing in favour of indigenous citizens.

    I refer to myself as 'indigenous' with some pride in my heritage, irrespective of any organisation or people that you mentioned.

  • Comment number 92.

    from mimpromptu
    Alan Simpson spoke out
    He is getting a tick
    Madam Mim is so happy
    She could eat a whole fig.

    While cycling around Wandsworth
    Looking over my shoulder
    A headline caught my attention
    Which I quote herewith & henceforth.

    And something about bunking
    The whole thing is unfolding
    The whole scum so corroding.

    Whether Labour, LibDem, Tory or SNP
    Let’s hope the dead men soon go
    Thus leaving us free
    To move forward once rid of the foe.

    Although the rhythm & rhyme of the above stanzas could be improved, I'm posting them now for quick consideration

  • Comment number 93.


    I see the fairies at the bottom of the blog have teamed up with the trolls and are directing subliminal death-ditties at the few functioning synapses left to the cerebral. "Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make Newsnight bloggers."

    I have only ever matched the surreal quality of this forum in my most bizarre dreams. Is it possible Lewis Carroll was a time traveller? Is he posting here RIGHT NOW. Which one is it Mim? You have use of The Force.

  • Comment number 94.

    Jaded_Jean and Newfazer have in the past argued for a position of "agnosticism" on the Holocaust.

    Is it permitted to still say that?

  • Comment number 95.

    Jaded_Jean has in the past argued that Hitler was a "peace lover" and had many good policies.

    Is it permitted to still say that?

  • Comment number 96.

    Jaded_Jean and Newfazer have in the past argued that National Socialism has a lot to offer in preference to democracy.

    Is it permitted to still say that?

  • Comment number 97.

    #90 jaded_Jean

    "Is the answer because this is an educated/educable person's forum? "

    No the point is that if you people promote yourselves as high intellects then you would be aware that most people tend to make an argument and then substantiate it.

    You don't need people to be "educated/educable" - you need them to not realise that there is no substance and hence you can't offer it.

  • Comment number 98.

    I have to agree with indignantindegene, I'm proud of being an indigenous english person. And it's not the word immigration that worries me so much, as the word mass. We have always been an open society, but now it is doing us an enormous amount of harm. I can't think where all this benefit comes from that politicians speak of! We have thousands of newly qualified british nurses who can't find work, but still some hospital groups are recruiting from overseas, why?! Surely the nurses are paid on a wage scale and so foreign and british nurses get paid the same!

    And what I never see on any post that's pro immigration, is how many people they propose letting in here. I do see them screaming that there's plenty of land to build on, trouble is these same people know little about geography, this country has many places it's impossible to build on. Do the pro immigration people think we can allow everyone in here? They never stipulate a figure that they think will be too many. We increased by 408,000 thousand last year, why?! When our unemployment figure must now be in the 5 million mark! And the oft quoted figure of our population being 61 million must be an out and out lie, with all the immigration we've had in the last five years, it must be nearer 65. And now we'll never know, who's going to admit on a census form to living in Britain when you're illegal.

    The only good thing I've noticed lately is even the guardianistas are beginning to say, no more people, now I do find that a hopeful sign.

  • Comment number 99.

    Now why doesn't this surprise me!

  • Comment number 100.

    Oh, Barrie
    You should know by now that Madam Mim does not identify with no-one. She may be keen on sharing with like-minded people /well, in fact, she loves it/ but she is neither Alice nor a wondrous chalice.


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