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Wednesday 22 July 2009

Verity Murphy | 17:36 UK time, Wednesday, 22 July 2009

Here is what is coming up in tonight's show:

From Gavin Essler:

"Dealing with this pandemic is a marathon, not a sprint" - Sir Liam Donaldson, Chief Medical Officer for England, on swine flu.

Does the old-fashioned family doctor have a future? As we brace ourselves for what could be the worst flu outbreak of our lifetime, swine flu, Newsnight has uncovered evidence that raises a number of important questions over the future of GPs who work on their own. They are six times more likely to be subjected to disciplinary hearings than GPs working in group practices. That's according to GMC figures. We'll explain in the programme.

Usury is a sin. The old biblical injunction about money lending underpinned some of today's protests in Britain and the United States against those lending money at very high interest rates. So what is the morality of the money lenders? We'll debate.

Plus we have a report on the Pirate Party of Sweden who say they're taking the first stand in a new fight for civil rights in the 21st Century. They want reform of copyright and wiretapping law. They already have an MEP and have ambitions way beyond Scandinavia.

All in Newsnight at 10.30pm. Gavin

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    Labour also wants the Glasgow North East byelection to be 'a marathon and not a sprint' as well it seems .. are you not going to cover this
    story because it involves whisky jobs in Port Dundas and in Kilmarnock
    (Thirsty Work's home town!) and the BBC bosses are worried about bias -
    or are you all angostura bitter drinkers down there in Shepherd's Bush?

    This is how The Herald handled the story this morning if this helps you:

    "In the Commons, SNP whip Stewart Hosie accused Labour of running scared from Glasgow voters while allowing tomorrow's Norwich North by-election to go ahead after just 48 days.

    Labour had every opportunity to move the writ for Glasgow North East, he said, and were hiding behind the excuse that if they did so the by-election would take place during the summer holidays.

    "The long and short of it is that Labour has put party first and people second," said Mr Hosie. "The people of Glasgow North East need a full-time MP now. We've got a series of brutal school closures with little or no consultation with parents; we've got workers at the Diageo plant at Port Dundas fearing for their jobs and they have no full-time MP to represent them."

    Labour was caught on the hop and only the swift objection of Chief Whip Nick Brown ensured a vote. Harriet Harman, the leader of the House, said custom and practice was that the writ was moved by the party for whom the Speaker was last elected.

    This was disputed by the veteran Tory parliamentarian Sir Patrick Cormack. He said Mr Martin had stood twice as Speaker seeking re-election, and was therefore an independent. "It will be the shabby end of a fairly shoddy period in parliament's life if we rise today and refuse to let you, Mr Speaker, move that writ," said Sir Patrick."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8162263.stm
    "Celebrities Back Whisky Workers"

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8162698.stm
    "Diageo to 'listen' to jobs plan" - after today's meeting with
    Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond



  • Comment number 2.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 3.

    We've had group practices in Scotland for as long as I can remember and that is more than fifty years ........ so where are all these so-called
    'old-fashioned family doctors' working on their own? In Harley Street?!

    Even the fictitious and occasionally flirtatious Dr Finlay had both a housekeeper - Janet - and a senior partner Dr Cameron to keep an eye
    on his activities in Tannochbrae as well as Dr Snoddie their Medical
    Officer of Health who would have been very busy then with swine flu?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Finlay

    Still: we look forward to hearing this report .... and a few old clips
    from Tannochbrae would also be appreciated! Even though we've moved on.

    This is the website of a typical and well-run practice here in Dundee:
    http://www.westgatemedicalpractice.co.uk/booklet.asp?tid=8 Note their
    practice twinning link with Malawi and the close integration with the
    community-based team of nurses, nutritionists - and other specialists.



  • Comment number 4.

    Have just seen the headline about Malloch-Brown's recantation .... will he be clearing his desk immediately .... or is he being sent on a final
    farewell tour of development projects in Helmand without a flak jacket?

  • Comment number 5.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 6.

    Hi,
    I'm reading a book about JP Morgan at the moment, and guess who his ancestor was!
    The problem I have with Pirates, and many who espouse causes that help the masses is that given half a chance many turn into fat cat capitalists,
    why is this I wonder?
    best wishes

  • Comment number 7.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 8.

    Just saw the piece about usury, and nearly fell off my chair!!!

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2550156453790090544

    "there is substantial evidence of intense criticism (of usury) by various traditions, institutions and social reformers on moral, ethical, religious and legal grounds.The rationale employed by these wide-ranging critics have included arguments about work ethic, social justice, economic instability, ecological destruction and inter-generational equity."
    http://www.che.ac.uk/publications/usury.htm

    Given that there are bubbling issues of social justice, economic instability, ecological destruction and inter-generational equity let's hope that NN treats this with appropriate reverance and this is not a kangaroo court designed to make out the critics of usury are "monetary cranks" or barbaric Islamists.

    Poor Soddy!

  • Comment number 9.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 10.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 11.

    Don't worry all will be fine with the 'flu pandemic marathon, the government have it all in hand to inform us ; )

    http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/115512

  • Comment number 12.

    Malloch Brown is a revisionist, about an hour later !

  • Comment number 13.

    Jings, crivvens and help ma boab; this blog is steadily becoming the haunt of the "here's tae us" brigade, refugees from the portly scottish chap's blog which is currently closed.

    It's sad that what once was a nation with an internationalist mindset is ever increasingly turning inward under the influence of a populist nationalist executive.

    Even a paper such as the Herald, once a standard bearer of internationalism, is reduced to parochial perspectives in its desperate circulation drive; "If there's no Scottish angle, there's no news."

    Below the fold front page news on Saturday, I think, was the statement from an officer of the Kings Own Scottish Borderers that - guess what- there are insufficient British helicopters deployed in Helmand.

    When Dundee - home of the Happy Hillocks - is served up as an exemplar of GP services, well - time to head for the western hills of Crete for some civilized raki and backgammon.

  • Comment number 14.

    Hi,
    perhaps there is a story behind Malloch Browns change of heart?
    Excalibur?

    best wishes

  • Comment number 15.

    #13 kashibeyaz

    BT's blog is still running.

    "It's sad that what once was a nation with an internationalist mindset is ever increasingly turning inward under the influence of a populist nationalist executive."

    I trust that you can see the intrinsic contradiction in your comment.

  • Comment number 16.

    kashibeyaz (#13) "It's sad that what once was a nation with an internationalist mindset is ever increasingly turning inward under the influence of a populist nationalist executive."

    Scotland, like the rest of the UK, embraced internationalism in that it extended civilization (including sound banking) where there was uncivilized behaviour before.

    Look what we got back in return.

  • Comment number 17.

    #16 JadedJean

    "it extended civilization (including sound banking)where there was uncivilized behaviour before."

    That's a very harsh judgment on London!!

  • Comment number 18.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 19.

    # 8 Hawkeye

    My full appreciation of the link to the video, which I have just watched in entirety and can fully recommend.

    I did look at the article link, as it was from a human ecology perspective, I would be already familiar with the terms of reference, so did not consider the need to pursue it. Though if it is an article of similar quality to others you have linked to, I recall for example complex systems and black box analysis, I am sure it will prove enlightening for those, for who ecological analysis of socio-economic systems is a new area to explore.

    With respect to the film you have directed us towards. May I also recommend the link contained within this post from yesterday.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/fromthewebteam/2009/07/tuesday_21_july_2009.html

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 20.

    #15; don't trust Greeks when it comes to intrinsic contradiction spotting; read Aristophanes rather than Rabbie.

  • Comment number 21.

    MAGNA CARTA AND BLOGDOG

    Speaking of #10, see another 10 (and 11). ;-)

    This is quite a good read too.

  • Comment number 22.

    Nos6

    JP Morgan's uncle composed *Jingle Bells* I once envisaged a film scene
    with that being played to slow mo Sam Peckinpah shots of American Civil War soldiers getting their hands blown off by the defective rifles he supplied to the army.

  • Comment number 23.

    #21 JJ

    Yet another Human Ecology source. You dark horse.

  • Comment number 24.

    Why does Newsnight continually include features which have no relevance in Scotland? Do the editors not know that Health, Education and many other state institutions have been devolved? Or do they just not care?

  • Comment number 25.

    Hi Streephotobeing

    Interesting post, as I read the book on JP Morgan and his sort I think, where are they now?

    By the way after the Senate hearings into some of his acitivities, he is reported to have said that 'one day all banks will have glass pockets'
    long time in coming me thinks
    best wishes

  • Comment number 26.

    Hi, question for Newsnight

    when your Science Editor said that Newsnight 'had learned' that a disproportinate number of GPs working alone were appearing before the BMA discplinary board, I'm intrigued to know what your source is.
    You will forgive when for the thought that comes into my mind when later in your report you mention the efforts of some to get rid of GPs working alone.
    best wishes,

  • Comment number 27.

    Well we all know the BBC was pro the anti usury lot then! Letting their rep talk all over the other side's man.
    Why would the BBC run as a reason to be anti usury the prattlings of some ancient fairy tale books? Clearly they take the meaning to be any interest at all!
    I was staggered by the greed and arrogance of the anti usury spokesman, he seemed to imply the less well off should be allowed to borrow more money and pay little for it and also not to have to pay it back! The truth is, don't borrow, go without! Unknown common sense in this age! Interest is due, it is simple payment for hiring the use of someone else's money. The only problem at all with the system is the money owners, savers, never get enough return, everything is weighted towards the borrowers and the banker's cut.
    The Pirate party are absolutely right on the file sharing issue. All file sharing for personal use must be permitted. Also government has no place spying on any internet activity without a court order, having shown good reason to a judge of a potential criminal offence. Precious few disagree but the political class, who never represent the people, only themselves.

  • Comment number 28.

    Paul Mason's piece on Usury and the London Citizens campaign might helpfully have included the information that both Adam Smith and Keynes supported the usury laws, and Keynes regarded the contributions of mediaeval theologians as valuable pieces of economic analysis. The relevant references can be seen at: http://www.thinkingfaith.org/articles/20090209_1.htm

  • Comment number 29.

    Your report on single handed GPs was either not well researched or did not want to stir up a stimulating debate.The reason why so many single handed face hearings is because so many of them are foreign medical graduates. It should not be beyond your capacity to get the full breakdown of pecentage of foreign GPs in each group the relevant percentage of GPs who face GMC hearings. GMC as a body is Racist but more importantly the process involved before the case comes for hearing is Racist.
    Regarding the service provided by the single handed GPs is appreciated by many more patients than that provided by the big Mafia practices despite all the extra resources these big practices get. We single handed GPs are allegedl isolated. I trained in a five Doctor(white) practice. The only time the paterners talked to each other was at the monthly practice meeting.
    My patients are getting better service than my bigger counterprts on the whole as at least I am responsible for their total care. What I can not provide myself, I make sure that I arrange that service from them.An audit of the patients who want to stay with their single handed GP when they move out of the area or those patients who changed practice because they moved to a different City/Town for educational/job purposes would come back to the old practice when they move back would be quite revealing.It is not unknown that people wait for weeks to go to their restaurant of choice. How many of them would prefer a McDonalds over their small restaurant where they not only get good food but friendly and personalsed service? I rest my case.

  • Comment number 30.

    The British use of this word 'poly-clinic' to mean 'an integrated group practice of doctors, nurses and dentists?' seems different from what
    the Dutch describe as 'poly-clinics' which I seem to remember were in
    fact referral facilities where diagnostic tests were carried out in a
    range of different bays arranged round a fairly plush "airport-style"
    atrium and where you could also get lunch and then go and get results.

    The one I was referred to (by my wonderful Chinese physician in The
    Hague) was in the 'Academisch Medisch Centrum' in Amsterdam which is
    also a major hospital ...... but the diagnostics in-patient area was
    known as the 'polyclinic'. Obama is apparently studying the Dutch
    health-care system so there may be scope for a Newsnight follow up?

    Their system is insurance-based.

  • Comment number 31.

    As for Scotland and 'sound banking': well a couple of historical facts to bear in mind before rushing to judgement is that not only did we export John Law to France http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Law_%28economist%29 but we also allowed RBS to merge with NatWest and The
    Bank of Scotland to merge with Halifax ....... Capitalism sucks?!

  • Comment number 32.

    #13 the Western Hills of Crete ..... civilised raki, backgammon ... and as I pointed out when someone loaded a blue and white striped box of feta cheese on the bus to Rethymnon 'Produce of The Scottish Milk Marketing Board in Paisley'?! "Canst thou tutor the crab to advance straight forward? thou canst not!" (from: Aristophanes 'The Peace')

  • Comment number 33.

    As some of the bloggers have been so preoccupied with not only dreams but also with some personalities who are no longer amongst us, please may I add another dittie to the kitty?

    'Too many people one cannot be',
    Said Grandma to a flea.
    Both Stalin and Hitler, Churchill and mouse
    They cannot live in one happy house.
    It ain't possible and it won't do.
    Cludsloo, cludsloo, cludsloo, cludsloo

  • Comment number 34.

    "They want reform of copyright and wiretapping law. They already have an MEP and have ambitions way [sic[ beyond Scandinavia."

    'Wow,' I thought, 'it sounds like there's revolution in the air in Sweden (or what would pass for it in Sweden), so the Newsnight report should be interesting'.

    Unfortunately, it wasn't. As the programme synopses often do, so much is promised, but very little is delivered - a case of "Newsnight-lite", again.

    The report did, admittedly, raise some interesting points, but, as ever, didn't follow-up on them, hampered by what seems to be a BBC-wide policy that's relatively new to me, but has probably always been present: 'if the other side won't put up anyone to defend their position, WE certainly won't and we won't find anyone who can, as that wouldn't be right, but we'll still call it balanced journalism'. Surely, this type of journalism is ripe for academic study?

    Given that much of the British mainstream media, when it has reported this, has painted a picture of the Swedish young, en masse, rising up against the established order, it was confusing to hear that the young-uns, you interviewed, appeared to be indifferent, if not mildly hostile to the party. Why is that? This wasn't explored.

    Other questions which were not answered (the ones I can immediately think of):
    How much support is there for The Pirate Party;
    What power will the single MEP have;
    How much money have Swedish musicians, film-makers, etc., lost due to piracy;
    How much revenue has the Swedish government lost;
    What measures are in the 'draconian' Swedish 'surveillance' law;
    How much global internet traffic passes through Sweden;
    Can the monitoring of internet traffic be seen, legitimately, as a vital tool in the fight against terrorism;
    What does our government's consultation with Sweden mean for our right to privacy;

    I guess I'll have to find answers to these questions in the print media or online.

  • Comment number 35.

    OOPS was Eye Full of LiQUID yes/Yesterday

    or was I dreamin. a nulabour clown/tur. attempted A Savage on One of our Top Soldiers?

  • Comment number 36.

    Who/What Voted for the unmentionABLE above post 35

  • Comment number 37.

    A Collection of Turds, A Tribe of Turds, A Toilet of Turds, A Bog of Turds, A Waste of Turds.

    I Do Believe if we got ourselves 650 Turds We would have A Far Far better class of Politician/s

    I Could Be Wrong, But I'm Not.

  • Comment number 38.

    mimpromptu (#33) Here's something for you to think over.

  • Comment number 39.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 40.

    mimpromptu (#33) This series of videos might make you think and write a little more carefully. Be sure to work through the series all the way to the end of part 5, and note what he says is needed in place of the intensional idioms of propositional attitude. This was back in the 1970s. If you don't understand why I am saying this, you're probably deeply immersed in what is wrong.

  • Comment number 41.

    the chinese currency, which should be the strongest in the world, is kept undervalued which means china is gaining an unfair advantage over those who let their currencies float. each person in the uk is paying for chinese economic imperialism.

    nothing on NN about maloch brown nor about the wounded numbers in afghanistan [over 100 a week]. why is it not a surprise?

  • Comment number 42.

    Strugglingtostaycalm (#34),

    I'm the Campaigns Officer of the Pirate Party UK, and I'll try to answer your questions.

    How much support is there for The Pirate Party? They got 7% of the vote in the European election in June.

    What power will the single MEP have? One MEP doesn't have much power on their own, but they can raise the awareness of issues and cause them to be debated. Incidently, if the Lisbon Treaty is passed, the Pirate Party will get another MEP.

    How much money have Swedish musicians, film-makers, etc., lost due to piracy? Probably a lot less than what they say they have!

    How much revenue has the Swedish government lost? None. This is because if people aren't spending their money on music and films, they will be spending it on other things instead, which the Swedish governmnet also taxes. Incidently, if Swedes spend less momney on Holywood films and instead spend money on Swedish-made goods, the Swedish government will get more revenue.

    What measures are in the 'draconian' Swedish 'surveillance' law? It gives the state the right to monitor ALL phone calls, emails, and other electronic communications that crosses Sweden's borders. At the moment they need to get a court order to monitor individual suspects; under this law they can routinely record every single phone call, email, text message, etc.

    How much global internet traffic passes through Sweden? A lot of traffic by Swedes does, for example if they use an email provider such as Gmail, then it crosses Sweden's borders even if sent to another Swede.

    Can the monitoring of internet traffic be seen, legitimately, as a vital tool in the fight against terrorism? I don't think so. Monitoring the communications of suspected terrorists would in my opinion be justified. Monitoring everyone is not justified.

    What does our government's consultation with Sweden mean for our right to privacy? The UK has similar plans to bug all our electionic communications, which demonstrates how much of a right they think we have to privacy.

  • Comment number 43.

    Nos39

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/hub/HouseRules-Defamation

    "credible evidence supporting your claims"

    This I have.

  • Comment number 44.

    34. Strugglingtostaycalm
    ~~How much money have Swedish musicians, film-makers, etc., lost due to piracy;
    How much revenue has the Swedish government lost;~~
    Not one single penny. It is not possible to lose anything when nothing is taken away from anyone. This lie is maintained by the greedy that they 'lose' anything at all. So obviously the state loses nothing either.
    All copyright protection should ONLY apply to anyone trying to make money out of another's work, not ever for personal use. Selling a copy is wrong giving it away or self use not.

  • Comment number 45.

    On Blunt there are a number of interesting angles.

    No visitor to this page could be unaware of the National Socialist element who pretend not to be the BNP but are and who are not Nazis - but they revere Hitler.

    So many could sympathise with those who, for instance, fought the fascists in the Spanish civil war but were not communists.

    Sewell probably has a fair point that Blunt was not that secret about following his conscience.

    But he spied for Russia due to his hatred of what is called the far right. Incidentally today the far right are clearly neither left nor right just amoral replacement tyrannical aristocrats carrying a baggage of lies as an ideology. Probably that is all that Hitler was before he shot himself.

    But at the end of the day Sewell was not a democrat.

    He was not on a knife edge of conscience with the security of the country versus his friendships.

    He enthusiastically hid evidence, threatened others, probably passed on information that would allow further penetrations and so on. People probably died due to his actions as Philby betrayed hundreds of agents.

    To say he had 'regrets' would be a bit like a 1945 Hitler offering a draw to Stalin.

    Rimmington, I believe, was responsible for searching out any more "Cambridge 5" types but did that include those who could have been blackmailed due to associations with Burgess for instance.

    I suppose the key question is did he pass on all of the information he could that would help flush out other spies and we probably won't ever know that.

    But I can see how Sewell would see a different and kindly face of the same man.

  • Comment number 46.

    Further to comment #24: to be fair to Susan Watts (who you will recall reported from a Scottish boat in the Arctic last year) the footnote on
    her statistical table last night made clear that the stats quoted did
    include Scotland ......

    The Scottish pattern of NHS provision is also I would argue of potential interest to viewers in England not least because one of the big changes
    that has resulted from the first decade of devolution in this area is of
    course the (admittedly expensive) policy of free personal care for OAPs.

    The combination of that with new information technologies (and all the issues and possibilities that arise from moving off paper files to on-line medical records), NHS 24 out of hours services and the philosophy
    of community care and trying to keep people in their own homes for as long as possible should they so desire with different types of care-packages and district nursing support, has raised all sorts of very
    interesting issues - not just in respect of how GP services now work.

    I have, for example, counted at least three 'Day Hospitals' within my
    immediate locality which are effectively 'poly-clinics' for the senior
    citizen who can still climb into an ambulance for their physio and the
    accompanying lunch that most seem to enjoy while various specialists come and test them in the one clinic rather than having people having
    to always traipse along to the big teaching hospital with its miles of
    corridors every-time they need an appointment .......

    This is progress - but it has public expenditure and organisational implications which are certainly worthy of Newsnight investigations
    from time to time ....... which was why I enjoyed last night's item.

    Some things work well in Tayside; other things sometimes go wrong -
    the reorganisation of the incontinence service locally, for example,
    did seem to result in a few teething problems .... and led to black
    market barter deals between different branches of the local NHS at all times of the night and day as supplies became erratic ....... at one point Tesco staff were advising people that plastic sheets for puppies might be suitable as they were 'on special offer' .... but there are trials and tribulations in any complex system and people do speak out.

    Surgical gloves were also like gold-dust last year .... but working out which service (NHS or local council) provided boxes of these items kept
    the patients occupied as full participants in the care management. That
    is the other big change: the GP is no longer King .... they now do try
    to involve the customer as well as deferring to nurses and to care staff when appropriate .... and they all learn hopefully from watching each other at work (depending of course on personality).

    The involvement of Marie Curie nurses has also been extended up here from cancer care to chronic heart disease - reflecting new priorities -
    and that is just one example of how the public and voluntary sectors need to liaise closely these days too.

    And in parts of Scotland there have been attempts to involve the private sector which has aroused controversy. In Tayside a recent experiment in
    rural areas led to a private sector contract being withdrawn after this
    was analysed and criticised by Professor Allyson Pollock from Edinburgh
    University http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7257462.stm whose unit
    not only analyses such issues in Scotland but also looks at England.

  • Comment number 47.

    Brown has let it be known that he has had "a difficult year".

    There are those that have lost their jobs and sometimes houses due to the crash. Millions are in negative equity.

    There are the soldiers who have lost their lives for their country when a few paltry millions could have sped up the arrival of new helicopters and troop transport vehicles.

    There are the generations of young educated people saddled with debt and a decreasing opportunity to pay off those debts.

    There are those who now realise that they will hit old age with virtually worthless pension returns.

    There are those who in their anger were duped into voting for the "modern and progressive" BNP - but are probably slowly waking up to the fact that they are indeed a non-democratic and evil party.

    So the whole country has had a bad year.

    Clegg and Cameron have a responsibility to annihilate Labour at the next general election.

  • Comment number 48.

    ON KNOWING AND BEING ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE

    Oh dear, the Telegraph is at odds with the BBC over something. Can it really possibly be the case that everyone is not equally at risk for criminogenic behaviour (as all the international evidence suggests) and if so, what else might be lurking in our group (assortive mating driven) genetic differences? Might there even be differences between some white groups (apart from risk of breat cancer and NCAH?).

    Meanwhile, as expected, the helping hands of the incumbent Lysenkoist Party have been fund in the SATs fiasco. Surely they can't have any interest in discrediting these repugnantly recalcitrant measures of group difference in cognitive ability can they? Surely it's just institutional racism in our schools like the police forces and courts and...

  • Comment number 49.

    thegangofone (#45) "fought the fascists in the Spanish civil war but were not communists."

    Correct. The ones fighting the fascists were Trotskyites and Anarchists - e.g the POUM and CNT. The 'communists' (Stalinists) were fighting them! The latter later joined up with the German Natinal Socialists. What happened in June 1941 is hard to explain, but led to the expansion of National Socialism in Europe, not its demise - it was just under different stewardship.

    What did that make the USA?

  • Comment number 50.

    47. At 1:27pm on 23 Jul 2009, thegangofone wrote:
    Brown has let it be known that he has had "a difficult year".


    And he has everyone to blame bar himself, too. With a nifty PR outfit on standby to reach 120M ears daily, uniquely.

    Still there compensations. Pay, perks and pension spring to mind for three. And all funded by those genuine income-generators in the country enjoying the fruits of his best efforts to date. Who says we are not going to reward failure?

    Bless.

  • Comment number 51.

    A relative who works in "food" has just called me saying that the Government are taking over cold storage facilities with regards the swine flu, rumour or whats watt Susan?

  • Comment number 52.

  • Comment number 53.

    SATANIC EVIL DOING IN SIN CITY AND ITS ENVIRONS

    It can't be helped, it's the demographics and all that freedom of choice.

  • Comment number 54.

    When a poll such as this http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/ is done, why isn't it anywhere on the BBC? Of course I might have missed it, but I find any negative report on immigration just isn't reported by the BBC, why? I find it very strange.

  • Comment number 55.

    #54 ecolizzy

    Gof1 might be interested in the link you supply - and the one at the end of the public comments on #48 JJ's the Telegraph link. On second thoughts neither mention Hitler or BNP so would not be thought relevant.

    I have suggested many times on NN and BBC's 'Have Your Say' that Sir Andrew Green of MigrationWatch be invited on relevant discussion panels. He was UK's Ambassador to Saudi Arabia and is not bias in his reporting of official statistics: many of which, of course, are never revealed by government or quoted by pc media.

  • Comment number 56.

    ecolizy (#54) & indignantindegene (#55) To be fair, the NN does have Andrew Green on quite a bit, I just think it would be good to give him some support by bringing on Richard Lynn (psychologist), David Coleman (demographer), Steve Jones (geneticist) and Charles Murray (political scientist) along with anyone NN wants to make the case for immigration. The problem, it seems to me, is that most of the public are still not able to think past their anger to think about the issue carefully enough. That is partly the clever way PC works. It is, I think a libertarian, right-wing tool in the service of the free-market, not the left. There is so much evidence that uncontrolled immigration at these levels is not good for the country (one just has to look at what has happened to the USA cf. ETS data) that it's not clear to me that The Points System will ever be enforced becasue of the ECHR and Lisbon Treaty. So what are the main parties really up to? Immigration appears to me to be being used as a political tool. I've suggested many times that the effect is to fragment i.e. Balkanize Britain, perhaps as part of the agenda of putting a group of NUTS size (6 million) Regional Development Agencies into the EU. What seems to be behind this agenda, if I am right, is the legislative enforcement of free-market capitalism or 'social democracy' (which Stalin once called social fascism) as a butress against SCO socialism (which I think as The Old Labour Party abroad).

    It requires some different thinking to see where I am going with all of this, but I think it may be right. Note it has nothing to do with most people's intentions.

  • Comment number 57.

    #56 Thanks Jean for explaining this all so clearly. Is that why the government keep talking about regional councils (government)? As a starting point? Also as some areas now are so full of one ethnicity, would that mean they would in a way get home rule for "their" area?

    We are not treated very fairly these days I feel. All the media seem to back the status quo as though frightened to upset the apple cart. : (

 

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