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Monday 29 June 2009

Verity Murphy | 17:06 UK time, Monday, 29 June 2009

What's coming up on the programme, from the web team:

Tonight we have a special report on the Mumbai terror attacks of November 2008 in which more than 170 people, including nine gunmen, died.

Newsnight reporter Richard Watson has had detailed access to the Mumbai police investigation into the attacks.

The information he has uncovered includes startling CCTV footage from inside the Taj Mahal Palace hotel and intercepted telephone exchanges between the gunmen on the ground and their handlers, believed to be in Pakistan.

These recordings, in which the voices of gunmen and handlers can be heard, shed new light on how the events unfolded and raise new questions about who was involved.

Also tonight, Prime Minister Gordon Brown has been setting out his policy plans for the next year, seen by some as an early election manifesto.

Tory leader David Cameron called it a "relaunch without a spending tag" and accused ministers of "dishonesty" after Lord Mandelson said that the Comprehensive Spending Review would not happen until after the election - a statement that appears to have taken the Treasury by surprise.

We will be joined by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and a senior Shadow Cabinet Minister to discuss the plan and whether Britain can afford it
.
Plus Paxman plays Glastonbury... well sort of.

Keep watching at the end of the programme to see how Dizzee Rascal's Glastonbury set opened with an homage to our very own Jeremy Paxman... a preview is available here.

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Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    Gordon Browns pledge to find work or training for all unemployed for a year people under 25 looks pretty commendable on face value, but do the wheels come off when you look at the probable detail.

    Even though well educated, a 19 year old unemployed friend of mine was offered a part time job cleaning at some DIY store, only about 15 hours a week and of course through a parasitic employment agency. His projected weekly wage came out at less than his 50 quid a week dole, and when you take into account traveling costs ( be it only shoe leather ) virtual slavery. I believe that after thinking about it he gave back word on the job, not worth starting since he was hoping to go into further education in September.

    Browns jobs for the under 25's plan will give the parasitic employment agencies the license to destroy full time cleaning jobs ( and the like ) once open to people of all ages and divide them up into part time packages to exploit the under 25's. It is patently obvious that the full rate minimum wage will be undermined, real businesses won't gain anything because the employment agencies will be charging them well over the odds for employing people direct.

    Once again Brown is promoting a welfare state for the stock market parasites, perhaps likely to be defeated Labour MP's are angling for jobs on the board of employment agencies after the next election.

  • Comment number 2.

    From the top deck No 14. Monday, 29 June 2009 Part One

    Tory finance policy.

    Assessed from a NN interview last week (Pre MJ ).... We will tell you after we have been elected.
    So, no change there then.

    Mr Cable ....

    Q .... we have to talk about this in an adult way .... unQ And then we have Ms Platel on the - same - programme whom declares Q .... Im so over Michael Jackson! .... unQ and declares unequivocal support for HMPs having second jobs. Right!

    Burqas .....

    .... and that which it symbolises still - shock, horror, probe. - fortunately on the media schedule. Could it possibly be that the BBC and some other pseudo-responsibles in the media have actually wanted to be able to discuss such contentious issues and have just needed to be able to claim protection by virtue of Public Interest validation. Perhaps now the NN Editorial team can take the lead on the evaluation, investigation and reporting of such subversive ishooz and their potential social consequences, and in the process fully re-establish NN as the premier UK TV ishoonewz programme?.

    What is essential is that HMG takes a long hard look, with thorough top deck involvement, at the imported issues that are affecting cultural and social cohesion in the UK and then formulates effective broad-ranging policies that not only meeting the aspirations of the GBP - for sound-bite appeal perhaps IMO the term harmony fits? - but also gets the full attention and support of the media so as to allow widespread dissemination to the top, and bottom deck GBP. The Borders, Immigration and Citizenship Bill currently in the system although being pared down - why? - could allay the fears of many .... If they - the GBP - knew about it, that is.

    Umm Hamza .....

    In response to the question as to why no male faces stroke bodies were required to be covered Ms Hamza responds that she would Q .... not question that .... unQ ( Did she choose of her own free will to ignore this crushing inconsistency in the roolz? ) Would we ask if it is that she has been told that - by a man? - or that she herself is beyond earthly desire and temptation with the consequent metaphorical veil over her soul? Perhaps her recognition and respect for the self ordained power of men over women is totally genuine? Would this suggest that perhaps her loyalty to her god may be challenged by potential westernisation and therefore other possible options should be considered? One must suspect that these alternatives are refuted for reasons beyond any non-believers understanding?

    The burqa 2 .....

    A muslim male upon entering a muslim household is not allowed to look upon any other member of said household until he has looked upon the male head of the household. Now theres equality for you, Boyo! An thatz a mans right too,Izntit?

    The burqa 3 .....

    Ms Brown - rightly - condemns that she and her daughter Q .... are seen as tarts because we will not wear a cage .... unQ At the same time one assumes that the critic of Ms Browns action not to wear a burqa will be proclaiming the right that his woman has the right to choose to wear the burqa if he so tells her to do . Hmm.

    The burqa 4 .....

    Five year old girls in the playground wearing burqas? Where are the officers of the Department of Children, Schools and Families? ( We did ask them for a spokesperson but no-one was available!!!!) Is it not the case that the burqa is to protect women from the attentions and desires of men? (And to save men from their mortal weaknesses perhaps?) In which case the Department of Health should be investigating as to why puberty occurs so early girls in some communities?

    How long before the GBP openly react to the increase in Islamification of communities in the UK? - Oops, sorry, How many BNP MEPs do we have? And how many did we have a year ago? - And how long before we learn the lessons from Denmark and France? Or do we have to publish more cartoons just to confirm that what applies to one is not allowed to apply to another? ( One Lutonian protesting at the recent parade of troops thru the town defended his actions on the basis that he was allowed to Q .... condemn oppression .... unQ Perhaps, because of time considerations the BBC had to edit out his statement that followed saying that he also condemned the oppression of women and that he was in the process of organising another demonstration for a later date in full and rigorous defense of women's rights.



    Q .... it helps us keep in touch with business .... unQ

    And what about the GBP?


    Suggestion for Nomination for Most Appropriate MJ song of the week ..... They dont care about us.?

    Responses as a download please?

  • Comment number 3.

    Dizzee Rascal ROCKS!!!!!!!See Jeremy's opening one of the hottest acts in the country - wonder if they will ever collaborate on a track together???

  • Comment number 4.

    From the top deck No 14. Monday, 29 June 2009 Part Two

    Sixty nine .....

    .... pence, and worth every penny. Period.

    23 .....

    .... million for what? Could not the money be better spent? The GBP will be consulted? Q .... the money wont be hard to find .... unQ. Sorry, forgot .... religion, worth every penny!

    BMA .....

    Does it not seem strange that some doctors seem to put more faith in their god than their own medical skills. Perhaps agnostic doctors are better qualified? What next? Tabernacles at the end of the bed?

    Local .....

    .... houses for local people. A good idea as long as it does not turn out the same as the Olympic site debacle of local jobs for local people. The policy is sound as long as it seen to be happening, if not it may be another nail in the HMGs coffin. One would hope that a successful strategy would at the same not lead to any further ghettoisation.

    Madoff .....

    If a deal is too good to be true, then it is ..... unless you are greedy. Pass the collection tray please?

    Mr (Jamie) Fox .....

    Q .... we want to celebrate this black man, this black man .... unQ

    Harmony in action?

    Mr Cameron .....

    Still hanging on to the coat tails. The statement on no additional jobs for the shadow cabinet in effect from December. Why only the shadow cabinet - a sop to the grandees? - why not all tory HMPs? Surely those that chose to fight at the next election would then be proving their real reason for standing. Or is this statement for you to avoid a one-to-one encounter with Brutus and his mates. And after the General Election .... what then?

    LTA .....

    Looks? ... Important? Oh, come on? Even Ms Frostrup says Reporters should be Q .... inoffensive to the eye .... unQ (Is Ms Kaplinski really so ravishing that she is worth one mill, or is she employed because she will she gather a deserved Pulitzer in due course? ) Take a look at TV and try to spot any of the new breed of reporters that are not telegenic? Sight over substance accounting for dumbing down perhaps. Or are we just in the 30 second society?

    Lady Em .....

    Trip to the US? Hope we are going to get a bit more for the cost than MJ hyperbole, supposition and moving balloons out of shot? You are worth more.

    Iran .....

    Where now? Further isolation from the rest? More Hey plebs, you are supposed to be blaming the UK What happens at the end of the second term, change the rules perhaps?

    Suggestion for Nomination for Quote of the Week ..... (In defence of 2nd jobs for HMPs)

  • Comment number 5.

    From the top deck No 14. Monday, 29 June 2009 Part Two .... Correction.

    Oops ....Noose round the neck ... apologies for the cutnpaste error!

    Suggestion for Nomination for Quote of the Week ..... (In defence of 2nd jobs for HMPs)

    Q .... it helps us keep in touch with business .... unQ

    And what about the GBP?

  • Comment number 6.

    The posts so far indicate that the GBP are not too interested in:
    (i) a few seconds of video on events in Mumbai last November;
    (ii) another studio confrontation of politicians scoring points off each other based on the 'latest' (previously promised) policies from Gordo;or
    (iii) Dizee Rascal's Newsnight homage to Paxo.

    Looking through today's newspapers, I would have thought that NN might alternatively have explored the implications for our society of the news that dozens of Sharia courts in our country have been found to be promoting alternative judicial decisions, contrary to laws established by our 'democratic' parliament.

  • Comment number 7.

    Brill, Dizz!
    Loved the 'Bonkers' out there as well.

  • Comment number 8.

    indignantindegene (#6) The producers don't appear to be at all interested in what vociferous viewers want. They tell viewers what's 'interesting' and if any of it isn't to their taste, well, that's their choice ;-).

  • Comment number 9.

    #6 indignantindegene

    Looking through today's newspapers, I would have thought that NN might alternatively have explored the implications for our society of the news that dozens of Sharia courts in our country have been found to be promoting alternative judicial decisions, contrary to laws established by our 'democratic' parliament.

    Totally agree, and what about this? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/labour/5673736/New-private-sector-jobs-taken-by-foreign-workers-research-suggests.html

    Can't say I've heard this mentioned on NN!!!


  • Comment number 10.

    Ecolizzy (#9) As a working hypothesis, I find it helpful to conceive of this government (and its predecssor) as strategic wreckers not builders.

  • Comment number 11.

    WELL ANY DISCUSSION OF EXTREME PAINT-BALLING IS OUT FOR SURE! (#9)

    And yet, here we are, primed to subpoena Tony, and have him swear on a choice of holy books, to tell the T, the WT and nothing but the T (so help him G of A) about why all the extreme paint-balling was set in motion. So when Tony spills all that truth, as he surely must, isn't it going to be jolly embarrassing? Top brass made to look foolish for sending our expendable squaddies on a wild EP chase? I think my military coup might be getting closer . . .

  • Comment number 12.

    We need to be clear about what the Q'uran has to say; modesty in all things. Nothing about hijab, jilbab or yashmak; these are cultural issues, nothing to do with religious precepts.

    Ataturk was right; separating religion and state; caliphate and republic, was the way forward and still is.

    We mustn't condemn Islam because some people wish to dress in a way which is culturally different to the accepted culture; rather, adopt the French republican approach; every citizen is a French citizen, not ethnically this or culturally that, but French.

    For some countries like Britain, this can be difficult, made up of a dominant power, two colonies and a onetime equal partner in a united kingdom; equally, Germany is a federal state, where many see themselves, for example, Bavarian first and German second.

    No doubt the debate on multi-culturalism and assimilation will run and run, but maybe with a better grounding in fact rather than rumour, hearsay and daft websites.

    I'd rather see NN discuss where we go from here, politically and socially; do we need to bring back John Tusa for some civilised discussion rather than the verbal ping-pong dished up in Paxman's absence?

  • Comment number 13.

    barrie (#11) May I remind you of the modus operandi of censorship in the free West. Might it be that the 'evil-dooers' abroad are more 'transparent'?

  • Comment number 14.

    kashibeyaz (#12) "I'd rather see NN discuss where we go from here, politically and socially"

    You surprise me. Second only to thegangofone. Now there's a thought to ponder.

  • Comment number 15.

    Why does Richard Watson speak in slow motion?

    Are we now too thick to understand the English language when spoken at a normal speed?

    There was also clear evidence of cost-cutting in the report: using pixellated mobile phone footage when broadcast quality T.V. footage is available. I can't believe the 'mobile' footage is MORE exclusive.

  • Comment number 16.

    Any chance that we could see something about the coup that's taking place in Honduras?
    Nothing on the main news either, has the BBC forgotten about it already?

  • Comment number 17.

    Liked Paxo's self-deprecating comments at the end of tonight's programme; Dizzee is clearly media-savvy in his sample of the clip. It would have been even better had Paxo himself been there on stage with "Mr Rascal" to provide a few cues. Might even have rivalled The Boss' set later on (only joking).

  • Comment number 18.

    BLESSED ARE THE NEWSMAKERS (sic) FOR THEY SHALL KNOW 'EDGY' (#15)

    Your answers are all in the one word; EDGY.

    Note the photo above. No wonder the poor chap is dizzy, he's all of a slope. This silliness is actually OLD 'edgy' aka BLUNTY. Our local paper has been sloping most of its pictures for years.

    But if you want to eclipse the pain of 'edgy', watch ten seconds of Liam Byrne. Why does he feel the need to work so hard at being more objectionable than Mandy?

  • Comment number 19.

    Outstanding investigation by Richard Watson on the Mumbai terror attacks which more than 170 people dead and countless others injured. I suspect the pixellated mobile phone footage was used as it was recorded by the victims or those in the vicinity at the time instead of the footage from the major broadcasters. The reason the mobile phone footage was exclusive was due to the fact it had been intercepted by the FBI/Other intelligence agencies, and the public had not heard it before. I was shocked to hear about the policemen who hid inside their police station with the gates locked when they heard the terrorists, and also by the fact that it took 12 hours to get the elite commandos flown in from Delhi. It was also appalling that police were ill-equipped both in terms of bullet-proof vests and ammunition.Had the appropriate equipment been issued, then many lives would have been saved. Thank you Richard & Newsnight for bringing all this to the public domain.

    Excellent debate by Jeremy with Liam Byrne & Theresa May.....yet again a classic - where this time he (Byrne) failed to answer the question, and instead of just saying he did not know, tried to dodge the question and failed miserably. Jeremy's remark that Darling was a "man of straw" was spot on.

  • Comment number 20.

    @ #17 - you know it really wouldn't be a bad idea if Jeremy did go on stage with Dizzee Rascal one of these days.......

  • Comment number 21.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 22.

    12. At 9:53pm on 29 Jun 2009, kashibeyaz wrote:

    Many very valid, intersting and pertinent points.

    Of course one cannot condemn any religious beliefs whether Islam, Judaism, Christianity Catholicism et al.

    However all religions are for the single person to choose according to their own mind. Not to be imposed on society as a whole. IMO any religion segregates, isolates, suppresses and blinds and we have more than enough in the way of problems as it is.


    IMHO there are several over-riding points that HMG must address:

    All are equal, unless proven otherwise in the eye of the law.

    No person has the right, nor can said person validate such actions by any religious ethic, to impose their interpretation of their faith on any other person for any reason.

    An over-simplification of course but ........

    When in Rome ....... Roman rules apply.

    Perhaps others may have different views and listening (reading) isnt that hard.

  • Comment number 23.

    Just got in from some bricklaying (the nights are really drawing in, seasons here are a real roller coaster ride). Had been thinking of that quote that JJ put up from Solzhenitsyn during thw day.

    Got back and the link is at #13. Recommended.

    kashibeyaz (#12) "I'd rather see NN discuss where we go from here, politically and socially.

    Definitely. I would add ecologically as well in terms of our continued future within and part of this planets systems. I have been pushing this for years. I did an article for an economics journal last year and two of the studio guests in a NN discussion on 23rd January 2008 had read it a few days before one referring to the content.

    This is as far as NN got.

    This relates to the Solzhenitsyn quote. He didn't really consider west or east as optimal. I don't. But just looking at mess everywhere in the world is in. I suppose I am not alone.

    If we have your debate, outcomes could be goals, aims or objectives. (Lazlo was the lead writer on the 1977 work Goals for Mankind. Reviewed hereish, but the author has an innocent view.)

    http://www.green-agenda.com/turningpoint.html

    How do we implement them. Working towards a goal, for a better world, requires a certain amount of planning. Even on this website the merest hint of that and Go1 accuses you of being Hitler.

    So we have the Garden of Eden, and the fall. In Islam Paradise. And the return. Street Photo Being mentioned Joni Mitchell. So touches on this in one of her best known songs. Also recorded by others.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaEEj4J4ydY

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 24.

    Paul Mason's reference to the "failure of the NHS computer project" shows sheer ignorance. There is no such thing as the NHS computer project. The NHS National Programme for IT has over 30 programmes in involving the use of information technology to improve the running of the NHS and patient care. Some have been successfully completed. Some are in development. A couple are behind schedule. Not one has failed.
    All you have to do to educate yourselves (ie the Newsnight team) about the breadth of the programme is look on the Connecting for Health website ... which has been there for several years now. I haven't found any reference to an 'NHS Computer'.
    Having said that, hidden within Connecting for Health's activities is a remarkable development of a mobile computer -- the Mobile Clinical Assistant, versions of which are now being manufactured by Panasonic, Motion Computing, Philips and others, and are already in hospitals around the UK see http://www.bjhcim.co.uk/news/2009/n906054.htm for a recent story about this.
    With a £100bn+ annual budget, spending £1.2bn a year on an IT project to bring the NHS - which employs over 1m people -- into the 21st century is not a lot. Also the £500m underspend mentioned is miniscule. This occured after there was an overspend last year and the NHS took measeures to reduce spend, which it did successfully. Shouldn't it be praised?

  • Comment number 25.

    Did anyone else interpret a wry smile - perhaps of contempt - from Sir JP immediately after the trail for "The - entirely missable and derisory - Political Pen" slot in tomorrows NN?

  • Comment number 26.

    #2 japerson

    "Oops, sorry, How many BNP MEPs do we have?"

    The answer is two! One of them shot himself in the eye with a shotgun cartridge in a fire! What a talent.

    The other was a National Socialist and used to do the Nazi salute thing.

    But now the BNP are not a Nazi party.

    But all of their supporters revere Hitler and they want Nazi policies.

    They are very confused.

    They are also the sort to stir up adolescents in Belfast against Romanian women with children. Its about their level.

    We'll soon get rid of them.

  • Comment number 27.

    #23 kingcleticlion

    "Working towards a goal, for a better world, requires a certain amount of planning. Even on this website the merest hint of that and Go1 accuses you of being Hitler."

    The BNP posters on this page announce that Hitler was a peace lover; they are "agnostic" on the Holocaust; they want an end to democracy; they seem unsympathetic to Romanian women attacked in Belfast; they are race "realists" etc.

    If it talks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck it probably is a duck.

    "I did an article for an economics journal last year and two of the studio guests in a NN discussion on 23rd January 2008 had read it a few days before one referring to the content."

    So what was the paper called?

    An economist who works on secret projects, deals with Nobel level scientists and is sympathetic to the BNP. You also told the police the Tay was going to flood.

  • Comment number 28.

    An excellent piece on Mumbai - very interesting.

    A mild criticism would be that Richard North did not clarify whether it is only suspicion that elements of the Pakistani intelligence were involved - or whether as their government insists it was individuals.

    I assume even in the tribal areas of Pakistan you don't pop out and buy a hand grenade - but I could be wrong.

  • Comment number 29.

    cheebaism (#16) "Any chance that we could see something about the coup that's taking place in Honduras?
    Nothing on the main news either, has the BBC forgotten about it already?"


    South America is full of evil statists (aka 'terrorists') these days. Chavez and friends might possibly upset/inspire NN viewers with his talk of military support of the ousted Honduras leader, his friendship with the PRC and his disrespectful remarks about Bush. Any such coverage might make the electorate vote BNP, or, worse still, prompt them to ask where Old Labour went to.

    I see from the above that Richard Watson still has some folk foxed as to who the evil-ones are.

    Evil Statists make Ponzi-schemes and 'securitization' rather difficult to run (jack-boots, crimes against the people, and other such stuff and nonsense). Hence the USA is the home of Ponzi-schemes, anarchism and 'securitization'. The USA undermines evil-statist regimes, which expands their markets, aka allows them to more readily dump toxic-assets offshore.

  • Comment number 30.

    #27 Go1

    NewStart 18th January 2008, Vol 10, No 417.

    It's a specialist journal. If you are in Government, local authority, University Library, good public library, economic development consultancy, etc . They will have it.

    You will see in the last paragraph I knew the global economy was going to crash. It did 3 says after publication. Wasn't going to risk my reputation on writing something inaccurate was I ;)

    Anyway it was good enough to be a source for a NN discussion. Let us know what you think.

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 31.

    #31 Go1

    "sympathetic to the BNP" so where have I ever written that. Are you delusional?

  • Comment number 32.

    #27 GoI

    "An economist who works on secret projects, deals with Nobel level scientists and is sympathetic to the BNP. You also told the police the Tay was going to flood."


    An economist who works on secret projects:

    If you are a metallurgist, it is possible to transfer the mechanics of atomic and crystal structure to other fields such as economics. Try W Brian Arthur.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Brian_Arthur

    The former Chief Scientist Sir David King worked on metallic catalysts. My specialist area was brittle/ductile transition of spheroidal graphite cast irons.


    deals with Nobel level scientists:

    I was one of the scientists who set up the new generation of UK climate models. Which was a contribution to the 2007 Nobel. Of course I deal with Nobel level scientists. How else are we supposed to get things done?


    and is sympathetic to the BNP:

    No I think you are confusing me with you. I am sympathetic to no political party. You want to hang people, the BNP want the return of the death penalty, so you have the sympathy with the BNP. I work on global ecological systems, see #30. All life and this planet is precious. Don't do politics. The BNP like all political parties, are in a box marked political. None have got a grasp on reality.


    You also told the police the Tay was going to flood:

    Of course I told the police the Tay was going to flood. I also gave them the date and that the flooding would be catastophic and UK wide. It's called Duty of Care. If I hadn't told them then I could have possibly subject to criminal actions. That I told the police, fulfilled all my legal responsibilities and moral obligations.

    I also told the Government via the competition to run the Millennium Dome as a global environmental management centre. Not only did I inform the Government I provided them with the solutions to prevent it happening.

    The UK Government could have had an extra £50 billion into the UK economy and all the solutions to global environmental and ecological challenges. But they chose a music venue to hold Michael Jackson concerts instead.

    See the 3 previous points.

    I thank you for your time.

    Celtic Lion





  • Comment number 33.

    mistress at 20:
    no! it would be a bad idea that?!

    mistress at 3: " dizzzy rascal rocks"...no! he raps. Zeppelin rocks - well, they rocked many yrs ago. I happened on Dizzy on the BBC glas-fest coverage and i asked one of the daughters is he any good, she said "yeah". Thats about as much as i learnt of dizzy. And my pragmatic side kicked-in with replying " i suppose there's a market for this kinda music"...apparently am middle aged and don't get todays music. Call me a traditionlist but i like to see a few intruments on stage but the Rascal interview after his performance at Glastonbury yesterday suggest he's got his feet firmly on the groud and ain't lumbered with the attitude that normally comes with these acts.

    Excellent and Insightfull report from Watson. For me it highlights yet again the dangers of radical religious teaching. Young minds pumped with ancient supernatural nonsense can easily run rampent with the aid of a cell phone and a kalashnikov to create terror...and all in the name of some prophet/god. Islam needs to move out of the dark ages and get upto speed with all the other quaint benign world religions. No holy book should be read by anybody until they reach the age of 25...and eventually there would be no religion. Now would'nt that be a nice world.

    Teresa May, the Tory front bencher who may not have too much political depth but works well generically when wheeled out on NN. Teresa was up againt that parroting Labour clone of a man Liam Byrne. Labour not mentioning the nesessary public spending cuts whilst charging the Tories as 'public spending slashers' is a tactic that won't work for Labour. I know Labour are hoping their core voting base will be hoodwinked but you can only rely on there ignorance for so long; they may be a bit thick around the edges but they'll soon see through this desperate tactic . This is a Govt scrambaling around for ideas and now are only holding on to power whilst figuring out their end-game; pensions, future employment prospects, a quick exit stratagy and a scorced earth policy that will have the incoming Tory Govt perplexed whilst trying to make sense of 'the books'

    Enjoyed Cricks report..labours damage limitation hack..does he pick up a cheque from Labour central or wot!

    Paul Mason: as always, excellent!

    P:S I once thought Jimmy Page was God, but as i got older, i realised all Jimmy was doing was working around the 12bar blues scale..now i see him as just a fellow musician albeit he's a lot more talented and richer while i stll have to do a day job:(

  • Comment number 34.

    #16 cheebaism I tried to give your some information about the coup in Hondorus, but the censors at the beeb won't let me.

    If you google, the Costa Rican newspaper Tico Times you will find articles about what's happening there, there was a long piece in yesterdays online paper. Alternatively go to CR country profile on the BBC and you will find the paper there.

  • Comment number 35.

  • Comment number 36.

    KCL #23: re your link to Goals of Mankind:
    "On certain growth issues there would seem to exist universal agreement. Consider, for example, the issue of population growth. Few would quarrel with the position that the global population cannot and should not be permitted to grow unchecked forever. That the population must level off some time, i.e., that population growth should stop, is the view gaining universal acceptance."

    If that view was in fact 'gaining universal acceptance' in the mid 1970s then there isn't much sign of it now, nor of the hoped for 'alliance of scientists an religionists'. Instead we have much of the world's population still under the yoke of religions that will not sanction birth control and a rising population in UK, to which threat all 3 major political parties only respond with calls for more housebuilding.

    It will take more than the snide, repetitive comments of certain posters here for me to stop raising the issues of immigration and population. The pity is that NN seems to prefer a mixed bag of current newsworthy items, and is not the place to host an in-depth discussion on those issues of vital long-term importance to our society and the ecology.

    I have to praise NN for a very interesting presentation of the Mumbai event; it crtainly made compulsive viewing. But for serious analysis of major developments that are adversely affecting our society, and the lives of my descendants, I prefer Panorama. Last night's programme about the potential for an Independant Scotland was well balanced and of more concern to me.

    There is no doubt that the Scots have more pride in, and love for, their country than do we in England. In fact, I'm almost inclined to hope that Scotland votes for independance, which will leave England as a recognisable independant entity that has been eclipsed by 'Britishness'.
    If devolution is a good thing for Scotland and Wales, then let's have some of that spirit for England, then we can look forward to electing MPs with national interests at heart, and preferably reducing some of the control from EU?

  • Comment number 37.

    ecolizzy (#35) As the report isn't out yet all I'll say is a) with 25,000 schools (over 20,000 of them primary mind you), that 1 billion averages out at just 40,000 per school which is about one experienced teacher's salary. Having said that, teachers are generally good people and not business people, so there is wastage. The predators on the outside know that most teachers are trusting people, which makes teachers easy prey. It was close to criminal to devolve budgets (it's been done throughout the Public Sector since Thatcher) as the LAs used to be serve a) as a firewall and b) have dedicated staff for procurement.

    See OECD on our skills.

    Sorry, but I think we're in a real mess. If you haven't understood this country since the 80s I reckon it's because you're quite bright/decent! Small consolation these days alas.

  • Comment number 38.

    erratum (#37) The a) was basically, it's not a lot of money, and the b) was that teachers are easy prey to predators as they basically model behaviours like trust, honesty and fair-play whilst naively expecting the rest of the world to mirror and respect these behaviours. In my experience, they like to think they are world wise, but they generally don't know how bad it is elsewhere as the lying, cheating and conning which they see is usually from still rather inexperienced perpetrators ;-(.

  • Comment number 39.

    #36 indignantindegene

    Thanks for reading the link. I agree with what you say. I found the comment which JJ linked to @ 13 above very encompassing in relation to why the other views and perspectives are excluded from the mainstream.

    Everyday I am saddened by how things are turning out, In 2002 as part of a submission to a UN report commissioned by the UK Government I said climate change was a greater threat than terrorism.

    My intention was to us this as a means of opening up the debate on the global situation ie the socio-economic relationship with the ecological systems of the planet which support the former.

    Unfortunately the UK Chief Scientist used it as a 'soundbite' and did not explore the rest of my work which accompanied that in the report.

    Somehow the opposite to what I intended has occurred. The debate focused on climate change, only on the CO2 contribution to that and within that cap and tax strategy etc.

    You of course are aware that the situation if far more expansive and deeper than that. Unfortunately society, in the main, had become deluded into believing that if we turn our mobile chargers off, the planet will be saved. Pollution, population growth, increased consumption of all kinds, species extinction etc etc seems to have been forgotten. All within some conceptualisation of the raison d'etre of what we as a planetary society are doing. Where are we going?

    It does not fit into a media friendly two word soundbite.

    If these other issues are not addressed and resolved very very quickly I fear it will all end in tears. Rather like the corners of the windows on a Comet airliner.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/19/newsid_3112000/3112466.stm

    Celtic Lion

  • Comment number 40.

    Sounds like they had a problem with controlling the humidity
    at Wimbledon for Murrays match last night - perhaps it was all
    the screaming fans - perhaps you can offer them some technical
    advice on that Celtic Lion ? becasue at the moment, for me and
    plenty more

    nothing else is.

  • Comment number 41.

    #37 & 38 Jean the AC have had to publish! : ) It's on their site. And I agree with what you say, especially this bit.... In my experience, they like to think they are world wise, but they generally don't know how bad it is elsewhere as the lying, cheating and conning which they see is usually from still rather inexperienced perpetrators ;-(.

  • Comment number 42.

    THE DISADVANTAGE OF BEING A NICE PERSON (#37)

    A 'nice' point JJ. My (retired teacher) sister finds me negative and cynical.
    Others call me a pessimist. But my response is that a pessimist, who keeps trying to improve matters, is the ultimate OPTIMIST. Another nice point perhaps?

    A cynical, negative pessimist, might even merit the award: 'OPTIMIST WITH DISTINCTION'? (:o)

  • Comment number 43.

    Barrie #42

    Optimists are always being disappointed, whereas we pessimists get only pleasant surprises! ;-)

    (Is all the Whacko Jacko nonsense out of the way now? Is it safe to come out from behind the monitors?)

  • Comment number 44.

    Cameron says there will be riots?

    and they haven't even been elected yet.

  • Comment number 45.

    SCAMS AND SPENDING CUTS?

    Just a link to a comment on the Madoff scam. Colonists/settlers need differentials.

  • Comment number 46.

    #43 Barrie ~ A cynical, negative pessimist, might even merit the award: 'OPTIMIST WITH DISTINCTION'? (:o)

    I thought all NN posters were like that! ;>)

    #36 Indi ~ Agree with your post entirely

    #39 Leo ~ As usual we are playing while Rome burns! Nobody will take the problems as a whole, you are right it's just the endless soundbite about climate change.

  • Comment number 47.

    #37 JJ just read this properly....

    "Most embarrassing for ministers is the OECD's "health check" on important public services. The OECD agreed that, since Labour came to power in 1997, health spending has "surged" but "the returns so far appear modest". Ironically, given official enthusiasm for "league tables", the OECD says the UK's economic future is endangered by the inequality of educational achievement a factor which has left the UK towards the bottom of the league table of advanced economies for social mobility: "International standardised tests show that the UK lags better performing countries significantly.""

    Looks as though we have done the same for education then, thrown our millions at it, when we needn't have done, as things haven't improved that much. We could have saved half a billion!

  • Comment number 48.

    The government are borrowing £500 million every day. Brown's promise that he can increase spending is clearly the last double or nothing bluff of a professional confidence trickster. Labour will not be forgiven for keeping this fraudster in power & will not be trusted ever again.

  • Comment number 49.

    What cuts are Labour planning ?

    I found that debate insulting , I don't know how Mr Paxman can stay so calm when confronted by such denial and spin by NuLabour.

    Some Articles That Maybe of Interest Too Some

    Big Lie.
    The Double Dipper.

  • Comment number 50.

    ecolizzy (#47) "Looks as though we have done the same for education then, thrown our millions at it, when we needn't have done, as things haven't improved that much. We could have saved half a billion!"

    Yes, except, as I have been saying for some time now (here and elsewhere.....), the very measures which have been taken to improve matters, have, I have suggested, actually made matters worse. This requires some thought, yet most people won't apply that, because what I'm saying is a) paradoxical and b) very depressing. People want alchemy.

  • Comment number 51.

    Looks as though there is another one to add to Steve - Londons list....

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8125663.stm

    I thought this brave new world, of housing for real local people wouldn't last long. One side of the labour party arguing with the other. I wonder what we the british public are here for, cannon fodder, tax payment?!

    #50 Yup Jean, we bury our heads even deeper in the sand every day! :(
    Did you notice the increase in LSAs, incredible, why don't we just use them, instead of a trained teacher, it would save even more money! ; )

  • Comment number 52.

    RIOTING IN THE STREETS (#44)

    I have been rioting since 2005.

    Hi Lizzie. All that money to the NHS has not helped with the unreconstructed nature of senior staff. I am battling with narcissists, egotists, and no-such-thing-as-Family-ists. 'What benefit a medical institution, if it gain the whole world but lose it's soul?'

    We have a problem - several problems.

  • Comment number 53.

    #52 barriesingleton

    "All that money to the NHS has not helped with the unreconstructed nature of senior staff."

    When you read a far right person who is inclined to the end of democracy, Hitler, eugenics, race "realism" and planned economies talking about "he unreconstructed nature of senior staff" its hard to take the comment seriously.


  • Comment number 54.

    #49 steve-london

    "I don't know how Mr Paxman can stay so calm when confronted by such denial and spin by NuLabour."

    Spin?

    The BNP say they are not a Nazi party and they are "modern and progressive" - though progressing to what is the issue.

    Yet on this page each day you can read the fanatics discuss race "realism", eugenics, Holocaust "agnosticism", the end of democracy, reverence to Hitler etc etc

  • Comment number 55.

    #32 kingcelticlion

    Sorry but I am not sure I believe you.

    You say with regard to the Tay - "If I hadn't told them then I could have possibly subject to criminal actions".

    Why would the police want to charge somebody - probably for the first time in history - for not telling them that there was going to be a flood unless that person worked for the environment agency - and then it would be the agency?

    Also "The BNP like all political parties, are in a box marked political. None have got a grasp on reality."

    So you like the Jaded_Jean links and you know that she reveres Hitler, is a Holocaust "agnostic", a race "realist" etc.

    I "do politics" as democracy is important and works best when all committed to democracy participate.

    When I mentioned the incident in Belfast where a Romany woman with a five day old child was beaten I seem to recall - and I have not gone back to check - your response was to ask me what I knew about Belfast.

    But if you aren't the BNP I apologise.

    Given that they use this page as a propaganda site I merely highlight what their real racial beliefs are as they would rarely, for instance, declare that they revere Hitler and would end democracy given the chance.


  • Comment number 56.

    #52 Barrie

    HOUSTON..

  • Comment number 57.

    Mumbai attack

    Why did the terrorists choose to attack the police station? Isnt it dangerous if not suicidal for a team of 2 gunmen to confront a large group of police force, who could easily be armed with guns and other ammunitions in the matter of minutes? If their motive were to maim as many innocent civilians as they could, shouldnt they have avoided those trained military guys with guns and bullet proof jackets, who outnumbered them and could easily have hunt them down?

    Isn't it strange that a terrorist mastermind, who was thought to be in Pakistan at the time of shooting, was monitoring the events in Mumbai with such remarkable precision? In my view, a more likely explanation would be that the controller (on the cell phone) was someone inside Mumbais city police with access to the polices monitoring/control room, which provided live feeds of CCTV footage in different areas of the city. Being an insider would also have granted him the knowledge of the deployment of antiterrorist forces on the ground, therefore enabling him to inform the gunmen of the whereabouts and number of police in their respectable areas. Just my conjecture, apology for my conspiracy theory! ^ ^

  • Comment number 58.

    #29 jaded_Jean

    "South America is full of evil statists (aka 'terrorists') these days. Chavez and friends might possibly upset/inspire NN viewers with his talk of military support of the ousted Honduras leader, his friendship with the PRC and his disrespectful remarks about Bush. Any such coverage might make the electorate vote BNP, or, worse still, prompt them to ask where Old Labour went to."

    You cling to this idea that "statism" is good and they are one happy family - yet your "revered" Hitler killed tens of millions of Soviet citizens and they did not see Hitler as any kind of hero or solution.

    Equally I would assume Chavez would be appalled by your race "realism" and desire for eugenics. I can't see how his comments about the US would convert anybody to the BNP - a "modern and progressive party" who are "not a Nazi party" according to one spokesperson.

    In the past I seem to recall you said you weren't the BNP or a Nazi.

    But you propagandize for the BNP and you desire all of the components of National Socialism.

    You never use the "fascist" word either.

  • Comment number 59.

    #52 Barrie I understand your problems. and no-such-thing-as-Family-ists

    Once you have entered any hospital be afraid, very afraid. Once you are in the machine, none of the governments "standards" apply. Oh people gaily write about your rights, ad nausiam, but the hospital is run for the staff, I've yet to find one that considers patients at all. Unless I've been very, very unlucky. Fortunately for me, it hasn't been me, so far, but I've watched just how they treat elderly, and sometimes confused old people, with complete contempt. They look at them in amazement if they can't reach for something, or can't get off the commode ; ). Most hospital carers haven't got a clue these days, but I must say the home type are excellent around here.

  • Comment number 60.

    Interview on public spending cuts

    I am afraid our political beasts have slowly become Paxman resistant, as they no longer seem to get embarrassed or nervous about not answering the questions that were put to them over and over again. Its infuriating that both Labour and the Conservative parties still refuse to step up to the plate and publish their plans on reducing public finance deficits over the next parliament, when both S&P and now OECD have issued stark warnings about the credit worthiness of this country. I suggest it is time to bring on new interrogation techniques to our politicians, such as locking them away in BBC studio for prolonged hours without food, water, or toilet visits until they have answered their questions with a simple yes and no.
    The homage to Paxo was hilarious. I goggled the Glastonbury festival, it sounds really fun! I am surprised I have never heard of it until today. It is a nice change from the depressing staff about Jackos passing, which has bombarded the media all weekend. Btw, why is last Fridays NN no longer available?

  • Comment number 61.

    9/11, AND DEJA VU, ALL OVER AGAIN (#57)

    If you have time to read all the detail of 9/11 Mademoiselle, you will get a distinct feeling you have heard this song before. There are more nutters in high places than in the high street. If other nations act like us British, they will just get out of the way of desperate wannabes and let them through. Look at the overt, needy, wannabes we have in high office. Look at Brown - he is no different from all the other crazy leaders elsewhere. A suit does not make you sane. There is a fundamental flaw in humanity; charisma is the weak point. I won't write it all again, it's too hot.

  • Comment number 62.

    #54

    Please leave me out of the lefts infighting , I have never been tempted by any forms of socialism (National Socialism , Communism or Fascism ) and I believe in birthright (put simply anyone born here has the same rights as me).


    #51

    Ecolizzy

    It was obvious that local councils will not be able to discriminate between UK citizens and non UK citizens , as for the Law that will be passed , they are only doing this to comply with the Lisbon Treaty (Fundamental Human Rights I believe).

    The bigger question about Lisbon and the ability to discriminate between non UK citizens and UK citizens is in the area of who's allowed to vote in a general election. I have yet to hear anyone answer this question yet.

  • Comment number 63.

    PARENTS TO SUE SCHOOLS FOR NOT PROVIDING EXTRA TUITION?

    How does that work?

    If kids don't make the grade, it's down to inadequate 'teaching'?

    It isn't down to inadequate genetic inheritance i.e. diversity in ability? If kids can't run the 100m in x secs are they to be given extra one-2-one tuition to help them to do so if they wish to run the 100m in x secs?

    If schools don't provide said effective tuition, are parents to sue?

    Is this not seditious nonsense? Or is there some hidden evidence that I am missing? Hidden away somewhere there must surely be measures that such children can achieve said standards...but where is this secret evidence that everyone is genetically the same and all diversity is environmental?

    This looks like yet more wrecking. Where does Mr Balls and department get their ideas from?

  • Comment number 64.

    Hospital very very good up here.In fact the whole health service is very friendly. It is as I assume Barrie would like it to be. Even though I was born in England.

    As to whether you are discriminated against depends on the individual. Eg I lost one job because the farm manager wasn't going to have an English born supervisor working on his farm.

    The discrimination if there is any tends to be anti English rather than anti European or any other ethnic groups.

    You just have to live with it. If someone doesn't like you just because where you are born (mothers family Scottish, fathers Welsh). You just have to live with it and get on. Nothing you can do.

  • Comment number 65.

    #62 Steve

    Yes a very good point on voting rights. Sometimes I read that people can vote as soon as they have an address and can be added to the electoral roll. And then other times I read, that you can't vote unless you've been here years. I can't get to the truth of the matter.

  • Comment number 66.

    Steve-London (#62) I fear he may have been infected by something akin to 'The Thing' :-(

  • Comment number 67.

    #63 Very good point Jean! What I'm wondering is when is all this one to one tuition going to happen. Class of say 25 pupils, teacher works most periods, when oh when is the teacher going to be available to do one to one? Are they suggesting longer hours for teaching staff, or hours of after school work? Or yet even more LSAs?

  • Comment number 68.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 69.

    THEY GOT IT ALL WRONG

    ecolizzy (#67) These are desperate measures taken by desperately misguided politicians who bought into the environmentalist (Marxist/Lysenkoist) nonsense that education is about enrichment rather than shaping operant levels of behaviour ('interests'/'aptitudes') driven by inherited genes. The enrichment dogma was taken as gospel in the 60s, 70s and 80s when these politicians an their advisors trained.

    Some now know that was all wrong.....

    Sadly, Ed Balls isn't one of them.

  • Comment number 70.

    Barrie,
    Given the amount of damage NuLabour has inflicted upon this country over the last 10 years economically, socially and internationally, I suspect the Brits are quickly approaching their upper tolerance level =o =

 

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