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Tuesday, 7 April, 2009

ADMIN USE ONLY | 17:53 UK time, Tuesday, 7 April 2009

Here's what's coming up on tonight's programme, presented by Gavin Esler:

Today's Quote for the Day:

"We are rearing a generation of kids who are in danger of becoming emotionally stunted, inarticulate hedonists, with the attention span of a gnat." Baroness Greenfield, one of Britain's foremost scientists.

In tonight's programme:

"It is the worst thing you could ever, ever experience as a child."

We have an investigation into how girls, heavily sedated while in care homes in the 1970s and 1980s, may now be at risk of having children with birth defects because of the medication they were given.

Ireland has gone from Celtic Tiger to economic intensive care. The Irish finance minister announced today that in 2009 the Irish economy will contract by 8%, the sharpest fall on record. He also announced an emergency budget of tax rises and spending cuts to deal with it. A few weeks ahead of our own UK budget, does Ireland point the way ahead for the British economy too? Are we on the edge of hair-shirt high tax, lower spending and low growth economics?

And there's an old joke that a camel is really a horse designed by a committee. But in Westminster there are signs of new life in the committees of back bench MPs. They are, at least in the view of some, becoming much more assertive, as demonstrated by the public interrogation of bankers and financial journalists recently. But could we see British parliamentary committees fulfilling the role of Congressional committees in Washington, and really holding the government to account?

Join us at 10.30pm on BBC Two.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    The Irish are of course having to cope with the impact of devaluation in their nearest
    market (Britain). Interesting too that they
    tightening belts across the board starting
    with Government Ministers and politicians
    taking pay-cuts and losing some perks of
    office which is in sharp contrast to the UK.

    They are also very clear that their future
    lies with Europe.

  • Comment number 2.

    On Ireland.

    On Committees:

    "could we see British parliamentary committees fulfilling the role of
    Congressional committees in Washington, and really holding the
    government to account?"


    That would be good, but for it to have any executive impact (rather than just TV/PR impact) we'd need to dramatically 're-capitalise' (aka 'purge' and restock) the Civil Service first, as that's become seriously 'over-leveraged' aka subverted, by anarchists/incompetents since 1979, by design to further anti-statism I suggest.

  • Comment number 3.

    GREENFIELD CITE

    Surely Susan Greenfield knows Britain is in the capable (nail-free) hands of James Brown (he that is called Gordon) who can smile without smiling and govern without a clue how?

    How can our children fail when their mothers care so much, that they work themselves to a frazzle for the damned brats? How fortunate is the modern child that the work-ethic is instilled - even in place of Mother's Milk. How much richer the experience of creche and TV than the SAME BORING MOTHER day after day.

    Get real Susan, you will be telling us that kids are growing up potty next (or do I mean not potty-trained?) It's all going awfully well. Tony gave us education X 3 before he scarpered, and Ed Balls (he that is called Balls - for good reason) is overseeing a plethora of initiatives that bring tears to the eyes - the latest being to have fewer initiatives. HOW SMART IS THAT?!

    So back off Susan. Look at it this way: When all the smart foreigners leave the sinking ship, we are going to need a lot of indigenous 'untouchables' who are too dim to earn enough to buy a ticket out. We will need them to do all the rubbish jobs and keep the police and prison service in work.

    You know it makes sense.

  • Comment number 4.

    barrie (#3) One of your best!

  • Comment number 5.

    "We have an investigation into how girls, heavily sedated while in care homes in the 1970s and 1980s, may now be at risk of having children with birth defects because of the medication they were given."

    I hope the programme is going to present epidemiological research evidence showing that there's evidence that benzodiazepines and/or anti-depressants can cause birth defects years long after they've been used, because they've been very widely prescribed for decades, and one would have expected any escalation in risk to have surfaced long ago.

  • Comment number 6.

    BLESSED ARE THE SEDATED (#5)

    It might be the placebo effect of being sat on by well-meaning Christians JJ.

    (Plaudits graciously accepted.)

  • Comment number 7.

    IRELAND TO JOIN 'NEXUS OF NICOTINE'

    Might all Ireland be planted to tobacco as a cash-crop? (Having done a deal to say 'YES' to 'Lisbon' in exchange for a reversal of the declining subsidy on EU-grown suicide weed.)

    Or poppies perhaps? Then troops from the EU 'Coalition of the Shilling' (as in 'not quite the full') could train in Ireland - for an immodest charge - in the destruction of narcotic crops.

    No - just a minute - I think I might have missed something here. Could it be that in the very same years that our poor fool squaddies were whacking poppies (I hope that is not slang for anything) that Bulgaria, Belgium, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Spain, Poland, and Portugal were GROWING TOBACCO with an EU SUBSIDY?

    I seem to remember that, only yesterday, NN were doing 'Cancer'. Don't remember mention of 'The Nexus of Nicotine' (above) do you? As Lung Cancer is the number one killer, let's bring the lads home and set them to work destroying the tobacco crop across Europe. Charity begins at home.
    If it starts world war X, that will be the overpopulation problem cured, at a stroke.


  • Comment number 8.

    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]As for House of Commons Committees how appropriate was for ONLY FIVE members of
    the Public Accounts Committee to approve
    a recent PAC report on 'The British Council:
    Achieving Impact' (sic) on 17 November 2008
    when THREE of these PAC members at that
    drafting meeting (see page 15 below for a Formal Minute) were not actually amongst
    the EIGHT MPs of the SIXTEEN MEMBER Public Accounts Committee who were in
    fact present during the Oral Evidence
    session with British Council on 23 June
    2008 (see page 19 of the PAC Report)?

    Some may call that 'scrutiny': others might reach for the noun 'whitewash' not least since one of those MPs in the 'approval
    and drafting meeting' on 17 November
    Nigel Griffiths MP is also Vice-Chair of a
    British Council Parliamentary Associates
    Group? Mr Griffiths has recently been in
    the news - or rather The News of The
    World - which analysed the contents
    of his wastepaper bin in this article,
    alleging inter alia that a PAC file was
    photographed therein on 11 November?

    So far we do not know precisely which documents were in that bin - though a
    judge has apparently ruled that this is
    a reasonable subject for speculation -
    and we do not know if any of the MPs
    on this committee had partaken of any
    British Council overseas trips recently
    (as The Speaker has ruled that such
    matters do not need to be registered).

    But Nigel Griffiths mentioned in The
    House in January 2008 that he had
    been speaking to British Council in
    Russia .... and it is suggested that
    at least one MP on the Foreign
    Affairs Committee (which is also
    supposed to scrutinise British
    Council) has enjoyed BC trips.

    Details are in 'The Telegraph'
    article cited below - and I've
    also included the page refs
    for the PAC's report into BC.


    http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/230378/Gordon-Browns-pal-Nigel-Griffiths-cheats-on-wife-with-brunette-on-Remembrance-Day-in-House-of-Commons.html

    http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/241973/MP-Nigel-Griffiths-Bid-to-silence-News-of-the-World-over-House-of-Commons-office-sex-revelations-rejected.html


    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

    http://dblackie.blogs.com/the_language_business/2009/02/10-spring-gardens-a-licence-to-bribe.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/4550620/Speaker-Michael-Martin-in-secrecy-row-over-British-Council-trips.html

  • Comment number 9.

    Related item - from The Herald Diary:

    "Nigel's talking nuts

    INCIDENTALLY, we are drawn to the minutes of Westminster's public accounts committee discussing readiness to fight terrorism, and the bold Nigel Griffiths, pictured, stating: "Having been to see the London Fire and Rescue Service, I was very impressed. If everyone who went and saw that was not impressed, I will go home and pickle my walnuts.""

    http://comments.theherald.co.uk/heraldtalk/2009/03/the-diary-83.php

    "Q76 Nigel Griffiths: In respect of this Report I am Len Goodman, and in the face of the Craig Revel Horwoods and what I think are some carping criticisms, I have to say that, having been to see the London Fire and Rescue Service, I was very impressed. If everyone who went and saw that was not impressed I will go home and pickle my walnuts. This Report itself I think deserves a better mark than six or seven. Yes, there are some criticisms but the Chairman stressed the timetable slippage and I would like to know if it resulted in any failure to protect the public from actual terrorist incidents or suspected incidents or catastrophic environmental events. "

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmpubacc/249/8111005.htm


    So that's what he was up to then.

  • Comment number 10.

    Baroness Greenfield is oh so right, and it's something I've thought for quite some time, I would go as far as to say, that it applies to at least eigty percent of British kids, furthermore I doubt if any of them will ever reach an IQ standard above fifty, maximum! (A normal average IQ is around the one hundred markup, give or take). I know it's a bit of an antiquated cliche but, I do "blame the parents" in the first place, and the Government a close second, batween them they have done nothing to stop the rot, it could be said that the rot started to set in around fifteen years ago, in that time the average kids brain has stepped back quite a few thousand years, to a time when Neanderthal man stomped about the stoneage world, because when two very young kids can cut and beat two other very young kids almost to death and just walk away as though nothing had happened, is just to much to comprehend, It's time for some very hard hitting action, from both parents and Government, because this sort of behaviour by kids, is in danger of getting out of hand, if it's not already. DaveS596-XE1

  • Comment number 11.


    Ref: Man dies in G20 protest.

    I notice you're not covering it tonight - but it seems photographic evidence suggests this poor chap was pushed by Police officers shortly before his death.

    As I understand it, photographing/video recording Police officers is now illegal - so this evidence which has been shown on the news tonight was illegally taken. Does that mean it is not admissible in court? ? ?

  • Comment number 12.

    Children in this country are often regarded as an unwanted side effect of sometimes loveless sex. It is not unusual to hear 'I hate kjds' said quite seriously. They were, until painfully recently, sent to 'the Colonies' often with the blessing of churches and/or their associated organisations.
    The 'chemical cosh' was used apparently in a C of E home and many cases have been revealed of abuse of children by the clergy and it was covered up, the corporate image of the church coming before the care of children.
    At least they now stand a chance of being heard unlike in the past. No wonder we have so many badly-behaved adults and diminishing congregations.

  • Comment number 13.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 14.

    Roy Hattersley is right; British parliamentary committees have no power over government policies or edicts. The committees which investigated government anti-civil liberties measures: ID Cards, NIR, detention without trial, protest bans, police powers, data protection violations, etc. have had no effect on government whatsoever.

    The government just gets its MPs to rubber stamp its decrees; most of the few MPs who threaten to rebel are bullied, bribed or blackmailed into submission.

  • Comment number 15.

    Hattersley forgets that there are several
    parliaments in Britain. Committees in the
    Scottish Parliament are very different in
    respects from those at Westminster e.g.
    they can for example do pre-legislative
    scrutiny and one hears public petitions:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament#Committees

  • Comment number 16.

    And Quentin Letts perhaps overestimates
    the performance of the Public Accounts
    Committee ....... Austin Mitchell MP may
    be a terrier but not so sure about some
    of his PAC colleagues. Take their recent
    report on The British Council. Of the 16
    MPs supposed to be on the PAC only 8
    were present to take the Oral Evidence
    and cross-examine British Council's CEO
    on 23 June 2008. Only 5 MPs were then
    at the meeting on 17 November 2008 to
    finalise and approve this report. But only
    2 MPs out of those 5 (Leigh and Bacon)
    had been at the Oral Evidence session!

    One of those who turned up to approve
    the report on British Council but who had
    skipped the evidence session was Nigel
    Griffiths MP who is also Vice-Chair of The
    British Council Associate Parliamentary Group. The Treasurer of British Council's
    Parliamentary Group is also on the PAC:

    http://www.britishcouncil.org/new/about-us/partnership-opportunities/parliamentary-activities/officers/

    Griffiths also visited British Council in Russia
    around the time they got into some trouble
    over failure to pay local taxes:

    http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.com/pa/cm200708/cmhansrd/cm080117/debtext/80117-0008.htm

    There is however no requirement on MPs to declare overseas trips with British Council -
    thanks to a special ruling by The Speaker
    which was "exposed" by 'The Telegraph':

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/4550620/Speaker-Michael-Martin-in-secrecy-row-over-British-Council-trips.html

    Is it a surprise therefore that many people think that British Council gets a very easy
    ride before both the PAC and the Foreign
    Affairs Select Committee - one of whose
    members Paul Keetch was named in The
    Telegraph as having accepted the Council's hospitality in the past two years. He is one
    MP we now know about thanks to the press
    and the Hansard report suggests that Vice-
    Chair Nigel Griffiths is also a BC 'associate'.

    This is not serious INDEPENENT scrutiny I would suggest. And scrutiny is needed:

    http://dblackie.blogs.com/the_language_business/2009/02/10-spring-gardens-a-licence-to-bribe.html

    http://dblackie.blogs.com/the_language_business/2007/07/index.html

  • Comment number 17.

    Further to my comment #16: you can check the attendance by MPs on page 15 and 19:

    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

  • Comment number 18.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 19.

    CHILD PROTECTION, CARING HOMES/PARENTS AND DRUGS

    Some girls in the care-homes who were drugged went on to have children with birth defects later in life, other girls who were not drugged did not have children with birth-defects. Why were some girls drugged and others not? What else differentiated the girls who were drugged? What else did the girls drugged go on to do later, especially whilst pregnant (drugs, alcohol, smoking). After Thalidomide a great deal of attention has obviously been paid to tranquilizers and possible birth defects.

    We didn't see the data unearthed or objectively analysed, we just heard some asssertions, anecdotal remarks, and the views of a professor of clinical pharmacology/President of the BPS who said the data were 'strikingly unusual'. He said it was all very unsual.
    There is always cause for concern, that's what the MHRA and NICE look into, but is there any good empirical evidence, because ifthere is, a lot of people have not done their jobs.

    Was this Children's Home a quasi secure-unit? A large proportion of those who commit crime come from broken homes and ended up in care, many were probably 'chemically coshed', but was that to blame for their criminal behaviour, or was it genetic? More and more it is turning out that our behaviour is genetic/runs in families.

    So, on the face of it, Newsnight didn't present evidence for a good case of these drugs and genotoxicity/birth-defects, in fact, I thought it was a sensationalist piece.

    If there is disturbing new evidence that drugs can cause genetic damage please get Susan Watts to present the meta-analyses, don't use a dramatic story, where people have vested interests and anecdotal evidence, just leave that to the likes of The News of The World etc. A bad night for Newsnight.

  • Comment number 20.

    1. the atmosphere of despair is tangible in ex-mining villages. until you have been in some its hard to describe.

    2. 1 in 20 pound coins fake. royal mint head in the sand.

  • Comment number 21.

    #19 Jaded_jean

    People who think Hitler style planned economies a good thing may not get upset at people being administered drugs for no apparent medical reason but those that like freedom and a democracy do.

    If there were a genetic issue there would be medical evidence, duh!

    So far as as can be told from your constant ramblings on genetics you have no scientific expertise and probably misunderstood some book?

    Genetic variation is greater within a race than between races and there is therefore no basis for your race "realist" rubbish.

    You aren't the BNP and you aren't trying to propagandize the 99.9% of the UK public who reject your hideous ideas.

  • Comment number 22.

    to all the euro enthusiasts just have a look a the Celtic tiger in Dublin...he looks pretty sick

  • Comment number 23.

    Thought the piece on Ireland flirted with some of the issues but didn't really take up where we will be in a few years.

    We know there will be plenty of debt in Ireland and the UK but the economies will presumably re-balance quite violently in the next five years?

    Services will get cut, can the UK afford war in Afghanistan and I worry about Higher Education impacts in student numbers and general funding. Homelessness and people who may never work again.

    I thought the piece on the caring homes very worrying and would have thought there would be an almost immediate take up of the issue by Parliamentarians and scientists?

    It did not purport to be a scientific study or to report one - but did raise enough issues that one may be undertaken.

    A good night for Newsnight.

  • Comment number 24.

    #3 barriesingleton


    Actually apparently the Neanderthals had a larger brain than us and may have been more intelligent.

    But people would need to be very, very stupid to listen to you and jaded_jean as you don't like democracy and anti-fascists and do like eugenics, planned economies as exemplified by Hitler.

    You are the kind of people who were hazy about the Holocaust and like the kind of "robust" response to anarchist and Trotskyites taken by Hitler.

    You people define anybody outside your insane ideology (you hate anti-fascists) as anarchists and Trotskyite.

    Its hard to see why the 99.9% of the UK public who enthusiastically reject your views would change their minds when they consider your social engineering thoughts?


  • Comment number 25.

    #5 jaded_jean

    "they've been very widely prescribed for decades, and one would have expected any escalation in risk to have surfaced long ago"

    Yes but if they were prescribed for a medical reason then the body may have responded differently to a body that was subjected to the medicine for no reason.

    So do you actually have ANY background in science?

  • Comment number 26.

    #22

    Agreed , but the EU will see it as a opportunity to gain more controls over it's member states.


    Talking about more control over member states you might find this article interesting.

  • Comment number 27.

    #4 jaded_jean
    "barrie (#3) One of your best!"

    Its like Springtime for Hitler but serious!

    Barriesingleton even does poetry.

    Like the woman whose husband had dumped her on "BNP Wives" and did a poem! You just needed to find out her ex-husband was Jewish.

    Also through his R&D he has done "measuring and observation" and knows the 10,000 years of accumulated research by experts "could be wrong".

    Jaded_Jean meanwhile proclaims race "realism" and the massive majority of the mainstream scientists who disagree are "all Jews". Hazy about the Holocaust.

    They aren't Nazis - but don't "paint Hitler as darkly as possible for party political reasons". They aren't the BNP but would like to see them on Newsnight. They never say they are fascists (David Irving school of "diplomacy"?) but seek to stand up against "cultural Marxism and anti-fascists".

    Should they be on Newsnight, these people that seek to replace democracy and institute their race "realist" ideas?

    Nah! 99.9% of the public reject them.

    The bouncey castle in the BNP field will have to stay empty.

    Hoorah for multicuturalism!

  • Comment number 28.

    "We are rearing a generation of kids who are in danger of becoming emotionally stunted, inarticulate hedonists, with the attention span of a gnat." Baroness Greenfield, one of Britain's foremost scientists.

    With all due respect, she's not. That anyone asserts she is, is just a sad sign of our times. This is evidence of celebritism and narcissism gone mad. How long before Jade Goody's name is used the same way?

    What she says above, is true. But it has nothing to do with her field of work. In fact, the people who have done the work have been very badly treated indeed........(see Cattell, Herrnstein, Murray, Lynn)..

    Note she uses the word 'rearing' and not 'breeding'?

    This will have the unwary (most people alas) thinking that more can be done through investment in parenting skills, education and enrichment programs etc - i.e environment. All of which only make a contribution through reducing further harm (if they have any effect whatsoever) - cf. Child Protection - if one goes by the research evidence.... but don't let that get in the way of a good story/plug for........ je ne sais quoi

  • Comment number 29.

    '..emotionally stunted, inarticulate hedonists, with the attention span of a gnat.

    Looking at most of today's political 'elite', and the chatterati remoras in their company, I was surprised to read on and find this was actually about our kids.

    Sorry 'yet another over-titled person', and those who see ratings and profit on getting on aboard the latest sweeping cause du jour espoused, but my two are just fine.

    So enough of the 'we'. But you lot have much to answer for, for sure.

  • Comment number 30.

    THOSE WHO'D 'LIKE TO TEACH THE WORLD TO...

    Here's one for all those not taken in by the 'it's good for the economy' or Civil/Human Rights/Equality subterfuge, as cheap, grateful, labour is relentlessly exploited in pursuit of greater market share and political power by globalists/internationalists.

  • Comment number 31.

    I read the comment by Jaded Jean and before you write comments obout children from broken home being criminals or words to that effect. Alot of those children were put in Kendall House through no fault of their own.

    It wasn't only the drugs but physical abuse and on occasions it has been alleged sexual abuse.

    These girls still wake up in cold sweats have horrendous flashbacks and nightmares and can not get any closure because they have had no justice or no appology.

    Jaded Jean think about those girls how they are hurting and how you have now added to it by your comments.

  • Comment number 32.

    Judging by the opinionated nature of Jaded Jean (right or wrong) she should reflect that had she been so unlucky (there for the grace of god etc) she would have been a prime candidate for drugging. Think on Jaded Jean - it could have been you.

  • Comment number 33.

    I would like to make the proposition that Go1 is an intelligent, highly educated, well informed and articulate individual. He/she is sympathetic to and can empathise with those less fortunate. He/she has a thorough grasp of politics and economics and is able to analyse a problem and provide a workable solution almost instantaneously. The milk of human kindness flows ceaselessly from his/her breast and were our world fortunate enough to have more like him/her then it would indeed be Utopia.

  • Comment number 34.

    cozconcerned (#31) "I read the comment by Jaded Jean and before you write comments obout children from broken home being criminals or words to that effect. Alot of those children were put in Kendall House through no fault of their own."

    We end up with the genes (and parents) through 'no fault of our own' but teh behaviours are expressed regardless. The problem lies with using terms like fault, and other intensional folk-psychological idioms in pseudo-explanatory positions (they explain nothing). Bull-Terriers (model ASPDs) also behave the way they do 'through no fault of their own', so do Labradors. Can we turn Bull-Terrriers into Labradors? No!

    What I have said reflects the harsh empirical facts, years of research by those who work in these fields - you should try to grasp these facts, as if trends continue as they are, we will continue to breed more and more people (Bull-Terriers) who can neither can managed nor can manage themselves. Do we do so 'through no fault of our own?'.

    Also, look into the modus operandi of negative-reinforcement and plot the crime rate since the end of WWII. Crime peaks in the late teens, and a very good proportion of our offenders come from 'broken homes'. Is that their fault? Does it matter? Can we rehabilitate them? NO! Could we stop breeding more of them? YES! Will we? NO! Why? Because people express views as you do.

    The road to hell is paved with good intentions

  • Comment number 35.

    NewFazer (#33) Excellent hypothesis. In the interest of fair play, let's start collecting fresh empirical evidence from this point on.

  • Comment number 36.

    ' A large proportion of those who commit crime come from broken homes and ended up in care, many were probably 'chemically coshed', but was that to blame for their criminal behaviour, or was it genetic? More and more it is turning out that our behaviour is genetic/runs in families'.

    In response to Jadedjeans comment.

    I would like to point out that many children who end up in the care system may do so because they have often come from a background of sexual, emotional and pysical abuse. This does not make them criminals or criminally minded, nor is this anything to do with genetics.

    It is jadedjeans attitude and those like her that needs to change in this country so that the girls of Kendal House can find the answers and appoligises they deserve.

  • Comment number 37.

    pit[h]ywriter (#32) Not all girls are made of 'sugar and spice', and just because some tell you that they don't know why they're treated the way that they are, it doesn't mean that other people don't! ;-)

  • Comment number 38.

    ANIMAL IMPERATIVES IN A PSEUDO-CEREBRAL WORLD.

    As I type this, Radio 4 is covering atrocities by the 'Kossovo Liberation Army'. Then there are all the other records of our penchant for atrocity.

    Zimbardo made a very good case for CIRCUMSTANCE being paramount - if people CAN be nasty they very probably will be nasty. My offering on the subject is that, though we live the lie that we are cerebral, mature humans, we are in fact, juvenile barely-modified animals. Put the two together and inevitability looms.

    Small units of society and nurture for COMPETENCE before cleverness, would go a long way to a better world. We have gone the global, crass 'education x 3 route'. Watch and weep.

  • Comment number 39.

    survivorsrus (36) "I would like to point out that many children who end up in the care system may do so because they have often come from a background of sexual, emotional and pysical abuse. This does not make them criminals or criminally minded, nor is this anything to do with genetics."

    I would like to point out that those who end up in care and go on to commit offences (some of which are sexual offences) may well do so because they are the progeny of people whom they share genes with and behaviour is largely genetic.

    "It is jadedjeans attitude and those like her that needs to change in this country so that the girls of Kendal House can find the answers and appoligises they deserve."

    No, it's not an 'attitude', what I am telling you is what the relevant empirical evidence shows. We do not have any good evidence that environment is primarily responsible for these behaviours, but we do have quantitative genetic evidence that behaviour runs in families and therefore is likely to be (molecular) genetic.

    You also need to look at the other evidence for lack of environmental impact from HeadStart to the failure of rehabilitation and other interventions. It's why Probation has been decimated in recent years (see NAPO site) and is now going to have the intervention side of its work (for what it's worth) put out to the private and Third Sectors (cf. the Offender Management Act). In the future they are to focus on Risk Assesment/Management, ask why.

    In other words, you're just making stuff up. I, on the other hand, am summarising the published empirical research and allerting you and others a policy direction change as a result of 'Nothing Works' which should never have been corrupted into 'What Works by some in the Home Office in the early 90s, as there was no evidence for it.

    I suggest you will not be able to prove me wrong based on evidence driven practice either, essentially because there isn't any reliable evidence for what you assert. I am tired of hearing people say otherwise.

    The impact of environment is largely post-conception physical damage (drinking, drugs, physical abuse etc) and you have to ask what accounts for all of that if not genetically driven bad breeding/parenting. There is a case for Child Protection, but this is a much taller-order than many make out in our Liberal-Democratic, anti-statist society, and only amounts to further damage limitation at best.

    If there was good evidence for environmentalism (efficacy of teaching, training etc), we would know about it, and we would have been effectively implementing it which would have shown up in all the research. Those who assert there is such evidence where there is none, are effectively behaving as frausters (criminals) themselves, either to keep their jobs (money), or in order to profit out of the unwary who buy snake oil (books, courses, etc)......Ignorance is no excuse.

    References for all I assert have been provided over a very long period of posting on this theme. I suggest you look into this rather than peddle good intentions/misconceptions.

  • Comment number 40.

    JadedJean, I was saddened you see your reply on Kendall house.

    I was one of the girls there, I was meant to go to a normal childrens home but at the last minute was sent to Kendall house for some reason.

    I have proof that I was not violent before or on coming out of kendall house. I was a threat to no one, nor was teresa.

    I was not a criminal. I don't understand why I was locked up and drugged with every drug going. The strange thing is, the girls that were violent and were bullies in Kendall house were not drugged?????

    Just because some of us have had a bad start in life (due to people close around us) does not mean we are going to do the same! Some of us do live and learn from others.

    When I was put into care I thought that I would at last be safe, instead I found my self being more abused in the childrens homes prior to and at Kendall house than I had ever been, before I went into care.


    By the way I don't do drugs and I hardly ever drink, When I came out of Kendall house, to foster parents, they gave me the chance to live a normal live with nothing to fear.

    If you don't know all the facts, please don't sit there taking pot shots in the dark, tarring everyone with the same brush.


    Maybe you should thank your lucky stars that you never had to go into care and if you have kids, that they are healthy!





  • Comment number 41.

    Police brutality:
    I for one would like to see more brutality from our boys in blue but i do draw the line with the recent police attack thats making headlines at the moment
    A man walking - with his hands deep in his pockets and his back to the police. A Police baton, thrust deep into an unsuspecting newsagent walking home from work. The video clip we have seen repeated for days on our TV screens, shows an unprovoked attack, so it would appear, by a member of the riot police. I wonder what the charges will be for that Police officer?

    Just this week a young man was given a
    4 yrs prison sentence. He was rejected from entering a pub, and in his drunken emotive state (some people really can't deal with rejection) launched a glass into the premises. His actions sadly caused the death of a young mother. Neither the Police office in question nor the young drunk went out to kill but their actions did contribute to two deaths and families are now left grieving ...there really has to be some consequence to actions we make in life.

    Can the police confine their baton attacks to car thieves and muggers and all the other scum that makes life a misery for the rest of us, I think most of us would willingly avert our eyes the other way when that's happening but the thuggery shown on that video clip ...was just state sponsored thuggery. I remember a video clip not so long ago of police running in a awkward backwards kinda fashion whilst they were barracked, ridiculed and spat at...been a Muslim fanatic somehow gets you the police baton immunity certificate...God help you if your an upstanding citizen with your back to the Police.

  • Comment number 42.

    POINT TAKEN (#41)

    If some individuals - whatever their station in life - want the freedom to cause the death of innocent civilians, without warning, and with impunity, they should join the armed forces. I am given to understand that, in the global village, foreigners now have 1:1 equality with the British, and I presume that applies in death also?

  • Comment number 43.

    Jaded Jean if your arguement holds true. Then what is the point of psychiatric assesssment units, Councellors,because if any one believed your out landish views then no body would get help cause it is in their genes.

    Does it also mean that your children if you have any will be insensitive to the pain of others cause their mum is as it is in their genes.

    Are you related to Robert Ewing?

    Also if you go to the hospital with acute stomach pain would you think that it is ok for the doctor to say he wouldn't help you because stomach pains are in your genes

  • Comment number 44.

    cozconcerned (#43) "if your arguement holds true. Then what is the point of psychiatric assesssment units, Councellors, because if any one believed your out landish views then no body would get help cause it is in their genes."

    Assessment is just the pre-requiste for management. In psychiatry, this is usually pharmacological, behavioiur can be managed, that is not quite the same thing as changing it. There is no good evidence that counselling is anything other than a filler whilst spontaneous remission takes its natural course, although some people can be helped to better manage their behaviour. Psychotherapy is a poorly regulated business where few are qualified in anything efficacious. There are plans afoot to better regulate those who try to provide such 'services'.

    There's nothing 'outlandish' about anything that I've said. You should listen very carefully to what I am telling you and folow it up, although clearly, you'd be surprised at how many good/experienced psychiatrists and psychologists would say the same thing.

    Your second paragraph on just reveal what you don't understand.

  • Comment number 45.

    MANY A TRUE THING...?

    But why... exactly?

  • Comment number 46.

    cozconcerned (#43) "Jaded Jean if your arguement holds true"

    Please note, arguments are neither true nor false, they are valid or invalid logically. It is empircal statements which are true or false as a function of evidence. I have told you what is empirically the case. My logic is valid.

    Our education system appears to have corrupted our population to a rather significant extent. Natural Language, as I have sad before, is non truth-functional.

    Speaking of truth-functionality:

    NEWSNIGHT

    Perhaps you could ask the psychotherapist Derek Draper onto the programme to discuss his e-mail exchanges with McBride? Perhaps in his role as part-time member of the Newsnight trio/Political Panel (which seems strangely agreeable for allegedly party political rivals).

  • Comment number 47.

    JadedJean

    In response to your posts on Kendall House

    Your attitude is poor and it is this ignorance that socialy brands innocent children and careleavers.

    It is common for children to be taken into care who have suffered abuse at home. They are taken into care to be protected but history has proven the care system has over the years abused children far worst than they were abused at home. The care system has seen well behaved children change dramatically once taken into care.

    Either way that does not give any psychiatrist, church or local authority the right to drug a child just for the sake of it. It also doesn't give them the right to seriously overdose any child no matter what their behaviour.

    Teresa had no history of violence, agression, depression, bad behaviour or anything else and was never in trouble with the police. She didnt smoke, drink, take drugs or anything else you have mentioned during pregnancy and didn't leave care and end up a criminal.

    Being the expert you are please can you tell everyone what reserach was done in 2005 on children with ADHD and the results of the dna tests done before during and after they were given drugs for ADHD?

 

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