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How will Rangers fans respond to club's plight?

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Jim Spence | 23:19 UK time, Monday, 6 February 2012

Will Rangers' exit from the Scottish Cup galvanise their supporters into any reaction, other than resignation and apathy?

Are the light blue legions capable of the same kind of action which supporters of other Scottish clubs organised, when they felt their own clubs were in serious danger?

A crowd of just 17,800 for the defeat at Ibrox from Dundee United is a worrying portent.

Sunday's Rangers-Dundee United Cup game was live on BBC TV, but the empty spaces around Ibrox did little to raise Rangers fans' spirits. Photo: SNS

Sunday's Rangers-Dundee United Cup game was live on BBC TV, but the empty spaces around Ibrox did little to raise Rangers fans' spirits. Photo: SNS

Many of us can recall a time, not too long ago, when such attendances were not uncommon at Ibrox.

Then the years of plenty arrived under Sir David Murray and Graeme Souness, and continued under Walter Smith.

Full houses and big spending were the order of the day, but Rangers now face a different financial reality.

The club's supporters must be contemplating a radically different future from their illustrious past.

With the club's future shrouded in uncertainty, do they have the spirit to organise themselves to try to effect change?

Celtic, Dundee United and Hibernian fans all rallied to their respective causes when they felt their clubs were in peril.

"Celts for Change" forced what they saw as a discredited board from power; ushering in the Fergus McCann era.

"Hands off Hibs" saved their club from the merger (or takeover and oblivion) proposed by the late Wallace Mercer and found their saviour in Sir Tom Farmer.

"United for Change" brought an end to the tired regime of Jim Mclean and allowed Eddie Thompson to take control at Tannadice.

Rangers fans, though, appear to be much less proactive than those three groups were.

With the Ibrox club facing perhaps the greatest crisis in their long history, there appears to be little serious organised campaigning to demand action.

A prominent Rangers fan once told me that the Ibrox supporters had "The Man in the Big Hoose" mentality.

He reckoned they doffed the cap too easily to those in power.

Was he right? Have Rangers fans, normally not short on voicing their opinions, been too subservient on the issues at Ibrox?

Neither Sir David Murray nor Craig Whyte, faced anything like the well organised and orchestrated campaigns, which the boards at Celtic Park and Tannadice had to contend with.

It may simply be that Rangers supporters have sufficient faith in those who have run and are currently running their club.

However, it seems strange to me that fans of the club from Govan, with all the associated memories of radical shipyard workers in that part of the city, should so meekly accept what the fates may be about to deal them.

Among a vast Ibrox support there surely exists the range of knowledge and skills to help shape the future direction of the club.

The big question for Rangers fans is whether they are prepared to do something about it.

Comments

Page 1 of 2

  • Comment number 1.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 2.

    Jim, rather than question Ranger's fans integrity and commitment in a deliberately inflammatory article, you neglect to mention what good a fans protest would do given the circumstances at Rangers - widely accepted to be largely caused by financial mismanagement in the PREVIOUS two decades.

    The current board has been in place for less than a season. How could a fans protest sway HMRC on the impending Tax decision? What EXACTLY should fans be protesting about? Previous years of unsustainable expenditure? HM Revenue and Customs law? The fact that BBC journalists have been denied access to the club. I thought that was a bad move, and reeked of paranoia, but now I'm not so sure...

  • Comment number 3.

    Who cares?? Bye bye Glasgow Rangers......HALLO AFC GOVAN, haha

  • Comment number 4.

    Could it be that Rangers only have a genuine fan base of less than 17,000 and the rest are all glory hunters like many outside the OF believe?

    But seriously speaking perhaps Rangers plight has a "too big to fail" feeling about it amoung the less business-savvy supporters for them to really understand what a serious mess they are in? They've been on top of Scottish football for so long it's hard to believe what's actually going on and that no White Knight wants to save them.

    On top of that from a footballing perspective this won't be the first season they haven't won anything and they've bounced back, perhaps the fans think this is what's happening, or maybe it was so cold on Sunday that only the men from Dundee could be bothered to go.

    Then again pigs might fly....

  • Comment number 5.

    The sad thing for Scottish Football is it needs a strong Rangers. Sky won't pay for a TV Deal that has only one horse in the race, attendences will go down across Soctland, including Celtic Park, last season their fans demonstrated a regular habit of dressing up as green seats for many games, especially midweek ones. They may crow and gloat but anything that affects Rangers ability to compete is bad for them and inevitably weakens the whole of Scottish Football.

    Your article Jim is typical of the way the BBC reports the Rangers issue, you have a sly dig at the fans integrity and fail to recognise the obvious to anyone who attends a game at Ibrox, the fan base comes form far and wide, not just Govan.

    You of course would love to see the whole saga get worse, It will give you and your mates something to talk about on Radio Scotland every night. Rangers Media ban has let you go unchallenged in your wilder assumptions. One might also wonder why you don't ask the awkward questions to the men who caused this mess, David Murray, paul Murray, Alistair Johnstone etc. Instead they are feted and given an easy ride.

    Rangers fans are different to Celtic Fans. Had Walter Smith bottled the league title in the way Lennon did last and gone out onto the pitch to address the fans he would have been talking to himself. Rangers fans behave differently we don't take to the carpark with regular abandon.

    Craig Whyte may or may not be guilty of the myriad of things the BBC acccuse him off. I don't know, but I suspect I know as much as the BBC do about him without spending large sums of other peoples money. There are a couple of things I do know though. He did not land us in the tax mess we are in. He did not spend the money that created the debt we are in. No-one else was prepared to buy the club. So he deserves a chance. The media campaign against him has been ridiculous and unprecedented. The media campaign is one of the main reasons Rangers fans are not asking more questions. They are sickened by the treatment of the club and fans. Many ask why the same questions are not asked about other business men in the same way and to the same extreme, who own Scottish teams. One can only wonder why. Rangers fans would also like some facts, instead of the stream of inuendo. The BBC are big on theories and inuendo but short on facts.

    Moving forward Scottish Football needs to realise that whatever happens to Rangers it will have a knock on effect on the rest of Scottish Football. Rangers will survive and move on probably damaged but move on none the less.

    But your article Jim is typical of the standard of debate on this sad topic, very poor journalism, if journalism at all.

  • Comment number 6.

    Murray has put Rangers in this awful financial position not Whyte, if the Rangers fans want to protest about anything it should be at his door.

    I have little sympathy for Rangers, through spending more money than any other Scottish club, they bought a bunch of football mercenaries adored by the Ibrox hoards, they bulldozed through the finances of Scottish football in the 1990s, flaunted their wealth and superiority towards the beggars in the East end and everyone else who were struggling. Murray tried to destroy Celtic, they failed, they also failed to win the European Cup which was also their aim, they achieved 9 in a row but the cost could have been too much because they are paying for this now.

    If my understanding is correct Rangers don't own Murray Park, they don't own the rights to their kit sales, don't own the rights to their food outlets, and now they don't own the rights to their ticket sales for the foreseeable future.

    What interests me is if Rangers do go into administration or even worse liquidation, can Whyte as the only secured creditor, keep Ibrox and what star players are left? Is there any situation that Ibrox will have to be sold and a fire sale of Davis, Naismith etc.. made?

    As a Celtic fan I have some humility and sympathy to my fellow man, I want Rangers to survive, but on a realistic financial footing, they can then watch Celtic under Lennon go for 10 in a row and I will die happy.

  • Comment number 7.

    Also Jim it's a joke hearing Rangers fans say the BBC are biased, they are now at last simply doing to Rangers, asking fair queastions, that they do to every other Scottish team, and remember the Murray influence over our media is fading.

    Rangers fans simply don't like the fact that out of desperation, because Murray left them in such a terrible position, they turned to the only option availible Whyte with his dodgy business past!

  • Comment number 8.

    Misplaced Jim. The horse in this case has already bolted. David Murray was the man to ask questions about not their fans who were happy enough in the good times to be winning trophies and lauding it over everyone else as all fans do. Craig Whyte is just in the door but sadly Sir David (the financial genius) has left this club in a mess and the fans will just have to get used to the boot being on the other foot for a wee while. Happens at most football clubs so why not Rangers?

    Am I the only one who questions the lack of proper critical questions that are never addressed to those previous directors at Ibrox who are continually in media outlets questioning Whyte and yet they were the ones who presided over this tip into the abyss? Whatever else he is responsible for, Whyte is not responsible for the current mess.

    Rangers will survive but they will have to get used to less success on the park.

    My worry is that a one horse league is not attractive to anyone. And it will be a one horse league, just as uncompetitive as it was before when Rangers were doing mostly all of the big spending. The non-OF clubs might get more joy going to Ibrox and have a great shot at 2nd, though I'm not sure that will be a big attraction given that no one has any money to spend anyway.

    And btw the post of #5 did not deserve to be moderated!

  • Comment number 9.

    Jim Spence, Welcome back, again too long a gap between blogs but at least this one's a meaty subject.

    I think you answered your own question in a way.
    Rangers fans don't seem to have the same link to their club as Celtic, Hibs or Dundee Utd., and certainly not in the same proportionate numbers.
    I don't know why this is but that's how it loks to me.

    In my opinion there are several reasons for the fans to protest.

    (1) The tax case
    (2) The current running of the club
    (3) The abysmal performances on the pitch

    (1) Murray and his merry band of yes men started the rot by overspending money the
    club didn't have and appeared to be under the impression that their "chums" at the
    bank would never ask for repayment.
    That all changed with the collapse of HBOS and Lloyds TSB taking charge and the
    fact that MIH could no longer subsidise everything due to the economic downturn.
    He further placed the club in jeopardy by instigating payments to players, and
    perhaps executives, in a manner designed to limit tax payments despite this being
    the subject of close examination in England and Celtic, following the advice of Brian
    Quinn, declining to go down this route for fear of repercussions,shades of RSB and
    Ambro ??

    (2) Craig Whyte has revealed nothing about his finances or his long term plan for the
    club despite the many interviews he's given and despite the criticism/ scepticism
    he's faced since the takeover.
    Does he really expect supporters to believe that Ticketus loaned the very
    substantial sums they have on anticipated season ticket sales without some form
    of asset security?
    There appears to be two quite distinct problems that should worry Rangers fans,
    i.e. HMRC tax case and the fact that Whyte says there is a £10M shortfall
    between income and expenditure before anything else happens. In fact that gap
    has now increased due to the lastest Ticketus repayment scheme to £18M p.a.
    I would certainly not be considering buying a season ticket for Ibrox without a
    great deal more information from the owner who appears to be weighing up the
    choices of administration or liquidation.
    Either way it appears that Whyte will emerge a winner.

    (3) Despite the off field problems there is no excuse

  • Comment number 10.

    And before we hear that the BBC pay too much attention to Whyte, they did a similar expose on Romanov at Hearts. In the case of Rangers, the real target of their attention should have been the business dealings of David Murray who imo got a serious lack of proper media attention and scrutiny.

  • Comment number 11.

    Another massive gap between your blogs !
    Seeing as there is only your blog which is Scottish - Why ?

    The new sports format is poor and even more English biased. The 'fixtures' gives you English fixtures and if that's not enough we're blessed with the English Premier League table on the main football page.
    When will the BBC realise that it collectes money from all of the UK ?

    With regards to the article, Rangers and Celtic fans are not the most loyal fans in the world. Never have been. No4 says it perfectly.

    Back to what I started with - Are the BBC saving money on Scottish blogs ?
    Are you permitted to answer Jim ?

  • Comment number 12.

    As it appears my post #9 was cut short, I'll try again with point 3.

    3. Despite the off field problems there is no excuse for the abysmal showing on
    sunday. Taking nothing away from Utd. who were far superior and a joy to watch,
    the failure of the manager to rouse the team in the second half when
    despite having the bulk of possession they failed to mount any threat and the
    players' performance was a disgrace. They are still well paid for what they do.

  • Comment number 13.

    #11 I agree entirely about the blogs and recently wrote to BBC to complain.
    Guess what? They have failed to respond and it's now been 3 weeks, despite
    their hope to reply within 10 working days , and I've now complained about that
    as well!!
    Looks like I'll have to escalate my complaints, suggest you do likewise otherwise
    this blog will disappear.

  • Comment number 14.

    @8

    I don't think David Murray had the money to get them out of this, hence the sale.

    Like Hearts and other teams financed by rich owners, if the owners lose interest or leave with the club not able to run viably on its own then they will go bust. Lucky for Hearts that the bank supporting them is also run by the same guy. The board can't stop this while the owner is the majority shareholder and why would they when everything seems just fine?

    The sale appears to have been pushed through by Lloyds who had lost enough money and didn't want to lose any more. It's been sold to a man who many fear is an asset-stripper (although this is not proven to my knowledge) who will leave no worse off himself but with Glasgow Rangers gone.

    Faced with this possible outcome Jim's point is that maybe it would be better for the Gers fans to get organised and buy back the club before there is no club left.

  • Comment number 15.

    Rangers are in a mess and as a fan I fear for their future.
    However the future for both halves of the Old Firm is pretty bleak as I can only see their revenues drying up in the future. They won't be invited to the EPL or any other league; and they will have less euro football because of the extra qualifying rounds.
    This isn't the end of the world, but it will put off a majority of their fans who are, lets be honest, glory hunters.
    So I predict you will see the crowds dwindling for both halves as the fans turn to the EPL (you can see this now in NI and RI where new generations of fans support EPL teams rather the OF).
    If you take this view to it's natural conclusion I'd say that in about 5-10 years Scottish league football, including the OF, will be similar to what the NI league is now.

  • Comment number 16.

    #14
    No he didn't have the money anymore but Rangers problems were well documented before Whyte stepped in the door and there was a real lack of critical attention paid to the actions of Murray. I understand some of the fears about the new owner but the irony is that he's got more media scrutiny than his predessor despite not having led the club to the brink. Administration has always been the most likely scenario.

    Maybe fans should get organised and buy the club post-administration. On the hamburg figures it should generate around £1.5m every season and this plus what TV cash they get will be their income. Can't see these figures generating much excitement at Ibrox though compared to the sugar daddy model!

  • Comment number 17.

    #14
    I think the plan is for Whyte to buy the club post administration and then watch out when houses/shops/casino? appear.

    #15 Don't drag us into this, we're solvent and well run even if we do complain about the lack of spending at times.
    Celtic will continue to prosper as long as they're winning and who says they won't get into an English league? They certainly will if Sky back it.

    It's long been the case in Ireland that fans support two teams, one in EPL and Celtic/Rangers. Any increase in interest in English teams is due to TV.

  • Comment number 18.

    Comparing Rangers fans lack of action to those of Celtic during the Celtic for change era or Hibs is a joke. As was said above what are we supposed to protest about? Are we supposed to protest against a new owner when the club was up for sale for years with no buyer? There are no buyers swooping into Scottish football. If Whyte leaves and then what? Who comes in? Or how can protesting affect the Tax case exactly? The only thing we can protest about is to get Ally out whose record is shocking no matter the circumstances at Ibrox. I'm sorry but this is a shocking piece of lazy illogical journalism. No wonder Whyte banned the BBC from Ibrox. Day in day out it's negative press stories, non stop every day. From all sides of the negative Scottish media. Unlike the English who big up their league and clubs. We put ours down non stop. Not much has changed at Ibrox from a few months ago except we lost Jelavic and results have been poor. We are all waiting on the tax case. Whyte is cost cutting as it's needed. The same issues that have been affecting the club for months if not years, but the Goldfish bowl full of journalists who having nothing else to write about are acting like chimps at a tea party. Whilst the other side is salivating at the thought of going bust and unbelievably thinking this will open the door to England - on what basis exactly? - rather than their obvious demise when Sky et al pull the plug.

  • Comment number 19.

    Celtic in the EPL? Its more pipe dream than anywhere close to a reality. Sky don't decide the clubs do and they simply don't want or need the additional financial revenues from Scotland as opposed to those in the emerging Asian markets. In addition, there would be significant legal hurdles to overcome. And even if Celtic did get there they would have to start at the bottom - buying over a club with the registration - and in the time it took them to get to the EPL, the big clubs may have disappeared into a Euro league.

    Its a pipe dream.

  • Comment number 20.

    #18
    What are you supposed to protest about?

    What did Celtic fans protest about when our owners were dragging the club towards bankruptcy?
    We let it be known we wouldn't stand back and ket it happen if there was a chance of saving it and because this support was there Fergus came in and saved the club with the help and support of the Celtic family.
    We bought the shares and put our money where our mouth was.
    That's what we did.

    It's up to Rangers fans what they do and I'll shed no tears whether it's administration or liquidation but one thing is certain, Celtic will not follow Rangers down the road to nowhere.
    Sky will pull the plug on their current deal if it's liquidation because Rangers as is won't exist so the deal must lapse.
    However do you seriously think they would pull out of Scottish football and lose the income from the millions of Celtic supporters who watch the games on TV?
    No, neither do I.

  • Comment number 21.

    3rd division for "Rangers" or whatever the new club will be called next season.

  • Comment number 22.

    I think the point that everyone is missing is that the demise of Rangers would be the beginning of the end for Scottish football. We already have most clubs in financial difficulties due to falling attendances and many clubs need the Rangers travelling support to make ends meet. The SFA are devoid of ideas on what do about the over priced, mundane football we supporters have to endure in disgusting conditions, devoid of atmosphere, due to half empty stadiums. Summer football and noisy full stadiums are needed now. Nothing is better than youngsters to create noise but our clubs make the cost for a family to attend a match only available to the middle classes. Where are tomorrows supporters being groomed. Football has left its working class roots and has priced itself out for the majority of the public. To have a future and attract kids season ticket holders should have an automatic family ticket which permits the holders previously named under 16s family free admittance. Without the developement of future support our football has no future.

  • Comment number 23.

    #8,

    No you are not the only one who questions the lack of scrutiny of the SDM era. It was worse than that. The regular competition between the BBC's Chick Young and the DR's Jim Traynor as to who was 'closer' to SDM was sycophancy at it's most sickening.

    Investigative journalism ? Had their been a fraction of the focus, now being heaped on Whyte, of the previous regime then Rangers fans may have been able to intervene earlier. As it was their club was effectively sold for a one pound note.

    The horse has bolted for Rangers fans and anyone laughing up their sleeve at the situation should wake up quickly. Scottish football with only two potential winners was hardly the best of business models. With only one winner sponsors, TV money and all the rest of it will head for the hills.

    #17. I'm pretty sure that Sky want both of the OF in England for the 'rivalry'. I don't think they would have any interest in just one.

  • Comment number 24.

    #17
    Celtic are barely solvent and their regular revenue streams are shrinking each year. Just like Rangers, Celtic's biggest income is now from player sales rather than more regular revenue streams such as gate receipts, TV, and euro money. Also the attendances and season ticket sales are down at Celtic (yes, its the same at Rangers).

    Why would Sky back either of the OF in the EPL? Do you think really think they believe they would get more viewers and advertisers if the OF played in the EPL?

    What I know is in England OF euro games are never shown live on ITV and SKY usually relegates them to Sky 4, or whatever channel they usually show 10 pin bowling on. Not indicative of 2 glamour teams, more indicative of ITV and SKY reluctantly meeting their contract obligations to show all British games.

  • Comment number 25.

    It's up to Rangers fans what they do and I'll shed no tears whether it's administration or liquidation but one thing is certain, Celtic will not follow Rangers down the road to nowhere.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well not in Scottish terms no but no option generates revenue for Celtic if Rangers go into:

    Admin: less interest from Rangers supporters in what will be a one team league but the TV deal will stay and Celtic get to beat them regularly

    Liquidation: Rangers supporters will largely be lost to Scottish football, no TV deal, all will have seriously reduced revenues in a one team league.

    There is no parachute option out of the SPL. Its a desperate fantasy.

    The Celtic board will want a 'weakened' but not 'dead' Rangers because the rivalry generates the cash. Its not all hate and bitterness!!

  • Comment number 26.

    Few points:

    It would that the previous regime used RFC as tax write off scheme for other business interests and when that business suffered - guess what

    The wilderness years will be around for a few years because the same cycle that we had in the late 70' and early 80's is upon us - you just have to look at the economy

    The likelihood of either RFC or CFC being successful in premiership is virtually nil - with the fan base that the likes of Newcastle, Leeds, Cardiff and others have they have failed to make any significant impact despite having inflated TV revenues for the last 15 years. Both of the Old Firm clubs would struggle in the Championship or indeed Division 1

  • Comment number 27.

    #20 You are completely deluded - The Celtic protest was at a time when Sky TV revenue was on the cards and Scottish TV and revenue was comparable to England, there was no EPL there was no demise of our league. There was no £49 million potential tax bill hanging over Celtic Park. Are you honestly saying 'The Celtic Family' (what a joke term) would have protested and put their money into shares when no matter what they did admin could potentially come from a £49 million pound tax bill, thus throwing their money down a drain?

    Two totally different scenarios. If this was just about raising money to keep Rangers afloat we could do that. We aren't near or in administration - YET. So our hands are tied right now, as I already explained. Until the Tax case goes either way we can't do anything. I wouldn't expect you to understand that, so continue to peddle myths. Your 'Celtic Family' were there for all to see when Tony the 4th was in charge and crowds at Celtic Park were down to less than showed up for our cup game at the weekend.

  • Comment number 28.

    Didn't take long for the blue brigade to vent their spleen did it?

    #24 Celtic barely solvent? With this level of financial expertise you must be George
    Osborne.
    As regards OF Euro games that depends which channel wins the bidding and I
    suggest you look at the schedules before you make silly comments on which
    channels Sky use.

    #27 I wasn't suggesting that Rangers fans buy shares now, that would be throwing
    money in the fire.
    At the time Fergus rode to the rescue Celtic were literally hours from bankruptcy,
    we didn't need a tax bill hanging over our head, just rank bad management over
    the years by those who were supposed to have the welfare of the club at heart.

    Rangers problems are twofold, the tax case and the shortfall between income and
    expenditure, £10M p.a. according to Whyte although it maybe more with Ticketus
    repayments.
    So whatever happens with the tax case they're still in trouble.
    You're talking mince about attendances.

    If you set aside your anti-Celtic feelings for a moment and considered exactly what the outcomes could be you would realise they are totally different.
    Administration would result in Rangers continuing, possibly with Whyte still in control but with the opportunity for others to invest so it wouldn't necessarily mean there would be no money available.
    Liquidation would mean the end of the club as it currently exists but I have no doubt that it would resurface under a slightly different name and that also would provide the opportunity for investment.

    It could also be said that your posts confirm the view quoted by Jim that "Rangers fans doff their caps to those in authority" .

    I have no doubt that Rangers will still be around in one form or another but it doesn't, nor should it, prevent me from enjoying it as those Rangers supporters who were around in our time of trouble did. It's all part of the game.

  • Comment number 29.

    #28 Firstly Sky will pull the plug on Scottish football if Rnagers go bust. They walked away with both of us in the past, remember the BBC years? That was with us both.

    Secondly I don't need a history lesson re McCann it was you who did comparing the two like the so called journalist. I was stating the two are non comparable whilst you were biggin up your 'Celtic Family'.

    Thirdly I'm quite aware of the potential outcomes. You clearly aren't as you failed to put the other situation in that we win the tax case - talk about anti Rangers feelings and bias. If we win the Tax case there will be no administration

    In all situations there will be potential for investment (long term) and that's not an issue. There will not be investment now and that's the key. Likewise we wont protest against a man who has saved us in Whyte. We all know there is a £10 million shortfall if no European football or transfer (sales) same situation for Celtic. The club will be run in the future to account for this and that's no problem for me at all.

  • Comment number 30.

    The entire Rangers story, for me at any rate, is indicative of the gloom surrounding Scottish football. To keep things OF for the sake of comparison, when Celtic were on the brink in the early 90's, we did at least see them struggle for league points, European football gained by last minute goals at other games and Celtic being generally their for the taking.

    Rangers? This is perhaps the least effective Rangers team sine their pre-Murray days, but they will comfortably claim 2nd (I think they'll run Celtic some distance first). Despite the apathy generated from scores of fans and media outlets, the sad fact is, there is no-one, other than Celtic, that could seriously, over the course of a season, take advantage.

    As far as Whyte goes, it could perhaps be time to give this guy a chance. Perhaps he is in this for the long run, and genuinely has a a battle plan. The silence is deafening from Ibrox I admit, with any kind of query regarding the finances of the club deemed an attack, but as far as Whyte's motives go, it's between him and his trusted executive team and no amount of badgering will get him to deviate from his story, which could just very well be the truth, that he want's to save the club. All the former board members don't seem to like his style or motives, but they did send the club towards and potentially into oblivion, for every action and all that.....

    Securing a loan against future season ticket sales may be folly, given that Ibrox was more than half empty in a Scottish Cup match - perhaps a protest of sorts, albeit counter productive to their particular plight, but with matches being so expensive (Credit Cards from a December splurge to pay), the weather not too friendly in February (Drab) and the overall plight of the club, you can't blame people for staying away.

    There will be soon, the Rangers apotheosis in all of the financial wrangling, but when all is said and done, the only way they won't finish in the top two, is if someone locks the gates.

  • Comment number 31.

    "If my understanding is correct Rangers don't own Murray Park". (#6)

    Your understanding is wrong.

    As for the attendance on Sunday it was no different from it would have been in previous seasons given the circumstances (cup game, not on season ticket, 12:15 on a Sunday, cold weather, recession, game on TV).

    Much is made of pre-Souness attendances but what is invariably overlooked is that, while there were some low attendances, taken over the three seasons immediately before Souness came in Rangers had the highest average attendances in the league.

  • Comment number 32.

    Can anyone else tell me why there is all the media driven hysteria about the crowd size? Could it be the crisis that the club are in? Could it be just the world economic downturn? Or maybe it’s the fact that the game was shown live on the BBC, no Sky subscription involved or a trip to the pub, it was on a Sunday with a 12:15 kick-off and it wasn’t included in the season ticket price. Could be a clue there but nobody seemed to pick it up. Let’s look at “Rangers in crisis” crowds. Rangers have had the spectre of administration hanging over them from day 1 of season 2011 - 2012 but have an average home attendance of 45,852 compared to Celtic’s 49,426. Now based on ground capacity that’s 90% and 81%, so which club has an issue with low attendance? Ranger’s last home game against Hibs in the SPL had 44,057 and the one before against Aberdeen 46,648. Word to the media let’s not knee jerk because of one low attendance. Think back a couple of seasons when Rangers played Kilmarnock at Ibrox on a Monday 10th January 2010. Monday night, live on the BBC, not included in the season ticket price, around 12,000 fans turned up on the night. Can you see a pattern forming here? Stop trying to generate stories where there aren’t any. Yes the club is going through a very bad time all the fans know it but talk about a non story.

  • Comment number 33.

    Castle says (#18) "Not much has changed at Ibrox from a few months ago except we lost Jelavic and results have been poor."

    And that doesn't make you want to protest?

    "But who do we protest to?" Who cares? Did the Occupy people choose a specific target? Did the Egyptians? The Libyans? The Syrians?

    Where's the passion!?! The resignation and apathy are deafening.

  • Comment number 34.

    # 28,

    I had you down as one of the more considered commentators. Both of our clubs have peeked over the edge but survived. I cannot relate to your last paragraph. Your slip is showing !

    I take no pleasure in the demise of RFC. You, and others on this blog, expose why the rest of Scotland are embarrassed by such comment. It is no part of my game !

  • Comment number 35.

    What exactly would you like us to do in a protest. Demand the sacking of the manager & resignation of the chairman & board. Maybe withdraw our support, refuse to buy merchandise & season tickets. These are different times & circumstances, potential buyers are not out there. The club is in trouble, do you want us to create more. It's not complacency or lack of feeling, and certainly not " doffing of the cap ". We are realists, we can't change what as been done, and certainly not what happens next. The glory hunters will no doubt drift away, but the true fans will support the club through hard times as well as good. Even if we are resurrected as Govan Athletic, might be good to get back to basics.

  • Comment number 36.

    Another point, no Rangers = no OF = no real TV interest. No 1,000's of glory hunters twice a season at second tier SPL clubs. So think before you cheer or gloat over our problems. The SPL, and every clubs chairman & board, don't want but need Rangers. We cease to exist, those glory hunters aren't going to switch to the Arabs, Hibs or Hearts. Just more Man U & Barcelona shirts coming soon to your town.

  • Comment number 37.

    Oi moderator do you want another hour overtime? This is pathetic, too busy in England. or as some mentioned already. Scotland blog is understaffed, underfunded, & trying to disinterest newcomers - so it can be shut down.

  • Comment number 38.

    Rubbish...45 minutes and post still not up...must try harder!

  • Comment number 39.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 40.

    What interests me is if Rangers do go into administration or even worse liquidation, can Whyte as the only secured creditor, keep Ibrox and what star players are left? Is there any situation that Ibrox will have to be sold and a fire sale of Davis, Naismith etc.. made?
    -----------------------------------------

    If they go into admin an independent administrator is appointed and Whyte loses 'control' of the club but retains status as the secured creditor. They won't lose their ground (though perhaps they may lose direct control over this to people already on the board!) because the aim is not to kill but to cure. The most likely scenario, depending on the scale of the debt, is that more players will be sold and staff shed.

    The crucial issue is getting a creditors agreement. The likelihood is that Rangers and HMRC will probably do a deal. The big rumour is that neither are sure of winning their case. The latter have discretion to waive the penalty and that could reduce the alleged £49m debt significantly. Depends what the size of the Rangers contingency fund is and whether the Ticketus monies are being used for this AND their operating costs.

    My feeling is that Whyte may be a front for other interests. And even if not the carcass of this club will be picked up again for peanuts by someone else and restructured through some investment.

  • Comment number 41.

    I don't buy into this argument that Scottish football needs a strong Rangers, or a strong Celtic for that matter. In fact one could argue that some of the problems Scottish Football as whole face are because Celtic & Rangers are too strong.

    Scotland is still a nation that loves football. If Rangers were to go completely out of business the league would adapt. The other clubs won't suddenly go to the wall because there is no Rangers or no 4 OF games on sky. Of course there would be a period of rebalancing but life would go on and who's to say in a decade or so the league would not be better without the unhealthy obsession with the OF.

    Youth coaching is putting the emphasis much more on skills and technique, improving the quality of young players coming up through the ranks. We need this more than the 4 old firm games a season.

  • Comment number 42.

    I don't think Craig Whyte is to blame here, and looking at it, it would seem admin and wiping out their debt (such a classy way to do things) is the only real option. What is now needed is some revision of the record books. All those seasons where Rangers were paying players in a naughty way need an asterix. *Rangers couldn't actually afford these players so this title should be considered tainted.

    I think i quite like the idea of Rangers going into admin. this could be a lovely little kickstart for the rest of SCOTTISH football. The voting issue is 11 - 1. Rangers as is no longer exist, surely the other 10 teams could then force the changes that SCOTTISH football needs (Revenue distribution, Salary Capping, Voting rules within the league). Rangers come back to a fairer league, Celtic are pegged back, the rest of the SCOTTISH teams begin to grow again.

    #41 is right. The league needs rebalanced, RanTic have the issue decided before kick off on day 1. Time for some logic to be applied to this league.

  • Comment number 43.

    #42 If Rangers win the tax case, how are any titles tainted? If paying players in this way was not illegal at the time, then what is your point?

    Do any Celtic fans really think that the EPL will welcome them with open arms, especially after the poppygate banner? Do they really think that an English league will welcome their "folk songs" and other nonsense?

  • Comment number 44.

    @#42....Good shout Tangerine Scott. Totally agree - Scottish football has been in need of drastic reform for years. We seem to excel as a nation in identifying our flaws and then discussing them for an eternity. This might be what we need to actually make some changes to our game.

    Everyone in the media seems to agree that the demise of RFC would be catastrophic for Scottish football as a whole. It would be catastrophic for Rangers (and perhaps the Old Firm) but NOT for all the "wee diddy" teams who have had a raw deal from the Old Firm for years. This might allow the smaller teams to redress the balance to some extent.

    I still find it totally absurd when I hear complaints from the Old Firm (fans and employees alike) about the lack of competition in Scottish football being the reason for their inability to compete in Europe, whilst at the same time happily suppressing the competition by insisting on a disproportionate share of the TV revenue which is then used to sign up the wee teams’ top players! It’s a vicious circle which needs to be broken. Unfortunately, something drastic needs to happen before it ever will.

  • Comment number 45.

    I agree with the many posters on here who suggest that the real root of Rangers problems lies at the door of Sir David Murray.

    However this must inevitably lead onto a perectly reasonable question for the BBC. Why when interviewing those involved in the previous regime, like Alistair Johnson for example are no questions asked about why we got into the mess?

    What was Donald Muir's role on the Board? These guys know a lot that will eventually come out but I can't understand why the BBC won't ask any awkward questions of these people yet pursue Craig Whyte with venom. Why not persue Martin Bain and ask him to justify the huge pay and bonuses he appears to have awarded himself?

    As to the many Celtic fans gloating, fair enought gloat. But think 5 years forward when Sky don't want to know, when the European coefficient means we have less CL opportunties than at present and what that will mean for your club.

    The riches of the EPL are a pipe dream, there is no reason for them to want any Scottish team. Simply put they don't need us. Sky only want the old firm games, that is obvious, if they are uncompetitive then they will drop Scottish football completely.

  • Comment number 46.

    #44, What proportion of the OF's turnover do you think is TV money?
    For the only figures that I have in 2007/08, the turnover for Celtic was ~£72M, only ~£2M of the that was from TV.
    If you wamt fairness the clubs should be able to control their own TV rights, then the OF might get ~£5M each and the rest can cry like babies

  • Comment number 47.

    Another interesting aspect if Rangers go into insolvent liquidation is that Mr Murray would likely find himself the subject of an action for wrongful trading brought by the Liquidator on behalf of the creditors…until then, he can hide behind the corporate veil to absolve himself of any personal culpability.

  • Comment number 48.

    #13 morbhoy

    Mate you're deluded if you think Jim particularly cares about these blogs. It's 5 minutes work - probably spoken to a notary who types it up. Don't get me wrong - I like the guy!! It's just pretty apparent that he is either being restricted, is too busy or can't really be that bothered anymore. When was the last time he answered a question? (incidently I'd love him to tell me to shut up).
    Very funny that you're now complaining about a complaint. They won't do anything at all. The BBC website changes were made entirely without consultation of us - the users so they'll always ride roughshod. Again, I don't hate the BBC - in fact I kind of love them - but they are treating me badly right now. Like when you go out with that incredibly hot girl that doesn't treat you well but you keep going back 'cos she's hot but it's actually an abusive relationship if you look at it objectively? That old chestnut?

    Also, if the BBC truely gave us what we wanted we'd be allowed to comment on Chicks blogs. Remember THAT free-for-all? I think it was the funniest blog I ever read. 50 percent of post being moderated! And you imagine Chick thinking - "yeah, I'm a pretty well liked guy, bit of a card but the public love that stuff right?" Cue hate filled diatribes - all anti Chick in their outlook. Again, I don't hate the guy but...

    Oh, and as for Rangers... the saddest thing is that Celtic will run away with everything. Incidently - how many players have Celtic got on the books - it's mental!!! If it wasn't for Rangers cataclysmic demise I'd suggest closer scrutiny of Celtic's appallingly wasteful transfer policy. I'm a fan but look at the figures and who's there. Lennon has just spent and spent - ally this with Rangers death and eventually you'll get a league title I suppose. But they could be next if they keep overspending which they are clearly currently doing.

    Anyway, sorry, yeah Rangers: Sir David Murray should face the flack - not Whyte. However you feel the league needs them in some capacity though I'm sure Celtic will find a few thousand more fans if Rangers continue to collapse. Hell, I was a Celtic fan in the 60's - Rangers fan in the early 90's and back to Celtic again.

  • Comment number 49.

    @#46 - look at the English Premier League as an example - there is an even split of television revenue amongst all the teams in the league, despite the top 6 teams being the undoubted star attraction.

    Like you say, even if you take the TV revenue out of the equation, your turnover would still dwarve that of the other SPL clubs (thanks to advertising, merchanides, season ticket sales, etc).

    So why the need to squeeze the other teams for every penny of TV money?

    And if TV revenue is split according to fan base, why are the likes of Hearts, Dundee United and Aberdeen not getting a larger share of TV revenue than the likes of Inverness Caley and Hamilton Accies?

  • Comment number 50.

    I make no apologies for enjoying the situation Rangers find themselves in, they brought it upon themselves largely by mismanagement but it doesn't mean the end of Scottish football nor does it mean that they should be "saved" for the greater good.
    The law is the law and rules are rules and both should be administered without exception.

    #34
    I'm afraid you have misread my last paragraph if that's what you think.
    I stated that, in my opinion, Rangers will still be around in one form or another, that hardly constitutes celebrating their demise.
    I do feel entitled to have a laugh at their expense just as they did when Celtic were in dire financial straits and that is part of football. My many Rangers supporting friends were quick to dish it out when it was our turn in the barrel.
    I also stated, future investment whether it be after administration or liquidation, should see the club bounce back. To what level will depend on exactly how much is invested.

    Instead of directing their anger at Celtic supporters and anyone who appears to criticise their club perhaps this is the time when Rangers fans should be thinking of buying into the club ( after this is sorted) and making their voice heard in future.
    That is the way forward for all clubs in my opinion.

  • Comment number 51.

    #46 apologies in advance for being off topic however if the TV money was only £2m why then is league reconstruction / expansion off the table because of TV demands for 4 OF matches ?

  • Comment number 52.

    #48

    Loved your post my friend although I think you were probably a bit hard on Jim Spence.
    I agree that the treatment of Scottish football fans by BBC online is appalling and I would like more opportunity to respond, certainly to Chick Young, and engage in debate with others but it would seem that the only way to achieve this is to complain and that I will continue to do, someone will have to reply eventually !!

    The problem with Celtic transfer policy is we have too many on long contracts and they won't get the same deal elsewhere so are content to stay but Lennon will weed them out sooner rather than later.

    As I've said Rangers will still be around for a long time yet no matter what happens but I hope you stay with Celtic for good this time, you know it makes sense !!

  • Comment number 53.

    #49, for the record, TV revenue isn't split according to fan base. It's split according to league position at the end of the season.

    So, for example, Hearts and Dundee United would have received a significantly larger share last season than Hamilton.

    One key point is that the system is set up so that whoever finishes in the top two positions benefit to a larger extent, although the relatively modest sums involved mean the extent to which they benefit is limited. As other posters have pointed out, the vast difference in income comes from the fact that Rangers and Celtic both get 45,000-odd fans through the gates each week (and sponsorship).

    Cheers

  • Comment number 54.

    #42
    Ironically your best bet for non-OF teams is probably that they get liquidated. Celtic's economic differential would be cut back quite drastically but only enough for those teams that are solvent. The debt-ridden will be out of pocket for even longer!If they go into Administration, they will bounce back after a couple of lean years but Celtic will economically dominate: though if Celtic fail to win the title this year especially in these circumstances, their management team should give up. Celtic have a huge squad to win a poor league with only one 'wounded' competitor in it. The difference doesn't yet merit the term 'invincibles'!!

    And if you think it will be 10-1 you are sorely mistaken in the view that the 10 will have similar interests on every issue. TV revenue is not big enough to damage Celtic but it should be equally distributed Iagree.

    #50
    I don't think they are directing their anger at Celtic supporters at all, its been a fairly friendly blog. Well no more than you are directing your gloating towards them! And again, no one is asking for the law to be bent or rules not to be applied, you are making this up.

  • Comment number 55.

    To answer Jim's main point in the blog. the big problem with Rangers is that there is no leader with big pockets to coalesce round. United had Eddie Thompson, Hibs Tom Farmer, Celtic Fergus McCann. All well known and respected businessmen. It could be that once the tax issue is resolved some guys will come out of the woodwork, but if I were a Rangers fan, really not sure I could see what good complaining would do.
    One thing that I would note is that refusing to talk to the BBC isnt helping wether they feel justified or not. Even Alex Ferguson burried the hatchet with them, surely Rangers should do so as well.
    NB fantastic performance by my team on Sunday, but Rangers were poor, no doubt about it.

  • Comment number 56.

    #51, the league reconstruction / expansion would be to imporove the game not just to get a TV deal.
    Fans want a league of 16/18 teams
    It will not happen because Sky want the 4 OF games and the SPL will always bottle it

    So, yes you are correct, imo

  • Comment number 57.

    Rob04 - One of my favourite below the line contributors.
    I've espoused my socialist league theories many times in the past. I watch alot of NFL. That seems to me to be a quite balanced league. All the merch is divided up equally, all the ticket sales, all the tv. The only thing that clubs can get over and above is hospitality and corporate seats. A salary cap based on an 60% of average league turnvoer is the best bet. Like baseball it needs a drop off point too, clubs get fined if they don't spend a certain amout. This way Celtic and Rangers will still make money, heck loads of money because they'll fill their corporate seats every week and will still be getting a big chunk of ticket cash but their wages will be tied down to other smaller clubs levels. Everyone is a winner.
    I know, mump moan whine, i don't want to subsidise a smaller club. Hard lines, we all want competition, Rangers subsidise United subsidise Ayr subsidise Dundee. See All the clubs are happy. Everyone now has a fairer system.

    Rob, i understand that the clubs at the fatter end of the table might not want to share but why can't we sit and talk about truly socialist football?

  • Comment number 58.

    I think it comes down to success. Despite financial mismanagement at the club, Rangers fans have had success during this time. Celtic, Hibs & Dundee Utd were all dealing with poor running of their clubs, as well as a lack of success on the park.

    If it looks like this success is disappearing then Rangers fan will probably speak up. I think, in terms of fan-led buyouts/changes of owners, it'll only happen once the tax case is done.

  • Comment number 59.

    Stopped reading the comments after morbhoy (#9) wrote...

    "Rangers fans don't seem to have the same link to their club as Celtic, Hibs or Dundee Utd., and certainly not in the same proportionate numbers.
    I don't know why this is but that's how it loks to me."

    A farce of a statement! Rangers consistently fill a higher proportion of Ibrox than ANY other SPL club does for home games and the Rangers support consistently travel in greater numbers than any other travelling support in Scotland to watch away games.

    Because Rangers fans don't believe car park protests in the style of cel'ic 'sack the board' or post Ross County defeat will bring any positive resolution, the Rangers fans don't have the same link to their club?! Farcical!

  • Comment number 60.

    Rangers fans should be demanding a meeting between Craig Whyte and a representative of the supporters groups (with an accountant present) to ask all those pertinent questions about the financial situation: no filing of accounts, where is the Ticketus money going, etc.

    A protest could take the form of banners stating 'We Want Answers', 'Where Has the Money Gone?', etc.

  • Comment number 61.

    #46 The new TV deal is 80m over 5 years with the OF reportedly getting 50m of that between them so that works out at around £5m a season each. Also shirt sponsorhip deals, stadium advertising include clauses about appearing on TV, so TV deals stretch way beyond the actual cash generated.

    Oh and also the new contract with Sky specifies that the old firm play each other 4 times a year.

  • Comment number 62.

    #61, I believe the teams that finish in the top two places in the SPL receive 36% of SPL money between them. Which would mean - if it was Celtic and Rangers in these positions - their combined share would be £28.8m (out of £80m TV money), averaging at just under £3m a season each (and, of course, it's more for whoever comes first than the second placed team).

  • Comment number 63.

    #57
    Tangerine: as long as a more socialist league did not mean every team finishes equally in exactly the same place every year and every match ended in a draw so as to not offend anyone! :)

    But I agree with your point about an even distribution of TV revenues. They should be equally distributed. The OF will make more TV appearances anyway because they have a bigger audience share to keep their sponsors happy.

    #60

    If I were a Rangers fan, my choice of banner would be 'Don't Pick Kirk Broadfoot For the First Team'!

  • Comment number 64.

    #61, I was quoting the 2008 figures. No way do we get £5M/year from Sky
    #62 looks accurate.
    If the Sky deal fell through, Celtic would still generate other media revenue last year the total was ~£14M

  • Comment number 65.

    # 54 My point was that any anger felt by Rangers fans would be better directed
    towards those who caused their club to end up in this situation.
    Perhaps you could point out where I said anyone on here had asked for the
    rules to be circumvented.

    #59 Just because you don't like it doesn't mean I'm not entitled to my opinion and
    that question was what the blog was about.

  • Comment number 66.

    #63 Yes, the Broadfoot banner would be a good one too. I laughed when I saw the Record headline yesterday about the 'good news' of Broadfoot and some bloke called Kane Hemmings coming back from injury.

  • Comment number 67.

    morbhoy #65 Of course you're entitled to your opinion but if you want anyone to take it seriously, provide some justification!

    You seem to draw the conclusion that Rangers fans don't care about their club as much as some other fans care about theirs because the Rangers fans are protesting in the car park, is that your argument?

    If Rangers fans don't care to the same extent as others why do they consistently travel in greater numbers to away games for example?

    The only conclusion I can reach is that you've either not fully thought through the facts before reaching your conclusion or you're deliberately trying to wind up Rangers fans, either way you're not worth wasting time on.

  • Comment number 68.

    #morbhoy

    Yeah I was probably harsh on Jim - I think he's totally sound, I'm just trying to provoke a response. Seriously, if you look objectively this is far and away the best blog in terms of a) Jim's pertinant, no-nonsense topics and importantly b) the quality of posting which is consistantly superb. Surprisingly so particularly compared with say, the blogs on the Premiere league, which are just appalling (lack of objectivity, trolling, flame wars, etc.)

    I think it's 'cos I like his blog so much that Jim's apparent apathy to it has upset me so. Also, I slept terribly.

  • Comment number 69.

    Rangers' liquidation - or even just the fear of it - could conceivably be a good thing for Scottish Football.

    The 11-1 majority system must end - and with the old firm duopoly broken we will have other clubs profiting in Rangers' place. Hopefully they will be smart enough to see that voting through a change in our league setup and division of finances is a necessity.

    Of course, what's likely to happen is either a share option or Romanov changing tack after spying his opportunity to get Hearts in where the 'Gers were.

  • Comment number 70.

    #68 I believe that the issue Jim may have is that his blog is only supposed to cover life outside the OF in Scottish football.

    Clearly, he's being asked to write about something else now - and it might just be because the beeb are pretty obviously scaling back their coverage of the game up here.

    Some protest, in this issue, might well be helpful!

  • Comment number 71.

    #65
    Perhaps you could point out where I said anyone on here had asked for the
    rules to be circumvented.
    -----------------------------------
    #50
    nor does it mean that they should be "saved" for the greater good.
    The law is the law and rules are rules and both should be administered without exception.
    ------------------------

    Well given that you were the only one who mentioned it and queried something that hadn't even come up

    rollseyes!

  • Comment number 72.

    I believe that the issue Jim may have is that his blog is only supposed to cover life outside the OF in Scottish football.
    -----------

    I'm sure there are no restrictions on Jim's taste buds, or even on what he blogs about!

  • Comment number 73.

    #71 I obviously misread your post and thought that you were implying that I had
    accused some on here of saying Rangers should be "saved" when I was doing
    no such thing.
    You may not have read any other forums or newspaper comments columns
    recently but thay are full of posts from people, not all claiming to be Rangers
    fans, stating that for the good of Scottish football Rangers should not be
    "allowed" to disappear even if liquidated and that was the reason for my
    remarks.
    My apologies for causing your eyes to roll !!

    I still reserve the right to enjoy their predicament and, if you read my posts, have consistently said that I believe they will be around when the dust has settled so I don't really see any problem.

  • Comment number 74.

    #68 DoubleDragBack
    Hope you sleep better tonight, write and complain and see if you get the same non-response that I did.
    Perhaps we should aim for an online petition to parliament, only need 100,000 signatures and they have to consider it, "We are all Jim Spence" would make a good title.

  • Comment number 75.

    Back in the early eighties both Celticv and Rangers were both under financed, though it will take a lot for the smaller teams to take on the new firm role it is certainly looking likely as being possible. It is just another turning of the tide and I have no doubt that both Rangers and Celtic will dominate, but overall for Scottish football it is not a death nail but a transition. Both Rangers and Celtic will have competition which is not a bad thing. Remember last time the new firm played in Europe they did us proud.
    Lack of talent in Scottish football a major problem though, hard another to see Stevie Archibald, Gordon Strachan or a Paul Sturrock but lets not give up hope!
    Three or or four years time will tell, just lets hope more kids start playing football in the parks, enough play then talent will come.
    Doubt we will win the world cup as a nation, but at least have more than two or three quality players would help.

  • Comment number 76.

    Erm, to the 'Diddy Team's Fans' moaning about the OF taking all the money (boo hoo, cry, cry)

    Firstly the English league is not split equally as was posted on here. It's split per position in England the same as Scotland. The only time the get an equal cut its through the EPL's foreign contracts.

    Secondly it was all the Diddy teams fault that we're all in this mess. Years ago we were offered £18 million a year off of Sky, not much off the EPL at the time and what happened? Oh, that right every club bar the OF knocked it back to make their own channel and what happened to that brainwave? The OF wanted to take the Sky deal. The TV failed we went back to Sky who told us to do one and we ended up with the odd game on the BBC. Then we went to Setanta for peanuts.

    After the end of the Setanta deal we were offered another improved deal by Sky. Then a new bigger deal by Setanta. Let me remind you what happened - all the non OF Diddy Clubs voted for Setanta and the OF voted for Sky. We went to Setanta and they went bust!!!!! So we went back to Sky who offered much less than before with ESPN.

    The failure of the league is down to the "Pyoor me, pyoor me. Them big bad nasty OF so they ur" Diddy teams!!!!

  • Comment number 77.

    #60, Rangers fans' groups have met and questioned Craig Whyte on various occasions, most recently a couple of nights ago. Mr Whyte has answered the fans' questions, just as he has answered questions in a number of newspaper interviews. Now, he might be telling porkies but it's very difficult for anyone who doesn't have access to the private business of Mr Whyte and the club to know that for sure.

  • Comment number 78.

    jim its not a matter of if but when administration occurs ibrox way and they will want to go into administration rather than liquidation- there is a huge difference!! what gets me in all this is the previous regimes use of this ebt scheme whether legal or not is ridiculous. c 45k teddy bears turned up every 2nd week for ten years either by season ticket or pay at the gate the vast majority of whom would pay their slab of income tax yet the powers at brox were running the numbers to ensure those they watched running around in blue got their weekly paypacket on a gross basis!!!! how much lower would my or every hamish, jock or moiras tax bill be if all the" aye ready " boys had paid their slab of tax.

  • Comment number 79.

    #73 Morbhoy is spot on -

    You may not have read any other forums or newspaper comments columns
    recently but thay are full of posts from people, not all claiming to be Rangers
    fans, stating that for the good of Scottish football Rangers should not be
    "allowed" to disappear even if liquidated and that was the reason for my
    remarks.

    There are many outside Rangers, and the public eye, who don't want the worst to happen. They fear the financial domino effect, it's not quite RBS or Greece, but many within SFA, broadcasting & political areas fear the consequences.
    Why is it Hearts get final warning every year of a windup order from HMRC, then its paid. Whilst this case just drags on & on & on. If there's a case to answer, get it started. Doubt taxman would allow any Rangers fan so much time to pay his taxes.

  • Comment number 80.

    I couldnae afford my season tickets this season golf & footy.
    I pick my gemmes noo, and hae the odd skite oh the wee baa!
    Times are hard fir evrybuddy but eh pyed meh taxes on time,JIST!!!
    Fitbaa clubs have got awa wee murder fir ages no pying loads oh people, tae mak share the overpyed players wir happy.
    It hud tae happen sometime,things catchin up on ane oh the big anes.
    I huv read ah the blogs tnite but on a lighter note,i was well cheered up by former N.Ireland center Gerry Armstrongs comments at the Barca v Valencia match.
    Regardin the pace oh Alexis fae Barca,Gerry says, he,s started a YARD behind, but managed tae get level eftir aboot 5 or 6 METERS!!!!!

  • Comment number 81.

    Oi youse arabarber.
    Ye nae ken ar gab Anglo, sentence after sentence is filled with Sass words & phrases. "afford my season ticket" - "times are hard" -"happen sometime"- "I was well cheered up". Last is most damning of all. sounds like a shirt lifter. Dialect you use seems Anglo, nae Weegie ar burgher ar Highland. Awaes failte.

  • Comment number 82.

    What exactly can Rangers fans protest about?
    The tax case? The regime that used this EBT scheme that is in question is no longer at the club, the tax advisors who made the advise have gone out of business. Nobody to protest to!

    The current board? Having been in place less than a year it's too early to judge them. We could protest about the books not being published but it's perfectly understandable as to why. Lack of clarity on plans? again understandable given that there are people who would work against such plans, it's the nature of rivalry.

    Performances on the pitch? This is one where some may think there's cause for protest as the performances have been poor and consistently so but you need to give a new manager time and some appreciation of the weakened squad he has to work with, lets face it being forced to turn to Little and Kerkar to save a cup tie is not enspiring. You also have to wonder who exactly would replace the manager if was ousted given the clouds hanging over the club?

  • Comment number 83.

    As for celtic fans laughing at Rangers demise, be careful what you wish for.
    celtic could cope with the lack of tv money and lack of league sponsorship money but the real hit will be the players, what quality player in his right mind would play/stay in a one team league. celtic may dominate scottish football without Rangers but the quality on show at celtic park would inevitably decline and would they really continue to fill the stadium with this decline? Both rangers and celtic's attendences suffer when the product on the park drops in quality.

  • Comment number 84.

    What exactly does Jim want Rangers fans to protest against? If Whyte is believed, they are running at an operating loss of £10 milion per year and mortgaging season ticket revenue years ahead just to pay wages and that is before we even start to think about the impending tax bill. Frankly the protests should have taken place 10 years ago when Murray and his friend Dick went on their reckless spending spree. There is no point in protesting against what has already happened and simply adding to their woes. The club is clearly insolvent and the only solution is to find a Mr Moneybags (unliklely) or go into liquidation and start again.

  • Comment number 85.

    Why does the BBC Scotland Sport homepage dedicate half the page to the 'breaking news' (24 hours later...) of Fabio Capello resigning from some wee diddy team. At least, they must be a wee diddy team, cause I've never heard of a Team in Scotland called 'england'?

  • Comment number 86.

    #81/5th amendment,

    Seems yir still feeling the blues eftir the tangerine tankin on sunday????
    Ehm here fir a laf maist oh the time,cos thats whit oor gemme has become.
    So whit if i mix n match wee a bit oh meh dundonian slang, auld scots and proper english.Only a bit oh fun wee the likes oh tamslaver etc.Talking oh english, your phrase in blog 35.We can`t change what AS been done???? Sounds like a morris dancer haen a pint doon the pub wee ARRY!!!!!!!
    Its a bit oh fun we tomslaver among others.

  • Comment number 87.

    #85
    At least capello learned the language!!!!
    The next manager might only work in numbers????

  • Comment number 88.

    "The club is clearly insolvent and the only solution is to find a Mr Moneybags (unliklely) or go into liquidation and start again."

    There is no white knight coming so to me, the only solution is a collective input from fans. 200,000 went to Manchester, which equates to just £250 per head to save our club, not a lot really. But will something like this ever come to fruition? That is the question I think Jim is asking.

    I'd rather see a proactive approach with a back up plan should the worse case happen. A reaction after the tax case settles may mean not enough time to get something started.

  • Comment number 89.

    As an Aberdeen fan in the central belt, and an avid hater of anything to do with rangers football club. Some where deep in my football heart i actually do feel sorry for the majority of rangers fans.

    But the buck stops with Rangers buying the SPL title by picking and buying players from other teams when they raise their game against them. The fact we watched all through the 90s and 00's of conspiracy theories of its the SPL & rangers against anything to do with Catholics in this country.

    Im sure 80% that turn up for home games are bigoted biased and deeply entrenched with sectarianism so much is it in evidence at ibrox i would never set foot in that stadium again. the other 20% are the real rangers fans, who like i love the banter and the rivialry between teams that doesnt have to go down to the sewers level.

    In saying all this, my gut feeling on this issue is simple, Whyte will allow rangers to go into administration and to be sold off. All it needs is to hold a retainer on the football name open a new stadium in England somewhere call it Rangers football PLC or something daft and start from scratch in the English 3rd division.

    When this happens I am sure our SPL will flourish and teams out with the old firm would get more £££ to help try to compete against celtic.

  • Comment number 90.

    Rob04 You are right, there are no restrictions on what I write about, so let's clear that up before the conspiracy theorists have a field day.

  • Comment number 91.

    At long last, I am hearing comments from intelligent Rangers and Celtic supporters. The facts are simple, the dire financial situation has been caused by the previous administration, most of whom seem to be passing the buck on to Graig Whyte who has been in position for a few months. The law is also simple, HMRC can apportion blame and penalties on all directors who have been involved since the offence first took place, not just the current owners so Murray, bain and company should be getting very concerned and that is why they are passing the buck.
    Whyte is guilty of only one thing...not making the current situation transparent to the fans, his own words are "playing things close to my chest", that is not the way to get the fans on your side. Let them know the full situation and you will feel the backing.
    Mc Coist in his first season has produced one of the best defences I have seen for some time but little class in midfield and up front. Why? Because class does not exist within the budget currently available and he has gone on record to say that he will bring people in only if they are better than he has already...what is wrong with that?
    Who should the fans protest against? This is not the time for protest, the job of the fans is to boost the teams flagging confidence and if they do not do that, then they will get the results they deserve

  • Comment number 92.

    #90

    No one should have any time for conspiracies Jim. As you will probably know they are only forwarded by the desperate few to explain lean times when they want better. And there has been a surprising absence of them this season. Scottish football is filled with too many who lack the wit and intelligence to read a game of football never mind sustain an elaborate cover up.

    Perhaps Rangers should also ask Tina Turner to change the lyrics too 'Simply the Bust', as the first version is too closely associated with a guy whose 'best' led them here.

  • Comment number 93.

    #89 Phew! A few generalisations and stereotypes in that wee rant! I attend matches at ibrox whenever I can, I also attend matches regularly in Inverness and follow a fair bit of Highland League football.

    I can honestly say there has been a real change in behaviour at Ibrox, the songs have changed, the attitude of the fans has changed. Your viewpoint is well out of date. Sure there a few that won't change but every club has them. However they are in the minority. The vast majority of Rangers fans go to Ibrox to watch football. Not great football this last few weeks, but go to watch football.

    However in October I was at pittodrie watching the game Naismith got injured at and the Aberdeen Fans were well just awful. The constant harping back and glorification of the Durrant indicent is just sickening.

    There is a need for greater tolerance amongst all fans, last Saturday in Inverness there was a fan slashed, one arrested for spitting on and abusinng a steward, i witnessed a diplay of fans waving Pizza boxes and shouting abuse at soldiers. However the vast majority of fans at that game were fine, and came to enjoy a football match.

    We all could be a wee bit more tolerant, a wee bit less judgemental, including our media.

  • Comment number 94.

    Castle, I have to ask to whom you are referring when you say "the reason WE are in this mess.." do you mean we, all fans of Scottish Football as a questionable collective? Or do you mean Rangers, who were the original subject of the blog. I might be forgiven for suspecting you think you are talking about Scottish Football when you are essentially talking about yourself and a number of others not looking at the bigger picture. I too watched "The History of Scottish Football" and learned of the voting that went on to prove “fatal for the generation of TV wealth”. But as so many people have already commented here, those numbers are a much smaller proportion of clubs income than one might think. There are two teams on the brink of administration. Not all of them. I can't predict an altered past any more than you could predict an alternative future, but I think even if we had received the Sky Deal, the teams who have worked within their means would have still done so and invested or not similarly. Murray and Romanov would still have run Rangers and Hearts into the ground spending money they didn’t have. The "diddy teams" are not the ones who are up banker creek. Scottish football is in deeper routed trouble than an alternative TV deal.

  • Comment number 95.

    I do think it is a sad reflection of the diminishing interest in the Scottish game that the British Broadcasting Corporation only (apparently) sees fit to provide roughly one blog a week that is closed prematurely each time. Why is it closed at all? Particularly before the next discussion has been opened? Surely not a moderator’s wages? As proven by the posting on this subject and many others there is still an audience, sometimes erudite, who want a discussion both from those with an informed opinion and those with a passionate one. The BBC does not seem to be overtly biased in it’s coverage of the teams at least in the SPL. Most of you will disagree I’m sure. But you will struggle to find better coverage in any newspaper. As a tv license payer would hope. I did, however, post previously asking contributors what direction they would like more coverage of the Scottish game to take instead of just increased volume and no-one replied. Perhaps a few of the wiser gentlemen on here could construct a couple of polls for the BBC to read briefly as it seems they are pressed for time.

  • Comment number 96.

    How’s this for controversial? Since I now live in England the only team I have an undivided interest in is the National Team. Who is to say that the SPL downsizing the buying of other players and expenditure would not be great for the national game in the long-run? That the best chance we have is of our promising stars being bought up and taken to clubs at the bottom of the Premiership or anywhere in the championship? You could argue that the shop window would be darker, but I hardly think sitting on the bench for the old firm playing 5 cup games a season is earning anybody any timely moves either. Most of the Eastern European team’s players play abroad and you have to say nearly all of them are far stronger than the Scottish team. And before SallyTomford jumps in, many believe the reason England got dominated by Germany is not because of a manager, a goalkeeper or personal life scapegoat, but because of the infrastructure in the German domestic league. Where they spend far less than the premiership. If Rangers come out of the Tax bill story seriously halted or at least delayed in their spending, the Scottish game may have a chance at a move away from the Old Firm cold war and we might see more chances being taken on youth players and restructuring. It may be worth pointing out, I don’t think there were winners or losers in the Cold War, or that those responsible or suffering from consisted only of the big two..

  • Comment number 97.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 98.

    #90 Jim Spence

    As there are no restrictions imposed upon your writing Jim, perhaps you could give us an update on what happened following our previous complaints about the blog timescales?
    At the time of writing there are 96 comments posted which proves that there's a demand, not mention Scottish football being shortchanged.

    Look forward to your reply, thanks in advance.

  • Comment number 99.

    No90 Jim Spence

    If there are no restrictions on what you write - how about stating that the BBC blogs on Scottish football are inadequate by being too few, too short in shelf life and too infrequent !

    Also, how about stating that the new football main page is too English orientated. It was bad enough before the changes.

  • Comment number 100.

    Ah, morbhoy beats me by 1 minute

 

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