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Old Trafford under the spotlight

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James Pearce | 23:30 UK time, Wednesday, 10 March 2010

I'm currently on a train heading to Manchester for an evening that will play an important role in shaping Manchester United's season, but could also provide us with a much better idea of the direction in which the club's long-term future is heading.

David Beckham is far too diplomatic to tell us his thoughts about the ruling Glazer family, but how fascinating it would be to know what's going through his mind tonight. A return to a club that in many ways hasn't changed at all - it's still as successful as ever, but yet once again is witnessing an acrimonious scuffle for control.

I use the word 'scuffle' because so far the current campaign to oust the Glazers has been relatively unthreatening. There's been a great deal of talk but, bar the green and gold scarf campaign, we haven't seen much action.

Yes, we know that a wealthy group of businessmen, the Red Knights, are planning to raise enough money to persuade the Glazers to sell (more than a billion pounds would be required), but there's been no official bid put forward. The money is not yet in place.

So on Wednesday night both the Red Knights and other Manchester United supporters face a dilemma. There's no doubt that the Red Knights have the backing of much of the United fanbase - 125,000 people have signed up to join the Manchester United Supporters Trust - but signatures alone are unlikely to persuade the Glazers to sell.

The Glazer family's spokesman has insisted time and time again that the club is not for sale. Manchester United is a money-making machine. Right now there's little reason for the Glazers to walk away.

The Red Knights, then, need to decide what to do next. Let's assume for now they can raise the kind of sums of money that they're looking for - maybe even as much as £1.5bn. Would that be enough to persuade the Glazer family to hand over the keys to Old Trafford?

A Manchester United fan sells the scarves outside Old Trafford
The green and gold scarf campaign has taken off at Old Trafford

The general theory in life is that everything has its price. In that case, it's simple. The Red Knights just need to work out the Glazers' selling price and raise enough cash to meet it.

Of course, it's unlikely to be that simple. Few things are. There's also the matter of pride. The Glazers will not want to be seen to be being pushed into doing anything. If they do sell - and that's a very big IF - they will want to do so on their own terms.

That's why this evening is going to be so interesting. If supporters don't like something then the natural instinct is to protest. The green and gold campaign has been a very effective and good-natured campaign.

Tonight, though, there's been talk of going further - boycotting the first 10 minutes of the match, allowing the TV cameras to show rows of empty seats to the watching millions around the world. That would certainly send out a very powerful message.

But what would be the reaction of the Glazers? They would be frustrated, maybe angry, but would it make them more likely to sell or would it just persuade them to dig in and vow to ignore the protest? There has to be a real chance that the latter would be the case, and that's why MUST (Manchester United Supporters Trust) is trying to distance itself from talk of any boycott.

There's also the not insignificant matter of the actual match itself. Manager Sir Alex Ferguson has said that he's sure that fans wouldn't do anything that could harm the team's chances of reaching the Champions League quarter-finals. The protestors are protesting because they have strong feelings for the club. Would those same people really be happy not giving their players vocal support throughout the whole 90 minutes?

So maybe this evening we won't see as big a protest as we'd once expected. But then if there isn't a boycott, would the Glazers be able to use that as evidence that the fans feelings against them aren't as strong as some might claim?

It's a big night for Manchester United, but it's also an important night for those attempting to oust the Glazers. Tactics, on and off the pitch, are going to be fascinating to watch.

UPDATE 1700 GMT:

I'm now at Old Trafford. I've just interviewed Duncan Drasdo, who's the chief executive of MUST. I'm now fairly certain that there will not be a 10-minute boycott - or at least not one that's effective enough to be noticeable on TV. MUST are not doing anything to encourage a boycott, and realistically you'd need around 20% of fans to stay out of their seats for it to be clearly visible.

MUST are definitely going for the cautious approach at the moment. It's a waiting game for them while the Red Knights continue to try to raise the money. Interestingly, though, Drasdo did tell me that he thought that MUST could well support stronger protests once (or if) that money is raised. So there is a bit of a veiled threat towards the Glazers at the moment.

The message from MUST appears to be "We're going to support the Red Knights, but we're not going to make life difficult for you, the Glazers, YET. If however, you refuse any financial offer from the Red Knights, then we (MUST) could start trying to hit you where it hurts - in your pockets."

UPDATE 2300 GMT:

I said that Beckham's too diplomatic to tell us what he thinks about the Glazers. Well we saw again on Wednesday night that he's also astute enough to let us know his thoughts without opening his mouth.

The enduring image from the game will be Beckham leaving the pitch with a green and gold scarf round his neck. There's no doubt that Beckham's gesture is a boost to the anti-Glazer campaign.

There was no mass walkout, but United's commanding performance enabled the fans to chant their protests without doing anything to damage their team's chances of victory. It was a fantastic night for the team and a good one for the protestors.

Comments

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  • 1. At 2:54pm on 10 Mar 2010, redshirt7 wrote:

    Its all quite funny really. The traders outside the ground are charging £6-7 for green and gold scarves yet I'm told they were a whole lot cheaper just a few weeks ago? Maybe the Glazers arent so bad...

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  • 2. At 2:54pm on 10 Mar 2010, Fallowfields Finest wrote:

    Lets hope no-one scores in the first ten minutes then...

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  • 3. At 3:05pm on 10 Mar 2010, Chucky wrote:

    Good blog; I agree, it is going to be interesting.

    The Glazers won't sell, and to be honest, for as long as we are doing well most fans won't mind. Once Sir Alex retires and we are no longer one of the top teams in Europe, then the real protests will begin.

    The Red Knights should wait a couple of years, then they'll get a good price and lots more support.

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  • 4. At 3:11pm on 10 Mar 2010, DevilOfRed wrote:

    I'd like to think they'll do the right thing and turn up, but part of me feels this message needs to be seen by Glazers!

    The last part of me thinks they wouldn't even notice - its not like they turn up to games . . .

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  • 5. At 3:11pm on 10 Mar 2010, TheamazingMrWhite wrote:

    The first ten minutes? Really? If they want their protest to be taken seriously, thats pathetic. Make it a proper one and boycott the entire match. You've practically qualified anyway. Really. What does 10 minutes do?

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  • 6. At 3:13pm on 10 Mar 2010, blue-eyedCatkiller wrote:

    Manchester United will win the champion's league and everything will be forgotten.....

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  • 7. At 3:15pm on 10 Mar 2010, thewackyreddevil wrote:

    I'll be there at OT tonight and I for one will not be protesting. At this crucial stage in the tie the players need an upbeat, loud crowd supporting them. Come'on you reds!

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  • 8. At 3:15pm on 10 Mar 2010, Jamie Riley wrote:

    Good read James. United fans will undoubtedly seize the opportunity to voice and show their discomforts in such a high-profile game, however I think the return of Becks may some what neutralise it or almost overpower it.

    This isn't the only opportunity United fans are going to have to demonstrate their anger to the Glazers, - should events on the pitch go to plan (I'm confident they will) they will have another high-profile opportunity in the Champions League quarters to continue this protest. However it maybe be the first and last opportunity for United fans to welcome back David to Old Trafford (at least with him as a player).

    My predictions - no prizes if this does happen. United progress through, Becks gets a raptureous reception!

    Pretty safe bet I hope at least the latter part of my prediction!

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  • 9. At 3:16pm on 10 Mar 2010, We all live in a Georgie Best World wrote:

    The 10 minute boycott won't go ahead. Mark my words.

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  • 10. At 3:21pm on 10 Mar 2010, AlexCricket wrote:

    An impartial view. . .

    If I were advising the Glazers I would tell them to release a new away strip paying tribute to the clubs past - in Green and Gold!!!

    Now that would be funny!

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  • 11. At 3:22pm on 10 Mar 2010, Peter wrote:

    " Would those same people really be happy not giving their players vocal support throughout the whole 90 minutes?"

    It's Old Trafford. There is very rareful if ever vocal support for 90 minutes. Would hardly be a difference in sound.

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  • 12. At 3:29pm on 10 Mar 2010, Storm of Swords wrote:

    At least the Utd fans are doing SOMETHING which cant be said about the Liverpool fans who just sit and moan while repeating "in Rafa we trust" like a broken record as their team goes to pieces on the pitch.

    Lets hope the money generated from the sale of these scarves is actually going to the Supporters Trust. I know of some retailers selling these scarves in their own shops for their own profit.

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  • 13. At 3:30pm on 10 Mar 2010, YX wrote:

    boycotting the first 10 minutes? i'm sure the Glazers won't mind, since the crowd will turn up anyway with their money.

    i do find this whole protest fascinating. the only thing the fans are complaining about is the debt which is perfectly manageable for a club of United's size (i suppose also the ignorant ones are complaining that the Glazers are American). debt is only a problem if it is not affordable.

    and even if the Red Knights take over using their billions of cash, what then? will they simply use the club's revenue to strengthen the squad, improve facilities etc? i don't think so; they'll want their money back and this will be no different to paying off the current debt.

    the protesters can do all they want, they're doing it for the fans but it will be the fans that will be preventing them from winning; there's just too many fans of United that don't really go as far as protesting and will happily snap up the available season tickets that got boycotted.

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  • 14. At 3:34pm on 10 Mar 2010, TheTomTyke wrote:

    The cleverest thing the Glazers could do would be to re-release the classic 92-94 green and gold away strip. It's all well and good Manchester United fans buying green and gold scarves, but as said in the article, they are a money making machine, and the fans won't stop buying the official merchandise which really would send out a message.

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  • 15. At 3:37pm on 10 Mar 2010, reddwarf2708 wrote:

    I'm not sure where you got 10 minutes from - I heard it was the first 20 minutes. I'm going to the match tonight and won't be boycotting it for any length of time. Although I support the green & gold campaign I think this is a daft idea. It'll just look like loads of people have got stuck in traffic!!! I've paid £48 for my ticket and I'm not wasting any of that money by standing outside the stadium whilst we're playing a huge European tie against AC Milan. Besides, I want to be in my seat when Beckham's name is announced at the start of the game. He'll get a great reception.

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  • 16. At 3:48pm on 10 Mar 2010, Jonathan Vaughan wrote:

    RE: redshirt7

    Just bought my scarf for £2.50 :D sounds like who ever you spoke to got well and truly diddled my friend! :D

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  • 17. At 3:52pm on 10 Mar 2010, Chris McLoughlin wrote:

    I can understand THE RED KINGHTS trying to buy the club, but its about the team on the pitch doing the job first, to make the club what it is and that should be the main thing.

    Forget about leaving empty seats, just get behind the team.

    Hope we get the result tonight and we can move on!!

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  • 18. At 3:57pm on 10 Mar 2010, Fed_Borg wrote:

    As a long standing Utd fan, watching all this from Kenya is really disappointing.

    The English F.A should never have allowed the Glazers to buy into Man Utd in the first place.

    This club is not just a football club, it is an institution and as such it needs people who have the interests of the club, the fans and the city to run it.

    I will join the protest, but I will still watch the match, as my interest today is that they go through.

    Glazers out!!!

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  • 19. At 3:58pm on 10 Mar 2010, LordSirSteveTreacle wrote:

    The poor Man Utd fans - they are so upset that they have spent hundreds of millions on their squad, win the league every year, seemingly have the ref and FA in their pocket, that they have to year yellow and green scarves to vent their anger. How hard it must me to be a Man Utd fan!

    I wonder what their fans would have felt had their team (like my team, Gillingham FC) almost gone out of the league then out of business a few years back. What would the "loyal" yellow and green-clad buffoons have felt had their club been in the financial position of Chester, Bournemouth, Rotherham, Luton etc of recent times, or had their club upped and moved 80 miles like Wimbledon?

    The poor loves - they may not win the league this year. Maybe they'll get some of those big fingers, rosettes, scarves or rattles done in yellow and green next season, if they don't getc their way, to wave about in a happy clappy way?

    Maybe instead of dressing up like clowns (which match their mentality), those Man Utd "fans" who don't come from Manchester (gloryhunters) should become proper football fans and go and watch their local teams? I genuinely have some symnpathy for those United fans from the Old Trafford area who are gutted about the whole Glazer thing, but find it laughable that any of their "fans" who don't come from Manchester have the cheek to talk about loyalty - they wouldn't have the faintest idea of what that is!

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  • 20. At 3:58pm on 10 Mar 2010, Gniarhhs wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 21. At 4:20pm on 10 Mar 2010, Anti-war wrote:

    Give up a monopoly, not on your nelly!! Legally can shareholders actually use a companys assets (football ground) as collaterel for the loan they took to buy the shares???!!!

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  • 22. At 4:27pm on 10 Mar 2010, Nevs_A_Red wrote:

    To any fans thinking of boycotting - think about it. You've paid for your ticket, so the Glazers have already got what they need. If you miss the start fo the game, then its only you thats going to suffer. The phrase "bite off your nose, to spite your face" comes to mind.
    Let's face it - I dont agree the Glazers have done things the right way, and the 6 loans of nearly £2million to each of the kids is a disgrace, BUT - the club is not going intop meltdown, the debt is manageable, and the club is still battling for honours. As I see it, as long as the club is succesful, then we dont need to panic just yet!

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  • 23. At 4:30pm on 10 Mar 2010, Nick wrote:

    Ive noticed that green and gold away shirts from 92/93 in good nick are selling for in excess of £75 on ebay!
    Will be wearing mine tonight whilst cheering on the boys.

    I sincerely hope there isnt a 10 minute boycott as its those early moments on European nights when the mood is set at OT.
    A quiet stadium plays into Milans hands and we wouldnt we look like right mugs if Milan score in that period?

    Im all for a match boycott but it needs properly organising. The Utd - Liverpool fixture has alreday been mentioned as the Liverpool fans may also be keen to participate.
    Tonight is not the night IMHO

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  • 24. At 4:43pm on 10 Mar 2010, Greg Smith wrote:

    Boycotting 10 minutes will make no difference to the Glazers whatsoever, it will only work in Milan's favour by damaging our boys on the pitch - where it hurts. If people want to protest, fine, but not at the expense of the team who need our support right from when they walk out onto the pitch.

    I don't see the problem, we have enormous debt, yes, but its managable because we are the most profitable club in the world. The glazers are doing everything they said they would do right at the beginning in terms of committing funds to the development of the team and we are continuing to be successful domestically and globally. Whilst I accept that on the face of it the red knights cause is a noble one, they are ultimately looking to make a sound financial investment, the same as the Glazers. The difference being that these city boys have absolutely no experience of running a club the way the glazers have. These so called economists are the same ones who contributed to an economic meltdown so I'm not sure its wise to put trust in them just because they're Man United fans. If we're gonna follow the Barca model, whose going to be the president? Terry Christian?

    The last lot of protestors set up FC United of Manchester, so if you're wearing a green and yellow scarf, that's where you should be...watching Unibond Premier football against Ossett Town.

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  • 25. At 4:43pm on 10 Mar 2010, TheresOnlyOneWenger wrote:

    Excellent Article great perspective it will be a close game and i do think if Manchester United play badly A.C. Milan will have a good chance of a big win. But only if they play badly. Otherwise 3-1 Man U.
    From An Arsenal FAN.

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  • 26. At 4:45pm on 10 Mar 2010, yellowgreenred wrote:

    Load of old garbage. Why would United fans travel all the way from London, Devon and the Far East only to miss the first ten minutes in a protest at 'foreign' investors? Makes no sense.

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  • 27. At 4:56pm on 10 Mar 2010, Schoie81 wrote:

    People boycotting the first 10 or even 20mins of the game wont make the slightest bit of difference to the Glaziers - the only people who'll suffer from that protest are the fans who've paid to watch 90mins of football but will only actually be watching 70-80mins? If the tickets have been paid for the Glaziers wont care if you turn up to watch or not, they've got the money and that's all that matters to them - they're are business men not football fans.

    If you had an objection to the people who owned your local supermarket - would you go there, do your shopping, pay for it but then only take half of it home and expect the owners to get upset about this?

    To make the Glaziers sit up and take notice you need to stop fans buying season tickets/match tickets, offical merchandise, programmes, and food and drink in the stadium - and you'll never convince enough fans to do this.

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  • 28. At 5:05pm on 10 Mar 2010, remarkabledermiebutt wrote:

    #10 If I were advising the Glazers I would tell them to release a new away strip paying tribute to the clubs past - in Green and Gold!!!

    Now that would be funny!

    I agree, very funny but actually, a very good idea.
    It would certainly show that the Americans are serious about staying on, which from a business point of view, is definitely the way they will go.
    They know the potential of MUFC as a business, that is why they bought in the first place, and no amount of pressure from well meaning fan groups or others will change their view point.

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  • 29. At 5:09pm on 10 Mar 2010, remarkabledermiebutt wrote:

    #19
    SteveTreacle.
    You really do not like MUFC do you?
    I read two previous posts of yours, and you are quite bitter.
    May I ask why?
    No, please do not bother, I am sure the response will be full of vitriol

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  • 30. At 5:10pm on 10 Mar 2010, Fallowfields Finest wrote:

    I'm no expert, but regarding managing the debt. As you say, a club utd's size has no problem with this kind of debt. Even less so with the new bonds which seems like a clever idea. A lot of the anger seems to be coming from the fact that the glazer's lumped their own personal debt on the club. Also regarding MUST, MUST's two main gripes with the glazers was originally the debt and the fact they believed the club should be in the hands of the fans and not business men. I guess in this day and age, business man are inevitably going to be in charge, but why not fans at the same time. Hence the support for the Red Knights. Personally I'm trying not to get too involved with all the protests as people jumping on bandwagons ever so slightly annoy me. Half the people wearing green and gold do so to look good among other fans or to get on TV. I guess that's why it's such a good protest if everyone, regardless of the direction of their support wants to wear the colours.

    Lets just cross our fingers, that 5/10 years down the line we all made the right decisions. Are we ever going to be happy with the way a club is run?

    10 years in the future... Love UTD, Hate the Red Knights.

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  • 31. At 5:13pm on 10 Mar 2010, Anuj Mital wrote:

    Who cares? Real men play rugby.

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  • 32. At 5:13pm on 10 Mar 2010, BringitON wrote:

    # 18 - Top comment

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  • 33. At 5:14pm on 10 Mar 2010, redshirt7 wrote:

    Boycotting matches just hurts the team and the fans. A total ban on shirts and other club shop stuff would hurt the Glazers. We can all wait a little longer for new shirts...

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  • 34. At 5:14pm on 10 Mar 2010, United Dreamer wrote:

    "But what would be the reaction of the Glazers? They would be frustrated, maybe angry, but would it make them more likely to sell or would it just persuade them to dig in and vow to ignore the protest?"

    So the answer is do nothing. Wasn't that the approach Thatcher advocated when trade embargos on South Africa were mooted? Short term damage is not a reason to forestall action if a long term and healthier goal is achieved.

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  • 35. At 5:17pm on 10 Mar 2010, United Dreamer wrote:

    #12 "At least the Utd fans are doing SOMETHING which cant be said about the Liverpool fans who just sit and moan while repeating "in Rafa we trust" like a broken record as their team goes to pieces on the pitch."

    At last something we and Liverpool supporters agree on!

    IN RAFA WE TRUST!

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  • 36. At 5:20pm on 10 Mar 2010, Qwerty wrote:

    The green and yellow scarf protest has been innovative and made a point to the TV cameras, but it wont make the Glazer's sell up. I guess that's the point, but the fans wont be able to get them out on their own. As long as United remain successful I think this will blow over by the end of the season, after all the Glazer's aren't the only owners who don't go to every game. After all, even if they are looking for profit, surely it's in their interest for United to still be successful?

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  • 37. At 5:21pm on 10 Mar 2010, United Dreamer wrote:

    "15. At 3:37pm on 10 Mar 2010, smeeegheeeead wrote:
    I'm not sure where you got 10 minutes from - I heard it was the first 20 minutes. I'm going to the match tonight and won't be boycotting it for any length of time. Although I support the green & gold campaign I think this is a daft idea. It'll just look like loads of people have got stuck in traffic!!!"

    smeeghead. Not necessarily - you can gaurantee that there will be cameras outside the stadium bringing attention to the fans waiting outside.

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  • 38. At 5:25pm on 10 Mar 2010, United Dreamer wrote:

    "BUT - the club is not going intop meltdown, the debt is manageable, and the club is still battling for honours."

    #22 how on earth can you say that when the only reason we made a profit after reaching the champs league final and winning the premiership was by selling our best player for 80 million! Are we going sell players every season for 80 million. I find some people's logic baffling.

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  • 39. At 5:27pm on 10 Mar 2010, mcbain wrote:

    I wonder if stevetreacle understands what self-righteousness and arrogance means. who made the rules here.

    "laughable that any of their "fans" who don't come from Manchester have the cheek to talk about loyalty - they wouldn't have the faintest idea of what that is!"

    I found this comment laughable. Why not go the whole hog & have players from outside Manchester barred from playing for Utd.

    Geography doesn't come into it. Yes, some "fans" gloryhunt. But they are countless people who support clubs through thick & thin.

    I've supported my club since I was a boy. At that time they were a bit of a joke.

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  • 40. At 5:28pm on 10 Mar 2010, Tea Time At Harrods wrote:

    A ten minute delay could actually favour 90% of United's fanbase-just incase the train was delayed from London.

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  • 41. At 5:28pm on 10 Mar 2010, ronaldo_rocket wrote:

    SteveTreacle, as long-winded and predictable as ever. We United fans cannot do right regardless where we are from or where in Europe we travel to follow the team (yes there are more dedicated fans than I feel you give credit for). We were asking for the takeover no doubt, but don't tar us all with your damning brush when the club means so much to so many.

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  • 42. At 5:31pm on 10 Mar 2010, Danskeverton wrote:

    They wont sell. They are hard nosed business men and dont give a monkeys about the fans other than for the gate reciepts. The only way to get them to sell is to stop turning up for the match. Either that or the team start playing like Liverpool and the finacial situation gets a bit to much of a worry for the Glaziers. Stop the income comming in and they will go away. Bit risky that though.

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  • 43. At 5:33pm on 10 Mar 2010, Muhammad Yousaf wrote:

    Honestly speaking, The Red Knights should not takeover MAN UTD. Buying the club doesnt mean that we'll solve all problems. Man UTD need huge working Capital to keep the Club Running. How are they going to manage it...? Glazers with thier Contacts n Popularity all around the world, raisng cash wont be a big deal. Infact till now, there's not even a single moment where the Glazers said,"okay, we dont have enough cash to buy this player!!!" They splashed out 30m to sign Berbatov when everyone knew he is not worth that much except Sir Alex, though im a BERBA supporter. The Bond Issue will defintly help manutd, no question about that. There is now no major diturbances from loan issuing authorities.
    And latest reports say the debt has reduced from 537 to 507m(not sure abt the figures.).
    So glazers arent going anywhere as they invest for long term as they shown with their AMERICAN FOOTBALL TEAM.

    we need to give Glazers more time. Have patience United Fans.

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  • 44. At 5:41pm on 10 Mar 2010, Mike Mullen wrote:

    I'm still baffled by how you can borrow $750 million to buy a club, stick the club with the debt, and then somehow take money out of the club as 'profits'.

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  • 45. At 5:45pm on 10 Mar 2010, Czechmate wrote:

    Yes debt is bad but large companies carry debt, if a company doesn't carry debt you have to ask is it really trying to move forward? I think alot of fans mereley hear their club is in debt and react to it, managable debt isn't really a problem. It doesn't really seam to have affected their spending or put any restraints on other areas of potential investments.

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  • 46. At 6:12pm on 10 Mar 2010, badger wrote:

    have all of you glory hunting man utd fans going to the match enjoyed your long journeys from anywhere but manchester?

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  • 47. At 6:23pm on 10 Mar 2010, davidgilmourthe3rd wrote:

    Dis-united 1 Milan 4

    as for what beckham has to say who really gives a fig he has become one big yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn

    i expect a very " old traffordish " game a very " old traffordish " ref

    having said that I expect dis-united to crash out.

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  • 48. At 6:27pm on 10 Mar 2010, United Dreamer wrote:

    #43 "Glazers with thier Contacts n Popularity all around the world, raisng cash wont be a big deal."

    Really? So how come they needed to shell out 14% for the PIK loans? That doesn't sound like a good contact to me.

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  • 49. At 6:27pm on 10 Mar 2010, Football_UK wrote:

    " David Beckham plots an upset on his Manchester return "

    The BBC officially take the biscuit.
    Thanks for making me laugh loud, as soon as I read it.
    I think he won't even be playing.

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  • 50. At 6:46pm on 10 Mar 2010, United Dreamer wrote:

    "45. At 5:45pm on 10 Mar 2010, Czechmate wrote:
    Yes debt is bad but large companies carry debt, if a company doesn't carry debt you have to ask is it really trying to move forward? I think alot of fans mereley hear their club is in debt and react to it, managable debt isn't really a problem.
    "

    I agree but UNmanageable debt IS a problem. Or is issuing bonds to raise more cash just business as usual?

    Ignoring the patronising nature of your post for a moment, fans started reacting after reports that a sizeable portion of our operating profit came out of the Ronaldo sale, it emerged that the bond issue further exposed Manchester United's assets including Carrington and the stadium, and when it also emerged that the Glazer's took 10 million out the club for fees in a year.

    That is why the fans are reacting. Many of us with half a brain have known that the Glazers takeover was excessively leveraged through debts. Many chose to ignore the fact at the time - the recent announcements have exacerbated already raw emotions.

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  • 51. At 6:51pm on 10 Mar 2010, davidgilmourthe3rd wrote:

    another slow tedious Blog by the bbc

    bye all.

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  • 52. At 6:54pm on 10 Mar 2010, Tim Hawkins wrote:

    I don't think the Glazers care - they've done nowt for the club - bought it for £800m and then instantly recouped that outlay in loans - ow other than taking out those director loans.

    Money talks though - is the only thing they understand - if we win the premier league this year which personally is a bit of a big ask - well biggest ask for four years, then personally with the game being meaningless we should all boycott the last home match entirely - then they'd have to sit up and take notice because if that happened regularly they're entire business plan of mortgaging the club to the hilt to pay for itself would be doomed - they'd have to sell something whether it be the club entirely, ground or training ground or a star player - like to see a press conference then with Fergie and Gill saying what wonderful supportive owners they are - I haven't been to OT since Glazer bought the club.

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  • 53. At 6:55pm on 10 Mar 2010, ravelston wrote:

    #38

    "BUT - the club is not going intop meltdown, the debt is manageable, and the club is still battling for honours."

    #22 how on earth can you say that when the only reason we made a profit after reaching the champs league final and winning the premiership was by selling our best player for 80 million! Are we going sell players every season for 80 million. I find some people's logic baffling.

    -----

    There is a big difference between "accounting profit" and the actual free cash flow generated by a business. Last year United generated 91 million from operations and paid about 45 million in interest leaving 46 million in free cash. To that they added the 80 million from Ronaldo giving a total free cash flow of around 126 million. (The tax advantages resulting from the buyout meant they paid no tax.) Accounting (and taxable) profits are calculated after deducting at least two major non-cash charges - depreciation of player contracts and amortisation of goodwill generated by the buyout. These total about 70 million, leading to accounting losses (and a much diminished tax liability), but fortunately, have no impact on the cash flow generated by the club.

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  • 54. At 6:57pm on 10 Mar 2010, redraaj wrote:

    @38

    virtually everyone made a loss its called the recession

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  • 55. At 7:04pm on 10 Mar 2010, Nevs_A_Red wrote:

    38. At 5:25pm on 10 Mar 2010, United Dreamer wrote:
    "BUT - the club is not going intop meltdown, the debt is manageable, and the club is still battling for honours."

    #22 how on earth can you say that when the only reason we made a profit after reaching the champs league final and winning the premiership was by selling our best player for 80 million! Are we going sell players every season for 80 million. I find some people's logic baffling.

    ------------

    Reason is, that they just raised £500m (which they had enough applications to do 3 times over), and therefore made it easily manageable again after it was veering towards getting out of hand. At the end of the day they are business men, so know what they are doing on that side of things - whether we like it or not. TBH, as long as they dont start trying to interfere with the footballing side - which they havent - and we continue to be succesful, then why should we be panicking?

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  • 56. At 7:06pm on 10 Mar 2010, Tim Hawkins wrote:

    Reacting to debt - are you having a laugh - lets forget the debt issue - the interest payments on the debt alone are believed to be anywhere from £50 million plus a year - I don't know about you but as a United fan I'd rather that money was spent on players rather than paying some banks some unnecessary fees because the owner wants to buy the club but not pay for it!

    Given the success of the club in recent years - three league titles and two champions league finals with a semi in the last three years - and the fact that the debt keeps rising then sooner or latter United are not going to win the league and get knocked out of europe earlier - could be this year! - then how are the Glazers going to pay of the interest payments on the debt???

    If you want an example see what happens at liverpool if they don't finish in the top four!

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  • 57. At 7:14pm on 10 Mar 2010, NEARPOSTHEADER wrote:

    I have to laugh at the way that Man U fans constantly get singled out as not being 'local' when it seems that half the professional players around today cite Liverpool as their boyhood team, and I don't see many scousers amongst them. All successful clubs build up support away from their home city, thus I see plenty of Chelsea, Barcelona and Arsenal shirts on the streets of downtown Guadalajara, Mexico (45-50 quid a shirt in a country where the minimum wage is less than 3 quid A DAY) and surely this is the aim of all clubs - to become more successful on and off the pitch.
    I have to say I'm still a bit mystified that the Glazers were able to wrest control of Man U with debt, but there again, mortgages were being offered to pet dogs in the USA up to last year, and if you watch Zeitgeist, the whole economic system is based on ever-increasing debt, so anything is possible.
    As long as Man U are successful, I'm sure the Glazers will be happy to cream off the profits and the fans will continue to stump up for their season tickets. A friend just attended the Real v Sevilla game and she paid over 100 euros per ticket, so maybe things aren't so expensive in the UK after all.

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  • 58. At 7:16pm on 10 Mar 2010, Tim Hawkins wrote:

    ow and the 500 million of debt is on the club - there's another 250 odd on the glazers which they are leveraging against the club - what's the bet the debt is the same if not getting bigger which historically it has been every year - the bond issue - is a warning - if it's so good why didn't they do when they bought the club instead of letting the debt spiral another 50 odd million each year.

    Yes United have still bought players like Berba for 30 odd million. As I've said before Glazers haven't put one dollar into United in fact they've taken money out. To keep the club going as it had been run before they've have had to let this debt start to get out of control - and what has been there number one solution - make the fans pay for it by hiking ticket prices by 10% plus each year. Well somethings go to give they can't keep hiking the prices and I find rather odd that money for Ronaldo still hasn't been used on players although they said it would.

    In fact what's changed since the glazers took over - so ok we've won a lot but that's down to the team Fergie started building long before they came along by buying the likes of Ronaldo. Basically the same board - Gill still running the show - we bought players long before they game along for 30 odd million in fact much more than we have done since - Rooney, Veron and Ferdinand. When they arrived on the scene we were financially the most successful sporting brand in the world now we are only 3rd in football. Before we had the best sponsorship endorsements, we just get into bed with American companies now.

    So the answer to what have they actually done is absolutely nowt!

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  • 59. At 7:19pm on 10 Mar 2010, Tim Hawkins wrote:

    ow and on the bucks thing - the glazers invested enough to build a successful superbowl winning team and then sucked the team dry - and as can be seen by this - http://bbs.buccaneers.com/showthread.php?t=181217 - have since performed worse and worse each year so don't give me that complete B S about them being in for the long haul.

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  • 60. At 7:21pm on 10 Mar 2010, ravelston wrote:

    #44

    To date the 'profits' have been retained within the club (with the exception of the 10 million in loans to the directors). (There is a 3 million per year 'consulting contract' that results in a transfer within the group.)
    As #45 observes, the senior debt (500 million in bonds) does not present a problem. The 200 million in 'Payment in Kind' (PIK) debt does present a problem - at least to the Glazers whose shares secure the debt. That will need to be paid down (or renegotiated) fairly rapidly which will use up a significant portion of current and future cash. (The bond covenants allow for 70 million to be used immediately and a further 25 million per year thereafter.) The practical impact of this is likely to be to limit net spending on new players to an average of around 30 million per year for the next few years - as that's pretty much the most United has ever spent, it should not be too major a constraint.

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  • 61. At 7:25pm on 10 Mar 2010, superhoop_85 wrote:

    United fans would never boycott a match in a million years.

    I did see Lazio fans do this about 7 years ago, the whole home support left the stadium at half time I forget who they were playing against that day. The reason they left? Because they had lost 3-0 to Roma the week before.

    The moral of the story, I am sure you can figure it out yourself!

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  • 62. At 8:55pm on 10 Mar 2010, ravelston wrote:

    #58
    In fact what's changed since the glazers took over - so ok we've won a lot but that's down to the team Fergie started building long before they came along by buying the likes of Ronaldo. Basically the same board - Gill still running the show - we bought players long before they game along for 30 odd million in fact much more than we have done since - Rooney, Veron and Ferdinand. When they arrived on the scene we were financially the most successful sporting brand in the world now we are only 3rd in football. Before we had the best sponsorship endorsements, we just get into bed with American companies now.

    -----

    You've got a point. The only players United have bought under the Glazers are: Van der Saar, Park, Evra, Vidic, Foster, Carrick, Fabio, Rafael, Hargreaves, Anderson, Nani, Kuszczak, Manucho, Possebon, Tevez (ok not really 'bought'), Berbatov, Tosic, de Laet, Valencia, Owen, Obertan, Diouf, Pogba and Smalling. Lucky SAF had already built that team.

    The third place thing is, according to Deloitte, due to the weakness of the pound - with the exchange rate where it was a couple of years ago United would still be first.

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  • 63. At 10:39pm on 10 Mar 2010, thecat wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 64. At 00:21am on 11 Mar 2010, thegreatNEb wrote:

    I've got to agree with #62...

    some fine signings in there, and some very good bargains (van der saar, evra, carrick, nani, valencia)...but even transfers are more down to fergie than to the glazers. they just OK the money, which has never faltered during their time.

    Ferg doesnt want to spend 30mil + on multiple players every season, if he did he would end up with a team full of egos like RM and then look what happens, they all want to show off and it ends in a mixture of hair gel and tears. All they need imo is a stronger play maker in the middle of the park to help out rooney (a lampard). Carrick, anderson, fletcher, scholes, hargreaves are all too defensive for that purpose imo

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  • 65. At 00:49am on 11 Mar 2010, hkcharlie wrote:

    I think someone that bought a job lot of scarves that he didn't sell back in the days of Cantona is making a killing.

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  • 66. At 01:26am on 11 Mar 2010, Brotato wrote:

    utd prove once again they are nothing without Rooney

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  • 67. At 02:08am on 11 Mar 2010, G_K___ wrote:

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

  • 68. At 03:15am on 11 Mar 2010, G_K___ wrote:

    The fact that the Glazers got anywhere NEAR owning Man U simply proves that the fit and proper persons test is not nearly stringent enough.

    Everyone knows the calibre of individuals they are.

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  • 69. At 03:20am on 11 Mar 2010, Millsy - The 606 Maillot Jaune - Save 606 wrote:

    Chelsea fan in peace.

    May i first talk about tonight briefly, and congratulate your team on a wonderful performance. I'm no lover of your team, mainly because your 4-0 defeat of us in the FA Cup final of 94' was the first time i cried as a football supporter, (I was 5 at the time!) and that ingrained in me a deep dislike of your team, but i respect and enjoy quality football above all, and like i said, your performance was excellent.

    Also, your reception for Beckham was incredible. To those who may have been at the game and haven't seen a re-run/highlights, towards the end of your ovation, the camera zoomed in on Beckham's face, and he was visibly proud and looked to me as if a tear was welling in his eye.

    Tonight, your team took to my heart for only the second time ever. '99, Teddy and Ole was the only other time.

    On to the main topic now.

    I hope the "Green and Gold" protests work for you. The way the Glazers bought into the club, the way they've run it (are you not no carring more debt than you started with?) and their seeming lack of care for the club make me sad.

    I believe it's the Son's that turn up to games sometimes, am i correct in this? So your real true owner, the father doesn't even turn up. Real supporter there. People may say "Chelsea fan? They've got Abramovich, how can he say that". Well, i can that because Abramovich turns up to many many games throughout the season, most home games and the important away games, and you can see he cares for the club now in a way he maybe didn't at the start.

    I've seen nothing from the Glazer's that makes me think they care, and that there not in it for the money alone.

    This is the same as the mess that is Liverpool's ownership, they don't seem to care about the club, only what goes into their large back pockets, or/in addition the prawn sandwiches that go into their fat belly's!

    This Chelsea fan is fully behind the Green and Gold campaign. And you know what, if your taking donations for it, i'm putting a small amount in (Student loans, not much left of it! - Plus i wouldn't want to give too much to our closest rivals in footballing terms :P)

    Anyway, back to revision. Great performance, great atmosphere, and we'll see you at the Santiago Bernabéu Stadium for a bit of revenge. Terry to get the winner anybody?! :P

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  • 70. At 03:56am on 11 Mar 2010, jp wrote:

    I am really struggling to fully understand the protest movement. I am a united fan and a season ticket holder, albeit I haven't been much this season as currently working in the far east.

    The protest against the glazer's has really taken strength since the economic crisis worsened and worries about the levels of debt in the Club, and its holding company. This despite the debt re-organisation following a bond issue. Therefore, it would seem that the prime concern of the protestors is the finances of the club. I think what may be is being missed, is that a club the size of Manchester United is no longer capable of being run as traditional football club, indeed I would argue, our great success in the premier league era is down to the people who ran the club turning us into a business franchise around the world.

    The glazers purchased the club at a time when debt was easily available and the majority of private corporate transactions occured with a high level of gearing, indeed many at a level even higher than the Glazer purchase of united.

    Now the protest movement place their faith in a group of financiers who are seeking to raise the capital to buy out the glazers. The term here is raising the finance - this group of people are not a collection of mega rich who have £1bn plus cash lying around to buy the club. They will go and raise the cash from investors, who, for this kind of investment are likely to be true investors rather than football keen mega rich. Investors, by their very nature, will expect a return on their investment probably to a much greater amount than the return currently given to the banks/bond holders on our debt portfolio. This would mean the cash leaving the club in dividends rather than an interest expense, or further future sales. The end result therefore, I would argue is the same.

    I have no problem with the glazers, they bought the club as a business and have left the football side to the football people. I would much prefer to have them than a single wealthy owner who gets rid of the manager every other week or buys who they want. Also, if red knights get in, who will make board level decisions - do we then face the turmoil of board level power struggles etc etc.

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  • 71. At 03:57am on 11 Mar 2010, drew wrote:

    If those green and gold scarves are only 2.50, i'd pay it to use them as toilet roll any day. I dont mind payin a bit extra.

    I think the red knights are deluded. Finding 100 people to put in 10mil or 50 to put in 20mil? C'mon mate. This is a pipedream. And to find a billion to buy the club and give the glazers a bit of profit, surely a billion isnt gonna do it

    The glazers have come in on the utd deal knowing there is unprecedented potential over the next 10yrs. Revenues and turnover will increase no doubt and i wouldnt be surprised if utd were worth 2 billion in 5yrs time never mind 10yrs

    Last years profits were not whats been happening for the last load of years at OT. But its a global recession. Once thats over, i see utd bouncing back and overtaking RM in the forbes list as they have so may fans in the far east markets

    The beckham transfer to real madrid payed for itself many times over and propelled RM above utd. But Kaka and ronaldo have apparently not done the same so far with shirt sales and other merchandising

    Look out for united to bounce back when they find a new pin up for china/japan/korea

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  • 72. At 04:26am on 11 Mar 2010, drew wrote:

    Milan were simply awful tonight BTW. Them 3 front players were the laziest ive ever seen. I suppose milan must have been so downhearted after their bad start going a goal down, that it was hard for them to keep their heads up

    But huntelaar and borrielo practically sat down when they lost the ball. And ronnie too. I think milan knew they were out before tonights game

    Utd didnt even play at their best. Milan were simply dire and surrendered early

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  • 73. At 05:51am on 11 Mar 2010, Phil Walton wrote:

    Come on guys, be honest. We don't just like an American owning a British institution. Coal mines, car manufacturing, and now soccer teams. Damn Yanks. But is it bad? Thank goodness the Germans now make the Mini. I'm an English United fan living in the USA and this all smells of sour grapes and zenophobia. The clues are evident; I have a financial background and can understand and comment on the Man United's balance sheet. After the banking crisis, whispering "Debt" is the equivalent to yelling 'Shark' at the beach and the people who are doing the yelling have no idea what a goldfish looks like never mind a shark. Man United's financial structures makes a lot of sense and the Glazers have assets to back it. The ultimate test is Sir Alex and our success under the Glazers. If you think you know football, judge the Glazers on the success of our football and your gut feel on Sir Alex's character not to put up with an interference. Don't seek to learn corporate finance from a blog.

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  • 74. At 06:03am on 11 Mar 2010, Phil wrote:

    Lets hope the Glazers bankrupt Utd. It would be a happy happy happy happy happy day. Its never going to happen though as they are not that stupid (sadly) Then Abramovich can up sticks and leave Chel$ki in the mire to boot. Likewise with Citys sheikhs. Maybe we would then finally have a more level playing surface where money doesnt rule as much. Because currently the Premier League SUCKS unless you follow one of the 'Big 3' (Liverpool fans, dont kid yourselves) No one else has a cat in hells chance and its all down to money. Gone are the days when a club like Leeds could win the league on a relative shoestring (91-92) Utd fans are idiots bemoaning what the Glazers have achieved - how many trophies have you won under their ownership?

    Now if Rooney was sold off for to 'balance the books', things could get interesting.... It would be a refreshing change for Utd to have to sell their players - all the smug gits that love tauting other fans for being their 'feeder club'. Maybe it would be nice to get a piece of your own medicine. Im glad that 80 million from Ronaldo's sale went into paying off the Glazers debts and giving out loans to his kids. Serves you right, and gives you a taste of what other fans have to put up with

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  • 75. At 08:32am on 11 Mar 2010, SAMG23 wrote:

    At 7:14pm on 10 Mar 2010, NEARPOSTHEADER wrote:

    profits and the fans will continue to stump up for their season tickets. A friend just attended the Real v Sevilla game and she paid over 100 euros per ticket, so maybe things aren't so expensive in the UK after all.


    -----------------------------------------------

    That match would have been well worth 100 euros though! great game!

    LOVE UTD, HATE GLAZERS

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  • 76. At 08:35am on 11 Mar 2010, Tony wrote:

    19.SteveTreacle wrote:

    I wonder what their fans would have felt had their team (like my team, Gillingham FC) almost gone out of the league then out of business a few years back. What would the "loyal" yellow and green-clad buffoons have felt had their club been in the financial position of Chester, Bournemouth, Rotherham, Luton etc of recent times, or had their club upped and moved 80 miles like Wimbledon?
    ----------------------
    God you're an idiot, that's exactly what they're worried about, that's exactly why they're protesting to try and stop that happening. You have enough of a brain to work that out, but obviously not enough to follow your thoughst through to their logical conclusion.

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  • 77. At 08:35am on 11 Mar 2010, birdie33 wrote:

    Finally Manchester United supporters have recognised that real fans wear green and yellow.......up the Canaries!

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  • 78. At 08:42am on 11 Mar 2010, Roy wrote:

    I see that Delia Smith is also shares the same sentiments.

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  • 79. At 08:42am on 11 Mar 2010, Tony wrote:

    13.YX wrote:
    ......(i suppose also the ignorant ones are complaining that the Glazers are American). debt is only a problem if it is not affordable.
    -------------------
    I don't honestly think anyone cares one hoot about the nationality of the Glazers. The debt is only affordable at the moment, while we're successfull and while we're using spare cash to service the debt.

    Nothing lasts forever (ask Liverpool supporters), there will eventually be a decline, hastened by a lack of money to improve the squad and then, will the debt be affordable?

    The Glazers don't have the choice of EITHER servicing the debt Or improving the squad, they HAVE to pay the debt.

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  • 80. At 08:48am on 11 Mar 2010, SAMG23 wrote:

    74. At 06:03am on 11 Mar 2010, Phil wrote:

    -----------------------------------

    Pipe it you bitter old man :)

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  • 81. At 09:02am on 11 Mar 2010, paul hewson wrote:

    Forever the fashion guru, I am sure Posh told him that Red & Black scarves were so out of touch this fashion season.

    Not like Beckham to jump on the wrong bandwagon is it....

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  • 82. At 09:05am on 11 Mar 2010, yottskry wrote:

    @74 (Phil)

    Hang on... unlike City and Chelsea, every penny United have in their transfer kitty has come from great performances and success ON the pitch, all starting with that first FA Cup win that kept Fergie in his job 20 odd years ago and continuing with those first few league triumphs. If other clubs had won several league titles in a short space of time they could be in United's position right now. So, bitter as you are, don't try to lump United in with the nouveaux riche of City and Chelsea (calling them Chel$ski just makes you look childish).

    "Utd fans are idiots bemoaning what the Glazers have achieved - how many trophies have you won under their ownership?"

    Those trophies have been won DESPITE, not BECAUSE OF, the Glazers' ownership, and we bemoan them because we care about the club and the football, rather than the money and we want to see owners who also care about the club and football rather than using United as a cash cow to pay off their own debts.

    If Rooney were sold it wouldn't make that much difference. Maybe we'd have to wait a while for another trophy, but the one constant that has brought success over the years - Sir Alex Ferguson - is still there and he'd simply build another team from youth as he's done before.

    "Serves you right, and gives you a taste of what other fans have to put up with"

    Serves us right for WHAT? We, the fans, have no say in the running of the club, how the money comes in or goes out, or which players to buy or sell. Your last sentence just sums up your childish attitude.

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  • 83. At 09:14am on 11 Mar 2010, Alastair wrote:

    redshirt7. The cheaper scarves, hats and badges are available from MUST direct. There is usually a stall outside Trafford House on matchdays. All money received goes directly into the Glazer Out campaign fund.

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  • 84. At 09:19am on 11 Mar 2010, BeautifulGame wrote:

    Good job James, but you are only telling what is already known to most of us red devil's fans.

    Rather it would be more interesting to see if you could elaborate on the things that will happen at old traford after the take over if it hapens.

    I have been a Manchester united supporter from the day i started watching Premier league, was there when they won the trible in 99 and also was there when they did not get any silverware. What will happen after sir Alex retires, nobody knows and who will be the successor.

    If the green and gold people do infact buy MUFC, then will they make effective signings (playmakers) for the vacant place left by Ronaldo and Tevez as Nani is still young (he is somehwere at the stage where Ronaldo was when he started at old trafford).

    Glory Glory MUFC.

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  • 85. At 11:49am on 11 Mar 2010, LordSirSteveTreacle wrote:

    @82 - Yottskry

    "Hang on... unlike City and Chelsea, every penny United have in their transfer kitty has come from great performances and success ON the pitch, all starting with that first FA Cup win that kept Fergie in his job 20 odd years ago and continuing with those first few league triumphs."

    Memories are short - Just because Man Utd didn't get a rich owner in the 90s or 00s like Chelsea and City does not mean they haven't bought success: they have always done so. Man Utd won nothing in the 80s and little in the 70s, yet were bankrolled and tried to buy success by outspending every one else, yet in the 70s and 80s this was largely unsuccessful. They carried it on in the 90s with greater success and now their fans don't like it as other clubs are treading on United's demain of getting bankrolled and buying silverware - i.e. Chelsea and maybe City in the future!!!

    As I, the enigmatic Steve Treacle, mentioned earlier (at #19) Man Utd's largely gloryhunter following really have got very little to moan about!

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  • 86. At 11:54am on 11 Mar 2010, yellowgreenred wrote:

    To all the Man U fans who hate foreign investors; you don't mind foreign money when you are trying to flog your 'brand' all over the world and claim you are the world's No.1 club, in other words milking money from countries afar to then print oodles more cash but you don't like it when foreign businessmen buy into your club. You can't have it both ways. How many scarves do you need to sell to buy a football club anyway?

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  • 87. At 11:55am on 11 Mar 2010, LordSirSteveTreacle wrote:

    @84

    "I have been a Manchester united supporter from the day i started watching Premier league..."

    Great affinity with the club then; it is clearly in your blood!!!

    "was there when they won the trible in 99 and also was there when they did not get any silverware."

    You've obviously been there through the thick and thin - the Chester City, Bournemouth and Luton fans have got nothing on you!!!

    "Glory Glory MUFC." - Errr, I think Glory... glory... gloryhunter is more apt!

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  • 88. At 12:24pm on 11 Mar 2010, United Dreamer wrote:

    "47. At 6:23pm on 10 Mar 2010, davidgilmourthe3rd wrote:
    Dis-united 1 Milan 4

    as for what beckham has to say who really gives a fig he has become one big yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn

    i expect a very " old traffordish " game a very " old traffordish " ref

    having said that I expect dis-united to crash out.

    "

    I feel smug - thanks DG3

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  • 89. At 12:28pm on 11 Mar 2010, United Dreamer wrote:

    "54. At 6:57pm on 10 Mar 2010, redraaj wrote:
    @38

    virtually everyone made a loss its called the recession
    "

    Don't talk rot. Our revenue was up that year!

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  • 90. At 3:17pm on 11 Mar 2010, mark wrote:

    I do belive the fans have to have a voice. But for to miss the first 10 mins (that didnt happen) of any other games how will this affect the glazer's. A sell out crowd that have already paid for the ticket's. So they will get the financial backing of bemeused supporter's. Lets hope they dont also own the sweat shop's making the scarf's that the fan's are buying!

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  • 91. At 3:42pm on 11 Mar 2010, Leah Jessep wrote:

    Green and Gold 'Til we Die Or Fold!

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