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Is it time for the US to re-think their Israeli-Palestinian strategy?

09:57 UK time, Saturday, 11 December 2010

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has expressed frustration at the latest setback to Israeli-Palestinian peace talks but insisted that the US would continue to push for progress.

She vowed to promote indirect talks on "core issues" including borders, settlements, refugees and Jerusalem.

Direct talks were set up by President Barack Obama but were suspended within weeks when Israel decided not to extend the 10-month freeze on settlement building in the West Bank.

What can the US do to get the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks back on? Do they need to re-think their strategy?

This debate has now been closed. Thank you for your comments.

Comments

Page 1 of 5

  • Comment number 1.

    This again?

    Unfortunately European media headed by the BBC have been pretty one-sided in their coverage of the conflict over a number of years and it seems to be getting worse.

    What we're seeing is the same duplicitous game being played by the Arabs over negotiations. They demanded a freeze of settlements before taking. Israel then froze settlements for 10 months. The Arabs refused to talk during that 10 months and carried out several terror attacks and the rockets kept coming.

    When the settlement freeze ended, the 'palestinians' then claimed that they would only talk if the settlements were frozen. This is just a stalling tactic that they have used over and over again.

    Even one of Israel's sworn enemies Assad of Syria said that the settlement issue shouldn't be a pre-condition for talks.

    Another thing worth nothing is that the building in these towns/villages that are referred to as 'settlements', is actually taking place within the boundaries of these settlements. It's not new settlements being built on new land.

    I'm still perplexed as to why a country which has been attacked in several wars of attempted annihilation (the Arabs talks of wiping the Jews out) and has heroically and bravely defended itself against all odds, is being internationally punished for winning wars.

    I don't see other countries being punished for winning. I don't see America handing back Texas which it won after a Mexican attack.

    There were wars. Arab refugees as well as a greater number of Jewish refugees were created. Israel took in their Jewish refugees, the Arabs refused to take in their refugees.

  • Comment number 2.

    I'm sure the US are constantly reviewing and adapting all their foreign affairs strategies. Did you mean 'is it time for the US to enforce a middle east solution'?

  • Comment number 3.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 4.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 5.

    BBC, no offence - but this is the second such debate in a few days and the other one is still open. Even the BBC's most ardent supporters are starting to question this fascination you have with Israel.

    There are 56 Islamic countries in the world. There are 22 Arab countries in the world. They cover large areas of the earth's land. There is just 1 state for Jews. It's the size of Wales and is 350 times smaller than the land of its Arab neighbours.

    Can we please stop obsessing over this and allow the Jews one tiny patch of land on the edge of the sea please?

    There are other conflicts and other stories to debate.

  • Comment number 6.

    Dangerous game that.

    A recent poll of Palestinian opinion showed that the majority favoured a two state solution only as a precursor to a future one state of Palestine on top of Israel.

    Most have not given up their dream of destroying Israel. Arafat famously said they would take Israel "piece by piece". I worry for Israel that the international community could enforce indefensible borders and we'd end up with another genocide.

    I think it's time for a totally radical shift in policy and ideas. Jordan is majority Palestinian. It was going to be part of a Palestine before the Arabs went to war. Jordan should be negotiating with Israel over the West Bank (after all, it was in their hands up until 1967) and Egypt should retake Gaza.

    That's the only fair solution and it will pretty much revert back to the situation pre-1967, obviously with changes here band there.

    =================
    forclarification wrote:

    I'm sure the US are constantly reviewing and adapting all their foreign affairs strategies. Did you mean 'is it time for the US to enforce a middle east solution'?

  • Comment number 7.

    I think the US should stop giving money and supporting Israel, and simply let nature take its course, whatever the outcome. It shouldn't really be any of our business, and the only reason this conflict has been dragged out for decades is simply because of the West's continued meddling.

  • Comment number 8.

    "Think"? They just follow the money!

  • Comment number 9.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 10.

    maybe it's the right time to look at this problem from a palestinian perpective?maybe israel took time out to reflect on the way to peace and give,just a little,in the name of jeohva and love.shalem!!

  • Comment number 11.

    Is it time for the US to re-think their Israeli-Palestinian strategy? Yes. Let both sides slug it out by themselves. Both sides hate each other so there will never be a peace.

  • Comment number 12.

    What "will" the US do?
    Whatever the Israeli lobby tells it to do.

  • Comment number 13.

    Not this AGAIN. The best thing the USA can do is keep their noses out & stop supplying one side with arms.

  • Comment number 14.

    Should the US change its strategy? It depends, what is the real strategy? If it's to be an honest peace broker, certainly the strategy should change. If it's to increase the land mass of Israel and keep conflict in the region, it's working fine.

  • Comment number 15.

    "
    13. At 12:51pm on 11 Dec 2010, Queen_Becci_B wrote:

    Not this AGAIN. The best thing the USA can do is keep their noses out & stop supplying one side with arms.
    "

    Yes, they should sell arms to both sides, this would make more money.

  • Comment number 16.

    What's the point?
    The USA has proven its total incompetence during the course of this misery over and over again...

  • Comment number 17.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 18.

    it is not right to include jehova in the cross fire between arab and jew.The plain truth is that all deals made between israel and their neighbours is made by man and if you love your neighbour then call a halt to the killings and when ready to chat to one another about land marks,there should be no reference made to negative progress,if the one wants the other to accept better terms for all time instead of preaching about new tactics of superior and insulting preconditions just to settle an arguement.Governments waste time and money and lives just to prove how notorius the will of government is able to scramble negotiations when talks have been shut down.

  • Comment number 19.

    Time for the US to rethink it's strategy ! visa vi Israel/ Palestine, one must first ask WHAT STRATEGY ?. from what I have observed so far, is the complete lack of any strategy, just a rubber stamp for the Israeli position, The US up to now has been anything but a force for good in the region, preferring to arm Israel to the teeth with weapons of mass destruction, the EU are just as culpable too, preferring to go along with the Americans. When are those who want peace, going to stand up and say enough is enough, and here I am talking about the people we elect, get some backbone and do the right thing, even if it means sanctions against Israel.

  • Comment number 20.

    15. At 1:04pm on 11 Dec 2010, Kuradi Vitukari wrote:

    "
    13. At 12:51pm on 11 Dec 2010, Queen_Becci_B wrote:

    Not this AGAIN. The best thing the USA can do is keep their noses out & stop supplying one side with arms.
    "

    Yes, they should sell arms to both sides, this would make more money.

    ---------------------------

    Kuradi, are you a Ferengi? Your suggestion sounds suspiciously like Rule of Aquisition 127 – Stay neutral in conflict so that you can sell supplies to both sides.

  • Comment number 21.


    Of course they should. They should firstly make sure that they have good Arabic speaking experts who will be able to correctly translate the messages the Palestinian leaders in Arabic, and show the US (and British, French etc.) administrations, that these leaders are saying one thing in English and the opposite to their fellow Arabs.

  • Comment number 22.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 23.

    Is it time for the US to re-think their Israeli-Palestinian strategy?

    Yes. It is time for our Government to stop supporting Israel and start supporting the Palestinians who have lost everything to the Israelis who have broken every U.N. mandate that has been imposed upon them. Israel should find another place to live.

    That would solve everything.

  • Comment number 24.

    U.S can do anything at any time of the day or night but they cannot do anything to do justice with the Palestine and get them what all belongs to them. On the contrary it is all preplanned by israel and U.S to squeeze more and more from the Palestine despite knowing that they (Palestine) do not have anything with them and everything what all belongs to Palestine is with israel only. Whole worlds muslims are hurt by way of U.S being so strong are doing injustice with the weakest and unarmed civilians of Palestine.

  • Comment number 25.

    Is it time for the US to re-think their Israeli-Palestinian strategy?
    I can't believe this question is being asked! It's way past time for the US to re-think their Israeli-Palestinian startegy; in fact, it's very likely too late. Where was the US when Israel was building its great wall, effectively turning Gaza into a ghetto where people could be starved and deprived, and hopefully - in due course - just illiminate themselves through natural causes?
    US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton statement about her frustration at the latest setback to Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, her insistence that the US will continue to push for progress is laughable...or maybe too incredibly sad for words. Clinton vowed to promote indirect talks on "core issues". Has she not seen the pock marks of settlements interjected all over the so-called future Palestinian State. What would be the world reaction if it was the Palestinians offering such a state to Israel?
    Direct talks were set up by President Barack Obama but were suspended within weeks when Israel decided not to extend the 10-month freeze on settlement building in the West Bank. What did Obama do then? Did he roll up his sleaves, jump in with both feet ready to emit profound wisdom from between his lips, even though one lip is slightly swollen from getting whacked playing basketball?
    Nope, he has Clinton intervene.
    What can the US do to get the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks back on? Stop it's unconditional support - cut the funding, cut the weaponry, cut, cut, cut - until Israel realizes that something has happened here: The Americans are actually capable of hurting the great "self-defence" of Israel.
    But don't look for this to happen...

  • Comment number 26.

    The US gives more in 'aid' (3-5 billions each year) to Israel than any other nation...... does this tell you something? Does this reality paint any kind of picture of how likely it is the Palestinians will ever get any justice?

  • Comment number 27.

    country - singular
    countries - plural

    Hey, BBC, you must do better than this mangled sentence: "Is it time for the US to re-think their Israeli-Palestinian strategy?"

    The USA is singular, so the question needs to read
    "Is it time for the US to re-think itsIsraeli-Palestinian strategy?"

  • Comment number 28.

    Hey, MobSix, the pattern of response then quote makes no sense as people

    read

    down

    the

    screen.

    I'm just pointing out that if you write in the opposite direction to how people read.



  • Comment number 29.

    No, no, they should not rethink it. It is such a roaring success as it is.

  • Comment number 30.

    I doubt that there are any present negotiable conditions under which Israel will allow a Palestinian State. Both the Israelis and Palestinians are far too entrenched in their positions to find a solution. The US would like to find a resolution to the problem but are well aware that there isn't one. Expect lots of talk but little progress.

  • Comment number 31.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 32.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 33.

    "17. At 1:19pm on 11 Dec 2010, MobSix wrote:
    How do you square that with the fact that Israel's land mass is now almost 75% less than it was after 1967?..."

    Brainwash again.
    What you grab, you may lose.
    Ref to Spain, Portugal, France, Japan, Netherlands, Belgium, etc...


  • Comment number 34.

    Yes it is.They can start by being EVENHANDED.Israel is building homes on STOLEN land.As long as settlements continue to be built on STOLEN land there is no hope of peace.Israel ignores UN resolutions why does America continue to bankroll these criminals? As it is there is nothing for the Palistinians to talk about.How many innocent Americans have been killed because of their governments blind support of Israel.When Israel murdered aid workers what did America do??? It is time America stopped appeasing these thugs.Israel will only talk seriously when they have to

  • Comment number 35.

    The US and UK gave arab land to Isrealis, and wonder why the arabs are upset. Perhaps the US and UK should have given a state (NC?) to the Isrealis as the new Isreal - imagine the fighting inside the state, and the support from the surrounding US states.

  • Comment number 36.

    12. At 12:47pm on 11 Dec 2010, SudburySaturdayNight wrote:

    What "will" the US do?
    Whatever the Israeli lobby tells it to do.

    ----------

    Well said. The Israeli lobby's influence over American foreign policy is staggering. The US was prepared to give Israel hundreds of millions of dollars worth of fighter jets for free simply to extend their settlements freeze by a few months. Meanwhile, it's running a trillion dollar deficit, and millions of Americans are out of work. Go figure.

  • Comment number 37.

    Funny thing will be when America truly realises the mess their in and watch as Israel sidesteps away laughing as they find another host to leech off, then again, hedging your bets with America and Russia will always make the banker the winner...

  • Comment number 38.

    Land captured in a war thrust on Israel, can hardly be described as "stolen" by any rational being.


    -------
    adrian wrote:

    Yes it is.They can start by being EVENHANDED.Israel is building homes on STOLEN land

  • Comment number 39.

    The UN mandate of 'palestine' was put to a vote of nations and the majority voted to create two states. One for Jews with about 22% of the land, and one for Arabs with about 78% of the land. The Arabs wanted 100% of the land and declared war. A war which they lost.

    Neither the US nor the UK "gave" land to Israel.

    And the Arabs did not own 'palestine' or govern it. The territory was not theirs to decide what would happen to it.

    --------
    mel01c wrote:

    The US and UK gave arab land to Isrealis,

  • Comment number 40.

    "Is it time for the US to rethink it's Palestinian and Israel strategy"? is the BBC HYS question.I

    Is it not time for Palestine and Israel to have a different peace broker?

    For too long, the US government have been the open broker, with all the sly brokers, of many nations, behind the scenes.

    Is it now time for the US to open a new and more open debate with ALL nations and immediate neighbours surrounding Israel and Palestine - perhaps?

    Such an organisation might be called - Palestine, Israel, International Political Co-operation. PIIIPC?





  • Comment number 41.

    *

    AMERICAN PEOPLE MUST REALIZE :

    -THEY ARE FACING ISOLATION BECAUSE OF ISRAEL
    - THEY ARE IN FINANCIAL CRISES BECAUSE OF ISRAEL
    -THEY HAVE BEEN USING VETO AGAINST THE VOICE OF MAJORITY JUST TO SAVE ISRAEL -PLEASE REMEMBER VOICE OF MAJORITY IS THE VOICE OF GOD .DON'T MISUSE VETO --ALMIGHTY IS WATCHING
    -BUSH WENT TO WAR ONLY BECAUSE OF ISRAEL .HOW MANY INNOCENTS KILLED IN IRAQ?
    ************************************************************************** AMERICA SHOULD CHANGE THE POLICY - SHOULD NOT ARM ISRAEL ANY MORE , SHOULD NOT USE VETO .

    * 4% JEWS ARE CONTROLLING 40% ECONOMY OF AMERICA -WHY ?

    *SOVIET UNION IS NO MORE , PETROL WILL NOT LAST FOR LONG
    ***********************************************************

    PLEASE RISE ABOVE MEANING LESS BARRIERS AND CHANGE COURSE AND SEE TO IT THAT YOUR ECONOMY IS NOT COLLAPSED BECAUSE OF ISRAEL ANY MORE

  • Comment number 42.

    Seriously. What's wrong with people today?

    We have people commenting, then showing the quote -- like we never do on HYS.

    Now the USA has become plural. Excuse me, but the US is a country and country is singular.

    If a country is now plural (presumably as it contains people -- plural!), then everything is now plural because things contain atoms.

    If that is so, then I *are* a Dutchman and Holland *are* my home.

  • Comment number 43.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 44.

    Wow, two Middle East debates going at the same time, you would think everything that can be possibly be said on the subject of the ME has been re-hashed multiple times over at this stage.

    Perhaps people should just copy and paste their comments from other Middle East HYS, it is not like anyone has any new original comments to offer anymore.

  • Comment number 45.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 46.

    We in Europe spent centuries trying for define 'just borders' between nations. Each final peace treaty simply sowed the seeds of the next war, and each war was more depraved than the last.

    Eventaully we came to the conclusion that there is no just solution to whether Londonderry is 'really' British or Cologne is actually German. The best we can do is create political structures to make these questions less important and not worth resorting to violence to solve.

    Could this happen in the Middle East? A start would be for Hebrew culture to be internationally recognised as being indiginious to Syria-Palestina, and for Israel as a nation with a large Arab-speaking population to be invited to join the Arab League. (Oh look, a kosher pig just flew past..)

  • Comment number 47.

    12. At 12:47pm on 11 Dec 2010, SudburySaturdayNight wrote:

    What "will" the US do?
    Whatever the Israeli lobby tells it to do.

    = = = = = = =

    Totally agree - and I'm a Jew - Many people don't realise that many Jews in Israel want a removal of "settlers" AKA occupiers from the Occupied States and a settlement of the Border. Not a continual occupation. The only option the Palestinians have is guerilla warfare. Just like the IRA had in Ireland until there was a political settlement.


  • Comment number 48.

    45. At 3:47pm on 11 Dec 2010, abraham wrote:
    ...THE CRUX OF THE PROBLEM IS THE MYTH-
    "CHOSEN PEOPLE"

    Just a question:
    Who stops you to choose yourself?

  • Comment number 49.

    I cannot find any record that plans have been drawn up for Israeli officials to negotiate in Washington, nor for the Palestinian officials to negotiate in Washington. So what is this heap big conference that is supposed to occur?
    A Palestinian official said the two sides are not scheduled to hold: "any kind of bilateral meetings".
    Salam Feyadh, the Palestinian Authority's Caretaker PM and Chief Palestinian Negotiator Saeb Erekat are in Washington in response to the US "alleged" interest in reviving talks. In other words, they have been summoned, but nothing has been arranged beyond that.
    Washington has quit pressing Israel over settlements saying that: “a moratorium extension will not at this time determine the best basis for resuming direct negotiations." Oh, isn't this the very issue that is holding up further negotiations? What does the US plan to talk to Israel about? How many more settlements it can build before Palestinians simply give up?
    The Palestinians say (and I believe correctly) that the settlement activities are being carried out to PREVENT the establishment of a viable Palestinian State.
    Meanwhile, Brazil and Argentina have recognized Palestine. Uruguay and France have vouched to follow suit shortly.
    I wish some journalist would ask the American powers that be
    1. what these proposed talks are going to entail, or
    2. whether thay are even going to happen.

  • Comment number 50.

    Israel is "screaming" for US help to attack Iran's civillian nuclear facilities. This is what they want. Nothing else. Obama's only chance for a peace deal between Israel and Palestine is to give Israel "whatever" it demands.
    America gave them nuclear bombs (Everyone knows they didn't manage that one on their own:)
    And so Obama will support them in an attack on Iran in ordeer to get the deal. (2011 is going to be an interesting year).
    Iran has every right to develop and refine it's own nuclear fuel. But that doesn't matter to anyone. International law was tossed out a long time ago. Our world is run without rules. Rules are enforced only when and where the guys with the big guns decide they want them enforced.
    And so....sadly.......... we will learn the hard way what that means for our children's future.

  • Comment number 51.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 52.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 53.

    electricdan wrote: "No, no, they should not rethink it. It is such a roaring success as it is."

    Nice one, Dan! Quite so.

    But if we ever do detect any slippage from the path of success, the US might think of cutting off ALL aid to Israel until they stop building settlements.

    Pigs might also fly.

  • Comment number 54.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 55.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 56.

    US need to rethink and reinvent itself not only in the middle east policy but in all forieng policy priorities.

  • Comment number 57.

    The eradication of Palestine by Israel is an international crime that must be stopped.
    Lobby your government to recognize the state of Palestine based on pre-1967 borders.

  • Comment number 58.

    What American strategy? It never existed! If you call American slavish servitude to Israel a strategy then its the relationship of a galley slave to its master. The US has NEVER beem serious about anything involving the Palestinains the Jewish Washington Lobby AIPAC has made sure of that by blocking even the suggestion let alone official US adoption of a truely tougher stance towards Israel. This eternal charade of the Middle East "peace process" is a public relations comedy for buffoons the Israelis have been permitted to get away with outrageous human rights violations on a grand scale committing war crimes and arrogantly flaunting all UN resolutions on the matter because Uncle Stupid Sam will come to Israel's rescue by vetoing any UN sanctions or declarations. Secretary Clinton is truely disengenuous in her remarks the woman is a unabashed lair feigning "frustration" at the lack of progress. What progress can there be when appeaser Obama has unilaterally withdrawn his previous timid demand that Israel stop building new settlements on stolen Palestinian land? The man has shamefully peed in his pants when confronting Netanyahu! Obama does not have the spine of a man to be president he is a fraud an illusion to his supporters. Israel has no incentive to act civilized it practically throws mud in Obama's face and laughs at the lack of American reaction as it did to Vice President Biden when he visited Israel. The recent joint statement issued by former european leaders and ex-diplomats that the EU take a harsher stance towards Israel by imposing its own EU sanctions against that country has been immediately countered by the US with a cowardly compliant reply coming from current sitting EU leaders. This one little country Israel is creating endless trouble for world peace, it is always at the crux of Mid-east wars, and its influence on US foreign policy is all out of proportion to its importance even population. What Israel truely needs is a fifty year embargo like that on Cuba a country that never deserved it in the first place except for American western hemisphere imperial hubris. The Palestinians have a right to a unified state free from Zionist interference and more nations around the world are declaring their recognition of that state as Argentina has just lately done. The world is getting fed up of Israel's duplicitous charade. The only country that supports Israel literaly on the back of its bovine taxpayers is the US no other. Stupid is as stupid does. As for Secretary Clinton she has deliberately made herself a total nonentity in the Israeli-Palestinian matter which was probably the American "startegy" from the start. The muslim world has been snookered by Obama and his meaningless rhetoric.

  • Comment number 59.

    Worldcitizen1 wrote:
    " Israel should find another place to live."

    WheneverTheWhether wrote:
    "...Israel ... laughing as they find another host to leech off ... always make the banker the winner..."

    abraham wrote:
    "...SEE TO IT THAT YOUR ECONOMY IS NOT COLLAPSED BECAUSE OF ISRAEL ANY MORE ..."

    The first quote says Israelis should be deported out of Arab Palestine. The second quote presents the Jewish bankers as international leeches. The third quote blames the economic crisis on the Jews.
    The reason I am bringing in these quotes is that I don't agree with the usual description of anti-Israel activists as leftists. These are not words of leftists, these are classic National Socialist ideas.

  • Comment number 60.

    Resolution 242 wrote:

    The eradication of Palestine by Israel is an international crime that must be stopped.
    Lobby your government to recognize the state of Palestine based on pre-1967 borders.

    ------------

    The UN voted to carve the region called Palestine into two countries for two peoples.

    The only reason we don't have a Palestinian country today, is because the Arabs decided they wanted 100% of the land and waged a war which they lost.

    Today's Palestine is named Jordan.

  • Comment number 61.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 62.

    Oh, for God's sake - yap, yap and bad and childish behaviour from so-called representatives of Palestinians and Israelis - who are not the centre of planet earth.

    90% of ordinary Palestinians and Isralis work and live together, but the media don't report that.

    Why is America so openly considered as the peace brokers between these two factions. Are the politicians of Palestinians and Israelis at fault?

    Do these politicians of both sides care about peace? Is it in their interests to promote division and cause distress upon their own ordinary people and children?

    For example: France, AS an EU member heavily imports nuclear expertise and vehicles to Iran whose government threatens ALL of the Middle East?

    Furthermore, France continues to be the major producer of weapons export to the Middle East, North Africa and globally.

    Indeed, why is the US NOT asking France to be part of peace talks as France makes the most money per capita, than America?

    Certain countries with strong post-colonial links in all areas of the Middle East and North Africa, like France, are not remotely interested in peace in the Middle East - their only concern are exports of arms and conflict to feed that need.



  • Comment number 63.

    *58/

    WELL WRITTEN

  • Comment number 64.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 65.

    "55. At 4:50pm on 11 Dec 2010, abraham wrote:
    ...MY DEAR,MYTHS WORKED DURING DARK DAYS. NOW MYTHS WILL NOT WORK . THIS IS A SCIENTIFIC ERA."

    You are truly right from certain point of view.
    But, the mistery is reserved, preserved, advocated and updated by the best minds money can buy. We are just amateurs...



  • Comment number 66.

    @59.
    So massacring and (deliberately??) misinterpreting three quotes from three different people allows you to conclude you are dealing with Nazi ideology?

    Is it deliberate and intended to mislead on your part, or do you have poor reading skills?

    Or is it a debating technique we see often here and is sometime scalled "reductio ad hitlerum"? Seriously.

    At face value, I would have to say you're being patronising.

  • Comment number 67.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 68.

    One cannot acheive peace without first acheiving justice.
    Land was robbed from Palestinians. They watched as thier houses were bull dozed into the ground, then were forbid from visiting their birth places.
    First make that wrong right, then talk about peace.

  • Comment number 69.

    Answering Phosgene's suggestion that I am doing "reductio ad hiterum":

    I have saved pictures showing members of Hezbollah and armed units of Hamas giving the Nazi "Heil Hitler" salute on their parades, on many different occasions. Unfortunately Have Your Say does not allow to post pictures, but they should not be that hard to find.

  • Comment number 70.

    I still find it very difficult what it has to do with the USA!

  • Comment number 71.

    Hillary Clinton couldn't arrange a peace treaty between Iceland and Greenland.She can see no wrong by Israel in spite of all the international laws they break.As far as letting them fight it out themselves it would be a matter wiping out the Palestinians with US weapons.There are groups of Palestinians and Jews who want a healthy relationship with each other.Why not include them in the peace process.Let common sense prevail.

  • Comment number 72.

    Pamwe Chete: For 38 and 39: Please my freind, war is against any Military of a country is won or lost and you say israel won the war aginst Palestine who do not have any Military and at the time of War they do not even had their Police force. I will say the fact is that israel has grabbed the land from the Palestine unarmed civilians. 2 years ago israel killed 1400 civilians in the name of war and defending israel from the unarmed civilians. Rockets fired by Palestine was as good as plastic toy for israel and Plaestinians by rockets were actually protesting against the injustice by israel by blocking their daily required food and other necessity items. israel will go on doing injustice with palestine and then israel do not want Palestine to protest against the injustice done by israel with Palestine. Palestine is asking from israel only what israel has grabbed from Palestine civilians. actually israel must return to palestinians not only what they have grabbed from 1967 but also from what they have grabbed from 1947 and all refugees made by israel must get their homes back on the same land. making refugee is also the wrong doing work of israel. Truth shall always prevail, More israel tries to hide their act of 1947 and try to elongate the peace treaty more parties like Hamas will born. Hamas is also legally elected party who are working for the good of their peoples of Palestine and israel do not like Hamas because they are asking for what all belongs to Palestine. israel must accept the really, no matter how much strong they are and how much support they have from U.S. Pressing already pressed people is not good and Morally wrong.

  • Comment number 73.

    59. At 5:10pm on 11 Dec 2010, skamble wrote:
    Worldcitizen1 wrote:
    " Israel should find another place to live."

    WheneverTheWhether wrote:
    "...Israel ... laughing as they find another host to leech off ... always make the banker the winner..."

    abraham wrote:
    "...SEE TO IT THAT YOUR ECONOMY IS NOT COLLAPSED BECAUSE OF ISRAEL ANY MORE ..."

    The first quote says Israelis should be deported out of Arab Palestine. The second quote presents the Jewish bankers as international leeches. The third quote blames the economic crisis on the Jews.
    The reason I am bringing in these quotes is that I don't agree with the usual description of anti-Israel activists as leftists. These are not words of leftists, these are classic National Socialist ideas.
    +=================================================================================+
    I'm not so sure one needs to be particularly affiliated with any political bent when observing the crimes of the world.

    I'm pretty sure anyone with a balanced moral compass would deduce that crime is a crime, no matter what imaginary friend they claim to have.

    Let's twist this into your line of thought and imagine if you will, if the Vatican were behind such powerful groups controlling the strings of the puppets in the United States' 'govern-ment' forcing their hand in criminal practices across the globe for their own deviant agenda, I'd dare say even the most devoutly religious of Italians would distance themselves from such crimes.


  • Comment number 74.

    67. At 5:29pm on 11 Dec 2010, MobSix wrote:
    "I think the problem is that you're already predisposed to agreeing with what are basically clearly racist posts that contain age-old stereotypes about Jews controlling banks, Jews leeching from countries and the rest of the dreadful slurs that 1930's Germany made even more popular.

    The fact you're arguing against skamble pointing out these hideous posts, says much more about you."
    -----
    And that is an opinion you are entitled to!

    However, based on my written posts here, you'll find I slate anti-Semites, support a negotiated peace and use reason -- instead of making personal comments like you just have -- to point out sub-par behaviour on this site. In short, real-world evidence indicates your claim is wrong.

    I had hoped for better from you. You have just dropped in my estimation.

  • Comment number 75.

    zevrapak wrote:

    Pamwe Chete: For 38 and 39: Please my freind, war is against any Military of a country is won or lost and you say israel won the war aginst Palestine who do not have any Military and at the time of War they do not even had their Police force.
    -------------


    In 1948, it was Jews who had no military. They had farmers, Kibbutzniks and Holocaust survivors against a multi-pronged attack by British trained regular armies from the surrounding Arab countries.

    So let's get some facts on the board here and stop painting the Palestinians as having never done anything wrong. They went to war on a promise to wipe the Jews from the middle east, and lost.

  • Comment number 76.

    The US has a strategy about Israel? I think that it works the other way about, Israel and particularly the Zionists have the atrategy about the US of A and they have been running rings around Washington for the past 62 years.

  • Comment number 77.

    It’s time for the US to join the rest of the world.
    Recognize Palestine within the 1967 borders.
    Enforce Resolution 242.

  • Comment number 78.

    So, MobSix, while I do not necessarily agree with any of these quoted comments, boiling an imaginary person or persons with Nazi sympathies out of them taken together this was is a claim too far. A exaggeration, in fact.

    So, MobSix, a challenge for you is to you present evidence -- that each of people who made the three quoted posts -- have Nazi beliefs -- then I will believe you.

    Personally, I would be surprised if you do manage to present any coherent evidence to back the claim at post 59.

  • Comment number 79.

    With pro-Israel interests much in control of U.S. policy and the U.S. providing Israel with the material means to enforce its will regarding the Palestinian issue, there will be no substantive change in the U.S.'s approach. Even the reported U.S. offer to Israel in which the U.S. would have given Israel enough aid of various sorts for it to control the entire Middle East in exchange for a three-month moratorium regarding illegal settlement building, reportedly refused by Israel, has not altered Israel's methodology. Situation for the foreseeable future - status quo.

  • Comment number 80.

    THIS SAYS IT ALL
    BBC, no offence - but this is the second such debate in a few days and the other one is still open. Even the BBC's most ardent supporters are starting to question this fascination you have with Israel.

    There are 56 Islamic countries in the world. There are 22 Arab countries in the world. They cover large areas of the earth's land. There is just 1 state for Jews. It's the size of Wales and is 350 times smaller than the land of its Arab neighbours.

    Can we please stop obsessing over this and allow the Jews one tiny patch of land on the edge of the sea please?
    BBC move along or get rid of the elderly left wing staff members ,as the BBC has become to partisan

  • Comment number 81.

    Israel's Foreign Ministry CONDEMNED as "highly regrettable" Argentina's announcement that it recognizes Palestine as "a free and independent state" within its borders prior to the 1967 Six-Day War.
    Foreign Ministry Spokesman, Yigal Palmor: The decision was highly "damaging," "because they are in fact shattering the foundation of the peace process."
    What exactly was it that shattered the peace process
    - the recognition of Palestine or
    - with borders prior to the 1967 Six-Day War, or
    - both?
    Apparently, the recognition while peace negotiations are still ongoing (and no final peace deal agreement has been reached): "is contrary to the existing legal framework of the peace process."
    That legal framework demands that a permanent solution to the conflict, including the establishment of a Palestinian state, can only be the result of negotiations and mutually agreed solutions.
    Foreign Ministry Spokesman, Yigal Palmor: The Argentine declaration did not affect the real situation on the ground, nor did it help the Palestinians because it did nothing to promote Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation.
    Foreign Ministry Spokesman, Yigal Palmor: "We have embassies and we have made our opinions known to the local authorities through our diplomats."
    The announcement by the Argentine government followed Brazil's declaration of recognition.
    Abbas had visited both Brazil and Argentina last year.
    Uruguay allegedly follows the policy line of its two larger neighbors, but it has yet to make a formal statement.
    Argentine President, Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner wrote to Abbas Monday to inform him of her government's decision to recognize "Palestine as a free and independent state within the borders that existed in 1967, and in accordance with what the parties decide in the course of the negotiation process."
    From what I have seen and heard, it is only these South American countries that have made any progress towards the declaration of Palestinian Statehood.
    So, I guess you could say "the talks" are in crisis, or maybe even submerged in the Dead Sea.

  • Comment number 82.

    The USA will continue to trade bootlicking with its Israeli friends - after all they both are mindless god-fearing 'believers'.

  • Comment number 83.

    SimpleOldSailor wrote:
    "The US has a strategy about Israel? I think that it works the other way about, Israel and particularly the Zionists have the atrategy about the US of A and they have been running rings around Washington for the past 62 years."

    Essentially, SimpleOldSailor says that the US government is manipulated by the Zionists.
    And the now the classic old version: The US government is manipulated by the Jewish bankers. This was in Der Stuermer, with many cartoons showing big-nosed Jewish bankers pulling the strings connected to the US government. The implication was that it's time for simple old folks to take their country back from the Jewish control.

    This is one more quote that connects the Zionist plots today to what was so eloquently put 70 years ago.

  • Comment number 84.

    american government officials are nothing more than marionettes danceing from the strings held by the zionist controled federal reserve bank. the zionists who OWN america demand absolute american support for israel. the american people must wake up to the fact that the federal reserve bank is privately owned (not federal in any way) and who ever conrols our money also controls our nation. therefore the federal reserve bank must be closed and the U.S. treasury given the authority to print our own debt free currency. if we cannot close this den of vipers and vultures, we will continue to suffer one economic disaster after another; and americans will continue to die in israeli/zionist wars.

  • Comment number 85.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 86.

    BluesBerry wrote about recognizing Palestine within its borders prior to the 1967 Six-Day War.

    Wait, wait, before 1967 the West Bank was a part of Jordan and Gaza was controlled by Egypt. If the Arab countries established a Palestinian state in West Bank and Gaza before 1967, the problem would have been resolved and the Six Day War would not even happen. This of course on condition that the Palestinian state would have observed the 1949 armistice that ended the war of 1948-1949.

  • Comment number 87.

    @ skamble

    Taken from Norman Finkelstein's website in his own words "The grandchildren of holocaust survivors from world war II are doing to the Palestinians exactly what was done to them by nazi Germany…"
    http://tinyurl.com/cga4n4

    Disgusting isn't it?

  • Comment number 88.

    It's time for the US to stay out of international affairs and focus on their own problems, surely wikileaks has pointed this out?

  • Comment number 89.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 90.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 91.

    WheneverTheWhether wrote:
    @ skamble

    Taken from Norman Finkelstein's website in his own words "The grandchildren of holocaust survivors from world war II are doing to the Palestinians exactly what was done to them by nazi Germany…"
    http://tinyurl.com/cga4n4

    Disgusting isn't it?

    My reply: if it was true that we, Israelis, are sending Palestinians to gas chambers it would be worse than disgusting, it would be the worst crime.

    If on the other hand this statement is not true, in other words a lie, than this is truly disgusting.

  • Comment number 92.

    If I knew what the US or Israeli or Palestinian stategy was I would post a comment..
    Not much point in doing that,when all of us are oblivious/confused as to who is telling us the biggest "porkies".
    One certain fact is..the USA,the UK,Israel and Palestinians elect Politicians to get things sorted out.
    And they never do what they were elected to do.

  • Comment number 93.

    Nothing like Over-Playing your hand for shooting yourself in the foot. Not only does Israel make US look-BAD, but they've effectively wrested the ball from US and threw it into World Court.

    Finally! Rest of Humanity have decided to do something on their Own Initiative by simply Recognising Palestine as a Country, which is a Natural precursor to Indicting Israel for Crimes-against-Humanity, War-Crimes, Genocide, whatever fits using Jewish precedents employed against Nazis.

    LAWLESSNESS is so ingrained in Israeli Society that many Question the Govt's Ability to make any Impositions. According to what's been happening on the ground and Internationally the Israeli Govt is a Special Interest FREE-For-ALL. Netanyahu is constantly Contradicted by cohorts or municipal 'Settler' interests without a whimper.
    There are acknowledged Organised Israeli Crime Figures negotiating International Security Contracts with other Nations as Affiliates of IDF.

  • Comment number 94.

    I propose a different title

    It is time for the world to rethink their Meade east strategy?
    How should the free world under attack defend itself?

    ME issues:
    *Arabs and Persians don’t accept that they cannot compete with the modernity.
    They consider themselves world leading cultures and empires
    They blame imaginary enemies for their status.

    *ME society is strongly driven by Islam religion.
    Religious groups claim that only radical Islam is the answer to all their problems.
    Unlike other main world culture that religion plays a minor role.

    *The radical militant Islamism acts to impose their ideology by all means.

    *Hate teaching in preaching is common in ME.

    *ME countries fund hate teaching and terror worldwide.

    *The governments are not providing answers to economic, unemployment, social services.

    *The ME governments are against –liberalism-democracy- human right- woman equality-
    Iran and Sunni militant groups declare that the west is on the final destruction phase.

    *The major ME conflicts are poorly covered by the politicians and the media:
    •Sunni- Shia religious conflict
    •Iran(Persia)-Arabs superiority desire.
    •Kurds in Turkey- Iraq-Iran
    •Decreasing water resources.
    •Civilian wars in Somalia-Yemen-Lebanon- Algeria
    •Population increase out of control and fiving solutions.

    Israel –Palestine is only a veil used by Arabs and Iranian for:
    - masking the problems and diverting the world focus from the many issues.
    - Masses unifying toll under dictators against imaginary enemies.
    ----
    wikileak disclosed:
    Arab leaders view Iran as existence strategic enemy.
    Arabs are funding worldwide terror infrastructure,
    Pakistan is an NUK mate mare.
    Arab leaders don’t connect the stopping of Iran (Persia) strategic rival to actions again Israel.

    President Obama policy was to link the forming a coalition with the Arabs states to stop Islamist Iran NUK projects to major Israel concessions.

    Wikileake disclosed: Arab leaders demand USA to stop Islamist Iran by any means without any connection to Israel

    President Obama knew first hand that is no such connection.

    Arab and Israel negotiated for year's discussing many issues, the settlement being one among many others
    Settlements were not an issue: on Oslo agreement, President Clinton+ Barak+ Arafat cape David summit and Taba discussion.
    On Taba negotiations – when Barak made an unprecedented offer to Arafat in exchange for a formal letter stating that the conflict is over and no additional future requirements will be made-:
    The Palestinians open the deadly terrorist war against Israeli civilian
    --
    Although knowing Arabs position Obama required Israel to give up major heritage and security assets,
    Obama divert the focus from the key issue from:

    !!!! Arabs refusal to recognize the Jewish right to a independent state in the 3500 years old homeland is the key peace blocking factor!!!.
    --- to a non key issue the settlements

    The result was Palestinians the facto negations stop.
    All the other are diverting issues from their refusal.
    ----
    Obama policy is not USA policy.
    *The Senate and House of representatives send a letter to President Obama requiring to change his Israeli policy.
    It has been sign by Democrats and Republicans:
    329 out of 435 members of the USA House of representative and
    87 out of 100 senators from Senate

  • Comment number 95.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 96.

    John Campbell wrote:
    "If I knew what the US or Israeli or Palestinian stategy was I would post a comment..
    Not much point in doing that,when all of us are oblivious/confused as to who is telling us the biggest "porkies".
    One certain fact is..the USA,the UK,Israel and Palestinians elect Politicians to get things sorted out.
    And they never do what they were elected to do."

    John Campbell, thank you for pointing out that it is absolutely essential to figure out what is true and what is not to even understand what is being discussed here.

    Now about the politicians: if it turns out that they lied, we can't do much about it immediately but at least we have the right to not vote for them again. This on condition that we have the right to vote in the first place, in other words, that we live in a democracy.

    The Palestinians who live in the West Bank have the Palestinian Authority, and the Palestinians in Gaza live in a society ruled by Hamas.
    There haven't been any elections in the last few years because Hamas took power in Gaza by force and intends to keep it.

    I believe in the Democratic Peace Theory that claims that democracies avoid wars with each other and instead find out peaceful ways to resolve their disputes. According to my belief, if the Palestinians managed to have a democratically elected government, our differences could somehow be worked out.

    Well, this is mostly a plug for democracy. Democracy did not too bad in the recent decades and now the world is roughly half democratic. There is still, for this participant, half way to go.

  • Comment number 97.

    What strategy???

    Israel does as it pleases.

  • Comment number 98.

    Israel does not want peace. They have the endless sympathy of the world so they continue to play the victim role and this means countries give them a "free pass" and choose to ignore their bad and often murderous behaviour. Until all people in industrialised nations wake up and see the Israelis for what they really are then their bad behaviour is tolerated and hidden by the world's media.

    Hillary did a good job. There is nothing more to be done with these people until they WANT peace. It's like an alcoholic or a drug addict - until they, themselves are ready to quit there is nothing anyone else can do.

    Now we need to move on and stop wasting taxpayer's money on this issue. Hillary needs to head home and start focusing her energies on problems in the US which fall under her remit as Secretary of State. I suggest her first priority should be sorting out the ridiculous SEVEN YEARS waiting time (yes I did say YEARS) that Registered Nurses have to wait to get a work visa to work in the US despite a current shortage of almost 200,000 nurses. This shortage is set to TRIPLE in the next 5 - 10 years as most current American Nurses are over 55 and are planning to retire. Politicians from both major parties have known about this issue for years and neither of them have done anything about it. When the whole US healthcare system collapses due to almost no nurses BOTH the Republicans and the Democrats need to take the blame.

  • Comment number 99.

    The Palestinians, funded by their large Arab brothers, Iran and Syria, will do as their masters bid. Until, and ONLY until, all Arab states recognize Israel as a legitimate country and recognize the Jewish people as human beings, NO PEACE will come about. Israel has made concessions time and again to what end? If the Arab states who started four wars and lost them all would readily admit that land captured in a war (there's only 1 winner) is the ultimate prize (what would they do if they had won - give it back?) maybe there'd be a chance for peace of sorts. The people who settled Israel before 1948 had barely escaped the greatest mass murder plan in history. Are the Palestinians and the Arabs so blind that they can't see history? The Jewish people have been around nearly 6000 YEARS! They're not leaving. Make peace Arabs. This may be your lat chance to look and act like statesmen.

  • Comment number 100.

    US has no viable foreign policy , it changes color like a chameleon. In a few years US will be completely broke (China will bankrupt it) and US will have no option but to drop ISREAL like a bad dream. Its time US and the rest let Palestinians & Isreal sort out their own mess.

 

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