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How can police forces be more efficient?

01:52 UK time, Monday, 26 July 2010

Home Secretary Theresa May has outlined plans for a massive shake-up in policing in England and Wales. What would you change in the police?

The proposals include a new National Crime Agency, which will focus on cross-border organised crime and drug trafficking and will replace the Serious Organised Crime Agency, which was set up by Labour four years ago.

At a local level, police and crime commissioners, who will have powers to set police force budgets, will be elected by the people in 2012. This measure has already met resistance from some senior police officers.

Do you agree with the new measures? Will elected commissioners work? What would you do to make the police forces more efficient?

Thank you for your comments. This debate is now closed.

Comments

Page 1 of 5

  • Comment number 1.

    I don't really see the point of having locally elected commissioners - we already elect parliamentarians to make our laws and councillors to spend our money. Why not add on the post to one of those? It might increase voter turn out, not to mention being more cost effective.

    Yes, there should be changes; and yes, the police should spend less time filling in paperwork, trying to hit targets, & nailing motorists. However, bringing in what will probably result in police resources being funnelled into blatant electioneering is not the right way to go...

  • Comment number 2.

    First, scrap laws which are useless / unenforceable.
    Examples include almost all drugs laws (hint: drug users don't care, and despite billions being wasted "banning" them, there are more drugs than ever).

    Then there's the badly thought out fox-hunting ban (which only seems to be there so the police can be laughed at as they try to enforce it...)

    Once pointless wastes of police time have been eliminated, perhaps they'll be able to tackle crimes where there are actual victims.

    I certainly don't see how "electing" a crime commissioner will help. Surely this should be sorted by someone with experience as a police officer instead?

  • Comment number 3.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 4.

    Do we really need to get rid of Soca? It strikes me it would make far more sense and be less wasteful of public funds to simply improve on Soca’s flaws and expand on their role. Setting up a whole new crime fighting agency sounds like an unnecessary waste of public funds, funds for which the Tories love to constantly remind us, we need to be sparing in allocating.

    As for the idea of elected commissioners, it sounds like a good idea on paper but it runs the risk of putting people in a position of power who know little if anything about policing and as I see it could become more of a hindrance then a benefit.

    If you want to make police forces more efficient you can start by cutting down on the bureaucracy that prevents them from doing their jobs, paperwork and so forth. Also bring back the beat bobby. Although when it comes to the justice system it isn't just the police service that needs shaking up but the whole justice system, properly enforced sentences and effective rehabilitation programmes for example.

  • Comment number 5.

    I think the police would be more efficient if they were armed like in nearly every other country. Our police force is reputed to be one of the best trained and best disciplined in the world and giving them firearms would allow them to deal with dangerous situations with more confidence, tackle armed criminals without need for a special firearms unit and make them much greater figures of authority allowing one or two officers to safely break up gangs of thugs without the need for back up.

    Of course getting rid of some of the bureaocracy would surely help as well, why fill in dozens of forms for a minor cautioning when the time could be spent preventing crime by officers being present on the streets.

  • Comment number 6.

    There needs to be a dedicated cyber-crime-cyber-terrorism agency.

  • Comment number 7.

    I think elected commissioners would introduce politics and problems to the police forces. Arming the police would do nothing, except to encourage criminals to arm themselves.

    One way to improve the police is to remove the paper work. I would think that universal expansion of the Helmet Cameras would reduce the paper work (See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7883479.stm%29.

    The biggest improvement you could have is to return to having 'bobbies on beat'. I would think that using helmet cameras and employing civilians to do non-law enforcement/patrol jobs would help with this. You don't need a (W)PC in the control room answering cameras or sending out fixed penalty notices.

  • Comment number 8.

    #5. At 03:07am on 26 Jul 2010, TopolX wrote:
    "I think the police would be more efficient if they were armed like in nearly every other country. Our police force is reputed to be one of the best trained and best disciplined in the world and giving them firearms would allow them to deal with dangerous situations with more confidence, tackle armed criminals without need for a special firearms unit and make them much greater figures of authority allowing one or two officers to safely break up gangs of thugs without the need for back up."

    Arming all UK police officers sounds like a good idea on paper but if I remember the statistics correctly about 90% of US police officers shot on duty are shot by their own guns.

    Sadly I think we're going down the route of all UK officers being armed anyway unless the Tories are able to put a lid on the violent/street crime problem we have in this country, so you may well get your wish!

  • Comment number 9.

    Chief Constables already have to report to the Police Authority in their county which is made up of county councillors and other interested parties so there is already local accountability - why waste more public money setting up commissioners?

  • Comment number 10.

    As a career criminal may I just say that the police can use all the technology and procedures they want but if they don't have the right personal then people like myself will remain at large. Where a crafty bunch!

  • Comment number 11.

    Get the police back on the beat and let them deal with the yobs and criminals like in the 1950s and 60s. The system worked well and we had only a small fraction of the problems we have today. However, if we want this (and we should), we have to get rid of the PC brigade. They are a menace.
    Peter D South Carolina

  • Comment number 12.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 13.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 14.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 15.

    A major move towards eliminating wasteful duplication would be the regionalisation of the forces.

    In NW England, we have five separate police forces for a population less than that of Greater London - each with its own chief constable, police authority, separate procedures and procurement.

    Yet only the Cumbria force still covers the same area as a democratically-elected county council. Given the vast increase in mobility since the last reform in 1974, county forces can no longer be regarded as meaningful policing units - they are now as outdated as the borough forces they absorbed in the 1960s.

  • Comment number 16.

    Don't get suckered into this American Style policing, under the guise of cost-cutting. Britain's new government will use 'the Deficit' to undermine all of the things that make Britain 'Great'. Don't go down this road. Do what you can to maintain the things that you think are important. There's no country that guarantees free speech more than Britain -- use it.

  • Comment number 17.

    "What would you do to make the police forces more efficient?" (HYS):

    Since the last Government failed SO dismally in listening to the People on the receiving end of Crime - I think it's now time that our new Government listened to them. The Public have already made their opinions known on this subject MANY times for MANY years now:

    In my opinion:
    Labours 'Human-Rights' Act is the PRIME cause of the inefficiecy in Policing - 'tying their hands' with 'Politically-correct' handcuffs has massively cut Police effectiveness. This Government should SERIOUSLY consider hand-cuffing both the 'HR' Laws AND it's terrible 'PC' twin to a much more common-sense and realistic level of importance - especailly when it comes to crime.
    The vast majority of the Public want less of this dogmatic rubbish that causes hell in their lives and leaves them at risk - but thanks to the Media - and it's self-serving love of HR & PC - Politicians seem more reluctant to upset the Media rather than protect the Public.
    Let's have most of this nonsense 'trimmed' and allow our Police to act.
    It's our softened-up, EU creche-minded Laws that are causing the problem.
    Time to get back to effective reality and imprison these pathetic 'Laws'.

    THEN get the Police SEEN on the Streets - ACTING immediately - NOT LATER.

    While the Public see's our Police having to act SO defensively against CRIMINALS - the Public will CONTINUE to have no confidence in them, and will not help them in their job...

    While most of us will agree with Theresa May's new plans - it is not enough - by FAR. She also needs to 'freed' from the other PC 'progressive handcuffs' - the LibDems influence in this problem...

  • Comment number 18.

    This is yet another frustrating link in the chain.. I am sick of checking the morning news to hear yet another story about the Police being battered left and right in an effort to 'save money'. Every since the new Government was elected it seems to be the ONLY focus.
    If saving cash is the main aim, understandably, things need to be done but PLEASE be reasonable! We are talking about peoples livelihoods here and I for one am in a constant state of worry!

    Ive commented before on this and Ill do it again!

    1. A NATIONAL Police Force!!!! This would save multi multi millions of pounds. There is no other country that works like we do! We should look to take ideas from Spain etc where it is run as one! It makes so much sense!
    2. It has been suggested that drugs such as Heroin etc are offered as part of an NHS type system....why on earth have we not done this years ago? Crime is 90% fuelled by the need for drugs and this would inevitably help would it not???

    I truly wish that the Government would see this as a viable option and start implementing it as it becoming more and more frustrating to see the country go down and down!

  • Comment number 19.

    Another government, another reorganization, oh goodie just what we need.

  • Comment number 20.

    Police can only be efficient if it is highly integrated and responsive to the local problems and finding community policing volunteers. At this time the inefficiency comes from lack of integration, there are too few minorities, this makes the minorities suspicious of the policemen and their intentions. The court systems have consistently punished the minorities with more jail and fines for similar crimes committed by the two groups, this in itself is not very wise. There has to be a overhaul of the entire judiciary to make it more accountable, approachable, affordable and diverse. The laws on punishments should get more stringent with rights of the criminals minimized till they learn to behave in society with accountability.

  • Comment number 21.

    I think it would be an encouraging start if the police could be trained to apologise with good grace for the occasional, but widely publicised, incidents in which they have exceeded their authority and stupidity.

  • Comment number 22.

    The opinions I have glanced at are exactly right: clean up SOCA, don't waste money on what will be little more than a new identity. Get rid of outdated or unenforceable laws: reduce the amount of paperwork: and bring back the 'Beat Bobby'. As for the public electing senior persons, this seems to me to be the first really goofy thing the new government have suggested. Top people should be appointed based on their experience and skills, and be independent of public opinion.

  • Comment number 23.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 24.

    It's not a question of efficiency it's a matter of cutting down on wasted budgets. My old force said no to paid overtime as they claimed they couldn't afford it and we'd have said time put on our time off card (which we never got to take due to working on minimum cover so it was lost time for us) yet in the March of one year they fully recarpetted at least two nicks on my division,to use up the budget so they could ask for more in the next financial year. Cleverly they ordered lightblue which was black after three weeks of everyone traipsing round in mucky boots so they could reorder. Took the mick somewhat!

    It would make sense to dispense with CSO's as realistically they can't actually do anything and employ more real coppers. Stick PC's on light duties in the control room (there's always lots due to injuries fom doing proper policing) and cut back on civvie staff. It's not rocket science!

  • Comment number 25.

    It is interesting to note that Theresa May wants more 'efficiency' but no mention of effectiveness. I assume efficiency is a euphemism for cheaper?

    If we want cheaper policing the answer is simple - ban overtime payments and instigate a robust absence management policy.

    An effective police force is another question entirely!!

  • Comment number 26.

    Easy peasy.

    No police pension to be worth more than 18,000 a year.
    No exceptions.

    The resources released for policing, will be massive.

    The current system only attracts the self-interested, and has now collapsed under the weight of it's own greed.

  • Comment number 27.

    Employ a more stringent intelligence test for applicants might help. I realise they're not all dim, but some make Homer Simpson seem a genius!

    Sherlock Holmes: A great detective relies on perception, intelligence, and imagination.
    Lestrade: [amused] Where'd you get that rubbish from?
    Sherlock Holmes: It's framed on the wall behind you.

  • Comment number 28.

    "How can police forces be more efficient?"


    How about removing the shackles of Political Correctness.

  • Comment number 29.

    Get rid of those community support officers and bring back phone numbers to local police stations, rather than a long wait on a central switchboard for the whole county. Also, bring back police powers to deal with nuisance neighbours and noise quickly, rather than have to deal with the slow bureacratic system involving local councils, which is now the system.

  • Comment number 30.

    1 National Police Service - essential & efficient - point 2.
    2 Reduce the number of Senior Police Ranks - why the need for the number of ACPO ranks & mid level ranks? The approach of the incoming Government has been to reduce some of the bureaucracy & targets & some Police Forces are devolving significant decision making powers to lower ranking officers & support staff & supporting this process with training. So let them get on with it - the public will soon complain if it's a wrong process/decision!!!
    3 Reduce the HR & Finance support element.
    4 Allow Police supervisors to generate their own charging decisions for all low/mid level offences. CPS to be brought in only to moderate these & for complex/serious/sensitive matters
    5 Don't go down the Elected Commissioner route - that's what Police Authorities are all about. This is pure political window dressing.
    6 Avoid the temptation to load investigation of offences with criteria for investigation - eg if it's under £xx we will not investigate, criminals are intelligent & can work out what they can get away with!!! An offence of say £25 value done 100 times is good money.

  • Comment number 31.

    I think rather than worrying about elected commissioners and so forth, that the Home Secretary should start promoting the ideas of merging the Police forces of England Wales and Scotland. Quite simply, one force for Wales, one for Scotland and England can merge to regional levels which is already set out within the Policing community - Each could easily be headed up by a regional Chief Constable thus redcing the numbers of such senior officers.

    Local policing will not be removed by merging - each town and city has set numbers of officers and this would not likely change as the calls on those officers will not change. A lot of back room functions which have large police staff numbers and various departments which are not frontline but are requried to have police officers in them can be merged. Police officers powers are not limited by county boundaries so why mess about with numerous forces chasing the same criminals who drive across borders. By merging the forces a standard set of IT systems which can talk to each other can be employed - no doubt this would cost but at the moment each force buys in or builds in house its own IT systems - all of which are replicated up and down the nation! Huge waste of money as many are loathed by officers that use them. Some forces have already started to work together providing out of office hours support for each other with functions which are not used hourly in a bid to save money and maybe now is the time to grasp the nettle properly and create the Police Force (not Service - it should be a force for good not a social service facility which it is regularly called on) of each nation.

  • Comment number 32.

    We need more officers on the ground and less cameras; crime prevention rather than crime solving being the mantra. Recruit more officers, and train them well. I'm not sure about the 'elected sheriff' idea. It sounds democratic, but in actual practice it may ultimately serve to politicize the police force, and we don't want that.

  • Comment number 33.

    panchopablo wote

    'How about removing the shackles of Political Correctness'.

    I rather like AA Gill's description of political correctness as simply good manners ie treating everyone equally and with respect.

    respect pancho

  • Comment number 34.

    What would you change in the police?

    For a start, the tick-box mentality that has pervaded their method of errrr crime "prevention".

    Seriously. we DO have a police force? I thought they were only allowed out of the station when government needs to prevent any dissent, or to protect a dictator.

    As a kid I was taught to respect the police - whilst there are without doubt a lot of damn good officers, the institution of "police" has been morphed into a tool of government to keep the peasantry under control - and mark this...it WILL get worse!

  • Comment number 35.

    We have been through this before but lets start by reducing the number of forces and chief constables, employing non police in their back offices and using everyday technology like laptops for statement.

    Yes we need a national police force for serious crime but scrapping SOCA seems a waste why not incorporate it into the national body?

    Get off the motorists back/get the police out of their cars and back on the beat, forget the emphasis on property related crime and focus on people crime.

    Improve the interface with the general public by pounding the beat and letting the public influence policing/local issues at neighbourhood meetings not liaising with other representatives/non elected bodies.

  • Comment number 36.

    The Police should serve the People. Not some abused biased framework of what is dictated as a good citizen.

    There are individuals who are criminal by nature and deep into the government. These individuals do not see their selves as a criminal. These individuals take measures outside the law and use the laws of a country to attack innocent truthful human beings. They threaten your life, kill your pets, commit perjury and convict you of crimes you never committed. All types of malicious vandalism occur. Ones tires and valve stems are cut and burst while under driving pressure. Homes are being set on fire while there occupants sleep.

    This in my town, next door to a enlarging military base. Violent individuals abuse any sane reasoning of hate. Out of malice to preserve ludicrous ideas and judgments the most heinous of crimes are being committed.

    This infectious psychosis makes it dangerous to report any crime affiliated within any empowered group. Cruel inhumane research is being conducted within bad named and demonized sections of my country. These crimes are hidden. These areas are not run or represented by their citizens but by criminals in government who exploit our lives.

    Great Britain has similar problems exasperated by criminal activities within their society's own caste system. These are crimes that must be addressed.

  • Comment number 37.

    Drop their pensions to that expected by the rest of us.

  • Comment number 38.

    I disagree with the calls for a national police force. Forces vary depending on the areas they police. Geographical, as well as population features need to be considered here. Furthermore, comparison with Spain and France is misleading. In both countries there are 3 national police forces, covering 3 different areas of policing. Personally, I don't care what uniforms the bobbies wear and how their areas of specialism vary when I dial 999!

  • Comment number 39.

    How about a change in the rules regarding Police officers to retire on a full pension and avoid disciplinary action the day before a hearing. How about the amount who get to retire on 'Stress' on a full pension but miraculously recover to take full time employment in the private sector.
    it is a national disgrace that the Police are allowed this dubious privilege. If we are serious about reform this is the biggest issue.

  • Comment number 40.

    "The police force should be payed extra by the people, who put on events that demand large number s' of the police force for crowd control , football matchs' rugby protest , pop concerts'and allmost every other type of event, this is a waste of police time, they should use private firms only. This would save the Council tax payer a great deal of money.

  • Comment number 41.

    Currently within the UK there are 52 separate Police Constabularies each with it's own Chief Constable and command structure, administrative support, IT support and vehicle and equipment procurement.

    My suggestion is to radically reduce the numbers of individual forces with consequential cost benefits. I am certain we could operate within the UK on the following lines:

    Northern Ireland, Scotland (North), Scotland (South), Wales (North), Wales (South), North West (England), Norrth East (England), West Midland (England), East Midlands (England), London, South East (England), South West (England).

    Even if my proposal needs increasing by 100%, due to over-enthusiasm, that would still see a reduction in 26 Constabularies. Naturally this will be difficult to push through but needs must etc. Front line services would not be affected as savings would come from back room and command areas. The benefits from procurement and a standardised approach to vehicle fleets would also I am sure reap dividends.

  • Comment number 42.

    33. At 06:32am on 26 Jul 2010, olderboy wrote:
    panchopablo wote

    'How about removing the shackles of Political Correctness'.

    "I rather like AA Gill's description of political correctness as simply good manners ie treating everyone equally and with respect.

    respect pancho"

    Equality?,give a job to a women or a ethnic minority over white male.........thats not equality.

    I believe many police forces dont accept white males,or white hetrosexual males to be honest.

    Respect?,none left in this country.
    Are capital on the verge of anarchy with gun warfare.

    Sadly the police of today have the hands tied behind there back by liberal politicians and liberal human rights groups who care more for criminals than victims.

    Lets hope we dont end with South African crime figures before liberals finally admit there reign over the last 13 years in the justice system was a complete failure.

    Oh and please dont quote crime statistics.

  • Comment number 43.

    Reducing the number of senior officers will do little for police retention. At the moment, 85-90% of officers are at constable rank. It's not about cash but as a uniformed service, everyone needs the motivation to become the commander of first a company, then a platoon and then a brigade. I like the model of the Hong Kong police, in which there's a two-tier entry system. Exceptional candidates, who pass the relevant tests, can start as probationary inspectors, rather than constables. In the UK, everyone regardless of age and level of education must do at least two years as a constable and can only gain promotion rank by rank.
    Everyone needs motivation and outstanding officers should be rewarded.

  • Comment number 44.

    police officer do a great job, but let us get them back on the beat out of the cars, able to give a on the spot fine without the masses of papaerwork, give them camera and allow them as evidence. it would enable a civillian to do the report and get him to read and sign to say its correct use of digital voice recording so it can be transcribed by a civilian, get them back out there doing the job they signed up for.. get rid of the buracracy created by the crown prosecution service, and reduce the ability to claim human rights over and over again on appeals crimminals should be made to work to support the community they have disrupted just like in america if they had to work 8 hours a day prison would not be appealing that is what hard labour was made for

  • Comment number 45.

    I think the people who are part of this discussion would be interested in a new service called MyPolice.

    Mypolice ( http://www.mypolice.org ) is an independent, online feedback tool that enables the public and the police to have a conversation. It's a bit like an online combination of an old fashioned neighbourhood watch, with something like the financial website Money Saving Expert.

    It acts to foster constructive communication between local citizens and the police forces that serve them.

    The site does three things:

    First, it is a neutral space where citizens can find out more about who their local police are, and what they do.

    Second, it allows citizens to send useful feedback about their experience back to the police.

    Finally, Mypolice build up this data of customer experience and feeds it back to the police, creating helpful diagnostic tools that in time will help police leaders do what they do, better.

    You can log onto the holding site just now to learn more and submit your own experience. You can follow Mypolice on twitter too @Mypolice

  • Comment number 46.

    Like every other public organisation, they have, over the last 10-15 years become top heavy with nonsense spouting, go in half way up graduates, become crippled by political correctness and been shackled by the human rights act.

    The first plan is to get round these problems, personally I don't want a yob being called mate by the rozzers, if the person in question is clearly being a nuisance, remove them from the scene with whatever force is deemed necessary, straight away, without standing to argue about it.

    the police need to smarten up a bit too, a bit more pride in appearance makes a huge difference to how the public percieve you, and to all the new recruits, girls and boys,, trust me you, like everyone else need experience and being a big head doesn't get it, please a little less arrogance would be nice. And finally lets have chiefs who look and act the part, I'm afraid the woman chief constable plonked at the news conferences for Mr Moat was quite frankly a disgrace, this does not bode well. While I have nothing against the woman, I can only conclude that the reason she has reached such heady heights would be to make sure the 'equality' lobby got some decent figures back. The dead wood needs to be removed as do some of the constraints, and then a proper rigorous selection process needs to be implemented, if the police force are being subject to cuts, like everyone else, then I think quality not quantity is the way forward.

  • Comment number 47.

    Having just spent 13 years in the US I am really concerned about the politicization of the police. Elected officials (and the use of public sector jobs as a springboard to political office) in the justice system leads to less justice, more grandstanding and less efficient use of resources. Much like their boards of education come out with nutty policies that everyone's kids have to learn, the justice system there gets sabotaged by people with narrow agendas that aren't based on evidence.

    The rest of the proposals could be good. Forces as they stand make little sense within the rest of the local government structure. The emergence of online crime and increase in organized crime require a different, less local focus. Also, the widening of our everyday lives means that the small, local differences that used to be reasonable now make for confusion and inefficiency. So there are very good reasons for a reorganization. I tend not to like the idea of dismantling an organization that's only just been set up (Soca) but in the context of a complete reorganization it could make a lot of sense.

  • Comment number 48.

    The problem is largely due to our laws being largely in favour of the defendant rather than the public. UK lawyers have lobbied for far too much procedure in the arresting and charging process to a point which has made the police bureaucratic. There are far too many rules which are totally unneccessary. Certainly our ethnic discrimination laws, health and safety regs and human rights legislation do nothing to improve the efficiency of our police force. The fact is in almost every respect we are far to regulated. This also applies to business. I propose that we scrap the race and religious laws, the anti discrimination laws and the human rights act just for starters.

  • Comment number 49.

    Too early to make a judgement on this really - it seems to work ok in America and I don't think they would come up with this just to annoy the socialists.

    Although, I suppose any chance to annoy socialists is worth it.

    Making Police accountable for the policing of your own neighbourhood makes a lot of sense. Taking away any councillor control of the policing requirements and putting it in the hands of the public makes sense as well.

    Time will tell.

  • Comment number 50.

    They already seem to be highly efficient at slipping out of any charges of injuring or killing those they are supposed to be protecting. An astonishing statistic from the last Question time: In the past 50 years a 1000 people have died whilst in police care but there has not been a single conviction.

  • Comment number 51.

    Certainly change the way that Police are recruited. I applied to join the Police on leaving the Army and found the system absolutely ridiculous. One could only apply to one area at a time, the process was long and filled with unnecessary paper work and then I was rejected because I had used abbreviations in a dictation test. Obviously a degree, and four years experience as an Army Officer wasn't good enough for them. Either that or was it that the two spaces that they had that month had been filled and they were just making flimsy excuses to get rid of people? Anyway I complete waste of a lot of very talented people’s time.

    Perhaps a centralised recruitment and selection process with candidates opting for a particular area of the country once they had passed the initial stages of Police training?

  • Comment number 52.

    We need to pay the police less. They should not be able to retire at 45 - that is obscene and an insult to the rest of the country. The police have done less and less throughout the years to address crime. They don't even take fingerprints anymore.

    It's time they earned their money. If we paid them salaries more in line with other countries then we could hire more of them. We need to reduce their salaries - until we do that then nothing will change and we will always be short of police.

  • Comment number 53.

    Maybe the police force could stop brutalising the innocent, stop murdering citizens and stop attempting to pervert the justice process in order to protect their own from prosecution! I expect that would save a fortune and provide a much more effective and efficient Police Service!!

  • Comment number 54.

    Conservatives are following the same route for Police as Labour did for NHS i.e. thrusting PCT's and Managers to oversee Doctors/GP's. Now the Goernment is trying to thrust elected Commissioners above trained Police specialists . chief constables. It will only result in a mess. Reduce beaurocracy but do not instil inefficientcy with so may top layers - politically guided.

  • Comment number 55.

    Elected Police Chiefs will be no more effective that those appointed. Perhaps less, another body on the gravy train conveyor. Its the system not the job title.
    What would make policing more efficient is a command structure which supervises & manages down to Constable level. These "beat managers" (ridiculous) appear to do as they please and implement their own policy ideas. Then rather than have half a Force doing Counciling, Traffic management, Victim support, Trauma advisers,Crime Prevention advisers, Satistical Advisers, Human Rights advisers & who knows what else anything but Police Officers, all drawn from serving officers on substantial salaries working 9 to 5 , 5 day weeks perhaps a little more actual Policing from Police Officers would be helpful.
    Finally a Judicial System which backed up Policing instead of leaving a Police Force feeling its wasting its time because punishment barely exists

  • Comment number 56.

    It has been said that it seems to work in the States. There is a basic difference which is being ignored there. In America politics is not so centralised, so you could have a locally elected Democratic Police Commissioner who had policies which were not in keeping with those of a Democrat President (could have said Republican!). In this country there would be much less flexibility and hence the local floavour of policing would be lost.

    Whilst political parties, trade unions and other organisations can obviously support any candidate they choose, the candidates themselves should be all independents.

    A lot of what the Tories are doing seem to me to run the risk of centalising, rather than devolving. Academies forming ever larger groups of schools. Police run form party central office. The ideas may have some milage, but I don't think the endgame has been worked out.

  • Comment number 57.

    OUR police should be where WE can see THEM.

    Accessible. No more locked stations. No more patrol cars. Friendly, first names perhaps, but always accessible.

    Low grade crime. Tackle what happens in OUR neighbourhoods, the patterns and the potential problem people i.e. those who may grow up to be big time crooks.

    Independently monitored. No more 'internal' investigation. Investigation by a body made up of former police people and members of the public.

    More money for those on the beat and less for those behind desks. The frontline should prevail over tactics.

    No more protection of 'sensitive' up market public or private figures. No more over control of public demonstrations. And a judicial system that backs the frontline up.

  • Comment number 58.

    They should stop concentrating on 'low level fruit'........people doing 32 mph, stupid parking offences, or someone thumping a burglar in their home etc and concentrate on major crime and focus on the THUGS AND CROOKS, that WE know abound in our society, but they seem not to.
    Drugs related activities lie at the centre of most of our criminal incidents.......that is why 'Drugs Intelligence' should be given TOP priority, indeed, even in this climate, expanded.......Crack drugs (excuse the pun) and life will be better for everyone.

  • Comment number 59.

    Another stupid idea from the ConDems - ranking alongside Graduate Taxes

    The solution to the cost and effectiveness (or lack of it) of UK policing is to create a National Police Force. We do not need 43 Chief Constables, 43 deputies, 43 police HR departments and so on and on and on

    We most certainly do not need to create 43 more quangos - sorry commissioners all of whom will require 43 armies of backroom staff. No doubt Lord Ashcroft will be funding the campaign costs of these proposed commissioners!

  • Comment number 60.

    The very first thing that would increase police effectiveness is to repeal all of the trivial laws that 'handcuff' an officers work. The laws that require him to fill out hours of paper work which keeps him at a desk instead of on his beat. A mixture of 'Dixon of Dock Green' and the present information age would be ideal. But lets cease ostracizing a copper because he delivers a clip round the ear to a deserving delinquent.

  • Comment number 61.

    You will never get an efficient and effective police force until you first of all tackle the most wasteful part of the legal hierarchy - the legal system itself. The growth in the legal system ( + lawyers) and accompanying administration, allowing criminals to escape justice on technicalities, terrorists to stay in the country at taxpayers expense, the HR bonanza for lawyers, the myriad petty laws and so on... has created a very difficult situation for the police and caused the public (once so willing to help) to hold them in contempt.
    Having dealt with the above then you can get the police to police and the administration to administer with some semblance of effectiveness. The last thing you need is to politicise the police more than they already are (remember some wacky chief constables?). It does not address the root of the problem.

  • Comment number 62.

    Efficiency is doing things right; effectiveness is doing the right things.

  • Comment number 63.

    Firstly I couldn't disagree more with TopolX. As a Neighbourhood Response officer I never want to carry a Firearm, ever! There are in reality very few Firearms incidents, if you have every single police officer armed in the UK, all this will achieve is to make minor offenders carry firearms in order to defend themselves. Before you know it the number of weapons being carried on the streets has doubled, and the number of incidents where we will be dealing with weapons will increase dramatically. You have more instances of MOPs being shot, increased demand on A&E services to deal with the incidents. Yes we are very well trained and know how to deal with volatile situations using communication and defensive tactics if necessary. This shows more skill than waving a firearm at someone.

    Secondly why are we going to waste money holding elections. Essentially members of Police Authorities are already elected as the majority of them are elected local councillors. So now we will be spending more money electing more officials. Could this money not be better spent in the Police budgets?

  • Comment number 64.

    Make them put down the doughnuts and get out on the streets for a change where i live we must have the worst police Force in the country, there is a skatebord park at lings field that Friday night becomes a haven for drunken teenagers who cause nothing but trouble and mess. There are bins to use yet the field around the park is strewn with broken bottles shopping trolleys and rubbish, they've even started to wreck the skateboard facility and burn out cars next to it, when the Police are called and they are EVERY FRIDAY they NEVER have anyone available to attend.
    If it was a motorist they'd be there if it was a medical cannabis user in a wheelchair they'd be there, if the Police Force isn't careful vigilantism will raise its ugly head.

  • Comment number 65.

    Get rid of all the non-ranks in the police for a start.

    Acting Assistant Deputy Chief Constable was one I spotted.

    Instead just have:

    Constable
    Sargent
    Inspector
    Superintendent
    Chief Constable

    The authority should come from the job they do, not from rank. At present you promote someone and if they are no good you cannot de-mote them. We end up with a lot of empty uniforms at the top, very inefficient and expensive.




  • Comment number 66.

    Whats most scary is the change in name for the police its no longer a service its now a FORCE thats being used to keep us the people in our place by successive governBENTS.

  • Comment number 67.

    53. At 07:47am on 26 Jul 2010, The Ghosts of John Galt wrote:

    Maybe the police force could stop brutalising the innocent, stop murdering citizens and stop attempting to pervert the justice process in order to protect their own from prosecution! I expect that would save a fortune and provide a much more effective and efficient Police Service!!


    Expecting the world to treat you fairly because you are a good person is a little like expecting a bull not to attack you because you are a vegetarian.

  • Comment number 68.

    To me, more efficient means less paperwork and more 'policing'. That does not mean jumping into a police vehicle and charging off to a reported crime, it means walking a beat, it means getting back in tune with the public, it means gathering local intelligence that can be useful in preventing crime rather than responding to crimes already committed. Put mobile 'portakabin' type communication units on our streets to focus on local issues as they do in many Asian countries thus reducing the dependence on vehicles and also providing the public with a local point of contact. It's the public that want better policing, it's the public that pay for their services, it's the public that are complaining about poor policing, for once listen to the public. Oh, and whilst that is being set-up, the Criminal Justice system needs a radical overhaul.

  • Comment number 69.

    Icebloo. Firstly when someone is taken into custody thier fingerprints are still always taken, well in most Forces. If this practice has been stopped this is probably down to an attempt to save money with ever tighter budgets.

    Seceondly, a PC will earn 19,000 to start. So what you propose is that we halve that to 8,000 in order to emply twice as many? Would you place yourself in dangerous situations daily for £8,000 a year?

  • Comment number 70.

    It's quite simple. The Police service should not become a 'Political Football'. The Service serves the Queen not a locally elected body who undoubtedly will have political leanings!

  • Comment number 71.

    Start punishing criminals - that way the won't reoffend.

  • Comment number 72.

    17. At 05:32am on 26 Jul 2010, Tez wrote:

    ////In my opinion:
    Labours 'Human-Rights' Act is the PRIME cause of the inefficiecy in Policing - 'tying their hands' with 'Politically-correct' handcuffs has massively cut Police effectiveness. This Government should SERIOUSLY consider hand-cuffing both the 'HR' Laws AND it's terrible 'PC' twin to a much more common-sense and realistic level of importance - especailly when it comes to crime.
    The vast majority of the Public want less of this dogmatic rubbish that causes hell in their lives and leaves them at risk - but thanks to the Media - and it's self-serving love of HR & PC - Politicians seem more reluctant to upset the Media rather than protect the Public.
    Let's have most of this nonsense 'trimmed' and allow our Police to act.
    It's our softened-up, EU creche-minded Laws that are causing the problem.////


    This is plainly total nonsense! The Human Rights Act is NOT Labours or the EU's; is NOT Political Correctness, or Leftie or some socialist conspiracy or an impediment to efficient policing!

    Will all you loony right-wing fundamentalists get this simple fact into your small minds...The Human Rights Act and the 'Laws' created to reflect this act - originate from the International Convention of Human Rights - enacted into international law after WW2 and championed by non other than Winston Churchill!

    If our Police Force CANNOT function efficiently or 'effectively' within the limits of a respect for individual Human Rights - then we should ALL be quite concerned about the nature of our Police Force! The very idea that somehow the policing of our nation would be improved by scrapping our Human Rights is quite barbaric, and a little deranged! Go and examine the Policing records of those Nations which ignore their citizens Human Rights and you will see examples of the consequences of such insanity - state sponsored genocide, hit squads, torture, brutality, state sanctioned criminality and all manner of evils inflicted on citizens by those charged with protecting the public! you folk are not all there - would you sanction such behaviour by our 'boys in blue' to clear the streets of crime? - Although it appears, these days our 'Boys in Blue' like wearing black and enjoy carrying nice automatic machine guns!!! Not Dixon really is it?


    Mmmm - I think you folk should have a complete re-think about your insane ideas!

  • Comment number 73.

    52. At 07:42am on 26 Jul 2010, Icebloo wrote:

    We need to pay the police less. They should not be able to retire at 45 - that is obscene and an insult to the rest of the country. The police have done less and less throughout the years to address crime. They don't even take fingerprints anymore.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    "Pension costs are a deep black hole in Labour's dire financial legacy,"
    (Lord Oakeshott, the Lib Dem Treasury spokesman in the Lords)

    In fairness to the police however I did look up your quoted figure of a retirement age of 45 and found that it is actually 55.

    Still good to know that you support taking a long hard look at public sector pensions and entitlements.

  • Comment number 74.

    Maybe the time is right to create a government department that deals with border crime, drugs importations, immigration, beer and alcohol fraud. We could call it HMC&E. Twice the seizures at half the cost.


  • Comment number 75.

    I joined the Police in 1978, then I spent about 7 1/2 hours of each shift out on the beat and that included doing all my paperwork, it sometimes was less if my day involved making an arrest but not much, the reason was in those days we had process books, you reported someone filled in the booklet on the street with offenders details a short summary of the offence and so on, when I walked back into the station i took all my process books out of my top pocket put them in the Sgts in tray and that was it, the process book was all that was needed even at court,THEN came computers and I spent 4 hours of each day doing paperwork.SO just bring back process books and we can double the Police on the streets overnight,how would that be for efficiency.

  • Comment number 76.

    Yes of course it can become more efficient. Like any public body, they have been subjected to years of Labours paperwork layer cake. Many layers can be stripped away if it means what coppers are left can concentrate on what theya re charged with - keeping our streets and lives safe.

    Labour, in order to redistribute public tax introduced many paperwork based jobs - many jobs that were probably not necessary for the smooth running of the services but were given enough importance based on gold plated interpretation of domestic and EU legislation.

    If you want to make efficiencies - remove these layers. It is then up to your own conscience to deal with the consequences of making people - and people you might know - redundant. It isn't their fault they landed a non-job - people need to work like everybody else.

  • Comment number 77.

    As it currently is, the Police Force are really only accountable to elected officials who decide their fate. whether that be appointing or dismissing. You could argue that in our 'democracy' they are acting on our behalf, but most people know better than that. Cronyism is rife and we need more control over the people who run our Police Force.

    By giving us complete control over the head of our local Police Force we they are directly accountable to us. It wont feel as though they are protecting the elite in society first and the citizens who pay their wages second.

    Why is it that if there is a bank robbery at night, it takes minutes for armed police to turn up, but if a rape or murder has been reported it can take hours? Priorities need to be into practice with a more people orientated policing that reflects the true nature of a good balanced society. People should always come first. And i believe that with direct accountablity to it's elecorate the police force can take steps to start to actually serve it's people.

    Whether this happens, is a different matter entirely.

    As for whether police should carry firearms. I don't think we should be comparing the UK to the US on this. Americans have a constitutional right to be able to own a gun. We don't. I think the 'right' is ridiculous and only creates a society of gun toting loonies, and if the police carried guns here it would create an even wider gap between police and citizen. We have special armed police units and they get called when needed. Guns normally make most situations worse, and i can't agree with anything that elevates a scenario negatively.

  • Comment number 78.

    Cosmo -why blame community support officers? They are hamstrung by other people's politics. Review their remit and use them more effectively. Many of them are more capable than some PCs but the Met won't acknowledge it. If you want efficiency look to best use of resources already trained and available and introduce a practical promotion scheme.

  • Comment number 79.

    Really dont like the idea of elected police commissioners. On what basis are people going to stand for the job? Knowledge? Political apparatchiks? On what basis are people going to vote? Knowledge? Political label? Can't see how this will create improvement but CAN see that this will become a political football - a rest home for second grade politicians in rock solid safe seats. The last thing we need.
    What I would change is the abuse of the early retirement scheme, where coppers retire at 50 on health grounds with a full pension with astonishing regularity. The taxpayer of course foots the bill.

  • Comment number 80.

    Me again, I understand the feeling about Police Officers work, but there is a lot the public never see during my service I dealt with over 25 messy suicides this involved carrying many body parts one time it involved carrying a head in the pitch black of night over half a mile back to the scene having to work with these poor peoples blood on my clothes then having to knock on the family door taking statement from mothers fathers brothers and sisters, there were many other things that are even worse that we had to do, so yes we make mistakes but some days after a 12hrs night shift I drove 30 miles home had 4 hrs sleep and had to go back for late shift, no wonder we made mistakes.

  • Comment number 81.

    Depends on what we want police to be efficient at;if it is crime fighting especially stranger violence, they would have to adopt aggressive tactics,ride roughshod over human rights, and be like American police,losing their British value of policing by consent.

  • Comment number 82.

    The Wire spent an entire season criticising what happens when you have police commissioners who were politicians. They showed how these politicians decided policing priorities and budgets based on political reasons (like getting elected) rather than on local need.

    And now this cretinous government want them here and 'affiliated' to political parties.

  • Comment number 83.

    It is minor traffic offences that create the most anger against the police.
    A new civilian body should deal with all minor motoring offences leaving the qualified police officers to deal with other crimes.
    The new body would deal with parking, speeding, tyres, exhausts,insurance, mot, over the limit on random tests and such offences. Driving without due care and attention and dangerous driving and incidents where a criminal trial is likely and authorisation for high speed chases would remain with police and CPS

  • Comment number 84.

    Replacing local Police Authorities with an elected Police Commissioner is another example of how our political classes always look to the US for their social model.
    Policing policy will become a political football with the candidates expousing populist solutions to crime issues in order to be elected.
    The realities of policing will ensure constant tension between the Chief Constable and the politician.
    An inevitable outcome of this policy will be to politicise the post of Chief Constable, even more than it is now.
    Like the Tories 'Free Schools' policy this will serve undermine local elected councils.

  • Comment number 85.

    Police commissioners already exist in the form of the elected Police Authority for each county or Metropolitan area. They control much of the budgetary decisions made by each force as well as the appointment of senior officers. Because the Authority is made up of a variety of people from all political persuasions it tends to be politically inert, leaving the overall policing strategy to the Chief Constable and his senior management team. Letting a politically biased commissioner with perhaps no policing experience interfere with local policing to satisfy their party-political aspirations sounds like a recipe for disaster. I have served almost 30yrs and will retire before Xmas this year at the age of 51. Yes I will get a very good pension but that is because the police pay higher contributions [£464 I contributed this month and £280 national insurance]. So all those people advocating that officers' pensions should be cut - fine - just take our contributions down to what the rest of the working population pays. Police pensions - look - at the end of the day it's about what we contract into when we take a job. I sacrificed my right to strike, my right to join a political party and my right to take any additional employment. I had to apply for permission to get married and until recently we had to apply for permission to move house. On top of this I am verbally and physically abused on a daily basis. Would I take a firearm on patrol - no - and nor would most other officers. We police by public consent.

  • Comment number 86.

    No to Commissioners setting their own budgets.............
    Less paperwork and setting of targets............
    More police on the beat...higher recruitment,instead of the proposed cuts..............if cuts HAVE to be made they should be at the top end.
    Make Chief Constables who may be ignoring the scrapping by Teresa May of the Confidence target and the policing pledge, which was supposed to be implemented with immediate effect,toe the line.
    The question of arming all police can only be answered by the men on the ground doing the job................
    Have a review of the Judiciary and sentencing, to many repeat offenders are getting away with lenient sentences time after time.
    Get rid of ridiculous ASBO'S.




  • Comment number 87.

    72. At 08:45am on 26 Jul 2010, The Ghosts of John Galt wrote:
    17. At 05:32am on 26 Jul 2010, Tez wrote:

    ////In my opinion:
    Labours 'Human-Rights' Act is the PRIME cause of the inefficiecy in Policing - 'tying their hands' with 'Politically-correct' handcuffs has massively cut Police effectiveness.
    ====================================================================
    This is plainly total nonsense! The Human Rights Act is NOT Labours or the EU's; is NOT Political Correctness, or Leftie or some socialist conspiracy or an impediment to efficient policing!

    Will all you loony right-wing fundamentalists get this simple fact into your small minds...The Human Rights Act and the 'Laws' created to reflect this act - originate from the International Convention of Human Rights - enacted into international law after WW2 and championed by non other than Winston Churchill!
    ========================================================================
    Well said!

    You get any thread on HYS re-law'n'order and you get the daily wail knee-jerk moan about the HR Act and 'PC'.

    Can anyone give me one, just one, example of 'PC gone mad' regarding the police.

    One that is true, so reprinting a lot of nonsense from the wail doesn't count.






  • Comment number 88.

    Why all the sneaky pops about police officers pensions?The reason police officers & prison officers get reasonable pensions is because they do a difficult and dangerous job that most people would be unable/unwilling to do,they are not allowed to go on strike and they endure years of below inflation rate payrises by whatever political party holds the budget strings!

  • Comment number 89.

    This is so simple and not about elected officials. The answer is:

    + Large regional forces modelled on Thames Valley
    + Unified systems and purchasing nationally
    + Allied to national police airservice
    + Within each police force have unified and consistent custody operations for all agencies such as Customs, they do not need separate cells or processing facilities from the police.
    + National Crime Agency and National Highway patrol service.

    This has the benefit of being able to sell the redundant police headquarters and sack the surplus senior offices who represent a cost not a benefit to the communities they serve.

    This idea of politicisation is wrong headed and wasteful. We do not need smaller police services but bigger ones with the full resources they need in a modern age. This if anything is the lerarnign of the recent Moat debacle.

  • Comment number 90.

    Police chiefs seem to spend half their time fretting over 'equality & diversity' issues, instead of just fighting crime. The paperwork and effort devoted to these issues is out of proportion to their importance - the really important things like harassment and criminal damage, threatening behaviour etc are dismissed as 'anti-social behaviour' and get only passing attention.

  • Comment number 91.

    Our Police Force IS a National Force, we are not the USA made up of many Nation States, the UK is one entity, we do not need another layer of law enforcement. The FBI in the US is the most corrupt agency in the world, we do not need a further "CEOP" here, CEOP a spy agency in the mold of the FBI and in my opinion just as corrupt, but then that just follows when it's head is the questionable Jim Gamble. We have the National Bureau Of Investigation it is called The Police Force. These sinister agencies are not the way to go, good old fashioned policing IS, with more beat coppers. The aforenmentioned CEOP is a case in point of how these type of agencies get things so wrong. A dedicated organisation to police the miniscule problem of paedophillia, it's CEO in another life wrongly accused hundreds of people of wrongdoing destroying their lives. A British "FBI" will do exactly the same acting on flimsy intelligence and causing misery to many people because of a knee-jerk proactive reaction. What happened to fairness and decency, this beautiful country of ours seems on the road to becoming a "Big Brother" State, the overwhelmingly majority of people are dedcent law abiding citizens, lose this by cynical interpretation that eveyone is a potential criminal or paedophile and trust goes out of the window, leading to a population in discontent.

  • Comment number 92.

    40. At 07:07am on 26 Jul 2010, Lewis Fitzroy wrote:
    "The police force should be payed extra by the people, who put on events that demand large number s' of the police force for crowd control , football matchs' rugby protest , pop concerts'and allmost every other type of event, this is a waste of police time, they should use private firms only. This would save the Council tax payer a great deal of money


    Agree 100%, these are planned events that make a huge sum of money, events should pay for the Police they use or as mentioned, use private security.

    These are events that can be planned, why have officers tied up?

    Makes no sense.

  • Comment number 93.

    The last thing we want is more red tape and overpaid pen pushers, we need "more feet on the street"! We can do this without spending a single penny, by deploying our army infantry to support british bobbies. Instead of deploying two police officers on every beat, deploy one police office accompanied by a soldier. We can double the police presence without increasing the budget. The army is doing this in Iraq ang Afghanistan so why not here in the UK. More feet on the street, it's catchy.

  • Comment number 94.

    72. At 08:45am on 26 Jul 2010, The Ghosts of John Galt wrote:

    17. At 05:32am on 26 Jul 2010, Tez wrote:

    ////In my opinion:
    Labours 'Human-Rights' Act is the PRIME cause of the inefficiecy in Policing - 'tying their hands' with 'Politically-correct' handcuffs has massively cut Police effectiveness. This Government should SERIOUSLY consider hand-cuffing both the 'HR' Laws AND it's terrible 'PC' twin to a much more common-sense and realistic level of importance - especailly when it comes to crime.
    The vast majority of the Public want less of this dogmatic rubbish that causes hell in their lives and leaves them at risk - but thanks to the Media - and it's self-serving love of HR & PC - Politicians seem more reluctant to upset the Media rather than protect the Public.
    Let's have most of this nonsense 'trimmed' and allow our Police to act.
    It's our softened-up, EU creche-minded Laws that are causing the problem.////


    This is plainly total nonsense! The Human Rights Act is NOT Labours or the EU's; is NOT Political Correctness, or Leftie or some socialist conspiracy or an impediment to efficient policing!

    Will all you loony right-wing fundamentalists get this simple fact into your small minds...The Human Rights Act and the 'Laws' created to reflect this act - originate from the International Convention of Human Rights - enacted into international law after WW2 and championed by non other than Winston Churchill!

    If our Police Force CANNOT function efficiently or 'effectively' within the limits of a respect for individual Human Rights - then we should ALL be quite concerned about the nature of our Police Force! The very idea that somehow the policing of our nation would be improved by scrapping our Human Rights is quite barbaric, and a little deranged! Go and examine the Policing records of those Nations which ignore their citizens Human Rights and you will see examples of the consequences of such insanity - state sponsored genocide, hit squads, torture, brutality, state sanctioned criminality and all manner of evils inflicted on citizens by those charged with protecting the public! you folk are not all there - would you sanction such behaviour by our 'boys in blue' to clear the streets of crime? - Although it appears, these days our 'Boys in Blue' like wearing black and enjoy carrying nice automatic machine guns!!! Not Dixon really is it?


    Mmmm - I think you folk should have a complete re-think about your insane ideas!


    The Human Rights Act does not present a threat to effective policing, but the myths which have grown up around its application by the courts do present a threat. The response of the police can be criticised as no more than a lack of training. But if it exists, the problem must be addressed.

  • Comment number 95.

    lets face the music and run has been the motto for generations.Changeing the face of an established order will not help one bit.The whole system of government practice will still boil over ,no matter what.The best part of the british police force has gone bye to be buried in the archives of the film industry.The blue lamp image and the bobby on the beat,were the best years of the british police force,unfortunately lost to the greed and destruction of drug takeing britain with no remedy,with no real concern for crime prevention from the top right down to the bottom of this little island's people.Britain has been swallowed up by the rest of Europe and the world without making it too obvious to those who are kneep deep in useless ideas on reform.
    New government,new symtoms,but the illness is still here. The damp is still ingrained in the walls of this so called big society.The individuals who control the input to the formation of a better future are the left overs from the little society that developed the ruinous state of life in britain today.

  • Comment number 96.

    This is yet another 'shake up' or more accurately political interference of a body which has all the skills and experience to carry out its duties efficiently. Any changes will not make them more effiecient...just cheaper to run. The big 'but' is that outcomes change. WE need law-breakers caught and dealt with. Mr. Cameron; if you need money go to the banks, get OUR money back PLUS interest.

  • Comment number 97.

    You can lay all the plans in the world. The analogy here can be made with the England football team. If the people involved have no passion, no commitment and are only interested in their next pay packet, then all the plans you care to come out with are doomed to failure.

    What is missing is British Public Life, across the board, is passion, commitment and a sense of duty. Put that back into the public psyche and we might get somewhere. The Police need reminding that there first duty is to the community they serve, until they accept and respond to that, then just forget all the high falutin plans

  • Comment number 98.

    More transparency would go along way after the disgrace of the guy assaulted(at the very least) by police at the G20 event. How can the police expect trust and respect from the public when travesties of justice like that are allowed to occur.

    Commissioners elected on party political lines - BAD IDEA - I don't even need to explain why!!!

    As for arming the police. Did anyone read the reports of the guy 'accidentally' shot by a taser. Do we really want to read about people being accidentally shot by a gun?

    We need a national police force with local representation, less paper work and targets, less harassment of motorists, fewer stupid laws, the war on drugs is lost and needs to be seriously looked at as it would save billions for proper policing.

  • Comment number 99.

    I recently saw a post on facebook from a serving police officer stating how he was able to claim 4 hours overtime (at above normal rate) even though he is on paternity leave. That might be a loophole to close for staters!! I wonder how much 'overtime' is paid to staff on sick, maternity etc which they don't actually work!

  • Comment number 100.

    What they need - like the NHS - is for the government numpty`s to leave them alone. If it`s not broke don`t fix it.

 

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