BBC BLOGS - Have Your Say
« Previous | Main | Next »

Has the meeting between UK and Pakistan leaders been worth it?

22:50 UK time, Saturday, 31 July 2010

David Cameron has hailed the "unbreakable" friendship between Britain and Pakistan after talks with President Asif Ali Zardari. Do you welcome the meeting?

Mr Cameron said they had discussed how to "deepen and enhance" their strategic partnership and he offered more help with Pakistan's "devastating" floods.

Mr Zardari said: "This is a friendship that will never break, no matter what happens." President Asif Ali Zardari had been criticised for making his UK trip while Pakistan is facing severe floods.

Should Mr Zardari's trip have been cancelled because of the floods in north-west Pakistan? Will the meeting improve Anglo-Pakistan relations?

Thank you for your comments. This debate is now closed.

Comments

Page 1 of 11

  • Comment number 1.

    No one else takes David Cameron seriously so I'm sure the Pakistan government doesn't either.

  • Comment number 2.

    IMHO i believe that we have absolutely nothing in common with Pakistan except for two facts.
    1) we share a common history where we once oppressed that geographical area via empire.
    2) Our own Masters-of-War like their security services and their Taliban as it keeps the money rolling in from the supposed "war on terror".
    3) Apart from these two obvious, and that is that there may be just one third more possible connecting fact ~ we both despise each others religious belief's, values and prophets.

    best to leave them well alone to sort out their own massive-internal problems !

  • Comment number 3.

    To say nothing, especially when speaking, is half the art of diplomacy.

  • Comment number 4.

    Cameron has only been in office a few months and already we have had mistake after mistake after mistake coming out of his mouth. Does this clown ever think before he speaks ? He is the epitome of superficiality. He has no substance, no decorum, no orginal thoughts and no original ideas.

    Congratulations UK voters - we now have our own George W Bush. I'm sure we will all soon be buying fridge magnets and birthday cards with all his mistakes and misquotes on them just like the Americans did with George W Bush.

    How the mighty have fallen......Cameron is an embarrassment to our nation.

  • Comment number 5.

    Let me think winters approaching my governbent blame me for the recession i'm dreading the next round of persecution so am i worried about what Pakistan thinks of the PM?
    I have my answer i debated it with myself in great detail and depth NOPE i don't give a monkeys.

  • Comment number 6.

    The truth often hurts when told however that does not make it any less true.

  • Comment number 7.

    Cameron's remarks were foolish in the extreme. A significant proportion of the Moslem population in this country is already alienated by our blundering intervention in Afghanistan. Our supply lines for this futile war run through Pakistan, and the Pakistani army is fighting Islamic militants in the tribal areas. Anyone with any sense knows that Afghanistan is not the real issue, which is just as well, as the war there was lost long ago. What is at stake is the radicalisation of a nuclear-armed Pakistan. Congratulations, Mr Cameron. Your posturing has brought this a step closer.

  • Comment number 8.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 9.

    Pakistan as well as many South Asian countries including Afghanistan, India and China are going through a process of democratic transition. The ISI has come in for much criticism from the mainly the anti PM Musharaff camp, but that voice still lingers. Not that long ago, the likes of Sir Kevin Tebbit, the former Permanent Secretary of the MoD were in deep talks with the Pakistani Government, the Americans were constantly throwing billions of US$ at them in the hope of countering terrorism. Unfortunately, when you play double, eventually you get caught but its Pakistan who has more to worry about than the British PM who has been bold.

  • Comment number 10.

    I don't care. Has anyone noticed that your comment can simply disappear? If the establishment doesn't like it, it just doesn't get past them. There's the mother of democracies for you!!

  • Comment number 11.

    Why is David Cameron being crucified for saying what he believes. Does the press/media just want to hear the rehearsed Cr*p that comes out from the Goofy Banana joker. Can anyone in their right mind see either of the 2 Milliband brovers being in charge of the UK. Doesn`t bear thinking about

  • Comment number 12.

    Some Western countries promote terror in the largest city of Pakistan for the last thirty years.The epicentre is a World famous city and the head of the terror organization not only live there but has been awarded nationality and abov all he has been given full military style protection.Now this is called a diplomatic language..........Who is he?

  • Comment number 13.

    Call me Dave's only real job was in PR for GMTV and it shows.
    The scary thing is this buffoon and his chums have set things so no matter what, they are in charge for the next five years.







  • Comment number 14.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 15.

    What if Pakistan said that England should do more about tackling it's homegrown terrorist issues?

    After all 7/7 was planned by British citizens as a direct response to British foreign policy in the middle east.

    We would be outraged if our whole country was tarnished by the actions of a few.

    Why is it any different for "lesser" nations?

  • Comment number 16.

    I love how Dave Miliband condemned Cameron for speaking the truth.

    Miliband,like all champagne socialist spin so much it makes you dizzy.

    Pakistan should be told,arrest the terrorist or get no aid.

  • Comment number 17.


    David Cameron is a new breed of modern politicians like Obama.

    His comments should be taken as a bold account of reality on the ground.

    It is an open secret that the Pakistani establishment uses terrorism as a state instrument to promote its interests.

  • Comment number 18.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 19.

    “How damaging were Mr Cameron's comments?”

    To our vital economic relations with the growing Indian markets, our future customers, the comments were not at all damaging but very positive.

    “Should he have been more diplomatic?”

    You mean follow a wishy washy legacy Blairite ‘non-judgemental’ line that says nothing of any substance? Of course not – Cameron is a Conservative not a socialist!

    “Are you in Pakistan?”

    No thanks.

    “What can be done to defuse the row?”

    Pakistan could stop assisting terrorists.

    As usual the media are focusing on the politics and missing the content which is that the Taliban et al are using Pakistan in the same way that the Vietcong used Cambodia and Laos.

  • Comment number 20.

    I hate to say it but David Cameron has impressed me - simply by speaking the truth. Forget the taliban, for the minute (lets just presume Pakistan is telling the truth and it does not support the taliban in any way). However:

    Pakistan has done virtually nothing about the anti-India terrorists operating on its soil - LeT, who committed the Mumbai attacks - are still very much openly active in Pakistan along with many other similar groups, who are planning ways of committing atrocities in India. The Pakistani state is often accused of directly helping them - this is strongly denied by them despite the evidence. However what cannot be denied is even if they are not directly helping them - they are turning a blind eye (just a few months ago - these terrorist groups (many banned by the UN) held a rally, and of course the Pakistani authorities did nothing. Turning a blind eye and letting these terrorists plan attacks is the same as giving them your blessing. Therefore Cameron is right - Pakistan is exporting terrorism.

  • Comment number 21.

    Political Correctness gone mad.

    Cameron makes a statement which is true and has been said many times by the American's -- what's the big deal?

    Why should you care whether Pakistan is offended by telling them they should not support terrorism? Seems to me it's you who should be offended when Pakistani support's terrorist who kill your troops.

    Your turning into a nation of wimps.

  • Comment number 22.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 23.

    What if people assumed America wasnt telling the truth?

    What if people questioned Americas and Englands undying support for the Israeli Government, which has personally carried out atrocities, instead of being alleged as third party involvement?

    What annoys most about these type of debates is that the majority of people can only see things from their own point of view and for whatever reason do not have the capability of placing themselves in someone elses viewpoint.

    Maybe that is the whole problem of the current world we live in.

    PS I think Cameron was politically naive here, although I am all for honest opinions but only if we can take it back from other leaders and not just cheer when ours is honest.

    And the comments by his spokeswoman since this proves that Cameron feels he may have been politically naive too.

  • Comment number 24.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 25.

    Trade does,nt grow by FLATTERING someone.we all know that thisn is a part of pre planned propaganda like the MI5 did before in 7/7 bombing to blame someoneelse. Mr cameron don,t know how India is exporting terrorist to other countries like PAKISTAN. That has been discoverd many times.

  • Comment number 26.

    Gaffe.... Will follow gaffe.... Will follow gaffe... Will follow gaffe... A mark of his 'tenure' will be a run of Bush faux pas. Say what you like about Brown, Thatcher or even Blair. They were intellectuals and worldly. Cameron is cosseted and simply not very bright. More often than not he speaks nonsense off script. Listen carefully. Don't be fooled by the suit, haircut, accent or endorsement of the Murdoch press. It's a return to rule by a well schooled, wealthy elite, whilst more intelligent, worldly and passionate folk sweat to get past all the glass ceilings.

    The issue in hand...? His comments were reckless and somewhat depressing, especially as he made them in India. Not only does Cameron show an ignorance of 1940s history, he seems to know little about the relationship between India and Pakistan.

  • Comment number 27.

    I think Pakistan has to admit that it does have a problem with terror groups in it's country but as long as it is trying it's best to resolve the problem no one can ask for more. We could provide assistance to them if they want it.

  • Comment number 28.

    There is only one way that i can think of of preventing the pakistani intelligence from tutoring the afghan taliban & it is the following but i am afraid it might appear unconnected at first sight: the pakistani supreme court should strike down the ussage of loudspeakers for both political (rallies) and religious purposes (in mosques, etc).

  • Comment number 29.

    Once again poodle Cameron is doing the dirty work of the Americans. He is the weakest leader we have ever had. No wonder most people voted against him ! New election please !

  • Comment number 30.

    UK PM David Cameron has hit the bull's eye in his remark about ISI connection with the insurgent groups. Pakistan is funding and fuelling rrorist groups and is rapidly turning into a rogue State. It is not able to stand the bitter truth about its dubious duplicity. Prez Zardari has amassed unaccounted wealth and has no qualification whatsoever to be Prez of the nation. Much of the aid funds doled out by the West are gulped by him and his likes. Pak is an expert in double-speak. It does not practise what it preaches. This is not going to serve the country in the long run as the West is increasingly able to understand its skullduggery.

  • Comment number 31.

    D. Cammeron is entirely in the right. If relations adjust somewhat that would be due to Pakistan's BEHAVIOR which was simply referred to, and which is supported by Evidence. The cat's out of the bag, big deal.
    Upright and honest behavior from the Pakistanis will heal the Row; If they're capable of it, Of course.

  • Comment number 32.

    What is becoming more clear is that the previous type of national identity of a country has been thawed as economic concern is more serious globally. USA, Britain, France and the like have understood their relations and ties better with each other. From this perspective they form an elite coalation and like to make policies acceptable to thier counterparts and in their interest and it is a good policy. On the other hand China, India and Pakistan can never think as a more or less a group to atleast work upon plan to eliminate what is more a threat like terrorism. It is highly urgent in the changed scenario that these countries ought to work togher and then they can make a difference.Not only Pakistan but others suffering from terrorism should realize that disturbance in one part affects the whole world. The evil should have been nipped into the bud. Thanks

  • Comment number 33.

    david cameron said the right thing. it is proved that there are still terror training camps runnin in pak occupied kasmir and other parts of pakistan.

  • Comment number 34.

    At last we have a PM who tells it like it is. FACT...Some of the Taliban live in Pakistan (where they won't get caught) and nip across the border to Afghan for a few days to plant IED's then scurry off. FACT..The Pakistanis do practically zip to combat terrorists living in their country. FACT...The Pakistanis moan about the US using drones to blow up terrorists living in their country. FACT...The terrorists who did the hotel job in India and killed loads and were.... unsurprisingly from Pakistan.

    Now being realistic how many terrorists have the Pakistanis presented to MI6 or the CIA who are of any intelligence value? Very few I would imagine as the Pakistani Intelligence Community makes a hair grip look straight. How many terrorists have the Pakistani army actually killed? (From a BBC news report I know a bear ate two. Good result. Anti Tali bear. Pot of honey for the furry bloke)How many areas have they cleared of terrorists? Err..probably none. They need more bears...

    Without wanting to sound cynical their nuclear weapons, space programme must cost a lot of money so it's a lot better for them to say "oh we are trying but we need a few more billion. Oh did I mention I need a new bathroom as I don't like the tiles in my current one and the showers not that powerful". Cameron hit the nail on the head. Until these people actually start taking this situation seriously how can we take them seriously? Cut off all financial aid, force the taliban into pakistan and let them suffer the consequences! He was a lot more diplomatic than I'd have been, alas I can't put what I'd have said otherwise it would be a banned comment

  • Comment number 35.

    The British premier does seem to appear to be lack of diplomatic delicacy, but he speaks his mind, albeit talking a bit too much.

    In the international political arena, he is still green, lots to catch up.
    (btt1943)

  • Comment number 36.

    Cameron has been forthright and this is what we need today to combat terrorism. The world once united to throw out apartheid in South Africa. This is a worse scourge because not only does it harm Pakistan but spreads all over the world. Pakistan's regime needs to get a clear message to end terrorism and I congratulate the young PM of UK for his bold statement.

  • Comment number 37.

    Well to be honest and straight forward, never hurts in the long run. Truth has to be told and not like Mr. Milbrand to say what people want to hear. I think it refreshing to see some one stand up for their beliefs and common good and that's what all the people of the world want. To be fair and just and let every body live in peace, thanks.

  • Comment number 38.

    15. At 01:21am on 01 Aug 2010, JobyJak wrote:
    "What if Pakistan said that England should do more about tackling it's homegrown terrorist issues?"

    I totally agree,this country has blamed everybody from Pakistan to Israel for the threat of homegrown terrorists.

    The appeasement policy is not working.

    "After all 7/7 was planned by British citizens as a direct response to British foreign policy in the middle east."

    There is ways to voice your anger at the foreign policy but taking arm against your country is nothing more than treason.

    Any citizen of this country who conspires to attack this country should have there citizenship revoked and sentence to life means life imprisonment.

    "We would be outraged if our whole country was tarnished by the actions of a few."

    Well,are allies call are capital Londonistan and enemies call it sanctuary.

    "Why is it any different for "lesser" nations?"

    Pakistan has created the Taliban and the Kashmiri terrorists groups for it own means.
    These groups have now turned on Pakistan and are killing civilians it seems on a weekly bases.
    Given the fact that AQ seems to act without fear of arrest in Pakistan one has to question the reliability of the Pakistanis as allies.

    Pakistan seems to be using us for aid and protection from Indian retaliation but is unwilling to deal with the monsters they created.

  • Comment number 39.

    british pm told a golden truth. pakistan can not deny that.they should act according to international demand.its for the sake of regional as well as global interest.

  • Comment number 40.

    David is right, its about time politician are frank and clear albeit he needs to be bit more measured. It is true that majority of terrorists have found safe heavens in Pakistan and Afganistan and not much progress has been seen on the ground.

  • Comment number 41.

    Does it matter if they are? I don't think so.

  • Comment number 42.

    After 13 years, we now have an honest Prime Minister.

  • Comment number 43.

    Let's hope that David Cameron's remarks have affected relations between the two countries, because it's about time somebody talk the Pakistani's their fortune!

    It is clear, and has been for quite some time, that they not only actively encourage the terrorists based on their borders but also finance their operations; so, if they want to consort with terrorists, they should told that they are not fooling anybody with their denials and be treated in the same way as those they sponsor.

  • Comment number 44.

    how can pakistan fall out with the uk HOW MUCH FOREIGN AID DO THAY GET OFF US dont be silly bbc and tell people the truth for once

  • Comment number 45.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 46.

    I am glad Mr.Cameron did say something that is very true. There is no need for diplomacy and friendliness, when I am hurting because my tax money is being wasted in an needless war and continues to be wasted because of the ineptitude of the pakistani government. Everybody everywhere knows that the pakistani intelligence backs terrorism, I say cut the aid to pakistan, deploy trade embargo and toughen sanctions against them, otherwise this is a war we will lose.

  • Comment number 47.

    One massive advantage to this situation is that as the Pakistani "Intelligence" Community (or should that read Taliban Information Sevice..."Err Mustapha don't sleep in that house tonight. A drones going to blow it up in 2 hrs") will not be attending the upcoming Intel conference they'll actually have a lot less to tell the Taliban about what MI6 and the CIA are up to. Well done Mr Cameron for keeping them away. Cut their nose off to spite their face here methinks...hehehe

  • Comment number 48.

    As none of the main parties are serious about addressing any of the issues that we the UK citizens find inportant, why should it surprise us that the leaders make major gaffs when in other countries.

    So far he has given the Americans credit for the whole of WW2 when like WW1 they did not enter the war until it had been going for years. He continues to suck up to the EU rather than tell tham what the Britiah people wish he would, we are leaving. So his annoying Pakistan is not a surprise.

    The boy needs to go back to school and learn some British history before making comments and research the other countries before commenting on them.

    It is a shame that UKIP did not make more inroads into the main parties at the last General Election then maybe we would have a less grovelling government as far as the EU and USA are concerned.

  • Comment number 49.

    British Prime Minister David Cameron's comment that Pakistan should avoid links with groups that "promote the export of terror" is an accusation pure and simple.It means that he is boiling with anger against Pakistan for Pakistan's alleged link with Al-Qaeda. It is very widely rumoured that Pakistan's Inter Service Intelligence has links with Al-Qaeda.But no country has sifted the grain from the chaff as yet. Unless Pakistan's link with the terrorists is established without reasonable doubts, Pakistan should be given at least the benefit of doubt. But Prime Minister Cameron's abrupt comments as aforesaid give the impression that he is not prepaerd to concede even that to Pakistan.His comment coming as it does before the Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari's imminent visit to the United Kingdom,has made the outcome of the talks between the two leadres quite uncertain. It is doubtful whether the talks can be held in a free, frank and friendly atmosphere.

    Never in the history of British dilomacy has a Prime Minister has made such an unguarded criticism of a sovereign state.The British Prime Minister's comment has already damaged the bilateral relations between the two countries. Only time can tell when the the UK-Pakistan relations will be normal again.In fairness to President Zardari, it is to be said that he has the best of intentions to repair the damaged relation. His plan to visit the United Kingdom despite Mr. Cameron's damaging comment is testimony enough of his spirit of accommodation and adjustment.Would the British Prime Minister reciprocate?

    It is true that the tribal areas of Pakistan are a haven for Al-Qaeda.But whether Pakistan has any complicity in this regard could not be found out yet.In fact it is easy to blame any Muslim country for harbouring Al-Qaeda. It is reported that recently Al-Qaeda has made a headway in Sahel too.The proximity of Pakistan to Afghanistan has made it extremely difficult for Pakistan to prevent the intrusion of Al-Qaeda terrorists through the porous borders. The central government has only a loose control over the tribal administration.It is historical. But even then the Pakistan Government has taken drastic action against the terorists.Paistan's efforts to haul up the terrorists continues.Instead of making cut-throat criticism, the British Prime Minister should help Pakistan in eliminating terror network therefrom.

  • Comment number 50.

    One could say that the UK never really brought to task Ireland OR USA over their communities support and fund raising for the IRA !!

    The IRA terrorism was on mainland Britain Yet no British action was taken against IRA bases in Ireland.

    So what is so different about Pakistan ? Apart from the distance from the UK , and that ,Pakistan plays cricket better that Ireland or USA.

    It is not just David Cameron that Believes that Pakistan communities support the Taliban but the vast majority of western countries .

    So What ! Would it by of great important if British troops weren't fight the Taliban ?
    Was the UK and USA bothered when Russian troops were being killed by the Taliban
    How much support in both cash and arms were given to the Taliban by the USA and UK to fight the Russians ,
    LAST question VIA which country dis the ARMS reach the TALIBAN ? --PAKISTAN ---- AND... not only with the blessing of the USA and the UK but also being supplied by.

    Regarding Milliband ,he should just SHUT UP . It was his Labour party that has gotten British troops in harms way fighting the Taliban .Leaving a God Almighty mess for others to clear up .


  • Comment number 51.

    We always blame politicians for being devious...for saying one thing while meaning something else.

    Here is one politician who has spoken his mind. So...why don't we just appreciate him for it?!

    Countries like individuals should....at least sometimes...take clear sides based on serious issues. Otherwise we risk becoming unethical.

    Cheers.

    Sriram

  • Comment number 52.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 53.

    Looks like that new thank less , inept and naive British PM is giving a policy statement from Indian soil which is allegdly responsible for Pakistan's internal security issues particularly w.r.t. Balochistan province. After the GFC, it is pretty obvious that Britain's interest is more in the business opportunities in Indian market (both military and otherwise) and Britain & US are ready to make Pakistan scape goat for their failure/ defeat in the region particularly Afghanistan's defeat where their forces are literally restricted to high security camps. When ever they step on the ground, a bullet welcomes the allied forces soldiers. Apparently, British people will not miss macho George W. Bush. As for the Pakistan's president, he SHALL put his personal interests aside and call off his UK visit. We are the worst affected people due to the misadventure of US/ Britian in Afghanistan which is not recognised by them. Enough is enough.

  • Comment number 54.

    Hi Mark....Ref Msg 22,

    Wow! Excellent post from you, Mark. Very astute and yet very balanced. You should be writing for the BBC...IMO.

    Cheers.

    Sriram

  • Comment number 55.

    Good for Britain....don't know why such uproar over established facts....exporting terror has been pakistan's legacy....dont remember the ethnic cleansing of hindus in kashmir valley....

  • Comment number 56.

    It seems to me the only reason Mr Cameron open his mouth is to put his other foot in it. World statesman he ain't...............

  • Comment number 57.

    About 9500 UK troops in Helmand, Would always pass the information to the UK sercret services and ministry of defence of what is happening.
    This can be discussed many times with Mr Cameron too.
    What he pointed out is a word of a basic soldier.
    And a soldier knew where terror comes from.
    Mr Cameron has told the truth , and truth always hurts particularly in our part of world.

  • Comment number 58.

    Well done Cameron. Finally someone in authority has stood up and told some truths about Pakistan.

    May be the BBC will now allow the public to express their own views about Pakistan on HYS in the same way that Cameron did. I am amazed the left-wing controlled BBC didn't send an e-mail to Cameron saying that his comments were offensive.

    I won't write any more, as the BBC would then delete this message for being offensive to Pakistanis too.

  • Comment number 59.

    Mr PM doesn't deserve serious attention going by his immature comments lately.He has enough in his plate already,total focus on britain will do britain good. Your country is fast loosing her significance in the world arena- courtesy of past unholy and unfocused government

  • Comment number 60.

    It's a known fact that it's to the interest of Pakistan military and ISI that the war against terror to go on. It's a nexus of various things: arms procurement in the name of fighting against terror and the money involved in it, drug trafficking, power, authority and influence. Most of the financial activities in Pakistan are in fact controlled by military and ISI in disguise. Almost all the intelligence agencies are aware of that as came with the disclosure of doucments in wikileaks and as PM of GB, who has for sure access to classified information, David Cameroon is aware of that. Pakistan is playing a dirty double game since long.

  • Comment number 61.

    When Pakistan has training camps, leading to terrorist activity in the UK, the Prime Minister has a duty to inform Pakistan...if he did not, he would be failing in his duty as Prime Minister.

  • Comment number 62.

    Well someone had to say something, even an idiot could see Pakistan aren't being entirely straight with those trying to help, so to back up his speach we ought to start withdrawing aid, what is it 187 million a year or something around that and this apparently is due to rise by 40%.

    At a time when we are facing a recession that is going to get worse before it gets better, we're sending hundreds of millions to a country that trains people to kill our troops and our civilians. I don't really care how many muslims object to Camerons comments, if you're that upset go back to Pakistan and put your money where your mouth is.


    In this modern world where lying and cheating are perfectly reasonable tools to use on a daily basis to tread all of everyone else, it comes as somewhat refreshing that a world leader is prepared to stand up and tell these money grabbing third world countries what they should have heard years ago, I think 187 million gives him the right!

    As for Miliband well he just stands there like a badly put together childs toy with the squeaker in the wrong way round who in their right mind would listen to a man who hasn't the backbone to stand up to anyone in his entire political life.

    Well done Cameron, and if the Pakistan security forces wish to sulk then let them. Pakistan need the west a whole lot more than the west need Pakistan

  • Comment number 63.

    Diplomacy is not a one man's show. I am sure the Government of Her Majesty is more conservative and needs time to mend styles of diplomacy. The BBC shouldn't be highlighting such slips of tongue; otherwise, every time tested institution of democracy, including diplomacy, would be percieved as something worth a stunt. No matter how calculated, a stunt can go wrong.

  • Comment number 64.

    some people are praising Mr Cameron for being open.First of all I can understand why people in Pakistan are angry simple because of comments were made in India..Bitter rival of Pakistan..Ok lets be open for a moment,who created this mess in first place..It was America n briton who created Taliban,various training school in pakistan to trained them in order to defeat Russia..Now they are called terrorists?????I truly believe that this problem can be resolved with dialogues and not with war...Before 9/11 there were no no terrorists attack in Pakistan..Its Pakistan who suffering every day and lost of thousand of lives already..Who gonna pay for that???Do people care??Dont think so..Aid cant compensate human lives.

  • Comment number 65.

    Whatever Pakistan may or may not be guilty of, how does Obama's English mouthpiece, Cameron (he even sounds like him since returning from his petite têtê-á-têtê in the Oval office), get away with having 'promoted the export of terror' by US-instigated, unfounded, deathly 9-years, and counting, invasion of Afghanistan? Is that not terrorism? It'll be interesting to see how many coalition countries follow quickly on the heels of The Netherlands' imminent withdrawal sooner than liked by the United States of Atrocities. Who wants to be tainted by their aggressive paintbrush? Pakistani reaction in burning Cameron effigies should be taken as a loud declaration of great offence taken at the remarks and possible damage needlessly spawned. Take note Obama - stop spreading war like jam over your latest gadget - Planet Earth! It's not a toy with which to play, neither are its inhabitants.

  • Comment number 66.

    I think his remarks either showed his inexperience and/or arrogance. Both of which do us no favours on the World Stage. He would do well in future to heed the words of a much more respected politician, Abe Lincoln:" better to say nothing and be thought of as a fool, than to open your mouth and dispel any doubts"

    The fact that he made the comments while in India, Pakistan's closest enemy, shows how cynical the man is. His arrogance is in thinking that everyone would be too stupid to see what he was doing.

  • Comment number 67.

    I cant say that im a Cameron fan but his stance in calling a spade a spade so to speak is correct. For far to long we have tried to appease these smaller nations and its been like walking on eggs trying to stay on their better side, bur if a country wants to go down the route of being ambiguous with its intentions then bring it out in the open and damn the consequrnces. How can you fight an enemy that has an out stretched open palm with the other clutching a hidden dagger an enemy that hides amongst women and children and covers their whole body in fabric so you cannot tell male from female.
    Remember how Chamberlain tried to appease the Hitler war machine. If you feel there is no equal trust dipomacy will never work.

  • Comment number 68.

    The time for straight talking from Cameron was when he was in Washington - he chose instead to denigrate Britain's role in the war and shied away from tackling the BP witch hunt.

    All of a sudden he's decided to develop a backbone - suspect the US told him what to do - a real yankee doodle poodle!

  • Comment number 69.

    Not a Tory but it's about time we had a prime minister who talks sense and is not scared to speak his mind. I find his comments about Pakistans links to terror and his summary of Raoul Moat to be brilliant and fully honest and its not often i think a politician is being honest. Miliband would also be better staying quiet as he has absolutely nothing useful to say. In terms of the relationship with Pakistan, why would Britain want to have a good relationship with a country which hates it? if there is any doubt that Pakistan is funding terrorism than i can't see how giving their goverment aid can be in any way justified.

  • Comment number 70.

    Cameron was absolutely right.Pakistan should stop playing double and keep focusing on staunch support of Taliban Mujahideen to drive the real oppressive, terrorists (US and NATO) forces out of Afghanistan.Otherwise this genocide of Anglo-Euro collision will destroy the whole Muslim Nation and the name of Islam from the face of Earth.I am sure my words will not make up to the forum because "Freedom of Expression" applies only to Anglo-European alliance and not to any other who opposes it.

  • Comment number 71.

    For once a UK prime minister tells the truth about a country and see what happens? It is quite ridiculous that the UK should be allies with Pakistan so I sincerely hope relations have been damaged. There is clear evidence that Pakistan's ISI funded the 9/11 bombers, to which the US and UK turned a blind eye (as indeed they did to Saudi Arabia's involvement). And of course Pakistan supports the Taliban. The UK has stayed allies with Pakistan hoping it will help in Afghanistan, despite all logic and common sense leading any sane person to the opposite conclusion.

  • Comment number 72.

    Relations between Pakistan and the UK?

    That would be the relations where they export terrorism and radicalise our youth, trying to undermine our society, and we for some bizarre reason keep on treating them like a proper nation?

    India is our natural ally, and we should support them fully in their struggles against Pakistan. Has Pakistan ever given the world a single thing of value?

  • Comment number 73.

    The situation is not so black and white as it might seem to everyone sitting in the west.
    FACTS:
    - Yes, the war on terror lacks strategic focus and is a lost cause, its only damage control from here on and wester governments are now talking about exit strategies along with the US
    - Yes, the Karzai government is full of corrupt officials, one of they key factors why taliban are gaining popularity.
    -Yes, the indians are also playing a dirty game inside Afghanistan, only to damage Pakistan internally and externally.
    -Yes, the Taliban have immense funds to run this war for another 20 years.
    and lastly, Yes Pakistan plays the double role - why you ask?, well it seems to me as not so much about ''exporting terror'' rather taking into account its long-term strategic interest. If the west was so eager to end terrorism , they'd first take out the financiers that provide the taliban the funds necessary for them to operate (opium, rich people in the middle east etc). Having enough troops on the ground is not the key to win this war, this war will still be there long after Obama and Cameron - Pakistan and Afghanistan are in it for the long-run with India and Iran playing its part for its own strategic interest.
    Lets assume for a moment that all is done according to what the West wants, Pakistan provides its full support, cuts all ties with the Taliban - a heavily northern, anti-pakistan government gets installed in Kabul that is tough on extremism (only by using their mouth). The west pulls out, thinking they've achieved their goals. The taliban with their immense funds get ready for another civil war, and so another war ensues, the taliban are back at the helm of affairs - at this point the West might not want to get back into it and blames Pakistan and Afghanistan for all the troubles.
    As for Cameron’s statements in India – I’d say its totally fair, he’s looking out for his Country’s interests (pulling in investment) just as Pakistan is looking out for its own long-term interests when the West pulls out.
    Being a layman and not knowing what the world of intelligence and political/strategic interests are all about, all i can say is that everyone is looking out for their own interest, be it the indians, the pakistani's, the U.S or the Brits - the Afghan Govt however is not a true representative of its own people and the few individuals at the helm are only in it for personal wealth.

    All is fair! Everyone is playing everyone i say! –it’s however sad to think that innocent lives are lost in the process!

  • Comment number 74.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 75.

    Is there an easier book for Cameron because 'Diplomacy for Dummies' didn't do the trick?

  • Comment number 76.

    Who cares? If the PM's quote is correct (have all the other posters actually seen the the intelligence reports!)what's all the fuss about?

  • Comment number 77.

    It is time we stop trying to appease countries that have different values and beliefs. We should reserve the right to say it as we see it and let others make allowances for us.

  • Comment number 78.

    Most people don’t even understand the recent history of Afghanistan/ Pakistan and the Taliban,

    During the cold war with nato and the USSR, The afghan’s asked the US to supply weapons to fight the Soviet Union and was more than happy to do so, including supplying stinger missiles, but as Pakistan would allow the American to control the flow of arms and who it went to.

    As there was no way for the American’s to supply the groups directly they had to go through Pakistan, there were a few different groups at that time, the Taliban and In the mid-1980s, the Afghan resistance movement, assisted by the United States, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, the United Kingdom, the People's Republic of China and others, contributed to Moscow's high military costs and strained international relations.

    The US viewed the conflict in Afghanistan as an integral Cold War struggle, and the CIA provided assistance to anti-Soviet forces through the Pakistani intelligence services, in a program called Operation Cyclone.

    A similar movement occurred in other Muslim countries, bringing contingents of so-called Afghan Arabs, foreign fighters who wished to wage jihad against the atheist communists. Notable among them was a young Saudi named Osama bin Laden, whose Arab group eventually evolved into al-Qaeda
    David camerons comments are correct because Pakistan has been directly involved with getting the taliban to power, they even made a film about it, it’s called Rambo 3

  • Comment number 79.

    It is kind of rich to point to 'Wikileaks' for evidence of duplicity.

    Didn't a US President justify not 'attacking' Pakistan after 911 by claiming they were a 'solid and staunch ally'? Of course the real justification was to go after Afghanistan a much sought after target. And as for 'insurgency' tactics I wonder who taught Pakistan that one?

    Name a country who isn't supping with the devil. Diplomacy? The art of making hollow noises in an echoing cavern.

  • Comment number 80.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 81.

    Are relations damaged? Who cares? If there were more plain speaking, instead of so-called diplomacy, perhaps the world wouldn't be in the mess that it's in. The acid test is, is it true? It appears that it is, so good for you David. As for fearing the reaction of the muslim population in Britain, words fail me. If politicians had recognised Hitler's true character, and had the courage to say so, the second world war would have been averted.

  • Comment number 82.

    There ought to be no misunderstanding David Cameron expressed his honest concern at the inability of the Pakistan Govt to control ISI of that country who for all intents and purposes are a parallel 'Government' and some elements of the government are complicit.

    Any more aid to Pakistan will go straight to ISI and that would only weaken the legitimate Govt. Any more aid will have to be strictly supervised.

  • Comment number 83.

    The truth is always bitter. Pakistan should stop promoting the export of terror. UK money is sent to this country to fight the war on terror. If the war stop, there will be no more money... so what do you think?

    It is a glaring truth. I get into trouble at work here in the UK for saying the truth. Now there is no need speaking if one can't be real. diplomacy or no diplomacy. Diplomacy is the reason why this terror war is prolonging, why Aghganistan war will not end. If Pakistan don't want to be accused, they should fight the terrorists littered all over their country and stop exporting terror.

    My advice to UK etc is to leave these intolerant aggressors alone and protect our own country. Read the riot act to their sympathisers here... if you support terror you don't belong here.

    I am not a fan of Cameron. But I support his speech. We cn't keep mom so Pakistan won't burn us at effigy.

    Now did this make it past PC?

  • Comment number 84.

    If I were the prime minister of a country seen as an ally of GB I would be rather miffed.Good old Camgaffe keeps on coming out with the remarks without any thought whatsoever,which really says everything about his government and how they approach policy and problems in general. They had years to come up with a polished public front but instead its a ragbag of policies and second class ministers who dream up silly ideas in brainstorming weekends in posh hotels. Camgaffe will soon go down in history as the leader who talks the talk until he makes a gaffe-which is whenever he opens his mouth.Pretty soon his own party will not want him to say anything lest he upsets someone,especially foreign prime ministers!!!! Camgaffes next speech should be "is this a dagger I see before me"????

  • Comment number 85.

    Why all this commotion after David Cameron having the guts to say what really exists - how does truth effect reality and relations - or do we just go supporting the USA with blindly telling lies and lining the pockets of the poloiticians and taleban with Amercian cash!!!!!!

  • Comment number 86.

    "theoldmoaner" at Post 81 is right. It is refreshing to hear a politician speak his mind rather than in platitudes. The pictures today of protesters in Pakistan were just laughable. They are not living in the real world.

  • Comment number 87.

    Its a shame the Cameron has decided to ignore the huge human, financial and political cost borne by Pakistan when fighting terrorism for the UK and the US.

    All this only to appease India, to sign a few more business deals, to sell half a dozen more Hawks (which would be used for peaceful missions only, of course!)

    If the PM was on a mission to be bold, clearly he could have also spoken of the human rights abuses in Kashmir and Assam. Perhaps point out what India is exporting into Baluchistan and the KP province through its numerous 'diplomatic missions' all along the Eastern border of Afghanistan.

    But hey, that wouldn't sell any jets, would it?

  • Comment number 88.

    This is an absolute No. The Most Honorable Prime Minister of UK Mr. David Cameron spoke the exact. He merely pointed out or referring to or giving a reaction to against what is already a Public property due to the recent leak of the classified Document to us. If these are facts as claimed by the leak, the concern party needs to react in this way only as it is doing now than acting otherwise while showing of one’s protest towards the other and hence it is proved beyond doubt that Pakistan has admitted the fact.

    Under the circumstances, Pakistan lost all its credibility to learn the art of security from UK in dealing with the Taliban with earnest and sincerity absent but in contrast it shall do more harm to us through passing of such knowledge acquired on the Subject into Taliban's hands only to enable Taliban to make its planning more foolproof and secure in attacking the Globe. In order to impart such training to such parties, one must be absolutely sure of the absolute integrity of the Party to whom one intends to impart such art of dealing with evil elements without harming ourselves only as we noticed in the case of 9/11.

    On expressing the opinion by pointing out what is already a free Public knowledge; the PM of UK done the utmost good to us to make sure to a reasonable extent that such information of knowledge as pass on to a rightful party is put to good to the Country alone to whom it is given and not use to benefit a third party of which it is very much a part and hence it is intensely desired that we keep such interested Powers from the Battle field of Afghanistan.

    As and when we able to do so, we might possibly consider wining in our efforts in controlling the situation in Afghanistan to a large extent. This is what is exactly achieved by the Statement made by the Most Honorable PM of UK. Further, these elements being blood thirsty and cannot live without seeing others suffer, any arrest of it from anywhere shall cause such elements to engage in infighting to die a common death of itself; mostly on its own weight for doing such heinous crime against humanity.

    This is therefore a sure sign of 1st wining of our efforts in Afghanistan which was otherwise considered lost. Also, Pakistan must understand that it is a part of the entire of us with respect behold and cannot live in isolation carrying of a view which is impossible to achieve unless world faces a premature death. We accordingly hope that circumstances are contributing enough to us to see something good coming.


    (Dr.M.M.HAZARIKA, PhD)


  • Comment number 89.

    How long until there are people burning effigies of David Cameron on the streets of Britain?

  • Comment number 90.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 91.

    Here we go 2003 and WMD intelligence all over again!

    As John Prescott said yesterday, "When I kept reading them, I kept thinking to myself: 'Is this intelligence?' It's basically what you have heard somewhere and what somebody else has told somebody. Presumably that's how intelligence is brought about.
    So I got the feeling it wasn't very substantial, but it clearly was robust."

    All this hype because wikiLeaks says so! Forget the fact that those 92000 documents are not compiled and assessed INTELLIGENCE reports. They are mere primary FIELD REPORTS ---- REPEAT PRIMARY FIELD REPORTS, filled by SOLDIERS, NOT BY TRAINED intelligence Officers.


    I read quite few of them, including the 300 selected carefully by the guardian. One report even says Hamid Gul, ex-ISI chief MET with this three would-be suicide bombers. hmmmmm
    So the guy has part of Berlin wall on his desk with note from German Intelligence Chief, thanking him for delivering the "first blow". and yet he made THE basic mistake! If he is half as good as Russian conflict writers claim, he would not meet PERSONALLY with HIGH RISK dispensable operatives. In other reports the place names etc are WRONG. No wonder snr intelligence officers ignored such "primary reports".

    Currently we have about 9000 British soldiers in Afghanistan and we spend £4.2 BILLION ($6.56 billion) annually. Still commanders and experts claim that this is NOT enough to meet troops requirements and they have insufficient equipment to fight the war.

    Pakistan on other hand has 100K military and para-military troops deployed in western region. Her TOTAL defense budget is $7.8 billion, which is 4.5% of total GDP. So £4.5 Billions are not enough to equip 9000 soldiers properly and Pakistan is supposed to equip 100K Soldiers deployed in region and fight with a fraction of $7.8 Billion! For the same QUALITY of equipment and determination as British soldiers should n't they spend $78 billion? but we know can't allow them to spend $78 billion because it's easy to say "do more" than SELLING night vision & body Armour equipment.

    One more important thing which people here conveniently ignore. There were no demonstrations on streets in Pakistan to pull-out or support Afghans. But there are definitely demonstrations everywhere against comments and demands like "do more". There is no general support for Pakistani or Afghan Talibans. If there was any, they would have toppled the government by now. Not too long ago they kicked Musharaf out, despite him having full support from Pakistani MILITARY, AMERICA & British administration.

    David Cameron's recent visit, every country he went to, he made comments to PLEASE host country. "Junior partners" in America, "Open prison" In Turkey and "export terrorism" in India.

    It took 56 dead and one fail terrorist attack in Glasgow to change general perception of British public. Why David Cameron thinks that Pakistanis would react differently! Those Talibans have killed more Pakistanis in bomb blasts than 9/11, 7/7, Bombay attacks, total allied forces casualties in Afghanistan (all put together).



  • Comment number 92.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 93.

    Whoops, a bit of a newbie PM mistake this, but Cameron simply said what many ordinary Brits think... which is a problem, because as a politician there is no room for any single truth without balance or spin.

    In this case there was little need to veil the truth in spin, Pakistan does have links with terror, but equally it is fighting the problem and many innocent peoples lives have been lost because of that fight.

    If he had recognised the truth with the cover of another truth then the statement would have become inert. As it is it has become a diplomatic faux-pa, which I am sure will blow over eventually.

    I like the fact that Cameron and Clegg say what is on their mind... Clegg said that the Iraq war was illegal, a bold and as far as I am concerned true statement, but poorly timed given the current wave of interviews in the inquiry. These two need to learn a little balance and humility before speaking, but do not stop telling the truth as you see it gents, its refreshing...

  • Comment number 94.

    Pakistan is behaving like a teenager that's been sent to their room. "You said we're not nice so we're not coming out to play any more, so there!"

    A more constructive action by Pakistan would be to openly and publicly denounce terrorism, AQ and the Taliban. State their intention to deal with this problem and then do it. Maybe then I might think they're being hard done to and sympathise a little.

    If we know Pakistan is knowingly harbouring terrorists (or acting passively towards them) then it needs to be said. If they're not then it's up to Pakistan to prove they're not.

  • Comment number 95.

    10. At 11:52pm on 31 Jul 2010, UKcerberus wrote:

    I don't care. Has anyone noticed that your comment can simply disappear? If the establishment doesn't like it, it just doesn't get past them. There's the mother of democracies for you!!
    ………………………………..
    For some reason, Ukcerberus, like Cameron, believes that democracy means you can bulldoze your way through everything, saying what you like, how you like, when you like. Don't think so, democracy does not equate to freedom, hence why our democracy is questionable! Cameron's comments about Pakistan, and other issues, were embarrassing for the UK. Cameron is only bothered about his own ego, that's has become very obvious. I have no respect for him, his idea of culture is based on the old imperialist idea that there is only one culture!

  • Comment number 96.

    While I expect that there is some truth to the allegations that some factions of the Pakistani government surreptitiously support terror, Cameron should have been more diplomatic about it.

    The Pakistani government knows that it is true as well, so of course they have to make more of a fuss about his comments.

  • Comment number 97.

    Only truth can be truly offensive.

    You call al Qaida/Taliban tacit supporter an al-Qaida/Taliban tacit supporter and you've offended that tacit supporter.

    Simple as that.

  • Comment number 98.

    cameron is an idiot, he is making a fool of the UK. Since when do we take Afghani intelligence reports on rival intelligence agencies as gospel.

  • Comment number 99.

    "What if Pakistan said that England should do more about tackling it's homegrown terrorist issues?"



    That is naturalized Britih citizens of Pakistani descent who travel to Waziristan for a terrorist training, as an ample evidence collected by both Scotland Yard and MI5 has demonstrated?

  • Comment number 100.


    "As there was no way for the American’s to supply the groups directly they had to go through Pakistan, there were a few different groups at that time, the Taliban and In the mid-1980s, the Afghan resistance movement..."






    Taliban has been created in Pakistan's madrassas (hence its name) in 1994, long after Soviets withddrew from Afghanistan.

    With a help of Pakistani ISI, in order to destablize and subjugate Afghanistan.

    [amply documented]

 

Page 1 of 11

BBC iD

Sign in

BBC navigation

BBC © 2014 The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.

This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.