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Are crime victims neglected by the penal system?

10:27 UK time, Tuesday, 20 July 2010

Victims of crime in England and Wales are treated as the "poor relation", a senior government advisor has claimed. Do you agree?

Senior government advisor, Louise Casey, says crime victims are often sidelined in a criminal system which focuses its attention on the perpetrator.

Ms Casey said that too much emphasis was placed on trying to help all victims of crime, rather than concentrating on those most in need.

Do you agree with Ms Casey's statements? Have you been a victim of crime? Were you happy with the support you received? Do you think the penal system could be improved?

Victim's struggle: Mother's account of her experiences of the criminal system.

This debate is now closed. Thank you for your comments.

Comments

Page 1 of 3

  • Comment number 1.

    I had to read this story twice!

    Surely we dont have a government advisor who believes that supporting victims is more important than supporting criminals? Whatever next a government minister who reads the opinion polls and supports banning the burka instead of ignoring public opinion......

    Cant wait to see what Ken Clarke has to say about this, being the man who doesnt want to clog up our prisons with those on short sentences!

  • Comment number 2.

    The example given is a heartbreaking tale about how the victims are sidelined. But before we start the daily wail rant about the criminals I would like us to identify the REAL criminals here.

    They are the lawyers, plain and simple.

    The whole legal system is run by the legal profession, for the legal profession.

    They exclude everyone from the decision making process, they decide what cases are heard, when, what the outcome is and how much money they will claim from the public/private purse.

    I would start to address the neglect of victims by fundemental changes to our courts and how they work.

    1 No more solicitors/barristers/QC's just 'attorney at law'.

    2 No more wigs, costumes and other paraphernalia, use a simple black cloak as they have in other countries.

    3 The abolition of the trial-by-jury right for petty crime (I served on a jury for two days for a crime of stealing less than £15 from a charity).

    4 Limit the amount of money spent on legal aid, have instead public defenders, a pool of lawyers who take on cases for people with no money. No more open check-books for lazy QC's.

    5 Have a TRIAL as soon as possible, certainly within a period of no more than three mionths.

    6 No automatic appeals, they must go before an independant judge who will be limited to a) faults with the trial, b) new evidence, c) sentence too long or short. (the last only to be discussed if other sentences can be compared against).

    Above all if a defendent brings in evidence of good conduct then the prosecutor can bring evidence of the good conduct of the victim.

    If we stop allowing the legal profession from using the system as their own private train-set maybe the victims of crime will stop being ignored.

  • Comment number 3.

    About time people realised that there are numerous support groups for criminals, there is one for victims. Doesn't sound right to me in any way. With all this yuman rights nonsense, why don't they actually focus on the human rights of the victim for a change?

  • Comment number 4.

    'Victims of crime in England and Wales are treated as the "poor relation", a senior government advisor has claimed.'

    Ok, given the cuts what are they actually going to do about it.

    Are they going to start using the money that would have been used to try to rehabilitate the criminal on compensation payments instead?

    What if the criminal reoffends - how is the next lot of compensation funded?

    Given the huge number of fraudulent compensation claims every year, is it really a good idea to increase compensation for the victims of crime?

    Won't it end up being another huge strain on some government departments budget?

    I understand Mr Casey's concern for the victim, but other than stating his concerns in a Daily Mail, state the obvious kind of way as far as I can tell he hasn't bothered to even think about the implications of substance of his comment, let alone providing any solutions.

  • Comment number 5.

    It is the CRIMINAL justice system. It's about dealing with CRIMINALS not victims. If victims need a system then let them have one when we can afford one. That could be a while though and is hardly a priority.

  • Comment number 6.

    Well as soon as the offender comes into the CJ System at the Back door of the Custody suite, the full weight of the state is their to help him. Immediately Free Independent Legal Advice, funded by the State. No matter if this is his first or hundredth offence. The right to see a Doctor or Nurse within 90 minutes... The right to see a drugs or alcohol worker. Then when charged with an offence and appearing before court, help in transport costs for his family to visit him in Jail, then a resettlement great, help with finding a Jobs, money for bus fares, officer expenditure etc... I dont begrudge any of these things if they will help to rehabilitate.
    What does the Victim get... ? Tea sympathy from the Police, Perhaps victim support help... But no where near as much support the offender gets

  • Comment number 7.

    I have read the artical re Ann Oakes-Odges son, and I agree that the victoms/families are the ones that suffer. The criminals seem to get everthing done for them and tough luck to the victims. We need a body in the Justice department to look after the Victims. We also need to stop the solicitors for the criminals taking up time to make sure their clients human rights are not affected. But what about the victims Human rights. Quite upsetting to read the artical and how very sad. I do agree with Casey statement that victims are sidelined. However all victims of crime must have access to help if they need it but this will cost money which this govenment is not willing to spend.

  • Comment number 8.

    Where criminal damage is proven then the person responsible must be made to repay with interest and 'make good' from their estate when they return to the outside world or taken by the courts at sentence.
    When a victim has suffered physical damage, all the bills for a return to health must be taken from the perpetrators estate via the NHS who must know the costs of such action.

  • Comment number 9.

    Having read JohnH Item 2 Lets hope SOMEONE takes notice..ASAP

  • Comment number 10.

    Are crime victims neglected by the penal system?

    Nah, as a liberal lefty in a non same sex relationship it's the prisoners I feel for!

    Let's face it, most crime victims must have had it coming and deserved it, it's disgusting how they're parading around looking for sympathy, whilst the perpetrators are held in institutions costing £28k per head with nothing but TV and Video games to distract them from the toil of regret!

  • Comment number 11.

    The perpetrators of crime have received relatively more attention than their victims, ever since the liberal left took over the so-called justice system. What is missing, in my view, is involvement of the victim in the punishment of the perpetrator, because sentencing is left to a group of people (judges) who by and large inhabit a different planet from the rest of us and are far too obsessed with matters of law than the administration of justice. Criminals must be punished - an old - fashioned word I know, but therein lies deterrence to committing crime. Our criminals are encouraged in their activities by (1) the odds are against them being caught and put before a court and (2) if (1) is achieved, often punishments are derisory. We are a country being buried under reams of laws, but with very little common sense and 'justice' and the criminals know it. (especially those of the adolescent variety).

  • Comment number 12.

    No idea, but it wouldn't surprise me after the last ten years of madness

  • Comment number 13.

    I read the article and thought, this woman is not the victim of the crime she is the parent of the victim. Just as Jamie Buldgers mother is not the victim of the crime she was the parent. once the criminal justice system has its slow grinding wheels in process there are blindly 2 sides the victim and crown prosecution service and the defendant and their legal representatives. The relatives and loved ones of the victim feature no where in this. Unless of course they were a witness to the crime otherwise there is absolutely no interest on the part of the cps as a crying mother does nothing to aid gaining a successful prosecution and "pay back" for the offence.

  • Comment number 14.

    There was a case about ten years ago about a 17 year old who had killed a man and claimed self-defence. This young offender, high on drugs, was letting down tyres when he was approached by the victim who had been doing DIY and had a chisel in his hand. A fight occured and the victim died, the 17 year old was found not guilty.

    What I found appalling about this story was that by the newspapers estimate the state had spent £250,000 on this young man so far. This included previous court appearences fo other offences, convictions, missed hearings etc.

    But what REALLY got my temper going was that coming from a deprived background this young man in his entire life had NEVER gone to court by his own means or public transport. He was driven to EVERY hearing he had ever attended by a social worker.

    As long as we treat people who commit crimes as 'victims of society' rather than 'victims of their own actions' then the true victims will always be ignored and neglected.

  • Comment number 15.

    Justice is supposed to be objective and impartial, emotional appeals have no part to play.
    Certainly there should be more support for victims of crime ,no one can argue against that.
    Victims want to see perpretrators arrested quickly, charged and put on trial as rapidly as possible and they want to be kept informed on the progress of their case. It would appear to be about improving the administration of justice, victims 'rights' doesn't mean perverting the administration of justice.

  • Comment number 16.

    Of course victims are ignored - the police send a standard letter as a token gesture in virtually all cases.

    All sympathy goes towards rehabiliating the criminal who is frequently a repeat offender and will only understand punishment. The PC brigade strike again.

    Almost no theft in Saudi where they chop off your hands. A lesson to be learned here?

  • Comment number 17.

    "At 10:48am on 20 Jul 2010, pzero wrote:

    Whatever next a government minister who reads the opinion polls and supports banning the burka instead of ignoring public opinion...."

    My God, doesn't the idea of having the Government dictate what people can wear scare the bejesus out of everyone?! It takes "Nanny State" to a whole new level!

    Or does it not count as long as it's only "them" the law applies to?

    I'm not saying I like the burqa but it scares me a lot less than a Government telling citizens how to dress.

  • Comment number 18.

    It is a feature of the decayed system of values in the west that victims are either ignored or insulted. Hence we have the psycopath al megrahi freed, murderers routinely let loose after a "life" sentence of fifteen years or less, and the nonsense that meeting a grinning gloating perpetrator is somehow "restorative" justice. The biggest insult to victims has to be the building of an islamic fascist mega mosque at ground zero.

  • Comment number 19.

    Victims should be prioritised at the expense of the criminals human rights if necessary. The legal system is a mess. Greedy lawyers might be mainly responsible but also are the namby pamby, whinning minority screeching on about human rights for criminals.

  • Comment number 20.

    There is support for victims of crime.

    Your G.P. and the Mental Health Teams in all Primary and Secondary Care Trusts.

    Support is there if you look for it and maybe the Police could be a bit better at signposting people to it, but that's not their job.

    And as for the statement 'it's the victims that suffer'. You think? Of course the victim suffers. That's what happens when you're a victim.

  • Comment number 21.

    How much is spent on the rehabilitation of criminals? I have no idea what it is but I would bet my pension that it is vastly more than that spent helping the victims to come to terms things. Commit a crime and you get punished, surely this should be the case. I am sure that some prisons aren't holiday camps but a large percentage of criminals return to their nefarious activities pretty much as soon as they can. The money spent "rehabilitating" them is therefore wasted. The majority of the British Public, especially those who have been victims of crime would like to see suitable retribution on their attackers.

    The victims are left to deal with their situation on their own or with the minimum of support. I have been the victim of crime and the only support I received was a short phone call from the Police asking if I was ok.

  • Comment number 22.

    Yes it is more biased towards supporting the crimial. While it is law and order will just get worse and cost more. We seem to reduce crime by altering what and the way the data is gathered. Crimes that are poorly detected (burglary et al) are just ignored, apart from being given a crime number for the Insurance (just to ensure your not a criminal too!)
    There will be no change its too late.

  • Comment number 23.

    Britain is soft on crime.

    But tough on the victims of crime.

  • Comment number 24.

    This is your one chance Mr Cameron to finally put into reality the promises of politicians for 20 years or more that the victims of crime will get better treatment and consideration. Don't let the country down. The balance of the criminal justice system is tipped too far in favour of the criminal, with little help for the victims of crime. Its time to put the namby-pamby bleeding heart brigade firmly in their place, the criminals get far too much help & resources which should be going towards helping crime victims. Don't break your promises on this one, ministers.

  • Comment number 25.

    "5. At 11:31am on 20 Jul 2010, wanna_be_free wrote:
    It is the CRIMINAL justice system. It's about dealing with CRIMINALS not victims. If victims need a system then let them have one when we can afford one. That could be a while though and is hardly a priority."


    I think this post could be placed on wikipedia as an example as the definition of "callous".

    Sorry, the victims need to be considered first. They did not choose to be victims. Perpetrators of crime make that choice.

  • Comment number 26.

    1. At 10:48am on 20 Jul 2010, pzero wrote:
    I had to read this story twice!
    Surely we dont have a government advisor who believes that supporting victims is more important than supporting criminals?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Perhaps if you didn't have to read some things twice, you'd have time to read a bit more widely. Louise Casey was appointed the first Victims' Commissioner by the Labour Government. Carry on.

  • Comment number 27.

    Post 13. At 11:59am on 20 Jul 2010, th3_0r4cl3 wrote: - have you really thought about what you have posted?

    OK so it wasn't the mother that was stabbed, it was her son. However, how can you say the mother is also not a victim? She, and the rest of her family, had to suffer the pain of their loss. You talk like the criminal with statements like your. They murder someone and think it ends there but they have no thought for the victims families who also suffer greatly and who are also victims of the criminals act.

  • Comment number 28.

    Are crime victims neglected by the penal system?

    Is the pope catholic?!!!



  • Comment number 29.

    18. At 12:17pm on 20 Jul 2010, varnayfan wrote:
    ....and the nonsense that meeting a grinning gloating perpetrator is somehow "restorative" justice.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Restorative justice has been proven to work in some cases. It won't work in every case, of course, but neither will the big stick approach.

  • Comment number 30.

    Im a victims campaigner after i was thrown into this so called justice system when my 2 yr old son was murdered by his father. I had to wait 18 months to bury him due to defence wanting more time for post mortem of which never ever took place. Now in this time i fought the government to have the law changed. This year the coroners law has changed and now includes Ryans Law which means no family has to wait more than 30 days after death to get the body back and have a burial. The law stood before that a body could be held for however long they wanted. This system is not for the victims and myself and my family were treated in the dark. We didnt know what was going on from one day to the next. We need a victims bill of rights of which im submitting to the victims commissoner very shortly. This unfairness has to stop and all rights need to stop going to the perpatrators, i will work with other victims and help where i can until my time is up..im very passionate about this and this is also my therapy which keeps me going, losing a child to murder is like no other..and dont even start me on victim support or CPS..criminal protection society and victim support if you have had your bag stolen

  • Comment number 31.

    yes they DO

  • Comment number 32.

    Poor woman, what an utter disgrace this country has become.

    Her son's body should have been returned to her as soon as the cause of death had been diagnosed. Any imbecile could see what had happened.

    The culprits should have been jailed for life; meaning life.

    We have a joke government, joke legal system, joke healthcare system, joke educational system, joke banking system...

    But, to cause victims of serious crime to suffer like this is beyond a joke.

    It simply shows us that our legal system is a carcass, pecked over by those most insidious of parasites...legal professionals... all of them need to take a long hard look at themselves in the light of cases like this. If only they could be made to suffer as much as this woman has suffered; that would be justice.

  • Comment number 33.

    Yes but it also persecutes people for nothing, i always assumed that for a crime to be committed you need a victim but thats just not the case is it.

  • Comment number 34.

    Absolutely

    I was the victim of an assault nearly three years ago, The case still hasn't come to court because the bloke never turns up. Why can't he be judged in abstencia, sentenced and ideally hung. But we know that won't happen.

    I know someone who was glassed in a pub, the perpetrator tried to use Human rights legislation to stop the police seeing his hand that he cut in the process. Where is the right of the victim in that.

    The pendulum has swing so far the other way and no-one can anything about it, because of stupid human rights laws.

    If we used the simple principle you lose you human rights the moment you violate another persons human rights we would be making a start to turn this round.

  • Comment number 35.

    The judicial system in this country favours the criminal and allows the corrupt law firms to make large amounts of money "protecting" these worthless criminals. The job of corrupt law firm is to humiliate the victims of crime in order to lie and get their "clients" off Scott free. In addition, criminals in jail can expect a comfortable life, with Gyms, Libraries, OU courses, Sky TV, Games rooms, etc all paid for by the tax payer.

    Crime the only growth industry left in Britain. The Tories must act now and address the many problems and, unlike Labour, report the true crime figures and the true costs to the nation and above all, act to sort it out.

  • Comment number 36.

    I'm all for more victim support, principally from the police. I live in a fairly isolated rural area & can assure all that if any would-be burglar, vandal et al breaks into my property then they will get what they deserve (that could involve 2 barrels of shot in the face or an encounter with a large angry dog, but under our convoluted laws that would make me the criminal). It would take our constabulary about an hour to get an officer round to me so what am supposed to do let these people rob me & my family (or worse). Don't think so. Criminal rights - yep, take them out.

  • Comment number 37.

    This country is only interested in supporting the perpetrators of crime...this is an absolute fact.

    Victims are made to feel like it is in some way their fault the crimes were committed against them.

    We should be building mnore prisons and getting crims locked up in them....and making them stay there for the whole of their sentence too.

  • Comment number 38.

    The criminal justice system cares little for victims. It's emphasis is on conviction and rehabilitation. These days the factor of human rights plays too much part in how offenders are treated while no legislation exists that seeks to protect victims of crime and their families.

    Add to this the fact that finding a reason for a person to commit an offence seams to provide mitigation in the rule of law against the seriousness of their offence.

    So if someone's mad they only serve a few years for killing someone.

    We got rid of the death penalty for murder in this country. Since then many murders now get labelled as man-slaughter. How does this fair with victims? They may still have died a horrible death.

    Our criminal law needs completely overhauling for any type of assault. It should be based around the support of the victim.

    People who defend themselves should not be tried for murder. Mad people who murder should not be tried for man slaughter. How can we have two opposing attitudes in law?

    If you go to Wikipedia and look at people currently serving whole life sentences you may be shocked to see how many were previously convicted of killing and released after such a short time. If you fought for justice for your destroyed life then why should killers be ever allowed to be free?

  • Comment number 39.

    I don't know if victims are treated as a "poor relation". However I do think that society is developing a 'poor me' attitude, fuelled by sensationalist media reports whetre everyone is a 'victim' I do think that the focus should be on DEALING with the perpetrator. For the victims support should come by those best equipped to provide it: close family and friends and the victims of dreadful crimes given the quiet dignity to move on with the support of those who they know and trust.

  • Comment number 40.

    Surely if we stop the criminals we wouldn't have victims. Most criminals have more than one victim. It's the minor victims who have problems the others sell their story to the News of the World, Sun or Daily Mail

  • Comment number 41.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 42.

    YES. We the Ordinary Decent People are neglected by the so called justice systems.

    I was a victim of criminal damage, £750 worth of new tyres slashed. Only a token investigation was mounted. Had this been done to a police vehicle I have no doubt whatsoever that a full investigation would have been mounted and the perpetrator(s) found and punished.

    Claim put into Criminal Claims Compensation Board but ignored.

    It seems the police will only investigate a crime if there is profit to be made, the state is harmed or the particular crime attracts a lot of publicity.

  • Comment number 43.

    Why do we so frequently hear someone telling us what has been common knowledge for donkeys years?

    What with human rights lawyers, the growth of specialist counsellors and police co-ordinators all working hard to listen to, understand and sympathize with the perpetrator, has it been any wonder that the victim and his/her family have suffered increasing neglect?

    It's time the do-gooders took a look in the mirror, and switched their attention to the victims of crime.

  • Comment number 44.

    Sounds like a "Big Society" Issue to me!

    Perhaps juries and victims should be given a larger role in sentencing

    And maybe introducing juries to appeals and the high courts would also help.

    Judges and lawyers should have far less influence on the justice system.

  • Comment number 45.

    I wouldn't be suprised if victims of crime are being neglected.
    But realistically, it it isn't the job of the Justice System to support them, it should be another department with specialist training to help victims of all crime.

    Everything already comes down to the cost of prosecution, if the Justice System has to include the cost of supporting victims, there's a higher chance of injustice.

  • Comment number 46.

    34. At 1:00pm on 20 Jul 2010, Sat_tire wrote:
    "I know someone who was glassed in a pub, the perpetrator tried to use Human rights legislation to stop the police seeing his hand that he cut in the process. Where is the right of the victim in that.
    The pendulum has swing so far the other way and no-one can anything about it, because of stupid human rights laws.
    If we used the simple principle you lose you human rights the moment you violate another persons human rights we would be making a start to turn this round."
    -----
    You overstate. The attempted use of human rights legislation to stop his hand being examined failed.

    Your last sentence is particularly stupid. This "simple principle" would mean you are entitled to rape people who accidentally run their car into yours.

    "Sat_tire" -- of a sort.

  • Comment number 47.

    No Victim No Crime wrote:
    Yes but it also persecutes people for nothing, i always assumed that for a crime to be committed you need a victim but thats just not the case is it.

    --------------------------------

    What would you class a a victim-less crime? carrying dangerous weapons.

  • Comment number 48.

    Ms Casey seems to misunderstand the service Victim Support provides, which is unfortunate given her role. When a crime is reported to the police they are supposed to inform the victim about VS. At the moment 98% of referrals received by VS come from the police. These are sent electronically every day to the Victim Care Officers in VS Plus. A VCO will phone the victim if a number has been provided, and send out a letter. The victim's details are then passed to the appropriate branch to be allocated to a volunteer or specialist case worker. There are a number of factors that affect who at VS will deal with a case depending on the region, area, branch and level of funding. It is highly unlikely that someone will "receive 3 phonecalls about a stolen lawnmower" unless that victim has asked for the contact and needs the support, e.g. with filling in insurance forms. Victims are individuals and everyone has different needs. An apparently minor crime to Ms Casey may not be so minor to the victim and her comment about the stolen lawnmower was superficial and judgemental. All victims have their needs assessed by VS staff and volunteers as the case progresses.
    Victim Support do not provide support to children who have been abused. Any case that involves a safeguarding issue is dealt with by social services and specialist children's services. Victim Support do provide practical and emotional support to parents of children who are the victims of crime, and specially trained volunteers will work directly with young victims with parental consent or at the request of the child if that child is deemed competent.
    In murder and manslaughter cases there is now a new national homicide service so that bereaved families have a single point of contact to coordinate all the help they need. These workers are employed by Victim Support and have specially trained volunteers to help them. This service was launched on 26th April 2010.
    For more information check out the Victim Support website.

  • Comment number 49.

    The legal profession can't make any cash from the victims, but the legal aid system for the criminals is a blank cheque for the "honest " lawyers who make a fortune defending the lowest forms of human life who are protected by the law in every possible way. This can never be changed, because sadly most of our politicians are members of the legal profession and they are certainly not going to rock the boat.

  • Comment number 50.

    We spend too much court time prosecuting victimless pseudo-crimes such as drug possession/growing in the first place, so decriminalise those for a starter and place them in a system of civil penalties like parking fines.
    The courts then have more time to hear cases of real crimes (those against a person or their property) in such case the criminal's personal situation should not be used to exacerbate of or excuse them of guilt and should only be record as a point of information for research purposes or to decide the level of punishment within a range comparable with like crimes & circumstances.
    Civil penalties should not appear in police officers' crime detection rating, instead a police officer's performance should only be measured in their performance at bringing real crimes to successful prosecution with cases being delivered to the court system in a short time frame. I.e they would have to be efficient and effective at gathering evidence and catching the criminal and make the victim feel like the appropriate outcomes are being achieved in an appropriate time-scale.

  • Comment number 51.

    I'm not trying to be funny...but isn't it right that the criminal justice system concentrates it's efforts on securing convictions for the guilty perpatrators?? Afterall, that's what it's main purpose is.

    I'm not saying we should forget about the victims, but in my opinion they do receive very good support after a traumatic crime. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't our police have specially trained family/victim liaison officers? Don't victims get offered free counselling? Aren't they entitled to claim some sort of compensation? Plus aren't there a number of charities that help provide counselling, support and guidance to victims of crime?? All in all it seems to me that victims of crime are very reasonably well looked after in the UK.

    My wallet was once pick-pocketed from my jacket, and as terribly annoying as it was, I can't say I was atall traumatised by it...but I still got a very sympathic letter from the police offering me counselling and guidance on all sorts of support networks. That dosn't sound like an unsympathetic system to me.

  • Comment number 52.

    39. At 1:12pm on 20 Jul 2010, callaspadeaspade wrote:
    "I don't know if victims are treated as a "poor relation". However I do think that society is developing a 'poor me' attitude, fuelled by sensationalist media reports whetre everyone is a 'victim' I do think that the focus should be on DEALING with the perpetrator. For the victims support should come by those best equipped to provide it: close family and friends and the victims of dreadful crimes given the quiet dignity to move on with the support of those who they know and trust."

    Well said

  • Comment number 53.

    "39. At 1:12pm on 20 Jul 2010, callaspadeaspade wrote:
    I don't know if victims are treated as a "poor relation". However I do think that society is developing a 'poor me' attitude, fuelled by sensationalist media reports whetre everyone is a 'victim' I do think that the focus should be on DEALING with the perpetrator. For the victims support should come by those best equipped to provide it: close family and friends and the victims of dreadful crimes given the quiet dignity to move on with the support of those who they know and trust."


    You are assuming that the victims have family and friends; that they will want to discuss possibly very intimate issues such as rape or incest with family and friends. It may be that the people they thought they knew and trusted have been found to be completely untrustworthy.

    Some of the support would be similar to that which perpetrators of crime receive at present - professional help just to go out of their home again, to regain the confidence to find a job, to be able to meet people.

    Some well-meaning families and friends do not have the empathy to understand. Or enough time. Or the expertise. And are woefully unequipped.

  • Comment number 54.

    another couple of points:

    £15 pound being stolen from a charity is not a 'petty crime' it is a real crime and should dealt with as such. After all if a petty criminal is put through a softy system because they are too petty for the proper system then there is no experience to stop them from progressing to bigger crimes. Its this greedy, big fish attitude that the police have which causes the public & victims to be dissatisfied with the police as an institution.

    And until the petty daily mail readers get down from their high horses and actually do something about abolishing poverty then there will always be criminals who are victims of society as much as a victim of their own choices.

  • Comment number 55.

    37. At 1:09pm on 20 Jul 2010, Sepenenre wrote:
    "This country is only interested in supporting the perpetrators of crime...this is an absolute fact.

    Victims are made to feel like it is in some way their fault the crimes were committed against them.

    We should be building mnore prisons and getting crims locked up in them....and making them stay there for the whole of their sentence too."

    Sorry to be blunt...but the above comment is complete tripe in my opinion.

    There is no way the poster can support the first point he/she makes with any sort of hard evidence that makes it 'absolute fact'. Please try and read something else other than the Daily Mail and maybe you'd realise this. My brother was seriously assaulted some years ago, and he did blame himself for a short time, but the family liaison officer always reiterated that he most certainly was NOT at fault...so I don't agree with the second point either. Like I said...sorry, but just complete Daily Mail reading tripe.

  • Comment number 56.

    "Are crime victims neglected by the penal system?"

    Read this quickly and you may think an insurance company is about to turn its attention on the claimant, guilty of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Read it again to check, and it may be music to your ears, if you have have ever been a victim. Except it is an amateur play in a professional game.

    First time victims often experience paranoia, trauma of a kind not unrelated to components of bereavement. There can be anger at themselves in bucket loads. Hopefully they produce methods of repelling further 'soft' attacks.

    First time offenders may experience guilt, the paranoia of being caught, charged, and despatched. They may never break the law again.

    And then there is the multi-victim and the multi-offender, and the multi-crime prevention system. A hive where big predators thrive on little prey. Who says they do not deserve the company they keep?

  • Comment number 57.

    "Well as soon as the offender comes into the CJ System at the Back door of the Custody suite, the full weight of the state is their to help him. Immediately Free Independent Legal Advice, funded by the State. No matter if this is his first or hundredth offence. The right to see a Doctor or Nurse within 90 minutes... The right to see a drugs or alcohol worker. Then when charged with an offence and appearing before court, help in transport costs for his family to visit him in Jail, then a resettlement great, help with finding a Jobs, money for bus fares, officer expenditure etc... I dont begrudge any of these things if they will help to rehabilitate.
    What does the Victim get... ? Tea sympathy from the Police, Perhaps victim support help... But no where near as much support the offender gets"

    Don't forget the gym, education,dentist, eye car any amount of FREE letters they want, TV, stereo's, X-box's the list just goes on and on...

  • Comment number 58.

    I would have to agree. I reported a paedophile for breaking his release conditions. When he appeared in court it was disclosed that I had made a statement against him. The case was subsequently withdrawn. The man then challenged my disabled partner in the street & threatened to kill me. My partner, the gentleman he is, told the man that he would have to go through him. The paedophile physically attacked him, since my partner was physically unable to run away he responded in kind. Because the law required that both be arressted the police noted this incident as a verbal altercation because they didn't want to arrest my partner for defending himself. Following that incident the paedophile's elderly mother knocked on our door to harass us due to her son's action & try to put me on a guilt trip about his alcoholism. A couple of days later the same man vandalised our car, despite a couple of neighbours witnessing this they refused to give statements to the police because they didn't want to be subjected to the same behaviour. My partner has now had to move our car from the driveway to a garage at a financial cost as well as the inconvenience and pain of having to walk a distance to get to his MOBILITY car.

    I have recently been sent another letter requesting that I attend the court to give evidence against this man. I have been trying to contact witness protection or the officer in charge of the case to attempt to get an injunction before giving evidence, but no one has bothered to get back to me, not even just to provide a little reassurance. I have no complaints about the local bobbies, they've done everything in their power to control the situation, but have been let down by the courts. I see why people don't get involved, they're great when they're giving the courts & detectives what they want, but are afforded little or no protection. It's about time human rights legislation was as vociferously enforced for the victims as it is for the criminal.

  • Comment number 59.

    The first court case I followed through showed me that the victim is bottom of the heap. A car thief with previous convictions sold a car on HP. After a pathetic fine and minuscule costs the thief made a PROFIT of over £200, (nearly three months wages for me at the time) The victim lost nearly £400.
    That was in 1969, nothing has improved since then. Except the conditions under which convicted criminals are NOT punished.

  • Comment number 60.

    Are crime victims neglected by the penal system?


    Absolutely!!!


    The only way it will ever change is when the financial costs to government, of compensating victims of crime is greater than the cost of building new prisons.

  • Comment number 61.

    I firmly believe we need capital punishment reintroducing - for repeat offenders, career criminals and paedophiles at least. I'm sure the usual namy pambys will start moaning and screeching at how it doesn't work. Well I suppose you are right in that it certainly doesn't rehabilitate for obvious reasons. Is it a deterrent? I'm not sure about that either. But what it does do is remove these repeat offenders from society. If the usual prison laws (and support) applied then we can rehabilitate the ones that can be rehabilitated. They should be given a final warning that next time its the lethal injection. If they carry on then removing them from society is the best way of dealing with it - and on the plus side saves the tax payer a bit of cash too. Everyones a winner except repeat offenders, career criminals and paedophiles - and its high time we stopped caring about them.

  • Comment number 62.

    Ms Casey seems to misunderstand the service Victim Support provides, which is unfortunate given her role. When a crime is reported to the police they are supposed to inform the victim about VS. At the moment 98% of referrals received by VS come from the police. These are sent electronically every day to the Victim Care Officers in VS Plus. A VCO will phone the victim if a number has been provided, and send out a letter. The victim's details are then passed to the appropriate branch to be allocated to a volunteer or specialist case worker. There are a number of factors that affect who at VS will deal with a case depending on the region, area, branch and level of funding. It is highly unlikely that someone will "receive 3 phonecalls about a stolen lawnmower" unless that victim has asked for the contact and needs the support, e.g. with filling in insurance forms. Victims are individuals and everyone has different needs. An apparently minor crime to Ms Casey may not be so minor to the victim and her comment about the stolen lawnmower was superficial and judgemental. All victims have their needs assessed by VS staff and volunteers as the case progresses.
    Victim Support do not provide support to children who have been abused. Any case that involves a safeguarding issue is dealt with by social services and specialist children's services. Victim Support do provide practical and emotional support to parents of children who are the victims of crime, and specially trained volunteers will work directly with young victims with parental consent or at the request of the child if that child is deemed competent.
    In murder and manslaughter cases there is now a new national homicide service so that bereaved families have a single point of contact to coordinate all the help they need. These workers are employed by Victim Support and have specially trained volunteers to help them. This service was launched on 26th April 2010.
    For more information check out the Victim Support website.


    I can see you work for victim support as its the usual script writing. Please go and ask families of serious crime what they think of your beloved victims support. Not one of them will praise you and i know hundreds of families left behind after murder and manslaugher and not one of them rates victim support at all. Now when you have 1.5 million cases to deal with every year but over 4 million crimes being comitted, it doesnt make your agency look very well organised or managed properly. See the flaws that you have and maybe then you can start to restructure..start with lowering salaries then victims can be helped more, idea?????

  • Comment number 63.

    Ms Casey and her family have my full sympathy, I can relate to part of what she has been going through, and she is right, it is ongoing and there is very little closure.
    Unfortunately, the victims of crime or death through crime are left by the way side because it is an emotional aspect that the law, layers, the police the judiciary cannot deal with, because they dont know how. The emotional pain and grief at the loss of a loved one is uncomfortable to deal with for most people, but to try and quantify it in law is a very hard thing to do.This is why the law takes over, it sterilises the emotions and keeps things just to the facts of the case, the facts of the death, how it occurred and why.
    Unfortunately victims and their families do get left behind, and I am guessing its because an emotional issue cannot be taken into account incase it swings opinion of judge/jurors/prosecuters/police etc in favour of the wrong verdict.
    I do agree, this situation must change, if only to ditch the points system on compensation, a loss of anyone cannot be quantified by how much they are worth due to points. Everyone is worth something to someone, and a points system makes some people look worth more than others. That is unfair. The same with the time to bury a person after death, that also is too long, I suggest we need more pathologists and coroners in the hospital and justice system specifically for events like this. It is lunacy for a lawyer to have a hold over whether someone is buried or not just so they can stall for time.

  • Comment number 64.

    Gosh someone noticed! Round here a police person is a rare sight - except when there is an election or a threat to their well being! Frankly as a victim I was left enraged. The police get 'expert' advice to the effect that the damage caused was due to walls crumbling due to old age. That despite the fact that there were a host of walls all failing in the same night and people were actually seen kicking them! All they wanted to do was hand out incident numbers to allow claims.

  • Comment number 65.

    54. Orangeandmango wrote:
    another couple of points:

    £15 pound being stolen from a charity is not a 'petty crime' it is a real crime and should dealt with as such. After all if a petty criminal is put through a softy system because they are too petty for the proper system then there is no experience to stop them from progressing to bigger crimes. Its this greedy, big fish attitude that the police have which causes the public & victims to be dissatisfied with the police as an institution.

    And until the petty daily mail readers get down from their high horses and actually do something about abolishing poverty then there will always be criminals who are victims of society as much as a victim of their own choices.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Not a bit of it.

    The person who stole the money from the charity did it to gamble with. They used the jury system (they knew they would have been found guilty in a magiustrates court)to play the 'victim' and so the seeds of doubt (successfully as it turned out) in the minds of the majority of the jury. With so much sympathy generated the accused was banking on getting off, which they did, we just gave up.

    The point I made was that this 'victims of society' coldly and calmly used the legal system to get off.

    As long as criminals have the legal profession on their side, victims (who do not bring any money to the lawyers) will be neglected.

  • Comment number 66.

    The blame lies right on the doorstep of the EU Human Rights (HR) Laws. Since UK stealthily (via Tony Blair) adopted them, the HR of the criminal must be taken into account when punishment etc. is considered. As usual the UK jobsworths follow to the letter in building up their taxpayer funded empires.

    We need to extract ourselves from these EU bureaucracy enhancing laws and bring in sensible replacement legislation where a convicted criminal loses many of his/her rights.

    Get rid of stupid "life sentence" which is meaningless. Get rid of "concurrent" jail terms and tarrifs. The judge to have a list of max/min for a crime and he/she starts at the max & reduces for mitigating circumstances (like HMRC tax penalties). The term is a number of years to be served full stop, with time ADDED for bad behaviour.

    Repeat crimes to have the previous sentence doubled until, if no lessons are learned, it's in until death - whatever the crimes.

    No-one should be walking the streets with 247 offences to their name, even if they are all for theft. (remember Tony Martin).

    The Coalition is moving in the right direction, but Cameron promised us a repeal of the EU HR lLws. We need this right now.

  • Comment number 67.

    Another immensely important reason why the UK needs to embrace Restorative Justice (beyond its current minimal use in Youth Justice).

    Putting the victim, injured party, those associated with the victim and the community at the centre of the "conflict" (crime) is the basis of this very simple yet brilliant philosophy. It is ridiculous how victims pay for crimes twice over, ie. through loss/injury and then by having their taxes spent locking up the offenders for an ineffective, un-rehabilitative waste of time in prison, only for 60+% to reoffend later. Offenders need to be shown the effect their crimes have had, instead of removing them from it all, and victims need a better say in what THEY want to happen...instead of the state taking over.

    Ken Clarke's speech earlier this month outlined why RJ is the way forward, and I couldn't agree more.

  • Comment number 68.

    While all these comments focus on the legal process, im wondering if more can be done at the end of the process, ie sentencing. In some crimes, ie car crime, petty theft, breaking and entering etc, while these can be shocking, they may also sometimes (not always) be less traumatic. Int hat case, if monetary compensation is deemed to be a good result for the victim, why cannot the taxpayer pay an amount decided by a judge, and the perpetrator be put to work for the state (cleaning grafitti springs to mind) while any wage that would have been earned goes to the state until the compensation is paid back to the taxpayer. Sure we would still have to have the criminal jailed over night and fed etc, but we house and feed criminals now anyway.

  • Comment number 69.

    40 years ago, when I was a young man with a rather bad reputation, my Gran who raised me after my mother had disowned me at birth, was mugged by a couple of lowlife scum and slightly injured.
    On hearing about the mugging, I went to my grans house, and after parking my car started to walk towards her house.
    I was approached by 2 guys who introduced them selves as detectives, and asked if I was her grandson.
    When I said yes, they then proceeded to tell me that if anything nasty happened to the muggers the police would come looking for ME.
    Then then asked what sort of sentence I would be happy with the muggers recieveing to prevent any nasty accidents happening to them.
    I told them that 2 years in prison would prevent any accidents.
    When arrested it came out that they had mugged 40 other old lady's.
    After being found guilty they recieved a 2 year prison sentence each.( maybe it was a coincidence ).However I did recieve another visit fron the detectives asking if I was happy with the sentences and if the matter was now closed.
    My point is that the judicial system will only deal with the criminals in a meaningful way if they are worried about the possibility of the victim (or relatives) making their own justice.
    The police and the justice system ignore the plight of victims because they assume the victim will be far to law abiding to take matters into their own hands.
    ( for the benifit of the moderators who will most probably be bleeding heart liberals I must make it clear that I AM NOT advocating Vigilante
    action).I would only consider taking action if the accused was found guilty in a court of law and then let off with a meaningless sentence.


  • Comment number 70.

    "
    49. At 1:39pm on 20 Jul 2010, kaybraes wrote:
    "

    Very true, well said.

  • Comment number 71.

    I can only relate what happened to myself.

    I was burgled. I reported it and was given a criminal reference number 'for my insurance company'. 2 days later a constable arrived and spoke with me and my wife. He told me not to clean the window and surfaces because 'SOCO will come and investigate'. After three weeks I thought it best to clean the area. It is now 7 years ago and I am still awaiting SOCO.

    My car was broken into in a public car park. I again telephoned our wonderful Police Force. I was given a telephone number to call for, yes you have guessed, a 'criminal refrence number for my insurance company'. The person answering the original call told me the Police 'do not investigate car crime'.

    You couldn't make it up.

  • Comment number 72.

    How can you expect any help for victims when the government also "create" them whenever people are accused falsely of crime and then splashed all over the press?The whole justice system is corrupt and justice is basically a political knockabout for the government of the day.Government doesnt really care who is a victim if their political dogma is served. What was the Blair speech-tough on crime tough on the causes of crime!-and the Tory mantra-prison works!
    Note that the "victim" is never mentioned. For all victims whether by crime or false accusation the government should change the law to let those honest people have their lives back instead of using them for their own twisted ends.Will it change?Pigs might fly.

  • Comment number 73.

    52. At 1:51pm on 20 Jul 2010, Nic121 wrote:
    39. At 1:12pm on 20 Jul 2010, callaspadeaspade wrote:
    "I don't know if victims are treated as a "poor relation". However I do think that society is developing a 'poor me' attitude, fuelled by sensationalist media reports whetre everyone is a 'victim' I do think that the focus should be on DEALING with the perpetrator. For the victims support should come by those best equipped to provide it: close family and friends and the victims of dreadful crimes given the quiet dignity to move on with the support of those who they know and trust."

    Well said

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well Nic121 and callaspadeaspade, when someone has had a child murdered by some evil thug then are you really surprised if they have a "poor me attitude"? I think you might feel a bit raw too. Just to rub salt into the wound the pathetic sentences handed down by our useless government and pathetic legal system to these evil monsters, who in a civilised society should be given the death penalty.

    As for your ridiculous comment: "close family and friends and the victims of dreadful crimes given the quiet dignity to move on with the support of those who they know and trust."

    Would you be able to move on knowing the person that murdered your child is walking free?

  • Comment number 74.

    It depends on what individual victims need.

    Having been a victim of violent crime myself, my personal need was to see the perpetrators dealt with and punished adequately. I didn't want any money spent on me. Unfortunately they weren't, despite me knowing their names, they were caught on camera and seen by witnesses, they plead guilty in court, and admitted they were on drugs at the time.

    The system was too lenient with punishment and they all were free to commit further violent crime. So the system failed me but more importantly the other victims that followed. One of whom I saw viciously attack a man with a bike chain in front of the man's wife and child.

    My answer would be this... invest in a greater and larger punishment system that can incorporate much more of the petty criminals. If the courts fail to convict then so be it. But those who are convicted should face punishment. Punishment of the criminal is victim support in itself. It offers a lot more peace of mind than counseling when the criminal is roaming free.

  • Comment number 75.

    Almost no theft in Saudi where they chop off your hands. A lesson to be learned here?

    ----------------------------

    Almost no freedom in Saudi Arabia. A lesson to be learned here?

  • Comment number 76.

    "I'm not saying I like the burqa but it scares me a lot less than a Government telling citizens how to dress."

    They are not telling their citizens how to dress. They are telling their citizens how NOT to dress - a very different thing. Would you like it if everyone you met was wearing, say, a balaclava or a full-face mask?

    As for the question on this HYS, to wit, "Are crime victims neglected by the penal system?" the answer is clearly - YES!

  • Comment number 77.

    Are crime victims neglected by the penal system?
    Yes, I agree with Senior Government Advisor, Louise Casey - crime victims are often sidelined. Incongruously, I also agree with her statement that too much emphasis was placed on trying to help all victims of crime, rather than concentrating on those most in need.
    All that this means is that the victim attention needs be attached to the seriousness of the crime. To me, that seems to make common-sence.


  • Comment number 78.

    orangeand mango wrote.
    And until the petty daily mail readers get down from their high horses and actually do something about abolishing poverty then there will always be criminals who are victims of society as much as a victim of their own choices.

    What a load of Ballcocks the above statement is.

    I was raised in poverty, No TV, hand me down clothes, not much food.
    That was poverty and I, and millions of others in the same situation didnt decend into a life of crime.

    Its all about GREED, I want my drugs so I will go out and commit crime, I want my beer, fags, sky tv, computers,wee games and designer clothes.
    WORK ??? hell NO, it takes less effort to commit crime and I don't have to get out of bed early.

    You insult the many people in dire poverty who lead honest lives by insinuating that poverty is a root cause of criminal activity.
    It is NOT poverty, IT IS GREED.

  • Comment number 79.

    Justice Minister Nick Herbert welcomed Louise Casey's preliminary report, sayign the government was planning "radical reform of policing, probation and prisons".
    ------------------------------------

    Hmmm - I'll believe it when I see it.

    The Government, whether it's this one or the last one, always seems to be planning 'radical reforms'. The problem is, these reforms never seem to get past the planning stage. When is someone going to actually DO something?

  • Comment number 80.

    Well, the criminal is the innocent victim in all this and has to be pampered.... any spare time can be devoted to the person assaulted or burgled etc ....

    Am I being cynical?

  • Comment number 81.

    Victim support, at the moment, is merely a paper exercise. I don't need a victim support leaflet because someone has snapped the mirror off my car.

    On the other side criminals have no end of help. From friendly police giving out cautions instead of arrests, through the CPS deciding not to proceed with prosecutions to judges handing out ridiculously low sentences and Social workers falling over themselves to give the offenders chances law abiding people only dream of.

    The criminal justice system is seriously skewed.

  • Comment number 82.

    Have to agree with Labourbrokebritain's post(61).

    Another problem in today's society is that is if you see someone in trouble there is no incentive to help. You'll either be beaten up, killed, convicted yourself or sued. At least that's the perception.If you're a witness there is a chance you'll be intimidated and targeted.

    Also if you do bring someone to justice you get the feeling they'll be out in a few months anyway.

    Self defence normally leads the "victim" to be convicted. Is that fair?

  • Comment number 83.

    Totally.....100%.

  • Comment number 84.

    Jamie Cole wrote:
    "At 10:48am on 20 Jul 2010, pzero wrote:

    Whatever next a government minister who reads the opinion polls and supports banning the burka instead of ignoring public opinion...."

    My God, doesn't the idea of having the Government dictate what people can wear scare the bejesus out of everyone?! It takes "Nanny State" to a whole new level!

    Or does it not count as long as it's only "them" the law applies to?

    I'm not saying I like the burqa but it scares me a lot less than a Government telling citizens how to dress.

    So Jamie,

    How much does a religion that tells you how to dress scare you?

    Oh and one that tells you it's ok to kill unbeleivers (not of your faith)?

  • Comment number 85.

    Victims are always ignored, always have been. The needs of the criminal is paramount in todays world and it is disgusting.

  • Comment number 86.

    I was raised to respect the police. Having been the victim of an aggravated burglary and a witness to an armed robbery, my respect has diminished. The burgler was sent to jail for 3 years - my partner caught him by the way and I stood up in court an gave evidence. Without any warning, I saw him on my street 18 months later. I was willing to give evidence on the robbery and was told I may have to change my holiday dates. I heard nothing further. Fairly mild compared to some but enough for this law abiding citizen to wonder 'why bother'.

  • Comment number 87.

    whilst victims are unfortunate the primary goal of the criminal justice system is to reduce crime not to appease victims.

  • Comment number 88.

    Not only are victimes sidelined, but if a victim is also a witness, they are generally treated like liars and who's evidence is treated as less than solid fact. While the criminal's 'word' is held as truth to be countered by the legal system. There's no doubt the system is simply upside down.

  • Comment number 89.

    My wife had her cycle stolen from outside the town sports centre which a hundred yards from the police station and monitored by 16 CCTV's.

    The police issued a crime number because the assumed (rightly) that we would make an insurance claim (we did and got the payout in 3 days).

    When my wife went to the station to see if there was any progress she was told that the incident was now classed as 'closed'. This was despite the criminal being clearly identified on CCTV, and his name and address was obtainable from the sports centre. At my wife's insistence they re-opened the case and interviewed him weeks later when he denied everything.

    We are now told we have to commit to a 'Big Society' and do more for our comunity. It's about time we told our legal people, police, lawyers, social workers etc. that we will no longer be put upon by a bunch of predetors who live off the rest of society big and small.

    Lets all say out loud that we will no longer be 'neglected victims' and that we want the legal professionals to do their job for ALL society.

  • Comment number 90.

    LabourBrokeBritain, bring in Capital punishment, for repeat offenders, perverts and career crims.

    I like the cut of your jib sonny!

  • Comment number 91.

    What the victims of crime want above all else is those who made them victims caught and jailed for a long time.

  • Comment number 92.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 93.

    91. At 4:27pm on 20 Jul 2010, John Sparks wrote:
    What the victims of crime want above all else is those who made them victims caught and jailed for a long time.


    Actually, studies show that most victims of crime have they following priorities:

    1) Why me?
    2) What's being done to stop it happening again?
    3) punishment and retribution come next

  • Comment number 94.

    I agree, the victim and their family is sidelined. The law allows criminals to "talk" their way out of true punishment. Despite all the evidence, criminals are above the law. The family waited months to bury their son, it is the same story over and over again. It will never change until someone somewhere takes the law into his own hands and does something about it. Only then will attitudes, fears and thoughts change and the British nation have pride in its legal system.

  • Comment number 95.

    27. At 12:41pm on 20 Jul 2010, daven's32ndestablishment wrote:have you really thought about what you have posted?

    OK so it wasn't the mother that was stabbed, it was her son. However, how can you say the mother is also not a victim? She, and the rest of her family, had to suffer the pain of their loss. You talk like the criminal with statements like your. They murder someone and think it ends there but they have no thought for the victims families who also suffer greatly and who are also victims of the criminals act.

    That was my entire point that unless you are the perpetrator of the offence or the direct victim then the police and criminal justice system does not want to know as your grief does nothing in helping them secure the conviction.

  • Comment number 96.

    #74. At 3:00pm on 20 Jul 2010, BradyFox wrote:
    It depends on what individual victims need.

    Having been a victim of violent crime myself, my personal need was to see the perpetrators dealt with and punished adequately. I didn't want any money spent on me. Unfortunately they weren't, despite me knowing their names, they were caught on camera and seen by witnesses, they plead guilty in court, and admitted they were on drugs at the time.

    The system was too lenient with punishment and they all were free to commit further violent crime. So the system failed me but more importantly the other victims that followed. One of whom I saw viciously attack a man with a bike chain in front of the man's wife and child.

    My answer would be this... invest in a greater and larger punishment system that can incorporate much more of the petty criminals. If the courts fail to convict then so be it. But those who are convicted should face punishment. Punishment of the criminal is victim support in itself. It offers a lot more peace of mind than counseling when the criminal is roaming free.

    --------------------

    I think you have hit the nail on the head with your comment. I thoroughly agree with you.

  • Comment number 97.

    93. At 4:34pm on 20 Jul 2010, Sat_Tyre wrote:
    91. At 4:27pm on 20 Jul 2010, John Sparks wrote:
    What the victims of crime want above all else is those who made them victims caught and jailed for a long time.

    Actually, studies show that most victims of crime have they following priorities:

    1) Why me?
    2) What's being done to stop it happening again?
    3) punishment and retribution come next
    ****************
    I must be at odds with most people then. Looking at this list, i would go for:
    1)punishment and retribution
    2)What's being done to stop it happening again?
    3)Why me?

  • Comment number 98.

    The Judicial system is out of joint as it does not serve the victims of crime, only how best to deal with the criminals, & that not effectively.

  • Comment number 99.

    46. At 1:32pm on 20 Jul 2010, Phosgene wrote:

    34. At 1:00pm on 20 Jul 2010, Sat_tire wrote:
    "I know someone who was glassed in a pub, the perpetrator tried to use Human rights legislation to stop the police seeing his hand that he cut in the process. Where is the right of the victim in that.
    The pendulum has swing so far the other way and no-one can anything about it, because of stupid human rights laws.
    If we used the simple principle you lose you human rights the moment you violate another persons human rights we would be making a start to turn this round."
    -----
    You overstate. The attempted use of human rights legislation to stop his hand being examined failed.

    Your last sentence is particularly stupid. This "simple principle" would mean you are entitled to rape people who accidentally run their car into yours.

    "Sat_tire" -- of a sort.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The Police had to go to court to fight the attempt to stop them photographing the hand. That cost us, the taxpayer money because it was brought under the human rights act and the defendant had legal aid. What was the problem, the Human rights act.

    The only thing that I can see that was stupid about my final paragraph was the reply. If you have a traffic accident this is not a violation of human rights, its a traffic accident, and if your response to being involved in a traffic accident was to try to rape someone, then its not a court of law you need to be in, but a secure mental unit. A traffic violation may lead to criminal charges if it was due to lack of care and attention. Someone who breaks into a house, commits an armed robbery or a rape etc are committing a criminal offence, and the law is supposed to deal with them from that starting point. This debate is about the fact it does not. It is quite clear that this is the sort of action that the human rights scuppers because the criminal has human rights.

    If someone breaks into your house and is armed and you defend yourself and in the process the burglar is killed. You have committed an offence, How is that fair when you where the victim defending yourself? If your house was not the target, you would never have reacted and "comitted an offence."

    If we follow your flawed logic then you could rape a traffic warden for ticketing your car if they did not not issue it correctly.

  • Comment number 100.

    98. At 5:07pm on 20 Jul 2010, ian cheese wrote:
    "The Judicial system is out of joint as it does not serve the victims of crime, only how best to deal with the criminals, & that not effectively."
    -----
    That is why it is called the *Criminal* Justice System.

    That is why it deals with bringing criminals to justice.

    Perhaps you should ask about creating a Victim Justice System?

 

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