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Your views on Question Time 17th June 2010

14:22 UK time, Thursday, 17 June 2010

Question Time, the BBC's premier political debate programme comes from Witney on Thursday 17th June.

The panel is Energy Secretary Chris Huhne, the shadow Welsh secretary Peter Hain, the DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson, William Hague's former press chief Amanda Platell and Baroness Helena Kennedy.

What are your thoughts about the programme and the panel? Let us know here on the Question Time debate page.

The debate has now closed. Thank you for your comments.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    Wow - the most right wing panel since Nuremburg!

  • Comment number 2.

    Even with 2 Labour and a Lib Dem?

  • Comment number 3.

    David Dimbleby "the audience picks the questions" what nonsense, the producers select them from written submissions, therefore the producers drive the programme to their agenda.

  • Comment number 4.

    The saville enquiry was focussed on the day in question and Para 1 comitted murder which was covered upbytory goverments for 38 years!! If you are going to give the DUP a seat on the panel why not a seat on the panel to the nationalists to hear both sides of the argument. perfectly law abiding nationalists marchjed on that day to protest fro civil rights something which the unionists and Donaldsons colleagues denied the average working class on the catholics !!
    Grow up Domaldson and get the chipof your shoulders!!

  • Comment number 5.

    Bloody sunday was a travesty for the civil rights movement, in that it was the very forces that were well received in the bogside riots as external and unbiased forces, which once again showed that the most eminent and respected rm of the british armed services was unable to differeniate from the troubles and instead precipitated the troubles beyond mid term control.

    let us remember though this was a period in history where few if any armed forces were even capable of checking there fire and in some cases atrocieties beyond our imagination as 'normalised' behaviour.

    let us please begin to leave some sttones unturned.

    bereavement is an overwhelming pool in Northern Ireland and its issues.

    let us consider the issues which allow us to move forward, but always provide a foundation for the next generation to move forward with.

    maybe not to be seen in the present but certainly, it must remain credible.

    closing ranks in any organisation i to be frowned up but if we do not know what shape or form paramilitary or intelligence organisations have then we must leave it to the declassification of information and the willingness to speak of old ills.

    this is no cure all treatment, for much of the time this would come too late for those most affected.

  • Comment number 6.

    Where is the spokesperson from the left? yet again another unbalanced panel.

  • Comment number 7.

    the enquiry has produced nothing but wealth for the legal profession, nothing that was not expected has come from this enquiry. The army were no more at fault than those that died on bloody Sunday. in my opinion a waste of money.

  • Comment number 8.

    What about Justice for the 37 British soldiers that were murdered by the IRA in the 4 months previous to Bloody Sunday?

  • Comment number 9.

    What alot of rubbish this forum is from the BBC. It says follow the programme online, yet as I write this the last comment passed by moderators was 18 mins ago. Hardly real time comment on the programme!

  • Comment number 10.

    Peter Hain should actually have made an apology rather than give lectures on the current decisions. The cuts are being made because he and his labour colleagues have misued our money and yet have the audacity to criticise.

  • Comment number 11.

    The lib-Dem spokesperson seems very embarassed trying to defend Tory policies

  • Comment number 12.

    Shocking chairing on the Sheffield question, Nick Clegg might be representing Sheffield Hallam but pretty clear that Labour needed to do something to hold Sheffield Central and more to retake Sheffield Council. If the loan was good then why would a bank not provide it. Hain does like to talk across everyone doesnt he.

  • Comment number 13.


    we do need the nucleur reactor panel employer in Sheffield

  • Comment number 14.

    Surely you should have had Newsnight in Derry tonight. How about next week? I guess not.

    A few months before Bloody sunday, 13 people were murdered by the same regiment. They left behind a collective 54 children. The British army cannot say they were a peace keeping force. The Cain research conducted by the University of Ulster shows hundreds of victims of state terrorism, whose deaths have never been investigated. Can you ask Jeffrey how many soldiers have gone to jail for the countless murders by state forces.

    Surely you should have had a Sinn Fein MP on tonight's show?

  • Comment number 15.

    Baroness Meacher (House Of Lords. Crossbench): "We in Britain spend ?19 billion or so on the criminal justice system responding to drugs and drug-related crime, most of it a consequence of the criminalisation of drug use." Well, there's 19 Billion that we could save right there whilst simultaneously allowing the police to go and catch real criminals. Now add that to the profits that could (should) be made from (to be conservative) only legalising Cannabis. In terms of the economy alone; substantially increased tax revenue, additional small to medium businesses, increased tourism and A boost to the GDP through the hemp industry. You don't need to be a mathematician to work out that it is in the national interest in terms of our economy, more significantly however, it also reflects well in terms of our society. The UK could ride the legalisation wave which is coming anyway!

  • Comment number 16.

    How disappointing that the BBC have representatives from the DUP , Daily Mail Tory supporters etc but NO ONE to represent the Nationalist side!!

    How appropriate !!

    Change the record !!

    And be impartial and less partisan !!

  • Comment number 17.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 18.

    If we learnt anything from the Tory Government of the 80's strangling public expenditure and letting the market rule will result in job losses.
    Todays announcement is small beer

  • Comment number 19.

    Let's have the drains up about all the killings in N Ireland. But don't let's forget the years of murders bu the RUC and all the other anti catholics in the province. It is not just McGuiness who has been accused of carrying a gun.

  • Comment number 20.

    And what is wrong with a right wing panel? Better than a namby pamby must not upset anyone, politically correct, left wing one!

  • Comment number 21.

    why does Dimbleby feel the need to make partisan interruptions against the Labour spokesman?

  • Comment number 22.


    the economy needs to be balanced.

    but the question is whether the active economy can provide a fruitful spring board for the those made redundant can reinvest in their own future?

    if more people begin to develop a wage focus to paying bills then we have the a serious issue developing where the only money to be invested will lie in the hands of the government to work with employers and the private investment sector.

    we have only a short period of time to act on this and the more time and money is wasted not acting and focused will bleed out money into political wells.

  • Comment number 23.

    There is going to be civil unrest in Britain starting January 2010, and at the fore front will be university students, unions and 66 year old men andn women who by then would have lost their pensions in the BP saga. Watch this space.

  • Comment number 24.

    Bloody Sunday was a travesty and the inquiry only said what we all know. However that £200m would have built a new hospital in Derry which had have been a far better legacy for the whole city and can I also point out to # 4 that rightly or wrongly that march was banned, so it was not a perfectly legal march.

  • Comment number 25.

    8. MyNewFlatCapIsBlueAndWhite

    I think you will find the RUC were charged with investigating that. If they failed then that is the fault of political policing. Some thing Sinn Fein has eradicated from Ireland!

  • Comment number 26.

    DisgustedinDERRY.....
    What about all the young soldiers tortured and killed by the IRA?

    The soldiers were trying to make NI safe, the IRA were killing their fellow Irishmen and women

  • Comment number 27.

    When are people going to get real. Can people not understand that this country has very urgently have to face the debt have. We are all going to have to take a hit but I hope the worst hit are those Married couples with 4 children, a car, a flatscreen TV, Playstations and a WI where neither of them has worked for over 13 years to my knowledge. And also the the man who has a mobility car despite having a job as an Agency Lorry driver! Am I bitter or am I right?

  • Comment number 28.

    7. RICADO

    Have you read the internationally recognised Saville report?

    The people were innocent and no threat to the gunmen. That is now a historical fact.

  • Comment number 29.

    Chris Hulme keeps comparing our economy with Greece what he seems to forget that this country owns significant amount of shares in the banks. What I would love to know is how much these shares are worth. As Peter Hain has just said that is a major reason for the high amount of debt.

  • Comment number 30.

    11. At 11:02pm on 17 Jun 2010, Alba wrote:

    The lib-Dem spokesperson seems very embarassed trying to defend Tory policies

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    I thought that as well

  • Comment number 31.

    If the soldiers are to be prosecuted, then all the terrorists not so far brought to court but known to have committed atrocities too, should also suffer the consequences of the same. Unless interested parties instruct lawyers to take out expensive private prosecutions against the surviving soldiers and possibly their bosses, it's simply not going to happen. The bigger picture is at stake here. And that bigger picture is huge. It is the tremendous progress which has been made by the former adversaries to commitment themselves to make a much improved peaceful political and social environment as currently exists to a great extent in N.I. today. Nothing, but nothing must be allowed to hinder that. I wish all the people in N.I. continued success in their efforts to create a peaceful, happy and liveable environment for all.

  • Comment number 32.

    , bertrand_ras-ale
    far be it from me to pick you up.....but Jan 2010 is past flower

  • Comment number 33.


    Deep sea oil drilling was always going to become a huge risk, but you would have thought they had sufficient technology to circumvent the rig in case of terminal and progressive failure.

    it really shouldn't be a matter of one or two saftey measures to catch the oil.

    they are inventing it as they go.

    forget about BP

    this is a real issue that will concern any country and environmentally focused economy for any country to consider just leaving the industries to self check their own saftey at the profit margin

  • Comment number 34.

    I relation to Bloody Sunday, in my view, a fundamental point is that state killing can never be allowed. To compare what the British Army did that day with the actions of criminals, terrorists or guerilla armies is ludicrous. A democratic society cannot tolerate or endorse state killing. State killing should not be used to argue the case for or against the so called 'hierarchy of victims'. For Jeffrey Donaldson & his Unionist colleagues to ignore this & try to focus the attention on the actions of the IRA does nothing but promote his/their sectarian credentials. Jeffrey & his colleagues have let the good Protestant people of NI down this last couple of days. Leadership was needed - as displayed by the Protestant church leaders yesterday in Derry when they met the families. Unfortunately leadership was not shown by the Unionist politicians, all we heard was the same old sectarian vitriol; it's very sad, very very sad

  • Comment number 35.

    Listening to the Lib Dem man on the panel shows just how much he has sold out his soul completely to Toryism. Should be ashamed of himself he is shouting loud over everybody and ..it's not working.

  • Comment number 36.

    If there is a commercial need for Sheffield Forgemasters to produce steel for new nuclear reactors, I am sure the 2 cash rich owners of BNF (EDF/Centrica) will be more than happy to lend them the £80m. If they won't, then why should the taxpayer?

  • Comment number 37.

    How can the pannelists possibly imply that this is the only time the British army have acted so disgracefuly?
    My paternal grandfather has a sewing machine with two bullet holes in after the British army fired indescriminately through his mothers window, thank god there was no-one sitting at it.
    My maternal great uncle was chased and tortured purely on suspicion of being involved in the IRA, he had no involvement whatsoever.
    Both lived on opposite sides of the country, the army is not as innocent as the so called professionals make them out to be, many sections of the army have been indesciminately brutal and sadistic on multiple occasions. This just happened to be the most publicised atrocity.

  • Comment number 38.

    Politicians do they ever answer the questions, it's about time we did stand up to the Americans, there is a rush to blame and BP is the scapegoat.

  • Comment number 39.

    DisgustedinDERRY..... the report said that the fact that some of the men/boys hadn't actually used the nail bombs/stones or whatever meant they were innocent..look at some of their records!

  • Comment number 40.

    American congressmen behaved with a "John Wayne" gungho attitude in a matter where there is as yet no investigation result. Posturing and Cameron should be standing against it

  • Comment number 41.


    the gentleman at the back is right

    for the future we are going to need a generation of oil riggers who care about the impact and are really thinking about it instead of the large profit margins to protect the multinationals, and their lawyers.

    were getting to the nut of the issue on this when we begin to assess tthe value of the roles within these organisations.

  • Comment number 42.

    This country's debt is horrendous and the Government must get to grips with it.
    Peter Hain's living in cloud cuckoo land, Gordon Brown had already started printing money, he sold off our gold cheaply and devalued the pound. The Labour Government hit the ordinary people of this country who have worked all their lives and saved for a rainy day. The Labour Government allowed the banks to drop our interest rates while paying large bonuses to the bankers.

  • Comment number 43.

    I grew up on the night that the IRA bombed Birmingham. I was 13 years old & babysitting for my 3 little sisters & stayed up longer than I should have done to watch the news. That night on TV, I saw bits of bodies - human beings - being shoveled into bags. I lost my (RC) faith that night, along with my innocence & those images have never left me. I grew up in Newcastle, a descendant of Irish Catholic immigrants who worked incredibly hard & sacrificed much to create a better future for all of us. I struggle with former IRA commanders being in power - particularly with their apparent need to hark back to the past & their extreme reluctance to admit to their part in murder, violence & continued criminal activity. All of us in the UK have paid a very high price for peace in NI & yet my very strong feeling is that we all have to find a way to move on. The Saville enquiry was a long time coming & cost a great deal of money but was essential to put the record straight for the 13 civil rights marchers who were murdered that day. I feel equally strongly that the British Army - and the thousands of civilians who were murdered during the "Troubles" - have been poorly served by British justice. More resources need to be put into the Historical enquiries team - but equally, a standard needs to be set for those in political power. McGuiness & Adams et al don't merit any airtime whatsoever to air any more of their twisted views & backward-looking policies. The people of NI deserve better.

  • Comment number 44.

    Why should we wait 5 years to vote on an unelected Government? Clearly seeing as the Lib Dems have sold out completely

  • Comment number 45.

    Seeing Labour politicians on the TV makes my skin creep. They lost the election so why can't they just accept it and go away. Who is the bloke with the fake tan anyway, Peter Hain ? What did he ever do for anyone ?

  • Comment number 46.

    26. Alba

    By shooting dead 13 in Ballymurphy and 14 in Derry, among hundreds of other killings that by the way were never investigated, they were making N'Ireland safe? That unfortunately was not the case, that is what you have been told was the case, which is a lie. I lived through it, did you?

  • Comment number 47.

    The question that hasn't been addressed in the BP saga is that the rig and the staff on that rig were American! I assume therefore that they were sub contractors and if they were, the only reason for BP to have to carry any financial cost is that they did not ensure the contract with this company did not have sufficient clauses in it that ensured the sub contractors had sufficient insurance against the events that actually transpired. If so BP have failed, If not then the American company should be paying all the costs backed up by there insurance.

  • Comment number 48.

    24. forwhatitisworth
    "that march was banned"

    Of course it was banned. Why would the British want people whom they were incarcerating because of their religion, march to protest against such incarcerations. What happened to the right to protest?

  • Comment number 49.

    Please tell the man in the audience, so full of his own importance and indignation, that Halliburton doesn't make, supply or manage blow out preventers.

    There's too much spouting off here, on both sides of the Atlantic, by peoople who don't know how the oil industry functions - including Chris Huhne.

  • Comment number 50.

    As the vast majority of people in N.Ireland are trying to move on,Jeffry Donaldson and his colleagues are determined to keep one foot in the past.Does he not realize that this enquiry was a part of the Good Friday Agreement?Perhaps the DUP or Jeffrys old party the Ulster Unionists should have pushed for justice for all at that point.

    Bloody Sunday was the single biggest recruitment drive ever for the IRA,the influence of this swell in ranks may never be told,and most probably extended the situation in NI by tens of years.

    Therefore this enquiry was essential and proper.

    Saville has spoken and we should move on,lesson learned with due respect to all victims and families.

  • Comment number 51.

    31. Vincent Allen
    "take out expensive private prosecutions"

    Derry is full of very wealthy business men who are anxious for justice.

    The soldiers can now be convicted for perjury which does not require civil action. The PPS must now convict.

    By the way, soldiers have probably served 50 years collectively for hundreds of killings. Republicans have served hundreds of thousands collectivley. Were is the parity there?

  • Comment number 52.

    Having lived in Greece for several years I find the repeated comparisons of the UK economy with Greece made by the coalition nothing short of a disgrace. Greece's government has systematically lied on the grand scale for more than a decade to hide the massive deficits it needed to prop up an economy which is corrupt from top to bottom. It is therefore no surprise that the bond markets are applying punitive rates of interest to Greece to mitigate the obvious risks incurred. To suggest that our economy is in any way comparable is therefore patently ridiculous. Worse, however, is that the coalition's obsession with putting us in the same stable as Greece is liable to do just that... after all, who is likely to want to invest in an economy the like of which the Coalition Government CLAIM to have inherited?

  • Comment number 53.

    39. Alba
    "the report said that the fact that some of the men/boys hadn't actually used the nail bombs/stones or whatever meant they were innocent"

    The report said all those killed were innocent and posed no threat. It went on to say that one of them PROBABLY had nail bombs but could not rule out that they were PLANTED by the British army to cover its story. Why don't you actually read the report before misquoting it?

  • Comment number 54.

    To disgusted in Derry post #46

    Yeah I did live through the IRA blowing up children, killing people at rememberence services, shooting people in front of their children, abducting people in the middle of the night - never to be seen again (even yet), targeting Catholics in the police, shooting builders as legitimate targets because they had done some work in a Police Station, my local fish and chip shop being blown up twice, the extortion money, the billions of ponds of needless damage, shooting people in the back, then all the pleading about it is a war.

    Well if it was a war then Britain should have said so and shot all those "political" prisoners caught in civilian clothing as spies - as per the Geneva Convention.

    However, I know that there were wrongs on both sides, the Army and the Police had moments not to be proud of, neither did so called Loyalists nor Republicans. The difference is that I think and believe NI has moved on, but until people like you on both sides do - the country can't!

  • Comment number 55.

    i hope the members of the lib-dems make the most of the lib-con alliance, because no one will ever vote for the lib-dem party again!

  • Comment number 56.

    I wanted to respond to Tony Kynes comments made about me. Firstly, I am not anonymous - I have given my name & my location unlike 99% of people on this site. Most people hide their gender,name and area. I do not. Your opening comments were quite insulting, for no reason other than the obvious. You may think you know me because of where I live but, quite frankly, you don't know me at all.

    A quick history lesson on the middle east might help. The area known as the holy land has never been a sovereign state since roman times (until, that is, 1948 and the foundation of the State of Isreal) Prior to that it has been occupied by various itinerant groups. Prior to 1918 it was part of the Ottoman Empire (Turkish) owned by absentee landlords & lived in by travellers mainly from the Balkan area. In 1914, Turkey sided with the Germans and, as a result, lost its foreign territories including the holy land (it was NEVER called Palestine!) It became a British mandated territory.In the 1920's the British Foreign Secretary (Balfour) declared that the British Government would look favourably on the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the holy land. During this time, large parcels of land were bought (not stolen, grabbed, snatched or otherwise appropriated) by Jewish philanthropists eager to follow Balfours declaration. The working peasants stayed & were well paid to farm the land. In 1948, after the UN voted for the establishent of the State of Israel, the Israeli government pleaded with Arabs living there to stay and build a homeland for both Arab & Jew. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (a close friend of Hitler - so we know where he's coming from!) told the Arabs to get out because the Arab League would sweep into the new State & drive the Jews into the sea. They left and never came back. The itinerant travellers occupying the land as tenant farmers of absentee Turkish landlords were offered, for the first time, a land of their own to be shared with the Jews of Israel. They scorned the offer. Since then they have lived in "refugee camps". Why? Why won't their Arab brothers offer them a home? Because no-one wants them - only Israel gives them aid and even guns for the Palestinian Authority (PA). Why is the West Bank now so peaceful? It is run by the PA which is co-existing with Israel. There is peace & prosperity in the West Bank. Gaza is run by Hamas (a terrorist organisation whose sole aim is to destroy Israel). It doesn't care about the Gazan's. If Gaza made peace with Israel and accepted their right to exist there would be peace in the middle east by this time next week!! Try it, you might like it. MICHAEL OF COCKFOSTERS (hope that's not too anonymous for you!!)

  • Comment number 57.

    Again to Derry, this time post #48

    I said in my post the March was banned, rightly/wrongly. In my view wrongly, but the fact is under the law at the time it was banned. So those taking part were not entirely innocent - they were breaking the law.

    Did any deserve to be shot - NO - though questions remain about the one the Saville inquiry (which you say is internationally recognised as the truth) says had nail bombs in his pocket. Suppose there was a good peaceful reason for having nail bombs?

    As I said in an earlier post, wrongs were done on BOTH sides over those years, but until people on BOTH sides can admit that, NI is stuck in the past; held to randsom by a tiny minority on both sides.

  • Comment number 58.

    I wanted to express my views on why that ,in regards to past murders in N.IRELAND due to the Troubles, this latest inquiry should be the last expensive one of its kind.

    The reason that bloody Sunday appalled the World was not only that people on a rights march were killed. but that they were killed by an Army sent, we were told, to protect mainly the Catholic community from the loyalist majority .

    The other thought I have is this

    If the same police force used the same limited information, and in very similar circumstances;IE a 12th July parade were there would also have been similar splinter groups , who also would be intent on venting their anger using violence in similar marching restrictions as in Derry.

    I wondered if you agreed with me that regardless of which side of the barricades that this atrocity happened, it was responsible for a lot of subsequent hatred and mistrust. And this inquiry had to happen.

    Hopefully now my Homeland's troubled past will remain in the past.

    P - is for people all colors and creeds
    E - is for everyone helping each other with their needs
    A - always be ready to help and under stand
    C - Christians learning to live together in this troubled land and
    E - is for equality on Earth as Above -cause the Lord in his wisdom gives all his equal love.

  • Comment number 59.

    Saville took 38 years to unravel Bloody Sunday.
    But has the mindset of the British army changed in 38 years? I doubt it.
    If it had changed we would not have Iraq prison torture and murders today for example. Goodness knows how many other Bloody Sundays have taken place in far off places away from the medias eye and covered up by unchallenged official military obfuscation.

  • Comment number 60.

    51. At 11:42pm on 17 Jun 2010, DisgustedinDERRY wrote:

    "Derry is full of very wealthy business men who are anxious for justice.
    "

    So we'll expect them to stump up some of the £200m will we? Think not!

    Derry businessmen want to get on with making a living, unlike some....



  • Comment number 61.

    #54

    i have no grounds to say this but hear hear

  • Comment number 62.

    We need to move on - it's that simple. If we want to live in the past & continue to perpetuate old arguments,we will prevent ourselves from repairing our wounds & reaching our potential as people & as a nation. If we can draw a line & move on, I suspect that the likes of McGuiness & Adams will not have a sniff of power in 10 years. Give peace a chance - believe in decent people!

  • Comment number 63.

    Chris Huhne keeps saying that interest will have to rise if we do not cut.

    Bring it on! Savers have suffered enough to pay for the reckless. The reckless who were prepared to pay the earth for a house, pricing out their own children from the housing market in the process.

  • Comment number 64.

    54. forwhatitisworth
    "NI has moved on"

    It has moved on. Its citizens are no longer discriminated against.

    It has moved on, there are less murders and bombs.

    It has moved on. As of yesterday, the British army has been equated to loyalist and republican combatants.

    The British army need now to own up to its terrorist atrocities which did happen.

    All atrocities are wrong and should not happen.

  • Comment number 65.

    It is about time all sides acceted the whole Saville report and stopped cherry picking parts they like. It is either all true or it isn't. So

    The parachute regiment killed people with no justification
    Those killed were not an immediate threat and were mainly innocent
    The army should have not been ordered in
    Martin Maginuss probably was there with a machine gun
    1 of those killed had nail bombs in his pockets
    There was no coverup

    Accept it all and move on, if you claim some is inaccurate then you must accept that other bits of it could be incorrect too.

  • Comment number 66.

    56. Michael of Cockfosters
    "British mandated territory"

    Did they hold an election?

  • Comment number 67.

    57. forwhatitisworth
    "though questions remain about the one the Saville inquiry (which you say is internationally recognised as the truth) says had nail bombs in his pocket. Suppose there was a good peaceful reason for having nail bombs?"

    The report said all those killed were innocent and posed no threat. It went on to say that one of them PROBABLY had nail bombs but could not rule out that they were PLANTED by the British army to cover its story. Why don't you actually read the report before misquoting it?

  • Comment number 68.

    60. forwhatitisworth
    "So we'll expect them to stump up some of the £200m will we?"

    The soldiers can now be convicted for perjury which does not require civil action. The PPS must now convict.

    By the way, soldiers and RUC personell have probably served 50 years collectively for hundreds of killings. Republicans and loyalists have served hundreds of thousands collectivley. Were is the parity there?

    Terrorism is terrorism is it not?

  • Comment number 69.

    Perhaps some of you will remember the words of a former commander of 1 Para;

    "I have to ask what about Bloody Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and every other day of the week? What about Bloody Omagh? What about Bloody Warrenpoint, Enniskillen, Hyde Park, or Bloody Aldershot and Brighton – bloody everything the IRA have ever touched."

    Says it all really...
    Jane.x

  • Comment number 70.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 71.

    64. At 00:42am on 18 Jun 2010, DisgustedinDERRY wrote:

    54. forwhatitisworth
    "NI has moved on"

    It has moved on. Its citizens are no longer discriminated against.

    It has moved on, there are less murders and bombs.

    It has moved on. As of yesterday, the British army has been equated to loyalist and republican combatants.

    The British army need now to own up to its terrorist atrocities which did happen.

    All atrocities are wrong and should not happen.


    If I may take your points in turn.

    No they are no longer discriminated against and they never should have been. The civil rights protests were noble and to be applauded . Yes RC minority were discriminated against in the 70's and that was wrong! However by th e80's that had been corrected, yet the IRA carried on with a indiscriminate bombing campaign. (Enniskillen 1987, Warrington 1993, Manchester 1996, Omagh 1998 (loosely PIRA))

    There are certainly less murders and bombs, because the PIRA has stopped. In the total conflict over 3000 killings are attritubed to the republicans with less than 114 (being very generous) to the RUC/Army.

    Yesterday 13 of the 250,000 soldiers who served in NI were deemed to have done wrong. Hardly equates them to few thousand people in terrorist groups (on both sides) who committed over 3000 murders

    The British Army has now owned up and apologised for one of its attrocities. The British PM, leader of teh opposition, head of the army have all said sorry. Now we need the PIRA to own up and say sorry - so far they have only expressed regret for the loss of life. Hardly the same thing.

    Finally we agree, all attrocities are wrong!

  • Comment number 72.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 73.

    #68

    They might be TRIED for perjury. Nice to see you have them convicted all ready.

    An inquiry is very different level of proof to a criminal conviction. What happens if the soldiers are tried and acquitted. Surely that would mean they would have to be accepted as being innocent, which ny implication would mean the Savill inquiry findings were incorrect.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think that but I do think that would be the outcome of a crimal trial - then what happens?

  • Comment number 74.

    It does make me laugh when people say that Labour will be good at this and ConLib will be good at the that. The leaders of these parties all answer to the same master, let me give you a glue. Herman Van Rompuy = Bilderberg, David Cameron = Bilderberg, Nick Clegg = Bilderberg. The reason why they keep saying the UK is heading for a long period of spending reduction is to balance the economic wealth of the EU member states. Stop believing these idiots and do your own research, and don't trust the BBC (Brussels Broadcasting Corporation) as a neutral source. If you want to see the proposed future for the UK that the political elite don't want you to see look for 'EU communism'.

  • Comment number 75.

    70. SystemF
    "If you start a terrorist war, you must and will suffer the consequences"

    Is that why 'your boys' are coming home in boxes from Iraq?

    Are the deaths of British soldiers in Iraq justified; you shoot them, they shoot you boo hoo?

  • Comment number 76.

    73. forwhatitisworth
    "An inquiry is very different level of proof to a criminal conviction"

    Some soldiers lied at two inquiries, the Widgery and Saville inquiries. This has been found to be the truth by an international inquiry.

    The soldiers were told of this yet they still lied. This has been found to be the truth by an international inquiry.

    They have perjured themselves and this is a crime which can have up to a seven year sentence.

    Time now for convictions!!!

  • Comment number 77.

    forwhatitisworth

    I note your failure to respond to your nail bomb fallacy.

    I am confused as to how your, it would seem, rule of law and order stance, works when you don't favour killers going on trial?

    Just in case you think that Bloody Sunday is only one of a few state murders, have a look at this report compiled by the University of Ulster. I guess that small number of soldiers very a very busy bunch of boys indeed.

    Enjoy the reading!!!


  • Comment number 78.

    70. At 01:12am on 18 Jun 2010, SystemF wrote:

    "It's time for the Irish to apologise. In fact, it's time they apologised for welcoming in the Nazis to live and work in Ireland.
    I think my views through this thread are obvious, but I must correct your post as it is grossly unfair."

    "..the violence inherent in their culture, the abuse of children which is rampant in Ireland.."

    Firstly it is most untrue that Ireland welcomed Nazis. Yes the ROI remained neutal in WWII but since it has been acknowledged that it allowed RAF flights over its territory, returned stranded troops to England, all of which beached its Neutrality.

    Most importantly hundreds of thousands of citizens from the Republic of Ireland crossed into N Ireland so they could sign up to fight the Nazi's and did so with pride and honour. As a percentage more people volunterred from teh island of Ireland than anywhere else in the Empire.

    I may disagree with the actions on the Official/Provisional IRA but no one should underestimate Ireland's contribution to WW2. Anyone who does, simply does not know their history.

    As for child abuse, I think anyone who has any knowledge of world affairs know that is not a specific Irish issue an ineed if they did some ressearch they would see that equality laws were implemented in NI years before the rest of the UK.

  • Comment number 79.

    soldiers responsible for murdering innocent civil rights marchers in Derry should at least be named and shamed. After all they have had thirty-eight years to enjoy life something they denied their victims. There should be no hiding place for these men who sullied the name of soldiers everywhere.

  • Comment number 80.

    #76

    I take it you are a Sinn Feinn politician - if you aren't you should be.

    I have done nothing but try to offer a balanced 2 sided view, yet all you do is ignore the points and repeat your mantra, ignore the question and go over the same guff. A politician if I have ever seen one!

    To prove perjury you will need to prove that the soldiers are guilty. (if you can't prove they were quilty you can't prove they lied) You cannot take their testimony into account(exemped from self incrimin ation). So after 38 years your chances of securing a convicition are slim/nill.

    My question to you is that if they were prosecuted and found innocent, would you accept it?

    No? So another appeal?
    Another £200m

    Where does it stop

    They did wrong Both sides did wrong! Move on and build a country!

  • Comment number 81.

    Interesting that any comment quetioning the BBC or the moderators doesn't get posted.

    My tax payers money at work?

  • Comment number 82.

    Post #81

    Posted by me and third time I attemped to post something similiar.

    Interesting that it only gets passed when comments to the thread have dried up and no one is following it anyone.

    Unbiased BBC - yea right.

    Blocked by very nice BBC Staff! I would have said mod... but that is automatically blocked by the censors

  • Comment number 83.

    I love the way the unbias BBC, posts my comments when no one is here to comment or argue their case. Public Broadcasting/censorship at its best. Pathetic

  • Comment number 84.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 85.

    I think the reason no Republican spokesperson was on the panel, could be that Dimbleby, a pal of Prince Charles, who is Colonel-in-Chief of The Parachute Regiment, its about time this clique, were replaced by people more reprehensive of the wider British population. But don’t hold your breath

 

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