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Open post: Thursday, 10 September 2009

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Paul Murphy Paul Murphy | 17:36 UK time, Thursday, 10 September 2009

It's that time again where we throw open the doors and invite your feedback, comments and questions on BBC Online, BBC iPlayer, BBC HD, and the BBC's digital and mobile services.

Having said that we already have two lively posts covering BBC HD so I'd like to keep comments on HD picture quality over at Andy's post BBC HD: Picture Quality and Dolby Research (601 comments and counting - I'm not sure what happens when we hit four figures) and comments on the HD schedule on Danielle's post BBC HD: Autumn Schedule
.
And finally, I'd like to hear about subjects you think we should be covering, should cover more or shouldn't be covering at all.


Paul Murphy is the Editor of the Internet Blog.

Comments

Page 1 of 2

  • Comment number 1.

    Hello. I was wondering if/when there'll be RSS feeds for the /programmes data. I'd like to be able to subscribe to a programme's upcoming episodes data in Google Reader, so that I can't miss a new episode/series (I'm forever missing stuff on Radio 4 simply because a new series has started and I didn't realise). Or is there already a way to do this I'm not clever enough to realise? Thanks.

  • Comment number 2.

    Does this mean we can remind you how unnecessary DOGs are again in the knowledge you will resoundingly ignore us?

  • Comment number 3.

    Similar request to Paul-Taylor's, how about email alerts when a new episode is added to iPlayer? Or how about about a new system where you can login to iPlayer with your own account, subscribe to specific shows, then be alerted of new episodes when you login.

  • Comment number 4.

    Paul, four requests:

    Can some from online please sort out The News Editors URLs (right hand menu) and their descriptive text, Mardell is still the Europe editor and Webb is still the America editor...

    I'll add my voice to those who politely ask the BBC to stop using DOGs, they really are unnecessary for the average viewer, those who do not know what channel they are watching can find out via their receivers EPG, if they can't manage than they are probably pass either caring or needing to know!

    Can the online TV guides please set a session cookie to remember the date currently selected, so if someone is planing their viewing in advance and switches between channels the cookie remembers that they are looking at (for example) Saturday the 12th rather than throwing the user back to the current date of the 10th - if you see what I mean?

    Last, but not least, is there any chance of the BBC actually bothering to reply (in detail and without the 'spin') to the Two Thousand plus comments from disgruntled online users who have been adversely affected one way or another by the BBC's decision to use IP Geo-location sniffing and have been moved to post to the various blogs (such as here) on the issue. I, like many I suspect, have given up hoping that the BBC might reverse it's (misguided) decision but we should at least be told the full and unabridged reasons for the decision - after all it is "Our BBC" and we do fund the BBC in it's "Unique" way...

  • Comment number 5.

    #1

    "(I'm forever missing stuff on Radio 4 simply because a new series has started and I didn't realise). Or is there already a way to do this I'm not clever enough to realise?"

    I find this URL quite useful... ;-)

  • Comment number 6.

    Can we please have the ability to store the BBC Homepage and it's personalisation as a URL so that when it screws up the cookies, or the viewers browser screws up then things can be restored to as was without having to remove cookies and re-personalise? It's so frustrating especially as my personalisation was lost tonight and it will not reset.

  • Comment number 7.

    Ab, for requests.
    Hi. I might well be knocking at the wrong door but I am frustrated in my search for the Beijing Olympics highlights released by the BBC a year ago. Is there any way I can find some? Shouldn't the BBC be providing a way to get one's hands on those videos again? Mea Culpa if this blog happens not to be where I should be posting such comment.. If so, please do tell me where I am supposed to post.

  • Comment number 8.

    I want to start by commenting that I love what the BBC have done with iPlayer. The wide range of platform support is great. I have one request: can we please have full HD videos (1920x1080) rather than reduced HD (1920x720)?

    A couple of questions/comments:

    1. Why isn't there more HD content on iPlayer to match what is broadcast? For example, Harper's Island is being broadcast on BBC HD but isn't available to view on iPlayer. I have asked this by email and got a reply but I wanted to make this a general question and not necessarily specific to this one programme.

    2. When problems are spotted, they don't always get resolved. For example, there was an episode of Coast recently that appeared on iPlayer that should have been HD and, indeed, was encoded at 1920x720 but I'm pretty sure it was an SD source instead of the HD source. The DOG was WAY too big and also in the wrong place. The picture quality was not as good. I reported this and got confirmation back but no action was taken.

    Thank you again for providing iPlayer.

  • Comment number 9.

    What's going on with homepage customisation? I've lost all my customisations since yesterday and when I try to re-implement them, they don't save, i.e. remove "Sports" and the widget comes back after re-load. This is with cookies enabled.

    So, two things: (1) how do I fix the specific problem, (2) when is the much-promised "identity" coming along to remove the reliance on cookies for personalisation?

  • Comment number 10.

    Could we have some kind of update on the iPlayer message board software? It's appears to have switched to the identity beta for signing in - but that's broken single sign on to the other boards and is riddled with bugs that make the board nearly unusuable.

    Possibly a piece that explains why the decision was made to move *that board in particular* to the beta, and why it wasn't abandoned when it become apparent it didn't work yet?

    Heck, a piece on why anyone feels that it's a good idea for that board to run on DNA at all would be good. If you're going to abandon single sign on for one board you lose any advantage of using DNA, so you could move to a nice message board platform with a search facility like Invision or phpBB...

    Phazer

  • Comment number 11.

    # 2 CompactDistance:
    "Does this mean we can remind you how unnecessary DOGs are again in the knowledge you will resoundingly ignore us?"

    Danielle has never ignored people's issues around DOGs on BBC HD. She did change the use of them on the channel in direct response to comments as you can read in this post BBC HD: DOGs update. She also explained why DOGs couldn't be removed completely in the same post.

  • Comment number 12.

    How about embracing Web 2.0 a bit more in iPlayer, e.g. adding ratings to the programs and allowing the video to be embedded elsewhere?

  • Comment number 13.

    The expansion of iPlayer to other platforms is greatly appreciated, particularly the PS3 as it's so much more convenient to have it on the TV in the lounge.

    However for the many of us who are bandwidth-challenged, streaming just doesn't hold up. Any plans for download services for other platforms? The PS3 would be the best one for this from my perspective too, especially as you've a nice shiny iPlayer icon there already :)

  • Comment number 14.

    #11

    "Danielle has never ignored people's issues around DOGs on BBC HD. She did change the use of them on the channel in direct response to comments as you can read in this post BBC HD: DOGs update. She also explained why DOGs couldn't be removed completely in the same post."

    [from the above cited blog] - "I also said - as I'm sure many of you have heard before - that there are reasons why the vast majority of digital channels put DOGs on screen - they help to tell you where you are as you flick through channels and play an important role for channels in helping to establish their brands through the content they go alongside."

    That is plain daft, are the BBC really implying that the majority of the audience can't use the EPG etc. to work out what channel they are watching?!

    Perhaps if the BBC took the lead on removing these unnecessary DOGs from their channels the rest of the industry might follow...

  • Comment number 15.

    Radio 5Live is the only national BBC radio station without a dedicated messageboard for listeners to talk about the stations output. The new 5Live website has recently launched - but this facility was not introduced.

    Why is it that 5Live listeners are deprived of a messageboard to provide feedback (positive as well as negative)? A blog does not provide sufficient freedom for this!

  • Comment number 16.

    Still the BBC homepage is broken, and still no announcement about it! >:(

  • Comment number 17.

    Hi,

    Is there any chance of a kept-up-to-date, detailed listing of the iPlayer usage stats, including number of downloads/viewings for, say, the top 50 shows over the last week/month/year?

    K

  • Comment number 18.

    This is probably the wrong place to post this question and I apologise for that - but I'd like to know why trailers on the site are locked to international viewers?
    For example, the Doctor Who site - trying to get up to date information on the show only to be blocked because i'm not in the UK. The show is broadcast internationally - yet the offical site seems to only allow those in the UK to view the content.
    This seems more than a little strange to me, I always thought the idea of a trailer was to tease the audience into watching the production. Given the show is broadcast internationally - why can't those of us not in the UK view this content?

    I hope someone can shed some light on this for me - I would be extremely grateful for any feedback on it.

  • Comment number 19.

    Oh and on a more negative note, in the "how not to do it" category, refer to all the comments on the four Changes to International Pages postings.

    Not exactly covered by this remit perhaps, but there's an overlap and lessons to be learnt across the board for future changes - not just the approach that was wrong, but the way it was handled.

  • Comment number 20.

    @BoilerPlated (#4)

    Sorry missed your comment about the same thing I mentioned in #19. I concur!

  • Comment number 21.

    Make the links in this blog more obvious. Even the ones in bold are difficult to pick out from the rest of the text. #023F6D and #424242 are waaaaay too similar.

    Pretty poor UX I'm afraid and I'm surprised a company of the size of the BBC isn't a little tighter on this sort of thing. It's a 2 minute CSS change, surely.

  • Comment number 22.

    Ah, an open post. Lovely. Can I politely ask what happened to the post telling us a bit about what happened in the h2g2 MOT? We were promised news in the post with the couple of introductory slides, but none came.

    I know things are quite busy, and that Sam at h2g2 is especially snowed under, but it seems a shame to get such great feedback from the community, promise them some commentary on the MOT process and then go and hide in a cupboard.

    No pressure, but it'd be good to know what's actually going to be happening regarding the appearance or otherwise of the promised post.

    :)

  • Comment number 23.

    Whoami? - if this is the post you are referring to it does tell you what happened in the MOT for h2g2.

    Perhaps you missed this comment from me about what happens next.

    I expect to say something on h2g2 itself next week.

  • Comment number 24.

    # 6 ChrisCornwall, # 9 lleyam and # 16 Moz:

    Just been speaking to the homepage team and some new code on the homepage broke things, it's been rolled back and is now fixed. Apologies all round.

    # 9 lleyam asked:
    "when is the much-promised "identity" coming along to remove the reliance on cookies for personalisation?"

    I'm expecting a post on the new identity system in three weeks time that'll tell you how, why and when. Probably where too.

  • Comment number 25.

    Is it just no news or am I being politely ignored Paul?! ;-)

    Oh, and on the subject of "Smiley's", can BBC Online please confirm that it will never bow to any pressure to to convert perfectly good ASCII art into miniature .gif images?...

  • Comment number 26.

    #24 - Not quite fixed ... I started to restore, now elements wont move on the page - at least I have some of my content back now - INCLUDING THIS BLOG!

  • Comment number 27.

    Apologies for my confusion, Nick. I read this bit:

    "Ed's note: Nick Reynolds is away on holiday at the moment but will be back in a week or so and will let us know more about future plans for h2g2. (PM)"

    I took this bit to mean that the h2g2: An Update post wasn't the full-fat version of what we'd see from the MOT meeting, and that another post would be coming in due course, and waited for it. I hadn't seen your comment.

    So yes, missing your comment is exactly what I did. I shall look forward to seeing what you have to say on the site itself in due course. I, for one, am excited at the prospects for h2g2 and see this sudden burst of activity surrounding the site's future as a positive thing.

    I'm not trying to be a pain in the behind - I honestly thought we'd all been short-changed but it was all a misunderstanding!

  • Comment number 28.

    What happened to the choice of audio stream on Mastercam and in general on split screen presentations like Mastercam can there be a choice to turn off the 'commentary'etc stream and leave us with the programmes actual audio.and with the and the video streams.

    What is the state of play on radiovision which was supposed to be going to the Trust. and of its cousin tv concerts only broadcast on the web.

  • Comment number 29.

    Although the BBC has said that it'll be fixing iPlayer on the Nintendo Wii 'later in the year' can you not be more specific? Someone on the message boards got an e-mail from Opera saying that it was 30 minute fix at the most.

  • Comment number 30.

    Given the enormous sucess of the iPhone, could you please advise when (or if) we will be able to download programmes on the iPhone and iPod Touch?

  • Comment number 31.

    1. Please sort out the moderators of "have your say" who behave more like thought police than moderators. At least introduce an appeal process or make the moderator state a reason for not publishing and the moderators name or number or something so we can police the moderators

    2. Please introduce threading on HYS fora so we can at least reply to comments and have some kind of debate

    3. A complete news archive with calendar - so we can click on a day and bring up all the news stories from that day - currnely stories seem to disappear down the memory hole

    4. Are you going to un-disappear comments made to the HYS system crash of a few months ago?

  • Comment number 32.

    Hello Paul, I was wondering if there had been any progress on this exercise by TomV?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbpointsofview/F2131439?thread=6111758&skip=0&show=20

  • Comment number 33.

    # 32 Nippie Sweetie:
    I'll ask Tom on Monday

    # 25 Boilerplated:
    Not ignoring your comments, will get back to you next week. For myself I'm a big fan of the ascii and I haven't heard any talk of changing it.

    Other comments not being ignored - just checked in to see what was happening - Nick and me will get back to answering them next week. Have a good weekend all,
    :-)
    Paul


  • Comment number 34.

    Paul, a problem that is reoccurring on older reactively moderated blogs is the problem of URL spammers creating an account and then posting non discript comments and their URLs to these older blogs, obviously in the hope that no one will pick up on them and that they will (for them, hopefully) build a links-farm to boost their search engine ratings. Obviously you will not go into details as to what ant-spam measures you already take but what ever4 they are they don't seem to be working - perhaps all new accounts have to be pre-moderated for a certain length of time, this would also discourage current users from opening second accounts in an attempt to agree with themselves or 'bait' someone who they disagree with, as happened to me recently (posts now removed)...

  • Comment number 35.

    Oh and one other thing, can there be a "Refer Account" for moderation option [1], this would greatly ease the problem of reporting the issues raised in my comments @ #34.

    [1] if there already is this option it's not very well signposted...

  • Comment number 36.

    I'd like to hear more on the future of iPlayer (both for catch-up and for live viewing) at the TV, as opposed to at the computer.

    With so many consoles, set-top boxes, network devices and HTPCs being connected to the TV by the sofa, etc, what moves are being (or should be) made to ensure that the official iPlayer method of viewing is the one being used by people who don't want to watch TV at the computer desk?

  • Comment number 37.

    #36. At 10:34am on 13 Sep 2009, TiggsPanther wrote:

    "I'd like to hear more on the future of iPlayer (both for catch-up and for live viewing) at the TV, as opposed to at the computer."

    'Live viewing' on the TV, why would that be required? By definition, surely, one would be able to watch the broadcast (opposed to the streamed 'narrowcast'), I can only think of three possible reasons, the first is were the broadcast would be were the viewer is 'out of region' for the DVB-T service being viewed, non availability of the DVB-T service or issues surrounding the TVL...

    Also, doesn't the BBC iPlayer allow it's output via video and sound out ports?

    I'm not knocking TV's equipped with IP ports, I can see that they will be of great use in distributing digital content around the house, just doubting the concept of using the technology for otherwise live broadcasts that could/can be received using a far better transmission medium.

  • Comment number 38.

    "...there are reasons why the vast majority of digital channels put DOGs on screen - they help to tell you where you are as you flick through channels and play an important role for channels in helping to establish their brands through the content they go alongside."

    The first reason is moot, surely? You can tell where you are "as you flick through channels" by keeping an eye on the EPG banner. And it's far more reactive, when flicking, than the DOG. If I then want to be reminded of the channel I am watching I can hit the "i" button, same as if I want to know when the current programme finishes, or what's on next. DOGs are daft. :)

    M.

  • Comment number 39.

    # 34 Boilerplated:

    You're right about the increase in comment spam. Last week we turned on pre-mod for new users on comments. It's annoying for genuine new users and annoying for those following a thread in real-time but probably better than a deluge of comment spam.

  • Comment number 40.

    @37

    For me, personally, I live in an area with (really, really) awful reception. I mean so bad that even analogue struggles. But, with my broadband, I can stream the "watch live", though. But not at my TV...
    And I'm sure I'm not the only person with good broadband but ropey OTA reception.

    And before anyone suggests them:
    - Satellite and Cable not an option. (I wish they were, but that's not going to change any time soon...)
    - I'm not convinced a new aerial would help that much, it's so bad here. Parts and labour for a non-guaranteed improvement is money better spent elsewhere.

    The other reason, although less "live" would be HD. Home broadband bandwidth may not be up to live HD streaming, but the ability to iPlayer shows in HiDef to watch the same/next day *at the actual TV* would be rather nice.

    And, yes, in a way you could cite "issues surrounding the TV License" - just not the ones you think. I'd actually like to get some use out of it...
    In my case, i'd like to be able to watch TV in nice un-fuzzy quality that's acutally worth the license I pay for it. I can't do anything about it at the moment, but I can stream live. Or download after. But alas, I have a 360...

  • Comment number 41.

    #1

    "(I'm forever missing stuff on Radio 4 simply because a new series has started and I didn't realise). Or is there already a way to do this I'm not clever enough to realise?"

    There isn't, as far as I can see, an RSS feed for /programmes but you can subscribe to the RSS feed for the iPlayer. Now the downside is that only programmes which are on the iPlayer are listed. Anything that is marked as "Not Available" is not shown.

    Now if you are so inclined you could feed the channel feed through Yahoo Pipes and filter out all programmes except those you are interested in.

    The feeds can be found here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/feeds/

  • Comment number 42.

    #40. At 3:35pm on 13 Sep 2009, TiggsPanther wrote:

    "And, yes, in a way you could cite "issues surrounding the TV License" - just not the ones you think. I'd actually like to get some use out of it..."

    Whilst myself and most people would sympathise with your predicament I doubt that the BBC will really want to do anything that would allow for the miss use of the iPalyer and it's content (the right to watch or the rights to 'broadcast' such content), if you read your TVL you will see that there is no right to have perfect or even indifferent reception, the licence is to allow the use of reception equipment and not to receive...

    The way forward is probably to link, in some some form, a "log-in" script on the iPlayer platform/server to the TVLA database but whilst I'm sure that any such system - whilst technically possible - would have many legal issues with regards data protection etc.

  • Comment number 43.

    Iplayer is great now on the Playstation 3, what would make it even better is to have HD programmes available and the ability to download

  • Comment number 44.

    If I may I'd like to raise strategic planning issues of BBC HD (and iPlayer) rather than pq or schedule stuff. The get raised again and again by various people without any answers ever given.

    1) When is the BBC going to launch additional HD channels.
    2) What is the timetable for the construction of other studios to be kitted out with HD? There is a general lack of information about this in blogs and stuff. I think it would be much better and you'd get a lot less aggro and questions if more detail was gone into on these sorts of things.
    3) What is the timescale for project canvas?
    4) Freeview HD. You need to actually write a definitive post about all the cloak and dagger goings on you yourself highlighted PaulMurphy.

    Other issues. More comments than questions.
    5) BBC Archive. The trial of this was so promising, it made it sound like it'd be the best thing invented ever. The fully deployed thing is a complete mess, it's a hodgepodge of very basic historical curiosities, worse than what was on the trial. Are there plans to ever expand this?
    6). The tv channel BBC Alba. When this launched it got little fuss, but I don't see why the BBC should be wasting vast amounts of money (and bandwidth) on this channel. It seems totally ridiculous given that BBC Three and Four still run limited hours.

    iPlayer HD. Great addition. Also series stack, again good idea. Hopefully these gains can be built on with canvas.

  • Comment number 45.

    I would like to know why some questions go unanswered. I would also like to know how much it costs the BBC to release a BBC HD production on Blu-ray and how many sales are needed to profit.

    Also, Andy Quested said that he had just been for an EBU meeting. Did the meeting include discussions of which Blu-ray titles to release and if so can you give us details please? Also if a broadcaster paid (using money paid for by the license fee payers) over 9 million annually to be part of the EBU and an additional sum of over £200,000 to be part of the ESC contest, and are a founding member of the EBU, why would they not have any say in which EBU productions get released on Blu-ray and when?

  • Comment number 46.

    Also, last year, the BBC was part of a demonstration of Super Hi-Vision
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/09/super_hi_vision.html

    Are there any updates on this or what future broadcasts, recordings or demonstrations will be done using it?

    Also in a previous blog in a reply to one of my comments where I said "I would also like the BBC blog to cover some of the things in the BBC's research white paper on High Frame Rate television:
    http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP169.pdf

    And to give us estimates of when we might get broadcasts of high frame rate television (ie. >=100fps)", you said that it was a good idea for a blog and that you would be looking for someone to write it. Has there been any udates on this - ie. will there be a BBC blog on high frame rate TV and it's advantages over current TV soon?

  • Comment number 47.

    #45. At 00:00am on 14 Sep 2009, HD1080 wrote:

    "I would like to know why some questions go unanswered."

    Because someone's 'pet' hobby-horse doesn't always warrant a response perhaps, just accept that there is no market for DVD's of the ESC, more people do not watch that rubbish than do (how long before the BBC/UK stops entering/screening it?...), more people are not buying into HD than are - obviously HD will become more popular as people replace their CRT and even early flat-screen televisions due to the natural life cycles, especially as the retail price point of HD sets come down, all of which is very reminiscent of the transition from B&W to colour and the switch from VHF to UHF transmission.

    I really do feel at times that much of the badgering from those demanding ever greater/better HD services are from those who bought into the HD platform early due to the hype alone and not the need to replace/upgrade in much the same way as many early adopters of wide-screen technology used to badger broadcasters for not having more WS programmes, basically wanting to justify their investment...

    #46. At 00:46am on 14 Sep 2009, HD1080 wrote:

    "when we might get broadcasts of high frame rate television (ie. >=100fps)"

    But is there any real need, never mind commercial market, for >=100fps television?

  • Comment number 48.

    "I would also like to know how much it costs the BBC to release a BBC HD production on Blu-ray and how many sales are needed to profit."

    You aren't going to get an answer to that, so there's really no point asking. No commercial company would tell you.

    But a Eurovision Blu-ray would be very unlikely to make a profit, as clearing the rights to the various different songs would be an unholy nightmare - heck, some of them didn't even make it through the week of transmission on Eurovision's own website due to copyright problems. After that it would need to sell a lot more than it ever would to make anything but a loss.

    Phazer

  • Comment number 49.

    I too add a request for an updated Freeview HD post, featuring the transmitter rollout in detail.

    We also should be told what services are changing multiplex on 30th September 2009m and those that are disappearing completely (I believe the News Multiscreens are doomed according to comments elsewhere) and those that are being removed from Freeview Lite as a result of the clearing of the BBC'B' mux for HD services.

  • Comment number 50.

    #49. At 12:18pm on 14 Sep 2009, ChrisCornwall wrote:

    "I too add a request for an updated Freeview HD post, featuring the transmitter rollout in detail."

    Well I'm looking forward to the announcement that the current silly idea is either being scrapped completely or that there is going to be a major rethink within both HMG and Ofcom about spectrum use after DSO... Unfortunately the manta seems to be Never mind the quality, see the quantity, such idiocy will do HD nor SD DVB-T any good what so ever. :-(

  • Comment number 51.

    I missed the last but one (non-repeat) episode of Top Gear recently because I planned to watch it on series catch up and once the last programme had been shown (but before it expired after 7 days) the previous programmes disappeared. This was on Virgin Media, and I'm pretty sure it also went from online too.

    Can the series catchup remain until 7 days after the last programme?

  • Comment number 52.

    # 21 HeyHudson:

    Make the links in this blog more obvious. Even the ones in bold are difficult to pick out from the rest of the text. #023F6D and #424242 are waaaaay too similar.

    Pretty poor UX I'm afraid and I'm surprised a company of the size of the BBC isn't a little tighter on this sort of thing. It's a 2 minute CSS change, surely.


    The links are fixed - thanks to Keerthi and Jessica - sorry it took so long. I've been finding my way around the processes to get things changed on the blog and it took me a while. I'm as pleased as you are as I hated the previous link style.

    BTW, I'm not sure there's such a thing as a 2 minute change in any company the size of the BBC. ;-)
    Paul

  • Comment number 53.

    # 14 Boilerplated:
    That is plain daft, are the BBC really implying that the majority of the audience can't use the EPG etc. to work out what channel they are watching?!

    On the DOGs front there is an acknowledgment in Danielle's original post on the blog that they're not just for user navigation when flicking through channels but that they also play a role in establishing channels' brands:
    "(DOGs) play an important role for channels in helping to establish their brands through the content they go alongside."

  • Comment number 54.

    In reply to comments @ #53

    Thanks for repeating the official 'excuse'. Can I ask what the point of the TV's own channel ID OSD is, if it's not to inform the viewer what channel they are tuned to?...

  • Comment number 55.

    Re: Post 48
    The EBU already owns the copyright to all the songs used in the production. All entrants give the copyright to the EBU and it is mentioned many times in the rules which all entrants have to sign. The BBC is a founding member of the EBU and pays millions of pounds annually as part of membership of the EBU. If there was a problem with copyrights preventing a BD release, they wouldn't still be selling it on DVD.

    Re: Post 47
    I think your post is very insulting, both to the BBC/EBU and the millions of people who watch the programme. If you don't like it that's up to you but don't use this board to insult. I was asking the BBC. The programme is produced to a very high technical standard by the EBU but also very good value for money for the BBC even though it has a big budget (big enough for a BD release), because it is joint produced by the EBU members (including the BBC) it can be produced for much, much lower cost to the BBC than other programmes.

    "But is there any real need, never mind commercial market, for >=100fps television?"

    Again I was asking the BBC/original poster who had said there would be a blog on it. If you had read the BBC's white paper which I linked to in that post you would know the answer.

  • Comment number 56.

    In reply to comments @ #55

    "The BBC is a founding member of the EBU and pays millions of pounds annually as part of membership of the EBU."

    Yes but the EBU is not the ESC either (the EBU is really more to do with technical development, and co-operation, that was the original point of the ESC and why it was started), and who says the EBU holds the rights to the songs anyway, surely they will be owned by the groups, writers and recording companies - all the EBU will hold is the broadcasting rights during the actual ESC. A bit like the host broadcaster of the Olympics has the right to broadcast the sporting action during the games but doesn't necessary hold the rights to produce DVD's of the games at a later date, that resides with the IOC or who ever they (the IOC) sell the license to

    "If there was a problem with copyrights preventing a BD release, they wouldn't still be selling it on DVD"

    Not so, it depends on what has been licensed, if the licence is only for DVD's then they can't release BD discs (or for that matter VCDs!). Sorry but you really do need to read up on copyright and licensing...

    "If you don't like it that's up to you but don't use this board to insult."

    You are entitled to your opinions, just as others are entitled to theirs, if you don't understand that concept then you are the one who is starting down the road of being insulting...

    ""But is there any real need, never mind commercial market, for >=100fps television?"

    Again I was asking the BBC/original poster who had said there would be a blog on it. If you had read the BBC's white paper which I linked to in that post you would know the answer."


    You point being what, just because there is some white paper extolling the virtues of some new technology it doesn't mean that the technology is needed, just possible, that's the purpose of research and development - not every idea is put into production.

  • Comment number 57.

    re: High Frame rates

    Basically higher frame rate production is needed if a high quality TV moving picture is wanted, especially on TV's with high spatial resolution (eg. HDTVs). The white paper is basically saying that if you increase the spatial resolution of TV (eg. from SD to HD) but do not increase the frame rate, it will just lead to more blurred pixels when anything, especially the cameras moves - that or increased strobing/jerky camera motion, and general lack of motion resolution.

    It also mentions that with mpeg style compression, the bitrate needed to compress wouldn't be that much more, since there is greater similarity between the frames. It would also benefit production/lead to higher quality even if the final broadcast/end product is at current frame rates - eg. sort of temporal over-sampling. It would also aid in format conversion.

  • Comment number 58.

    Re: Post 56
    "Not so, it depends on what has been licensed, if the licence is only for DVD's then they can't release BD discs (or for that matter VCDs!). Sorry but you really do need to read up on copyright and licensing..."

    See this document which has the rules for the ESC 2009:
    http://s.v3.tvp.pl/repository/attachment/9/f/d/9fd3fc42e7cea693f25454e9853dbb4f1232987922555.pdf

    "Section Three: Organization

    3) The EBU is the sole right-holder of the Eurovision Song Contest. All rights in the ESC and the Shows are exclusively owned and managed on a centralized basis by the EBU, which shall be responsible, in consultation with the Reference Group, for the marketing of all commercial exploitation rights as specified in Annexe 2 hereto, for
    the benefit of the Participating Broadcasters and the Host Broadcaster..."

    d) CD DVD Compilation and Download Rights: These are the worldwide rights
    necessary for releasing the official CD or DVD (or [b]similar carrier[/b]) Compilation of the ESC 2009 and [b]other media products[/b] as set out in more detail in Appendix 5. The CD DVD Compilation and other ESC media products are to be released by the EBU Permanent Services, or a third party appointed only by the EBU (possibly including international ESC sponsors), on behalf of all broadcasters and artists involved."

    That document doesn't have the appendix 5 which is supposed to have more details, but from looking at that document it looks like they do get all the rights to produce the CD, DVD or [b]similar carrier/other media products[b] (which to me sounds like it includes Blu-ray).

  • Comment number 59.

    Didn't the BBC blogs allow us to add bold text by adding [b] and [/b]?
    http://home2.btconnect.com/tipiglen/links2.html

    But the bold text doesn't seem to be working any more.

  • Comment number 60.

    HD1080 and Boilerplated - while this is an open post I'm struggling to see what this particular discussion has to do with the BBC. It seems to be more about the EBU. Anyway, please stay civil.

  • Comment number 61.

    @21 PaulMurphy1

    Great stuff, thanks for that. I work as a front-end developer for a large website as well, so I know what you mean about there being no such thing as a "quick" change when it comes to these things - I share your pain!

  • Comment number 62.

    "I'm struggling to see what this particular discussion has to do with the BBC. It seems to be more about the EBU".

    The BBC is a founding member of the EBU. The programmes in question are shown on the BBC HD channel. The BBC pays millions of pounds of license fee payers money to be part of the EBU, and thousands towards production of the programme (or a lot more when they are the host broadcaster). The EBU are not yet releasing this programme on Blu-ray. The BBC, as members of the EBU attend EBU meetings (like Andy Quested did recently). As members of the EBU, the BBC, who attend EBU meetings I think it is possible they could discuss matters such as Blu-ray releases of programmes which they, as EBU members, co-produced. The BBC themselves (or BBC Worldwide/2Entertain) release Blu-ray titles. It is possible that if the CD/DVD producer which the EBU currently uses to produce their discs (CMC Entertainment A/S) does not want to produce them, that the BBC could ask whether they could produce the Blu-ray releases (through BBC Worldwide/2Entertain) as they (the BBC) as members of the EBU, co-produced the programmes (and broadcast them on their BBD HD channel) and have methods in place for Blu-ray production (the BBC have already released many titles on Blu-ray).

  • Comment number 63.

    #58. At 01:14am on 15 Sep 2009, HD1080 wrote:

    "3) The EBU is the sole right-holder of the Eurovision Song Contest."

    Best you ask the EBU and not the BBC then, as Nick has pointed out, your question (about the ESC) appears to be off topic even for an open blog!

    #59. At 01:28am on 15 Sep 2009, HD1080 wrote:

    Didn't the BBC blogs allow us to add bold text by adding [b] and [/b]?

    Perhaps if you used the html code between the correct brackets (< and >) rather than the adulterated code [squared brackets] as used on many 'Wiki' type sites...

  • Comment number 64.

    re: post 63
    I already asked the EBU. What more can I ask them? It is the BBC who the UK license fee payers pay money to. The BBC who use license fee payers money to co-produce these programmes which they show on their channels (including BBC HD). The BBC are members of the EBU and one of the top 4 contributors to the programme. As I said above, as EBU members, who attend their meetings, the BBC should have some say in EBU decisions, including those about releases of programmes on Blu-ray.

  • Comment number 65.

    #64. At 09:54am on 15 Sep 2009, HD1080 wrote:

    "re: post 63
    I already asked the EBU. What more can I ask them? It is the BBC who the UK license fee payers pay money to. The BBC who use license fee payers money to co-produce these programmes which they show on their channels (including BBC HD)."


    But as you quoted yourself in comment #58, the BBC do not hold the rights, the EBU does, the BBC doesn't hold the rights beyond those for publicising and broadcasting the event.

    "the BBC should have some say in EBU decisions,"

    That would depend on how the EBU is constituted and how remote it's commercial operations are to it's core technical operations.

    As an aside, what, in your estimation, would the market be for a release of a Blu-ray disc of the ESC, how many millions would it sell, what sort of return would it make. Do you seriously think that the EBU (even the BBC) have not already made those calculations and the lack of such a release gives you the answer you're after?...

  • Comment number 66.

    See this document which has the rules for the ESC 2009:
    http://s.v3.tvp.pl/repository/attachment/9/f/d/9fd3fc42e7cea693f25454e9853dbb4f1232987922555.pdf


    Nope, sorry - that doesn't say what you think it does. Trying to take an assignment of copyright in the way you think it does is illegal for musical works in France and Germany anyway.

    However, if they have a DVD then licencing probably isn't the problem so much as the fact they don't think it's worth the money.

    It is possible that if the CD/DVD producer which the EBU currently uses to produce their discs (CMC Entertainment A/S) does not want to produce them, that the BBC could ask whether they could produce the Blu-ray releases (through BBC Worldwide/2Entertain) as they (the BBC) as members of the EBU, co-produced the programmes (and broadcast them on their BBD HD channel) and have methods in place for Blu-ray production (the BBC have already released many titles on Blu-ray).

    If CMC have the DVD rights then they almost certainly have exclusive rights on any Blu-ray release as well.

    Phazer

  • Comment number 67.

    A message to BBC Four.

    You advertise BBC Four as being for the more discerning viewer. Would you please stop showing the BBC Four logo throughout programmes such as Wallander and Spiral 2?

    (Unless, of course, it is not a "navigation tool" but instead an antipiracy measure -in which case why don't you just admit this? We might then be more tolerant of the intrusion onto our screens.)

    Thank you!

  • Comment number 68.

    #53. At 5:08pm on 14 Sep 2009, PaulMurphy1 wrote:
    On the DOGs front there is an acknowledgment in Danielle's original post on the blog that they're not just for user navigation when flicking through channels but that they also play a role in establishing channels' brands:
    "(DOGs) play an important role for channels in helping to establish their brands through the content they go alongside."

    Indeed they do - it reminds me that I'm on BBC3 and it's not worth trying to watch it BECAUSE OF THE HIDEOUS LOGO THAT I WILL BE LOOKING AT INSTEAD OF THE PROGRAMME!

    (Yes, I'm aware I'm shouting...)

  • Comment number 69.

    There shouldn't be DOGs on BBC channels - they are on commercial channels for marketing purposes so that viewers have it drummed into them what channel they are watching, so the brand becomes more familiar and recognisable, which feeds into advertising revenues. This does not apply to the BBC.

    The compromise on BBCHD is better than nothing (although it's not always adhered to) - why don't the other BBC channels follow suit, instead of ruining dramas like Spiral2? It doesn't matter so much on news, sport, panel shows etc. but the logo can ruin drama and nature programmes.

  • Comment number 70.

    I would love keyboard shortcuts on the iPlayer streaming window: such as spacebar for play/pause (all the standard ones supported by Windows Media Player and iTunes). This would be great for users with remote controls and even disabled users for whom a mouse is difficult.

    Also, a keyboard shortcut for "full screen mode" would be excellent...

  • Comment number 71.

    Paul, how does having a DOG imprinted on the content we are viewing benefit us in any way, shape or form? It is well established that we can associate the content with the channel through the built-in EPG. We are not interested in how the BBC builds it brand. We simply want to watch the content we are by law required to pay for if we want to receive live TV broadcasts without intrusion.

    This issue will not go away. When BBC One and Two launched on digital with DOGs public outrage quickly caused their removal.

  • Comment number 72.

    Also, you may be interested to know the hideous disgusting pink BBC Three DOG is the sole reason that channel has gone from one of my most watched to a never-watch for me.

  • Comment number 73.

    Regarding previously mentioned "Comment Spam":

    Nick, Paul, or anyone from BBC Online, can someone please make the moderators aware of this user - userid=14129963 - and their abuse of your blogs. Sorry but I haven't got the time file multiple reports...

    I'll repeat my comment way-up, there needs to be a way of referring an account to moderation and not just individual comments.

  • Comment number 74.

    re: Post 65

    It wouldn't need to sell millions to profit, only more than it cost to release it (it might just need to sell a few hundred copies or lots less than that if the publisher has already released Blu-ray titles), which is loads less than the budget of the programme (which is millions), and loads loads less than the amount the just BBC contributes (hundreds of thousands).

    In fact it might cost the BBC (or BBC Worldwide) less than the EBU/their current producer, because the BBC have already released Blu-ray titles so it would cost them less in (AACS etc.) license fees.

    "For a publisher that has already been publishing on BD and hence has already paid his Content Provider Agreement Fee, the fees to publish a run of 2,000 units have dropped from $1,380 to just $580.". $580=£351. Okay you've got replication fees to I think but those aren't much compared to the initial license fee. So it could be you'd only need to sell a tiny few copies to make a profit.

    And if it's about the money, I could help them if I could get a share of all of the profits. :)

  • Comment number 75.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 76.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 77.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 78.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 79.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 80.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 81.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 82.

    Time for some moderation maybe?

  • Comment number 83.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 84.

    I haven't read all the comments so this may already have been mentioned; I like to read the reporter's blogs but have been having difficulty now that the correspondants have moved about.

    For example on the list on the left hand side Mark Mardell is still listed as Euroblog although he is now in America. I only discovered this by clicking on a link elsewhere on the site.

    Can we get this list updated?

    Thanks

  • Comment number 85.

    As Nick said earlier (#60) we're meant to be talking about the BBC, not the EBU or the ESC. From here on EBU and ESC are off-topic and I'll be deleting some of the earlier ones.

    And please be civil.

  • Comment number 86.

    In reply to comments made @ #74

    But there is no market for the ESC, people might well want the music but not the over-hyped visual stage acts, you are allowing your (obvious) personal enjoyment of the ESC to cloud the entrepreneurial judgement required in producing/marketing any CD, DVD or Blue-ray disc - as was said way up, if there was a market and ifall the rights were so easily available don't you think that either the EBU or the BBC would have cottoned on to it by now?...

  • Comment number 87.

    In reply to comments made @ #85

    Paul, perhaps it might be better getting the various comment-spam removed, as pointed out in my comment at #73, rather than selectively removing comments from an ongoing - if off topic - debate...

  • Comment number 88.

    BBC Interactive on Freeview post 30-Sep-2009

    Please in DSO areas reconsider your reported decision to keep the News Multichannel Screens and drop one of the interactive streams instead. This is going to make Wimbledon impossible, or at least kill the News Multiscreens on Saturday and During Sporting events.

    I'm very very disappointed that you've chosen to do this.

    A Freeview retune / Freeview HD post is VERY overdue.

  • Comment number 89.

    #87. Boilerplated wrote:

    Paul, perhaps it might be better getting the various comment-spam removed, as pointed out in my comment at #73, rather than selectively removing comments from an ongoing - if off topic - debate...

    The user you refer to has been banned, blocked and binned. The comment spam still visible is the stuff I haven't had a chance to remove as it's a laborious and slow task - I've taken down over half of it so far but have been on a two day training course and am now off for a few days. As mentioned before we have introduced pre-mod for new users which is a pain for genuine new users but will deter comment spammers.

  • Comment number 90.

    Not sure if this is part of the BBC's digital services mentioned up top but here goes anyway, what is the rational for the BBC to broadcast CBBC content on the DVB-T "Red Button" services (although I tend just to use LCN 301 & 302 to access what I need...) in the middle of the night when just about all the children in the UK will be in bed - certainly on a week night. Would it not make more sense to broadcast content more relevant to adults who are far more likely to be watching TV at that sort of hour?!

  • Comment number 91.

    Boilerplated - just to let you know that I've been promised an official answer from my boss on your red button/CBBC question but I won't get it until Monday. But I will get you an answer!

    Andrew, BBC Red Button

  • Comment number 92.

    ... Andrew anything on the Freeview Red Button Interactive v News Multiscreens issue please?

  • Comment number 93.

    Could there be an option on iPlayer to stream the data at a lower bit-rate? I enjoy watching iPlayer, but I'm worried about exceeding the data limit imposed by my network provider.

  • Comment number 94.

    Any idea if anyone is planning to reply to comments over at 'BBC HD: Autumn Schedule' - loads of people are asking questions, but no one is getting answers. =/

  • Comment number 95.

    Hi ChrisCornwall. I can certainly reassure everyone that the 30th September retune will not affect the provision of any BBC TV, radio or red button service in any way and all services will continue as normal. It's business as usual - as long as you retune your set top box, or your box retunes itself :)

    Should there ever be any significant changes to our service, we'd make sure that was well publicised and there would be a detailed post about it on our blog, Press Red, which can be found at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/pressred. I'm sure it would be cross-posted here as well.

  • Comment number 96.

    #95 Thank you.

  • Comment number 97.

    #91

    Andrew, any follow up reply yet?

  • Comment number 98.

    Hi Boilerplated - I've been chasing up. There was apparently an "official response", and the person who apparently has it, hasn't managed to find it yet.

    I can partially answer and say that we only show CBBC extra overnight when there is nothing else to show - its presence isn't stopping anything else from being broadcast

  • Comment number 99.

    Also, (it may be a long shot), but it would be great if all Open University programming permanently (not just for 7 days) found a home on the iPlayer - it would truly be a great learning resource for the whole country and serve the public-service remit well.

  • Comment number 100.

    #98. At 3:30pm on 21 Sep 2009, Andrew Bowden wrote:

    "Hi Boilerplated - I've been chasing up. There was apparently an "official response", and the person who apparently has it, hasn't managed to find it yet."

    Hmm, I think I get the gist of that, obviously this question has been asked before then, or is this person still finding their words?! ;-)

    "I can partially answer and say that we only show CBBC extra overnight when there is nothing else to show - its presence isn't stopping anything else from being broadcast"

    Not sure if I follow that, I suspect that we are talking rights issues and Ofcom regulation problems for the two 'interactive' channels that I mentioned?

 

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