Murray must shoulder blame for Rangers crisis

Excellent blog. Restrained, concise, and not afraid to give an opinion. Thanks.

we all remember the daily record with a funeral hearse parked outside celtic park and the title 'celtic F.C R.I.P'.
funny isn't it that all the time rangers were dominating scottish football it was all bought with money they never had.
selling season tickets won't work because rangers will struggle to fill ibrox now as the glory hunters will move on or just stop going.
and isn't it funny that rangers supporters for years called celtic the poor men of the east end of glasgow.

well. what goes around comes around.
rangers should be forced to pay taxes like everyone else does.
im not sorry they are in this position. football north of the border is now a one horse race and dead.

I think its a very fair statement to say that the blame has to land at David Murray's feet. Did he honestly think that spending millions and millions of pounds on players (with quite a few flops) wouldnt have any repurcussions?

With regards to this years championship, I think that if Celtic win it (which looks highly likely right now), it will always be remembered as a tainted championship- the one that they were handed on merit!

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in response to comment number 3.
celtic have already pulled back the massive points lead rangers had at one stage this season and now lead the championship on results.
so if the season ends now celtic deserve to be at the top. end of story.

"The Old Firm are interesting, but so was my breakfast this morning".

Obviously a full Scottish fry-up this morning then Jim ?

Sir David Murray is well and truly to blame for the mess at Rangers FC. Craig Whyte is not the answer to the clubs problems but he is not responsible for them. The booing of Craig Whyte last night was appalling and totally unjustified. Entering into administration is not something Craig Whyte will have wanted to do but when facing a tax bill of around £70 million there is little option for him

The hypocrasy shown by former directors of the club is also stomach churning after all it was the former directors and their mis-management that led us to this point in time.

Forgot to say - "with some acolytes in the media and wider football world, his dealings at Rangers were seldom severely scrutinised."

Chick Young has been unusually quiet on this one...

@5 - I think you missed BlueRedAndWhite88's joke - to my mind he's suggesting his team did not get theirs on merit, though I could be wrong.

I'm not surprised that Spenny is the one to leap over the parapet on this one - it could only have been him or Richard [Gordon]. Murray's profligacy ruined the competitive field in Ssottish football, and as such should face the harshest punishment. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

I also hope my fellow Tims who were calling for Peter Lawwell to spend money we didn't have now have the guts to stand up and admit they were wrong, and he right.

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Sorry Zombierider...I was one of the fans who bought a seat in the club deck at Ibrox at the beginning of the nineties....I fully intend to keep purchasing my season ticket as long as i am capable of going....If the glory hunters wish to move on so be it but then with friends like that etc.

What did you have for breakfast this morning Jim?

Ayr United Fan here - thank goodness we had the gumption to knock back SDM and his millions before he moved on to Rangers.

It's not as if no other famous clubs have ever had serious problems. Madrid, Liverpool, Leeds, West Ham...The list goes on.

Being positive, if there is a good functioning stadium with a large number of people willing to pay to watch football, then there will be a football club. If the land is more valuable as houses, supermarkets or car parks, then the problem is more serious.
Will the club now wish to play in an English league [and would UEFA let them if Scotland votes to secede from the United Kingdom]? Would Celtic be happy to remain playing with the remaining Scottish clubs?
Interesting times.

How did the Ayr v Kilmarnock game get 25,000?, because both sets of fans thought this was a game they could win the game and get into a Cup Final.

How do Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Hibs get 8-10,000 fans when they don't win a trophy every season?, because the fans want to go and see the team they support, not because Celtic and Rangers are in the league.

Imagine if those afore mentioned clubs and teams like Motherweel and St Mirren had the carrot of a possible 2nd/3rd place finish, or if they showed even a lil bit more ambition and only had 1 half of the "big 2" to compete against and gave a go of challenging them over the season, wouldn't that bring out more fans???

can't believe ppl want to kill the intergrity of the game in scotland by allowing a team to survive at the top not through fair play and merit, but because they might add a few quid to a TV deal, how is that fair on teams like Falkirk, Hamilton, Partick Thistle who played by the rules and didn't stay in the division?

i think your blog was very accurate and stated the obvious that sir david murray jumped ship just in time .very bad leadership at the top , spending way too much money which rangers really did not have .i can only imagine how the east end of town must be gloating today ( and quite rightly so ! ).but i,ve got to say that scottish football in general is in a sorry state .both sides of the old firm are a shadow of there former self , buying players who had no business playing for the blue or the green and white .look at the european debacles over the last few years ...there is no class anymore .the money is not there and neither the quality .all people look forward to is a rangers-celtic game , all else is a bore .

Casting distasteful gloating aside, what concerns me the most is this quote:

HM Revenue and Customs could mount a legal challenge to a move by Mr Whyte to take over the club's assets, as there are areas of the law the tax authority is keen to test.

In other words The tax office is playing games with Rangers. Surely there are other means to test an establish laws rather than play with peoples livelihoods?

more balanced comments here than DR where their blog and others are calling for the return of David Murray, we all do not have full story but there seems to be a legacy of past failings. Like Celtic in the past they will quite possibly bounce back.

Why is this BBC sport blog being pre-moderated? Maybe I can guess at the BBC's reason for doing so, but I don't like my guess.

To anyone who that thinks if or should i say when Celtic win the SPL this season that it will be tainted in any way is kidding themselves on...the tainted championships and trophies that Rangers won during the eleven year that HMRC were owed money have been gained by deception and seeking to gain an unfair advantage over every other club in the SPL who paid their taxes in that period....in short.. they cheated....

Former Rangers chairman Alastair Johnston questions Craig Whyte's decision to edge the club towards administration. Surely, the pot is calling the kettle black, Johnston was part of the incompetent board that that landed Rangers in the bother they are in now.

As far as Scottish football not missing Rangers, well where will we start? Every club is experiencing falling attendances, and the Premier League minnows have continually refused to change the league format, because they need to play the old firm four times a year, with TV money, to make enough revenue to keep them afloat.

Celtic say they don’t care what happens to Rangers, that’s head in the sand stuff. Can you foresee a non competitive league where it is just Celtic that walk it every single year. With no competition, no money, falling attendances would soon be no attendances and our sliding quality of football would sink into oblivion.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news to all you "holier than thou", but Rangers haven't actually lost this Test case yet, and in point of fact, given that HMRC have stated that if they lose they fully intend to appeal in order to test the law suggests to me that the tax office expects to lose. Ergo, Rangers would have done nothing wrong.

Who are Rangers fans going to support if Rangers are no longer? I'd suggest Queen's Park. They are in Glasgow, have a lovely stadium and they can sing God Save The Queen to their hearts content.

Jim. You say...for every 5 pounds celtic spend rangers will spend 10 pounds..and...that now has a hollow ring to it..!!..I dont think so. Thats exactly what D Murray/Rangers did...and a lot more...but as it turns not his or their money...but the taxpayers...How many cups and titles has the taxpayers money bought? How much money was lost by other clubs over the years from this action. This whole sorry episode has much more consequences than Glasgow Rangers going into administration.

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Murray bought the players and titles on the back of other successful business ventures. He ploughed his companies, therefore his own, money into Rangers and like the rest of the world didn’t see the financial crisis coming. Hard to blame one man considering no one complained during the glory years. The failure of the institution stems deeper than Murray, RFC and the Scottish economy.

Administration will be a major embarassment to Rangers, but the political and football establishment will ensure that minimum damage is incurred by the club, unlike its view of the other recent tax-dodgers, Dundee FC.

Rangers is the largest club to get caught out flaunting basic business principles and financial rules, but it won't be the last, as so many clubs Europe-wide are living beyond their means. Once the sugar daddies get bored with their toys, the likes of Chelsea and Man City will be the next to bring the professional game at the top level into further disrepute.

Too simplistic a blog Jim. Murray's legacy left 2 tax cases with HMRC but my understanding is that CW has been in charge for less than 12 months and there are 2 new tax issues with HMRC from his short time in charge... £5m VAT payable for the £24m deal with Ticketus, and allegedly £2m arrears on NI & PAYE payments on players salaries since CW took over... a further £7m+ tax debt run up in under a year, and also CW never did remove the bank debt either, the £18m debt to Llyods / HBOS now exists as a floating charge over the club held by one of CW's companies, and he was also supposed to settle the wee tax case with HMRC when he took over but refused to pay up and when the sherrif's officer turned up wanting payment he decided to appeal the £4.2m he was supposed to pay.

My hope as a St Mirren supporter is that Rangers are made to pay heir £75m tax liability in full. My club almost went to the wall a few times in the 1990s and 2000s over a much smaller debt and we traded our way through our financial difficulties by living within our means and slowly lower the debt year on year, selling our ground, building a newer smaller stadium. While all of that was happening Rangers were one of the SPL clubs who voted to say that to gain access to the SPL St Mirren had to build a 4th stand at Love Street and bring the all seated capacity up to 10,000 seats and then changed the rule the season after the stand was built (at a huge cost to a club struggling to stay afloat). Rangers were part of the SPL board who also said St Mirren had to stump and install 2 undersoil heating systems in the same season at Love Street (for our final year there) as well as at the new ground on Greenhill Road.

Scottish football will survive OK without Rangers, wise clubs with good chairmen like Stewart Gilmour will adjust their budgets and live within them. If the TV deals end then great, we can go and see our clubs play at 3pm most Saturdays and more people will turn up at the grounds if they aren't being shown live on TV anyway.

Should RFC go into liquidation is it not the case that this would mean, under SPL rules, that if Rangers go bust with around £100m in debt (HMRC plus other creditors) that whoever finishes 12th avoids relegation and the first division champions come up, and it would need an 11-1 vote of the SPL to change the rules?

The only way I can see RFC remaining in the SPL if things reach liquidation is if the SPL suddenly vote to expand the league to 14 teams meaning there is a place for Dunfermline, Ross County, newco Rangers FC, and 1 other team and Sky would still get 4 OF SPL games per season assuming Rangers finish in the top half of the league after the split... or if Ross County's ground is not deemed fit for the SPL.

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@ comment #4

"Blaming Murray for buying 9 titles is a bit redundant. That he bought them by mortgaging the future of his Club was well known to everyone inside and outside the game, every Club in the country is run on the same debt principles."

Nonsense. St Johnstone have no debt and throughout Geoff Brown's tenure operated with strict wage caps in place. When the club was hit by the collapse of the TV deal a decade ago they took it on the chin, didn't spend and got relegated. Trying to let Rangers off with the argument that "they were all at it" dosen't cut mustard.

It's no surprise to anyone that has been watching events at the last few years that it has come down to this. I still find it astonishing that a club like rangers, with the support and sucess that they have had, can get itself into this mess while smaller clubs manage to keep their head above water.

However, although he should take most of the blame, I don't think we can lay it all at the door of David Murray. Whyte is the one that bought Rangers and soon after said it would be "debt free". Nonsense. He has also been in control of the club and it's finances for almost a year now and so far things have seems to of got worse rather than better. He shouldn't be left of the hook.

We can also blame fans for not investing in the share option in 2004, which ended in David Murray having to dig deep into his pockets, yet again. We can also blame them for putting pressure on the club to buy the likes of Negri, Flo, Amorousso and so on. Walter Smith, Souness and Advocat have played their part too. Of course nobody complained while they were winning trophies. But now it's not even certain if the club will survive.

celtic fans have nothing to be happy about either.
celtic just made a profit this year and you can be sure james forrest or Gary Hooper will be sold in the close season because they will need the money. many clubs in england are already looking at forrest and im sure he will go for a lot of money.
But id say to rangers fans this is not the end. If anything in time of trouble you pull together on the pitch and fight.
Celtic reduced a massive points gap and that didnt look likely so id say to rangers players, stand up and fight for it. things are bad but come together and demonstrate why you win championships.
and the supporters id say go and back the team. dont boo them on the pitch.
just back them because you can be sure the players are just as concerned as you are.

@ number 19: Frogstar.

Pre- moderation is only affecting one side of the discussion!

If this had been Hearts wee Chick and the other OF apologists would have been all over this like a rash
Chick where are you!

"John - The establishment did it", you'll find many of us on here who are not Celtic supporters. But when a group of thousands of supporters come to my town, my club, make a mess of the streets (i.e. Manchester), sing disgusting sectarian songs and riot you'll find few tears shed for the loss of their club if/when it does happen. When people remind Rangers and their supporters of this they'll try to deflect alot on to Celtic or others stating their fans aren't much better, but in this case Scotland will be better off without them. Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs etc all have a nasty element to their support, Hearts in particular, but I've never seen anything like what I saw that day in Manchester. Digression aside Celtic fans will enjoy this as Rangers did in 1994. However, if they do fold then life will go on despite Rangers supporters hoping it won't. The team who finishes 2nd to Celtic may get a run in Europe. Celtic's advantage can be eaten away just as it was after their 9 championships in a row when within a decade Aberdeen were top of Europe. This could be a good day for Scotland.

Chick can now exclusively reveal that Hearts have paid their outstanding tax bill
Great news eh Chick!

Oh how the rest of the SPL laughed on 13/02/2012 and now again on 14/02/2012.

Why do R*****s fans seem to think that the SPL world revolves around them.
I for one (Celtic fan) will be glad to see the back of a team that has dragged the SPL and Scotland’s reputation down, on and off the field for decades. Don't get me wrong, Celtic are no halo wearing club either but in comparison to the blue half they are quite the saints.
I think that the SPL will need to re-invent itself (again) with a diluted Rangers FC, they should NOT be allowed to walk away without any due punishment. If you can't pay the time, don't do the crime. It isn't as if this is a "shock, Horror" moment, there have been rumblings now for YEARS about the state of finances down Govan way!!!
Pay up or shut up... shut up shop that is!

You wouldn’t get away with it if you were Hibs, Aberdeen, St. Mirren or even Celtic FC etc etc etc etc

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when are the bbc updating the league table?

If SDM - the wise financial genius is supposed to be releasing a statement today - is proved to have dodged taxes through his use of EBT's, then he should rightly be stripped of his knighthood. It could only have been shown to have been gained under illegal pretences and this 'gloryhunter' and chancer should be treated in exactly the same way as Sir Fred.

SDM is to blame for the state of this club and his legacy may be the man whose actions finished top-level football in Scotland.

17 point swing turns into a 27 point swing............. wow.
Come on Motherwell, step up to the plate and claim 2nd spot. If anyone except Mr McCall was in charge, I would honestly think that you could do it...............

Can't wait for saturday now just to see how many "loyal" bears show up for the match.... I will be sitting down with my Jelly and Ice Cream in anticipation!!

Hail Hail

Jim - please can you scotch the rumours now circulating that Chic Young is intending to hold a candlelight vigil outside Ibrox tonight and every other night until Rangers exit administration

Rangers are only doing what many company's have done during the recession and that's fold as a primary company and all the debts that go along with it and then start afresh.They are a company like no other and have the right to exercise this option if they feel they need to do so for the good of the club as a company.

Another point, "Can Celtic survive without Rangers" like its been reported, simple answer on that one is NO, they might do good for another couple of seasons but then the attraction will be lost by players wanting to play in a fixture like the derby game, TV revenue will also be a lot less than it is just now, supporters will stop attending Celtic park due to the fact the main focus on Celtic's objective over the season is to beat Rangers to the title and when that's not an option then i ask "Where will the attraction come from in order to keep the supporters happy"

And another is "Can the SPL survive without Rangers" well that answer is simple too, YES it can and the league like the way its been going anyway in recent years is it will end up like league's in Norway, Denmark, Belgium and some similar smaller country's.

Another point to make is, some comments here suggest Rangers be stripped of the titles they won in the 90's as they had an unfair advantage financially by not paying the taxes due back then, let me tell you as you's should be aware anyway, Money DOESN'T buy you success on the park, you only have to look at teams like Chelsea to work that one out.

Bottom line is for all concerned and YES that does include Celtic and the other SPL teams is that Rangers survive this and continue to be a playing club in the SPL, that is for the good of the Scottish game as a whole I feel.

Well said, Jim Spence. You're the first BBC man to state the truth: it's David Murray and his cohorts who ruined Rangers, whereas Craig Whyte is just a hapless chancer who thought he could be the knight in shining armour and make himself a few bob into the bargain. Too many barrow boys abetted by too many Gers-supporting media toadies. And yes, Celtic fans are right that we Rangers fans never questioned it when we won trophies, but we're not accountants and we were duped, too (and by the way, do Celtic fans not remember their club consistently understating attendances for tax purposes at Celtic Park during the era of Desmond White et al?) This is a tragedy for Rangers, and even if fans of other clubs do not agree, I think it does not reflect well on Scottish football. Celtic's recent financial prudence aside, too many clubs are struggling (Hearts being another). I couldn't care less about league titles or ten points at a time like this - I only care about my club. Peace to all fans of all Scottish teams.

Sadly, football justice will not be done for the financial recklessness. The championships and cups Rangers won throughout SDM's 'stewardship' are, of course, tainted - no-one will ever know if they'd have been won if Rangers had been adhering to the financial constraints of the real world.

They are not the first Scottish football club to have done this - closer to Jim's home, if not his heart, is Dundee FC, which has gone into administration not once but twice in recent years, having squandered something in the region of £27m that they simply didn't have, and having benefited in football terms from the players whose services were acquired with that illusionary money. Did no-one wonder how and why Claudio Canniggia and Ravanelli ended up playing at the less glamorous end of Tannadice St?

At last someone has realized that Murry was not the shinning god he thought he was , Im a bluenose through and through and for years I have wondered how can he have put so much in but we had so much debt no all has come out, As for former board member like mr Johnson shout from every media form he can find that thing are wrong with Mr Whyte i find this amazing after all theses years his tainted glasses have fallen off, He with other so called gaurdians of our beloved club put us in this mess and now when someone is going to try and fix it he cant stand it, Still not sure why he and rest of the old boys clubs aint dipped into there pockets and bailed us out? sure they enjoyed many a good year being in the boardroom

I just hope that the authorities treat Rangers as they would any other club. There are precedents that the SPL can follow with the 10 point deduction surely just the first sanction. If they fail to reach an agreement with their creditors and have to re-form as a new legal entity then surely they must be made to re-apply for election to the league with a decision to be made on whether that means applying to get back into the SPL or the SFL !! Afterall that is what happened to Airdrieonians and given it was a David Murray company which first put Airdrieonians into liquidation at the very time spending at Ibrox was so wildly out of control it seems like what goes around comes around! There is also the case of Livingston who were relegated to the basement of Scottish football for the manner in which they exited administration. Personally I believe that is the only fair sanction that should be applied to any club entering administration. 10 point deductions are only a sanction where they have a material affect on the club. In the case of Rangers it would only mean they will likely finish 2nd which in all likelihood was where they would have finished anyways.

The current Rangers debacle only goes to emphasise what a magnificent job Dermot Desmond has done at Celtic. He rescued the club following on from Fergus McCann's efforts to save an ailing behemoth, since then, he has ensured that Celtic has been run immaculately. There is still some bank debt but it is coming down. There is a young and talented squad with a young and capable back room team. Celtic abd their supporters are held in high regard around the world. They don't need Rangers to prosper. Real football people don't use the term "Old Firm" because Celtic should never be bracketed with Rangers. They are a completely separate entity, a family club that welcomes all comers regardless of background.

@ john mac. I could not care less what rangers done in manchester as your lot are no better. Anywhere the english go there is trouble so i think the rangers incident in manchester is a bit pot calling the kettle black if indeed you are english which im assuming you are as you say manchester is your city. Just wait until the euros in the summer i wonder if your lot will be launching chairs and bottles at innocent by standers and causing utter mayhem as had been done in previous tournaments when englands bottle crashed. As IT it goes i am an avid follower of ayr united and follow dundee utd as dundee is where i grew up.I could not care less what happens to either half of the old firm as both sets of fans make me cringe at the bile i hear. Which team do you support btw out of curiosity?

Betram have you actually been to parkhead and heard the bile they spout? or even to away games? I this season have taken my 8 year old nephew to some of the games who is a die hard celt taking after his dad. And i have now refused to take him with some of the bigoted racial bile i hear on a constant basis from some sections of the crowd. And i know the same things go on at rangers as i have friends who will even admit it who attend ibrox every week. How you can sit there and say celtic are whiter than white and a family club is beyond me i for one would not want anyone of my family sitting through that.

On a lighter note, fans of East Stirling and Clyde may well be looking forward to bumper attendances next season as fans of New Rangers FC visit their grounds looking to win the first trophy in their history.

Will Alloa now be looking to avoid promotion up a division?

Chic Young will be honing up on Third Division football as we speak and we might get some live coverage of these games on Sportscene.

Now that the decision has been taken and the administrator appointed we will just have to wait until the smoke clears and see exactly what happens to the assets and who they end up with.

BBC Scotland were reporting at lunchtime that HMRC had presented their petition in relation to a failure to pay tax since the club was taken over.
Now they are reporting that Strathclyde police are seeking proof of payment before policing the match on Saturday.

What a situation for a club that once claimed to be Scottish football to find itself in.

As I have attempted to post before, the only losers are the taxpayers, those who will be made redundant as a result of Rangers actions and the fact that it all appears to be legal doesn't make it taste any better.

I hope Rangers get the book thrown at them, but something tells me all this will result in is creditors being paid 2p in the pound, the debt being wiped out and the football authorities sanctions will be utterly meaningless. Losing 10 points does nothing - they weren't going to win the league anyway, but they'll still finish second. Things will only get interesting if this whole case forces some (at least relative) austerity on Rangers, by which I mean top earners on £2k p/w. By this token Rangers would conceivably win nothing / very little for the next 5-10 years, and then if the gloryhunters stay away then it could become a vicious cycle from which they will struggle to escape.

As for the comment:
"Real football people don't use the term "Old Firm" because Celtic should never be bracketed with Rangers. They are a completely separate entity"
Maybe you should consider that Rangers and Celtic have consistently acted as a voting bloc to stop any reform that might loosen their duopolistic noose over the other clubs in the slightest.

Consider the way that TV money is split so that 1st and 2nd both get the lion's share, then there is a massive drop for the 3rd place team. Why should 2nd get significantly more than 3rd - they've still not won anything? Only Rangers and Celtic could possibly think this is fair.

Where is the the First Minster in all of this .I sure he would loved to have another photo shoot to boost his ego, and blame the westminster goverment. On second thoughts maybe it`s not high profle enough for him.

To all those idiotic Celtic fans out there who think their club is unaffected by this, get real! This will affect the whole of Scottish football and not in a positive way. And to Grumble07, your comments are offensive to me, especially when you cannot get your punctuation correct when mouthing off - fans mouths should be fans' mouths, but then again, should I expect any different!

Lots of comments about the situation but in essence, it is a sad fact. There will be many Chairman of clubs both North and South of the border shaking in their boots as they have all used EBT's to pay player wages. Rangers are not alone in this! With HMRC being seen as hplaying hard ball, lets hope that they will adopt this stance with each and every club in the UK and get a sense of decorum back into the wages that platers earn.

We'd all love to have these types of salaries, but how many of us are enabled to take 50% of our salary into a pension pot from being a teenager, none, but Footballers are!!

The corruption that big money has ruined the game and has destroyed it for the fan.

All peopel who ,live in the UK shoudl pay their appropriate amount of tax, irrespective of their occupation. Footballers and Football have had it too easy for the last few decades. HRMS look like they are going to do some adjutments to their mind sets.

Its going to be a painful couple of years for football and Rangers are only the first to fall.

Lets hope that a new Rangers rise to bring the passion back becasue football without Rangers is liek living wothout a heart. Scotland and football need Rangers lets hope their Pheonix will prove less stressful.

Rangers are in administration? Good. Clubs should be punished for living outside their means.

In fact, I would go as far as to say if Rangers are liquidated / demoted for going into administration it could ultimately safe Scottish football.

Rangers and Celtic would no longer be able to block changes to the distribution of prize money and tv money due to the current requirement of an 11-1 majority.

This would probably lead to a decrease in the gap between Celtic and the rest of the league and it would be more competitive.

Hopefully the two team SPL is now dead.

Some notes on the cash distribution in the SPL:

1st place to 2nd place 15% difference
2nd place to 3rd place 50% difference
3rd to 4th 20% difference
4th to 5th 12% difference

Ludicrous

Fair point pitroddie but do you think sky and espn etc are really going to pay the other teams in the spl the same amount they do the old firm tv money? I very much doubt it the old firm game draws in millions of pounds i just dont see the fixtures celtic vs inverness cally or celtic vs dundee utd being anywhere near as in demand. Could probably wave goodbye to sky once the current deal is up as im sure they will drop their tv money to a stupidly small amount or pull the plug altogether.
Sad but true us smaller teams still wont stand a chance and the demise of rangers would not make this any better.

While this was going on, what were the SPL office-bearers doing to safeguard the integrity of their competition? Or the SFA, for that matter? Did either ever express concern to Rangers?

For the other clubs in Scotland, this could be revitalising. But will there be any effective competition to Celtic now, however this works out? If Rangers drop down, they'll take time to come back. If they don't, how many of the team will be there in six months, and what sort of challenge will they be able to mount? How much interest will the TV and sponsors have?

At what point did Scotland's football pundits realised that Ranger's finances were all smoke and mirrors?

It seemed that moment occurred only yesterday.

We now have One Firm domination in Scotland as the Old Firm died today.

PS Rangers are not worthy SPL champions, that title along with Murray's knighthood should be stripped forthwith.

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where does this leave other SPL clubs regarding tv deals cause im sure sky or espn wont be interested if things go belly up down ibrox way

Now that my anger has subsided a little at my previous post being deleted for what I thought were spurious reasons, please accept my belated congratulations Jim on a well crafted blog.

As I have posted here and elsewhere previously, Murray and his senior executives knew exactly what they were doing otherwise they would have pulled out of EBTs when other clubs did and, like them, paid the tax due.
The fact remains though that they didn't and, as a result, all UK taxpayers have been deprived of tax revenues due, staff working for Rangers will be made redundant and suppliers to the club will in all likelihood receive a pittance, if anything, at a time when they can least afford it.

It seems obvious therefore that Murray should lose his knighthood, Goodwin was merely incompetent, Murray was complicit.

We are now given to understand that payroll tax has not been paid since the takeover which would explain the new debt of £75M and again I ask the question,how can anyone justify any of this and support these people?

It doesn't matter where your alliegance lies in football terms, common decency should dictate that until/unless everyone previously associated with this scandal has left Rangers they should not be welcome in Scottish football.

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Well, if this is the pill that had to be swallowed then I suppose get on and swallow it. You can't argue with reality after all.

In terms of the tax problem, presumably this stems from an advantage that Rangers tried to secure in employing the best players they could in earlier seasons and this has come back to bite them on the behind.

I guess a fire sale is likely to leave the SPL as something of a one horse town and this could have consequences.

But, when push comes to shove, the club, which I'm sure will survive, will have to go back to square one and trade better in future. They should just make sure this administration is a one off as opposed to Portsmouth who seem to be going down this route for the umpteenth time!

All these comments about Wee Chico, does he not profess to being a St Mirren supporter? Or is that just a front? Porkies? Really? I am a Buddie myself, and as has been said before on here, the Saints were in serious bother, but got ourselves out of the brown stuff legally, by selling our old ground. So why should any club get preferential treatment simply based on the size of support? Sorry, Gers, 3rd Division next season and you'll have to work your way back from there.

EVERY DOG HAS HIS DAY .

Celtic fans get real! All your gloating comments are ridiculous and frankly cruel to the hundreds of normal, decent, hardworking people who work at Ibrox. They could quite easily lose their jobs though all of this and you think it is OK to post comments like this! Also,think what it will be like if week in, week out, all you have to go and watch is Celtic v St Johnstone, Celtic v Inverness CT, Celtic v St Mirren etc etc. Are you all honestly telling me that you wouldn't miss the Old Firm games if it came to this? Honestly? I bet the TV Execs won't be too keen to put their money into this kind of fare. Sponsorship will be affected, revenue at matches in terms of hospitality will drop steeply, the list could go on and on!

#50 (SPL Football), I am uncertain who you mean by "your lot". Yes I live and work in Manchester but follow Everton (where I moved to as a teenager). I am Scottish as I was born there and my father is a Gael from Uist (real Scottish!!!) so I like to keep an eye on Scottish football primarily for the national team and since 2008 the ever lasting hope that Rangers reap what they have sown. I work in Manchester city centre and had I not kept my wits about me that day in 2008 I might have been amongst the injured and beaten. You've illustrated my point nicely by deflecting the flak that I spoke of in post #36, albeit in an unanticipated direction. So if you care little about either side of the old firm then why take the time to read and post on this message board? I care about Scottish football and listen intently to people like David Moyes who is intelligent, thoughtful and follows Scottish football. He hasn't voiced an opinion on this yet but I'd like to know his thoughts considering he could one day manage Scotland. Will it be a Scotland without Rangers? Big question. Many hope it will be, many think it will be, many think they'll survive and from my own point of view it will not be a sad day if they and their fans have to move on to pastures new. I like McCoist though; he is quite amiable.

the really sad part of all this is even with the 10 points penalty Rangers are well clear in 2nd place.

I find Alastair Johnston position on this completely untenable. How can put the blame on the new regime when the real cause of the tax case was several years ago.

That aside, i for one would not shed any tears if Rangers go to liquidation. You made your bed, lie in it.

Lets face it the league in its current format is not worth saving anyway, this might be the impetus for really some radical reform of football in Scotland. I don't buy the argument that the rest of the clubs will topple in some kind of domino effect if Rangers fall. Of course there will be some rebalancing but life will go on..... for the rest of us

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#71 neverhadpace

I don't buy the argument that the rest of the clubs will topple
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Will it be just a case of things taking a natural order? Without the imbalance that TV revenue often brings, it'll be back to income from the turnstiles and using players you bring through yourself.

Doesn't sound so bad does it? Most of it could prove to be very competitive indeed.

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a really good blog - being outwith Glasgow, jim is able to avoid the extremes of opinion that obscure much of the debate. I am sure Celtic FC will now call for many of the titles won in the 9 in a row period and since to be declared void and for celtic to be declared champions in these years.

although rangers have been a pre-eminent club for so many years, it is amazing how poor their record is in bringing through their own players, and also in the transfer market (I exempt walter smith from this criticism)....they have been impoverished in europe and play really poor football....there is no great legacy from their dominance in recent years.

question for the Rangers supporters. How do you feel about the signing of Cousin on a reported 7.5k a week on the same day (or thereabouts) that the ordinary working folk at Ibrox or Murray park might be told that they are out of work due to the clubs Administration ?

#48,

I do think that liquidation is probably inevitable. HMRC are not going to let this go any time soon. They have too much at stake. Rangers are probably a bit of a test case as far as they are concerned.

Administration was always going to happen. The question is will they be able to work it out ? It was important that Rangers appointed their own administrator, they have a head start. Will Rangers end up as a Dundee or an Airdrie ? Depends on Whyte. Liquidation will make him a right few bob or perhaps he is a genuine fan who knew that the SDM legacy had to be removed. Place your bets.

Either way SDM's role in all this must be further investigated. Incidentally any football fan taking pleasure in all this needs to look beyond the end of their nose.

Since the news came out this afternoon we've been sitting at work talking about: The new 3 club fight for the remaining champions league slot, the fact that Rangers will be joining us 'diddy teams' and the old firm games now losing value to the point where the TV companies might prefer to see a bigger league playing each other twice. The old firm strangle hold on Scottish Football has released drastically this afternoon and for the 1st time in years I can see some long term hope for the rest of us.
Rangers must be made to pay the tax bill, I don't mind them cutting a deal over penalties but as a non old firm fan it makes me very angry that Rangers were effectively spending our money to suffocate the game.
I feel for the fans and non playing staff, good luck to them all.

JohnMac75 - stop whittling on about something that happened four years ago and using that subject when this is a completely different ball game altogether (pardon the pun). Please also stop referring to the fans as if they are all the same - a very small, infinitesimal actually, number of fans involved themselves that day so please at least give us the courtesy of acknowledging that!

#76 neverhadpace

Given that he might not actually be paid, you might aim that question at Cousin!

Sad in one way, but not in another.

For an outsider like me the decades of tribal abuse and arrogance were obvious from far away or as someone said above, what goes around comes around.

Rangers was the richest club in the world in the early 1960`s (at least it was said), now the administrator has taken charge.

It seems everything is done by those responsible for Rangers downfall have only one goal, avoiding to pay of the debt, especially to the tax man. In hard times like now, that in itself is bad enough.

HMRC will do everything possible to make it tough and quite righly so. If Rangers is going to be wound up and a new club to be formed, the club must start again at the bottom.

It might not be a bad thing for scottish football at all.

#77
Liquidation is looking a very good bet hibby because like you I really can't see HMRC backing off or now doing a deal with them.

But interesting that HMRC only went to court for monies not paid for by Whyte. Now does that mean that in this administration scenario the bigger tax case does not figure since no judgement has yet been made?

MrBlueBurns .... fair point, i didn't think of that. Altho maybe they have another vehicle to pay the players during this. No, hold on , wait a min

As bad as this is for Rangers, It has a knock on effect for Celtic too.

They've effectively won the title in February, that means no more competitive games and not a lot of interest. I expect to see near empty stadiums for the rest of the season.

And if Rangers cease to exist as they are now as Glasgow Rangers Football Club and become "Rangers 2012", would they be in the same situation as Livingstone, and be dropped to the 3rd tier of Scottish football?

If so, why not join the conference in England and rise through their league structure. If promoted year after year, they are in the premiership after 4 years.

If you're pressing the reset button, why not start again in a lucrative league?

Discuss.

There is a lot of utter nonsense being posted here. 9 titles? Rangers have won 5 titles since the EBTs were used to pay the players' salaries. It's not cheating to try and use tax planning to minimise costs but it can blow up in your face if the planning goes wrong as in the case of Rangers. However, the tax case has not been lost and even if it is that is still not cheating unless it is being suggested that Rangers officials knew the tax planning did not work but carried on regardless. That was be a criminal offence never mind cheating.

#69
You need to grow a thicker skin and realise that: the gloating does not just come from Celtic fans; that fans of other clubs have a right to gloat in the same way that many Rangers fans did throughout the 90's when you were doing your 'simply the best' thing; and that nobody is actually revelling in people losing their jobs.

No one is to blame for the current situation other than the business practices of SDM and the previous Rangers board, Craig Whyte and the current Rangers Board, fans who never really questioned where the money was coming from but trusted Sir David and representatives of supporters groups who seemed more concerned about tackling the public image of the club in debates about sectarianism, than about how the governance of their club.

#84 Willie Hmmm

If so, why not join the conference in England and rise through their league structure. If promoted year after year, they are in the premiership after 4 years.
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Now that IS an interesting angle. Is there anything to stop it or can an application to the English FA (presumably) go through?

#87 There is an issue. I can't remember the specifics but it involves a club from a different territory using another territory's places in European competition and the like. Not a problem initially of course but it has been brought up before when the Old Firm moving to England has been discussed. There's an exemption for the Welsh clubs apparently.

#87
They would have to buy the registration of a club in administration (e.g. Portsmouth), or buy over another club and go though that route of registration. I'm not sure if by buying the registration that you actually need the approval of the English FA. Its never been done before in the UK that I'm aware of but Airdrie did buy the league registration of Clydebank in the Scottish leagues and the latter were effectively put out of the game, though they now exist as a Junior club.

#88 Edinburgh_Ranger

You may be right, but, if you're only in one league at any given time, and they are registered with the territory.....

#89 Rob04

Well, again, you may be right.

But I wonder if any of the issues they may face in this scenario would actually prove to be insurmountable?

#88 - Berwick Rangers, English play in Scotland. Cardiff & Swansea, Welsh play in England.

I think the issues were that Rangers and Celtic wanted to be parachuted into the Championship, disrupting the normal course of promotion and relegation. Coming through the conference, that issue isn't an obstacle anymore.

The relaunched "Rangers 2012" buy a failing Conference registration. Voila, premiership in 4 years.

this situation is a terrible one. if we go out of business i will honestly never watch the SPL again as it is terrible as it is. our national team are gutters as well. maybe we should just pack in the football leagues, and change our national sport focus to rugby? like Ireland/ Wales. and just do as they do and send all of our best players to England, as we do anyway. our league is full of boring, skill-less players, or average foreigners- see Celtic. i think @15 is an asbsolutely stupid comment. aw, so Motherwell are in 3rd just now, how are there crowds getting on? 4,000 at the most? if Rangers leave, Celtic crowds will dwindle as they have no competition, they will stop taking a good away support as they will have the league rapped up by September, other SPL clubs will lose valuable income from OF supporters. we will lose the TV deals, as who wants to watch a top 2 deciding match of Motherwell v Celtic? all those people who say that if it wasn't for Rangers or Celtic, then our league would be much better are also stupid. it would be slightly better, but it is always Motherwell/ Hearts near the top end of the league anyway, so they would go on to dominate it. and as Rangers/ Celtic now can't even seem to do anwything in the Europa league, how will Hearts and there wealth of talent fare any better? exactly, they won't even make the group stages! i will always support Rangers, make any games when i can, buy the shirts etc etc. but anybody who thinks this will improve Scottish Football is an idiot. our game has got to a level that is so bad it is embarrassing. the only release was ours and Celtic's/ maybe Hearts games in Europe, and now even that has gone! RIP Scottish football, which has been dying a slow death, like Rangers.....

#90
The main hurdles are legal and strategic (could they do it and which level of club), and time (how long would it take to get to say the Championship or EPL and a level where you were getting a return). But why would games against the likes of Darlington be more attractive to fans than those against Motherwell?

Not sure if you could actually run two clubs simulataneously in two different legal environments (albeit both UK) and resource this on next-to-nothing monies coming in. Its one or the other but not realistically both.

The owner of Celtic Dermot Desmond however, was the guy who tried to get Dublin City into the Scottish Leagues and there was also an idea to get Wimbledon at one time to base themselves in Dublin. If anyone would try this, it just might be Dermot.

#77,

Don't think so Rob. There is no way that ' the big case ' has gone away. Whether that case would allow the revenue to challenge the impending administration would have been difficult. That there was a relatively minor issue under Whyte's stewardship would have allowed such a challenge. The judge agreed and Rangers moved quickly. They were probably expecting it.

Now I have been out of the Civil Service for over ten years and may be a bit rusty. Given the current financial situation nationally I do sense a test case. For Rangers it is going to rest on Whyte.

Does he pick up the pieces post administration with his own money or does he liquidate ? Were I a Gers fan I would be a bit anxious.

#93

Not sure about having 2 teams. Rangers A in England and Rangers B in Scotland, groundsharing Ibrox.. Hmmm What if they met in Europe?

Barca & Real Madrid have B teams in the 2nd tier of Spanish football, neither accept promotion. I assume they avoid cup competitions to avoid meeting the senior team.

But I can't see the benefit of keeping a team in a loss making league, if you have another entered in the English league structure, you would devote all resources to that.

No 15 : well put.

It has long been my view that RFC under Murray and Souness was the begining of the downward spiral for Scottish football and the national team. Buying titles like they did forced other clubs down a route of cheaper imports and shattered youth development.
With Rangers out of the equation there will be more competition, fans may return to see their teams compete and have a greater chance of winning something.

Remenber how interesting / exciting the league was in the early - late 80's with big crowds at Tannadice, Pittodrie, easter road and tynecastle, even the wee team in Dundee had decent crowds!
An era of clubs (including celtic) operating within their means may well be just what Scottish football has been crying out for.

Administration should be a last resort, not an attempt to get one over HMRC as this appears. Well done HMRC for calling Mr Whytes bluff. Rangers must not get away with this cynical, immoral if not illegal, attempt to continue to try and dodge the taxman.
We should all feel sorry for the soon to be victims such as office staff,non playing staff and local businesses.

#94
I think I would be awaiting execution!

#95
Agree Willie, its one or the other but not both.

Why is everyone so knowledgeable in the press now - I thought that a free unbaised independent press was what all the pundits called for - some of Jim Spence's points are accurate but name names of those who feared to criticise Murray - surely in the long run they would have been doing everyone a favour
In the meantime I am away to party - jelly and ice cream an absolute must this evening

#79 (Brinesy), "whittling on"? Can I ask what you mean by that? Whittling is something you do to wood. A gentleman on the forum asked me a question and I answered it with qualifications as to why I would not be unhappy to see Rangers' demise. 4 years ago I was indifferent to Rangers but their history tells a story of shame therefore my position was very valid. Looking further back my statement is further qualified by supporters' behaviour at the 1972 ECWC Final also. Infinitesimal is also a very poor description as that would indicate a number approaching zero where in fact there were hundreds on the rampage that day in Manchester. Youtube ought to confirm this as it does 1972. Therefore you will receive no such courtesy of fudged figures that aim to demonstrate a minority. I will do you the courtesy of pointing out that these behaviours over the decades do not go unnoticed by the world where Rangers strived to be a global product and failed poorly. 100 years of sectarian policy condoned by the club and fans alike didn't go unnoticed by the world. Souness commendably tried to end that but parted with the comment that it will never end particularly when the general secratary of the Rangers Supporters Association stated in public that he did not wish to see a Roman Catholic play for Rangers. There followed over 20 years of poor fiscal policy culminating in today's outcome. Had Rangers had a global following similar to Manchester Utd, Milan, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Celtic etc whose brands are not tarnished with decades of a form of apartheid then they might have had a further income. Therefore my points address this situation clearly. Yes, many of you will wish to deflect again and claim Celtic are not in the global ballpark of Manchester Utd et al but a recent trip to the far east dispelled that thought.