Weather report
Your stories are the stuff out of which iPM is made. This week, PM Listener Julie emailed in to say, "I try to listen to the radio weather forecast but find my attention drifting away so I often miss our region. Should I switch to tv forecasts?"
We asked if Julie was alone in this, and a hailstorm (with sunny patches) of comments followed. We broadcast comments from listeners Paula Walker, Roy Freeman, John Oats, Luke Ritchie, Gareth Jameson, Janice Betson, John Saunders, Jill Makinson-Sanders, Isabelle Devereux, Gloria Calloway, Matthew Bentley, Mary Jane and Justin Gray, but the final word went to listener Denis McKeown who is a cognitive psychologist researching auditory memory at the University of Leeds. You can hear the whole thing in the player below:
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Chris:
I was going to check out the link; Put, there was no link and/or URL....It was blanked space.....
=D=
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What a relief, I thought it was only me who would fail to register my area weather forecast when I had specifically tuned in to hear it.
Sad to note that there is no obvious solution to this problem.
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Hmm, I wasn't convinced by Denis McKeown's account of failure to remember the weather report. He relied on the concepts of primacy and recency effects, whereby we remember the first and last elements of a story or word list at the expense of the items in the middle. However, when we listen to the weather forecast we are not trying to remember the whole thing. It is more a problem of attention. The trick is to divide your attention between the irrelevant bits of the weather forecast and the thing you happen to be doing at the time (frying an egg, taking the cat off the curtains), and to be able to keep minimum attention on the irrelevant bits of the weather forecast. You then have to hope that you have devoted enough attention to the forecast to be able to tune in again when 'your' region is being discussed. Two practical points arise from this. First, weather forecasters could always present the regions of the country in the same order (preferably starting with Dumfries and Galloway), so you knew roughly which part of the forecast you needed to attend to. Second, they could use the same phrase at each weather forecast to describe specific regions, so instead of 'the north of the country' on Monday, 'Scotland' on Tuesday and 'Northern Ireland and Scotland' on Wednesday, they could use consistent tags for each area (e.g. "turning now to South West Scotland, it will be wet and windy..."). The phrase "turning now to South West Scotland..." will be more likely to turn my attention away from the egg in the curtain and the gently frying cat, and back to the weather forecast.
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Great! I was worried there might be something wrong with me. The only bit I can ever remember is "...and the same thing goes for Madrid".
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iPM: Weather Forecasts
We all speak of the weather in terms of current or recent experience; “all” that is apart for the forecasters. The information that most of us want is like that probably offered by the forecaster on leaving home for the office: “It’s going to get hotter or colder; wetter or drier; more windy or less…” or even “It’s likely to stay about the same”. So that’s some 10 seconds worth, or 20 seconds on a less straightforward day. What takes longer is down to location, timescale and the rate of change; dynamics best dealt with on a more specialised or local basis.
Our tradition of broadcasting national forecasts dates back to the days of two or three radio or tv channels serving the whole country and a Met. Office intent on educating viewers and listeners through an understanding of what causes the weather we experience. Nowadays the customer, i.e. the broadcaster, is king and cause has gone out of the window; leaving little more than a raft of unrelated consequences. Of course, the forecasters know all about these relationships, but to say so involves a tad more understanding than mass audiences are assumed to possess.
Yet, unlike for all other national programming, the presentations are not considered in terms of maximising appeal to the most, but of equality of appeal to all. In other words, it is assumed that the interest of most people is sustained for much of the time by discussion about the weather far away from where they live. That may have been true in Jack Scott’s day when cause, effect and relevance were embodied in the forecast, but it can no longer be true when subjectivity excludes nearly all else in the presentation.
The whole tenor of the BBC’s weather forecasting is misplaced. National forecasts seek to claim attention through simulation graphics, simpering smiles and sweeps of the hand, while actually satisfying hardly anyone. Shipping and farming forecasts involving meteorology are shunted to the less popular parts of the schedule, with only regional and internet forecasts offering accessible information relevant to weather conscious activities, services and industries.
As over 30 million people, or half the UK population, live within 100 miles or so of London, there’s an awkward demographic case for national forecasts to concentrate on this part of the country, implying little need to mention Orkney and Shetland where fewer than 45,000 live. That is unless weather extremes represent a news story or the forecasts embody some aspects of meteorology.
To preserve some integrity, BBC Weather should re-introduce cause as integral to the forecasts or save money by abandoning personalised national presentations in favour of a 30 second, graphics-led approach, such as by Channel 4. Then put more money and more intelligence into presented regional forecasts in the longer national slots so as to serve a dozen much more specific audiences at the same time. This would surely offer more satisfaction than long-winded national forecasts that aim to be all things to all men and which fail so dismally in the process.
Hugh Sheppard
(Former manager BBC TV weather forecasts).
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The Missing Link - a poem about missing the weather forecast by Doreen Fletcher, 1995, from her collection 'The Elderly Sage - Ageing Rhymes from an Ageing Lady', a Gaudin Benet book published by The Parsnip Buttery (that's me):
I'd better stop and listen as it's near five minutes to,
For if I don't I won't hear what the weather's going to do.
I need to know in order I may organise my day,
Ensuring that it's planned in the most advantageous way.
There's washing waiting to be done, involving hanging out;
The garden may need water if there's little rain about;
And there's the Fete this afternoon that's on from twelve to four -
I'd like to go, but not if all it's going to do is pour.
Oh good! It's Michael Fish this morning - such a friendly voice -
Of all the weather forecasters he'll always be my choice.
He's starting with the top of Britain, making his way down.
Scotland's weather's not too good - that's bound to cause a frown.
Some scattered sgowers about The Wash and thunderstorms in Gwent.
Now there's a place I know quite well - the many weeks I've spent
On holiday in Wales - those memories come flooding back,
Such happy times with Mum and Dad, Aunt Flo and Uncle Jack.
There was the time Aunt Flo transgressed and fell foul of the law,
And we all fell about with laughing loudly when we saw
That all that she had done was take the bit between her teeth
And race about at midnight in the streets of Pontypridd.
Of course, with due admonishing they had to let her go
And we all celebrated down a local pub...But, oh!
He's on to "outlook" now - I might have known - it's very clear
The bit I should have listened to I simply didn't hear!
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Use same format as shipping forecast. Split the UK into say 7 regions (south east, south west, midlands, north east, north west, scotland, n ireland). Always go round in the same order (say anti-clockwise from most densely populated area, i.e. south east). Give brief statements for each region on weather today, tomorrow and... that's probably about as far as the predictions can go (!) Use specific statements for each weather type without any waffle & use same order, i.e. 90% chance showers, temperature 19degC, wind 20mph.
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I agree with atomicbiscuit - follow a set pattern, beginning with the region where most people live: London and the SE, followed by Southern Central, South West etc. Sum up the weather for each region clearly and concisely and please don't tell us what weather we had yesterday or are having at the moment; we know.
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Congratulations! What a great bunch of bloggers y'all are.
I am an avid weather watcher,largely(as in the lovely poem)to best plan my activities. In common with many, I find modern forecasts frustrating,as in sympathy with the lady-blogger,I JUST WANT THE WEATHER. Also I found Hugh Sheppards contribution informative and particularly pertinent. I strongly believe that the Met office should heed his words and give serious consideration to population density forecast area's.
Also,please desist from the trend of over friendly storyfied forecasts. Further,whilst we're on the subject(knew I shouldn't have got started!)can the presenters PLEASE STOP saying how GOOD or BAD the type of weather is. Whatever the weather, it's effects for the many and various people and their pursuits,is entirely subjective!
In summary forecasts should have fewer words,key headings,greatest populace area's first and basically just the facts.
Thankyou so much for the opportunity to vent my frustration and get this off my chest! I feel so much lighter now, I'm going to float-off.
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Please can we just have regions starting from the top of the country as 1 (that will please the scots) and down to Isles of Scilly (they are never included) and then just an outdoor clothes index , because that's what we are mostly interested in , so " Region 5 mostly needing your jumper/fleece and a 60% chance of needing an umbrella or waterproof. Watch out for your umbrella turning inside out. Dog walkers will need a towel ready by the front door. Scuba divers will be unaffected"
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Twenty years ago or more the weather on radio was done properly. It still is on Long Wave, where they call it the Shipping Forecast. They read out a list of areas and for each area give the forecast in a standardised format. The listener knows that his area will be announced after, say, two minutes, and at that point he switches from background listening mode into intensive listening mode. Then, having heard the forecast for his area, he can relax and go back into background mode until the next programme item comes along at the end of the forecast.
This all changed on Radio Four when forecasters decided that they wanted to become celebrities, and John Burt decided that news and current affairs - including the weather - were just branches of entertainment. The result was the complete waste of air time which is now the weather forecast. It lets the forecasters play at being important in front of an open mic or camera, but it communicates absolutely nothing to anybody.
If there's nobody left at Radio Four who remembers the way it used to be done, they should just copy the shipping forecast.
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I too have wondered why I never remember the weather forecast, even on those rare occasions when I have made a special effort to concentrate on it.
Having read this blog I now believe that there is a definite link between this and not being able to recall anything my wife has told me.
I am not too concerned about the weather as the worst that can happen is I get wet, however with the wife...
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Imagine this. It's 06:03 and I am in at home in Newcastle - half asleep with the radio earpiece stuffed in my ear. The weather presenter says "it will be 20 degrees in Manchester, Edinburgh and Newcastle". I jerk awake at the sound of Newcastle but have missed the bit the important bit.
The solution is for the presenters to follow a standard syntax: location-temperature-conditions eg. Newcastle 28 degrees sunshine (I wish)....just like the Shipping Forecast!
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I hope that the radio forecast presenters are taking note. Order of heard language is so important when there are no visual clues.
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Feature driven reports are fine but sparsely populated areas can hog the slot when the rest of us who live in e.g. southeast would just like an identifiable section telling us what the weather forecast is for us even if its boring and not raining frogs and flattening mountains... The shipping style report may be boring, but so is kicking the wall when despite listening, we miss our couple of lines of info. AND when will the majority of the forecasters please learn that brevity is difficult but really worthwhile. The gabbled report with spits and spots and murky and brightness is not the best way of unambiguously imparting information.
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I listened with interest and I suspect with some senility and amnesia at the recent shipping forecast style weather and found it much easier to comprehend and retain the information. What a shame that it wasnt actually any more accurate the the instantly forgetable old style forecast
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I have been listening with interest to the attempts to make the weather forecast more memorable. I live in Portland, Oregon, USA and our public broadcasting station covers the whole state, not just our city. Their weather forecast encompasses all of Oregon, a state which has climates ranging from the Pacific coast, through the wine growing region of the Willamette Valley, on through the Columbia River gorge, over the Cascade mountain range and ending in the desert region of the eastern part of the state. Imagine the challenge of reporting on all of these climates within the space of a minute or so.
Frankly, I don't understand the obsession people have with the weather. It is, as they say, what it is. We can't change it; all we can do is live with it. I gave up long ago trying to follow our multi-regional weather reports, and do what I consider the most practical thing to do: I look out my window. If I am traveling into another region of the state I will try to focus on the part of the report applicable to that area, but if I miss it, I just take my chances.
So far, the devices you have tried on PM to make the weather report more memorable have been distracting. The sound effects and the accents tend to stand out more than the report itself. I suspect that the most useful format is to do the report in the same geographical order everyday. The audience will soon know at which point their local-ish weather will be reported, and if it is really important to them, they will open their ears a second or so before the report for their region. I suspect that in order to keep the peace, it would be best not to lead off with the Southeast. Don't want to seem London-centric.
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I don't understand why the weather isn't presented by a professional communicator eg a presenter or an actor. The weather people always sound slightly embarrassed to be broadcasting and so I find myself drifting off.
The only exception I remember is Susanne Charlton - she was great, sounded really enthusiastic and keen to communicate what would be useful to me as a listener. I never had any trouble remembering forecasts read by her.
So bring back Susanne!
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As a postscript, I heartily endorse the importance of order. This is also extremely important during newspaper reviews - as on BH - where the paper is named before some description of the story. By the time I have realised this is a story I would like to read, I have forgotten which newspaper it was in. (I always listen with half an ear doing other things at the same time.) Could you possibly ask newspaper reviewers to tell us the story and then let us know which paper it is in?
Thanks!
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My first contibution to a blog!! I would like to let you know that I felt the weather forecast that I remembered and enjoyed was the regional accent broadcast.
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Why does no one listen to the weather forecast?
The jolly tone, the irritating idioms (‘spits and spots’ ‘heading into the weekend’), the random choice of towns (‘15 degrees in Leeds, slightly cooler at 12 degrees in Enniskillen’, the continual doom-laden severe weather warnings in the Western Isles or Aberdeen.
Why does everyone love the shipping forecast? Because it’s poetic, factual, predictable, informative and beautiful to listen to, especially when read by Harriet Cass or Peter Jefferson.
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‘And now the National Weather Forecast issued by the Met Office at 0705 on Tuesday 19 October.
Low East Atlantic moving quickly into western coastal areas by noon tomorrow, bringing rain and brisk winds to all parts of the United Kingdom.
The detailed forecast:
HIGHLANDS
Bright at first, rain later, wind 4-5, SW, stronger early evening. 14-18.
LOWLANDS
Sunny periods, followed by showers, wind 4-5, WSW, stronger later. 14-18
CHEVIOT
Cloudy, some light rain in afternoon over hills, wind 3-4, W, 13-16.
PENNINE
Cloudy start, heavy rain from noon, wind 5, W, 12-16
BARD
Scattered showers, heavy rain later, wind 5-6, W, veering SW, 12-15
WASH
Sunny periods, light rain in afternoon, wind 5, W, 12-16
CAPITAL
Overcast, thickening cloud, heavy rain later, wind 5-6, W, 11-15
DOWNS
Fine, light cloud later, rain in coastal areas early evening, wind 5-6, SW, 13-16
BRUNEL
Light rain, heavier rain later, strong winds 6-gale 8, SW, 12-16
CYMRU
Heavy rain all day, strong winds 6-7, W, 12-15
ULSTER
Light rain, heavier rain later, wind 5-6, W veering SW, 12-14
The outlook for tomorrow:
Rain continuing, winds lessening in northern areas, remaining strong in BRUNEL and CYMRU. Temperatures below average, 12-15.
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Would it be more politically correct to shout " person overboard " instead
of " man overboard " although POB would conflict with number of persons
on board. Althoug do not think the person in the oggin would care either way, Over to you Harriet !
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Problem with radio 4 weather forecast , I keep dozing off and miss my area !
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The easiest declutter is to forgo Fahrenheit, feet & inches. Anyone who left school after 1956 knows what Celsius & millimetres are.
40 is hot enough for me, 100 makes my blood boil.
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IS IT GOING TO RAIN?
The weather forecasts are just too detailed. TOO DETAILED!
We don't need to hear the range of temperatures, such as "temperatures of 12-14, increasing to perhaps 16 later in the day", or things like "patches of rain, dying out in the west overnight".
The late BBC radio producer John Walters (or was it Arthur Smith? It was one of those regular sepulchral voices) once did a hilarious and memorable chat about weather forecasts, saying that all we needed to know was, 'is it going to rain?'.
Perhaps, like the shipping forecast, there could be a couple of daily forecasts for weather nerds and autistic savants, and the rest of it could be 15 second forecasts for the rest of us.
I mean, come on, we know roughly what it's going to be like. Even climate change won't dramatically affect the weather forecast. The plants might notice a degree or two of difference, but we won't.
Will it be warmer or colder than usual? IS IT GOING TO RAIN?
Thanks,
Andrew Denny
[Personal details removed by Moderator]
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After all this comment about weather forecasts the other week, I thought the one just before 8:00 this morning was very concise and clear. Took you through the areas of the country, told you what it was going to do, and all over in less than a minute.
It all started to go wrong when weather forecasters wanted to be interesting and inventive with their language and the florid language took over from delivering the message.
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