A twist in the expat tale.
Following our calls for tales of expat credit-crunch hardship we've been getting quite a few emails about Kaupthing Singer Friedlander, (Isle of Man) bank from British expat depositors who fear they have lost money, following the bank's collapse. More on that here.
There was also mention of banking and the Isle of Man in the Chancellor's Pre-Budget report today. Alistair Darling spoke about problems presented by Crown Dependencies
If you've experience of this issue do get in touch, it's a story we're looking at.
UPDATE I There are more comments from troubled KSF(IoM) savers on the follow up blog post here
UPDATE II: Many thanks to those of you who left comments below, particularly those who've taken the time to write at what must be a very difficult time indeed.
I'm continuing to work on the story along with my colleague Ray Furlong.
We're particularly interested in finding out more about events prior to Statutory Instrument 2674 coming into force. If you can help us with that we'd be interested in hearing from you. You can email us at ipm-at-bbc.co.uk
Comments
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Glad to see the BBC is not wearing Gordon Brown's Master of the Universe sledging against the Isle of Man. The PM story was good as far as it went, but missed a 'story within the story'. Iceland says Brown's actions scuttled Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander (KSF) and the Isle of Man government agrees -- some £550-600m of KSF Isle of Man deposits are now trapped in the UK, but Mr. Brown appears unfazed; every little bit helps -- especially given the number of lUK ocal authorities with cash lost in Icelandic banks. PM could do worse than invite representatives from Reykjavik, Douglas and London to debate the issues around the table; and just watch the fireworks explode!
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I was told to open an account in the Isle of Man by the Halifax as I had converted our lifes savings into dollars, so I did with KSF IOM 4 weeks before the actions of the british government in protecting Uk savers forced the bank I was with into provisional liquidation due to £600 million of its money being frozen.
Return our money Mr Darling and you will save myself and my family from a lifetime of hardship at your expense.
You dont need to "bail us out" just return what is rightfully ours and the Isle of Man government can offer its depositors the same level of protection you have and take great pleasure in reminding us of the fact.
You protect UK savers while destroying UK Citizens...85% of depositors in KSF IOM are your citizens.
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Thank you BBC for finally showing some interest in this sorry tale, and for highlighting the situation that a great many people find themselves in.
My wife and I are retired and live in South West France and currently stand to lose the biggest majority of our life savings as a result of the actions of the British Government in "freezing" Icelendic assets.
For some seven weeks now ALL depositors in Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander IOM, have been given scant details of what is hapenning to our hard earned (and tax paid) savings, whilst we have all (like Kate in yesterday's interview) had to find means of surviving without our money which was meant to provide an independant retirement with some dignity...
Hopefully your follow-up programme after today's liquidation hearing will manage to stir some feelings of justice amongst MP's who have simply left us depositors to "get on" with it, despite being British Citizens, and not the "fat cat" tax dodgers that people often wrongly associate with Off-Shore Bank accounts.
Thanks again for your efforts.
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My small business has 113,000 USD frozen in an account with KSF IoM.. Depositors are not asking for compensation as the Government keep suggesting. Nor are we tax dodgers as they also suggest. What we want is our half a billion quid back which was enticed into London and then seized by the FSA. With that money returned, there would be justice for the 8,000 or so British citizens caught up in this awful situation.
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Here is a variation on the above theme. My wife and I are british citizens resident in the Netherlands with some sterling in BOSI in Jersey (fully declared to the fiscal authorities). There is no protection in Jersey for savings balances even though all European Citizens are entitled to 50K euros. We cannot move our sterling as Dutch banks do not accept sterling savings (and we do not want to exchange into Euros) nor can we save in a UK mainland bank as we are not UK residents. Is it not stupid that with UK tax revenues declining and banks short of cash that british citizens cannot save in UK banks and pay the tax arising!
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(1) is a good thought, if everyone agreed to take part, which is a big if, and the story within a story is very interesting but we just didn't have time to go much beyond Katy's very moving story. But I expect this won't be the last we hear about the issue..
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This story breaks my heart. I am also a depositor and had 2 corporate accounts and a personal account with Kaupting. Being a freelance consultant and working abroad I had no option to have an offshore account in GBP like most others. My Health plan can only be paid from a bank account with a sort code for example which only falls under the UK and channel islands. And of course we all know non UK residents cannot hold uk accounts. I stand to loose around £ 250K nearly all of which is company funds. I employ an indian consultant who is 2.5 years into a 5 year period as a highly skilled worker in the EU and it is likely he will have to return to India as some of the money was in a bonus scheme for him so effectively he has worked 2.5 years for nothing. The EU residency is the second below if he has to leave. You can imagine the loss of funds for his family back in India that he is looking after.All in all I feel the UK is a disgrace and i no longer consider myself british after this episode. Gordon brown and Alistar Darling should spend less time accusing the Isle Of Man of this and that and hold up their hands to their own actions which has caused people like this poor lady in the program to be in such a position. Ironically Gordon brown is behaving like he saved the world from the financial crisis. And he did it by STEALING money from people in KSFIOM !.
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A very poor poem from a very poor man.
I was born in London. British 100%
I went to school and I went to work and paid my taxes 100%.
I sold my house to buy another.
I put the dosh in the bank - and all my savings 100%.
Not an investment bank. No sir. No credit default swaps for me.
A good bank, a triple-A rated bank. A retail bank 100%.
A bank where responsible others put more money than me.
Now I have no house, no money, just worry 100%
Limit your deposit to 50K they say, its the only way
To protect what you have saved 100%.
But how many banks do you need
To stash the cash from the sale of your home?
How many banks are there now anyway?
I am a British citizen 100%.
I’m not a terrorist. Not a tax dodger. I pay 100%
And I did not choose my bank without due care.
I’m not seeking compensation nor a bail-out.
I want my money back to where it belongs 100%.
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I am surprised to hear Mr. Darling's comment "problems presented by Crown dependencies". It seems to me, especially in the IOMs case that their problem is caused by Mr. Darling and his treasury. Hours before seizing the assets of Kaupthing UK the IOM branch deposited over 550M with them for safe keeping. There is no doubt that the FSC and FSA were aware of this and yet there is complete silence on the subject. Nobody will even discuss it. The papers relative to the seizing if the Kaupthing UK assets have been sealed and it appears in that case the reason must be to hide something.
The IOM does not want the UK to "bail them" out all it wants is to have the 550M+ it deposited back.
It is also sad that Mr. Darling and Mr. Brown have such a poor view of expats. The UK relies on exports, I first worked abroad supporting a UK companies products, if I had not the country I was in would have purchased elsewhere. Later I worked for a Saudi Arabian company and though my and another expats recommendations they purchased (and still are) millions of pounds worth of equipment annually from the UK, before much of this came from the US. An expat can bring in a huge amount of cash and employment to the UK.
Another problem which is the statement about expats opening bank accounts in the UK. On paper that may be correct but in practice it is very difficult indeed. I had a trust fund that the company recommended I cash in and re-invest. I cashed it and when I wanted the proceeds put into another of their trust funds they responded that because of my country of residence that was not possible. At the time I had an account with Fidelity International, I sent a cheque to them and although I wanted to top up my account they stated; "Due to a combination of business and regulatory reasons, we are unable to accept applications directly from clients who live in your country of residence".
After trying a couple of more savings institutions and getting similar responses I but it in my then Derbyshire IOM (now Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander IOM) account. I had little option. It does annoy me the statements from MPs saying how easy it is for an expat to open a UK account.
Until they can prove otherwise there is no doubt in my mind that the UK is responsible for the IOM problem and should accept that. The secrecy, sealed papers and dismissive statements etc.from the Treasury, Mr Brown and Mr. Darling seem to me to hide the reality.
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Finally, the BBC are taking an interest in our story! My husband and I live in Western France, but my husband continues to work in the UK - paying both tax and NI! Therefore, how can the Chancellor say we are tax dodgers - how dare he! As we no longer have an address in the UK, we were unable to open a savings account in the UK, so did lots of research to find a suitable bank. We already had 2 accounts in the IOM which are owned by the same parent bank, so didn't want to put all our eggs in one basket. The money came from an endowment policy which had finally matured in August after 25 years. It is this money we deposited with KSF - so much for saving, we might as well not have bothered! Mr Darling's illegal action in seizing the assets have put a real question mark over our plans for a comfortable retirement. Fortunately, we are not in as bad a position as many of the depositors and even if the bank goes into liquidation we should (hopefully) get all of our money back eventually. However, that is not the point. We will carry on fighting until this injustice has been rectified. We no longer feel British and have pledged that we will do everything in our power never to return! We are now planning to convert all of our sterling into Euros - even though the exchange rate is rubbish as at least the French Government guarantees the deposits of ALL its depositors! We feel totally betrayed by the British Government.
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Thank you BBC for keeping this in the light of day. As the actual collapse goes further back in history it tends to be forgotten about. However there are still several thousand depositors who have lost their cash, many who were relying totally on the interest to live on. Personally I was saving to buy a house back in the UK for my retirement (like the majority of the depositors I am a British citizen) which will now not happen. It looks like we wil lnow have to wait until at least the end of January for anything at all. The blame for this is being laid firmly on the UK Government for its intervention in KSF UK under anti-terrorist laws. Most of peoples savings are currently locked up in the UK.
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I am an retired RAF officer who has lost half of my life savings - not as bad as some, but terrible for me and my wife. I pay tax on my UK RAF pension and only banked in the Isle of Man as it is not possible to open a UK BANK account when you are living overseas.
If the bank had gone bust due to incompetence, it would not be so bad, but it was fully funded and all the depositors' money was in the UK branch. This was effectively stolen by the UK Government. We orginally had our savings with the Derbyshire Building Society IOM and only after assurances from the Derbyshire when they sold the offshore savings to Kaupthing did we keep it there. This problem is solely down to the actions of the UK government who have decided to attack offshore savings and have no interest in the well being of UK citizens who are retired abroad.
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We are asking for one thing: the principle of equitable and fair treatment for ALL victims of this extraordinary breakdown of the banking system.
The lack of a permanent UK address means one is denied the opportunity to open accounts in a UK Bank or Building Society. My British-born sons who study at UK universities suffer the same problem, and are forced to pay a premium to the High St. Banks for the privilege of opening a current account.
Any interest in my accounts in my (ex Derbyshire Offshore) KS&F accounts has been subjected to the withholding tax.
Please tell me what I did wrong, and why I and others deserve this discriminatory treatment?
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My wife and I have worked very hard to pay off my mortgate by the age of 42. March 2008 I had an offer to work and live in New Zealand for one year, this meant leaving the oil company I worked for and taking a carreer break. We have two young children so we decided to give it a go before they reached school age. Our home in Poole was sold in june and off we went to talk to a financial adviser.Our only stipulation was that we wanted to put our money somewhere safe for one year, NO RISK, as it was the famliy home. the advise given was to put it into a Bond through the Prudential with KFS in the Isle of man. In the space of six months we have gone from having no debt and owning our home to been on the other side of the world isolated and potentially losing everything. The Prudentials glossy brochures have phone numbers that don't ring and blame the Advisers for our predicerment when they actually hold the account with KSF, which I guess means that if there is compensation it goes to them and not us, Can anyone shine any light on this?
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For 25 years I taught in comprehensive schools in Merseyside; fifteen years ago I came to France with my family and have worked in the French state education system. When in 2006 I received my UK teacher's pension I put the lump sum (£15,000) in the Derbyshire Building Society but had no choice but to put it in their IOM branch as I don't have a UK address.
Kaupthing bought out the Derbyshire a year ago and now I have lost all my money (the IOM depositor's scheme turns out to be little more than a whip-round on Douglas High street).
The important point that I am a British citizen and a UK tax payer (on my teacher's pension). I am NOT a tax avoider. Why am I paying taxes to a government which doesn't represent me in this matter? A wider point is why can't UK citizens who live abroad have a savings account within the UK? A much better solution all-round I would have thought.
The vast majority of Kaupthing depositors are UK tax payers who did not choose the IOM because it was a "tax haven" they had no choice in the matter.
Surely the Icelandic, UK and IOM governments can find a solution to this problem?
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After a half a lifetime of working abroad and saving for our retirement we finally retired to UK having set up a savings bond with Skandia in Isle of Man to provide a pension. Within a few months of depositing a good slice of our savings into a one year deposit with Kaupthing Bank (Isle of Man) under our Skandia bond, we found that the UK government has plundered our money. So much for careful saving and sensible investment for a pension.
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In August I put money into KS&F bank as promoted in the weekly bank rate league tables in the business section of the Weekly Telegraph. These weekly league tables are provided by moneyfacts.co.uk.
Since October I have no access to that money, which represents our life savings and includes the sale of our house in the UK.
Press articles suggests that government action has frozen Icelandic assets which may have helped the bank to crash and is now impeding access to our money.
Naturally I wish your program to unravel and communicate what on earth is going on. Does this mean I have to take the British Government to court to get my money back ?
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Compared to most depositors in KSF(IOM) I have a small amount to lose. The two reasons I went to the IOM are (i) my savings exceeded the then £35.000 limit for security, and (ii) not having a UK address, I was unable to open a new account with a UK based bank.
Consequently I went to KSF(IOM) which was highly recommended by various money/savings websites in July and August 08. I retired to France just one year ago having spent all my working life paying into the UK tax system and am still paying tax to the UK on a very very small pension.
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A lot of people get very focused on the "I'm British" thing, as if that should make a difference.
My mum moved to England as a political exile, wanted by the Portuguese regime in the mid 1960s. She settled, learned English, took a librarianship course and had a career working for the ILEA.
Since retirement she moved back to Portugal, and was told she could not open a UK savings account to deposit her £30,000 savings once her house sale/purchase had all cleared - she deposited the money in the Derbyshire building society - a name she respected and trusted.
When she got a letter from KSF, which incidentally she thought was a German bank, telling her the account was transferring to them (no choice in the matter), she didn't like the tone and felt like moving the money out - but had no options to do so living in Portugal.
What a mistake she made. She never even knew her money was in an Icelandic bank, let alone that it might be at risk.
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I'd like to add my thanks to the BBC for picking up this story - it's good to know that someone's prepared to listen!
We are another couple (tax-payers in France) who have fallen foul of the dodgy dealings relating to the KSF funds that were shunted into the UK, and now appear to be trapped there. As others have stated, the legal documents have the sealed and we get no information whatsoever about what is rightfully ours.
In our case it's my wife's modest savings that have "evaporated". Like others who had accounts with KSF, her savings had previously been with Derbyshire IOM until they were moved to KSF a few months ago - a bank which we were assured at the time was rock solid!
UK news in recent days has revealed several disturbing facets of the UK Government's approach to law and order. Their highly questionable attitude to the KSF issue appears to be yet another arrogant and callous rejection of people's rights. It's time Messrs Brown and Darling were called to account!
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A number of years ago my late father opened an account at the Derbyshire for my son - since then, all my son's birthday and Christmas presents have been paid into that account. Since we live abroad we were advised we should transfer the account to the Derbyshire Offshore. Almost a year ago we were informed that the Derbyshire Offshore had been sold to Kaupthing - and my son's account with it. At the time, the Derbyshire told us that Kaupthing was a safe bank and there was nothing to worry about. We now know that this was not true and it seems probable that it will be difficult for him to reclaim all this money. Clearly, my son does not own a fortune, but my late father opened this account intending that it should help my son start up in life. It's hardly fair that, through no fault of his own - and apparently due to the use of anti-terrorist legislation by the UK government -, he should lose his money.
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My wife and I sold the business we had built over 30 years and through which we have paid out due taxes to the Government
We live, and have always lived, in Manchester, over the years we have placed money into a small SIP which, on the advice of our FA, invested 200,000 pounds in a scheme run by Scottish Equitable and which our FA advised, in July 98, purchasing a 100,000 pound bond in KSF(IOM). We have no need of a special tax rate as the SIP is exempt, the investment was basd on the slightly higher rate of return on the bond.
We are in our sixties this has caused us real problems.. what did we do wrong, there has to be an equitable solution.
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My husband and I deposited £100,000 in Royal Skandia to KSF iom. We were advised to do this by a financial advisor who is regulated by the uk goverment we were very risk adverse, as this is our savings. We paid £66,000 tax to the uk goverment on this sum, we are uk residents, uk tax payers. We have since found out that our money was deposited into a bond with Royal Scandia, so therefore we are not the depositor, the financial advisor who works for RBS/Natwest so we are only entitiled to a share of the £20,000 compensation that is to be divided between all the bond holders. Never once were we ever told that this was the case. We just want our money back it does not belong to the uk goverment its ours. The uk goverment on one hand want nothing to do with this but they are the ones who have litterally stolen the money from a country that they want nothing to do with.
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Want to know what the fallout of the UK Government's incompetency and inaction is? Easy, lives will be lost. You not take a lot of people’s life’s savings away without repercussions.
On 7th Oct 2008, we were a very close, happy, care free, loving and hard working family. We had just moved to Australia as we considered the UK 'full' and wanted to raise kids in a rural environment without the massive mortgage we'd have to pay for the privilege on the UK mainland.
In moving to Australia, a process taking four years, we brought just enough money to get us started (car, rental deposit, few weeks living expenses etc...) before I got work. The rest of our money - savings, day-to-day monies, etc - was in a number of banking institutions. However, despite Mr Pearson's, MP, misleading comments to Parliament that UK citizens with no mainland address can easily have onshore accounts, we were forced to close the accounts when we tried to change our address from the old UK one to our new Australian one; the Bradford and Bingley even posted a cheque to us here (unrecorded and very very insecure! That a banking institution did that made us very angry). As the UK obviously didnt want our money we decided to bring everything over here to Australia. To be able to do this we had to open an account with a 'offshore' bank. KSF (IoM) seemed the safest bet as it had a parental guarantee - whereby its parent bank would 'bail it out' - to cover any problems.
On 28th Sept 2008 we transferred all our money from the UK accounts that were being forcibly closed into the KSF 'current' account ready to be transferred. On 8th October 2008 (as soon as the last cheque paid in cleared), I phoned KSF to ensure I could do a telegraphic transfer to the currency exchange company. With the thumbs up from KSF and I bought approx £150K worth of Australian dollars and instructed KSF to transfer the money to the exchange company.
Of course, the transfer never happened as the UK Government had ensured the bank could no longer function. The first we knew of a problem was when the exchanged funds did not arrive in our Australian account and emails from the exchange company asked where the money to pay for the exchange was. Since then life has entirely collapsed.
For the first couple of weeks, neighbours helped out with food and basics. As time dragged on we were forced to feed the family from supermarket bins etc... The rental company helped by giving us a months grace on our rental payments but 3 weeks ago we were forced to leave. My visa requirements depended on the £150K assets and so i was now in breach of those requirements, with no home and penniless. The stress on the family was heartbreaking and inevitably we slowly fell apart.
Now, i am illegally on the streets of Australia. My family is far away with communication very difficult when you have no money. I eat from a Salvo soup kitchen and sometimes stay at a homeless shelter for men. Mostly (luckily its early summer and warm here at night) I just kip down in quiet spots. No other way to look at it, I AM a tramp now and it is due to the actions of the UK Government.
When there are traumatic events where Brits are involved the UK Government is always on hand offering counseling, repatriation flights etc.... Why has the UK Government just disowned us completely? I sent many many letters to MPs; 99.9% (if they replied at all) just said 'tough, wrong postcode'. Some were genuinely helpful (Lib Dems funnily enough, Labour and Conservative's generally couldn’t give a damn).
So what happens now? A few personal, and near tragic, events occurred in the past 7 weeks due to this. The result is that we very much doubt the family will ever be able to be the same again. The money no longer matters, the harm has been done; in just two months I have gone from a hard working skilled person with a very close and happy family, to a tramp in a foreign country. Thanks Brown Darling.
Many thanks to the Internet Café owner for giving me an hour online to write this and send emails to family and friends. There are some genuinely kind people still in the world.
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I moved to France (to get married) in 1986 and my UK bank said I had to move my savings off-shore, and I went to Singer and Friedlander. I think I picked them up from an advertisement in the old BBC On Air magazine. When my Belgian husband and I moved back to the UK in 2000 we found we could not hold Euros with our UK bank (LloydsTSB), so we kept our Euro savings (which we need to pay for things in France) at the off-shore bank. I was in France in October when I saw all the news about Kaupthing and, recognising the name from the bank statements, tried out my card in an ATM. It didn't work, and I gradually realised that we have probably lost Euro 55 thousand, as the guarentee from the IOM government does not seem to be backed by any funding.
It seems dreadfully unfair when we have always been cautious investors, but our case pales besides some of the stories I read on a KSF forum. The worst, I felt, concerned the compensation set up to support a disabled child. In some cases, wealth can mean almost much as body and health. There is real suffering here.
So, I would be very pleased to see the BBC helping to bring this to the notice of the UK government.
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The saddest part of the whole saga is that it has proven there are some genuinely nasty and heartless people in Britain.
I have been verbally attacked as a whinger, a tax dodger, a fat cat getting his comeuppance and in one case 'a pathetic scrounger'.
Obviously, i am none of the above. The £151000 that the UK Government took from us had taken 25 years to save, 100% of all tax due was paid, it was ALL the money in the world we had (no other savings, investments nothing - that was the whole damn lot) and we had been forced (take note Mr Ian Pearson MP, that is despite you misleading Parliament in your 'not our fault we dont give a damn, they didnt have to have their money there' hogwash).
Britain, you get the Government you deserve. And boy do you deserve this one. I may be on the streets here, but at least i'm not in the UK.
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Thanks for highlighting this issue. I've been working in the Pacific for more than a decade in development work, and saving at home in the Derbyshire, Isle of Man. I also sold a small terrace house, and put the proceeds in the Derbyshire. I intended the money as a pension and to buy a house when I settled. I fell in love with an Australian and we decided to marry. Everything happened at once - Kaupthing took over the Derbyshire, and my present contract finished. Suddenly the crisis hit and when the UK government used the anti-terrorist laws it took everything I had. Now I have no pension, no house, and little to live on. When Alistair Darling describes people in my position as some kind of fat cat tax evaders, the injustice is very frustrating and disappointing. Please continue to press the government to act more responsibly towards Kaupthing depositors.
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I am not an ex-pat but share their distress. My wife and I are UK citizens and have worked and paid taxes in the UK before retiring. We deposited cash in three legitimate Offshore Bonds (Zurich, CMI and Aegon Scottish Equitable) based in the IoM. All three approved investment in KSF(IoM). We note that the media, BBC included, say that the IoM compensation scheme covers us for £50k but this in NOT the case, only cover is if the Bond companies holding the investments themselves fail and even then it is shared among ALL the bond holders, a tiny sum for each investor. There seems to be a conspiracy of silence on the whole KSF(IoM) issue, even the KSF UK liquidators have been given instructions they cannot share with the KSF(IoM) liquidator provisonal. The proceeds of two lifetimes' work are now in limbo or lost and no-one is communicating with us! We believe (from the Depositors Action Group) that the IoM Bank transferred £550 million to KSF (UK) and do not understand why this can not be returned to them to pay out all those who have lost their money through no fault of their own. Importantly we have paid tax on the Bonds on a notional rate of return (5%) which is higher than they have achieved, as required by the UK Government. We believe this is a major scandal and will support in any way possible the BBC's interest in the story.
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Firstly thanks for the BBC and those agencies brave enough to keep pressure on the British Gov, who as far as it appears are holding our money from the ksf bank in the iom, held in its uk mainland branch. Many different people and circumstances abound. Me - born in 1957 in Britain, well Yorkshire and up to recently proud to be so called. Mum worked as telephonist, Dad joined fire service at 14yrs old. At 18 into infantry did all the usual, now forgotton war stuff like the battle at
anzio for Rome. Back into a lifetime of public service in fire service till heart attack brought his 35+ years service to an abrupt halt. I spent last 12 years of his life helping care for him, while also caring for a mum with dementia, she died recently in a secure unit from Atzhiemers. I started work (and taxation!) in 1975,training in service as a librarian. 1st husband and i built a business from kitchen table and 80+hr weeks, employing 30 people - but at a cost of marriage, health, and losing business to ex husband. My best friends parents moved to isle of man when we were primary school age so i had spent summer hols for many years on island - it was already my 2nd home. I moved here- a sort of Yorkshire Dales with sea around - fell in love with Manx man, so stayed - clearly 1st and 2nd mistakes! He was made redundant shortly after marriage so guess what, helped him start, build and get running building company employing and sub-contracting workers - now he has walked out, 10 days before my 50th birthday-3rd kick in the gut. I must have saved public coffers a lot of dosh by caring for parents, then all their sale proceeds of house and savings eventually
went on Mums nursing home fees. I never did inherit anything from them, all those years they went without and lived a make do and mend, sometimes quite sad and hard existance. I must have paid a good chunk of tax+NI over working life, as well as being instrumental in being a employer. I have never had children so i guess thats saved the country a bob or two on education etc. In preparation for impending divorce i put money sorted out for my future into my bank ksf. This was/is my local bank. I joined it with a good reputation, good staff, good balance sheet and good parking! It held my cheque book and savings-ive always been some what careful and boring with money not being greedy or speculative. Incidentally last cheque i wrote was for my Mums funeral expenses. I can tell you now if that had bounced, and almost did, then Mr Darling would have wished himself to be living in, shall we say ,exile in maybe Iceland, out of my grasp! So im British, always paid due taxes, come from a pretty average hard working and fair playing background, who lives due to marriage to a Manx man here on isle of man, a British DEPENDANCY. I was left literally with £8.00 in my purse, so surreal it took days to sink in. Ive been loaned some cash by ex husband + friends ,but i have nothing and no one now. If i move back to uk i will be DEPENDANT on state and have to say if that is the case i will make the best of it. Hard work, honesty and self sufficiency just dont seem worth the effort. Myself and those taken down want our money back from the frozen waste land, not of iceland, but Alaister Darlings heart. I am more than happy for you to publish my email if anyone else at wits end wants to get in touch. Thank you.
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I too feel totally betrayed by the UK Govt. It was they who put Kaupthing UK into administration, effectively freezing the £550 million of our money deposited there by Kaupthing Isle of Man. This resulted in the collapse of KSFIoM which up to that point had been solvent. So we depositors are suffering as a direct result of UK Govt action.
At first my reaction was one of disbelief : how can a triple A-rated North European bank collapse with the loss of all my savings? Then, after learning more of the details, I was quietly confident : surely Messrs. Brown and Darling would recognise that they had a moral it not legal duty to save us from the unjust situation they had inadvertently placed us in. (As a teacher in Paris I always used to talk to my students about the British notion of 'fair play'!) But no. Seven weeks on and all they will say is that it is a problem for the IoM Govt to deal with and it has nothing to do with them! (But the IoM Compensation is wholly inadequate because it only covers deposits up to £50,000 and is as yet unfunded!) So now I am beginning to be angry. Gone is the money I inherited from my parents - their life savings -and gone my hope of buying a retirement home in the UK. I put my money in KSFIOM because I was reassured by the parental guarantee from Kaupthing Iceland. But the UK Govt., which represents IoM in international matters, does not seem to have put pressure on Iceland, now owner of the bank, to honour that guarantee. It seems that British expats do not count because they don't have a local MP and don't vote.
I for one will never give up because I cannot accept injustice : we have done nothing wrong, we are not tax dodgers (as a EU resident, I pay tax in compliance with the European Savings Directive) and we find ourselves in this unfair situation through no fault of our own.
Thank you the BBC for taking an interest in our plight and giving us a voice.
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My husband and I live in Spain and were unable to open an account in the UK without a UK address. We chose the "safety" of the Derbyshire Building Society for our savings of over 20000 pounds only to see it taken over by Kaupthing last year. We are not tax dodgers - my husband has paid UK tax every year for the past 46 years, as have I when working. Moreover we declared our IOM interest payments as required under EU law.
Re sovereignty - if, say, the Irish were to take over the Isle of Man a la Falklands, would HMG be so ready to disavow its remit over the Crown Territory?
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Re KSF Isle of Man
Sir, As a British ex-pat who cannot open an an account in UK , not having a UK address the Govt forced me to open an account off shore. To keep it British I opened my Derbyshire account 3 years ago. Boring but safe, UNTIL the crooks of Iceland bank KSF took it over ran it out of money and crashed. Everyone else it getting help, but what about the hard working Brits who put their money in?. The labour party and Darling helped everyone else, but the very small minority of people who had their money there are stranded. There is never any problem coughing up hundreds and hundreds of millions for foreign aid, spurious compensation claims from goodness knows what foreigner, but when it comes to genuine British tax payers---yes I have paid tax for 20 years and as soon as I get back to UKwill pay again--so why are we being left out?? The Labour party is demonstrating it truly is the party of envy and class dicrimination and pure nastiness when it comes to decent people trying to save for their old age and not be a burden on the state. Shame on you Labour party. Petev Mac
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For me this is the tragedy of of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am recently divorced and had simply sold house which was my divorce settlement. I placed it in the Kaupthing IOM only a few weeks before the bank was closed down. I was going to buy a house in the US to be with my son while he attended University there.
The other portion I was going to invest back in the UK in hope that the it will support me. This money is to support me for the rest of my life. I have no work experience as I was a homemaker during all the 22 years of my marriage. My ex-husband is a tax paying British citizen, both my children are British citizens and I am a naturalised Bristish citizen having lived in the Uk for over 22 years.
This is all the money I have in the world. what really infuriates me the most is that I learned that Alistar Darling caused the freezing of the accounts in KaupthingIOM even though the bank insisted over and over again that they had more than enough liquidity to cover all accounts. and I believe this is true
The whole situation is extrordinarily unfair and almost criminal. Regular citizens like myself whether born British citizens or Naturalised British citizens should not be penalised just for trying to mangage their money to get the best return. I haven't broken any laws, I pay my taxes. this is my life's savings. I don't know how Mr. Brown or Mr Darling can sleep at night knowing that so many of us regular citizens are under considerable distress because of this situation. My life's saving are frozen....and I feel like I am frozen. I don't know what will happen to me if I lose this money. Please please release give me my money back.
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Comments: Expatriate and Kaupthing Friedland & Singer IoM investor.
I am writing to thank you for your support by raising awareness of this travesty. As a retired UK citizen who has his life savings invested in this bank and is facing a huge loss which could culminate in poverty during what could be a very long wait while the legal system grinds its way through this financial jungle.
I retired early (62) after working hard and paying taxes continuously in the UK (London W13 8HG) for 50 years without receiving any benefit payments.
I am now living abroad in the Philippines but still paying UK taxes and providing my own medical & health care which is a considerable saving to the UK Health Service.
I invested my money offshore originally with The Derbyshire IoM (which was later taken over by KSF) because of restrictions for non residents regarding UK bank accounts.
I am still only 63 so do not yet qualify for a pension and am living on my savings not state handouts.
I came to the Philippines because the weather is good and the cost of living is low and you can afford to live your retirement in some dignity. This kind of banking fiasco is something you might expect in the Philippines and why I didn't put my money in a bank here, how wrong can you be.
I think it is absolutely shameful that reckless UK banks are bailed out whilst some UK citizen's who jnvested in a Crown Dependency are not given any support, in fact it is also possible that the UK government is implicated in the collapse of this bank.
There are many unanswered questions in this affair, the sealed court papers, our missing £550 million, Likely value of asset book of KSF UK etc etc etc.
The Isle of Man is after all a Crown Dependency and as it is a possession of the British Crown it is not a sovereign nation in its own right, and the power to pass legislation affecting the islands rests ultimately with their own legislative assemblies, with the assent of the Crown (Privy Council).
I would be most grateful if you could raise awareness of this for us KSF investors and also try to discover the truth regarding the governments involvement in this.
The financial status and links to the UK of the the Isle of Man and other offshore Crown Dependencies is clearly a matter which needs clarifying for future investors.
Please keep this help me and other KSF investors to get back our life savings
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From having modest security due to savings from a property sale in UK, that I deposited in KSFIOM, while I live in Thailand and work at a local university, I've been hit with very precarious circumstances. Deprived of my savings, I now only have my small local salary which is down to zero before the end of each month.
I checked out an accident insurance plan the other day, but thought better of it when discovering that while a dog bite may be considered an accident, a mosquito bite that happened to carry malaria would not be. God help me now if I come down with anything like this! My plan was not to have to use insurance deals; to simply support myself in the case of accident and ill health and eke out my savings through retirement in a few years time.
Life in the UK had always been miserable, but I thought that finally I had found myself a reasonable situation. This KSFIOM debacle is no fault of any of the account-holders, but we are the collateral damage of what appears to have been a knee-jerk reaction to a certain aspect of the financial crisis. If the Treasury had really been interested in British people, it would have foreseen these dire consequences, and safeguarded us against them.
It's not too late though; it's just a matter of returning some 550million GBP, at present held in KSF UK, to its rightful owner KSFIOM on the Isle of Man. Other governments, including the UK's, are protecting their citizens at this time, but it would seem that the UK Treasury is intent on ostracizing a certain sector of its own. If it's the tax-dodging argument, that's patent rubbish. Check out the ksfiomdepositors website to see the kind of folk affected by this.
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Having been made redundant at the age of 52 and been compelled to find work overseas I have spent the last 14 years working and saving the majority of my earnings towards retirement with Derbyshire Building Society Isle of Man.
(Even though I am a British citizen as I have been working and living out of the country in excess of one tax year I am not permitted to hold a bank account in mainland UK).
Derbyshire Isle of Man were taken over around a year ago by Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander. I recieved no caveat that this bank was an Icelandic bank nor that the Icelandic economy was apparently known by the British government, even at that time, to be in trouble.
In October of this year Kaupthing Isle of Man went into receivership, apparently as a result of the British government freezing all Icelandic banks' assets on the UK mainland where Kaupthing Isle of Man's assets wer deposited (several hundred million pounds).
Even though Kaupthing Isle of Man were solvent the action of the British government resulted in their demise.
It seems to me. therefore, that the British government has, effectively, stolen the savings I had deposited in Kaupthing Isle of Man.
I am aware that the receiver is attempting to make the best of a bad job and that the IOM has a deposit protection scheme in place but I am afraid that I am sceptical of either of these resulting in a full return of my savings and certainly not in the near future.
Both the British and Icelandic governments appear to be prepared to walk away from this debacle and leave depositers with saving in KPF high and dry.
This will leave me, and I am sure many others, effectively destitute at the very time in life when they have no means of recovering.
So far as I am concerned the current attitides of the British and Icelandic governments places these countries places these countries firmly in the category of pariah states.
I do not understand why the British government does not place a higher priority on helping those of its genuine citizens who have been prepared to put themselves out to help themselves rather than wasting countless billions on wothless projects whose objective appears to be concentrated on keeping them in power.
I consider myself to have been betrayed on many fronts, notably by the government of my own country.
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Thank you BBC for offering to investigate this KSF IOM fiasco, which comes neatly within the scope of the Media where Opposition politicians have so far failed to help undo the mess.
I am British, working in Singapore. I sold my house in Reading to prepare for my retirement and deposited the proceeds into the Derbyshire Bldg Soc. The chosen branch was in the IOM which accepted my Singapore address as proof of identity (UK branches don’t accept it). I chose Derbyshire as its reputation is good and they promised that their UK company would guarantee 100% of deposits in the IOM.
A year ago KSF bought Derbyshire. It appeared to be a sound bank with interests through Europe with a guarantee that 100% of deposits would be honoured. Then my three deposits totalling over GBP150,000 were frozen due to outside forces. I am told the IOM branch was solvent prior to that and would be able to repay the deposits were it not for a huge sum finding itself switched to, then frozen, in the UK.
It sounds simple to me that all that needs to be done is for the UK frozen funds to be remitted back to KSF IOM and then the bank can resume normal operations. Who has the authority to authorise this and why is it not done? Taxpayers’ money is not involved.
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We had an onshore unit trust account at Standard Life which we closed owing to concerns over the economy. Standard Life told us that they were unable to transfer money to a foreign bank. However, it was impossible for us to open a domestic bank account in the UK despite my wife and I both being UK citizens (we currently live in Singapore).
However, as Kaupthing IoM had a UK sort code number and was a member of the British clearing system, they permitted us to transfer our money there.
The double standards that have arisen in this scandal are amazing. Clearly, the UK Govt has no knowledge about how the domestic banking system works and for a country whose history and economy has been built upon the willingness of its citizens to work and create wealth abroad, it is shocking that how easily they have been dismissed.
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I am a 41 year old female currently working in the Middle East. My original savings account was with the Derbyshire which was then taken over by KFSIOM. I have never gambled with my savings nor placed my money at risk – preferring instead to take the “safe” option - my savings were held in a low interest, instant access account. Living in the Middle East has not always been safe or easy (especially being female) but I have preserved in order to obtain some sort of financial security. All this only to have the British Government steal my life’s savings. These people should be thoroughly ashamed of their actions. Like many others, I am not asking the Government for a bailout of any kind. I am only asking them to return my stolen money!
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Dear bbc
Two and a half years ago my husband was made redundant in the uk, after many months of searching for employment and the fact that he could not claim unemplyment benefit due to savings he decided to take up the only job offer offered that being in the middle east.It was hard to leave so we left, we also left our savings plus proceeds of a house sale in uk bank accounts. When the financial crisis arose my husband worried so he approached a well known firm of financial advisers who told him to be protected he should invest in the isle of man in a bond. WE were given many many assurances that it was safe, that was the cause of the transfer. We were given aaa ratings of the icleandice banks what else did we want. our nightmare began on the 8th oct, our funds were in there for one day just one day ,weve paid taxes all our lives and carry on doing so, all we went away for was a job, just a job and this is what happened to us.
please help uswe stand to lose everything.
sincerely
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Dear Sir
I sadly am one of those with life savings deposited in the Kaupthing bank in the Isle of Man, the Bank which was brought down by the knee jerk reaction of Gordon Brown….who says no British saver will lose…wrong!! I am British and I stand to lose every penny I have in the world….and to use “terrorism” as an excuse!!!! Its appalling and insulting.
I moved from Reedham, Norfolk to Sri Lanka to retire in 2004 and settled down to what I thought would be a quiet life. I built my dream home on the beach...completed it December 23rd 2004. We all know what happened next. On December 26th there was the Tsunasmi...everything was devastated including my beautiful new home and my village. I almost lost my life but I was one of the lucky ones. I survived. I pulled myself together and started all over again.
One aftermath of the tsunami was homeless pets so I started taking in stray dogs. Now I have more than 70...its a lot of work to keep them well fed and healthy but I manage because I used, until a few days ago, the interest off my lifes savings to support us.
Of course, you can guess what happened next...I was banking with Singer and Friedlander in the Isle of Man!! I had been with them through a range of name changes etc for over 20 years…they used to have an office in Manchester. I trusted them.
When I heard the stories but was told that everything was backed by "a parental guarantee" I was concened, so I arranged to transfer all my savings to Sri Lanka. The transfer was personally confirmed that everything had been transferred on Tuesday, I was thankful , especially when a couple of days later, the bank collapsed…but…all transfers from IOM were frozen when they reached the Clearing Bank in London.. Sadly, this also affects cash machines …I cannot get any cash to live on…
Now I am here with no money except enough for this weeks food. Then what???? How do i live and feed more than 70 dogs. What is the future with no pension and no security…do I beg money for an air ticket back to the UK and then live the rest of my life on “welfare?”
I had almost 190,000 Sterling pounds with the Isle of Man Singer and Friedlander...no pension...just that. Its my life savings.
Its held somewhere in limbo and I am just praying that a way can be found to release the savings of thousands of people like myself who didn’t waste their money, but saved diligently in a Bank!!!
There are thousands of people like me who worked hard all their lives and saved diligently and prudently….all of us paid tax most of our lives in the UK!!!
Gordon Brown has frozen us on a block of ice. Its criminal. PLEASE HELP TO RELEASE OUR MONEY!!!!
Barbara Segal
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I'm a British Citizen.
Educated in British schools, colleges and universities.
Ex-National Serviceman (1955-57).
I've been teaching and teacher training in the UK and overseas (on behalf of the UK government) for 50 years!
I have four British children.
I have tried to save all my life.
One country that I worked in was Mauritius. When I retired we came to here as it is cheaper than the UK.
We pay tax on my small OAP.
We put all our life savings into the Derbyshire B.S. to give us a few extras in life.
NOW THIS!!
My children and grand children will have a few less presents for Christmas this year.
Sleep well Mr. B. and Mr. D...
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My wife and I are British teachers in International Schools. We are paid in dollars and sometimes euros. As such an ordinary mainland bank could not deal with us. We pay tax. We put the money that our parents left us and most of our savings in the Derbyshire Isle of Man as it was guaranteed by the Derbyshire. We are normal people. We are paying our son and daughter through university and were planning on a comfortable retirement. We have never wasted money. We have always save. Never had flash cars, flash clothes or fancy holidays. Now we fear we have lost it al because of the immorality of a UK government who freezes Icelandic assets in the UK and thus causes the collapse of our bank but now refuse to order the return of the deposits. Meanwhile when they nationalised Bradford and Bingley they guaranteed their Isle of Man deposits. It is inconsistent and immoral and ordinary peopl are left with their lives ruined.
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i am a Uk citizen and taxpayer currently teaching at a university in UAE
one perk of working abroad is that you don't actually have to pay UK tax on overseas eearnings
this is not tax avoidance, the tax authorities allow this, its perfectly legal, it compensates us for slightly lower salaries and higher expenses
one consequence of this is that most expats have to put their savings into an offshore account so that the interest is not earned in Uk and liable for tax
(in my view this is totally unneccessary, we should be able to leave the money in our UK bank)
anyway most of us choose an isle of man or Channel islands bank usually a branch of our UK bank
the irony is that the offshore bank usually sends the money straight back to the mainland branch, in other words the offshore branches are just collecting cash from expats..to be invested by the main Uk branch!
as i said...totally unneccessary
in early 2008 expats were being urged by all the finacial pundits and websites to put their savings in the icelandic banks because they offered good rates of interest
one such bank is Kaupthing which has branches in many countries..UK, isle of man, as well as the main parent bank in Iceland
i had just sold my house so i put my money in the isle of man branch of Kaupthing
when the media was full of problems with iceland banks in the summer I contacted kaupthing and was reassured that the bank was fine...in fact this is true, the bank was fine with no dodgy loans and a very strong cash base
In October having seized the assets of another Iceland bank, Landsbanski, under anti-terrorism laws, the chancellor said publicly Iceland banks would not support their branches in other countries...this led to "run" on the UK branch of Kaupthing, it didn't have enough cash and it was taken into receivership by the financial authorities..but all its retail depositors were secured by a guarantee from the UK government
The chanceller has since been challenged to show the evidence on which he made this hugely damaging (and apparently unfounded) statement
unfortunately a large proportion of the assets of kaupthing isle of man branch (GBP550 million out of a total of about GBP850 million) had been placed with kaupthing Uk for "safe-keeping"
these assets were frozen by the receiver at kaupthing Uk
this meant that Kaupthing isle of man could no longer function as a bank and was put in provisional liquidation by the financial regulator on the isle of man
none of the depositiors in kaupthing isle of man have been able to access their accounts since then (8 October)
more than 2000 depositors are registered with the Depositors Action Group website with total deposits of about GBP850 million
many are now in dire financial trouble..
and the worry and anxiety is horrendous
Kaupthing isle of man did not go bust..it was a successful bank..it was caught up in action taken by HM treasury against Icelandic banks..
it was not given any warning that its funds were going to be locked up
there is now argument over who owns the GBP550 million
it is not clear what will happen to my money or that of the other depositors
will we get it back..when and how much will be left?
Other governments have stepped in to guarantee the savings of depositors in banks in all countries except isle of man and channel islands
The isle of man chief minister has publicly blamed the UK chancellor and UK treasury for this mess
Kaupthing Isle of man depositors are not actually asking for charity from Uk taxpayers..
its not needed as our bank is not bust
but what we do ned is the return of the GBP550 million currently held by kaupthing Uk
i wake up each day thinking..how could this happen?
i stand to lose a substantial part of my life savings but will survive..others depositors are at their wits ends
some politicians and journalists (and i include PM staff here) have been immensely sympathetic and helpful in all this but others through ignorance and prejudice have really shown their true colours...
the performance of Gordon Brown, Darling and the UK treasury ministers over this has in my view been very poor and my opinion of them as people and human beings has fall drastically
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As old sailor's in our retirement in the Mediterranean discarded by
Britain since we are out of Britain for more than 6 months every year.
Cannot open a Bank account in UK by telephone, tried six. That leaves
us with IOM or other offshore territories, only some under Britain
sovereignty.
There is little point in Mr Darlings petulance, merely a smokescreen
for an inability to recognise a property bubble and it's obvious
outcome. How do these people qualify to run a Nation's finance when
Private Industry would discard such low level passengers?
Currency value reflects national financial management, just as share
prices reflect corporate management quality. The UK £ has devalued by
27% in less than two years!
Right now Isle of Man is no cost to Britain and brings a tidy income
especially withholding tax on massive savings that will burgeon to
over 30% by 2011 thanks to the Swedes. That is tax they will lose if
by stupidity they redirect these savings to other domains.
In truth, Mr Darling and Gordon Brown, his predecessor, failed to
recognise a property bubble when they saw it. To the extent where
British Banks should have been cautioned against borrowing money on
the wholesale Market in the East that has now landed Britain with over
£600,000,000,000 they are unable to fund. This lack of prescience has
been the hallmark of 'tax and spend' governance characteristic of the
past decade. 100 years ago this bunch would be in debtors prison.
As clients of Singer and Friedlander for over ten years, everything
was fine. Superb service, problems solved efficiently by someone with
an English accent actually understood by us and we to them.
Coming out of the share market as it bubbled, your cash goes into the
Bank for safety. You check the Bank balance sheet regularly, it's OK.
Check Moody and Fitch ratings, they are OK. Somehow, authorized or
pressure maybe from Britain, Kaupthing IOM lends £550,000, 000 (some
of it all our life savings) to the UK KSF arm. Funds promptly put
into 'Administration' by UK treasury for compensation to UK mainland
depositors. It stinks. Using anti terrorist laws as a pathway to
secrecy; confirmed by an unprecedented use of the High Court to 'seal'
transactions involved.
Notice, there are no Isle of man Banks seeking government assistance
by having sold mortgages to people who cannot afford them on tiny
deposits. You see, the IOM is a haven for sensible people who save
their money for retirement. UK Mainland should copy the concept.
Right now, my wife and I, seventy years old, are the only boat
anchored outside the marina, absolutely penniless looking fearfully at
daily winter weather forecasts. The last time we saw money was the 6
October. On the 9th October our plastic debit card just produced a
black screen letting us know what UK Treasury had done to us.
This is nothing to do with the validity of IOM banks, just
incompetence by UK Government management. There is a tiny pension we
get from our earnings in Britain, however, Department of Work and
Pensions software is more than 18 months behind international use of
IBAN and BIC technology so cannot transmit electronically cash to
Greece. They send a cheque!
The Greek banks collect the forex profit then take 30 days to clear
the cheque. Wonderful planning Mr Darling!
Sailor
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Dear Sir/Madame,
I wonder if you can assist the plight of the above bank depositors?
I am to depressed to realy say much in this email to you ,but I packed in work in the UK reacently due to stress,I was making a full recovery from my illness untill Tuesday the 7th October 2008!
I am 43 and all the money I have in the above bank has been subject to Uk taxes,if you want proof of paid up tax returns I would be happy to furnish you with them!
We now face a difficult future due to the above event!
I have a wife and two young children,we had invested our life savings with Landsbanki for a safe fair return not high risk such as the stock market!
Please can you support the Landsbanki depositors any way you can!
Regards
and Thanks
Ian
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As a teacher in Jakarta, I need to plan how to live here after I can't work any more, but my investment (of part my late mother's estate) in Kaupthing IOM did not go as I'd hoped. The contrast between the Dublin Government's stance- guaranteeing banks who operate in the Isle of Man - and the Brown/Darling Axis, who grabbed Kaupthing IoM money held for safe-keeping in Kaupthing London is awful but not surprising in view of Brown's Castro-style seizure of B and B. Nationalisation without compensation should be something found in history books dealing with Lenin and Trotsky.
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The thing is that this is all meaningless to the UK Government as Ian Pearson MP has stated in Parliament that there was no reason we should bank using Offshore accounts. He has told Parliament (in the Adjourment debate) that we all could have perfectly well banked with UK onshore institutions.
If you disagree with that then you are accusing Ian Pearson (member for Dudley North) of lying to the House. This is a serious allegation; is Ian Pearson correct and we could have banked with an onshore institution or does Ian Pearson need to be reported to the leader of the House of Commons for misleading parliament?
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When my husband and I decided to retire to Cyprus we thought we had organised everything.
We put our life savings in the Cheshire Guernsey for ease of access, and when the Cheshire BS sold off it’s Guernsey branch we didn’t worry because the Icelandic Landsbanki parent bank guarenteed that they would discharge all liabilities. We did try to open a new savings account in the UK, but none of the banks would allow us to as we didn’t have a UK address.
Oh boy - we didn’t forecast what was to happen!
We now have 30% of our life savings.
The various governments who are putting/lending money to Iceland are still not registering the fact that the depositors of Landsbanki Guernsey do not, as yet, have ANY guarantee that they will get their life savings back
Our dream retirement home here in Cyprus is now up for sale - we all know what’s happening in the housing market - so who knows how long it will take to sell.
My heart is breaking as I type this letter.
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I am a recent retiree who was tempted by the attractive deposit rates offerred by Kaupthing. As a result I have lost the greater part of my funds and face the prospect of a very different remainder of my life after decades of effort and saving. I guess being prudent really is really no protection in today's world.
I hope that the pressure you can bring to bear on the Prime Minister and Chancellor will persuade them face their responsibilities in this bank failure.
Thank you very much for airing this topic.
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Ian Pearson defiately did mislead the house in the adjournment debate.
I have tried to open a savings account so I could bank my 30% interim payment from Landsbanki Guernsey and have had to go offshore as the major UK banks will not allow an account without a UK address.
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I decided to invest in KSFIoM as a result of reading the expat recommended investments in the Weekly Telegraph (I live in France). I posted off my deposit cheque and 4 days later KSFIoM collapsed. However, they still paid in my cheque, which must have arrived after the bank was closed.
Luckily mine is not a large amount, 4 figures only, but it is money I worked hard for and saved for my retirement - I don't get a fat cat civil servant pension - but I still need this money to provide income in retirement.
Nothing seems to be happening, the hearing due on 27 November has been postponed for another 60 days. I have had one communication from the PWC in October and nothing since.
It is appalling that we British nationals, having paid into the UK tax system all our working lives, should be abandoned by the Government - simply because we moved abroad because we couldn't afford to retire in the UK under Gordon Brown's stealth tax system - and therefore couldn't open a UK bank account for investment, because we didn't have a UK address any more.
Pressure needs to be put on the Government to help retrieve the money KSFIoM have taken from their investors. The media can help us all by doing this.
Just as an aside, I'm a BBC pensioner - ex BBC Radio.
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I am a UK citizen currently living in Southern Spain. The reason I have savings in KSFIOM is that 1) I am not allowed to open A UK based account 2) Because of the mess that our so called Govt and the bankers have got themselves into I was over exposed at another bank so chose to transfer. I thought I was protecting myself. I pay tax in Spain and I declare all interest earned. So Mr Darling you are wrong when you accuse us of being tax dodgers...shame on you. I have worked and saved hard all my life. I have paid also all my life into the UK system. I have never taken any benefits and now I find myself stuffed by a UK Govt that has chosen to abandon its own citizens and illegally taken my money. Are you going to do the right thing Mr Darling?
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I am delighted the BBC is highlighting this. Our story is similiar to thousands, we are UK citiizens born in the UK. I have worked for over 40 years, paying NI and taxes. I went abroad with my company 14 years ago, paying full taxes in my host country and filing full UK tax returns every year. We opened an account with the Derbyshire. Regardless of what has been said, you cannot open account in the UK if you do not have an address we tried several times. In September I retired and returned to the UK, only for 5 weeks later to find my life savngs dissappear. I really hope your programme will raise the right level of awareness and subsequent support for us.
Thank you.
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We are over 80, retired to Spain for health reasons. We had 2 accounts with Derbyshire Offshore, 1) 1-year Bond from which annual interest was transferred to 2) Instant Access A/C,and used to supplement our meagre pensions.
This latest Bond was taken out late November '07, and no sooner had we done this than we received letters from Derbyshire and KSF advising us of the the transfer to KSF, under the same terms and conditions with even better facilities. We were locked into the Bond, which constitutes our life-savings, and which we now stand to lose.
Either D.O. or KSF (or both) used us and others as pawns in their financial games, and the British Government has shown no regard for the plight of British citizens.
We were proud to be British, served our country, and worked for 2 major British Companies for 40 years and saved for our retirement. Now, thanks to this incompetent Government, we no longer get a parliamentary vote (neither do we in Spain) and are completely disregarded. We would get better treatment as illegal immigrants. We are determined to survive, but we need help now, before the stress of this shambles finishes us off!
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BBC please help!!!
I am a retired British Civil Servant having just moved back from abroad to live in the UK. We are staying at various friends homes in the UK and France until we move into a house of our own and we know our financial state. This is our present position:
In the 1980’s I was seconded from HM Customs & Excise to the MOD Cyprus in the Sovereign Base Ares Administration. My position was as a UK salaried Civil Servant paid and taxed in the UK. I was, at that time, having problems with the high street bank I was with, mainly lack of flexibility in dealing with me while I was overseas, and joined the Isle of Man branch of the ‘old’ British Merchant Bank – Singer & Friedlander. I have remained with them ever since and found that their service and assistance far surpassing any of the British high street banks I have ever had the misfortune to deal with.
A few years ago Kaupthing took over S&F IOM, but that made no difference to the quality of service I received so I stayed with that bank. The bank provided me with a current account within the British banking system. It had a British Sort Code, made direct debits and standing orders within the UK as well as sending and receiving British and foreign interbank transfers, etc.
After five years I returned to my home department in the UK and my salary continued to be paid into the S&F IOM bank – UK tax paid. Later I was again seconded by my department to an EU Customs project in Latvia. Later, and after being retired from HMC&E, I worked for the British Government (DFID and the F&CO) on various Customs projects in various countries including Mozambique (after their civil war finished) and Kabul in Afghanistan (immediately after the NATO invasion).
I was also recruited by DFID to work for two years with the UN in Kosovo and I became the Deputy Regional Administrator in Mitrovica immediately after NATO / KFOR secured the town. I was in the middle of all the ongoing troubles between the Serbs and the Albanians. This was not a Customs job.
Through all this and up to the present day I have banked with S&F IOM which then became K S&F IOM. Their service continued to be excellent and I was able to easily move (electronically and telephonically) my living expenses and salary through their bank to where ever I was working and / or living. During this period I managed to accumulate a modest amount of savings which I retained with KS&F IOM as well as continuing to use my current account with them. The money I accumulated was hard earned and taxed at which ever country my wife and I ‘permanently resided’.
I / we now need this money to support our retirement. But we no longer have it. All our savings (£120,000) are now ‘wiped out’. The consequences are that we have to try and live on a small pension - and own no property. At the age of 64 years I am now looking to have to work again in areas and countries that are not my own, some being very dangerous, in order for us to be able to try and live comfortably again – hopefully back in the UK. That is if I can find any work at my age!
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Nothing is being said about the plight of SIPP depositors in KSFIOM. The British government is doing nothing for pension savers who made deposits in offshore banks. SIPPs are held as trusts and many UK onshore banks (including Northern Rock a week ago) refused to accept deposits from trusts obliging us to deposit with offshore entities. Now UK residents and UK taxpayers are being abandoned by the same UK government that annexed £550Millon of KSFIOM deposits with the UK affiliate banks. The government has taken our deposits forcing the liquidation of KSFIOM to repay other UK depositors and the press, media and the politicians are silent about this - Gordon Brown has destroyed the pensions security of so many with his tax grab and now this why would anyone open a SIPP when the government offers us no protection
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Dear Sir,
I have read a lot of uninformed articles on this subject.
Here are some facts:
1. Many and probably most UK expats do not invest offshore for tax avoidance reasons. Due to the UK government's no doubt well meaning but toothless "anti terrorist" laws, it is virtually practically impossible to open a UK bank account without a UK address. (Not a deterrent at all to a self respecting terrorist organisation, but a significant problem to a law abiding UK expat without a legitimate UK address)
2. Tax HAS to be paid on these accounts at least by those living in EU
3. The victims of the KS&F(IOM) bank collapse are mostly UK citizens, innocent & wise savers, whose savings/current accounts (apparently 500-600 million pounds) have been grasped and held for almost two months by the desperate UK government apparently on grounds of "anti terrorism"! In most circumstances this would be called daylight robbery.
3. It seems the "right honorable" gentlemen Darling and Brown who have perpetrated this crime don't want to discuss it openly or return the money. Not surprising really is it, given the mess the economy is in? Should the 1000's of UK victims take them to court? Or will they give the money back peaceably?
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Myself and my husband are British citizens and have worked extremely hard for the past 25 years in the UK often going without holidays saving for the future, never getting into any type of debt. At the age of 47 and 41 respectfully we had managed to pay our mortage off of £68,000 and our dream was to move to Spain and in May of this year we decided to make the move, we sold our house, car and many of our posessions to fund the move. We consulted a couple of banks who said we would not be able to invest our life savings of £300,000 with them as we no longer had a UK address, they suggested we should put our money in the Isle of Man. We spoke with our IFA and after much homework we decided to place our life savings in KSF IoM Ltd as not only was it 'Triple AAA' rated' but offered a Parent Company Gaurantee, something that offered us a level of comfort (so we thought) should anything go wrong with the bank where we had deposited our money!
We temporarily moved in with my Mother in Spain who is a Pensioner until we found our dream home and we had a small amount of money to tide us over. Due to actions of the UK Government freezing the assets of KSF IoM Ltd we have nothing, everything we have worked long and hard for has disappeared, my Mother is now feeding us and supporting us financially. My husband is severally depressed and I am extremely worried about him.
Mr Brown said recently that he could not stand by and let British citizens loose their savings and would do everything he could to help, he even went on to say it would be inhuman!
I have read recently that some Local Authorities who also have money invested in KSF are fairly certain that they will receive their money back and I have read a couple of quotes from both the Chief Minister and Treasury Minister of the Isle of Man that the £550m that was transferred from KSF IoM (our money) is unlikely to be returned - why is this? There was also a statement from the Provisional Liquidator, Mike Simpson of PWC last week that after a meeting in Iceland with reps from Kaupthing hf that it is very unlikley that they will honour the Parent Company Gaurantee. The FSC on the Isle of Man/Directors of KSF IoM have refused to bring the Parent Company Gaurantee out into the public domain - why is this? What is going on here? there are so many unanswered questions, most of the questions that need answers lie with the UK Government!
WHO IS GOING TO HELP US?
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Similar sad story for us too! Sold house in UK and put savings in fixed term deposit while moving to Catalonia etc ...Now our life savings are frozen and possibly lost. It would be a terrible blow to self confidence if the UK government were not to help us as it has done in previous crisis. Are we not British citizens too? Don´t we deserve the protection of our State?
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I am a UK citizen, a Professor at an overseas University for 12 years having previously worked within the British University system. Earlier this year I was offered a position at the University of Oxford and was all set to return to the UK. We put down a large sum of money on a house and the balance was in KSF IoM. Now our future is uncertain since we stand to lose not only our new house but also our deposit and some retirement savings. I had my savings while I was abroad with the Derbyshire IoM, which I chose as a trusted British institution in a British Crown Depedency. When the Derbyshire sold to KSF IoM I had savings in term bonds which I could not withdraw. In any case I'm not sure I would have tried since KSF IoM had very good credit ratings and I didn't even realize it was an Icelandic bank subsidiary, since this was not made clear in the sale literature. I am furiously disappointed with both the Derbyshire and the UK Treasury, who are being hypocritical in the extreme when they claim to have no jurisdiction over the Isle of Man (and therefore no interest in our difficulties) whilst at the same time seizing and holding 557M GBP which belongs to KSF IoM.
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Like many people who banked with KSFIOM I am an ex-pat who has spent the last 30 + years working abroad. I had my entire life savings in the bank and paid tax on them.The sum itself would have bought me a modest terraced house back in the UK for retirement, which I was just beginning to consider.Those plans have now gone up in smoke! And I like many other ex-pat savers have now been left in limbo because of the actions of the UK govt. Unless the situation re. the return of the 550 million pounds currently frozen in the UK, improves, I will undoubtedly return to England at some point in the future in need of all the Social Security benefits on offer.
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On the 6th of November 2007 after seeing the offer of the Manx Bond issue 59 on the Derbyshire IoM website and reading the special terms and conditions relating to said bond we telephoned the Derbyshire IoM . Among the general questions we asked were two relevant to item 12 of the special terms and conditions.
"12. Deposits made with Derbyshire offshore are not covered by the financial services compensation scheme established under the UK Financial Services and Markets Act 2002. Eligible deposits made with the Derbyshire Offshore are covered by the Isle of Man Depositor’s Compensation Scheme contained in the Isle of Man Banking Business (Compensation of Depositors) regulations 1991. However the Derbyshire Building Society has given an irrevocable and binding undertaking to ensure that whilst the Derbyshire offshore remains its subsidiary, it will at all time discharge its financial obligations as they fall due."
Firstly we asked about the extent of protection offered by the Isle of Man Depositor’s Compensation Scheme and we thought that the £15000 cover was insufficient for the amount we intended to invest so we then asked about the Derbyshire Building Society’s irrevocable and binding undertaking, specifically as to whether or not the Derbyshire Building Society had any intention of disposing of the Derbyshire Offshore. We were assured it had no such intention.
On the 8th of November having assembled all the necessary documentation we posted our application and cheque
Our Bond was duly opened on the 14th November 2007.
The Derbyshire Offshore wrote to us on the 20th November 2007 and told us of the sale to KSF, we were not offered the possibility of closing our account or even moving our deposits to the Derbyshire UK in fact we were told we could not close our accounts. We telephoned to ask if we could close our accounts and we were again told we could not and we thus became de facto depositors with Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander IoM against our wishes.
The Derbyshire Building Society’s negotiations of the sale of Derbyshire Offshore to Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander IoM were obviously far advanced if not finalised at the time we made our first enquiries (the FSC tells us they became aware of the sale on the 19th of November) We deposited our savings in a product which was being actively promoting by Derbyshire Offshore. That is to say that we were led believe by the Derbyshire Offshore that we were entering into a twelve month arrangement with the Derbyshire Offshore when that was patently not the case and that the Derbyshire Building Society’s lack of disclosure makes it complicit in this deceit.
As a result of the sale of the Derbyshire Offshore by the Derbyshire Building Society to KSF IoM our money was transferred from a wholly owned subsidiary of the Derbyshire Building Society thus backed by the implicit guarantee of the British Building Society movement against our wishes to a Foreign Bank off which we knew nothing and would not have saved with given the choice.
You know the rest.
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Thank you BBC for presenting our case and keeping it in the public eye. Several of my fellow depositors have been very severely affected by the loss of their livelihood and some of their stories are indeed very tragic. I hope that My Brown and Mr Darling are indeed made aware of these case and that they are actively trying to find a solution. If they are, they have not convinced us of this yet.
I am not an expatriate. I am a UK citizen and have lived here for over 30 years. I make a very positive and substantial contribution to the UK economy in terms of employment and exports. I run several businesses, employ several people - therefore I pay, Income Tax, corporation tax, Capital Gains Tax National insurance employee's and employer's and will probably pay UK Inheritance Tax when I die. I faithfully collect VAT, PAYE, national insurance, subcontractor's deductions, child support agency payments ....... etc etc for the UK Government. All my savings are in UK Banks and Building societies and are all subject to UK tax.
I SEEM TO SPEND MY LIFE WORKING FOR THE UK GOVT, CAN THEY NOW DO SOMETHING TO HELP ME AND MY FELLOW DEPOSITORS IN KSFIOM?
The funds that I have in KSFIOM (US$120,000) arose from my deceased parents life time savings left as a legacy to my children which was paid in US$. When I applied in the UK to open a US$ Account, I did not realise that foreign currency accounts (US$) are automatically held in the IOM. (I also did not realise until now that the IOM compensation scheme was so poor.) With-holding tax is deducted from the interest on the KSFIOM account and it has been reported on UK Tax Returns. HOW MUCH MORE OF MY BLOOD DOES THE UK GOVT WANT??
The whole KSF UK and KSFIOM situation has got very complicated, so my simple and straightforward questions are:
a) Since the UK Govt represents the financial interests of the IOM (one of its dependancies), what has it done to:
i) negotiate with the Icelandic Govt the release of our money?
ii) ensure that the Icelandic Govt honours the parent company guarantee
iii) ensure that KSFIOM depositors are included in the IMF loan negotiations which the Iceland Govt is conducting
b) As law abiding, tax/rate paying UK Citizens, what measures can we (MYSELF AND MY FELLOW DEPOSITORS) take to get Mr Brown and/or Mr Darling to reply to several of our MP's letters asking for this same information? In our "democratic" society, do have the right to demand a response from the UK Govt?
c) Can we impose a penalty of £100/£1000 for late/no reply or threat of court proceedings on the UK Govt for lack of response - After all, this is what we UK Taxpayers face for not filing our VAT returns within 30 days or paying our tax on time. IS THERE ANY JUSTICE IN THIS SYSTEM?
Totally disappointed and frustrated with the UK authorities!!!!
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I have read the heart-reding stories above and only wish to add the following:
It seems the vast majority of us deposited our life's savings in either the Cheshire in Guernsey or the Derbyshire in IoM or, in some particularly unfortunate cases, split between both.
The main questions that needs to be asked is how could the regulators permit safe UK building society savings to be sold to hitherto-unknown Icelandic banks with totally different risk profiles?
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Dear BBC,
Thank you for the attention you are paying to our story. As it unravels, much more than the loss of £millions will be revealed: it truely is a tale of warring governments, lies, misrepresentations , and potentially illegal- certainly immoral - political manoeuverings . Others here have given the details. I will just say that like many, the potential loss of my deposit will have personal repercussions for the rest fo my life. In a country that likes to pride itself on its system of justice, fairness and moral correctness, we have yet to see the governement act this way towards us .
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Allow me to add to the sad litany. We live in Jersey, ordinary teachers, not tax-dodgers, and put our savings into the Derbyshire Building Society in the Isle of Man - mainly because they were offering a reasonable rate of interest. Being prudent. (Why not invest in Jersey? I am frequently asked - and feel I do have to justify it. Banks here do not provide a competitive service to locals!) Then the Derbyshire was taken over by Kaupthing and we were assured by the 'parental guarantee'. This money, over £70,000 was an inheritance from a dear grandparent to pay for her beloved grandsons' further education. We are currently funding two sons at UK universities at 'overseas' rates- that's another bugbear but irrelevant here although that money goes to UK coffers!!! We are in the process of having a small extension built - saved for but now we are unable to get hold of OUR money to pay for it. This bank was solvent and functioning and its assets were seized by GB using 'terrorist' legislation - (a lot of dodgy geysers the Icelandic.) Now if GB feels it's okay to use those rules in that situation then he must surely apply the same rules to the consequences! If he has no responsibility to offshore islands how can he possibly justify interfering in the first place? Protecting UK investments I'm told! Aren't mine and other ordinary people's life savings equally important? I and others in this situation have lived and worked in the UK in the past. I voted labour. (I would say 'for him' but er no-one did!) There would be absolute outrage if he froze the assets of American or German Banks! Alastair, Darling, I want my money back - it's Christmas!
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I am a retired widow , living in The Netherlands ever since my marriage over 40 years ago. I am however a British citizen and was born in the UK.
I invested part of my inheritance from my parents in the Derbyshire IoM Building Society when it first opened .
Now it would seem that I stand to lose this sum which is substantial though I have prudently spread my money around elsewhere .
At the time KSFIoM took over the Derbyshire in November 2007, I was somewhat dubious but my money was tied in at that stage . I now regret having not followed my woman's intuition and terminated the account when I had the possibility .
I too , urge the British government to help its overseas citizens such as myself to regain what is rightfully theirs.
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From SBSCYP 01 Dec 2008
Thank you to the BBC for highlighting this sorry saga. Far from being rich tax dodgers, as has been portrayed elsewhere, most of us are UK citizens who live and/or work abroad. My wife and I live in Cyprus; she has been permanently resident here since June 1996, and myself since I retired last October. I was a marine consultant specialising in fisheries surveillance and management, working in developing countries since 1988. Like so many others, as we have no UK address, it was nigh on impossible to open a UK bank account. All our funds have now been frozen in KSF [IOM] as a result of an ill-thoughtout move by the UK treasury, which resulted in the bank in Douglas having its licence revoked on 9 Oct. We used our funds to supplement out state pensions and my small private pension, and as a result, we are living on borrowed time and money.
The funds in question are from my late father's estate, on which all taxes etc were paid in Scotland BEFORE the funds could be moved to the Isle of Man. Additionally, I of course pay tax in Cyprus, on my world wide earnings. All we ask is to be treated fairly as are other UK citizens on the mainland. The UK is supposed to look after the foreign affairs of dependent territories, so what is happening in this instance? Not much, as far as I can see.
Yours etc,
SBSCYP
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I am a UK citizen living and working in Norway at the request of my UK employer. Retirement is not far off now and this wretched KSF (IOM) saga will have a detrimental affect on the years ahead as it will on so many others who trusted in the system and find themselves in the same position.
In recognition of the dues I paid to HM Govt for over 40 years of hard working life in the UK I just want them to sit up and listen. To listen and to accept responsibility for the part they played in the demise of what otherwise would probably still be a solvent bank. To act by returning our money.
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Dear BBC,
Many thanks for keeping this subject alive. In spite of all the "background" activity I am sure the present Government would like nothing better than for the subject to be allowed to fade into the background. An interesting comment made on the Kaupthing Depositors site was " No taxation without representation". The facility to vote was taken away from those who have lived overseas for a number of years. No doubt at Labours instigation because the majority of overseas voters do not vote Labour. However, the Conservatives have not exactly covered themselves in glory. At a recent meeting the Shadow Minister for something or other ( probably finance) effectively washed his hands of the whole affair and reiterated the Political position that the UK is not responsible for the Isle of Man. They managed to display enough " responsibility" when either by a nod or a wink over fivehundred million pounds was " repatriated" to the UK before they instigated action to cause the collapse of a perfectly sound Kaupthing branch on the IOM. Why should we pay taxes when we are not afforded the least protection from " our " Government.
It is about time all parties came to realise that unless this whole mess is sorted out, both the Isle of Man and the City of London will suffer serious loss of reputation and business. Indeed, all the UK offshore centres will turn into no go areas for banking. It is all very well for Mr Darling to refer to the IOM as an offshore tax haven in the Irish sea but the UK gains considerably from all the billions channeled there by such centres.
We are not rich tax evaders merely in most cases normal UK citizens denied the facility of opening a UK bank account or Building Society account.
As an ex regular soldier I elected to remain in Germany at the end of my colour service. However, I wished to leave funds in the UK with a view to eventual return. As already mentioned, I was not allowed to open an account with a UK buiulding society so had no choice but to place my funds with Derbyshire Offshore. For many years my money sat there in this account. Through no fault of my own my funds were placed with Kaupthing IOM when Derbyshire sold us down the river. I received all sorts of guarantees that my savings were quite safe. Including the infamous " parental guarantee ". The rest is history. I am now faced with the loss of a considerable portion of my life savings and am getting no support from the people who precipitated the catastrophe.i.e. Gordon Brown and Company.
I have just retired to support a wife with cancer and now have to face all this additional worry because complacent politicians do not feel any obligation or sense of urgency.
Dear old faithful BBC - you can prove to be a beacon of light and hope in this sordid mess. Please, please keep bringing the subject out into the open. Withouit the fuel of publicity they will get away with stealing other peoples money with impunity.
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SCOT BLOTS
"The best laid plans of mice and men go oft awry",
Your noble countryman Mr Burns said that - now you should try,
To speak sincerely - indeed own up,
To cruel blunders on which we now sup...
Us prudent savers with
Old Derbyshire - low returns, high tax,
But safe for sure, grey heads could now relax?
Alas we reckoned not with Brown,
He and his henchman made us frown,
He and Darling of little faith
They did the deed upon the eighth;
They froze our savings, left us to shiver,
Took tax AND capital, my muse does quiver.
They had the golden eggs; they were paid well,
But took the goose that laid them – 'tis truth I tell.
Old Rabbie always had it true.
"The De'il took the Exciseman..."
As he will you.
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I am a british citizen living and working abroad. I originally opened an account with the Derbyshire IOM, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Derbyshire Building Society, in 2005. I never received any correspondence about the sale of this business to Singer and Friedlander and then subsequently to Kaupthing. This is one of the disadvantages of living abroad - postal systems often don't work efficiently. By the time I found out and had taken stock of the situation it was too late to get all my money out. That I, like so many other UK citizens, am in this situation primarily because of the action taken taken by the British Government to seize the assets of Kaupthing in the UK is truly shocking. I surely have the same rights as all UK citizens caught up in this financial disaster. The British government must be made to act to correct this wrong. I have written to my MP but have not received a reply.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Like others, thank you BBC for taking a look at our problem.
The quick, down and dirty on this whole KSF IOM issue is that we, as depositors, have been hung out to dry...wrongly, unfairly and disgracefully, first by the British govt, then by Iceland.
Sorry to repeat what others have already said, but we are NOT looking for a bail out....just the rightful return of our money seized by the HMG.
The whole political - and secrecy - thing involved in this KSF failure would make a great crime novel - who knew, what, when and why, and what's (still) being covered up?
Seriously, why are the court administration orders for the British arm of KSF still secret?
How has the Iceland govt - which has now nationalised KSF - conveniently manged to wiggle out of its "parental guarantee" that was so carefully "sold" to us depositors?
Why is this "parental guarantee" presented to the IOM govt last November, still secret?
Bottom line, I am a British expat saver who had money in the Derbyshire Isle of Man. When they were taken over by KSF, I did some investigation but they seemed to check out OK (A1 Moody's rating etc?!), so rather hesitantly decided to go with them.
I feel especially aggrieved by this whole thing (quite apart from possibly losing my cash) since I have NEVER been a reckless spender, but someone who saved carefully - I thought, putting money in a bank, how boring can that be in terms of investment while house prices are (were) going through the roof?
Now, it's all gone belly up but I/we hope that the truth will out and we get our cash back, to get on with our lives. We were thinking of coming back to the UK, buying a house and settling down.
Now, all that hangs in the balance, thanks to Mr ****** Darling!!
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Dear BBC
Thank you for your attention to how the action of HM Treasury has caused the failure of the IoM Branch of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander.
I am an American ex-pat living and working in the UK with my family. Our expenses here are much greater that our current income in the UK. I am a UK Ordinary Resident taxpayer and pay 40% tax on any income including interest, that I bring into the UK. I also pay USA Taxes on my worldwide income.
I had savings in the USA, but I could not pen a USD account in the UK. So in September 2008 I moved our life savings from the USA to the UK banking system in the Isle of Man so I could easily convert and transfer money to our UK current account as required. The interest bearing balance is needed for us on return to the USA.
The facts are very clear about how the Chancellor, Mr. Darling and FSA shut down Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander in UK, causing KSF IoM to fail, while they retained more than GBP 550,000.00 in IoM deposits in the UK. The only recourse so far is making KSFIoM an unsecured creditor of the KSF UK administration process.
Further any investigation will show that Mr. Darling's FSA action started secretly on the morning of 6 October, but HM-Treasury or KSF UK did not inform either KSFIoM or the Isle of Man Government until formal administrative action was officially announced effective later on 8 Oct. Meanwhile transfers and deposits continued from the Isle of Man into the KSF UK until then. Deposits were retained and transfers requests to be paid from the KSFIoM deposits in the UK were ignored. What is most shocking about this is that the entire administrative process of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander remains hidden under 'sealed' Court orders! Why does this remain do secret without any accountability available?
Can this issue of government secrecy and cover up please be focused on more attentively by the Press? Otherwise it is absolutely shocking that a democratically elected government can get away with this sort of secrecy and cover up, while severely damaging its own citizens and taxpayers. This seems such a news worthy item for good journalism to bring to the public's attention.
Meanwhile the UK is pressuring ICELAND and demanding that government to repay the UK depositors, while ignoring the collapse of the KSF IoM they caused, and their seizing the IOM deposits in the UK for KSF UK depositors!
Can there please be further attention to the current news story that so far Mr. Darling refuses to acknowledge or address this issue, apparently avoiding the UK's responsibility of the UK action. He has only made flippant non direct comments to spin this away about the Island's Financial relationship to the UK. His comments do not have any bearing on the circumstances surrounding the depositors whose lives he has devastated.
It is absolutely outrageous they can get away it with as they are to date. The Isle of Man depositors are being brushed off as unfortunate collateral damage, with the spinned excuse of the IoM tax relationship with the UK, so that it appears HM-Treasury can use this as an excuse to further its own agenda to gain further control of that banking system, without accounting for the damage they caused.
It seems the only the 'Freedom of Speech" and Press remains. In the name and cause of social justice and democracy PLEASE can you highlight the injustice and injury caused by this HM Treasury secret action and blatant abuse of the 2001 Anti-Terrorism laws.
In the end we so far left with insult added to injury by the Isle of Man government, and the FSC, who are doing everything in their power to avoid having to pay any FSC guaranteed compensation, because they do not have the DCS funding available to do so yet.
Thank you very much for anything and everything you are doing for all of us whose lives are so damaged by this, and for those listeners who need to hear the truth.
-a KSFIOMDEPOSITOR
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I am another unfortunate client of Kaupthing S&F Bank, Isle of Man. I am working offshore, and have my life savings in this bank.
It was my intention to return to the UK to use these savings to buy a house for my retirement. Now, like many other expats, I shall still go back to the UK, but seek a government handout instead.
Surely, it's better that the UK government support savers like me now, rather than have us on benefits for years. Has the government thought this all through? I doubt it!
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I have been saving for 25 years to finally buy a house in the UK. All my savings are in the Derbyshire UK branch... what I considered "safe as in the Bank of England. I cannot accept that it is all gone.. I also wanted a safe place, with no risk. Thank you BBC for keeping this in the public eye... and please could the British Government help.. it is not a matter of bailing us out, we just want back the money that we saved so carefully for all these years.
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Dear BBC,
Many thanks for covering the KSFIOM situation.
I'm a KSFIOM depositor as a result of one simple phone call to change my address. I had sold my house in Cambridgeshire and recently moved to Germany to start a new life as a freelance artist. I knew it would take time to get established but at least I had my savings having worked in the UK for more than 22 years as a UK taxpayer. When I called to change my address, my bank said I can no longer have an account with them as I am no longer a UK resident.
So, Mr Ian Pearson MP, you are clearly incorrect. If you had been right, I'd still have my money and so would a lot of other people.
As a result of that I looked at banks on the Isle of Man and came accross KSFIOM which had good rates but they were either equal to or marginally higher than other banks according to a well known consumer magazine. I wanted to make up for the money I lent my brother so he and his wife could by their first house. I knew there was a chance I wasn't going to get that back, so yes, I tried to look for the best return. But I didn't go to Vegas, I just opened a bank account.
I have/had about £145K in the account (not a vast sum by "fat cat" standards), the details of which were to be declared to the German tax authorities in accordance with the EU Savings Directive - no tax haven, Mr Darling.
The irony is I could have kept my other account open and not told them I'd moved, and just used my family's current UK address. I thought I was just doing the right thing. Now I must very shortly start looking for work or I'll have to leave the rented accomodation I'm in.
In the meantime, the British government, who are now supposed to be representing IOM interests appears to have done NOTHING to solve the problem which they precipitated. High level negotiations have so far come to nothing according to the liquidator provisionally. If they are at all bothered, they don't appear to be showing it.
We, together with savers on the Channel Islands seem to be the only people who have been left high and dry. All the savers in Kaupthing on the continent are to get all their money back. We're the only ones left out. It's an outrage. Just goes to show, if you're a British citizen outside the UK even for the briefest period, you're on your own.
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Thank you BBC for taking up this story and being willing to ask the hard questions.
My husband and I are both UK citizens currently living in the USA having been assigned there by my UK employer and having contributed to the UK parent company revenue over many years.
We had our life savings and house proceeds sale in the Derbyshire before it was taken over by KSF (IOM). We paid all taxes on these funds and continue to declare interest earned on our tax returns. We are not rich tax dodgers, just ordinary folk trying to prepare for our future.
This money was our re-patriation fund so that we could move back to the UK to retire or in the event one of us was left alone. We are no longer young people and this represented a life time of saving and fiscal responsibility. The loss of these funds has placed us in an financially fragile situation and we cannot see a way to return to the UK to rejoin our children and grandchildren.
As many other people have pointed out on this site, this situation should not have happened. The 8,000 deposotors of KSF (IOM) are innocent victims and collateral damage of the actions of the UK government in taking over KSF (UK). We are not asking for a bail out: we just want the return of the 550 million which belongs to KSF (IOM) depositors. The solution seems so simple, yet no one in the UK government seems willing to make it happen. Meanwhile, our lives are on hold and we wake up every day to worry and anxiety over our financial future.
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Our story:- My wife and I are 60 & 62 years old and retired to France. Our income from a business stops next year so we had to find a replacement. After 2 years of trying we managed to remortgage our house and raised GBP315,000 which we were going to invest in secure properties in the UK which we had researched carefully and we had identified two. So the UK treasury would have benefitted! After receiving the loan we put it temporarily on deposit with KSF IOM as we live overseas. By the way the interest rate was no more than UK banks like the Abbey were offering and interest earned has to be declared for UK tax which we pay.Then our world collapsed overnight when the UK govt. froze funds placed with KSF in the UK. There is every chance that the UK government will use these funds to repay itself for other UK depositors re-imbursed. Why else would they have the orders to the administrators Ernst & Young of KSF UK sealed in secrecy by the High Court?! Don't we live in an open democracy?
So now my wife and I are faced with following:-
1. No savings
2. A huge loan which needs to be repaid but from where? Our house is now up for sale-not a good time to sell is it?!
3. Very large monthly interest payments to be made on the loan but from where?
4. No income for the future shortly
5. The need to tell our daughter that we can no longer afford to pay for her wedding next year.
77% of those who lost money are UK citizens and approx. half of these are over 45years old. Despite being taxpaying British citizens we are being treared like second class people. The UK government reviews the IOM financial rules for transparency and only in October they signed a joint memo on tax so no tax haven in the middle of the Irish see there!
I hope the BBC will push the government hard on this one just for once and ask them to give us our savings back.The UK caused the problem by freezing funds belonging to us. There is every chance that we will be hung out to dry by a goernment which likes to interfere with every aspect of people's lives but which at heart doesn't really care about them. We will not go away until we get our money back.Merry Christmas?-not this year.
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Hi,
As one of the Kupthing (IOM) depositors, I have lost my life savings and am now looking at a fairly bleak future....
I have a couple of points to put to to The UK Government and to the IMF.
Firstly, Gordon Brown and Mr Darling!
I served almost 30 years in the British military, serving in many wars including the Falklands and the Gulf War. The UK Government sent us to protect the rights of British citizens no matter where they lived. We were proud to be British, that we were "doing the right thing." The Falkland Islanders cost us the ultimate sacrifice, ie. peoples lives. The Gulf War was no picnic either! WE, those who served, don't ask for praise or even reward. We would just like our Government to give us the same level of protection as every other British Citizen.I paid my taxes and raised a family and was proud to serve my Queen and country. We staked our very lives on that service. Now, as I face retirement, Gordon Brown caused the collapse of my bank by freezing it's assets in the UK. Those on the mainland will get their money back. But we are being ignored. The UK Government is treating me like a second class citizen here. Simply because I am currently an expat is no reason to use my money to protect others who happen to be living in the UK at the moment. The UK took my money. I believe I am not out of line after a life time of service to my country to expect fair treatment. That's what being British used to be about! You simply can't give to some and not to the others.
Secondly, The IMF.
I hear the IMF have given Iceland a loan provided they pay back all depositors. It seems that those who banked on the Isle of Man like myself are not included in this arrangement. Why? How can we be the only bank not included in the deal! Are the IMF aware of this and agree to it?
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My mother is a depositor with KSF(IoM) and because of the present fiasco has now effectively lost all of her life savings. She has lived abroad for the last few years and the money she had in KSF(IoM), originally deposited with the Derbyshire, until it was taken over, was from the sale of her UK house. She now faces a difficult and uncertain retirement, if this issue is not resolved and this is causing both her and members of our family untold distress.
Despite the posturings of many that those who bank offshore are all rich expat tax dodgers, I can assure you that she has always and continues to pay her taxes and is by no means rich. She banked offshore as she was unable to open a bank account on mainland UK, due to the lack of UK address.
The 8,000 or so depositors of KSF(IoM) are the collateral damage of the actions of the UK government in taking over KSF(UK). What needs to be done is for the UKP 550 million belonging to the KSF(IoM) depositors to be returned.
The solution is with the UK government, who created this situation in the first place. It is outrageous that a section of UK citizens should be hung out to dry like this!
I hope the BBC will be able to help and shed some light on this subject, for the sake of all the depositors....
Thank you.
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I placed my lifes savings with the IOM branch of Kaupthing and Singer after leaving the UK for a few years, with a view to returning.
I just can't believe that the government can hold on to 550 million, use it to make itself look like Father Christmas with respect to all the other account holders of this unfortunate bank who live on shore.
It is quite simply day-light robbery and to make the account holders go through this sort of mental torture in todays modern world is unforgiveable. Doesn#t matter how the government spins this, wraps it up...if our money is not returned it's scandalous, criminal and simply wrong.
Thank you to the BBC for the coverage.
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I would also like to thank the BBC for keeping our plight in the news and, hopefully keeping pressure on the UK government to give us back our money. I was born in Derbyshire, UK and lived and worked in the UK until 6 years ago when my partner suddenly died, aged 45. I was devastated and, since our families had grown, moved to Spain after 2 years. Ofcourse when I changed my address I was told I could not open another bank account in the UK and sought the advice of a reputable(!) IFA here in Spain who suggested a bond via Royal Skandia even though he knew I was averse to risk as I have no pension other than the state pension. I now know that I have no individual claim as I am in a ´wrapped´ fund with KSF (IOM). My brother´s house has been repossessed as his mortgage payments quadrupled in one year. I have just sold my house here as I cannot keep up the mortgage payments and the biggest hit to my family is that my father has recently died. As I am guarantor on their mortgage and Mum only has a small pension as she is disabled we need access to this money urgently.
I´m sure I am no better or worse off than the thousands of others who have invested with KSF (IOM) but that gives Mum and me and I no comfort.
Kind regards.
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This is a sorry tale of incompetence by the UK Treasury / FSA giving no real forethought to their actions and then being unwilling to admit their mistake.
Alternatively it is part of a plan by these left wing fools to have a go at the banking system and seek eventually to nationalise the banking system.
These British citizens and taxpayers have every right to have their interests protected regardless of where they deposit their money. The treasury take their taxes regardless of where the money is deposited.
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I am writing to add my voice of protest to the many others who are risking loosing precious savings that were on deposit at the Kauphting Singer and Friedlander IOM bank. I had £116k of savings which were intended for my childrens education. I am a single mother with two young children, 4 and 2 years old. I am a British citizen living in an EEC country.
Although I am not a financial expert i understand that there is an intimate link between the downfall of KSF IOM and the freezing of assets by the UK govenrment. I have been paying taxes on my account as any other Euroepan citizen does under the European Tax directive. I beleive that it is the UK government’s responsibility to do everything in it’s powers to recover the deposits held in this bank since most of “our” Money was used to service the financial needs of the UK branch. In addtion the IOM depends on he UK government in international relations.
The UK government should take immediate action to ensure the return of this money to it’s rightful owners. I am shocked at how this could have happened. This is a form of robbery from many honest people who are dependent on these savings.
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young british family,freezing cold,stuck in france,all our money in ksf.not rich tax dodgers NO INCOME NO CAPITAL NO HOPE 4 lives wrecked,what have we done wrong to deserve this
needs to be sorted soon,we cannot last much longer
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I am a retired UK citizen, resident in the UK, who put his day-to-day savings in Kaupthing Edge account to get better interest rate than from UK high street. Now I have no money and cannot pay my bills. Am looking for a job. Please help.
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My story is much the same as those above. A lifetime's careful savings snatched by a greedy UK gov't. An MP that has not responded to my request for help. Severe financial hardship.
I am grateful to both the BBC and the KSFIOM depositors action group for voicing the issue. As I have said, my representative at Westminster has not shown the slightest interest in my plight.
I'm intrigued at how the anti terrorism laws could be used as a pretext to seize a bank. Who actually decides to use the legislation and to whom are they accountable?
If there is sufficient justification to seize a bank's assets on suspicion of contravening anti terrorism laws one day, and then that same bank is hived off to another foreign bank within days. together with a 3bn sweetener, then what has happened to the anti terrorism charges? This really does smack of yet another incompetent bungle on the part of the UK govt. I would suggest that the BBC might like to get their teeth into the procedures the govt followed and expose some of this shambles.
I've never been involved in politics, like many folk. But hard working people cannot let Gordon Brown et al rob them of their life's work. UK MP's are not interested. There will come a time when civil disobedience will be the only resort. That would be a great tragedy.
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I am a Jersey resident and mother of three who pays taxes in full to the states of jersey. In the summer, a friend pointed out the attractive (but not suspiciously so) rate of interest offered by KE/KSF IOM so I decided to open an account. It simply didn't occur to me that a straightforward bank account would be anything other than wholly safe. I am hugely risk averse and have never owned so much as a premium bond. I was absolutely horrified therefore to hear that the bank had failed and outraged to learn that the reason for it was that the UK government froze the money KSF IOM had deposited with KSF UK and has since refused to return it or at least that is my understanding of the matter. Since then, the lack of communication has been little short of disgraceful. I have no statement of account from KSF, no communication about the current state of affairs in short nothing at all. And I am told that the compensation scheme which should in theory cover my loss could take years to repay in full up the the £50k maximum. And, by an unbearably cruel twist of fate, my oldest boy aged 19 has just had a very serious accident which has left him paraplegic. All I can think of is how far that money would go in modifying living accommodation and buying a disabled car etc. I simply do not understand how the UK government effectively has the power to steal my money, money that I will still have to pay tax on! Contrary to what Alastair Darling may think, Channel Island and Isle of Man residents are not tax-dodging champagne-swilling yacht-owners - very far from it - and it is disgraceful that he should steal from us and a majority of British ex-pats who are not permitted under UK law to have a UK bank account.
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Many thanks to the BBC for keeping this fateful story alive.
There is one thing that every single depositor dearly needs answering: Why does the IoM deposit of £550M have to stay in the KSFUK bank for dividing up between UK depositors (including the Treasury?) Mr Darling wants nothing to do with the IoM, but also does nothing to encourage the return of IoM monies to its rightful owners.
The deposit represents thousands of savers hard won diligent efforts to secure their respective futures. Why can the money saved in the IoM not be returned to the IoM? The retail depositors never had a say in our funds being put there, the bank did this supposedly on our behalf to 'safe-keep' them.
The UK depositors seeking a share-out of the total assets are not retail depositors, they chose to make wholesale deposits in that UK bank. Why can their deposits not be conglomerated and shared amongst them, and the IoM asset returned to the Island's bank for division between IoM depositors? Why does this seem so alien to the powers in charge of 'our' money? Was there not a biblical passage that says 'give unto Rome that which belongs to Rome'? KSFIoM depositors will join with me in saying give unto the IoM that which belongs to the IoM.
We didn't get looked after in the UK bail-out so why should our money be included in the UK divvy up? It is has nothing to do with legal requirements, this is people's livelihoods we are talking about here - some people's lives even. You don't talk about people's entire life-savings as though they are a figure of legal speech. We know who saved that money, and we all know why it was in that UK bank and how it got there.
What we don't understand/know/comprehend/ or accept is why it is still there and why it has not been returned to those who paid for it. The Treasury should underwrite its return pending liquidation of the UK bank - just like it's done for ever other retail depositor, otherwise the pretence of the money being placed in the UK bank for safe-keeping (for depositors) is exposed as a blatant lie and strengthens the case that manipulations got the money into that bank for one reason only - and it had nothing to do with 'safe-keeping' for the intended beneficiaries.
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My husband and I have worked hard and been prudent all of our lives.
As we were working abroad we banked with the Derbyshire Building Society
Last year The Derbyshire sold out to Kaupthing singer and Friedlander and their directors were duly rewarded with the usual obscene bonuses.
Savers were assured that all would be as usual Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander were a very sound bank and all deposits were covered 100% by a 'parental guarentee'
Any anxieties we felt were put to rest by this and the warm assurances of the Managing Director of the bank.
We are not fat cats , millionaires or tax dodgers and have spent our working lives often in difficult and stressful circumstances
Now we are approaching retirement and planned to spend our declining years secure in the fact that we had enough to fund our retirement without being dependent or a burden on anyone.
That has now all changed we face a bleak and uncertain future .
We and many like us may be forced through no fault of their own to throw themselves on the mercy of the welfare system.
Why is this?
We have done no wrong we are British people .
We are in the main elderly or retired .
We ask for nothing other than our hard earned savings be returned to us.
Money that would have been or coming back to the uk to fund house purchase and/or is already funding retirement
The major part of these savings are frozen in the UK by the actions of HMG
AS in fact KSF IOM and UK were sound banks until their assets were frozen.
Please Mr Darling
You are hitting on the most vulnerable of people .Elderly people who cannot recover from such a blow our working lives already coming to an end.
People who are funding care for their elderly parents in nursing homes
People who had sold their houses to downsize people who have been hard working people all of their lives.
British people .
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An ordinary English lad with a young family to support. Worked and scrimped and saved to buy a home in UK and had to sell it in falling market when job closed and had to move abroad to IOM to work. Put money in KSF(IOM) since top-rated and bank of government/ charities etc and backed by KSF hf guarantee in fully regulated environment. Now we find our life savings taken by UK government since most of the assets of KSF IOM are in form of a deposit sent for safekeeping to KSF UK. Darling has set up a "secret" administration of KSF UK and we have no information at all on whether we shall see any of our money again. Darling has torn up the rule book because he thinks depositors in UK banks are so important -but will do nothing for us, on a technicality, even though his actions were the sole cause of our problem which wouldn't have happened without him. And now he uses Treasury to exclude KSF IOM from the creditors committee directing the administration of KSF UK. Brown and Darling to go now - they are not "real" people.
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I'm ashamed to be British. I have been in the British army now for 7 years and I have held my money in the Isle of Man because my ex-local bank in Manchester wouldn't open an account for me as I had no UK permanent address. The UK government are a joke...how can they let this happen...I think this is the best kept secret in the media. My sister says it hasn't even been covered on UK news channels and that nobody even knows it has taken place?
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We are manx domicile living in the uk. Our life savings were invested in ksfiom ready for our return home.This deposit was made via Axa iom who provided a list of suitable banks to deposit money in . We assumed if recomended by Axa all was well. I suppose it was until Mr Darlings intervention. Why is the Manx Government not suing the Uk for the return of our money . We do not want charity just our money back. Please do not forget those of us invested through the likes of Axa who will get nothing from the Manx fsc.
Thanks to the BBC, please keep this story highlighted we need you our lives depend on it.
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I am pleased to know that the BBC is continuing to give time and a hearing to the KSF IOM problem.
My 87 year old mother had to sell her home and come to live with me because she could no longer live alone.She put her life savings - largely the proceeds of the house sale - in to the Derbyshire Building Society where she had held an account for many years because she had retired outside the UK.
She now has no money and little income.
I returned from France to look after her, bought my house in the UK and put the balance in the Derbyshire. I now have no money to fall back on and very little income.
We are both UK declared tax payers, we were receiving income with tax deducted at source and declaring that tax in the UK. Look at the UK Tax Return Mr Darling and you will see a section requiring information concerning tax paid under the terms of the European Directive.How can people like Alastair Darling and Ian Pearson hold positions of responsibility in the UK Finance function and be so ignorant of the conditions which most of us have to face every day in order to sensibly manage our money? Should we really be allowing them to go on determining our tax and other laws?
The UK Government determined that it would close down the KSF London bank. Examination of its balance sheet shows that it was not insolvent : a calm discussion with the Icelandic Government would surely have solved the problem of depositors trying to get out their money in too much of a rush. In fact had the UK Govt given their guarantee to the depositors of KSF IOM BEFORE seizing the bank insted of after doing so none of this would have happened.The FSA was aware that the IOM bank had deposited something over £500m in to the London bank. They KNEW those funds would be trapped, but deliberately did nothing. And had they not taken that action it is clear that the IOM bank would not have been insolvent - look at its balance sheet.
There is no doubt in my mind that the UK Government is responsible for the mess in which we depositors find ourselves. They will one day get justice: there are enough of us, sufficiently determined to see our money returned to us, to turn our present polite representations in to vigorous civil disobedience. Mr Darling and Co should not be lulled in to believing that we are ready to shut up and accept our lot
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Thank you for doing this piece.
My mother is Katy, who you interviewed on the show. She has lost everything and is struggling to deal with the situation.
Keeping the story in the public eye is essential. So many innocent, hard working people are being left to face financial ruin.
Thanks again. Please do a follow up story soon.
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I’m grateful to the BBC for taking up our story during the past few days. I worked for many years in UK and saved for my retirement myself, because UK pension schemes were not performing very well for a number of years.
In 2006 I retired overseas and was advised by my IFA to deposit my savings in Derbyshire Building Society in Isle of Man.
I'd worked hard all my life and saved for my future, without ever expecting anything back. I was fortunate to have a good job and I paid 40% tax for close on 20 years.
At the beginning of 2008 my Building Society was taken over by Kaupthing, an Iceland bank. I never knew they were Icelandic, because their web site said they were "A North European Bank".
In any case, my fixed-rate bond that my IFA had taken out for me was locked-in and I had no option to move my savings out even if I wish to. Then in October the unthinkable happened - Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling used the Anti-Terrorist act to freeze the assets of Icelandic banks, causing a run on our bank in the Isle of Man.
It's all been a complete disaster and there has been continual rhetoric spoken by the British Government, saying that Isle of Man is nothing to do with United Kingdom. Well, they are trying to hide behind their responsibility. I deposited my savings in Isle of Man along with many others in good faith. We all know that Britain and Isle of Man have a close relationship and that the Isle of Man government moved our deposits into UK for safe-keeping from the Icelandic parent bank.
Now I'm told that our deposits which are held in safe-keeping in UK are not going to be returned to us. This is because they were frozen as they were deemed to be Icelandic assets. At the same time Gordon Brown has said "No British depositor will lose out". Well, I am a British depositor who has worked all his life paying tax to my country, and now I am retired and deserve to live off my savings that I built up over many years.
But the action of the British Government has destroyed my life and the lives of others like me. I now have nothing. All the hard work and sacrifice was for nothing. I might as well have wasted it all. Now I do not know where to turn. I feel that my life ended with the demise of that bank. And all this because of a slip-up by the Isle of Man and British Governments.
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Late last year my wife and I decided to retire early, to achieve this we needed to do a draw down on our private pensions and sell our house. As the economic climate was worsening and we both were in good health we felt that this was the ideal time to do this. We were lucky enough to sell our house in January, for a reasonable price, and we engaged an IFA to sort out our pensions and advise us regarding the money we had from the sale of our house as we intended to use the interest on the money along with our pensions to cover our living expenses. In the meantime we found a place to rent in Bishop's Castle Shropshire as my wife and I love the Shropshire hills.
On the advice of our IFA we split the money up into six amounts and placed it in savings bonds through Norwich Union. Two of these amounts totaling around £67,000 were placed with Kaupthing Singer Freidlander in the Isle of Mann, as I was advised this was a very safe place for the money.
Imagine our dismay when the British Government froze the assets of KSF in the UK including £550 million of KSF IoM money part of which included our savings. This action forced the IoM branch into administration even though IoM government still insists that the bank was solvent if their assets had not have been frozen in the UK. The thing we find most frustrating about the whole sorry episode is that the Government rushed to assure savers in the UK that their deposits were safe while we are being hung out to dry.
The other thing I find particularly annoying is that some people and some of the press are calling people who had savings in the IoM "Tax Dodgers", I find this offensive as my Wife and I have both worked ever since we left school, paid all our taxes and never been out of work.
I sent this communication to my MP Mr. David Dunne, you can imagine my disappointment when he never bothered to reply.
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For those of you who are sceptics, I pay my taxes and my only sin has been to put my savings into a high interest account. I have avoided shares because I considered them high risk and money is too hard to earn to risk losing it.
It has been an interesting lesson in life to discover just how vulnerable one is when Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander went bust you are basically on your own.
I have lost a quarter of a million pounds, not everything I have but a large slice of my life savings, at 50 it is going to be hard to replace. I have written to my MP in Oxford (I have a home there as well living abroad), I have never even had an acknowledgement - thanks for nothing Mr Veazy. The UK precipitated the cris and is still harbouring deposits from the Isle of Man that would refund 60+ % of depositor funds. I have no confidence anyone wil help and am resigned to losing the money but I believe this is theft and I believe what the financial community has done, and continues to do is a moral disgrace. Our politicans do nothing to help honest citizens while pouring help on those who are benefit dependant - well keep going chaps because you are destroying the good will of the honest Joes who pay to keep you in office and keep the edifice going. My belief in the UK has been shaken and shame on everyone involved in this disgraceful situation. My sympathies go out to those who have lost money and lost hope for the future. I aplaud the BBC for maintaining this story in the public eye, lets hope it goes some way to avoid the next generation making the same mistakes that we have - of course it won't take long for people to forget and the abuse to start again.
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Thanks to the BBC for giving this story some much needed attention. Another twist in the story has been the announcement today that the IOM depositors despite being the 2nd largest creditors of Kaupthing UK (second only to the UK Gov't) did not get a place on the 5 person creditor committee.
Was this another example of the Gov't intentionally blocking information for the IOM depositors.
Remember Gordon Brown's words "No British retail saver will lose a a penny".
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I have a good chunk of my SIPP pension 350k + money frozen and possably lost in the KSF iOM bank, i am a UK resident that has paid well to the tax system in the UK and now i feel i have been let down by my Government that keeps jabbing on about this Island in the middle of the Irish sea being a tax haven, as far as i am concerned the UK sipp rules prevented me from investing with the UK branch of this bank (which insidently i had an account with also) due to the deposit having to be in a trust account which is run jointly by an actuary company who acts as trustee for the pension although it is invested by myself i was directed to the IOM branch.
You could say that i invested it at my own risk, i say that the bank up to its defalt was classed as a AA+ with a parental guarentee, which was better than some UK banks at the time, insidently i ownly invested 4 weeks before it defalted which adds to my suffering.This investment rating system has a lot to answer for ,I blame the government actions of closing the uk branch for the iom branches defalt. I think the goverment has a hidden agenda regarding the IOM, i am fearfull of my and my famillies future. I cannot beleive this is happening!
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Having been prudent and followed the the previous Chancellor of Exchequor, Gordon Brown advised to save for a rainy day.....I did so.....and regularly paid tax on my interest which went to UK HMG Inland Revenue.
So I'm now shocked when Mr Brown does not defend those savings, especially when his government is benefiting directly from the tax claimed from my savings, and simply feigns mild dis-interest on TV.
The key truth I would still like to know about KSF-IOM is why are the court papers still sealed - for a government that promised "transparency", Labour has failed to honour that promise and will not be getting my UK vote in the next election.
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I do not want to be bailed out what I want is to be treated equally as a UK citizen, and the 550 Million that is currently held on instructions of the UK treasury, returned to the Kaupthing IOM Bank .
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If someone told me 30 years ago you would be well shafted by you own countrymen, I never would have believed it. Due to being a UK national, currently living abroad I thought I was being a prudent saver by moving some money into another account from the Uk mainland, in September 2008, as I was over the then compensation limit of 35,000 GBP. I checked National Savings, Fixed Rate bonds with RBS amongst other things. However, I found I could not do anything in the UK as I did not have a UK address. So, in the end, after three months of letters & forms, I was finally thankful when the KSFIOM opened an account for me. Not a particularly fantastic interest rate but around the same as the UK high street for an instant access account. Sadly, no sooner than I managed to transfer the small amount into the account, that I find the Uk government freezes the IOM assets in the Uk and then decides to play politics using Alistair & Gordon. So far, I have not had one penny of interest paid on the account and HM's government are still insistent on screwing their own nationals. along with others. After all it was Gordon, who sold the UK gold reserves cheaply and introduced bank de - regulation in the first place.
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It was my late father-in-law who retired to Spain after working all his life in the UK. (except for 1939 – 1945 when he proudly served for his country) that originally put some of his savings in the Derbyshire IOM many years ago. I just kept the money in the same place once he passed and continued to add over the years for my return to the UK. Like many others I had no idea that KSF was an Icelandic bank and believed the ‘your funds are secure and covered by the parental guarantee’ My children are now starting out on their adult life and all the money that I used to visit and support them has now gone – this will be the first Christmas that we will not be together and it breaks my heart.
I am so angry at the way the whole episode took place, the use of anti-terrorism laws are hardly applicable for the Iclandic people, the unsupported comments made by Darling that Iceland had no intention of honoring it’s obligations which caused the collapse, the mystery as to why the Administration papers of KSFUK are ‘sealed’ and not for those affected to see, the strange circumstances that caused 550 million pounds to be transferred from KSFIOM to KSFUK. There are so many things that have conspired to rob us of our savings.
The UK government is supposed to represent the IOM but it seems that in the negotiations with the IMF the UK sought for protection only for the UK mainland and the IOM was totally left out of any agreement. It just seems that HMG are happy to kick us more and more while we are down.
I seem to recall learning that part of what made Britain Great was the people who travelled the world and set standards across the globe, things are different now but there are many of us who have proudly flown the flag in all corners of the world. To be treated this way by the Government is quite despicable. We are not looking for a bail-out but just the return of our 550 million that was hijacked as a direct result of the bungling action by Darling. I still cannot understand why we are being sacrificed and ‘no British saver will lose’. Am I no longer British?
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Made redundant in my early 50s, I had no option but to work for many years in the Gulf, investing and saving for our “retirement” which began last July and lasted just three months until October 9. It is ironic that the Brown / Darling government has used “anti-terrorist” legislation as a vehicle to effectively steal £ 550,000 from mostly hard-working and tax-paying British citizens. Our treatment whilst in the middle-East, always correct and courteous, stands in stark contrast to that of the UK Government, who have seen fit to seize our life / retirement savings by force and deception. Just who are the “terrorists” here? IOM savers and retirees or a government that steals their life savings for redistribution to more favoured groups? Shame, Mr Brown.
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Mine is not a dramatic case involving huge sums but in my circumstances it is just as threatening.
My wife and I are in our seventies; we retired to Cyprus in 1989. We made arrangements for our UK state pensions, when due, to be paid into the Derbyshire Building Society, which with a very small inheritance, gave us a fall back fund enabling us to deal with private health premiums, holidays when we could afford them and unplanned emergencies such as the recent plunge in sterling
When KSF acquired Derbyshire Offshore in 2007 Adrian Doherty sent his brochure lauding the strength and watertight guarantees provided by his company, quoting “Moneyfacts Best Offshore Notice Account Provider” and “International Investment Best Offshore Product 2006” in support of his claims. We were not pleased at the prospect of change but accepted the reassurances given. We were further discouraged from considering a change by question number eleven in the Question and Answers section of the brochure, which reads:
:
IF I WISH TO CLOSE MY EXISTING ACCOUNTS AS A RESULT OF THE SALE OF DERBYSHIRE OFFSHORE, CAN I DO SO WITHOUT GIVING NOTICE OR PENALTY?
The answer:
NO. ………..
The loss of our money, even if it is returned at some time, has caused us hardship in the short term, as bills must be paid. We have also suffered actual loss as we have had to cancel non-refundable BA air tickets, accommodation deposit and prebooked hotels for a short trip to see our family at Christmas. It appears that holiday insurance does not cover having your funds stolen in this way.
We are appalled that so much time has elapsed without anyone giving a thought to the plight of people suffering real hardship from what appears to be an engineered situation. The UK government’s lack of support is disgraceful. We are not tax evaders, the regulations control this anyway, so why are we being treated as criminals?
Our savings are within the guarantee limits so should be safe but no one will say so with any authority. At least if this were cleared up we could rest assured that we will not be faced with a major crisis when the dust settles
By living abroad we are saving the government from having to provide special support in our old age but we feel penalised for this decision. We are even denied winter fuel allowance as we left England before that benefit was introduced. It is in fact very cold in the mountains of Cyprus. At 78 I do not even get a free passport. I do realise that these things are nothing to do with the Isle of Man debacle but they are very relevant to me and a lot of loyal expats, perhaps Eddie Mair could make a review of this topic
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This is largely an inept and incompetent UK Government we are dealing with. A Government which quite obviously ranks political scoring over and above the lives.
I've just heard that someone has shot themselves in Brisbane after losing everything due to Messers Brown and Darling; dont know the full details as the cafe owner who lets me use a computer while he cashes up told me. I am simply not suprised; i have lost my beloved family, my home and career (i cant get legal work here in Australia as i'm now breaking my visa conditions which included having the KSF funds). Family have gone to live with relatives and i am now living rough. As it is late spring/summer here conditions are ok (Salvo's fill my stomach and St Vinni's give me a bed some nights).
I am simply gobsmacked that the British Government can do this then be allowed to lie to Parliament and pretend nothing has happened. It simply staggers belief. If some poor bloke really has taken his life up in Brisbane then it scares me stupid (already getting the symptoms of depression) and it means that Brown and Darling have blood on their hands.
I re-itterate that although I'm on the streets of Australia and have lost everthing i ever had I'm still glad that I'm no longer in a Country that steals from its citizens then ignores the crys. Pathetic.
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Brown and his Darling are twisting the truth so that the victims are now classified as the villains. As everyone knows when you are working and living overseas you cannot open a UK bank account, all the UK banks direct you to their offshore branches. So we place our hard earned money in these offshore accounts until such time as we can return to the UK. None of us in our wildest dreams would have thought that Brown and his Darling would confiscate our savings in order to bail out the UK tax payer! It is not the other way around as they would have everyone believe. As I was advised many years ago that if you want to understand what is really "going on" just follow the cash trail. So where is our cash? It is in the UK of course! And yes we are supposed to all tax dodgers! What nonsense this government utters!! I cannot believe how meek and and accepting the "Opposition" and the media are towards this action, it appears everyone believes Brown and his Darling!! If the strory about the suicide in Brisbane is correct I feel so desperately sorry, when will Brown and Darling wake up?? God help the lot of us!
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In the Commons debate the minister said the is no impediment to UK citizens living abroad to saving in the UK. That is only true if the account is open before you leave the UK. I live in France (for my health) and although it is in the EU and we are supposed to be treated the same, there is no organisation in the UK that will accept my savings. I have been trying for over 3 years. That is the reason I was pushed to offshore savings for my sterling income. I would have thought that investment in UK would have been welcome.
When he said no reason why I could not invest in the UK, I presume he meant no "legal"reasons. In other words our hands are clean - an argument I cannot accept. However when you froze the KSF funds (an action I applaud by the way) you did co-lateral damage to many UK citizens by sending KSF IOM into administration. This £600m is not needed to compensate UK based investors, there is sufficient in UK
KSF accounts.
Will you please help out these overseas citizens by extending the UK Government guarantee due to exceptional circumstances.
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Thank you so much for the slot about KSFIoM last week. I live in Botswana on the edge of the Kalahari and it seems that a large portion of my life savings prudently saved since 1972, have turned to sand. (My original investment was with The Derbyshire Building Society IoM but they sold to KSFIoM with no chance for us to get out). Please continue to cover this story. My wife and I are beside ourselves with worry - others are suicidal over losing everything. I'm available almost anytime to offer more input on the whole story. Thanks PM.
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Thanks BBC for highlighting this injustice - there seems to be little sympathy and hardly any interest in our plight.
Darling and Brown keep throwing around these glib comments like 'tax dodgers' and 'tax havens' around, and it couldn't be further from the truth. Why make these comments unless they are aiming to poison people's perception of the depositors caught up in the mess they created?
My story: after 17 years teaching in the UK, my family had the opportunity to work in Sri Lanka for two years and we left in October 2007. We decided to sell the house and deposit the proceeds in a savings account, the interest earned would help us survive on the local Rupee salary. We are not rich ex-pats.
We didn't chose the Isle of Man because of tax free interest - which doesn't exist anyway. We chose it because our bank said that we couldn't keep open our account in the UK if we didn't have a UK address. It was our bank that suggested we open an account in the Isle of Man if we wanted to keep our money in Sterling and close to home.
The reality is that we have now lost all our savings. We were going to use that money to return to the Uk in 2009 and buy a different house. How can we return to the UK now we have no money? We are completely broke.
The British Government simply does not care. There are around 8,000 depositors in the same boat and HMG are blaming the Isle of Man and/or Iceland without acknowledging their own crucial role in bringing down our bank. PLEASE expose what they have done to so many innocent savers. All we want is OUR money returned. What is so wrong with that?
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It all started for with the Northern Rock. My wife and I had put some money there for our children, over GBP 50,000.
When the run on the society started we joined in as we had no desire to risk what we had saved for our children. We already had a KSF account on the IOM having been a saver with the Derbyshire for many years. It seemed prudent to quickly transfered the NR money into it.
Who said building societies were as safe as houses?
It is time for the UK government to correct its mistake which caused the premature collapse of KSF IOM and at the very least return the GBP 550 million that it has commandered.
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My husband and I live in Shanghai China, and have done for the last 10 years . Prior to that we were in various other Asian Cities and towns . During this time we saved diligently for our own pension fund ( a necessary thing to do as it isn't tax efficient to pay into a UK pension fund whilst living abroad).
We naturally like to keep our money close to the UK where we planned to return in less than 2 years. Now , our dreams have been shattered in this latest wave of banking crisis, our £300,000 saved over 20 years has been taken from us, we can no longer access these funds and have no guarantee we will ever be able to again, leaving us facing a retirement on benefits (if we would be deemed eligible) from the UK State.
I see our money as having been "stolen" from us - Mr Darling seems to be quite happy to protect all other UK citizens other than those who have been forced out of the country by a lack of work there and those who have worked and saved hard abroad in order to provide a better life for their families.
Why does he say that he "fears that if any saver were to lose out from the demise of London & Scottish, that could prompt significant and damaging withdrawals of funds from other small banks and building societies."
So Alistair Darling has taken the extraordinary step of promising that no retail depositor in London & Scottish will lose a bean, that all depositors will get all their money back, even if they've deposited more than £50,000 at the bank. The same as he did for the UK Icelandic banks so I don't understand the logic here ...DOESN'T HE THINK THAT IF WE ALL LOOSE OUR MONEY IN THE ISLE OF MAN THAT THERE WILL BE IRREVOCABLE DAMAGE TO THE IOM and their banking system - GUESS WHAT - HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THAT !! He can't otherwise he would find a way to help the IOM government and treasury cover our deposits too.
He has accused us of being tax dodgers, fat cats who invest in a "tax haven in the Irish sea" This is not the case at all. We constantly searched for a "safe haven" for our money in an attempt to stay ahead of inflation, we didn't want to gamble it on stocks & bonds or on the stock market itself - too risky for us - so we found a highly credible bank recommended by various comparison websites, Which money magazine and the FT!! It was Kaupthing Singer & Freidlander (Isle of man) which until October 8th proved to be extremely secure.
On that date Politics seemed to get in the way of British banking - The British Chancellor seized the assets of the UK branch of Kaupthing Singer & Freidlander, a branch of the Icelandic bank Kaupthing and the sister bank of Kaupthing Singer & Freidlander (IOM) whose funds were intertwined. This act caused our very liquid branch in the Isle of Man to be forced into provisional liquidation. By doing so our Chancellor has caused untold hardship to not only ourselves but to some 8000 other depositors with this bank, many of whom were using it as their normal every day bank for regular household outgoings. Can you imagine what it must be like to not be able to walk down to you local supermarket and buy food for your family, not be able to put you card in an ATM machine and withdraw YOUR money to pay your bills. It is incomprehensible, something that we previously only believed could happen in China or Russia in a Communist society. How wrong could we be.
We have lived for the last 8 weeks with no word from the UK government that they will help and protect us (UK citizens) as they did those in Landsbanki and Icesave UK, in fact Mr Darling has (in the words of the Treasury select committee) "washed his hands" of us and has now hung us out to dry. By not offering up a guarantee to us he has thrown many of the 8000 depositors into a destitute state with no future. Some of us had just sold property and were preparing to return to the UK to retire , the money was in the bank pending a house purchase in the UK that can no longer take place. Some people have no money, no home and no future.
There are many heart rending stories on our website and on this blog - they are REAL we are REAL PEOPLE and all this distress has been caused by a single act of politics attempting to avert a crisis, which in reality has created another one .
As for us we have to continue to live in China for as long as they will have us --- saving, but the fact is you cannot save in less than 2 years that which you have taken 20 years to accumulate. We do not have enough time left to earn the money to pay for our own retirement - we are simply too old now.
What can we do? It seems we have been neglected for loving our homeland and wanting to put GBP in a bank near home - I wish I had left it in Chinese RMB it actually would have been safer!!
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My life savings are invested in Kaupthing Iom. I'm completely devastated by what's happened and appauled at the way the UK Government and Treasury have behaved and their indifference after the mayhem they have caused - we must not let the UK Government get away with this - we must keep fighting until they are held to account. The UK Government should be sued for the financial damage they have caused and for the untold distress and anxiety they have caused to thousands of depositors and the staff of Kaupthing IoM bank.
There won't be much point in living if I lose all that I have ever worked for. It will be 12 years of my life down the pan. I have no way of earning sufficient to get on the property ladder again without my savings. I want them back.
The UK Government is unequivocally responsible for this injustice. They have caused the mess, so they need to fix it. The blame lies squarely on their shoulders.
It's time for Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown to admit that they are to blame for this travesty and to take some positive action to provide a solution that results in investers receiving 100% of their savings returned to them.
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My wife and I are too caught up in this sorry mess by virtue of an investment bond through Norwich Union International. NU appear to have abandoned our position and only last week sent me a statement effectively showing our investment (100% of the proceeds from our home sale this year and intended for retirement) had dropped from £230,000 to £1 by virtue of the collapse of KSF IOM. No support apparently from our government or the Insurer concerned - abandoned is not a healthy position to be in.
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I am British and worked overseas for British Companies for a number of years. My retirement savings were deposited in KSFIOM. This fiasco is a disgrace. By their actions the British Government brought about the demise of KSFIOM.
The KSF matter was handled appallingly and inflicted significant damage to many, as can be seen from stories here. Messrs Brown and Darling continue to present themselves as key in protecting UK savers, which they have clearly failed to do.
I hope that they find a concience, and take rectifying action. Depositors who have lost their hard earned cash will not simply give up and will hound them relentlessly.
Bailout NOT required, just return of KSFIOM funds.
(On tax issues: Seems Mr Darling has not been told about the EU savings directive).
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All our family life savings are in Derbyshire/KSF. Our son is saving for a deposit for a house. He has lost his wages from his service in Iraq and presently from Helmand Province Afghanistan. He won't be home until next year and this will be 3 Christmas's out of 5 years he has spent in battle zones. During this time he has met many Politians and BBC journalist most recently George Haligar. We have a double heartache as we are aware he is fighting terrorism and yet it is his employers who have used an anti terrrism law to cofiscate his/our monies. If Gov unfroze his money that would be one house sold. It's not the banks fault.
How are we expected to get our minds around this?
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I would like to draw your urgent attention to our following dilemma, We are in a situation where we have invested cash totalling £391,152.00 through Friends Provident International in an offshore wrapper. This deposit was subsequently placed with Kaupthing Singer and Friedland on the Isle of Mann, as follows £125,000.00 on one year fixed deposit to mature 25th April 2009, another £125,000.00 one year fixed deposit to also mature 25th April 2009 and £141,152.00 on a three month rolling deposit maturing 25th October 2008. As you are fully aware K S and F bank have had all of their assets frozen. We have been told that we are being treated as a "corporate" client, therefore have no guarantee of any monies, even including the first 50k compensation from the FSA.
We have never been made aware that we had status as a corporate client. We are just a local British family who have worked and saved hard for our future retirement and our children's well being.We have always paid every single penny of our taxes in the UK. We have placed cash on general deposit for the best rate available. It would appear that we are being put in the same category as local councils, police and other pension funds. These organisations are having representation for recoveries of money, albeit, still ongoing. We have no such representation, we are all alone with nowhere to go, trying to work out how best to recover our money. We have watched on TV, Mr Gordon Brown and Mr Alistair Darling, make the statements that no UK depositors have lost money and will do, ' what ever is necessary,' to recover depositors monies. As it stands at the moment, we lose everything.
I am a UK citizen,not, "a tax dodging person in a tax haven in the middle of the Irish sea," as indicated by the Chancellor.
My wife and I are totally distraught, we are putting on a brave face in front of the children, but at 12 years old our twin girls can sense something is seriously wrong. I am now under medication from my GP.
We are not financial people and have genuinely relied on our independent financial advisor (who has done everything he can to help and keep us informed) but we have nowhere to go, we don't know what to do, we are sick with worry. Please,I implore you, can you help us with any representation that may help retrieve our money? This is a,'cry for help.' This surely is an outragious situation.No one deserves to go through what we are going through.We have seen other UK residents get their money back.Please don't let the British Goverment say, it is an Isle of Man problem.If that is the case, why do they continue to take my tax money?
We feel that we are totally innocent victims in this current financial climate and don't seem to have the support of anybody at the moment,except fellow KSFIOM depositors. Hopefully my wife and I can look to the BBC for support and understanding, in what we see, as a completely unique situation. We believe that your coverage will bring shame to HMG for leaving us with a life of dispair and anxiety.
Please feel free to contact me at any time, to discuss further.
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Great BBC is giving a balanced view to this whole debacle. My husband and I live and work in Africa. We have just sold our house in the UK and were coming home this spring to buiy another ready for our retirmement as my husband is 61. We could not invest the funds onshore UK as we now did not have a UK address, so we invested in KSFIOM as a shortterm investment. We have now lost all our money, what do we do now. How will we buy a house now. Where will be live when we retire. The Labour government have made a mess again and are trying to cover their tracks. They are telling some blatent untruths about us. Maud
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I wanted to open a deposit account in a normal UK bank to leave the proceeds of my property sale in London whilst I looked for a property in Spain. But as I'm now not a UK Resident (by definition someone who has lived for more than 6 months out of the country) and could not provide a UK utility bill, not one bank in the UK would let me open an account. They all forwarded me to their offshore bank branches/subsidiaries in the Channel Islands or Isle of Man. KSF IoM offered the best interest rates, full internet banking and was recommended in countless newspaper and web "best buy" lists. Since the collapse of the bank, caused by HMG forcibly putting KSF UK into administration, the government has insisted that there is no law preventing non UK Residents opening bank accounts in the UK. Why is it still impossible to do so?
I stand to lose over £100,000 just for opening a deposit account. I wasn't trying to avoid taxes (which I've always paid in the UK) or invest in some high-risk high-return scheme. I would have been more than happy to deposit it in Kaupthing Edge UK (to be later bailed out by HMG and sold to ING) if I had been allowed to.
My young family and I have now had two months of worry, wondering what we are going to do next. We won't be able to buy a property in the short to medium term and will have to start all over again.
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We are a British couple currently working abroad. We have always saved and worked incredibly hard to enable us to move back to Britain. We placed our life savings, on the recommendation of a financial advisor into KSFIoM. We are now living a nightmare and fear that the government has abandoned us. All we hear in the press is how Brown and Darling are helping British savers. Well, they are not helping us. We cannot believe that the country we are so proud of is treating us with such disregard.
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Like many expats I was told I cannot open a UK bank account without a UK address, which I don't have. I opened an offshore account with the best interest I could find (who wouldn't?), having first checked that the bank was well established (which it was) and recommended on many investment advice sites (e.g.What Investment?). One month later, that bank was placed in receivership : Kaupthing Bank (Isle of Man). I have been an international schoolteacher for most of my career, paid less well than UK teachers, and with no pension scheme, yet I had saved enough to ensure I could retire not wealthy, but with dignity. Now my entire life savings, my entire net worth, may be lost, forcing me to beg off the DHSS when I retire. What did I do wrong? Did I gamble on the stock market? Did I go for a get-rich-quick scheme? No, I put my savings into a 'safe' deposit account , which was supposedly under guarantee from the parent company should anything go wrong. It seems we are being left to suffer because we are a varied mixture of expats, possibly non-voters, possibly non-UK taxpayers (although I have always paid taxes in every country where I have worked), and we are everyone's lowest priority. Surely any civilised socety must see the injustice of this? We do not ask the UK taxpayer to bail us out. All we ask of the UK is that they pay back the large sum of money (enough to cover about 75% of what we are collectively owed) which was 'conveniently' transferred from Kaupthing IoM to Kaupthing UK just before both were declared in recevership. A sum of money which quite possibly made Kaupthing UK a worthwhile takeover proposition for ING, but left Kaupthing IoM a dead duck, and many of its depositors in desperate straits.
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We moved out from the UK in 2006 to Australia. We sold our main residence and another investment property and the proceeds of these sales plus hard earned savings have all "disappeared". We have just over £400,000 in our account with KSFIOM and are extremely depressed at he thought of losing such a life changing amount of money. We where un decided on our move to Oz so we were holding back on transferring the funds over here. Also the exchange rate had been very poor so we where holding back to wait and see how we felt and for a better rate !! Look where that got us!! We feel that the UK government has well and truly done us over and that someone should be brought to task over this matter. We should not be allowed to lose our savings as it is just not fair that you put your money in a 'Bank' and it can simply be taken from you.
It has been a long time since October 9th and nothing has really changed since then , we are still in Limbo !!
Somebody must know who is at fault and somebody must carry the blame for this situation, be it the UK govn, the IOM Govn, The IOM FSC ETC.
Basically we want our money back that is rightfully ours !!
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I was born and bred in England and lived there for 35 years. I was recently relocated to Hong Kong with my work where because of the timing of my move I have been paid my salary gross of income tax for the last 18 months. I diligently saved that money and deposited it, along with my other savings in KSF IOM. Despite the fact that nearly 2 months have passed since the bank was placed into provisional liquidation the news flow from PWC, the IOM Government, HMG and other 'involved' parties has been pathetic. 2 months on and no one is any the wiser on key questions such as the below:
1/ After conversations between the IOM FSC and UK FSA about the state of the Icelandic Banking industry, deposits of KSF IOM totalling approximately £550m were transferred to KSF UK for 'safe-keeping', rather than transferred them to the Icelandic parent bank Kaupthing hf. As yet, no one has been able to confirm whether those funds were segregated - implying the KSF IOM is entitled to receive them back as a priority creditor. E&Y, KSF UK's liquidator, believes that these were not segregated and hence this money ranks pari-passu with other unsecured creditors yet the FSC IOM and IOM Government believes there were.
The answer to this question is of key importance to the future of many British expats lives. I can not believe for one minute that the decision to place money in the UK rather than Iceland was not because the IOM firmly believed that this money would be protected. What else did the IOM FSC and UK FSA discuss?
Yet the money still remains frozen and no information is forthcoming.
The return of this £550m to SKF IOM would mean that the bank is solvent again and depositors would have their money returned. Depositors who are not tax dodgers, doing anything illegal but just ordinary savers. Depositors who are being treated disgracefully by the Government of their home country. HMG is playing games with people's lives and it is a despicable. We are not asking to be compensated, just return us the money that was clearly placed in the UK to afford better protection to the IOM depositors should the worst happen and the parent bank fail. Well, the parent bank did fail and that was two months ago and we need answers.
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My father was an RAF pilot in WWII and my grandfather fought in the trenches for Britain in WWI. They worked hard their whole lives, saved their money and always paid their taxes.
As a struggling single parent in Canada who had lost the majority of my retirement funds in the stock market crash of 2001, it was a huge godsend when I inherited £33,000 six years ago from my father in 2002. I wanted to keep it safe in a low risk investment until I could afford a down payment on a home. British pounds are worth more than Canadian dollars plus the Canadian banks were paying less than 1% interest, so it made sense to keep the money in the UK.
I tried to open a UK savings account at Natwest, where both my father & grandfather had banked their whole lives, but since I don't live in the UK, I was refused. I chose Singer and Friedlander on the Isle of Man as it was AAA rated. I opened a base rate tracker savings account believing it would be very safe. In 2005 I received a letter saying the bank had been sold to Kaupthing, which I assumed was a German bank. I checked the rating periodically and all was fine... until Alistair Darling took £550 million of my bank's funds using a terrorist act.
Now he claims the money doesn't belong to us but he has used it to pay out depositors who lost money in KSF UK banks instead! I feel that I have been attacked by a terrorist who stole all my money and also my future!
My father and grandfather would never believe that such incredible injustice at the hands of the British government could be done to so many vulnerable people. Many are in far worse circumstances than I am and may not survive due to the loss. You can read their heartbreaking stories here: http://www.ksfiomdepositors.org/category/10/673/688
Mr. Darling we don't want a hand out, we simply want our £550 million back. We are not rich tax dodgers as you have tried to portray us to the media to suit your ends.
To the BBC, I ask you to please read these facts and to help us dig deeper for the real truth:
The UK Government passed emergency legislation on 8th October 2008 which seemingly prevents KSFIOM assets from being returned to its rightful owner without HM Treasury approval. This relevant extract below is from the Treasury Select Committee on 3 November 2008:
Q131 Mr Brady: Chancellor, do you accept the responsibility on the British Government to return that £550 million to the Isle of Man savers?
Mr Darling: It does not belong to the British Government.
No BUT the British Government has given itself authority over the return of assets to KSFIOM. See below: a related party as defined in clause 27 of the Statutory Instruments 2008 N0. 2674 Banks and Banking, The Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander Limited Transfer of Certain Rights and Liabilities Order 2008:
Moratorium on payment to related companies
27.—(1) Kaupthing shall not make any payment, dispose of any property or modify or release any right or liability to or for the benefit of a related party without the prior consent of the Treasury, and any such purported payment, disposal, modification or release shall be void.
(2) No related party shall exercise any right of set-off or combination of accounts in respect of any debt owing by Kaupthing without the consent of the Treasury, and any such purported exercise shall be void.
(3) In this article, “related party” means any member of the same group as Kaupthing that is not a subsidiary undertaking of Kaupthing.
(4) In paragraph (1), if Kaupthing is in administration, the reference to Kaupthing is to be treated as a reference to the administrator.
(5) In paragraph (3), “group” has the meaning given by section 421 of the 2000 Act. (contact http://www.ksfiomdepositors.org/ for a copy of this document)
On Monday at the KSFUK liquidator hearing in London, KSFIOM was revealed as the second largest creditor with approximately £600m owing - yet failed to get representation on the KSFUK creditor's committee.
You can understand why members of the KSFIOM Depositors Action Group are beginning to think they have become embroiled not just in a banking disaster but in a political conspiracy.
I am appealing to the British government to do the right thing. Please make resolution of this crisis a priority and help make sure over 10,800 depositors, the majority British citizens, are not penalised so severely when a sensible solution, which does not involve a UK Government bailout is available.
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Quite frankly I'm not interested in all the government wranglings. I'm too busy trying to keep my job. I havent got time to sit and play on the internet all day and night. Iceland said they would protect investors up to 50,000 pounds, the EC said governments had to protect customers. The Isle of Man said you were covered, the UK said we were covered up to 50,000 pounds.
So its been 3 months and I'm covered and I'm still out of pocket ?
Why ? Why am I struggling making Mortgage payments and cutting back for christmas and not having a holiday next year when I'm covered ?
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I sold my house in April 2008, and divided the money in 30K chunks to make sure I would be covered under compensation scheme rules. My Dad recommended Kaupthing for one of my deposits, so I Googled Kaupthing and clicked on a link... it just happened to be the IoM bank rather than the UK. I'm new to investing and didn't realise that different rules applied to the IoM. I'm not a tax evader. I indicated that I wanted my interest paid net so I wouldn't have any problems with my tax returns.
When I heard the new that UK savers with Kaupthing would have their accounts transfered to ING, I assumed that I would be one of them. Now I realise that I have an A4 piece of paper at home, confirming my account with KSF IoM, that I effectively paid 30K for. (What's the most satisfying thing that I could do with it? Origami?)
I keep checking the KSF website for updates but I have no way of judging if things will be resolved in my favour and it seems that the Isle of Man guarantee to cover the 50k deposit limit is - or could be - worthless. So, is Gordon going to help me out?
It doesn't seem fair that Icesave depositors had their sums paid out in FULL, while I went to the trouble of trying to protect my money by dividing it up to keep each deposit under the (then) threshold of 30k. It looks like the Treasury isn't going to support the Isle of Man government to guaranteed their promised to repay the first 50K to each of their depositors.
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Thank you BBC for helping us in our cause. We are a small business with corporate account in KSFIOM. We are in this with about US$ 90,000. The only hope to recieve all our money along with everyone else's lost money is that this bank get's bought by some other bank and we recieve our money, or Iceland honors thier parent guarantee which they very easily have backed out.
We need your support. With the help of BBC's media coverage we can get back our lost savings.
EIL
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I am another depositor. I returned to the UK earlier this year after having been working with the Red Cross in Latin America/Switzerland for last 10 years and was in the process of closing the Isle of Man KSF account I had in order to place my life savings in a UK bank since I'm now based back in the UK. My plan was to move the funds to a Kaupthing Edge account; unfortunately I didn't manage to do it quickly enough.
I had originally opened an account with the Derbyshire offshore because I didn't have an address in the UK so couldn't open a savings account here. I didn't pay tax in the UK as I had no-tax status since I didn't live/work in the UK.
I was hoping perhaps to use these funds as a deposit on somewhere to live for me and my two boys (I'm a single parent). Am trying to resign myself to the idea that I will never own my own house.
Since KSF was frozen we have received no information from the bank or the administrators. This is in stark contrast to the regular information I get from ING (who took over Kaupthing Edge) which sends regular email information on what's going on with this bank. The irony is that I have no funds in this account as I hadn't managed to organise the transfer of the funds from the KSF IOM account.
It is time for our situation to be taken seriously by the IOM, the administrators of the bank and the British government. At the very least we need clear and regular information and a speedy resolution to the situation. Uncertainty is very difficult to live with.
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THANK YOU BBC for finally recognising the plight of the thousands of us caught up in this huge mess.
Following the actions of the PM and Chancellor on 7/8th October, we are now caught up in the crossfire between the UK, Icelandic and Isle of Man governments. This is not our fault. We do not deserve to lose so much. We presently face a bleak future unless the UK government recognises it has a moral responsibility to act on our behalf.
Our plight is directly linked to the actions of the Prime Minister and Chancellor on 7th October, when they invoked anti-terrorism legislation to seize Icelandic banks' assets in the UK. This was heralded as a move to "protect all British savers". Their action caused the Isle of Man government to suspend the license of KS&F IOM, since some GBP 557 million of KS&F IOMs liquid assets (ie. some 70% of it's total assets!) were at that date temporarily held by the London branch of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander. Still today, that GBP 557 million belonging to savers of KS&F IOM is frozen by the UK government.
The British government's orders to the Liquidators of the Icelandic banks in the UK, Ernst & Young, are for reasons best known to the PM and the Treasurer, SEALED! This is an unprecedented action. This action is preventing the Provisional Liquidator of KS&F IOM accessing the funds of KSF IOM frozen in the UK.
We understand there are some 8,169 savers like us, the bulk of them British, now facing financial ruin as a result of this action. Unless the money is returned to the bank in the Isle of Man, enabling it to meet its obligations to depositors, many, like us, will loose the majority of their lifetime savings. It is particularly ironic that measures to prevent terrorism in the form of anti-money laundering regulations precluded us, like all these other expats, holding a bank account in Britain because we do not have a British home address.
Like many, we are not wealthy - a common miss-conception by many of expatriates who are temporarily working overseas. We recently moved from New Zealand to the Netherlands, as a result of a change in jobs. We sold our house in New Zealand and opened a 1month notice bank account with KS&F IOM, to temporarily hold those funds while we searched for a new home (with a view to retirement) in SW England. We were forced to open an offshore bank account, as it is virtually impossible to open a UK onshore account without a residential address in the UK.
Then, totally out of the blue, disaster struck. Despite 25 years of hard work and prudent saving for retirement, it appears we now stand to loose the majority of our lifetime savings.
The vast majority of expats in the middle of this mess are British. Indeed, many residents of the UK, but chose to bank in the Isle of Man. The government's action, intentional or not, has excluded us from any protection other than the possible assistance of the Isle of Man savers' protection scheme. By it's very nature, this scheme will take many years to provide any form of recompense, and then to only a maximum of GBP 50,000 which is a small fraction of value of our house sale deposited with the bank.
I speak for my fellow depositors when I say that we would expect the UK government to be honourable and extend its protection to "all British savers" by releasing the funds it seized from KS&F IOM, and not just those who by luck presently fall under the government's protection. The lives of many people affected by this disaster will never be the same again if a satisfactory outcome is not reached.
The UK government has already set precedent by protecting savers in UK offshore banks in recent months. Consider Northern Rock (Guernsey) and Bradford & Bingley International (Isle of Man) for example. Why them, and not us?
I attach some very relevant but unanswered questions, posed on numerous occasions to the Chancellor, but so far, without adequate response:
1. At the Treasury Select Committee meeting on 3rd November, the Chancellor confirmed he met with members of the Icelandic FSA in early September, and as a result, that he was well ware of the impending Icelandic banking crisis some 4 weeks before the banks failed in early October.
Can he therefore explain why he took no action until 7th October, by which time it was too late, and has since resulted in hundreds of millions of pounds from thousands of individuals, businesses, charities etc being put at risk?
2. Given this lack of foresight, does the Chancellor agree he now has a moral duty to help ALL those impacted by the inaction of the UK government prior to 7th October?
3. Specifically, with respect to Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander (Isle of Man) Limited (KSF IOM), can the Chancellor please explain why, if he was aware of the impending collapse of the Icelandic banks, he was willing to assume responsibility for some 557 mln of KSF IOM depositors savings, then temporarily held in KSF UK (London) on 8th October, and move them to Dutch bank ING, without (at the very least) warning the IOM Financial Securities Commission (FSC) of the imminent problems with the Iceland banks?
4. The 557 mln of KSF IOM funds temporarily held KSF UK (London) represented some 70% of total KSF IOM depositor’s funds. As a result of the 557 mln being seized by the UK government and transferred to Dutch bank, ING, the IOM FSC had no choice but to be placing KSF IOM into administration. Can the Chancellor confirm he understands this direct cause and effect?
5. At the Treasury Select Committee meeting on 3rd November, when asked if he thought that it was the responsibility of the British Government to return the 557-mln pounds to KSF IOM, he said, "it doesn't belong to the British government". In that case, can the Chancellor please explain why the British government felt so compelled to assume responsibility for it in the first place - by including it in the 2.5 bln pounds transferred to ING !?
7. If the IOM is (in his words) another jurisdiction, can he explain the legalities of HMG's rights over the 557 mln of KSF IOM funds moved to ING on 8th October?
8. Can the Chancellor please explain how, on the one hand, he is happy to accept the tax on savings of those UK onshore depositors who choose to bank with KSF IOM, and further felt compelled to seize and transfer the 557 mln of KSF IOM depositors funds to ING, but at the same time now claims that IOM is "another jurisdiction", and he can't help. In other words, can he confirm he is happy to accept funds from the IOM, but is not willing to return those funds, or assist some 8000 depositors who now face loosing their savings because of his actions on 7th/8th October?
Thank you
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I am a 62year old female tax paying pensioner, living and (still ) working in UK. In November 2007 I placed my life pension savings in the Derbyshire Building society offshore 1 year Manx Bond.
This was due to finish at the end of November 2008, where is it now as I need it ?
Can anyone truly answer.
Somebody somewhere is responsible for this debacle. Who amongst all concerned has the common decency to put their hand up to admit.
In the middle of all this, 4 weeks ago I had to have a parotid gland tumour removed, the tumour was split and now I have to undergo 5 weeks of daily radiotherapy.
Life is pretty much intolerable at the moment
As an honest hardworking Uk resident tax payer, I ask who is going to take up the challenge sort out this sorry mess.
Will any MP rise to the occasion and Champion my cause ( including the other 8000 depositors )
Somebody ? Somewhere ? Help us.
Did Mr Brown say he would protect Uk citizens / taxpayers?
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TRYING TO LOOK AFTER OUR PENSION
We, too have suffered badly because of the KSF(IoM) problems and have lived in the UK all our lives paying all taxes and running our own small business for more than 25 years.
My husband is 63 and I am 61 and we were hoping to retire in a couple of years. We had worked hard at building our own personal pensions schemes invested with Royal Skandia. A couple of years ago we decided the stock market was too risky for our pensions and moved into a ‘safe’ environment – deposit funds with Skandia.
Earlier this year we were advised by our IFA to set up SIPPs (Self Invested Personal Pensions) using Royal Skandia bonds and enabling us to still keep the funds in a very low risk environment.
In April our IFA invested 33% of both our funds in KSF(IoM). Because this is institutional money, under current legislation we will get nothing back when the bank is liquidated
Neither of us have public sector or company pension schemes, only what we personally contributed to our own schemes. Even with the return of our KSF(IoM) savings, our combined pension will still be very modest.
We know there are many people facing similar problems. There are approx. 600 bond holders in Royal Skandia alone, apart from bond holders with other companies.
Mr. Brown and Mr. Darling have stated that British savers should not suffer as a result of the Icelandic banking crisis. We are British taxpayers and British savers. We have done nothing wrong and we tried to minimise the risk to our pension investments and savings. We are not ‘fat cats’ and followed government advice by putting savings in a pension scheme for our retirement and now we feel very let down. Needless to say we are no longer contributing to our pension schemes - no point throwing good money after bad!
Although the IoM has an independent government, it is part of the UK and may have future problems with the confidence of investors due to the lack of guarantees for their banks.
Will the British government and UK financial authorities please return the KSF (IoM) assets and try to resolve the situation by discussing the situation with Iceland and the IoM?
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This is a grubby little UK Government who prefer to score political points rather than deal with problems it has caused.
Being homeless now (and thousands of miles from my broken family) today was another joyous day. I'm still finding it difficult to rummage around public dustbins without feel selfconsious and its going to take a very long time to get used to not cleaning teeth morning/night (my mouth feeling as furry as camel!) and being generally clean (i stink! Felt a bit ashamed coming into this internet cafe where the owner is giving me access for free and stinking the place out!).
I so wish Messers Brown and Darling could see me at this very moment; it might just bring home the tragedy they have triggered. On the 7th of Oct I was part of a happy, humourous, hard working family who had saved carefully for 25 years; all (and i really mean absolutely everything) our money was in a single place for just three days while being moved to Australia after the UK our money was with forcibily closed our accounts as we no longer had mainland UK addresses.
The tears are largely over. I cry very infrequently now as its just becoming a dark numbness of nothing. I'm not stupid, i know full well its the symptoms of clinical depression, but what can i do? I'm not eligible for free medical care here, no response from the British High Commission (and it would gaul me too much to take a penny from that tacky bunch of thieves anyway) and i cant afford medical or talking treatment.
Pathetic and grubby the administration at 10 and 11.
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My husband and I put all our hard earned life savings into KSF IOM in May, because we had an account there before we moved back to the UK, and the interest rate was good. We have paid tax on the interest, like all other UK tax payers. The actions of the british government in protecting Uk savers forced the bank into provisional liquidation due to £600 million of its money being frozen. So we now have no access to that money, and no indication of when/if we might get some/all of it back. We and many other depositors and their friends/families have changed allegiance from Labour - and will cretainly NOT be voting for them in the next election.
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I do hope this is investigated by the BBC. It appears Darling acted hastily invoking terror legislation to freeze another country's assets. The result is that a UK citizen like myself has had their life savings, placed only weeks earlier in KSF IOM, "frozen".
Darling is now trying to divert attention away from his terrible mistake by talking about re-examining the status of IOM. Please don't let him manipulate the media like that.
We don't need UK compensation now: our money is there in the UK, badly hidden under Darling's mattress, and used to bolster a sale of Kaupthing Edge to ING (is that even legal?) - can we have it back now please? I am desperate for my savings to continue my business or I will be bankrupt and loose my home.
I have been a life-time Labour voter but I suspect no more.
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Thank you for your programme about the sorry plight of KSFIOM depositors. Like most others posting here, I am a British citizen living abroad obliged to bank offshore if I want to keep a sterling account. When I moved to France 25 years ago I was strongly advised by my UK bank (Barclays) to move my account offshore to their IOM branch, which I did. This worked well, allowing me to pay for goods and services in the UK directly in sterling, thus not feeling a stranger on regular visits to the land of my birth. As a French tax-payer, I am required to declare and pay tax on worldwide income, including interest from the IOM and have always done so. After my mum died, I sold her house in UK and decided to put some of the proceeds on deposit in IOM, partly to feed into my current account as necessary (with no UK address, I could no longer open a mainland account even if I had wished to do so). At that time, Barclays were offering very low interest rates, so - after a thorough search - I opened an account with Derbyshire Offshore (a subsidiary of a good solid British Building Society, thought I; and with nostalgic associations for me having lived in Sheffield for many years). This was fine too - until Derbyshire sold out to Kaupthing a year ago, giving depositors with fixed term bonds no possibility to move elsewhere without penalties. I still wonder at the apparent legality of this; I didn't choose to bank with KSF - it was forced on me. Of course the Derbyshire assured us nothing would change for us, there was a parental guarantee etc etc (though no-one ever said it was an Icelandic bank). Indeed, KSF was highly rated and seemed OK. And then, less than a year later, came the bombshell...
I do understand that the UK government cannot be expected to bail out depositors in banks outside the UK - even those in Crown dependencies like IOM, BUT - and this is a big BUT - I do feel that in this instance they have some degree of moral responsibility in that their actions (probably justified) aimed at protecting depositors with KSFUK clearly precipitated the collapse of KSFIOM who had deposited a large part of their (effectively our) assets with their sister bank in the UK - funds to which they no longer have access.
The IOM authorities are desperately trying to salvage something from this mess and provide a hopefully better deal than liquidation. But it is clear that they do not have the resources to bail us out as the UK are doing onshore. I believe that, as a Crown dependency at the mercy of the actions of their big brother UK, they have the right to expect better treatment than they are currently receiving. Such as finding some way to restore the 500m GBP to it's rightful owners. We feel totally abandoned and betrayed by the British government.
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We have been living in Germany for the past 7 years and are now relocating back to the London area in April. As most people know (or don't!) rent prices for a family of 4 are high and so we are hoping to buy some property. Unfortunately our savings are stuck on the Isle of Man with KSF (IOM) and if we do not get our money back we are unsure how we will manage to pay rent within reasonable distance to our work.
If we could get the 50000 Pounds as soon as possible that would be a great deposit for a house. We are keeping our fingers crossed that a final decision will be made by the end of Jan.
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I own a small business in the UK and I remortgaged my home to grow and expand it. I deposited the funds along with my savings and tax money into KSF IoM 6 weeks prior to it going into Liquidation. I now have a large debt to repay and no funds to show for it and no funds for tax either.
The business and the livilihoods of 9 families rest on these funds being freed. I put the money in a bank because it was 'safe'. It was not a gamble on shares, derivatives, junk bonds or any other risk based investment, this is a bank and a bank is meant to be a safe haven.
I'm like many others who feel abandoned by the British Government.
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To introduce myself we are a firm of financial advisers dealing in the specialist area of Personal Injury and Clinical Negligence awards.
We are instructed by Personal Injury lawyers to provide financial analysis as Expert Witnesses and as a result of this, often advise the claimant's personal and professional representatives upon settlement of such claims.
We have advised these clients to place these settlements with Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander, via offshore investment bonds. In order to provide them with a "secure" portfolio in this period of economic uncertainty.
Typically, the investments have been made where a Periodical Payment was not appropriate to the circumstances of the Claimant and a lump sum awarded by the Courts as a financially viable alternative.
All of the clients have placed these investments using monies awarded to them following serious injury/illness and settled a claim in the High Courts of Justice, the monies are awarded to provide for the long term care needs of the Claimant throughout their projected lifetime.
As an example, £1.8million has been invested into KSF on a 1 year fixed rate and this is to provide his care home costs as he has care needs in excess of £200,000 per annum and another, £2.5million has been placed for a similar reason, to receive the optimum return to part-fund care costs which, due to the severity of illness, are extraordinarily costly and furthermore, tend to rise much much quicker than retail prices, another of the reasons for choosing this particular investment.
In light of the recent adjournment we are still left in a very uncertain position as to exactly where our clients stand at present with regards to the money they hold in KSF and indeed, meeting their care needs remains a priority.
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My small business of just 2 staff has potentially lost $250K. These funds are not our profits, this is money in the bank that was about to be paid to our suppliers. We now face a simple choice - replace the money by remortgaging our houses - or place the company into liquidation.
We're not expats. We are UK residents and we pay significant sums of corporation tax to the UK government every year.
The reason we could not hold our dollars in UK high street banks is because American suppliers do not accept USD cheques from foreign banks. Our Isle of Man bank issued cheques from a New York bank to our suppliers and they also gave us a debit card. All our funds held in this bank were declared and we paid corporation tax as normal.
KSF IOM was a solvent bank until the £550m was frozen in the UK by the UK government. Therefore, the UK government must take responsibility in returning the £550m to KSF IOM to protect the interests off all the British citizens and UK small businesses.
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We deposited the money from the sale of our house only 4 months ago, when we sold our house before being moved to Australia on secondment with the company I work for.
We couldn't open a UK savings account, and I thought that was why off-shore accounts existed (for people who were not resident in UK). We wanted to keep the money in £'s because we would return and buy another house when the secondment finished, but now this is all gone, how will I put a roof over my childrens heads without a deposit, or even return to the UK without the money to pay for the flights for us all. The flights home will be over £6000 for my family and I and we no longer have any savings.
My husband and I saved all our lifes, paid all our taxes in the UK for 30+ years and now we're accused of being tax dogers - quite frankly it's beyond belief.
If all UK citizens are promised their savings are safe, why are we being discriminated against, we're British Citizens too.
Christmas is looking bleak, no cheer even though it's summer in Australia!
Thank you BBC for your coverage.
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My father died 2 years ago. he spent his whole life working. All he had to show for it was a small delapidated house in Tottenham, London. My elderly mother decided to sell the house and due to her arthritis, spend time in a warmer climate. This was the only money she had and was the result of two whole lifetimes (her and my fathers) of saving to eventually pay off their mortgage. Because she was going to be living outside of the UK for more than 6 months each year she was dvised that she would assume non-resident status and was told that she no longer qualified to have a UK registered bank account and was told to open one offshore. She did not want to do this and it was not her choice to do this. Thankfully half of the money was placed in another bank but half was placed in KSIOM. They advertised everywhere and there were no warnings that this could happen. I won't go into more detail as it's too painful. How can the UK government just stand by and watch these people suffer and lose everything they've worked their entire lives for? I never thought I'd see the day. I still have hope that they will do something because if anyone bothers to look at the facts of what happened they will understand the incredible injustice that has taken place here. If they don't then I lose all hope.
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Nothing significant to add that hasn’t already been said on all the numerous posts on this thread other than to reiterate my thanks to the BBC for picking up on Kaupthing IOM issue. There is much more to this story that just a bunch of offshore bank depositors loosing their deposits (and I do happen to be one of them). The real story here is yet another example of Brown’s underhand addiction to cash grabs by stealth.
Darling’s innuendo about tax evasion leaves a particularly nasty taste as I like everyone else in IOM accounts has to opt for tax to be deducted at source or for detailed disclosure of all interest earned to the tax authority of country of residence.
What is happening here is scandalous and the truth shout come out.
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While I am not in such a dreadful financial position as many of the depositors, I still have the majority of my savings at risk. I am coming up for my sixty-sixth birthday and about to retire after over 40 years of religiously paying my taxes into the UK Treasury. Legitimate taxation is fine as far as it goes, but the illegitimate freezing (some say "stealing") of over £550m of depositors' money in KSF IOM by the UK Government is beyond the pale. It is ironic that, in times past, the Vikings pillaged in the UK and now, in times present, the UK is pillaging the funds of an Icelandic bank, much of it deposited by British citizens who had no choice where they placed their hard-earned money because of their circumstances. They decided to deposit their money in a properly regulated and transparent jurisdiction as close to their mother country as possible. In summary and simply put, a serious crime has been committed and the police should be involved to bring the culprits to book (the police investigation of the Conservative MP's 'crime' pales into insignificance by comparison!).
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Ou situation is similar to many others here. Moved to France, no permanent UK address meant putting money in offshore account. Researched bank that offered 100% guarantee. Now we've potentially lost our life savings - the proceeds of our house sale and everything we have worked so hard for in the past years.
I am dismayed by the lack of support from the UK Government and the fact that our story is becoming old news. Please BBC start asking some tough questions.
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My husband and I are UK resident and pay full taxes on all our income. We had however invested with Derbyshire offshore as the offshore interest rates were higher than on the mianland and we needed all the money we could get to save for a deposit on a flat due to complete in March 2009. We have already exchanged on this in March 2007 so are now legally committed to completing. We have lost all our savings in the Kaupthing IOM collapse and are really worried as to have we will be able to meet our financial commitments now. The stress and worry is causing endless fights in our family. We are not asking the Government for any bail-out just that the £550m deposited in Kaupthing London by the IOM bank be released so that the IOM bank can fufil its committments to its depositors as the UK government has foresaken us. The UK is responsible for the IOM's international relations and negotiations with Iceland. The Chancellor exerted pressure on Iceland in terms of UK Icesave savers, but the IOM depositors seem to have been left in the cold. We would like to understand why UK clearing banks stopped processing transfers from Icelandic banks on 6 October when the uk bank did not go into administration until 8 October as we tried to transfer monies that are now being held up at RBS, a part nationalised bank!!!
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So, how can an apparently solvent bank with a healthy balance sheet as at September 30th (557m 'lodged' in London, 400m+ assets in loans - the total exceeding all liabilities to depositors), fail only eight days later?
The answer to that question would seem to be that in the infinite wisdom the FSA, Treasury (and by association the Chancellor) the 557m. deposited in London for 'safekeeping' has gone AWOL. Were it not for the refusal to return that money to KSFIOM (according to Aidan Doherty's affidavit) the bank could have continued to operate. Without the return of the money is could not.
So, there's the problem, now the simple solution. Have the Treasury's finest find the 557m. and return it to KSFIOM and have it tightly overseen by the FSC in the Isle of Man. Then realise the loan assets, add the two together and settle all the accounts of depositors and we then have money returned to its rightful place and rightful owners. Simple isn't it?
If the Treasury would like to plagiarise this simple plan, please feel free. We all win; they get to claim the kudos for a financial master stroke - and I get to see my missing 'substantial six-figure sum'.
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As a UK taxpayer (currently as for the last 45 years) who worked for the British Government all my life before
retiring abroad, I would like to know how the Chancellor justifies doing nothing to help British depositors with
KSFIOM whose only hope appears to be an almost unfunded partial compensation scheme, particularly since it was his action against Icelandic banks that helped propel a solvent entity towards liquidation. If, as he maintains, the British Government has no obligations to jurisdictions such as the Isle of Man, how does it have the right to seize assets which belong rightfully within these jurisdictions? That's trying to have it both ways. And the question of whether there are tax dodgers in our midst is irrelevant- if there are, it's a great opportunity for the Government track them down and fine them- and hand us all our money back at the same time. Thousands of UK citizens and taxpayers face financial ruin as a result of a reckless action to paper over cracks for which the UK Government must accept a large measure of responsibility.
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I am a UK citizen who has worked abroad for most of his life. Wishing to retire next year, I have been moving my savings into sterling in preparation for my return to the UK. In common with other KSF depositors I was not eligible to invest in mainland UK savings banks and was required to invest offshore.
During 2008 I opened savings accounts with a number of banks, each time providing my passport and residence details in the clear knowledge that information about my deposits would be shared with interested tax authorities. Tax dodging through UK offshore financial institutions is not as prevalent or easy as the British public would seem to believe.
The greatest proportion of my savings was invested with KSF and exceeds the guarantee limits. I have read all the preceding postings of other KSF customers and am saddened by their distress. I consider myself very fortunate that I found the time to spread my funds and so do not now face similar hardship.
My Bradford and Bingley investment is safe. When the British government nationalised this bank they did not discriminate between mainland and offshore savers.
My deposit with Landsbanki Guernsey suffered a different fate. When the British government took over the Heritable Bank, they gave no consideration to Guernsey’s £40 million which was held by Heritable. Landsbanki Guernsey is now in administration with no depositor protection scheme.
My deposit with the Anglo Irish Bank is safe. The government of Ireland guaranteed savings with Irish banks which has allowed the banks time to manage their affairs in an orderly fashion.
Like many others I ask myself “what did I do wrong?” Should I have not trusted in the regulatory systems put in place by the UK and Manx governments? It is a sorry mess which has highlighted the incompetence of all involved.
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Thanks for covering this story at last!
I only moved my cash to the IoM because it's very hard to get a bank account in the UK if you are working abroad - which I was until made redundant recently. I', not a tax evader and unfortunately not a rich fat cat either!
Another element of this terrible story is folk like me who had less than 50,000 in the bank (it may be a lesser sum than other but it was also my life savings). As such, my cash is legally covered but I still have no signs of getting it back. Instead, I'm warned that I may get a few hundred each year over many years to come - with no interest.
I'm now struggling to keep a roof over my head and my plans to move back to England are scuppered.
I am shocked that my own government can treat me, and other British citizens in this situation, in this way. It seems they've stolen our cash, quite literally. I hope they reconsider the moral (and legal) grounds of their actions, fulfill their obligations to represent the IoM abroad and give our money back!
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I "invested" my savings on advice from my IFA. He recommended the Norwich Union, and the KSF IOM.
My request to him was for a no risk investment. He recommended the Norwich Union Premium Bond. Stating that the NU were a rock soild company, with a high ethical background (something I insisted upon). He was wrong, and as a result I lost the money garnered from the sale of my only house.
Who to seek recompense from ? The IFA says that he acted upon information suppiled by the NU, which stated the KSF was a A++ secure bank. Furthermore he had no idea that I was to become a "corporate" investor, and therefore not covered under any compensation scheme.
The NU (as has been written) have been worse than useless. There has been little information given about my situation. In fact, 2 weeks after my money disappeared I received 2 letters from them informing me of increases in their fees !
Recently, a letter arrived making it very clear that they held no responsibilty for my (and the other poor investors) plight.
What do I as a saver do when I cannot rely upon a company as large as the NU? The KSF was a bank recommended by them for investment. The IFA acted in what he believed were my best interests, based upon the NU's sales pitch.
I was an employer and tax payer for 30 years in the UK. I have paid my way all my life. I am not a tax-dodger, just an ordinary hard working British citizen.
Words cannot express how angry I am with Mr. Darling. Shame on you
And shame on you Gordon Brown, for the dire financial mess you have created.
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My husband and I are UK citizens living in France. We deposited our savings in Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander IOM after we had approached several UK banks who told us that to open a savings account you had to live in the UK, which is actually not true. Why are we now being treated as though we are the scourge of the earth who deserve no support or recompense? We worked hard, we saved and we trusted the credit rating agencies - of course we now know that the last thing was a mistake but were also the first two? I think that we would be in a better position now if we had been feckless and in debt with nothing to loose. Mr Brown is not encouraging a 'prudent' society far from it. Sorry, I digress. Come on Messers Brown and Darling do the right thing, return the funds that belong in the IOM and help us find a solution to this nightmare.
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The UK Government's actions are what you might expect in a banana republic. They are scarcely believable and, had they not used anti terrorist legislation to achieve their aims, probably criminal.
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2 small children, wife and I are also caught up in this horrible tale. We are UK residents and tax payers but sold our flat in September 2007 and moved out of London into rented accommodation in order to try to weather the storm. We took professional advice and deposited some of the capital in a cash bond with Skandia. Skandia promoted a 90% guarantee on our cash deposit but it now turns out that we are less protected than the regular depositors in KSF IoM.
The UK Government needs to understand that it is UK taxpayers who are being punished by this illegal seizure of UK taxpayer capital - whether individually, through local government losses or other investments. By misusing the anti-terror legislation in this deceitful manner, they are not only destroying the lives of individual UK citizens and tax payers and their families but also discouraging public saving and inevitably prolonging the recession. Surely that can't be a good strategy from any point of view.
Thank you to the BBC for picking this up and I hope to see a thorough BBC investigation into the government's actions over all this.
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My wife and I are both UK citizens and residents and always have been. We started a company, worked hard, paid our taxes, exported our product, employed people, and grew our business to the point of it being acquired earlier this year. We barely drew an income from the company over its life, choosing to reinvest back into the company to continue growing it. After selling the company we placed a large amount of the consideration into a Kaupthing Edge account, we wanted a safe place to deposit our money, and didn't look at risky investments, just a fixed term account that paid reasonable interest. This was not to dodge tax, the tax on our consideration would not be due until January 09, and we would have been paying tax on the amount invested and the interest.
I am seriously annoyed by the Governments continued use of the term "tax avoidance" when referring to the depositors in the Isle of Man, as their justification for not helping the depositors. This is not true, and had the Government not frozen the assets and acted in the knee jerk way they did, we may still have our money.
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I too have lost money deposited with Kaupthing Singer & Freidlander IOM.
I sold my house in the UK and moved to France. Some of the proceeds from the house sale was deposited in KSF.
I did this, not because I was trying to avoid tax but because, despite what Mr Brown & Mr Darling say, it is not physically possible for a non UK resident to open an bank account in the UK.
The bank in the IOM failed not because it was badley run or because it was in financial difficulty, but because the action of the UK government in forcing the placing of KSF in the UK into adminstration.
We are desperate people and the authorities and the administrators seem to be in no hurry to effect a solution to our problem.
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I am UK resident, but moved cash from the UK, which had been subject to full UK income tax to the IOM, whilst I waited for the GBP-AUD exchange rate to improve. It is much simpler for me to move money to Australia via an off-shore account than via domestic account.
Ironically the exchange rate improved dramatically around Oct 8th 2008.
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My partner and I moved to France, mainly because of the ridiculous house prices in the UK. We have kept our existing UK bank accounts, we pay UK tax on interest earned. We tried on many ocassions to open other bank accounts in the UK, but were initially told its against UK tax laws, after speaking to HMRC and understanding their position, when you go back to the UK banks their attitude has changed to "its bank policy". So if you are a UK citizen but non resident in the UK you CANNOT open a UK account, hence the reason for banking on the Isle of Man. Any interest earned their (IOM), as in our case, under EUSD (European Union Savings Directive), is forwarded to the French Tax Authority, with whom we have had to register, for them to tax us on our Worldwide income. Our "nestegg" provides us with our yearly income that we live off, so that we are not as EU laws state, "a burden financially on the host state". Unfortunately not only has our access been denied to this nestegg, but we are not earning any interest either, so financial difficulities we soon prevail. One has to wonder what the cost to the UK tax payer would be if all non residents had no other option but to return to the UK, as is there right and 'be looked after by the State'
If we and everyone else who is forced to Bank 'offshore' were able, as UK citizens, to bank on the mainland, then there would probably not be a banking crisis as 'our money' as savings would be within the UK banking system
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My wife and I are retired UK citizens, who spent all of our working life living, working and paying tax in the UK.
Now we live in the Dordogne, where we had hoped to support ourselves into our senior years on the back of our savings. We have never had state benefits, or been dependant on the state in any way, and we have always extolled these virtues to each of our four children.
We now find ourselves in a very dire situation, where the majority of our savings have been lost through the demise of KSFIOM. We are frightened, and angry at the way that our government has treated (and is continuing to treat) us. We have been ignored for the greater election good of other UK citizens, who happen to live in the UK.
If we do lose our money, then we will most certainly have to return to the UK, and (against our pride) hold our hand out along with the rest, for benefits, housing, etc.
Your action in highlighting our plight is very very welcomed, and thank you.
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We moved to Spain three years ago for health reasons as advised by a medical consultant. The husband served Queen and Country for several years on active service and his health has suffered over the years. Medical care in Spain is vastly superior to that in UK!
However, having moved I then received a letter from my bank saying that the Government were requesting too much detail about its customers which it wasn’t prepared to divulge. Could I take my money as well. We had sold our house in UK and left the money in a deposit account with a good interest rate. We thought it would be safe and as we anticipated an annual trip or two back to UK it would be sensible to leave it there - save messing about with currency exchange. But no! I remember the days - was it late 1960s - when holidaymakers leaving the UK could only take a minimal amount of money out of the country. Moving vast amounts of money was not permitted. How times have changed.
So we moved offshore, and then the interest rates dropped dramatically in our offshore bank, so, as all the financial experts say you should, we checked out other banks with good interest rates, excellent credit ratings, UK registered, and top of the list was Kaupthing Edge. In July 2007 we opened an account and three months later, our money had vanished into the ether.
If it is not recovered then we are faced with having to take out a lifetime mortgage on our house. We’re lucky that we do have a house, of course, but that isn’t really the point. All the depositors in Kaupthing Edge have been very badly treated, and the vast proportion of them are in unimaginable difficulties, having been left penniless - overnight.
This is a truly shameful scandal.
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Mum worked hard all her life including war service and wa determined to leave her son and daughter a modest inheritance. She did and placed it in The Derbyshire B.S. (IOM) in the name of her two children. This became Kaupthing (S and F) IOM. Why move it when we registered and paid UK income tax on the interest.
Mr Brown used terrorist leglislation for a purpose that it was not designed for to impound that money in the UK. If he thinks we are going to pay UK tax on interest credited but never received because he has stolen it from two UK citizens together with their modest principle he needs to get the cell ready!
Somehow I doubt whether mums two children and their partners, not to mention their own offspring who see some of any possible inheritance disappearing over the horizon will ever be voting Labour again, he needs to think again. Indeed one of the children plus husband and son found this the last straw and have decided that if this is what the UK government sees as honest governance it is no longer the sort of country in which they wish to live and have started a new life in Australia.
We wish we were young enough to join them.
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We are expats living in Switzerland. We have also worked very hard to try and build a nest egg for our future.
We followed advice from our financial advisor to put our money in Kaupthing. We were told our savings would be accessible immediately and that the Isle of Man was a safe place for our life savings. We were told that it would be guaranteed! Within 3 months we have found out we may have lost our it all!
How can we lose money in something we were told was risk-free?
If we had chosen a high risk product it would be different, because you accept the possiblily of either making large gains or losses. We, however, tried to choose a product with no risk and still we have lost. There is no justice here and
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I am the same as pdscott4
my wife and I have worked for 25 years for our long term rewards invested in a bond £1.5m for one year.
we have always paid our tax and never aksed for anything from this goverment.
all we want with all other tax payers is our money back.
I thought robbing a bank was a criminal offence
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Thank you BBC for pursuing this story. I moved to Australia to be with my husband and have paid tax here on my worldwide income. I, too, had to set up an offshore bank account and invested in Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander (Isle of Man) as its credit rating was very reputable. Then came October 8th and my world imploded. 550 million pounds of our deposits are sitting in the sister bank and the Treasury does not see fit to return this money to its rightful owners - people who are Bristish, people who have paid their taxes in the UK, worked in the UK. I thought our government was there to protect all its citizens, not just selected ones. Return this money to the Isle of Man and then Brown, you can really hold your head up as protecting the interests of ALL your governed British subjects.
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I have been working far from my country (no UK resident) and living in the Middle East with my wife and little sons fro the last 5 years. Under the policies of the company that I am working my payroll is in Sterling Pounds and my company can only pay my salary in an offshore bank account under UK bank system. I am not UK resident so I had to open a bank account in IOM. We kept all our savings in KSF IOM in a Cash Deposit Account through a Life Insurance Company, we thought that our funds were safe, we were not looking for a high return for our funds, only for a safe place. The Life Insurance Company and our Financial Advisor never told us that our money was kept under a corporate account and that we were not eligible to any kind of compensation from IOM in case the bank goes bankrupt.
We feel that our life savings have been stolen, we are also desperate and we request IOM authorities and the administrators to effect a solution to our problem.
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All my savings are frozen with KSM IoM. I am a UK based British citizen, pay all my taxes. I am a relatively small fish in all of this, I run music school, teachers and students have all been affected by this financial mess. We also had our savings in ICE, HMG has paid thank goodness, however we still have a black hole in our finances. We will be lucky enough to be covered by the compensation scheme should this be the way forward, however there seems to be no time scale for this payout, and it would be highly unfair to all those involved. We have been left to our own devices to make our voice heard, and cope with these devasting consequences.
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My plight is much the same as many posters above, sold my home in London bought a 17th century watermill in France requiring complete conversion and renovation, found it impossible to open a new bank account in the UK mainland for the remainder of the equity, which was the budget for the conversion, renovation works and living expenses whilst converting. I needed a UK account initially to deposit the money whilst going through the same process in France to open a bank account, problems there non residential address (watermill is classed as commercial building) and as it has no external utilities - no proof of residence = no account can be opened. The accounts had to be opened remotely as was living (camping) in one of the barns over the summer period, finally in mid September a letter from a bank accepting my application for a savings account and I duly transferred the contents of the UK current account, less than 18 days later - money gone, lost in the UK governments grand scheme.
The mill was to be the retirement property, and would provide a small income by converting the old mill workings to power generators, then sell the generated power to EDF, not a huge income but sufficient to provide a modest, almost inflation proof retirement package and very easily managed.
I'm an engineer not a financial wizard all I needed was a savings account to hold a large sterling deposit then manage a currency conversion from the deposit to Euro's all of which was possible with KSF, there was no additional charges to hold a Euro account and no bar to opening additional accounts in Sterling or Euro's thus making it far easier to manage the monies remotely. Sounds really stupid now but I knew nothing of compensation schemes, how many other ordinary people did before the events of 8th October 2008. Kaupthing was recommended in many of the online "savings advisory sites" and I did check the bank with the relevant information Moody's, Fitch etc,. all looked good, their ratings were the same and in some instances higher than many high street UK banks - after all it was an old highly respected City of London Bank Singer Friedlander bought recently by Kaupthing - due diligence done or so I thought.
At the time of writing I'm back in the UK staying with friends and have less than £100.00 left, no income, no employment, no home Christmas in 3 weeks and bills to pay amounting to £800.00 by the end of the month, this doesn't account for any of the normal Christmas expenses such as presents for my children.
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I find the behaviour and comments of Brown and Darling absolutely incredible. Their actions brought down our bank kaupthing Edge Isle of Man, but not only are they refusing to acknowledge this they are going on the offensive insinuating tax evasion. This is highly insulting and also ignorant of the facts. I was forced to put savings "offshore" as I live abroad and do not have UK address. I pay tax on the interest at the same rate as I would pay in the UK ... there was no financial benefit. Brown and Darling you are quite simply arrogant incompetent thieves.
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After selling my UK based company, my life's work, I have invested a large part of those proceeds in KSFIoM, which is my pension money. Sadly at the age of 69, with what has happened, I am now greatly restricted in what I wanted to do in my retirement. I am a British citizen, live in the UK and have paid the full amount of tax on this money to HMRC. It is utterly deplorable that this Government should be able to freeze our money and pass it on to another part of the Kaupthing Group. How dare they and then refuse to bail out the IoM on account that it is a Crown dependancy. The Government caused it in the first place, they had better get us all our money back. Besides I would like to see a reply to my many letters from both the PM and the Chancellor. They do not even have the courtesy to explain it all. It took me weeks to figure out what is going on. I have been assured by the IoM Treasury that the Government will put pressure on Kaupthing Iceland and the Icelandic Government to at least pay out on the 100% guarantee that we have been given. I did my homework thoroughly before investing with KSFIoM, had obtained AAA ratings and the guarantee letter and yes I liked the high interest rate. To end: BBC, I ASK YOU TO MAKE A BIG PLEA TO OUR GOVERNMENT WHEN BROADCASTING. THAT THEY JUST CANNOT TREAT US LIKE THIS. HOW DARE THEY BAIL OUT ALL UK BASED BANKS AND NOT THE ISLE OF MAN, PARTICULARLY WHEN THEY CAUSED IT THEMSELVES IN THE FIRST PLACE!
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People ask me ' why on earth did you deposit with an overseas bank when you live in the UK? The fact is we didn't , we deposited with DBS ( Derbyshire Building Society ) IOM branch . At the time , November 2007 , DBS UK were underwriting all deposits in the IOM branch and to us this was virtually as good as being covered by the FSC compensation scheme . After all when did a UK building society last go out of business with the loss of all deposits !! Within two weeks of taking our money DBS told us they had sold out to KS&FIOM . just like that , no warning , no option to withdraw , we have given your money to an Icelandic bank you may never have heard of and if you don't like it that's too bad because they have your money now and you can't have it back for another 12 months . To add insult to injury DBS made a handsome profit and it was all rubber stamped by the IOM FSA and the UK FSC .
Twelve months later and we still do not have our money back , DBS are keeping their head down and doing nothing more than pay lip service to the depositors they sold down the river and the IOM authorities are playing for time in the hope of finding a buyer - any buyer at any price - to avoid triggering their compensation scheme . If there was any justice in all this DBS would make good the deposits it took last year in very questionable circumstances and take over the business of getting recompense from the liquidator provisional or IOM authorities .
If reports are accurate our governments action in securing Icelandic bank assets in November also grabbed around £550M of KSFIOM money then held by KSF UK following an inter bank transfer from KSFIOM . In short it appears that money belonging to depositors in KSFIOM has been absorbed and used to repay depositors in KSF UK . I made this point to my MP David Kidney some weeks ago but to date I have received no reply . Alaister Darling has stated that HMG will not be the lender of last resort for offshore depositors and thats fair enough because none of the KSFIOM depositors are asking for that . All they want is their money - £550M - returned to the IOM for distribution .
Lastly , should the very worst happen and depositors lose their money or even a proportion of it then I don't see the IOM surviving as a financial centre . And what else do they have apart from banking ? A miniscule tourist industry and kippers!
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As a KSF(IOM) depositor with all my life savings at stake, the way the GB Government has behaved after its intervention into Landbanki precipitating the collapse of KSF(IOM) is despicable. Surely is there is no legal duty to repay the £550 million caught up in KSF GB there is a moral one?
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Two years ago I lost both my parents within three months, one suddenly and one after a long illness. It was a very traumatic time. This led us to reassess our lives and to make the decision to start a new life running a guesthouse in the Austrian Alps. We sold our property and put the proceeds, our life savings and my inheritance into an ‘instant access’ account with Kaupthing in the Isle of Man. We wanted to keep our savings in the UK until we were settled, but were unable to do so as we were ‘non-resident’. Whilst we are aware there is no legal reason for this, all the banks we approached were unwilling to give us an account. Stringent money laundering rules mean it is simply too much bother for them. We could have put all our funds in Austria. However, we had already lost over £100,000 between buying our land and moving, due to the poor performance of the pound against the euro. We needed to live from our interest whilst we weren’t working and, at the time we could only achieve 2.5% gross interest in an Austrian account. Were we greedy? I don’t think so. We were prudent. We wanted our money to work for us in the same way as the charities and local authorities did.
We moved to Austria in April 2008 and appointed a firm of builders to build our dream home. This home is now complete. On 6th October we placed an order to transfer funds to pay the final balances for our build and furnishings. At the time we believed Kaupthing was still secure. We were away from home for a few days and returned on 10th October, to find that the bank was in administration.
We have been forced to approach our local bank, which has been very sympathetic and they are sorting out a loan for us so we can start our business. As a consequence we will be in more debt than we have ever been in our entire lives.
We know the UK government has no legal responsibility to help us. In our opinion they cannot deny their moral responsibility. It was a direct result of their actions regarding Landisbanki that led to the insolvency of our bank. We have heard nothing about what steps the UK government is taking to try and get our money back, despite the fact that they are supposed to represent the Isle of Man in international affairs. They make us feel like money-grabbing, tax avoiding lepers. We are not.
We are left in the dark. We have been promised an interim payment, but have not been told how much or when. It is unlikely to be significant.
We did not think we were taking a risk, all we did was put our life savings in a bank. Please continue to highlight our plight. We are grateful to you.
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Having worked hard for 15 years setting up a small business employing 50 people, I decided to sell up last year.On advice from HSBC I took out an off shore wrapper with KSF Isle of Man, not to avoid tax but to defer it for one year. These bonds were sold to clients as having an insurance element to protect the funds in the event of the bank getting into difficulty. However it turns out there is no such protection and I and others face losing all or most of our deposits.
The actions of the UK government have caused the failure of this bank whether intentionally or not.The logical thing to do would be to return the funds and let the bank trade again. How can this government act so favourably to depositors in other non-uk banks such as ICESAVE yet ignore the plight of savers such as ourselves?
My whole life savings are deposited here- my only crime being to take the advice of an IFA who patently didn't know what he was doing. I now have a large Capital Gains Tax bill due with no funds to pay it.
We are uk citizens like all other savers who have been helped- where is the justice?
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I put £66,000 into a Friends Provident International bond on the advice of my Financial Advisor as I wanted to earn interest on my savings prior to retiring.
This was put into the Isle of Man Kaupthing icelandic branch and now I have been told by my Financial Advisor it is not covered by any compensation scheme because the Isle of Man is not in the U.K. and Friends Provident put it in their name so I do not qualify for compensation as a small (retail) investor.
Ordinary peole like me who have lost their life savings need to warn others not to make the same mistake.
The British Government appear not to care about us at all even though I have been a tax payer and British citizen all my life.
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Like others, at the beginning of October 2008 we were UK citizens happily retired and living in Spain. Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander changed all that, with the help of the UK Government. We funded our retirement with savings earned from a lifetime working and paying taxes in the UK. We are now "counting our coppers" and worried about the future. Thank you BBC for your interest in our plight and that of those in the same boat.
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The whole KSFIOM situation is a complete joke.
I am a UK resident Tax Payer who has interest deducted from my account as per any other on shore account.
As a result of the UK Treasury using Anti Terror legislation (yeah we all know what a bunch of havoc causers them vikings are) I am now unable to access my money.
Yet the Gov.t is happy to fully guarantee on shore deposits with KSF. People argue its not a UK issue but IOM. Well sorry, when they froze IOM money in KSF UK it became the Govt. issue because it means that us UK tax payers are now out of pocket.
Also, as my money has now been frozen by the Govt. how can I now pay my Tax Return? Go figure that one Darling.
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The other day I was at home of a winter's evening watching the film Wag the Dog (see www.wag-the-dog.com for details) and couldn't help but draw parallels to the situation with KSFIOM and the Icelandic banking crisis. In the film, Robert DeNiro stars as a spin master who creates a phoney war to distract attention from a sex scandal surrounding the president. Back in the real world the scandal is the UK government's forced seizure of assets in KSF causing the insolvency of KSFIOM. The war, the financial crisis, is real but has been used to justify the unjustifiable - the glory and political capital gained by saving the UK financial system from a bunch of risk loving foreigners trumps all. For the UK government, the question of Isle of Man deposits has been swept under the carpet, and anwyay, the vast majority of the people who suffer don´t have a vote in the UK. Had this been normal times, how could the UK government justify bringing down a perfectly healthy bank?
Information has not been forthcoming about what really happened. What we do know is that the vast majority of the liquid assets of KSFIOM were transferred to London and KSF UK shortly before the government intervened. When the UK government seized the assets of KSF UK, KSF IOM became insolvent. The FSA had its small part to play in this sorry tale too; word has it that the upstreaming of capital was partly on behest of the FSA and subsequent requirements for capital adequacy prompted the government intervention. The FSA recently published an internal report damning its supervision of Northern Rock, which can only inspire confidence in its actions.
Alistair Darling is so sure of the moral and legal position that the UK government took, that he described the Isle of Man as a "tax haven sitting in the Irish Sea", which is rather perturbing for depositors of KSFIOM, by far the majority of which opt for tax retention at source under the European Savings Directive. As everbody sagely agrees, it is essential to restore confidence to the financial sector, but it seems a funny way to go about it by pulling the plug on a healthy financial institution.
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We are UK citizens who have lived in the UK all of our lives. We both retired from our careers early after more than 30 years (my wife due to a chronic progressive illness).
With our savings we purchased a small apartment in the US and opened the offshore account with Kaupthing in the Isle of Man (it was one of only a handfull of Banks to offer a US Dollar account) as back up to our US bank account.
Interest accrued on the Dollar savings is declared to the IR on my yearly tax return.
On first hearing of Kaupthing having financial problems we applied to move our deposit to the US account. Unfortunately this was not actioned and our account remains frozen by the UK Government.
There has been little to no information since on what is happening other than the Court proceedings have been adjourned to late January 2009. We have had one letter from the Liquidator Provisional Mr Simpson informing us that our Kaupthing account remains 'frozen'.
Had we had the 'insider' Parliamentary knowledge of the Icelandic banks being in difficulty (referred to on a live TV interview by the Conservative M.P. for Hexham Mr Atkinson) we would have undoubtedly acted sooner.
We have written to our local Labour M.P. on a few occasions who has acknowledged our enquiries with nothing more than a vague promise to look into the matter. We also wrote to the Conservative leader Mr. Cameron who also acknowledged us (via an employee) but provided nothing more.
We feel forgotten and let down by all concerned. The lack of information and unwillingness for anyone to 'take hold' of this situation is dreadful. We will not give up the fight for the return of our hard earned savings and as such would appreciate greatly any help the BBC would be able to give us in this regard.
Thank you for the opportunity of telling you about our circumstances.
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Whatever the politicians say it is practically impossible to open a UK savings account without a UK address. I live abroad because I work abroad. I have no UK property and no UK address. My savings were in KSF IOM and the actions of the UK Government caused the collapse of this bank. Simple as that.
Further as GBP550m were on deposit with the UK sister bank at the time HMG placed them in administration, this 550m was effectively frozen and now is under the juridiction of the administrators. The statutory administration order made on 8 Oct declares that no "release" or "payment" can be made to any related party (that means IOM sister bank) without the consent of the Treasury.
Alistair Darling, when asked about the return of this deposit to its rightful owner replied rather disingenuously "it doe not belong to HMG" but all the time he sits on the knowledge that the Treasury (HMG) is fully able to release this deposit to its rightful owners. These rightful owners are in the main part ordinary working UK citizens who happen to live abroad. I pay all taxes on my savings and taxes on my income in the country I work.
Do the right thing Mr. Darling.
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I've had a great idea!
As it seems that the UK Treasury used the 557m. siphoned out of KSFIOM to sweeten the deal with ING, then all I really need to do is to contact ING to ask what my new account number is with them.
This should save all the tedious hanging around waiting for Messrs Brown and Darling to find a politically acceptable euphemism for 'institutionalised embezzlement'.
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Like several others whose blogs appear before, I am a non-UK citizen. I work in Southeast Asia for a company that is not a UK company but one that is registered in the BVI and keeps its payroll distribution account with KSF IOM.
Trusting my employer completely and believing that the IOM is a rock-solid place to bank I allowed my excess salary -- essentially, my life savings -- to accumulate in the company account at KSF. Now 68 years old and in failing health, I decided to retire at the end of September. In the first week of October I asked my employer to transfer my accumulated salary (life savings) to my bank in my home country. KSF replied to the transfer order that the bank was in provisional liquidation and inquiries regarding the account should be addressed to the Liquidator Provisionally, Michael Simpson of PWC. PWC's replies to my company inquiries have been pure rubbish. Apart from information gleaned from the KSFIOM Depositor's Organization I know little about the status of my money except that money in corporate accounts is, apparently, not covered by any guarantee scheme.
Given the foregoing it is imperative that KSF is restored to solvency by the return of the funds looted from it by Gordon Brown improperly invoking an anti-terrorist law against Iceland. If the money is not restored, I cannot expect to receive a penny of the US$200,000 that had been ordered transferred by my employer to my benefit.
The improper application of the anti-terrorist law against Iceland, as a pretext or excuse to 'freeze'/'seize' KSF's assets (its saver's deposits) is, I believe, central to the issue. I believe that it is imperative that those representing the depositors in KSF before the courts or other adjudicating bodies vigorously and successfully argue that the application of the anti-terrorist law by the UK government was improper (illegal) and thus, the freezing or seizure of KSF's assets was collaterally illegal and must be returned to their rightful owners -- the depositors/creditors of KSF IOM.
The behavior of Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling in this matter has been despicable, ill-considered and callously without regard for the rights and interests of decent, law-abiding, tax-paying citizens of the UK and of other countries.
If the label "terrorist" is to be legitimately applied to anyone it should be applied to Brown and Darling. If a country is to be labeled as a terrorist nation or one that supports terrorist it must be the UK, not Iceland. Brown and Darling have terrorized me by stealing my money with the intent of using it to recompense the losses of UK citizens who lost money in the Icesave scheme. Who do Brown and Darling think they are -- Robin Hood?
Several bloggers have alluded to the fact that Brown and Darling's acts will not be borne by KSF depositors without impunity and that loss of life might very well result. I certainly hope that the terrorist acts of Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling do not result in more acts of terrorism. I believe Gordon and Alistair need to 'think long and hard' about this prospect and realize that desperate people may stop at nothing to revenge their ruin by a couple political hacks who are desperately trying to save their waning political careers. Only fools would disregard the prospect that innocent British lives may be victimized with the same degree of callousness that Brown and Darling have shown to KSF IOM depositors
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Gordon Brown's government were happy to take thousands of pounds in tax from my IOM account, but now that KSF depositors have been abandoned they prefer to revel in their greed. I am and always have been a UK resident and taxpayer. We cannot be discriminated against in such an obvious way.
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I deposited money left to me by my late father in Derbyshire Offshore in the Isle of Man. As a British citizen living abroad, I could not open a bank account onshore. In September 2007, Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander IOM bought Derbyshire and I decided to leave the money there and enjoy the high rates of interest they were offering.
This money represented my security, the promise of a future that will not be characterized by need when I retire in two years. The money gave me the confidence to carry out long-awaited renovations on my home. When I was made redundant from my job in May, the money in the IOM allowed me to continue to live a decent life.
When I woke up to the news on that black day in early-October, it took a long time for it to sink in that the British government had frozen all KSF IOM accounts and that, in effect, my money was inaccessible to me. I cannot, even now, grasp how legally and indeed morally, such a thing can happen. The rug has been torn out from under my feet. It's my money and no government, bank or organization in the world has the right to take it away from me.
Give it back. Give me back my life.
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Londoner who has paid more tax this year than my current total worth. Life savings stuck in Kaupthing IOM / or frozen in the UK somewhere by anti-terrorism law according to what I'm reading on the internet. I am paying to bail out other savers / mortgage owners while at the same time being robbed of everything I own. Will hunger strike outside No.10 if whats mine is not returned.
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We are currently living in the US but still have a home in the UK so pay our taxes etc etc............... We moved some money (250k) into Kaupthing Isle of Man 12 weeks before the collapse because the interest rate was attractive on that amount of money. No other reason. We didnt dodge anything, we'd paid taxes on it because the money had been in a savings facility in the UK previous to the move.
Some of the money belonged to my mothers estate. She passed four years ago at the grand old age of 50 and we were hoping that our children (one who is 3) and one being born next March, (yes what a great stress free pregnancy!), would benefit from the money for their future. How wrong one can be......... We are supposed to be moving back to the UK soon but we find it sickening that we should have to given what they have created for us which is a complete and utter shambles. We still find it hard to believe that they cant admit their mistake and get on with amending the situation.
We just want OUR money back, fair and square. We detest thieves and liars!
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We are bond holders with Royal Skandia and have become embroiled in the Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander (IoM) debacle. We are a recently retired couple and, for the first time in our lives, had a pot of money as a result of the lump sum from our pension scheme. It was not a huge amount, but we wanted to be sure of doing the best we could to ensure our future so as not to be a burden to the State or our own family. For the first time, we sought the advice of an IFA stressing that we were totally risk averse. He advised us, as a safe bet, to buy a bond with Royal Skandia and put a deposit with KSF (IoM). We were not told, even by the IFA or by Royal Skandia in their copious paperwork, that we would not have the same rights as an individual depositor. We had no idea that we would become part of a corporate bond.
This, we feel, is a further complication to the whole lamentable debacle surrounding KSF IoM.
We, the same as other depositors, are NOT tax dodgers. We are British citizens, have lived and worked in this country all our lives, paid all our taxes, bringing up three children here too.
We seem to have become embroiled in a political wrangle as a result of this banking crisis and there seems to be no thought as to how this is affecting our lives. We are just ordinary people who have tried not to be a burden to anyone and have been so heavily punished!
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It's clear and very depressing to see how the UK and Icelandic government are handling all of this. They seem to want to try and convince the general public that KSF IoM depositors are getting what they deserve. What could be further from the truth. As with any bank anywhere in the world there are depositors from all walks of life and situations. It's despicable to listen to the authorities label us all as loafers and tax evaders. Who do they think they are?? Robin Hoods??
The bank was tricked into sending a huge some of money which was quickly confiscated. The excuse is that they asked for the money to be sent but never promised it would be returned??
If this kind of thing can be buried and disappear and all these depositors, their families, employees, investors, etc lose their life savings or even small deposits, how in the world will that help the situation.
Bail out banks for their bad investments, cover the losses of greedy market traders, prop up failing business, throw tax payer money here and there but leave the careful depositors hung out to dry... A policy for the future it seems.
jc
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We would like to thank the BBC for highlighting the terrible situation we find ourselves in through no fault of our own.
We opened an account with the Derbyshire, Isle of Man as we live in France and could not open an account in UK. When Kaupthing, IOM took the Derbyshire over we were assured our money was safe and if the unthinkable happened our money would be guaranteed by the parent bank.
We have wourked hard all our lives for our savings and have paid tax on the interest. We are not tax dodgers as Mr. Darling suggested.
We have never asked for a government handout in our lives and we are not doing so now.
WE JUST WANT OUR MONEY BACK.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
HM government and Treasury are taking Kaupthing IOM (and Landsbanki Guernsey) depositors hostage in their political fight against the IOM and Guernsey. This is appalling and must be condemned in the strongest way. It is plainly not acceptable in any civilised society.
Like my fellow depositors, I am requesting that:
a. The £600m blocked in Kaupthing UK (and £38m in Heritable Bank for Landsbanki Guernsey depositors) as a direct result of the actions of the UK government be released immediately. They should stop claiming they have no control on that money; the whole matter was orchestrated by them.
b. The UK government require from the Icelandic government that they refund the assets that were upstreamed to the nationalised banks and that they honour the guarantee made by these banks in case of shortfall in their subsidiaries. There has been no report of any result in this matter and one must therefore conclude that the UK government is again playing political games by not fulfilling its constitutional duties.
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I am a teacher in Tanzania. I have lived here for 11 years. I make no apologies for not being the most up to date as regards events in Europe and the UK. However, my savings, which are the sole modest legacy plus interest of my Grandfather, are in jeopardy as they were deposited with the Derbyshire IOM many years ago and then passed to Kaupthing when it was sold. What has happened? KSF IOM was OK until UK froze its assets. If my car crashes into someone else's car due to my own actions, am I not liable for their damage also? So why is the UK not liable for sinking my savings?How is this right and just? The details of all this are totally puzzling. Please BBC, look into this - what on earth is going on?
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My mother and now deceased father were originally from the UK , my father worked for woolworths and went around the world opening stores for them.He settled in Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe. His pension after his death was being paid into Singer and Friedlander in the Isle of Mann.... Now my mother and the rest of my family are left destitute in Zimbabwe.I find it disgusting that the UK government are trying to wash their hands of this and am suprised at the ignorant comments about tax evasion made by that "thunderbirds muppet" Darling. My father paid his taxes but couldnt hold an account in the uk because we lived abroad.SHAME ON YOU BROWN AND DARLING.
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I am a school teacher who has lived and work in the UK all my life (37). I have always paid my tax and by the rules.
I have been true to the "prudence","live within your means" etc...
I lost £136,000 for making the mistake of opening an account with Kaupthing.
I am a British citizen, resident and have paid tax on all my savings all my life just to see me loose everything.
WHAT IS FAIR ABOUT THAT?
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Gob smacked that at the creditors meeting on Monday KSFIOM creditors were not elected to the creditors committee despite being the second largest creditors (600million)
London transport is on the committee (40m) and the cats home unknown but a lot less than us.
We could be mistaken in thinking that there is some conspiracy afoot to bury us.
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Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander ( Isle of Man) Limited.(KSF IoM Ltd.)
-------------------------------------
When the UK Treasury action resulted in the seizure of £4bn of Icelandic assets in London on October 8th.2008, c£557m of the amount seized was from 8000 British depositors at Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander ( Isle of Man) Limited.
The British Government has refused to return the c£557m to the rightful control of the Provisional Liquidator KSF IoM Ltd, even though the bank's solvency problem leading to his appointment was the direct result of the London asset seizure as was the closing of the credit markets to Kaupthing hf (the parent bank in Iceland) and it's subsequent nationalisation by the Icelandic Government.
Those KSF IoM Ltd British depositors who live in the UK pay UK tax on the gross interest earnt on the Isle of Man: The Isle of Man has parallel legislation consistent with the European Savings Directive and there is quite rightly full disclosure to the UK taxation authorities.
Those KSF IoM British depositors who live overseas are subject to Isle of Man regulation and transparency: Often their savings were the result of years of business life in the UK where revenue and capital taxes were paid; those retiring permanently overseas being subject to further capital taxes during their period of 'deemed UK domicile' upon any capital tax event arising after finally departing the UK where they no longer recieve any services from the state however much tax they may have paid into the UK Exchequer over the years.
The British Government has acted harshly with regard to the c£557m it has wrongly taken from these 8000 predominently British savers.
The review of Crown Dependencies is to be welcomed as a way for the Isle of Man Government to demonstrate it's strong record of compliance with the highest global standards in the area of financial regulation, taxation, transparency and international co-operation, but it is not an excuse for the British to keep c£557m that belongs to it's own citizens.
In addition to this the British Government must also take seriously it's constitutional duty to properly represent the external interest of the Crown Dependency to the Icelandic Government in seeking the return to the Provisional Liquidator KSF IoM Ltd. of net intercompany money due from Kaupthing hf as well as seeking that the written 'parental guarantee' given to the Isle of Man Government in September 2007 is honoured, if necessary by the Icelandic Government given that Kaupthing hf is currently nationalised.
The Isle of Man High Court has wisely deferred further consideration of the petition to wind up KSF IoM Ltd until January 29th.2009.
The British need to do the honourable thing and return c£557m to the rightful control of the Provisional Liquidator KSF IoM Ltd; he is already in control of in excess of £100m and there is a good loan book with little impairment of c£410m which may be sold. The Isle of Man Government has identified £150m for Depositor Compensation and British negotiation with Iceland may result in intercompany money ( very small compared to the £557m the British have taken, maybe only a net c£10m) plus parental guarantee sums also being given to the control of the Provisional Liquidator KSF IoM Ltd.
There is sufficient resource for KSF IoM Ltd realistically to be returned to solvency and for no depositor nor creditor to lose any money at all.
However, the British have the lion's share of the balance sheet and must do the right thing and have it sent to the Provisional Liquidator KSF IoM Ltd for we 8000 British savers who deserve better treatment from our home government than we have seen hitherto.
A government that wants to take a high moral tone would do well to consider for a moment a simple teaching from Sunday School, however many years ago any of us attended:
THOU SHALT NOT STEAL !!!
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Granted, The IOM is a separate jurisdiction etc etc etc despite the fact that nearly 90% of depositors are British citizens, Gordon Brown will not bail KSFIOM out of this mess (even if it was an unexpected result of H.M.Government's own arguably illegal use of anti terrorist legislation).
So now, people like myself, who effectively have worked all my life and saved hard, find myself bailing out the likes of RBOS, HBOS etc etc (using taxpayers money- my money!) from their careless destruction of the banking institutions YET, we cannot convince HMG itself to LOAN the Isle of Man the money needed to pay back all the depositors cash. Come on Gordon, give us all a hand here mate, the Isle of Man and 8,000 depositors have worked too hard for you and your attempts to stem the banking panic to take away in one swoop. Mr Brown has done well I think but this catastrophe cannot be allowed to happen and only the likes of HM Government is powerful enough to rescue us.
When you think about it, the IOM government will now need to find many millions to pay out the £50k per depositor- the difference between this and the full amount on deposits (£830m) is not that great if one considers the damage to the IOM's reputation that this banks collapse may have on their economy. Best for the IOM Govt to get a loan and pay us all before the damage becomes malignant and unoperable.
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I am a British citizen living in the UK, and paying UK income tax on my earnings and UK withholding tax on my interest earned on my IOM account. However as I work for a US company I require a US deposit account – I was instructed by UK banks to use their Isle of Man branches for this purpose (I was not given the option of depositing US money in the UK).
The UK government decided to place Kaupthing UK into administration effectively freezing £550m of Kaupthing IOM assets which were held there – these assets were only put there after consultation by Kaupthing IOM with the UK financial authorities, who recommended the UK branch as a safe place to temporarily put assets whilst the solvency of Iceland banks was being questioned.
So why are the UK government not instructing this money be returned to the IOM? Incidentally, Kaupthing IOM was a solvent bank at the time of the UK government intervention, and so would be solvent if this money was returned.
Darling and the PM seem to be using the “IOM not under UK jurisdiction” line as a cover up to conceal the theft they have perpetrated.
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My story is sadly similar to many who have responded.
My wife and I have lived in the UK throughout our working lives, paying our taxes, and along the way planning responsibly (we hoped) for our retirement.
As part of this process we took financial advice on the sale of a jointly owned property and were recommended to invest in a bond with Scottish Provident.
The 200k thus disposed of (it now seems) was meant to give a tax efficient regular income throughout our retirement. Our IFA made it quite clear that tax would eventually be due on the sum and this was perfectly acceptable to us.
The fact that the money was deposited in the KSFIOM bank subsequently became painfully relevant when the UK government seized the assets of its UK arm causing the failure of the bank.
It is difficult to know how this action differs from simple piracy and there has so far been no adequate explanation from the government.
Our potential loss will obviously have a drastic effect on our retirement, to slightly understate the matter, and any help the BBC can give in encouraging the government to face up to its obligation and repair the damage it has caused would be very welcome.
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My wife and I have seen £250000 of our hard earned savings from the uk, just disappear because of action by the UK government, who in turn say it's not their problem, but refuse to return £550million deposited in the Uk Kaupthing bank. They say we are tax dodgers (it is impossible to bypass the EU savings declaration). They say we should have invested in UK banks (again this is just not possible if you live in Spain without a UK address). This is a desperate situation, We just feel abandoned and betrayed.
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Thank you BBC for your interest in our plight. There are many of us who are facing the prospect of the bleakest and most miserable Christmas in our lives.
My family have lost virtually ever penny we ever saved. We thought ourselves prudent citizens, We don't want for much but neither have we ever wasted much either. Our hard work was always rewarded with the corresponding salary and we saved for our children's future, education and retirement so that our efforts now would not necesitate our relying on the state in our old age. This has all changed now and degrading as it is for me I will be looking to the state to finance my life until I die. How sad! I hope Mr Darling, Mr Brown and all the advisers who play with our money and our lives are able to resolve this injustice for the sake of those many decent citizens who are not so proud of the not so great Britain that we thought we live in.
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We are a family of British Citizens who came to the USA in 2000 to maintain my husband's 22 year career with a British company. We chose to do this rather than face redundancy and the prospect of no job. I had worked as a nurse in the Health Service and other health related industries for 25 years when I left. We were advised by our accountant to put all our hard earned savings into Derbyshire Isle of Man, as we would be non resident. In essence, we paid for expert advice and we took it. Not only have we been robbed of our money, but we have been robbed of our future. Our plans to return to the UK and build a home, educate our daughters, enjoy our retirement...gone, all gone.
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My situation is very similar to that of others, my wife and I aged 55 and 60 are facing complete financial ruin as we have all our assets tied up in Kaupthing Singer Friedlander Isle of Man on the assumption that they would be secure. We understood that this bank was extremely sound, that all the relevant ratings were excellent, and that we could bank there with confidence. We are in danger of loosing all our money, amounting to just under £300,000. This sum comprises of our life savings and the proceeds from the sale of our business in the UK (after many years of hard work), due to health reasons. My wife has just recovered from cancer and now we have to face this as well. As a retired couple we were depending on this money to finance our future and are suddenly left without a penny. What are we supposed to do at this age in life, get a job, and who will employ us at this time of our life. This has caused us severe financial hardship and extreme distress.
We have through all these years saved very cautiously, with the guidance of British financial advisors and have paid taxes all our life including capital gains tax from the sale of our business.
At the moment we are holding on to the hope that we should and must get our money back. Even if we both continue to work as long as we are able we cannot make up this loss, and I just cannot see how we can support ourselves through to the end of our lives.
I do not believe that people’s livelihoods should be manipulated in such ways, and hope and trust that a solution will be found that enables total recovery of the funds for all of us concerned.
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Thank goodness a serious programme like yours willingto hold a discussion on this subject without allowing the Government being able to sweep it aside.
The key facts of the matter are that the UK Government says they were told that the Icelandic government were not going to pay any compensation to subsidiaries of nationalised Icelandic banks and therefore they invoke the counter terrorism law freezing the Icelandic banks assets in the UK.
This meant that KSF UK could not continue to trade - but the UK Government said that they would compensate the UK based depositors for any loss suffered.
However their action meant that the 550 pounds million deposit that KSFIOM had placed with its sister company in the UK was frozen.
KSFIOM cannot recover that deposit without the agreement of the UK Traesury, and as a result was put into Provisional Liquidation as it was unable to pay its own depositors. The Treasury will not do so it seems.
When pressed on the matter Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling mumble about tax havens problems and will not accept that their action has taken the KSFIOM deposits of thousands people, many of whom are British passport holders.
Many depositors have been successful in having their MP's write to Mr Darling on the subject, but he has ignored these letters and seems either unable or unwilling to reply.
It might well be that the Government officials are reluctant to admit that their preemptive action caused the failure of the UK and therefore the IOM KSF banks, because in doing so they fear action from the Icelandic government. But in keeping themselves clear from any potential criticism, they have ruined the lives of thousands of depositors who put their savings in a completely solvent bank.
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I am a German, married to an Englishman, we have two children. I have always felt just as at home in the UK as I do in Germany. In fact, we are currently in the process of moving from Germany back to the UK. At present we cannot buy the house that we have been looking forward to so long, we do not know when and how much of our money deposited in KSF (IOM) we will ever see again and whilst the people "up there" are still deliberating over the eventual outcome of this bank, the debts in our house are increasing by the minute.
If we come out of this mess in one piece and get all our money back we will do the following:
1. Vote to have Brown and Darling kicked out of government.
2. Take all our savings and put it into property, not banks and
3. Vote with our own two feet
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Thank you for covering the story.We too are in the same position as many people that have posted comments, we have lost all our savings!
Our account was with the Derbyshire and trusting, as we naively are, we kept our money with Kaupthing SF IOM. The rest is like a bad dream. We tried to transfer OUR money to the UK, when we realised the problem with Icelandic banks, only to find it "frozen" between accounts, by the UK Government.
We live and work here in the UK. I work with children with Special Needs in education and, although it is rewarding, it does not bring in a large wage packet or pay a lifechanging pension.
Please try and help us get to the bottom of this as we are being kept in the dark as to what really happened.
We want our money back.
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Having read the stories it is hard to think of anything new to say. My story is far from unique and not as desperate as some I know. For the record; UK citizen and resident for 40 years, company merger and job move to Europe, proceeds of UK house sale with Derbyshire, tax paid in France, money needed for university fees.
Watching all the government rescue schemes being proudly unveiled we appear to be the forgotten few(thousand). Either overlooked or acceptable collateral damage in some political battle regarding the status of the Isle of Man.
With political will I believe a sensible solution can be found and one which makes economic sense as well. The government spend billions to cut VAT to encourage spending. How about spending a fraction of that to underwrite a loan to Iceland or the Isle of Man or another bank to restructure the bank as a going concern and return our hard earned savings? Who knows we might even spend it and start the economy moving again.
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Thank you so much for airing our story. Ours is nothing remarkable in fact frighteningly ordinary. We are such ordinary people we could never have believed that we would be caught up in such an unbelievable event. It was never in our psychology that a bank could go bankrupt. We felt that 'saving' in a bank account was totally secure and we believed that our money was safe. We had no secret agenda to reduce our tax payments or avoid taxes ... we have no idea how to even go about anything like tax avoidance. We had our money safe in an Egg account (which we had held for about 10 years). A few months ago Egg wrote to us requesting that we close the account as we are no longer UK residents. As we have been retired in France for 2 years now this came as a surprise. We had maintained our account with Egg during the 2 years and encountered no problems. I challenged Egg on the grounds that the interest on this account had been declared to the Inland Revenue and everything was definitely above board. Egg insisted that we had to close the account. We searched for alternative UK savings accounts but were as non-residents we were not permitted to open an account. Finally we stumbled across Kaupthing Edge Isle of Man and we believed this would be the next best thing to holding an account in the UK. We naively transferred all of the money from Egg to KE feeling relieved that we had found a home for our money. Now we have lost all of it. We are unremarkable, but honest, hard-working people. We have been prudent and saved for many years for a secure, modest retirement. We felt we had earned our retirement and peace of mind. Quite frankly we don't know what has hit us. We can't believe the money is gone ... our future, our children's future. When we see the Prime Minister talking in interviews saying he is concerned about families who are hit by the recession and he is keen to relieve the situation of people who may loose their jobs, their homes etc. Many of us have been put in the same kind of desperate circumstances as a direct result of the government's own actions and yet they refuse to acknowledge our plight or take action to alleviate our situation. We are unable to find work at this age, or to rebuild our lives. We are totally devasted that the British Government can turn their backs on people like us who have worked hard in Britain for all of our lives. It is simply shameful.
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I have gone through so many emotions in the last few weeks - shock, anger, frustration, overwhelming compassion for other savers facing such terrible circumstances, a terrible sense of injustice....
I am a prudent British saver who put money into an IOM account because my non-resident status meant I couldn't open a UK bank account. I didn't speculate in hedge funds, derivatives or complex financial instruments and I wasn't out for a fast buck, I simply put cash into a reputable bank (the Derbyshire).
I have a substantial amount of money at stake in KSFIOM but what has rocked me to the core is how this situation has challenged my whole sense of what it means to be British - ideas of 'fair play', justice, honour and duty and basic rights have all been torn to shreds. I feel I am the citizen of a tinpot dictatorship and the enormous sense of pride I have always had at being British is wavering.
I feel I have been left out to dry by the UK government and - worst still - am being absolutely castigated by the likes of Alistair Darling for my expat status. Doesn't the UK government realise that working expats play a vital role in UK trade and export and that we are all ambassadors for the UK?
I don't want compensation - I simply want my money back, is that too much to ask?
The UK is constitutionally bound to represent the interests of the Crown Dependencies in international affairs, including discussions with Iceland. The recent unwarranted attacks on the Isle of Man by the UK don't give me much confidence that my interests are being represented at the highest levels. I feel totally powerless.
Thank you BBC for listening. There have been times in the last 7 weeks since KSF IOM went into provisional liquidation that I have felt I have no voice. There are many stories here worth investigating.
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We all have heart rendering tales.
After 20 years I decided to take time out and repay something to society - a big mistake!
I sold up, put everything in the derbyshire building society, now there's a good name I thought, and started charity work in the far east.
Derbyshire say "ooh have to move you offshore". I didn't ask why (should have done).
Next minute derbyshire sell out to ksf and boom its all gone.
A life time of work and now I have nought except the fabulous people I work with who are so appreciative.
We get on so well but I am getting older and will not be able to help for much longer and too old to beg on London's streets.
Thank you the Isle of Man I was so wise to trust you
Thank you Derbyshire you sold me down the river for a piece of silver
Thank you UK for some bizarre reason cited as money laundering prevention from stopping me having a UK bank account when its branches of the same banks in the IOM!!
The Isle of Man, like Iceland has got far too big for its boots. Its finance industry dwarfs its GDP; a slight hiccup and the Isle of Man is in deep trouble.
A lesson to learn - for me don't bank offshore (not a problem now as I have nothing to bank)
for the UK - persuade the UK banches of offshore banks in fragile places such as the Isle of Man to accept accounts from ex pats. Surely the money laundering rules are the same?
Soon to be destitute, homeless and a cold hungry beggar in London.
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Both I and my parents are expats. I reside in Sweden, and my parents in Malta.
I'll get to the point... My parents entrusted me into saving their life savings. Both are pensioners, but my dad continues to do some part-time work to keep surviving. I therefore wanted 'no risk' savings with a good interest rate. I chose Landsbanki Guernsey, over a year ago, and deposited all their life savings over a 5 year period.
When I heard Landsbanki went bust, I didnt fully understand at first what it all meant. Excuse my ignorance but I am a Joe Bloggs who has no experience at all in the banking world. So, when I read into it deeper, and found out exactly what it meant for my parents life savings...it dawned on me... Sheer devastation, at a point of suicidal. I blamed myself at first and planned on how I could pay them back. It was an impossibility.
I wrote to the Government of Guernsey, the Administrators, the Icelandic Prime Minister, and also the British Government for help. Called all by phone, and not a single reply except for the standard stuff from the Administrators.
In a state of shock I did everything I thought possible to try to make people understand that they were dealing with NORMAL people here, and not mythical tax dodgers. I even had stupid thoughts about going to Iceland myself and confronting the people responsible for stealing my parents life savings... Then I would rob a bank and talke only what belong to them... Strange thoughts but I really felt this way.
Now, a few months on, its still like a dream. We have since been given back a small percentage, but I want ALL back. Every single last penny. I will NOT stop in my quest for my money back from these theiving banks.
Anger isnt the word how I feel. I leave it now to those who speak the banking language, to hopefully get some reward. I fear my swashbuckling style could make it worse.
WE WANT OUR MONEY BACK NOW. My parents are not getting younger. JUSTICE FOR LANDSBANKI GUERNSEY DEPOSITORS.
/R Moore. British Expat.
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Perhaps some one could ask the Chancellor for the answer to the following query, which I sent to the FSCS in the UK:-
If the British government now owns a 57.9% stake ( Tax Payers Money )in RBS, who owns RBS international,who have offshore branches in Jersey, Guernsey & Isle of Man, who owns IOM Bank & Nat West amongst others. If any of these banking institutions should now fail, who is now responsible for the compensation of depositor's in these fine banking institutions, or is this what the treasury revue of "Offshore Tax Havens" is all about, to introduce a credible IOM compensation scheme backed by the UK mainland?? / Talk about a double standard !!
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Peeved that my bank in England transferred my account to its Isle of Man branch when I moved abroad, I moved to The Derbyshire Building Society on the same tiny island. The Derbyshire's directors sold out to a "North European" bank: Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander Isle of Man (KSF IoM), fooling me into thinking it was a German bank (with a strong economy backed by the euro). It is actually based on another tiny island, Iceland: a country not in the EU, with a tiny population barely twice that of Southend, teetering on its own tiny currency. Nevertheless, the parental guarantee (100%, no less!), the IoM compensation scheme, and (uselessly) proximity to the UK soothed my fraying nerves.
Suddenly startled by Iceland's economy, actions by the UK government drove the Kaupthing UK subsidiary into administration - holding half a billion pounds of money from the depositors of KSF IoM, thereby forcing KSF IoM into liquidation, and the depositors into deep despair.
The UK government is evading its responsibility to the thousands of decent UK men and women it has crushed.
Solve this injustice by returning the £550m from the Kaupthing UK administrator to KSF IoM! It's that simple!
A member of the depositors action group (www.ksfiomdepositors.org).
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I am also a depositor with KSFIOM living and working in Thailand. I am 58 and what I had (I thought) carefully saved over the years is all I have to live on when I retire. I will receive no pension whatsoever, and I still have two children to educate.
What distresses me most about this whole sorry mess is that many expats like myself have had to endure not one particular injustice, but a whole catalogue of acts of deception, of being ignored, misled, and of generally being given the runaround, leading ultimately to the questionable actions of the British Government in October. Their greatest crime up 'til now has been their constant denial of any wrong doing or refusal to take any responsibility for their actions in regard to the offshore banks.
But there are other injustices too which led to all this. When I lived in England I banked with Barclays. I started working in the oil exploration business based in the UK. My salary was going straight into my Barclays account for which they charged me a cosiderable amount every month. I have had accounts with Barclays in the UK for 37 years. I still have one now - a small amount in a current account which has been frozen. This is because I refuse to pay 10 pounds a month for the privilege of having a savings account in the UK paying less than 1% interest. I have not had to pay tax on any interest I have earned in the UK because I signed a form many years ago to say I was a non-resident. So when I started moving my money to Derbyshire in the IOM it was not to avoid tax, it was just because I was promised and was given far better service than Barclays were offering.
After 2005 Barclays "International" in Knightsbridge didn't even bother to answer my letters, and phoning them from Thailand was a waste of time and money.
The other injustices are well chronicled here. The take-over of Derbyshire by Kaupthing with so little warning. The misleading letters we received from both Derbyshire and KSF. The worthless parental guarantee. The glossy brochure from KSF which I believe deliberately deceived us about both the origins and status of Kaupthing Bank. How many of us would have kept all our money there if we had known that it was an Icelandic bank? Finally, the transfer of most of KSF's funds to the UK, obviously without due care or sufficient guarantees.
All these things have shattered my faith in all I used to believe in, and in all I used to think was good about Britain. The BBC is about all that's left and I thank you for giving me this space.
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Why is the UK Government withholding information that is so relevant to the whole KSF IoM situation - why all the sealed documents? - Why is Alistair Darling so obsessed in ruining the lives of around 8,000 mainly british citizens? It seems that the British government has stolen money from KSF IoM depositors (many of whom are British) to pay back other British subjects that they have promised to bail out!!! Cant anyone else smell something nasty in all this? Perhaps the Labour government is not so people friendly.
We are hard working people who have paid our taxes and who have believed in saving money for our retirement - all this has been taken away - by the actions of the British Government. They have blocked us a a group of people for having a representative at the creditors meeting and to have a petition at number 10 web site!!! Why?
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The answers are a little mundane I'm afraid.
Darling and the Treasury made a mistake when they froze KSF UK's assets. They froze the assets to ensure the UK Gov would get its money back after compensating UK depositors. Basically we are the source of funds that will pay back the UK Government. When they froze KSF UK it was a knee jerk reaction and they hadnt taken into consideration that it would directly cause the downfall of KSFIOM and the destruction of so many British lives and families.
The real issue is that since they did the deed they have gone into mega overdrive to coverup the mistake and hush it all up. To admit a mistake had been made would be against office policy. That is why the only noises have come from backbenchers; look at the lies Ian Pearson told Parliament, reading from a script, when he said that there was no problem opening onshore accounts and that there was no reason we should have opened accounts in IOM (implying that we opened offshore accounts for other darker purposes - Tax evasion). I'm afraid it really is as simple as that; we know Ian Pearson mislead Parliament, but i dont see any enquiry or questions being asked.
This Gordon Brown led administration made a mamoth great foul up and since then they have been more interested in playing 'great leaders' than actually being good leaders and correcting the mistakes. Result is that they have destroyed lives and families without giving a damn.
I'm on the streets, my family is thousands of miles away, i sleep some nights at a St Vinnies shelter and get food from the Salvos and dustbins. Yet just 8 weeks ago i had a loving family with me, a roof, clean paid-for food, and a prospect. Now i just have anger; when that goes its depression and a bridge somewhere. Happy Christmas Brown.
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I am a British expatriate working in Malaysia. I do not have an address in the UK and hence cannot bank in the UK as any high street bank make this a requirement. The Government is trying to keep a key aspect of this sad story silent in my view. It acted without thinking and by using anti-terrorist laws to freeze the assets of Icelandic banks, supposedly to protect British depositors, it has caused the collapse of KSF in the Isle of Man and another group of British depositors have now lost their life savings. The government would have you believe we are all multi millionaire tax dodgers which we are not. We are a group of ordinary Brits trying to get by like everyone else. The government infer we are looking to them for compensation - rubbish, all we have asked is that they return 550 million pounds of our money deposited in the UK bank by its Isle of Man sister bank. The government are refusing to return our savings and are content to leave us destitute. They are now terrorising us; and we face ruin because of their illconceived actions.
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I am an Isle of Man resident and depositor (note NOT an investor, there is an important difference) in KSFIOM and stand to lose GBP187k through this desperate situation.
To say we are 'a tax haven sitting in the middle of the Irish Sea' is highly unfair. We are a small, proud nation who through prudent management of its own economy for the last 20/25 years has carved itself out a niche as an INTERNATIONAL finance centre with the ability to set its own taxes at a sustainable rate for its own economy. Why is this such a problem for the UK?
We are operating in an environment that is just as well regulated and compliant with money laundering and fraud standards as the UK.
Indeed, over the last few years we have information sharing arrangements and double taxation agreements set up with a number of nations, the USA and the UK included. We are transparent and operating in a global market.
The UK should ask the rest of Europe whether they consider the UK itself to be a tax haven or not?
The non-dom issue which allows wealthy foreign nationals to live in the UK but not be taxed on their worldwide (non UK based) income is a source of major frustration for other European nations, but as the UK Govt well know, these individuals bring enormous prosperity, benefits and employment to the UK through ancillary services required to further their businesses.
There is a growing feeling on the Island that we (all offshore depositors, in many cases UK DOMICILED people, and I include myself as a "British Citizens") are being left "hung out to dry".
Only time will tell if this proves to be true, because maybe there is a scenario whereby the actions of the UK Government could inadvertently have protected the KSFIOM depositors. If the administrators of KSFUK will be able recover sufficient assets (which were frozen by UK Govt) to cover the GBP4.7bn liabilities of the KSFUK, rather than the assets being sucked back to Iceland and lost, then there should be a full payout to all KSFUK creditors, including KSFIOM.
However, this does not help some of the people who have had no access to their cash for 2 months now and many of whom are getting desperate.
I do believe the IoM Government are doing all in their power to recover as much for depositors as possible, it is after all very much in their interest.
I am glad that I have a Government that is doing its level best to recover my assets and feel deep sympathy for the UK Citizens based offshore whose Government is washing its hands of them.
To improve the economic situation in the UK, surely they should be encouraging expats to work abroad to stimulate trade with foreign nations and hence increase demand for British goods. Can't see that happening if the UK Government isn't interested in its expats....
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My story isn’t much different to the others, born and lived most my life in UK married an Australian girl.
Basically I work offshore overseas, anybody tell you its OK or easy to open A/C in UK hasn’t tried, especially via internet access, there still branches that require you to go into your branch to do a transfer, not easy if your halfway across the globe.
Basically we had our flat in UK for the last 10 years rented out and we complied with Inland revenues non-resident landlord scheme. Completing our Tax return annually. Tax dodgers???
Then we got divorced, hence I found out how easy it isn’t to open my own account from overseas.
So 50% of the sale in February went to my wife who took it to Australia, my 50% went to one of the only banks I could do via internet from overseas KSFIOM along with my savings in June, safely deposited whilst I looked for another place in UK I could afford.
Thinking it was safe in IOM in sterling, I now have my life’s worth, over 100k sterling in limbo.
My last 2 pay cheques went into that A/C, and my visa card won’t increase my limit due to the current economic climate. I haven’t had access to my account since early October if I ever have access again??
Luckily I have good friends to help me through this, hopefully I’ll be returned my money so I can repay them and not fall into debt.
Basically I don’t understand how the UK Treasury can take over the rights of the KSF as a whole, “to maintain the stability of the UK financial system”.
Then ensure KSF UK parties are entitled to their deposits and KSF IOM who actually had 600mil. In the UK left high and dry. This surely is criminal, I’m no Lawyer but surely to pass a legislation to stop a whole bank operating to protect your branch isn’t exactly legitimate.
It’s a big suspicious mess.
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Please do not forget the 2,033 depositors of Landsbanki Guernsey. There are less of us than KSF IOM depositors so we are finding it harder to be heard (or should I say it's easier for the authorities to ignore us?!).
When does a British Citizen no longer qualify as a British Citizen?
Once they move abroad. Or so it seems from how the British Government has behaved towards ex-pats these last two months.
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After 20 years of working abroad saving all I could, with nowhere to call home as always finding myself one step behind the property markets I finally managed to secure a home in the summer this year. Placing a £47k deposit I am due to complete on the purchase next week.
Now having lost my job and my savings in KSFIOM I am probably not only unable to complete the purchase but will lose my deposit.
What the UK government has done in freezing assets of a foreign bank and then refusing to return them to their rightful owners is unforgivable and probably illegal.
Whilst Brown and Darling are sitting comfortably in their homes everynight spare a thought for the likes of us who stand to lose everything they have worked for their entire lives and get left with no home, no job, no money to live on through no fault of their own all because this corrupt government want to play politics with totally ligitament offshore banking centres. If we are all tax evading criminals sue us! You can't have it both ways.
This government has eroded basic human rights for all it's citizens to a level comparable with rogue states around the world.
I am not the criminal Mr Darling, you are!
In my mind this whole affair is worthy of bringing down this miserable excuse for a government along with it's UNELECTED prime minister if only the Conservatives had the strength of character to attack them over it. They have been given the ammo so why not use it? That is what they are there for!!!
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I am a 44 year old currently working and living in Spain with my young family. Last year I sold a property in the UK and put the proceeds into Kaupthing Isle of Man which on 9th October was put into Provisional Liquidation as it had 500 Million pounds of mine and my fellow 10,800(mainly British) savers' money deposited in Kaupthing UK seized by the UK Government when it seized Icelandic bank assets and placed Kaupthing UK into administration using emergency legislation to protect British savers on October 8th
Well this British saver who was hoping to return to the UK to buy a house and now cannot has been completely ignored by Brown and Darling.They insist that this matter has nothing to do with them. This is a lie. They placed Kaupthing UK into administration and our Isle Of Man Bank would be perfectly solvent if they authorised the release of this money 'frozen' in Kaupthing UK to be returned by the administrators to the Isle of Man.
To make matters worse they have been painting us depositors as tax avoiders. Another lie. I pay all taxes due in Spain and England.
We dont want special treatment we just want the Government to release the funds they have seized. I simply cannot believe they are going to try and use thousands of expat UK depositors money to get back the 3.5 Billion they spent on guaranteeing and transferring the accounts of thousands of savers with Kaupthing UK some of whom werent even British to Ing. Talk about robbing Peter who is working hard flying the British flag abroad to pay Paul.
Having been directly responsible for the loss of our savings Brown and Darling have been blaming others for our plight and treating our plees for fair treatment with disdain presumably because they think we cannot vote and because we are living abroad and shouldnt have put our money in the Isle Of Man even though many of us without a UK address had no choice as we could not open an account in the UK. We don't want to be bailed out we just want the Government to release the money they have seized. I feel as I have been robbed and left on the street by the leaders own country
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Working in Taiwan for now almost 19 years as a charity worker in a disabled organisation my offshore funds are for eventual return to the UK and retirement protection. As a non-UK resident I am forbidden to open a UK account so therefore forced offshore if I want to keep my savings in Sterling and not take a risk with local currency. Seeing the 100% guarantee by Kaupthing, and which the IOM govt approved, why should I not believe my savings were safe. Now I find due to dubious terrorist rules applied to Iceland by my own UK govt, I have lost my life savings. Now the UK govt. whose aggressive actions froze 550m of the banks funds in the UK, washes its hands of the whole matter, and wrongly and insensitively talks about IOM tax havens and tax evaders. The slightest bit of research would have told them that most Kaupthing offshore depositors are like me, just normal UK expats with nowhere else to put their retirement savings. Just what is the agenda behind them marginalising us in this way is beyond me. The harsh words from Darling and others about offshore depositors show a total disregard for the human cost of around 800 of its own citizens who have lost their savings, many of whom are now in tragic circumstances.
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I sold my house to pay for specialist private education for my son who has special needs and was suicidal due to bulllying and inability to move forward in mainstream education with little to none special provision. I placed most of the capital in KSF IoM as it was top of the league table for savings in popular media such as The Guardian and The Times. I thought it was a safe, prudent investment. We now live in rented accomodation which we will shortly be unable to pay for. My son is unaware that the money paying for his school is locked up on an island somewhere. I will shortly be unable to pay for his school - how am I going to explain that to him? He was starting to make such good progress in his new envirnment. Please, for our sakes and our childrens' , give our money back!!!!
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I am retired & living in France. After working from the age of 15 years I survive on the small pittance of the state pension and my savings. I was not fortunate enough to be able to join a company pension scheme. So the alternative was to save hard to support my retirement and invest my savings to obtain the best return. Everthing pointed to KSF IOM which because I live in France was the only option as I am unable to save in the UK. Where is it now? being held in the UK. If my money is not returned my only option is to return to the UK and become dependant on the state. After a lifetime of working to support myself I find it difficult to come to terms that my government would effectively steal my savings. Tax has been paid on all my earnings and I pay tax in France & UK. Where have I gone wrong? When will my savings be returned. Please help resolve this incredible situation.
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I was always told that money in the bank was more secure than in stocks or other investments. When my parenets passed away, I sold the house as a basis for my pension. I work in Thailand and there is no pension and precious few social services. The high street banks would not open an account as I no longer had a British address. I have always volunteered for activities that help society and believed that I had enough to feed and clothe myself, my Thai wife and her parents.
I thought depositing in the Derbyshire would be a safe bet for my future. Unlike others, I received no notification from the Derbyshire that they had given my savings to another bank. I was given no option before the KSF IOM took over. The new bank's adverising and website information led me to believe it was a German bank - deliberate trickery on its part I might add.
Now I have no savings, just a small salary for a few years more until compulsory retirement. Visa rules in Thailand make it very difficult to stay unless there is money coming in from abroad. My wife is upset every day when she sees how depressed I am. My understanding is that foreign wives and immediate family will not get automatic right of abode in the UK, yet the only option I have is to return to the UK upon retirement and find ways to receive state assistance. Brown and Darling had no reason to keep the money deposited by people like us in the Isle of Man. I am British born and bred. How can I take care of myself and my family with no money? Will the government provide for us upon my retirement? I am not a tax dodger. My life savings have been stolen by the British Government and I will not be able to live on what I can make between now and retirement.
Thank you to the BBC for taking such an interest in those of us devasted by the actions of an irresponsible government.
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Thank you BBC for taking a much needed interest in our case, we are members of a very large, very desperate group, which all the authorities (excluding IoM) are successfully ignoring. Whenever the Kaupthing Singer Freidlander (IoM) name crops up, the UK Government begin chanting 'Tax Haven' comments.
We are not tax dodgers, the monies involved are hard earned (taxed) income, earning (taxable) interest.
As previous comments state - whilst we too are shoring up UK banks - we are not after a 'bail out', we simply want our savings back.
This was not investing/gambling on stocks and shares, it should all have been perfectly safe savings.
Our lives have been completely shattered by this, through no fault of our own, we are unable to sleep or eat properly. Other peoples lives have been shattered by this, many without other sources of income with which to survive. Others having house sale monies sat there whilst buying a new home, their whole lives gone in one foul move.
Merry Christmas Mr Brown and Darling - ours won't be.
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I had my life savings in Landsbanki Guernsey. Why? I moved to Malta in April on health grounds. I had savings in Icesave. They informed me I would have to remove my funds as I would no longer be "resident" in the UK. So I put them in Landsbanki Guernsey. I am devastated that there is no protection having been forced to move my savings.
I am a retired civil servant and the employment pension I receive is taxed in the UK as it is for all retired government employees.
I believe we depositors deserve the same 100% protection afforded to depositors in other banks and I will do everything I can to achieve this.
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KSF--IOM
We are UK citizens but living in Spain. In May we put our life savings into a bond with Norwich Union (Ireland). They in turn on our behalf deposited that money into three accounts with KSF--IOM.As we are not classed as retail investors, we are not covered by the IOM compensation scheme. Norwich Union in total will only receive £20000 we understand. We are now told that the bank has been given another 60 days to find a buyer. How can this be done unless the UK Govt releases the assets that they are holding for this bank? I have just received a statement from NU showing that there is now only £1 in each of the three accounts. Devastating to see this news in actual print!!
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We have run a small property company for the last twenty years. We were advised by another bank that to exchange dollars to sterling in a timely manner we should use Singer Friedlander (IOM). We have placed all of our earnings in this bank for over ten years.
In January 2009 we had planned to retire as we are both 64 years old. We have lost £380,000 which was supposed to take care of us in our old age. All we have is a stement from Singer Friedlander with ZERO in the balance.
We did not bank with IOM for any other reason than the ease of transferring dollars to sterling. We have paid our income tax, corporation tax and tax on our interest, we have not tried to avoid paying any tax to the HMG.
All Alistair Darling has to say is we must look into 'tax havens' if he did check our bank he would see that all taxes are fully paid up, why has nobody from HMG bothered to find out if we pay tax or not?
Since 8th October when we heard the news that all of our funds were lost we have been devastated and desperate to know what we can do to regain what is rightfully ours. We have done nothing wrong, why should we have to suffer for something that has been taken completely out of our hands?
We feel that HMG are doing nothing to help us, surely this government cannot sit back and ignore the plight of so many people, really desperate people who do not know which way to turn to get our story heard.
We thank the BBC for showing our story on The Polictics Show and for this web site, we just hope that the right people are reading these stories and that someone will help us to regain our funds.
We are asking for nothing more than what we have a right to and that is the safe return of OUR OWN MONEY.
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To UK MPs'
Would you please join other mindful MPs’ to sanction the only possible solution to this awful situation which has brought needless dread and fearful anxiety to so many ill fated savers with KSFIOM? Their very life-savings are denied them; they cannot pay their bills; many are far from home without any means of return – and remedy is beyond their reach.
Messrs Darling and Brown brought this calamity upon thousands of ordinary British subjects and though this disastrous outcome occured without alleged intent, it was still of their doing; they are responsible and need to own this liability and make amends. It must be said that if these gentlemen had no intention of bringing harm to the Isle of Man or the KSFIoM customers, then an immediate move to return the latter’s property would make such assertions believable, whereas their very reluctance to let-by the imposition of the Transfer Order makes their complicity in this event appear ever more likely.
The monies required to resolve this situation reside within Kaupthing UK and are identified as belonging to the Isle of Man. It is the constitutional duty of HMG to accept this sovereign debt and return that asset in kind to the jurisdiction of the Isle of Man pending liquidation of the UK bank. Inherently we all know this to be the only honourable and equitable remedy to effect a timely solution and provide immediate aid to people who desperately need reassurance and help right now. The Government simply has no recourse but to accept responsibility for the consequences it has inflicted upon hapless citizens who were quite properly using a regulated banking institution within a Crown Dependency until UK action brought about this unprecedented and abhorent situation. HMG must be compelled to act in a manner befitting a Government of the British people - and soon.
Ice
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Dear BBC,
I am a British Citizen, living in the UK and retired earlier this year, having sold my business. I didn't want to put my money into equities or other risky investments, just in a safe bank account where I could earn a reasonable rate of interest. I employed a financial advisor and he recommended I put my money into Singer and Friedlander via Prudential Insurance. I read their documentation and was told my money was guaranteed by KSF and the Icelandic Govt and the banks credit rating was excellent. So a safe place to invest my money. Wrong! I have lost a significant proportion of my life's savings. I've paid UK taxes all my life and don't understand why this government isn't supporting me and people like me when we are no different to other UK investors. The real joke is that, having invested through Prudential (for added safety), if there is a partial repayment, Prudential will count as one investor and their allocation will have to be shared by all the Prudential (KSF) investors. So my share will be very small indeed. I don't understand why, in the present circumstances, that Prudential are not offering to compensate THEIR investors in KSF. Surely they should have some liability?
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Thank you BBC for taking an interest in our plight.
We relocated to the US in August and prior to that sold our house and everything else beforehand. Thinking that money would be safe in a bank we placed all of our life savings with KSF in the Isle of Man (as recommended by our Financial Advisor), except the money we needed to buy a business to qualify for our Visa.
We are now in a position where we have lost our money that secured our future, have no money to invest in the business we bought which is struggling to survive due to the economy and had to put our house here in the US on the market as we can no longer afford the mortgage after December. We have $80 a week for food and expenses. We are completely ruined and everything we have worked for has gone thanks to the UK government.
The only thing that keeps us sane and going is reminding ourselves of people which are in an even worse position due to health, war, etc.
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Even after eight weeks I am still can't really believe that apparently the UK government has been responsible for all of my savings disappearing. My divorce settlement (proceeds from selling the house) was to supplement my pension as I had worked part-time while raising our children. All of this was deposited with KSFIOM. I hadn't squandered the settlement or invested in a dodgy share deal. I had deposited it in a bank. So why can't the 550mGBP be returned from its 'safe keeping' in the UK and given back to its rightful owners? It is our money. Thank you BBC for highlighting the dreadful situation in which thousands of us have been palced.
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Until one has been in such a situation, it is difficult to appreciate the level of frustration and fear. Frustration that nothing (postive) seems to be happening, frustration with the lack of communication, frustration with the lies that are being spread about the nature of the depositors as "fat-cat tax evaders". Frustration in reading that yet another UK bank guilty of lending millions to people unlikely to repay the loans is to be bailed out by the UK government, at the taxpayers' expense of course.
Fear at the prospect of never ever seeing any of the hard-earned money deposited with KSF IoM again. Deposited there because as BRITISH expats we are unable to open new bank accounts in the UK, NOT to avoid tax. Fear at what will happen to countless members of the depositors group who are destitute RIGHT NOW, divested of THEIR own money by virtue of what seems to be an illegal act on the part of the UK government. Destitute as in don't have money to cover daily costs, including food. Only two months ago these people were solvent, possibly looking forward to retiring with their own investments, not dependent on handouts from the government, and now nothing. No hope, it would seem. There could be some very, very tragic consequences of this action by Brown and Darling.
It would also appear that there is a conspiracy against the group of depositors, in that postings to media websites/forums attempting to put our case are rejected. Difficult to prove, and not easy to quantify, but nevertheless it is happening. It is therefore gratifying to know that the BBC has shown an interest in the plight of our group and published so many of our tales of plight. Let us hope that this may yet have a happy ending!
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The likelihood of this becoming a legal issue is drawing close, with the depositors suing the IOM government through their financial regulator (for suggesting to move the £550M to the UK) with the IOM Government either caving in and paying (for the greater good of he IOM banking industry) or suing the UK Government for exactly the same reasons that the Icelandic government were planning - the bringing down of an otherwise stable and liquid bank by the actions of the UK.
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Quite frankly this is killing us.
The stress and anxiety that we have all been undergoing for the last terrible 8 weeks has already resulted in one attempted suicide .
All of us are sick with worry.
We have aged.
What is going to happen to us?
Why are we being treated like pariahs?
Why is no one speaking to us?
Yet where ever we turn people are being helped out.
People who took massive mortgages are given leeway British people who have saved aren't even given an answer.
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Thanks to the BBC for keeping our story in the limelight. We need you. Do you not have any "forensic" journalists who can get to the bottom of the UK government's dirty actions. They are simply holding all of us hostage, whilst they smear the reputation of offshore banking. What justification do they have in rescuing some depositors over others?
My parents had a small business in Yorks for 50 years. They worked 6 days per week, 12hrs per day. Their ultimate goal was to save for retirement, so as not to be a burden to the state. They have paid 100's thousands pounds in taxes, and continue to pay taxes to these criminals. These are the thanks that Brown and Darling render to prudent hard-working Brits such as my parents.
No words can describe the hatred that I have towards the present government. So many lives in ruins. There will be justice one day... I am convinced.
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I can not agree more with my colleagues in the previous postings. Not having a UK domicile or an address should not be the basis of a discriminatory treatment for an account in what is very much a British territory, regulated along UK lines for all practical purposes.
In any case, given the history of this sorry state, in which, the FSA in IOM was clearly asked to transfer KSF IoM funds to UK in good faith just as part of the adminitration process, it is only fair that the portion of KSF IoM that was moved to KSF UK in Wk2 of October, be recredited to the administrators of KSF IOM.
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Thank you BBC for taking an interest in the plight of the IOM depositers
I am luckier than most of those have posted. Although I have lost most of my life savings, I am not retired and still have income to pay the rent and food; unlike many of the KSF(IOM) depositors; some of whom have effectively resorted to begging to get by. These are British citizens living at home and abroad who have inaccurately been inferred as tax dodgers by the spin machine of their own government.
The question remains as to why the UK government siezed funds of a solvent bank and justified their actions through what have since been shown to be a false representation of discussions with Iceland; irrespective of whether the bank would have failed in the long run. Why are the relevant court papers sealed if our government does not have anything to hide?
Why has the chancellor stated that the seized funds do not belong to the government in the knowledge that the Treasury has given itself the authority as to how much if any will be returned?
There is no legal requirement for the UK Government to compensate savers in IOM (UK) just as there is no legal requirement for UK based banks to lower their mortgage rates in line with the recent interest rate reduction. Yet, the UK government has announced that it expects the banks to do what is morally and ethically right (lower mortgage rates) but does not consider that it has a moral obligation to return seized KSF(IOM) deposits to savers. The least we should expect is some consistency from our elected representatives rather than the all apparent hypocrisy of their voter manipulation.
There is far more to this debacle than a simple blog allows time or space for. The role of the IOM government and regulators and KSF(IOM) need to be fully established. Only a thorough investigation will establish why so many people are seeing their lives shattered in the name of politics.
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Let Right Be Done…
Last night we happened to be watching The Winslow Boy, the 1999 film of Terence Rattigan’s play, which is based on the true story of a 1908 legal battle between the family of a boy wrongly accused of stealing a postal order and the Admiralty. The film centred on the principle of right, emphasising this quotation: “Let right be done”.
The principle of Right: it seems pertinent…
What has happened to the people whose stories we read about on this website and others seems plainly wrong. They – we – placed our money, our savings, for safekeeping, in a bank. We have since been castigated for chasing high interest rates/banking offshore/banking with a non-UK bank/putting “all our eggs in one basket”, and treated – by some – as if we are now simply receiving our just deserts.
I do not understand why we should have to defend ourselves against any of these opinions. I also do not understand why the UK Government, rather than showing compassion and understanding, and attempting to help us in and through this dreadful situation, seems not only to have been completely dismissive of our plight, but also has raised the issues of tax havens and tax avoidance, and linked them with our situation. I am particularly concerned by the apparent lack of support shown by the UK Treasury for the Isle of Man given that it is the responsibility of the UK Government to represent the Crown Dependency of the Isle of Man in international discussions and negotiations (with Iceland, for example).
Our own situation seems very similar to that of many others. After working for more than forty years we are about to retire. We thus sold our UK home and surrendered investment bonds, such that our savings would be liquid prior to the point of retirement, and we would be able to purchase a suitable home for our retirement, and finance our future from the point of retirement onwards. Having sought professional advice with regard to selecting a completely safe place for our funds, we opened an account with Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander in the Isle of Man, and placed our funds there. (It is legal, and normal for expatriates, to bank offshore: it is not tax avoidance or evasion.)
We are both British and have spent most of our adult lives working, as educators, in Asia and Africa. We consider that, like other expatriates, we have been both representatives of and ambassadors for Britain, continuing to support the UK, and helping to fill its coffers, whilst living outside of the country.
Having worked very hard and having saved very carefully over all these years, we now find ourselves facing a very frightening and very uncertain future. We have no other savings.
This debacle has struck all of those involved at the very basis of life – the ability to provide oneself and one’s loved ones with shelter, food and security. Many of the stories are truly terrible.
I thank Mr Mair and Mr Vallance for their consideration of this issue, and for their balanced and sensitive treatment of our plight on the PM programme.
When, though, is the UK Government – Her Majesty’s Government – going to do something to help us retrieve our money?
We are waiting for right to be done.
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My story of limbo has been told many times in this column. Just the names and amounts change. This is not to deny the devastation and sense of despair others are feeling.
Pragmatically, we savers, the Isle of Man and the British Governments need to cooperate and work together to produce a creative win-win-win solution, and to facilitate such a situation – and the restoration of our lives – the UK Treasury (HM Government) needs to return KSFIOM funds to KSFIOM.
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My husband and I both worked for the NHS before we moved to the middle east . We were on holiday in Cairo when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait and we lost everything , the only thing left in our house was the piano , half way through the front door. We started again and had been saving for quite a few years with the Derbyshire Building Society . We were informed it had been taken over by a new bank but my husband checked it and it had a AAA rating. We are due to retire this year and the money we have lost in KSF was to pay off our mortgage in the UK. I still believe justice will prevail and haven't given up hope .
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Thank you very much for running the story highlighting our situation. Like many others who are posting comments on this site, my husband and I originally deposited our savings with the Derbyshire Offshore. I stress deposited rather than invested as we were at pains to ensure our money was completely safe as it represented many years of working abroad as teachers. We are both UK citizens working abroad who own a home in the UK. We pay NI contributions, council tax and all tax owing on our UK income. We work abroad due to economic necessity and are certainly not fat cats who are avoiding the Inland Revenue. The money that we had with the Derbyshire - now Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander - is the difference between us being able to fund our own retirement in the UK or being reliant on the UK government.
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I am yet another person living abroad (France) who has my savings in Kaupthing IOM. I am fortunate that I was able to open a Nationwide account before I moved from the UK and I deposited the proceeds from the sale of my house with them.
However, I became concerned when I realised that I would not be covered if there was a problem with the bank. (I did have an Egg account but when I told them of my move from the UK I was told I had to close the account)
I had over £50,000 (not much over) in the Nationwide and became worried that I would not be compensated in full if the bank failed. Gordon Brown started making noises about upping the amount to £50,000 compensation but nothing seemed to be happening so I frantically tried to put some of my savings into another account.
After ringing the UK banks I was told I couldn't open an account with them as I didn't have a UK address.
I looked at the recommended off shore banks and decided on Kaupthing Edge IOM (no idea it was an Icelandic bank!)
My savings were only there a week when Gordon Brown finally said that £50,000 would now be covered in the UK! I transferred my savings back to Nationwide on 7th October and checked after to see my account with Kaupthing showed 0. I then heard that Kaupthing was in fact Iceland owned and that there were problems. Phew I thought - just in time but each time I checked my Nationwide account the money hadn't been credited. Where is it?
I'm a retired OAP with only a very small state pension (didn't have a career - took care of home and family as you did years ago) - divorced in my fifties. I need this money to live on!
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First of all my sincere thanks to the BBC for making sure that this group of UK citizens is not forgotten.
My wife and I opened an offshore bond with Derbyshire IOM with a view to providing us with an income to start a new life abroad. Akin to many people here, we are currently UK resident but opened the offshore bond as you are unable to hold a UK account if you have no permanent UK address - although the UK Government bizarrely refutes this. Perhaps a journalist could trawl the high street banks attempting to open an account with a foreign address? Could prove interesting.
We have worked hard all of our lives, often doing jobs we didn't particularly relish in order to provide for our future. We have never claimed on the welfare state and have been net contributors to the UK economy for decades and yet at the one time we need our Government to do the right thing, we are cut adrift. Whatever the legal rights and wrongs, one thing will stay with me and that is the Government's utter contempt and lack of understanding for our plight. The tax evader mantra is utterly reprehensible and I invite any Government minister to inspect mine and my wife's tax records.
We are not rich people and had enough saved to provide a modest income although even if I were very rich, it wouldn't change the sense of injustice here. Had we invested in high risk stocks and shares and then blown it, well I would probably try and take all this with a forced grin. But we didn't. We invested in deposits with a supposedly solid bank and whatever the details of the KSF IOM saga, I am utterly convinced that our loss of life savings and the Government's actions against Iceland are inextricably linked. Whether the UK Government is legally obliged to help us we will have to wait and see but at the very least, they are morally obliged. I watch my television and see endless examples of where the UK likes to see itself as the 'good guys', helping and providing for many people who come here escaping injustice (there's that word again) or persecution. Well UK Government, charity they say begins at home and we are easy to deal with as we don't actually need your charity - just your intervention in returning what is rightfully ours - our deposits seized in the freezing of Icelandic assets.
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Think of me today Gordon Brown:
I am someone's daughter, mother, sister, wife. I am as important to them as your family are to you. Now, however, I am a cause of concern for all of them. I have lost a huge amount of money from a house sale. I was very stupid and put the proceeds of the sale into KSF IOM via a bond with the Prudential.
Think of me Gordon Brown, and tell me I have lost this money because I was evading tax, or because putting money into KSF IOM was classed as high risk.
Think of me Gordon Brown and understand that I chose this bank for no other reason than it was 'safe' and offered a good interest rate. I do not live abroad.
Put youself in my position Gordon Brown and tell me you wouldn't be angry at HM Government. It is you, Gordon Brown, who has washed your hands of me, who is making sure that Britain believes I am too rich and too dishonest to be considered for any of your time or help - and yet you help so many others: Northern Rock, HBOS, RBS, KSF UK, London Scottish.
I think of you Gordon Brown: I think of the money that is owed to my bank, that if paid back would help get my money back. You could do this for me.
But you don't.
I think of you Gordon Brown, when I think of this money my bank is owed, and whether it is right or not, I think of my money, taken from me by you, being used by you to pay these others you help.
I think of you Gordon Brown, when I think of my tax bill next year and many years to come that will pay for the bail-out of these others you help.
Put yourself in my position Gordon Brown and tell me why HM Government is trying to discredit me and my actions.
Think of me Gordon Brown as I ask for help in retuning my banks money.
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Unhappy Christmas (Kaupthing's Over)
============================
To the tune of Happy Christmas (War is Over)
1. So this is Christmas, it won't be much fun.
Don't think it's all over, we've only just begun.
To fight for our savings, 'coz that's all we had,
The government stole it, in a big smash and grab !
Chorus
A ter-rib-le Christmas and a crappy New Year.
Is all we can hope for, without any cheer.
2. So this is Christmas, and we must be strong.
Must fight for what's owed us, the road will be long.
We will not be beaten, we'll stand for what's right,
You might bring the banks down, but were gonna fight !
[Chorus]
It's not over, we still want it, want our money, nooooow .
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I don't like telling/thinking about this story but feel it must be told. The savings we have in KSFIOM Ltd were to supplement a small pension and pay for the materials to convert a barn in France. We are doing all the manual work ourselves. As a result of money being frozen we couldn't complete the bedroom and bathroom before bad weather set in. We only have the kitchen finished. As a result we are living and sleeping in a caravan with minus temperatures. We can't afford any heating or hot water because the last two pensions payments have gone towards paying the taxes due in November the bulk of which was on the interest from KSF account. So much for not paying tax on our savings. We will just get put in jail if we don't pay, very tempting at the minute.
The only thing I have had to eat for the last month is soup made from pots and carrots, inside of eyes is looking a bit anaemic. The thing I would most like for Christmas is a bath and to wash my matted hair. How I wish now that I had spent my money on nice bath oils and creams instead of buying the cheapest vaseline and saving for my old age.
I cry everytime I hear of some new package to help UK savers/debtors etc.
I am not sure who I blame most IOM or UK but I will never forget. Like everyone I have been through a lot but this has really knocked me for six. I have always been a generous honest person but know I will come out of this episode a bitter dishonest being and someone is to blame for that. Also all of us involved know the short term effects on our health but the long term ones will never be measured.
Thank you BBC for taking an interest. I feel as though everyone else has just left us to die.
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At last someone in the media seems interested in highlighting the plight of KSFIOM depositors and raising the profile. My tale of woe is that on the advice of my financial adviser I invested a considerable amount of hard-earned money in an investment bond with AXA Isle of Man. This was in order to help pay for my elderly mother to spend the remainder of her days in a residential care home, because the Government won't pay for that! I had no awareness of the fact that a large proportion of it was invested with Singer and Friedlander although by the time I found this out it was academic as there was nothing I could do. I was only aware of the situation in October on receipt of a letter from PWC - this and one other letter is the only communication I have received from them. Even then my adviser assured me the funds were 100% safe but in the unlikely event they were not, I would be fully compensated. We all know how wrong this is.
I am still absolutely incredulous at the British Government's actions at causing this problem and the seeming conspiracy of silence surrounding the fact that we depositors stand to lose our hard-earned savings. What is the British Government doing in its discussions with Iceland and the IMF (and other parties) to ensure the return of 100% of funds to British citizens depositing with KSFIOM - it is after all the UK Government's responsibility to represent IOM in matters of foreign affairs. I feel totally abandoned by the Government and the FSA and physically sick when I allow myself to think that I might have lost so much money which seems to have disappeared down a financial black hole. I cannot bear to countenance the consequences of this loss for my mother and myself. Pressure needs to be put on the Government to act and act speedily and explain why ALL UK taxpayers have NOT been protected as a result of the Icelandic banking collapse. Please expose their actions with an in-depth investigation. We just want OUR money returned. We are not millionaires who have sought a tax haven.
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Thankyou BBC for highlighting the plight of Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander IOM. Our story is short .Thirty years of hard work ..left penniless ..without pension , health insurance or a home . Our money appears to have been stolen,by whom we are not certain,and apparently no culprit to be brought to justice.
A very Happy festive season for us all !
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For almost 20 years I held account with Derbyshire Building Society IOM - a loyal customer. Collecting together proceeds from a house sale in the UK, and, not being permitted to open a UK account, I deposited my money in the IOM branch. My 'pension fund', on which I pay tax (on interest) at 20% sat there untouched - safe. Then the Derbyshire sold to what they said was a solidly guaranteed bank (did not mention Iceland) - Kaupthing Singer Friedlander IOM.
In September my wife asked me, after seeing news reports about the credit crisis, is our money safe? Of course I said but I did check. Credit ratings had fallen from their peak and I decided to move my funds. This is a process - to open an account you need notarised passport, proof of address and then a long wait for a reply and an account number.
When I finally gave instructions to transfer I called the bank to confirm - no one answered the phone. So October 7 I flew to the IOM. Arriving on the 8th, I learned from the taxi driver, as I raced to the bank, that it had closed.
Since then I have had to face the fact that I have lost money that I may never see again. Even if I get the compensation amount I will still lose a large sum that I had kept for my pension and occasionally to supplement my meagre income.
I did not make any rash decisions or chase high interest rates just put my money with a UK building society in a secure offshore centre - not because I wanted to bank in the IOM but because I had to.
Now, the IOM branch of KSF was fine - solvent no problems. But it sent 550m of depositors money to KSF UK and when the UK put KSF UK into administration - the UK adminstrators claimed the money. Go to the website www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk where the administrators say the bank has not ceased to trade and its 'business as usual' - but they have our money and they refuse to return it just as it was deposited - it sounds like bad business to me and I am ruined.
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We, UK he and French she, eke out a simple living in France, or rather we did.
In Autumn 2007, we were concerned to learn that our lifetime savings (from working in the UK) in a UK Building Society were just £20,000 in excess of the guaranteed limit. To be honest we'd never even contemplated that our savings could ever be at risk in a Bank or Building Society.
What should we do we asked ourselves ? We considered moving the excess into a shoebox under the bed, but what fools we'd be if the unthinkable happened.
So we put it in another Building Society a/c (Derbyshire Offshore) paying a rate of interest which wouldn't exactly 'make' money but would go someway towards countering price inflation. Safe as houses. And..........the unthinkable did happen.
"But why did you put your money offshore on the Isle of Man ?" a few friends have asked.
Simply because living outside the UK we were not able to open a new account in the UK.
"Did you pay tax ?" they asked. No we said. Our account wasn't due to pay any interest until Dec 2008, and then we'd have to pay UK tax on it like everybody else.
We want the money and the accrued interest back. Every penny of it.
We are so worried, and embarrassed that we will have to contemplate return to the UK and for the first time in our lives and see out our remaining days on benefits as we both have sufficient years worked in the UK to get full UK state pensions, and are too old to start again.
Thank you BBC.
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Like so many others - I'm a British expat, not tax dodging, just wanting to keep my savings in sterling, so one day would come back home and get somewhere to live. Not any more!
I work in international development work, it doesn't pay well, so its taken me a lot of years to build up this nest egg. So I may never be able to buy somewhere now. Not if I want to stay in this work.
We didn't do anything wrong. But we've been well and truly sold up the river by Gordon Brown etc. Thanks for destroying the bank. Thanks for not helping us out. Thanks for pointing the finger at us and saying all your own fault. I may move back home just so I can not vote for you.
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I am a depositor that has lossed 21000, and the more I learn about what happened, the more I'm convinced that this scandal that is shrouded in secrecy and is intended to discredit offshore banking centres.
Why did the UK refuse to assist Iceland ? It would have cost a fraction of what the they have spent in transferring ownership of Kaupthing (UK) to Dutch owned ING bank. Several billion of taxpayers money was needlessly spent in that exercise.
Kaupthing was a viable prior to the UK Government using anti-terrorism laws to seize their assets early in October. The Government brought the bank down and necessitated the rescue of the UK arm. The FSA advised Kaupthing (IoM) to transfer £557 million to Kaupthing (UK), then denied that there was any guarantee that the money would be safe. Imminently after the transfer, the UK Government froze the assets of Kaupthing(UK)
The UK treasury are preventing the funds that were transferred from Kaupthing(IoM) from being returned back to the IOM. This money belongs to Kaupthing(IoM) .This whole saga is shrouded in secrecy - there are sealed papers . The UK Government aren't telling us the truth behind all this -have they got something to hide.
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Like many of those posting on this site my husband and I took early retirement and have been living in a fairly basic farmhouse in the Spanish countryside. We live on a very small pension, frugally even before the erosion of the value of the pound against the euro. We had some savings which we deposited in the Derbyshire Building Society in the Isle of Man, the closest we could get to having a sterling account in the UK. These savings were going to help us live until my husband gets his retirement pension. It was all carefully budgeted. When the Derbyshire sold to Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander we were assured our money was 100% guaranteed so felt safe. We did not reckon on Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown causing the downfall of our solvent bank. Whether by accident or design I do not know, but we do feel that we have been sacrificed in order that our money, which had been deposited in the UK branch of KSF, can be used to pay 100% to all other UK citizens who have lost out in the Iceland debacle.
We had less than the guaranteed amount in the bank so it is not a huge amount but to us it is the difference between struggling and worrying all the time and having a little peace of mind. I felt sick when it happened and even now it is the first thing that comes into my head on awakening in the morning. I do not want to borrow off my mother who is also very worried about us. This affair has knock on effects to the UK citizens Gordon Brown is supposed to be safeguarding. The sort of tragedy which is unfolding to some will cause their deaths.
Theoretically we should get our money back under the £50.000 guarantee in the IOM but that is by no means certain. All we want is that the UK return the amount of about £550 million which was deposited in the UK branch of KSF at the time Alistair Darling froze the bank's assets.
We would be so grateful if the BBC could pursue this story as we are increasingly convinced that the government has something to hide.
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We emailed instructions to transfer most of our deposit with Kaupthing (IOM) on 29/9/08, well before cessation of trading.
The deposit has not reached the nominated account; the reason given is that we gave Kaupthing the wrong account number of the nominated account (we know we didn't) and that they have no idea where our money is.
I have spoken to our nominated bank as advised by Kaupthing to check if it is in a suspense account but they say no and asked us to ask Kaupthing to put a trace on the money which we did.(Why won't banks speak to each other?).
This happened two weeks ago with a promise by Kaupthing to come back to us if they found the money but as yet still awaiting a positive response.
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My partner and I are British Tax Payers, nearing 60yrs and have spent our whole lives in the UK building up a buisness. Due to ill health we sold our business and home a few years ago to move to a warmer climate. All our UK tax paid life savings were with KSF (IOM) as we could not open a UK savings account without a UK address. Originally banking with Derbyshire BS as it was a well known high street name, our account was 'taken over' by KSF (IOM), not being given the opportunity to withdraw our funds. We live(d) on the interest (again UK Tax paid under the EU directive) but are now destitute with a charge on our house. Overnight we went from a comfortable life style (UK tax paid) to just the pennies in our current accounts, with bills to pay and winter coming on. WE HAVE BEEN ROBBED and despite their claims, the UK Government are turning their backs on thousands of British UK Tax Payers.
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our tale is like so many others:
Living in France
unable to have an onshore bank account
created an account with the Derbyshire IOM which then became FSF IOM etc
We are both pensioners and my husband is 73
his annual UK pre-taxed private pension was paid in August my very small teacher's pension went in monthly.We had a small amount of savings in the same account which were subject to automatic EU retention tax on any interest accrued
We have still not had any official information from KSF IOm
WE saw the news on the tickertape on the BBC newsAnd since then total silence
We have had to cash in an assurance policy to live
I know there are people worse off than us but it is still very painful to be made out to be tax-dodging sybarites leading a hedonistic life style.
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I DIDN'T:
spend everything I earned,
borrow reckless sums of money I can never repay, buy city centre btl apartments, speculate in derivatives.
I DID:
work long hours far from home, save and sacrifice, refuse to join in the property bubble madness, pay my taxes, try to get the best return on my savings.
I may as well have blown everything. It would have been the same result, but much more fun. Instead someone else has just helped themself. Can I have the last ten years back please?
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Like many here my wife and I deposited our money with a 'trusted' building society, The Derbyshire, on the IOM on our departure from the UK as we had no way of having a UK savings account. We too have felt completely let down by the actions of the British government. We now live in limbo hoping that there is still enough integrity left with those in power to do the right thing and return our money to us. The last six weeks have been the worst in our lives, most of our savings gone through no fault of our own. We don't want any handouts just what is rightfully ours, what we as careful British taxpayers saved hard for.
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Alistair Darling's derogatory comments about IOM depositors only gives more credence to the belief that this is a scandal he has deliberately created. His outright lies indicate political negligence, and maliciousness towards the welfare of others. If this was a EU country like France, Germany or Russia, the money would be returned instantly. All the 'legal discussons' are pie-in-the-sky, and only demonstrate illegality operating under a so-called legal structure.
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We have all our savings invested here as we are no longer resident in the UK but require a sterling bank account we had no option but to invest our money in the IoM.
We are not tax dodgers all the the money we have is now in danger of being stolen by Alistair Darling and we seem to have no recouse to any justice.
All our savings are declared in the UK and tax has been paid.
All we want is our money back. The IoM have tried and we are grateful for their efforts but it needs the UK Treasury to realise that their actions have deprived UK tax paying honest citizens to losr their entire life savings because a knee jerk reaction to the Icelandic crisis.
I would like to warn the politicians that we cannot walk away and be quiet whilst our money has been siphoned off to make them look good.
We will not go away, we cannot afford to.
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I like others deposited my Dollars with KSF Isle Of Man without realising that the UK would confiscate over £550MILLION yes over £550,000,000 of funds put by Kaupthing Singer Friedlander Isle of Man in the UK subsidiary of Kaupthing for safe-keeping.
Give the depositors of the Isle of Man subsidiary their rightful money back!!
The Labour government similarly hoodwinked Bradford & Bingley shareholders allowing a Rights Issue to take place when they'd hatched a plan to nationalise the B&B Bank as soon as the Right's Issue had taken place.
What morals and ethics does the UK LABOUR Government demonstrate with both of these cases?
Just like the action in Gordon Brown's first budget that raided Company Pension Schemes. Now most people in the private sector no longer have a Defined Benefits Company Pension Scheme to join when they change jobs. Only Defined Contibution if they are lucky.
130,000 people who had saved hard for years lost their pension savings yet it took years for the government to finally own up and cough up. Meanwhile many died over the years.
Equitable Life - a basket case that Ann Abrahams has clearly said the government failed.
How much more is this government going to be allowed to get away with?
People who act prudently are being let down all over the place as the above examples show.
Mr Brown et al - it is time to stand down.
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like most people who have blogged on this site i'm an honest hardworking UK citizen but living overseas because i'm married to a south african. i'd saved with the Derbyshire BS and went along with all the assurances given by them and KSF when my savings account was 'sold' to KSF last year. i am horrified, terrified and in a state of shock that this can happen to ordinary people who have saved for their futures and their childrens futures. we are desperate to get our hard earned money back...please help
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If anyone read the story of Kaufthing, Singer and Friedlander (Isle of Man) since early October, they could well think it was a work of fiction.
Which other civilised country's government would steal, (yes I do mean steal) the savings of hard working, TAX PAYING people who wish to use a sterling bank.
To hear Alistair Darling continue, at every opportunity, to imply the Isle of Man is a tax haven for the rich, angers me so much.
Mr Darling stop the lies and start righting the wrong you've done to British citizens.
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Dont forget guys that there is the iPM 'An update on Kaupthing' thread as well. I've been the only one posting on it so i assume it hasnt been found yet.
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I note with dismay that this is quickly becoming yesterdays news story. Even IOM Today have removed all mention of Kaupthing from their website - even the Readers comments mentioning it has been removed.
We have been well and truely shafted and it is now yesterdays story. A hose pipe and a car's exhaust are really starting to be quite alluring; i just want it to end as its getting too much now. The IOM Today paper relegating us to history as another final-straw.