Driving: how old's too old?
When is it time to hang up the car keys?
Last winter, an 86-year-old man, driving in the early evening darkness, crashed into the car behind Dr Melanie Simms. No one was seriously hurt, but her car was written off and visits to the osteopath followed.
Fault was established and compensation paid, but it left her concerned about the growing number of older drivers on the roads. She wrote to iPM,
The system for reporting concern in the UK is very weak...Contrary to popular belief, there is no requirement for older drivers to resit a test of any kind...In practice, then, it depends on family being able to persuade the person to stop. In many cases, that will happen. In many cases, it will not.
Melanie also feels this is a political issue, 'older people are hugely more likely vote than their younger counterparts. So politicians don't want to deal with it'.
And she thinks it's a problem for GPs and other professionals, who need support in making difficult decisions that will probably have a negative impact on people's lives.
This week, iPM is looking into the issue, getting the latest figures and asking -
Should older drivers be made to resit regular tests after a certain age?
How do GPs report an elderly person they're concerned about? Should they be able to?
How do you approach the subject with an elderly relative you're worried about?
What alternatives are there for older people who are no longer able to drive?
All thoughts and comments welcome. You can also email us.
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Comments
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Older people should definitely have to take a test at intervals. My father is 89 and has just been diagnosed with a form of senile dementia. He is still driving in spite of firm advice from the psychiatrist and pleas from me! He just says he's been driving for 70 years without accident so he must be safe. Not so - his reaction time, concentration and eye sight are all now poor. I contacted thee DVLA which has now written to him and I'm desperatly hoping they will take his licence away ASAP.
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Drive along most roads and you will see an older person peering over the wheel off their car and driving at 20-30mph in a 60 limit. The usual comments "I have been driving 50 years, and never had an accident", wear thin, ask how many have the caused?
As people age it is a sad fact that their reactions slow down, many others will experience a worsening in their vision, therefore anyone over the age of 70 should undergo a medical including a visual assessment and once this is passed they should undergo a practical reexamination either in a simulator or on the road.
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The real danger is young drivers who have recently taken their test. Insurance statistics support this,
Its true that some old people are a liability on the roads but re-testing would not solve the problem.
Up here in the Highlands, distances are huge and public transport poor so we have to accept that some older drivers who are no longer fully competent will be on the roads.
Its the younsters in old (uninsured?) boom boxes that are the real problem.
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From an older driver.
I think anyone causing an accident should be required to re-take a driving test. It need not be the full-blown test and why restrict this to older drivers?
Of course I believe I am a good driver; at least I can read and understand the speed limit signs! Which is more than be said about many younger drivers these days.
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General driving re-tests for old folk. No sir. No. No. Yes, where there is a record/reason of poor driving record or medical reasons. Remember, we oldies and are to become the majority soon. Then there are those behind us soon to join us. So if you want voted out, politicians - look out. There are enough rules and even more "rools" (silly rules). We don't need more. Re-testing would have a dramatic impact, esp. on rural folk, esp. those who are wary of tests. I speak as a 60+ year-old fixed wing and helicopter pilot who takes 4 tests per year. Cost - well over £1,000 p.a. I believe, due to the complexity and safety implications of flying being many magnitudes greater, this is acceptable, but not car tests. No sir.
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I do agree - 70 and a retest. I am 62 and have told my kids I will stop driving by the time I am 75. It is so difficult getting an old relative to stop. My mother was driving at 83, bumped us over the kerb going slow on a country lane, shot along at 40 between parked cars in a 30mph local suburban road. When we moved her to live near me the car got left behind! My mother in law at nearly 90 refused to give up despite broad hints. She told me about an elderly friend who planned her route so as to do left hand turns only! Old age is a slow progression so medics cant always cite a disease cause for stopping. Retest please. A simulator would be less threatening, but the prospect of a retest would make most of these people stop without the poor relatives having to do the dirty deed.
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So we have an occasional accident involving an elderly person so by inference all elderly people are more likely to have accidents due to their age and should therefore have to prove they know to drive correctly.
What about young drivers who apparently know how to drive correctly but will not. Are these people not far more dangerous. Certainly the insurance companies think so.
This proposal smacks of covert ageism and will have little effect on the accident rate. If anything is required surely it is a medical certificates only from a GP confirming the driver is mentally and physically capable of driving.
If we are to resort retests it should be applied to every one because mental and physical capability is not age dependant.
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I think it is important that everyone who has passed their driving test should re-take it at least every 10 years if not sooner. The Highway code changes, roads become more complex and the traffic levels have increased. Over time bad habits develop and competence can drop so it is in everyone's interest to brush up. Driving is a skill and like anything with a minimum standard individual interpretation of this differs vastly. Skills fade and so need to be kept up to date. If you can't be a competent driver then be a responsible driver and keep off the roads.
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Drivers over 70 have to renew their licence at regular intervals. To do this they have to tick numerous boxes which confirm that they are fully fit, mentally and phisically, to drive. Should they come up against the law while driving due to lack of mental or physical fitness the will be in serious trouble and will certainly lose their licence permanently.
I would contend that EVERYONE should retake the driving test every 7 to10 years. I took mine originally in 1960. Following a serious accident I had to retake it in 1999 having never had any sort of accident in 39 years of driving in many countrie of the world. I had to seriously relearn how to drive, the contents of the Highway Code (vastly different rom the 1960 version) and coach myself to pass the written exam. It was a very salutory experience, it made me realise that driving rules had cahnged significantly in the intervening 39 years and that I was now a much better driver.
If a finger is to be pointed, older drivers are the best. They have 10's of 1,000's of miles of driving experience, judge speed and and distance without thinking, "drive" 100yds ahead, reading what is happening before it has happened to them, keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front, are considerate and courteous to other drivers, overtake safely, etc., etc. It is the young drivers who need to be tested
frequently, the idiots who drive 3yds behind your rear bumper, who roar away from lights, etc., only to jam on their brakes at the last minute at the next stop. Who weave in and out of fast moving traffic, Lewis Hamilton without a 1,000,000th of his skill. Road hooligans rather than road hogs - though there are plenty of them around as well.
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There should definitely be annual tests from age 70. I avoided a crash a couple of days ago where some senile old man was driving in the middle of the road. He could hardly see over the wheel and I am absolutely certain he hadn't a clue I was there. He's not the first either.
When you ride a bike like me you really find out the worst drivers. It is definitely older people that I have found are the most dangerous. It seems that they are unable to judge distance properly and always drive far too close to me - often driving out into the middle of the road after they have passed me as if they have just realised I am there! This is despite the fact they generally drive small cars - the worst culprits being in Peroduas I have found, closely followed by Hyundai Amicas. Older people have slower reaction times, forget to indicate and pull out of junctions at inappropriate times.
Young drivers can also be dangerous, for different reasons, which is why I think you shouldn't be able to drive before you are 21.
The one good thing you can say about older drivers is that they aren't the ones who drive with a mobile phone stuck to their ear....don't get me started on that one!
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Dear PM
The fanatics allways come out of the cupboard with this kind of subject.
Older drivers are not a problem.
If they drive a lot of miles a year they are very aware. If they drive a few miles every year, their exposure to the public roads is limited.
Apart from the White Van Man, the current problem is young proffessional woman having earned their first company car. Many are aggressive drivers and never indicate their intentions or whatever and they are often on the phone or texting.
New drivers need to display a green P sign as in Ireland. Also,they need to be restricted to small engined cars for the first year as with Motorcycles and retake for a larger engined vehicle.
However, in event of an offence, the new driver should retake the test. Also, the test should include a section for night driving, motorway and town center driving.
Regards
Peter Cherrie
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Today’s pensioners are unfortunately far more active than, let’s say, 20 years ago. Therefore they spend far more time on the road. And I am always stuck behind them.
This generation got its driving licence in a time when there was hardly any traffic on the road. It is a fact that older people are less adaptable. And this is shown on the road. On a daily base I get stuck in queues with a car on front doing barely 40 miles/hour on roads where the speed limit is 60. They seem oblivious of the traffic behind them which is often shown in their reaction when they are overtaken. Every time I see other drivers getting frustrated which results in cars overtaking where it is not safe to do so. Elderly people are creating dangerous situations! Everyone can remember being stuck behind someone who joins a motorway with 40 miles/hour when all other traffic approaches your rear mirror with 70 miles plus. These people need to show annually that they can handle today’s traffic safely. I would say: Let’s start with 60 years of age and I’ll volunteer as driving instructor.
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There will soon be insufficient space in our congested country for everyone who wants to drive to be able to do so. The roads should be reserved for those who need to drive, not those who want to drive. Reducing the numbers of old and young people on the roads will reduce congestion, pollution, accidents, motoring convictions and money spent on fuel. Most 17 year olds dont NEED to drive; they WANT to drive, often to show off. Increase the minimum driving age to 18, in line with buying alcohol and voting. Those over 65 may have a greater NEED to drive than 17 year olds but many dont have the ABILITY to drive to an acceptable standard. Mandatory driving tests and health check ups at 65 (and every 5 years thereafter) is the way forward. If the 3 main political parties agreed to include such a proposal in their manifestos, the government of the day would be more willing to legislate in the knowledge that they would be no more likely to lose votes than any other party.
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It is not about old drivers or young drivers - the problem is poor drivers - and they can be any age and either sex. Nobody (and I must include me in this!) should have a license for ever. We should all be expected to retake a test, perhaps every 10 years, unless we have been the cause of accidents in between in which case an earlier retest would be indicated.
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I find another fault with older motorists, they tend to drive automatic cars, and tend to rest their left foot on the brake pedal, so their brake lights are permanently showing.
Very scary, when you are trundling down the motorway at 56 MPH in a 44 tonne truck, and the first you realise the car in front is slowing, is when you are sitting on the back bumper, with your brakes locked on.
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I am a 61 year old driver with a clean licence. I have never had an accident and am an active member of the Institute of Advaced Motorists.
Please, please, please make older people have at least an assessment of their driving - me included. If they are able to continue, then fine. If not their licence should be revoked and they should be given a free travel card for all forms of ground transport for the whole of the UK, valid for 24 hours a day.
The money they would save from running a car (particularly these days)would pay for any special taxis they may need, and selling their car would give a useful addition to their pension.
Stop kidding yourselves that you are a safe driver - I bet you are not!! I bet your ractions are dreadful and it might be me who gets killed because of your arrogance.
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Re-tests should be compulsory. Starting with those that have just passed their tests who should have to do a re-test the following year to check that their standards are still high. Followed by re-tests every 5 - 10 years.
Assuming passing test at 18 then re-tests would be at 19, 24, 29, 39, 49, 59, 65, 70, 75. This would try to enforce good driving on the roads. Most of us will develop our own driving habits, some of which will be bad, and as previous bloggers have written the highway code is updated regularly, but I would imagine that not many of us go out and read the updated version. I drive in excess of 25,000 miles a year a would welcome a compulsory re-test. My main wish is that I could get rid of the drivers who seem to be on tow when I'm already doing the speed limit on the motorway.
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I'm 61 and I drive a delivery van for Ocado. The company has a programme of regular driving assessments where we're required to do a normal day's work accompanied by a driver assessor who provides feedback at the end of the shift. In addition, three incidents resulting in damage to a vehicle, however slight, automatically triggers a driving assessment.
I don't believe I should to be able to drive indefinitely without having to demonstrate that I can still drive safely. When I can no longer cope with today's traffic I hope I'll have the sense to quit, but let's have some form of driving test just in case.
And besides, it should be a nice little earner for the government ;-)
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The simple truth is that driving is getting more difficult. With the higher traffic density and zero real policing, driving is becoming a sport for the most able of humanity.
Surely after driving for 52 years, without any accidents, my dad should have some credits against his name.
So as you age, your reactions slow. So what? Are we saying that driving is going to be limited to the most able minority of this country only. Some reduction in ability will still make him safer than most on the roads.
Is 40 in a 60 zone that much of a crime if the person pulls off regularly. Is it more or less of a crime than driving an oversized van through a country lane. How about slow horse boxes on the motorways. Or farm tractors. Our local lane over the Pennines is full of aged tourists, but the biggest problem is actually the underpowered white vans full of trials bikes, and fast cars on the wrong side of the road on the bends. Having to stop going up a steep hill because some idiot is speeding down on the wrong side causes more hold ups.
There are a lot of selfish people that only think of themselves and want the world designed for their abilities. Just think if driving was set at F1 standards. Very few of us would even venture out. What is needed is policing that targets both the aggressive/stupid and incompetent drivers whatever their age or sex. But since policing is technology biased and computers find it hard to identify anything other than instantaneous speed we will have a long wait for a solution.
So out pop the people that are so quick to class others as inferior, and are happy to legislate their removal from society. Just wait, if they are really lucky, they will be old soon.
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Yes, everyone reaching the age of 70 needs to take another driving test.
Some of the reason’s why, do they know or even understand the latest road signs, can they still enter and leave motorways, approach and understand all the different roundabouts (like those at Swindon). But one of the most important reasons is seeing and understanding the road situation ahead. I am thinking of their reaction time to these situations. In my opinion a good examiner would be able to judge these reaction times and give a pass or fail for the next 5 years. If we all had a test at 70 and then every 5 years after I am sure this would benefit all road user’s. The situation at present can not go on.
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It would appear that statistically, older drivers are among the safest on the road !!
They present fewer problems to other road users than, eg 'Boy Racers', some speeding motorcyclists, and 'tailgating' HGV drivers.
The average journey of the older driver is usually of shorter duration and they are less likely to be involved in drink-driving.
Bearing in mind the conduct of some cyclists,(especially our cycling politicians);whilst being so very vunerable to injury they seem pay little attention to the highway code. Therefore a road test for cyclists before being allowed on the highway could have a greater impact on the accident statistics than any testing of older drivers!
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I agree that some sort of test is needed for older drivers. Problem is, who is going to administer the test?
There is already a waiting list for first time driving tests and a shortage of examiners.
Might I therefore suggest that a simple computerised reaction, judgement, and reasoning test would answer the need to ban doddery old wrinklies, like me, before we become a danger to everyone else on the roads.
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Older people and those of upper middle age should fight this proposal with their votes and all the militancy they can legitimately use. Unfortunately older people come from less assertive generations and if they can be obstinate then that's nothing to the selfishness of those younger people who just want them out of the way so they can drive faster.
The consequence of older people being denied their cars will be that they become more and more housebound. The proposal as it stands just won't do. Many older people just use their cars for short local journeys and wouldn't dream of going on faster roads never mind motorways.
And many also avoid times when hyperactive over stressed people are on the roads - early mornings around school start times and evenings when madmen are madwomen are rushing home from work.
Many old people would be happy walking if being a pedestrian was a more pleasant and safer experience as it used to be 50 years ago.
No this proposal has to be thought through and part of a complete rethink of traffic management in local and residential areas.
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From your contributors, interesting to note the majority views:
1. Older drivers are, in fact, the better drivers.
2. The worst drivers are the young, the inexperienced, whitevanmen and lunatic motor cyclists, tailgaters.
3. A regular re-test for all every 5 to 10 years is highly desirable, ensuring drivers keep up-to-date with best driving practice and current legislation
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As an Optometrist I often see Older Drivers who have failing eyesight. Some of these eyesight problems can be corrected, some cant. The drivers that seem most reluctant to stop seem to be are those that use the car once or twice a week (shopping trips). These are perhaps the ones more likley to have problems as they are not maintaining their skills.
A good way to try and persuade someone driving this little is the economic approach. Car tax, plus insurance, plus servicing etc is often more than the cost of Taxis to and from Tesburysons every week. AND these older folk have free bus passes so use them! Us poor tax payers are funding that perk!
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Surely the problem is that there are good and bad, considerate and inconsiderate drivers of all ages. The problem with getting older is that your awareness diminishes, your reaction time slows and your sight and hearing tend to deteriorate. There are a great many older drivers who will tell you how long they have been driving, and never had an accident - but some then add 'but I've seen lots of accidents'. Not always a co-incidence I think.
Although the thought of taking it apalls me, regular retesting makes sense, and we should all be subjected to some health tests of reaction time, eyesight and ease of confusion - today's roads can be scary places.
Reasons for keeping on - especially in country areas are very strong. My father gave up driving after a minor accident, and as a result had to give up his regular morning swim, as there is no public transport, and no taxi wanted to come out to his village at 7am. He is now restricted to the goodwill of friends and family, despite being fit and active.
tod
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As many have already suggested all drivers should be periodically re-tested.
I believe the UK driving test is too easy. It must be; there are far too many idiots on the road!
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Statistics keep being quoted here. Statistics show that younger people have more accidents being the favourite. The statistic correctly quoted is that a higher proportion of new drivers have accidents than experienced drivers. No surprise there.
But the statistic missed is that the number of accidents involving older drivers is also rising and I believe now matches the new drivers.
Let's be honest many of the over 70's cannot manage an electric scooter let alone a car.
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A very close member of my family is driving with cataracts! Nothing can be done to persuade her that she is not safe. The cataracts are not completely debillitating but are sufficient to warrant going on the list to be corrected. Surely as a matter of course this could be reported at time of diagnosis.
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I had the unpleasant experience of informing my father who had Alzheimers' that he should no-longer drive. He remained in denial, took it badly and since there was a possibility that he might drive despite being incapable, I removed his keys and disabled the car.
I frequently witness drivers speeding, driving aggressively and performing dangerous manoeuvres. Whether these are new drivers, I cannot say, but some of them are very young, so it seems unlikely that they have been driving long.
I see that many drivers on the road are clearly incompetent and should not be there, it is questionable whether some of those that I see have ever passed a test.
I firmly believe that all drivers should be retested periodically, including an eye test.
There needs to be severe penalties for
unlicenced driving. Which is why we need more Police on the road.
There is always much hyperbole in the media about the danger of firearms in the UK, but the statistics unequivocally show that motor vehicles pose a much greater danger to the public. Which is amply borne-out by the statistics.
The greatest danger is posed by those driven by new or unlicenced drivers. Age is clearly a factor, but health is more important.
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Fair enough, when people get older then they should be tested. As with the folk in the video they have forgotten the basics and have aquired habits that can be dangerous. I think the line has to been drawn after 70, then retesting must be sympathetically undertaken. A lot of old people will not see that their faculties are failing and if this is the case it must be pointed out using tact. If the tests are to be instituted the costs must be reasonably low.
However some old folk do not have ready access to transport and if they fail the driving test good organisation must be in place to give then access to transportation and not be left to rot in their homes. In the same vein the youngest drivers must be thoroughly policed as the facts show that they are the worst offenders. Sentences must be toughened up. If they continually offend then they must be banned for life, not a measly couple of months after which they will come back and continue offending.
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Regarding the question - 'how old is too old?'
Some years ago my mother-in-law, then 81, had a stroke following a hip operation, she also suffered from severe lymphoedema resulting in enormous swelling of the ankles.
After a lengthy spell in hospital she was sent back home with full social services support to help her with day to day tasks. She, however, never stopped asking when she could drive again - her driving license having been cancelled after the stroke pending a re-assessment by MAVIS (Mobility Advice and Vehicular Information Service). To give her satisfaction my husband eventually took her for her MAVIS test in the certain knowledge that she would never pass. She was unable to walk, needed help from another person to get both in and out of the car, her reflexes were poor, her eyesight was poor and her ankles so swollen that executing an emergency stop would have been impossible.
When the testing official at MAVIS announced to my husband that his mother had passed the test he was flabbergasted. The official obviously noted the look on his face and said 'I can see you are surprised at this but your mother appeared capable of all the tasks we asked of her'. There was nothing we could do to stop her continuing to drive for a further two years. It is only by the grace of God that this story didn't end in disaster. Should the tasks that are performed in this test by MAVIS be reviewed?
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We always focus on the trivial and miss the big picture. Some lady gets querulous over an elderly driver having a non-serious accident with her relative.
About 3,500 people are killed every year on our roads. Year in, year out!
Let's have the statistics not the personal prejudices of individuals. What percentage of the deaths involved drivers older than 70?
If there's evidence that re-testing drivers will cut the dreadful death toll, let's do it for the statistically most lethal age group.
I suspect the 18 to 28s, rather than the +70s, who'll be doing the retraining.
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I fundamentally disagree with mandatory retesting for older people, unless they are responsible for a serious accident -just like any other driver. A periodic requirement for a doctors certificate is adequate. Most serious accidents are caused by young, inexperienced drivers. Older people are generally much less likely to take risks and will drive within their limitations - ask the insurers. In many areas living without access to a car is almost impossible and getting worse - rural shops and other facilities continue to close and public transport is inadequate. Perhaps all over 75's could have free taxis at the tax-payers' expense? NB I am far from this age bracket but I think older people are discriminated against and undervalued enough already.
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Dr Simms’ concern arises from the fact that the other person involved in the accident was an octogenarian. Would her reaction have been the same if it had been teenager or someone in their 20s, 30s, 40s, etc? Is it likely that the consequences could have been worse if it had been a younger driver involved?
In my work I am responsible for licensing hackney carriage and private hire drivers. Many of the applicants are young, some having only passed their test a year or two previously. The knowledge test they have to pass includes 10 questions on the Highway Code and you would be amazed at the number of applicants that have never heard of it. What is sadder is that the average score for this section is 4/10. The pass mark is 8/10.
I am also a qualified Institute of Advanced Motorist (IAM) Observer and help associate members of my local IAM Group prepare for the IAM’s advanced driving test. I come across a wide variety of driving standards amongst drivers of all ages of varying levels of skill.
The sad fact is that most of the drivers on our roads, irrespective of age, have poor observational skills and no idea about reading the road ahead and planning how to cope with the traffic conditions and using the accelerator, gears and brakes to best effect.
It is true there will come a time when one should give up driving. But this is not necessarily an age related thing; a bad driver is a bad driver whatever their age. But how many of us will recognize or admit that the time has come to give up?
It is easy to blame the politicians for not requiring retesting for people of a certain age; but that would be unjust and discriminatory. Retesting would have to be universal and that would be an enormous and very expensive task when everyone wants a reduction in public spending; and what would be the consequences universal retesting? Would it cut down accidents or would it just increase the number of unlicensed and uninsured drivers and how many people would lose their livelihoods?
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Bringing in compulsory retests when you reach a certain age shouldn't bother anyone whose driving is of a high enough standard. However, I agree with those people who say focusing purely on the older driver is unfair. If the older motorist is to be placed under more scrutiny then what about younger drivers? Why not limit new drivers to a 1 litre engine for a certain period after passing their licence? Why not a mandatory retest after a period to ensure new drivers have not picked up bad habits - potentially dangerous habits they might apply for the rest of their driving lives?
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I wonder if Melanie, if the accident had involved a young driver, or a business man in a suit, she would have written to PM about young drivers being retested, or businessmen in suits being restricted from driving?
Blatant ageism, no question about it, as are ALL the comments here agreeing older drivers should be retested, along with all the snide comments about 'wonder how many accidents they cause', what, by making young drivers have to overtake them because they are driving too slowly for them? Speed kills, or have none of these people absorbed that simple fact yet? Young drivers are statistically much more likely to have accidents, and I think there is an argument for young drivers to be retested every year after first getting a licence, at least until they are out of the dangerous age bracket - 18-25.
All other issues are ones of health, not age; some people of 90 have perfect sight, others much younger have deficient vision, I know who I'd prefer to be sharing the road with.
So, do old drivers pack their car with mates and then go roaring round the roads showing off how fast they can go?
Or is that 18 year olds?
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If it's a case of getting unfit drivers off the roads, how come those convicted of dangerous driving, drink driving etc. only have a licence suspension for a few years even when they kill someone? I think anyone convicted of dangerous driving should lose their licence and have to resit the test, those convicted of drunk driving should lose the licence full stop, no ifs and buts, banned for life. Anyone causing death by dangerous driving should have the same.
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My grandmother is of sound mind and body and in her mid eighties, she is also fiecely independent.
It is unlikey she would pass her test if she took it tomorrow but then who of any age can say they would? We all pick up bad habbits over time as I realised when teaching my 18yr old sister to drive, its called experience.
My grandmothers experience on the roads means she knows what she can and can't manage, she knows she finds reversing hard and living in the countryside with narrow country lanes she has to let other people reverse when she meets them. Buses won't/can't reverse in these situations and so she makes sure she keeps an eye on (the very infrequent) bus timetable to ensure she never meets one.
She is not a danager on the roads as she is aware of her limitations, however if her license was removed she would be completly cut off from everyone and would loose all the independence that keeps her as fit and healthy as she is.
Common sense is what is needed most and is not testable!
Surely one rule for the elderly and another for the rest of the population stinks of ageisum?
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It does seem rather illogical when we are regularly reminded that "Speed Kills", to propose testing older drivers who in the main drive carefully, at quite modest speeds.
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I have been thinking about your proposal since hearing Eddie on Wednesday and this is my conclusion.
Why focus on the elderly when really all car drivers should be retested every five years. Why do think this, I can hear you all ask, well, I have experienced some unexceptionally bad driving over the years and it is not always an elderly person driving and the only way to get these people driving sensibly or remove them to make them retake some type of test which really everybody should do to keep our skills in tip top condition, kinda like CPD but for driving. i.e. those who do advance driving courses are okay for another five years until they need to do another advance course or have your license taken away until you have proven you are safe and capable to be behind the wheel of the car by retaking the actual driving test.
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My 87 year old mother has been driving for 67 years and recently went on a test drive organised by the IAM to see if she was still a competent driver. She drove her own car and the "test" took her on both country and town roads; some completely new to her. She was rated during the drive and the "instructor" went through the form at the end of her drive. Although she still drives on a daily basis she felt that she needed to be checked, just to make sure she was still safe to be out on the road. In the following month she completed a 150 mile drive to visit her grand-daughter.
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Regrdless of age, drivers must be checked for competence; as statistics may prove younger drivers are more prone to danger and accidents than old people.
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I am in India.Each pensioner has to give a life certificate in the month of November each year.If (s)he fails to do that,his/her pension will be stopped in next year.
I think when a person crosses the age of sixty,(s)he should have a driving test done.If he or she fails to do that or fails in the driving test, there driving licences
stand cancelled.
They will have to hang up there keys.
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Older Drivers
95% of dangerous driving offences are committed by men, government figures.
I have been driving for over 40 years and been involved in 3 car accidents, none my fault, all caused by male drivers.
Suggest we test male drivers every 5 years or take them off the road all together. I always keep any eye out for the boy racers, my driving experience tells me to drive defensively when they are about.
By-the-way my insurance premium doesn't reflect my careful driving.
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sherbert
95% of dangerous driving offences are committed by men. Government figures.
I have been involved in 3 car accidents, none my fault but all caused by men. My insurance premium is loaded with the cost that these men create. Test all male drivers every 5 years and boy racers should be off the road, they are dangerous.
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there should certainly be regular medical tests for older drivers; it is absurd to leave it to the individual, who may well have been driving safely for years but also may well be incapable of recognising the effects of age.
I remember my father being told by the ophthalmologist folowing a cataract operation that he could now drive: he was 80, had a long safe and faultless driving record; his reply was that he thought the doctor a fool to even suggest the he should drive, since he knew that his reactions had become far to slow to be safe.
Another elderly driver of my acquaintance was overheard after a visit to the hospital eye department: the person with him was repeating what he had been told, that he really should not drive. The response was, 'Oh no, he said that I could drive if I were careful in bad light'. Really doctors should have duty to report patients whose senses they know or suspect are too impaired for safety. That driver was only taken off the road after driving across a roundabout that he didn't see!
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I am a medical fitness to drive assessor - using my medical qualification as an Occupational Therapist alongside my Driving Instructor qualificaiton to provide pre-drive clinical testing followed by an on road evaluation. I assess for DVLA and for private individuals wanting advice and a check-up with a formal report. Medical pre-drive tests such as one might get in a doctor's surgery only correlate with on-road performance 80% at best. The gold star test is to take someone out on the road for a drive - BUT not in the same way as for a standard driving test. This addresses everyone's fears - all the assessors look for is that someone drives the same as everyone else out there and no special performance is required. The standard DSA test is an inappropriate measure as statistically 8 out of 10 ordinary experienced drivers would fail it. We assesors look for symptoms of the driver's pre-drive clinical assessment and clinical history in the drive - it is common to say to someone after assessment that they are a poor driver, but their medical condition is not affecting them. Elderly drivers tend to have reduced attentional skills in terms of area visually scanned and in terms of ability to multi task. Speed of mental information processing reduces and physical responses can be affected by arthritis etc. In the car, we would look for evidence to determine whether the normal age related changes are present to a degree likely to compromise safety. Where there is a medical history or pre-drive test evidence of a medical condition e.g. early dementia, then in the car we look for the kind of symptoms that dementia can produce and report on whether the condition is affecting driving safety. Conversley to my statement above, it is also common to tell a driver after assessment that they have clearly been a good driver and the signs of that are still present, but unfortunately it is their medical condition that is causing the problems now. The mark of a good driver is knowiing when to hang up the keys. Having done this work for 18 years, it concerns me greatly that a doctor in a surgery could be commissioned to give a recommendation. For me - a medical professional - presenting an hour or so of pre-drive tests of physical, visual, cognitive and reaction time functions, I STILL get a surprise in the car sometimes when a driver succeeds in all pre-drive tests and then tries to kill me in the car. Conversely I also get a surprise when someone who has failed most pre-drive tests gives me a lovely drive. (The 20% factor). The secret to this is that some people were excellent strategic drivers all their life, and their strategies still support their failing ability for some time. Others, perhaps with exactly the same impairments just do not have this factor. The only way to assess this is to go for a drive. Finally, anyone who states that they are a safe driver because they are accident free is living in a misconception - they may be surviving due to the unnoticed avoiding actions of other drivers. We all know what it is like to have to take emergency defensive action because of some elderly driver's mistake.
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The answer is to retest all drivers every five years, so there is no agist aspect. It is rediculous that my car maintenance ability is tested twice a year because I have to get two kit cars through the MoT, but my driving ability has not been tested mandatorily since I was 17 (I have taken the IAM test more recently), and that was 45 years ago.
Since that time laws have changed, road signs and markings have changed, there have been many new editions of the Highway Code, Roadcraft has been completely rewritten, traffic conditions have changed, driving techniques have changed and there is a lot more technology on cars. We need to make sure that drivers keep themselves up-to-date and do not pick up bad habits.
I may be a pensioner, though not yet an OAP, but I don't normally hold up other drivers unless they wish to exceed the speed limit, and even then I don't deliberately impede them. I do like to "make progress" when it's safe to do so.
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I don't doubt that there are elderly people on the road who shouldn't be there, but PLEASE don't lump us all together.
For instance last May took day trip to Spain for shopping, 2 weeks later drove myself & 2 friends to Venice for four days.
3 weeks later returned to Uk (I live in the south of France) where my itinerary was 3 days Bromley, 3 days Wakefield, 3 days Norfolk, 2 days Stratford-on-Avon & 3 days Gillingham, after which we returned home to France.
This year a little less. A trip to Jersey via St. Malo in May & a further trip to visit friends in eastern France, my driving being somewhat curtailed by major surgery on my spine in June.
Next trip will be to UK to celebrate my 75th birthday with my son & family at end of October. I use the motorways & am completely comfortable in driving at 130km per hour. I am NOT ready to hang up my keys. Good driving is a combination of roadcraft, observation & a good look-out for idiots - of which there are quite a few in my neck of the woods - the French seemingly regarding indicators as decoration or a waste of electricity!
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Age and driving?
I have never driven myself but agree regularly checks should be made on the older holders of driving licences.
But being a cyclist of old, yesterday I saw the perfect way to learn how to cycle and the very worst way. Cycle Proficiency being taught to a small group of youngster - hand signals (good grief - I thought they were extinct!) and a young man cycling with a little girl (relative perhaps?) literally drapped around his neck in front of him as he cycled them both along a main thoroughfare. The only headgear worn was the hood which presumably blocked part of the man's vision.
My look of disapproval was seemingly lost on the fellah!
Being me - I thought both events were staged but we may see.
My point is - the age of the road user is not the only thing involved in safety journeys.
Oh and the other item on Ipm today, Eddie?
You wouldn't want to know about my net surfing at the moment - but perhaps you already do - lol.
Know about it I mean for advertising reasons or whatever.
Not to completely leave the young man cyclist motif - the remark made by the Jason Robard's character about the Charles Bronson's character in the film "Once Upon A Time in the West" came to mind.
Cheyenne warned Jill (Claudia Cardinale) off becoming too attached to Harmonica. Harmonica had an air about him, the outlaw Cheyenne, who should know, said - "Something to do with death"
You could sell me a coffin or three I suppose.
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I was surprised and dismayed that your feature on older drivers did not mention the numerous Mobility and Driver Assessment Centres that exist nationally. The accredited centres are all members of the Forum of Mobility Centres and are supported (not financially), and extensively used by the medical branch of DVLA. I work at one such centre and we accept referrals from medical staff, DVLA and concerned individuals, as well as other sources. In addition to assisting disabled people to start, resume or continue driving, we assess the ability of individuals to drive in safety. Older people are frequently referred for an extremely in depth assessment if their driving abilty causes concern. The assessment consists of on and off road testing and is comprehensive and thorough. The centres have no powers with regard to the revokation of licences but the DVLA rely on reports and normally take action based on the recommendations of the centres. It is never easy to tell an experienced driver that their driving has fallen below the standard of acceptable safety and every effort is made to do so sensitively, and advice and information is given on coping without a car.
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In my opinion every driver on the road should be moderated. Today, I was driving through Manchester and there was three young lads riding motorcycles and they were causing problems for every car they came into contact with. This wasn't malicious activities but that they wanted to keep up with each other on the road. Each had an L plate on their bike so they must have undertaken their CBT?
Needless to say I have come into contact with many young people like this on the roads.
This formulates my opinion for moderation of every driver on the road; not just the elderly, in fact it is my beief that the elderly are amongst the safest on the road and I believe that it is discriminatory to single out the older driver.
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I am now 79, still driving after 60 years and lately had my first accident, scraping the offside along the crash barrier on the central reservation of a motorway when caught by a side-wind after overtaking a high-sided lorry.
I would have no qualms about being re-tested and I have always had my eyes tested regularly since I was in my 40's. Last year I had cataracts corrected in both eyes and am guided by the Ophthalmologist whether my vision is adequate.
I have to agree with all your bloggers who say that it is not a matter of our calendar years but rather our ability.
On the point of the Highway Code, I have consistently, over the years, bought a new copy every time it is updated - AND provided one for each of my grand-children who think they know it all. I just hope they read them.
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Too old to drive?
My husband & I became resident in France in 2006. In UK we had full driving licences, including being allowed to pull trailers & caravans. In order to maintain this facility in France we had to undertake a Medical with one of the panel of Drs authorised by the "Prefecture". As I had recently had an eye operation I also had to undergo an examination with an Ophthalmologist to certify that my vision was OK. IF we wish to carry on being allowed to tow a trailer over 750kg we have to have have a medical review every 5 yrs up to age 60 and then every 2 years. Surely something like this could be implemented in UK?
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Wow! This is my very first blog, ever.....I listened to the item about older drivers on 30th August. My late father's GP refused to 'sign' his driving licence when she felt he was beyond driving safely; it was tough but it was the right decision. I live in Hampshire, and drive for a local Community Group; they recently paid 50% of a fee to enable their drivers, mostly 60+, to be assessed by qualified local examiners. There is no pass/fail; the instructors observe and make notes and then talk you through their assessment. The courses are run by Hampshire County Council, and cost £25.00. They lasts 90 minutes. I gather other parts of the country run similar assessments.
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I am dismayed by the many of the comments regarding older drivers in some of the previous contributions. They range from predudice to ageism and intolerance !!
Let's face it, there are incompetent road users in every age group, driving every type of vehicle, from HGV's to cyclists.
All drivers should have to prove medical fitness to drive regardless of age.
The testing of older drivers could cause stress and alarm, particularly in rural areas with no public transport where a vehicle is essential, where if a licence was lost on a technicality, life would become very difficult, if not impossible.
To single out one section of society is unjust.
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Any driver who's responsible for injury, death, serious speeding, driving whilst unfit through drink or drugs, dangerous driving & etc. Should be required to take an enhanced driving test and given an eye test. Driving whilst uninsured, or disqualified needs to be punishable by imprisonment.
Age is not a de facto disqualifier. But a health check-up and eye test need to be mandatory, say every two years after sixty or so.
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Driving without a licence these days, is quite common, especially among illegal immigrants. And naturally this also means no road tax, no insurance, no MOT. Such a driver will almost definitely drive-off in the event of a collision.
This offence needs to be treated very seriously.
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The comment I have never had an accident in all my 70 years of driving should, perhaps, be followed with ...but I've seen loads, especially recently.
I think many older drivers would find it difficult to let go of this freedom, but if you are unable to maintain a speed higher than 45mph on the motorway (You know who you are 'Mr Civic' on the M65 Jn 4) then it may be time to give up.
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