Running Order for 10th November
Here's how the programme is looking now: A couple of stories have fallen by the side, one has made it back from last week and - Enoch & Immigration - is a direct follow up to comments on the blog and emails to the programme. Of course, it is all still subject to change:
A reminder this is how it looked earlier this week:
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Comments
a piece of astroturfing would be nice.
A song for iPM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzH83zV9C0g
Vinyl was so wonderful! - and the Internet hardly in sight :-)
Perhaps it sounds a little gritty but every scratch told a tale?
This blogsite whould be a website - it's confusing me!
Jonnie..
"Do you know where you going to...?" Well yes, but how we get there is a different matter. Either way, I think it's safe to say that for the next few months we are all going on a journey.
Sorry if my comment was a little faecesious. It'll be fine on the night
Why is it, I wonder, that "we" lose sight of the simple things in life?
Like washing our hands in soap and water...
How many people have died from the C.Difficile infection..?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/83234.php
"Fighting C. Difficile With Soap And Warm Water
Hospitals world-wide battle nosocomial infections on a daily basis. One of the most difficult bacteria to combat is Clostridium.difficile. To help ensure the best control methods possible...McGill University Health Centre (MUHC), studied the most effective ways to eliminate C.difficile bacteria from the hands of health care workers, with the highest honour going to soap and warm water!
...this study... tested five separate hand washing protocols that emulated hospital conditions as closely as possible. After the hands of the ten volunteers were contaminated with C.difficile, they washed successively with: regular soap and warm or cold water, antiseptic soap and warm water, an alcohol-based solution, and eventually with a disinfectant towel.
"The results were striking: the protocols that involved washing with water eliminated more than 98% of the bacteria, while washing with an alcohol-based solution eliminated almost none!
The protocol involving a disinfectant towel eliminated around 95% of bacteria."
..."We think that alcohol eliminates the 'living' bacteria but not the spores, whereas the mechanical action of washing combined with the chemical action of soap eliminates both,"...
The alcohol "hand rubs" remain very effective and convenient for routine hand hygiene and eliminating non-spore producing bacteria
However, the study authors recommend using soap and water whenever contamination with C.difficile is suspected..."
Glad you're doing the Enoch thing, I can't say I'm a fan, but it's always annoyed me the way his speech is misquoted, I'm going from memory but I think it was, 'Like the Roman I seem to see the Tiber foaming with much blood' But I'd be interested in finding out what else he said. That's the only clip I've ever seen.
Stop Press: Wednesday 7th November 2007, 08:59pm.
Eddie's just trailed iPM - "a brand new version of PM", although he claims he "doesn't know what the 'i' stands for"...
I was incensed by Nick Fowkes's promotion of pocketless shirts on the Wednesday's programme. Maunfacturers should listen to their customers and not some effete self-styled fashion guru. I am not a nerd who needs somewhere to show off his 'expensive' pen, just a convenient place for my glasses!
Several comments. When did ongoing replace continuing, continual, continuous and continually. Why are supposedly educated people unable to use any other word but ongoing; along with amount for number?
Re Enoch Powell and the Rivers of Blood speech. He also used offensive terms such as: "grinning piccaninnies" of which there is footage.
However, I also distinctly recall him being interviewed on t.v. and saying that he was not a racist but a nationalist and: "I would be happy to see everyone coffee coloured, but it wont happen". By which he meant that people would not mix.
On this point he was wrong and right. It is quite clear, simply by looking around, that there has been a huge amount of inter ethnic mixing But it is on the issue of mixing that relations between different ethnic groups becomes extremely fuzzy and complicated.
My ex-wife is from South Africa, from the Cape and her ethnic background is as polyglot as it comes. My stepson is as black as coal. My biological son is coffee coloured and I am white (or, more accurately, pink).
Six years ago my stepson, then 6, wanted to play with two Asian children who lived 7 doors away and attended the same school. They were outside their house by the front gate and I asked them if Giovannic could play with them and received the reply: "No, he can't come into our house because you're Christians. (Actually I am a practicing atheist). I asked if they could come to our house then. "No, we can't mix."
Now, if these little children had asked to play with my son and I had said: "No, because you're Muslims" I would be regarded, quite rightly, as racist. Not only that but can you imagine the headlines now? We have to make it clear that such attitudes are simply not acceptable from wherever they come. These little children were four and six and already being told they must not mix.
I wish to make it absolutely clear that I do have Muslim friends, I have been to their houses and they have been to mine and not all Muslims are taking these attitudes. But, I suggest, those who do believe in this separatism are in the majority.
Six years later and I have a 46 year old friend, who has been a single dad for the last 8 years, who has recently met a beautiful Asian woman. He is 46, she is 40 and never married. They have fallen head over heels in love and plan to marry.
This Asian woman was born here and is as British as my friend. But she was told by her father that the worst thing she could ever do in this world was bring home a black man. The second worst was to bring home a white man. And the third worst was to bring home an Asian who was not from their country and culture and religion.
This woman is 40 and works as an independent professional in healthcare and she is terrified to let her family know she is dating a white man, and has even discussed the possibility of being estranged permanently from her family if she does tell them.
These attitudes are absolutely disgusting and unforgiveable and it is time we started saying loud and clear that these impositions on women are unacceptable by any group, religion, culture or philosophy.
But guess what? We are not allowed to discuss these issues because to do so is 'racist', or culturally insensitive. I'm sorry, but if we believe in Universal Human Rights we cannot allow people to oppress others because of their gender, sexuality, skin colour or romantic attachments because religion demands it; whether that be Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Bhuddhism, or Mohammedism. Forced marriages, clitorectomy, 'honour' (I don't think so) killings, and the general panoply of violence against women should be made specifically illegal and enforced rigorously.
Nevertheless, I think that by any objective criteria Powell was a racist although he definitely defined himself as an absolute nationalist.
Pinker has been covered all over the media ad nauseam, why again?
How about covering the outbreak of measles in Barnet North London. Why has it happened? I would suggest because Barnet is chocka with extremely well-off middle and upper middle-class people who have nothing better to do than worry about non-existent problems based on completely unfounded, unscientific, fears whipped up among them by magazines like Private Eye and the whole Health Food, Homeopathic, Acupuncture guzzling, Chakra yakking gullible crowd.
George Orwell wrote a piece about how the poor die based on a stay he had in a Parisian hospital. During this piece he described the practice of cupping which he regarded as something akin to the Stone Age (this in the late 1920's); guess what is now becoming ever so fashionable in Chinese clinics? Yep, you guessed it, cupping.
So we get measles in Barnet, and elsewhere, because practices used to try and alleviate illnesses for thousands of years, because nothing was known about disease, biology, chemistry, and which were, and are, next to useless, are thought to be somehow 'better' or 'purer' or 'more natural' than science based medicine.
In the meantime all those countries which originated these practices, e.g. India and China, are stampeding towards Western Medicine. Ask a Chinese, or Indian, citizen if they would prefer Chemotherapy, or Radiation therapy, to treat their cancers, or have a crystal waved over them, or some thin needles inserted into their epidermis. I would take very substantial bets on their answers.
Hi to everyone - not sure how this site works! I thought I would have a voice for radio 4 programmes - obviously not!
I Seem to have spent a life-time going from one section to another on this site, that was after the `registration`
I have many opinnions on UK politics ? having grown up in Northern post war poverty. Bulgaria`s entry to EU - both social and economic issues are my current passion - I am traditionally `left wing` but now I have grown up enough to know that we are all human and as such you will get `lazy/greedy/industrious/academics - all types of developments of people. And GB is absorbing a great many of the `users` of life. Time for a reality check for us all. x
Enoch Powell...sure, what he actually said is important but not as important as what he meant, the impact he intended to have and the whole cultural meaning that has built up around that speech.
So, any politician, who invokes his name is invoking the whole thing; any attempt to decontruct the speech, along the lines of ..'well, he only said he agreed with this bit.'..is missing the point. He he only wanted to agree with theat section of the speech then why not just state the same thoughts, you don't have to invoke the name. The Conservative PPC was playing an opootunistic game and he lost...thank gooness.
Marc
Running Order:
"We'll show you an updated version of the running order later in the week"
Any up-date/s required?
At the moment, if he's still in the race, my money's on Enoch
I think it is an excellent idea to actually take a look at the full text of Powell's speech and not just the parts which are so often quoted. it should also be put in context. This was a long time ago, immigration was unknown and untested. I suspect Powell would have been pleasantly surprised by how well many groups have integrated and just become part of a new more diverse Britain. He was not alone in expressing fear of change much as people are doing now about the much higher levels of immigration into the country. I have friends who are second and third generation immigrants who express anger and frustration about the levels of immigration we are currently seeing. Where Powell did the country a disservice was by making the speech in such colourful and inflammatory language that modern politicians now tread on egg shells whenever they even dare to question or debate the subject.
Please dont forget to say the Powell's quotation was from Virgil, and that he never said "Rivers of Blood".
http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2007/11/rivers-of-blood.html
Enoch was eulogising. His actual words are not so crucial. He was sounding a warning. Luckily he was wrong on 'rivers of blood'. But he was right that uncontrolled mass immigration creates tension and dissent. This applies to the recent immigrants as well as to the entrenched ones.
England is the 10th highest density country in the world, disregarding countries with less than 1million people. If the South East were a country, with 17million it would be 5th highest. At last the government is bringing in some controls. But this should be in concert with a foreign policy that helps poor countries to self-sufficiency. It should not contenence importing people from those countries as cheap labour. That is morally wrong, economically avaricious aswell as being culturally unwise.
Foreign policy should also pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan where it generates emmigration from our bombing campaigns. Aid again is what is needed in lieu of death and destruction.
Paul Owen @ 13
"...it should also be put in context. This was a long time ago, immigration was unknown and untested."
This statement is manifestly incorrect and mis-leading insofar as "immigration was unknown" is concerned
I'm un-sure what you mean by "...and un-tested"
There were and are many positive aspects attaching to the immigrant community and, regrettably, many negative aspects.
Mr powell's analysis of the issue and it's future effects led him to an a certain conclusion.
I believe, history to date has and continues to prove his analysis correct
Immigration and it's effects were very far from unknown in the UK when Mr Powell raised the issue
That's why he raised the issue...
"Where Powell did the country a disservice was by making the speech in such colourful and inflammatory language that modern politicians now tread on egg shells whenever they even dare to question or debate the subject..."
Mr Powell did not, in my opinion, do any dis-service in raising the issue of immigration nor, did he use colourful and inflammatory language.
Mr Powell, was a leading Politician; he saw it as his absolute duty to raise the issue of immigration to the level of national debate, an issue which he and indeed many, many, others saw as being of great future danger to the stability of the UK
Immigration was then, already, a substantial issue in the UK and already a "political" hot-potato
Politicians of the time were "afraid" to address the issue
Little has changed, leading to the much reported problems we see today
UK Population Immigration & Zero Population Growth
A couple of weeks ago there was a Radio 4 environmental programme and one of the pieces was saying that The Earth could really, in the long term, only support around half the present population. We should aim to move towards just below Zero Population Growth, in order to obtain a sustainable environmental balance.
We must learn to live within our means and to reduce our carbon requirement, before the developing world wants to have its fair share of carbon per head to match ours.
Andrew P. Jones
Didcot
Oxfordshire
Regarding immigration, and totally without any reference to the origin, creed, colour, gender preference, or any other individual feature of the immigrant, the following theorems should be considered:
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
Namaste -ed
Factorials were someone's attempt to make math LOOK exciting.
Regarding immigration, and totally without any reference to the origin, creed, colour, gender preference, or any other individual feature of the immigrant, the following theorems should be considered:
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
Namaste -ed
Factorials were someone's attempt to make math LOOK exciting.
Marc
Any ideas you can post for this coming Saturday's possible running order..?
Me again,
I've just noticed. The "Latest Running Order" is dated 10th November. This is odd because it's now 16:20 on 17th November. Has iPM not planned a running order for 17:30 to-day yet? Leaving it a bit late surely?