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Will gang injunctions tackle anti-social behaviour?

12:32 UK time, Monday, 31 January 2011

Police in England and Wales have been given powers to restrict the movements of people accused of gang membership. Are 'gangbos' the best way to break this culture?

Police and local authorities will be able to seek injunctions in the county courts against adults who they believe are involved in gang-related violence and crime. The measures can be used to ban people from certain places or from walking aggressive dogs.

Breaching an injunction could result in a prison sentence of up to two years or a fine. A separate power covering young people aged 14 to 17 will be piloted later in the year.

Are gang injunctions the best way to tackle anti-social behaviour? Should there be more focus on preventative strategies? Have you been affected by gangs? Do you work for the police or other law enforcement agencies?

Thank you for your comments. This debate is now closed.

Comments

Page 1 of 4

  • Comment number 1.

    Did/do ASBOs work?

    Well there is your answer.

  • Comment number 2.

    Nope !! just more tough on crime and the causes of crime ( I think was the last Tory take on the subject) in between we had Tony with his resolve to sort it too.....

  • Comment number 3.

    Will gang injunctions tackle anti-social behaviour?

    No! These 'gangbos' will become a badge of honour, just as asbos have become.

  • Comment number 4.

    What will they do with an injuction? smoke it.

  • Comment number 5.

    They will be as successful as the Asbos!

  • Comment number 6.

    We'll get the usual leftist waffle that these people are from deprived homes and that they need a cuddle and some purpose in life with which to draw them away or prevent them from joining the gang culture.

    We've heard all this crap for years now and the gang culture in the UK is worse now that in has been in years.

    It's time to remove the kid gloves and exclude the left-wing from involvement in this sphere and smash these gangs with an iron fist. As a tax payer, I want a break in the money I contribute to people either too lazy or too stupid to figure out a better more harmonious and productive way to lead their lives.

    I care not one jot if several of these thugs and villains have to die to make the point.

    I can now count on two hands the number of friends who have been directly affected by gangs and their activities, roaming the streets robbing and attacking at will, with a couple of friends hospitalized as a result of the attack they had to endure. I DO NOT pay my taxes to live with this.

    Any opinion to the contrary is frankly worthless and would the left wing liberal sorts who feel that a softer more holistic approach is preferable, please do society a favour and keep your feckless, worthless, tried tested and failed opinions to your selves.

    Brute force and no sympathy is the way to deal with this situation as well as a firm hand with parents that have allowed their vile brats to behave in such a way.

  • Comment number 7.

    Bring back approved schools, Borstal, the birch and corporal punishment. While we are at it lets have a vote on the return of the death penalty for adults

  • Comment number 8.

    Anything which gives the police more power than ASBOs has to be good.

    Since when was shooting or stabbing an 'anti-social' activity???

  • Comment number 9.

    Legislative Bleed.

    How long before organisations like the Automobile Assn (set to warn of Speed Traps), and the Royal Automobile Assn are classed as gangs and membership etc banned?

  • Comment number 10.

    I'm sure this question will pop up a lot on this HYS...but is it just me or does this appear to be a simple rebranding of ASBOs?

    Reading what this 'new' legislation will cover and how it will restrict people's movements, it certainly seems very similar to ASBOs...but maybe another HYSer can explain the key differences that will make this better and/or more effective than ASBOs?

    Also, unlike in the US, most gangs in the UK don't wear colours or uniforms that identify them as belonging to a specific gang. The lines between gang 'territories' are also very blured. For these reasons it's very difficult to single out individuals as being gang members. You may as well try plucking any 'hoodie' from a bunch of teenagers hanging out on the streets.

    There's been a lot of negative press related to ASBOs since they were first introduced, mainly because of the media frenzy that ensues when it doesn't work well in a handful of particular cases, BUT what's never reported is that someone with can already be jailed for breaking the terms of their ASBO...and they quite frequently are.

    I think ASBO (or whatever you want to call them) do have a place, as long as they're used correctly and appropriately.

    Oh, by the way...anyone want to take bets on the first comment to be posted using the phrase 'badge of honour'? It wont take long!

  • Comment number 11.

    no!

    why do we no longer put criminals into national service?
    if anything that's a worse punishment that prison to these people!

    there all a bunch of wimps anyhow- low life scum

    they wouldn't punch you in the face but they would shoot you in the back!

    they don't deserve human rights most of them there nothing but animals.

    but we will still get people blaming the parents and saying we need to do more to encourage them not to go into gangs!

    NO we need to FORCE them not to be in a gang every single gang member had a choice of what life to choose, life isn't that bad you have to go to a gang to go out murdering people so stop being a load of namby pamby liberals and give them a boot up the behind! 4 years national service should help

  • Comment number 12.

    Why not bypass the ASBO nonsense and go straight to jail!

    An ASBO is as useful as an old woman waving her walking stick saying 'go play somewhere else'. What they need is a dose of reality and an understanding that if they break the law they go to jail. No counselling sessions, no yellow cards, just jail. You carry a knife - jail, you carry a gun - jail. No cry baby excuses.

    But hey, this is the UK, if we do this they'll probably sue the police for hurting their feelings or being against their human rights. But we can dream.

  • Comment number 13.

    Basically an ASBO by any other name. What makes the government think they will work any better.

    Anyway, I thought we already had laws to deal with violent and/or gang related behaviour as well as the dangerous dogs Act etc. Why can't these laws be acted upon by the Police. Violence of any sort, to my mind, is an offence that should be punishable by prison.

  • Comment number 14.

    3. At 12:50pm on 31 Jan 2011, Wyn wrote:
    Will gang injunctions tackle anti-social behaviour?

    No! These 'gangbos' will become a badge of honour, just as asbos have become.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Darn it! I had a bet on the phrase 'badge of honour' popping up for the first time in the 4th comment...close though! I guess I give HYS a little too much credit.

  • Comment number 15.

    6. At 12:58pm on 31 Jan 2011, Sauron the Deciever wrote:
    We'll get the usual leftist waffle that these people are from deprived homes and that they need a cuddle and some purpose in life with which to draw them away or prevent them from joining the gang culture.

    We've heard all this crap for years now and the gang culture in the UK is worse now that in has been in years.

    It's time to remove the kid gloves and exclude the left-wing from involvement in this sphere and smash these gangs with an iron fist. As a tax payer, I want a break in the money I contribute to people either too lazy or too stupid to figure out a better more harmonious and productive way to lead their lives.

    I care not one jot if several of these thugs and villains have to die to make the point.

    I can now count on two hands the number of friends who have been directly affected by gangs and their activities, roaming the streets robbing and attacking at will, with a couple of friends hospitalized as a result of the attack they had to endure. I DO NOT pay my taxes to live with this.

    Any opinion to the contrary is frankly worthless and would the left wing liberal sorts who feel that a softer more holistic approach is preferable, please do society a favour and keep your feckless, worthless, tried tested and failed opinions to your selves.

    Brute force and no sympathy is the way to deal with this situation as well as a firm hand with parents that have allowed their vile brats to behave in such a way.

    =============================================
    I think the US and Mexico are a lot tougher on gangs - thats really solved the problem hasnt it?

    Truth is its a highly complex, multi-faceted issue and no simplistic approach is going to work.

    Of course, everyone's opinion but yours is worthless... What an ego...

  • Comment number 16.

    10. At 1:07pm on 31 Jan 2011, Nic121 wrote:
    anyone want to take bets on the first comment to be posted using the phrase 'badge of honour'? It wont take long!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    All of 3 posts. Got this week's lottery numbers, by any chance ?

  • Comment number 17.

    What a load of rubbish.

    Why can we not just build some prisons and lock them up. If they're involved in this sort of thing they shouldn't be on the streets anyway.

    But of courese we don't have any money top build and run prisons do we?

    Well, there is an easy answer to that as well. get rid of some of thse useless politicians and recycle our money into something which will improve our lives.

  • Comment number 18.

    So, what should gang members do instead of being in a gang?

    Poor role models, low employment, restricted facilities, dangers from crime...

    Just saying, "not be in a gang" is a cop-out.

  • Comment number 19.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 20.

    6. At 12:58pm on 31 Jan 2011, Sauron the Deciever wrote:
    Any opinion to the contrary is frankly worthless and would the left wing liberal sorts who feel that a softer more holistic approach is preferable, please do society a favour and keep your feckless, worthless, tried tested and failed opinions to your selves.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Fair enough. Now that you've put that debate to bed, would you care to suggest a new topic ?




  • Comment number 21.

    We should slap one on the coalition of the clueless for their anti-social behaviour.

  • Comment number 22.

    I suppose we will get the usual right wing hang'em and flog' em brigade. Wait we have already had it see above. The right just want to throw the key away and not look to see if there is any other reason why crime is prevelent. After years of seeing some reduction in crime levels I expect to see a reversal as we now have a Viscious Right Wing coalition suppressing the middle and working classes. There is already increases in the theft of fuel countrywide. As people lose their jobs and their resources become squeezed you will find that crime will increase. The Right forget that we have had punishment regime of hang 'em and flog'em for a thousand years and where has it got us, nowhere. Because someone has the insight to try another approach does not make them left wing or liberal as has be stated on this HYS. They are using their brain to try something different. If you think the left is soft go and live in North Korea. You might then change your statement.

  • Comment number 23.

    Police in England and Wales have been given powers to restrict the movements of people accused of gang membership. Are 'gangbos' the best way to break this culture?


    My main concern is i do not trust politicians enough to NOT extend said "gangbos" to other members of society, just look at how the anti terror laws were misused by councils and politicians to spy on anyone they so wished, OAPs added to the terror watch list for having the audacity to protest peacefully at arms manufacturing and exports.
    If they want to stop the gang culture then improve the lives of the poor, instead of heaping more pressure on the poor by making the cuts hurt the poor most.
    How can any of the governBENT have any idea what life is like on a sinkhole estate not one of them has had to make the choice between eating and heating or going without proper food to allow their young to eat better quality. They haven't a CLUE its easy to pronounce from a life of advantage its not so easy to live a poor life after they've meddled again.

  • Comment number 24.

    No, this new Idea will only be exploited by the government to stop the people of this country protesting about any harsh laws that are made. Every law I have ever seen implemented in the past has been exploited and used against the people in an effort to stop them protesting against any kind of government policies. What I see today by this Con/dems goverment is TREASON against the people of this country. They don't listen to advisers and economists, and tread all over the working classes. NO, they must be prevented from making any laws that surpresses the people in any way or form.

  • Comment number 25.

    For underage gang members (and other underage offenders and hooligans) the only punishment that will actually work is to punish and train the parents of these kids. The present law attempts to punish children, whereas the real offenders are their neglectful parents and guardians. If you wilfully neglect a pet, the law has the right to punish you, and to ban you from keeping animals. A similar set off laws is required for lazy, inept and ignorant parents. You do not have the right to allow your children to run riot at any time of the day, and especially not at night. As seen in the recent crash where a 14 year old was killed in a car crash at 4:30 am, they put themselves and others at risk - her parents should be prosecuted for not ensuring her welfare

  • Comment number 26.

    5. At 12:53pm on 31 Jan 2011, Paul Chilvers wrote:
    They will be as successful as the Asbos!
    --------------------------------------------------
    I missed the nominations - is the King's Speech up for Best Film ?

  • Comment number 27.

    Is someone who is unafraid of committing various crimes and the possible consequences, (such as GBH), likely to be more afraid of being in Contempt of Court and its penalties?

    I can't see why they should.





  • Comment number 28.

    #11. At 1:07pm on 31 Jan 2011, scotty1694 wrote:
    no!

    why do we no longer put criminals into national service?
    if anything that's a worse punishment that prison to these people!

    there all a bunch of wimps anyhow- low life scum

    they wouldn't punch you in the face but they would shoot you in the back!

    they don't deserve human rights most of them there nothing but animals.

    but we will still get people blaming the parents and saying we need to do more to encourage them not to go into gangs!

    NO we need to FORCE them not to be in a gang every single gang member had a choice of what life to choose, life isn't that bad you have to go to a gang to go out murdering people so stop being a load of namby pamby liberals and give them a boot up the behind! 4 years national service should help

    -------------------

    Forcing individuals does not work either, it just makes the enforcer no better than dictators.

  • Comment number 29.

    12. At 1:12pm on 31 Jan 2011, Sian_Raven wrote:
    "Why not bypass the ASBO nonsense and go straight to jail!"

    Comments such as the above really do show that too many HYSers don't do their homework.

    Where a clear criminal act has taken place and there is good evidence available for the CPS to prosecute, people can be dealt with by the courts and charged for commiting a specific criminal act...hopefully if it's serious enough i.e. assault or threatening someone with a weapon, they will face imprisonment...and they do in MOST cases, contrary to the popular myth that they're all (or most are) let off with a warning and community service.

    ASBOs were brought in because it was recognised that certain individuals are actually involved in more petty crime such as 'disturbing the peace' (shouting out obsensities to locals) and general 'intimidating' behaviour. These are crimes that don't carry particularily harsh sentences, and even if they were convicted and jailed, they'd be out in a matter of weeks and doing the same. So they are given an ASBO which prevents them from socialising with certain people, going to certain places (town centre etc) and gives them a curfew. If they break the ABSO a judge has the power to send them back to prison...even if they haven't commited a specific crime.

    The idea of ASBOs was and still remains a good one...it's just that we need to make sure they are enforced appropriatly which will always require tweaking her and there.


  • Comment number 30.

    The way we treat children is a international disgrace.No youth centres and no treating children as children.No child under 16 should be locked up for any crime.We have just had a report that restraining methods by aduldts on a child led to his suicide.
    If parents have the money and job to live abroad,then they do.All say ists to do with the life style.We must try to under stand what is wrong with the british life style?
    Its beer,bingo or the bookmakers.The games machine or the dvd or internet.A country sat on thier bottoms boozed up or drugged up.

  • Comment number 31.

    28. At 1:31pm on 31 Jan 2011, mofro wrote:

    #11. At 1:07pm on 31 Jan 2011, scotty1694 wrote:
    no!

    why do we no longer put criminals into national service?
    if anything that's a worse punishment that prison to these people!

    there all a bunch of wimps anyhow- low life scum

    they wouldn't punch you in the face but they would shoot you in the back!

    they don't deserve human rights most of them there nothing but animals.

    but we will still get people blaming the parents and saying we need to do more to encourage them not to go into gangs!

    NO we need to FORCE them not to be in a gang every single gang member had a choice of what life to choose, life isn't that bad you have to go to a gang to go out murdering people so stop being a load of namby pamby liberals and give them a boot up the behind! 4 years national service should help

    -------------------

    Forcing individuals does not work either, it just makes the enforcer no better than dictators.

    yes im the same as a gang member because i think they don't deserve to be allowed to behave in such a manner? to be allowed to use fear and intimidation against the vulnerable.

    what a stupid liberal minded viewpoint!

    wel we tried you lets cuddle them approach with labour for 13 years it got WORSE now it time to use force!

  • Comment number 32.

    #10. At 1:07pm on 31 Jan 2011, Nic121 wrote:
    I'm sure this question will pop up a lot on this HYS...but is it just me or does this appear to be a simple rebranding of ASBOs?

    Reading what this 'new' legislation will cover and how it will restrict people's movements, it certainly seems very similar to ASBOs...but maybe another HYSer can explain the key differences that will make this better and/or more effective than ASBOs?

    ----------------------

    No, you are not the only person that thought the new scheme was just a rebranding of ASBOs, I came to the exact same conclusion.

    The only key difference I can see between the ASBO and the 'gangbo', is that one was thought up by the Labour party and the other by the Coalition government.

  • Comment number 33.

    As long as the policy is robust, and the general public start seeing gang members imprisoned for crimes instead of having the full weight of the ECHR backing them, then maybe its a good start.
    However I seriously doubt this new badge of honour will work, as we surrendered our streets to thugs and yobs too long ago. We need about 20-30 new prisons and an American-style approach to winning back our streets - Zero Tolerance..... for anything! The yanks may have high crime rates, but at least they bang up their criminals when they are caught.




  • Comment number 34.

    Jan 2011 - "The number of adults under 25 out of work jumped by 32,000 to 951,000, pushing the youth unemployment rate up to 20.3% – the highest level since records began in 1992"

    This rate is about to climb steeply with the tripling of Uni fees and the axing of EMA's.

    So we have a million hormone-gorged under 25's wandering around with nothing to to.

    Trouble - what do you expect?

    You reap what you sow...

  • Comment number 35.

    Yet another law which will be open to dispute because it is a restriction of human rights and freedom of movement.

    The ONLY FACTUAL way that such a law can be LAWFULLY implemented is if human rights legislation is CHANGED.

    This is NOT MUCH DIFFERENT TO ATTROCIOUS TERRORISM LAWS WHICH DENY ACCESS TO JUSTICE.

    Police and local councils can seek gang injunctions in the county courts against adults who they believe are involved in gang-related violence and crime.

    Gang orders can be based on informal "hearsay" evidence from police officers or community members, as well as formal witness statements.

    Mr Brokenshire said breaching an injunction could result in a prison sentence of up to two years or a fine.


    So, someone is taken to country court and placed upon an injunction SOLELY as a result of HEARSAY.

    Later if that person breaches the injunction, based upon hearsay, they can be IMPRISONED for upto 2 years or fined, NO CRIME HAS BEEN PROVEN, just an injunction based upon HEARSAY, and of course if they do not pay the fine then they can AGAIN be IMPRISONED.

    The Labour government devised the powers after Birmingham City Council tried unsuccessfully to use ordinary civil injunctions against suspected gang members in the city. LOL, FAILURE.

    The powers are similar to anti-social behaviour orders and were conceived by the former Labour government after appeals from councils for help.

    LOL, ASBOS are BEING JUNKED, because of their ENDEMIC FAILURE, and lets NOT forget their FINANCIAL COSTS, yet here we are implementing a SIMILAR policy, but in my opinion WORSE, a CROSS BETWEEN AN ASBO AND UK ANTI-TERRORISM LAWS.

    Remember this report in 2008 - Councils are using anti-terrorism laws to spy on residents and tackle barking dogs and noisy children.



    It makes you wonder if "HEARSAY" is part of that which currently restricts freedoms under "The Prevention of Terrorism Act", because factual evidence REMAINS SECRET.

    Do you REALLY think that these new laws will NOT BE ABUSED BY COUNCILS or the POLICE.

    ANOTHER THING.

    This ConDem government said they were going to repeal those areas of Labours STALANIST attacks on human rights and restrictions of freedoms, yet here they are introducing a law which is more apt for Robert Mugabe or Stalin or Hitler.

    YES WE NEED TO DEAL WITH GANGS & TERRORISTS, BUT TO REMOVE THE PROVISION OF FACTUAL EVIDENCE IN A COURT OF LAW IS NOT THE WAY TO GO ABOUT IT.

    With both Labour and Torys, and now which even Lib Dems are a part, one thing in my opinion is essentially missing, which is GOOSE STEPPING.

  • Comment number 36.

    I tell you what - lets do this the easy way.
    We employ a group of people who are given power to investigate illegal activities and if they find someone performing such an illegal activity - perhaps beating old people up, stealing from shops, vandalising property then this group of people have the power to detain them and present the evidence to a prosecuting authority. We had a group like this once, we named them the police, unfortunately this group have become lazy and irresponsible, hiding behind cameras and paperwork persecuting people who drive at 80 on a motorway and stearing well clear of anywhere that might be 'dangerous' or involve a 'health and safety' issue - so places where criminals carry out illegal acts are too dangerous for the police.

    When taken to the prosecuting authority those that are found guilty be a number of their peers should be punished. This used to occur when we had courts and juries. Unfortunately this has been circumvented by the guilty unless proven innocent mantra of the last administration.

    When being punished these people should lose their freedom - probably by being locked in a small room (a 'cell') housed in a building with a number of other criminals (a 'prison') where they can be looked after, maybe have some training and prepare for a proper job (just in case someone ever works out how simple it woudl be to fix the economy). This 'prison' should be somewhat devoid of comforts like TV, gymnasium, perhaps even heating, certainly the food should be very basic, not quite like the luxuriously appointed buildings we now use where the facilities are far in advance of anything that the majority of the British public can afford. (e.g. I don't have membership of a gym, or a tv, I don't have my heating on (wear jumpers instead) and buy only value food or make my own - because I can't afford to do differently.

    This perhaps would work as a suitable deterrent from 'bad behaviour'.


    However of course, there is another way of looking at the current situation...

    30% of those aged 18-65 do not have gainful employment (check the ONS website). If these people had employment, potentially a future, some career then they might have something better to do than stand around on street corners mugging each other in 'gangs'. This of course would require someone with a simple understanding of economics to make the right decisions about the economy - something that clearly none of the Labour party, Conserative party or Liberal Democrats possess. The same mistakes that Thatcher visited on us are being repeated - and they will lead to the same results - rising unemployment (from the 30% we see now), a further rise in the rich (top 5% of bankers), closure of more of our manufacturing and service industries (this time the computer industry which used to be a 'shining star' is shrinking rapidly as well as things like motor manufacturing).

  • Comment number 37.

    I'm a little confused. Haven't the government been twittering recently about too many people either being in or being sent to prison. And now they want to introduce a law that allows gang members to be given injunctions that if broken 'COULD' mean a prison sentence or fine.

    Too many people in prison already = twerps up for breaking their injunctions, will be fined, payable at 50p per week from their benefit money, a warning, and very, very very occasionally a habitual injunction breaker will be sent to prison for 3mths, halved for good behaviour and then halved again cos the good little fella/girly pleaded guilty to breaking..and ta da, no prison time actually served.

    So do the government want more or less people in prison? Or do they know that the percentage actually imprisoned is negligable so no greater pressure on the already over-crowded prisons, but manage to look like they are doing something positive about the situation..win/win on the side of the law makers lose/lose for the person on the street whose lives are forever negatively touched by these so called 'gang' members

  • Comment number 38.

    Interesting how many people think these measures will do nothing to stop gangs but think measures of a not dissimilar nature (control orders, now P_tims) are useful against hardened terrorists.

  • Comment number 39.

    Hopefully they will be enforced better than asbo's. It would be a huge waste of time if they become the same as asbo's.

    The problem which needs addressing is why people join gangs. Increasing the number of jobs and activities available to these people could help and would have been a better spending of money by labour than the ID card system. Also examining if the education system has much to do with it too could produce results.

    I do wonder if these people would benefit from workshops aimed at younger people to teach them skills. This would also improve their ability to work in later life and not leave them with the dull options schools present them.

  • Comment number 40.

    Gangs? are you joking? they dont know the meaning of the word
    its just a bunch of kids with nothing to do in the evenings but
    cause a nuisance, we used to be the same 30 years ago...nothings changed

  • Comment number 41.

    Sauron the Deciever wrote "We'll get the usual leftist waffle that these people are from deprived homes and that they need a cuddle..." Usual leftists like David Cameron, didn't he say exactly that, we should go out and hug a hoodie. I think we can discount this as usual rightist waffle...

  • Comment number 42.

    So young people are killing each other whilst wearing coloured bandanas, and the police's best idea to stop it is to stop them wearing the bandanas? Give these people a raise. What a joke.

    How about having a police force and CPS that actually siolve and prosecute the crimes being committed. How many times do we read about young hoodlums stamping on people's heads screaming, "Die, die, die" only for it to be deemed there's insufficient evidence of an intent to kill.

    Murder then gets reduced to manslaughter, and a mandatory life sentence is reduced to a discretionary sentence of invariably 6 or 7 years. Which obviously equates to 3 years inside. For killing someone.

    Anyone with a career would have their lives ruined by such a sentence - (handed down, say, where such a person has intervened in an incident out of a misguided sense of civic duty, only to find themselves fighting for their lives and compelled to strike out) they would never be able to be a professional again.

    For the majority of perpetrators of violent crime, however, the sentence is merely a 36 month caesura in a life that then continues exactly where it left off - leaching from society and detracting from every interaction they have with other people.

    Either look at what causes kids to commit these crimes and address those issues, or make them fearful of the consequences - ideally both. Currently the law enforcement system currently does neither.

  • Comment number 43.

    This is where the word "gang" also means "group of mates"? Or does "gang" mean "undesirable bunch of males with maybe the odd female thrown in"?

    Who cares how many people are involved? Commit a crime, expect to be punished!

    What I do care about is young people being picked on because of the fashionable clothes they choose to wear. It stinks as much as the Gray and Keys comments last week.

    The UK is cold, wet and windy. People who spend their time outdoors need coats, hats and hoods. Give them a break. Don't be prejudice. Say hello and they'll return the good manners.

  • Comment number 44.

    6. At 12:58pm on 31 Jan 2011, Sauron the Deciever wrote:
    We'll get the usual leftist waffle that these people are from deprived homes and that they need a cuddle and some purpose in life with which to draw them away or prevent them from joining the gang culture.

    We've heard all this crap for years now and the gang culture in the UK is worse now that in has been in years.

    It's time to remove the kid gloves and exclude the left-wing from involvement in this sphere and smash these gangs with an iron fist. As a tax payer, I want a break in the money I contribute to people either too lazy or too stupid to figure out a better more harmonious and productive way to lead their lives.

    I care not one jot if several of these thugs and villains have to die to make the point.

    I can now count on two hands the number of friends who have been directly affected by gangs and their activities, roaming the streets robbing and attacking at will, with a couple of friends hospitalized as a result of the attack they had to endure. I DO NOT pay my taxes to live with this.

    Any opinion to the contrary is frankly worthless and would the left wing liberal sorts who feel that a softer more holistic approach is preferable, please do society a favour and keep your feckless, worthless, tried tested and failed opinions to your selves.

    Brute force and no sympathy is the way to deal with this situation as well as a firm hand with parents that have allowed their vile brats to behave in such a way.

    ---

    You could have saved yourself alot of time by just typing 'I'm a right wing fascist' instead of going that thoughtless rant.

  • Comment number 45.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 46.

    15. At 1:16pm on 31 Jan 2011, sixpackerL wrote:
    6. At 12:58pm on 31 Jan 2011, Sauron the Deciever wrote:
    We'll get the usual leftist waffle that these people are from deprived homes and that they need a cuddle and some purpose in life with which to draw them away or prevent them from joining the gang culture.
    We've heard all this crap for years now and the gang culture in the UK is worse now that in has been in years.
    It's time to remove the kid gloves and exclude the left-wing from involvement in this sphere and smash these gangs with an iron fist. As a tax payer, I want a break in the money I contribute to people either too lazy or too stupid to figure out a better more harmonious and productive way to lead their lives.
    I care not one jot if several of these thugs and villains have to die to make the point.
    I can now count on two hands the number of friends who have been directly affected by gangs and their activities, roaming the streets robbing and attacking at will, with a couple of friends hospitalized as a result of the attack they had to endure. I DO NOT pay my taxes to live with this.
    Any opinion to the contrary is frankly worthless and would the left wing liberal sorts who feel that a softer more holistic approach is preferable, please do society a favour and keep your feckless, worthless, tried tested and failed opinions to your selves.
    Brute force and no sympathy is the way to deal with this situation as well as a firm hand with parents that have allowed their vile brats to behave in such a way.
    =============================================
    I think the US and Mexico are a lot tougher on gangs - thats really solved the problem hasnt it?
    Truth is its a highly complex, multi-faceted issue and no simplistic approach is going to work.
    Of course, everyone's opinion but yours is worthless... What an ego...
    _________________________________________
    Gangs and gang culture, the £10 billion cost of youth reoffending, the 70% increase in the prison population since 1990 are all indications of our society's ills and an indictment of the monied career politicians that pretend to care. Widespread depravation, lack of jobs and opportunities, the increasing gulf between rich and poor now being exaccebated by the coalition of the cluless will only lead to better investment opportunities when the prison system is totally privatized. One half of the poor working hard to make ends meet while the other half kept in prison at £40,000/year all allowed to happen because it doesn't affect the rich.

  • Comment number 47.

    do these come as medals with a coloured ribbon because they will be seen as a reward and be on display for all to see,another crazy idea from the elite what a joke

  • Comment number 48.

    This is a LIEBOUR policy.

    Lets NOT forget the rights and freedoms that LIEBOR have restricted and which the ConDems have PLEDGED/PROMISED/STATED to REVERSE.

    This is basically a weaker version of ANTI-TERRORISM LAWS, but USED for another part of society.

    Someone can go to County court, say " BLAH BLAH BLAH" then a judge will place a restriction of movement upon someone. NO EVIDENCE IS NEEDED, just 2nd hand HEARSAY.

    Funny isnt it, how we watch demonstrations against ATTROCIOUS human rights in Tunisia and Egypt and our government are VERY MEASLEY in what they say, MAYBE this is because they are introducing and MANTAINING LAWS which are relatively of the SAME ANTI-HUMAN RIGHTS as that experienced in Tunisia and Egypt whereby people are PUNISHED & RESTRICTED & IMPRISONED with LITTLE or NO EVIDENCE, and just on "HEARSAY".

    There is this PATHETIC FALSE presumption in UK, that to be a Stalin or Hitler/Nazi you have to wear a CLEAR & DEFINED uniform & goosestep or state outrageous beliefs.

    Take a look at what is being implemented in UK.

    I personally am starting to believe that crime & even terrorism is micro managed in UK to ENABLE implementation of REGRESSIVE laws and powers of restriction of movement and freedoms.

    LEST WE FORGET, lol, it seems MUCH is ALREADY FORGOTTEN, or even just SMOTHERED OVER with terrorist/crime spin/propaganda to enable implementation of that which is wholey abhorant to freedom.

  • Comment number 49.

    I am afraid the justice system is hamstrung when it comes to handling juvenile crime. The "touchy feely" do gooders have rendered the system totally ineffectual so the police feel there is no point arresting miscreants as the courts are powerless to hand out sensible punishments.
    Two options open, either drop all the existing restrictions and sentence wrong doers proportionately to their crime or just let anarchy rule which is the way this useless coalition is driving us.
    I realise that a lot of advantage is being taken by different sections of our judicial system using the cut in funding as their excuse to total failure. Their lack of strength has been in existence for years now, it is not the economic climate of today that has caused it. However no support from the coalition gives me the impression that Cameron and co just want us to fail totally then they can disappear overseas and live their comfortable wealthy lives while we drown.

  • Comment number 50.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 51.

    No. Injunctions et al are public sector job creation schemes and for the fact and figure skaters to manipulate into justification via a graph or two.
    Surely in the year of the big society, the people who worked out these idea's would set an example and implement, police and administrate it for free....

  • Comment number 52.

    Gangs are like Governments in unity there is strength, we can only but blame our Government for allowing such gangs to thrive within our culture, they alone have the power to stop gang warfare on British streets and it’s about time they did.
    The Kray twins are long gone, but their enterprise still continues through the new ethnic cultures that now live amongst us, Britain is indeed a multi cultured society, but with it comes many other cultures ways & means of dealing with the problems of today alas, we fail to understand their values as they do ours.

  • Comment number 53.

    I was under the rather childish impression that the COURTS were meant to deal with Offenders. I also realise that they have failed totally for 30 years. The Justices have no idea.
    Examaple Burglars not jaied, Drunks fined a few pounds, and repeat offenders not punished.

    ASBO's were a failure, as will this 'Gang Law'.
    The proof is in the History books.

  • Comment number 54.

    ##11. At 1:07pm on 31 Jan 2011, scotty1694 wrote:
    no!

    why do we no longer put criminals into national service?
    if anything that's a worse punishment that prison to these people!

    there all a bunch of wimps anyhow- low life scum

    they wouldn't punch you in the face but they would shoot you in the back!

    they don't deserve human rights most of them there nothing but animals.

    but we will still get people blaming the parents and saying we need to do more to encourage them not to go into gangs!

    NO we need to FORCE them not to be in a gang every single gang member had a choice of what life to choose, life isn't that bad you have to go to a gang to go out murdering people so stop being a load of namby pamby liberals and give them a boot up the behind! 4 years national service should help

    -------------------

    Forcing individuals does not work either, it just makes the enforcer no better than dictators.

    yes im the same as a gang member because i think they don't deserve to be allowed to behave in such a manner? to be allowed to use fear and intimidation against the vulnerable.

    what a stupid liberal minded viewpoint!

    wel we tried you lets cuddle them approach with labour for 13 years it got WORSE now it time to use force!

    --------------------------

    Just because I disagree with your viewpoint does not make me stupid and I would appreicate not being called as such.

    You are the one who has twisted my words. Please tell me how my comment "Forcing individuals does not work either, it just makes the enforcer no better than dictators", relate in any way to you being the same as a gang member.

    While we are on the subject of cuddles, was it not David Cameron who wanted to hug a hoody not so long ago.

    As far as I am concerned the new 'gangbos' are just a relaunch of the ASBOs which were introduced by the previous Labour government, and I do not see the new version working any better than the old.

  • Comment number 55.

    This is a ridiculous abuse of power, and an incredible waste of money. Stopping certain people wearing certain colours and not allowing them to walk 'aggressive' dogs sounds like total and utter nonsense and a bit fascist. I heard one TV presenter this morning describe these measures as thought control, I tend to agree. Its 'new labour' but worse.

  • Comment number 56.

    Depends on the definition of a 'gang' which I assume means a group of people set on committing violence or disorder not just hanging around on a Street corner being a little noisy.
    The problem these days is that everyone believes they have 'rights' brought about by indifference to discipline and thought for everyone else as well as themselves. Some, not all, young people really believe that they can do what they like and the law cant touch them any more and the so called adults of this world do not set a very good example either.
    How the Police or Local Authority decide who is a 'gang member' and who is a member of a group of friends just being a little too noisy is going to be very hard indeed.
    I go back to my comments at the beginning, if these people are clearly set on violence or disorder and it can be proved they do it on a regular basis then 'yes' maybe some form of control order might be useful but with all the 'do gooders' and 'money grabbing' lawyers out there, they will soon find a way of getting them released from any order the law imposes.

  • Comment number 57.

    Wow, over 30 comments and I count 3 brains.

    How about, instead of froth-mouthed rabid rants, people engage their brains and think about the problem. It is clear from thousands of years of experience, and just by looking at other countries such as the USA and Mexico, that severe 'traditional' punishment just does not work.

    Unfortunately, stopping crime is something that cannot be done solely by the police. When we have employment available for everybody, pleasant and good quality social care and cheap housing for everybody who wants it we can start using the police as primary crimestoppers. Despite what some of the 'flog 'em' brigade say, many people commit crime just to get by in a world that does not always offer the opportunity to do so honestly.

    I count myself as a liberal, but I am not one of those who believe that criminals should be treated as victims. Despite what I said earlier, they made a choice to do what they did. Violent criminals should be locked up. But petty offenders should not be locked up with them, just asking to be turned into hard line thugs. They should be punished with the task of making their neighbourhood a better place. Cleaning streets, fixing street lights, etc. Locking them up serves nobody; not the taxpayer, the criminal or the victim of the crime.

    I do not believe the severity of the punishment has anything to do with crime rates. The certainty of being caught does. So more 'passive' measures must be taken. CCTV does not work, but open plan streets have been proven to. Visible police presence, working with communities, rather than people hiding behind their windows and calling for officers they do not know. No-questions-asked shelters for those caught in gangs they want no part of.

    There are real criminals out there, and they need to be stopped. You do not do this by meeting them head on, as force is always met with force. Take away their power base and ability to work in the shadows, and they will be left alone.

    Let's try actually looking at countries with low crime rates and emulating them rather than following the failed hard-line approach. Just for once. Please?

  • Comment number 58.

    I thought they were speaking of tackling gangs of kids from 7 or 8 up who slip through the criminal net. But now I inderstand the new regulations apply only to adults, for goodness sake, adults displaying such intimidating behaviour should be arrested for breach of the peace at the least. Seriously what does Government think they are doing? If its not broke don't fix it. Is this something that has slipped out from the looney Lib-Dem stable, I heard someone this morning suggesting the motive was to avoid criminalising gang members,don't make me laugh; if we are talking about adults Mr Cameron you have seriously missed the boat.

  • Comment number 59.

    Will gang injunctions tackle anti-social behaviour?

    No. Of course they won't.

  • Comment number 60.

    This country is run by a social elite of Politicians, top businessmen,titled aristos, Top Law makers and enforcers who have no interest in solving our societies problems. Because a) those problems don't affect them or b) because there is no money in it for them. I dont mind so much their apathy as much as their empty patronising rhetoric.

  • Comment number 61.

    Not one bit.

    Our politicians are totally clueless and with years of procrastination they have created an uncontrollable monster.

    What are they going to do with those that breach these orders?

    The recent riot at Ford prison is a good example and as one former inmate pointed out there is new generation of inmate namely ones that don’t care and why should they because no one cares for them as the recent Condem party policies demonstrate.

    They have little chance of jobs and what money they have will be eaten up by VAT and inflation not to mention the threat of benefit cuts.

    Our politicians are ignoring these people at their (our) peril in that we could soon see another bout of Toxteth style riots breaking out across the country and unfortunately it will be us that will suffer.

    It is time to do more to solve these serious social issues instead of simply dishing up more of the same which simply will not work.

  • Comment number 62.

    No.

    Probably the best that can be done is guard the innocent public and let the gangs wipe each other out.

  • Comment number 63.

    "6. At 12:58pm on 31 Jan 2011, Sauron the Deciever wrote:
    We'll get the usual leftist waffle that these people are from deprived homes and that they need a cuddle and some purpose in life with which to draw them away or prevent them from joining the gang culture.

    We've heard all this crap for years now and the gang culture in the UK is worse now that in has been in years.

    It's time to remove the kid gloves and exclude the left-wing from involvement in this sphere and smash these gangs with an iron fist. As a tax payer, I want a break in the money I contribute to people either too lazy or too stupid to figure out a better more harmonious and productive way to lead their lives.

    I care not one jot if several of these thugs and villains have to die to make the point.

    I can now count on two hands the number of friends who have been directly affected by gangs and their activities, roaming the streets robbing and attacking at will, with a couple of friends hospitalized as a result of the attack they had to endure. I DO NOT pay my taxes to live with this.

    Any opinion to the contrary is frankly worthless and would the left wing liberal sorts who feel that a softer more holistic approach is preferable, please do society a favour and keep your feckless, worthless, tried tested and failed opinions to your selves.

    Brute force and no sympathy is the way to deal with this situation as well as a firm hand with parents that have allowed their vile brats to behave in such a way."

    Thats odd because in EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that has tried to deal with gangs with a 'iron fist' has found the problems with gangs have increased hugely as a result.

    Gangs stem form social decay and are fueld by the illegality of drugs. Legalise and regulate illicit drugs and the gangs will have little or no way to fuel their activites.

    Go to countries where this has been tried ie: the netherlands and you will find gang crime rates have dropped hugely.

    So sorry it is you who's opniion is tried and tested and does not work. You are the typical sort of bigoted middle englander that does not wish to take reponsibility for the behaviour of others in society and attempts to dehumanise them and abuse them which in itself makes the problem worse.

  • Comment number 64.

    I agree with most contributors when they say that Gangbos will be seen as a badge of honour.

    In my opinion these youngsters should be forced off our streets - use curfews if need be. When the youngsters get bored with watching Eastenders and Strictly Dancing they will soon learn to conform.

    I would say bring back national service but why inflict gangs of yobs on the armed forces. However, maybe, these are just the sort of positive role models who could influence disenfranchised youth.

  • Comment number 65.

    "Will gang injunctions tackle anti-social behaviour?"

    Once again my crystal bal is at the menders so BBC why not wait, collect the data and publish proper answers to your questions about a year after any new proposals have been implemented? Guessing is soooo last millennia…

  • Comment number 66.

    We have plenty of laws and I suppose there is nothing wrong with this one but it doesn't deal with the problem which is that the existing laws are not enforced. If the existing laws had been enforced there would have been no need for these new laws. There seems to be a climate now in the Police Force, in the Crown Prosecution Service and in the Courts of a kind of connivance and almost an approval of bad behaviour by the young. It is almost as if they have decided that it is right to persecute all who try to stop this reign of mini terror.Because that is what it is.
    The actions of many of these gangs amount to acts intended to terrorise and how is it that this law can be used against hecklers at Labour conferences but not against gangs which are the force which enable the drug industry. We need to swamp these areas with Police and have a climate of Zero tolerance but also to ensure that these children go to school, or if older that they have jobs even if these have to be found for them.

  • Comment number 67.

    Labour camps and national service should be seriously considered as a real punishment for such offenders. Crime has been allowed to increase in this country due to the constant "softly softly" approach. Human rights do not apply to vicious thugs so an amendment to the HR bill is needed NOW!!

  • Comment number 68.

    Of course they won't work, much as ASBO's never worked.
    If they built more prisons, dealt with offenders more harshly and weren't so keen on reducing police numbers these idiots wouldn't have to come up with light weight frothy gimmics like GANGBO's

  • Comment number 69.

    More people will be forced to a life of crime under the current government, purely in order to survive when more and more opportunities to lead honest and dignified lives will be taken away so I doubt this will be effective.

  • Comment number 70.

    I agree with undyingcincinnatus (57) on some of the areas he/she mentions but I also believe that a return to national service may help install some discipline into the offender and hopefully they may be more respectful to others and their surroundings.

  • Comment number 71.

    They are our future. And today I want to set out the things that we want to do to invest in our young people and to give them hope and opportunity for the future.

    We want you to read this contract and – if we win the election – use it to hold us to account. If we don’t deliver our side of the bargain, vote us out in five years’ time.

    These were the words of David Cameron last year. This year he decided that the best help he can give is banning kids from wearing certain colours, walking dogs and frequenting certain areas. I don`t see much hope or opportunity in that. How about something more sustantial such as jobs, apprenticeships, youth centres and a future. Or is that too much to ask?

  • Comment number 72.

    "6. At 12:58pm on 31 Jan 2011, Sauron the Deciever wrote:
    We'll get the usual leftist waffle that these people are from deprived homes and that they need a cuddle and some purpose in life with which to draw them away or prevent them from joining the gang culture.

    We've heard all this crap for years now and the gang culture in the UK is worse now that in has been in years.

    It's time to remove the kid gloves and exclude the left-wing from involvement in this sphere and smash these gangs with an iron fist. As a tax payer, I want a break in the money I contribute to people either too lazy or too stupid to figure out a better more harmonious and productive way to lead their lives.

    I care not one jot if several of these thugs and villains have to die to make the point.

    I can now count on two hands the number of friends who have been directly affected by gangs and their activities, roaming the streets robbing and attacking at will, with a couple of friends hospitalized as a result of the attack they had to endure. I DO NOT pay my taxes to live with this.

    Any opinion to the contrary is frankly worthless and would the left wing liberal sorts who feel that a softer more holistic approach is preferable, please do society a favour and keep your feckless, worthless, tried tested and failed opinions to your selves.

    Brute force and no sympathy is the way to deal with this situation as well as a firm hand with parents that have allowed their vile brats to behave in such a way."
    =====================================================

    Hear Hear


  • Comment number 73.

    I really thought that things might change, with a change of Government, but it's back to passing half-baked and half-thought-through legislation, whilst failing to enforce the existing law.
    From riding a bike on a pavement, to serving alcohol to the obviously-intoxicated, observance and enforcement of the rule of law is virtually non-existent in this country.
    Remember, we're all in this Big Society together.
    If I am allowed to quote one of history's great statesmen, Abraham Lincoln: “You may fool all the people some of the time, you can even fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time.”
    We are governed by sharp-suited slick young political top-gun types, rather than statesmen.

  • Comment number 74.

    Once again the party that abolished corporal punishment for fear of harming the child, and removal of consequences for actions in the classroom by undisciplined poorly behaved offspring of absent parents, whether absent because of work alcohol drugs or prison the result is the same wayward children with no discipline with no idea of how to behave. Have chosen to ignore the elephant smoking a bong dancing a jig in the corner of the room and opted for diversionary policy tactics instead. Lets not really tackle the problem lets pretend we are, then when it fails we can blame the councils for not providing adequate funding.

  • Comment number 75.

    A team is where a boy can prove his courage on his own. A gang is where a coward goes to hide.

  • Comment number 76.

    I cant help but think it is rather short sighted, or not effectively thought ot.

    What do they consider a gang? and how ill they decide upon the difference between a group with a legal purpose.

    History suggests the on set of some gangs/groups, gave birth to the trade union movement, example tolpudle marters, we also witnessed how certain parts of our political elite tried to control the sufragets, yet both these bodies of like minded people gave birth to some of the better facets and values of our society.

    Sadly I would like to know how it is going to be policed? controling groups from walking around together, an answer could become larger and have an eefective system to become a member, with an effective/legal purpose, may be enough jsut to tip the balance, from a democratic system to an autocratic system, of what I say goes.

  • Comment number 77.

    If they're the sort of people happy to use knives and guns they're hardly likely to be deterred by a 'group asbo'. It'll just end up being a badge of honour or, worse, laughed at.

    If these little charmers are involved in gang-related violence or crime they should be locked up.

    I've just been reading a book about some of the young men who went off to fight in WWII; it breaks my heart to think they fought and died to keep this country free. Now we have gang-culture feral youths roaming the streets exploiting that freedom. They're scum.

  • Comment number 78.

    Who knows? Only time will tell. Maybe a good public flogging would be a better remedy.

  • Comment number 79.

    63. At 2:26pm on 31 Jan 2011, bigsammyb wrote:
    Thats odd because in EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that has tried to deal with gangs with a 'iron fist' has found the problems with gangs have increased hugely as a result.

    Gangs stem form social decay and are fueld by the illegality of drugs. Legalise and regulate illicit drugs and the gangs will have little or no way to fuel their activites.

    Go to countries where this has been tried ie: the netherlands and you will find gang crime rates have dropped hugely.

    So sorry it is you who's opniion is tried and tested and does not work. You are the typical sort of bigoted middle englander that does not wish to take reponsibility for the behaviour of others in society and attempts to dehumanise them and abuse them which in itself makes the problem worse.
    ==========================================================

    what absolute rubbish - legalising drugs will prevent these people from stabbing each other and harrassing old people? how? So, under your plans, basically rivalries stop beacuse, what, they'll be so high they won't be able to continue their feuds? Give me a break. If they had somewhere to smoke weed they'd be off the street? And anti social behaviour stops how?

    It is BECAUSE our country lets young people run riot without consequence that they do it. They know nothing will happen to them. Their parents never taught them about consequence so the law should.

    "You are the typical sort of bigoted middle englander that does not wish to take reponsibility for the behaviour of others in society"

    What responsibility would that be? the fact that most of us educate ourselves and seek employment? that we abide by the law? 'Oh, i am so sorry mr gang member - i didnt realise i was making you do criminal activities'. WE raise our kids properly and follow the rules and it's liberals like you that give criminals the idea that its not their fault. Sorry but it is and the punishment should fall on them, not us.

    Do we dehumanise them? yes. When people stop acting like decent human beings, yes, we see them as undecent human beings and scum because they are.

    I think perhaps you have never been affected by these 'gangs' or even 'asbo' kids. Because if you had, perhaps you wouldn't be thinking that all they need is a cup of tea and some words of encouragement.

    Move to a nice area of London, say, Newham and see how far you get with you "aww bless" attitude

  • Comment number 80.

    Why do people insist that national service will be helpful in tackling the 'gang culture' that's currently in the headlines?

    Conscription in the UK only ever applied to adults but most gang members join their gangs in their early teens, or even younger in some cases. I don't see the threat of national service when they become an adult really affecting a thirteen year old's decision to join a gang. Maybe we should allow children into the armed forces.

    Placing criminals into the British military isn't the answer. Diluting the effectiveness of our proud professional military forces with people who don't even want to be there? That will be fantastic for the morale of troopers on the front lines.

    If you don't want to spend £40,000 a year keeping them in prison, why would anyone want them to go overseas as a representative of the UK driving a £4 million tank?

    The UK had national service in the 1950s when the members of the Teddy Boy gangs were causing mayhem. Most of the members of those gangs would have been the right age to have been conscripted for 18 months and they were out on the streets before their 20th birthday. All that did was put gang members on the streets who had combat training.

  • Comment number 81.

    New, rigorous sentencing options are needed, in parallel with cognitive therapy to make these idiots understand why it is they feel the urge to behave in this tribal, primitive, chimpanzee-like way, thanks to our territorial, pack-hunting evolutionary history. (And why the rest of us who've moved on won't stand for it).

    I suppose the same could be said for football fans in some ways, though.

  • Comment number 82.

    11. At 1:07pm on 31 Jan 2011, scotty1694 wrote:
    no!

    why do we no longer put criminals into national service?
    if anything that's a worse punishment that prison to these people!

    **********************************
    Because we didn't, I think you are mixing up reality with a film called "The Dirty Dozen".
    National service was not a punishment although many thought it was.


  • Comment number 83.

    Will gang injuctions tackle this problem?

    Nope.

    I really, really, really, really, really, really blame the parents.

  • Comment number 84.

    It won't work, the authorities don't seem to get that scum don't care about rules and laws. They break both without a second thought.
    More worrying is the continuing move of 'punishing' people who have not had a chance to show they've done nothing wrong.

  • Comment number 85.

    How do you define Gang?

    Hmm! a crime to be a gang member, the dictionary says that's...

    1. an informal body of friends (social gatherings)
    2. an organized group of workmen (MP's, factory workers etc)
    3. tool consisting of a combination of implements arranged to work together (most machines)

  • Comment number 86.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 87.

    11. At 1:07pm on 31 Jan 2011, scotty1694 wrote:
    "no!

    why do we no longer put criminals into national service?"

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It requires a lot of investment over a number of years to train a soldier so they're prepared for operations in a war zone. For this reason it's cheaper to keep them in prison.

    If you don't think they should receive proper full training before sending them out to war zones in places like Afghanistan or Iraq, then you may as well just execute them on the spot and not bother...they wouldn't last 5 minutes.

    I can only assume on this basis that you think a slow painful death or being blown to smithereens is the best way of dealing with these problem people?

    Although I think we should treat them harshly and they deserve the proper level of punishment (maybe more than they're receiving at the moment), I'm not about to advocate the literal slaughter of young teenagers...even if they are little b***ards.

  • Comment number 88.

    To get my "leftie" side out of the way, these children turn to gangs because they don't have a settled home life; often with parents who don't care, take drugs (including alcohol), and have no job or self-respect. They are failed by their family, social services, the police, school, and society in general.

    Now, that said, if we were in a better financial situation as a society, there are several options that could be utilised to overcome the gang culture. Borstals and approved schools (tough love), compulsory national service (discipline) and even the creation of a community on one of the deserted Western Isles of Scotland could help to give them focus and understanding of society. The only problem is that we need our politicians to undergo the same treatment so that they also gain an understanding of society and what it means.

  • Comment number 89.

    I very much doubt gang injunctions will make any difference.

    But have any of either the liberal lefties or the right-wing "hanging's too good" advocates taken any time to talk to gang members, past and present, to understand what leads them to join and quit? Seems to me like a prerequisite to being able to offer a better solution.

  • Comment number 90.

    dfd

  • Comment number 91.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 92.

    Will gang injunctions tackle anti-social behaviour?
    Police in England and Wales have been given powers to restrict the movements of people accused of gang membership. Are 'gangbos' the best way to break this culture?

    What ever next?! Yes of course it will, 'Head Butter, Flat Nose and Broken Jaw' they will be scared witless - "I can't go out beating up tonight mate, I've got an injunction against me".
    If you think for one second an injunction will stop a serious trouble maker from going out with his gang, mugging, steaming and other crimes then you need your brains testing.
    The only real solution is a greater Police presense - not cutting back the police like this showewr is doing.

  • Comment number 93.

    75. At 3:12pm on 31 Jan 2011, Magi Tatcher wrote:
    "A team is where a boy can prove his courage on his own. A gang is where a coward goes to hide."
    This phrase has been attributed to baseball administrator Branch Rickey (1881-1965), but it seems more likely that it belongs to New York Yankee Mickey Mantle (1931-95).
    Quotation without attribution is considered rather infra dignitatem.
    The latter phrase was coined by essayist and critic William Hazlitt in 1822, and first used in its shortened form of infra dig. by Sir Walter Scott, in 1825.

  • Comment number 94.

    83. At 3:52pm on 31 Jan 2011, Sue Doughcoup wrote:
    "Will gang injuctions tackle this problem? Nope.
    I really, really, really, really, really, really blame the parents."

    For copulating, I presume?

    Sadly with by bad eyes I read that as "Will gang injections solve the problem?". I found myself thinking "powerful contraception. Would probably solve the problem in one generation."

    I'm so retarded sometimes.

  • Comment number 95.

    they are all really pointless. i chased 3 lads from our communal close on saturday night after they go in and sat smoking weed, before they scarpered i got asked not to call police because he was on tag and flashed his badge of honour!!! point made, its statistic crunching thats all it is. why not make all thugs who commit violent crimes be made to do 3 years national servic e type stuff. in barraks we dont use ( plenty out there) and send them out to the gulf...see if they are big hard men out there...

  • Comment number 96.

    How long before the authorities decide that wearing certain colours in parts of certain towns and cities (e.g. wearing red or blue in parts of Liverpool, Manchester or London), as they could be construed as being 'gang colours', and meeting up with similar minded people is an offence?

  • Comment number 97.

    The only thing that will tackle anti-social behavour and prevent crime is to enusre that young people understand the impact it has on victims and their responsibilities at an early stage. Rather than just handing out injunctions stopping them from meeting with certain friends, going to certain locations and having specific pets (dogs are not aggressive it is the owners to train them to be!) we need to use a restortative justice model which involves victims and ex gang members to educate and encorage these young people to change. No not a leftie do gooder but someone who has seen this carrot approach work far better than the stick, also it's a lot cheaper!!!

  • Comment number 98.

    6. At 12:58pm on 31 Jan 2011, Sauron the Deciever wrote:
    We'll get the usual leftist waffle that these people are from deprived homes and that they need a cuddle and some purpose in life with which to draw them away or prevent them from joining the gang culture

    and a few more paragraphs of, frankly, insulting claptrap.

    You just carry on reading the Daily Mail and forming your opinion based on it riduculously frenzied content friend.

    I think therefor I do not read the Daily Mail.


  • Comment number 99.

    Let the gangs and those who want them hanged fight it out amongst themselves. At least the rest of us would have something to laugh about. A bit like the good old romans times: panem et circenses.

  • Comment number 100.

    Laws mean absolutely nothing unless A) they are followed robustly by the police and B) the judiciary give robust, meaningful sentences...... Do I have much faith in either to do this????...Nope.
    Crime does not pay.....You're jokin'. As a nation we seem to be second rate at everything we do these days.....

 

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