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What is the future for French politics?

11:21 UK time, Sunday, 16 January 2011

Marine Le Pen is to succeed her father as leader of France's far-right National Front. Will this change the shape of politics in France?

Jean-Marie Le Pen, founder of the FN, stepped down at the weekend after four decades as leader.

Ms Le Pen says she wants to break with the party's xenophobic image - her supporters say she will bring a softer edge to the National Front, which has been widely accused of racism.

Are you in France? Will this appointment make the National Front more attractive to voters? With President Nicolas Sarkozy's popularity ratings at a record low, what impact will this have on French politics?

Thank you for your comments. This debate is now closed.

Comments

Page 1 of 4

  • Comment number 1.

    There's an anecdote in France.

    It goes like this:

    A tourist is in Le Pen's seaside home town. He's looking for the old port.
    " Je cherche le vieux port" he asks a stranger. "Il est sur la plage" comes the answer. (Depends on pronunciation of "port" and "porc" being the same in French).

  • Comment number 2.

    Get rid of the xenophobic image, but still retain the xenophobia. Thats her aim. Old habits die hard.

  • Comment number 3.

    If it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck and it quacks there's a good chance........
    What is this, the pretty face of extremism. It all depends on how gullible the French electorate are.
    I'm worried that if the likes of Nick Griffin was replaced by say someone "like" Jordan, there would be a number of people would start voting BNP for the first time, its sign of dumbed down Britain.
    I'm sure there will be people in France who react in a similar manner to Marine.

  • Comment number 4.

    What is the future for French politics?

    The BBC must think we all spend all our days staring into crystal balls, shuffling Tarot cards, or studying the entrails of dead chickens, how can we know the future?.

  • Comment number 5.

    I should think that impending spending cuts social damage and poverty/deprivation and damage to pensions etc will be more of a decider of political affiliation than the sex or looks of the leader of the FN, though with the leader of the FN being a woman it might attract more votes due to a woman being a softer and less extreme looking image than a man in the same position.

    If Sarah Palin in uSA can spout her bile and gain so much from really quite extreme attitudes, then the same/similar is a possible reality for Ms Le Pen.

  • Comment number 6.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 7.

    ...the worrying trend is that the far right seem to be gaining popularity troughout the west. Even in the UK, which is something I never thought I would see - and it seems to be mainly because mainstream politicians don't bother listening to the people who vote.

    Unless politicians stop being a state of denial and actually DO something about it, I see even more trouble ahead.

  • Comment number 8.

    Not surprised the FN vote in France is increasing-the French share similar real worries to us, mainly cheaper labour flowing West from eastern Europe, grabbing jobs when we face tough economic times and the major Parties ignoring these concerns.

  • Comment number 9.

    the extreme right waited for years in germany for adolf but were later slaughtered by the rank and file it would be foolish for the people of france to follow in the footsteps of such chaotic policies on people treatment,as if people were no better than ---

  • Comment number 10.

    Marine Le Pen is to succeed her father as leader of France's far-right National Front. Will this change the shape of politics in France?

    No, not if the regional election first round results are anything to go by.

  • Comment number 11.

    It's France!

    Who cares?

  • Comment number 12.

    The most disturbing aspect of Marine LePen's politics is her "Anti-Islamization" and how this stance resonates with the French electorate
    I'm sure that most of the political world is familiar with her December remarks comparing Muslims praying in the streets to the Nazi occupation of France, minus the tanks and soldiers. In her political stance, Le Pen has promised to defend France from creeping "Islamization".
    She's 42, sharp as a tack, and the most serious threat that could happen to President Nicolas Sarkozy.
    Le Pen: "The progressive Islamization of our country and the increase in political-religious demands are calling into question the survival of our civilization."
    She went on to talk about the fight against Islamism. (Note: not Islam, but Islamism.) What's the difference?
    Islamism is the will to impose Shariah as civil, political and religious law. She often makes points that seem resounding sensical such as: We sent out children "to Afghanistan to be killed to fight against Islamism, and we don't have the right in France through words and political action to fight it? That seems to me totally absurd."
    Le Pen refers to creeping Islamization, as though it was a creeping disease e.g. 22 Quick fast food restaurants offering exclusively Halal burgers. She also claimed that Muslim communities were receiving hidden French government funds to build "increasingly ostentatious mosque-cathedrals" or allow ones funded by Saudi Arabia.
    Islamism alone could be "the" one key issue of the 2012 presidential elections.
    How are the French people reacting?
    According to an opinion poll, 56% of sympathizers of Sarkozy's conservative UMP party back Le Pen's comments; overall 40% of all French support her comments. An Ipsos poll has just given Le Pen a 30% approval rating. One poll suggested that up to 17% of the French intended to vote for her.
    These numbers eceed her father's polling only two years before.
    Jean-Francois Cope, Head of the UMP party: "It's undisputable: the FN has been rising regularly in recent months. We are in danger from an electoral point of view."
    She has managed to distance herself from her father's claims that the Nazi gas chambers were a "detail of history" and that the German occupation of France was "not particularly inhuman." Unlike her father, she had no plans to ban abortions, and promised a referendum on reinstating the death penalty.
    The FN, Marine stated was neither racist nor xenophobic, but simply a "patriotic" party that stands in "opposition to the totalitarian character of the European Union and its desire to remove people's sovereignty." She lauded British PM David Cameron's pledge to cut immigration to Britain from about 200,000 a year to "tens of thousands," saying the French government had utterly failed to deal with legal or illegal immigration.
    My personal expectation is that Marine Le Pen will take more than 30% of the votes; it's just the nature of the times.

  • Comment number 13.

    Is Le Pen mightier than Le Sword?
    In other words I havn't got a clue.

  • Comment number 14.

    If travelling in one direction leads to a dead end & huge problems, then change of direction is enevitable for all but the most stupid conservative minded.

    If then two moderate paths result in similar negative outcomes then other paths, no matter how more extreme they are will always become an increasingly viable option and reality of choice, especially if as with the two failed paths, the third more extreme path promises the same/similar or fewer certain specifics which the other two paths have failed to deliver/provide.

    The future of French politics or any other nations politics is factually and fundamentally based upon delivery of meeting the wants and needs of people.

    The reasoning of thought that perveys the sentiment of - once a fascist always a fascist, is itself illogical and factually untrue and is just a statement which proves the blind biased ignorance of those who state such reasoning of thought.

  • Comment number 15.

    Much of Britain is already a third world country. I applaud Marine's efforts to maintain a high quality of life in France.

  • Comment number 16.

    There is no religion more bigoted that secular liberalism.

    Search as one might on the BBC website but you you will not find a liberal liberal!

  • Comment number 17.

    Ms Le Pen says she wants to break with the party's xenophobic image - her supporters say she will bring a softer edge to the National Front, which has been widely accused of racism.

    ___________________________________________________________

    Didn't Nick Griffin say the same thing? It's just in insult to the peoples intelligence. I just hope they don't get the media coverage and support they are hoping for as the BNP have.

  • Comment number 18.

    It's perhaps worth noting that because France has a written Constitution, the FN like any other party there cannot sensibly propose policy that would be unconstitutional. That makes the FN more limited in its declared aims than say, the BNP, and perhaps explains to some degree its success.

    Incidentally, a BBC journalist, reporting the thoughts of a politician in the UK recently, said he had "explained why the UK would never have a written constitution".

    Whether or not the UK does or does not eventually achieve this will depend on whether a convincing majority of we, the people want it, I think, and not the words of one politician, less so a journalist, thank you very much, BBC.

  • Comment number 19.

    there is one sure thing about politics it is an every day handshake by politicians who is on some mission of trying to destroy the world by promoting the wrong message of good faith in exchange for surrendering to the strongest grip on a nations finances.

  • Comment number 20.

    15. At 1:26pm on 16 Jan 2011, old cop USA wrote:

    Much of Britain is already a third world country. I applaud Marine's efforts to maintain a high quality of life in France.

    ______________________________

    That is possibly the funniest statement I've read so far, I'm presuming that was your intention?!

  • Comment number 21.

    our beloved mrs may said,"we are still seen as the NASTY party"i think that answers the question on the possibilty of right wing political partys becoming "softer, kinder" leopards do not change there spots...

  • Comment number 22.

    How would I know. I have enough trouble with politics in this country and to be honest I'm not really bothered and I suspect most Brits couldn't be bothered either.

  • Comment number 23.

    11. At 12:53pm on 16 Jan 2011, you wrote:
    This comment has been referred for further consideration.

    ---------------------------

    I am AMAZED! In this post I used 4 words...I used the same words (plus a few more) in the Tunisia debate and it got through no problem....maybe France is protected by the BBC? ha ha

    (two of the words were 'who cares')

    Wonder if this will get past the Francophiles?

  • Comment number 24.

    Whilst this may look like succession it is also someone who has had a life involved with this brand of politics learning from both the successes and failures. Like most things in society, when there is an imbalance a breaking point is reached where there is an extreme backlash. The FN are just waiting for the silent majority to grow tired of extreme liberalism that undermines the French tradition. Don't underestimate the FN as they will become an appealing alternative unless liberalism is reigned in.

  • Comment number 25.

    Good, hopefully she's like her father, perhaps now they'll stop workshy immigrants getting into their country on their way over here to abuse our benefits system.

  • Comment number 26.

    Fascists, far-right nationalists and fundamentalist extremists will prosper when mainstream political parties fail to listen to the concerns of the electorate.

    It has happened many times in Europe over the last 100 years often with devastating results. The EU should be very concerned that such conditions are allowed to exist.

    Mainstream political parties always react in the same way - banning people, outlawing parties and refusing to discuss difficult subjects choosing instead to shoot the messengers.

    This cycle of refusal, denial and repression means that our governments have been negligent as they have abandoned the discussion to the extremists.

    The best way to remove the extremists from the discussion is to marginalise them and this can be achieved if governments listen and respond to the concerns of the their own electorate.

  • Comment number 27.

    Joe wrote:
    15. At 1:26pm on 16 Jan 2011, old cop USA wrote:

    Much of Britain is already a third world country. I applaud Marine's efforts to maintain a high quality of life in France.

    ______________________________

    That is possibly the funniest statement I've read so far, I'm presuming that was your intention?!







    I walked London streets recently after many years of absence.

    And I had a distinct imptression I was in Ghana, Tunesia and, even more - in Pakistani Waziristan.



    [Not that Marseilles doesn't look like Rabat souk these days]

  • Comment number 28.

    I can only say that in a village bar in the middle of France one winter evening, I heard all the usual xenophobia, even though it's the cities where immigration is most evident.

    The conversation only took place after I explained that I was a visitor, not one of the incomer English working on 'the black'.

  • Comment number 29.

    The far right will gain in strenght across Europe thanks to years of flooding the continent with immigrants by the centre/left parties. Tne English Defence League probably would not even exist had not Blair and Brown made such a determined and probably successful attempt to destroy Britain. Thanks Labour.

  • Comment number 30.

    20. At 1:42pm on 16 Jan 2011, Joe wrote:
    15. At 1:26pm on 16 Jan 2011, old cop USA wrote:

    Much of Britain is already a third world country. I applaud Marine's efforts to maintain a high quality of life in France.

    ______________________________

    'That is possibly the funniest statement I've read so far, I'm presuming that was your intention?!'

    I don't find the areas of Britain that are no different from the Third World particularly amusing. I'm glad you get a laugh out of it though.

  • Comment number 31.

    Anthony's comment is commonsense and spot-on in this debate, and my point, 100%. I admit to being a Francophile, and I can say many even young French are concerned about the numbers of migrants entering, and have seen the effect of huge numbers here in London and are yes, fearful for their own country now. I have no faith at all in Cameron who is trying to marginalise a wing inside his own Party rather than, (as Anthony said) marginalise the very extreme Right. Fortunately for us in Britain, the BNP Leader is a clown but what might happen here if this silly, yet quite dangerous, Party were to have an intellectual, and charismatic Leader? Open borders inside the EU, at least during these adverse times for us all in the West, be we French, Brits, Germans or
    Italians, Dutch or whatever,should be highly urgently reviewed, but we may as well expect turkeys to vote for Christmas before the Eurocrats accede that policy. Unless this issue is tackled the extreme Right will progress and that should alarm all mainstream Parties, but alas, it won't.

  • Comment number 32.

    Best of luck to her - France always took care of its own far more than the UK ever did.

  • Comment number 33.

    These things happen when you attempt to please everybody at once. The majority get upset because they don't receive the attention they deserve and blame minorities because they get more.

  • Comment number 34.

    people make mistakes when they believe that party politics are to blame for the rise and fall of governments,via the party image personalities are throned iether for good or bad,yet government gets away with all kinds of ill concieved policies too late in the day for people to reverse gear.

  • Comment number 35.

    27. At 2:51pm on 16 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:

    Joe wrote:
    15. At 1:26pm on 16 Jan 2011, old cop USA wrote:

    Much of Britain is already a third world country. I applaud Marine's efforts to maintain a high quality of life in France.

    ______________________________

    That is possibly the funniest statement I've read so far, I'm presuming that was your intention?!







    I walked London streets recently after many years of absence.

    And I had a distinct imptression I was in Ghana, Tunesia and, even more - in Pakistani Waziristan.



    [Not that Marseilles doesn't look like Rabat souk these days]

    ________________________________________________________

    I'm assuming you're referring to those on the streets, you do know that the majority of those you see begging actually have 'a roof' over their heads right? They have somewhere to go at night.

    Their circumstances are not ideal, that's for certain, but compare London to other cities around the world; Florence, Rome, New York, Barcelona, etc, where you are guaranteed to come across people who cannot afford to buy a cup of coffee and have very little shelter or accommodation options, London is better than most, and definitely not 'Third World'.

  • Comment number 36.

    Governments throughout Europe are responding to their financial problems in very similar ways to those that their grandfathers and great grandfathers did in the 1920's and 1930's. The result is likely to be similar. Heavy unemployment, and particularly bad times for young people. Have none of them ever read Keynes?

    They are creating a very favourable climate for fascism and other extreme political ideas. So the National front parties, not only in France but throughout Europe, are likely to prosper.

    If present policies continue, the only question will be whether it is the extreme right or the extreme left which comes out on top. The right have a good start, in France and elsewhere. Initially the battle will probably be fought out on the streets, but it may develop into full scale war as it did in the 1930's.

  • Comment number 37.

    30. At 2:57pm on 16 Jan 2011, John Sparks wrote:

    20. At 1:42pm on 16 Jan 2011, Joe wrote:
    15. At 1:26pm on 16 Jan 2011, old cop USA wrote:

    Much of Britain is already a third world country. I applaud Marine's efforts to maintain a high quality of life in France.

    ______________________________

    'That is possibly the funniest statement I've read so far, I'm presuming that was your intention?!'

    I don't find the areas of Britain that are no different from the Third World particularly amusing. I'm glad you get a laugh out of it though.

    ______________________________

    I find it funny because it's a ridiculous notion, the idea that Britain is a third-world country, I would advise you to visit places such as Uganda, Venezuela, Sri Lanka, India, etc, and then give me your definition of 'Third World'.

  • Comment number 38.

    32. At 3:09pm on 16 Jan 2011, Mike wrote:

    Best of luck to her - France always took care of its own far more than the UK ever did.

    _________________

    What exactly is Britain's "own"?

  • Comment number 39.

    Here we go again, playing the "racist, fascist card" Its just a minority party.
    At least she's making a stand, not like the lot on here sitting on the fence with your hands tied up.
    If you are that concerned, think about the next time you buy your next consumer product which will be more than 99% "Made In China" where you cant raise your voice and make a stand. Be grateful YOU are in a country where you do have a choice and belief. Its called "Democracy"

  • Comment number 40.

    I do not know about France specifically, but believe that the attraction of the far-Right to some people is (1) the indifference of the political classes to the concerns of many people about immigration and multi-culturalism (2) the pandering by the political and chattering classes to minority groups in this country at the expense of the majority and (3) the race industry with its own politically motivated agenda.

  • Comment number 41.

    This is a Party that has continued to get support solely as a reaction to
    such extremely rapid culture change that the existing culture cannot absorb it. By fifty years time there will have been an adjustment and a harmonisation where all sides have compromised and different influences are no longer divisive. I think this will also apply to the BNP in the UK but in the meantime Europe seems pre programmed to many years of social strife and I see no way of changing those tribal instincts of all sides that are not controllable and no more open to reasoned judgement or debate than hunger or love.

  • Comment number 42.

    depends on the context you are looking from as to who is far right. from a tory perspective yes they are far right but from the labour perspective the tories are far right.but its all irrelevant anyway as both parties are hell bent on destroying this country .
    its unfortunate that the only politician you can believe is the far right, if they say they will rid the country of illegal immigrants you know they will go.
    Tories/Labour once their in power its a case of "oh those immigrants i thought you meant someone else
    As Tories are so fond of directing us allong the same lines as america, just what is the difference between the far right and the american tea party beats me unless its the dress code frilly hats are in jack boots are out.
    I just want a politician that does what it says on the tin doesent matter the party or the country British MPs should put their country first 100% not their parties interests or their own bank balancesame with france , maybe we should give the far right a chance because they couldnt screw up coutries more than the pathetic shower that are in place have.Just how many lies can one party spout off.
    I thought there would be a change in britain as we have had such an influx of new MPs but no they quickly learned to toe the line and while ever the old brigade stay in power thats how it will be till the electorate get fed up with it and replace it with the far right as is happening in france

  • Comment number 43.

    Nobody in the U.K. cares about France and the country doesn't have any kind of world role (apart from living off the U.K. through the E.U.) The sooner the U.K. drops its world role, which is, currently, acting as financier for American generated wars, the better. Hasn't it occurred to anyone else, by the way, that the U.K. is more than capable of creating its own nuclear deterrent (if we need one), without giving the Americans trillions of taxpayer's money? At the next election you will have the right to vote for "None of the Above" ending party politics and giving you a chance to vote on such issues as the above.

  • Comment number 44.

    The rise of Facism in the late 20s and 30s was fuelled by the depression and the lack of jobs, politicians were seen to be weak when dealing with these subjects. The alternative was communism and facism and we all know what happened next. Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin and more. The pendulum swings again and the backlash this time is aimed at present governments and the failure to ensure that people are heard and something concrete done by their representatives. Marie le Pen is one example of the backlash, the EDP and BNP are ours, the Americans will have their sector too.

    The FN will grow in strength as the French are more vocal about many things and actually demonstrate on the streets. OK the UK demonstrated against the Iraqi war but no one listened. At one point someone is going to listen to alternatives and Marie le Penn is offering that to the French. UK watch out...do something or 30% of the voters may just join groups like FN.

  • Comment number 45.

    French politics, is so engulfed by EU politics, it will mean very little, until other socialistic policies across Europe changes. Instead ask ourselves where next Greece, Spain Ireland, sadly the latter 2 are close neighbours, hence we may need to look harder at our fences, before they get broken down.

  • Comment number 46.

    No French Politics have always been a melting pot for debate, and may take another two decades to restabilize because the French politicians themselves are their own worst enemies.It is a game of intellectual debate and not a game of personal,regional and racial differences.The way forward is believing in those entrusted with authority to acheive a common goal.

  • Comment number 47.

    "40. At 3:50pm on 16 Jan 2011, Alasdair Campbell wrote:
    I do not know about France specifically, but believe that the attraction of the far-Right to some people is (1) the indifference of the political classes to the concerns of many people about immigration and multi-culturalism (2) the pandering by the political and chattering classes to minority groups in this country at the expense of the majority and (3) the race industry with its own politically motivated agenda."

    Be careful you'll be accused if racism by those on the left.

    Actually I think your comments reflect the fear politicians have of discussing the negative impact of immigration. Witness the reaction of Keith Vaz to Jack Straw's recent comments, he immediately accused Starw of stereotyping an ethinc minority rather than talk about the issue

    It shouts more about Vaz in that his reaction is suggest whites always stereotype minorites...by a logical extension of his argument he is exhibiting racism by steretyping whites, but then again who in power will criticise an MP from a minority....not othe rMP's and certainly not the media

  • Comment number 48.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 49.

    43. At 4:27pm on 16 Jan 2011, tigerspaw17 wrote:
    ...
    At the next election you will have the right to vote for "None of the Above" ending party politics and giving you a chance to vote on such issues as the above.

    ---------

    But what is this going to change?
    We all know the % of "none of the above" voters. It is not taken into account at any level. It doesn't even embarrass the politicians. The % of valid votes in the modern west is a shame for democracy. Noone cares though.

  • Comment number 50.

    The future for French politics is pretty similar to the past. Long spells of socialist govenment with far right parties gaining a little ground during difficult economic times. As soon as growth returns to France and unemployment drops, the far right will suffer.

    There are tough decisions that have to be made though - even Sarkozy who is a long way to the right of French norms has struggled to loosen labour laws and raise the retirement age beyond 62. The retirement age needs to be closer to 70 to be affordable in a country with excellent healthcare and long life expectancy.

    Steven Quas Collins

  • Comment number 51.

    When we are getting screwed by elites and banking interests it is natural that they will divert attention and anger to an easy target through the media and politicians. There is no easier target than minority groups. Why in every western country do we see the same trends or in other words the same tactic?

    People with no voice to defend themselves will be targeted its up to the rest of us not to get dragged along by addressing anger at the correct controllers of society

  • Comment number 52.

    My French wife is not a supporter but she avidly watches Marie le Pen and says she is vary hard o fault and is a very clever lady. I do not like far right politics but if she softens the party who knows.

  • Comment number 53.

    She is a lighter version of Le Pen but still she is a chip of the old block. Like father like daughter! So her views still contain the nasty aspects of xenophobia. Until she realises this, she will have a mountain to climb. In this day and age, good common sense should disarm those who preach any form of hatred!

  • Comment number 54.

    15. At 1:26pm on 16 Jan 2011, old cop USA wrote:
    Much of Britain is already a third world country. I applaud Marine's efforts to maintain a high quality of life in France.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    As far as I know Western Medical charites don,t operate in the UK, France and Germany, they do in the US. Now would you mind reframing your comment excluding the UK and include large parts of the US.

  • Comment number 55.

    What exactly is racism - a word so easily bandied about? Because I'm not in favour of mass immigration with people who have and still pour into this country with whom I have no identity with and culturally dominate large swathes of many cities and towns why should that make me a racist?

    When I grew up we didn't have Pakistani pedophile gangs sexually abusing young women, with even the police afraid to identify them for fear of being branded institutionally racist. Neither did we have young men being knifed and shot in our inner cities and towns by other young men from a certain ethnic persuasion.

    Ah, but the multi culturalists tell us, immigration has enriched our country.That's alright then.





  • Comment number 56.

    47. At 4:55pm on 16 Jan 2011, martin3647 wrote:
    "40. At 3:50pm on 16 Jan 2011, Alasdair Campbell wrote:
    I do not know about France specifically, but believe that the attraction of the far-Right to some people is (1) the indifference of the political classes to the concerns of many people about immigration and multi-culturalism (2) the pandering by the political and chattering classes to minority groups in this country at the expense of the majority and (3) the race industry with its own politically motivated agenda."

    Be careful you'll be accused if racism by those on the left.

    /////////////////////////

    Precisely.

  • Comment number 57.

    How come anyone who finds surrender to Islam abhorrent is immediately labelled as extreme right or racist ? Le Pen is a little bit of light which might just save France from the impending darkness. She's not some kind of ogre, she probably loves her country and doesn't want to see what once made it great diminished by the left wing.

  • Comment number 58.


    F comme Fasciste, N comme Nazi,

    A bas A bas le Front National!

    In my twenties when I returned from two years teaching at a university in France, I organized a trip for 27 like-minded folks to demonstrate against a Front National get-together in Strasbourg. It was after a spate of particularly distressing grave desecrations perpetrated by their membership. I have to be honest, after Jean-Marie Le Pen's record of child abuse in Algerian camps during the conflict there, and the testimony of torture brought to light by Le Monde in 2002, I think the Italians can be less shame-faced about their leader by comparison. Anyway, these ignorami won't tolerate a woman as their leader for long, irrespective of her bloodline.
    I find it incomprehensible how as many French people vote for this party as Allied Soldiers died in WWII. However, having lived in France I can also attest to the strong resistance to their toxic ideology there, from which I derive great comfort.

  • Comment number 59.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 60.

    Why don't we learn from the past?! It was only 60 years ago when this ideology killed millions of people! and it all started so gentle and democratic as is going on now!

  • Comment number 61.

    To all those who support these far-right wings!

    Yes it is RACISM! and hiding behind the topic of preventing mass immigration can't help you! You have every right to stop ALL SORT OF IMMIGRATION but you don't need to demonize the groups of racial, religious,...minority as these groups do!

  • Comment number 62.

    Where does patriotism end and racism begin?

  • Comment number 63.

    Joe wrote:

    15. At 1:26pm on 16 Jan 2011, old cop USA wrote:

    Much of Britain is already a third world country. I applaud Marine's efforts to maintain a high quality of life in France.

    ______________________________

    That is possibly the funniest statement I've read so far, I'm presuming that was your intention?!

    ______________________________

    Joe,

    I spend alot of time in France - the quality of life for the average person is far higher than the UK. The average twenty something can afford to buy a detached house with 2 acres of land in the regions (maybe not the more expensive parts). By comparison, most of my French friends are shocked by the size of houses in the UK.

  • Comment number 64.

    27. At 2:51pm on 16 Jan 2011, powermeerkat wrote:
    "I walked London streets recently after many years of absence"

    At least he's got a job!

    Can't be British! Can't spell Tunisia and sees the mountains of Waziristan along the Embankment!

  • Comment number 65.

    Why don't we learn from the past?! It was only 60 years ago when this ideology killed millions of people! and it all started so gentle and democratic as is going on now!

    ******************************************************

    I presume you are talking about political Islam. The sooner people realise that Islam is not a religion but a complete ideology, the sooner we might begin to do something to redress the threat it poses to our western civilisation. Le Penn recognises this and unfortunately in the UK the only party willing to even discuss it is the BNP. I predict a rise in support for the BNP in the UK unless mainstream parties begin to have a sensible discussion about it.

  • Comment number 66.

    The far-right is a sign of fear and protection from whatever country and this hasn't changed for centuries now.

    The best way to fight extremists is having a good and peaceful living times.
    Also not to make " Communitarianism " to raise attention in the host country, native inhabitants could feel insecure, therefore they become "racist" and join the far-right to get preventive protection.

    The French FN will not disappear for soon as long as Muslim community is getting bigger in France. I's a natural protection instinct and this is available for all countries, not especially France.

  • Comment number 67.

    65. At 7:18pm on 16 Jan 2011, Purpleapple wrote:
    I presume you are talking about political Islam. The sooner people realise that Islam is not a religion but a complete ideology, the sooner we might begin to do something to redress the threat it poses to our western civilisation. Le Penn recognises this and unfortunately in the UK the only party willing to even discuss it is the BNP. I predict a rise in support for the BNP in the UK unless mainstream parties begin to have a sensible discussion about it.


    _____________________________

    Put your tinfoil hat away and stop taking the drugs

  • Comment number 68.

    Unless posters respond along the lines of "the Le Pens are 100% wrong & that Islam is the best thing to happen in the universe".....the BBC censor will delete the comment ...so what is the point of this board???????

  • Comment number 69.

    I think you might be the one on drugs Matt... they do tend to soften the harsher edges of life's realities.

  • Comment number 70.

    France is moving slowly but inexorably to the right in politics. The French will not sit back and let their country be taken over ever again. If the only way to achieve this is to vote for Marine le Pen, they will do it, even if she is not their normal political preference.

  • Comment number 71.

    I could see Le Pens party doing rather well. People are getting heartily sick of boarders being open to peoples that would gladly see an end to democracy & free speech. At least the French people have the guts to do something about it whenever they feel an injustice is being foisted upon them. Just wish we would do the same, unfortunately when the even the 'state' broadcaster fails to report things as they really are, then what hope is there.

  • Comment number 72.

    61. At 6:49pm on 16 Jan 2011, Ali wrote:

    To all those who support these far-right wings!

    Yes it is RACISM! and hiding behind the topic of preventing mass immigration can't help you! You have every right to stop ALL SORT OF IMMIGRATION but you don't need to demonize the groups of racial, religious,...minority as these groups do!

    //////////////////

    Yes & lets not forget the modern definition of a racist
    'someone who is winning an argument with a liberal'

  • Comment number 73.

    I can't see what the fuss is about, if the french people have had enough of mass immigration from the East and Africa then they will vote for Le Pen, if their happy to see more Islamic domination of their culture then I guess they won't.
    Personally I would like a similar party in the UK, I am sick of the way Governments just allow more and more into our already over crowded shores. Then the moment this immigrants arrive they start demanding we adopt their cultures....insane!

  • Comment number 74.

    51. At 5:18pm on 16 Jan 2011, Matt wrote:

    When we are getting screwed by elites and banking interests it is natural that they will divert attention and anger to an easy target through the media and politicians. There is no easier target than minority groups. Why in every western country do we see the same trends or in other words the same tactic?

    People with no voice to defend themselves will be targeted its up to the rest of us not to get dragged along by addressing anger at the correct controllers of society.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Well said.

  • Comment number 75.

    Why is it always prefaced as France's (Far Right) National Front? Nobody in the press ever prefaces other parties as say the Far Left Labour Party or the Far Left Democrat Party. No Communist or Socialist Parties are ever branded as Far Left, everyone knows the Environmental Green movement is red inside just another new home for displaced Communists but no one ever prefaces that as the Far Left Green Party.
    I suppose as most Journalists themselves sit way out to the political Left and it must seem to them that any reasonable Conservative opinion is always very far away to the Right.

  • Comment number 76.

    69. At 7:48pm on 16 Jan 2011, Purpleapple wrote:

    I think you might be the one on drugs Matt... they do tend to soften the harsher edges of life's realities.
    _________________________________________________________
    I think you'll find Matt is right Purpleapple, lay off the fat ones you'll start seeing bears down the shop.

  • Comment number 77.

    Best of luck to her - France always took care of its own far more than the UK ever did.

    _________________

    What exactly is Britain's "own"?

    _________________

    I mean lets hope she can make a go of it and give the people of France a vision whereby it does not need to be a mish-mash of cultures and people. A place where the countries history is respected, loved, nurtured and a people can look forward to a proud nation once more free from the evil of the left. And lets hope once that happens, it spreads over here and we can take back our country again from the stranglehold of socialism and the corrupt left. Past generations are weeping when they see what we have become.



  • Comment number 78.

    73. At 8:12pm on 16 Jan 2011, sjov wrote:

    I can't see what the fuss is about, if the french people have had enough of mass immigration from the East and Africa then they will vote for Le Pen, if their happy to see more Islamic domination of their culture then I guess they won't.
    Personally I would like a similar party in the UK, I am sick of the way Governments just allow more and more into our already over crowded shores. Then the moment this immigrants arrive they start demanding we adopt their cultures....insane!
    ________________________________________________________
    The only thing "insane" is you. If you honestly believe anyone is "demanding" you adopt their culture that is. Don't be afraid sjov, I promise you it won't happen.

  • Comment number 79.

    At 8:34pm on 16 Jan 2011, moreram wrote:

    69. At 7:48pm on 16 Jan 2011, Purpleapple wrote:

    I think you might be the one on drugs Matt... they do tend to soften the harsher edges of life's realities.
    _________________________________________________________
    I think you'll find Matt is right Purpleapple, lay off the fat ones you'll start seeing bears

    *******************************************************************

    You are just reinforcing my point moream. No one is prepared to discuss this subject and all I can see are insults being bandied about. What are you afraid of? And tell me why I should find Matt right? Have a proper discussion and I will have more respect for your point of view.

  • Comment number 80.

    75. At 8:26pm on 16 Jan 2011, ONE-SICK-PUPPY wrote:

    Why is it always prefaced as France's (Far Right) National Front? Nobody in the press ever prefaces other parties as say the Far Left Labour Party or the Far Left Democrat Party. No Communist or Socialist Parties are ever branded as Far Left, everyone knows the Environmental Green movement is red inside just another new home for displaced Communists but no one ever prefaces that as the Far Left Green Party.
    I suppose as most Journalists themselves sit way out to the political Left and it must seem to them that any reasonable Conservative opinion is always very far away to the Right.
    ______________________________________
    Well, that's another way of looking at it. Also cute that "the Environmental Green Movement is red inside" just like an olive! :)

  • Comment number 81.

    15. At 1:26pm on 16 Jan 2011, old cop USA wrote:
    Much of Britain is already a third world country. I applaud Marine's efforts to maintain a high quality of life in France.


    You obviously have zero experience of any third world countries.

  • Comment number 82.

    What people fail to realise is that this situation with the banks and Labour bankrupting the country is nothing new. It heppened in the 70's and it happened before the war in Germany where socialists again bankrupted the country.

    Suggest you all read the lyrics of "Onward Conscript Army" by Charlie and his Orchestra. And see reference to the meddling of international banks and others in the creation of world war 2. The right rose then, and the right shall rise again.

  • Comment number 83.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 84.

    73. At 8:12pm on 16 Jan 2011, sjov wrote:
    I can't see what the fuss is about, if the french people have had enough of mass immigration from the East and Africa then they will vote for Le Pen, if their happy to see more Islamic domination of their culture then I guess they won't.
    Personally I would like a similar party in the UK, I am sick of the way Governments just allow more and more into our already over crowded shores. Then the moment this immigrants arrive they start demanding we adopt their cultures....insane!

    ....

    Well said! Also - congratulations for getting this past the BBC censor!

  • Comment number 85.

    82. At 8:47pm on 16 Jan 2011, Mike wrote:
    What people fail to realise is that this situation with the banks and Labour bankrupting the country is nothing new. It heppened in the 70's and it happened before the war in Germany where socialists again bankrupted the country.

    Suggest you all read the lyrics of "Onward Conscript Army" by Charlie and his Orchestra. And see reference to the meddling of international banks and others in the creation of world war 2. The right rose then, and the right shall rise again.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Are you saying that the right rising again is a good thing?

    And I don't think you can blame the "left" for the state of the economy going by the fact the whole house of cards started falling in America under the Republicans.
    Not that you could really blame them either as I reckon the banks would of done pretty much the same whoever had been in charge.

    On the other hand, your statement is chilling to say the least. I for one hope this new decade isn't the 30's of last century. It doesn't have to be Germany every time, but a far right party calling, what is ultimately a minority religion, the root of all their problems, is just going to be a repeat of history.

  • Comment number 86.

    48. At 5:03pm on 16 Jan 2011, you wrote:
    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

    ---

    I don't understand this. You removed my post because it contains Turkish quotes just like the comment#1 contains French quotes. First of all I cannot understand comment#1, because I cannot understand French (I am proud of this shortcoming). I was actually trying to convey the message that French is not a special language that we ought to be able to speak and understand. This is a common misconception from colonialist decades. My ancestors knew it well how it feels being forced to speak in French.

    You are being racist by denying Turkish quotes and allowing French quotes in a forum that clearly states that posts must be in English language.

  • Comment number 87.

    61. At 6:49pm on 16 Jan 2011, Ali wrote:
    To all those who support these far-right wings!

    Yes it is RACISM! and hiding behind the topic of preventing mass immigration can't help you! You have every right to stop ALL SORT OF IMMIGRATION but you don't need to demonize the groups of racial, religious,...minority as these groups do!

    ------

    If it is going to slow down extreme liberalism and extreme left, I welcome it.
    We need some balance.

  • Comment number 88.

    And I don't think you can blame the "left" for the state of the economy going by the fact the whole house of cards started falling in America under the Republicans.
    ----------------------------------
    When Democarts took over both the House and Senate in January of 2007 the unemployment rate was at a steady 4.6 %, and the Stock Market was rising. George Bush brought us back from both 9-11 and the collapse of the Dot-Com Bubble the collapse of the Tech Stocks.
    Everything destroying our country now,
    a bankrupt Social Security system created by Democrats,
    a bankrupt system of Governemnt pensions created by Democrats,
    a bankrupt system of Medicare created by Democrats,
    and the Housing bubble caused by Bankers who were forced by Democrat politicians to make bad loans to minorities and others who had no chance of repaying those loans, the associated demand for houses drove up the prices.
    Democrat failure to take the Energy needs of our coutry seriously persipitated the collapse.
    Every big problem my nation faces is a Democrat Party creation.

    Perahps Ms. Le Pen and the National Front needs a lesson in PR perhaps they should call themselves, Le Tea Party.

  • Comment number 89.

    So hear we go again, blame association, bliss. Time for the French to take a battering regarding xenophobic tendencies rather than reaching artificial simulated social harmonisation that modern intellectual society and political system pretends is so prevelant. Lets blame the citizens yet again or a few extremists for good measure for institutional dismal performance.

    Modern politics and higher academic influence of a western culture mentality has, without fail, caused much anxiety through this simulated indirect process.

    The USA has turned up the anti with the sad fiasco of under lying hatred which bubbles quite alarmingly near the surface that exploded so violently. There is a familiar connection, even though it may not seem of a xenophobic tendency. Slagging off and blame association is at desparate preportions and they wonder why people are angry and distrust institutions and politicians.

    So why has modern day politics become so distant and meaningless and generating so much hatred? For me identifying and coining this new phenomenom of irresponsibilty and self presevation is quite an achievement to say I'm thick as do do, hence the username.

    It may even get to the Oxford dictionary shortly. It's not xenophobia or racism that you've got to watch out for but indipertism which is even more much dangerous institutionalised phenomenom. An indipert or collectively indiperts, under the pretence of expert, uses simulated conditions of engagement, and these role play tools, representation and association, have been milked to the extremes that causes so much resentment, we cock up, you then pay ten fold and why don't you get angry aswell for good measure.

    Association and representation are nothing but forms of play rather than the established bedrock of rational behaviour. When you play with society and pretend to fix it, from a simulated perspective, a back lash prevails, you don't have to go very far back in history to see these repetitive ugly intellectual mistakes.

    Perhaps we ought to source inspiration from certain iconoc geniuses like Einstein and like or Chuck Jones of Road Runner fame. Chuck unwittingly created the so-called fix it tools that most intellectual power houses use to unleash indirect simulated mayhem on it's citizens, especially western culture without attachment.

    The ACME tools aren't what you think they are, it actually stands for Academic Centres of Manipulative Environments. These tools play (manipulate) or engage with society indirectly masquerading intellectually using objectivety and rational behaviour. Sadly when the do do hits the fan lets use blame association towards it's citizens to cover over its dismal short comings. My experience makes me feel that sadly those whom play at fixing society have a very lucrative market to work in, even better than bankers.

    So are you an indipert quick to blame rather than take on responsibilty. Remember simulated indirect engagement is actually the source of negativety and hatred not the usual sterotypical names currently bantered about.

  • Comment number 90.

    84. At 9:02pm on 16 Jan 2011, W Fletcher wrote:
    73. At 8:12pm on 16 Jan 2011, sjov wrote:
    I can't see what the fuss is about, if the french people have had enough of mass immigration from the East and Africa then they will vote for Le Pen, if their happy to see more Islamic domination of their culture then I guess they won't.
    Personally I would like a similar party in the UK, I am sick of the way Governments just allow more and more into our already over crowded shores. Then the moment this immigrants arrive they start demanding we adopt their cultures....insane!

    ....

    Well said! Also - congratulations for getting this past the BBC censor!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Oh great. Yet more "We're not allowed to speak our minds!" fake victimhood from the HYS immigrant-bashers.

    And there is a similar party in the UK. It's called the BNP. It got about 2% of the national vote in the last general election, which suggests that it is very much a minority taste.



  • Comment number 91.

    43. At 4:27pm on 16 Jan 2011, tigerspaw17 wrote:
    Nobody in the U.K. cares about France........
    ---------------------------------------------
    I've seen some ridiculous statements in the nearly 10 years I've been doing HYS, but that one takes the prize by a mile. It's not even as if it led off towards some contribution to the topic.

  • Comment number 92.

    63. At 6:58pm on 16 Jan 2011, laughingjkings wrote:
    Joe wrote:

    15. At 1:26pm on 16 Jan 2011, old cop USA wrote:

    Much of Britain is already a third world country. I applaud Marine's efforts to maintain a high quality of life in France.

    ______________________________

    That is possibly the funniest statement I've read so far, I'm presuming that was your intention?!

    ______________________________

    Joe,

    I spend alot of time in France - the quality of life for the average person is far higher than the UK. The average twenty something can afford to buy a detached house with 2 acres of land in the regions (maybe not the more expensive parts). By comparison, most of my French friends are shocked by the size of houses in the UK.


    The average "twenty something" in France is unemployed so can't afford anything. Those that are employed are priced out of the market, especially in rural France, by Baby Boomer Brits owning second homes or taking a lifestyle change.

    Whilst quality of life may, in general be better in France than in Britain it is for very different reasons.

  • Comment number 93.

    if the european people are completely ignored in trying to hold on to our identity and culture then the far right is the only option for many people. whenever anybody mentions the subject, out come the knives and scaremongering and references to hitler. most european people who disagree with an open door policy are not hate filled extremists, but beware of sheer frustration. in the uk we have voted in more of the same old oxbridge liers. i was recently in paris with my new wife, she is argentinian and thought the stories of romantic paris were true, until we found ourselves in the arab majority area, she hated it more than i did. when she came to london last year she thought it was lovely having a middle eastern area in kensal green, until she realised it wasnt some quaint quater but just a part of a massive takeover of london, now she asks me where is the 'british area' maybe having the far right in france will stop the truck stowaways getting to calais. i am sure nobody wants any form of extremists in power, but if the common man is ignored for much longer, he becomes a cornered rat!

  • Comment number 94.

    73. At 8:12pm on 16 Jan 2011, sjov wrote:
    I can't see what the fuss is about, if the french people have had enough of mass immigration from the East and Africa then they will vote for Le Pen, if their happy to see more Islamic domination of their culture then I guess they won't.
    Personally I would like a similar party in the UK, I am sick of the way Governments just allow more and more into our already over crowded shores. Then the moment this immigrants arrive they start demanding we adopt their cultures....insane!


    When has any UK government demanded that you adopt anyone's culture, let alone that of immigrant groups? You might like to look up the definition of the words "tolerate" and "adopt". You will notice they have very different meanings.

  • Comment number 95.

    83. At 9:00pm on 16 Jan 2011, Billythefirst wrote:
    75. At 8:26pm on 16 Jan 2011, ONE-SICK-PUPPY wrote:

    Why is it always prefaced as France's (Far Right) National Front? Nobody in the press ever prefaces other parties as say the Far Left Labour Party or the Far Left Democrat Party
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    OK Pup, It's a long shot but here goes..... I'm thinking it might because it's a.) It's French and b.) It's Far right...now that's a lot to get your head round so take a breath.

    Now, the reason that, for example, Nu Labour was not branded Far Left was because......can you guess? That's right it was actually a pale version of Blue or Tory Lite as some prefer, which means that not only is it not Far Left it's not even Left at all! Wow - bet your that's blown your mind hasn't it?

    Now take a rest before your next thought-free dross offload.


    The problem the pup has is that if your politics are to the right of Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun, then 90% of the world looks left wing, even the Republican party.

  • Comment number 96.

    45. At 4:52pm on 16 Jan 2011, leng wrote:
    French politics, is so engulfed by EU politics, it will mean very little, until other socialistic policies across Europe changes....
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    What nonsense.
    Have you ever been to France? Or read an article in English or French about France's attitudes within and towards the EU?
    Don't you know that France is and always has been perhaps the most nationalistic of all the members of the EU?
    And what's this about 'socialistic policies across Europe'?
    Don't you know that the three or four countries that matter most in the EU (UK, France, Germany, possibly Italy - running from the Atlantic to the Oder, and from the Baltic to the Mediterranean) have right-wing governments?

  • Comment number 97.

    79. At 8:43pm on 16 Jan 2011, Purpleapple wrote:

    At 8:34pm on 16 Jan 2011, moreram wrote:

    69. At 7:48pm on 16 Jan 2011, Purpleapple wrote:

    I think you might be the one on drugs Matt... they do tend to soften the harsher edges of life's realities.
    _________________________________________________________
    I think you'll find Matt is right Purpleapple, lay off the fat ones you'll start seeing bears

    *******************************************************************

    You are just reinforcing my point moream. No one is prepared to discuss this subject and all I can see are insults being bandied about. What are you afraid of? And tell me why I should find Matt right? Have a proper discussion and I will have more respect for your point of view.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I'm not reinforcing your point Purpleapple, if your point is what you stated above in post 65. ie "The sooner people realise that Islam is not a religion but a complete ideology, the sooner we might begin to do something to redress the threat it poses to our western civilisation." Like Matt I too do not see that western civilisation is under threat from Islam. This is why he said you must be on drugs and I agreed with him. Most of the Muslims that live in this country were born here and hold British passports, therefore they are also a part of western civilisation. I really don't understand what is fueling your fear, I suspect you have heard stories saying Muslims want to take over our country and introduce Sharia law, force women to wear burkas and stone a few now and then to keep them in line. Or something along those lines. Believe me it will never happen. Of course the BNP here and Le Penn in France want you to believe that something needs to be done now or the battle is lost. It increases their political clout to have a larger following. The problems we have begin and end with our government, not Muslims, or any other ethnic minority or subset of society for that matter. Have you heard the expression "divide and rule"? That is what's happening. There have always been immigrants to this country and there always will be and the country is better off for it, look at the selection of restaurants available. Nothing is stopping you or anyone you know living exactly the kind of life you choose. Chip shops aren't going to disappear over night if you don't stop democratically voting for them by ordering your haddock and chips now and then. Tell me, why should you have the right to tell others how they should live? Nobody is telling you to pray to Mecca five times a day (I hope :)) Live and let live! I am interested to learn specifically which parts of "western civilisation" you see as under threat. If you care to reply I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

  • Comment number 98.

    I hope she sheds the xenophobic, racist attitude of the party, but I highly doubt it. She wears the same stripes as her father. Other non-European countries should start treating racist countries similarly. They should form an economic union.

  • Comment number 99.

    82. At 8:47pm on 16 Jan 2011, Mike wrote:

    What people fail to realise is that this situation with the banks and Labour bankrupting the country is nothing new. It heppened in the 70's and it happened before the war in Germany where socialists again bankrupted the country.

    Suggest you all read the lyrics of "Onward Conscript Army" by Charlie and his Orchestra. And see reference to the meddling of international banks and others in the creation of world war 2. The right rose then, and the right shall rise again.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Ying and Yang Mike, that is why I prefer Steeler's Wheel - Stuck in the Middle.
    PS Labour didn't bankrupt the country, take a step back and you may see the bigger picture.

  • Comment number 100.

    86. At 9:32pm on 16 Jan 2011, Mustafa Yorumcu wrote:

    48. At 5:03pm on 16 Jan 2011, you wrote:
    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.

    ---

    I don't understand this. You removed my post because it contains Turkish quotes just like the comment#1 contains French quotes. First of all I cannot understand comment#1, because I cannot understand French (I am proud of this shortcoming). I was actually trying to convey the message that French is not a special language that we ought to be able to speak and understand. This is a common misconception from colonialist decades. My ancestors knew it well how it feels being forced to speak in French.

    You are being racist by denying Turkish quotes and allowing French quotes in a forum that clearly states that posts must be in English language.
    ________________________________________________
    I agree! I wrote a few words in Hungarian at the end of a post the day before yesterday and it wasn't posted! Double standards moderator! Then again perhaps the moderator knew French and saw the post wasn't offensive but doesn't speak Turkish or Hungarian so couldn't risk an infringement of house rules.

 

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