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Will increased parking fines cut driving offences?

08:54 UK time, Saturday, 20 November 2010

Some councils in England and Wales have been lobbying the government for the right to increase parking fines. Should motorists pay more?

The local authorities want to bring their fines in line with London, which has a higher upper limit of £120.

Penalties outside the capital currently have an upper limit of £70.

The British Parking Association is also calling for an increase, saying current levels are not enough of a deterrent.

Should councils be allowed to increase parking fines? Will increased fines deter motorists from committing driving offences? Would such a move unfairly penalise drivers?

Thank you for your comments. This debate is now closed.

Comments

Page 1 of 4

  • Comment number 1.

    Yes fine a captive audience. Let the crim's roam the streets as there's no police, no courts and no prisons!

  • Comment number 2.

    The motorist shouldn't have to pay any fee to park on the road we pay ROAD FUND LICENCE the motorist PAYS for the roads.
    I suggest everyone STOPS paying to park, just think about how much as a motorist you add to the countries wealth with fuel duty (about to go up by the largest amount in living history) Road Fund Licence VAT etc etc etc.

    If councils need to raise monies then charge cyclists to use the roads that the motorist pays for if cyclists want a cycle lane then make the cyclist pay for it, why should i as a motorist cover the costs for a cyclist, do they not take up the same amount of road space as a motorbike but are infinitely more of a danger, causing motorists to swerve to avoid them riding two abreast along country roads as though they have a special force field around them for protection.

  • Comment number 3.

    Moneymaking - pure and simple.

  • Comment number 4.

    This won't affect you if you parking legally! But the fine at the moment is so low that is does not deter people. If you break the law you should pay, and you can't complain that the fine is too much

  • Comment number 5.

    No. Birmingham city council attempted to extort money from me for a parking offence that never took place. It ended up taking me 18 months to clear my name. During that time the council lied blatantly rather than admit that the parking attendant concerned had acted badly. He did end up losing his job but then my car was vandalised on five occasions. I tried to get the police involved but their initial response was to laugh. The options available to me were incredibly limited because in these matters the accused is deemed guilty unless they can prove their innocence which can be very difficult as I found to my cost.

    I understand that parking needs to be managed and I would support a rise in fines on the basis that the potential for local authority fraud was completely eliminated or alternatively, councils that are found to be managing parking illegally are brought to swift and severe justice.

  • Comment number 6.

    Of course increased fines wont decrease parking offences. And the local authorities know that only too well.

    If they did decrease offences then they would not increase them otherwise they would lose money.

    The idea is to increase revenue - not decrease offences.

  • Comment number 7.

    Surely this will be more like assisted suicide and deter bad parking thus decrease income as is probably the MAIN reason why this increase is sought, to make up for declining numbers of fines.

    It is outrageous that basically private parking has been SMASHED with a sledge hammer due to a minor number of bad clampers, yet council parking is fully protected and able to substantially increase charges, which include parking fees, at the SAME time, MANY areas are actually REDUCING parking facilitys, hence actually creating illegal parking.

  • Comment number 8.

    I think the best way to deal with this situation would be too stop going into towns do your shopping online after all you can get everything and anything you want online nowadays.

    Let local businesses go under once the business community complain and their businesses start folding the town councils should react, if they don’t then the town dies it’s happened before it can happen again.

    One thing British people could do is to boycott the towns that do increase their parking charges / fines on specific days, gradually building up the boycott over a period of days or weeks until the town becomes empty and the local councils see the light.

    It’s about time British people took back some power and we have that power all we have to do is learn to use it wisely and effectively.

  • Comment number 9.

    Will increased parking fines cut driving offences?

    Are you joking? They will simply invent more laws to transgress. ££££££££.

  • Comment number 10.

    #2 no victim no crime wrote:
    If councils need to raise monies then charge cyclists to use the roads that the motorist pays for if cyclists want a cycle lane then make the cyclist pay for it, why should i as a motorist cover the costs for a cyclist, do they not take up the same amount of road space as a motorbike but are infinitely more of a danger, causing motorists to swerve to avoid them riding two abreast along country roads as though they have a special force field around them for protection.

    ==============================================================
    I cycle to work where I drive for a living.
    Earlier this year on the way to work I was knocked off my bike by a half asleep driver.

    Later this year driving back to my depot, there was a cyclist riding towards me. A 4X4 came up behind the cyclist saw him at the last moment and swerved into the front of my vehicle.

    Now what was your point about dangerous cyclists?

  • Comment number 11.

    They need to charge a penalty to deter people from breaking the law. If people don’t want to pay fine the solution is very simple do not park where you are not meant to.

  • Comment number 12.

    4. At 09:19am on 20 Nov 2010, tanny_lou wrote:
    This won't affect you if you parking legally! But the fine at the moment is so low that is does not deter people. If you break the law you should pay, and you can't complain that the fine is too much.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    The problem with this old chestnut of an argument ( i.e. if you don't break the law then you have nothing to worry about ) has one fundamental flaw:

    It assumes that the law in question is fair and reasonable.

    And a lot of laws ( especially laws relating to traffic ) are far from fair and reasonable; many are just made up on a whim with the sole intention of generating money and have nothing to do with much else.

  • Comment number 13.

    Higher fines will probably not make any difference to illegal parking. They will make a big difference to local government though, as they will be able to make even more money out of the good old British public. Perhaps they can spend tis extra income on more pointless jobs, or higher pension contributions for their underworked employees !

  • Comment number 14.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 15.

    Just another stealth tax however it is one that can be avoided. We should all send a message by not parking where we can be fined.

    The downside is that we would then of course face an increase in council tax to make up the difference.

  • Comment number 16.

    11. At 09:29am on 20 Nov 2010, A Smith wrote:
    They need to charge a penalty to deter people from breaking the law. If people don’t want to pay fine the solution is very simple do not park where you are not meant to.
    ---------------------
    I agree; and can we start by making it illegal for A Smith to park outside his/her house or on his/her drive. I assume you'd be happy with that ? After all, you suggested it.

  • Comment number 17.

    have just heard the news re. increasing parking fines because £50 fine reduced to £25 for prompt payment is not a deterrent when compared to an all day parking charge of £25 .Simple solution ! Reduce the all day parking charge to £10 ! Perhaps a webb page could be set up by councils to have a referendum .Let local taxpayers decide .

  • Comment number 18.

    There are far too many vehicles and there will never be enough parking spaces.
    Reduce the number of vehicles.

  • Comment number 19.

    It is what the UK is very good at - making people's lives miserable. It has spent years perfecting the techniques.

    If councils provided suitable parking facilitites (like in California) nobody would have to park on yellow lines.

    This is precisely why, where possible, people do their shopping in a shopping mall with the result that many traditional high street shops close down. Let councils increase charges and also let them see their local economy decline.

    Some councils provide "Park & Ride". But do you really want to get into a bus with pushchairs and other people's screaming noisy brats, specially if the weather is bad...and if you are not in good health.

    The authorities are very happy for people to buy cars and rake in the huge income motoring taxes creates. They cannot then complain about problems motoring creates.



  • Comment number 20.

    If those who commit 'proper' crimes were to be dealt with as severely as the motorist, I dare say our crime figures would drop markedly. But that is the way things are in this country - hit the easy target.

  • Comment number 21.

    This is ANOTHER RIP OFF on the motorist
    We pay a road fund for the privilage of using the roads WHY should we PAY MORE for parking except in Pay Car Parks
    Typical councils

  • Comment number 22.

    I supply many small retailers throughout london. My vans risk fines every day when they are trying to deliver. I am at the point of being unable to supply certain shops. In addition, the customers of those shops risk fines if they stop outside, perhaps to collect a heavy item.
    It is quite apparent that councils are just raising revenue rather that helping traffic flow. What they are in fact doing, is closing down small businesses and making waste lands of our high streets. They are also forcing more traffic onto the roads as consumers are forced to travel to big out of town stores.

  • Comment number 23.

    Well the logic is obvious - make it illegal to park your car practically anywhere it might be useful to park a car - then introduce draconian legal penalties and 'private' parking traffic wardens in all other 'parking areas' - Charge ridiculous amounts for 'legitimate' parking facilities - and then sit back and watch the profiteering commence....

  • Comment number 24.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 25.

    Great idea , use motorists to raise revenue for inefficient councils so they can keep on employing people in non jobs.

  • Comment number 26.

    #18 johnnybgood wrote:
    There are far too many vehicles and there will never be enough parking spaces.
    Reduce the number of vehicles.

    =========================================================
    You mean make every household with more than one car give them up, or make people who live in towns get rid of there cars because of the bus service thats available.
    Just thought of a flaw with that last one.... No Parking Fines, so that won't work.

  • Comment number 27.

    #23 The Ghosts of John Galt wrote:
    Well the logic is obvious - make it illegal to park your car practically anywhere it might be useful to park a car - then introduce draconian legal penalties and 'private' parking traffic wardens in all other 'parking areas' - Charge ridiculous amounts for 'legitimate' parking facilities - and then sit back and watch the profiteering commence....

    ================================================================
    Basic CONservatism you mean.

  • Comment number 28.

    I think the government ought to ring fence what they get from the motorist in revenue to spend on transportation alone, with a minimum of 30% allocated to roads.
    That way, our roads will be better and safer and there will be money in the pot to build specialised cycle tracks, cycle hire centres, to support and subsidise public transport,(sometimes called buses,trams and trains.)
    Then we wouldnt need excessive parking charges and parking ( they are not officially called fines. A fine can only be implemented in a court of law ) levies.

  • Comment number 29.

    5. At 09:23am on 20 Nov 2010, Brendan MacLean wrote:
    No. Birmingham city council attempted to extort money from me for a parking offence that never took place. It ended up taking me 18 months to clear my name. During that time the council lied blatantly rather than admit that the parking attendant concerned had acted badly. He did end up losing his job but then my car was vandalised on five occasions. I tried to get the police involved but their initial response was to laugh. The options available to me were incredibly limited because in these matters the accused is deemed guilty unless they can prove their innocence which can be very difficult as I found to my cost.

    I understand that parking needs to be managed and I would support a rise in fines on the basis that the potential for local authority fraud was completely eliminated or alternatively, councils that are found to be managing parking illegally are brought to swift and severe justice.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    You should have contacted Neil Herron at the Metric Martyrs. He specialises in this sort of thing

  • Comment number 30.

    This is not supprising news.
    If the government cut budgets then this is just the start.

    Traffic wardens in Bradford are ticket happy, I have even seen some of them hidding behind walls, waiting till someone parks then when they are gone run over and slap a ticket on the car.

    I walked down one road near the college (on a college holiday) and there must of been around 50 cars with tickets on.
    The government dont need to address the price but the way they issue them and the tactics behind the officers.

  • Comment number 31.

    8. At 09:27am on 20 Nov 2010, Steve wrote:
    I think the best way to deal with this situation would be too stop going into towns do your shopping online after all you can get everything and anything you want online nowadays.

    Let local businesses go under once the business community complain and their businesses start folding the town councils should react, if they don’t then the town dies it’s happened before it can happen again.

    One thing British people could do is to boycott the towns that do increase their parking charges / fines on specific days, gradually building up the boycott over a period of days or weeks until the town becomes empty and the local councils see the light.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------


    Steve, thanks for your support of small independent retailers like myself who try to eek out a living whilst paying for all the stock I hold, excessive business rates, high rents and keep a roof over my familys head, just so numpties like you can spend a leisurely saturdey stolling through your local high street.

    I hope that when you next visit an independent retailer, you introduce yourself as the idiot that wants them to go under.

  • Comment number 32.

    12. At 09:37am on 20 Nov 2010, HaveIGotThatWrong wrote:
    4. At 09:19am on 20 Nov 2010, tanny_lou wrote:
    This won't affect you if you parking legally! But the fine at the moment is so low that is does not deter people. If you break the law you should pay, and you can't complain that the fine is too much.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    The problem with this old chestnut of an argument ( i.e. if you don't break the law then you have nothing to worry about ) has one fundamental flaw:

    It assumes that the law in question is fair and reasonable.

    And a lot of laws ( especially laws relating to traffic ) are far from fair and reasonable; many are just made up on a whim with the sole intention of generating money and have nothing to do with much else.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Incompetence, moral bankruptcy and corruption is beautifully manifest in local council money generating activities!


  • Comment number 33.

    Give every town,city, villiage Londons bus, tube, train service and then people would not have to park in the street .

  • Comment number 34.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 35.

    I drive between 40 and 80 thousand miles a year and in 27 years of driving i have NEVER had a parking ticket.

    Bad parkers deserve what they get.

    What i would say is I think that car parking prices are too high and MUST not rise with the rise in fines!

  • Comment number 36.

    The majority of parking offences (in parking spaces) outside London happen by accident, eg: delays in shops, illness, pedestrian congestion, broken ticket machines etc etc.

    Bullying the majority (with excessive fines) who are suffering a problem and who are already are doing there best to arrive on time, is a sad reflection on our society.

    Parking fines and procedures need to change, fines should reflect the nature of the offence, a slight accidental delay should cost far less than an all day deliberate offender, but the fines are the same.

    There should be much better ways of dealing with faulty ticket machines and drivers should not be punished because of this frequent failure.

    Fear of the bullying that does happen is making people unwilling to visit towns where there are problems.

    Three recent experiences...

    KENDAL

    A broken ticket machine (would not accept our coins) in a strange town (Kendal) dictated finding a parking attendant, there was no one in the office (unknown to us he was already putting a ticket on the car within two minutes of arrival), next step was to phone the number given, but no answer despite constantly trying, next step go and get different coins, on return we found the ticket on the car and the Council refused to accept the valid ticket as proof of payment.

    Initially fined £140 (because we fought it), the Councils excuse was there was another (concealed) ticket machine elsewhere and the bullying and fine / costs increased, it took three months and legal help (£400) to win, the Council admitted not disclosing the terms and conditions and what to do when a ticket machine would not give a ticket, their official excuse, "the public had to much information to deal with".

    HOUNSLOW

    We planned to visit Hounslow and use on street car parking of which there was plenty, in advance we asked the Council to tell us the charges and coins we could use to be sure there would be no problem. They could not tell us, simply saying, "park first and look at the signs". OK we said if we have to go and get correct change can you guarantee we won't get a ticket, no they said, we did not go to Hounslow. Three weeks later the Council informed us of the parking charges, but could not tell us the coins we would need.

    SALISBURY

    Ticket machine not giving tickets, no alternative machine, no answer to telephone number given despite constantly trying.

  • Comment number 37.

    Come to weston super mare-No Wardens so no restrictions enforce-absolute nightmare!

  • Comment number 38.

    On the contrary, local councils need to revert to their purpose: to provide local services... which include places to park when using town centres! As a local resident, I - along with everyone else who lives here - own all 'public' land already, and as a payer of council tax am contributing to its upkeep. Why should I be asked to pay again to park my car on it?

  • Comment number 39.


    Don't we have enough misery already. These blockheads in councils sure know how to put the boot in.
    It's just money making.

  • Comment number 40.

    "18. At 09:47am on 20 Nov 2010, Johnnybgood wrote:
    There are far too many vehicles and there will never be enough parking spaces.
    Reduce the number of vehicles."

    Spoken like a true Tory or a Green. Cant have the working class have their own vehicles - spoils the journey for the rich. Get them on the buses instead!
    The answers are lower car parking charges and build more car parks. And dont say there is no space for more car parks. I havent been in a major town or city where parts of the centre are desolate.

  • Comment number 41.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 42.

    Why should I care. Like many people I stopped going into town years ago.
    You can get all you need out of town and on the net.
    It's too expensive and too much hassle. Councils have killed off their centres

  • Comment number 43.

    I consider it disgraceful that councils charge so much for their residents to use car-parking, off-road and on-road. Why should people have to pay to stop and collect some shopping ?

    Then doubly disgraceful in the application of yellow lines and arbitrary rules (I was fined for parking quite considerately and safely but not in a box!). Yellow lines often placed to force people into pay-parking.

    I avoid visiting towns which have no free parking - they lose my business.

    If you agree then make your voice heard.

  • Comment number 44.

    Seemingly you cannot question the ethnic origin, qualifications, brain power or anything about traffic wardens. I am wondering who got my posts removed? Was it a traffic warden or was it an ethnic minority angered over the thought that one of these loathsome creatures could ever be seen to be one of their own?

  • Comment number 45.

    Will increased parking fines cut driving offences?


    Since when has illegally parking been a "Driving Offence"?

  • Comment number 46.

    If a road /area is "no parking" and people do park then a fine should be applied and paid.

    The problem is that there are many yellow lines and restrictions that are simply ignored and not enforced.

    We can't have it both ways.

    Personally I think that laws that are passed need to be applied and enforced, end of.

  • Comment number 47.

    "39. At 10:50am on 20 Nov 2010, David wrote:

    Don't we have enough misery already. These blockheads in councils sure know how to put the boot in.

    It's just money making."

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Its not money making if you abide by the rules!

  • Comment number 48.

    Are these councils who want to have hugh hikes in penalty fine tory councils.And if it is not to put more money into council coffers then why are they really trying to get it enforced in law.Our tory council (Ipswich)are stopping half of the local park & ride in order ,so they say,to save money. This will only drive more cars to go into town and try and park.The town already has more private (NCP etc)car parks then council car parks.NCP etc charge exorbitant rates, way over the top,to which the council get a fair old rake off.Now you begin to see why the councils want parking fines to be raised so high.They hope it will drive motorists into the NCP car parks so that they can extort even more money from the motorist by NCP and the council putting up the car parking charges.

  • Comment number 49.

    Well, judging by the number and the relative newness of cars on the roads these days there is certainly plenty of cash around. The thing that amazes me as an infrequent car user, but listening to others, is that at one moment the car is their most precious possession and woe betide anyone that touches it. And a nanosecond later it is an encumbrance and they can't wait to get rid of it when it comes to parking. They also expect safe parking as well as it being free. Well I for one don't want my taxes to pay for free/subsidised parking and anyone that parks their car in a daft place deserves it being towed away and crushed.

    That's the trouble with car users. They think they have the right to go when they want, where they want, park where they want and do it all for free. Just because they have forked out several thousand pounds on an anti-environment metal box on wheels.

    It is about time that the government legislated against on-street parking anyway. What an eyesore.

    So basically yes, bring on higher parking fines. The higher the better.

  • Comment number 50.

    This is just a fund raiser from the councils, nothing more, nothing less. Will it benefit anyone? Yes, on-line retailers. Doubtless next week HYS will be about empty high streets, and the same councils will be quoted as 'doing everything they can to support local' communities.

    £70, never mind £120, represents several weeks disposable income for a great number of people, which completely unreasonable. I for one cannot afford the risk of incurring it, so simply do not shop locally.

    Bye-bye 'high street'.



  • Comment number 51.

    I am sure readers and listeners to this topic will be interested to hear that under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, I found out that North Lincolnshire Council issue Exemption Certificates allowing their employess to park FOR FREE in public paying car parks in North Linclonshire. Currently this certificate is issued to 704 employees. Whether or not they use this certificate to also take the opportunity to park at weekends etc is another matter. I am informed that their employees have been receiving this ooncession since 1997. If members of the public who need to park for work then they can purchase an annual ticket at a cost of £360 per annum. Work out the maths but by my reckoning thats a sum of £253,440 the council are losing by not charging their employees. My question to them was how could they justify allowing their employees to park for free, and their answer was it wasn't fair to those employees who worked in a building that had a private car park. WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH AND TYPICAL OF LOCAL AUTHORITIES!!!!

  • Comment number 52.

    >This won't affect you if you parking legally!
    >If you break the law you should pay
    It's nothing to do with the law, it's not a crime, its a totally arbitrary civil matter.

    The Bill of Rights 1869 (part of our written constitution) section 12 states 'That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegal and void.

    So our very constitution disallows fines without conviction of a CRIME - not some arbitrary, cynical system of rules decided on by some suit in a snazzy office that never did a useful day's work in their lives wondering how to garner enough cash from the people they are supposed to represent to cover his next expenses jolly.

    Refuse to pay it, fines without conviction are unconstitutional !!!!

  • Comment number 53.

    Parking restrictions, and the fines that go with them, should only apply where parking would cause danger or an obstruction.

    The concept of placing meters etc on selected stretches of road, which by definition are suitable for parking, should be abolished as it is clearly only another tax, the motorist having already paid road fund licence.

    If the government want to make money, fine those without tax and insurance £5,000 plus 6 months hard labour. Also tax all foreign lorries entering the country who contribute nothing and damage our roads.

  • Comment number 54.

    This sounds like something Labour would do. I bet you these are Labour-run councils. This stinks of the left wing from top to bottom.

    As for tickets, I never pay the ones issued by private companies. They hassle you for a bit, but eventually give up when the only response they get is horrific abuse from my potty mouth.

  • Comment number 55.

    >Its not money making if you abide by the rules!
    However successful it is in stripping decent folk of a days wages at a time it's nevertheless designed as a money maker, we know that, the council know that.

    'abiding by the rules' is all very well when the rules are just, fair and proportionate; but if everyone always abided by rules regardless of their properness, we'd probably still have slavery and women wouldn't have the vote.

    Tut the rules are supposed to be there to benefit society, not generate income.

  • Comment number 56.

    47. At 11:03am on 20 Nov 2010, Clive Hamilton wrote:
    "39. At 10:50am on 20 Nov 2010, David wrote:

    Don't we have enough misery already. These blockheads in councils sure know how to put the boot in.

    It's just money making."

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Its not money making if you abide by the rules!
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Yes, but you have to have a sensible limit. For me £35 is deterent enough.I recently got that for being 3 minutes late .OK I broke the rules,(unavoidably as it happens), but the way we are going, parking fines will be higher than physical assaulting someone. It has nothing to do with rules. IT's a money raising racket.

  • Comment number 57.

    I dont mind fines provided the signs for the no parking areas are clear. Sometimes the signs seem deliberately confusing and need an expert to work out just what you can do and when.

  • Comment number 58.

    You know, somebody actually complimented me on my driving today. They left a little note on the windscreen, it said 'Parking Fine.'

  • Comment number 59.

    Councils will kill the traditional town centres.

    Why would anyone want to cope with traffic congestion, sky high parking charges, pedestrian rage, just to shop in town centres that often don't have what you are looking for after hours of fruitless searching?

    The more thay take parking spaces away and hike parking fees and fines the more people will shop at out of town sites. The parking is plentiful and usually free. With the big supermarkets stocking a vast range of items it is usually possible to do a one stop shop.

    The other major competitor is the internet. For years now I have done most of my non food and household shopping on the internet. It is reliable and usually much cheaper.

    The only reason I now I go into a town centre is to have a look in charity shops, the numbers of which are ever increasing.

    It is false economy for the councils to think they can offset cuts at the expense of the motorist. Shops in town centres are closing down at an alarming rate, thus reducing the amount of business rates councils are receiving.

    Councils need a new formula. Make town centres easy and cheap to park your car. Retailers will see more footfall and increasing sales.

    I for one will keep the internet retailers in business until shopping in towns becomes a pleasurable experiece once again.

  • Comment number 60.

    Councils have been complaining about the cost of up-keep on the car parks,

    Well what about the cost of up keep on the miles of bus lanes we have in each city, shouldn't they charge the bus services to use them, because the way I see it, cars are not supposed to be driving in them so why should the up keep come from the road fund license. The road systems has been adapted so busses have priority. That priority should be paid for by the bus company's why dont the council leech money from busses for a change.

    Secondly the council raised the cost of park in Oxford and they found that people stopped using the parking and the council ultimately lost money from something they wanted to make more from, because the were greedy.

  • Comment number 61.

    52. At 11:11am on 20 Nov 2010, Chris wrote:

    >This won't affect you if you parking legally!
    >If you break the law you should pay
    It's nothing to do with the law, it's not a crime, its a totally arbitrary civil matter.

    The Bill of Rights 1869 (part of our written constitution) section 12 states 'That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegal and void.

    So our very constitution disallows fines without conviction of a CRIME - not some arbitrary, cynical system of rules decided on by some suit in a snazzy office that never did a useful day's work in their lives wondering how to garner enough cash from the people they are supposed to represent to cover his next expenses jolly.

    Refuse to pay it, fines without conviction are unconstitutional !!!!


    Nice try! However, under constitutional law, the Bill of Rights Act 1689 gives way to the Road Traffic Acts of 1991 and 1994. This is because Road Traffic Acts provide for penalties outside of a court and, under British law, it is the later Act that takes precedence. Thus, the Road Traffic Acts of 1991 and 1994 repeal the Bill of Rights Act to the extent that they differ.

  • Comment number 62.

    2. At 09:15am on 20 Nov 2010, No Victim No Crime wrote:

    The motorist shouldn't have to pay any fee to park on the road we pay ROAD FUND LICENCE the motorist PAYS for the roads.


    Nobody has the right to park on the public highway, the exception being an area specifically marked as a parking place and then one is obliged to to obey the rules applied to that parking place. The Public Highway is provided for the pupose of locomotion, being able to use the highway for this purpose is one of our oldest and most basic rights, people who park on the highway are depriving others of the right to use that piece of highway for the purpose of locomotion.

    "A right of highway confers on the public a right to use the surface for the ordainary purposes of locomtion. It is the kind of right that has existed in this country and elsewhere from the infancy of civilisation.......It was known in the Roman law as res publica......The nature of the right is to use the surface for the pupose of locomotion by carriage or foot but not to exercise any other rights of property."
    from Waddell V Earl of Buchan

    From the Highway Act 1980
    "If a person without lawful authority or excuse, in any way willfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine."

    "Any usage of the highway which diminishes the space available to the public for passing and repassing is prime facie an obstruction."

    It's time we stopped selfih people from depriving us of our right to use the highway, they restrict us to the middle third of the road causing congestion making it longer and more costly to travel and making the roads far more dangerous, this is particularly exacerbated by the modern fad for huge 4x4 and people carriers.
    The first thing is to ban clamping, clamping a vehicle thats causing an obstruction is the stupidist idea ever thought of, it makes the problem worse by prolonging the obstruction while the vehicle is unclamped. Every council should have a towing away team big enough to remove all vehicles obstructing the highway and the fines to recover the vehicle should be set to ensure the towing away team makes a comfortable profit with no upper limit set by government, the council merely have to show that their profit is not excessive.

  • Comment number 63.

    Like many people, I can't afford to park in my local town centre so simply don't go. My car keys once got locked inside my car and so I got a ticket, fortunately the people at the council were kind and let me off, if they hadn't I wouldn't have been able to afford to eat until pay day. The fine is already far too high and increasing it to 3 days wages could start a chain reaction where famillies end up on the street. Never forget that 1/3 of the money councils get goes straight to their pensions not services.

    The Tories claimed they would end the war on motorists, if they let this through they are liars like the Lib Dem leadership and don't deserve to be in power (although al least they didn't all sign public pledges about the issue).

    Scrapping town centre parking charges would help stimulate the local economy and drag ourselves out of a financial mess

  • Comment number 64.

    I regularly see cars parked very dangerously (let alone illegally) near where I live and not much seems to happen about it - despite the public surveilance cameras one of our local authorities installed. If I stood stock still in an inconvenient place on the pavement of our nearest town I would be forcibly removed and probably arrested within about ten minutes - why does this not happen with potentially dangerous parked cars?

  • Comment number 65.

    Will increased fines help to deter illegal parkers -NO!
    There will always be chancers who will park in short stay free bays or residents only rather than pay parking charges. These people often damage local business by taking up short stay free bays stopping those genuinely want to use a local shop, for example, parking for a short time.

    On another note all council employees should have to pay to park at their offices rather than getting free parking and should be encouraged to use public transport to come to work on - if this were the case maybe then buses would run at times to allow people to use them to go to work on.

  • Comment number 66.

    59. At 11:25am on 20 Nov 2010, England is Ruined wrote:
    Councils will kill the traditional town centres.

    Why would anyone want to cope with traffic congestion, sky high parking charges, pedestrian rage, just to shop in town centres that often don't have what you are looking for after hours of fruitless searching?

    The more thay take parking spaces away and hike parking fees and fines the more people will shop at out of town sites. The parking is plentiful and usually free. With the big supermarkets stocking a vast range of items it is usually possible to do a one stop shop.

    The other major competitor is the internet. For years now I have done most of my non food and household shopping on the internet. It is reliable and usually much cheaper.

    The only reason I now I go into a town centre is to have a look in charity shops, the numbers of which are ever increasing.

    It is false economy for the councils to think they can offset cuts at the expense of the motorist. Shops in town centres are closing down at an alarming rate, thus reducing the amount of business rates councils are receiving.

    Councils need a new formula. Make town centres easy and cheap to park your car. Retailers will see more footfall and increasing sales.

    I for one will keep the internet retailers in business until shopping in towns becomes a pleasurable experiece once again.
    ----------------------------------

    Typical spoilt brat attitude from the people who cause a problem. If I can't use my car cheaply and how I like then I am going to stamp my feet and not live within the limits of our society. Why don't you get public transport, or are you just too wedded to your motor?

  • Comment number 67.

    My daily commute to work would be far easier and faster if it were not for all the vehicles parked where they are not supposed to be obstructing the traffic & slowing everyone down. SO I am all for increased fines, £300 reduced to £150 sounds about right. Plus they should allow CCTV footage to count for issuing fines.

    As for Pay-and-Display over-stay penalties, the fine is clearly shown; If you do not want a fine do not be late back, buy a longer stay, or simply park elsewhere.

    My local P&D car park is only a 4 minute walk closer to the town centre than a larger car park that is FREE.

    I personally tend to use "out of town" retail parks as they tend to be free to park in.

    But the main reason people park where they know they should not is that they know the chances are they will not get caught.

  • Comment number 68.

    • 26. At 10:08am on 20 Nov 2010, Coggin wrote:
    #18 johnnybgood wrote:
    There are far too many vehicles and there will never be enough parking spaces.
    Reduce the number of vehicles.

    =========================================================
    You mean make every household with more than one car give them up, or make people who live in towns get rid of there cars because of the bus service thats available.
    Just thought of a flaw with that last one.... No Parking Fines, so that won't work.


    So what happens if you live in the town centre but still need a car because you work in an area not on a bus route,

    Like most people assume that everyone works in a town centre, lives in a town centre or can walk or cycle to do their business, but what happens of you need equipment to do your business which weighs a lot for example plumbers. I never understand people who say well “ don’t park illegally and you won’t get fined” what happens if you are a plumber, gasman, electrician, delivery driver and the nearst parking is ½ a mile away and you still need to do a job?

  • Comment number 69.

    Suppose we enforce the unpaid fines incurred by diplomats instead?

  • Comment number 70.

    These fines are wrong because the basis for charging is wrong.

    You are asked to guess how long you will stay and if you get it wrong you are penalised very heavily. If you go to an NCP you are charged for how long you actually stayed - quite right (although it should be per-minute, not in bands of hours).

    The council ask you t o guess and then instead of simply charging for the extra they hit you fro £60 or something.

    Better legislation would be to force ALL parking providers to install a method of charging whereby you are charged WHEN YOU LEAVE for the amount of time you have actually stayed.

  • Comment number 71.

    • 66. At 11:46am on 20 Nov 2010, Sue Doughcoup wrote:


    Typical spoilt brat attitude from the people who cause a problem. If I can't use my car cheaply and how I like then I am going to stamp my feet and not live within the limits of our society. Why don't you get public transport, or are you just too wedded to your motor?
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Sue I bet you live in town centre and work in an office in that same town centre which does not require to carry anything heavy, but unfortunately you assume everyone has the same situation as you.

  • Comment number 72.

    Everyone should have to pay to park their car if it is outside their own land. The number of cars in our streets is testiment to the myth of we are in a recession. How come they are not paying for parking. They don't own the roadside outside their house. Do they?

    Of course there will be exceptions. One doesn't wish to be too unreasonable but supermarket car parks etc have their upkeep paid for in the cost of goods. But all public servants should pay for car parking. Not my taxes.

  • Comment number 73.

    They started this "warden hiding in every doorway" routine in N Wales where I live and they have had a success in the fact illegal parking has dropped dramaticaly as everyone has stopped coming here ,half the shops in our high streets have closed and the visitors now go elswhere. Well done Denbighshire CC who are single handidly closing the area down, I suggest people stop going to places that rip off the motorists

  • Comment number 74.

    Balance of Probability.
    7 taps on the ENFORCERS keypad AB 99 CDE and the keeper of that vehicle is done for £70.

    False Parking Tickets have been and will continue to be issued.

    Suggest BOYCOTT towns and trading estates that financially abuse us.

    Use the power of the pocket book.

  • Comment number 75.

    There are really only two ways to get people to alter their behaviour. Firstly you appeal to their better nature. If that fails you make the consequences of their actions so unpleasant that they refrain from taking the action in the first place.

    In this particular case, parking, appealing to (some) drivers better nature is clearly a waste of time so the punishment which is designed to stop them doing it is to fine them. If this does not stop them you have to do something else to stop them parking illegally, either increase the fine or impose some other sanction. The only way you will solve it is to keep ratcheting it up until they stop.

    Currently people still park illegally because they either think the odds of them being caught is sufficiently small to take the risk or the level of the fine is such that they will risk it.

    In a really extreme hypothetical example (which I'm not advocating) if drivers thought that the chances of them being caught were 80% and the penalty was having your car crushed I suspect very few would do it.

  • Comment number 76.

    BBC correspondent Ben Ando said since local councils took over parking controls from the police the number of parking fines has soared, in some cases rising by seven times the previous level.

    I think that says it all.

  • Comment number 77.

    In Cambridge, for example, it can cost £23 a day to park - about the same as in London - but the standard fine for non-payment is £50, which is halved if it is settled quickly.

    That`s £115.00 a week just to work!! Profiteering by any other name.

  • Comment number 78.

    Despite DoTp's assertion to the contrary, the local councils in Scotland at least, could not survive without the life raft which parking fines now provide. "Controlled Parking" has very little to do with easing traffic but a lot to do with providing employment as Parking Attendants, and providing revenue from parking penalties which latter assists our cash strapped councils to keep their heads above water, JUST!
    As always, the motorist is perceived as a soft target by both local and central government.

  • Comment number 79.

    52. At 11:11am on 20 Nov 2010, Chris wrote:

    >This won't affect you if you parking legally!
    >If you break the law you should pay
    It's nothing to do with the law, it's not a crime, its a totally arbitrary civil matter.

    The Bill of Rights 1869 (part of our written constitution) section 12 states 'That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegal and void.

    So our very constitution disallows fines without conviction of a CRIME - not some arbitrary, cynical system of rules decided on by some suit in a snazzy office that never did a useful day's work in their lives wondering how to garner enough cash from the people they are supposed to represent to cover his next expenses jolly.

    Refuse to pay it, fines without conviction are unconstitutional !!!!
    .
    ..........................................
    .
    But the bit you are overlooking is that a parking ticket is actually issued for the convenience of the offender, not the council.

    Your alternative to a parking ticket is a summons to the local magistrates court for a hearing.
    Parking tickets (and speeding tickets) were introduced to give the offender (suspect) the opportunity to admit his guilt and pay a fixed fine without having to attend court.

    It is not in itself a fine and in every case you have the right to ask for a court hearing rather than pay the fine if you feel it was unjust. For well over 95% of people they know they have transgressed and accept the fine as punishment by paying the ticket.

  • Comment number 80.

  • Comment number 81.

    When Local Authroities who have taken on Parking Enforcement start acting lawfully with due regard to discretion and full compliance with the Regulations governing this activity then maybe they may have some grounds for asking for the penalties to be raised BUT until then... on your bikes!
    You only need to look at websites like Pepipoo to understand the level of non compliance all around the country and the number of appeals that are won when taken to Adjudication. The simple fact is that LAs are time and time again acting unlawfully.
    If the current goverment wants to do something usefull then it should be a full review of this parking enforcement fiasco and demand that LAs get their acts in order before allowing them to even consider asking for penalties to increase.

  • Comment number 82.

    No of course it wont. People park anywhere without due thought especially on private land. If of course you parked in their driveway or garden you would probably be subjected to some form of attack.

  • Comment number 83.

    No, councils want to increase revenue and motorists are soft targets. I got clamped in Hackney a few years back parked outside a friends house. It cost me £160 to get the clamp removed. Since then I've had a few parking tickets but never paid them. If somebody knocks on your door tell them you no longer live there, they will then leave you alone.

  • Comment number 84.

    Will increased parking fines cut driving offences?
    WE ALL KNOW WHAT THIS IS ABOUT ££££££££££££££££££££
    Im not proud to be British anymore and hate this island of RIPOFF.!!!

  • Comment number 85.

    Is The British Parking Association a breaking the cartel laws as it is trying to rig the price of fines for fiscal reasons? Should the fine be assessed by a court and not some 'association' or council?

  • Comment number 86.

    At 11:46am on 20 Nov 2010, Sue Doughcoup wrote:
    59. At 11:25am on 20 Nov 2010, England is Ruined wrote:
    Councils will kill the traditional town centres.

    Why would anyone want to cope with traffic congestion, sky high parking charges, pedestrian rage, just to shop in town centres that often don't have what you are looking for after hours of fruitless searching?

    The more thay take parking spaces away and hike parking fees and fines the more people will shop at out of town sites. The parking is plentiful and usually free. With the big supermarkets stocking a vast range of items it is usually possible to do a one stop shop.

    The other major competitor is the internet. For years now I have done most of my non food and household shopping on the internet. It is reliable and usually much cheaper.

    The only reason I now I go into a town centre is to have a look in charity shops, the numbers of which are ever increasing.

    It is false economy for the councils to think they can offset cuts at the expense of the motorist. Shops in town centres are closing down at an alarming rate, thus reducing the amount of business rates councils are receiving.

    Councils need a new formula. Make town centres easy and cheap to park your car. Retailers will see more footfall and increasing sales.

    I for one will keep the internet retailers in business until shopping in towns becomes a pleasurable experiece once again.
    ----------------------------------

    Typical spoilt brat attitude from the people who cause a problem. If I can't use my car cheaply and how I like then I am going to stamp my feet and not live within the limits of our society. Why don't you get public transport, or are you just too wedded to your motor?

    ___________________________________________________________________

    I'll happily reply to the above response to my original comment.

    What public transport!!!!!!!!!!

    My wife and I have bus passes and have tried to use them to get into Wokingham and Reading from where we live.

    The buses are infrequent and unreliable.

    So, why should we brave the weather to have a 15 minute walk to the nearest bus stop, wait for a bus that more than often doesn't turn up, get to a town where people are rude and in your face, even before being confronted with sullen shop assistants and long queues to pay.

    Me - I'll order on line in the comfort of my own home enjoying a nice cup of coffee.

    So - it's nothing to do with being wedded to my car, it's to do with a preferable shopping experience.

  • Comment number 87.

    74. At 12:07pm on 20 Nov 2010, Reclaim_the_country wrote:
    Balance of Probability.
    7 taps on the ENFORCERS keypad AB 99 CDE and the keeper of that vehicle is done for £70.

    False Parking Tickets have been and will continue to be issued.
    .
    ..............................................
    .
    The beauty being, of course that if a ticket is issued to your vehicle but has the wrong registration number you can happily bin it in the knowledge that you are untraceable since a check on PNC or other database based on the registration number on the ticket will come up with either a vehicle other than yours or no vehicle at all.

  • Comment number 88.

    Councils never had it so good - this and the council tax are nothing more than a license to print money.

  • Comment number 89.

    In principal I have no objection to higher parking fines, inconsiderate drivers who park dangerously normally show similar disregard while moving. However, my observation is that the majority of traffic wardens are more interested in the low hanging fruit of otherwise legal drivers who have returned late to a meter or pay and display than in dangerous or obstructively parked vehicles.

  • Comment number 90.

    Any council that trys this will find they are out of a job at the next local election. Parking should be free and resrictions in place only where necessary for safety. Yet again they are trying to fill the piblic coffers at the expense of private sector businesses and individuals. If you want people shopping and helping the local economy stop taxing them it.

  • Comment number 91.

    52. At 11:11am on 20 Nov 2010, Chris wrote:
    >This won't affect you if you parking legally!
    >If you break the law you should pay
    It's nothing to do with the law, it's not a crime, its a totally arbitrary civil matter.

    The Bill of Rights 1869 (part of our written constitution) section 12 states 'That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegal and void.

    So our very constitution disallows fines without conviction of a CRIME - not some arbitrary, cynical system of rules decided on by some suit in a snazzy office that never did a useful day's work in their lives wondering how to garner enough cash from the people they are supposed to represent to cover his next expenses jolly.

    Refuse to pay it, fines without conviction are unconstitutional !!!!

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    You and 36 should read my posting No 28 & 29

  • Comment number 92.

    Local Councils do not deserve more money. They appear to waste the vast sums of money they already take from us.

    Filled with a million jobsworths, every townhall in the country should be stripped down to its bricks and rebuilt, throwing out in the process the volumes of good for nothing, ill-willed malevolent pirates who work in them.

    I don't know what your local council is like but Lambeth has been busted for fruad twice in twenty years, no-one was punished, they all got away with it. Will someone above please remove these corrupted people from our Town Halls?

  • Comment number 93.

    The best way to ensure fines are paid is for local authorities to use the old 'Denver Boot' and thus until the fine is paid in cash or cleared via credit card it doesn't come off...after 24 hours it is impounded in a security park for seven days...no payment - then crush it and jail the owner for up to 6 months...just leaving a ticket doesn't always work...also those who leave pets in the car whilst shopping also need taking to court for cruelty...

  • Comment number 94.

    No wonder the people who issue parking tickets are not so affectionately known as the "parking nazis"! Its a money making racket and ALL motorists should, must, start complaining about this sort thing that is plain undemocratic and WRONG

  • Comment number 95.

    If we had enough car parks and the country wasn't over populated, this problem would not even exist. Its just going to get worse as the councils now see it as a steady form of income for them.
    It's one thing trying to blame motorists for parking in the wrong place but at the end of the day, most people don't just stop wherever they like, they do genuinely get caught out. These fines are ridiculously high for an offence which can in some cases inconvenience nobody at all. Its time for a complete rethink as a proper government, council and police force should be going after people who commit more serious offences than this.

  • Comment number 96.

    >the Bill of Rights Act 1689 gives way to the Road Traffic Acts of...
    You'll find that the Bill specifically precludes it beinf repealed, rather like the Magna Carta - these aren't rights granted by the document, they are inalienable rights that are simply documented there, they cannot be taken away by parliament !!!!

  • Comment number 97.

    Should councils be allowed to increase parking fines?
    Yes.
    Will increased fines deter motorists from committing driving offences?
    No, but after a while it may deter the council, making membership look a bit foolish.
    1. Stiffer penalties may deter payment, which means councils must be prepared to not only raise parking fees, but follow with increased administration & enforcement to collect the fees.
    2. Stiffer penalties may mean more people challengining the parking ticket in the court. It may be a long line. Be prepared.
    Would such a move unfairly penalize drivers?
    No, illegal parking is illegal parking. If you don't like it change the law.

  • Comment number 98.

    Wont affect me, in over 40 years of motoring I've never had a parking ticket. Thats probably because I dont break the parking rules and I'm quite capable of walking from a car park to shops etc. It will only affect you if you break the rules and there's no point in complaining about your own mistakes.

  • Comment number 99.

    Will increased parking fines cut driving offences?

    I can't see why, but they might just cut parking offences.




  • Comment number 100.

    Here in Canterbury a few years ago it was £400 to park in the city centre if you are a resident, try working nights and avoid parking during the day for a cheaper rate. There is nowhere to park for free apart from out of town superstores. if the coumcils charged everyone with a car that much they would have enough cash to lower council tax or put up councillors allowances or to create a few non jobs.

 

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