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Do you back the government's migration cap?

09:42 UK time, Tuesday, 23 November 2010

The government is to cap the number of non-EU skilled migrants allowed into the UK at about 43,000 next year, down 13% on 2009. What's your reaction to the cap?

The cap has been a divisive issue for the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition government and has raised concerns among the business community.

Curbing the number skilled worked will only partly allow the government to reach its immigration target. Home affairs select committee chairman and Labour MP, Keith Vaz said he did not believe the cap would work as there would be so many exemptions.

Will the cap harm British competitiveness? Are you a migrant to the UK? Are you a business owner employing skilled migrants?

This debate is now closed. Thank you for your comments.

Comments

Page 1 of 8

  • Comment number 1.

    The words stable, horse, door and bolt spring to mind.
    There is nothing wrong with bringing people into the country who have skills in short supply to fill specific jobs (i.e. no PhDs working for McBurger).
    The problem is we have millions (best guess no one knows for sure how many it is!!!!) here who shouldn't be and who have no skills that aren't found in those born here. The focus should be on kicking those out who shouldn't be here.

  • Comment number 2.

    immigration in total needs to be capped. Such immigration was designed to offer spare jobs to people outside this country. This is not the situation and we have a workforce who dont need the additional competition.

  • Comment number 3.

    No, I do not.

    We do not need a cap on non-EU migrants as they're not the real problem.
    The real problem is the unlimited flow of migrants from EU countries as well as the fact that certain of our EU neighbours are more than happy to give EU citizenship to non-EU citizens who then automatically gain the right of free movement within Europe.

  • Comment number 4.

    Do you back the government's migration cap? No. The cap should be ZERO. We have mass unemployment, we have a housing crisis and public services cannot cope with the people already here, so why do we need more people?

  • Comment number 5.

    Is this what they call a Eureka moment?

    For how many years have we not had an exit count?

    How many cities have sham colleges, situated next to cash trade businesses, immigration lawyers and money transfer companies?

    Of course those already outstaying their visas will now claim human rights because they now have a life here.





  • Comment number 6.

    Economically there is no need for any non-skilled workers to be allowed into the country. We have enough uneducated of our own to fill job vaccancies for the non-skilled. How many more supermarket shelf stackers, garbage collectors & factory workers etc do we have to import from overseas?

  • Comment number 7.

    It would be preferable if the immigration cap also applied to EU citizens, but as that is hardly going to happen the load on our overstretched social, housing and health care services will remain.

  • Comment number 8.

    Oh dear, too little too late from this failure of a coalition, like Labour before them it appears the Lib-Dems have pressured the Conservatives into a mere reduction of entrants rather than a total ban. We have enough coming in from Europe thanks to Labour with no available jobs, or at least none that are available to our own countrymen, why are they so keen to let in even more?

  • Comment number 9.

    Most of this will relate to foreign students. They bring in the big money for the universities, and with the cuts the unis have already been suffering, it's a really, really bad idea. Especially because most of the students leave anyway after their studies!

    And how does this work for skilled workers? If they can't find a British worker (there's a shortage of social workers, for instance), they won't be able to take on a non-EU worker when the cap's been reached?

    Sutcliffe is right, it will be very bad for business and science. Sometimes the best science guy is abroad. "Making do" with a second-rate one doesn't work in scientific jobs.

    Verdict: not very well thought through. But that's British governments for you.

  • Comment number 10.

    This is still not addressing the problem.

    The issue isn't how many people come into this country, but how many we are ensuring leave this country.

    Skilled workers who come here with a job are net payers, adding revenue to our system through taxation and purchases. Even unskilled workers who come here with a job are net payers. And non-EU students pay a lot of money to be allowed to study here. They are NOT the problem.

    The issue that needs to be dealt with is how to usher these people out after their university/college course has ended or their work is finished. At this point they become net benficiaries and that is what we are trying to avoid.

    So let's not choke off our research and development, or our universities and learning centres, but instead put in place a system that allows us to remove the lead-swingers and benfit-hounds before they do economic damage.

  • Comment number 11.

    Top line Yes
    Specifics
    1. No
    2. No
    3. No
    We area small overcrowded island, what is wrong with training the resident population?

  • Comment number 12.

    We shall see if it is actuallyy imposed or left with so many holes that it is meaningless.

    More important than the stemming of immigration is the problem of tackling cultural differences with some of the immigrants. This is not a question of numbers but a question of reconciling the kind of differences that are apparently heading towards a serious crisis, despite the BBC's attempt to play them down or moderate expressed concern out of existence.

    Last night's (unreported??) Panorama programme indicated serious cultural differences between educational institutions which adhere to the teachings of the religion of peace and other cultural groups, Christians, Jews, and the gay community. Bury the subject if you must, appease potential troublemakers, but sooner or later it must be resolved.

    One thing is clear: extreme right wing multiculturalists who are trying to consign muslim immigrants to the 7th century are doing no favours to the British population or the immigrants themselves. These right wing extreme multiculturalists should be exposed, and their role in education, the universities and schools, the law, local government and the media should be marginalised. They do not hold the moral high ground and are condemning thousands of immigrants to a highly questionable status as potential terrorists. Governments have pandered to these totalitarians and it is time we stood up to them. It is likely that the BBC will remain one of the last bastions of right wing extreme multiculturalism, but I urge all who have an interest in a peaceful future society to ditch it in favour of an enlightened multiracial
    alternative.

  • Comment number 13.

    It is difficult to understand Immigration.. I have seen Immigration on Work Permit from Indian Sub Continent. I have seen People with No qualification who applied as carer or Beuatician have been allowed wth thier Dependant.Some of these People have also been allowed settlement Right.We never get Right Information but Numbers.i.e. 50000 does not make
    any sence.Within this Numbers there are people who should not have been
    allowed with their depandance.
    Shah

  • Comment number 14.

    I work in IT and for me the most important issue is intra company transfers. Companies where I've worked in the past have somehow used this to bring in whole teams of people from India to replace local workers. And lets be absolutely clear. It's all about price. Not skills. When you hear bosses whinging that they just can find the skills in the UK, they simply mean they can't find the skills at a price they'd like to pay. Without straying too far off topic, it's clear to me that recruitment in IT is broken. Lying agents, clueless HR and utterly bizzare interviews mean it's always a surprise to me that anyone ever gets a job. Companies love ICTs because they can more easily exploit workers who fear being sent home. They can externalise much of the social costs of employment, which is great for them but less good for the taxpayer. And the people chucked out of work? The taxpayer picks up the tab there too. I'm also a bit cynical about the minimum salary for ICTs (of 40k). I'll bet that that figure can include all sorts of bogus 'expenses'. I've got no problem with outsourcing, because I know how difficult it is, and I have no problem with genuine skilled migrants. I just have no time for greedy, exploitative, antisocial companies.

  • Comment number 15.

    As I add my contribution to the debate all preceding entries are awaiting moderation. However, I have every confidence that my fellow contributors will be whole-heartedly confident that this measure will solve Britain's immigration problems whilst making sure that all non-Brits in the UK will only be here to fill any temporarily fill any skills shortages that we may have.

  • Comment number 16.

    There shouldn't be a cap outside the EU but should be within the UK. Most outside the EU come to the UK to work but within the EU many come just to draw benefits.
    There needs to be a cap on immigration from Pakistan. There appears to be loopholes where many come to the UK without any problem. Also commonwealth countries should not get any special benefits. Instead of cappng immigration there should be more stringent checks to confirm the applicants are truthful in their applications

  • Comment number 17.

    "
    6. At 10:57am on 23 Nov 2010, GeoffLiberty wrote:

    Economically there is no need for any non-skilled workers to be allowed into the country. We have enough uneducated of our own to fill job vaccancies for the non-skilled. How many more supermarket shelf stackers, garbage collectors & factory workers etc do we have to import from overseas?
    "

    We don't need too many skilled people either from outside. There are plenty of skilled people without jobs.

  • Comment number 18.

    Its a start...

  • Comment number 19.

    Just exactly how will this be monitored - given that NewLieMore had absolutely no idea on numbers coming to, and leaving, the UK?

    Let's face it, the UK borders are so wide-open they look like the US prairies! Coupled with successive "governments'" abject surrender to the Greater European Empire, the UK has no effective borders!

  • Comment number 20.

    This sounds all very well but will be of little importance if Cameron gets his way and Turkey joins the EU, within a few weeks of gaining office he went to Turkey to back their membership bid. Talk about opening the floodgates. The Tory donors always want cheap labour and the party must keep them happy at all costs

  • Comment number 21.

    To No. 6, most of your comment is correct but do bear in mind that many of the uneducated unemployed are also unemployable and never will be. Would you employ someone who did not turn up for work, was high on drink or drugs and or violent?

    It is also fact that skilled non EU workers are needed in the UK and business leaders have said this. A Canadian woman who ran Canada Post is now in charge of Royal Mail. At least she has experience of the postal service unlike the former CEO.

  • Comment number 22.

    I agree with General_Jack_Ripper:
    There has been masses of debate and posturing from politicians about immigration, but all they have a say over is non-EU immigrants - a small fraction of the total, so what they say is generally irrelevant (actually, that goes for a lot of what out politicians say at any time!).
    I would also like to know what would happen if I, as a British (and EU) citizen, turned up in (say) Germany, and demanded that the state provide me with housing, money to live on, etc, all funded by the German taxpayer.
    Would I get preferential treatment, and a place in the queue for everything ahead of any native-born Germans? I suspect not!
    Can anybody else see this problem?
    Or am I just going to be shouted down as a racist by the left (as usual)??

  • Comment number 23.

    Are you a migrant to the UK? Are you a business owner employing migrants? Asks the BBC fair questions - but a third question the beeb should ask is - are you a British born skilled worker whose job is under threat from low paid immigrant workers?

    No businessmen will pay more than he has to employ staff. Only the naive can be unaware that businessmen are replacing English workers with skilled immigrant labour. It happened to me – one Monday morning 4 new technicians were employed and the existing team of 4 was asked to show them the ropes. On Friday all 4 members of my team were made redundant with "compromise agreements" and escorted from the building.

    All 4 of our replacements were from Africa – they were so new to our country and its ways that they were embarrassingly open about how much they were being paid which was about 60% of our wages.

    It might make people who idealistically support multiculturalism and think there is a racist under every bed unhappy - but the simple truth is migrants are taking skilled English workers jobs.

  • Comment number 24.

    Do you back the government's migration cap?
    Never has been, never wiil be.
    Did you notice the cap is on skilled, not unskilled Labour.
    That's just what industry wants, a large,ever growing pool of cheap labour.
    They keep down wage demands and industrial unrest.
    Only the poor working class will suffer from immigration
    The Southern rich will have a constant supply of cheap cleaners and Nannys.

  • Comment number 25.

    This doesn't go far enough. We cannot afford unskilled Labour to enter the country in their thousands. Services are not coping at the moment, let alone coping with thousands more coming in and having to service these people. We need to throw out those who don't work or are of criminal nature. I am sick to death of pandering to those who have a hard luck story such as "I will be put to death if I go back to my own country". As for the EU, we should get out now !

  • Comment number 26.

    Another loony policy that will hit good, hardworking migrants and contract workers and do nothing to rid us of the lazy and feckless rabble who scrounage off the state!

  • Comment number 27.

    "
    13. At 11:10am on 23 Nov 2010, Manilal Shah wrote:

    It is difficult to understand Immigration.. I have seen Immigration on Work Permit from Indian Sub Continent. I have seen People with No qualification who applied as carer or Beuatician have been allowed wth thier Dependant.Some of these People have also been allowed settlement Right.We never get Right Information but Numbers.i.e. 50000 does not make
    any sence.Within this Numbers there are people who should not have been
    allowed with their depandance.
    Shah
    "

    Because the last Government allowed it to happen. The system was broken before nu-labour arrived, they just made it worse, far worst. They did nothing to stop it.

  • Comment number 28.

    This country is overcrowded to an extent where our infrastructure just cannot cope. As such ALL migration to this country MUST cease.

    Having said that, the result will be a serious skills gap in our workforce.

    This country has many UK citizens with degrees who are totally useless with an appallingly bad work ethos. We also have people without formal degrees but have no training to do the useful jobs. The skills that the UK's apprenticeship system generates is dangerously bad.

    This country must resolve its skills shortage and poor work ethos record and not rely on cheap overseas labour to cover up the cracks.

  • Comment number 29.

    "
    15. At 11:18am on 23 Nov 2010, Christopher Styles wrote:

    As I add my contribution to the debate all preceding entries are awaiting moderation. However, I have every confidence that my fellow contributors will be whole-heartedly confident that this measure will solve Britain's immigration problems whilst making sure that all non-Brits in the UK will only be here to fill any temporarily fill any skills shortages that we may have.
    "

    lol!

  • Comment number 30.

    What part of "overcrowded island" don't the liberal lefties understand?

  • Comment number 31.

    WHY THE CAP??...........the more the merrier. Open the door wide and let them in. There are jobs to be done, NHS, Local Authorities, Care Service for Elderlies, Militaries...yes, we are short of manpower, though we've been advertising for ages now. Some local people turn up their noses at our pay rate or just plain lazy. We employ more foreigners now than Brits who are to used to benefit culture and can't be bothered to graft for their living.

  • Comment number 32.

    Since we joined the EU, we have no right to control our own borders. There is an obvious solution, though: leave the EU..

    Anyone want independence?

  • Comment number 33.

    No one ever complains about the Australians that seem to work in every single bar in London. Do Australians possess special bar keeping skills that can't be found here?

  • Comment number 34.

    It means nothing without halting EU immigration.

    This is just a distraction to make us believe immigration is being controlled, when there's a backdoor into this country that we can do nothing about due to the Labour disaster agreeing to open borders in the EU.

    Anyway, it's too late. Under Labour the country's character was destroyed and has been transformed into a nondescript entity. A mish-mash of people that were supposed to give us a utopian "melting pot" and diversity - instead we've got more tensions and pockets of third world ghettos.

  • Comment number 35.

    No.

    Free movement of labour, capital and goods benefits us all.

    However, we should not the same benefits to immigrants as we pay to our people, and that conflicts with European law, then we should change it--or ignore it.

    Separately, we have to secure the border, which means dealing with overstays. When I travel to Australia, I fill in an entry card AND an exit card. On one occasion, I ended up with a duplicate visa and so it looked like I had not left the country on the prior visa. Easy to fix, but at least they KNEW.

    In the UK, once you're in, no one has any idea. Before I signed up to IRIS, my passport wasn't even stamped or scanned. "Yep. Looks like you. In you go." And there I can stay. For ever. Ridiculous.

    Biggest laugh is those huge signs in LHR reading "UK Border." Ha ha ha!

  • Comment number 36.

    No doubt there will be a lot of Southern Irish coming into the UK soon. Are we going to prevent them from coming? If not, why are we bothering about the rest of the world?

    We need TALENTED people, wherever they come from. Our home-grown lot of comprehensive school failures is a sorry crowd destined to go on the dole because that's the model their family has given them.

  • Comment number 37.

    We recently had a letter from a company in the far east wanting to buy our company (UK based) - their letter essentially said they had clients who wanted to use the labour migration rules to come to the UK, so were buying companies in the UK specifically to sponsor immigrants.

    quote: "We represent many immigration agencies throughout China and Thailand who have clients wanting to migrate to the UK under the business migration scheme.... We do not charge commissions or fees to venodrs as we are paid by the purchasers' agent as apart of the immigration process"

    We weren't selling our business, but I wouldn't be surprised if they've contacted other businesses who did sell, especially in this economic climate.

    So, non-EU immigration does need tightening up on. EU migration is potentially a bigger issue, but it's also a lot harder to do something about, so while that may be a longer term problem, it also needs a longer term solution. There's nothing wrong with doing the easy fixes first.

    (PS - getting hold of anyone in the UK immigration department who shows any sign of caring about this has proved impossible, so although we'd like to report this loophole, it doesn't seem that we can)

  • Comment number 38.

    Okay let's try and get in here before all the reactionary nutters. Some simple points.
    1. Most studies admit that immigration has a net economic benefit to the UK. Even migration watch's own report previously attributes an albiet weak net economic benefit from migration.
    2. The UK has always prospered on the basis of migration and a general global outlook, the social 'geology' of our nation historically is one of continual waves of migration(move over Celts, Saxons, Vikings, Normans etc.), whilst our moment of greatest prosperity was based on global outreach (and okay a bit of ruthless domination).
    3. That said economic growth is not the only god worth worshiping. It is getting crowded, but only of course in certain areas of our island, which is a testimony to the contiued failure of successive governmenets to try and achieve more 'geographically-balanced' growth (regional economic policy anyone?).
    4. Personally, whilst I'm a bit woolly-liberal on immigration matters, the need for some levels of control is pretty undeniable and in particular controls are needed to encourage more productive forms of immigration.
    5. BUT, much as I hated new labours' record in this area (gutless & two-faced), there was some merit in the notion of a points-based system that genuinely tried to sort out the wheat from the chaff. A crude numbers-based target that simply defines worth on the basis of the thickness of one's pay packet (40K) is pretty blunt and hopeless. I can't claim to speak for all the employers out there, but I'm guessing that the skilled individuals that are often required do not command 40K exec. pay packets. Highly skilled technicians and scientists often in fact get paid significantly less.
    5. As to the likely slashing of foreign studnet numbers, that really is going to accelerate the trajectory of the UK's HE sector towards the bottom of the class, decimating incomes that have already been hammered and diverting world-class talent to other shores. If you think that doesn't matter, or you can live without it, then you are a parochial bumpkin. Yes there are areas of abuse, but as with many areas of coalition policy, this seems to amount to "the patient has a sore toe: well then chop of its leg". Policy as formulated by butchers.

  • Comment number 39.

    Why do Governments act on issues years late, when a problem reaches critical mass but has been blinding obvious for ages to anyone with half an eye on society.
    Its a small start. Its probably just a sound bite and if as successful as all previous policies and pronouncements on the issue will make no difference at all. All stand as Grand Britannia sinks under the weight of mass migration from around the world.

  • Comment number 40.

    1. At 10:47am on 23 Nov 2010, Mike from Brum wrote:
    The words stable, horse, door and bolt spring to mind.
    There is nothing wrong with bringing people into the country who have skills in short supply to fill specific jobs (i.e. no PhDs working for McBurger).
    The problem is we have millions (best guess no one knows for sure how many it is!!!!) here who shouldn't be and who have no skills that aren't found in those born here. The focus should be on kicking those out who shouldn't be here.


    Hear hear.

  • Comment number 41.

    It needs to be set for EU and non-EU alike. What is the point in letting all these people in when there aren't even enough jobs going for the people that already live here?

    But yes, of course just let the "skilled" workers in who can then get a minimum wage job and bring their spouse and 6 kids over and claim £30k a year in benefits. Why not....

  • Comment number 42.

    Nowhere near enough, in my view. The UK is already severely overpopulated.

    This country, until lately so keen to get everyone through university, surely must have grown enough organic talent and skills not to need the help of foreigners, particularly in the really useful media and midwifery industry?

    Is the belief that we must still import those with apparently higher educational standards an admission that the degrees obtained in-house are really no better than Mickey Mouse ones?

  • Comment number 43.

    Capping legal migration is no more than a gesture - and should be seen as such.

    If the government is serious about controlling immigration, it needs to deal with the following issues:

    1) People entering the country illegally.

    2) The ineffectiveness or Borders and Immigration Department to control illegal immigration and to repatriate illegal immigrants (which must number over a million!)

    3) Uncontrolled immigration from the EU.

    4) In certain EU countries, such as Greece, the easiest way of getting rid of illegal immigrants is to given them a passport. This gives the illegal immigrants free movement within the EU, including easy access to the UK, the right to free treatment on the NHS, free education, and welfare benefits.

    All of the above are bigger issues than capping legal immigration.




  • Comment number 44.

    Having off-shored computer support, exporting jobs to the 3rd world, companies are now bringing those off-shore staff to this country, to work for 3rd world wages.

  • Comment number 45.

    What a pity we don't have a decent workforce of our own, but comprehensive education and the "rights, rights, rights" brigade combined with too many benefits ruined any chance of that.

    Bring in the educated foreigners to run the country - they might improve the shambles Slave Labour and the Tories created over half a century!

  • Comment number 46.

    Whilst the government seem to have the right general idea, they are most definitely chewing on the wrong end of the stick !
    One of our biggest, most persistent ongoing problems is that our education systems are no longer turning out the high - skill engineers and scientists that we need. The sciences - chemistry, physics, biology - and maths have all been downgraded in our schools, the sciences no longer available as individual subjects. University science departments are being closed or downgraded. We just do not have the high skill levels we need if we are going to expand the national economy.
    On the other hand, if we examine the areas and segments of our cities and social structures where immigration is deemed to be 'problematic', we find that 'high skill' high performance, high earning individuals are noticeably 'thin on the ground'.
    The rationale, the reasoning behind the governments approach is more than a little difficult to fathom out, perhaps they need to explain a little more lucidly.

  • Comment number 47.

    Not enough! Need to reduce further down a lot. How about 5000 or so?
    This country is a small island, can't cope up with uncontrolled immigration. If first we control Non-EU migrants, than we can put a curb on students, intra-company transfers, and EU flow.

    We all have seen the decline in NHS service, schools, transport services, etc. because of free flow of immigration and population growth.

  • Comment number 48.

    Sadly anything the current government do is far too little and too late. The mess was left by the previous incumbents.

    What odes need sorting is the 'student' loophole which is just being used for illegal immigration. This needs stopping and restarting with the appropriate safeguards.

    Until the human rights legislation is removed or bypassed we will never be able to curb immigration.

  • Comment number 49.

    At 11:33am on 23 Nov 2010, Upemall wrote:
    Another loony policy that will hit good, hardworking migrants and contract workers and do nothing to rid us of the lazy and feckless rabble who scrounage off the state!
    =======================================
    What kind of rubbish is this?
    Perhaps if the unemployed had more opportunities (i.e. fewer jobs taken unecessarily by non-EU migrants) then there would be more motivation/incentive to succeed?
    How do you propose to "rid us" of these people by the way?

  • Comment number 50.

    14. At 11:18am on 23 Nov 2010, CarlRigby wrote:

    "I work in IT and for me the most important issue is intra company transfers."

    - agree absolutely Carl. I work in the IT sector as well and have seen outsourcing contracts to India which management considered a cost saving exercise. Except, it does not save costs, since senior managers invariably don't understand anything about IT. It is much better to have 10 expensive IT contractors who know what they are doing, than 100 much cheaper Indian wage slaves, who don't have a clue. IT is not about numbers of programmers spewing out spaghetti code, it is a knowledge based industry.

  • Comment number 51.

    21. At 11:28am on 23 Nov 2010, Lynn from Sussex wrote:
    "To No. 6, most of your comment is correct but do bear in mind that many of the uneducated unemployed are also unemployable and never will be. Would you employ someone who did not turn up for work, was high on drink or drugs and or violent?"

    Shall we just exterminate them then?

  • Comment number 52.

    I had no idea that anywhere near that many unskilled workers were coming in from outside the EU!

    What do we need them for?

    We have more than enough unskilled people supported by hard working tax-payers, what the hell do all these incoming workers all do? Over 40K is hardly a cap and I find it hard to believe the immigration office is able to keep tabs on all of them to prevent them disappearing into the multi-cultured overcrowded already higher illegal abyss that is the UK population.

  • Comment number 53.

    No, I do not.

    We do not need a cap on non-EU migrants as they're not the real problem.
    The real problem is the unlimited flow of migrants from EU countries as well as the fact that certain of our EU neighbours are more than happy to give EU citizenship to non-EU citizens who then automatically gain the right of free movement within Europe-------------



    Actually the truth that UKIP dare not speak is that migration from the UK to the rest of Europe and to the UK from Europe is pretty much in balance. Until 2000 there was a clear net emigration from the UK numbering around 1 million over the previous decade.

    There is a higher proportion of retirees leaving and those in early adulthood arriving.

    By any normal interpretation this is beneficial for an economy as in general the demands from retired on public services are higher and tax revenues lower.

  • Comment number 54.

    The cap is arbitary, a rocket launcher to kill a mosquito. No-one I've ever met minds about Indian scientists or South African financiers entering the UK, the problem is uneducated, Western hating Islamic extremists, who come and refuse to integrate setting up ghettos of deprivation and tension. To my mind the UK has enough people already who don't work, can't work, or are only intelligent enough to sweep roads THESE are the immigrants we need to stop coming in - those who take up resources but give nothing back. We NEED more qualified specialists in their field from WHATEVER country they may come from. We need an immigration policy that is based on OUR needs as a country not THEIRS.

  • Comment number 55.

    Just a couple of points.
    The tories didn't want a zero cap - they wanted a 25% reduction, while as I understand it a 13% reduction has been agreed. (The LibDems opposed a cap in their manifesto, but as we've seen the LibDems will buckle to most things for their fingernail on power. I suppose 13% is a rough mid-point so maybe I'm doing them a disservice on this one)
    Intra company transfers will be exempt, provided it applies to employees earning over £40,000.
    University students will be exempt.
    If Turkey join the EU, or anyone else for that matter, they will be outside the free movement of labour programme.
    If any of this factually wrong apologies, but I did get it from the Today programme.
    As for will the cap harm competitiveness, I can't see it working anyway.

  • Comment number 56.

    Dominic asks: "Do Australians possess special bar keeping skills that can't be found here?"

    Yes. They're friendly.

  • Comment number 57.

    113% instead of 13% would be better.

  • Comment number 58.

    . At 11:38am on 23 Nov 2010, MellorSJ wrote:
    No.

    Free movement of labour, capital and goods benefits us all.
    ====================================
    No it doesnt benefit all.
    The Public and private sector need to have pressure applied to employ local skilled workers (and more importantly trainees and apprentices). Allowing them to recruit wholesale from cheap non-EU countries is destroying our future prospects.

  • Comment number 59.

    52. At 11:56am on 23 Nov 2010, Leella wrote:
    "I had no idea that anywhere near that many unskilled workers were coming in from outside the EU!"

    I think the question is actually about skilled migrants. :-)

  • Comment number 60.

    Some ugly words on HYS these days....

    Looks like the economic downturn is really stirring up right-wing feeling as per all the theories...

    Why cant people see this is all that is happening to them? The country is a bit poor at the moment, and we're all worried about our money and security and future.... but it WILL come back round, its cyclical...No need to start looking for a scapegoat - the poor old immigrant as usual.

    People need to wise-up to the fact that the media are driving them like a car... time of boom, the media is ramming programs about buying and selling houses down our throats, so the housing boom happens which has basically screwed us up. Now, due to the resultant recession its the immigration that caused the problem... not that fact that the banks have robbed us of all our money.

    IMMIGRATION IS JUST A DISTRACTION FOLKS - THE REAL PROBLEM IS IN THE CITY AND WESTMINSTER!!

  • Comment number 61.

    If they want to stop people taking jobs that could be done by people in this country then maybe what they should look at is legislation which prevents outsourcing. Far too many jobs have been outsourced abroad resulting in redundancies

  • Comment number 62.

    The real issue of my concern is related to Student Visas. Not only am I a migrant, but I am a teacher of Economics in an independent sixth form college. The vast majority of students are non-EU nationals.

    For the coalition to meet its targets it would need to cut student numbers by 50% with particular focus on non-Degree awarding programs and students with low English skills attending English language training.

    In periods of poor economic growth, one would think that the coalition would be highlighting one of UK's major exports. International students pay up to 25000 a year in fees and much more on living expenses, and regularly fill shopping malls and high streets across the UK. Given that the pound has weakened over the past 2 years, the UK is finally competitive as compared to Australia, Canada and the US.

    The proposed Student regulations will not only stifle growth in a sector which is actually beating the recessions, it is also putting to risk the jobs of thousands of teachers and staff across the UK and ancillary support services such as tours and residences.

    The problem that the government faces is of enforcing immigration regulations. These policies are an admittance that the UKBA cannot enforce the already rigid immigration and entry laws. Perhaps more focus showed be paid there than on denting demand in a sector which is actually growing.

  • Comment number 63.

    Recommend post 3.

    I can understand why certain skilled workers from EU and non-EU countries might be needed. I cannot see why any unskilled workers are needed at all.

    As the NHS is also not allowed to test an EU worker for their ability to understand English (and probably this is applicable to English workers going to other EU countries) this too needs sorting out.

    Tony and Gordon, whatever did you sign us up to without letting us have a say - afraid of the outcome, I suppose?







  • Comment number 64.

    Sutcliffe is right, it will be very bad for business and science. Sometimes the best science guy is abroad. "Making do" with a second-rate one doesn't work in scientific jobs.

    Verdict: not very well thought through. But that's British governments for you.

    ===================================================================

    The problem is that this recession has hit many professionals - job centres can't cope with this. I know many unemployed scientists, but we keep taking people from overseas to fill positions. I think if you can get a first class degree, an MSc and a PhD to become a scientist in a given field - you are probably well able to cope with training yourself to do work in a related field - after all, it's what you do at that level every time you change jobs!!!

    I don't think this cap goes far enough. Our own professionals are perfectly able to fill most of these higher jobs - IT positions are apparently under attack now from non-EU immigrants. As for the less well paid jobs (I think someone mentioned shelf-stackers etc above) I thought this government had decided that everyone in this country would be forced to work - so why do we need new entrants to fill these jobs?

    As for immigration itself - watch Border Force. All these people rounding illegals up, only for them to be released within hours and abscond. The system badly needs strengthened.

    I think the country has enough problems during this recession without being responsibe for even more people. I'm sure if an immigrant could do a certain job, it would be possible to train an unemployed person to do it to.

  • Comment number 65.

    44. At 11:47am on 23 Nov 2010, danensis wrote:
    Having off-shored computer support, exporting jobs to the 3rd world, companies are now bringing those off-shore staff to this country, to work for 3rd world wages.

    -----------------------------------------------

    No... you are wrong... the companies are moving here to employ BRITISH people because WE now earn 3rd world wages.

    People like you who still think we're a superpower and India are the third world make me laugh.... delusional.

  • Comment number 66.

    I really could not care less, what I wonder about is why so many people wish to live in the UK at all.

  • Comment number 67.

    Yes I support it, we are full and it should be extended.

  • Comment number 68.

    They should worry about skilled workers leaving the country, something that is unavoidable if things carry on as they are... another bad decision.

  • Comment number 69.

    I'm probably going to get shot down for this, but here goes:

    I don't think there should be a cap at all. BUT people should only be allowed to come here IF they have a job lined up (or maybe they could have a 1 month looking for work visa or something).
    That way we won't get thousands of workers coming in aall looking for jobs, but companies will still get the best person.

    Call me crazy- but for actual skilled jobs (brain surgeons etc) I would rather have the best person in the world than the best person who was born in Britain.

    If the best brain surgeon in the world is offered a job in britain, but they can't get it because they are the 43,001th person wanting to come to the country.

    Also: does this rule apply to Permier League footballers? Will we have a one-in, one- out rule?

  • Comment number 70.

    Myself and many of my work colleages who are highly qaulified engineers are being laid off from the large engineering companies and are being replaced by so called engineers from india, the far east, and south america. They are being placed at a lot lower salary, but the companies are still out charging the full cost to the client. So they are again increasing there profits!
    So i say No to any imports until we have our own unemployment down and british school leavers should be trained for these positions and NOT out sourced for a instant work force of a lower standard.

  • Comment number 71.

    TOO LITTLE - TOO LATE!

    Really sums up my feelings, would be more impressed if they put forward a coherent plan for removing those who are here illegally!

  • Comment number 72.

    How many of the people who appear to hate any form of immigration on here have a friend or relative who is working abroad??

    Why do British people think its fine for them to say, work in America, yet when somebody wants to work here it's exploitation.

    Personally, I CANT WAIT for things to get so bad here that its British people desperate to work in Poland (which WILL happen mark my words)and for the very same people whingeing on here to experience their own brand of ill-conceived, nationalistic racism.

  • Comment number 73.

    Far too little, far too late. There should be zero immigration into this country from non-EU nations, other than family visits, which should be very strictly managed.
    If employment vacancies cannot be filled by British workers and/or EU citizens then there really is something wrong!
    With recent revelations about Roma gypsies (and the revelation today about Illie Schian), we cannot possibly afford to support such parasites.
    Immigration controls are a national disgrace. We are an island, it should be easy enough to manage!!!!!

  • Comment number 74.

    The IT market is saturated with non-EU people, principally from India. Many are outsourced from Indian companies and end up working for short periods in the UK BUT once they are here, they bring over their families, settle their children in school & stay for good!

    There are 1000s of IT graduates in this country. We do not need to import IT skills from other countries. This is one of the avenues of permanent entry to the UK that has been relatively unexplored.

    Unless the Government is clever enough to explore the loopholes that immigrants use to get into this country, the legislation will be useless.

  • Comment number 75.

    We need to police employment properly to ensure those importing people to work under quasi slavery are stopped.

    This is not just in agriculture.

  • Comment number 76.

    The problem isn't immigration but the government's (and governments over the last 30 years) lack of willingness to support the manufacturing industry. The government wants to keep the pound strong for the financial and tourism sectors, but this damages the export industry. Much of the skilled sector now resides in construction. Though I agree that this does need protection for British workers, this current proposal will do nothing to stop the predominantly EU skilled workers.

    Moral of the story? Go and work in the financial sector and think about number one, because the government won't do anything to rock that boat.

  • Comment number 77.

    72. At 12:16pm on 23 Nov 2010, Ben Skinner wrote:
    How many of the people who appear to hate any form of immigration on here have a friend or relative who is working abroad??

    Why do British people think its fine for them to say, work in America, yet when somebody wants to work here it's exploitation.

    Personally, I CANT WAIT for things to get so bad here that its British people desperate to work in Poland (which WILL happen mark my words)and for the very same people whingeing on here to experience their own brand of ill-conceived, nationalistic racism.

    ============================================================

    Most Brits won't get jobs in Poland because they won't be able to speak the language. English is a language taught in most countries, so easier for people to come here.

    I'm sure you won't mind the ever-growing benefits bill, though.

    I'm not sure it is that easy for Brits to get jobs abroad unless those positions are not easily filled from anyone within that country first - they generally need exceptional skills - similarly, I do not think preventing skilled workers from coming to the UK is particularly helpful.

    But what a very unpleasant post - "I can't wait for things to get so bad here...." Careful what you wish for - you may not be able to get out.



  • Comment number 78.

    It's not enough, the figures should be falling not rising, we are full up and risk social meltdown under the pressure on Non EU migrants who share very little of our culture or ambitions.

    All foreign 'Students' below Degree level should be knocked back immediately as its an open door to illegal entry to the UK, and is very rarely genuine 'tuition'.

    Finally the 'marry me' bring my whole family over' rules need to be stopped. It was never the intention that abritish passport holder can marry someone and all their family qualify as 'dependent's - restrict it to children of the marriage only.

    We risk losing our country to an alien culture forever (see Fiji) if don't make massive restrictions now. NB: Immigrants don't integrate when there is a flood tide coming in ....

  • Comment number 79.

    We don't want limits, or quotas or caps. 43K extra migrants is 43K too many. If the principle of allowing migrants into this country is wrong based on the disastrous impact they've had on the social fabric of Britain is wrong then it should be halted completely and preferably steps taken to actively reverse it. And just because someone from half way round the world has an above average IQ shouldn't be a right of passage to settle here. What about the training those born here to perform those roles without recruiting from outside? What about those UK citizens born here who struggle to find opportunities? What about the calamitous effects of decades of migration on our culture and way of life? Enough is enough and it's time we all stood up and said no more.

  • Comment number 80.

    The only problem with the cap is that it is set so high,with unemployment as high as it is we shouldn't be letting any one in.
    #72
    Why don't you move to Bosnia or Croatia,you want to see racism at work,you are the classic spineless socialist that has bought Britain to the brink of bankruptcy,through massive government over spending,and giving money to people who are to lazy to go out and earn it.

  • Comment number 81.

    56. At 11:59am on 23 Nov 2010, MellorSJ wrote:
    Dominic asks: "Do Australians possess special bar keeping skills that can't be found here?"

    Yes. They're friendly.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I've some sympathy with that. I've walked into an otherwise empty pub and stood at the bar waiting for 2 staff to finish their conversation. After five minutes I'm joined by a second customer. After a further 5 minutes one of the staff finally turns to us and says "Who's next?".

    That's in a rural setting too.

  • Comment number 82.

    Why does it take us so long to learn, our offspring countries like Ausralia and New Zealand have controlled immigration by quota's for years, we should close the doors and pull up the draw bridge, we should have a one way door, outwards, for immigrants, no immigragion for asylum, no immigragion for students, they should leave as soon as their education is finished and no immigration for jobs unless they can qulify for jobs that require high qualifications that we do not have at home. start training our unemployed first. I hear all this nonsense about the indiginous population being unable to cook Indian food or serve at resteraunt tables. garbage.

    First step is to expell all illegals now.

  • Comment number 83.

    Surprise,surprise, how did I know lip flapper Cameron would do a U turn?
    Because he's a politician and they always go back on their word once they've got your vote. We should have a nil immigration policy, we should be telling the EU to get on their bike, we don't want any more unskilled law breakers in Britain. And where are all the skilled jobs that we can't fill? People in high places make money out of lax immigration policies, finger in the pie, you know how it is (remember that labour legal woman employing an illegal), pretend you want to change things, make all the right noises but break every rule in the book yourself. Britain has had enough of the mealy mouthed politicians that do nowt that the populace want them to do, the clocks ticking.

  • Comment number 84.

    Oh dear - is this the old "Immigrants stole my job!" shocker?

    I've got news for you - jobs cannot be stolen. They can be offered to more deserving individuals, with a better work ethic. If you are seeing jobs you would like, going to others then I suggest the problem lies a bit closer to home.

  • Comment number 85.

    We should become an unwelcoming country APART from skilled workers. We shouldn't be focussed on them.

    Student numbers should be controlled and all courses harshly vetted. There should be no staying on after a course. They should go home and apply for jobs from there. No exceptions!

    There should be one appeal and one only on any cases of immigration. We should employ people in roles managing immigration and we should change every law we can to become fair but harsh. We should never again be an easy option and we should not be making easy money for a fleet of lawyers.

    We should make the process of becoming 'British' take longer and be harder before people are granted full status and can receive full benefits and healthcare etc. You must have to want to be 'British' and go through some pains to prove it. It should take years.

    Arranged marriage should be discouraged and there should be no welcome for the family of those who marry their way into British citizenship. None at all. You come here is one thing, the rest of your family, sorry no. In fact why should it be assumed that if a foreigner marries a Brit that even that person should be granted citizenship???? Love can't be trusted in this situation any more, the abuse is legion and obvious.

    Europe expanded to the weaker countries was always a disaster waiting to happen. Europe can only sustain so many such countries. We should use the current weakness of the European dream to negotiate completely new terms on the 'free movement of population' so that we don't simply have to embrace all and sundry without benefit to us. We should still control our borders.

    The same applies to the Human Rights laws. Where they prevent us from removing those who do not belong here in a fair but effective manner then those specific facets of the law should be changed. Realistically most of the population of old Europe would support that approach.

    We need to make it harder for employers to take short term migrant workers rather than investing in the training and development of local workforces. We would not need migrant workers if we did not allow our own to rot as we have for the last twenty years. It is simple, we tax firms for employing migrant workers and heavily.

    We have to commit to this. It is neither racist and nor is it wrong. We can still offer Asylum but even that needs to be micro managed to remove the corruption and misuse. We need to employ people to deliver. We need to be willing to annoy Europe, out Universities, our employers and anyone else who stands in our way.

    We have to deliver a realistic Britain with a sustainable population and a cultural mix that can get on well together not spiral into conflict and who knows what. That will take sustained will and courage. The Government up to now are sadly lacking in both.

  • Comment number 86.

    It is an undeniable fact that our Economy cannot support high levels of immigration be it skilled or non - skilled it should be ZERO.

    This is not racist but how on earth, can it be right to have any immigration at all - When we are living beyond our means and are carrying horrendous levels of debt - have ever increasing levels of unemployment - and a continuing decimation of our industries.

  • Comment number 87.

    Its a worry, our company is american we exchange people all the time between here and the states it could mean they leave the uk and move everything to france if we can't exchange people..

  • Comment number 88.

    Pinprick compared to those already here and those freely allowed from the EU. Better than nothing but not very much.

  • Comment number 89.

    At 12:25pm on 23 Nov 2010, luskentyre wrote:
    Oh dear - is this the old "Immigrants stole my job!" shocker?

    I've got news for you - jobs cannot be stolen. They can be offered to more deserving individuals, with a better work ethic. If you are seeing jobs you would like, going to others then I suggest the problem lies a bit closer to home.
    ===================================
    I work for a high-tech firm that prefer to recruit cheap experienced staff from India, rather than train up local students. What do you suggest the students do????

  • Comment number 90.

    I think there should be a cap but like everyone knows its the EU thats the problem. However as an aside I think in some cases there is an issue of some companies who will endeavour to bring skilled people over into roles in the UK, rather than invest in skilled people in this country who could do the job with a just a little training.

    Companies no longer want to train people up. The fact is that If you are already skilled in the general area of work you can quickly pick up skills to do a more specific role in that area.

  • Comment number 91.

    What migration cap???

    They're pouring into this country by the million.

  • Comment number 92.

    The problem isn't with non-EU immigration, those immigrants are already subject to some of the toughest regulations in the world, on par with Australia's systems. 80% of immigration comes from within the EU and, with the exception of two very small countries, is unregulated!! This is merely a "look we are doing something" annoucement which will not tackle the problem. ALL immigration needs regulating regardless of where they are coming from. Don't try and fob us off with this policy, tackle the real problem, the EU. Soon vast numbers of Irish immigrants will be arriving looking for work, there simply are not the jobs to go around. Shut the doors until we can work out who is here, where they have come from and get a picture of the scale of the mess. An open border policy is putting too much of a strain on our services. You could cut immigration over night by making it mandatory to speak fluent English before you arrive, not expect us to use our tax money to teach you.

  • Comment number 93.

    82. At 12:24pm on 23 Nov 2010, EUR1P wrote:
    (...) no immigragion for students, they should leave as soon as their education is finished

    ********************************************************************

    My uni course involved a year "working in the industry", are you saying that international sutdents should have to 'go home' to do that? Considering we still had assignments which we HAD to deliver back to te uni, seems a tad harsh.
    What happens to those who were offered the chance to return to their job- should they be forced to refuse over someone else who may not be as good and has no experience of the role? Incidentally, one of my international friends impressed his placement company so much they actually CREATED a job for him post uni- he's not taking anyone elses job then is he?!

  • Comment number 94.

    A lot of low wage immigrants are servicing the farming and agricultural sector.

    Farmers should be forced to pay for the healthcare and welfare costs of all non-uk labour.

  • Comment number 95.

    Eddy from Waring writes: "I've some sympathy with that. I've walked into an otherwise empty pub and stood at the bar waiting for 2 staff to finish their conversation. After five minutes I'm joined by a second customer. After a further 5 minutes one of the staff finally turns to us and says "Who's next?"."

    ARGH!

    I was in a long line at the local Cop when the sole checkout lady was joined by a second--who held long conversation as the queue got longer and longer. I was sufficiently annoyed that I resolved to talk to the manager. As I got a bit closer though, it became clear that the second person WAS the manager.

    ARGH!

  • Comment number 96.

    49. At 11:52am on 23 Nov 2010, sixpackerL wrote:
    At 11:33am on 23 Nov 2010, Upemall wrote:
    Another loony policy that will hit good, hardworking migrants and contract workers and do nothing to rid us of the lazy and feckless rabble who scrounage off the state!
    =======================================
    What kind of rubbish is this?
    Perhaps if the unemployed had more opportunities (i.e. fewer jobs taken unecessarily by non-EU migrants) then there would be more motivation/incentive to succeed?
    How do you propose to "rid us" of these people by the way
    _____________________________________________________________
    _____________________________________________________________

    There are plenty of opportunities around-that's what immigrants prove day after day. Look back a few years to when impoverished Asians arrived from Africa, their savings held by corrupt black politicians.. Before long, they were starting small business and running shops, the very shops that now provide services to us and compete with supermarkets.

    Sixpack, you chose your name well. You're one of the feckless, it's easy to see that!

  • Comment number 97.

    frankiecrisp writes: "Its a worry, our company is american we exchange people all the time between here and the states it could mean they leave the uk and move everything to france if we can't exchange people.."

    Inter-company transfers are exempted.

  • Comment number 98.

    One "industry" that needs to be overhauled, with regard to the employment of non-EU immigrants is the NHS.

    British universities turn out medical graduates who then cannot find a job because hospitals offer jobs with lower wages to immigrants. The same happens with nurses; there are many British nurses who cannot find a job yet for lower wages, these jobs are taken by immigrants.

    As a frequent hospital patient, my personal opinion is that the competence of some immigrant doctors and nurses is often quite nebulous, that is, if one can understand what they are saying in the first place. How can there be a competent exchange of information between medical practitioner and patient if neither fully understands what the other is even saying?

  • Comment number 99.

    77. At 12:22pm on 23 Nov 2010, ruffled_feathers wrote:
    72. At 12:16pm on 23 Nov 2010, Ben Skinner wrote:
    How many of the people who appear to hate any form of immigration on here have a friend or relative who is working abroad??

    Why do British people think its fine for them to say, work in America, yet when somebody wants to work here it's exploitation.

    Personally, I CANT WAIT for things to get so bad here that its British people desperate to work in Poland (which WILL happen mark my words)and for the very same people whingeing on here to experience their own brand of ill-conceived, nationalistic racism.

    ============================================================

    Most Brits won't get jobs in Poland because they won't be able to speak the language. English is a language taught in most countries, so easier for people to come here.

    I'm sure you won't mind the ever-growing benefits bill, though.

    I'm not sure it is that easy for Brits to get jobs abroad unless those positions are not easily filled from anyone within that country first - they generally need exceptional skills - similarly, I do not think preventing skilled workers from coming to the UK is particularly helpful.

    But what a very unpleasant post - "I can't wait for things to get so bad here...." Careful what you wish for - you may not be able to get out.

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    You dont need to be able to speak Polish to pick fruit and dig ditches.

    And dont worry about me "getting out" as you call it.... like the majority of immigrants, I dont see countries as real boundaries and I will go wherever I need to to ensure my family has enough to eat.

    That, after all is going on here.... families trying to make ends meet. Im sure the majority of them would prefer to live at home, in their own culture and without self-rightous British people critisising them...but unfortunatley for them, the best opportunity for making money is here right now.

    I dont think its right to criticise people for wanting the best for their families. What do you expect them to do? Starve?

  • Comment number 100.

    It seems to me the problem with immigration is not those coming here for a job but all the family and relatives that follow them into the country!- you know the uncles and aunties, the grandparents and cousins, the brothers and sisters - one gets a job here and fifty relatives sneak in six months later! ;-)

 

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