The listeners
I read the message board religiously, as do my colleagues, and often, when I do, I think of
"The Listeners" - a poem by Walter de la Mare. The relevant lines go as follows:
'Is there anybody there?' said the Traveller,
Knocking on the moonlit door;
And his horse in the silence champ'd the grasses
Of the forest's ferny floor:
And a bird flew up out of the turret,
Above the Traveller's head:
And he smote upon the door again a second time;
'Is there anybody there?' he said.
But no one descended to the Traveller;
No head from the leaf-fringed sill
Lean'd over and look'd into his grey eyes,
Where he stood perplex'd and still.
But only a host of phantom listeners
That dwelt in the lone house then
Stood listening in the quiet of the moonlight
To that voice from the world of men....."
If our viewers are the traveller I realise, with guilt, we must seem like the host of phantom listeners with two deaf ears. So this week I wanted to offer reassurance: - we do listen; we do read; we do celebrate when we get it right; we do worry if we feel we've got it wrong. We're not perfect but we are as passionate as our viewers about the gardening programme we make.
With that in mind we do try to react if we feel the majority of viewers have the same concern. We have upgraded our cameras to high definition to improve the quality of our pictures; we have reduced music on our Berryfields items; we have started to film more detailed close ups after comments that it was sometimes hard to follow what the presenters were doing.
Sometimes in television, production techniques are necessary. Believe me, there are junctions and sequences that are improved by background music; there are times when a moving camera will capture far more than a static; there are people who adore Joe's allotment; there are people who want us to cover vegetable growing. We know everyone is different and we can't please everybody all of the time. But rest assured - however silent we seem, we are listening and we'll keep on doing so because at the end of the day we absolutely appreciate the importance of "that voice from the world of men."
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~27~RS~)
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That's very good that you listen to THE message board, but do you realise how many gardeners there are out there who participate with others via a computer who reguard the BBC message board as a bit of a laughing stock? If that is THE only message board you take any notice of, you are all very narrow minded. BBC or not, perhaps you should look over your own garden fence now and then at the real world.
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I LOVE Gardeners' World. However, tonight Toby showed the making of a cloche (just use a staple gun for the plastic covering) and when his completed cloche was shown being installed it not only had two extra purlins to support the plastic but also unmentioned were wooden battens all around the base to cover the staples and firmly hold the plastic to the frame. This is really unfair and unreasonable simplification - your's may last but people who follow your explicit instructions will have cloches that are much more poorly made and will probably fail over windy winters!
I realise that TV is TV (and all you really want are happy punters), but this was really dishonest. I expect better from the BBC!!! Especially from Gardeners' World.
This is definitely a drop in standards. Why? - please explain yourselves.
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I love a lot about GW but what I don't like is the Jamie Oliver -style of talking to someone off-camera at Joe's allotment.
I do want to know what he's doing there but please just give us a straight to camera or at least let us see who he's talking to like when he's chatting to the other allotmenteers.
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As one of the nations keen and active gardeners I feel I must send in a few comments about the latest Gardeners world programmes.
I am incensed that the top job of main presenter was not given to Carol Klein.
She is consistantly enthusiastic and knowledgable and should have been the obvious replacement for Monty Don - who was one of the best presenters we have ever had. Instead we are stuck with Toby Buckland , who is not only patronising to the listeners , but also to his co - presenters.
I realise it would be fair to give the man a chance before offering critisism , but up to now he is showing no improvement.
Like many other people I would not hesitate to defect if any other producer had the foresight to put forward a new garden programme with Carol Klein as its leader !
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re aphilips
Toby did advise to put batons over the stapled edges.
Pay more attention, before leaving comments, clothears.
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Well, its MacDonalds prices for Ramsay food isn't it, complaining about GW does seem a tad churlish to me. That said, I eat for free, we don't even have the license fee here in Ireland :)
I'm enjoying GW, the presenters, topics, and all of the effort that goes into the subtle production very much. I'm not a big gardener and my efforts are modest, but I always get ideas from it, and I always get relaxed by it. Toby is doing a fine job filling some very big boots, even if he seems to be set on renaming the programme to Gardener's Weld. I'm impressed with the easy depth of knowledge that he, Carol, Alys and Joe all have, and the relaxed way that they impart it.
Thanks, and keep it up,
Ray
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Personally, I don't care what other forums and media may have to say about GW and its message boards. The BBC boards are where keen and concerned GW viewers come to comment whther they be fans or critics or otherwise engaged with the programme past and present.
I have to wonder why it has taken so long for the production team to respond to the years of comments and complaints about poor camera work and excessive background music in recent series of GW. You don't need the latest camera technology to take good shots but you do need to be focussed on the action. GW viewers are there to learn about gardening and do not need the distraction of extraneous music to understand or appreciate what is on view no matter how clever or awful the chosen piece may be.
I too feel the cloche piece was disingenuous. If you don't want to give more air time to each individual process in making the cloche, or any other useful item, at least point out the extras such as those struts for strength and the importance of stretching the plastic properly.
It would be nice to feel the production team thinks their audience has a brain. Other than the old chap's tips on onion planting last week, the comfrey transplanting was the first piece of useful info from Joe's allotment since he started. Now can we go a step further and dispense with the off camera person for Joe to talk to and let him talk to us directly.
More of Carol on propagation and more of Alys too but please can we have fewer items covered in greater depth and not so much flitting. I'm sure the vast majority of the GW audience has an attention span greater than you seem to believe.
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Re Chester Hunts comment above
"Pay more attention, before leaving comments, clothears."
Surely clochears?
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I resisted that comment Venus.
However, I can't resist this. It's time the production team had a look at how some people view recent developments in GW - http://sea-of-immeasurable-gravy.blogspot.com/2008/10/mutt-and-jeffs-awfully-big-adventure.html
There are several such items relating to GW on this blog and all very instructive.
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I cant understand the comments about the making of the cloche. Its not blue Peter, sureley you have the gumption to take on board the basic making and add the extra bit yourselves. Some of us have done these things ourselves but its always good to see it on tv even if we only pick up the odd tip. I think GW is very good and am pleased with all the useful info given out, altho I have been gardening for 54 yrs I still learn how to make it easier. Keep up the good work
amjo
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Mention of disingenous cloche pieces reminds me of Cameo's 'Word Up' video from the 80's. Entirely extraneous it was too.
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Amjo - after 54 years of gardening I'd expect you to understand the basics of cloche use and construction but GW is also watched by complete beginners and relatively novice gardeners seeking enlightenment and who need and deserve a bit more consideration in how such things are explained and filmed.
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If you can't suss the extra bits on the cloche on the tv perhaps you shouldn't be using power tools!
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Actually Obelix - on reading that link the stuff comes over as an affectionate 'tribute' not as a stick to beat the production team with!
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Rosie
I'm sure the person who commissioned "Ice Road Truckers" (narrated by that acrylic cardigan wearing bloke who played editor George Dent on "Drop The Dead Donkey") on the other publicly funded Channel 4 shown at 8.30pm Friday earlier this year couldn't possibly have imagined it would smash Gardeners' World ratings. But as sure as eggs is eggs it did!
Then we have equally few viewers responses on your blog mainly by non-licence paying viewers resident in Eire and Belgium.
Many of the Beeb messageboarders seem to think they have spelt out the show's shortcomings in black and white (and indeed a number seem to want it broadcast not in HD but in black & white!) but think they have had short shrift.
Is it not approaching the time that the GW production team simply said "Stuff the lot of you - we know what's best", dropped the GW Dead Donkey and commissioned a programme about ice road trucking?
Incidentally "Drop The Dead Donkey's" working title was "Dead Belgians Don't Count".
MT
PS: Can you also please point out to the rabid messageboarders that GW has never been cancelled due to the much quoted "football" since (I seem to recall) the 1982 World Cup?
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Hi Venus - I did post on the Beeb that I enjoyed the tribute but that doesn't prevent me picking holes if I feel something wasn't done as well it should have been.
Nor, MT, do I see that viewing and posting from Belgium or anywhere else makes my views less valid than anyone else's. I am British, I'm a keen gardener, a faithful viewer of GW since 1983 and I get my BBC broadcasts through legitimate licensed distributors. Why should my comments, whether praise or criticism, count for any less than yours?
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it sounds as if you are doing your best I think the prog is great you will never please everyone but its good to know that you do listen to the viewers.Toby and all the team are doing a good job. The allotment bits hvent really been of much value but all in all I still enjoy watching. i wld like more of Carol tho.
amjo
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Reading through these posts it seems to me that you can keep some of the people happy some of the time but not everyone all of the time. In this blog it appears tha nay's have it. Perhaps rather than complain so much we could be constructive.
If the problem is not enough of Carol, not enough detail and education by the various presenters slots. The answer may be not enough time or money to make a comprehensive programme.
Having had a programme made about my work in development by the BBC many years ago I appreciate that production is expensive and takes a long time to complete. However, GW is the flagship of gardening programmes and surely deserves more recognition and funding. Increased funding can be justified by the rapid rise in gardeners in the UK, as well as complaints on this site. More funding may well lead to a longer programme where the presenters could have appropriate time to display their skills and knowledge. They may even have time to to show us one they planted earlier (just can't resist the Blue Peter analogy). Wake up you mandarins of the BBC the UK gardeners are revolting.
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Just another opinion.... I really like Alys Fowler - I like her knowledge and her gentle manner. Toby Buckland's 'know-it-all' comment about her shows him to have an inferiority complex - I hope he grows out of it. I had seen him on other features previously and liked him but his manner on GW is, as another blogger said, patronising and I find his bon-homie forced. What appeals about Alys is that she is allowed to quietly let her own personality come through. Perhaps if Toby was under no pressure to be smiley and gay he might come over as the quiet man of gardening Rosie Edwards described. Otherwise I think the programme strikes a careful balance between those thirsty for more and more detailed knowledge and those who just want to know what to do at a particular point in the gardening year. Toby's Heath Robinson efforts lead to comparisons with Geoff Hamilton - not fair on the new boy. I also agree with those who think the camera too mobile. Flower lovers want to linger over the beauty, savour the exquisite charms of that little gem. Yes we want the scan of the garden too but we're not the flashcard generation. And finally why so many repeats in the gardening year? We get all excited about the long borders and when they're in bloom we get an hour of something completely different. Then we get it again at Christmas time.
Feel so much better having got that off my chest - and it's free! Gardening is such good therapy.
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Hi All- I'm new at this- but have been trying for a while to find a medium with which to ask the team or anyone who may read this comment, for some advice.
I'm a 29yr old frustrated gardener- I am currently head gardener on a small private estate- or actually only gardener, since they cut down on staff- I have RHS advanced qualifications and am terribly frustrated!
I love design and would love to take this further- My other passion is sharing my love of gardening, the ups and the downs, failiures and victories. I have therefore followed your programme with the ambition that some day I could go into presenting or something of the like- I'm not niave and know this is something to work to- but I have no idea where to start and generally those professionals I have contacted have been trully unhelpfull and if anything dismissive.
I would be gratefull for any advice of any kind- am at wits end- as no one seems to want to be of any help at all, thanks for your time Reagrds CharlieBloom
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Oh and another quick question- is the gardener of year competition running again??? Had a good look on internet and seems is now gardener of decade?
I'd love to enter something like this! seems a bit unfair that those who have already had the opportunity to win such a competition get even more potencial limelight- anyway that's just my frustration showing again.
Thanks CharlieBloom
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I have watched Gardeners World for many years. My interest and enthusiasm for gardening increased as my children grew and were less dependent on me. This coincided with Geoff Hamilton's time as presenter. He always inspired me with his gardening advice and easy manner. So much so that I wanted to rush out into my garden immediately and put his advice into practise. I have used this feeling as a yardstick for future presenters and whilst I still felt it with Alan Titchmarsh it began to wain when Monty Don appeared on the scene.
When he left I eagerly awaited news of the new presenter and was disappointed it wasn't Carol Klein, but was willing to give the new boy a chance. I was desperately hoping that the BBC would look afresh at the format that has been adopted for shows over the last few years. I even hoped they would look again at the Geoff Hamilton programmes where the advice and format is as relevant today as it was then.
I feel Joe Swift - who is a garden designer has little to offer. What is the use of growing a carrot seed in a bit of drain pipe to people who want to learn the technique of growing vegetables to provide for their family?
The first episode talked about growing in pots using multipurpose compost. It even suggested growing a blueberry this way. A good idea since most people do not have soil that is acidic enough. However, no mention was made of the need to use ericaceous compost.
All three of the programmes shown so far have been disjointed and lacking in continuity. Apart from Carol Klein's spot there is little in the programme that makes me feel like leaving my armchair for the garden. To top it all the BBC is affording the program the same importance it has for the last couple of years - namely to pull it off at short notice for sport. I think that says it all!
Finally,I hope someone will take note of the following:
No! we don't need slots about gnomes
No! we don't need to know what the presenters thing is hot or not!
What we do need is a factual programme that gives timely week by week advice about flowers/fruit/vegetables when and how to plant and also grow from seed. The various techniques employed, the different soil requirements and how to deal with pests. Hang on I am getting a Geoff Hamilton feeling coming over me!
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