Should Christian immigrants to UK have priority?
The former Archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Carey says that the UK should give priority to immigrants who are commited to "our values".
He says this is likely to mean they come from historically Christian countries. He says if immigration goes on at the level it is we are going to be "in trouble".
A cross-party group of MPs called the Balanced Migration Group wants cuts in immigration. Lord Carey says the current rate of arrivals is angering many British people and he supports a bias in favour of Christian immigrants. What do you think?
Is Britain a predominantly Christian country and should people coming into the UK fit in with its religious way of life?
Read more on BBC News MPs urge '70m population cap' in party manifestos
UPDATE - You can listen to Lord Carey talking to Nicky about his views on immigration below
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Anybody get the feeling that the BBC doesn't want to deal with this subject, after they do the intro, the travel news, the weather news, the sport news, more intro, more intro, they have managed to get a couple of callers in and those they have selected to speak on behalf of asylum seekers, bashing Christianity, claiming we are all immigrants!
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Lord Carey's call that prosprective Christian immigrants should be prioritised seems to be something of a freudian slip. I suspect he has at last realised that competing religions in close proximity inevitably leads to conflict and the general detriment of society.
James McKenna, Belfast.
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Carey's long missed the boat. The time to have spoken up if he wanted to protect Christianity in this land from other faiths was back in the Fifties. Of course, the vast majority these days has no faith at all.
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How about only allowing in those of a secular, rational disposition? Religion seems to only result in intolerance and division.
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If it walks like the BNP, and talks like the BNP, it must be the BNP. Welcome aboard Dr. Carey and co., it took you long enough to wise up to the situation.
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I laughed when I heard the 'academic' pronounce immigrants and the indigenous population all share the same values. Where has this woman been living for the past 10 years??
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Lord Carey is too late in coming out finally with his comments as this country is fast becoming 'un christian' in every respect.
The Church has encouraged unchallenged the millions of immigrants arriving into Britain, the vast majority of whom are not Christian, and whose religions have more prominence placed on them by our government than any other religion.
But, better late than never!
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Well, no, Jack, it's not 'better late than never'.
Since we cannot now remove millions of non-Christians from this country or convert them and since the vast majority of Brits with a Christian heritage have no Christian faith these days, Dr Carey is pointlessly stirring up divisions.
There is a strong case for promoting to all people living here our core values of freedom, democracy, the rule of law and equality before the law - these must be non-negotiable and that's about it.
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Immigration balance is about not feeling a threat from what we notice on our doorstep in our local community, be it colour, religion or other cultural beliefs and behaviours. Any large influx of one group in any particular community will create upheaval, the question is can this be planned in a better way and if there is a limit how do you manage that. It is therefore ridiculous for one religious sect to try to hijack the debate and personally i find it insulting for them to try to hijack my British cultural values to promote the idea of a ´god´.
As has already been noted, the values of Freedom, Democracy, equality before law and i would add freedom of speach (even if you dont like it) are our true values..Religion supports NON of these, in fact the reverse
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Sorry Teresa but I don't share the optimism in your final paragraph. Hoping to impose democratic values on those who effectively belong to the equivalent of our middle ages is a futile aspiration. Such people actually believe their religious myth while we became collectively sceptical about ours long ago.
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Wholeheartedly agree with you James. Still it's nice to see (Archbishop) Carey getting involved and starting this debate, at least he considers the peoples of this country should determine the way this country goes, unlike the existing (druid) at Canterbury, who seems to put all other faiths and peoples ahead of his own flock.
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James and Paul - I wouldn't say my final para was optimistic at all - just a statement of the values we have evolved here over time and which are what is truly central to our culture.
My main point is that - as far as maintaining the pre-eminence of Christianity in this country - the horse has already bolted. We have 2 million or so citizens who hold non-Christian beliefs and many millions more who have no faith at all [what's the weekly attendance at Christian places of worship these days - does it even break the million mark?] So how is prioritising immigration from people with a Christian background going to change society in any significant way? That's before one's even considered the damage such a policy would do in unnecessarily upsetting and alienating those of a non-Christian background already established here.
I'd also add that the Catholic [and Christian] Irish weren't made very welcome when they came in significant numbers 50 years ago. Funny how they seem OK now to the likes of Carey by comparison with newer migrants.
Hard to know really, what Carey's actual aim is.
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I missed the moan-in because I was shovelling snow. However, if you ask me (which I'm sure you don't as I am far too un-PC), Labours immigration policy of cram-'em-all-in-regardless means that no immigrants should have priority, the door should be shut and bolted and all those here illegally turfed out so we can get the bills down, the crime down, the over-crowding down...
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lord carey has a history of being antoganistic to islam, he was at it in the 1990's soon after the end of the cold war. in fact he pretty much set out the agenda of what is happening politically now in europe and our imposition of our 'values' on a reluctant mid east.
what he is suggesting is preferential entry into the uk to a certain people, those who are culturally christian because we allegedly have a greater commonality than with of other faiths.
it was not so long ago that some were advocating the cultural supremacy of the aryan race and the lack of commonality between the 'indigenous' peoples and jewish immigrant.
really careys comments should be viewed as what they truly represent.
im reminded of the saying putting lipstick on a pig .. its still a pig.
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"Hard to know really, what Carey's actual aim is"
if you have followed his pronouncements that have been reported from time to time, you will find as a christian fundamentalist he loathes islam and views islam as the greatest threat to his particular brand of christianity.
at the present time the political environment is being directed in a direction that he has always favoured.
what is curious he talks about values, but it was christianity that evolved fascism, it was the christian beleifs of bush the led to gauntanomo and shock and awe, it was the evangelical zeal of blair that allowed for bagram, abu ghraib and torture.
the anglican church in africa is at odds with the uk with respect to homosexuals, the place of women . they are not culturally closer to what carey is claiming. but then he isnt directing his immigration policy towards that part of his flock.
i suppose as chrsitianity has failed the west even carey feels he has to scapegoat islam and muslims to recruit new adherents.
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Immigration should be based on the need for a particular skill. We should welcome those who satisfy that need whether Christian, Muslim, Jew or of no faith. The moment we start basing it on religion then there is a danger other criteria will soon follow e.g. skin colour, sexual orienation, people with long hair etc. Carey should stick to saving souls instead of playing to the Daily Mail reading gallery.
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Whoever said "if it talks like BNP and walks like BNP" please check your facts and get a clue. The BNP is a racist organisation while this issue is not about race. There are millios of non-white Christians in the world, and indeed many African Christians already emigrated here.
But the problem is not that of non-christian immigrants who together form less than 10% of the population. The problem is that most people lost their interest in religion long ago for variety of reasons. If I were Lord Carey I would ask why that happened and try to understand people losing their interest in their faith.
Also, note that many people agreeing with Mr Carey don't give a damn about Christianity and haven't set foot in a church in years. If you want something done about this then take a long hard look at yourselves first.
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"Immigration should be based on the need for a particular skill. "
Indeed - but ideally we'd still teach those skills to our own people, resulting in no skills shortage, no need for immigration (which clearly annoys many people and causes resentment and division) and no feckless, directionless youth, either. Still, if there's such a shortage of skills and labour, how come there are so many unemployed and the "economically inactive" total is pushing eight million?
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Just because a 'conservative thinking' former Archbishop like Carey makes a very predictable populist comment about curbing immigration, albeit giving Christian immigrants priority entry, was it really necessary for 5 Live to jump on the bandwagon and run it as a phone-in issue knowing full well that all his comments will ultimately achieve is to galvanise the ardent racist in the hope it will allure them into the church!
Running these things as phone-ins inevitably foments xenophobia rather than encouraging an objective discussion about immigration and population control.
Immigration and migration is a global issue and not unique to the UK!It's not the fact that the UK population might rise to 70million that worries the likes of Carey and all his right wing cohorts in the military and economic world whose comments occasionally monopolise the news simply on account of who they are. What they are genuinely concerned about is their failed economic market ideology which will be elucidated even more by a rise in population of migrants or the indigenous population.
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Lord Carey has a point up to a point. These islands are of a finite size and are already becoming overcrowded.
Labour policy of allowing mass immigration from other ethnic and religious groups may have seemed like a good idea in the rarefied atmosphere of government think tanks, but in reality as population pressure grows, especially as we now have the added threats from Islamic extremists, there is the real risk of civil unrest if nothing is done to stop the influx of people onto these islands who have historically alien religious and cultural values.
I found it offensive and naive for people to say that the south east may be overcrowded but there is space in Wales for example. For goodness sake what do these people want, us all to be living in overcrowded ghettos where those from the third world bring third world values with them with regards to respect for environmental cleanliness, family size, law and order.
Yes I do fear for my grandchildren. I fear there will be another major war fought on religious grounds for territory and resources.
If politicians want to do something for this planet they will support responsible reproduction and monitor population growth far more closely. As for illegal immigration, a blind eye has been turned by far too many for far too long. How can anybody know how many people are really living in the UK when nobody knows how many people are here illegally!
As for religion, which incorporates a degree of brainwashing, it should have no place in politics, which hopefully deals with reality.
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"Also, note that many people agreeing with Mr Carey don't give a damn about Christianity and haven't set foot in a church in years. If you want something done about this then take a long hard look at yourselves first."
nicky was keen to take it down the anti islam angle.
"Running these things as phone-ins inevitably foments xenophobia rather than encouraging an objective discussion about immigration and population control."
they know what theyre doing.
"Lord Carey has a point up to a point. These islands are of a finite size and are already becoming overcrowded."
70% of habitable land is uninhabitd.
"especially as we now have the added threats from Islamic extremists, there is the real risk of civil unrest if nothing is done to stop the influx of people onto these islands who have historically alien religious and cultural values."
islam and muslims have been here for at least a thousand years, did you feel the same about the usa funding irish extremists ?
"Yes I do fear for my grandchildren. I fear there will be another major war fought on religious grounds for territory and resources."
ermm what do you think iraq and afghansitan is about if not resources and enslavement of the people.
"As for religion, which incorporates a degree of brainwashing, it should have no place in politics, which hopefully deals with reality."
the queen parliament etc are all entwined with the church in the uk ..
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Just because it's deemed "populist" doesn't mean it's wrong. Ask just why it's popular in the first place...
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Ref 20 above by Super-Trouper
1. 'Lord Carey has a point up to a point'!
Impossible. He either makes a point or he doesn't!
2. 'These islands are of finite size and are already becoming overcrowded'
Wrong! It's the very unplanned nature of the capitalist economic system which concentrates immigrants and the indiginous population into particular areas of a country creating the illusion of overcrowding! Plus many indiginous Brits leave the UK and become immigrants elsewhere.
3. 'Labour policy of allowing mass immigration of other ethnic and religious groups......'
'Mass immigration' of ethnic and religious groups has taken place for centuries throughout the globe. If the globe wasn't divided into countries the word 'immigration' wouldn't exist! On a domestic front both Tory and Labour governments have both encouraged immigration. In fact who was the first main advocateur in the 50's? Enoch Powell later Lord Enoch Powell.
4.'There is a real risk of civil unrest if nothing is done to stop the influx of people onto these islands who have historically alien religious and cultural values'!
Well even if that was the case which it isn't, why would a small minority of those from other parts of the world be historically alien to us. Could it be down to the fact that we invade and occupy their lands for their economic resources?
5. 'Yes I do fear for my grandchildren! I fear another war will be fought on religious grounds for territory and resources'!
Half right! All wars are fought for territory and resources but not on religious grounds. As you correctly conclude in your last paragraph religion is what the warmongering parasites rely on to brainwash the masses who fight on their behalf!
If you fear for your grandchildren you'd campaign for a global socialist system (not to be confused with the former USSR) which abolishes countries and arbitrary political borders who are all in blind competition with each other for resources!
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The vast majority of our population is sick and tired of the immigration beltway into the UK. This is mainly from Pakistan and Bangladesh and the Muslim hinterland.
This vast majority also include value added immigrants from all countries.
How come?
Because their children's education is suffering at school by being made interpreters for the immigrant children that cannot speak English, much as their parents cannot.
Why is this government doing this?
We have listened to bbc interviews with Crudass and Wilass (sic)-(Tweedledum and Tweedledee)for months now and been horrified at their arrogance and total absence of any sense of responsibility or accountability for their inaction and incompetence.
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It seems to me that so few people are aware these days that the UK and America were built on Biblical values. As secularism has now become the norm and with that, Mammon is now our god, we find ourselves in a miasma of ideas and opinions all of which lead to chaos.
From my understanding of what Lord Carey was saying, we really ought to remember what our countrys' values were based on....democracy, free speech,etc, and yes, insist that if anyone wants to come and live in the UK they must abide by and respect our laws, culture and democracy. If these people want to practise their religions and cultures ofcourse they are entitled to, but not to impose them onto the laws and culture of the host country. That is what we are succumbing to now and if we stay silent now in the name of "political correctness" we will find in 20 years or perhaps even less, that our children and grandchildren will be living in a brutal nightmare.
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Cassandrina:
'The vast majority of people ARE (whose your interpreter?) sick and tired of the immigration beltway into the UK'!
Are they? How do you know that the vast majority of people are not sick and tired of consensus politics and economics between the mainstream parties and just blame immigrants because its the easiest way to sound off for the sake of sounding off!
Anyway what's wrong with kids in mixed 'race' schools learning each others language hence eventually disposing the need for interpreters?
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"Anyway what's wrong with kids in mixed 'race' schools learning each others language hence eventually disposing the need for interpreters? "
If we all spoke one common language without privilege or exceptions then there would doubtless be less tension and community discohesion. Constantly emphasising cultural and other differences on the grounds that we must all conform to diverse multiculturalism seems to be only entrenching views and creating division and tension between different communities. Now, if we were all just one community...
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