The PM tells us why the Aghan war goes on
The Prime Minister will be making a speech about Britain's strategy in Afghanistan at 9 o'clock. Earlier this week, five soldiers were shot dead by a Afghan policeman they were training - the incident has once again led to calls for British troops to get out of country.
That was the subject of the phone-in on Wednesday, and today we want your reaction to what Gordon Brown says. He's expected to emphasise the importance of the mission - "We can not, must not and will not walk away."
Is he right? What do you want to hear from the Prime Minister? Text us on 85058, or email breakfast@bbc.co.uk. You also post comments here and on our Facebook page. The phone lines will open at 8.30.
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I actually don't feel I need to hear this speech as it has been quite heavily trailed by Downing Street. In a week where we hear Gordon pronouncing on X Factor, I think it underlines how this PM tries to be all things to all people and fails miserably at all of it. His pontificating lecture style of delivery, having abysmally failed the You Tube test, immediately makes me want to turn him off.
On this subject however, we all have to listen. This is because he will never admit defeat even though it has been staring him and Obama in the face. So our soldiers face death in helping Afghanistan become a civilised country. John Reid as Defence Minister said he hoped our troops would leave the country without firing a single shot. Instead we have the very people they have tried to help blowing them up and shooting them, all this to help a country become civilised!!
Could someone find out how many innocent Afghan children and villagers are also killed and maimed by these mines and bombs? We never hear about local casualties.
A leader like Karzai is still in power, corrupt and re-enthroned because the US and UK have no political will to stand up to him and get rid of him, because it does not look good in their home polls.
The gut-wrenching story of Olaf Schmidt and the five killed by the Afghan policeman this week brings tears to my eyes. I do not believe Brown has the backing of the country over this mess and yet there seems no way out but to carry on, with more deaths and maiming of our soldiers. Could I suggest he breaks the habit of the government ministers and ask the bereft families of those who died this week if he could intrude on their grief and meet the plane when the bodies of their loved ones are returned to the UK? See how he likes raw grief.
He will be hypocrytically standing at the Cenotaph on Sunday looking sad, but probably thinking what a shame whoever was going to be chucked out of X Factor later in the day. I hate the man and wish we had integrity and bravery in a leader instead of a mawkish example of someone out of his depth.
To answer the question you pose, no he won't be right, what I want to hear is an apology for the expensive mess in lives and money he has led us in to with this debacle.
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Excellent post carrie.
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Firstly I was opposed to the war, now its an increasing mess, pandora's box indeed.
That said, I think Chris Ryan, on Simon Mayo's show yesterday gave the most lucid and eloquent summary of the human cost, including the question of withdrawal. His statistic that more Falklands soldiers have taken their own lives than were lost in that war, is a disturbing thought, especially in the context of the lack of support and equipment of their current day colleagues. The terrain demands more than our soldiers are truly equipped for , and a more international effort is needed to galvanise and strengthen the infrastructure...at the moment, that is surely not possible.
It is the garnering of real international effort that is Gordon Brown's major task. surely?
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Brown is playing a game of double or quits in Afghanistan, and using the lives of British service men and women as betting chips.
And perhaps the killings in Texas will finally destroy the myth that moslems have integrated in the US better than they have in the UK.
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Since Al-Qaeda resides in Pakistan now, the only reason for being in Afghanistan is the TAPI OIl pipeline project. I notice Mr Brown doesn't talk about that. Why not? It is very important.
The original project started in March 1995 when an inaugural memorandum of understanding between the governments of Turkmenistan and Pakistan for a pipeline project was signed. In August 1996, the Central Asia Gas Pipeline, Ltd. (CentGas) consortium for construction of a pipeline, led by Unocal was formed. On 27 October 1997, CentGas was incorporated in formal signing ceremonies in Ashgabat, Turkmenistan by several international oil companies along with the Government of Turkmenistan. In January 1998, the Taliban, selecting CentGas over Argentinian competitor Bridas Corporation, signed an agreement that allowed the proposed project to proceed. In June 1998, Russian Gazprom relinquished its 10% stake in the project. Unocal withdrew from the consortium on 8 December 1998.
The new deal on the pipeline was signed on 27 December 2002 by the leaders of Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan. In 2005, the Asian Development Bank submitted the final version of a feasibility study designed by British company Penspen. Since the United States military overthrew the Taliban government, the project has essentially stalled; construction of the Turkmen part was supposed to start in 2006, but the overall feasibility is questionable since the southern part of the Afghan section runs through territory which continues to be under de facto Taliban control.
On 24 April 2008, Pakistan, India and Afghanistan signed a framework agreement to buy natural gas from Turkmenistan.
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Most of the terrorists in 9/11 were Saudis; the money which financed 9/11 was Saudi; the planning took place in Hamburg, Germany; the training took place in Florida, USA, however, we didn't follow the Saudi trail, instead we chose to bomb Afghanistan, the poorest country on earth, because some secret sources said that the intellectual perpetrator was hidden somewhere in that region. It's like you get into a pub with your beautiful girlfriend and somebody touches her buttocks and then you punch the skinny and vulnerable guy who didn't do it but whom you can get away doing it.
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Surely the best way to fight in Afghanistan would be through other local armies, in particular, wny doesn't the Pakistan army join in? Seems to me that the security problem there is a regional one - the locals recognise no border in the tribal areas. There is no way of subduing a huge country like Afghanistan using a few tens of thousands of foreign troops. Didn't the Russians send in 300,000 and still they failed.
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" Could someone find out how many innocent Afghan children and villagers are also killed and maimed."
for every uk soldier there are 22 afghan deaths (not due to these IEDs).
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"And perhaps the killings in Texas will finally destroy the myth that moslems have integrated in the US better than they have in the UK."
nothing to do with integration.
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The Teliban are the indigenous people from Afganistan,they arent terrorists and they havent been planting bombs in this country,so how can fighting the Teliban make our streets more secure?the only reason the Teliban are fighting us is because,like Russia,we invaded their country.The terrorists are Al Quieda and there predominantly in Pakistan,where we arent,so why is dragging this tribal country into our idyllic demoncracy so important,do we have to convert every country,that doesnt posses nukes,to our democracy?
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"Since Al-Qaeda resides in Pakistan now, the only reason for being in Afghanistan is the TAPI OIl pipeline project. I notice Mr Brown doesn't talk about that. Why not? It is very important."
its not the only reason the extremist neo cons (uk and usa) and obama for the last 2 years have been seeking to take the war into pakistan primarily on the pretext of nuclear weapons security. that is why we have this linkage - afpak. that is why brown desperately makes this unproven claim of uk terror plots having links to paksitan.
in the regions media it has been reported that we will seek intervention once the expected attack by so called 'pakistan taliban' on a pakistan nuclear facility sometime next year. we can expect the usa-uk troop numbers to be at its maximum by xmas (or by the time obama finally decides to escalate the war.
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"Seems to me that the security problem there is a regional one "
the security problem is entirely one created by the uk and usa. the more troops the greater the afghans are fighting back.
the taliban are afghans, disparate groups be they tribal, ethnic or religious affiliations.
brown talks about afghanisation of the afghans, thats like the afghans wanting to make the british more british .
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The idea that fighting in Afghanistan makes the UK safer is, of course, a myth. First of all, Afghanistan is too poor to strike against any western country. They're starving. Only the Saudis or the Iranians have the means. But polititians have to find justifications for a mistake that is taking so many lives.
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In an alleged democracy like the UK's, the fact that more and more people are now asking what our military role is in Afghanistan now that the number of casualties are increasing highlights how voters were duped about the real reasons for the occupation in exactly the same way they were duped about Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq!
As long as the UK public are just passive observers back home, relying on everything they hear from mainstream war correspondents, senior military chiefs and politicians etc they will always be brainwashed, will never bring the politicians to account and tragically the fatalities will continue!
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To the editors. Every time you conduct one of these phone in discussions on Afghanistan or anything to do with the Armed Forces you monopolise the discussion with callers who are either serving or former HMF or relatives of casualties. Why?
Presumably this is because its assumed their past military experiences makes them a better authority to discuss the situation than their civilian counterparts. As an ex squaddie myself this, in a large number of cases is debatable for reasons that are not relevent to this particlar discussion.
There must be many other contributors who contact you from all walks of life who want to touch on the subject from different perspectives!
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"PM tells us why the Aghan war goes on" Is there any technology to correct spelling mistakes?
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