Question Time....your verdict
Nick Griffin's appearance on Question Time is the subject of our phone in this morning ... who or what was the winner. Was it a triumph for democracy? Was free speech the winner? Or has a small minority party gained new credibility and priceless publicity.
You can watch the programme on the BBC i-player. Click here
Did Nick Griffin manage to get his point across?
Did his appearance signal the death of democracy - as some of his critics had predicted?
Who benefitted from last night's show - Nick Griffin and the BNP - or his critics?
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~58~RS~)
Comments
The BBC have sunk to a new low with this debacle last night. Griffin's views are extreme but his party are filling a void left by the 3 main parties and they are the ones to blame. The public are concerned about mass immigration and loss of identity. Straw was pathetic and Dimbleby a disgrace.
Why bother interviewing Hain this morning? The man is just another Labour fool.
Kate, Newcastle
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Sir,
Last night’s Question Time was a great disappointment to me. I had hoped that Nick Griffin would have been confronted by logical argument and a clear exposition of the weaknesses of his position. I had above all hoped for fairness.
But what happened was that he was shouted down, constantly interrupted while he was speaking, rarely allowed to state his view, and not listened to. The other members of the panel appeared to have a version of his opinions which he denied, and yet they took no notice of his denials. I had hoped that he would have been shown up by humour – but of humour there was none; only hot indignation. I had expected that Jack Straw would show courtesy, but he was so steamed up that he seemed to be beyond reason. I was ashamed of him.
Even the chair did not seem to be above the controversy. David Dimbleby especially at the beginning seemed to be arguing with Griffin. And he did almost nothing to restrain interruptions.
What can a program like that do to stop the growth of the BNP?
4richard
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I do think that the programme (and the interviews with various politicians this morning)will help the BNP. By having a totally hostile audience and by interviewing only those who will ridicule Nick Griffin, the BBC is drawing attention to the fact that quite a large section of the population is currently disenfranchised. I hate the BNP's attitude toward minority groups and I love our multicultural society, BUT ... I absolutely believe that the country is overpopulated and that the drawbridge should be pulled up. None of the mainstream parties will address this and I may well vote BNP next time despite my misgivings.
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I have no particular liking for Griffin, but I thought the early blow he struck on Jack Straw when he reminded him that while his own father was defending the country against Nazi-Germany in the RAF, Jack`s father was banged up in a british jail for refusing to fight against the forces of fascism was a glorious irony!
Ian Heard.
Devon
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I did not see the programme but heard Peter Hain on Radio 5 this morning. Why does he not ask himself how over 1 million people voted for the BNP - it is because they are disillusioned with supposed main stream parties such as his. Blaming the BBC for hosting the BNP is easy but he and all the other main parties should be taking this as a wake up call for their own policy making. It would be tragic if this resulted in even greater votes to the BNP.
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some comparisons i noticed in the question time program.
anti muslim ? bnp want to ban the burka ? jack straw already has refused to talk to muslims wearing the burka !
homosexuality ? are his views much different to baroness varsey ?
immigration ? both the liberal view and the conservative view seemed to be almost as hard as the bnp's .
ok they do want to represent white working class british people , who do sinn fean represent white catholic irish , how many black asian muslim members do they have ? with their seats in parliment and their long history of violence and murder , hmm democracy i hear you say .
it appears to me that if you are in a 'minority ' muslim , black , irish etc you can hold any view what so ever no matter how abhorant but if you are white working class you get judged and dammed by middle class english liberal values.
strange country this i will never understand the british...
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I think a lot of people will vote for the BNP as a protest vote against mainstream parties inability or unwillingness to stop increases in population numbers by immigration from people seeking economic benefit. The body of the electorate can see we have an unemployed white underclass - living on benefit. They believe immigration is a burden on the tax payer. They do not accept immigration (or E European migration) is an economic necessity. They see the the character of their towns changing. They see political correctness pandering to minorities. They believe we are importing problems to our all ready overcrowded island. People want action to stem thsi tide and to us precious resources tackling our own problems. Nick Griffin and his party despite their extreme rehtoric are seen as the only party currently standing up to the tide and as a consequence they will be supported until the mainstream listen to the alarm bells that are definitely ringing.
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Mr Griffin was bullied and picked on by the panel last night, the audience was clearly biased and "seeded" - by whom, who knows - this man is a democratically elected politician. If this was a member of the Communist Party no-one would give a damn, is it because Griffin and his party have indeed hit a seam in the British electorate and are a real and present danger to the mainstream parties? Surely Sayeeda Warsi, as a Conservative, must have similar views on mass immigration - somewhat diluted obviously, to Griffin. And, please, could the arrogant Left stop assuming that the colour of someone's skin denotes their politics, funnily enough I think that's called racism.
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Unfortunately the programme descended into a rabble which did in fact appear to bully Mr Griffin into a corner. This ironically can and did play into the liberal-minded, like myself who wanted to hear a clear debate, and not emotive rants and shout downs.
However, I went to you tube, and reasrched the BNP in their own words. I defy anyone to watch Re:Brand Nazi Boy, a programme about Mark Collet, or, footage of the Red white and blue event, Mr Griffins ongoing associates, and general BNP members, to find myself grounded in the absolute horror of the BNP's true message and agenda.
It is worrying that the passive nature of an al too large sector of the UK electorate will not value and therefore research their voting choice, if they find themselves emotively sympathising with Griffins bashing last night.....
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Nic Griffin is standing up for what the majority of the UK has become to scared to say. The Labour government has changed the UK beyond belief and against the wishes of the majority. If we carry on changing like we have been svhools will be promoting homosexulity and Islam will be the country's religion. I dont want either to happen. Far too many people have come into the UK in the last 15 years. Labour are a disaster. Go Nic.
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Having watched Nick Griffon on Question Time last night, I didn't wake up this morning with a yearning to grow a small moustache, deport my Indonesian neighbour or listen to Wagner very loud. All I saw was a confused, inarticulate man make an idiot of himself and I thank the BBC for giving me the opportunity to make my own mind up.
However, if we're talking about not giving air time to violent, anti-democratic groups in future then perhaps Unite Against Fascism should considered. They mouth platitudes of "peaceful" protest and yet yesterday clearly demonstrated their real aims in trying to storm the BBC, denying innocent bystanders the freedom to leave the BBC building and trying to cave some poor policeman's head in.
Remind me, who were the fascists again?
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I haven't watched the programme yet but will do later. I had a feeling that it would just turn into a slanging match and that rational debate would be impossible. I have heard countless clips of the show and as yet my feelings are totally correct. And could Peter Hain please belt up, he is very tedious.
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This turned immediately in to a "What would you like to know of BNP views on.......",(enter subject). It should have been a normal Question Time with wide ranging audience questions to actually tease out a few more inanities from Griffin concerning the emptiness of all the BNP policies, not just the racist angle time and time again. As much as I enjoy Bonnie Greer in her usual settings (ie without having to sit by Griffin), I thought her attempts to tease and goad rather than debate a bit misjudged. As for Straw, he must have been rehearsing since he was booked for the programme. He and Huehne were long winded and often irrelevant. The star was Baroness Warsi.
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If last nights appearance on national TV acts as a incentive for the main stream parties to take the peoples concerns on immigrations seriously then it was a good thing. I recently wrote to David Cameron with copies to every member of his shadow cabinet asking him to at least make an effort to find out the true feelings of the people of this country on this subject. You would at least expect a reply from him, but to date I have not.
At the recent main stream annual party conferences not one party discussed immigration. They are all in denial and lack the courage to deal with it and whilst ever that is the case the voter will have to look else. I do not want to vote BNP but I am extremely frustrated with the other parties.
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I am not a supporter of the BNP but I did think that Nick Griffin missed a big opportunity to focus on the subject of imigration which is a subject that concerns a lot of UK citizens, especially following a recession.
You only have to look at the recent power workers strike where local labour was denied even applying for work in favour of imigrant labour.
BARONESS WARSI commented on how imigration brings 'the great and the good' into the UK, Griffin missed the chance to highlight the mass illegal imigration that concerns most people I know. I would also say that the Conservative Government are failing miserably to control this problem.
Griffin was completly un-prepared, how on earth did he think that the rest of the panel would not bring up his previous quotes and he had no answers and ended up looking foolish.
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Last night's QT was a total and absolute disgrace. It was nothing more than a televised Hate Crime.
The hand-picked and stage-managed audience were sickening. Would a coloured person or a muslim have been set up for such treatment? I don't think so.
I shall never watch the programme again. (I had to turn it off!) I couldn't believe what I was seeing!
From the Rent-a-mob outside the BBC to hate-filled faces of the audience.
No wonder the BBC wanted him on QT, they made sure he had a good "kicking"
I've always watched the BBC, but I'll never believe them again.
There must be a case for moving the BBC away from London, as there appears to be a 5th Column in it.
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Nick Griffin 1 Jack Straw 0
Well done the BBC and Nick Griffin.The only serious information which came out of the whole mess of the "discussion" was a half completed statement from Jack Straw as to how the Labour party had no intention of curtailing immigration or doing anything to restrict the growth of the UK population.
The size of the population is the key to many problems which this country has now and which will certainly be the cause of major social,economic and climatic disasters in the future.
There has been no serious debate or statements by any of the major parties and especially the Greens as to how the country is going to cope in the future with a massive population.Food is already in an uncertain supply state with climate change causing shortages of wheat,rice and sugar around the world(and we import most of our food).Energy is looking to be a major problem in the next ten years with lack of oil,gas,nuclear and wind power.Transport is already grinding to a halt as a result of congestion and poor planning.Pensions are up the Kyber, but only one year has been added to retirement age; be bold ,go for five.Etc etc.
Message to Peter Hain - You, the Labour Party, all "politicians",are the wonkers.Get real and give this country some bloody leadership.
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Call. My only reservation about Nick Griffin appearing on this programme was that he wasn't going to be confonted by anyone from the opposite end of the political spectrum but that's understandable because despite Question Times' alleged 'premier' debating programme status its guests rarely extend beyond the centre left or the centre right of the political spectrum which is why the programme over the last few years has become staid and boring. Hence its producers increased the number of panellists to 5 o 6 protruding into the celebrity world to give the programme a bit of sparkle!
As I suspected therefore the programme was a farce centering around Nick Griffin the personality and his views on race and nationalism. It completely excluded the key issues of the day like how the BNP would have prevented the global financial crisis, would it have bailed out the banks, postal strike, climate change, is it a capitalist party etc? . Any political party cannot stand on emotive issues like race prejudice and bringing back thedeath penalty alone. It has to have an economic ideal and policies from which all its other policies like health and education is coordinated.
What many people don't realise is far right emotions and ideals won't go away simply because one of their leading personalities has been exposed on an established stage-managed programme like Question Time. The other panellists may well feel relieved that they had exposed Griffin's views on race. However they themselves(especially Jack Straw serving in a Labour government)due to the hype and publicity surrounding his presence on the programme escaped themselves from having to explain the bankruptcy of their own free market agendas which is exactly what provides ammunition to the far right anyway!
Whilst I hope I'm wrong, I fear that once the dust has settled the far right will simply capitalise from this programme!
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icemaiden26252 wrote:
The BBC have sunk to a new low with this debacle last night. Griffin's views are extreme but his party are filling a void left by the 3 main parties and they are the ones to blame. The public are concerned about mass immigration and loss of identity. Straw was pathetic and Dimbleby a disgrace.
Why bother interviewing Hain this morning? The man is just another Labour fool.
Kate, Newcastle
I agree, it seems all the panel were interested in was Griffin's - holocaust denial. That happened sixty years ago it's history. Immigration was/is the main topic today! Straw - did not have a clue Greer - was more interested in the "ice-age" a biased audience rounded the programme off!
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Well done to the BBC for practicing egality and letting the sizeable minority be heard. Badly done to the BBC for allowing a seemingly hand picked audience and panel come across, largely, as biggoted, narrow minded and intolerant of minority opinion.
Well done to the British audience (evidence this forum) for recognising and abhoring bullying and being intelligent enough to recognise that Nick Griffin was presenting his beliefs in the most dilute and palatable form possible for him; he is a politician and entitled to be economic with the truth.
I was very uncomfortable with his measured response in the face of hysteria; I'm sure he has won a few votes - but not mine.
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The BBC's demonizing of Nick Griffin will only increase support for the BNP. Our overpopulation due to mass immigration is at the root of our economic and social problems - it's nothing to do with skin colour or religion, just too many people - and they're still being allowed in in huge numbers. Unless one of the mainstream parties vows to tackle this in a radical fashion (and by "radical" I'm talking about closing the doors of GB, NOT deporting people already legally here), I shall vote BNP in the next election and I hope that lots of others do the same.
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Last nights programme was a joke, waht did we lear about the BNP that we didnt already know??? nothing
although i thought Nick Griffin came across as a wally, why was it just an excuse to smash him either by the panelists or the self rightous smug audience,
It was to easy for the other panelists, Jack Straw thought it was Christmas not one question to him about his parties useless performance.
As for the great un washed demonstrating outside, didnt notice them demonstrating when the extreme Muslims where calling our soldiers cowards or telling us Islam was taking over.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I agree that Nick Griffins party is seedy and repugnant however why is it that Jack Straw, who in the 1970's was a left wingers left winger with yellow shirt, brown knitted tie,with a massive ban the bomb badge pinned to his beige crumpled jacket and he protested against nuclear weapons altogether. Today as Foreign Secretary he has taken us into 2 wars in the middle east, at least one of those wars was on a lie and he has instigated the replacement of the Trident Nuclear programe in this country. He now wears a nice white shirt, red tie and smart blue suit. If he can change to that extent why not Nick Griffin and the BNP? If Griffins appearance was repugnant on Question time then so was Jack Straws as he has more faces than Big Ben.
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nouriblogger - you're not wendy mann in disguise are you?
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Amongst the two loudest voices in opposition to either Nick Griffin or the BBC respectively have been two leading ministers in the present Government,namely Straw and Hain. Both of them work for the leader of this country's Government who they know was not elected to his position.They work with a Business Secretary and a Transport Secretary neither of whom was elected to the House of Commons.Neither of these two people would have either the guts or the inclination to represent their privately held views about New Labour policies but would always accept the censorship of freedom of speech that goes with collective responsibility in cabinet.The Tories put up Baroness Warsi who was seen to be a star in their firmament but who failed to be elected to the House of Commons so was shoed into the Lords and who again would be reluctant to air privately held views if they went against the Party line. So who are these people to lecture the rest of us on ideas of democracy and freedom of speech.Last night's programme was hijacked by the BBC's programme makers in collusion with Dimbleby and the other panelists who spent the hour baiting Griffin. Slipping in a token question about a newspaper article on the sad death of a relatively meaningless singer in a relatively meaningless boy band did not serve to balance the programme which traditionally asks political leaders to air their views about important issues of the day,sometimes privately held but usually Party line.If this country is to make sense of what views Griffin has about law and order;about the likely future impact on this country of the European Union's intentions including the New Labour conspiracy to place Blair as the first President of Europe;about the fact that we are the only developed nation still in recession and actually going further into it albeit more slowly than before;about the rate of teenage pregnancy;binge drinking; drug taking;greed driven profit obsessed capitalist corporates destroying town and city centres as well as obliterating landscapes with relatively useless wind turbines;rationally about the effects of overpopulation rather than irrationally about the morality of immigration then he needs to be tasked to give views on these matters over an hour's debate not have the time wasted giving vent to Jack Straw's understandable distate for a Party that bares its loathsome soul to public scrutiny rather than attempting to disguise it in the garments of respectability as New Labour has always done. Like Las Vegas, New Labour is all fur coat and no knickers.The Tories I suspect will be the same. What we need in this country is decency and respectability. That demands a wholesale reconstruction of the political system not the BBC exploitation of a rather silly,immature unintelligent leader of a morally bankrupt minor Party.
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Sorry to comment again but in relation to the programe last night. First of all I fail to see where this mith has arisen that the human race started off in Africa? What rubbish. The only difference and I mean the only difference between the races on colour is caused through the ages because of the weather and the sun in particular and that the darker skin colour is for protection from the suns rays in warmer climates. The reason Northern Europeans are pale skinned is because we live in a cold dark climate and thus do not require the colouration. other than that we are the same so I cannot understand the hysteria we have about colour. However hatred over religion or culture is a manifestation of the Human Race and has been since the beginning of time. Tribe against Tribe even amongst the peoples of Africa today. The main battle has to be against Tribalism surely.However I do say to the people who search for a better life in the west...........live like a westerner dress like a westerner and live by our rules and standards or go back from whence you came............simple
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After reading most of the views on this forum above, I don't know whether to laugh or cry - especially the (alleged) British Muslim who wants to join the Anti-Islamic BNP!
Watching the audience go after the odious Griffin last night made me feel that this society does have a conscience, and does indeed have a moral compass, but reading the above I am again not so sure - or perhaps the Daily Mail has just encouraged it's readers to come onto this forum this morning?
I for one think that Britain is a great country, and consider myself extremely fortunate to have been born and raised here - safe, comfortable and protected by the state, not persecuted, imprisoned and controlled by it, as some less fortunate are. It seems some just want to keep this for themselves and deny it to others who do not have it due to the lottery of being born in a different land-mass.
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# Tribe against Tribe even amongst the peoples of Africa today. #
and not just Africa. It's happening here.
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Its a pity that the questions all centred on Hitler/Nazis/Churchill/Immigration. I wanted to hear what the BNP's policies were on the NHS, elderly, vulnerable, transport, EU, Iraq/Afghanistan wars, the economy, CO2 emissions, Crime in general and Youth crime in particular. Why was he being attacked all the time from both panelists and audience when most MP's have things in their past they have now changed or been embarrassed about so most of the attacks were not needed. British public are not stupid - we didnt need all those people being hostile to an individual in order to make up our minds. It was like a Kanagaroo Court and so until I have heard more about the policies they intend to put into place I'm not going to reject them.
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""""Griffin’s views on the Holocaust are naive and risible; my dad fought in WWII and had friends that helped liberate Belsen. Trying to say the Nazis never had a deliberate policy of exterminating Jews is simply fantasy."""""
That's all that seemed of interest to the panel and the handpicked audience Griffin's - veiws on the Holocaust. Whilst todays problems ie economy, housing, education were put on the backburner. Yes, probably your father did go to war in WW11 along with millions of others. So did Griffin's father! Dimbelby - and co, ought to be ashamed QT it was not! It was a pantomime....He's behind you!
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"As for the great un washed demonstrating outside, didnt notice them demonstrating when the extreme Muslims where calling our soldiers cowards or telling us Islam was taking over" quote from simsamsuk @22.
Exactly, but when I posted directly from a 5live report that said muslim protesters at the Wilder demo were holding signs stating "muslims will take over Europe" it was modded. Granted i asked why "as i hadn't made it up!" it was reposted. But again this morning my message was deleted when I asked -
"Why is everyone so critical of the bnp, when muslims at the wilder demo held signs saying “muslims will conquer the world” Double standards?
Everyone goes on about passages in the Koran and destroying the infidels and how they are misinterpreted, but surely people standing there right in front of our eyes and the television camera's stating their intentions cant be (misinterpreted)
So why does this get ignored. Aren't 'they' as appalling as some of the unpalatable views of the bnp?
For one, the BBC seem to be selective in their coverage. Have you heard them challenge the views of these muslims?
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BELSEN. The holocaust is a fact, and this is NOT about denial. But please know your facts! Belsen was NEVER a camp set up for Jews. It was primarily a Russian POW camp but other categories of political prisoners were sent their and of course died in their thousands. As the war drew to a close a very small number of Jews were moved their.
If we are going to contribute to this debate we must get our facts right.
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· 33. At 11:25am on 23 Oct 2009, Bee_A_Bee wrote:
"As for the great un washed demonstrating outside, didnt notice them demonstrating when the extreme Muslims where calling our soldiers cowards or telling us Islam was taking over" quote from simsamsuk @22.
Exactly, but when I posted directly from a 5live report that said muslim protesters at the Wilder demo were holding signs stating "muslims will take over Europe" it was modded. Granted i asked why "as i hadn't made it up!" it was reposted. But again this morning my message was deleted when I asked -
"Why is everyone so critical of the bnp, when muslims at the wilder demo held signs saying “muslims will conquer the world” Double standards?
Everyone goes on about passages in the Koran and destroying the infidels and how they are misinterpreted, but surely people standing there right in front of our eyes and the television camera's stating their intentions cant be (misinterpreted)
So why does this get ignored. Aren't 'they' as appalling as some of the unpalatable views of the bnp?
For one, the BBC seem to be selective in their coverage. Have you heard them challenge the views of these muslims?
Ok so you deleted me again, so I've re-posted.
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The thing is, my guess is that he doesn't like immigrants because of the colour of their skin, not on how they behave. He gave himself away as a racist a few times.
There would be less trouble if immigrants would do more to integrate. You shouldn't have a situation where council leaflets are printed in ten different languages. If British people settle in other countries, they have to integrate and show at least a nod to the ways of living of all the other people there. It should be MORE like that here.
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Chris Huhn was bit disingenuous during the moan-in this morning when he denied that anyone interrupted Griffin - I was one of the eight million who watched and I clearly heard the rest of the panel (maybe not Huhn specifically) frequently interrupting and talking over Griffin. What they should have done is shut up, let him trot out his complete answers and deliver his own coup de grace.
And Straw showed that my less-than-flattering opinion of him is entirely justified. Dimbleby didn't exactly cover himself in impartial glory either - he was the leading attack dog on more than one occasion.
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It is interesting that not one of the main strem parties discussed immigration during their recent conference weeks. And that is because none of the three main parties have a clue of what the millions of voters of this country think about immigration. I believe that it is easily in the top three of their major concerns. But are too scared to say so. They would however if they could speak their minds through protection that the anonymity of a referendum would give them.
NO POLITICAL PARTY should ever be allowed to govern this so called DEMOCRATIC country of ours WITHOUT a thorough knowledge of the people’s wishes.
I call upon every political party to demand a Referendum on immigration now as that is the only way we will ever know the true feelings of this countries population.
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The only thing that was shown up is the lack of democracy in our society. MPs are elected on a first past the post system, in which the outcome of 90% of the seats are certain, irrespective of the merits of the MP. None of the 3 main parties were last night prepared to debate intelligently with Nick Griffin, any of the issues which have caused his party to win votes. Certainly Griffin has skeletons in the cupboard, but with a legacy of sleaze, spin, lies, massive debt, corruption, expenses fiddles, and an immigration policy which will cause massive overcrowding in Britain, none of the 3 main parties are interested in an objective discussion. No doubt all 3 mps on the panel live in rich leafy wealthy, predominatly white areas.
They don't have the problem of never getting a seat on the bus , tube, or train. They do not have to suffer anti-social behaviour, crime & noise disturbance, becaus etheir neighbours are all middle 7 upper class.
None of the panelists have to wait 10 days for a doctors appointment, or months for a hospital visit, or cant get their children into a good school. No one objects to skilled intelligent hard working immigrants with professional skills who benefit Britain and society. However many of the people who New labour have brought in to Britain meet none of these criteria. They are often out of work, invariably will have many children, and if they are working, it will only be for very low wages (often forced below minimum wage, by agency fees and linked low grade accomodation). This is modern slavery to generate profits for the wealthy. How racist is that -and a policy fostered by New Labour. and of course the net result is that our own working classes who quite rightly refuse to work for such expoititative conditions are forced onto mthe dole or sickness benefit.
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Firstly it was absolutely correct for the BBC to allow Mr Griffin onto Question Time.
I have three gripes and non of them, sadly, are about Mr Griffin or his views.
1) Mr Griffin was not given a chance to express his views. I was hoping that he would expose his outrageous views but it simply didn't happen.
All I have heard before, after and during the broadcast are everybody else's version of Mr Griffin's views. I wanted to hear his. Only this morning I heard somebody stating that Mr Griffin said he did not believe that the holocaust took place. All I heard him say was that he questioned the figures that have been quoted.
2) The only question on the show that was not solely directed at Mr Griffin was whether Labour party policy had helped the rise of the BNP. Jack Straw's answer was absolutely pathetic. This is a real issue. Not about the BNP and not about race just as the baroness and the member of the audience stated. The labour party showed us that they are too scared to confront these issues. So for that reason alone this broadcast was correct.
3) My last point centred around a member of the audience who stated that there are 2.5 million people unemployed and that we do not need immigration. The response he received was that these people would not do the jobs available. The audience clapped and cheered. I was DISGUSTED. The BBC tried, before the show, to reassure the viewers that the audience was impartial. If that is true I am DISGUSTED with British public opinion. I am from London and I can only assume that they are all in work and have not suffered being unemployed, because if they were unemployed they would not be cheering. I have never been unemployed. That is not because I believe I don't deserve to be but because I feel I am very fortunate. Unemployment fills me with fear and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
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Last night's programme was an utter disgrace.
It wasn't Question Time - it was Inquisition Time.
I am sick and tired of being treated like a brain dead bimbo unable to think for myself; stop spoonfeeding me stuff that you think I should think!
Dimbleby's performance was unbelievable. He's the Chair for goodness sake not the lead Rottweiler!
The Beeb have really shot themselves in the foot by chosing to make this QT an attack on one panelist for the entire duration.
The British people like fair play - what we witnessed was a group of people ganging up and bullying a fellow panelist.
He would have been exposed for the idiot he is if he'd been allowed to talk; but oh no. The Been knew better - howl him down, interrupt him, tell him (and us) what he says and what he thinks because, you know, Joe Public might not get it otherwise because, well apart from a few of them, Joe Public are a bit thick.
How DARE you (the Beeb) treat us like this?
I am appalled and I am not the only one. The general consensus of opinion about last night's QT was that it was abject, puerile and totally misguided - you FOOLS!
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so the bbc first legitimises the bnp then tries to pretend that it has acted in the interest of wider societal values, democracy and cohesion. nothing could be further from the truth.
it provided griffin a place on the mainstream, it provided the bnp with millions of pounds of advertising/promotion, it provided a direct political broadcast to the bnp constituency. it provided griffin a real political role.
the question is why would the bbc want to provide so much for the bnp? hazel blears promised us a summer of rage, it didnt materialise but late into the season out of nowhere appeared the edl who managed to avoid banning of their incitements by a work around of the law. today the bbc sought to give voice to fascism into the maisntream. it wasnt under any obligation to do so though it has argued disingenuously it was.
on talksport today the feeling was that the bnp provided a credible case (admittedly talksport do attract many bnp supporters).
griffin is on a win win. he knows it. today the rest of us now know it too.
a good article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/oct/21/jack-straw-bnp-griffin-hain?commentpage=1
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"He would have been exposed for the idiot he is if he'd been allowed to talk;"
were you wa5tching the same programme as the rest of us?
http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=_QAvkFS_cgk&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3D_QAvkFS_cgk%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded
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apparantly griffin is an aborigine ... does that make aborigines british?
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I watched 20 minutes of the programme this morning and switched off. It was an appallingly biased programme - the audience and the panel were more like attack pit bulls than a supposedly intelligent group of people. If you want to do an in depth expose of the BNP you should do it as a one to one and not as a lynching. Dimbleby was supposed to be the chairman, not a participant in the baying mob. The BNP will have done well out of this and all for the wrong reasons.
I also thought that the questions were unknown to the panel - it seemed to me that Straw had a pre-prepared speech handy for every issue.
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//were you wa5tching the same programme as the rest of us?//
I would ask the same of you, Wendy Mann. Have you looked at the QT website and the many hundreds of comments on there?
98% of those comments were made by people, like me, who were appalled at last night's handling of QT.
It doesn't mean that 98% of the viewing public are rascist btw (just in case you are inclined to jump to that conclusion) but that 98% thought the programme was totally inept.
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"I would ask the same of you, Wendy Mann. Have you looked at the QT website and the many hundreds of comments on there?"
as you must know the bnp have activists that troll popular message boards to sell their fascistic brand of 'democracy'.
they also troll phone in shows , talksport being their favored but they do local and 5live .. i suspect that it would be true of the bbc qt boards.
the bnp in this respect are highly organised so no its not a surprise that the qt is being spammed.
what you should be appalled about is the fact that griffin was anywhere near the bbc qt studio on a platform that was given to him to legitimise fascism into the mainstream.
do you really need to know anything more than his holocaust denial, his anti gay stance, his bigotry towards people of color or his misrepresenting the koran and islam.
what is it that you were actually wanting to hear that would make him palatable despite his track record.
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now nicky should and i suspect does understand that the 'troublesome' parts (his words) of the koran have a context and are not to be taken literally. this much he acknowledged late on into the show when a caller made this very point.
the question is therefore why did nicky not deal robustly with the islamophobic callers who took griffins view of islam as being honest or accurate.
so this mornings breakfast show has a problem , nicky provided an incorrect perception of islam that appears to meet the bnp view half way. this of course feeds into the way the bnp are perceived. if not for that caller who contextualised the quote , the bnp rhetoric against islam would have gone unchallenged. this goes further whilst there is great effort to be robust over holocaust denial and homophobic views why does it stop at islam and muslims.
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I see - all the comments on various boards and callers into Radios 5 and 2 are all BNP trolls. Really, I didn't realise that the BNP had so much support.
You are being ridiculous.
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Sarnia - That particular poster is always ridiculous.
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Now that the dust has settled it didn't take BBC bosses long yesterday to announce heartily that the viewing figures for this edition of Question Times had increased threefold from normal. This of course was the intention all along and why, unlike other appearances on BBC broadcasts like 'the Big Question' or 'Any Questions' Griffin's appearance on this 'premier' Question Time programme was billed as the political event of the year! The corollary is that if Question's Times viewing figures had increased to such an extent because of Griffin's presence it says a hell of a lot about Question Time and the state of mainstream party politics generally.
Likeswise we've all been duly informed today that one out of five voters are now more likely to vote BNP having watched the farce! This unequivocally underlines the true political motive of why Griffin was on and why he was allegedly humiliated. There was never the slightest intention by the programmes producers of discussing the key issues of the day as per the format of normal programmes and it was all made to look as if the right-wing BNP were the victims of the programme when in fact the real targets were the left whose support was steadily gaining momentum due to Postal Strikes, military crisis in Afghanistan, economy steeped in recession etc.
The format of the whole programme was quite clearly a right-wing bias media election stunt where, probably in collusion with the BNP itself, Nick Griffin's performance and alleged humiliation was deliberately stage-managed in order to steal the sympathy vote from disaffected apathetic Labour voters who've been completely let down by New Labour's failed Tory policies.
If the race, anti-immigration, anti EU, denial of holocaust, bring back the death penalty tags are removed from the BNP it should be clear that the party is simply a capitalist outfit or a more extreme version of the Tory Party which as Griffin stated correctly, Churchill might have joined throughout his time!
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"You are being ridiculous."
what i am pointing out to you is that the bnp have an effective organisation that does mobilise with respect to phone ins, message boards etc.
that is not to say that all people who write are bnp just that its not what it appears to be superficially.
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" The format of the whole programme was quite clearly a right-wing bias media election stunt where, probably in collusion with the BNP itself, Nick Griffin's performance and alleged humiliation was deliberately stage-managed in order to steal the sympathy vote from disaffected apathetic Labour voters who've been completely let down by New Labour's failed Tory policies."
even i wouldnt go that far, however certainly there has been an attempt to somewhat legitimise the bnp or at least fascism into the mainstream, otherwise the question time stunt does not make any sense considering the way it has been promoted and that the bbc had no obligation to have the bnp , it wasnt about democracy or democratic rights and it cannot be about freespeech since there are limits.
in the end the question is as always .. who benefits and so far it is fascism.
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Poster Number 41 - quote "The British people like fair play" Unquote.
No doubt that the indigenous British people? lol
"Silence is one of the hardest arguments to refute". ~ Josh Billings
Sounds fair to me Mr Billings!
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I cant believe what I am reading. What is it that you want to hear from Nick Griffin. I can agree that he was continually interupted and Dimbelby's handling of the show was poor, Am i suprised - NO, to hear politicians interupting each other, but even with the opportunities Nick Griffin had to answer questions he still for me made a fool off himself.
The man is clearly an idiot, his party is rascist by the core, as we all know, so why do you want to hear what he has to say about the NHS,the economy etc. Would you want to hear what the Ku Klux Klan have to say about the economy if they had a party.
A man is a man based on his morals and ideals., and the constant use of the word lynching against a man who supports the Ku Klux Klan? i suggest people chose their words better than that
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Funny how the BBC are all over this:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8323638.stm
but, unlike every other media outlet, have suspiciously little to say about this:-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html
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"He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".
Isn't this what Nick has been saying all along? Pity he wasn't given the chance to question Jack Straw on this, Jack must have been party to it!
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""""""The man is clearly an idiot, his party is rascist by the core, as we all know, so why do you want to hear what he has to say about the NHS,the economy etc. Would you want to hear what the Ku Klux Klan have to say about the economy if they had a party."""""""
Errr......Yes, one would like to hear what he at to say about NHS, and the economy. The KKK was/is an independent organisation and is not "pledged to any political party." The KKK was established in Pulaski, Tennessee. Please note the word "Pulaski."
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Why does he [Peter Hain] not ask himself how over 1 million people voted for the BNP
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Peter Hain's assertion that the BNP are responsible for the rise of the BNP is utterly shameful.
It's his own governments non existent policies on immigration which is driving people into the arms of Griffin. Jack Straw should us again how out of touch Labour are and lets not forget Blair used to play the race card to suppress any debate on this subject.
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It doesn't surprise me why the BBC Question Time programme was biased against Nick Griffin. After all the programme was run by the 'Muslim loving BBC'. This is not just my observation; in fact a Muslim taxi driver once commented this to me. I notice how the BBC favours Islam above Christianity in their programmes, often noticeable in the BBC Newsnight. On numerous occasions Christianity issues are ignored/rejected in favour of Islam. There are so many cases that I can cite that it's almost unbelievable. I think it's wrong the way the BBC supports Islam the way it does and ignores Christianity in important issues. In fact I think the BBC should be called Blatantly Biased against Christianity which would be a more apt title.
What was obvious that the Question Time programme was set-up to propagate the BBC's Islamic influence and discredit the BNP. In my opinion it went wrong for the BBC and gave credence to Nick Griffin by the way he conducted himself on the programme in comparison to the other people present. I am no racist, in fact some of my friends are Muslim, and I do not support the BNP but the only person who acted with any professionalism and decency on the Question Time programme was Nick Griffin.
Jack Straw was not exactly the ideal person to have on the panel criticizing Nick Griffin. His father was a conscious objector, which is no fault of Jack Straw, but can he honestly hold his head up high when he is watching our British soldiers going off to fight in Afghanistan. Mr Griffin can as his father served in the RAF as was pointed out on the programme. Like father like son springs to mind. Let's not forget that when Mr Straw was Home Secretary, his son was caught in possession of Cannabis. Obviously Mr Straw's anti-drug stance didn't catch on at home. So before Mr Straw knocks Nick Griffin and what he stands for, he should get his own house in order first. As Justice Secretary I didn't see him protesting vocally when the Lockerbie bomber was released from prison and allowed to return home to Libya.. In my opinion Mr Straw is a man of little substance. Stick-on and he proved that on the Question Time programme.
Baroness Warsi seemed to be full of her own importance and (understandably) didn't like Mr Griffin's comment that Islam is evil because it treats it's women unfairly. David Dimbleby referred to Baroness Warsi as the most important Muslim woman in England. Let's be honest there are not many important Muslim women anywhere in the world and that says a lot as regards Muslim women. You won't see a Christian counterpart of Baroness Warsi speaking so freely in such as Iran or Saudi Arabia. In this country we have freedom of speech and expression unlike Islamic countries that treat women unfairly. Even though I don't agree with Mr Griffin that Islam is evil, because of the way Muslim women are treated, I can understand why he thinks that.
The Liberal Democrat Chris Huhne’s comments were unimportant. In my opinion the Liberal Democrats change their policies as much as they run with the hair’s and run with the hounds.
The Playwright Bonnie Greer showed herself up to be arrogant and misinformed on the true history of British people. The influences on Britons were that of such as the Romans, Anglo-Saxons and Normans not from such as those from Asian countries even though early man did come from Asia, Neanderthals as Mrs Greer pointed out. Such as the Reformation and the Industrial Revolution and other important events in British history came about because of people of a Caucasian race. It is only during the last fifty years that this country has become a multi-cultural society of people of all different colours and creeds. Non-whites have barely featured in the development of this great country and that is fact.
Last but not least was the way the Chairman of Question Time conducted himself. David Dimleby in his role should have been indifferent, unbiased and allow everyone present to put across their views. He was none of these, in fact he adopted the attitude that he is more important that the guest on his panel. He was rude to Mr Griffin. He never looked at Mr Griffin when he spoke to him; he was full off arrogance and his own importance. A man not governed by his own intellect but by the Muslim loving BBC producers/bosses. In my opinion Mr Dimbleby has lost his credibility and should no longer chair Question Time. He wants to remember that such as Mr Griffin pay a TV licence fee to keep such as Mr Dimbleby in the luxury of the position he affords.
Not once was Mr Griffin allowed to talk about his role as an MEP which is an important role. No one asked Mr Griffin about such MP’s misuse of expense which has proved many MP’s to be thoroughly dishonest and distrustful. To me it seemed as if the audience has been hand picked purposely for the BBC’s own aims. The Question Time panel of guests certainly was. A Jewish member of the audience commented about Mr Griffin’s attitude towards the holocaust. There was no mention of the Iranian president and his many Muslim followers wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Mr Griffin was barely allowed time to give his views on immigration and what he did say, in my opinion, was sense. Simply: we must stop immigration. As a TV licence payer I would have liked to have heard what Mr Griffin had to say on his policies as leader of the BNP and that as an MEP. All we got was a Muslim-influenced sham of a programme which seems to be prevalent in the BBC.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"I notice how the BBC favours Islam above Christianity in their programmes, often noticeable in the BBC Newsnight. On numerous occasions Christianity issues are ignored/rejected in favour of Islam."
Frequently as espoused by Anjem Choudary and similar.
Classic was the Newsnight appearance around the time of the Danish cartoon "protests" where Choudary would not let the opposing argument (from a woman) come forth without constant venomous interruption and Paxman cut him off with a, "Shut up! - you've had your say, matey!"
Hilarious...
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My comment concerns the factual matter of whether it is valid to talk of “indigenous British”. I did not watch the Question Time broadcast on 22 Oct, but in the discussion of the programme on 5 live's Breakfast Phone-in the following day, I heard Ekow Eshun (Artistic Director of the ICA) tell Nicky Campbell that “you can’t talk about a sole, indigenous, pure race. You can’t talk about that because you are not an isolated community…it’s totally contradicted by history.” Eshun brushed aside Campbell’s assertion that he is a Celt with a laugh and some vague dismissive remarks.
Leaving aside Eshun’s use of the term “pure race”, which he implied could apply only to people such as Australian Aborigines and Native Americans, and is in itself rather a racist concept; recent research shows that there is good scientific evidence supporting the notion of “indigenous” British. To anyone wishing to learn about this, I recommend the book “The Origins of the British” by Stephen Oppenheimer, published in paperback by Robinson in 2007 (page numbers below refer to this paperback edition). Dr Oppenheimer is an Associate of the Institute of Cognitive and Evolutionary Anthropology at the University of Oxford. His conclusions about British ancestry are based on analysing the non-recombining portions of our DNA: i.e. mitochondrial DNA and the non-recombining part of the Y-chromosome. He combines this analysis with evidence from climatology, geology, archaeology, linguistics, culture and history.
Oppenheimer’s conclusions are that “three-quarters of British ancestors arrived long before the first farmers … 88% of Irish, 81% of Welsh, 79% of Cornish, 70% of the people of Scotland … 68% (over two-thirds) of the English” (p. 470). Most of the remaining third arrived in England between 6,000 and 3,000 years ago from North-West Europe, especially from Scandinavia. “There were later invasions … but no individual event contributed even a tenth of our modern genetic mix.” (p. 470). Oppenheimer’s book shatters the myths of mass Celtic, Anglo-Saxon etc. invasions and migrations replacing the original inhabitants. It is probably these that Ekow Eshun is thinking of when he says that the idea of “indigenous British” is “totally contradicted by history”.
Eshun’s reaction to Nicky Campbell’s assertion of his Celtic identity seems particularly inappropriate in light of Oppenheimer’s findings, since genetically the most conservative parts of the British Isles are represented by “Celtic bastions” such as Ireland and Welsh peninsulas “retaining respectively 88% and 89% of their pre-Neolithic founding lineages” (pp. 474-475) … “Celtic ethnicity is a valid concept, both modern and ancient” (p. 471).
Oppenheimer uses the terms “aboriginal” and “indigenous” several times (pp. 15, 474-476) when referring to past and present populations of the British Isles. It’s clear from his work that these are valid concepts. Why does Ekow Eshun object so strongly? Is it just because the BNP seem to have picked up on this research and are using the term “indigenous British” for there own ends? Is Eshun’s logic that anything the BNP says must be untrue?
The notion of indigenous ethnic British identities should not be seen as a threat. This is expressed well by Oppenheimer: “I believe in celebration of our diversity rather than cultural levelling. Pretending that differences should not exist is a political fib.” (p. xvii) and he goes on to discuss his own mixed ethnic ancestry and “enriched” multicultural family (pp. 486-487).
There is a danger in criticising the idea of ethnic British identities. Those who intuitively feel indigenously Scottish, English, Irish, Welsh etc. will feel resentment, and if they learn that their intuitions are supported by respectable scientific research they could start to doubt anything else those same critics say about the BNP.
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If Nick Griffin can guarantee that the orignal style message boards will be mandatory for all public-service broadcasters, then he'll get my vote. Nothing else matters.
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Ha ha ha!!
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Yes Ha Ha Ha! indeed! I'll vote for that policy!
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