New calls to ban the BNP
Should the BNP appear on Question Time? The Welsh Secretary, Peter Hain, says the idea of Nick Griffin taking part in Thursday's show is "abhorrent" - do you think he should be banned, or is it better to let the BNP on air so people can make up their own minds on their policies?
Peter Hain says the BBC's postion is "unreasonable, irrational and unlawful"
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Let Griffin hang himself with his own policies. Trouble is, there will be an almighty slanging match if Dimbleby isn't careful and that would be a real pity.
Good luck to the security guards!
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The BBC has already had planted questions from BNP members, so this threshold has already been passed. Source Private Eye 16 - 29th October 2009
Perhaps the BBC should question why two members have been elected to the European Talking Shop?
Perhaps the BBC should also question why we are so polarised in our views?
Or is it just to castrate this party, yet allow the rentacrowd mobs who walk in the vale of greenwash this weekend?
One awaits balance from the BBC, yet we get camera crews with the anit capitalist in Nottinghamshire, reports from self anointed animal NuWelfarists in Somerset, thinly disguised as news, yet the Editors in Chief still adorn the green fringed spectacles.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/somerset/8310757.stm
Now, will the BBC allow the debate to focus on why these
Alas the Earl stopped watching the BBC News on Monday May 3rd 1982 at 10:33 pm, though he used to watch QT when it debated real issues, especially when Mike of Hesseltine and the Viscount Stansgate were giving it their all. Alas, sad though it is today, debate is so polarised by automans, whom get their sense of direction from self anointed life heroes.
As was said to me recently at the passing of a friend. You do not have to look for celebs or heroes, the real ones are amongst you all the time.
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If the presence of the BMP on question time forces the main stream political parties to pull their head out of the sand on the subject immigration then I think that it is a good thing. I am a Conservative voter but fell they are unwilling to answer my concerns on this subject. This country is over populated and WE THE PEOPLE want it stopped! At least the presence of the BMP is may force the main parties to listen to the people of this country. Currently SCARED of the immigration issue.
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The BBC has already had planted questions from BNP members, so this threshold has already been passed. Source Private Eye 16 - 29th October 2009
Perhaps the BBC should question why two members have been elected to the European Talking Shop?
Perhaps the BBC should also question why we are so polarised in our views?
Or is it just to castrate this party, yet allow the rentacrowd mobs who walk in the vale of greenwash this weekend?
Another colour-coded debate....Yes, the BNP are on QT and yes, they have a right to be. After all they are "legal political party" this gives them the right to appear on QT! It seems that civil liberties and human rights are a oneway street. as long has you think black you can walk hand-in-hand with civil liberties and human rights.
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Hains comments show that free speech is only allowed in this country if what you say agrees with the left wing views if the liberal political elite.
The BNP have a legitimate right for the same respresentation as all the other parties and represent a significant proportion of the UK population.
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I feel that the election of the BNP is the beginning of the end for them, as shown by their recent concession on membership. This would not have happened if they had not won these seats. I feel that this appearance on Question Time will be another nail in the coffin of this party.
I seem to remember a while ago that Margeret Hodge was condemned for suggesting that the BNP were a major threat to Labour in poor areas, because some of these poorer people felt they were being let down by Labour on housing and immigration issues. I get a sense that a lot of the opposition coming from the left has less to do with abhorence of the BNP's views and more to do with the ballot box. This to me shows the contempt that Labour holds the electorate in, believing people not to be intelligent enough to make up their own minds.
The BNP are disgusting, but they should not be banned. I can't help feeling that the oxygen of publicity will inevitably mean that they will crash and burn.
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Firstly, who is Peter Hain to dictate who should appear on QT? How many people remember the young Peter Hain making a real nuisance of himself digging up Rugby pitches etc and being chased by the Police when he first came to this country, he was a real pest. He should have been deported.
If I remember rightly, wasn't he deported from South Africa? It beats me how he had the arrogance to put himself up for an MP. Or how stupid people were to vote for him.
Also I thought presenters were supposed to be impartial (did anyone tell Nicky?) He was busy "beating his gums" to the PC line.
The "powers that be" are terrified of the BNP because they are saying what alot of people want to hear.
Perhaps the BNP's time is coming. Others have had things their way for too long.
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Right on, cleverelliejo, tell it how it is. Hain was always good at loading the gun for others to shoot - he never threw the tacks on the ruby field, but didn't condem those that did. Wasn't he in the Liberal Party for a while? But waiting for a chance to run the country with that lot is like waiting for Crash Gordon to take any blame for the state the UK is in.
Anyway, all this fuss about Question Time is only the BBC trying to drum up an audience for a clapped-out program.
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The BBC's position is clear - it must allow the BNP access to programmes such as Question Time because they are not an illegal party and because they have two elected members of the European Parliament [and a number of local councillors as well].
The way to stop the BNP being given airtime is to ban the party.
Otherwise, we must hear them from time to time just as we must allow them Party Election Broadcasts.
Griffin will only have to bite his lip so as not to frighten electors during questions concerning race, religion or immigration but there will be other questions to which he may give perfectly mainstream answers and which might serve the party's reputation well. That's the real danger of the opportunity offered him. But whoever said that democracy could be left to look after itself. It will always be under attack from some quarter or another and we need to be ready to challenge the intellectually lazy views of people who scapegoat others for society's shortcomings instead of coming up with proper solutions to the problems that beset us.
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What Peter Hain will not admit is the rise of the BNP is directly linked to the ineptitude and mendacity of his own party.
A party that has been in government for over a decade
A party that has intruded, snooped, legislated and generally interfered with nearly every aspect of our lives yet has lost control of this country's borders and the criminal justice system
Personally I believe that politicians that refuse to answer questions should be banned from QT - the problem is that virtually no-one from New Labour ,save the heretic Frank Field, would be permitted!
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I remember in 1972 when the National Front was becoming an issue, a certain Peter Hain, who was then a stone throwing, demonstrating leader of the National Students' Union coming along to Blackburn College to have a "debate" with a gentleman named John Kingsley-Read, who was, at the time, leader of the National Front.
I went along to listen as I was a student at the college, only to watch Hain be humiliated by someone with a far superior knowledge of politics and history. It has always stuck in my mind as to how Peter Hain, career politician, has ever got to where he is, given his inability to debate.
Could it be that "Once bitten" in Peter Hain's case is "twice shy"?
Incidentally, Kingsley - Read was threatened and persecuted over a number of years by the likes of Peter Hain and died an untimely death, losing his home and family life along the way because he had the guts to say what he believed and to make the sacrifices when required.
What has Hain ever given up for his current position that makes him qualified to say who should be heard and who should not?
Not much if you ask me!
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My friend, who has a degree in history, said 'Cultures conquer other cultures'.
I think that cultures can mix, too, and 300 years down the line, all this will be so much froth.
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The rise of the BNP is the ignorance of people who hold credence to what they say.
Members of the public who claim they would vote for the BNP and say they are not racist are talking rot.
Looking forward to him being taken to pieces.
Ooooo well.....That's just put a downer on democracy! A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections. The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life.Banning the BNP from free speech and calling on BNP members racist! For" elections to be free and fair, they have to be administered by a neutral, fair, and professional body that treats all political parties and candidates equally. Voters must be able to vote in secret, free of intimidation and violence." Not according to the quote above !
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"This country is over populated "
no its not. 60 million people live on around 10% of the land . if you feel its overpopulated its because over 70% of the land is owned by around 5% of the population.
maybe you should really be looking for land reform/land distribution rather than blame immigration.
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"Hains comments show that free speech is only allowed in this country if what you say agrees with the left wing views if the liberal political elite."
we dont have freespeech, there are laws that limit our freedoms and they exist in the main to create an harmonious society.
the bnp seek to create a fascist state.
"The BNP have a legitimate right for the same respresentation as all the other parties and represent a significant proportion of the UK population."
is it really legitimate to claim holohoax, admire hitler and nazis?
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"How many people remember the young Peter Hain making a real nuisance of himself"
well he has the political belief that fascism should not be given room to thrive. his opposition against apartheid clearly indicates that he does have insight as to how evil those who support fascism through orgs such as the bnp really are.
"The "powers that be" are terrified of the BNP because they are saying what alot of people want to hear. "
hitler said a alot of what the public wanted to hear too. the bnp have admiration of hitler and called the mass murder of jewish people holohoax.
maybe on that basis the powers that be and the public should be terrified.
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"Anyway, all this fuss about Question Time is only the BBC trying to drum up an audience for a clapped-out program."
no its more than that, they are seeking to legitimise the bnp in a very significant manner.
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was nicky really being naive , does he really think that those who seek out the bnp vote dont know why they do so?
the fact is that whilst for nicky it might be abhorrent that the bnp have an admiration for hitler, nazis, meet with the kkk call the murder of jewish people an holohoax, for those who would be bnp voters these are positives, his credentials that he is offering them what they want. these are his medals of honour.
so what if someone mentions some aspect of griffins past , all he will do is deny he holds those views now, that he has seen the light. for some that denial of the past is all they need to hear.
it might dawn on the bbc, it hasnt yet that the debate they think they are having with the bnp and those who would vote bnp actually isnt the same one that the bnp are having with those who would and might vote bnp.
the bnp cannot lose on qt and it is the bbc who are legitimising fascism as a mainstream ideology.
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fascism is a foreign ideology, it goes against the very tradition , culture and british values . the british fought fascism. the bnp hold it close to their hearts.
these things are of little concern to those that support the bnp, since they are bigots with irrational prejudices and as so long as the bnp promote in one form or anothr that ideology of a superior race/ethnicity, culture and milk and honey for all who 'belong' they will continue to follow with cultist fervor.
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This ridiculous furore over whether Nick Griffin appears on some seedy stage managed programme like Question Time completely obscures from public attention the fact that the radical left in the UK have been completely marginalised from British politics due to New Labour's capitulation to Tory policies and ideals. It's also quite hypocritical because he's been a guest on BBC Radio 4 Any Questions, The Big Question and numerous other documentaries etc so what's so special about Question Time!
There's a very simple explanation why the likes of 'once left radical' Peter Hain and several others of his turncoat ilk in New Labour are incensed by Griffin and the BNP appearing on such programmes. Far right politics traditionally always gain momentum when left of centre governments become unpopular due to their failed right wing policies. This creates an electoral vacuum which disenfranchises many core working class voters. It's these types of voters who, not due to ignorance and gullibility but rather due to political apathy are targetted by the likes of the BNP who instil into them there is a nationalist solution to all the nations ills and that foreigners and immigration are the problem.
Consequently the likes of Hain, Blunkett, Straw, Clarke, Harman etc are all reluctant today to openly debate with the likes of the BNP because deep down they are aware themselves its their abandonment of their once held socialist principles that allows the BNP to gain momentum!
To rant on about the BNP being thugs and scum is pointless. They may be constitutionally illegal now due to a stupid woolly haired liberal law last week ordering the party its got to recruit certain people albeit it violates the central tenet of what the party stands for. Compelling the BNP to recruit foreigners or black people into its ranks is a bit like compelling the Tory Party to recruit Marxists or Trotskyites!
As long as right wing policies fail with no left wing party to apply the pressure there will always be far right groups like the BNP around. The only way they can be dealt with is to take them on in programmes like Question Time so as to find out what their real economic and social policies are; health, defence, environment etc, apart from the easy populist issues like stopping immigration or castrating paedophiles!
The real issue therefore is not whether Nick Griffin should appear on Question Time but whether the likes of Jack Straw or any New Labour apologist has sufficient calibre to take the BNP on!
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I just heard Hain tell Paxman that Nick was illigal, a native Brit illigal in his own land, who would have thunk it!
It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.
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"I just heard Hain tell Paxman that Nick was illegal, a native Brit illegal in his own land, who would have thunk it!"
Hain's South African, isn't he?
Funny how Labours' answer to our social problems isn't to actually listen to people and address their concerns sensibly but to ignore people and then whine about it when people feel all is lost and go and vote on the fringe. The Labour answer is then to ban and/or change the laws to suit a programme of suppressing opposing and dissenting views (whilst bigging up freedoms of speech and so on, naturally). Anyone would think they are desperate to cling onto power at all costs - by fair means or foul.
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The BNP were also-rans in an election for a discredited quango from another land and have a bunch of councillors. I am not sure if they qualify to appear on Question Time or not. Having said that they certainly do have more reason to appear than the journos and celebs that nobody elected.
I don’t think the BBC should decide who appears nor do I think it should host or chair the programme. I would prefer to see this organised as a national meeting under the stewardship of the Speaker of the House of Commons and televised. Those that appear can be decided on a mathematical formula based on real votes cast from the most recent elections. I am not sure if election to a quango would qualify.
#13 Cheapjack
I agree with you that cultures mix. This has happened for countless centuries in this country despite that fact that we are made up of islands.
Surely the problem is not immigration but the rate of immigration. The rate that we have had over the past couple of decades has seriously damaged our culture and not enhanced it.
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Everyone is entitled to their point of view provided that it does not break the law, and people are entitled to disagree with it, which in Nick Griffins case, most people will. Peter Hain was previously sacked for dishonesty regarding his attempt to be elected as deputy prime minister. He has proved that he has no integrity and his objections to the BNP can only strengthen their position. Only the honest and the just have a right to object. Hain should not be in a government position. Only in the sewer which is New Labour could this happen, which is one reason why people are turning to extremist groups.
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Is it just me that's noticed that the people who talk most about banning or silencing or otherwise suppressing views they don't agree with are the same people who trumpet about our freedoms and traditions at every opportunity - particularly the freedom of speech and expression...?
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The BNP are a vile racist organisation and if in doubt look at the examples here of things their leader has said.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221880/BNP-leader-Nick-Griffin-A-bigot-damned-vile-words.html
His rants include:
'The ultimate aim for me and for the BNP still remains an all-white Britain.'
Asked what he would do with people living in Britain who couldn't be 'sent home' because their nationalities were not clear, he said: 'Drop them out of a plane somewhere over Africa. I don't really care.'
Does this sound like a sane person who should be given a platform by a public broadcaster. Shame on you BBC
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"His rants include:
'The ultimate aim for me and for the BNP still remains an all-white Britain.'"
Indeed - but, then the likes of Anjem Choudary go on the streets and in mosques and spout a similar brand of hate-filled rhetoric without let or hindrance from the authorities or otherwise. It was only a couple of months ago his group was in the press for stopping a public meeting to discuss something he didn't agree or approve of and only last week he was on the front page of the Express trying to antagonise the majority. No censure there, though...
If we want to stop the BNP, we have to stop the other extremist groups too, whether they are organised as political parties or not, or whether they have elected representatives or not.
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