How would the Tories change Britain?
They claim it's time for change. We want to know how you think a Tory Government would change Britain on the 5 live Phone-in at 9 this morning.
So far we've heard about Conservative plans to reduce incapacity benefit for more than half a million people, and plans to increase the the state pension age for millions of men from 65 to 66 from 2016 to help tackle the national debt. Will it work?
If the Conservatives take power in the next General Election will things get better or worse?
Will they drag us out of recession?
Who will be better off?
UPDATE:
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Podcast
5LNPI: Is it time for higher taxes for the rich? 09 Dec 09
10:16 Wed, 9 Dec 09
It's Alistair Darling's pre-Budget report today - the last before the general election. Sources say Mr Darling will speak of the case for fairer taxes. He's already announced increases in the top rate of tax and national insurance and it is possible there may be a further rise today. The government's expected to increase taxes on bankers today. But is it time to ask for more from all the wealthy?
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Cameron talks a good game and looks the part, but in my opinion, when you add his youth to the fact his party haven't governed in over a decade, how can he be the best person to lead the country, especially coming out of this recession?
The NHS is is a poor state and under the Tories it'll just get worse. And let's not forget their polish friends!
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If the Tories have really changed Cameron needs to apologise for Thatcher. I used to be a miner and I've seen the way the Tories have total disregard for lives of ordinary people.
The current financial crisis isn't of Gordon Brown's making [though I'm no fan of his]. It stems from the way the Tories destroyed the UK's industrial base in the 1980's, moving the economy towards reliance on emplyment in the financial sector.
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Lets get the ritual Labour apologists out of the way and look forward to a new administration
One that actually isn't burying its head in the sand about the huge problems in the public finances created entirely solely and deliberately by the current government
We got nothing last week except unfunded promises and dire warnings about the eviiiiiil torreees
Cameron needs to lay it on the line - the size of the task needs to be rammed home and then hammered in again and again
He has one or two budgets to get things on the right track - after that the media, his opponents and the public will be demanding results. I cannot see how he can make anything but a solid start in one parliament unless he is completely ruthless, at which point the vested interests, the public sector and Labopur's client stat will really start to squawk
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"If the Tories have really changed Cameron needs to apologise for Thatcher. I used to be a miner and I've seen the way the Tories have total disregard for lives of ordinary people."
Scargill called the strike without a national vote, what has Saint Maggie to apologise for?
DC will need all the skills of Saint Maggie and more, to sort out the current mess Labour has left us in again!
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Comedy is not dead - this morning is a hoot!
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Indeed, Haesten. Funny how the old guard conveniently forget the role of their union barons and the entrenched, out-dateed militancy therein in the demise of industry. Everybody out!
Someone on the moan-in just now was having a good rant about Cameron meaning a return to class politics, with the rich getting richer and the poor poorer. Yet the gap between rich and poor, I read recently, has actually widened under Labour.
The irony of him moaning about "class politics" was not lost on me when he mentioned Camerons education - because, let's face, it no-one in Labour went to a posh school, did they. I mean, Blair didn't go to Fettes followed by Oxbridge, Darling didn't go to Loretto and Harpic didn't go to St. Pauls. More like the politics of envy!
All I've heard so far is a load of Labour placemen ranting down the phone into the studio. Mind you, the coverage of the Tory conference is far less than that of Labour - you couldn't turn the radio on last week without hearing some programme or other being interrupted to bring us a Cabinet minister addressing the conference. What have we heard this week? A skewed "debate" and Camerons opening address and little else. It was the same with the Lib Dems the week before.
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That guy who was banging on about fox hunting just now? Sounds like a certain poster from the old messageboards. The only thing missing was a rant against Israel!
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I fear for my children's future and the dog eat dog Britain we will return to if the Tories get back into power. We are a middle class family who may be better off under the Tories but what about the Society that my children will have to live in? If people are left in poverty they will resort to desperate measures eg crime and we all ultimately suffer in a divided society as under Thatcher. The Tories are already showing that they hold true to their beliefs, as ever. Good that they are going to save money by rooting out the immoral fraudulent benefit claimants but why are they not rooting out the immoral fraudulent wealthy Tax evaders (Tories) - apparently we would raise far more money from them so why not do both? They are both defrauding the State but the Tories only want to tackle the poorer members in our Society and leave the rich alone (after all they deserve it don't they? They are morally superior to the rest of us as the Bankers have shown).
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Was that Kathy Burke on talking about her £750,000 family home and 93 year old mum?
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Msg 8 - I fear for my kids (although they are both adults) under any present political party. There is nobody who represents me and my views.
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I am sick and tired of listening to people say that they have no alternative to either Labour or Conservative government. One party is burnt out and the other is an empty shell. The Tories say they are going to be radical so what do they say - we will build more prisons! They have had 12 years to come up with something new and radical and that is all they can think of!
We bounce about between the two parties going in one direction for a decade and then in the other for the next decade. We go back and forth between the two going nowhere. The two parties give us the propaganda that we need strong government to push through decisions but what we get is a government who promise one thing, do another and we have no control over them for five years.
The major parties treat us like children. They think we cannot understand complex issues and we are not capable of thinking anything through. So, we get knee-jerk government where politicians overreact to news stories bringing in ill thought out policies which have all sorts of unwanted consequences. This is because their interest is in the polls and whether they can keep us all happy enough to elect them next time - not the long term good of the country.
Isn't it the time for consensus government? It works in other countries. We hear negative comments about, for instance, the German system where they never get a majority - as if that is bad. It doesn't seem to do them any harm!
Here's a radical thought! How about if we vote Lib Dem and go all out for a 'hung' parliament so we force our politicians to actually work with each other. I live in a town which is a 3-way marginal and that is what I will be doing. In a parliament where no one has the majority the politicians will have to listen to us during the 5 years of their parliament as well as for the few weeks before the election.
Let's start a campaign for consensus government.
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11. speedyslap wrote:
"...I am sick and tired of listening to people say that they have no alternative to either Labour or Conservative government..."
In the June poll Labour fell to third behind UKIP. It is demonstrably possible for the chuckle brothers to fall from grace. It's up to Joe Public. Has he the stomach for it? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/europe/2009/election_09/default.stm
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" I fear for my children's future and the dog eat dog Britain we will return to if the Tories get back into power. "
During the 'hated' Thatcher years there were no cuts in spending, the NHS spending actually grew, not that you would realise that listening to the lefts propaganda. In addition surprising as it may sound income growth actualy grew in Tory recessions, in fact grew faster than under Brown's boom years. During this miracle economic growth under Labour the poor got poorer, income growth at the bottom ground to a halt, (Ftse Directors salaries grew by 20-30 even 40%), people didn't move off state benefits, they parked 5 million people there, most of the new jobs went to immigrants.
So after a decade of Labour we have a more divided society, social classes have become more stratified, with precious little movement between them, and vast numbers of people have been left rotting on benefits.
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"If people are left in poverty they will resort to desperate measures eg crime "
Would we notice, given that crime appears to be rampant already, with the police ignoring the innocent to the point they immolate themselves but are available to protect the scum that harrassed them when the locals get wound up by the tabloids?
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If the Tories have really changed Cameron needs to apologise for Thatcher. I used to be a miner and I've seen the way the Tories have total disregard for lives of ordinary people.
The current financial crisis isn't of Gordon Brown's making [though I'm no fan of his]. It stems from the way the Tories destroyed the UK's industrial base in the 1980's, moving the economy towards reliance on emplyment in the financial sector.
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Complete and utter nonsense as usual from the "World owes me a living brigade"
You and your ilk should be apologising for the "3 read the paper one dig the hole mentality" that brought this country to it's knees the last time round.
My only concern is that Cameron will be half the PM that Thatcher was and will pussy foot around the tough decsions that will need to be made to save us from yet another Labour bankruptcy.
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2. stufromYorkshire wrote:
"...The current financial crisis isn't of Gordon Brown's making..."
The failed financial regulatory regime was all his.
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RobbieFiveFingers wrote:
If the Tories have really changed Cameron needs to apologise for Thatcher. I used to be a miner and I've seen the way the Tories have total disregard for lives of ordinary people.
The current financial crisis isn't of Gordon Brown's making [though I'm no fan of his]. It stems from the way the Tories destroyed the UK's industrial base in the 1980's, moving the economy towards reliance on emplyment in the financial sector.
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Complete and utter nonsense as usual from the "World owes me a living brigade"
You and your ilk should be apologising for the "3 read the paper one dig the hole mentality" that brought this country to it's knees the last time round.
My only concern is that Cameron will be half the PM that Thatcher was and will pussy foot around the tough decsions that will need to be made to save us from yet another Labour bankruptcy.
Refulgent old chap!
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September 2007, Gorgon addresses the City as Chancelliar of the Chequered History, expressing how good he was on the Economy.
Just days later he watched the disarray as Northern Dross went bust!
Now, the Gorgon wants to tax bonuses of his sated banks.
The NHS under Labbrrr, the PFI scandel that awaits our children
Pensions under Labrrr, after the Gorgon raided the Final Salries and forced those not working for him, to reture later, without addressing the Public Sector Pensions and allowing them to reitre at 50!
TIME FOR A CHANGE
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You forgot to mention how nicking everyone's pension sent them out to get on the "buy to let" ladder to give them an income in retirement, fuelling the unsustainable property boom.
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It all looks very dynamic, but they're just doing what I said they would do months ago on the five live board. They're just blaming the poor for everything and redistributing the wealth right from day one.
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This makes me sick -there is no difference between Labour & Tory. They just look after the rich, pander to the underclasses so that they don't wreck the fabric of society and crucify ordinary decent hardworking middle and working class Britons. Anyone still working at 65 will probably have paid over 40 years tax, yet they are the ones who have to pay to bale out extremely wealthy bankers and to provide free housing & benefits for those who have never contributed anything.The reason why we are against the Lisbon treaty is because all of the other European countries look after their ordinary citizens, and we simply do not want that scenario in Britain. Lets get rid of the British parliament and this super rich elite who rip everybody off, and be run fairly from Brussels. Gordon Brown has already destroyed everyones private pension, now the state pension is going witth it as well.This isn't a fit country for decent people to live in.
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vote for Hobson -New Labour the party who have destroyed Britain for all time, hated and despised by everyone, or the Tories, bereft of policies who havent a clue. This is giong to be a terrible country for decent people to live in for generations to come.
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Some of these things will help and the retirement age has to be raised to 66. As the average life expectancy rises the retirement age has to keep pace or it will become unaffordable. I can't say that I agree with the Conservatives ideology in any way, but something has be done. The country is in debt of over £800 billion and this has to be brought into control.
We will come out of he recession in the next parliament no matter who is in charge and anyone who is in will take the credit.
Oh and who will be better of. If we are under the tories then I am sure the rich will be better off. Let's just hope they bring the country along with them.
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JohnClement wrote:
vote for Hobson -New Labour the party who have destroyed Britain for all time, hated and despised by everyone, or the Tories, bereft of policies who havent a clue. This is giong to be a terrible country for decent people to live in for generations to come.
They'll get through on "inheritary voting " old chap - errrr......meaning the 70s Thatchers "right to buy estates."
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JohnClement wrote:
vote for Hobson -New Labour the party who have destroyed Britain for all time, hated and despised by everyone, or the Tories, bereft of policies who havent a clue. This is giong to be a terrible country for decent people to live in for generations to come.
They'll get through on"inheritary voting " on the sink estates old chap - errrr......meaning the 70s Thatchers "right to buy estates."
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Really? Doesn't sound like that to me.
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Whilst watching Ken Clarke - I remembered why I liked the Conservative Party. But how rare is Mr Clarke in todays Party? Ok. A fellow Europhobe but I mean - a glimpse of passion, compassion and goodness me - humour. Whilst watching him a News Flash came through about something absolutely nothing to do with the goings on in that Manchester venue - except - if certain Media outlets play fair politically - tomorrow there will allegedly be headlines starting something like "An increasingly beleaguered former star of East Enders and Mayor of..............." But of course - unless said outlets read this there - allegedly - wont be such headlines.
I sigh. I had forgottened Mr Clarkes chuckle. I think I will adopt it rather than the guffaw I currently use when I see "Plan Et's holiday" run pass me. I startled some poor woman this morning going into the library. "Shush!"
Laughing in Great Britain. Whatever next? Chuckle chuckle.
Maybe I wont adopt it. lol
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20. Cheapjack wrote:
"...redistributing the wealth right from day one..."
Whilst disagreeing with their policies I think it better they do afterwards what they committed to before election. Better this than a worthless vote grabbing, yet ultimately worthless, commitment to a referendum like Labour in 2005.
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All i get from the Tories is that they will cut spending on nearly everything, the ordinary people of the country are going to pay for the mistakes of the rich. Instead of looking at the obscene amount of money taken home by the very people who have created the current mess, us the ordinary people who bailed out the banks will continue to pay.
The Tories are simply protecting their true friends - the greedy fat cats
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29. chattroh boy wrote:
"…The Tories are simply protecting their true friends - the greedy fat cats…"
How many greedy fat cats can there be? Are there nearly enough to elect 325 MPs?
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Actually MarinSolitaire (post 3) The Tory opposition have been fully behind everything this New Labour government (Tory Mk2)have done (apart from trivial issues like foxhunting bans.
Without defending New Labour, the fact the public finances are in such a bad state today is because a Labour government has bailed out the Tory free enterprise system due o 30 odd years of unchallenged neoliberal policies the system went bankrupt. It's got nothing to do with a 'Labour' government in the context of which you write because the Tories whom you clearly vest much faith in naturally agreed with this bail out all along.
Many voters are now witnessing for the first time in twelve years the consequences of a Labour Government adopting these failed Tory economic policies. It just gives the official Tory Party the excuse to propose more Tory policies which will also fail as economic history has proved all along!
This also explains why the Tories can't be specific on main aspects of macro-economic policy because if they criticised New Labour they'd be kicking themselves in the foot.
The UK needs a radical political and economical alternative and unless there is one this forthcoming General Election will be a complete farce!
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Hello Shelagh, Nicky, Mickey etc. I tuned in accidently and forgot to switch over immediately. The Cresta car was a name I took against but loved the Princess.
Thought of the Moment:
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison, fourth US president (1751-1836
The Dark Arts? Why do they do that? A man allegedly with two brains used it about a Government Minister. To explain how he - Government Minister presumably gets away with occasionally besting personnel in the two brain man’s Party. No, no, no! I stole that line too.
Stop all that nonsense I thought listening to “FiveLive” personalities naming cars and NOT eating custard creams. Tell us the truth. If the Opposition have a point – admit to it. Do not “mug”. And a speaker at that Manchester venue – decided to look serious? To show gravitas perhaps? Well in my opinion it didn’t really work. Imagine the actor Art Malik’s voice.
“What do you think?”
The Dark Arts. I wonder why President Obama doesn’t call out the gainsayers who seem to snipe at him in isolation. Freedom of speech is one thing but accusing anyone of all sorts of patent nonsense – just for a sound bite? But as I keep saying – I do NOT understand America but I am very fond now of some of their citizens. They have been very kind to an old fool.
So I will visit my old sparring partners here from time to time and not tell Ms Fogarty what I am eating at all - albeit it if it is to be 'umbel pie! lol
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#31
Believe what you want - the encouragement of the city's risk takers, ineffectual regulation and public spending binge was entirely the policy of this government
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#32
You what...?
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JohnClement wrote: "New Labour the party who have destroyed Britain for all time"
Steady on old chap, I think the country's a bit more resilient than that!
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is because a Labour government has bailed out the Tory free enterprise system due o 30 odd years of unchallenged neoliberal policies the system went bankrupt.
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No it's not
The tories spent most of the 80s sorting out Labours bankrupty of 1979. They will be back with some more medicine to sort out Labour latest mess.
Then of course when the economy is back on track people will then vote back in the tax and wasters again.
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Robbie, you peddled this nonsense on the other board, and you continue to peddle it here.
The present economic crisis was caused by greed in America, and Gordon Brown has got us out of it and could get us out of debt by 2015, if he is re-elected. If the Conservatives get in, they could do something about the fact that people are overworked and underpaid now, that's why they binge-drink.
But that's communism, to you, of course, interfering and fettering greed.
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"Robbie, you peddled this nonsense on the other board, and you continue to peddle it here. "
Probably because it's not nonsense - Labour have a track-record of [censored] the economy and leaving some one else to bite the bullet in picking up all the largely unnecessary and avoidable pieces whilst pointing the finger and blaming the fixers for the problems Labour caused.
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31. Nick Vinehill wrote:
"....The Tory opposition have been fully behind everything this New Labour government (Tory Mk2)have done (apart from trivial issues like foxhunting bans..."
Presumably you think reneging on the EU Constitutional Treaty referendum was another 'trivial' issue.
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Actually rg (39);
Yes! As far as the punitive differences that exist between New Labour and the Tories are concerned the EU Constitutional Treaty is a trivial issue!
Despite all the traditional right wing banter about one nation, and national identity etc Britain reluctantly signed up to the Treaty of Rome in the 70's because it's capitalist rulers knew their economy couldn't go it alone. For the last 12 years the Tory opposition have just sat back throughout their period of opposition relying on an alleged 'Labour' government to take the flak over all the vacillations over whether a referendum is held over this Treaty which, is merely a set of rules and regulations to facilitate European big-business, banks and finance to mess the global economy up even more than now! The Treaty has nothing to do with a united Europe based on democratic principles.
Whilst the Tories may bluster in opposition over no referendum once in power they'd be the first to comply with the Treaty's demands.
Anyhow. All this sanctimonious waffle about whether we have a referendum on Europe to preserve our national democratic rights!
What about a referendum over issues here like:
a. Should taxpayers bail out capitalism;
b. Should rank and file members of HMF be allowed to criticise their military leaders particularly as the latter feel free to to criticise an elected government (as odious as it may be)?
c. Should we be in Afghanistan? Should we have a Monarchy and an unwritten constitution?
d. Should religion be taught in schools?
e. Should the Governor of Bank of England be elected
f. Should the electoral system be made more democratic...
and many more.
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40. Nick Vinehill
"…What about a referendum over issues here like…"
A good place to start would be the referendum on the EU Constitutional Treaty. A good place because it sits to this day in Labour's election winning 2005 manifesto. Honesty in politics isn't just about mock Tudor appendages added at our expense to the Deputy PM's home.
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"Yes! As far as the punitive differences that exist between New Labour and the Tories are concerned the EU Constitutional Treaty is a trivial issue!"
However, for the wider populace one suspects it is less trivial and more germane!
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Tempus:
Why did Gordon Brown get a World Statesman award, for saving the world from a depression, two weeks ago, if he is such a terrible economist?
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Probably because the people who decide such things are so far up their own backsides. It's a nice little club, you see.
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More likely that he saved the world from a depression, and the powers that be in this country want a Conservative government and have just about told the electorate so.
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Aren't these boards rubbish. Far better with the old MB, though the trouble was that around 80% of the posters were right of centre, anti mass immigration, anti multiculturalism, anti EU, the very things the BBC hate. Worst still many of those posters were erudite, no racist who could put up a good argument back with facts and links. That would never do on the BBC, even though in their charter they are supposed to reflect the opinions of the British people. Well the BBC can close down the message boards as they don't like the comment coming through, they can carry on with their lefty, multiculturalist, pro EU bias, but what they can't do is stop people voting for the political party of their choice.
Hence many will vote Tory, even if they are not natural Tories, just to get rid of this moribund Labour party and all they stand for.
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Hence many will vote Tory, even if they are not natural Tories, just to get rid of this moribund Labour party and all they stand for.
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The Tories are the lesser of the two evils.
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Saved the world?? Cobblers!!
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Time to start flooding Cammys inbox with protests about the licence fee - it's up for review in 2012.
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Fascinating. We give the banks hundreds of billions of pounds and the way to save money is now to cut the incapacity benefits of people too ill to work and make the rest of us work until we drop.
When the banks want more of our money, I supposed we'll have to start selling out kidneys. Why is it that we can find the money for greedy bankers but not sick or elderly people?
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50. StevenJMUK wrote:
"…Why is it that we can find the money for greedy bankers but not sick or elderly people?.."
This is what happens when you elect a Scottish Labour PM and The Royal Bank of Scotland, Halifax Bank of Scotland, Northern Rock and Bradford & Bingley are caught with their pin stripe pants down.
Who set up the financial regulatory regime here; must have been a duffer.
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48. Tempus Fugit wrote:
"…Saved the world?? Cobblers!!."
Where are the international offers to temp the saviour from our bosom?
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