How widespread is the use of racist language in our society?
Bruce Forsyth says we need to get a sense of humour, that using the P-word is no worse than the Americans calling the Brits "Limeys" - and that we should keep things in perspective.
- BBC News: Forsyth says 'Du Beke was wrong'
On the phone in from 9am this morning we want to know how widespread is the use of these words in our society?
We all know what they are - the N-word, the P-word - so do you use them? Do your friends and neighbours use them?
Do you hear them? And if you do hear someone say the P-word or the N-word do you say anything?
Are we a nation of hypocrites, expressing our disgust when those in the media or the public eye use these words, if we choose to say nothing when we hear them or even use them ourselves?
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It would be very nice if everyone had respect for each other, and in private used as respectful a term about someone as they would in public.
Unfortunately this row has developed in to an important point we should all think about very seriously. I keep hearing it is OK for someone to use the N word or the P word if they are Black or if they are from Pakistan, but that they do not want other people who are not Black or Pakistani to use those words. I seriously think they should stop using the words too, tell the world they are unacceptable to everyone of any race, creed or colour, then this row could stop and a rule could be made that says if the words are used and offend the law will become involved.
I heard Victoria call Leila Rouass "Leila Whatsherface" on air yesterday. A bit of fun but I bet there are some who would say as a BBC employee she should have made the effort to be more respectful. Therein lies the problem. One man's meat etc.
Draw the line now. Any more race related slang and the person is out. As Du Beke apologised I guess Leila accepted, although she hasn't said anything at all about the incident apart from telling someone about it in the first place.
I would like to hear what she has to say now that it has become such a full on news story. Or maybe that suits the publicity machine a little bit. Go to law!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Unfortunately it is widespread but for leading radio programmes to always find an excuse to discuss the issue or anything involving race or gender on 'phone-in' programmes simply exacerbates the problem because it fails to investigate the true roots of racism and xenophobia. Even before listening to it's quite obviously going to be a meaningless slanging match between the politically correct and anti-politically correct!
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Is this what most people in the country are concerned about? I should imagine the majority don't give a monkeys about this. Come on Beeb you can do better than stirring this into something it's not.
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The BBC is happy to use the word 'Little Englander' which is meant to be derogatory and demeaning, which fulfils all the requirements of being racist.
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Well said MSg 3 - slanging match it has become and a boring one at that.
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tell you what msg3 and 6 dig a hole in the ground and put your head in it and it might go away. i use the N and P word to describe people affilated with gangs and who alk around with a chip on both shoulders that feel the world owes them something cause their in the minority .... its all about contects how any word is used
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Hi, This P word and N word debate is surely ludicrous.....
I went to Australia in the 60's and was instantly called a POMME "B" (ASTARD) .... BUT.... and its a big but and relevant in todays debate...... it was said with a humorous intonation in the voice. Now if you want to get offensive then an abbreviation such as this REALLY could hurt because it stands for PRISONER OF MOTHER ENGLAND. Surely much more offensive than Paki... which is short hand for PAKISTANI, as is YANK/SEPTIC for Americans, FROG for the French, Roast BEEF's or LIMEYS for Brits ETC ETC. What about the Russian's getting upset at being referred to as "RUSKI's"
This debate about a word is nonsense... the debate should be about CONTEXT and joining words together.... and the intonation in the voice when spoken. I did hear Anton speak his piece, but I'll be pretty certain he said it in jest and with his tongue in his cheek.
Wake up Britain, there are too many other things wrong in this world to worry about such trivia as a one word.
Lets start a debate about politicians and all the lies they tell to get POWER.... much more meaningful.... yes or no?
Cheers, ZolaGola25
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I think the word you are looking for is CONTEXT.
And I agree with you - it is all to do with context.
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zelda thank you for the correction spelling is not my strong suit... on this im from ireland and ive been on the end of a paddy bashing before only once and i dont doubt that this country has always had a racist undertone in it. tis in decline but it always raises its head when people need someone to blame for their life being hard ie polish brickies and the like... im off to work in a bit have a great weekend i look forward to a lively debate on this topic... have fun
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You have a nice weekend too Kevosullivan. I shall look forward to correcting you and your spelling in future!(tongue in cheek smiley)
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I think the fact that words are made such a taboo these days is ridiculous - this is what makes them considered to be so offensive in the first place - when by themselves they have no meaning. Should a single word alone be given the power to be so shocking? If people used them day-to-day they would just become like any other descriptive word.
We're all about equality these days and as a white Briton i can't think of a racial offensive word that would be considered on par with "paki" - is that equality? Would Laila have been kicked off the show for calling Anton a "brit" or "white" - of course, that's not the same is it?
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What is it with the PC brigade, Pakistani,Asian, Black and general minority groups in this country. Get over yourselves people and recognise you live in a country predominantly made up of white Heterosexuals who are basically christian in religious faith and have one of the best senses of humour and civil rights records of any nation of earth. Yes we get it wrong from time to time and yes a percentage of our fellow citizens are racist thugs but the vast majority are not. A comment using the P word is not in itself racist or derogatory, it is the context of it's use that makes it so. Gnerally speaking it is used as a discriptive term to paint a picture of the character or situation being spoken about, it is a graphic way to tell a tale or pass comment, nothing more nothing less. It is a fact of life most Asian women cannot drive properly and there are no black Olympic gold medal swimmers or world class Pakistani rally drivers. Equally, there is no longer a white 100m runner who can touch black runners or white street dancers who can hold a candle to a black kid from Harlem. Is that racist or insulting to state those facts or use the term black? I fully accept many in these minority groups take offence at such words but that is your problem, not that of the vast majority of the rest rest of us who are not offended at being called a tight Jock, miserable Taffy, thieving Scouser, cocky Cockney, brash Aussie, big mouthed Yank, smelly Frog or cowardly Spick. If such terms were used as an insult then of course they are offensive and on occassion racist but to refer to someone who's perhaps overdone the tanning lotion as looking like a Pakistani is not at all racist, it's purely descriptive of a situation. Lighten up folks and understand Stephen Lawrence was indeed murdered by racists but a comment about tanning cream is a guys idea of well intentioned innocent humour. Why should the vast majority in this country be made to feel guilty about using the P or N words or refer to gays, hoodies, single mums and scoungers on benefit if its done so in context as opposed to insult.
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mkgrazza wrote:
What is it with the PC brigade, Pakistani,Asian, Black and general minority groups in this country. Get over yourselves people and recognise you live in a country predominantly made up of white Heterosexuals who are basically christian in religious faith and have one of the best senses of humour and civil rights records of any nation of earth. Yes we get it wrong from time to time and yes a percentage of our fellow citizens are racist thugs but the vast majority are not. A comment using the P word is not in itself racist or derogatory, it is the context of it's use that makes it so. Gnerally speaking it is used as a discriptive term to paint a picture of the character or situation being spoken about, it is a graphic way to tell a tale or pass comment, nothing more nothing less. It is a fact of life most Asian women cannot drive properly and there are no black Olympic gold medal swimmers or world class Pakistani rally drivers. Equally, there is no longer a white 100m runner who can touch black runners or white street dancers who can hold a candle to a black kid from Harlem. Is that racist or insulting to state those facts or use the term black? I fully accept many in these minority groups take offence at such words but that is your problem, not that of the vast majority of the rest rest of us who are not offended at being called a tight Jock, miserable Taffy, thieving Scouser, cocky Cockney, brash Aussie, big mouthed Yank, smelly Frog or cowardly Spick. If such terms were used as an insult then of course they are offensive and on occassion racist but to refer to someone who's perhaps overdone the tanning lotion as looking like a Pakistani is not at all racist, it's purely descriptive of a situation. Lighten up folks and understand Stephen Lawrence was indeed murdered by racists but a comment about tanning cream is a guys idea of well intentioned innocent humour. Why should the vast majority in this country be made to feel guilty about using the P or N words or refer to gays, hoodies, single mums and scoungers on benefit if its done so in context as opposed to insult.
Errr....It only becomes a Public Order Offence (Racially Agravated) if/when.
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he—
(a)" uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour," or
(b) distributes or displays to another person any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,
with intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person, etc, etc.
Bruce - Was/Is Right! Like Thatcher - The Body count (complaints) only started to rise because of the publicity. I think it was around five before the media kicked in
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"I think the word you are looking for is CONTEXT.
And I agree with you - it is all to do with context."
the historical context is that the p word is used as a word of abuse, as racist .
should holocaust denial have a context and thereby be justified?
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"I think the fact that words are made such a taboo these days is ridiculous - this is what makes them considered to be so offensive in the first place - when by themselves they have no meaning"
unfortunately the p word set alone does have meaning. that meaning is demeaning and abusive.
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"but a comment about tanning cream is a guys idea of well intentioned innocent humour"
clearly youve missed the issue. calling her p was not a term of endearment and she understood it quite clearly to be offensive. the comment was meant to be derogatory dressed up as 'humor'.
"What is it with the PC brigade,"
what is it with bigots , racists et al not understanding that people wish to be respected and have dignity.
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"Errr....It only becomes a Public Order Offence (Racially Agravated) if/when."
she did find it insulting and abusive thats why she walked out.
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nadeem some 30 plus minutes into the show was about to make a very valid point about world war 2 and the nature of the abuse towards jewish people, but nicky jumped in to save the day.
aki was given short time to make his very strong contribution.
cant help but wonder why the bbc seems to be courting the extreme right . the p word , muslims, i suppose can be abused, denigrated it would appear , sanctioned and condoned through a mere apology.
would there really be a discussion if it had been directed at the jewish community, anti semitism, would an apology really have sufficed.
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"I heard Victoria call Leila Rouass "Leila Whatsherface" on air yesterday"
i think vickys opinions are somewhat suspect at times.
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On the show the Scottish chap referring to the corner shop spoke well.
It’s just another four letter word that the indigenous populations have grown up with (and is therefore ‘ours’). I still possess a large quality dictionary that I used during my student years, all these ‘naughty word’ are in there; part of my language, part of my culture.
Then people come from outside supposedly to share this culture, only once here, to demand we acquiesce to their requirements and those of their offspring.
We go to work in the public sector, where being white and indigenous is a huge disadvantage, and live a schizophrenic existence, hanging on to our perceptions and culture, but in an environment where a naughty word slipping out can earn you the sack and take your family’s livelihood away.
Not a way to foster an integrated society.
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I thought the blogs were going to be for serious discussion, but now the Editors in Chief use it to portray cross media advertising of some decrepit dance club.
Thank god I will be locked in the bar, cursing obscenities at my half baked potato instead of being glued to the oggle box
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I am aware mostly what I say - especially expletives and can control mostly when I say it. The sexist epithets excepted - "lass, love" for example. But I try even there if told off.
I mentioned I encountered the word currently under debate - Strictly - recently and took no notice except I did. Notice it - because speaker was there 4 or 5 feet away with one who may be offended in full view and yet he turned not a hair.
What really upsets me is what the Media decide to be offended by and then the hue and cry as they allegedly go after someone. What can be apologised for - and was in this case - is ignored with a Nationwide "HOW DARE THEY!" from the biggest offenders to sensibilities in the country in my opinion. The Media. Because they do it so insidiously -with allegedly slanted news.
The late Jade Goody, Carol Thatcher and now Anton Du Beke.
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I'm not certain that we should have a 'right' not to be offended by anyone.
Of course if it is a sustained verbal attack on one individual this would fall into law. But one word, once?
I live by "sticks and stones will break my bones but words (names) will never hurt me".
Should we not be individually responsible for our own sensitivities?
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