What language is acceptable at work?
Carol Thatcher's being criticised for comparing a tennis player to a golliwog.
She's apologised, saying she wasn't being racist and that it was a meant as a joke. But she's still being dropped from her job on the BBC's One Show.
Her remark wasn't broadcast - it was a private conversation to colleagues - so should she have been punished? When should a private conversation become public property? And what language is and isn't acceptable at work?
We heard plenty of views on the Phone-in. You can call listen again via the i-player or download the podcast.
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~06~RS~)
Comments
It’s about proportion
Prince Harry received a sever dressing down
Jonathan Ross a three-month suspension
Carol Thatcher the sack
Yes she should have be reprimanded but the sack's a bit too much.
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Who reported Carol's comment anyway? Are we living in a communist state where friends and neighbours report you for making remarks in jest? I had a Golliwog doll and collected Robinson's badges when I was a little girl. They were a thing of beauty then. Who made the word 'Golliwog' racist? Get a life!!!! Bring back Carol!!!
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A private comment should have been dealt with privately. I am appalled that BBC colleagues could have "snitched" on Carol Thatcher's private remarks (I use a juvenile word to describe juvenile behaviour). If they did not have the guts to say to her that they were offended, then they are cowards. Anyway, what happened to the verbal warning followed by the written warning normally required of employers? Maybe she is the victim of ageism - someone who was brought up with much more offensive words such as the n- word used to describe the brown colour of a man's suit cloth may well forget the oversensitivity of the namby-pamby generation she was working with. We are fast becoming a nation obsessed by words rather than actions and intentions, and I find the actions of these small minded BBC employees and bosses much more offensive.
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If Carol Thatcher is being reprimanded and removed for being allegedly ‘racist’ by using the word ‘golliwog’ – then I hope that anyone in the BBC using – ‘GOD’ – ‘OH MY GOD’ – ‘CHRIST’ – and, ‘OH CHRIST’ - as explitives - will receive similar consequences - as this is blatantly blasphemous.
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I love Carol Thatcher she is a breath of fresh air whenever she is on the TV. I am appalled that she has been sacked in this way despite the BBC allowing the most filthy language from Ross & his ilk. Talk about double standards!
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This is ridiculous! It's only an offensive word if used in such a context that could be seen as offensive.
Carol Thatcher has a 'private' conversation and this should have been dealt with privately - and she gets the sack.
Jonathan Ross made public abusive comments on a radio show and got a 3 month suspension.
Come on the BBC sort out your standards and treat everyone the same.
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I cant say i have ever seen the one show or even knew Carol thatcher was on it but on the face of it there is only one way to describe what's happened to here and its the word pathetic. The Golliwog was a symbol of a Jam company and a toy from what I remember. The real question is who 'told on her' as a 5 year old would and more over who took that 'telling' and escalated it to an effective sacking.
Yet another instance of political correctness gone mad.
Not to mention the very worst part in all this - that it was a private conversation. Who do these people think they are !! The thought police.
Here's a thought for you 5 live, I along with the rest of the nation I pay for that person who sacked carol, so lets have a poll on their job, cast by the people paying their wages( ie the public) and see how long they last.
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Carol is brilliant on the program. A breath of fresh air when compared to her smug and self righteous colleagues. I will not be watching the One Show again-Adrian's smirking face takes on a whole new meaning.
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I am in my late 4o's and had a much loved golliwog toy as a child and collected tokens for golliwog badges from jam jars .
While I quite accept it is now not acceptable to refer to a black person in this way , surely it is not inherently racist to use the descriptive term about someone's hairstyle .It's not at all the same as using the N word .
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I look forward to Prince Charles and Prince Harry being banned from the BBC forthwith, the phrase Ah, our little Paki Friend Ahmed (a Captain in the Pakistani Army) and Prince Charles referring to an Asian acquaintance as 'Sooty' are in both cases racist, patronising and condescending but are defended by the same people who would ban Carol Thatcher from the airways.
I have no view on Carol Thatcher or the program which I have never listened to but talk about double standards!! My oh my.
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BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU!!!
I have no doubt that any guest on the One Show will now be very nervous about what they say to ANYBODY on that set!
I have always enjoyed the show - but will certainly not be watching again. If the reports in the papers that Adrian was the perbertrator of the 'telling tales' syndrome - I am very disappointed in him. Who does he think he is? Has he never shouted a derogatory remark at some footballer or ref from the terraces? perhaps he'd better watch who he is sitting near in the stands!
What is this country coming to?
PS. Think before you open your mouths today - you might get the sack!!
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Of course she should NOT have been sacked! I'm livid about this.
BBC has double standards. The Russell Brand/Ross debacle shows that. I'd not pay the licence fee, apart from you have to - by law - which I totally disagree with.
This was a comment of descriptive hair style of a player, made in a light hearted manner.
Are the BBC going to SACK ALL THE RADIO 5 NEWS PRESENTERS who have been saying GOLLIWOG every few minutes this morning!!! No of course not.
If Adrian Chiles dropped her in it, I won't be watching that half of the screen any more, just the lovely Christine Bleakley!
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I support the sacking of Carol Thatcher.
The fact that she made the comment at all, regardless of who was listening, exposes her frivolous views on the issue of race. I am saddened that so many of your listeners seem to support the hypocrisy of the situation. I am just as concerned by her private views as her public pronouncements.
She should not be employed by the BBC and I would like to believe that the great majority of your listeners would think the same.
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The problem is the ethnic minorities are over represented in BBC presenters.
Consider Music of Black Origin? acceptable. I have yet to understand that. The Asian network, Why????
No music of european origin? No irish network? No Polish network?
They are afraid of that man of African or west Indian decent at the office of racial equality who is decidely anti-white (at least in public).
Goverment figures show only 10% of the population are immigrants, yet 40% of londoners are of foriegn extraction.
It is about time we closed the doors for immigrants/foriegn workers and do a stock check before voters go BNP and get us in deeper trouble.
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I am the same age as Carol Thatcher. When I was a child a Golliwog was a cute and cuddly toy. In fact I didn't even know until years later that it represented a black person. I still don't see that that the toy itself is offensive. All this political correctness and perceived offence has now left me in a situation where I am nervous of having a conversation with any one who is - and now I don't even know the correct term to use without causing further offense - from a black minority - in case I say the wrong thing. I even find myself inwardly debating whether it is still ok to ask my mum's black carers for a cup of balck coffee or should I ask for one with no milk. It's a shame really because once I would have chatted to anybody regardless of where they came from - now I'm not so confident just in case I'm not fully up to date with the latest cause of offence.
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I think it's a good thing that Carol Thatcher has been sacked. My daughter's first week at university was ruined by boys running behind her shouting the G word. Its ok for people who have no experience of this kind of thing. How would you like it if it happened to you or your family. Its latent racisim ,what does marmalade or jam have to do with Africa or black people oranges come from Spain it was ignorant representation in the first place.
By the way we are Italian/middle eastern family and have lived in the uk for 50years.
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How ridiculous and a complete outrage that Carol Thatcher is sacked over a private comment and using a word in a context that was not racially intended. I do not find the word Gollywog offensive, my sisters had Golliwog dolls as children for Gods sake. I as a child, along with my friends of mixed race [black and indian] used to collect Gollywog badges. The politically correct brigade hijacked this word and made it offensive, as they have done with so many other inoffensive words. A word is only offensive if it is used, and meant, in an offensive way. I find Adrian Chiles reaction to Carol Thatchers use of the word offensive, as do a lot of my aquaintances, therefore, based on the BBC action of sacking Carol for being offensive, please sack Chiles [and how pathetic is he?]. Also, how can the BBC sack Carol over a private matter, which millions of people will not find offensive and yet still employ that crude, talentless, obnoxious and offensive Joathon Ross. I will no longer be watching the one show. One final question, when will somebody finally stand up for the vast majority of the British people and tell the politically correct idiots to shut up and get a dose of common sense.
Ian Prior
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I think we're missing the point on this issue. Carole and Harry are perfectly entitled to use any term they wish in the privacy of their own space, but as high-profile figures we surely cannot condone their use of terms such as 'goliwog' and 'packie' in a public place as the message this sends out to all is that these terms are socially acceptable. It's right that they have been picked up on this (although there are double-standards here with Carol getting the sack and Harry getting a slap on the wrist if that!). If we're really honest none of us feel comfortable hearing those words in public, whether your black or white. Let's not got back 30 years, i'd really like to think we've moved on from that.
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One rule for Ross and another for Carol as usual no one from the BBC wants to argue this. Nicky only want to talk about talking in private. BBC rules for BBC friends.
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God Bless Carol! She's a breath of fresh air in this stifling PC atmosphere. Welcome to Stasi Britain where private remarks are reported and punished.
By the way who was this "retired male tennis player", Yannick Noah maybe? Let's have his views.
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As far as I am aware a 'GOLLIWOG' is and was a child's doll and a badge that used to be available when puchasing jam. It was never designed or considered to be offensive to anyone.
If someone arrives to work with messy hair and clothes it would be perfectly acceptable in our society and the BBC to describe them as looking like WORSEL GUMMIDGE.
Can the person at the BBC who sacked Carol Thatcher explain the difference?
I would be very surprised if the BBC were not on ver shaky legal ground on this one.
I personally like and admire Carol Thatcher and enjoy watching her on TV.
This is not a sacking offence. The management at the BBC weants to get it's own house in order. Why is the blatantly offensive and vulgar Jonathon Ross still on our screens? I can only guess he had a tighter contract that Carol Thatcher and it would have cost too much to get rid of him.
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I cannot believe this heavy handed approach. There appeared nothing malicious about Carol's comment in my view, and it was not broadcast. Surely a reprimand would have solved the problem, if it was considered a problem.
I enjoy Carol's quirky contributions to the One Show. I do not enjoy Jonathon Ross's programmes which I consider distasteful, so I wont watch them at all now. I expect a certqain level of decency and above all fairness
Please BBC, get your house in order and deal with Carol fairly and please find a way to reduce the levels of smut you seem to condone.
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Do I watch Jonathan Ross - no! Do I watch Carol Thatcher - again no! I am, if nothing else, consistent. However - the way the BBC have reacted to Ms Thatcher's private utterances is totally disproportionate when considering the 'light handed fashion' in which they rebuked Mr Ross. Mr Chiles may have been 'outraged' but the remark was not uttered in a public place, was not recorded and was not broadcast and yet Ms Thatcher's future is now 'in doubt'. Mr Ross not only recorded his remarks but they were broadcast and his career (quite how valuable it is to the British public is decidedly questionable) just took a break for 3 months. Whilst I don't consider Ms Thatcher to be a great benefit to anyone - her treatment by the BBC is appalling.
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I for one will not be watching the one show again. It is scary to think whats really going on out there.
A private conversation shoud remain just that. We should know who was offended and give Carol chance to defend herself. Own up the snitcher!
Back to Emmerdale tonight!
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This is the UNITED KINGDOM and the english,british,scottish.irish are once again being blasted for a remark made in private.It has been allowed to be used for certain parties to moan and complain about what they dont like.When are the real brits going to be given the chance to air their veiws.I am sick to think that the BBC has allowed this to happen.IT is the BRITISH BROADCASTING SERVICE
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I Like others are totaly dissapointed by the BBC and their double standards and ways that they go about their business.
how many complaints did they have about 'Johnathan Wass' and they 'Suspend Him' for three months. Now we hear that Carol Thatcher, one of the 'Nicer People' that we see and hear, sacked because she used the word 'Golliwog' off air. When are the BBC going to understand about life outside the office, and get RID of the People who really upset most if not all the people and get back to being the "Best in the world" and admired by all rather than being the laughing stock of the world..
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I totally agree with davbod, for goodness sake the whole issue is ridiculous. My Asian neighbour refers to me as White Trash... haha....I really dont care , I am proud to be white and British and really dont care what people call me .Plus my brother still has the Golliwog that we played with as children, we loved him because he was cuddly and was smiling!! PS I have very frizzy curly hair and dont mind if people call me a golliwog coz sometimes I do look like one!!
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Is this the first case of "passive offending"?
I thought the "Thatcher appeal" (a complete mystery to me, I must add) was all about her somewhat out-of-time eccentricity? The fact that she should use the "gollywog" word seems perfectly in character, for someone who presents herself as a somewhat run-down dowager/jester. (Offence caused? I will dismiss myself immediately after this message)
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I had a Golly as a kid, that did not make me a racist. Are Barbie dolls not equally as offensive. This is ridiculous, some people seem to set out to be offended!
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If she made the comment about Andrew Murray's hair then I see no harm- It would have been distasteful had she made the same comment about a black player's hair- It is pretty silly really- I was surprised to see actual dolls- ie real stuffed 'golliwogs' for sale in a local Post Office - Arn't they illegal? I asked myself- I don't know-are they any worse than ghastly 'Barbies' or even worse-the 'Bratz'?But I think the BBC thought police are over-reacting by sacking Carol Thatcher- The One Show- like J. Ross's show are absolutely ghastly anyway and I never watch them; same with the Strictly Come Dancing programme- Horrible colours- stupifying content, embarrassing frenetic loose cannons shootingtheir mouths off- afraid to say anything they might actually think...
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This is political correctness gone mad. Of course we have to be sensible about other people and the equality of all. However everyone could take offence to something - all of the time.
For example the lady who spoke on the radio who had forgotten Harry Enfields name. She spoke about consequences and being careful and yet she repeatedly used the lord's name in vain by saying God several times. As a Catholic I feel that this is extremely offensive and is used in BBc programmes all the time. Disgraceful and especially by someone trying to tell us that we should not use offensive comments even in private conversations
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why oh why are we even entertaining this ..a private conversation,a person with a grudge jumped on a comment and used it like a stick.
what is racist here is the fact that that person used this very important argument to have a go at someone else, and the bbc cant see this.
and now we have all the anti racsisium bodies jumping on this and lets be honest its such an inflamatory subject it doesnt take much.
the man who sugests we are living in a bygone age should realise the percentage of older people that live in this country,yes it can be used as a racist term but you have to look at the context it was meant.
there are so many other issues out there, do we really have time to worry about 2 people who dont get on,im sure there are plenty of occasions in our lives that we all say something we dont mean.
there are to many people out there who put themselves in the victom catorgory (and appear to be ringing up this morning)
this is about context not racisium
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The sad thing about all this is the fact that as the 'Political Correctness' - Health and Safety Police - etc etc are forced upon us we become MORE intolerant and not less. As someone who prided herself on being completely non racist I (and I have to say many many people I speak to) find myself having far LESS sympathy for minorities. If one has pride in oneself ( whether fat, black, blonde, disabled, thick, Irish, too smart, clumsy, permanently broke (me!), always late (me again), gay (me again!) then surely it beholds you to rise above comments, believe in yourself and GET ON WITH LIVING.
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The professional Offence takers are out in force.
There was just a chap on 5 Live from "Operation Black Vote", How would he like it if there was "Operation White Vote". How about "The Black Police Officer's Association". How would they feel if there was a "White Police Officer's Association".
It seems to me, and I am sure many others, that there are extreme double standards.
If you want to mobilise the black vote what is wrong with mobilising the white vote.
Do white people not have a vote?
Animal Farm at work All people are equal but some are more equal than others.
People are using this for their own political and racist motives. And I use the term Racist as anti-white for there are an awful lot of people who hate white people and use any stick they can find to beat them with.
Oh and I am of mixed-race, my father was Burmese. Coming from that background many of the most offensive comments I have ever seen or heard came from within the black / asian community. About each other and about the white community. But it's OK for that element to say what they like.
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Carol gets sacked, Woss gets suspended.
The BBC seems to have a problem with judgment. Whoever snitched on Carol will snitch on anyone, so be careful what you say folks, you could be next.
Perhaps the people 'in charge' at the BBC are very young or very stupid - possibly both. Scary when it's o.k. to offend an entire gender, but not o.k. to offend a DOLL.
It's almost funny, except for the fact that someones livelihood has been damaged.
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Having listened to your programme this morning has convinced me to vote BNP at any future election. I would never deliberately insult anyone but I feel we have reached the stage where white people cannot do anything without critiscism and penalties.
I also feel that the presenter bent over backwards to please those who condemned Carol Thatcher.
rosie1444
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Serial whinging Daily-Mail readers wonder why the BBC is being over careful with all matters that could be deemed "offensive".
All this after the paper manufactured hysteria over the Ross/Brand incident.
You reap what you sow.
(Bleating shortsighted hypocrites taking up far too much air time on R5L yet again.)
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The law of "Unintended Consequences" runs at the heart of left-wing politics.
It seems to me that yes, the politically motivated classes want to help ethnic minorities, but only about half as much as they want to bash white Britains.
They really don't think things through, this type of nonsense will only polarise opinion.
Maybe that is what they want as it will strengthen their power base.
This type of thing will not help ethnic minorities one little bit whether of British extraction or not.
But as I say I am not sure the agitators of "Operation Black Vote" really give a monkey's about the ethnic minorities in the UK. They will have their own ends. More divisiveness, creates more "perceived victims" and therefore more powers.
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That it is offensive is not really the issue.
People offend each other all the time every day in their workplaces up and down the country. Its not acceptable behavior (as i say to my 2 year old), but its the consequence of working with other people.
To have gotten sacked for it makes the BBC appear to be a bit of a Starlinist organisation - that something you say in private can result in your dismissal because it was overheard by a 3rd party. Be careful what you say in the corridor!
At best it should have resulted in a confrontation. Carol could have then apologised for what she said. Bruised egos heal in time.
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Carol Thatcher shouldn't have said it in 2009 although the Golliwog was an accepted trade mark during the 60's. Please can we have a sense of proportion. Jonathon Ross can offend me on air with the approval of the BBC and when the public complain he is suspended for 3 months. Thatcher has lost her job for a word said in a private conversation!
I hear and see racism and foul language on our streets every day of the week (particularly yesterday when the schools were closed) yet no one complains and I wonder why? Perhaps the fact that Carol Thatcher is the daughter of an ex Tory prime minister may play a part in all this and just maybe the clear left wing bias of the BBC may be involved some where as the coverage is disproportionate.
Please get back to more serious matters.
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Talking about golliwogs and Carol Thatcher's fate, I was pressed to mention a comment made by CJ on the Eggheads BBC 2 last night. A question was asked, linked to a woman's name, whether she was a photographer, dancer or sculptor. CJ's reply was along the lines of: she couldn't be a photographer because photography and cameras are to technically difficult for women, and she couldn't be a sculptor because moving stone (or whatever material) and chipping into it was impossible for woman. His disparaging comment about women had the opposition visitors (all men) shaking their heads in despair. Should he be allowed to get away with this on air if you can't get away with a comment in an off-air environment?
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Heard the furore over Thatcher this morning.
Heard a few people with the usual 'in the real world' 'in factories' rubbish.
For their information most decent workplaces,including factories, have 'Dignity Policies' these days and racist comments are not tolerated.
I worked for 17 years 'in the real world' of a factory and was well aware of what was acceptable and unacceptable.
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It's time that the licence paying public made a stand aginst this out of control monster called the BBC.
Common sense has gone out of the window, vile language and sexual innuendo is permitted AND highly paid. Yet an innocuous comment said privately warrants dismissal.
There is only one way to make the BBC wake up, TURN IT OFF! Especially the ONE SHOW.
Enough is enough, remember the blasphemous
'Jerry Springer, the Opera', thousands complained and the BBC turned a blind eye!
Now this, the loss of a talented breath of fresh air from a popular BBC TV show, for what?
Make your feelings known, Just turn it off folks.
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so someone evesdropping on a private conversation then complaining about what they heard the victim is sacked, and yet it's perfectly alright to incite people to commit a criminal offence on air,.
why is a private conversation a sackable offence but jo brands on air outburst is considered acceptable? what does this say about the bbc's politicaly correct attitude when something said in private could be considered offensive to black people they treat it like a hanging offence yet someone suggesting attacking the homes and families of white people on air is just fine.
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Some people could think that being called a Thatcherite is offensive.
The One show is a good program but this stupid
I presume the comment was about air style and I agree
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I am wondering if I was hearing things on BBC 2 on Monday night. A new dectective serial called, "Moses Jones", showed a white superviser reprimanding a black toilet attendant for talking to two of his black friends whilst on duty. I am almost certain I heard the supervisor refer to the three black men as "monkeys". He quickly regretted this remark as his head was unceremoniously rammed down a toilet seat.
Now, firstly, how did the politically correct BBC allow this remark to pass the censors, and also why did they condone such a reaction from the "offended"? comparatively the Carol Thatcher remark "pales" into insignificance.
I think that if the BBC wants to be show that it cares about raciality and bigotry it should make sure it looks at all aspects of their productions.
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If the informer had one once of decency, they would come forward and stick their head above the parapet.
The biggest surprise to me is that Carol Thatcher chose to get involves with such trite rubbish in the first place.
The One Show...............more like Nationwide-lite.
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Carol Thatcher the sack? Comment made of air. Jonathan Ross reinstated - vile comment made on air. BBC no credibility.
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I have listened to 5live for many, many years and have enjoyed the overall themes, information and programmes. Today 5 have listened to the "Carolgate" discussion and fined myself reflecting on another issue that underminds our capacity to live together in peace and harmony.
For those of you who feel that it's Ok to use the term just stop and think for minute about what your saying. Despite people telling you that they find this term offensive you continue to argue that it's OK to use the term. If it looks like a door then it's a door!
For those of you that think it is an offensive term think about those people who have come from a time when this type of language was acceptable. It's really difficult to make the journey and not everyone makes it.
What is indisputable is that the BBC like many organisations have rules and regulations governing the behaviour of their employees. The way they deal with "offenders" is down to their HR team and the interpretation of their rules.
Problems often present themselves when what people say to your face is different to what people say "amongst friends!!" It means that we are not talking honestly to friends and colleagues and relationships tend to be built on sand.
Whether we like it or not there is hidden meaning in the words we use and getting along with each other harmoniously is dependent on effective and acceptable communication.
In one sense this episode is part of a well trodden road and frankly I am tired of looking back to a time when this stuff was acceptable. I would prefer to look forward to a different way of living together that is acceptable to ALL groups.
Welcome to the 21st century!
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Who made the word 'Golliwog' racist? Comment 2 et al.
The clue is partly in the last three leters of the word, which form a word of racial abuse, though seldom used nowadays. (Though rummage around in various far right blogs and websites and you'll still find the word is used derogatively today.)
'W**' (along with othe now defunctwords) were used as a form of abuse by the British Raj army in India, Egypt and elsewhere to refer to the native peoples.
In Australia, where the tennis in question is being played, 'w**' still has current racist overtones. It was used as an ethnic slur by Australian Anglo-Saxons from the 1950s to describe immigrants from Mediterranean countries and Eastern Countries. It still does cause offence in Australia; Carol Thatcher's words reach beyond these shores.
The Robinson’s gollywogs were a caricature for black people when they were created in 1901. Today they are, at best, racially insensitive - the picture on Roberson's jam is a gross stereotype of all black people.
Personally, I only use word 'golly' when joined with 'gosh', as used in a pre British Empire sense, as an exclamation; as in golly-gosh! (Both 'golly' and 'gosh' were used as alliterative euphemisms for 'God' in the early 18th Century.)
Carol, could have been just repremanded - and the origins of the word explained to her. For people of her age that grew up with language like this, and probably not thinking much about it since, she may not have been aware of the offence she could cause. It could have been handled better.
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SheffTim: The Golliwog was Robertsons logo, Robinsons make barley water.
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#52 Good point, well made.
I meant Robertsons. I don't eat much jam or drink fruit drinks I'm afraid (not got a sweet tooth) so didn't notice the difference.
Substantive point still stands though.
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I read yesterday that Middlesex Cricket Club have changed the name of their 20 twenty team from Crusaders to Panthers.A spokesman(or should I say spokesperson) said that the club had received complaints from Jewish and Muslim communities because the name was a reference to the medieval Christian crusades against other faiths.
The reaction to Carol Thatcher by the BBC ,is another example of PC which is causing an increasing resentment towards the very people and groups who complain.
Moderate people are becoming increasingly concerned that they are living in a Nazi state .
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Taking The Mick
Isn't it about time that the BBC sacked the silly people that are bringing the coporation into disrepute?
I'm no fan of Carol Thatcher at all but if she had said, 'her hair looks like a gollywog's hair', would that also have been offensive? Does the hair in question does look like a gollywog's hair? Well does it? What are you thinking?? If the in question hair was in short dreads, then it would be the same as a gollywog's hair, wouldn't it?
Ann Leslie on the other hand, I find particularly offensive, mainly due to her attitude on a range of subjects.
I've grown up as a 'fenian', 'taig', 'greenwog', 'leftfooter', 'papist', 'etc', 'etc'. What was it that John Lennon said about the Irish? Personally, I'm proud of it.
Now in England I'm a 'Paddy', 'Mick' or a 'leprechaun'. It's perfectly acceptable for the modern day BBC to 'tease' the Irish, whether it is Alan Partridge or countless times on Live At The Apollo but if the perceived term of abuse is perceived to be abusive to non whites then that's a different matter.
As an Irish person living in London I have never heard any derogatory terms towards a non white in their presence, if you're Irish however, this is a regular occurrence.
Don't let these people hide under the cloak of a politically correct society. In my experience it's better to let racists identify themselves in public by their own ignorance. Life is much more difficult when you don't know who your enemy is.
Maybe I'm just 'taking the mick'. Look up the origin of this everyday phrase. How many of you can honestly say that you have never used it?
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It is nothing to do with her remarks. Its about jealousy or someone on the show or at the BBC doesn't like her and wants her sacked and this is the perfect excuse someone needs to get rid of her. Report her for using a term that could cause offence and let the court of opinion do the rest.
We needed to get rid of a guy at work who was a complete pain the ****. But to make him redundant would cost a fortune and to go thru the painful process of warnings and letters would take time and effort and we needed a stronger reason that need to get rid. So we waited until he forwarded a mucky joke using the work email and "bingo" we got him 'instant dismissal' for using the companys equipment for sending sexist language. See ya ! When he said he would appeal we will bring out the offending joke about naked women etc that he sent and we will send it to the local paper and your wife and kids and see what they think of you. Its just a way to get rid of someone. Someone didn't like her and wanted her out and she delivered them an excuse on a plate. Nothing to do with offence, racism, just spite ! Don't say a word we live in 1984 now and anything can be used against you if it needs to be...
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If Ms Thatcher had used a similar anti-semetic term she would ,quite rightly, expect her career to suffer.
I hope it serves as a wake up. Racism is not charming ecentricity. It is hurtful, devicive and destructive and belongs in the dustbin of history. So does Ms. Thatcher's stay on the One Show if she can not embrace reality.
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Point the first, People should start by realistic THERE IS NO RACE - race in humans is not a concept supported by science (go to school people) - it was a cultural way of suppressing people. But just as you won't call people with red hair a race there is no reason to do so based on skin colour .
Point the second, just as people can make fun of someone with red hair they should be allowed to do so with skin colour if its offensive - their surroundings will punish them.
But this constant censorship of the BBC and of people will not work, it will breed hate - not love. Censorship is always wrong.
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It's interesting to note that the word golly and gosh are euphamisms for the the word God. It is used by people who wish to blaspheme without, in their opinion, causing offence.
So we get the term "by golly" "by gosh" and even "golly gosh".
Other well known religious euphamisms are "jeez" and "jeepers" for Jesus; "cripes" and "crikey" for Christ and "Jiminy Cricket "for Jesus Christ
I noticed that when the lady called in to 5 live this morning complaining that she had been offended, she simply used the word God as a blasphemy 3 times as she couldn't remember someone's name.
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Nationwide-lite -
More like BBC-lite.
Look on the bright side Carol....it could be a lot worse.....
Thank God ( BBC, can I still use this term?? ) you're not Palestinian.
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Ah... so somebody couldn't resist complaining about comment 46 from Radioactive.
Of course it was offensive, but at least I knew what he thought ( maybe he's a comedian ) and I'd know to avoid him. See comment 55.
Free speech is so important.
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I don't understand the thinking that a golliwog is just a doll, so it is no more insulting than a barbie doll. A doll is not just a doll, for the same reason that a flag is not just a flag.
If I were to walk around Trafalgar Square waving a Cross of St George, no one should take offence, though they may think me a little odd.
So, using the same logic as the Barbie doll example, no one should take offence if I were to walk around Trafalgar Square waving a swastika? After all, it's just a flag.
Though my recollection of school history lessons is admittedly sketchy, I can't recall learning about vast swathes of humanity being enslaved for 400 years on the basis that they were white, with blonde hair and blue eyes?
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I listened to Nicky Campbells Breakfast Show this morning and can contain myself no longer. This politically correct nonsense drives me mad. Many moons ago, when I was upset after being called four eyes at school, my mother sat me down and told me, " Sticks and stones may break your bones but names will never hurt you" and I've never forgotten that. I've been called many names since that, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I am comfortable with who I am and that is all that matters.
When talking with friends or work colleagues I would regularly refer to foreigners in a variety of derogatory terms as would they. However, I would never dream of calling foreigners these names to their face or being rude to them in any way.( unless of course they were rude in the first place.) I would also never dream of hurting someone of a different race or inciting anyone else to do so.
If I was sitting on a bus and a lady got on and there were no seats left, it wouldn't matter to me if they were white , black, yellow, brown or purple, I would get up and give them my seat.( I've probably offended the feminists now)
If someone was stopped at the side of the road with a puncture I would try and help no matter what their race or colour.
I'm writing this on behalf of all 'Whiteys, Gringos, and Honkys who are fed up with this rubbish.
Politically correct people - GROW UP!
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Not only do I think the BBC are yet again showing themselves to be completely out of touch with the vast majority of people, but I am appalled at the small minded little twit that reported her. If it was you, Mr Chiles, may you hurriedly never appear on my screen again and take your petty mind with you.
I grew up collecting tokens from marmalade jars and sending off for enamel golliwog badges like so many others of that era.
It didn't in any way make me a racist and the fact that my wife is Anglo Indian must speak for itself.
The problem is that the recent immigrants, of which the BBC employs a great many are riding rough shod over the indigenous population. So don't be surprised when the fanatics of the BNP start winning elections.
You have only your own racism to blame.
Lastly, my hope is that the arse that made the decision to fire Ms Thatcher resigns, preferably without taking the overblown pension that the BBC hands out using my money.
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I had heard, but can't verify, that she was talking about Andy Murray's hair.
This is ridiculous.. political correctness gone mad.
Even more worrying is the inference on the BBC's web site, i.e. it doesn't mention who the player is. Allowing the easy assumption, that it is about colour.
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There is a link to the story at the top of this page.
She was not talking about Andy Murray.
She was talking about a black tennis player.
White, middle-class, and a Tory, yet she turns out to be a closet racist.
It's political incorrectness gone mad!
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I think the whole race is being blown out of proportion. I will never want to see the blacks being segregated or treated wrongly or even the holocaust but I think we have gone mad. Nobody gone to the rescue of the white farmers when Mugabe was racist towards them.
Please please Britian let everyone live their lives the way they want.
Someone told me "i used to like the (so and so) - got to be careful here, until I am being forced to.
Just show, are we not allowed to choose our friends now. Sacking Carol for saying the word is outrageous and being childish.
BBC grow up otherwise I will stop paying my licence. you can be a great institution perhaps wrong people running the corporation.
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I feel the BBC has two laws, one for one person and one for somebody else. It seems Jonathon Ross can get away with whatever he likes, I feel somebody at the BBC does not like Carol Thatcher, or maybe her mother, for what was a very inoffensive remark. After all nobody died did they? mayvetherave
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I have not seen a transcript of what Carol Thatcher actually said, but if she gave the opinion that a man looked like a golliwog because of his hair style and skin colour, and this was in a private conversation, it cannot justify the action taken against her. She should be reinstated immediately, and until she is, I intend to boycott the One Show.
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The majority of listeners who either contacted the programme or have written on here about Carol Thatcher's remark have been completely duped over why yet another irrelevent news story has been allowed to dominate the news and predictably enough be the leading item on today's phone in programme and other BBC programmes like the Jeremy Vine show!
Whether Thatcher was right, wrong or unaware of the racist overtones in the comment, it should be obvious to all that these petty controversies over what personalities in the public eye say or do are becoming more and more frequent as the economic and political crisis deepens! So much so that people should be asking (in a political system dominated by personalities rather than political issues) is there a secret agenda behind them all.
She made this comment in private and off air, so what's the big deal? Hence it should be obvious that this was all orchestrated deliberately in order to heap sympathy upon her and to pander to the anti-political correct lobby!
This is becoming a common trait of the right wing in British politics (and make no mistake, Carol is just as right wing as her Mum despite media attempts to cast her in a different light).
The current economic crisis is solely down to unchallenged right wing economic policies albeit at present being implemented by a pathetic right wing government that calls itself Labour. All these idiotic distractive furore's simply serve to divert attention away from the fact that its the policies and outlook of the right wing that is plummeting the UK even further into the mire!
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It is truly a shameful when someone sets out to deliberately offend someone. An apology is required.
I wonder if there is a grey area, when an innocent comment is made, perhaps a comparison, with no malice intended.
If someone has the appearance of Morgan Freeman, Jackie Chan, or Tom Cruise, is it racist to say they look like that famous character?
Similarly, is it racist to say they look like a Barbie doll? I have heard on many occasions a woman described as looking like Barbie.
If none of these are racist, then it cant be racist to say the person looks like a Golly doll if they indeed have that appearance.
Are there any recent photos of the man concerned so we can all see if he had that appearance?
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Carol Thatcher's remark was silly even in a private converation, BUT the BBC have highlighted the issue so much that millions have now heard about the remark and the continued use of the word golliwog who would never have heard it otherwise. Surely this compounds the issue - if indeed it is an issue - but in my view is far less offensive as a concept than blaspheming or swearing as many of the multi-million pound presenters of BBC programmes do on a daily basis. The politically correct members of the younger generation need to realise that many of their expressions and attitudes are just as offensive as they claim are the comments and expressions of those brought up in a different era who actually saw the golliwog doll as a loving and friendly toy - nothing more. The golliwog is NOT seen as a grotesque doll by those brought up with it as something to cuddle in bed. Saying that, as the BBC controller did this morning is equally offensive to many. This issue is completely out of proportion and it beggars belief that Mr Ross can get away with what he did and still earn an obscene amount of money simply be saying 'sorry' - I wonder how sorry he really is and clearly Carol Thatcher will not grovel to the young upstarts at the BBC just to save her job.
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Reading through these blogs the score of licence fee payers supporting Carol Thatcher is 72 for, and the score for the BBC having sacked her is ZERO.
Time to reinstate Carol and sack Ross.
NOW
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So who is the tennis player that was all over the papers recently that looks like a gollywog doll?
Any suggestions anyone?
Why is this fundamental piece of information being censored from us?
Let us make our own minds up. Stop treating us like children BBC.
Does anyone remember the picture of the dog or bald cat ( I think ) on Have I got News For You that was compared to Cherie Blair? Now that was funny. It was funny then and it's funny now but is it worse than this? I think it was a lot worse and it was broadcast.
If Carole Thatcher had said that all people belonging to a certain social group look like gollywogs, then that is racist and she would deserve to be prosecuted never mind sacked. You do have the witnesses BBC. Why don't you prosecute her if you're so sure she was racist that she deserves to be sacked?
To the witness; are you saying that Carol Thatcher was only slightly racist? She was racist enough for your sensitive self to be offended and make a complaint but not too racist. Maybe a 4/10 on your racist scale. You're obviously spineless. If you're so offended, then have the courage of your convictions and help to prosecute this vile racist. She was racist enough to get sacked but not racist enough to be prosecuted? Is that what you're saying? Racists deserve to be prosecuted.
BBC if you're going to sack her, then prosecute her too. I would hope that Carole would sue for unfair dismissal. You've got your witness to back you up.
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I'm very supportive of the BBC dealing with Ms Thatcher by giving her the sack. She deserved it, if she thought that the word Golliwog is acceptable or funny, then she really is out of touch with modern attitudes.
My surprise is that she was ever given a job on the BBC in the first place!
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what a fuss about a remark that stated a soft cuddly toy. how people interpret that remark depends on their racist views and people suggesting racism are themselves the racists. or are they public school types that necver had a soft, cuddly gollywog. I loved mine with a vengeance and woe betide anyone who had tried to part me from my golly. as to people withdrawing them from sale, that is ridiculous to say the least. I wonder if it is men who take racist views of the word and the women who remember their beloved golly who do not.
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I notice the BBC is celebrating 50 years of Barbi dolls today.
Surely they have done more harm to children than golliwogs ever did.
I suppose it will be on the 6 pm TV News, read by a Barbi lookalike. Sorry should I have said that!
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I think that the comments that Ms. Carol Thatcher was not accepted language...But, they were conducted in a private conservation between (private parties) in a conference room....
I think that she should not have been punished by, getting fired....Maybe she should have received a corrective punishment...i.e Reprimand letter for the usage of those words are not accepted language to be used in any formal office building.....
~Dennis Junior~
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I read the BBC Story regarding the Carol Thatcher story...And the BBC did not fired her from the Entire BBC Networks only from the show, that she is affiliated with...
And, the BBC offered her a chance to, released a press statement apologizing for the comments and Ms. Thatcher rejected the idea.
~Dennis Junior~
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Today we have more BBC navel gazing from Radio 5. Is there anything we can do to stop Radio 5, and Victoria Darbyshire in particular, constantly focusing on this vacuous in-house gossip?
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Hear, hear. A big cheer for OnTheEdgeEdgeRacing.
Is there anything we can do to stop Victoria Derbyshire and her ilk fullstop? I would say most of the female presenters on Five Live and Stephen Nolan.
Bring back Vincent Hanna.
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, so someone from the Beeb's at it again. Poor old Jeremy. He must be in it up to his waist by now. Buckaroo at the Beeb. It's become a joke now, hasn't it? I wonder who's next.
Hopefully it will spark some sort of interesting, informative & intelligent ( The 3 I's ) non-pc backlash that will last for a thousand years so nobody will have to fear the stifling, dreary, dull stranglehold that these people are currently holding over all of our lives.
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We will not be watching the One Show again as we think Jo Brand is hypocritical,and is foul mouthed and abusive in her own shows, and Adrian Chiles, well what can be said about him, and the BBC seems to support those who use foul language on their radio shows and television shows without sacking the culprits What Carol Thatcher said was taken out of context, while Ross never seemed to be repentant at all. Adrian Chiles should be ashamed of himself that he could not deal with this himself at the time, is he a man or a mouse, it is like a little school boy running to the Head Master.
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