Political correctness gone mad?
| 07:36 UK time, Wednesday, 25 February 2009
The Communities Secretary Hazel Blears is making a speech later, and she's expected to say that political correctness is making it difficult to deal with extremism in the UK. She says it's important to have good manners and be tolerant of other people, but that worrying about upsetting people is preventing open debate and common sense.
Is she right? Has political correctness gone mad, or are we right to be careful about what we say and do? Nicky's taking your calls on the breakfast phone-in. Post your thoughts below.
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The PC brigade are totally in control now. Our songs, nursery rhymes, golliwogs, mention the word race and you're a racist yet we have a black policemens association, mention gays and your homophobic yet we have gay marches, we can't have blackboards but we can have whiteboards we are now told what we can and can't say, what we can and can't do. This Christmas (oops) 25th December let's have a save a turkey stuff a PC creep.
Fedup, Newcastle
PS Have your next debate on Human Rights.
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Hazel Blears rightly attacks violence against women - but has supported a Government which is obsessed with abortion and euthanasia.
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So Hazel Blears wants to make a speech about political correctness! I wonder why?! Maybe it's because this Government which has been obsessed with PC will thankfully not be relected at the next election and she is already looking after her own interests in preparation for their leadership election. I have just returned from working in Australia and they have a refreshing attitude to PC. If you dont like our culture, our people, our values and the fact that we are a mainly christian country, then leave. Immigrants in Australia are encouraged to learn about Australia and to bring parts of their culture but they are all taught to respect the Australian laws. Their press and people also have a relaxed attitude and don't get hung up about using non PC words unlike some of those in the BBC like Adrian Childs who going running off to Mummy like a spoilt kid because someone uses a common term in a private conversation.
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Labour banning the Union Jack from being displayed because it might upset those who are not English.
Christianity being generally restricted or banned from schools, NHS buildings, councils - the list is long.
Parents are responsible for the behaviour of their children but 'political correctness' gives the children the right to behave as they want.
For example a parent cannot even ban their child from leaving the house without the police charging them with imprisonment!
The changes to the English language that political correctness requires are mostly nonsense.
We still have official forms which list all different ethnic origins but don't list English as an option! (there have been some improvements with some forms recently)
Being PC seems to mean that the majority has to change to suit minorities groups with their minority views!
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Well done to Hazel Blears - at last someone in this government has the courage to say something sensible. Political correctness started as something sensible but has gone too far. Perhaps now we can have some real debates that get to the heart of matters that are important to our society.
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im all for political correctness it seems commons sense we can discuss anything we want if we couldnt then that would be true political correctness not being able to speak but what gives a person the right to say what they want without responsibility its about respecting diffrence you wouldnt go around and be racist and call peopple the n-word or p-word surely thats basic common surely the education system and the wisdom and knowledge your grand parents and parents would teach you that its only the cowards and bullys who want to be deeply offensive to other people and then say nonsense like we cant say christmas or have the lights and other things like baa baa black sheep and school plays by blaiming the minority folk yet i have never met a person from the minority comunities to object to baa baa black sheep its the white middle class and the gutter press and media who stir things up by blaiming minorities when they dont wish to disscuss things but just to be deeply offensive
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HOw can I email the programme? thank you
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People need to be more coutious when soun#rcing information from the internet. I cannoy #t find a single reliable source suggesting that baa baa black sheep relates to the slave trade. The common concensus appears to be that it stems from medieval times and is a reference to the draconian taxation system. A further point is that slaves were usually involved in cotton production...why therefore make a derogatory song revolving around wool production....?
It is too easy to source believable information on the internet that cannot be validated. It wouldn't be difficult for me to create a website arguing that little miss muffet is antisemetic or little jack horner is homophobic.
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Here's a genuine offer I'm making to people on the board and for Five Live overall. Give me any specific examples of political correctness you've heard about and I will do the research and tell you whether it really happened or if it's a mythical load of whipped-up tosh.
Here's two so far:
"Baa Baa Black Sheep" - yes, there was indeed a primary school that changed the words to "Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep." Know why this was? It's because they were teaching the kids the colours of the rainbow. The sheep was seven colours - "Baa baa red sheep" and so on - until the end, when it became a rainbow sheep to implant the idea that these were the colours of the rainbow.
"Winterval" - as anyone who saw QI a couple of weeks ago will know, this was used by Birmingham council as a three-month shopping festival including Bonfire Night, Diwali, Eid, New Year and other seasonal events as well as Christmas itself. A Bishop in the city tried to claim it was a way of "not talking about Christmas." The council responded by pointing out that:
"Birmingham City Council wants people to celebrate Christmas. Christmas is the very heart of Winterval; far from not talking about Christmas the events within Winterval and the publicity material for it are covered in Christmas greetings and traditional images, including angels and carol singers.
The council had drawn particular attention to the city's Anglican cathedral during the festival by placing Christmas lights in the trees around the building, and the greeting "Happy Christmas Birmingham" hung in large lights over the main entrance to the Council House as it had done every other year"
Any others?
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I am glaswegian , my wife is Glaswegian but her parents are Indian. She recently returned from a correct language and racial awareness day in tears. When asked what the matter was she said that she was so upset because the coarse leader had labeled her and made her feel for the first time in her life seperated from other Glaswegians. Aparently she has to call her self Asian even though she thinks she is Scottish with Indian looking skin. She commented that it was the first time anyone had ever called her names to do with the colour of her skin.
Maybe political correctness does not help intergration?
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Political correctness is about institutionalising a set of left wing values and stopping the raising of alternative debate.
Political protectness is the debate, views and alleged facts that can be aired on the BBC without the Presenter castigating the listener for holding them. Those institutionalised views championed by the BBC are:
Anti profit, protecting the ‘vulnerable’, in otherwords wealth redistribution
Man made global warming – The BBC put their name to and sponsored the book ‘Saving Planet Earth’ by Tony Jupiter, Friends of the Earth campaigner and Green Party candidate. The manifesto of the Green Party is so closely linked to Communism
Castigation of anyone who does not embrace homosexuality.
Its not the Fabian Society that needs to be criticised, it’s the BBC for being defacto a publicly funded Socialist pressure Group.
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ref thombostons offer,have a look at this
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article4188170.ece
Will be interested to hear your comments on the banning of Fathers Day cards in fear if offending single mothers and lesbian couples and also the removal of christian references from Christmas cards in fear of offending people of other faiths in Scottish schools.
This prohibition does occur in schools throughout Scotland and I fail to understand why.Like England,Scotland is a christian country esteeming family values.
Oh and I have no objection to people of other faiths in this country celebrating thier festivals/holy days and would be happy to recieve any card/gifts involved in that celebration.
Similarly I have no objection to Mothers Day but am extremely unlikely to recieve cars/gift then
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The most ludicrous example of PC I have heard is the banning of competitiveness at school sports days.
Have you heard about this thomboston? Having events and 'races' that no one can win or lose.
Really, can someone tell me what the point of this is meant to be? What are schools trying to achieve by imposing this policy? It is completely unreflective of the real world and, if I was a child in one of these schools, I would feel my intelligence was being insulted.
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@anubis sco: reading through the article it appears that the headline is rather overblown. There is no evidence given at all of children being "banned" from making cards. The only quote that actually backs up the story comes from a guy pointing out that the decisions are being made on a class-by-class basis. "Teachers asked to be sensitive as divorce rates increase" might not as been as sexy a headline though.
Regarding the competitiveness at sports days - can you point me to a specific example where this has happened? Any specific schools where this practice is being implimented? If so I am quite happy to take a look.
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Thomboston
"Christian references have been removed from Christmas cards and school sports days excised of competitiveness. Now Father's Day has become the latest event to fall victim to the forces of political correctness.
Last week thousands of children were prevented from making Father’s Day cards at school to avoid causing embarrassment to classmates who live with single mothers and lesbian couples"
This is quite clear.The referance to "individual class basis" is just a typical mealymouthed excuse and deprives the majority in preferance to the few.
Also I notice that you completely ignore ..."Christian references have been removed from Christmas cards .." as this is declared policy in Scottish schools.
Please slop living in a dream word and realise that PC is here and is here to stay as long as this and successive Government think they can use it to control the masses
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I suspect that most of the anti PC brigade want to call a spade a spade in the name of free speech and to freely insult their fellow citizens in colourful language without suffering reproof or other consequences. I doubt if they have recently been in a church or a school, and if they have, would not object to some of the current language used by older kids in the playground about the old, disabled, and gay.
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I hate it when people refer to the 'PC brigade'.
If it wasn't for the 'PC brigade' women wouldn't have the vote and black people would still be 2nd class citizens.
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mcsap6, I am a primary school teacher and I have never heard of a school banning competitive sport. Actually, under the government's current school sports policy the opposite is true.
Please stop making things up and trying to pass them as fact.
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Am I right in thinking that PAKI is short for Pakistani? Just an abreviation?
Prince Harry calls a mate "Our little Paki friend" and is forced to apologise two years later. This guy was a mate of his for heavens sake!
Am I right in thinking that "Brit" is short for British? Should the Sun Newspaper be forced to aplogise every time it prints the word Brit or The Brits are coming? Is the word Brit offensive?
Is "Scot" Offensive? "The Scots are coming". Another Sun Newspaper Football Clash Headline classic.
What about Ozzie? Kiwi? Pommie? Limey? Where or when will this lunacy end? The Cornish call all holiday makers "Grockles" Anything wrong with that?
If a Pakistani called you "His Brit friend" Would you feel offended? Would you demand an apology on National TV?
Of course not.
Del Trotter refers to "The Paki Shop" in one episode of Only Fools and Horses. (Now overdubbed for UK Gold with the offending word taken out). (The episode when they build a nuclear fall out shelter).
Should Sir David Jason now apologise? Should the writer John Sullivan apologise? Should the BBC apologise?
What about the Fuzzywuzzies? "Dads Army"
What about "You stupid Krout"? Fawlty Towers.
Both still being broadcast regularly with no overdub.
The Idiots are at it again trying to stir up racial hatred. It's just madness surely?
I'm happy being a BRIT, BRITISH, ENGLISH, POMMIE, LIMEY or whatever. I don't care a fig.
I only care when I'm called a racist.
I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO NEXT YEARS "BRIT AWARDS" ON THE TV. LUCKILY, THANKS TO THE ZEALOTS, RACISTS AND BIGOTS THERE WILL NEVER BE A "PAKI AWARDS". Oh no indeed, because all the Pakis will be at The Brit Awards. And us Brits won't mind at all will we?
There's something rotten in the barrel and nobody in government or local politics has the guts to stand up and say "GROW UP THE LOT OF YOU".
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You sense there must be bad news ahead when GB sends out HB to twitter on about some nebulous subject like this - thank god we were spared the usual "I'm just a working class girl from Salford bla bla" speech. The sound of fiddling while Rome burns is particularly grating. You have to ask why has it taken so long for this to become an issue for HB? As we near an election we'll no doubt have more of these inneffectual government drones highlighting the fault lines in the society they've been instrumental in creating over the last 10 years - Time soon to wheel out woolly thoughts on unmarried mothers, ASBOs, education, crime, soft drugs, alcohol... by mid tier ministers looking for their 15 minutes of fame. What really gets me is how people like HB have never had a real job in their lives, it makes people like me turn into Richard Littlejohn, and don't get me onto the subject of Harriet Harmon and her proposed reforms, jeez, you couldn't make it up.
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From Richard Littlejons column 22/02/09
"Another icon hit by the PC brigade
Al Jolson is the latest victim of the Golliwog Squad. A new musical based on the singer's life has been airbrushed to remove his famous 'blackface'.
The producers of the show, which opens in Edinburgh next week, were worried that Jolson's minstrel make-up would offend diversity-conscious members of the audience.
This ultra-sensitivity means star Allan Stewart, who is white, will have to perform
Jolson classics such as Swannee without the benefit of grease-paint.
But this isn't the Black And White Minstrel Show. Jolson is an historically accurate portrayal of a real-life performer, not a calculated insult to blacks.
The 'blackface' was an integral part of his act. And, far from being a racist, Jewish immigrant Jolson was a fearless champion of racial equality at a time when discrimination was endemic.
Where is this insane fear of giving offence going to end? How long before Barry Humphries has to play Dame Edna dressed as a man, just in case he presents a negative stereotype of transvestites?
Come pantomime season, I look forward to the next actor playing Captain Hook appearing with both hands intact for fear of offending a certain Islamist preacher of hate."
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I can understand the need for a degree of political correctness however in being politically correct we must be careful to use a degree of common sense. We must also realise that at one time there was freedom of speach in the united kingdom. This was a fundamental right to give and recieve opinions on everything in the walks of life and in doing so individuals had to be mature and flexible enough to accept that people do have differing viewpoints. If we impart from a fundamental freedom of speech this breach must be for all individuals and not just a portion or select group. It would be unfair to allow a select group of individuals to express their viewpoints on issues such as religion whilst at the same time effectively barring others.
Common sense must prevail as must equality for all.
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Erm... call me naive if you will, but what's the difference between political correctness and totalitarianism? We are told what we must think and believe, and are not allowed to express an alternative view. What happened to free speech? I'm not a racist but if, for example, I wanted to make a comment about all the young people coming into this country taking jobs away from British born people, I would be accused of racism, wouldn't I? Never mind that I might have a legitimate grievance, unconnected with the race or ethnicity of the young people concerned. I'm afraid that keeping the lid on such resentments for too long and denying them a voice can only lead to a backlash.
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Where would Radio 5 be if it weren't for the 'PC gone mad' brigade, or the 'I'm not racist but..' hypocrites, and this is the new Radio 4!!!!Why is it that we need to replay the same disingenuous argument over and over again? It's not as if we ever hit upon any enlightenment or even anything resembling a truth.
Surely this endless argument playing and replaying across media is the sound of a country that has always used language as something to hide behind finally disappearing up themselves, it's the sound of the dishonest losing sight of what they honestly mean to say. Why, for instance, is it important for one to use the term gollywog? Why are we fighting for that right? What part of your expression are you losing? Not once have I heard a convincing argument.
In my opinion what is honestly going on here are groups of people, unhappy, miserable even with their lot, who need to feel empowered any way they can and as we are seeing being played out in so many sections of modern society, the easiest way to feel empowered is to ridicule, bully, generally beat up on groups in the minority. Now toys are being thrown out of prams because you've lost the moral right to use the language to do it. That's the truth of it, and I've history to back me up. Ugly isn't it?
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Political correctness in the UK has nothing to do with hampering the fight against extremism or against terrorists. These issues can only be dealt with by dealing with the root political causes of terrorism and the creation of extremists!
The extent of political correctness is a direct consequence of New Labour (hence Hazel Blears) wholly submitting to Tory 'free market' ideology. Hence despite all the trivial personalised bluster, there's no partisan political debate between the mainstream parties particularly over how an economy in meltdown is managed and from which evolves all the main political social tensions.
In such a climate politics is therefore reduced to personalities, petty reforms and a question of complying with political correctness due to the absence of intense political debate.
Only when there's a proper radical left alternative challenging the failed identical rotten reformist policies of New Labour/Tories/Lib Dems etc can political correctness be disposed of in favour of real politcs which puts the economic and social wellbeing of society at large in front of the survival of golliwogs being sold at Sandringham!
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Srange, I thought New Labour was the champion of Political correctness, whilst on the other hand supporting occupation of Muslim countries, imprisonment without trial, or charge, and torture. Which would be more likely to cause someone to turn to extremism? (a) Someone mentioning Christmas or (b) A completly innocent person being jailed and torured for years on end. People like Blears are actually the cause of terrorism.
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To thomboston and stirling222.
I will not claim to be an expert on UK schools. I read about non-compretitive sports days in this article
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article5733335.ece in the Sunday Times.
I found the story quite unbelieveable, I do admit. But I also doubt that she is making the claim up out of nowhere.
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