- 19 Jun 08, 03:07 PM
Question number 9
Spain are playing in a quarter-final at Euro 2008 when one of the opposition players is substituted. The player is not pleased. He walks to the touchline and swaps places with a teammate, who is substituting him. Then, out of frustration, he throws his shirt to the ground, walks over and punches the fourth official.
He is presumably sent to the stands, or to the dressing room. But the question is, will his team be reduced to 10 players or have they got away with it, because the substitution had been completed by that point? And what would be his punishment?
Thanks to RichBarber for this question.
We will bring you the answer to this question on Friday.
Now for a reminder of question number 8, followed by Keith Hackett's answer.
Question number 8
It's the quarter-final of Euro 2008. The Netherlands are a goal down with just seconds remaining of added-on time. The referee awards a corner kick to the Dutch.
The Netherlands keeper leaves his goal and races into the opposition penalty area, but the corner is hit too high and is likely to swing past the far post out of play, well out of everyone's reach.
Two Dutch players hoist the keeper high in the air, rugby-style. They do not block, impede or interfere with any opponents as they hold the keeper steady in the air like a towering statue.
The ball flies towards him and he meets it perfectly to head it into the back of the net.
What would you do in this situation?
Keith Hackett's answer
This is a very good question and with the regular exploits of Edwin van der Sar into his opponent's penalty area when playing for Manchester United this could well happen at Euro 2008.
In this type of unusual incident in the heat of a game and in the dying seconds, it could catch a match official out and result in a wrong and very debatable decision.
It is NO GOAL. The two players involved in lifting the goalkeeper, as well as Van der Sar, will be cautioned for UNSPORTING BEHAVIOUR. The game would re-start with an indirect free-kick to the defending team from where the offence took place.
If, however, the offence took place in the goal area, then the kick could be taken from anywhere in the six-yard box.
Thanks to themilkybarkidfromliverpool for this question.
Keep sending us in your suggestions and BBC Sport will choose some to be turned into You Are The Ref scenarios. We reserve the right to modify any we select.
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The substitution has been completed and the team can carry on with 11 players, but the offending player will be sent off and presumably handed a charge for violent conduct.
The referee has the power to send off or reprimand any of the players or coaches from when he arrives in the ground up to when he leaves.
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Nobody would be sent off in this scenario, but the player would be fined and suspended forthe next 3-6 games.
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Seeing as the Substitution has already been made, the player would be shown a red card by the ref and sent to the changing room. the game continues on as normal as the player was no longer active in the game.
much the same to if a sub punches the 4th official, he would be shown a red card and sent to the changing room.
the player would then recieve a hefty fine for his actions towards the offical and will presumably be banned for a large number of games.
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Agree with the two comments above, however the player commiting the assualt would be red carded and reported for the assualt which carrys a life time ban, But as he is a pro, some fudging would go on, but not in local football, banned for life would be the punishment. Shows two sets of rules exist but everytime you say that it is denied, but it is true.
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did he really need to take his top off?
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I'd imagine that the player would be banned sine die (indefinitely) but that the team could continue with 11 men.
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Player would be Suspended, the countries FA/ Players club will be fined, aswel as the player. You had one simmilar and I think that you said that that the player would be sent off and the sub would become Viod as the player tecnically isn't active any more so the sub would take his place back on the bench and the team would play on with 10 playuers
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The explanation for scenario 8 isn't very clear. What is the unsporting behaviour that has been comitted? What rule has been broken?
I wonder if any team has thought about practising a corner where a player puts his hand on a team mates shoulder to get extra height. Thinking about it you'd probably end up with a Steve Morrow style incident.
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If the substitutions been completed then he's just like any other non-playing member of the squad/management team. He can still be sent off for his actions, and would no doubt get a huge ban.
There's a lesson here - try not to get so frustrated at missing 10 minutes of football that you punch someone...
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I assume that for "opposition" we need to read Italy! In that case Gattuso had better not be the one to be substituted (relax - I know he is suspended). I agree with all the comments below that state that the player leaving the pitch would be red carded and banned for a while, but the "opposition" would still have 11 players on the field. Interesting side question - if a player that isn't on the field is red carded, should that reduce the number of substitutions available to the team be reduced by 1, as a fitting punishment? Comments...
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Well first I think the player would be cautioned for assault. Then the player would be sent off, fined and probably get given a long ban.
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SimonWilding wrote he would get a sine die ban which is indefinate. Sorry but a sine die ban is not indefinate.
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Easy.
The referee sends the substituted player off, meaning the team still has 11 men as the substitute has already come on.
The player that has been sent off will be fined and given a hefty ban (20-25 games my guess)
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With refercence to Question 8~
I'm interested in the converse to this question, what if a defender standing behind the defensive wall gains extra height by leaning his arms on a team mates shoulders?
If he blocked the shot would he be penalised for unsporting behaviour ?
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The match would be suspended and Spain would be awarded a 2-0 win the Italian player would be than banned from playing football for 24 months and recive a hefty fine
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I'd hope Fabregas would be cautioned for smiling like that while the official was being assaulted. He seems to be enjoying it a little too much.
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In refrence to Question 8 didnt Red Park or Warbury do something similar in the sun comic strip against Chelsea and the goal was allowed to stand?
I know its only a cartoon but I would have thought that they would hav had to stick to the rules.
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they have the sub sent off, and can make 1 less sub so, if this was the first sub can now only make 1 more rather than 2 more.
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On the Kepper note. People are saying that you should blow the wistle for unsporting behaviour. Well , shouldn't a reff blow when a goalkeeper in a penalty shoot out is moving across his line,dancing,making funny movements. Surley by trying to put off your opponent to kick the ball or just to freak him out is unsporting behavior.
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No sending off as such.
It's no different to a coach or player on the bench being dismissed - they are sent to the changing room or stand, and the game carries on 11 v 11.
The offending player can expect a very hefty ban though.
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The player substituted would receive a red card for violent conduct, reported to the police and would be charged by the police with assault. Probably get a prison sentence as did Ferguson in Glasgow for head butting a player
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The game would be abandoned!
ALthough, if for some reason it wasn't, the player would be sent to the changing rooms (or arrested!?!?!) and the game continue with 11v11.
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Re : Reply 19 -
'Keepers are now allowed to move along the goal line during a penalty kick.
They are also permitted to dance about and generally act the fool so long as they don't move off the line before the ball has been kicked.
When a ref should blow his whistle and demand a re-take is when the 'keeper has taken two giant strides off the line and has almost nabbed the ball off the spot before it has been struck.
But, obviously, that doesn't happen very often.
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19. technically a keeper should be booked as I have am occasionally for such behaviour whilst facing penalty's!
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17. They did but when has anything in The Sun ever used FACT to get in the way of a good story???
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A similar incident happened last season at Cheshunt (Southern League Prem), when the Referee sent the offending player to the dressing room and, although the substitute was by then on the field of play, ordered him back to the bench, and the team continued with 10 men. We assumed this was because the game had not been re-started and therefore the substitute had not taken part in any active play.
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For #9, I think others have already pointed out the correct answer. It is, indeed a red card with the guilty player sent away from the field. It does not reduce the team's number of players on the field. However, it should indeed be reported to police. The physical assault of an official is a criminal matter.
In my jurisdiction, referees are instructed that they should stop the match and only resume once police have arrived and taken their reports. At Euro 2008, I doubt this would be necessary.
Of course the referee and fourth official would both write a detailed report of the incident for the football authorities and be co-operative and forthcoming for the civil authorities.
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5. Probably not, I think the BBC just wanted to add a bit of erotica...something for te ladies!
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I would dismiss the substitute and then abandon the game. As soon as I am, or any of my team is, assaulted then the game must stop. If the game had to continue then I would dismiss him and allow the team to continue with 11 players. UEFA would then charge the player.
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The substitution has been completed so the team would not be reduced to 10 men. However the the offender would still be sent off and the misconduct reported to the appropriate authorities, who would then decide on the length of any ban.
I find that a lot of footballers seem to think that the referee decides (or is involved in deciding) how long a ban/how much a player is fined - this is not the case.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
31 Is that your fantasy? You need to try another website, maybe a little bit more 'specialist' than this one!
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sorry about that, just a little bored at work and the answer to this one seems fairly obvious...
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The player should be shown a red card and the incident reported to UEFA. the punishment would be the same as a violent conduct dismissal although Spain would not lose a player.
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Once again the artwork is the best thing about this poser.
As is evident from the answers above, almost everyone is aware that, providing the original player has left the field and the substitute has entered, then the substitution is complete (regardless of what the referee thought he was doing in Cheshunt!!).
If the match continued (which it probably would at the Euros, eventually) Spain's opposition would play on with 11 men. The offender would be shown a red card. The number of available substitutes would NOT be reduced.
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Variation on the human pyramid question 8:
What if van der Sar, instead of being held, had simply jumped, but had used the shoulders of one or two team-mates to push himself higher when making the jump? Or (ouch) had jumped onto, and kicked himself higher off a team-mate's hip?
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What if the forth official hit him back?
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The player would be executed for the rest of his life...if ever he lives that long.
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With reference to comment 37. I would love to see that, I would say to the fourth official you have done football a service have a knighted or what ever you want, but please hit him twice as hard as he did you.
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However, if the fourth official DID hit him back, then the official would instead be red-carded. And with him the rest of the officials for complicity. The game would then continue without the officials. And the players would be free to punch each other without fear of penalty.
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The ref can give the substituted player a red card, which will obviously mean a long term ban for the player in question. Furthermore the official could go to the police - file a report of grievous bodily harm, have the player arrested and god willing have him thrown in jail.
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With reference to #41 from 'You Are The Ref 8' earlier today:-
Thanks Andrew M.
That does answer my question (singular).
As I thought, there is no need for the ball to leave the penalty area, by whatever mode, for the goalkeeper to handle it again.
It was just that the adjudication for 'Ref #3' was explicit, and apparently incorrect, on this issue.
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not a great question i must say. it is very unrealistic. the first 8 were much more realistic and interesting. nobody from the team of the player (who punched the official) can be sent off as substitution is complete. however, the subbed can receive a red, sent to the stands and given a ban of more than four games.
this incident is beyond football and the official has the right to support him for assault ( probably not ABH or GBH, unless he hit him really hard!) and press charges, then fifa and uefa would be powerless.
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Re 36:
he has not done anything wrong if he climbs on a TEAMMATES shoulder but if he kicks them to give himself a boost (and the referee or linesmen see this) then it is a free kick for dangerous play.
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Here is a suggestion for "Ask the Ref".
A team have a free kick near the opposition area.
Four or five players seem to be in a discussion around the ball. The referee blows for the kick to be taken. The players stay tightly together in a huddle around the ball . One player takes the kick, which travels the full distance of the circumference, but they keep it between them as they surround the ball.
They then slowly "walk" their huddle towards the goal, each person touching the ball in turn, to prove they are within playing distance of the ball, and continue on into the net.
The opposition cannot get to the ball in the middle of their huddle as they are all playing the ball and shielding it at the same time.
Does this count as a goal?
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I would like to know: When is the substitution completed? Is it when the 4th official holds up the board with the numbers of the players involved? Is it when the substituted player leaves the pitch? Or is it when the new substitute enters the pitch?
If the substitution has been completed, then the offender is treated just as any other teammate not active. He is red carded, sent to the dressing room, and authorities are notified. The game should go on 11 v 11, with the new sub playing.
If however, the substitution had not been completed, it is void. The offender is red carded and sent off, and his team is now down to ten men. The sub never became active. If he is to become active, he must be subbed for another active teammate.
I don't know of a rule whereby the offender's team must relinquish a substitution due to the red card. Is this some notion of a change to the rules?
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Re: Question 8. I'm not sure what is unsporting about lifting your own player? As a post below asks: what would happen at the other end if a defender did it? Surely a commendation for quick thinking!
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I think it's a bit harsh to book Van Der Sar for scenario 8. How do we know he had any say in the matter?
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Should the referee consider abandoning the game as clearly the level of control he is exercising is insufficient? Would then be up to EUFA to determine winner.
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The player who hit the official gets arrested for assault, the referee ensures he has a 4th official suitable for action, perhaps he brings on a substitute official, and the game continues. Alternatively, if he doesn't feel the game should continue, he abandons it.
As far as I know, the ref can't take any action against the player, as he has already left the field of play.
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RE # 47
I certainly think lifting your own player is attempting to gain an unfair advantage over the other team. So I have no problem booking the players involved for unsporting behavior.
As for the defenders trying the same trick - if there is no advantage gained to them (as it would appear there is not), I would just play advantage to the other, attacking side. If the defenders have their own trick backfire on them, so be it.
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how do you post scenarios???
i know it isnt to do with the situation but im getting frustrated?
an answer would be much apreciated
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I would send the player off for violent conduct, and then deduct one substitutes from the total amount allowable eg if he was the first sub then there will only be one more allowed for that team. If the fourth official is injured and unable to continue then consideration should be given to abandoning the match and perhaps the police should be called and the player prosecuted for assault or GBH.
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#12
Every definition of the expression sine die that I have ever read states that it means indefinitely either directly or implicitly.
The expression literally translates as "without a day", so effectively the player would be banned without an end date being specified.
Since the length of ban the player must serve is clearly open-ended, and not definite, then by implication a sine die ban is an indefinite one.
That does not necessarily mean permanent, though.
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foolman87
You can submit a scenario using the comments on this - or any other - You Are The Ref - entry.
We'll pick them up and add them to our list.
I can't promise it will get used as an actual You Are The Ref but hopefully we will let you know Keith Hackett's answer at some stage.
Does that make sense?
Regards
Andrew
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don't be ridiculous. you can't be thrown in jail just for assault. Under current law, he could stab the ref and still get away with a "suspended" jail sentence
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The exact scenario happened to me this year. The player coming off for me was first cautioned for swearing. As the sub was made, he continued insulting the ref, and was shown a second yellow and a red. But to my delight and relief, I was allowed to carry on coz he was already outside and the sub was made!
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Player is red-carded anyway and reported to the necessary authorities. Substitute is allowed to enter and play carries on.
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Post 45 would also be unsporting behaviour and so it would be a free kick to the defending team.
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The substitution is not complete until the ball is back in play therefore the player who has hit the offical will be sent off and therefore unable to be substituted. If the sub is to come off one of the other 10 players left on the field must come off and Spain will be playing 10 players
The player who did the punch will presumably be banned for a long time if not for ever.
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As he is off the pitch and his replacement has received permission to enter as inferred in the question then the substitution is complete.
I don't think the sine die ban exists anymore but the resulting ban would be hefty.
I'm sure this has been asked and answered before too
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even though the subsitution has been made the player that threw the punch can still be sent off so a sending off is what i would give
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Sub has been made so he is sent off but the team is not restricted to 11 players as the sub has been completed.
The important part here is that the sub is completed by him walking off the pitch and the sub walking on, should he be 'subbed' and on his way off hits someone then the sub has not been completed so the team is down to 10 men
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The offending player is already off the pitch, so the ref would get FIFA to take action.
For striking an official, i think fifa would ban the guy from playing professional football ever again.
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they do post a lot of violent you are the ref questions here... sheesh, are these the kind of things that actually go on in peoples heads???
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Right, let's clear things up a little:
Law 3 states:
"A substitute only enters the field of play when the player being replaced has left and after recieving a signal from the referee.
"A substitution is complete when a substitute enters the field of play.
"From that moment the substitute becomes a player and the player he has replace ceases to be a player."
There is no mention about the ball needing to be back in play. So, as things stand in this scenario, the sub is already on, making our shirtless thug inactive. Play restarts 11 vs 11 and the police will be dispatched to feel his collar (or would be if he was still wearing his shirt).
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#10- For you side comment, the team's number of substitution's shouldn't be reduced as the player coming off now cannot be sent back onto the pitch, therefore you would be punishing the team for one players actions. also have you considered that this may be the final substitution?
my own little scenario for you:
Spain are playing Germany in the Final of the Euro's, 0-0 with a corner to Spain. Ballack is man marking Torres. when the cross comes in, Ballack gives Torres a wedgie. the ball flies through everyone and out for a goal-kick to the Germans. however, if torres made his run he would have met the ball and had a goalscoring opportunity. what would you do?
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#38. "Executed for the rest of his life"! Was I the only one to chuckle at that statement?? Going back to the senario, I still think a rule should come in that would effectively reduce the reamining substitutions by 1 for the rest of the game. If it is the 3rd sub, then he just gets banned for the rest of his life, or just executed!!
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Since the player has already been substituted off, he is no longer part of the game, but can be given a red card just as an other substitute can be without reducing the team to 10 men.
However, due to the nature of this, I would imagine the player would be seriously reprimanded, a long ban would be given, a fine could be issued, and if deemed serious enough, the fourth official could press charges against the player as his actions are completely out of order
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What's Joey Barton doing at the euro's?
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i dont see howthey can be reducded to ten but the player would get a massive suspension
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The team will not be reduced to 10 men as the substitution has taken place. The player who punched the fourth official will recieve a red card for his actions, meaning he will receive the appropriate suspension that goes with this.
Its a similirish situation to what happened at the end of Celtic v Rangers this season, where Gary Caldwell and Davie Weir were given red cards in the referee's room for punching each other after the final whistle.
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This actually happened in a match in about 1989, Tommy Burns was subbed off for Celtic but received a red card as he left the pitch for dissent. As the sub had already entered the field, though, Celtic played on with all 11 men.
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I think the general consensus is that the game would carry on 11 v 11.
The offending player however would get much more than a 3-6 game ban. Remember Di Canio shoving the ref? He got something like a 6 month ban.
If a player struck a referee as such, he would be banned for at least a year I would imagine
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Whatever the answer the person who comes up with/draws these things clearly doesn't have a great opinion of Italy!
I'd say that the player sent off has already been substituted so it would stay as 11 v 11, but the subbed player would most likely get quite a long ban.
I'm still annoyed about yesterdays question, whats unsporting about that someone please explain!
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dicanio only got a matter of games, on top of a club ban and all because the ref took a dive
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It is a cracking punch though !!*
Reminds me of the one Lennox Lewis floored Mike Tyson with.
* not that I advocate or condone violence against match officials in any way.
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Like a majority of people here have said so far, no player on the field has commited an offence as the substitution has been made.
The player approaching the bench would be red carded anyway, and I would expect to see him arrested and cuffed for assult on the touchtine by the old bill nearest to him - in front of everyone to make an example of him and to show that this would not be tollerated.
'tis a cracking punch though as companygimp said!
But, what happens if he's KO'd the 4th official and he needs to go to hospital? Do they have any substitute officials at the match? You'd think not as this is an extremely unlikely scenario - the game surely can not continue with only 3 officials.
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the player is rushed to hosptal to have an operation on his stomach. its completley deformed and could be the worst hernia (s) in football history.
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Where I disagree with General Melchett is that full backs should not be be equipped with heavy machine guns.
If, alternatively, the officials were lightly armed, nothing too lethal - perhaps a taser and pepper spray that would sort the discipline issues out in a trice.
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my guess would be he would be shown the red card, but the team would still have 11 players, but this will mean a ban for the next game with the potential of a further ban once dealt with by uefa or whoever.
it's like when you see players on the bench getting booked for mouthing off too much to officials.
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surely as in other game recently a player was shown a yellow card whilst on the bench, may of been an italian player, this is the same.
The player gets a red card, his team still has 11 players on the pitch and he is given a big fine with a long suspension.
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As the substitution has already been completed, the team can carry on with 11 players.
The offending player would obviously recieve a red card for violent conduct and be reported t the competition. The ban would be considerable, possibly even a life ban for striking an official.
The referee could also consider abondoning the game as an assault on the match officals is an extremely serious offence.
After consulting the other match officals, including the 4th official he would make his decision.
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#67 "Ballack give Torres a wedgie.... what would you do?"
Is laugh the wrong answer??
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If the fourth official happens to be Uriah Rennie, then give the player a medal!
If not, send him off and his team continues as normal with 11 men and no idea how much added time there will be at the end of the half!
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I have a question for You are the Ref and would be really grateful if someone could help!
It is the final of the European Championships between the Netherlands and Germany and it drags on to a penalty shootout. On the first penalty, Ruud Van Nistelrooy steps and blasts the ball into the back of the net. However, as Jens Lehmann dives to save it, he knocks himself out on the post and is completely unable to continue. Can he be substituted? Do the Dutch players continue taking penalties into an empty net? What happens???
thanks, manutd2munich1.
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Just as an idle speculation about the Red Card ...
The player is no longer part of the match, unlike the unused subs (players in waiting) the team coaches (tactical advisors) he is in effect a spectator.
The referee cannot punish a spectator any manner. The referee can not punish squad members not picked for the match. The referee cannot punish a player on another pitch. The referee cannot red card the player for hitting the 4th official in the night club after the match...
Just when does the referee's control over a player end in a case like this?
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surely the same had a player from the bench done it, as it wasn't an active player - he would be sent to the stands/dressing room and probably awarded a ban and fine
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Question; A corner comes over and an attacking player volleys the ball towards goal, it hits a defender, who is standing on the goal line, on the chest and is kept out, but the player fall backwards. He holds onto the post to stop himself falling as the ball is again hit towards goal. This time the defender clears the ball with his foot whilst still holding onto the post. He wouldn't have been able to do this without the aid of the goal post as he was off balance. Would this be allowed? If so, in the same scenario, if the initial volley was going towards the top corner of the goal and the played lifted himself up using the crossbar to head clear would this be allowed? Both situations use the goal to gain an advantage.
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How do I post my own scenario?
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Its already been said really:
They can't send off the player that has already came on. So they would continue with 11 men, but the player who hit the official would be fined/banned, and perhaps the police would be involved? Assault?
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they stay with 11 players. but if the player coming on punched the ref they would be down to 10 men
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O.K.
It is England v Brazil in the world cup final (we can dream cant we).
Capello has sprung a selectorial surprise and picked Keith Harris and Orville at centre forward.
The game starts and England immediately attack forcing a corner. The kick comes in and Orville rises like a salmon (we all know he can’t actually fly) and powers an unstoppable header past the Brazilian keeper. Cue wild celebrations. However on the bench the Brazilian management have realised that instead of the expected Rooney at centre forward they are in fact facing said Harris/Orville combination. They begin to protest that;
a) Orville’s header is technically handball
b) Technically England have 12 players on the field.
Keith, what do you do?
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Torres....@90
I think you just put it in here and they'll either draw a photo of it or KH will answer it one day next week.
Here's a lovely offside one :
Lehmann gets the ball and after waiting 6 secs (more but he gets away without a booking for a change!), he boots it up field from the edge of his area.
All the Germans have gone up tpo halfway, and all the Spanish are there apart from El Nino and Villa (david, not Aston!) . Torres stands on the corner of the 18yard box, and Villa stands by a corner flag (where a swarthy ball boy is waiting with a spare ball behind his back)
The ball lands at Alonso's feet at the half-way line, and he half-volleys it over Lehmanns head and towards the goal. Torres and Villa clearly not interfering with play at this stage.
Lehmann tips it over the bar, but the Germans are horrified to see from the halfway line that the ball boy has given the spare ball to Villa as soon as the save's been made, and before the Germans can re-group, Villa passes it to Torres (still on the corner of the 18yd box) who takes it round Lehmann and slots it home without fuss, bother, trickery or TEARS!!!
Question is, does the goal stand or are the two Spanish forwards deemed to be offside?
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I mean of course, that Villa takes the corner with the spare.
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MattChall, are you addressing Keith Hackett or Harris?
If I were Harris I'd describe it as the "Hand of Duck" and if Hackett, I'd have noticed this infringement of dress code before the kick-off and would have booked Harris (for a summer season at Rhyl)
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realluisgarcia:
Question is addressed to Keith Hackett.
I suppose England would get away with it if Capello had picked Chuckles the monkey .......no-one would notice the difference between him and Rooney.
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realluisgarcia:
Re your scenario. I say goal.
Although I do believe that you should base future scenarios on reality!!.
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I think the team would be able to play on with 11 men, but the player would receive a life time ban, a big fine, and the club would be fined for failing to control there players!
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MattChall - I stand corrected! Will try harder!
Didn't Gascoigne once mistake Vinnie Jones for Lord Charles and tried to stick his hand up his workings?
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What a minute! I just realized something. Take a close look at that picture. The punch clearly misses. The official took a dive. And as such he should be yellow-carded by the remaining officials. He would of course red-card his fellow officials in retaliation. And at that point the player would be free to punch the official unconscious, since there would be no officials left to penalize him.
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How about this ..
Penalty shoot out .. 4-5 to Italy with the final penalty to go.
Torres steps up to take the final Penalty and as he runs up to the ball the Goalkeeper falls to the ground holding his head.
Torres side foots the ball into the net and peels off celebrating, while the goalkeeper holds up a coin with his blood stained hand.
Has the shoot out gone to sudden death or will the penalty be re-taken ?
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#102. You would flip the blood-stained coin to determine that.
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If the goalie dies, it's sudden death, if not the pen gets re-taken!
Good-one though, there's not been enough gore lately!
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*45
Probably in that situation the opposition players would merely shoulder charge one of the players in possession off the ball in order to break the circle, possibly while in the box so the goalkeeper could rush in and pick the ball up...Though it's equally likely a pitch invasion would occur in protest at such unsportsmanlike behaviour and the match would be abandoned. lol! :D
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Here's a more likely scenario than that Italy v France penalty hi-jinx one from a few days ago. And it's shorter -
Ref's boot comes off during the match. Player hits shot that is going well wide. Ball hits ref's boot and deflects into the top corner of the goal.
Does the goal stand ?
What if a ref's assistant drops his flag on the pitch, and a ball, that was originally going for an attacking throw-in, hits it, and goes out for a corner instead ??
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re #101 - EdMack
Take a closer look... I'm not convinced that it is actually a punch at all. What appears to have happenned is that the player has thrown down his shirt and picked up a large sheet with which he has attempted a one-handed 'smothering' of the official.
Does this constitute assualt or is it merely a gesture of consideration..?
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BlueStarIT, this is a follow up comment in response to my original offside question. you argued that because he was in an offside position then he was seemed to be gaining an advantage. another scenario then, you are stood in an offside position and the defender plays the ball back to his keeper which you read and intercept. in this instance wouldnt you be onside because the defender has passed the ball back? and what would be thie difference between this and my original question (you are the ref 6, post 71)?? thanks
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Re: 45. Someone at some point would be offside, no? Even if 'unsporting behaviour' didn't come into it.
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Re: 101. I think all these things are allowed. Just as if a ball hits the ref and then gives an unfair advantage to one side.
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I have a scenario suggestion:
It is the final of Euro 2008. Germany v Spain.
Its the last minute of extra time and the score is 0-0.
The Germans are happy with this as they are confident they will win on penalties.
Suddenly, Iniesta breaks lose down the right wing with Torres breaking out in the middle.
Fritz starts to catch-up with Iniesta and so, he crosses the ball. Torres chips it above Lehmann and scores!
You, the ref, saw that when the ball was crossed it was in front of Torres which means he was onside, but the Linesman puts up his flag.
Both teams crowd around you for the final decision, what do you do - go with what you saw or with the decision of the linesman?
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Your liensman is there to assist you, but ultimately it is the center's decision. The center must do what they feel is correct.
This scenario (the main one) is laughably easy, I don't see where all these strange answers are coming from. The player that decks the official is a substituted player, and as such he is shown the red card and dismissed. The team continues playing 11 vs. 11.
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Hi, Leachytothe - post #108
In your updated scenario, the player would be ONside because the defender has deliberately played the ball.
An attacker can only be ruled offside if the ball was last played or touched by a member of his own side.
'Played' indicates control, whilst 'touched' covers an inadvertant contact.
In the original scenario, the ball was 'played' by an attacker and the inadvertant 'touch' was by a defender. Therefore, last 'played' by an attacker, so OFFside.
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