- 21 Jun 08, 10:40 AM
Basel - 1,637 miles travelled
And before you start, it's not my statement but that of just about every local, travelling fan and journalist I have spoken to over here.
A typical conversation might go something like this.
Me: "Do you mind if I ask you a couple of questions about your team?"
Local/fan/journo: "Ok, where are you from?"
Me: "England."
Local/fan/journo: "Oh." Several seconds of silence follow. "I cannot believe England are not here. Such a disappointment"
A look of sympathy crossed with sorrow plus a dash of disbelief then follows, so I explain that England are not here because they were not good enough in qualifying, pure and simple.
Variations on this conversation have happened at regular intervals on my journey through Euro 2008. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure England's qualifying failure provided a rich amount of schadenfreude for plenty of people across all corners of Europe.
And I have a definite hunch that, although they would never admit it publicly, some of the authorities who had in organising the tournament were relieved when England lost to Croatia on that sodden Wembley night.
But what has really struck me out here is the genuine affection and regard in which people from all across Europe hold the English and their national team.
Yes, England have baggage, some of it unsightly, unwanted and downright ugly, and I have been in bars at previous major tournaments where what I have seen and heard has made me ashamed to be English, an apologist for my country.
But if the passion of the vast majority of England's huge travelling support, their good humour and desire to have a good time becomes lost in a blizzard of negative headlines at home, then it does not seem to be the case elsewhere.
And for every occasion I have seen shameful behaviour from England fans over the years there have been numerous other instances when their unswerving, vocal loyalty to their team, their desire to mix with other nations and embrace what a major tournament is all about has made me proud to be English.
It has also obviously made an impression on the foreigners that have witnessed it.
The high profile of the Premier League and many of its star players also ensures that many people from other European countries are as familiar with English football as you and I.
I was talking to a Dutch journalist the other day who waxed lyrical about how he follows a complicated pattern of taping Match of the Day, Match of the Day 2 and various other live matches to ensure he does not miss any of the action. I was both amazed and disturbed by the man's dedication.
However, read some of the comments on the BBC's Euro 2008 blog and the absence of England from this summer's big football tournament is clearly a touchy subject.
Lots of people have made it clear that they think England should not be mentioned at all, that banging on about them is somehow sacrilegious to the brilliant competition unfolding without them. The philosophy seems to be that England didn't qualify, so let's forget all about them for a few weeks.
This may or may not be the right approach, though I would be a liar if I said I hadn't thought about what difference it would have made if England had been here. But what has really struck me is the genuine affection with which England and their supporters are held across Europe.
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Fletch's view of Euro 2008
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I am glad England arn't there. England are very boring and as a Liverpool fan I can't stand the over hype over many of the players. In particular Beckham, Lampard, and Rooney. Everytime they do the slightest thing good it gets blown out of proportion. Definitly club before country.
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i think the turnaround in peoples' attitudes to england and their fans really began when you hosted the euros. That was a great advertisement for football and England in general........that and the end of the hooligan national front brigade.
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The overall sentiment here is that it's a pity none of the British teams managed to qualify. But then, we are the Dutch and we traditionally view the British as our closest allies we share many ties with.
What I'm trying to say is, if you want a neutral view, don't ask a Dutchman.
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I'd like to think so - the negative stuff all comes through British/English tabloids, people would appreciate it a lot more if they went to the tournament and watched the football and interacted with all the real england fans and the foreign ones
Part of me can't wait for Euro 2008 to be over so we can reclaim some dignity and start competing again, of course this has been one of the best tournaments in a while so I don't want to in that regard
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Though the English reputation may not be as bad in certain countries as it presumed in the UK, in think such comments may be explained by politeness rather than any genuine sincerity. Time and time again an English minority has caused havock abroad, and though they are of course a minority, they are significant enough to shape perceptions of English fans.
That said, in my travels especially outside Europe, England are viewed as a very cool and fashionable team. With guys like Beckham in the team, many countries see England as a fashion icon more than anything (China in particular comes to mind). Even so, in a European context, I cant imagine too many people shedding a tear for England- certainly not the Germans, French, Italians, Turks, or indeed the majority of Scots, Irish, and Welsh. There are far better fans out there who could have made a far more positive impact on the tournament than the English.
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the one thing i would say is that there is way too much waffling by comentators about england and how they would have done. you're there to commentate on the match ....for everyone in the UK not just england fans.The classic one so far has 'Englands Nemsis versus englands nemisis'..description of two of the teams at beginning of their quarterfinal match.....WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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As a football follower of some 45 years I have never been so glad that England are not participating. I am as patriotic as anybody but I believe you should only progress on merit and there's no hiding the fact that England players, however good they are for their respective clubs, just don't perform for country. Frankly they are usually an embarrassment.
I haven't seen any team at Euro 2008 that England wouldn't struggle against. Why? Because they all either play with incredible passion or skill or common sense...or all three. This has been an issue for England for some years now and it will be interesting to see how the new regime changes things. I am not optimistic because, as a previous contributor suggested, our game is blighted by mega-hype where players are told how brilliant they are beforehand - and how awful after the event. I despise this aspect of our game and it has been so refreshing to be liberated from it this time around.
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maybe a shame from a football point of view but British fans have a high percentage of drunken scum who want to trash bars, gang up on smaller groups of fans and p in the street. The tournament in Holland\Belgium and Rangers in Manchester are proof of this and anyone who disagrees has not been there
or has another agenda.
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Having travelled to watch England several times overseas, I can generally say that we are better appreciated outside of our own press!
In Germany 2006, 90000 England fans turned up in Gelsenkirchen. There was very little trouble that night. I'm sure a medium sized town with 90000 residents has a few minor idiots at any given time, nevermin 90000 who have seen there dreams shattered and getting over it by drowning their sorrows!
AS for the "No Surrender" comment, that is a slur on all of England's true supporters!
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On the other hand, the people you spoke to could just have thought (a) Blimey, he's an English fan, I'd better say something soothing in case he goes off, or more likely (b) they were simply being polite, and making conversation.
I don't think that the other Europeans waste a moment's thought thinking "Just imagine how much better the tournament would be if England / Scotland / Republuc of Ireland were here". Why should they? If they support one of the countries there, they just want them to do well, and want the rest of the experience to be as good in footballing terms as it can be.
For them (and too often for us too) there's more pleasure to be had from seeing a potential emerging team eg the Russians, the Spanish, or the current Dutch team, than in following the British teams, who, let's face it, have an inherent tendency to plod. If we make it to a competition, then fine, let the teams test themselves at that level. If they don't make it, as in this case, then whether they might have added (or subtracted) anything from the tournament is simply an irrelevance.
We should have a degree of humility and accept that this time, we were all not quite up to the required standard, enjoy what's on offer in this championships, and hope that we can add to the next one.
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Possibly the worst, most pitiful, article ever written. England aren't there because they quite obviously aren't good enough. Stop pining and use your time more constructively, or, let someone else have a go at your job, your clearly a waste of the bbc's money!!
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I have to agree with Hail_Hail on this one.. I think this misty eyed opinion the English have about what everyone else thinks of them is sadly miss guided.
And this isnt helped in the uk when on almost every brodcast or written article the media feel the need to comment on what if, if only or we could have..your not!! you did'nt!! and you couldnt have....So please just get on with it and let the rest of us brits enjoy a marvelous competition without the constant reference to the once mighty England.
In my opinion the Scots, Welsh and both Irish teams and fans are missed far more in these competitions than the English
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England? Never heard off!
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Football wise, Russia and Croatia have been responsible for more entertainment at Euro 2008 than England have in their previous few major tournaments.
The major benefit however of England's absence has been the more rounded reporting on other teams in this fantastic tournament. Rather than continually reverting back to find out what the England camp are having for dinner, we have enjoyed a more in-depth look and the other teams and managers competing and enjoyed a greater insight the wider European football community.
I for one am not missing England on this occasion!
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It saddens me that even in this thread/post some cannot rise above focusing on the bad behaviour of a minority. The vast majority of travelling England fans bring atmosphere, humour and colour to football tournaments and this I believe is missed by genuine and unbiased fans everywhere.
If people celebrated what the majority achieve rather than moan about the appalling behaviour of a minority we might genuinely get somewhere.
As for Frank Castle - I think your comment says more about the pubs you frequent than the general behaviour of most genuine fans.
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Well I live in Europe, I can guarentee there is not so much affection. It's a better tournament without the English, it's even better to read the BBC high standard journo football reports because of it...None of the blind dedication, none of the hype, just good football teams and really bad refs...
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Fictionhead - tell the defenseless locals who've just had their head jumped on by a fat Geordie that the majority of England fans are charming and colorful.
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What a load of self-obsessed drivel! You didn't qualify - get over it! And even if you had you'd probably have been knocked out by this stage anyway.
Northern Ireland haven't qualified for anything since 1986 but even still I haven't sat through every major tournament since trying to delude myself that the rest of the world misses us or even remotely cares that we're not there - that somehow by us not being there the tournament suffers. I hate to break it you but its not true about England either.
Apologies, for sounding as if I'm revelling in your demise - I'm honestly not. The fact is that the English are lucky to be from a country that regularly qualifies for these events. Spare a thought for the little guys who only ever qualify for major tournaments once in a generation - if they're lucky.
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There is surely also a rich seam to be mined of recording some of the media's thoughts on the tournament as being not "Euro2008" but something more like "England Aren't At Euro2008". An example...
A radio station (not the BBC) sending a reporter to Zurich just before the competition started, and going to a bar, where he asked the people there "what team do you support?". The first bemused answer was "Well...of course I am supporting Switzerland." The reporter came back with "No...I meant which English Premier team do you support". He then went round them all prompting the stock "Man United", "Chelsea" and "Arsenal" responses. Really entering into the right spirit there!
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I'm glad England aren't in the euros to be honest. Although it is dissapointing I am really enjoying watching other countries without worrying about how badly England are playing.
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what a self centred piece of nonsense, should not even be giving this the time, but im bored, i thot i lived in britain with 4 countries, yes 4 into 1, wales,scotland,n.ireland,england, so why do the people at the beeb and certain commentators only talk about england and if england were there they could win this game and win that game and blah blah blah, because they are biased thats why!!! and they continue to get the tv license money out of the british public, not even a mention of northern ireland scotland or wales, its corrupt, as for englands chances (nil) would not even got out the group stages and i say that cos im an outsider looking in as england are a mediocre team but unfortunately many englishmen just cant admit it, and as for being liked over europe, WELL???? does anyone english really want the answer??? we all know that one!!!!
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England aren't at a major tournament and long may it continue!
I'm from the republic of Liverpool and as always, it is definitely club before country. However, when England get to a tournament, I usually get consumed in the hype and neglect the brilliant football happening elsewhere, as all the media coverage centralises on England.
This time, however, I feel I am beginning to understand better the intricacies of the tactical battle, as well as the importance of technical skill to excel.
It's also great for scouting purposes. As English players are so heavily inflated (Barry, £20m? Please...) it is worth looking at some of the excellent players you never hear of around the continent and identify whether they can 'cut' it at your club.
All we need now is a set of commentators who can be unbiased and commentate of the performance of players as it happens, rather than concentrating on players who have a tenuous link to our shores.
So, England aren't there, and I'm glad. Long may it continue...
Bring back McLaren!
Well, not quite, but get someone cheaper than Capello to underachieve...
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I feel sorry for Paul Fletcher, here he is in the middle of probably the best football tournament in recent memory and he is writing articles about England not being there, you think someone might have mentioned that before he left and then he could stop clogging the BBC website with drivel about how fans are missing England (their probably just blowing smoke up your a** and in reality they've forgot all about England but are too polite to belittle them to your face) then we might see some quality journalism about fans of teams who are actually involved in the tournament, not the hypothetical events that would have happened if England did qualify.
I'm sure everyone on these boards would rather here about encounters with those crazy dutch fans, or minglng with the Germans, basically anything other than harping on about england. This is exactly why England are the most hated footballing nation in Europe, your arrogance is simply beyond belief, this has been a superb tournament of attacking football with some amazing goals, yet you believe that everyone across europe is crying into their pillows at night because England are not gracing the tournament, in fact UEFA are so dissapointed they'll give England the trophy, afterall they would have definately won it if they had have been there so none of the other teams deserve it!!
Try writing some articles that are of relevance to the tournament as I can assure you that no one is even remotely interested in England not being there.
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I am an Englishman (half Scot), however I'm not the biggest fan of England or Scotland football teams. (this may be due to the fact that Im a newcastle fan, and i think there is a little bit more pessimism that far north than down south...possibley).
Anyway I moved to Vienna 3 months ago and am enjoying the atmosphere of the tournament so much.
Overall I am extremely pleased that England have not qualified, despite the stick and teasing I have received (despite repeated attempts to say im not a fan). I have never seen an english game and cannot fairly say how our fans act abroad. However I can see how others fan act.
Last night Turkey beat Croatia. Vienna is full with Turks and Croats, and the atmosphere was electric, especialy from the turks. The area I live in has a huge population of trurks and all night there was nothing but pure joy. croatians took some stick but there was (as far as i could see), nothing that crossed the line.
In general I feel that the violence and bacd behaviour eminents from the big teams and quite frankly Id be happy to see england spain italy and germany all fail to qualify next time, because other fans show us how to truely appreciate the game.
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im a massive england and scotland fan cos i was born and raised in england but all my family including my parents are scottish but this is all garbage.
england dont have the mandate of heaven to automatically qualify for tournaments.
the only thing that makes england better than scotland is that they won a tournament that they hosted 42 years ago.
the two countries were always better than wales, ireland etc in the home championships but right back from the 19th century scotland were better you can look at the records.
sure england have had their periods of dominance but only in very modern times have scotland fallen behind england a substantial amount and had scotland hosted a world cup in the 70s i wouldnt have bet against us.
im sad that no home countries qualified but considering northern irelands brave fight to the last match against spain in a tough group and scotland in the group of death, beating france twice and only needing to beat georgia to guarantee qualification before the italy match (a fact which still angers me losing to georgia) i dont think this article should even have been written.
i hope that england and scotland (and the rest of the home countries) do well in the world cup but england dont deserve to be in any more than the rest of the home nations
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Now then,
Thanks for your comments so far.
I feel the need to clarify a couple of points.
I'm not pining for England, heartbroken by their absence. This tournament has been a cracker, I'm loving it and long may it continue.
It was never my intention to write an article about England - but I felt it was important to discuss what had happened to me in terms of meeting so many people who seemed to have so much time for England.
I take the point some have made that it could just be a case of people humouring me but I think it has happened too often for that theory to hold water. And also, it is not as though I have led people into their response by saying something like "don't you wish England were here?".
I honestly believe that alot of people out here would have liked it if England were (or at last had been) here.
And I fully subscribe to the view that they were not worthy of their place - as I said in the piece.
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Sorry forgot to add that, Paul Fletcherf is apsolutely correct. Every fan is asking about england. This is a trueth, not just because I am english when i speak, but because england is a world cup winner, a big team and the so called inventers of the world game.
Every country has a greater love of the england football team than you would expect.
The reason why other fans dont care about ieland wales scotland and n ireland is for the exact same reason why you care when germany qualify and not austria switzerland poland denmark. Its not to do with the size of nation but to do with the quality of players, their media coverage and there footballing history.
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You must be joking, people are just being polite to you, are you so naive?... everyone I have spoken to couldn't give a toss about the over rated England team not being there, even if England had qualified they would be out after the first round, not before the obligatory drunken fan rampage the English do so well, and then Blame the local police. Good riddance I say!
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England are not there because you were beaten by a team of technicaly better players.
The very fact your talking about england during a tournament of such entertainment and skill further underlines why you are not missed ther by the majority of fans.I merely think you bumped into a bunch of polite journo/fans.
God help us all if England ever do win another major trophy.We will be hearing about it for another 50 years
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England's strikers wouldn't get into any teams at the tournament other than the hosts, Greece and possibly Turkey. All the foreigners benefit the EPL but definitely not the national team, we've even had two foreigners and McLaren as our last three managers. The next time we're at a World Cup we might be hosting it and I reckon Scotland would pump us and Northern Ireland would run us close. As for the commentators on the BBC I definitely think it's time to freshen things up!!
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Croatia and Slaven Billic have been amazing, no hype, humble in defeat - they have shown exactly why football is a great game. Why would anyone want England there instead of them?
As a Scot (I don't hate the English) I would really miss MOTD, the EPL is pure class, but for me the majority of the stars are not English. I don't think the Euros miss Scotland we play pretty dull football but yes I miss us not being there.
Get over yourself Mr Fletcher I can't believe you are even dragging this up. No one cares except the English.
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And in response to kierean
Ask any tournament organiser or fan which set of fans they would rather there English or Irish?
Most fans including irelands know how to enjoy a tournament and get behind there team without smashing up city centres in drunken riots.
Yes England must surely be missed by swiss and austrian locals???
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Why on earth would europe be pining from the absense of england? England have no devine right to be at every tournament especially when their "world class" players such as Gerrard and Lampard, where severly shown up by the desire of the Croatians and Russians, and Englands meant to be the best league in the world? I think not my friends.
There is a severe lack of depth in English football that all are blind too due to the strength of "the big 4" if the league was so strong, Everton or Spurs would have reached the Uefa cup final. The gap between Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool, and the rest of the league is far too great to make it the best league in the world.
I can't be botherd going on and on, but if your honest with yourselves, you'll know i'm right.
Hail Hail Celtic Champions of Scotland 08/09
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Hey fictionhead, so if 1 guy out of 10 goes around kicking people we should all just look the other way?
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Well even though England didnt deserve to qualify after the pathetic performance those over payed players gave us all, a Euro or World cup isnt complete without them. England are one of the countries that have to be present, like Germany and Italy otherwise its not worth watching really. Funnily enough, it has been boring to date, apart from Holland. Good on you lads, at least you can put on a Pro-show !
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at least the team that knocked us out knows what it feels like to go out in the quarter finals on penalties
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Is Kiraen Paul Fletcher in disguise?
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Wow yeah! We really miss the gangs of red painted beer bellied thugs thrashing cafes and vomiting in the street (Only high spirits, don't you know). And we miss the quality and skill of inch perfect passes. Yeah right
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The teams that DID qualify from the England group are proving themselves to be among the best.
The enthusiastic fans might be missing, but they have been replaced by enthusiastic Croatian and Russian fans who (from TV reports) seem to be "hooting-and hollering" quite well.
England now needs to put effort into national team development to ensure World Cup finals. For the distant future, that must include player development, too. You can't ignore the composition of England's national professional league - the EPL.
Mostly I miss Scotland. Thought they had it this year.
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I'm watching the Euros in Portugal (i'm English though) and the Portuguese did seem genuinely unhappy that we didn't make it through... not because of the spectacle of football we bring, or our "great" fans, that they (and I) saw 1st hand 4 years ago smashing all the shop windows and fighting the police.............
No, they were unhappy because they just see us as an easy pass through to the semi finals.
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Bulldog what on earth have you been watching? How can you say its been boring?
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Oh and one more thing for those unbelievers, I am English living in Germany, I witness almost every commentators reports on TV here, quite often it is stated " what would have happened when England qualified" so yes, we are missed to a certain extent. It isnt the same without England, thats a fact !
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I am glad England arn't there. England are very boring and as a Liverpool fan I can't stand the over hype over many of the players. In particular Beckham, Lampard, and Rooney. Everytime they do the slightest thing good it gets blown out of proportion. Definitly club before country.
----
Didn't you forget Gerrard from that list as well? Most over rated midfielder ever.
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ive been following the euros in italy and i can assure no1 is missing england, people are surprised they didnt make it but thats it, its been a brilliant tourny so far, so to say "its a shame eng didnt make it" is a joke!
anyways its was about time eng were found out, they have been mediocore to rubbish for the last 20yrs (euro 96 excluded)
its prob the best thing that couldve happened to you, at last some serious reflection and wow!! a good manager!!!
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Yeah ok given its not soooo boring, I was really dissapointed with the Italian, Portugese and French performances. Its only really Holland and maybe Turkeys resilliance that has shon so far...
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One of many good things about Englands absence is the improved enjoyment of the halftime analysis.
I always hated it when I was watching a world cup or Euro match that didn't involve England, when at halftime Lineker and his cronies would pay quick lip service to the first half.
Then Gary would smile as if to say " enough of this, lets go to the England camp and see what's really important and find out how much David Beckhams toenails have grown in the last 2hours, has Wayne got another spot on his chin or did Sven put his slippers outside his hotel room last night?"
So in this competition it's great to concentrate on what's happening on the pitch.
But Motty doesn't change, he still manages to find an England link to every player on the park.
I don't supose the Swiss and Austrians will be disappointed that they haven't been invaded by fat, tattooed, balding, vomitting, racist vandals.
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Euro 2008 = best Euro tournament of the last 20 years... England not there... coincedence?
No!
I for one was absolutely overjoyed when England didn't qualify, one because of the attitude of the English press at the time and two because just simply put, they didn't deserve to qualify.
England will start to win tournaments when they stop thinking that they just deserve to win tournaments because they are England!
All this "England should be there" nonsense has actually been irritating, its good to see its died down but I think if ever was there a time to reinvent the arrogant attitude towards the English national team it was now, and some people have clearly missed the point!
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It's amazing ; England has so many foreigners footballers dominating English club football and you guys still wonder why England aren't participating on Euro 2008 and why England is just an average team !
And besides that ; they have a manager who hardly speaks English !
So go figure ;-)
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I'm an England fan but not a huge fan, I've been watching a match a day, every day since this tournament started and I'm absolutely loving it (supporting Spain due to girlfriend).
I don't doubt there are some fans who 'miss' (for want of a better word) us, I was disappointed when the Dutch didn't qualify for world cup/euros (can't remember) a few years ago, as they are one of the traditionally competitive nations, as are England.
Let me remind you, in 2004 we went out in an amazing game against Portugal, one of the most exciting games whether you were a fan or not, I reckon.
In 2002 we gave Brazil, the best in the world at the time, a good run for their money (let's not mention the subs).
'98 - Argentina
'96 - Germany
It's only as recently as the last world cup and the qualifiers that we've been terrible, due in my opinion to Mr McLaren.
But whether other fans really do have any sentiment for us I really don't much care and now is not the time to bring it up.
As I said I'm loving the tournament but I groan every time a commentator comes out with an England / Premier League (un)related comment.
An example last night:
"Rustu by the way wasn't in goal when Liverpool put 8 past Besiktas" (Pleat).
Who cares?!?! Is it relevant?
I wish I was fluent in Spanish so I could follow their coverage...
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In response to comments.
First of all Im not Paul Fletcher, Im better looking thanks.
Im not saying that I want england here (im half english!), I live in Vienna and even before the tournament began people have talked about englands absence. However its not the biggest thought in their head, but it is an important abcense for some people here.
secondly, no i dont think that tournament organisers are missing the english fans, i agree that they would prefer the scots or the irish, of course. I also think other teams are happier that england arnt here. there is a reputation that can scare a player, whereas the name russia, croatia and czech republic (better teams as they are than england and scotland) dont quite scare as much.
Fans on the other hand want them here (particularly if your neutral) as it does add a sense of authority to the competition. imagine a tournament without spain england holland germany italy or france and you will see what i mean.
last of all. in terms of the best fans here.
People arent gonna like what i say, but in Vienna the best, noisiest fans with the best songs i have so far seen are the Turks followed by the Germans.
Croatian and Czechs have been quieter, and the Austrians (dont tell my austrian girlfriend) have been frankly awful. Convinced of defeat and frankly not even paying attention to the game for long periouds.
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Mediocore, ? We are talking about football arent we LOL.
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It really irks me that the English media seem to think that England have a God given right to be at every tournament whether it is football, rugby, cricket etc. If you aren't good enough you shouldn't be there.
This is the case with the Euros. You were knocked out at the qualifying stages. JUST LIVE WITH IT!
Bringing up the England's past at every oportunity makes listening to a commentary on eg Spain v Italy very boring. I will give it 1 minute into the any game before we hear the normal "we should have been here, or we beat them years ago etc". Yawn, yawn.
Start commentating on the game in hand and remember, if England WERE good enough, they would be there.
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Can't we enjoy a tournament without England being mentioned all the bloody time? It's just putting a dampener on the fun for us all.
I'm sure other fans would rather see us Scots over there than the riot happy English.
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Flippin eck Fletch look what you have started!
Was at the fan zone here in geneva for the France v Italy game with some English mates. 5 mins after the final whistle the zone looked deserted, tumbleweed, eerie music - you get the pic.
Anyway we all commented that had it been Eng there is no way the party would have ended - win or lose.
But lets not forget the dire football we played trying to qualify for a European tournament - the irony of 2 premier league teams in the champions league final.
Ah well off to enjoy the sunshine of geneva - will miss the footie, this town is way too tame - know what we need? Some English passion!!!!
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I'm incredibly glad England aren't in it. As far as I'm concerned it has made the football incomprehensibly more enjoyable. Why on earth would any neutral in the world want to watch England hoof their way to a one nil win, giving up on attacking as soon as a goal goes in and generally just looking like they couldn't care less?
I would much prefer to watch the beautiful football that has generally been played so far by exciting, passionate teams supported by some absolutely amazing fans.
Watching this tournament has just shown me how far England are behind the rest of Europe in the style of their play and quite frankly I would much rather support almost any team than England. I would prefer England to put in Romania's effort pass it like Romania even if it means never getting past the group stages again because the passion and the excitement mean much more than results. The saddest part is that our players just don't seem to care.
I also think its a shame that people (BBC etc.) insist on doing articles about England and how much the tournament misses us. Absolute rubbish, if you're a fan, who would you talk to? The unbelieveably friendly Romanians and Dutch? The almost unnaturally friendly Turks? Or the group of hammered Englishmen in the corner shouting abuse? I've travelled to many different countries and while English people are certainly not the least friendly, don't kid yourself that they are anywhere near the most friendly.
And as for the idea that they might miss our football? Absolutely ridiculous, without question every one of our games would have been boring had we qualified and its extremely arrogant to think that this incredible football feast has missed us in the slightest.
I'm looking forward to five more fantastic games and then a world cup for which England (touch wood) haven't qualified.
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Drivel, terrible article.
England have not been missed remove the blinkers.
Affection for the English Football team/fans? From mainland Europe? Which planet are you on?
No, England Should not be mentioned at all during the coverage. The National side is not there becuase it was not good enough simple
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Oh and btw only one person could save the English team ;
Guus Hiddink :-)
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I agree, i was recently in turkey and there is a large population of turks in my area, and the turks are unbelievabley freindly and passionate, far far far more passionate than the english, and a particularly pleasing sight was seeing their celebrations two streets from me here in vienna. the turks are the recipients of so much racism in austria (as probably the largest non native ethnic group in vienna), and you could see how much it meant for the the turkish ex pats.
the germany turkey game will be a funny one and im glad its in basel, as both nations are disliked by a great deal of austrians.
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The several second of silence before responding is for the thought,
"How can I stay polite here? What will I say?"
The truth is,
"most people who have observed and met "England" as a fan group think of you as menacing and cultureless - no fun doesnt even begin to describe it."
I often find myself in the same predicament when speaking to the nice English people who make up the majority of the poulation of that country.
I could write a page or two on the subject but nothing that hasn't been written before.
The fact that the article was written at all says everything.
Ask your average European which group of fans they would rather meet again. Which do you think they would (not) chose.
English?
Scots?
Irish?
England didn't qualify.
BBC or EBC?
Yahoo UK or Yahoo England?
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No England? Hey no problem - And yes I'm English. We get the all matches on ESPNHD in California and the commentators have been good. No 'missing England' references being bandied about here thank goodness.
It's a fantastic competition this time around in every respect except as usual some of the 'official' decisions. ESPN uses something called AXIS 3D to show in instant replay how pathetically wrong some of the major decisions have been. I say, when a whistle blows inside the box during an international tournament such as this, the ref should call for instant replay before his decision.
I'm still stunned by the amazing Turkish goal after 120 minutes!
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If anyone reading this article is under the impression that I'm some kind of little Englander unable to simply appreciate the tournament that is unfolding before me feel free to have a look at one of my previous blogs:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/euro2008/2008/06/shaping_up_to_be_a_classic.html
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When you look at Mclaren now with hindsight, maybe he did ok with a squad of over-hyped and ultimately limited players. The footie Croatia played was light years ahead of England in these finals, and to see some of the play by Holland and, perhaps more surprisingly, Russia, it's no bad thing England's non-qualification didn't perpetuate the myth of them being a "world class team".
In any event, as others have said, to not have to read The Sun's drivel concerning the team, nor listen to the warblings of Shearer et al, it's been great for an Irishman such as myself to watch the tourney with such enjoyment.
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No one is missing England. The commentators on BBC and ITV ensure that at every opportunity state how England should be there because blah blah blah and how good they actually are blah blah blah...
Get over yourselves for christs sake.
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I am one of the most patriotic people you could ever hope to meet, i love my country dearly however I think the current England football team are a DISGRACE!
never mind the tournament missing us, i am just relieved to not having the embarassment of supporting a bunch of over hyped, over paid, under performing excuses for footballers who have completley lost the love of the shirt.
Good riddance!
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I think people should read the original article again. The Europeans do wish England were there, the money that the English spent in Germany in 2006 was astronomical. I am a travelling England fan, I interact with the locals when I am abroad and I have never heard any bad comments about the TRUE English football fans. We are liked throughout Europe, it is our Newspapers that say different.
The media in England need to stop all the hype about the team, they are overpaid and not good enough. Also they need to stop knocking the English fans.
We are all Europeans and we must not have a them and us attitude. I think this was a good article because it shows that most people do not realise that most Europeans do actually like the English.
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Well said perseptive striker, some people have obviously forgotten that England ALWAYS get to the quarter or Semi finals. I think that makes England one of the best in the world over the last 30 years( pretty obvious isnt it ). The same as Holland actually, a small drop out is allowed. It will happen to Italy and France as well soon if they also dont watch out for younger players. I found the comment of foreign players quite amusing too, its the same in every country, Italy, Spain and Germany, more foreign players than own nationals. The main thing is as far as I am concerned, the Englich do not bring in foreiners to play for the National teams ! ie Klose- Germany, Podolski-Germany, they are actually Polish ! Without them they are nothing. I wont mention the others, I aint writing a novel here, well trying not to anyway...
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I realize my previous post (no.8) wandered off the point somewhat so I would just add that I was on holiday in Vienna a couple of years ago when England was playing a qualifier there and although I didn't see any serious problems I did somehow feel really uncomfortable with masses of England-shirted beer swillers taking over a place of high culture and I can't imagine the locals (bar owners excepted) being too thrilled about the sheer noise and general intimidating atmosphere that prevailed. I don't expect any frequent match travellers to agree with this because when you are part of it you don't feel it yourself. I also imagine other nationals might feel the same but I also came across the Dutch contingent in Luxembourg and the atmosphere was altogether more family oriented.
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Rooney spends millions on a Hello! wedding and Beckham's getting his lunchbox and abs out for screaming girlies in San Francisco -- these two so-called "stars" epitomize why England aren't in the Euro 2008 Finals, because their priorities and energies are directed at everything but playing football. As for England, until they learn how to pass and keep possession of the ball, and play attacking football, then they're going to struggle qualifying for ANY tournament.
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steveramsfan wrote:
I think this was a good article because it shows that most people do not realise that most Europeans do actually like the English.
-------------------------------------------------------
I was at a bar in Spain last year at the resort I was staying at.
The barman was getting shouted at for service by the mostly English clientel (sp). I waited patiently and caught his eye and asked for my obligatory "dos cervezas, por favor"
I was wearing my N Ireland top at the time, and each subsequent time I went to the bar, I was always served before anyone else there. Just an observation...
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Paul,as a Scot who has nothing against English Football,I have to say that Your foreign friends are probably only being polite about missing England.
The fact is that this has been the most exciting Tournament in many years without the England National Side's drab style of play.Passionate fans ? .We have the Croatians,The Turks and The Dutch.
For Scots too,an International Football tournament is always a reminder of the need for Our own Broadcasting Service.
It seems all but impossible for commentators and pundits not to keep mentioning England,every comparision is with English football, and desperate efforts are made to link players to England ("And there is another player who's Grandmother once changed planes at Heathrow").
Most unedifying of all,is the fact that we have to endure the pundits snide comments about other Nations as they parade their racist predjudices derived from a simplistic view of History ( Germany because of WW2,Argentina,The Falklands War and France,I am not sure why !) and a huge inferiority complex.
England were not good enough to qualify and the reason for that is the importing of so many top foreign players.That was England's choice.You have to live with it.
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It is good therapy for England to not be here.
The quality has been amazing aside from that one odd match. With no England that's the only match that will be the exception to an otherwise fantastic tournament.
I just hope our players are watching and most importantly learning, because if they really want to be a worthy team of challenging for national competitions it will start here.
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The game after was in Poland, I was there. There were a lot of English Non-Football fans at both of those games. The Real Footballs element had a good time drinking WITH the local Polish fans, not just a group of England fans.
Btw I am English but I hate England, not all the English are drunks and louts. The majority are decent human beings.
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The above was in response to Post 76
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I was working in the Vienna fan park for the Holland - France game and suddenly heard strains of Fields of Athenry. The noisiest fans in the packed fan park were about half a dozen Irish lads.
Surely they should have been banned from the country and forced to stay at home wallowing in self pity or become BBC bloggers imagining "what might have been" as a result of Staunton's men failing to qualify?
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Well I'm thoroughly enjoying it and being a football fan, don't remotely care that my country, England, is not participating.
The whole thing has been excellent so far with the unsurprising exception of BBC Tv's utterly dull, oversized and lame 'analysis ' team.
I wonder how much of our money was wasted on that exercise ?
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I'm a Brit living in Europe, and also travel around it quite a bit, and I speak with people who arent just polite because I happen to be a journalist. So in answer to you question,is Europe pining for England?, then from my experience the answer is a resounding 'no'. Are the people of Europe generally amused by the English absence? Then that would be a 'yes'.
It saddens me that a BBC journalist, covering a major football tournament, needs to write about teams/countries that actually failed to make it there. Not enough stories about teams that did? It also saddens that me that while watching the BBC coverage, not a match goes by without some sort of comment about England not being there, or 'how would England cope with such a situation?' comments. I fully understand that England makes up the majority of your viewers, but a significant percentage are also from Scotland, Northern Ireland (both who came close to qualifying also) and Wales. Try acting like the BBC...that's British Broadcasting Corporation, in case you forgot.
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In response to Post 78.
Im sorry, I meant in relation to Football.
The English holiday zones are a no go area for me. For the reasons you just highlighted.
Ive not seen any trouble or anything but a nice party atmosphere when I have been abroad for England games. Maybe I am just lucky?
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yes it is definitely club before country with England, most of them cannot be bothered to even touch the ball sometimes.
plus they play boring football, we have some of the best players in the world, and can only string a couple of passes together if that.
But things can only get better i suppose, looking forward to world cup now
They should only grow stronger with seeing the euro's and knowing they never took part
so i can only hope that England play good football under Capello.
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"one of the best in the world last 30 years........always get to quarters or semis......."
A better example of self-delusion would be hard to find.
Of the top of my head....
30 years - 1978 - Argentina. England weren't there
1980 ?
1988 3 straight defeats in the first round
1992 Last in the whole competiton
1994 Didn't qualify
1996 Hosts, put Spain out on penalties
2008 Didn't qualify
Depends how wide you extend the net of "the best" I suppose.
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Blogs like this make me feel sick. I'm a very proud England supporter, but I hate it when English people toot their own horn. I don't want pity from anyone, England played poorly and did not deserve to got to Austro/Switzerland.
If Europeans miss us, then so be it. Don't write an article about it. British people have never been ones to talk about themselves positivly, thats why we dont have a national holiday.
I'm not American and never will be. So stop it with these egotistical and overly patriotic articles, BBC.
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The tournament is definately devalued without England being there. Also 2 places were wasted with the Swiss and the Austrians who were awful. That said I still think England would have fallen at the group stage.
Hopefully the Dutch will win as they really are a class act unlike ze Deutsch who are a bit like watching 11 action men. I also hope arrogant Italy go out too with their sleep enducing tactics
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Agreed on both points ! General behaviour of fans and the "Priorities" set by the players themselves are quite discusting ! This would definately be 2 good reasons for not qualifying indeed... That they actually can play bloody good football when they want to, is not on debate here. Still miss the English atmosphere though, noone can beat us on that part... Its not all bad. Even though the bad is bad enough, unfortunately.
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England has no divine right to be at any football competition. The best thing that could have happened did happen. England did not qualify and Mcclaren was fired. If they had qualified then we would still have been lumbered with the worst England manager ever. We would have been forced to watch England play their awful football like they did in World Cup 2006. Capello has work to do but at least he is introducing new players and building for the future. On the evidence of Euro 2008 so far I believe that a Mcclaren England would have been beaten by Russia, Netherlands, Germany, Croatia, Italy and Spain and struggled against Romania. I don't miss England at Euro 2008 because I know that they now have a better chance of winning the World Cup in 2010. COYS.
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this post is dire!!!!!!!!
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Building for the future Spursron(92)? Like recalling Beckham and naming him captain and omitting our most exciting prospect Richards? I think you'd better start looking forward to Euro 2012 instead.
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#89
We've written almost 100 articles for the Euro 2008 blog since the tournament started. Virtually all of them have focused on the 16 nations competing, not to mention their fans. I don't think we've gone overboard at all on the patriotism.
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LOL i agree there, teams like Italy, what a waste of space. How the hell they won the Cup 2 years ago is unexplainable. God awefull football and still win. England for example play better footy on a bad day. Go fugure ! The sooner they are out, the better. I think all nations are sick of their complaining, tricks, divesin the 6 yerd area. That isnt footy at all... But still one of those nations that would be missed in a tournament.
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The only shame is that, you actually believe England fans are thought well of in Europe, maybe they are saying that because they know you aren't there and cant come.
Bit like a long distance auntie, you are glad lives far away and doesn't come to the biggest party you have ever had, because everytime she does come, she embarresses herself and annoys everyone else trying to have a good time.
Don't kid yourself, I bet South Africa are hoping that the bad auntie can't make it either.
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To Benstackwolves. Beckham was for the 100 caps. He won't be around for the real games. Wasn't Richards injured ? Capello has brought in players from the U 21's. I hate to say it but Walcott looks good in an England shirt and so does Defoe.
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Never mind England. It is a real shame that Scotland isn't present at Euro 2008 with their positive and enthusiastic play. The Scots gave the French and Italians a run for their money and nearly qualified, if it hadn't been for a sloppy performance in Georgia.
I give Scotland a better chance to qualify for the World Cup 2010 than England and I am already looking forward to two juicy Scotland-Holland fixtures.
Having said that, it is a shame the Euro championships was awarded to such weak host nations. We could have had two better teams here, which would have meant more exciting group matches in poules 1 and 2. It is not obvious though that England would have been among them.
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Nobody cares that England aren't there - only you English. You seem to think that people are concerned about your absence but they aren't they haven't even noticed it.
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This is a really fantastic microism of how terrible the coverage for this tournament has been. There is a tournament going on out there without England, but you wouldn’t know it. At the start of the tournament Gary Lineker previewed Euro 2008 and mentioned England something like a dozen times. They have as much relevance as Scotland, Wales, or the Irelands do in this tournament, yet not one mention was made of any other team who didn’t qualify. In every match, the dire commentary teams do their best to strain links to England and the EPL out of every opportunity, and the studio analysts spend more time lamenting the supposed greatness of the EPL than they do providing insight into the teams playing that day.
The BBC website has only been marginally better, but just simply because trite such as this can be ignored at will, while the TV can’t. It’s only that this article looked to sum up perfectly how poorly this tournament has been covered which made me even want to read it.
It’s no point saying England accounts for 85% of the BBC’s potential audience to justify the exceptionally poor and biased coverage of the games. ITV can get away with that excuse for their abysmal coverage but the BBC doesn’t exist to appeal to the lowest common denominator. It is a great shame that you come to expect this dreadful coverage from a broadcasting institution whose goal should be to showcase this great tournament, but currently serve only to sour it.
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Just a point to note, I am here and looking at general comments from other nations, we are missed "to a certain extent" but nevertheless, what has south africa got to do with it ? They cant play footy ... pun
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This is wishful thinking, everyone I know is very happy that England didn't qualify - who wants to have to put up with xenophobic, racist behaviour and listen to boorish comments from arrogant pundits about 1966 ad nauseum?
I was in Marseille in 1990 with fans from many different countries bemoaning that the bars were closed early on account of previous English loutish behavior - there was no doubt as to the consensus of opinion as to where blame lay - "ruining it for everyone" is the phrase that sticks in my mind.......
It's not even as if the team is any good, it suffers from the same arrogance as the pundits (many of the pundits being ex-players, perhaps its not surprising) but it achieves nothing beyond alienating the rest of the football-loving planet - there is a reason that England didn't qualify......
At least all we are subjected to now is the nonsense spouted by pundits as to the increasingly tenuous/desperate connections they manage to scrape up between England and the tournament proper.
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you might be right about Richards Spursron, I was under the impression he was just left out. We don't need sentimentality though, we need a coach who will shout and scream at players who don't try. As for Defoe, in those last two friendlies he couldn't have hit a stand of the stadium let alone the goal on most attempts which is odd because I really rate him for Pompey. I just dont think our players are as good as they're made out to be. Players always look better when they play with better players and the PL is full of fantastic players who I think just make the English ones look better than they actually are.
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#101
The BBC is covering every game live despite the fact there is no home interest. I think that fact should be applauded not denigrated.
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What an intuitive person you must be to discern that "look of sympathy crossed with sorrow plus a dash of disbelief" which crosses the faces of all these Europeans with their instant understanding command of the English language.
That look of,
"these lovely English people with their dashing, debonnaire, devil-may-care football team. Oh how I sympathise with them. I'm so sorry for these lovely people with their beautiful music and such inspiring songs. Oh, I'm so sorry they're not here. How I miss them. I really can't believe they're not entertaining us all as usual. I feel my presence here so devalued"
Hmmm.
Anyway, I wonder if you all, (since you're writing with an assumed English stance, regardless of your employment by a British company), rather you were a Turk now.
Then you'd be in the semis.
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it looks like i could not pass the bbc censorship with my first comment.
no mate, you are not missed...
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BenStackWolves... You didn't know that Defoe was aiming for the crowd ? Once he gets more games for Pompey under his belt then he will produce for England. Certainly more than Crouchey. Don't get me started.
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#105 - surely you mean no Engerland?
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i'm not going to say what you write is rubbish because i'm sure you have had this comment made to you but come on do you really think other fans etc really care that england didnt make it.
I'm scottish(with a chip on shoulder)my mother is english and i have a lot of english friends and work mates so when talking about this comp even i would say to them that it's strange england not being there just because its small talk not because i miss them.
What really winds me up is the comments made by that **se tyldesley when germany and portugal come out to play the camera on ballack "englands nemisis" then on ricardo "englands nemisis". What a joke. I wonder when both these countries cover an england game the say the same???
In reply to digital we dont have this so called chip on shoulder its just having to listen to London based media that forget they broadcast outside england. But i would say if we had our on coverage there would be every chance that our pundits etc would probably do the same.
Finally Its actually a disgrace that england didn't make it. Its one of worst squads in many a year which I beleive is due to the ridculous sums they get paid. Rooney is so over rated!!!
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Phil G
The BBC should have made a point before the tornement not to mention British teams at all.
I for one, have heard enough about England over the past two years to last a life time.
Frankly its getting really boring.
Euro 2008 is a nice break from the ridiculas media circus that is the English national football team - for both Europe and the United Kingdom.
The only thing the Europeans miss, is 40,000 beer guzzeling Englishmen converging on the thousands of bars restruants across the continent. We carry the European tourist industry, thats why they miss us.
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I think there is merit in this article. Maybe the Euros arent pinning for England, but its not the same without them. The same can be said if the Germans, French, Italians, Spanish or Dutch didnt qualify for the tournamnet.
These are all great footballing nations that other nations want to beat and fans want to watch their nation play against!
As a nutural I cheered for Romania against France like I cheered for Croatia against Germany. Everyone loves to see underdogs play against the big nations. (England Included).
The footballing globe has, and will always, evolve. The global trade of players and development of the domestic game across europe has seen new nations rise into the footballing elite.
Across the globe, people tune in to watch the English Premier league. So theoretically, the global interest in the English league would generate a global interest in the National team... This can also be evidenced in the ellaborate fan fare that domestic English teams recieve when they go on pre season tours.
Euro 2008 has been one of the most enjoyable championships i have ever seen. Great football, great drama and not the tension of worrying about how England will perform! - That said i would be very upset should England miss qualification for WC2010.
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I agree with that 105, I half expected them not to show them all and I've been very impressed that they have.
Equally though, why have they gone out of their way to choose boring analysts whose analysis is rubbish and who cost an absolute fortune. I'd much rather see decent analysts who maybe weren't such succesful players but had insightful comments and weren't so outrageously uncharismatic, seriously, they look like robots. The stuff they come out with (though less so O'neill) is utter garbage. Last night, reviewing the penalties, hansen twice said 'you've just got to get them on target', could anybody in the world have come up with a more obvious and pointless statement?
Also, I would love to see Turkey beat Germany just to wipe that stupid, arrogant grin off his face.
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As a Scotland fan i wish England had made it to the finals. By this point of the competition they would be out, beat on penalty's...again, some tears and home. Then we wouldn't have to listen to the pathetic bleeting of why they never made it. Get over it!!!
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I think the people that are happy England aren't there need to realise that without us inventing football, none of your supposed nations would be playing it.
On a further note I don't think we deserve to have been in this tournament. We have been poor for the past few years, and things need to change for us to progress. The fact is that individually we have some of the best players in the world, yet as a team we fail to play as a unit. I hope this changes in the near future, and we will soon see.
Without us the tournament hasn't felt the same, and despite people going on about the hooligans, we also have good supporters. We are loud and vocal, getting behind our team. I have noticed a lot of supporters in Euro 2008 haven't been very vocal. Maybe they need to learn how to sing?! We also bring our English sense of humour, which some people may dislike, but it does add something. We are not a country of hooligans, and people that perceive us as being just that really need to grow up.
Although it has been a shame we aren't there, Euro 2008 has been reasonably good so far. There has been some exciting football played. Plus watching the Portuguese getting knocked out was a joy to behold. I'm still bitter about the World Cup. Lol. They had done well though to be fair and played some good football. Spain, Germany and Holland have also impressed me greatly throughout the tournament. I am looking forward to the rest of the knock-out stages. They should be good. Good luck to all of the nations still in it. I hope that the football continues to be as good as it has been thus far, and that the winner is a deserved one.
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@ the Scottish contributors to this forum complaining about the nauseating commentary to football games, I'd hit the "red" button if I was you and listen to the commentary in Gaelic then. I just hit the mute button, personally.
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yes its a shame England are not there because...
we will miss their mediocre play,
we will miss the media hype,
we will miss them mentioning 1966 which was LAST CENTURY,
we will miss them going out on penalties ,
and we will miss them blaming the ref, an opposition player, or..
God due to the fact that they have a god given right to win every tournament ..
you HAVE been missed.... NOT!
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Surely the continentals are not missing a bunch of hooligans.
Relax Paul, it will all be over in a weeks time and you can stop fantasising about your "conversations" - no doubt a figment of your imagination :-)
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Well, it seems I am an Englishman and I have to apologise for being English. As I am one person in 60 million, that qualifies me to represent every single person in England who supports the England football team. Well apparently. Everybody generalises in every country! I am a law abiding loyal pacifist who just wants the country that he supports to do well - and I have to apologise for that crime. Well tough, I'm not. When you support any other club out of the top four or five from the Premier League, hope and disappointment come as par for the course, so there are supporters out there such as myself who can handle the disappointment of England under achieving, because they are used to their own clubs performing this way. My point is, I have and always will enjoy England's participation in big tournaments, come rain or shine. I don't listen to the hype or the media. I am not a hooligan. The best teams do not always win (look at last night and look at the Germany v Portugal game). I don't want England to have a "special" tag but by the same rule, the England football team (not the fans) are not villains of the peace, and whether people support them or not, they have gone out of competitions on penalties or bad decisions for the most part (not all, we all remember Euro 88 and 92 when England were poor). When people criticise England for being average, they think that this is the only team in the world that has underperformed. Well in reality we are not the only ones, and this tournament is proof of that. Good, bad or indifferent, I'll support England whatever, and most of the fans are great though some are terrible (there has been trouble at this tournament too, and not for the first time in the absence of England). I'm not whining about being English, I'm getting on with it, but I'm not saying sorry either.
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Lets stop moaning and griping, were not there simply because were not good enough, from what I have seen from the competition so far we would be getting hammered.
We need to get back to a national squad that actually WANTS to play for their country as opposed to a bunch of over paid, over rated, film stars who are only interested in the ethos of greed.
Even big Phil said it all when he said about the players seem to perform in training ok, but when it gets to the REAL match, their not the same, of course not, the last thing they want is to get injured in the line of duty for their country, when the big money is made playing for your club.
No one cares about England not being there, we have to prove ourselves all over again and gain respect by earning it, we don't have the right to be in the Euros.
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All we are getting is comments from scots who are just jealous that there team has always and will always be second to england. Gabby agbonglahor for instance could have played for england or scotland who did he choose england because they are usually in the major tournaments (unlike scotland) scotland are like englands B team who players who are not good enough for england play for.
Also you say are fans are drunken hooligans (cough cough) rangers in manchester.
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Socarulz says blogs like this make him feel sick, then he purports to be a very proud England supporter who hates it when English people toot their own horn, how proud is that?
The fact is, pride is about not being afraid to "toot ones horn" and support your own team even when they may not be winning, we all know if the English don't "toot their own horn", nobody else will. Perhaps Mr Socarulz should start showing, rather than just saying he has pride in being English. I concede he is right in saying British people have never been ones to talk about themselves positivly (sic) and thats why we dont have a national holiday.
Perhaps it's about time they did, because when the English get on their own backs and put themselves down like Mr Socarulz, then what chance will they ever have?
Whatever happened to the pride of the British Bulldog? I guess it died because of an inability to dare exhibit pride as shown the carping comments of Mr Socarulz. Thanks for nothing pal, it's not blogs like this that make me feel sick, but the unpatriotic remarks you make when tooting your own horn to put down the English.
Regards
Fridolad
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Scotland and the tartan army always made major contributions any major championships we went to even though it wasn't on the pitch. I feel this is being forgotten in out 10 year absence from major finals.
I cannot remember one tournament when english hooligans have not caused problems so why would anyone want them there.
Although it's a minority of people they ruin the image of your football much like rangers do up here.
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Wow, blogs like these sure do bring out the nonsense crew, the semi bigoted England haters, the club before country jokers oh yeah and them chaps that say well my mum was English and my dad was Scottish so I love both countries blah blah dribble. Well England did not make it, I'm looking forward to WC qualifiers and if we do make the WC finals to all those on this blog don't buy a little flag for your car, there save a couple of quid.
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To the Scottish supporters that are mocking England, I just don't understand where you are coming from?! I mean, you have one of the worst national football teams in the world. You have never won anything, and you fail to make almost every tournament. Please spare us with your ignorant comments.
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Its been grea, no England to sear about and some really good football. Maybe at last we will realise that we simply arnt good enough technically. All we have had over past X years is the long ball, or the Free kick. We need to start getting better at playing the ball around with defenders being comfortable receiving the ball under pressure. And dont go blaming the foreign players in prem league for that, we have been that way for the last 20 years or so.
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LOL i agree there, teams like Italy, what a waste of space. How the hell they won the Cup 2 years ago is unexplainable. God awefull football and still win. England for example play better footy on a bad day. Go fugure ! The sooner they are out, the better. I think all nations are sick of their complaining, tricks, divesin the 6 yerd area. That isnt footy at all... But still one of those nations that would be missed in a tournament.
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awful football. they only conceded twice, (one own goal), did you see the fanatstic game agains germany. the way they played against a very good ghana and the czechs. not tom netion ukraine.
tell me when have england played well. all they seem to do is have bad days. did you see the number of chances created against france and romania, plus a few good ones against holland. it is fans like you that make the rest of europe glad that you are not there.
sour grapes, or is it the grief talking.
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i think you will find that football was invented in China along with pasta.
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Bloody hell. I haven't read any of the above comment, so apologies if i repeat any points made.
Can't some people just get over the fact that we were complacent, and werent good enough in the group stages.
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I'm English and would have obviously preferred England to be participating but I really don't think the tournament would be any better with England in it. They would be in the quarters at best before packing their bags and heading home; just look at Portugal: a far superior side man-for-man to England and they are already homeward bound.
I can understand why people are saying (and I believe they mean it) that they wish England were in the competition because they are historically a big side and as such you kind of expect these sides to be at the major tournaments. However, they didn't make it, didn't deserve to make it and yet we have witnessed, in my opinion, the best Euro's by a long shot.
Lets hope the drama and the excellent football continue!
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villaninvalencia - England are a nation of over 50 million, Scotland are a nation of just over 5 million - England should be 10 times better than Scotland and should have won as many major championships as Italy or Germany!
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Arrogant, self indulgant nonsense. It is up there with the BBC declaring that Arshavin is now "Premier League class."
It makes me feel ill that the licence fee goes to people who write articles like this.
Anyway, what do you really expect these people you meet to say? Did you expect them to laugh in your face that England arent there? Did you expect them to say "Im so glad England didnt qualify. Its far better without you"
They are just being polite to you mate!!!!!!
Lets say at the 2002 World Cup you had met a Dutch journalist. What is the first thing you would have said to him?
You would have said "Its a shame the Dutch didnt qualify."
Its called being polite and making conversation.
Its incredible to think that a journalist (and I use that term loosely) has taken that politeness and written an article like this. Its even worse that you are out there living it up on public money, and being paid public money to write such self centered, arrogant nonsense.
You are a living advert of why the licence fee should be abolished.
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We can't watch BBC coverage of any game without Motson mentioning England, usually inside 10 minutes, and now we can't read about it on the BBC website without this childish, whining, nonsense about the locals supposedly being disappointed that England aren't there.
Utter rubbish. Grow up.
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regarding the hooligan element every country has it to a degree just look at manchester and the rangers fans. its unfortunate we have a society of idiots who attach them selves to a team when big game or tourney comes round and the real fans get the stick. plus other countries hooligans just batter each other and dont pick on by standers like the british bully does.
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#122
That's the whole point. Some people do care that England are not at Euro 2008. Yep, even the Germans.
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What are you on about?
You told a few random people that you were from England, and they replied with ''its a shame England are not there''
Have you ever heard of being nice?
Do you want me to link you to a Republic of Ireland 2002 video where many Spanish say ''I feel sad Ireland didn't qualify for the european cup''?
This is after the amazing attacking match against them in the World Cup.
Does this mean Ireland are missed from euro 2008? Hell no.
They didn't qualify. Neither did England.
Thats it. I doubt in Italy, young Guiseppi is distraught that the English national team didn't qualify.
Absolute nonsense, and why Europe hates the English team.
As Eamonn Dunphy one said ''they think God is English''
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I'm an english guy who has lived in Frankfurt for 10 years. I think the tone of the article is correct - i.e. that there is a genuine perception among foreign fans of "shame that England are not here".
In Frankfurt, they still talk about when the english fans were here in the World Cup, and what a great atmosphere it was, and how funny/unbelievable the english fans are. The stories of english fans jumping into the river Main are still told.
I don't agree with the earlier comment suggesting attitudes had changed post us holidng the 1996 event - you will recall unsightly scenes at the 2000 event for example.
Of course, none of these foreign fans think England would win the event - they think we are a team of natural losers, despite having good players. I think I woudl subscribe to that theory as well. Look at the German team - they are individually not more talented than the English team, yet play as a unit (in tournaments) so much better.
I'm actually pleased we didnt make it this time, although I would have loved to have seen England in the tournament. I found our performance at the World Cup to be terrible, and the whole WAGS etc. issus just embarrassing. I'd like to think we will now have a trainer who will whip a team into shape, revised expectations, and a new professional attitude to international football that has been sadly lacking in our overhyped, arrogant players. Germany went through a football crisis after the 2000 European Championships, coming out of it in the 2006 World Cup (most Germans agree the 2002 World Cup was not refelctive) ... hopefully our crisis will similarly create change for the better.
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fridolad
If your a great country then you shouldn't have to tell people you are or tell yourself you are.
Great countries dont brag about their own achievments.
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Who on earth would miss our overrated, overpaid and arrogant "stars" with their dour football. They're paid millions and some of them can't even trap a ball properly, let alone keep the thing and pass it accurately. Couple that with our equally arrogant and oafish fans and you'd be hard pressed to see why anyone would welcome us. It's been a great championship so far without us. No-one misses us. Honestly.
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I think it is a bit cheeky of UEFA to make England have to qualify in the first place. Surely having recognised from previous tournaments just how much the event suffers from not having th English there then they should have been able to learn from that and give the English automatic qualification every time. The Euros and the world cup tournaments need the English, it doesn't matter if they are not good enough and it certainly doesn't matter if a better team ie Croatia made it there instead. All other teams and their ability to play football and have a fantastic tournament do not matter one bit because at the end of the day it is not the English there and the tournament will never be a true success without the England national team.
I think journalists like Paul Fletcher deserve a very large raise for his journalistic prowess, he is right on the money with his article. I wish we could have articles about teams that did not even make it all the time, can we not have one on Scotland also, maybe Wales, NI or ROI? Wait a minute they are not England either though, oh stuff it Paul lets have another one of your insightful articles on England instead, that would be awesome. Thanks very much.
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Cool an optimistic Italian, few and far between these days. :-)... There have been a few very good games involved this time round, and Italy was not in one of them. Sorry to say but the standard is pretty much like Englands at the moment. Holland is the only team that I can see winning this time round. Good on them, we are receiving funny comments what they got a few years ago.... But we will get over it, life goes on doenst it now ;)
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#105
There are no home nations, but there certainly is home interest in watching the European Championships. Covering the games is both a commercial success, given the viewing figures that Euro 2008 has received, and part of a responsibility to bring the “crown jewel” sporting events to viewers on terrestrial television. Simply covering every game is not enough given what the BBC can and should be doing. While the production involved in showing the football has again been exceptional, the actual coverage of the tournament has been so poor that I’d consider it to have been detrimental to the overall quality of the BBC’s output. Only when the coverage that the BBC gives to international sport serves, if not to enhance but to at least not take away from it, then will it deserve any applause.
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There seems to be a big misunderstanding. The English and the European football fans both miss an English national team which is as STRONG as it should be, an example of how football should be played. No one misses those guys who somehow played the Euro qualifiers for England though. Not only did they fail to qualify for the Euro, the failed to qualify to be called "England".
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Toronto celt, hmmm bit of a idiotic statement dont you think ! Nobody has the right to automatic qualification ... Fact is its just not the same atmosphere. Sry man but your a little off the line on that one...
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I went to Euro 2000 with a mate. We had tickets for two matches, neither of which were England games and we weren't bothered about that, we just wanted to soak up the atmosphere and watch some footy.
Almost without fail, every local who met us, once they realised we were English, would say something like "oh, you must be here for the fighting!". Of course we weren't and weren't even near where the england matches were played.
Later in that tournament, our fellow countrymen went on to prove those locals absolutely right and we watched the scenes of rioting in belgium by England fans on the tv in our hotel.
Why the hell would any tournament miss us?
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England National teams have never played football the way it should be played.
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@147
Its called sarcasm, mate. Probably the same Mr Fletcher was experiencing.
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I honestly believe that the England team does suffer from a lack of unity fostered by the enormous power of the Premier Leagues 'club before country' ethos coupled with the huge weight of expectation that comes with pulling on the shirt.
Euro 2008 has been a fantastic tournament given the contribution of Holland's total football, the flair of Spain, technical skill of Croatia and Portugual and dare I say it the shear will to win of the Germans.
That said England has some world class players too. As Capello rightly pointed out when interviewed by Lineker, he was surprised by the lack of confidence in our players when it comes to England given that week in week out they take to the field to play in the greatest domestic football league on earth in the Premiership. With three English teams in the Champions League Semi Finals this year who would argue.
England should only be competing in these tournaments on merit and rightly so. I firmly believe though with England its mentality not ability that we lack. If Capello can rediscover the spirit of togetherness and believe that was embodied in the Euro 96 England team - he'll find a winning formula.
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Just when I thought a miracle had occurred and the English nation had finally grown up and understood that the world does not revolve around its comings and goings, your blog blotted an otherwise admirable show of restraint by the press and the public at Euro 2008 - to be blunt I feel you projected your own feelings onto the people you spoke to. Empathising with a country that didn't make it, especially one of the traditional powers and big names, is not the same as having affection for it or its people.
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I was originally upset that we were not there and really thought I would have no interest. It just shows to me the lack of passion that our players have compared to the others. Every side look like they are genuinely playing for their "mates".
You can sometimes make up for lack of skill with pure passion and will to win. For all the misdfiel skill on display the goals are still situated on the pitch where they have always been. Take the Croatia-Turkey game (forget the fantastic finish)-one goalkeeping boo boo and a long ball upfield to a player who didn't give up.
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On the main topic. I think it is mainly a matter of being polite in individual conversations. I talk to alot of people from other european countries and I don't think they care to be honest that any of the home nations aren't there. Though a few did make reference that they have missed the tartan army and/or enjoyed meeting alot of them in the qualifying games over the years.
What I will say is I have nothing against England when it comes to being in tournaments and such like as they are there. However when they aren't which i know has been rare in recent times. There just like the rest of us arent can't we please shut up about them?
The EBC and ITV haven't shut up about England so far. I must admit maybe one odd reference can be forgiven yet constantly going on about them. Showing an interview with capello at half time of a game is a complete shambles. To avoid this in the future all I ask is either allow our own commentators and pundits to comment on games. So e.g. sportscene in scotland etc. Or mix the personel of the broadcasts up. Get some scottish, welsh and n irish commentators in there with some different pundits rather than the same boring predictable names. Its not alot to ask to even act neutral is it or just not mention or involve any home nation team in the programming?
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"its a shame England arent there.."
ha ha brilliant, best laugh Ive had in years,
(wipes away the tears)
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I'm really glad England aren't there. Of course, it would be nice from a footballing point of view but in a way, it's a blessing in disguise.
We can now sit down and watch in awe of teams like Holland blowing away the opposition and let's face it, if England were there, would we be spending our Friday nights watching Croatia and Turkey instead? The standard there this year has been magnificent and I doubt very much England could have competed at the same level.
At the same time, not qualifying might actually give a lot of England players the kick up the backside they've deserved, people like Lampard, Gerrard and Owen who have long thought they only have to turn up and they'll be selected. Well not any more. We've now got a world class coach and maybe we'll finally have an England team ready for 2010 not assembled from a bunch of lazy overpaid prima-dona's, but a crop of young determined players, ready to play with passion and for pride, and not the cheque at the end of the 90 minutes.
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flying avfc take the blinkers off. its comments like yours that make the rest of the europe glad that that arrogance is not at the competition. i mean to call the scottish ignorant.
also to clear up the matter of the creation of football.
it was association football the was first played in england which was the passed round the world through shipping etc..
look at juventus-notts county
barca badge has england flag.....
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I find that England are mainly missed because of the glamor of their squad and the language of the fans, we tend to be the neutral ground when it comes to getting to know fans of other country's and whilst im not saying we are great people, English is so well known that breaking barriers and getting the most out of a experience of attending a tournament in another country is just more simple.
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With England not being there I think it gives us non English a chance to actually enjoy the finals without having to hear Motson go on about Rooney and co.
It also gives England the opportunity to see how far behind the top footballing nations they really are.
After Croatia's opening game, the English media were going on about how poor the Croat's actually were. After there performance against Germany, Croatia proved that they are by far and away a better side than England.
Russia we were told would not even make it out of the group stages. Now they are one win away from a place in the semi finals.
Instead of going on about how England are missed you should just enjoy the football. After all it may be along time before we see your nation at another major finals.
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Sorry to say but the standard is pretty much like Englands at the moment.
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i think you will find there is a big difference in standard between england and italy. i am not boasting but not qualifying was supposed to be a wake up call, instead you just try to bring others down with you. the problem in england is the average beleives everything he reads (i.e. england are favourites, england should be there, we have the best players, 1966, golden generation). sadly due to the growth of the EPL, it is a long time before they will learn.
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bah. sympathy to your face, joy behind your back maybe Paul.
simple fact is, the Swiss and the Austrian authorities are definitely happy they didn't have to deal with England thugs/fans/morons.
there is no romance in the english team. passionless, and that is why they did not deserve their place in the championship.
now lets see you write an article about Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland, since they pay the license fee too, and even more important - they played with some passion, even if only to fall at the last hurdle.
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Barca have the 'english flag' on their badge because St. George is the patron saint of Catalonia.
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what a lot of tosh nephiko!!
thats right the turks and brazilians didn't know each other well but the english brought them together through the english lanuage.
every other country in europe speaks english to a degree anyway
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I actually quite liked Croatia and was wanting them to do well. This however changed as the tournament went on because all we started to here was how Croatia and Russia were the only 2 teams to qualify for the quarters that were in the same Euro qualifying group. Which group was that? Englands group of course, which now meant that Englands qualifying group was the group of death, not Scotlands who had world cup winners, runners up and quarter finalists. The further Croatia and Russia went in the euros just lead to the bbc and itv going on about England and how that could have been them. They presume that just because Croatia and Russia got through to the quarters that England would have done the same. All we would have heard if Croatia or Russia had won the euros is that is should have been england. That would been the first thing said rather than talking about Croatia or Russia winning the actual tournament. Would they be raving about how it could have been Scotland should Italy win it. I think not and neither would the Scots because we know it wouldnt have been us. End of. The English media just cant let it go.
So im glad Croatia are out and I hope Holland stuff Russia aswell.
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@ Czechmate
i notice out of your over hyped players you've missed one.. GERRARD
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As a number of posters have already pointed out above, it was more likely that the people you spoke to were being polite rather than genuinely missing England.
Put simply we were/are simply not good enough to have qualified for this tournament (take you pick as to who is to blame for this - overhyped players, inexperienced manager, inept FA or lazy journalists).
What I find particularly galling is that one of the best football tournaments for some years is being somewhat spoiled by lazy/obsessed commentators. How many times did the commentators last night mention England when they were supposed to be talking about Croatia and Turkey? And Mr Lawrenson kept saying that "Turkey are not playing to win". Perhaps he should have told them that?
Surely as licence fee payers we can ask for and expect a bit more impartiality from the commentators and expect them to have done some homework prior to the match as well?
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I think Fletcher should apologise and this blog should be removed. I can't believe this guy is using license payers money to come up with this drivel. If a woman goes to the hairdressers then you tell her it is nice regardless, if you meet an English journalist in a pub then you say I wish England were here rather than offend the fool - they were probably scared incase he lived up to his English reputation at a major tournament and headbutted them!
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agreed neilly about st george but it was also a factor that it was english influence when the club was created with founder gamper having played in england. also if you look at other teams in spain or across the world you notice a very british style in their team names.
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get lost czechmate. steven gerrard??
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was glad england werent in it because they are boring and rely on overated players like rooney.but now i wish they were in it because the bbc,itv and the newspapers keep mentioning england.england this england that they need to get over it,they didnt make it because they werent good enough.accept it.
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...and for those who continue to knock our coverage on this blog as not covering the Scottish team, their fans, and their absence from the tournament - aside from regailing you with the support Scotland received in this office against the Italians - I'd point you to Fletch's own post here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/euro2008/2008/06/scotland_on_tour_sort_of.html
On a personal note, I've travelled a lot of Europe and had probably a 50/50 reaction to any talk with continental brothers about the England team.
The extremes being a Swede who was confused and delighted that I was English but not drunk and wrecking our train caboose and two Italians who went on, at length, in fervent reverence about Tony Adams' defensive management.
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does anyone actually think Fletcher is right and the Swiss wish England were there?
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probbly the only reason that people are disappointed is the fact that they have lost money. Without the large numbers of fans who travel across the globe to watch English Sporting teams, local economies and those making money from Media rights have lost out big time!
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Of course England is missed, all these tournaments seem empty if England is not involved. Football fans around the world also want to see Rooney (the master and future world best player), Hargreaves, Gerard, Rio, Jo Cole and all the other players competing with the others. They would have been at the tournament if Mclaren had picked the right team on the night. We all know that the Premier league is the best and in addition when you look at the Champions league final there were more than half of the players from England so no one can say England does not have GOOD players, it is just a problem of the manager who fails to motivate them before matches. Despite all the mistakes during the qualification, I think it is Mclaren failure to include Hargreaves during the Croatia match the reason why England lost the match. This is the team which can win the world cup: Hart (Foster, James) Brown-Ferdinand-Woodgate (Terry)-A. Cole Bentley-Hargreaves-Gerard-J.Cole Rooney in partnership with: (Defoe, Harewood, Owen, Crouch). If Capello picks this team (those within brackets as substitutes), then I am confident it will be a success. Finally, all England fans should be aware that England has many many fans abroad, and we, the true football fans hate the fact that England is not there. Since I expected that my country (Albania) will not qualify (give us another couple of years), I was looking forward to support England during the Euros, but then the man under the umbrella failed to pick the right team. I also think that England players should stick it in their minds that they MUST NEVER LOSE at Wembley, that should be a fortress that no one can break.
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As a Scot I think it's only the vocal few up here who actively hope England don't progress.
The upshot has been some really balanced coverage for the neutral. We're just football fans, and admitably it can get tiresome when 45 mins of a Euro programme is focused on one team and 15 mins on the others. (Just imagine watching this for any of the other nations which wasn't your own).
Having said that the English always bring something to a tournament. That hype, that passion, the media, the fans, the expectation, the heartache.
It's different tournament without you guys and I hope you make the next one. I'll even do my best to put up with the media coverage, balanced or otherwise...
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I too was happy that we missed out on Euro 2008.
Partly because it was obviously the only way the FA would realise that McLaren was not up to the task, although I did sympathise with him a little.
But mainly because we were spared the utterly embarrassing sight of the England Wag's!!
Those scenes from Germany2006 made me feel almost as ashamed as any town centre brawl from years gone by.
The common feeling from the rest of the fans in the tournament was "Who do these people think they are!?" "Their Husbands are playing Football no better than the weakest teams who only just managed to qualify for the tournament, yet they strut around like movie stars"
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They obviously all feel sorry for you and just to make you happy they say it's a disappointment not to have England there. No-one really cares....trust me
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Who cares if we were colonists ! Whats that got to do with the Euro2008 ? Get real people.. Oh and the Headbutt comment, hmmm its a scottish thing actually but nevermind you werent to know :p
Back to the actual theme, England didnt deserve to win, thats clear, and the so-called fans are a discrace not just to England, but to football in general. The Germans, Italians and Spanish have thugs too, but they dont get mentioned so often do they now. I look forward to see what the new manager does the the England team for 2010..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVNe4pFGtIM&feature=related
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It would have been so embarrassing if England had qualified, not least because McClown would have kept his job. The premiership is fantastic because the best players in the world play in it, but England doesn#t have the best players. Mediocre at best, a dull naive team with huge egos. Euro 08 is a very good standard but with England there, no thanks.
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I bet Fletch he couldn't generate 200 comments with one of his blogs. Not too far now....
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"It's different tournament without you guys and I hope you make the next one. I'll even do my best to put up with the media coverage, balanced or otherwise..."
Quad eret demonstrantum !
A little arrogant I know, (apologies) but we are like that sometimes. We love footy and we are really annoyed that on the one side we are the best league country in the world, but still cant get the national team sorted. An unexplainable fact but true. I say bring in ie George Best and not a foreigner, we will see what happens.
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The rest of Europe wishes England was there like a hedgehog wishes for heavy traffic...
Now please, give over about England!
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It's the height of arrogance to assume England are missed more than anyone else. I expect people are just being polite - if you were Belgian or Bulgarian they'd be saying "Oh what a shame Belgium or Bulgaria haven't qualified".
I can't imagine England have contributed much to neutrals' excitement at the last few tournaments they've qualified for; this one shows just how far behind we've slipped.
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Look, you can think I'm just stupid - plenty of people I know do - or you can think I've just had the wool pulled over my eyes, that is entirely up to you.
And I'm sure there are undoubtedly instances when you are correct.
But so surprised have I been by the continual stream of positive feeling to England and their fans (I do not classify hooligans as fans) that I really pressed people. "What about hooligans? What about drunks? What about the fact the team is actually not very good at all? You're just humouring me? You're not serious?" etc etc
I honestly think, to my great surprise, that plenty of people do wish England had been here.
Don't for a moment think I'm missing England's presence here or that I am not enjoying this most fantastic tournament. Read all of my previous blogs. Hate them or like them, fine, but you'll struggle to find a reference to the England team.
This tournament for me has not been in any way about England. The only time I have discussed the England team at all has been when I have told someone where I am from and conversation has turned to the national football team.
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George Best was from Northern Ireland, and just as 'foreign' to England as Theirry Henry.
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Richard Irvine Brown BBC SPORT
No one in Scotland is asking for BBC commentators to start talking about Scotland, Scotland fans etc. I would frankly get sick of it if you did.
What we are asking is to stop talking about England. Scotland arent there so we dont want to be talked about at a tournament we are not involved in. The same should apply for England. Its obviously very annoying being a Scot and having to listen to the BBC commetators and panelists harping on about England. However, after reading many comments it appears that the English are sick of it aswell so maybe the media should take the hint.
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fearlessBob:
We get it. You don't agree with the blog post. Take a deep breath mate, and calm down.
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Nonsense.Anybody that loves free flowing attacking football will never miss the complete lack of tactics and technique that routinely plague English players and their tremendously boring national team.They are not here for a very good reason.they are simply not good enough and have not been for a very long time.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
It's been nice having an England-free tournament...
but they had bloody well better qualify for the next one.
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LOL, yes true but British. Or would that be a bad move... I think Bobby Charlon would also be up to it. Maybe... Its not that we would not have a good choice is it now
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Im sure that the majority of europeans who apparently miss england at this tournament wouldn't be half as sympathetic if they were forced to listen to the coverage presented in the uk. Articles like this one, along with constant reference to how slaven bilic used to play for west ham or bosingwa is the new chelsea full-back are aimed squarely at an English audience with no apparent knowledge of football outside their own country. However this coverage is meant for the 4 countries in the uk, and im sure i can speak for all scots, welsh and n. irish when i say that when i watch a match not involving england, i don't want to hear about them. I don't recall much mentioning of the fact that Artur Boruc was the Celtic keeper, despite him probably being one of the top three performers so far. Scotland fans have a reputation for being anti-english but it's not the football team that we're against - its the arrogant and biased media that we're forced to put up with
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I can't believe the arrogance, no wait a minute, I can as we have all heard it all before, of this article. I have travelled accross Europe and have found that no one likes the English. We even see it in the Eurovision Song Contest. Yes we do have some talented players in this country but we don't gel or have the flair of other countries. But most of all, we have the worst behaved supporters in Europe. We just have to look at previuos tournaments and realise that we still have a hooligan element (a pretty large one at that) that wreck havoc when they go abroud. Yes there has been some trouble at this event but nothing large scale. So please don't kid yourself that foreigners are missing England at the tournament.
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Well, great. Any mention of England and a forum becomes a mouthpiece for (a thankful minority of) racist, bitter Scots.
So instead of taking on board the points the article was making, you just see what you want to see and gotally miss the point.
and btw, yes England weren't good enough and don't deserve to be there, and were rubbish at the last world cup and still are - thats not the point. We are rightly or wrongly (yes, I know, Scotland invented football, chairs, speaking, walking on two feet etc. yawn) seen as the originators of the modern game and as we are also lucky enough to be the home of the most popular league in the world, we have a big profile in the sport. So people will notice when we aren't there - even if they don't particularly care. To say that the same is true of the other British countries just shows the delusional nature of some of the contributors here.
The same goes for the "no surrender" brigade. For god's sake, change the flippin record. Sectarianism and narrow nationalism is so last century - most people have moved on - why can't you?
So please can we talk about football without chips on shoulders and political agendas? It really is predictably tedious.
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Did you ask at the same time if your bum looked big in your Crusader outfit?
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If what European footy fans want to see is a bunch of millionaire football players who routinely struggle to pass the ball straight or summon up any kind of passion for their national shirt - then yes, England will be missed badly.
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Just imagine what the world would be saying if Italy or Brazil do not qualify for the 2010 tournament. Bloody hell would brake loose in the media !! It isnt any different with England. One of the biggest teams for something like this and dont make it... Oh dear how sad nevermind... But the point is, alot of people do state, something is missing.. The flair, the excitement from "real" fans in the stadium ect ect. Thats all.. The thugs can be executed from my side...
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@190
I'm not scottish, but from my point of view, England has been just as irrelevant as a nation when it comes to football, as Scotland is.
For a nation of England's size to have only won a single tournament (which they hosted) is quite embaressing. The Dutch (where I currently reside) have a much smaller population to choose from and regularly produce teams with more flair/technical ability than England do.
I'd guess most scottish fans are 'bitter' because of the media coverage that England receive in the UK, while totally undeserving of it...this blog piece being a prime example.
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Any non Englishman who misses England is missing you because they love to see your overpaid flops fail again.
You really do have to get over yourselves.
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The football team were just not good enough and are more passionate about thier over inflated wages and playing for the club rather than the country.
I'll still be supporting 11 englishmen this summer as they take to the field in a sport we are reasonably good at - Cricket.
We are fed too much football all year round and our absence at the top table can only benifit others sports who deservedly can take the spot light.
long may it continue
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To Weebaldy.
You have never been to an international tournament so please sit down and give your mouth a chance to speak.
There are hooligan problems in most countries in Europe. Whilst we as a nation still have an element of troublemakers we have clamped down on the vast majority and as such are seen as a role model in that respect.
Just look at the Italians, when they were having all the crowd problems in their game in the past couple of years they looked to us as an example of how to put things right.
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It's been a very enjoyable tournament for the neutral with some great football and thrilling matches. I'm glad England aren't there because it would be embarrassing watching a bunch of highly paid INDIVIDUALS trying and failing to compete with TEAMS who are so much better technically and tactically. It's also a relief not to have to put with the usual 3 days build-up and 3 days post-mortem for every Enland game. And as for the media obsession with the Wags...!
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I'm sure everyone posting here will love their country and it's football team, sometimes irrationally (though its pretty hard to have blind faith in Scotland). I'm sure failing to qualify is an even more bitter pill to swallow for England fans than the rest of the home nations as they were expecting too, rather than just hoping to. However it gives us all the rare opportunity to just concentrate purely on the football, which so far has been excellent, so less of all the xenophobia between fans and lets just enjoy what we've got: the best football tournament in over ten years.
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Don't worry about England not being in the Euro Championships. Compliments of its TV commentators England has been the third team in every match in the tournament so far. Even the suggestion of such an article as you've written speaks of a profound national psychosis. The English just cannot let it go. They are not in the championships and it is rude of their TV commentators to bring England or things English into their match commentaries every 3 or 4 minutes. No exaggeration. These intrusive remarks average more than 10 per match. In the Germany-Portugal match the commentators made 25 remarks throughout the 90 minute commentary about England, the premier league, and so on. Yes, it was getting so bad that I started counting it to try to understand why they were doing it. We know a lof of players play in the Premier League, but reflected glory speaks of an inferiority complex. Do we need to be reminded every few minutes in every match we watch? By the end of the tournament we should expect upwards of 600 interventions reflecting on England, the English premier league and other things English. It is quite remorseless. A few remarks are fine, but a ceaseless barrage throughout a tournment about people who are not in the tournament is fanatical. If England wins through and competes well, good enough, if they don't compete, don't bleat. It's this constant bad manners intruding into my concentration as I watch the matches that I find irritating. Critically, are these commentators using the heavily foreign-dominated English Premier League at all levels, ownership, managerial, player, to compensate for national mediocrity on the world stage? For the record, England has never even reached a Euro final - 12 other European countries have reached finals or won them. England had one World Cup success over 40 years ago compared with multiple wins and finals from the likes of Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, France and Holland. The Germans. for example, have played in 7 world cup finals, winning three, and five euro championship finals, winning 3. Even at losing semi final level England's record can claim none in the World Cup and a mere 2 in the Euro championships. Admittedly, it's sad but it's time for a reality check, don't you think. Bluntly, on the results of the world's two most important soccer tournaments, England is not a major soccer power and has not been since the early part of the 20th century. The Hungarians - 13 goals in two games - burst the bubble in 1953. Seems no one was paying real attention. If you think I'm harking back, that's precisely what the commentators do every few moments. It's in their DNA.
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@192
I never understood the separation of non-english British players and 'foreigners' when it came to their impact on the English national team. Then again, I never understood the 'influx of foreigners is ruining our game' argument either. If a player is good enough, no matter where they come from, they will get a chance to perform. Positive discrimination only breeds mediocrity.
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I live in Kazakhstan as expat Englishmen , saw England in Moscow Stevie Gerrard and Sean Wright Phillips missed sitters but then again Russia had good goal dissallowed at Wembley ! Anyway I miss England being there and so do a lot of Kazakhs and Russians in KZ they are mad on the premiership matches and English players and we do have a few , Gerrard not world class from Liverpool supporter ??? BTW in Moscow the 3000 English fans were well behaved but the some drunken Russians supportersattacked hotels and English supporters ! I am supporting Rossiya , my girlfriend is Russian and they are playing in white tomorrow ( PNE Supporter and up Lillywhites) Ashuravin will win it for them against the Dutch . We are not arrogant but England is a big name in World football , we love football and have massive support majority fun loving people , please all get your chips off your shoulders , everybody is entitled to opinion but don't be jealous of Englands World Status its historical and I do not appologise for it !!!
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The Germany/Portugal game made me realize that we are very unlikely to win a major international tournament in my lifetime. Germany had organization, persistence and alertness whereas the Portuguese had skill, flair, and were comfortable in possession. Most of the teams in the tournament base their game-plan around at least one of those sets of attributes, and teams like Holland and Italy can rely on both. England do not have the skill to play like Portugal and neither the intelligence to mobilize and prepare like Germany. We can rarely defend a lead because there is no culture of keeping the ball and all this starts at school where aggressive fathers shout at referees and winning games by any means is all that counts. What we use as a substitute for all of those attributes is an undefined thing we like to label "passion" which of course is a recognizable quality in, say, music, acting or even love-making, but is a meaningless term in the sense of football, which has a finite and easily-defined objective. In addition we have tended to dismiss the penalty shoot-out as a necessary evil for precisely the same reasons - the same attributes are required to be good at taking them: you either do your homework(like the Germans) or you're naturally good at taking them (like the Italians). None of this is rocket science.
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Scotland are irrelevant as a nation when it comes to football?
That'll be why the most succesful mangers in the English game are Scottish.
We have small popualtion compared to England and do the best with the resources we have which cant be said for England.
Just as well Scotland arent 'irrelevant' as a nation when it comes everything else.
Football is a game but it appears that in England its a matter of life and death. When people think of England, they think of......erm.....wait a minute....Im sure I can think of something.....oh yeah.... Football, and only football... well maybe hooliganism aswell. Football is all England has and ur not even good at that. Its quite sad.
As for Scots hating English cause its all weve got. Is that why the rest of europe hates england aswell. causes thats all theyve got?
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England doesn't deserve to be there. Compare the passion shown by Croatia and other nations towards their country to the apathy shown by many of the multi millionaire England players who can't be bothered to "turn up". How often do we see an England player withdrawing from the squad only to play for his club the weekend before and after the International? England players involved in the Champions league final were rested for the friendly against Trinidad whilst their foreign team mates departed to play in Euro 2008! I get the impression think many top players are cotent in their club "comfort zone" and sometimes regard England as an inconvenience- David Beckham excepted.
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I dont even know why the English press keeps bragging about the Premier League. Yes it has been good but look at the top scorers and performers. Most of them Non-English for god's sake. Look at the performances of socalled Greats of English football... Almost everytime they DONOT deliver the goods. Moreso English football is really boring. Creativity seems to be a Foreign word to the footballers. Except may be Gerrard and Terry who are really worldclass. The bubble has been burst and its time the concerned people press alarm and restructure the Football scene at home. Even though the German or Dutch or Spanish clubs havent been that good at the Champions league atleast they perform when it matters...
An Honest Critic!!!
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Look, it's simple. England are simply NOT good enough to be at 2008!
The group you were in you should have easily qualified if you had been any good. You football was tired, lacking flare or ideas. It was totally predictable and boring.
Just because England won the World Cup in 1966 it doesn't meat that you have the dive right to be all future final. You have to qualify, the same as everyone else. And yet again you were NOT good enough!
Had you reached the finals, based on the quality of football I have seen so far, you would NOT have got through the group stages.
Yes, I'm a Welshman, and yes we haven't qualified for jack sh*t in 30 millennium (yawn yawn yawn - same predictable rubbish from the England fans the team). Wales don't go around pretending they are the 'best team in the world'. AND BOYOS! neither are England!
Get over it - Euro 2008 has been a brilliant footballing spectacle without Beckham and the Bore-boys! (By the way, I think Mr Beckham, is by far ya best player - says it all doesn't it!)
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This seems to be focussing on the coverage of England and English football by the UK media. It is just a reflection of the demographic reality. Look at the population of the UK:
50 M English
10 M everyone else (of which 5 M Scots)
This is just the way it is - deal with it.
So, the TV shouldn't mention England for fear of upsetting our easily offended friends north of the border? Even though there are 1 of them for every 10 of us watching? Get real. I live in the north and we accept that the media concentrate on the London area - this is because it is our capital city and centre of government as well as the largest conurbation in the country by far. Get over it.
Can I just mention that I have met lots of Scots who are not obsessed with England and are intelligent enough to realise how the demographic above will reflect in the media?
However - you are not alone when it comes to 1966; I think all mention of it should be banned as everyone is sick of hearing about it. You are right to point out that we are perennial underachievers in terms of international football, as well as the most undeservedly hyped team in the world. All the glamour and WAGS can't make up for the fact that our so called 'superstars' aren't really as good as some people think they are. No-one is saying they are.
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Being English, of course I am disappointed that England are not there, but they simply do not deserve to be.
Hopefully, the English players will learn from this and ensure that it will never happen again.
One thing I have noticed during Euro 2008 is how passionately the players sing their national anthems; so it would be nice to see the same from the English players to show that they really care.
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@ 205.
You are in England watching English coverage.
Of course our commentators will speak about it.
And yes we have done little on the World Stage since winning the world cup apart from in 1990 and 1996 where we narrowly missed out on making the finals. WE WILL STILL LOVE OUR TEAM.
Going by your logic the likes of Turkey, Croatia, Poland, Sweden etc are all irrelevant seeing as they have never made finals or won anything on the International stage.
I love the way Turks have made the semis and are getting high and mighty. You have terrible hooligan and crowd problems. Remember that Champions League match in Paris Turkish fans managed to get abandoned? Two Leeds fans stabbed to death in Istanbul?
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Just a funny postnote I could not support the Dutch they play in Preston North End's main rival's colours orange ( Blackpool FC ) and Russia are playing in WHITE tonight so no contest !!!
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214. At 3:01pm on 21 Jun 2008, tux271 wrote:
Being English, of course I am disappointed that England are not there, but they simply do not deserve to be.
Hopefully, the English players will learn from this and ensure that it will never happen again.
One thing I have noticed during Euro 2008 is how passionately the players sing their national anthems; so it would be nice to see the same from the English players to show that they really care.
..................................................................................................................................................................................................................you cannot be serious with that statement m8, english national anthem is so dull and depressing, almost suicidal, compare it with lets say, scotlands national anthem?? now were talking.....
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Here's a verse so they can get started learning for their next game.
By the way, it is the British national anthem, not the English one.
This explains why it's disliked north of the border, but it is the Scottish anthem as well, like it or lump it.
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May, by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush
And, like a torrent, rush
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.
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hmmm how does it go again ?
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Here's a verse so they can get started learning for their next game.
By the way, it is the British national anthem, not the English one.
This explains why it's disliked north of the border, but it is the Scottish anthem as well, like it or lump it.
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May, by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush
And, like a torrent, rush
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen.
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"You are in England watching England Coverage" WRONG
You are in Britain watching what should be British coverage.
Of course i forgot Britain = England
England = Britain or so it seems everywhere u go.
That is why Scots see themselves as Scottish, not British. Why should we have to sing the English national anthem if one of us wins an olypmic gold or grand prix etc. Screw that!!
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What has annoyed me most is the commentator's sycophantic appraisal of mediocre players because they are playing in/moving to the EPL.
I thought the last one wanted to have Deco's babies, and you could almost feel the joy in the voice of the commentator when talking about that Croatian that spurs have bought.
Both of those players are out of the tournament btw and you can count Ronaldo in that too. It's not just the England national team any more - now simply being a foreigner in the English Premier League is enough to make you an honorary Englishman.
I'm not angry about it, I just think it's pretty pathetic.
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1.
O flower of Scotland
When will we see
Your like again
That fought and died for
Your wee bit hill and glen
And stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again
2.
The hills are bare now
And autumn leaves lie thick and still
O'er land that is lost now
Which those so dearly held
And stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again
3.
Those days are passed now
And in the past they must remain
But we can still rise now
And be the nation again
And stood against him
Proud Edward's army
And sent him homeward
Tae think again
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this is scotlands national anthem ya muppet
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Not for the first time I have found myself enjoying a major tournament far more without England being there. No more stress over how bad they will play. No worrying about whether the fans will behave and no tabloid hype which has little foundation in fact.
Instead two weeks of impressive attacking football: Dutch brilliance, Spanish style, Turkish grit and typical German efficiency.
Lets forget England and fall in love with the game again.
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#I can't believe some of the so called English fans on here giving the Scots a hard time and calling them racists. It's clowns like you that cause the bitterness towards English football with all the "we should have been there, we are better than most of these teams, and the normal diatribe that seems to ooze from your mouths. Scots are not interested in you.
What we cannot stand is the constant mentions of England' s team throughout a commentary about two other teams. Commentators for the BBC (British NOT English brodacasting Corp) are there to commentate on the game in hand so where do they get off by constantly harping on about England.
YOU ARE NOT THERE! LIVE WITH IT! You do not have a divine right to be there. You are NOT the best team in the world!
Maybe the sooner you stop ramming england this and england that down our throats, us small minded Scots will stop moaning about England.
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@222
I completely agree with you... But as long as the media is able to convince the people at home that even though England hasnt qualified and even though they havent won a major tournament in the last million years, even though EPL dominates not because of English but foreign players, be proud of that!!! Thats Manipulation Pure!!! nd people buy it???
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The scots dont understand sarcastic do they ;)
Good luck all for the next quali`s...
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217. At 3:09pm on 21 Jun 2008, hoopybhoy74 wrote:
214. At 3:01pm on 21 Jun 2008, tux271 wrote:
Being English, of course I am disappointed that England are not there, but they simply do not deserve to be.
Hopefully, the English players will learn from this and ensure that it will never happen again.
One thing I have noticed during Euro 2008 is how passionately the players sing their national anthems; so it would be nice to see the same from the English players to show that they really care.
..................................................................................................................................................................................................................you cannot be serious with that statement m8, english national anthem is so dull and depressing, almost suicidal, compare it with lets say, scotlands national anthem?? now were talking.....
........................................................................................................................................................................................................................true, but it cannot be changed. Besides, the players could still show much more passion
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Until the more skillful and techincally better players hopefully start appearing in british football in 10-15 years (now that we've copied the successful european way of coaching) i think our teams, in particular england, best chance of improvement is to follow the example marco van basten set with holland. I remember seeing his first squad as national manager and barely knowing who any of the players were - he had dumped all the high earners that he deemed had fallen into a comfort zone (davids, seedorf, stam, kluivert, van der meyde, the de boers, overmars, makaay and even van nistelrooy for quite a while) and brought in a raft of young, hungry and gifted players. The challenge was set to the established players that if they wanted their places back they had to earn it. Some of them did, such as van nistelrooy, but the majority just whined that they wern't getting picked and even worse some retired from international football. This weeded out those unwilling to give 100% for their country and after the transitional period, look at them now, playing fantastic football and winning as well. Apply the same to england, dropping rooney, ashley cole, gerrard, lampard, terry etc and start young, bentley, agbonlahor, taylor, barry, richards, ashton etc. They'll probably still qualify for the world cup and by the time it comes around they'll be (deservedly)cone of the favourites. Just look at france, they kept faith in their old guard and now anyone would fancy their chances against them.
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True football fans like to see all the biggest teams competing and deserved or not that includes England.
Whenever there is a major tournament I want all the big footballing nations present and would be hugely disappointed if any of Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Holland didn't make it.
I admit the hooligan element is a complete embarrassment but there are so many acts of friendship and good humour that go unreported.
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I prefer Jurasalem , by far the better and more rousing but in fact very peaceful Hymn and about fighting for peace , but very English . BTW I always see myself as English but will support Scotland , Eire, NI or Wales in international competitions ( obviously not against us ). Up the Lillywhites , down the orange !
BTW we will be back with Gerrard , Ferdinand , Terry , Lampard , Cole and Cole , Rooney , Defoe , SW Phillips !!! So don't despair the English will be there 2010 !
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218. At 3:13pm on 21 Jun 2008, AMACCL wrote:
Here's a verse so they can get started learning for their next game.
By the way, it is the British national anthem, not the English one.
This explains why it's disliked north of the border, but it is the Scottish anthem as well, like it or lump it.
Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May, by thy mighty aid,
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush
And, like a torrent, rush
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.
.....................................................................AMACCL, you are a deckhead and need to get a life, my wife is english and its f a holes like you that i could not stand living down there ,so thats why my wife and 2 kids are living in scotland with me , england is a nice place with many nice people but u are a nobber
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The problem in England is that people are tooooooooooooo critical of their players and fail to give them space to breathe. Everyone is mentioning how overpaid the England players are. But it is not just them, they are overpaid all over the world. And when we non-English (Albanian in this case) talk about the England players, it is not that we like them for being overpaid or cool, or involved in fashion and with good cars and lots of money or whatever, but it is because thay are trully good as individual players in positions they play. In the midfield you have Gerard and Hargreaves and Barton, while in the world there are only few other midfileders of the top class: Gatusso, Pirlo, Fabregas, Zidane, Cana, Van der Vart, Ballack, Kaka and few more; then you have wingers: Bentley, Joe Cole, Lennon, Beckham, and the resto of the world has: Ronaldo, Quaresma, and a couple more; then strikers Rooney, can be compared to and is of the same class as Tevez, Torres, Villa, Drogba. In defence there is Rio Ferdinand, Terry, Wes Brown, Ashley Cole; they are the best defenders in the world, and as good as Zambrota or any other good defender. And, being a Man U fan I wish to see Foster as keeper but Hart is also good for the time being.
So you can see that the England players rank with the other top players in the world, and we like them because of the way they play not cos they are overpaid.
So far the problem has been the managers failing to pick the right team, but I hope Cappelo will manage to do that, and if he does pick the right team, then everyone will witness the true potential of a great team.
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222. At 3:13pm on 21 Jun 2008, KillieJimbo wrote:
What has annoyed me most is the commentator's sycophantic appraisal of mediocre players because they are playing in/moving to the EPL.
I thought the last one wanted to have Deco's babies, and you could almost feel the joy in the voice of the commentator when talking about that Croatian that spurs have bought.
Both of those players are out of the tournament btw and you can count Ronaldo in that too. It's not just the England national team any more - now simply being a foreigner in the English Premier League is enough to make you an honorary Englishman.
I'm not angry about it, I just think it's pretty pathetic.
============================
You have to admit that they both played phenomenally well though!
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Hey Paul Fletcher, I find it a shame that so many people responding to this blog post are slating you and the BBC for what I think is a good article. None of them are even reading your replies, where you state specifically that you aren't bringing up England when in conversation with the fans at Euro2008, and also that you aren't being overly-patriotic.
It's typical for people on here to feel aggrieved about the England national side, because of their poor performances, or maybe because they are simply sick of hearing about the 'England' that just hasn't fulfilled their expectations. Well Paul has already stated how he is enjoying an England-less Euro 2008, he's already discussed in his blog how it is others who talk kindly about England so why are comments directed at WHY ENGLAND shouldn't be there? Save your complaints for your own blogs. Your moaning about Englands lack of tactics/technically gifted players/hooliganism probs aren't anything to do with Phil's post.
I personally get excited when at least one of the home nations are involved, and I would like to see England pit their wits against the big boys especially as we always seem to give the big teams a good game. England v Germany, England v Portugal, England v Holland. They may be historic games.. but they've all been exciting encounters and fans abroad share that interest in seeing dramatic games. And as pointed out already, most of these people that Phil has met, have seen our English players in the Premiership and plastered all over the media with the dumb paper rumours lol. So why shouldn't they say they would have liked to see these players involved in the tournament?
Before I get slated for defending this devil blog writer who has 'england tinted glasses' let me just state that I've really enjoyed the tournament soo far. I just think all this critisism of Phil's blog is a little unfair. Thanks for reading.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Yeah I`ll give you that one Tartan, the Germans did the same overhaul with Löw. I did think a few years ago that the likes of Lineker or Shearer may do the job as Van Baston has...
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I suppose i'm glad we're not there. We didn't deserve it and would have been appalling with that dimwit maclown still in charge.
The reporting of the tounament has been really refreshing as well and not just the usual england, england, hoolies, wags etc...
I hope holland win it, fabulous stuff! Especially stuffing les bleus hehe.
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@231 how exactly do you figure out your list of 'deserved' teams?
Tournaments won? If you are counting England, Holland, Spain then you have to count Denmark, Greece, Czechs. Btw - all those won tournaments more recent than the 'big 3' you mentioned.
We have qualifying for a reason. Sorry to say it but if only the 'deserving' teams made it we might as well watch Germany vs Italy over and over.
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Why Italy ? Dont understand that one... Holland vs Germany yes ...
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Because Italy have won the World Cup 4 times and Holland never have?
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Hoopybhoy 74
Please stop embarrassing me and the rest of this country or I will be forced to agree with our English counterparts as to the intelligence of my countrymen.
What you have quoted is a pub song written by a folk singer which has been used in place of the British national anthem since the early 90s at Scottish football and rugby matches.
The official anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Britain and Northern Ireland is God Save the Queen. None of the component countries of the United Kingdom has their own separate anthem.
In the eighties, embarrassed at being the only country in the world to boo their own anthem, the SFA started playing Scotland the Brave instead. After the rugby team adopted The Flower of Scotland Song, the SFA followed suit.
For those English people among us who think that God Save the Queen is an English anthem please read above and previous post 220.
The Scots dislike the anthem because of the 6th verse and it's the 6th verse which causes booing when it is played in front of Scots fans.
(Except for Hoopy Bhoy who has now been educated.)
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What i don't understand is why everyone (especially platini) complains that there are too many foreign players in the premier league; at least all of the England players play in England, except Beckham; whereas, i think it was the czech republic where none of their starting XI play domesticly in their own country...
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English football is held in high regard in Europe and in particular in Germany.
I'm sure many German football fans would have liked to see England at the tournament as they always like to beat the old enemy (and harp on about "that goal").
I must say apart from Germany's progression in the tournament, this has been one of the best major international tournaments for many a year.
I'm glad that the England team that played the quali's didn't make it though, as firstly McClaren would still be in place, which mean that secondly England would have been dire and thirdly, at least we now have a man in charge of the national team that one: knows about football and two: will not be dictated to by the press or players which players or system to play.
Another added bonus is he won't be in the press all the time for speaking to other clubs and having afairs with the FA's secretaries!!!!!
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I think you're being a bit too negative about England. My country, Holland, performed poorly in qualifying (1 point in two games vs Romania, two 1-0 wins against Luxemburg etc), and turned out to be great so far in this tournament. No one here expected this, and van Basten was very unpopular. Now all of a sudden he is declared a genius. Perhaps England could have surprised everyone as well, the players aren't that bad... The only question is if there will be 11 English players left in the EPL in ten years time.
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"It's a shame England aren't here" Nice headline from the EBC. You cant watch a game without mention of england or a player being linked to an english team.
I have heard scotland mentioned twice since the tournement started and i'm yet to hear wales.
Forcing people to pay for the BBC that soley focuses on england for everything and never even bid for the rights for the scotland games yet managed to find 200million for the F1.
Had a laugh at them saying the 2 teams that knocked england out could make the final. what the hell does that have to do with anything??? Doesnt mean that England would have even won a game.
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I'm starting to wonder at how deep this misguided idea of England's worth in the European Championships goes.
You are ranked 14th out of all european teams in that tournament. Behind such massive footballing nations as Russia, Denmark, Greece, Yugoslavia (who don't even exist), BELGIUM, HUNGARY etc.
Seriously. In all the Euro championships England have made it to, the best you've done is two semi finals with one of those being on home soil.
That is not impressive no matter how you try to pretend otherwise. England are not a 'big' team in terms of success.
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We have qualifying for a reason. Sorry to say it but if only the 'deserving' teams made it we might as well watch Germany vs Italy over and over.
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Why then pray tell do the hosts how were rubbish get automatic qualification?
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Just goes to show it,s the English nature to be negative,PF is telling you that people are saying good things about the English and you moaning about it.
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No one misses England-don't be stupid.We are not popular at these events and to suggest that any competition would miss the mediocrity of English football is wide of the mark and full of self righteousness. Even if we had qualified they would be back home by now anyway!
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No one misses England-don't be stupid.We are not popular at these events and to suggest that any competition would miss the mediocrity of English football is wide of the mark and full of self righteousness. Even if we had qualified they would be back home by now anyway!
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If you crawled out from under your stone you find out otherwise
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I like how the scouser in comment one rubbishes all of england apart from the incompetent Crouch, Owen and Gerard. Gerard tries hard, but Crouch and Owen should have been put out of their misery and removed at the very start.
I wonder if the scouser is supporting spain by any chance?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
lol
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Did you consider that the fans you spoke to were just being polite?
I mean come on - when I go abroad everyone is pretty happy to bumm up the Scots. I wonder why that is? I spoke to a Dutch guy and a South African a few months ago who told me that we should have qualified instead of France.
I'm pretty sure they'd say the opposite to a Frenchman. Really just get over it, nobody actually misses England except the English.
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In no particular order, some of the things we're NOT missing this summer:
reading about WAGS
the hype
reading about metatarsals
reading about umbrellas
hype
reading about golden balls
penalty misses
the lampard-gerrard debate
baddiel and skinner
more hype
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Well actually the FIFA ranks England 9th in the world so that burst yr knowledge of football. ;)
We are ta
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Bulldog70 I'm talking about the PERFORMANCE of each team in the Euro Championships.
England are 14th, behind all those teams I mentioned. Yes it's true - in terms of Euro performance England are below the likes Belgium, Greece, Denmark and Yugoslavia. That's how much you 'deserve' to be there.
And btw, after this tournament is finished England will be dropping down the Fifa rankings to a more reasonable rating.
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Once again instead of having the intelligence to actually understand what a post says, some posters prefer to comment upon what they want to think it says.
I repeat:
No-one thinks England should have qualified. No-one thinks they deserve to be there.
The point is - what are other europeans thoughts on the fact that they are absent?
If you can't understand this, please don't bother attempting to apply your tiny intellect to anything else...
and btw:
I am one of many Englishmen who dislike our national anthem. I also believe it is insulting to other UK nations (as well as having precious little to do with our land or our people) and should not be used by anyone. I cannot blame them for using another anthem. I wish England would do the same.
Also, I do not think that Scotland is irrelevant in terms of football. They have been and still are major shapers of the game as we know it, just not in terms of current international football. Much the same as England really!
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Hoopybhoy74
You've got a pc - use it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7126929.stm
Flower of Scotland is a wee sing song before a football match.
I find the "wee bit highland glen" line particularly cringeworthy.
Now, Loch Lomond.....that would be my choice.
(If there was a choice - which there isn't.)
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How long does it take for the fact that England are not taking part in Euro 08 to sink in?
Get over it.
England must play as a team and not as 11 over inflated egos. If they can do this then they will challenge at the big tournaments, if not there will be more misery to come.
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As a Scotland supporter, I can fully understand that when England are in the finals of a major tournament, the BBC will put huge amounts of coverage into England, and what's happenning in the England camp - because that's what most people are interested in - can England win, it is normal that the coverage dies down when England get knocked out.
What I don't understand is why this tournament, which England are already knocked out of, sees so much coverage devoted to England - especially after Scotland and Northern Ireland had such successful qualifying campaigns (anyone remember the nights in Spain or France?).
The biggest example for me was the interview that Gary Linekar held with Fabio Cappello in one of the half-times. For me, the big question was - Why did he only interview the England manager??? Why did the BBC not look to give a hollistic view of the home nations by also producing interviews with Burley, Worthington and Toshack to air at half times?
I have really no problem with greater coverage of England, other the 3 other home nations, they remain the best chance for home success and house the vast majority of the UK population, but this tournament seems to be a case in point of giving sole coverage to England. Is it really that hard for the BBC to get out of London and look what's happenning with the other home football teams. Surely it's not that hard BBC to give a bit of TV air time for those of us who are interested in teams other than England!
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Jinbo, of course it will go down, we arent playing. The FIFA status stays though (where it belongs) but its irrelevant really. If Italy are lucky enough to scrape through to the next round again, Holland, Germany or even Turkey will show you how football is played.
But there again, the Italians could show them a trick or 2 on diving in the box for penalties.
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AMACCL , soon WILL be a choice mate, thank god we will finally get rid of you lot, been like a bad smell for 2 long!!!!what choice do you have with your national anthem, god save our german queen, now that is cringeworthy, and its wee bit hill n glen, agree with loch lomond though, maybe you have a brain afterall, and you secretly love scotland like many other english....
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Fletch, we dont want to know wat the europeans think about england not being there. Be more creative and report on the teams at the tournament or let someone else.
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There should have been a home-nations tournament during the summer, as none of us qualified; it would have been good...
...although england would just have lost and the state of english football would sink even lower.
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you secretly love scotland like many other english....
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You and people like you are the reason the English have no time for you, with your embittered unintelligent utterances.
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MY O MY, the boring British, none of them are at the Euro,so they create there own tournament arguing over the natnional anthem
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One thing I am really looking forward to is the Germany vs Turkey game. Here in good old "Deutschland", where many Turks live have a trouble in behaving themselves also in normal day to day business, it sort of annoys the locals from time to time. (What was that about hooligans and the English ?)
Anyway, in the 5 main cities here, WW3 is going to break out on Wednesday (Berlin, Hannover, Munich, Dortmund and Hamburg). This is going to be a night to remember, sort of D-Day dejavu. I have no idea who will win but there will definately be trouble after the match.
Its not just an English problem, thats all I was wanting to put accross. Since a few here keep on going on about it regularly !
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@267 Yep I agree with you. We should have resurrected the home nations so we'd have had even more football to watch this summer.
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what is it that we love about scotland?
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englandcomeon , love it m8
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Fletch, we dont want to know wat the europeans think about england not being there
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Why not? I think the British (print) press does enough hatchet work on the squad, it's alright to tell the truth about the positive side of English football.
It is true that Europeans (especially people in the know) hold the English game in high regard, especially as it's the oldest association and therefore seen as the "home of football"
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Sorry, some of my comments have been off topic.
I'm working at the moment on a construction job on which there are several nationalities.
The Croat and Rumanian engineers were desparately hoping Italy would be knocked out as the bosses are Italian.
The Italians were having a a wee smile at me when they thought I was English. Basically sniggering.
When they realised I was Scottish they just weren't interested. Better luck next time.
I summary I would say that the fans of each country don't really give a toss about other countries.
To think otherwise is just part of one country's thinking that they are more important than the next.
There's a phrase along the lines of, "yer heid's are up yer er...."
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the fact you lot never defeated us must stick in your throat like a needle, cant wait to c the back of you lot forever when independence comes.
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"Deutschland", where many Turks live have a trouble in behaving themselves also in normal day to day business, it sort of annoys the locals from time to time. (What was that about hooligans and the English ?)
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I'd be fairly careful what you say there son, as that pretty racist. Before you answer I have no idea, I live about 3 km away from Kreuzberg in Berlin and the Turks will not start WW3 despite all your dodgy accusations
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god this post is garbage !!! im off now, f this shoite
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I`m up for that one hoopy ! The sooner we are all independant the better. No more IRA and all that rubbish the better, but whats that got to do with football ? Hmmm.. Have they got a team ;)
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I think most people are missing the point that many of these people in europe may simply be commenting that it would be nice if all the top countries were competing in the Euro finals. There will probably not be any affinity in their comments. Just a statement.
I'm from NZ and therefore count rugby as a major source of my sports watching. The comments would be similar if Ireland, France, Scotland or Wales missed out getting to the Rugby world cup finals.
Only the most one-eyed, anti-English person would deny that England aren't in the top 16 football countries in the world, let alone Europe.
The fact that they often play rubbish and don't deserve to be there this time is a completely different matter. The same with respect to their fans. Those arguments have nothing to do with the article.
If Germany or Italy fail to make the next world cup most reasonably balanced people may have a joke at their expense, but will comment that it's a pity they weren't there. Were the Moscow or Atlanta olympics better without the USA or USSR ?
Yes, it's great when the underdogs beat the more fancied, but organisers and most fans would still prefer to have all the 'big' names at their competitions.
Having said that, these Euros are the best I can remember...but they still would be even if England had competed.
Those that are making derogatory comments about England are in fact giving them the important status that they are actually arguing against.
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Wasnt supposed to be racist, its not my scene, its just fact, ask the Germans themselves in general ... to 80% anyway...
Still wait for the result on wednesday and see who`s celebrating ! The winner will meet Holland in the final I`m sure..
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I had to check my diary to ensure this was'nt an April 1st windup !!!
England are'nt there because thet did'nt deserve to be (like us) - but we ain't whining about it into our beer.
It's also been a civilised tournament so far (unless I've missed something) - largely due to the absence of drunken English fans.
The Swiss and Austrian police are delighted about their absence.
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"Only the most one-eyed, anti-English person would deny that England aren't in the top 16 football countries in the world, let alone Europe. "
I repeat, we are rated 9th actually by fifa...
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Still wait for the result on wednesday and see who`s celebrating ! The winner will meet Holland in the final I`m sure..
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I for one hope most sincerely that Turkey win as the Germans crowing on about how good they are is pretty sickening, especially as until the last game they were cr...............
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It's also been a civilised tournament so far (unless I've missed something)
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What about the first couple of games where whordes of German "supporters" attacked the opponents fans, and several have been stopped on the border entering with a boot full of weapons????
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"I for one hope most sincerely that Turkey win as the Germans crowing on about how good they are is pretty sickening, especially as until the last game they were cr..............."
I give you that one, thing is so have the Italians, rubbish from day 1 and could still go to the final. Know what I mean ? Its not the standard of football that counts alot of the time, there is alot of luck involved...
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32. At 11:48am on 21 Jun 2008, Kieraen wrote:
Sorry forgot to add that, Paul Fletcherf is apsolutely correct. Every fan is asking about england. This is a trueth, not just because I am english when i speak, but because england is a world cup winner, a big team and the so called inventers of the world game.
Every country has a greater love of the england football team than you would expect.
The reason why other fans dont care about ieland wales scotland and n ireland is for the exact same reason why you care when germany qualify and not austria switzerland poland denmark. Its not to do with the size of nation but to do with the quality of players, their media coverage and there footballing history.
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Perhaps you could learn to write, or spell, in your own language?
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@282
"It's also been a civilised tournament so far (unless I've missed something) - largely due to the absence of drunken English fans."
You can talk.
What about Manchester a few weeks sgo or have you forgotten that already?
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Its not the standard of football that counts alot of the time, there is alot of luck involved..
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That's only true to a degree as the Germans would say the "luck of the plucky" in other words, if keep going and try your best sometimes you get things go your way even if it wasn't deserved.
I am also happy that Italy came through for several reasons.
1: If any team can "do" the Germans it is Italy
2: the first goal that they conceeded against Holland was in no way a "correct goal" even the Dutch didn't think so.
Therfore after the ref disallowed a perfectly good goal and gifted a pen against them in the second group game, it looked as if there was a conspiracy against them
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what a load of tripe. Every other football nation has dedicated, passionate and loyal fans who would love to follow their team to the alps, but alas did not qualify either. However for you to suggest England are missed from this tournament due to the foreign owned league, played by the same players as in this championship is tripe. England and their 20% of fans who like to throw garden furniture at police and other self respecting football fans I can guarantee you are not missed by the locals of switzerland and austria. In my own opinion this is possible one of the best championships i have seen in the past 20 years and the fact that England are not present does not having a bearing on the quality. In fact if England where there, I think would detract from the quality of football played by the dutch, spanish and croats!
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Well, im pretty happy England arent there. For Starters they arent there because they simply werent good enough. Not due to bad managing or wrong tactics its because the teams that beat you were better (not in some but in these they were) When England do get through, all you here is ENGLAND 08. England are the best, we invented so we have arrived at the conclusion that we are the masters. Its nice to hear about other teams now. If they did manage to get through they would have no doubt been dumped out in the group stage. England are not in Austria or Switzerland due to there mince team. FINAL.
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fletcher you are an unmitigated dumbkof! Stay off the booze before you blog. It ain't interesting.
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Well that's it then. It's Au Revoir, Aufwiedersehen etc. from me the last known supportive patriotic Englishman. It's time to drop a bomb on England, the scum of the world as nobody likes us. Nobody wants us. And that's people in Enland!!!! Okay you win. Let's not allow anyone except Englishmen in the Premier League. Let's stop foreign players coming in as obviously in this hideous country there is only bad. Let's stop TV transmissions of the Premier League to anyone who cannot support an objective view of the national league.
This article has proved not only are England hated by our neighbours (not all of them. Thank you to our continental supporters by the way) but the biggest load of cowards, a**holes are the ones from England who live here and slag the country off without proper substance. If you don't like England, just leave before the bomb drops. You're not wanted.
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Not due to bad managing or wrong tactics its because the teams that beat you were better
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That's where you are wrong, it was a weak manager that didn't know what he was doing who didn't even have the decency to resign when England didn't qualify.
If using an unusual "continental" 3-5-2 system away, against a technically good team (Croatia) that have only ever lost 1 game at home in qualis for a major tournament is good management then as the saying goes "I'm a Dutchman"
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"What about Manchester a few weeks sgo or have you forgotten that already?"
Education education.
1st: The subject is national not club football.
2nd: Scotland have been officially recognised twice for being "best fans of the tournament."
3rd: Have England's fans been officially recognised in a positive light?
4th: Rangers fans are unionists. They are "the quintessential British side. They therefore belong to England as much as Scotland. You only have to look at them to see the similarities between them and the English national fans.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Rangers fans are unionists. They are "the quintessential British side.
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You'll be telling us they're not Scottish soon, and that the Scottish are tea-totalers soon
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Pining for sure... as sorely missed as british 'cuisine'...
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I've been to every World Cup since 1990 and every European Championships since 1996. Although I will accept that there has been an improvement in the behaviour of English supporters over that time there is still a general air of tension, menace and fear whenever the English supporters gather in significant numbers. This atmosphere is created by a minority of so-called supporters but it is a very significant minority (certainly much higher than the percentage of thugs amongst other countries' support base). In general, at these tournaments, the rule of thumb is if you see a group of 10 or more England fans then walk in the other direction.
People do look forward to seeing big teams in these tournaments so I do understand people saying they miss the English team. However, ask most of the cities that have hosted English fans in a major tournament in the past and you may get a very different answer.
Songs about German bombers, world wars, No surrender, Rule Britannia and racial and religious taunts seem to be more prevalent amongst English supporters than any other national support. The majority of English supporters will say that this is nothing to do with them but by their inaction they allow their reputation to be sullied. The England team may well be missed at this tournament but the supporters are not missed by too many people.
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.
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England have woken up to notice most mainland European Teams have just overtaken them completely. Now that Croatia (The nice team that thumped England:)) have now dropped out. Perhaps Russia shall follow (nail in the coffin for England) I have no objections to foreign players in a league but the Premiership has to many and it is clearly not helping out homegrown players advance. Arsenal being a superb example. Wegner cleary doesnt like The english does he. Its time to drop some of the old english players and the players who have lost there talent (BECKHAM) and bring in young players. It may take a while for England to come back and compete with the top Countrys but its for the best. THe qualifiers was a wake up call that fabio hasnt answered. FIrst game he got he just fielded the same team. Try out more young players Numpty.
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as sorely missed as british 'cuisine'
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well at least the English didn't dream up the deep fried Mars bar.
German "cuisine" isn't much cop either btw, meat meat and more meat, floating in fat.
They spend the least of all european nations of their income on food BTW
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LOL, if that would happen, the footbal as a european game doesnt exist anymore... No manU, No arsenal, No liverpool, No Chelsea, oh did I just mention the top 5 teams in europe there ? Silly me ... LOL
Dont get too depressed Paulace, take it like a man. We just have the best here and thats why they dont like us obviously !
Critisism is part of life and what makes a person a better person is how you deal with it...
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I must admit to being slightly bemused by this blog.
Let's assume Fletch isn't lying through his teeth and that England actually *are* being missed at Euro 2008.
The real question should be 'Why?'.
It's not because England have a good record in the tournament...it's rubbish to be frank. It's almost certainly not due to your wonderful fans - although I'm certain you have many I'm more certain about your undesirable element.
Your women are a bit mediocre - come on you know what I mean. None of the French or Italian fans are missing your ladies for sure.
It's not about Englands style of football - If you wanted to see that you just had to watch Sweden's 3 games.
I think what we are left with is this - Most foreigners actually like to see England flop, much in the same way that we like to see players like Ballack and Ronaldo miss penalties. It's all about the 'big names' being shown up and flopping. Problem this time was, England flopped before they even got to the tournament proper.
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England arent missed. Thats it. You didnt deserve to qualify. ENgland were not good enough. Thats it. No Buts or if's. DIDNT DESERVE TO GO TO FINALS.
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FIrst game he got he just fielded the same team. Try out more young players Numpt
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If anyone is a "numpty" it isn't Mr Capello.
That is the point of friendlies to see where you stand assess the team and look for alternatives. The old names might just be that, but there aren't many eligible players that are better than the current squad.
Capello likes experienced players as you can rely on them, as for more young players, do you suggest he do what Eriksson did and take a young boy that was never going to play, and chuck him in at the deep end?
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England arent missed. Thats it. You didnt deserve to qualify. ENgland were not good enough
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Not in Scotland, no.
However, in Europe people do hold England in high regard, regardless of your pettiness and blind hatred of England and the English
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i doubt many people even care about england being missing from the tournament.
scotland on the other hand are everybodys favourite 'other country' and are hugely missed
:-p
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What is this guy on about?! Who cares what some dutch jouro says when everyone is aware that English fans are pretty much hated abroad - the 'English disease' and all that. These days in fact young English lout holiday maker is not that far behind the classic Englsih soccer thug in the hated by the foriegn public stakes. These football hooligans ARE Engalnd fans too - none of this attach themselves to English fans nonsense - they are English, they like football and they support the English national teams so they ARE England fans!
Anyhow, check out this article entitled 'why England will win Euro 2008' written by a BBC jouro back in 2003 - oh the arrogance, oh the delusions of grandure!
Some of the stuff he says in quite funny but I do believe he honestly thought the likes of Neil Mellor and Micheal Tonge were going to make England into world beaters - oh dear!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/2641675.stm
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I think we have been through why England didnt make it, is there a Parrot in the line ?
Style of football is an interesting aspect, see England`s today, overpayed players only interested in their walletts and what in them. No passion for the country achievement and lacking ideas on the pitch. Quality is there but dont want to use it, so it seems.
Germany, 2 Polish born strikers and a few midfield quality players like Lahm, Ballack and Schweinsteiger behind them. Play good football from time to time, mainly when the preassure is on.
Italy, oooold players, bad quality football, know how to dive professionally and good at penalties. I`m sure Luke gave them the Jedi Force.
Dutch, great football at last, quality players and love for the countries achievement.
Endex
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Pining for england!?! Give me a break. The English are the Americans of Europe.
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Thanks Bulldog70, you're right, but it's hard work fighting with people from your own country. I don't mind the banter or differences of opinion from abroad, and I'm not disillusioned or blinkered but arguing against people from within who ARE is so frustrating. It IS only a game of course but England haters from England are showing their hand. I bet they're all under 30 years of age as well. They really are clueless. Remember, patriotism in England is basically illegal. Oh, and by the way, I mean England, not Britain. I've been such a supporter of Britain and the UK in the past, but as it's now 'uncool' to be English, so I've had to refocus on the country of my birth, which apparently is my fault.
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105. At 1:17pm on 21 Jun 2008, Phil G - BBC Sport wrote:
#101
The BBC is covering every game live despite the fact there is no home interest. I think that fact should be applauded not denigrated.
Oh hahahaha Thats a good one
Indeed give yourselves a pat on the back for showing us the coverage of the Euros2008, but the thing is, the BBC already bought the rights to show these matches a few years beforehand so it would be a waste of money buying the rights to the games and then not screen them just because England failed to reach the finals (I would also include Scotland, Wales and Nothern Ireland in this statement but clearly the BBC is more interested in the one country which happens to begin with the letter E)
But can you answer me this
How come the EBC (I mean BBC) can afford to pay for live coverage for the upcoming England world cup qualifying games and say that they couldn't afford the money to screen the upcoming Scotland world cup qualifying matches yet somehow manage to find £200 million to regain live coverage of the Formula 1? It wouldn't be because of Lewis Hamilton by any chance that happens to be a Englishman?
Seriously the BBC needs to get a grip and stop going overboard with the England connection every 15 seconds and nae offence mate but yer article stinks of typical English grandoise
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These days in fact young English lout holiday maker is not that far behind the classic Englsih soccer thug in the hated by the foriegn public stakes
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What utter rubbish, all nations have objectionable tourists. BTW the only place I've ever been robbed in was not New York or in Turkey or Italky, no it was in Valencia, have you seen Russian tourists?
Have you seen how the Germans behave.
The English are no worse than others, Dutch and Italian club football has a terrible name.
The Spanish are notoriously racist, see the game played against the Spanish where the crowd started making mokey noises and gestures, so don't come that one
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"Pining for england!?! Give me a break. The English are the Americans of Europe."
hmm somebody got a 6 in History ... The Americans are Europeans ! :) Just thought I`d fill you in on that one !
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the BBC already bought the rights to show these matches a few years beforehand so it would be a waste of money buying the rights to the games and then not screen them
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WHY?
The normal practice is then to flog the rights in part or full to private companies such as BSB or Eurosport etc, easy, couild have got some of the license fee back then, ploughed it into grass roots football programmes
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Yes, Arsene Wenger is the sole blame for the demise of English football. When he's had to deal with the likes of Ashley Cole, David Bentley (who couldnt even be bothered playing for the England U-21s) and Jermaine "whoops I did it again!" Pennant, then maybe he thought he was doing you all a favour.
Then again, paying 30million quid for Ferdinand and Rooney, which inflates the prices of all decent english players, doesnt exactly help. I mean to say, Liverpool want 15million for Crouch...15million!! You could buy 3 foreign players of the same quality for that price.
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Someone got a 6 in geography... By the way, historically we are all African and divergents of australopithecines, ridiculous isn't it?
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looking at the quality of teams in the euro at the moment, england dont deserve to be in the competition and if we were then we would not have made it past the knock outs. we dont deserve to be in the competion. its a blessing in disguise for me that we are not as it allows me to enjoy the football being played whatever the team is thats playing and not have to worry about whether or not england are winning
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England? Let us be honest, isn't the English team over-rated? Isn't that the reason why the team never achieves anything? The players are over-hyped as well and this leads to two outcomes:
1. either the player crumbles under pressure due to this over-hyping or
2. the start thinking they are better than everybody when they are not.
It is good that England is not there. They need to start being realistic if they are to win anything in future.
Wake up and smell the coffee England, before you miss out on the World cup too.
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1. either the player crumbles under pressure due to this over-hyping or
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I agree this is a lot of the reason too much pressure, just don't make a mistake and what happens when your nervous.........you make a mistake.
The thing is, the players available are definitely as good as say Germany's players, so they ought to be able to win it.
It England didn't have such quality available (remeber that 5:1 in Munich and no it wasn't a friendly) and Euro 96, if Gazza only took a size larger boots!!!!!!!
It's not unrealistic expectation, it seems to be that the players don't have a good enough basic technical understanding and aren't drilled properly in the basics "passing" etc.
If Greece can win it so can England, a decent manager and a bit of luck is all that's needed
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Every large footballing nation occasionally fails to qualify for a tournament, possibly apart from Germany!!
A one-off failure shouldn't be too concerning, though it should give them a kick up the backside. If it becomes a habit, then there might be a deeper malaise.
One thing I would say is that Croatia and Russia are showing that they are nobodies fools and I think as the world becomes more developed and more modern footballing structures, as well as better scouting systems spring up around the world, we've got to take into account that these smaller nations aren't the roll-overs they once were. Take Togo at the last world cup. We hadn't heard of them, new to the world cup so we immediately thought it was an easy 5-0 win for everyone in that group. In the end they lost all three matches by an aggregate 6-1, but they did compete. The same goes for a team like Israel. Maybe one day they will reach the WC, being in a particularly weak qualifying group for 2010, but they aren't nobodies and sometimes an away draw won't be that "bad" a result.
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its good England aren't present; saves the country and the continent from watching "John Terry boot the ball to Wayne Rooney who miskicks the ball wide."
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You're having a laff the only reason everyone misses the english is so that we can cheer every team that hammers them.
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317. At 5:12pm on 21 Jun 2008, englandcomeon wrote:
the BBC already bought the rights to show these matches a few years beforehand so it would be a waste of money buying the rights to the games and then not screen them
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WHY?
The normal practice is then to flog the rights in part or full to private companies such as BSB or Eurosport etc, easy, couild have got some of the license fee back then, ploughed it into grass roots football programmes
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I will tell you why
Check this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITC_Code_on_Sports_and_Other_Listed_Events
It is a catergory A event which means it can't be sold off as you suggested
Hope this helps
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Croatia and Russia have added much more excitement to this tournament than england would ever have.
and people mostly respect the premier league because of all the non-english talent.
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I thought only ITV was still going on about England not being there. Please get over it and write articles about the actual football...
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Although no team should be able to play on the big stage without earning their right to be there, it is a sad sight not only to see England missing one of the largest international tournaments but also seeing fickle fans professing how glad they are at England not competing.
Surely if the fans and the media truly get behind the team we wont need to see players crack under the pressure like they did. Where have the days gone where we can still be proud of our team even in defeat?
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Thanks Fletch, you've certainly stirred up a hornets' nest here! I must say I've enjoyed reading the posts but so many of the correspondents seem to miss a fundamental point, one that needs understanding in a non-anglo saxon light.
It's basically this - European footie rags are just as ridiculously idiotic, jingoistic, snide, overloaded with innuendo and as badly informed as The Sun. I cite "Marca" and "AS" in Spain, (the lowest fom of journalism on the planet), "L'Equipe" which is just a rung above them and "La Gazzetta dello Sport" which has cleaned up its act considerably since the 1980's, as well as O Jogo in Portugal. The difference is that the yobs who read them don't take their violence into the streets because getting drunk and caving heads in is not the European way.
Honestly, England fans need to cut the crap and ask themselves if they want to be European.
That's where it's at, believe me.
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It is a catergory A event which means it can't be sold off as you suggested
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It can be if the BBC agrees and if they are selling then I'm sure they would
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An event may be listed because it is of ‘national’ interest within England, Scotland,
Wales or Northern Ireland separately. This is the basis on which the Scottish FA
Cup Final, for example, has been listed. The Act allows for those events to be shown
only in the relevant part of the UK in which there is likely to be most viewer interest.
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read the ITC's reg's not WIKI (not authoritative) PEDIA
If considered not in the national interest i.e. no home nations competing there's no reason not to sell off the rights.
i.e. anyone wanting to see it must then pay for the privelidge
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332. At 6:00pm on 21 Jun 2008, englandcomeon wrote:
It is a catergory A event which means it can't be sold off as you suggested
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It can be if the BBC agrees and if they are selling then I'm sure they would
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Did you read the link at all?
Under the Broadcasting act they wouldn't be allowed to sell off these games
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As a football fan who has lived out of the UK for 35 years, I am delighted that England did not qualify. Despite having some nearly world class players they were never a team. It is noticeable that team spirit and not individual skills have so far made teams win.
I am in the happy position of being able to watch a game without nationalistic involvement and if the game is no good, can switch off without a qualm. Fortunately there have been some very good and skillful games, well above the level that England have shown recently.
Despite the Premier being declared the best football league in the world, it is curious to see that none of the top scorers play in the Premier league.
Maybe a little less hype and a little more teamwork would work wonders for national pride.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The Act is concerned with providing an opportunity for live coverage to be made
available. It is important to emphasise that the Act does not require or guarantee live
coverage of listed events, including coverage on Channel 3, Channel 4 and the BBC.
Nor does the Act prohibit exclusive live coverage of listed events on these or other
services subject to the ITC being satisfied that certain criteria have been met (see
paragraphs 13-20).
**********************************
Again, if none of the home nations aren't competing the rights could be sold
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"I am glad England arn't there. England are very boring and as a Liverpool fan I can't stand the over hype over many of the players. In particular Beckham, Lampard, and Rooney. Everytime they do the slightest thing good it gets blown out of proportion. Definitly club before country."
My only comment is: Stephen Gerrard LOL
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Definitly club before country."
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don't tell me you support Germany and you think Mr Schumacher is a fine sportsman-----------------SOLD YOUR SOUL
If you can beat 'em join 'em is it?
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Perhaps the home nations would have qualified if they entered the competition as United Kingdom. ^^
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I was in Switzerland/ Austria for the first week of the tournament along with a couple of friends. We were based in Bern along with almost 100,000 Dutch fans and during our stay we saw not one bit of trouble despite the huge volumes of alcohol being consumed by the Orange horde.
Time after time we were asked why we were there and had to explain it was our love of Football not England that was the reason. Almost every time we were told that England were missed and that the national team should have been there. Personally speaking I can't say that I was that upset, as the spectacle hasn't been diminished and there wasn't that edge that seems to exist when thousands of English fans congregate overseas.
Hup Holland!
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No... not right at all. How is this lad allowed to write for the BBC website?
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I too live outside the UK, where the majority of people are far more supportive of the England team than alot of people at home. Here in the US - I experience the same reaction as Fletcher has done in Europe. Not just from Americans, but others originally from Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Mexico, Czech Republic, Spain, Holland, Poland...etc. You get the picture - from just about everywhere! They all know the England players by name and by their strengths. During the World Cup it was the same thing - very positive, high hopes and excitement that they would go on and do well. They are dismayed they are not in Euro 2008. Americans and those living here are far more involved in English football than you would expect. They follow the national team and EPL/FA Cup/Champions League ardently. I think the press and people back home could take a lesson from them.....start to appreciate the team a bit more instead of slagging them off all the time....
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Theres one flaw with this article if you walk up to them and ask them as an englishman what you think of the english it would take a strange person to come out and say oh we dont want the english here we dont like them. Most people have a tendency to be polite rather than say something to offed them.
Id be suprised if (especially if you are talking to a fan whos team are there) if they would fell anything other than indifference towards english fans or fans of any other nation.
As for english comentators and pundits speaking about england although it can get tiresome you cant blame them for watching a brilliant tournament and wishing england were there. especially when most of the bbc pundits played for england its there specialest subject the reason they were hired.
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This tournement has been a breath of fresh air without England (and I say that as an England fan).
I'm sure most european fans couldn't care less if we weren't there.
I hope the fact that England aren't there motivates the team/manager to make sure we qualify for the WC. Unfortunately I think we have some pretty fundamental weaknesses in our game which stops us from being competative in international football. i.e. fast physical domestic game with less emphasis on technique. But these factors are what make the premier league so popular with many people so clearly something has to give.
ps I hate to say it but if we had qualified top of the group instead of crotia and ended up playing turkey, watching the scences from the fan mile last night surely it would have been WWIII before a ball was kicked.
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here here Solitare
at home the English don't appreciate how well they and their game are respected.
this self-destructive (from the print press) element is the reason why English teams don't have the same cohesion as say the Germans.
The Germans will always support the German team in a CL game even if it's his arch enemy in the league.
Can you imagine ManU supporters cheering on Liverpool to beat a foreign side in such a competition?
That's the real difference, as the English don't throw themselves at the feet of nationalism all the time we will never win owt
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It annoys me to see comments like.."im glad england didnt qualify cos they are... watever?"...and "by the way ive not lived in england for 35 yrs"...part of the whole process of playing in these tournamounts is that it gives hope to the fans even if we dont do to well!....ive followed England all my life and wouldnt have the cheek to say im an English fan if i didnt live here at least 50% of my life.....in football you win and you lose but i just like to see England play and try hard...this was a good post originaly but now feels full of negativity...
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ve followed England all my life and wouldnt have the cheek to say im an English fan if i didnt live here at least 50% of my life..
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That' total rubbish.
I would fit into your criteria, as I've lived abroad now for just under 10 years but am a born and bred Englishman.
It has been nice to watch the tournament for the football and not to worry about the result of games and embarassing football England offer up.
Of course it's not "good" that they didn't qualify, but one it means that we didn't have to endure dire football under McClaren and two that that numpty McClaren is gone
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Haven't read all of the comments here but some of the stuff said has been a little moronic.
1. Anyone who compares England to Northern Ireland in terms of non-qualification needs a better point of reference.
Try when the Dutch failed to qualify for the '02 World Cup. The Dutch people I knew at the time were severely gutted and tried to pass the tournament off as a non-event.
2. Croatia outclassed us in the qualifiers twice and should have made the semis of Euro 2008. I've been very impressed but what I saw of them.
Russia? We outclassed them at Wembley and then they scrabbled a win over us at the Luziniki Stadium on a dodgy pitch. I've tried to avoid watching them at this tournament because I don't actually think they're that good.
They got outclassed by Spain. They beat Greece? Big wow, Greece play the dullest football in the tournament. I did watch their match vs Sweden. The Swedish side just looked old and slow, the Russians weren't great and so "yes" I think England could have qualified for the knockout stages from Group D.
Having said that, the Dutch would have deep-fried us, for the Russians it'll be doubly so.
Anyway, that's where the "if onlys" come from.
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337. At 6:14pm on 21 Jun 2008, englandcomeon wrote:
The Act is concerned with providing an opportunity for live coverage to be made
available. It is important to emphasise that the Act does not require or guarantee live
coverage of listed events, including coverage on Channel 3, Channel 4 and the BBC.
Nor does the Act prohibit exclusive live coverage of listed events on these or other
services subject to the ITC being satisfied that certain criteria have been met (see
paragraphs 13-20).
**********************************
Again, if none of the home nations aren't competing the rights could be sold
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We could go back and forth about this
Just briefly
1) The rights have been bought a few years previously
2) Who would buy the rights if the BBC were selling?
3) The above act you mentioned only relates to the actual purchasing of rights, in short, if none of the home nations qualified then the BBC would reserve the right not to purchase and show the European Championships but seeing that they have already bought it they can't sell it off to another broadcaster, this is where it all falls down
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we might miss a british team, but noone is missing the overrated english team and its finger-pointing, self righteous and obnoxoius fans.
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I am not surprised that an English sports journalist is shocked at the effort and research others put into their work! We are rapidly becoming as insular as the yanks, how long the English Premier League is branded the World Premier League....oh game 39....
I like the fact that the Euros open the eyes of a nation that some of the best players in Europe don't play in England.
I recall Motson saying something about "Seedorf had never really done anything"....just won more medals in major continental competitions than nearly the whole of the England squad combined. It just about sums football in England up. We can sneer at European stars as not "doing it" on the big stage then create legends out of players like Shearer who never really did much compared to the players we dismiss as over rated.
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Paul,
I think your comments are insulting to this amazing tournament being played right now. I think your continuos exposure to this hype of England being a good football team has also gone to your mind. I am a neutral and watch football just for the sake of enjoying the beautiful game. I always wish that the may the best team win. Being a neutral helps me do that. In my last 10 years of watching football, your team is a big joke as a football team. During last time, the constant hype of England football team make me feel sorry just by imagining the humiliation was gonna come. Lo and behold, same thing happened. This time at Euro, I was glad we were saved the daily sound bites from Steve Maclaren, the great John T, Stevie G and what not. I can only thank God for this. This competition is celebration of football and lets not miss some one who was clearly not good enough. I like your posts but please spare us this emotional missing your country stuff. England would have only made the tournament poor except may be hosts.
By the way, thank you England for EPL. It is a pure joy each weekend to watch.
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on the big stage then create legends out of players like Shearer who never really did much compared to the players we dismiss as over rated.
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May I remind you Alan Shearer is the man to have scored the second highest number of goals in any Euro tournament i.e. 7 in a team that didn't win the trophy, so much for HYPE
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@349
They both didnt make it, how much more of a comparison do you need? In fact its worse for England because you have a substantially larger pool of players to select from. Just because you are one of the 'glamour' teams (although the football betrays that little fact) doesnt mean to say that fans from smaller countries arent as gutted when they don't qualify. In fact, given our results against teams like Spain, Sweden and even England, in recent years, I myself am more than gutted we didnt qualify...the cheek of it, eh?
When it comes to making a tournament interesting then it takes other countries to have a chance at winning, rather than the big nations, and when it comes to atmosphere both in and out of the stadium, then you wont get more exuberant than the Green and White Army. Northern Ireland fans (who have not always had the best reputation) were awarded in recent years for being the best supporters in Europe.
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No. pure and simple.
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seeing that they have already bought it they can't sell it off to another broadcaster, this is where it all falls down
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Nowhere in the ITC rules does it say that TV rights acquired by the BBC cannot be sold in whole or part to another broadcaster especially ITV or CH4
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How come the EBC (I mean BBC) can afford to pay for live coverage for the upcoming England world cup qualifying games and say that they couldn't afford the money to screen the upcoming Scotland world cup qualifying matches yet somehow manage to find ?200 million to regain live coverage of the Formula 1? It wouldn't be because of Lewis Hamilton by any chance that happens to be a Englishman?
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I thought I highlight this question again
I would really love to hear the answer to it
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I've had this heplful post removed so I've done as they've asked and removed any reference to..........anything which anybody may find offensive.
I'm not sure how sensitive everyone is but I don't intend to offend. After all, our main objective is to restore England to her rightful place as the ruler of the world.
The main reason I think that England have failed in recent tears is you've never managed to find a leader on the park as you had with Bobby Moore.
Once you find this elusive chap England can once more be great, but finding him is the problem.
I think the right man is someone with old-fashioned Englishness about him; a man who would tattoo his backside with Bobby Moore on the left and Winston Churchill on the right.
A British bulldog of a man, his sleeves rolled up, a pint of mild in one hand and a Browning revolver in the other as he pounds on to the field of play, a Union Jack attached to a backpack of some one hundred and fifty six pounds lashed with hessian straps, khaki shorts and proper football boots, not these pink-fairy slipperette ballet shoes with glitter on them like the last bloke wore.
No sir.
An old pair of Yorkshiremen's pit boots three sizes too small with cork studs nailed in by grateful London street-urchins for a penny a day thank you very much mister.
An inspirational ruddy faced colonel type with hair on his cheeks and thighs like a racehorse to match.
The sort who would play on with two broken legs, his arm in a sling and an eye patch like Nelson's (Gawd bless 'im) when the filthy Argie/Itie/Kraut bribed referee has sent off ten gallant English lads for trampling Sepp Blatter's groin to the tune of Rule Britannia as life ebbs away from him having been picked off by a hitman in the pay of the Portugese but you may mock, oh yes you may mock.
For regardless of what anyone says, he is an Englishman and an Englishman he remains.
Never in all the field of human conflict, has so much been written by so few and yet so many have swallowed it down whole without chewing it over first.
Whenever Englishmen gather together, be it around the maypole, on village greens or at old Ma O'Riley's house behind Scruttocks the Bakers in Macclesfield's notorious Roger Street, fingers will point and a phrase will be uttered.
This was their finest hour.
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I think the blogger may be mistaking European politeness for affection. Austria and Switzerland are particularly known for it - but it is also quite an easy thing to commiserate with the fan whose team aren't there.
Elsewhere, though, you can't help but note how everyone is saying this has been one of the best international tournaments in years. Safe from the stodgy play of the England team and the bellicose nature of its boorish fans, the competition has been able to simply flourish.
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I think the blogger may be mistaking European politeness for affection
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No, it's only in the UK that people believe everyone else hates english football
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I think it's been a great tournament so far. It's been much easier to watch without England there, as there's been an absence of really tense games for me.
It may have been better if they were there, as people (in England) would have been more excited and would be talking much more about Euro 2008, if they were there.
But England are a very boring and overrated team. As well as this, their fans have got a bad reputation, so they might not be missed too much in some ways.
There's been some great games and some great goals at the tournament so far and I don't think England could have added that much to the quality of the play. It's been fine without England.
Having said that, imagine what it would be like if England were never at another major tournament......it'd be weird. So, hopefully there won't be too many tournaments in the future without them.
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I must admit I am missing the pleasure of seeing England being knocked out on penalties in the quarter finals, as they are in every tournament (if they make it that far).
I agree with the comments England's absence has meant coverage has been of Euro 2008, not "England at Euro 2008", though as someone said there is still too much of "England not at Euro 2008" talk too.
I just know John Motson will come to the conclusion during the final that England would have won the damn thing - had they qualified!
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I agree with you this time, englandcomeon - as far as the other guy's comment! I think just because you live abroad doesn't mean you don't have the "right" to support England! I too was born and bred there, still hold citizenship, all my family still live there, and will always support them. It's the same with anyone who lives outside their country - they still maintain their roots. As I said earlier, with lots of people here in the US from other countries, they too still support their national team from "home." And anyway, judging by some of the posts here from the UK, maybe it's just as well. England's loyal supporters MOSTLY live abroad it seems....
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I can never remember the name of the English commentator who asked Pele if one of the biggest regrets of his footballing career was that he'd never played at the famous twin towers, Wembley.
Pele's reply?
"No."
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I'm watching the game in a pub in the city of Maastricht, the entire town seems to have decided that orange is the only color to be seen in.
The locals say the only way the Russians can win is if the game goes to penalties, however, most locals thinks the Dutch will win inside 90 minutes.
HUP HUP ORANGE !!
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We are not there because we are crap. Lets get over it and move on.
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I think you mean it would have been a shame had England qualified - shame on the nation again as the drunken beer bellied, tattoo covered yobs and louts went about their business of smashing up the bars and fighting anyone that got in their way, and shame in the second sense of the pathetic attempts to play football by the 11 losers wearing the England shirt on the pitch. The event is much better without your precious England fan - without those yobs it is a pleasant festival for everyone to enjoy, and also as a footballing spectacle on the pitch. Did you get paid for that rubbish you wrote?
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I dont usually take as much interest in the other matches when England are in a tournament so I must say Ive really enjoyed euro 2008 more than any other tournament, with the exception of euro 96.
The England team would not have got past the group stages had we qualified as the current group of players do not care enough. I cant see it changing for the forseeable future.
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I'm a not remotely patriotic Englishman, who doesn't even live in the UK anymore, and I certainly agree that English fans are very unlikely to be missed.
But I still would like to have seen the team there. With a decent manager, or even an adequate one like Sven, we would have qualified, and then, who knows? Just ask Denmark or Greece. Big names, even if they are overrated, like Rooney, Gerrard, Ferdinand, and Terry, would have brought more profile to the tournament and given it a focal point for English people to hang onto.
As it is, it's like the World Snooker Championships without Jimmy White, or a tennis Grand Slam without Murray or Henman. There's plenty to admire, but what is there to get really excited, nervous, and frantic about? For me it's the beer sweepstakes at my work - come on, Italy, for that reason - but it's a poor second to actually having your own country's team there.
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First of all, of course the foreign supporters voice sympathy with England's absence, when someone tells you their nationality, it takes a heartless man to say, "well I'm glad your team didn't qualify, the tournament is better off without." It's not quite like club teams which we chose, this would be insulting a man's team based on his unchangeable nationality.
Secondly, I don't think twice about who is missing from a tournament, the focus of all energy is usually the teams who are going to come between England and glory. SO, to have England not qualify has been refreshing, it has allowed for a more objective attitude when watching the games and less bias towards the underdogs, (again, in the usual faint hope the weaker teams succeed making England's progress more likely!) So it has been enjoyable to watch Holland's attack, Germany's midfield, Italy's luck and Turkey's sheer nerve, with no jangling anxiety.
But let's learn from our mistakes use this as motivation for 2010 eh?! (as in '94 - '96)
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I am for one I a glad England did not qualify. They are not good enough and I have never fallen for the blinded patriotism or delusion the English press try to feed us.
Whilst I was not with you , maybe alot of these other Europeans you met where just being polite.
A friend from Newcastle has be bleeting on about how England would have won the competition from what he has seen so far.
Fact is I keep telling him Engalnd DID NOT QUALIFY BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Hindsight is a wonderful thing....
As Slaven Bilic said England had 4 matches to help their bid to qualify in the latter stages and failed on each occasion. Such a team has no business at Euro2008 and I and millions are greatfull for that!!!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
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May I remind you Alan Shearer is the man to have scored the second highest number of goals in any Euro tournament i.e. 7 in a team that didn't win the trophy, so much for HYPE
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He's a bit better than Milan Baros then, indeed you are right a true giant of world football....I stand corrected.
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I don't understand all the comments about England not deserving to be there - the article's not saying anything like that.
I was in Austria for a week and my experiences completely mirror Paul Fletcher's. He could have been writing up transcripts of conversations I had with Austrians, Swedes, Germans, Hollanders, Greeks - actually, not the Greeks, they were all from North London and had the same attitude to England as the Scots.... but you get my drift.
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AMACCL times are changing. Rule Brittania is no more so enjoy the memories.
In terms of inventing the game..that is debatable. But its just shows the lack of inventiveness from England "if you have not being able to get to your DELUDED rightful place"
The brutal fact is that England just dont have GREAT PLAYERS ( in the EPL..maybe ) on the international stage..NO WAY!!!
But forget the current bunch of players the 5-10 year old boys is where England need to start. Get these boys practising with the ball for longer periods insted of playing non-stop.
If you have a 5 year old center-half trying to dribble in his own box and gets caught..Encourage him to keep playing that way then gradually get him into knowing when to dribble and blast the ball. No shouting and killing his confidence.
Finally how many times have England u-21 or u-16 competed on won major competitions.
You look countrues liek Nigeria, Spain, Brazil etc have boys winning these competitions and progressing...but the English young boys are found wanting.....lol
The future even with Capello looks BLEAK!!!
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I am English but live in Germany. To be honest I didn't notice England weren't there. It's a great tournament without them. It's about time English people stopped thinking England have a divine right to be there...no tears shed here...go Deutschland!!
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Nope --- not missed at all.
I'm sure the organizers and their commercial partners would have preferred to have Beckham et al astride their billboards, but as you rightly point out, England's not there because they're not good enough. As for the fans, ask people in the south of Spain what joy hoardes of Englishman bring with them...
Sadly, England's low-grade euro-phobia is reciprocated: you don't like them and they don't care much for you. Strange thing is, it's not strictly a continental divide: people generally like the Irish and the Scots...
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I am actually not sad that England aren't here. I'll probably change my mind in five minutes. Here are the reasons
1. we would have been denied the croats or the russians who have both been wonderful and you can believe it when people say they are better than England.
2. we would have been knocked out already. probably on penalties to Portugal or germany.
3. We would still have the excruciating McClaren as England boss for the world cup quals.
4. I am watching in the US and I really don't want the commentators to have yet another reason to mention David Beckham.
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Can we please block posts of people calling the Premier League the EPL? EPL should be like a swear word.
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Yes you are right. Football hooligans and rude, misbehaving yobs are always English. I mean, you don't have neds or schemies in Scotland - that's just a media lie. And they never go on holiday, and if they do - they are always polite and considerate.
I ask you. Its OK for England haters to lazily paint all England fans, and people, abroad as thugs. Whereas those of a celtic persuasion are mysteriously saint like and never misbehave or become violent in any way. I have actually been to Scotland and Wales many times and know that you have exactly the same violent social problems caused by anti-social idiots as the rest of the UK (and these idiots also go on holiday to the rest of europe). So please stop trying to kid yourselves, because your not fooling any of us.
Why does any sort of perspective and rationality go out of the window when it comes to nationalism?
And just to reiterate the point for the seventieth time on this board. No-one said England deserved to be at Euro 2008. They don't, they aren't. End of. Any speculation as to their probable progress (or not) is pointless.
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It is pure arrogance to say that the top international tournament in Europe is not the same without England.
Everybody wants their own country to be represented so any nation with no representation will feel that they are missing out.
This tournament has been great so far and watching England hoof the ball up to Crouch or some other Donkey to draw two matches and lose the third before leaving at the group stage will not bother me.
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The tournament is better without England.
For too long, the team has had the attitude "We're England, we can just turn up and win" and this arrogance has made them the pilloried team that they currently are.
Failing to qualify for this competition will hopefully act as the wake-up call that the team (and many fans, though not all) need.
But then again, it's highly doubtful - after all, it hasn't happened yet, despite being over 40 years since the team did anything...
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I am watching the games in Norway and even though I cannot understand the commentary I know that they are not continually going on about England. What annoyed me when I was in the UK near the start of the competition was the fact that during half time in one game we had a feature on Fabio Cappello and the England Team's spirit on the BBC. I complained to the BBC about this as I didn't think it was fair to allow England's manager a platform and not let the manager's of Wales, N. Ireland and Scotland have the same amount of air time. The response I got to that was, 'Although England aren't in the tournament we have to remember that some of our audience are interested in the team. It was also Fabio Capello's first interview with Gary Lineker and one of his first in English.'
The manager's of the other 'home' nations already speak English so why not give them a crack?
As for his point about some of the audience being 'interested in the team'. The fans of the other home nations are also interested in their team but likely accept the fact that they didn't qualify and are therefore content to wach the teams that were good enough to actually take part in the tournament. I wonder if the BBC consider doing a feature on some of the non-qualifiers at say Wimbledon, the British Gran Prix, The Open etc. Actually, yes they would......as long as they were English. England expects......to be involved in football at the very highest level - even though they were not good enough to qualify.
For real football fans the competition has been fantastic and whether England were there or not it really doesn't matter.
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Might as well say it before all the media do.
Russia outplayed Holland who stuffed Italy and France. This means that England are better than Holland, Italy and France cause it should have been them in place of Russia. I bet it goes something like that. It will definately be 'it should have been England' if Russia win the whole thing.
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I just wanted to comment on the misuse of the word "apologist" in the article.
The Free Online Dictionary's definition:
"A person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution."
Do these articles get edited before they are published? "All posts are reactively moderated." Perhaps this should include the articles!
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I wouldn't go as far as saying I'm glad England aren't there as i'd prefer to see them than the dismal France this year(truly awful) but if we're being honest they definitely don't deserve to be thaere anyway.
The tournament has been great so far. But Scotland need to be there. We havent been at a major tournament for ages and ages(and ages.............................) and we were very unlucky not to qualify out of a very tough group.
When the tartan army get to a major tournament again you will defo know about it. i dont think anyone will stay in Scotland!!!!
Don't rob my house
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385-Using that theory Scotland should have got to the final of the last World Cup.
Its funny no-one ever mentions the other home nations, it would be more enjoyable if they had all qualified so everyone could get behind their conutry. Howevhe fact is with no England ter the focus has been on the other teams rather than the papers showing shot by shot action of a training session or a interview with the coach driver.
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Tux789 - Scotland weren't at the last world cup
Berti Vogts wouldnt allow it
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Well i've read some tosh in my time-but Europe missing England-Don't kid yourselves-I'm in Munich at the moment-and the general consensus is English players are overpaid and underskilled-Can't say I disagree!
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Who cares whether England are there or not? This is the BBC, what about Scotland or Wales?
Actually, what I care about is the fact that the BBC (remember, the first B stands for British!!!) commentators (including a certain Alan Hansen who seems to have forgotten that he's actually Scottish!) never miss a trick when it comes to talking about England. Why is this a problem?
1) Because they didn't qualify for the tournament!
2) Because they don't mention Scotland and Wales as often. Have they forgotten that their programme is broadcast through Britain and that all they are succeeding in doing is alienating non-English viewers? Probably not - and I'll no doubt get slatted by English fans here. Before you do slate me though, think on one thing... I'm English!!!
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Who gives a monkeys? Calm down dear, it's only 42 years since you won anything, hardy har har!
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One question you have to ask what is up with the BBC and celtic managers???
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Nice sentiments, but not very well thought through. Italians, French, Germans, Russians, Spanish, Polish, Austrians, Czechs, Swiss - none of these could care less about England being there. People are generally selfish, all these fans could care about is how well their team does, not the farcical events surrounding an English national team failing to make it out of the group stage. Fans are generally genial with other fans, they will say they like this lot of fans or that lot of fans, it is sheer blind arrogance to think that our fans are somehow more appreciated than any others.
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yeah i agree. alan hansen is a ************
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I don't think you realise when people are just being nice. England are not popular.
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ddmcghee... that's being very unfair to ************s ;)
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RE: 381. At 9:39pm on 21 Jun 2008, bigstemarra wrote:
Yes you are right. Football hooligans and rude, misbehaving yobs are always English. I mean, you don't have neds or schemies in Scotland - that's just a media lie....
I ask you. Its OK for England haters to lazily paint all England fans, and people, abroad as thugs. Whereas those of a celtic persuasion are mysteriously saint like and never misbehave or become violent in any way. I have actually been to Scotland and Wales many times and know that you have exactly the same violent social problems caused by anti-social idiots as the rest of the UK (and these idiots also go on holiday to the rest of europe). So please stop trying to kid yourselves, because your not fooling any of us.
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England haters? Don't flatter your self into thinking we waste that much time on such thoughts. Simply put there seems to be an awful lot of responses here that feel England aren't missed at all, many from good honest English fans. I applaud you all.
I'm Welsh but live in England, I like the people here as much as in Wales. True, there is much anti-social behaviour in Wales and Scotland, and yes yobs do go on holiday and cause trouble. However not all yobs are football fans so your point there is by the by. Two points I really want to make (and one I just want to make a little) are;
1) There are more England supporting football yobs than Welsh / Scottish / Irish (not put together though). Maybe this is because we "haven't had to deal with once having won a major footballing tournament but struggling to getting to grips with never winning one since - like children throwing tantrums when not getting their own way", the wise words of an English colleague.
2) England fans do not add much to an atmosphere in anyones eyes other than their own.
3) The "God given right" to be in tournaments (not specifically mentioned but we can all read between the lines) seems to be a familiar thing. I know many people that prattle on about "The Great British Empire" and "We used to rule the world don't you know". It all strikes me as echoes of a nation living in the past and expecting things rather than contemplating earning them. It's just as well that there's enough of us that can overlook such self indulgent comments. Just as much of Europe does with a smirk.
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Also, I realise that i infact made three points not two. I got carried away.
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This article is a disgrace. In what way would England make this/ANY tournament better?(apart from in their own yes)
They dont deserve to be there. Not on reputation or merit.
Scotland and Northern Ireland deserve to be there more...since they came closer and played better When was the last time Scottish NATIONAL football fans were begrudged their place at an international tournament.
BASED on their football England are not missed.
Based on their fans England are not missed.
Vice versa on the latter at leas for the Tartan Army.
Can't we stop this pro-England bias?
It's just embarassing. No-one really cares England arent there. Let's face it - they were not going to win it
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dpmcalister
you are a man of my own heart
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LOL, just don't tell my wife ;)
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What a load of old nonsense! Do you think for a second if we were at the finals and any other team hadn't made it like italy, france, germany or holland that the english would give two hoots for even a second? Of course not! and this is how every other fan who is there now is also thinking. No one is pining for the english that's for sure! I was in Basel for the Holland v Italy game at the fanzone and was berated for being there and goaded about the awful behaviour and reputation of english fans and told directly by Dutch fans that they were glad we weren't there. God only knows who this journalist has been talking to as I encountered this reaction more than once and I certainly don't look like a typical "hooligan" I have a full head of hair, no tattoos, and built like a beanpole!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
What about the excitment Russia have brought to the tournament?
It wasn't mentioned once tonight in the commentary, that they are there through England's inadequacy/failure.
HEY,
What about the scots???
they would have done better than France and italy, if the italians hadn't cheated at hampden...........and they had qualified.
Who cares about England???
Only the BBC
OR lbc as we sayup here, where l is LONdoN.
C'MON THE germans.
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I used to be a big England fan, but those were the days of Terry Butcher, Peter Shilton, John Barnes, Peter Beardsly and Co. Back in the day when England sent men out to play. I lost interest in England when diamond ear ring wearing boys who do not know whether they are representing England or pausing for some celebrity magazine...
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
No names mentioned...
You continue to talk about England hating Celts. Hmmm, your comments are provocative and somehow paradoxically irrelvant.
I gamble that half of comments that you are perceiving as "England hating" are simply people airing their frustrations at the beebs (and ITV's) biased and nonsensical coverage of this and most footballing activities.
Not sure who made the point about 40 million England to 10 million others yadda yadda yadda but that's quite an "Us against them" way of explaining it. And on that point, for every 4 minutes of England focused coverage, there is not 1 minute of "other" focused coverage, if I'm wrong, then it doesn't make prime time.
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nick_the_leveller - Yes, the one Terry Butcher who was born in Singapore and played 77 times for England. The hardman defender from Ipswich Town who is the current assistant for Scotland.
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i gues i fall into that category of 'england hating celts'. but if its not really true
bigstemarra - could thr bitterness push its way thru any more???
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Despite the best efforts of the media and Scottish wind-up lovers to suggest otherwise, the English and their football team are not rabidly despised the world over. Incidents involving misbehaving minorities have never been unique to any one country, and no genuine football fan or genuine person would allow themselves to 'hate' people of particular nationalities because of them. Unfortunately, a few Scottish fans seem to tread a little close to the line where humorous rivalry becomes an ugly malice.
That said, I really don't think anyone is pining for England's presence in the competition. If the English are missed, it would be for the passion and colour of their supporters, rather than for the quality of their football, but there are plenty of other great teams with great fans that the absence of any one is quickly forgotten.
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England preobably would have been out by now if they were there but i think it has given the chance to show some potental that no body really expected to see ..I mean WOW what a tournament Russia Spain Italy and Germany Some of the teams have really made it hard to predict who is going to win it and I say well done to all the nations involve Yu have put on a world class performance that has kept us more than entertained
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This has been the best international tournament since 1994 World Cup in the USA. The reason been all the bandwagon overhyped media ridiculousness is not out in force all over the TV and newspaper columns in regards to england "ending those years of hurt" and the outlandish "golden generation" comments plus the fact there hasn't been much trouble outside the stadium in the fanzones makes apart from the Polish/German game the tournament on the whole has been hooligan free. Plus the football has been entertaining like back in 1994.
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bigstemarra, who said I was an England fan? I certainly didn't. I said I was English, but never mentioned my national allegiance! Of course, I'm presuming your final comment was aimed at me because I'm the only Englishman who's been honest enough to admit that the BBC's coverage of Euro 2008 is poor. Alan Hansen hasn't risen "above petty nationalism and bias based upon resentment and hatred", he's just forgotten that he's Scottish. You watch him when he talks about Scotland or Wales. Oh, that's right, he never does because the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation doesn't show coverage of Scottish or Welsh league matches on it's "premier" Match of the Day programme.
As for racists... I don't see any here. I see people who are annoyed at the BBC for, potential, racial discrimination, but no racists (not even your good self!)
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According to the so-called experts (journalists) England would have made it to the QF stages, Portugal and Holland were the likely finalists and Croatia would make the Semis.
hmmmmmm........
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I'm Irish and I think that it is a shame that England aren't at Euro 2008.
However, when I see the team-spirit, technical ability, confidence and management of the teams that are there, then it doesn't surprise me greatly. Good luck in the qualifiers for World Cup 2010 though!
On a separate point, it's my opinion that the coverage of these championships by the BBC has been absolutely wretched (sorry to be negative!). Have you guys lost the plot completely? video inserts about Freud? I've really enjoyed ITV's approach and dread having to switch over every second game!
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The only decent commentary on the BBC has been MON and perhaps WGS and Desailly.
Please please stop wasting our licence fees on messrs Motson, Lawrenson and Hansen.
Shearer could be better but probably needs to work alongside someone other than Hansen and Lawrenson. Why not bring Mark Bright into the studio?
PS Thank God Ian Wrong decided not to renew his contract with the BBC.
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i completely agree with GreenTeaBags. The coverage is utter garbage. for some reason they feel the need to fill so much time after a game with pure nonsense(and i'm not ONLY talking about alan hansens opinions). I mean at some points gary and the others seem at a loss for words because they've all been drivelling on so much. why not finish the game. interview players and for the extra hour show us a classic only fools and horses. It makes more sense than thir prattling!!
Seriously, the UK footy television coverage would be amazing if sky was free!!!!
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i dont think anyone really misses england that much apart from us english.
we got too much of a heightened sense of our own importance in this country and the rest of europe really doesnt care all to much about us. we act as if we have some own sort of unique role in the world but we really dont...
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People obviously want to see England for one reason: the footballers. The want to see the big names, Terry, Lamps, Rooney, etc.
If they wanted a country to qualify based off the fans they bring to the tournament host countries, I think you should be writing about the Scottish.
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raseyta
What are you trying to say? people want to see scotlands big names. I mean - Maloney, Whittaker, Boyd and Naismaith. I don't understand..........................................
Oh wait
You were right
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Well I must say some of the responses on here have been amazing - some people clearly haven't read the article - part of a pretty decent blog...
Let me say two things first, 1) it has thus far been a splendid tournament and 2) England did not deserve to qualify after such a shoddy and pathetic campaign under the clown McClaren.
I will though suggest that the author has a good point. Having attended and experienced the tournaments first hand in '96, '98, '00, '04 and '06 many foreign fans are genuinely interested in English football and rate some of our players. We haven't got a monopoly on over-ratted or over-paid players, just ask some French/Italian/Spanish fans the same thing - and they have the same gripes... Some of our players are very well know or popular although invariably due to what they've done for their clubs.
Certain nations are more interested than others, especially the Dutch, Swedes, Danes, Germans, Norweigians, Poles and Portuguese. It also isn't a case of "being polite" wearing your colours at all these competitions is simply an opening gambit, an ice-breaker and people get talking about football and when they realise you're English you're off and running. The Italians are by far the most stand-offish but my personal experience in Lens, and Paris, Liege, Arnhem, Brussels and Bruges, Porto, Lisbon, Coimbra and Guimares and in Gemrany, Berlin, Cologne, Stuttgart and Dortmund was invariably positive, life afirming, heart-warming.
England fans do still have a bit of a reputation from the 70's, 80's and sporadically the 90's, but a combination of banning orders and sophisticated policing means that from 2002 onwards watching England has been pleasurable, otherwise I simply wouldn't go. From the 80,000 in Lisbon in '04 to the 100,000 in Cologne in '06 the party atmosphere has been brilliant. There are still a noisy minority that can get too drunk and boorish but we haven't got a monopoly on that either - having seen various Swedes, Poles, Germans, Croats etc get a bit too excited, but those people on here tarring the 99.9% by the actions of a tiny minority, or the sins of twenty years ago are wrong. I suggest you actually attend a tournament before you spout such spiteful and inaccurate bile. You'll find the reality a sublime and thrilling experience.
As for the locals missing us, well it won't be a top priority, as somebody already pointed out most fans focus quite rightly on their own team, but certain teams or sets of fans do add to the occassion. the Swedes and Dutch for colour and vibrancy, the Italian and German teams and on a personal note having seen England vs Scotland in '96 and met plenty of Scots at France '98 I'd like to see them at a tournament, does that make me a Scotland fan? No, but it doesn't stop me saying they'd bring something unique to the party. For better or worse so do the English, one of the largest travelling supports in the world, many who attend neutral games at each tournament. We aren't all shaven-headed drunk thugs and anyone who suggests that is clearly keen to rely on outdated stereotypes rather than the all together more promising reality. Are we perfect/ No - no nation is. Many countries have much worse domestic hooligan problems than us (Italy, Netherlands, Germany, most of Eastern Europe etc) and our reputation can give the locals a bit of a worry but at Portugal in '04 and Germany '06 when the locals realised we didn't bite we all had a stupendous multi-national party. I'm just sad we missed out so pathetically on this one - at least it got rid of McClaren...
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Paul! mate what were you thinking when you wrote this?...just look at the comments...oh man...its embarrassing!
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Want to see an English team with passion? Watch the U21's when they PLAY for Stuart Pearce. No kidding-fact. Gives you hope, then they step up and the passion goes. Don't know why.
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Sorry to burst your bubble but I get the same reaction about Ireland.
People are just being polite. They don't mean it.
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Perhaps, the people are just being polite.
It's always cringe time when an interviewer asks a player from another nation: "what do you think of (name any england "star" e.g., Rooney).
What does so-snd-so england player matter to them?
What can they say but that he's a great player?
We are not that good. I can't see any england team retaining the ball as well as some of the lesser known lights at this tournament.
We may make it to the world cup.
Maybe we don't.
Stop living on past glory. Move on.
Good to see teamplay coming out on top (Turkey-Croatia, Russia-Holland).
It's been refreshing to see (sometimes still turning the commentary down) a tournament where it can be watched without overblown comments about England.
Or arrogance about "how many of them could get into our squad"...HELLO...england haven't got a "squad" in there and aren't good enough to be there.
Team play as opposed to name players has been one thing in this tournament - notice Germany-Portugal, Russia-Holland...
Intelligence in play, ability to retain the ball even under pressure, the rudimentary ABCs of the game are mastered, the movement off the ball...
Listening to local commentary it's no surprise we struggle...the commentators/local ex-players view of things is a possible window on our local coaching/thinking. And this thinking needs to improve.
Remember Gullit and a few others with refreshing commentary...and a few others...
Is there any way the local commentators can get hold of translation/tapes of other nation's coverage...perhaps, with some reflection, we could learn / something to help lift our commentary?
The Euro2008 expert predictions seemed based just on picking sides with big name players, picking teams with players the experts had heard of, picking players they've seen in the Premier League.
Sometimes the flowing, open football, the end-to-end stuff of the early rounds (strong team vs defensively weak fodder) (Holland-France) may lead the experts to quickly pick an eventual winner.
But the same team then comes up against less defensively weak teams. The flowing, swashbuckling then recedes - as they can't do the same. It doesn't mean they underperform - just that they meet better competition.
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I don’t think there is any doubt that England didn’t deserve to get to Euro 08, its record at not qualifying for major tournaments for the last nearly forty years speaks for itself – just not good enough. What I would like to say though is that I always enjoy Euro and World football competitions a lot more when England (and other home nations I suppose) isn’t playing – the coverage is much more representative and fair without the almost xenophobic attention given to England (but not other home nations I suppose) – we have to realise that ‘we’ aren’t the only country that the world in general wants to watch, there are other (many) nations that are technically (much) better than ours and organise themselves much better.
Perhaps if this aspect dawned on the powers that be, both at the FA and television companies, we might be able to come to terms with what we need to do to progress and become a truly good (if not great) football nation. Let’s face it: England only won the World Cup in 1966 because it played at ‘home’. If memory serves me correctly, England had only lost three previous ‘home’ matches to non-British countries in a hundred years prior to that – let’s face it, England was a damn good bet! England probably was the best national team in the world in 1966 – but only because it was playing in England.
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To all my Jock mates. I never understood all the English hating until I lived for a time in Glasgow and just took time out to watch the media coverage. As a passionate Englishman who will support my country till I die, it even embarassed me. They do the team no favours with their stupid expectations. I really don't feel we are as bad as other countries say we are but not as good as we ourselves think we are. The truth is somewhere in between-probably average as my old headmaster always wrote in my report. Followed by "could do better".
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It is indeed a shame that the English team are absent at Euro 2008. However, it is quite a relief that the English "fans" aren't causing havoc in Switzerland and Austria.
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Pathetic Article. Why would Europe mourn the absence of England? Your writer is deceiving himself.
It's been a fantastic tournament with great entertainment. England failed to qualify because they weren't good enough - no questions. The tournament is richer for their absence. Look at all the carping about how England should have been there instead of Russia before the tournament kicked off - no question that the best team made it now.
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I am not bothered if England never win another game. The only team that matters to me is Newcastle United. All England has done recently for me is injure our players. My loyalty is to my local team, not some national team thrown together every couple of months or so.
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To settle this once and for all why not get the BBC to show re-runs of the qualifying games, Russia vs England, England vs Croatia, etc? This could be done immediately after the live (1/4 final and semi final) games from Switzerland and Austria. This way you'll have no doubt why England isn't there.
Watch Croatia score while FOUR England players stand around the shooter....none of them prepared to challenge!
I could go on, but as an ex-Brit I am enjoying the Euros from Canada having lived here for 26 years. Do I miss the English not being there? Maybe just a tad but, as many posters have said, it saves us watching the drunken slobs embarrassing themselves and their country while thinking they're "macho cool".
BTW: Dump "God Save the Queen" at sporting events. Save it for the royal family stuff. Find something upbeat and pulsating for the players and fans to sing. GSTQ puts y'all to sleep.
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I suspect there is an element of wishful thinking on your part when it comes to the affection with which you believe the England team and its supporters are held across Europe.
Although I am not at Euro 2008, I have been at the last two World Cups and Euro 2004 so I have some experience of coming across English fans and it has not been pleasant, nor has it been restricted to a minority as your blog suggests.
In Stuttgart in 2006, I went to meet an English work colleague whom I would have regarded as a level-headed, educated type of guy. His mates were wearing tee-shirts reading something along the lines of ten German bombers in the sky and the RAF shot them down. And it was not just them, half the punters in the bar were wearing them.
Was this really a way to get to know the local? I would not have thought so. Nor was this an isolated incident. I was on several trains where English fans crowded the bar and sang this offensive song in between rudely demanding beers.
The contempt with which English people show for the country they are in is staggering. I am Irish but I would never dream of singing, say, IRA songs in England. Even if I supported their beliefs or tactics, I would recognise that it would be wholly offensive to sing such songs in England. Yet English fans - and, again, I would stress they were not a minority - thought it fine and proper to insult Germans at every turn.
That is why any tournament without the English is a far better experience for everyone.
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watchyourhouse
spot on
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Watchyourhouse,
Many of the reasons I baled from England (way back) are contained in your post.
The boorish, aggressive, arrogant, drunken, big-headed and pig-headed ways are too much for me to watch and to listen. (Do they truly know how offensive they are? And if so, do they care?)
Best to be 4500km away from "them".
The England soccer team missed at the Euros? Yes, I think so! The "Yobs"? Surely not!
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This post has been deleted by the moderator.
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Its a shame that England is not there in real life and really kicking the football about.
But when you listen to the commentators mentioning England every ten minutes for no reason at all, its a bit embarrassing, as they making out that we are better than the teams that qualified, which we a re not, thats why we are not there.
Do the commentators realise this.
Or do they make this remarks like "England won the world cup in 1966" (when I was a boy) just to upset the rest of the British Isles.
Come on give us a break and stop making us world class which we are not at present.
(which I wish we were).
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I for one don't miss England at all. The players are overpaid, under performing and don't stand up to any kind of comparison with professional footballers from the rest of Europe. Some of the England fans behave appallingly when they travel abroad and it is so refreshing not to have to see the troubles in every news broadcast or hear about the military style operations set up to stop England fans causing trouble. And the English WAG's are too tedious for words. Even better is the absence of the smug self satisfied bureaucrats from the FA who aren't there to set up a hotel base that would be better suited to Royalty.
How can we help England not qualify for the World Cup in 2010?
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Why is it every one gets tared with the same brush not every supporter is a trouble maker. Other countries have the same problem.
Maybe English footballer are over paid, where you make that commit from I do not know as every footballer is over paid, they should try working in a factory with managers who are not worthy of managing.
The Wags that go about, is the doing of the reporters of papaers that you read and take in.
The news reporter causes more trouble than really is. They can site religious riots and trouble between countries. They do that so they can report a story for you abd I to read.
No one ever reports how good English supporters behave, because they do not sale papers, and you would not want to read about it.
I expect that you walk about with an attitude problem, complaining about the English when you could help by comprising and helping the cause. it takes two to tango.
Lets enjoy the football with loyal supporters, not go back to the 80's with all the trouble.
There are more families go now to watch the great game, how they can afford to pay the prices, I do not know.
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Why is it every one gets tared with the same brush not every supporter is a trouble maker. Other countries have the same problem.
Maybe English footballer are over paid, where you make that commit from I do not know as every footballer is over paid, they should try working in a factory with managers who are not worthy of managing.
The Wags that go about, is the doing of the reporters of papers that you read and take in.
The news reporter causes more trouble than really is. They can site religious riots and trouble between countries. They do that so they can report a story for you and I to read.
No one ever reports how good English supporters behave, because they do not sale papers, and you would not want to read about it.
I expect that you walk about with an attitude problem, complaining about the English when you could help by comprising and helping the cause. it takes two to tango.
Lets enjoy the football with loyal supporters, not go back to the 80's with all the trouble.
There are more families go now to watch the great game, how they can afford to pay the prices, I do not know.
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I live in Australia, and take it from me that we couldn't care less that England are not in the Euros, and i bet that most of Europe is happy with the fact also, the only people that would be genuinely disappointed are some Englishmen, and European shop front glaziers! the English have such a deluded opinion about their importance in the world! they think that they invented football for Christs sake!! too many English supporters are drunken delinquents, and the English style of Football is.... well, not very inspiring, and boring, the only reason people watch is because they like to see England go down.
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We all missed the English futboll team. Beacham and Rooney charged English team could have played against French in the QF and against Dutch in the Semifinal and against Italy in the Final. Boring to the maxxxxx!!. Becham now attending the NBA games to remind Americans that he is a celebrity and he admires the tall guys of NBA. He usually sits behind Jack Nickholson.!!!! Hail the Queen. !!! Boring boring; The only exciting thing about the English futboll is the drunk hooligans.!!
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