- 17 Jun 08, 09:20 AM
Geneva
Quelle surprise, the French are getting paranoid! Their top sports paper, L'Equipe, is full of conspiracy theories that the Dutch will not exactly be busting a gut to beat Romania on Tuesday and that, as a consequence, both France and Italy will be out.
Well, whose fault is that? Frankly, I think the French were fortunate that Romania took such a negative approach when they met each other in Zurich.
When the Romanians came to play against Italy in the Letzigrund Stadium, they opened up and looked a good side. Had they attacked the French as they did Italy, they could well have beaten them.
What Romania didn't realise, and they are not alone, is just how far the French have fallen.
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Lilian Thuram, who looks every one of his 36 years, is surely intending to retire from the international fray after Euro 2008, but Raymond Domenech may have to bring that decision forward.
Claude Makelele, too, has found that age has left him looking ponderous in comparison to the darting Dutch.
Which means all of France is hoping Patrick Vieira can return from injury to invigorate their predictable approach play. However, Vieira is 32 and not match-fit. Surely Portsmouth's Diarra is worthy of some playing time?
The last remnants of that wonderful World Cup-winning side of 10 years ago are clinging on for dear life - and it's sad to see. Of course, there is still enough talent to hold off the inevitable for a game or two.
Thierry Henry's goal against the Dutch was the slightest and deftest of touches of a master at work while Franck Ribery can still be a big threat if he begins to show his Bayern Munich form.
What of the others? Well, insouciance is a word with a French root and Nicolas Anelka is taking it to extremes. In the language of football, it means playing like you couldn't give a monkey's.
As for Florent Malouda, he is not the first player to discover that a year at Chelsea may do wonders for the bank balance but nothing for your reputation.
Karim Benzema looked startled to be surrounded by such incompetence against Romania whilst Arsenal target Samir Nasri did not get enough time to make in impression.
Perhaps the most damning thing to say about the French squad is that Jean-Alain Boumsong is in it.
If Domenech is prepared to be bold, they may yet save themselves. If he can introduce some youth and energy, some joie de vivre; then an equally ageing Italian side might flounder.
Of course, Romania may make it all an irrelevance by beating the Dutch. But if they do, the French should praise Victor Piturca's side and not look for excuses in the Dutch line-up.
After all, even if Ruud Van Nistelrooy, Rafael Van der Vaart and Wesley Sneijder do not start, it's likely that Robin Van Persie, Arjen Robben and Klaas-Jan Huntelaar will. I'm not sure the French would fancy playing that Dutch team either.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Plus if Holland do play reserve side. Then thats good for France/Italy.
I mean Robben, Van Persie who came on, were the best players v France!
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I disagree with the author of this article.
I seem to remember many people jumping on the bandwagon in the 2006 world cup, saying how the french squad was "too old" and "past it" and look what happened. The oldest squad in the tournament reached the final, beating brazil and portugal on the way and only lost on penalties in the final itself.
People were also calling the australian cricket team "dad's army" before the last ashes series/world cup and guess what happened. Australia whitewashed england 5-0 and won the world cup.
Its evident that in todays world the older generation are quickly written off due to their age.
I know that france got battered by Holland but lets face it the scoreline flattered the dutch to say the least and the dutch are the form team of the tournament so far.
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I would love it if the French and Italians both went out at the group stages. It was fantastic to see the French's overinflated pomposity being roundly silenced by their group stage exit in the 2002 World Cup, and it would do the world great favours if Romania were to do the business and eliminate both of the World Cup finalists in one fell swoop. This has already been a tournament with drama unsurpassed by any in recent years, and to see two of football's most egotistical nations knocked out by a thoroughly unfancied side would be very satisfying indeed. I could easily see a repeat of the Portugal-Switzerland game tonight, with the Dutch quite reasonably settling for giving their fringe players a run out, allowing the Romanians a very real chance of causing an upset similar to Sunday night's.
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As a Frenchman I must say that I think that all the drama surrounding Holland fielding a weakened side is taking things a bit to far. Why? Well Van Persie will want to prove he is good enough to start in the latter stages of the competition and so will Robben so it will not be in their interests to fail against Romania, who I must say are a good team. People also seem to forget that Italy were thumped by Holland so I don't see why everyone is pointing a fingure at the French. The French played well against Holland but as usual lack that killer punch in front of goal and Holland are so far the best team in the tournament by far. If France do go out it will not be a big deal. We can't be in every final now can we....
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Thuram looked past it and Malouda seems to have forgotten how he was before jioning Chelsea. I think Italy will have too much for them and Holland be it a 2nd team should beat Romania or at least draw with them.
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If France get knocked out today they ain't got no one to blame but themselves. and diesel1984 2 years ago they had in their ranks a certain zinedine zidane HE took France to the final with masterclass performances against Spain and Brazil how they wish they had him now.
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What I can't understand is why the french team has not got Phillipe Mexes of Roma in there, Thuram has barely played for Barca what with Puyol and Milito usually the preferred partnership. Mexes has been one of Roma's no 1 performers in the past two seasons and should have definately been in with a shout.
Agree also with the Lassana Diarra point, he should be replacing Makelele now, and as for Patrick Viera, why on earth did they tell Flamini to go home, would have been better packing Paddy back off to Milan.
Then there is the wingers - Malouda is a joke never seen anyone look less interested..why is Jeremy Menez of Monaco not there, why is Benzema not starting every game - Le Sulk isn't worth the spot on the bench, let alone the squad.
Willy Sagnol and Eric Abidal both look average, Gael Clichy and Pascal Chimbonda would have served them better....Evra did a bit more the other night against the Dutch but nowhere near enough....
Sebastien Frey should be in goal too, why because he is playing in a better league for a better team and is a better shotstopper..
But whats really disappointing is that they do not look like they have tried at all
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You sound very negative about a French side who could do soo much better and if anything goes then their age should be an advantage not a hinderance for them.
Going off what i've seen from the french, they've set an attacking attitude but have failed to puncture the goal.
They've failed to connect but have had some chances fo scoring. The spped factor has failed them but I expect better from them if they are to at least try to beat the Italians.
I hope they do well and Henry scores as much as possible.
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The only thing better than seeing France and Italy go out would be the ignominy of making them take penalty shootout for 3rd and 4th place in the group.
So speaks a bitterly deflated conference-team supporting Englishman.
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Bezemma
Nasri
Ben Arfa
Menez
Briand
Diarra
Flamini
Clichy
Sagna
Dommench shouldve grown a pair and called up/played all of the above. France have some magnificent young players. Arguably the ebst in Europe. Yet Dommench decided to stick with the out of form/injured henry, vieira, makelele, anelka, thuram and abidal
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All this talk about France falling from their pedestal. Since 2000 (that's a whopping 8 years ago) they haven't been playing very good football. It came as a surprise to me that they actually made it into the final in 2006.
But - as with Italy this tournament, I do not agree with them being labelled as playing badly. All games in Group C, apart from France-Romania, have been the most entertaining this tournament and both France and Italy were playing decent football.
What I miss in all the commentary is the fact that both teams just were unable with the football tactics of Holland. Both France and Italy were outclassed by the Dutch. Where most of the other nations played according to their own principles, the Dutch played very unpredictably. I mean: Holland scoring from counter-attacks. How un-Dutch is that!
This doesn't mean that France or Italy are playing badly, on the contrary. They were just unfortunate to end up in the Group of Death. Had either of them ended up in a group with Spain ort Portugal, the outcome of their matches might just have been very different.
And it would be nice if that could be acknowledged by the so-called experts. In stead of saying Italy or France play badly, they should say Holland played surprisingly good football of a different class.
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coupet
sagna thuram gallas clichy
ribery diarra flamini nasri
henry benzema
that is the line up france should be playing
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I agree with Keenos2000. Why Diarra, Benzema and Nasri aren't regulars is beyond comprehension.
Malouda consistently relinquishes his responsibility to attack the right back, opting instead for the square ball. I see it as the wingers responsibility to run at the defence and provide crosses, which I am certain Nasri is more capable of doing.
Gomes instead of Benzema has to be the most idotic selection of the tournament. Benzema always looks capable of a moment of brilliance.
Ribery is doing his best to assume creative responsibility but he was alone against Holland.
Finally the biggest contributory factor to France's demise is no Zidane. One cannot underestimate the impact of losing one of the greatest players of all time from your team. He was France's talisman and the type of player that inspires the players around him to greater things.
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I don't really see what the problem is if Holland rest a number of players tonight, as all 23 squad members have been chosen on merit and deserve a chance to play, while Holland have earned the right to rest players by winning their first two games. If Romania progress against a weakened Dutch side at the expense of France and Italy, the French and Italians will crying foul play over Holland's decision, but i'm sure that if either Italy or France were in the same position as the Dutch, they'd be resting their bigger players ahead of the next round.
As for the performance of the French so far, they've not actually played that badly as they have looked fairly good in possession until they reach the final third of the pitch, where they've failed to create enough chances and never looked dangerous enough. If they still had Zidane or another top class creative player in the side i don't think they'd be in the postion they are now.
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The author of this article is right in some respect:
Malouda was rubbish, unfortunately it took RD a game and a half to take him off.
But I think he jumps to hasty conclusions in many other aspects:
Makelele has never been known for his pace, his job is to take the ball forward from the defence, and his passes are as accurate as ever.
Thuram did struggle with the pace of the Dutch, but against the Italians I think it is a mistake to take him off, his reading of the game is still awesome.
The was no conspiracy theory in l'equipe, but obviously they are doing their bit to put pressure on the Dutch so they play their game 100%. I think they will anyway, can't see their players deliberately try and play badly.
As for the remarks about the overinflated ego of the French, I'd like you to provide an example of a player who said or suggested that they would walk through the group. No one did. But as always when a team has seen recent success that England have only been dreaming of for 40 years, the media are quick to criticise, no matter how inaccurate this is.
If France lose, they will have been beaten by better teams, end of. No need to look for unfounded claims that "the French" are like this, or like that...
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The French team have looked awfull so far, they look like a team that has no spark or direction. I think a lot of this is down to team selection as they do have some good younger players. They remind me of England, a team that has been picked on names and reputations, not of skill and form.
Old players dont make a bad team and very poor team selection by the manager has to be looked at, also a number of players just dont look hungry.
It is time to bring in the likes of Nasri, Benzeman and Diarra. The team lacks pace and inspiration, Anelka, Malouda, Makelele should go, it is important that a team has a good balance between youth and experience and France simply does not have it.
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Well Steve, you seem to have divided opinion on this one.
Those who are rejoicing at the possible failure of France and Italy to qualify, and those excited by the possibility of a tournament's latter stages without them.
Substitute France/Italy for ManUtd/Chelsea, and then Romania for Portsmouth; and we have similar views as discussed during the FA Cup.
Sadly, there is every chance that Italy or France will get the result tonight, put their tournament back on track, beat Portugal in the q/f and beat Croatia in the s/f rematch.
Germany can now do the same in the other half of the draw, and ABRACADABRA, we end up with 2 of the usual suspects in the final.
What ever happened to the rule that teams in the same group could not meet again until the final??
Was this another casualty of the Joint-hosting decision??
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On the whole I agree with your article.
The France team lacks the zest provided by younger players. But I don't think this is the main problem.
Although Holland deserves their victory on Friday and despite the scoreline, the game was not out of reach of the French.
I don't like to rely on "what ifs" but France could have had a penalty when loosing 1-0 and Henry should have done better instead of sending his lob shot in row Z when one on one with Van der Sar (was he thinking he was playing Fifa Street Soccer on his Playstation or what???).
For me, the main problem is to know where goals are going to come from.
I did a bit of research (sad I know) to find on the outfield players picked for France on Friday to find out how many games they had played and how many goals they had scored over the last 10 years in official competitions for both club and country:
Sagnol: 408 games - 22 goals scored - 1 goal every 18.55 games
Gallas: 418 - 26 - 16.08
Thuram: 645 - 12 - 53.75
Evra: 267 - 6 - 44.50
Toulalan: 170 - 1 - 170.00
Makélélé: 610 - 16 - 38.13
Govou: 278 - 53 - 5.25
Ribery: 228 - 35 - 6.51
Malouda: 350 - 50 - 7.00
Henry: 511 - 254 - 2.01
So basically, Henry was the only player with a good scoring record on the pitch. And if consider that he has been on-off for much of the season then it gives you an idea of how difficult it was to get anything out of the game on Friday.
Add to the mix that neither Makélélé nor Toulalan know what it's like to score a goal and the fact that long range efforts are not the done thing in France and you find yourself with a pretty poor chance of scoring one goal, nevermind four!
And if then, your usually reliable defence starts to show cracks wider than the San Andrea fault then it is no suprise that you get hammered 4-1.
Having said that, it's not all over yet. There is still hope and if there is one thing this team has and requires for tonight's game, it is experience.
But here again, I have the feeling Domenech will fail to recognize this and will field a young, inexperienced team who will be overwhelmed by the pressure surrounding this game.
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"What Romania didn't realise, and they are not alone, is just how far the French have fallen."
This is a little over the top and somewhat wishful thinking!
France played fairly well against Holland and had them pinned for large parts.
If Romania had opened up well then France might have had opportunity to score.
The real reason fro France's current situation is Dominique. He chose a wrong team, leaving out many good young players, Clichy, Sagna. And those young players he picked ha has not shown much faith in them.
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France play the game the correct way. Not like the grass eating Italians who will do anything to win, like keeping ball in the corner flag area!
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The correct way?
Two holding midfielders who rarely venture forth in both games and 4-5-1 in the second game?
Of all the biggest nations, France have been most negative.
Italy's back line is as wobbly as the French so I would play Henry and Benzema up front, Ribery and Nasri in midfield with Diarra and Toulalan.
The omission of Mexes, Flamini and Sagna may cost France as these energetic players are exactly what they need instead of the aging Makelele, Thuram and Sagnol.
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At 10:32 am on 17 Jun 2008, londonnaeemd wrote:
and diesel1984 2 years ago they had in their ranks a certain zinedine zidane HE took France to the final with masterclass performances against Spain and Brazil how they wish they had him now.
And he was a youngster in the flush of his youth when he did this?
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I'd like to know which matches you've been watching, as Makelele was absolutely superb against Holland. He was, apart from Ribéry, by far the best France player on the pitch, although admittedly he should have been sent off. Hell, the guy even drove forward like a box-to-box midfielder, and proved frankly inspirational until Holland got the 4th goal.
Yes, France are quite old. But hell, so are Italy. So were AC Milan last year. It couldn't just be that they've not played very well? They were also unfortunate against the Dutch, though against Romania they were pretty dire.
I'm not particularly fond of France but it gets to me when bloggers and pundits are so eager to call for whitewash changes and write off a career following a couple of bad performances.
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The French are really poor this year, but no worse than they were in 2002 at the WC, where Zidane was still around. What saddens me more is the way that English commentators still manage to find a way to put the French down, out of spite, because the English national team is so absolutely abysmal. Carry on guys, distract from the English team. That way, you'll never win again!
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I've been mulling this over last night and this morning.... Would it not be wise for Holland to lose? They surely have to think about the latter stages and field the weakened side.
If Romania win, France AND Italy will be out, meaning they cannot meet Holland again in the semi if they get that far.
I don't see any reason for why Romania will not win tonight... it makes too much sense for Holland to lose and therefore Italy and France's encounter will be a pointless affair.
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I think Holland are perfectly within their rights to rest players against Romania tonight. They're already through as winners and they can keep their star players fresh and free from injury this way.
What's more it gives players who may not otherwise get an appearance a chance to impress at Euro 2008.
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The author of this article hasn't placed enough blame at the feet of Domenech in my opinion. I agree that Makelele and Thuram are past it but it was Domenech who begged them to come out of international retirement in 2004 and who continues to pick them to this day. How can he not identify the players in form, the players who will change the energy of this French side. Players such as Sagna, Flamini, Clichy, Ben Arfa, Mexes, Nasri, Benzema and Diarra.
My team for tonight would be:
Coupet
Sagnol
Gallas
Squillaci
Evra
Diarra
Nasri
Toulalan
Ribery
Benzema
Henry
However, the team should have been:
Coupet
Sagna
Gallas
Mexes
Evra/Clichy
Flamini
Diarra
Ribery
Ben Arfa
Benzema
Henry
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having watched italy and france very closely in the last 2 years as they narrowly pipped my nation Scotland to the euro finals (including watching france lose to us twice) both teams are a shadow of their former selves
to be honest, Id be quite happy to watch romania go thru because they fully deserve it
france are over rated, somethings happened in the last 2 years and both france and italy are not the same as they were in the world cup final
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I find the selection policy weird. As the author says Boumsong in the squad is damning. Why no Distin!
The French need the energy and drive of Diarra in their midfield to stand any chance of progressing.
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Agreed, the frecnh look past it, and they havent got a zidane to dig them out of a hole now.
Any conspiracy is in their heads because to be honest its the netherlands own business what team they play. Its france and Italy not winning that has got themsleves into this situation and thast just tough
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To all the people saying how great it'd be if the French or Italians got knocked out and that they don't deserve to make it through the group stages......at least they actually managed to get to the tournament! England are the joke of Europe we're the Newcastle of International football: biggest underachievers in the game!
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Holland are not merely within their rights to rest players; they have an obligation to do so. Every squad has younger, less experienced players, and this is the only real chance they will have to prove themseves over 90 minutes. Also, players like Van Nistlerooy, Van Bronckhorst and Sneijder, who have worked tirelessly in the last two games, have surely earned a rest.
Also, if France and Italy draw, doesn't that mean Romania qualify on goal difference as long as they lose by two goals or less? So Romania might just end up getting rewarded for their relatively negative tactics, even if they set up shop against the dutch, which might be the best way to play in any case against a team that has been mainly noted in this tournament for their speed and composure on the counter-attack.
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Couldn't agree more with some of the above posts - France have some expeptional young players..Right from the start, Domenech's selection has been shocking. Clichy has been voted best left back in the premiership and he hasn't been included in the french squad - this clearly shows that the squad selection is not based on the season's performance. If it was, then half the team selected wouldn't even make the team.
France should have opted for its young talented players:
Mandanda
Sagna
Gallas
Mexes
Clichy
Flamini
Diarra
Ribery
Ben Arfa
Benzema
Henry
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I think Italy shouldn't be in this position of needing results elsewhere to go our way and just like in 2004 the manager is to blame. He left at least 4 of our better players out in the first game. He's bottled it when it comes to picking his squad, leaving out several very good young players in favour of average and aging players like Panucci and Ambrosini. Why on earth was Montelivo not included? Italy have some excellent young players, Lippi would certainly have blooded a few of them in by now. What sort of fool leaves a player like De Rossi on the bench and plays Ambrosini instead?
The only positive is that I fancy us to beat France who seem to lack ideas in attack without Zidane's magic, and I'm not sure Romania will be good enough to get all 3 points against Holland, even with a weakened team. Still they showed that in defence they are very capable, and if they get a goal (always a possibility with Mutu) then they may well hang on.
If Romania win tonight, good luck to them.
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The 2 poor results of France clearly shows what a player Zinedine Zidane was..had France won the world cup 2 years ago, ZZ would have become the best ever footballer together with Pele.
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Please, please forward that link from L'equipe so I can see this conspiracy theory you are on about, as
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Summersiron,
In all fairness, Romania were not negative vs Italy, they went for it, had 16 shots to Italy's 10, and indeed had they won that game it would not exactly have been the worst footballing robbery ever.
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Totally agree, Domenech has made a mess of his selection, opting for Dad's army when there are so many dynamic young players bursting through.
It was depressing to see Abidal start the Romania match when Evra or Clichy would have offered so much more going forward. And frankly the one-paced nature of their midfield was a disgrace given Diarra was on the becnh and the Flamster didn't even make the squad - both guys who offer energy and drive.
To then bring on Anelka as sub against the Dutch took the biscuit. When you need something from nothing Anelka is not your man. Nasri is the only joker in the pack but didn't get a chance.
Domenech has made a mess of almost every call so far.
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Also about Italy, Cannavaro missing was a big loss for them, and as for France, Domenech has been heavily criticised by France fans for a while, maybe they got to the final despite him not because of him?
Finally a bit of context, they struggled to qualify for 2006, drew their first 3 home qualifiers 0-0 and had to bring back Thuram, Makelele, Zidane and others to make it.
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(sorry)
I have not read anything about this. The paper merely states that what result we need and what Romania have to do etc.
However not unlike the English to criticise the French or any of the other big teams they think they are as good at. Where as in reality England are worst than the weakest team in Euros bar the hosts (and they still played better than England in qualifying).
2 years ago everyone saying the same about France, too old, no hunger bla bla bla. What happened to Spain? Brazil? portugal? one word...France
So if we beat Italy and go through we will have Spain, no fear there.
There is no denying that our team is not the unbeatable team it was a few years ago, but its still a good team. Your article has as much quality as anything in the Sun.
Just like how the English are going on about Henry passed it. Top scorer at Barca playing on wings. compare him to etoo, ronladinho and messi.
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The French were pretty ordinary and very tedious in 2006 so none of this should come as a surprise. Getting to the final is no proof of being a particularly good team (Germany 2002 et al) and they owed a lot to Zidane and several slices of fortune. If you win the first two games, you earn the right to rest your players. Does anyone think the Italians or French would give a monkey's the other way round?
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With all this talk of Holland fielding a "weakened" team, people would do well to remember that Romania took four points off the Dutch in qualifying. A Romania win, even against a full strength team, is not beyond possibility.
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Manchurian21
They were surely not as bad as us though in 2006 and at least they made it to the tournament this time around.
Also, the heat in that tournament was very high, not many sides played fast and flowing football.
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the French are incredibly over rated. Without Zidane they have lost a huge amount of ability coupled with age I feel they and Domenech are doomed. 2 years on from what was a mediocre cup final the Italians haven't got any better and neither of these teams got to the world cup with much flair apart from Zidanes brilliance and stupidty in the closing stages.
Holland have been underated even by the BBC. I remember seeing an article saying Van Bastens Holland were not the same as the 88 side. In my opinion they are more complete. What this group of death has hidden in fact is how good Both Romainia and Holland are and how far both France and Italy have fallen. I think the Italians are less fatalistic than the french and will win through. I don't think the Dutch will loose a match all tournament. The missed Romanian penalty speaks volumes...They are fantastic on the ball but like Austria lack someone who knows how to put the ball in the net.
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Mr Pop,
Ok, yes, you're right. They did attack Italy a lot more than France. They still didn't commit as many players forward as they might have done when an opportunity to attack or counter-attack came along, and Mutu's goal (while brilliantly taken) came as the result of a shocking error by Zambrotta rather than Romania pressing forward. Furthermore, I have no complaints about the way Romania played in either game. They did what they needed to do (with a little help from the linesman v Italy) to earn a more-or-less deserved draw in both.
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France tedious in 2006???
are you for real? the way we hammered spain 3-1, and then brazil and protugal tideous?? the same protugal who knock you out for fun.
yes we owed a lot to Zidane, surprising that, just as astonishing as Germany relying on mattheus and beckenbauer, portugal on eusebio etc.
there is no conspiracy and it wasnt in the papers. False allegation by BBC to appear more knowledgable than they are.
PROVIDE THE LINK TO THIS THEN.
p.s lequipe has a smuch credibitlity as your tabloids, but still provide link.
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A lot of people are focusing on how awful Italy and France have been and fail to recognise that if Romania get through they would have got their tactics perfect. Who would have put money on them getting to the next stage at the start??
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The blame for the French finding themselves in a very tricky qualifying position can be laid fairly and squarely at the door of Domenech. It's not so much the playing personnel that are the problem - it's more about how he sets the team up to play. Why is it that with the French needing goals in the first two group games he never sacrificed the two holding midfield players? Toulalan is terrible at best, and Makelele is obviously well past his sell by date. If RD had replaced these two with some attack-minded alternatives (not Viera), then I suspect things might have been different. It looks to me like RD doesn't have a Plan B.
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This represents new football world where non-traditional teams are becoming stronger. Age DOES matter and the french and italians are too old. Without zidane, france will fail to qualify for tournaments in the future.
I think Asian and African teams are rising in technical ability and soon football will no longer be dominated by Europeans but countries like china and nigeria, etc will start reching semifinals of World Cups.
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people are saying holland shud not field a weak team. well when it comes down to it who wud holland rather be possible playing in the semi final.
romania or italy or france. also the french and italians have not been good enough at all and if holland dont take the advantage of gettin rid of italy and france now then they may live to regret it later on
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Vive Le Foot Anglais!!!!
Only one thing I have to recall here is that most of the teams in this Euro2008 with players playing in the PremierShip have made it clair... They dominate the tournament. Even some have been beaten by some others, I still believe that France squad - whose most Valuable Players play in the Premiership - still have its chance to reach the quarter final stage.
From the Goal keepers to the strikers via Midfielders who play in Premiership are successful in this Euro2008 tournament.
FRANCE STILL HAVE ITS CHANCE
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people are saying holland wud have to play badly deliberately for romania to win
lets not forget that in qualifying, romania took 4 points off the same dutch side that embarrassed italy n france. and also won the group ahead of holland. come on romania
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Basically, France will most likely go out because their manager is a total imbecile. I suppose they're a bit like England in this respect, only they actually have better players. God knows what the little moron was thinking with firstly his overall squad selection and then his team selection within that. I guess it was something he read in the stars. Muppet.
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The French team isn't the same without Zidane, The Italian defence is nowhere near as secure without Cannavaro and Nesta (why him and Donadoni couldn't sort things out is a mystery). Neither side looks worth a bet on current form.
I think the Dutch are within their rights to soft pedal on this one, whether they'd consider that worth their while given what Romania managed in the qualifiers against them measured against the comprehensive beatings handed out to Italy and France is another question altogether.
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It's very interestingly poised. What do people think about the moral issue that the Netherlands are in. They have the opportunity to knock France and Italy out and would kick themselves if they didn't and got beaten by them later in the competition. Are they within their rights to lower their level and let Romania win 1:0 as it benefits them in this competition? I think they are, as with any competition you have to think tactics and if winning a game hinders your progress later in the competition then you need to do what you hink is best tactically. Would they get a lot of stick and criticism if they did this or, as it doesn't break any rules, should they be allowed to make that decision? They are still risking the fact that Romania might beat them later in the competition??
What's your thoughts?
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I think the French have stopped doing what has made them so successful in the past...Giving youth a chance.
As an international team they are in the worst position because when you don't give playing time to your promising youth players, you don't win anything because your older ones are past it and when the younger players get old enough to get in the team they don't have the level of experience required for winning.
France's big stars were past it during the last world cup but freak results and a low standard of football even for an international tournament got them to the final.
They are so boring to watch now, almost as bad as England, a few big names thinking only they can play the killer ball, only they can win the game, even if it means wandering out of position and not helping the team.
It seems in more ways than one we are just a short distance from our Gallic friends.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/euro_2008/7445142.stm
About 4 minutes 10 into it.
Lack of Malouda bravery and Anelka standing on the edge of the box (I couldn't find a clip of it) completely sums up the French in this tournament for me.
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In response to theoch - in the 2002 WC Zidane got injured in a friendly just before the start - hence he missed their first 2 games (which they lost and then scraped a draw). Then when he came back for their last game he was still far from fit and they lost to the team that finished top of the group.
Hence impact of Zidane cannot be underestimated.
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agree with Al_lewis87. Domenech got his behind saved in the last WC by Zidane. alas, he now looks as competent as I always thought he was.
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France's demise this EC has been down to poor team / squad selection from Domenech, not lack of quality. Flamini is what Makelele was in his prime, where as Diarra is far more skillful than Toulalan. Sagna and Evra are excellent full backs, but aren't guarenteed a starting birth. Frey is far superior to the ordinary Coupet, and has endured a great season with Fiorentina.
It never ceases to amaze me how Malouda makes it in the French side. He's awful - Nasri or Ben Arfa should have taken his place. Gomis' place in the squad ahead of Trezeguet certainly hasn't been ratified, where as Benzema should get the nod over Le Sulk.
Meanwhile Italy would be a different outfit if the likes of Nesta, Cannavaro, Totti, Aquilani and Montolivo were involved.
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One could argue the motives as to why the dutch play their second string, although looking at the starting line-up I can't imagine any premier league team not wanting Klaas-Jan Huntelaar or Arjen Robben in their squad. There is also a psychological factor as to losing from the Romanians. If Holland gets thumped by 3 goals or more it doens't matter if you already qualified or not, the fact you lost by more than 2 goals has an impact. Also I believe it doesn't matter how you become European Champion, the only thing which is important is that you are European Champion (though credit for doing it in a fancy way are always nice). The French and the Italians should play the game of their lives, they owe it to their fans. It doesn't come down to thinking you're working hard and everyone has respect for you and the rest will follow. To be honoust; I'm not such an admirer of the French. I think they're overrated (or not as supreme as others think). They look modest around the other teams in Group C. People talking about the fact the french miss Zidane, i'd like to say; Look at Arsenal without Henry. They played a more total package of football (or wider) than before. Domenech had plenty of time to find a decent replcament and as a lot of bloggers already pointed out there's plenty of talent. The Italians are always a side to do the unexpected, thus coming to the conclusion that the WC-final 2 years ago was not about the teams that played the best of football, it all came down to other teams not being able to overlook the pedigree of these teams.
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I don't think France have the players to be honest. They need a playmaker and they haven't got one.
People mention Flamini, Diarra, Sagna, Clichy (who is injured) but none of them would change the situation. France are just learning to play without Zidane and that would be tough for any country.
They also need to get rid of Dominech who has run out of ideas. If they missed out it would be no great problem. Every team has their low points and they need to look at rebuilding from scratch again.
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I may be missing the point here, but if France and Italy are both so decrepit and poorly managed etc, surely it is in the Netherland's best interests (not 'Holland', which is like referring to the whole of the UK as 'England') to make sure that the greater threat (Romania) doesn't go through to the final eight ?
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coupe of people mentioned having diarra and flamini together in the middle of the park which i think is just as stupd as the french are doing now. Having two defensivey minded palyers such as flamini (played supporting role to cesc's attacking nature) and diarra who has also played a supporting role to muntari. So replacing toulalan and makalele with them is pointless because they play in the same style and toulalan is better than all the french t a holding role, what is needed is an attacking player to fill the whole ZZidane left to restore balance to the middle. Who could do it? Nasri, Bodmer or even Gourcuff from Ac milan for experience.
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coupet
sagna/ Clerc_Mexes_Gallas_ Evra/Clichy
Toulalan_Flamini
Nasri_Benzema _Ribery
( henry/Briand )
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Henry and Benzema up front
Nasri and Ribery partnership instead of Malouda
Mexes au lieu de Gallas and Clichy a.l.d Thuram
Flamini sweeper replacing Sagnol
3-1-4-2
ALLEZ LES BLEUS
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France lost to Swizerland and tied South Korea in WC 2006 without Zadine and not until they beat Togo in the last game to advance with Zadine in the game. Zadine brought them all the way to the final and after Zadine was ejected from the game, they lost the penalty shootout to Italy.
This time they basically used the same team as 2006 but without Zadine and they are 2 years older.
After they lost to Holland, some of their players, like Ribery and Coupet, said they miss Zadine. Seems like without Zadine, they don't know how to play.
To me, France is much worse than Italy. It is very hard to break down the champion team after they won the world cup 2 years ago but for France, they don't even know their problem from the last world cup. They have a pool of young players, like Flamini but they prefer to have old players in the team. Their last glory was 8 years ago.
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What the heck is a Zadine?
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Al team that dicards a player like Flamini who has had a brilliant season with Arsenal for players like Viera, Makelele, Boumsong and wait for this, Thuram, certainly planned well to fail.
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A team that dicards a player like Flamini who has had a brilliant season with Arsenal for players like Viera, Makelele, Boumsong and wait for this, Thuram, certainly planned well to fail.
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I heard it on the grapevine that Domenech is some kind of astrological nutcase and picks his team on the basis of their star sign.. Is this true?! It actually seems likely to me, why else wouldn't he play flamini, or even have clichy in the squad?! I'm not an Arsenal supporter, but I don't understand why these players aren't being considered. Philippe Mexes is a top quality player who can surely be trusted ahead of Thuram. So much talent being wasted.. Is it all down to the month they were born?!
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The French deserves to go out tonight. Without ZZ they are so ordinary and lack of idea. Their players are aging and their strikers are simply not good enough. Henry was "THE" king at Arsenal but I can't remember seeing him at the Nou Camp.
Let me remind you - the French were beaten home and away by the, arrr mighty Scotts. That tells the story.
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Does anyone know how long after pele left Brazil did they win the world cup? or how long before hungary without puskas or holland without cruyff got anywehere?
for me Zidane was the greatest of them all, his psychological effect on the team, best understood by the french is incomparable.
Yes France miss him, and for me the world of football does. I dont see any great number 10s in the same class as him.
anyway, he is gone, and many posts have pointed out that we do have apool of young talents, however it was the oldies that got us to the WC final amid all the laughs and jokes about the age, frequent from the football power that is England, and showed the young fancied spanish and fast pacey brazilianz and the skilled portugese who was still the master.
lets not foget in last ten years France have been the greatest most successful team in europe and joint top with brazil.
its hard to keep that success at same level. However this really is a generation change. after this tournamnet success or not, the likes of mexes, ben arfa, frey, sagna, bodmer, menez, benzema, diarra, toulalan will dominate the team and perhaps Europe again.
But every era ends at some stage, and tonight I hope it will last another ten days, but tonight that could be it for both teams.
Henry has still the passion for the shirt and only one who looks like scoring, he still has his place.
But tonight we will give it all, until the last minute I will believe, I will sweat, sing, shout in Blue White and Red
and whatever happens I will not condem thuram, makelele, or any of the olders that are responsible for our most brilliant era in football.
there always will be a younger fresher team that ends your dreams, we did it to so many, our time will come too.
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A team that discards a player like Flamini who has had a brilliant season with Arsenal for players like Viera, Makelele, Boumsong and wait for this, Thuram, certainly planned well to fail.
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HENRY WA STOP SCORER IN BARCELONA PLAYING ON WING,
HOW GOOD HAVE ETOO, MESSI OR RONALDINHO BEEN. MEDIA ARE NOT FACT TELLERS JUST OPINION. DO SOME REASERCH
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DIARRA IS BETTER THAN FLAMINI,
SAGAN INJURED.
I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND HOW MALOUDA AND BOUMSONG ARE AHEAD OF MEXES AND BEN ARFA
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"France lost to Swizerland and tied South Korea in WC 2006 without Zadine and not until they beat Togo in.."
Totaly wrong! Zidane played in the first 2,
France did not lose to switzerland. They drew against S-Korea and the Swiss WITH Zdane. They Beat Togo Without Zidane. Not that Togo are world beater, but get your facts straight.
It is also interesting that so many English
seem to be so eager to write off France. And lastly why do English make up things:
NO thre is no conspiricy theory in L'quipe.
And NO, niehter Ribery nor Coupet nor any one else said anything about missing Zidane.
It makes English feel better about themseleves to say French are not that good and it was only Zidane.
Zidane in 1998 was suspeded for 2 games in knock out rounds and was not much of a factor in semi finals.
I think all of the French bashing English will see red, because France will sneak in the next round and will take out the REAL overrated Spain and I doubt Holland's counter attacking will work the second time.
And once again French will be the elephaint in the room that all English pundidt will ignore when it comes to talk up favourites, as if France does not exist,. But as soon as they appear to get a an early boot,see the muted English press and pundits come out with their after the fact "Analsyis."
Lets face it deep inside every Europeran there was a sense of relief when Italy scored that PK to win the game. It will be a while for European to catch up with Americans to be truly prejudice free when it comes Sports.
I have seen "This type of Journalism and Opinion" in USA 20 years ago. You can fool yourself but I see through this...when it comes to France RACE will always blind the Europeans i theier view of the French team.
I hope FRance win it all, and I knwo it will hurt a lot of you and you know why.
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WHEN YOU WRITE ON THESE SITES YOU SHOULD GET USED TO MIS QUOTES
i have asked BBC's editor of this article to send the link of Lequipe where it says the claim the author makes, as I have not read them anywhere
and having lived here for ten years, hatred towards the french is a pass time for the english,
they love criticisng other teams, but i wonder what they think that in france, or italy where i have also lived no one talks about other nations more than one or two articles. here they analyse and criticise everything certain teams do. they focus on their own teams
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Jonuk1956 age has nothing to do with it.
I was talking about what a class act zidane was and at this moment france don't have a player that is in zidane's league who can carry them on his shoulders.
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If I was van Basten , I would put the weakest team to play Romania, and let Romania win, because I am sure they don't want Italy or France to go through.
Also, why do Holland want one of the strongest teams to go through while they have a good chance to win the tournament? It's just a common sense.
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diesil1984, i would usually agree that an ageing team should not counted out just because of their age, HOWEVER...
i'm not a manager with the experience of Domenech, however i know that you cannot field a back line with a combined age of 124 years against a team as fast as Holland, even if initially it was only van Nistelrooy up front. cause you can bet your bottom dollar that the french watched the holland italy game and knew that the Dutch would attack with pace, flair, and numbers. It was poor and quite frankly suicidal coaching from the French dugout.
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France deserve to be in this position for not picking Sagna and Clichy!
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The Dutch will play a reserve side changing 9 players from the starting 11 against France.
It's still not a bad side but I will be quite amazed if they manage a win against Romania a side which not only beat the Netherlands and drew against them during qualifying but also performed very well against Italy and France.
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For me what is most glaringly obvious with France is the lack of a Zidane in the team. Ribery is proving that he has the ability to create, but he doesnt demand the ball enough, doesnt create from enough areas of the pitch, and perhaps isn't quite as experienced. Also, he's not a genius, but that doesn't mean France can't be succesful anymore. However, the success of the French was built around Zidane, and hes only been out of the team for two years. What they need is a reshuffle of sorts. Perhaps politely tell Thuram and Makelele that they have served the team greatly over the years but is perhaps time to move on, and maybe give Diarra, Benzema, and the other potential young greats the time to shine. Its too late for this tournament, but maybe in the next World Cup France may yet again show what they are capable of.
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I agree whole heartedly with what you are saying. The French have looked distinctly average and out their depth in both games they have played so far, lacking style and verve something which normally goes hand in hand with French football and really only have themselves to blame.
However, you have to admit that Holland losing and knocking out the French and the Italians is a really convenient position to be in and could possibly have an impact on their game with Romania.
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If Holland lose to Romania, then the French and the Italians will be up in arms saying that Holland lost on purpose. The truth of the matter is that Holland have won the group, so they're going to rest some of their star players anyway. Romania I believe, won and drew their qualifying matches with Holland, so they have a great record against them anyway. Romania should have come away with a win against Italy the other day, and should have played with more purpose against France because they might have won that. France have been sluggish and Italy have been a little devoid of creativity in the final third, whereas Romania have shown some true class, certainly in the last game, and I believe deserve this. The problem is, if they do happen to win, it will only be marred by the inevitable conspiracy theorists..
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If France and Italy have been so poor while Romania have excelled, why would Holland be fearful of allowing them through over Romania? 3-1 and 4-1, not really teams I'd be scared of if I was Holland and therefore they should go to do their best against Romania
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I think Holland are more likely to fear both Italy and France more than Romania once they get to that point because you'd think that if either of those two teams make it there then they have probably rememebered how to win games. And when teams such as Italy and France know when to win games, then they can beat anyone. Italy on form would knock Holland out. I'm not so sure about Romania. Lack of experience is more likely to show in latter stages of such competions. Of course, there are exceptions..
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The french are old and it's time for the youngsters to come out and shine. However, it's not to say that the french are still rubbish. The italians have young and good players and now they find themselves in the same position as france. The french need to get themselves together and must realise that their superior team from the world cup has been long gone. As for the italians, well same thing really...
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Holland are so stupid, why not let Romania win and get rid of both Italy and France. I really hope they won't regret it. They have to be nasty to survive and win. They have got a great chance to win the tournament.
If Italy go through to the semi-final, Holland wil definitely regret it for the rest of their lives.
They've only got themselves to blame.
Stupid!!!
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"Holland are so stupid"
What are you talking about?
Try telling that to the players who want to make an impression and have a chance of playing in the latter stages.
Try telling that to the Dutch team as a whole who must by now be so buoyed by their seemingly invincibility and general good spirits from winning all the group games.
It doesn't matter what happens to Italy - from now on every game is played like it could be the last.
The confidence must be sky high at the moment and in a competition like this, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Hup Holland Hup.
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Romania's Mutu looked very lonely.
Others have said the Dutch reserves should have let Romania win but the Romanian side never showed an inclination that they actually wanted to win the match.
How is it possible a team can approach such a important match with such a negative and conservative attitude?
Even after they go 1-0 down.
Italy at least could make things interesting.
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In a dog eat dog world, you have to take the opportunity to get rid of your rivals while you can, you can't play nice guy in this competition. It's a competition, noone will sympathise Holland if they lose to Italy in the semi-final, hope Spain beat Italy in the next round. I am not saying Spain are easy to beat, but if you want to win, kill all your enemy, you don't have to do it yourself, but if someone can do it for you, let them.
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france new team should be:
frey
sagna mexes gallas clichy
ribery diarra flamini ben arfa
nasri benzema
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