This counts as a real row
The sun's shining even more brightly in Bournemouth today but the clouds are gathering over the Lib Dem conference.
Yesterday I reported that some Lib Dem policy initiatives had a tendency to unravel -- and that's been the case with a vengeance over the party's new plan for a levy on homes worth more than £1m.
This policy has caused so much internal resentment that it's even dented Vince the Cable's halo.
Yesterday he unveiled his new mansion tax, supposedly on millionaires' homes. This morning leading Lib Dems rounded on him in a private meeting, complaining that they hadn't been consulted.
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One MP complained the policy was "complete codswallop", another called it "suicidal" and a third said Mr Cable had been "seriously damaged" by not consulting them. "At the very least," one MP told Mr Cable "we deserved the courtesy to be informed first." By the normally placid standards of the Lib Dems this counts as a real row.
Last night Norman Lamb, the party's health spokesman, told us on air that he had not been in the loop as regards this policy.
This morning we learn that Julia Goldsworthy also didn't know about it, even though she's the communities and local government spokesperson -- and nominally in charge of local taxation.
There's real anger here about the way the policy was sprung on the conference -- and some don't even like the policy.
One consequence is that the unthinkable has happened: Vince the Cable is being criticised by the party faithful.
Yes, his halo really has slipped.
This blog is open for people to comment about the subject of Andrew's blog - but we reserve the right to delete entries which are excessively long or off-topic.
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~02~RS~)
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I am glad that the Lib Dems are getting the srcutiny they deserve. If they want to be taken seriously as a party then this kind of coverage will do them good. It will teach them to be more disciplined and think through their policies before going to the nation or grabbing a soundbite in the sunday papers.
Genuine three party politics could be good for the UK, but until the Lib Dems are serious about politics (e.g. 1 in 3 in a recent poll don't even know who Nick Clegg is!) then they will continue be a marginal force in defining the future of the UK.
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It smacked of an off the cuff policy when it was announced yesterday - everyone has a soft spot for the LibDems but this is exactly why people don't take them too seriously.
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Hmmm.
Load pistol.
Point at foot.
Open Fire!
I'm sure that wasnt meant to be Vinces intention.... what IS going on inside the minds of our political elite???
ps:
"This blog is open for people to comment about the subject of Andrew's blog - but we reserve the right to delete entries which are excessively long or off-topic."
(I think they mean you, Exxon...!) ;-)
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As lovely as Nicholas Parsons may be, and as much as I would like to see him protected from life's privations, his view of life in modern Britain is hardly indicative of anything other than his own comfortable position.
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Say what you like about Tony Blair [ and I frequently do..] but one did have an idea of what he stood for, and he basically told the party to row in behind him in a 'my way or the highway' style. Not popular in our non-Presidential parliamentary democracy, but at least you knew what he planned to do with power. Sometimes he didn't do it, and sometimes he went 'off-script' as with the war in Iraq.
But I have at present no idea what the OFFICIAL POLICY of the Lib Dems is on the Mansion Tax or on Student Tuition Fees. There is so much noise and to-ing and fro-ing that there is just a fog over Bournemouth and if Cornell Belcher is to be believed, I am not the only confused over what the Liberal Democrats are about.
And where are they on the 'left-right' political spectrum these days ? I'm afraid my view on them is coloured by the fact that when they had the opportunity for power in Wales they couldn't even decide on that, and had to have a conference to discuss the 'rainbow coalition' after which they couldn't agree, and the chance to influence Welsh affairs was lost.
They remind me of an engaged couple who spend a lot of time reading the Karma Sutra and discussing the Joy Of Sex, but never quite get around to getting married so that the relationship can be consummated. And I would have expected better from Nick 'Cleggover'...
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Even as a lapsed party member I'm watching this shambles of a conference with dismay.
Fortunately for them Gordon Brown is deflecting media attention from them by proving that it's one law for us, another for the Politburo over Baroness Scotland.
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And this is before the row between Ming and Evan on the Daily Politics !!
Someone needs to take a grip on the scruff of the neck of this party and very quickly or a total shambles is going to ensue. Listening to the Chris Huhne / Eric Pickles argy bargy this morning I'm surprised that even the normally placid and sensible Huhne can go off-piste during conference week.
These people don't have a clue about what British people want from their politicians.
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The Mansion Tax has all the appearance of policy made on the hoof.
The pity is that the original idea was to raise the income tax threshold to GBP 10,000 which is an excellent idea even if a bit moderate in my view. I bet that then someone suggested that the money this lost to the exchequer would have to be made up elsewhere. So the ran about looking for an idea and came up with this silly one.
Let us not allow the stupidity of the Mansion Tax deny the crying need to raise the threshold of income tax so that the lower paid obtain some respite from being ground down into giving up work. The income level at which people are subjected to income tax is quite obscene and needs to change as it actually penalises decent working people.
The conclusion to derive from this storm in a tea-cup is that one need not care to balance the books if you have a strong moral argument such as reducing the tax on work for the lower paid. If someone then comes out against your argument then you can easily wipe the floor with them as they will have been forced to take the moral low ground anyway.
Poor back office management in my view.
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Now I've just seen the Ed Davey interview and I'm even MORE confused...
If the Lib Dems tried to have a New Labour style 'pledge card' it would be the size of an A3 wipe-board and change daily...
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Andrew,
I think that your interviews today were just about spot on. Especially with regard to Baroness Scotland. Surely the politicians would not be thinking that I had better ask for her resignation because there are people out there who know a bit about me and my possible misbehaviour.
That is what is wrong I think with the political system at the moment. Use the word 'savage' and oh dear, very emotive language, tone it down.
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Good afternoon each & Andrew.
#5
TB.
What he stood for? What he planned?
Himself and his ego. Nothing more.
#6
Dismay.
You see what you are allowed to see and hear the arguements that the commentators wish you to hear.
Two more conferences to go.
#7
Do 'we' know what we want?
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The only politician with all the answers is rising young, all-singing, all-dancing Tory OLIVER TEMPLE SMITH. Check out his channel on Youtube. Apparently he’s a real Andrew Neil fan….
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I was shocked when I heard this proposed policy - have the Lib Dems taken leave of their senses - and coming from Vince of all people!
A wonderful gift for the Conservatives.
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don't be discouraged Vince, it's a damn good policy - makes me, for one, a little more likely to vote for you - key thing is not to be all apologetic about it like Clegg was being (you know, when he was interviewed?) ... tax on million pound 'owzes! - loud'n'proud
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I rather like the fact that they've done a bit of straight talking, albeit over a small tea cup
In fact, if the MSM actually report it with all the facts rather than the "angles" of division then it might actually serve to boost the profile of the Limp Dems
I am still conscious of the fact that for some people the Limp Dems offers the only salvation from the BNP, whilst at the same time registering the steel toe cap to Brown but at the same time not supporting the Tories
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As a second point
Can I ask if you can, for tomorrow, get some expert advice in for interpretation over the Baroness Scotland affair?
Any precedents set previously?
A general Laymans view of what data should have been collected, what should have been in the illegal's passport (although I now hear that she has married and is no longer an illegal), and how long a foreign passport must run to actually be able to get into the country?
Just some general points really for personnel officers everywhere
Then what documents need to be photocopied
Maybe by tomorrow it might be academic, as she may leave position, but the air is full of sounds reminiscent of the floor of the house and I'd just like facts from the BBC
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Just reading the summary of their policies as ever it is all very noble - but no sign of the "savage cuts" - it is just one happy trip down the yellow brick road.
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This guy went to my college; how embarassing. Worst speech of any kind I can remember in a long while. He is cursed with having quite good (but not superb) insight into why the crisis occurred (exculpating the West's politicians, however), knowing he will never have a chance to wield power, and not having the first clue what to do if he did. The tears of the Gods will be flowing now for the sufferings they will have to pour open him in his nemesis . Luckily we will be spared his class-hatred. Seemed such a nice ineffectual chap to start with.
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After yesterday's comment, befuddled, etc, even Vince find him going backwards. Can Labour or the Tories create their own goals.
Please M'am, I want a general election and I want it now.
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Salvator Brittania to Mr Bean in 24 hours.........
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Oh dear, and still they whinge.
".......the hedge fund and private equity sectors contributed around €9bn in tax revenues to the EU economy in 2008."
The pour souls are upset that anyone could dare think of putting in place regulations for them to adhere to. Further down, the article rather spoils things.
"An estimated 90pc of hedge funds are domiciled offshore, while the industry is also dominated by US players."
Does that mean that all this tax is being collected from UK investors declaring their offshore earnings ?
Gordon believed you - and look what happened to him. As he found, respect and credibility are hard earned and easily lost, and quoting statistics when you have neither, is wasted effort.
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Vince's policy isn't a bad idea actually, unless you own a million pound home. I'm surprised that so many Lib Dems seem to have them. Are they Tories in disguise...?!
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They're going suicidal. It also doesn't seem to fit with their anger at the tories of late. This policy was clearly designed to win over Labour supporters (tax rich etc.), but they have far more to loose in the south from the Tories. This just seals the deal for any middle-upper class families thinking of voting Lib-Dem. Not in a million years now! apart from the fact that the whole proposal is unworkable.
Just because none of your policies will ever become real, doesn't mean you can make them up on the back of a fag packet on the train ride down to the seaside.
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hi there Bobsy (@18) how's life? - listen, why must all proposals for higher tax on the wealthier sections of society be driven by "Class Hatred"? - I hear that a lot, but I don't really understand it - seems an odd thing to say - or is not all such proposals you're meaning, but rather just this particular one?
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Ref 3 Fabar Saunders
They might well mean me being off topic FS but most of my topics lead back to government malfeasance fraud etc,hence ,I don't they are any more off topic than say the Afghan War for example. The problem with this blog is that most, if not all people continues their topics every time Andrew starts a new topic.
I do my best??!!
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Policy made on the hoof without thought - remind you of someone?
Is Mr Cable starting to believe his own publicity?
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no. 22
Sorry its a non idea in respect of raising much needed tax revenue - it will raise next to nothing.
IMO just a class war ploy designed to attract Saga's (floating!!) vote
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I wonder what the Lib Dems would say about the Chad/Cameroon Pipeline. There now Faber Saunders, it is not off topic now??!!
http://www.morungexpress.com/right_column/33746.html
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28 Your commitment to this issue is commendable. Thank you for the link, I find it interesting in that it seems to show the flaws in international development payments. These should be designed to improve the lot of the masses in many third world countries.
Perhaps the Tories should re think their commitment to maintain/increase this area of spending and look to achieve a more efficient bang for our buck. I believe that both the LibDems and Labour have made similar commitments.
It also rather emphasises the fact that other countries will look after their own interests. No doubt China in particular does not care about the regime in charge in Chad so long as it has access to its resources
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Sorry if this is off topic - but Nick's blog seems to close for comments before I have chance to make one.
I personally don't care that Baroness Scotland remains in post - she will no doubt be replaced soon enough after the election. She has not got off totally scott free as she has ben fined and her embarrassment is pure comedy.
Why are the opposition parties (effort to get on topic) not making capital out of the fact that this issue shows up the Labour party yet again as being totally incapable of forming legislation that actually stands up in the real world.
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Ref 29Oldreactionary
Thank you for your kind words Oldreactionary and yes indeed there are some great failings by the DFID on these World Bank projects and you are correct these projects should be for benefit of the masses and poor people.Indeed the Torys have failed to win points for political gain as you stated in your 30 post. The Torys are on record at Hansard Answer with over 100 questions on the Chad Pipeline but have failed to follow up their doubts and fears, ditto for the PFI schools, Barroness Scotland,and no doubt a thousand other things. The Tory don't even know the meaning of SHADOW GOVERNMENT.
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XM @ 28
I wonder what the Lib Dems would say about the Chad/Cameroon Pipeline? There, not off topic now!!
I like that! ... that's cute
old R @ 27
yes, what's a poor Class Warrior to do when the LibDems start giving off these sort of "come on" vibes? - confused is me
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Ref 30 Oldreactionary
I don't consider your comments about the Shadow Government are off topic and another fine example I give you of the Tory Failures are the PFI School debacle down here in Exeter and nationwide,I don't doubt.
If what I say about the schools and PFI projects are correct, we need to ask where have the Tory's been,hence, they have been sleeping on the job at central government AND local government levels
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Details of the OFT bid rigging contractors and their fines. What did the Lib Dems and Torys know about this??
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
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Are PFI projects corrupt????!!!
http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=3112015
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It is reported that there is disquiet growing in the LibDem shadow cabinet about Cable's influence on Clegg and that they may be trying to forge a relationship like the Blair-Brown duopoly.
... Well they really should learn some lessons from that arrangement.
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exxon
I am rather surprised that the LibDems did not bring this up today:
amazing really
I wonder what they would have constructed out of it.
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This link will confirm Ed Balls is a comedian.He states ALL schools will be state of the art/energy efficient . What a load of old cobblers. There are 6 PFI schools down here in Exeter that are still using ASBESTOS products, have failed the relevant air test, freezing cold in the winter and a sauna in the summertime.
No wonder they won't cooperate with my FOI requests.
http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/pns/DisplayPN.cgi?pn_id=2008_0113
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9 lordBeddGelert
Now I've just seen the Ed Davey interview and I'm even MORE confused...
If the Lib Dems tried to have a New Labour style 'pledge card' it would be the size of an A3 wipe-board and change daily...
= = = = = =
A2 wipe-board would be more applicable.
Scottish Lib Dem leader Tavish Scottmakes three U-turns in one speech
The Scottish Liberal Democrats were yesterday accused having “more flip-flops than on a beach in Benidorm” after their leader allegedly made three policy U-turns in one speech.
The LibDems in Scotland are already in meltdown and this does not help.
Looks like a case of Beam me up Scotty.
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3 Fubar
Are you having a bad day or did you mean your ref to exxon in another way?
Exxons contributions remind us that there is a real life out there where people matter and are ignored, way above all the political pantomine.
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Ref 40XTunbridge
Thank you XT for the few kind words. I expect Fubar is tired of me banging the drum on the Chad Pipeline and PFI schools but then I would simply sugest he ignores my posts but these two issues do indeed show moral failures in the government AND the two other parties,whom, have a remit to SHADOW the government?
Ref 37Rollon2010.
I repeat, both the Libs and Tory have a remit to "SHADOW" the government and this bid rigging by ALL the main contractors is another example of the corrupt public sector.How many of the contractors fined by the OFT have got MP's and Lords sitting on their Board of Directors. A large % I would hazard to guess.
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Ref my 34.
Bid Rigging.
I will try another weblink, this time it is direct from the OFT and I imagine a few readers will enjoy browsing thru the OFT data on the naughty contractors fined yesterday by the OFT. What is amazing is, that the OFT inquiry was between 2000 and 2006, I wonder what they have all been doing since 06???!!!
Speaking of naughty contractors and if anyone is interested there are approx 200 naughty contractors kicked off the World Bank tender list for skullduggery,just go to the WB website and search under debared contractors list.
It's a shame that no one can tell the PM to crash the government car in a similar fashion to the RenaultF1 debacle??!!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Quote from the OFT bid rigging decision yesterday.
The OFT also found six instances where successful bidders had paid an agreed sum of money to the unsuccessful bidder (known as a 'compensation payment'). These payments of between £2,500 and £60,000 were facilitated by the raising of false invoices.
The infringements affected building projects across England worth in excess of £200 million including schools, universities hospitals, and numerous private projects from the construction of apartment blocks to housing refurbishments.
Unquote
Where were the company auditors whilst all this skullduggery was going on and this so called "compensation payment" is industrial fraud in any language. Who's policing the policman here.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
EXXONMOBIL2
I tend to agree with you that the Tories have been a weak opposition until quite recently. Their problems in 1997 were such that it took years for them to sort themselves out and to stop the infighting that paralized them. I do however think that they have got their act together now and whilst there are still differences of opinion, particularly Europe, they have united to fight Labour. Whilst they are rather short of detail in respect of policy, I do not believe that it is in their interests to show their hand at this stage.
If and when Labour are put into opposition I believe that they will be similarly hamstrung by division and infighting for years to come and again we will have no effective official opposition. I do have some hopes that the Tory selection process will throw up some more independently minded MPs who will oppose some of the potential excesses.
You will note that I have not mentioned the LibDems who have shown themselves to be equally divided and inefective this week.
In the absence of an official opposition it will be up to the likes of you and I to point out potential failings in policy. Given the public outrage at waste and unfairness in Government at present there will be a window of opportunity for fair minded people to have a real influence on Government policy and actions if they can find the right platform
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Ref 46 Olreactionary.
Unfortunately,neither the LibDems or the Tory's are a "credible shadow government" and it would appear this problem is at Central and Local Government Levels and I give you the PFI schools debacle here in Exeter and of course the Chad Pieline boondoogle and the recent bid rigging as three prime examples of their failures. I agree with you that we BLOGGERS might influence future thinking but I fear we are disadvantaged by MP's/Peers etc and a number of other PROMINENT people whom purport to be clean but are up to their necks in skullduggery/fraud. No names no packdrill.
What is nice about these blogs and this one in particular,is we have like minded people WITH morals and we can only do our bit.
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EMPLOYMENT TRIBUNAL UPDATE
Suffice to say my X employer,whom, I am seeking legal redress under the Whisleblower Act was in the Top Ten of the Bid Rigging??!! They are also one of the leading PFI contractors??!!
Don't you love it when a plan come together??!!They have already given false evidence to the ET by stating my claims were "I did not have reasonable belief in the truth or my disclosure were made in bad faith".
Any of you guys got any good press contacts as I might want to invite a few of them to my forthcoming ET.
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I would like the Lib Dems to do better to maybe rid us of the culture of picking who's the least worst option at election time. I think a third credible party could raise everyones's game although I find it difficult to tell what a credible party is after 40 years of all parties failing the public so spectacularly.
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Good Morning Andrew,
I have to admit that I was somewhat surprised last night when listening the Newsnight that apparently Brown, who nobody in England has elected, will tell the UN that due to an administrative he forgot to tell the British public that we are to reduce our trident fleet by one boat, yes I know I have referred to it as a boat and not a ship but I am picking up on the use of emotive language.
So why does Brown so love going abroad to give important speeches rather than to parliament. Surely parliament should be the first to know of this policy. Same as there must be a statement to parliament on the results of the Afghan elections, where so many of our boys died, same with Iraq, what is going on, this is the most disgraceful redundant parliament that there has ever been.
With regard to the bankers and the finances of the country I hear a lot of people saying that there must be reductions in back-office staff, let the front office do their job without all the resources being wasted. What I doi not hear about is the role of the middle office, which is where I spent a lot of my time. What I was able to bring to the table was knowledge of something called contingent liability. Basically if you buy something and are seen to be making a massive profit, there is the other side of the agreement, you may have to actually pay real money to acquire an asset. So the figures for the profit must be counterbalanced by the contingent liability. Your profit is not that it may seem. So i say in all this talk about back office and front office do not forget about the middle office the people who interface between the two, they are the real rulers, they are the equivalent of the sargeant major in the army, the interface between the soldier and the officer, they are the ones with the big stick.
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Cable is a light weight. He got a lot of reflected glory becuase of his "I told you so stance", but he just had the right message at the right time.
Lib Dems fiscal policies rarely stack up in reality. They are most often clarion calls for dissenters in other parties to cluster around, like moths around a flame.
They have no joined up thinking... abandon council tax and move to local income tax, but add a poll tax to homes anyway. Scrap tuition fees but don't becuase its too hard. Bring everyone under £10k ou of taxation, but means test allowances as well.....
Just drivel.
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Good morning each & Andrew.
#50 DHW
"It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
Why not ignore 'party' altogether?
Why not vote Independent at the upcoming election?
We, the electorate should take 'ownership' of the problems facing both our country and our democracy.
I say..."Vote for option 4 or more."
Why not discover or become the voice that more closely reflects your needs and the needs of your neighbours?
This has the distinct advantage of creating a Parliament where the the options are debated and not (as now) nodded through as if they were edicts from on high.
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Andrew'
the problem which I have with regard to the liberals and their stance over tuition fees is quite simply this. They say that as a matter of policy they want to scrap tuition fees. Agree. But they then go on to say that because of the Global Economic Crisis (GEC) they can't implement the policy, or is it won't, anyway whatever. So when the economy recovers then they will implement the scrapping of tuition fees, bit like Cash for Clunkers. However, we are told that there will always be cycles of GEC so when the next GEC comes along will they then implement tuition fees on the basis that there is an economic crisis.
I blame previous cohorts of students who were effectively bribed not to resist this whole rotten policy by being told that they will not have to pay tuition fees, it is the next lot. Shame, shame on them all, but most of all a socialist government with men and women who benefited from a free university education and who have now have closed the door to others.
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50. dhwilkinson wrote:
I think a third credible party could raise everyones's game although I find it difficult to tell what a credible party is after 40 years of all parties failing the public so spectacularly.
=
Hi dh... yeh I'm thinking that maybe we deserve a true fascist government/party because we're useless at democracy. If you think about all the grief we've put up with, the banks, MPs expenses scam, Afghanistan, etc... we roll over and have our tummies tickled. Spoon fed by media and thought police. The G20 protest was a picnic. So we can't complain if the Brown shirts go we are given the Blue rinse. Are the mellow Yellows the answer?
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#54 TAG
I read this morning that the Lib-Dems' manifesto will include proposals that have been voted for and not altered by statements from speakers.
The letter can be read here...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/sep/23/liberal-democrat-conference-tuition-fees
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World Statesman of the Year.
Guess who?
"The award was presented on behalf of the Appeal of Conscience Foundation - which campaigns for religious freedom and human rights -"
Now the problem is where to pin the medal on this, our emperors' new clothes?
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Andrew,
surely the time has come for the reimposition of the means test. I mean the real means testing which existed in the twenties and thirties. There must be a debate about this issue, I'm fed up with tax credits which would seem to be paid to every man and his dog. So, what do others think, I mean whilst they are inspecting the mansion, ie semi detached mock tudor thirties homes, they can see if the people who live their are living beyond their means.
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...
Politics, politics, politics...
How fotunate here, we be
to have that glory, the B B C
I may have mentioned how energising those who do not vote in General Elections could so easily topple those who think themselves elected as of 'right'.
I have found this link useful in discovering just where this shortfall in voting is and where such apple-carts could be overturned...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2005/flash_map/html/map05.stm
There IS much to play for.
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Andrew,
just listened to Liam Byrne on BBC News. He actually said 'Gordon Brown now in America helping President obama..' now please is this the same Obama who will not have a private meeting with Brown, primarily over the release of the convicted Libyan terrorist.
As for the economy can the government plase confirm that we are being set up to fail. There is an election next year, as if we didn't know, and all this talk of the recovery being fragile means that after the election the proverbial will hit the fan. This is a typical pre election boom, nothing but that. Give us an election before the Queens speech, I just can't believe it.
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Blamegame
Hi dh... yeh I'm thinking that maybe we deserve a true fascist government/party because we're useless at democracy. If you think about all the grief we've put up with, the banks, MPs expenses scam, Afghanistan, etc... we roll over and have our tummies tickled. Spoon fed by media and thought police. The G20 protest was a picnic. So we can't complain if the Brown shirts go we are given the Blue rinse. Are the mellow Yellows the answer?
We seem to have picked up the americans habit of seeing the word "Liberal" as a bad word. The Lib dems need some better people but will have difficulty attracting them when our democratic system works against them. I don't see anyones thoughts being policed on these comments pages.
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# 51
Yes TAG - Gordon is becoming delusional to an extent where we may need to seek a method to have him removed from power in a straight jacket.
He's apparently trying to portray our inability to afford Trident as his magnanimous nuclear disarmament effort.
Is reality so bad ? To be honest - yes, but to try such pathetic spinning on a world stage is juat a national shame, and Putin will probably fall backwards off his chair with his legs wriggling about at such whimsical stupidity.
Do I detect Lord Minky at work here ? The man who sees his country in ruins and would sell it as a Labour triumph in combatting global warming.
If you don't care about your own standing Gordon, please don't make a fool of the country. It seems that whenever there's a pie throwing contest, Gordon's always going to get an invite, because he's so willing to take them in the face.
The overwhelming stench of Nu Labour is that the truth is something that should never be allowed to stand in the way of spin. Their Cabinet Meetings should be renamed 'Marketing Forums' as nothing substantive changes, old policy is just 'sold' with an explanation that, may or may not, have anything to do with the truth.
Frankly - Ny Labour is just an old trick we all see through and Lord Minky's conjuring is laboured and boring. I doubt that they'll even be able to provide a credible opposition after the next election/
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61. dhwilkinson
Agree... nothing wrong with the term. The "bleeding heart" coupling used is usually reactionary mudslinging. Also agree the current system does them no favours. Although they appear to be doing themselves no favours either. Strategically a very difficult situation for them at the moment, they need to be bold and not pander to the disgruntled on either the left or right.
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61. dhwilkinson
ps to my 55, by useless at democracy I'm referring to the p*ss poor turnouts at the GEs. Abstaining is not a solution.
"I don't see anyones thoughts being policed on these comments pages."
Not on this page but over the road at NR's the 'cuts' are severe.
Some deserved but mostly uneccessary.
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25#
Hah, I understand mate, I've had a similar thing going on about SOCA on Nicks blog. Give 'em their dues though, the mods have indulged me and allowed me to get the point across, so fair play...
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24#
Ooooh, I dunno... but the repeated use of phrases containing "Vacuous poshboy," "Bullingdon", "Private Education", "Economic Contribution", "Camden Parking Supervisors being forced to accept a pay freeze" and "it started in America" might have something to do with it for a start....
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fubar @ 66
ah, I didn't hear any of that from Vince ... was it at some sort of conference fringe meeting for the In Crowd?
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Is Gordon really going to stand up at the United Nations just to reel off a list of things that the UK can no lobger afford due to his fiscal incompetence ?
What purpose does this serve ? - unless he wants the UK officially designated as a Third World nation requiring the financial support of the rest.
Gordon has reverted to childhood in wishing to announce everything to 'Mommy' - 'cause 'Mommies' are always impressed by anything their little darlings do, even disasters, through gritted teeth. It's rather a shame when you're trying to pass off being penniless as an act of intentional sacrifice, but in Gordon's case maybe it is.
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#68 Saga
I would say it is a good few years since Vince has been to a fringe meeting.
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Pity I'm late in commenting on Mr Cable's reasonable proposals to introduce a Wealth Tax on an asset, that for most people has hardly been Taxed because there is a lack of Capital Gain on main residences. It seems that the loopholes on main and second residences are also major, not just applying to MPs.
The proposal may not be popular with resident Liberal MPs or MPs in general, but I expect it to be highly popular with the vast majority of UK Voters who could never dream of obtaining such riches. Especially popular with Labour voters the Liberal Party target.
Most commentators do not want to address that somehow or other there is a need to move low paid people out of the regressive TAX/Poverty trap that GoBr made worse with his abolition of the 10p rate.
The proposal is hardly likely to fund all this step but it is a start.
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68#
Beautifully swerved, Saga - this time! :-)
Theres only so much space for you to swim though in that barrel.... and the punters are coming better armed these days.
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fs @ 72 ... well if you're going to get offended by me using inflammatory phrases such as "economic contribution" (!!) then, yes, I guess I'm pretty much sunk ...
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Both Andrew and others spend much of their time debating the economy and Brown's personal standing with the electorate and members of his party.
If however, you bother to read the endless comments, blogs etc that are out there you will find a society afflicted by a general air of malaise.
Over the past twelve years under this government we have had a progressive increase in tyranny, subjugation, suppression of dissenters, dehumanising, the list goes on and on. None of it spontaneous but a deliberate long term plan to break down the social and moral fabric of Britain.
The general public see this and hate it. Why is it not discussed?
Nulabs little Hitlers have been secreted everywhere, local authorities, the legal profession, the teaching profession and so on, added to which a new breed of malevolent snitch has infested our society.
It is time to air this and call them to account publicly.
ray edwards
on September 28, 2009
at 10:23 AM
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