A message to you, Rudy!
With our Parliament in recess I've skedadled to New York, where public debate is dominated by President Obama's health care reform plans -- with Britain's dear old National Health Service featuring prominently in the arguments used by those against the Obama reforms.
The NHS is regularly dismissed by US critics of reform as "socialised medicine". When you tell them there is all-party support for the NHS and that all mainstream right-of-centre parties in Britain and across continental Europe regard the concept of a health service provided collectively for everyone and free at the point of use as not particularly "socialist" -- just a feature of a civilised society on which there is broad consensus on left, right and centre -- they either don't believe you or think you're making it up.
But it is striking just how far apart America's Republicans (and anti-reform Blue Dog Democrats) are from, say, the British Conservatives, the French Gaullists and the German Christian Democrats on this issue.
The health care reform debate in America is very complicated -- and it is not my purpose to explain it today. Obama has abandoned the reform plan on which he campaigned and left it to Congress to come up with reforms he will find acceptable. Suffice to say that nobody is proposing a British-style National Health Service or even the sort of compulsory comprehensive insurance systems that exist in Europe.
The thrust of reform is to give most of the 47m Americans who do not have health insurance some cover, either through new, government-provided insurance or government-mandated employer insurance; and to give ordinary families with inadequate health insurance cover a better deal.
For America's Right, this is as near to "socialised" medicine as dammit and the slippery road to the NHS. And you ought to hear what they think of our health system: third world medicine, massive queuing, no choice of doctors or hospitals, antediluvian facilities. For those of us reared on the inadequacies of the NHS, you suddenly become quite defensive.
When former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani on CNN dismissed Britain's NHS with the claim that "nobody goes to Britain for healthcare, they all come here if they can" I found myself shouting at the screen: "Hold on, Rudy, it's not as bad as that."
Indeed, somebody might like to point out to him that London alone is a world-class medical centre to which patients flock from all over the world for state-of-the-art medical procedures. That the great medical university cities of Glasgow, Edinburgh and Manchester have world-class teaching hospitals and research (Dolly the sheep was not invented in Manhattan!). And that Britain is a world leader in many medical areas, including cancer research.
But enough patriotic outrage. Brits know that the NHS can be slow, frustrating, bureaucratic and that there is still too much delay and waiting, despite the improvements that the extra billions pumped into the NHS have brought in recent years. But Americans might like to ponder that it is better to be in a queue for health care than not qualify for any at all -- which is the plight of those 47m Americans who have no health insurance.
Nor are the problems confined to them. Ordinary Americans with health insurance are finding that their insurance doesn't cover all the costs of their care -- 25m are deemed "under-insured" -- and are having to stump up for some of the cost of their treatment. Even those who think they are fully insured are having to dip into their own pockets to meet costa (payments called "deductibles").
As somebody who has benefited from health care on both sides of the Atlantic I'd have to say that US health care at its best is probably the best in the world. But often that "best" is not available to ordinary families -- and not at all to those under-insured or without insurance. For the Brits, there is something comforting and reassuring that, if you are struck down by catastrophic illness or in need of expensive operations, being able to afford your treatment will not be an issue.
Of course the British and American health systems are not as far apart as some make out. Britain has a flourishing private health care system -- something the US critics never mention when they talk about the danger of a state monopoly of health care -- which mainly works in harmony with the NHS.
And America already has plenty of socialised medicine in the form of Medicare (for the old) and Medicaid (for the poor), taxpayer-funded schemes which cost 4% of America's GDP and, in absolute terms, means the US already spends many, many billions more on "socialised" health care than the NHS.
Indeed the incredible cost of US health care is breath-taking, whether you're a reformer or anti-reformist. The US spent some $2.2 trillion (£1.34 trillion) on healthcare in 2007. It is a mind-boggling number which amounts to over 16% of US GDP. That is nearly twice the average spent by other rich nations with advanced health systems -- yet you have to wonder if this is value for money when, by most measures, the US is a less healthy nation than other rich countries, on everything from infant mortality to longevity.
The Brits often think their NHS is bureaucratic, wasteful and costly; they may even be right, though it is still one of the country's most valued institutions by voters of all persuasions. But compared with America's, you could be forgiven for concluding that the NHS cheap and efficient. Take that Rudy!
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~03~RS~)
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Andrew
I am certainly in favour of our Health Service as being free at the point of use and agree with the Tories that funding should be ring fenced.
It is however important that we have a rethink as to how we spend the money allocated to this service. I do not profess to be an expert on health funding but this layman is of the opinion that too much is spent on admin and too little on care.
I know that the tax take from tobacco products is supposed to be earmarked for health, however I would like to see more transparency on this. Similarly, I would like to see the entire alcohol tax take earmarked for the NHS and whilst needing some thought, a new tax on unhealthy food could be initiated. Whilst this would not cover the whole cost by any means it would at least mean that some of us who rely on the service and could perhaps do something about it would be paying some of the extra costs. Who knows if the taxes were punitive enough, we might improve our collective health and reduce the strain on the NHS
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Good afternoon each & Andrew.
I wonder what the cost is or could become of sharing your day with people that MUST hold back from visiting a doctor?
I have read that there is a bit of a TB (no not him) problem in DC. I know that the average Joe in the US is more than happy to self medicate with antibiotics.
"A hard rain's gonna fall..."
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A US friend accepted a post as houseman at a local hospital while his wife took a higher degree at an English university.
On her graduation, he accepted a post as professor of urology at a hospital in a major American city.All new patients on entry to his department have to undergo a standard test costing $450 US.He told me the test is clinically justified in just 3% of cases.
His summary of his NHS experience: Nurses stood when he entered a ward; and treatment was never offered unless there were medical reasons.
Bryher
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yes, interesting topic ... especially coming hard on the heels of our debate as to whether the private opt out in education (which I finally managed to reply to @ 346 prior blog) is a good or bad thing
health's a bit different though (isn't it?) for the following reasons:
(1) the "demand" is both massive and limitless
(2) private health care doesn't propagate inequality through the generations (like private schooling does)
(3) the NHS has had a veritable ocean of cash thrown at it in recent years, and has managed to waste an awful lot of it
and so, strangely enough, the Clear Thinking Progressive view on Health is that the NHS should be cut back to offer just good quality basics, with everything else private (via some sort of insurance product) - don't like saying stuff like this, but I fear that a 100 pc free to all Health Service, offering world class remedies for everything which people want remedies for, is not (sadly) affordable - or rather it is ... if we sacrifice just about everything else ... but I don't want to do that
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Sagamix:
Good quality basics in medical care! Who would decide when knowledge and clinical practice are constantly improving? I can see good quality basics as the slogan of a reactionary government trying to reduce people`s expectations of the NHS,but I don`t suppose that is what you mean.
One of the consequences of economic crisis is that it reduces expectations.It happened in the thirties and again in the eighties.This is the soil in which reactionary attitudes flourish, and it is no accident that the BNP and their covert supporters are now more prominent.
All the best.
Bryher
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bryher
well hello there! - I reckon you're the sort of person I'd normally be on side with, aren't you? - it's just that I do think the NHS (because of its sacred cow status) has become a little bloated - too much money thrown at it, overstaffed, inefficient ... all that grumpy, reactionary type stuff ... which in this case I suspect is correct - just saying it needs to be reined in a bit, that's all
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Unfortunately too much of the NHS budget has been squandered on the renumeration at the top end rather than patient care.
Whilst I have experienced private care, which was all very superficial albeit very clean, I do object to doctors doing both private and NHS work, thereby manipulating waiting lists to their own advantage.
The private sector has no emergency services or interest in the infirm so it is essential that there is a focussed core NHS service - we will all differ in what we think can be sacrificed to achieve this.
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Well howdy Andrew,
now that you are in the wonderful US of A I feel that I can temporarily abandon my holiday to say that no matter what we or the Americans think of our British NHS it would seem that the Americans definitely treat their injured soldiers a darn sight better than we do.
It would appear to me that Obama is setting the agenda and trying to divert Americans away from the disastrous policy in Afghanistan. Look at the losses of our soldiers and you will see that the Americans are suffering just as badly, and in their case they have also had one of their soldiers captured and shown on television.
There is also the shocking situation over the banks being baled out and then somehow managing to post massive profits, and again nothing seems to have happened over pay and bonuses. It is no surprise that the Americans are getting just as angry with their politicians as we are over here.
How much longer can this continue before something happens. Over here we had Robin Hood, robbing the rich to give money to the poor. Well I think that many Americans are now looking again at Bonnie and Clyde and Dillinger, and thinking that they were not bank robbers, but actually working class heroes and revolutionaries. I just can't wait for Brown to tell us how Swine Flu has led to labour losing in Norwich. The holiday can actually wait a couple of days, the weather is atrocious.
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Andrew, or when you are in America should it be Andy,
do you think that whilst in the great country, the one that has given us Guantanamo Bay, extra-ordinary rendition, enhanced interrogation techniques, and as has just been reported, the country which can't capture Bin Laden but can kill his son using a drone, can you find the time to ask the President if he would like to release all of the following documents:
Actual long-form birth certificate (NOT an easily-forged electronic copy of a short-form document that is not even officially accepted in Hawaii)
Passport files
University of Chicago Law School scholarly articles
Harvard Law Review articles
Harvard Law School records
Columbia University records
Columbia University senior thesis, "Soviet Nuclear Disarmament"
Occidental College records, including financial aid that he may have received
Punahou School records, where Mr. Obama attended from the fifth grade until he finished high school
Noelani Elementary School records, where Barack Obama attended kindergarten (according to the Hawaii Department of Education, students must submit a birth certificate to register -- but parents may bring a passport or student visa if the child is from a foreign country)
Complete files and schedules of his years as an Illinois state senator from 1997 to 2004
Obama's client list from during his time in private practice with the Chicago law firm of Davis, Miner, Barnhill and Gallard
Illinois State Bar Association records
Baptism records
Obama/Dunham marriage license
Obama/Dunham divorce documents
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license
Soetero/Dunham Adoption records
The reason why it is important to view these records is because many people consider that Obama does not meet the criteria for being President of America. especially considering that he seems to be continuing with the failed policy in Afghanistan by committing extra soldiers to a surge which will fail and he will have to abandon the army to its fate the closer he gets to re-election.
As for medi-care, why should people who have not contributed benefit from the payments of people who have scrimped and saved all their lives, and now find that they might just as well been like the masses who just want to benefit but not contribute. Try Game Theory with freeloaders.
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Our Swine Flu epidemic is very confusing and perplexing: Could it all be an experiment in population control gone wrong (or right?) Look at this, it could well be true:
http://www.picassodreams.com/picasso_dreams/2009/04/swine-flu-population-control-and-staying-healthy.html
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Good morning each & Andrew.
(well done TAG, I tried but did not think of 'howdy')
#9 That final paragraph.
Where oh where to begin?
Ah! yes.
"It's the economy stupid!"
One scrimps and saves; what one scrimps and saves is invested here and there. (markets can go down as well as up)
Monies are invested where growth is expected or seen...Where OTHER people SPEND!
The assets one aquires through such 'care' are ONLY worth what OTHERS will pay for them, or can afford to pay.
As with medi-care so with "The War Of The Worlds"
One can muster much power to achieve one's own ends only to be brought low by some microbe or other.
One cannot be free while another is in chains.
One cannot truely enjoy success where that success relies upon the suffering of others either.
Can anyone say that they have what they have without the contributions of others?
I'll end with this...
"They also fight who stand and wait."
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Good Evening Andrew,
you are behind us over there I believe so you will wake up to the results of the Norwich bye (bye Gordon) election.
Let me say that I hope that you are able to catch up with the Today programme this morning because the final item was most interesting. Apparently a retired soldier, formerly something to do with 3 Para by the name of Tootal, has written a book and had it published with regard to operations on Afghanistan.
Now the gist of what he was saying is that the soldiers in Afghanistan are fantastic, and that they are doing a great job, and that they understand their mission, that it is about our security. So he is attempting to justify the continued occupation of Afghanistan. Now remember please that we have actually been in Afghnaistan since 2001, yes all those years ago. So what have our brave soldiers been doing since then, when I understand we should have been training the Afghan army so that they can do their own protection. Why, they invaded and occupied Iraq. A disastrous period, which Blair got us in to and Brown funded.
Anybody who collaborates with the occupying forces in Afghanistan will be executed as soon as their protectors (us) leave so we will be there well forever actually on that basis. Now then after WWI Germany became a failed state, everything however had been getting better until the depression and Hitler. What was the justification for Hitler, the injustice of the Treaty of Versaille, and he was able to justify all of his actions on the flaws in that Treaty. Keynes had even written a book 'How to pay for the war' which Brown should read because we can't afford the war in Afghanistan. We can't afford to waste money training the Afghan soldiers and police, we can't afford to lose the equipment, but Brown can afford to lose the soldiers because they are expendable, a few words that is all it costs Brown.
Now I don't wish that this should happen but consider what will happen if Brown, or Cameron should lose a child to Swine Flu, oh then there will be action all right, they don't really care, the politicians, not until it effects one of their own. Brown should remember that when he talks about the bravery of our soldiers they are not his sons being blown to bits, the same with our use of drones, these are innocent women and children who are dying, they may be related to war lords but they are not the guilty ones.
Brown, and now Obama have the blood of innocents on their hands. Blair was guilty, Bush was guilty, now Obama is guilty, as is Brown, and these men go around the world with their meetings and conferences, and shake the hands and laugh with Berlosconi, the man who the Queen correctly said exactly what many of us think, yet he is favoured by our politcians, disgraceful.
President Obama is in trouble already, the depression will get worse, that even in the thirties a lot of people did very well out of the financial crash. Apparently at some time in the past Harding was president and Hoover was, well Herbert Hoover. So Harding asked Hoover 'if you knew of a great scandal in our administration, would you for the good of the country and the party expose it publicly or would you bury it?' Hoover replied 'publish it and at least get credit for integrity on your side'.
Now then can I give advice to Gordon Brown, you are caught in a trap, I think that you would chose a good day day to bury bad news, you dare not let the truth come out. I sincerely hope that as you come to the end of your life you are haunted by what you have done, the countless thousands whose blood is on your hands. Enjoy your holiday with your family Brown, there are families throughout the world who will have no holidays, who will be grieving for their loved ones. It is the war Brown, the bloody war, and don't you ever forget it. We should never have gone into Iraq, it was not right then and it is not right now to be in Afghanistan.
Tootal says that soldiers now understand what it is to fight for Queen and country. The soldiers follow orders, only trouble is that in Iraq the orders were illegal, it was an illegal war, end our occupation, bring the troops out, and let the Afghans sort out their problems themselves. Oh that's right they would all seek asylum in this country, no wonder we have to keep killing them over there.
Finally isn't it weird how these former soldiers are able to bring out books whereas when a former soldier spoke at meetings against the Iraq war and the Americans he is silenced by court injunctions. The truth is out there.
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Sagamix.
NHS: `A little bloated...overstaffed,inefficient..`
Depends on your standard of comparison.It delivers a better service for the majority of people than the US health-care system at about half the cost.47 million US citizens are below the net without access to health care,not even good quality basics.For insured members of the middle class,health care is costly and partial with expensive supplements and omissions.
The wealthy have superb health care compared with standards in the NHS, but this is a case of the `best being the enemy of the good.`
One further point.The majority of Brits think the NHS is getting worse,but more than 90% of patients are satisfied or very satisfied with the care they receive! The source of this apparent discrepancy is the repetition of negative stories in the press.
best wishes.
Bryher
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An interesting concept you pose there Andrew
It is surely better to have the NHS available to all, than the Americans insurance type, although each system obviously has its enormous benefits
But isn't one of the problems in both systems the amount of money that doctors and administrators demand for fulfilling their roles? After all, many only have one degree, and I presume that the NHS pays their practising insurance whilst working within the system.
A few years ago the government encouraged more doctors to be produced by our universities, but instead of the "excess" causing "market conditions" within salary bandings the whole of the NHS decided to retain the salary structure and thereby deprive some of those new graduates from a career.
If every person in the NHS above Houseman took a 10% salary cut, then for every 9 of the same grade the NHS could employ another person. Imagine what could happen to our queues if the NHS had 10% more productive staff. Plus it might mean that working hours per person as a whole reduce and thereby prevent the possibility of tiredness and mistakes creeping into the system. Plus it also allows for greater career progression.
I would like my consultant to be able to think "I'd like to investigate that" rather than having to keep to his "targets". There is no money currently for long term conditions within the NHS because they can't be measured or targeted.
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The term "NHS is for all" is frequently bandied about, but is it true? I believe that the homeless are excluded from seeing a GP, but in an emergency they would be admitted to an A and E department in a hospital. I know that charities for the homeless will arrange for medical care and checkups for these people, but the medicines are donated as is the time of the medical practitioners.
Even for those with a home the NHS can be expensive regarding prescription charges which have risen at an alarming rate over the last 11 years. You used to pay the fee for evrything on a prescription, now it is a fee times each item. So if you need 3 inhalers you pay 3 times GBP 7.30 (it used to be this, it's probably gone up again), which is not cheap.
And Saga you are correct, there is scope for cutting a lot of admin without hurting front line services. I have no idea how many Quangos sit in between Dept of Health, NHS, regional NHS trusts, hospitals, GPs etc. I think if the compilation of the tractor statistics were abolished, few people would lose much sleep.
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#14
within the NHS surely there must be an end to doctors being independent contractors within the NHS. They should have contracts directly with the NHS and just be paid a salary like everybody else. The taxpayer funds their training, so they must commit at least ten years to the NHS.
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I posted on the previous blog about a report on American Bloomberg about swine flu, and the reaction of banks in the Square Mile to the effects it could have on their staffing. Although they would not say so, it appeared to me that the banks may well have contingency plans in place to vaccinate their staff.
What that raises would be the prospect that if we only have enough of the vaccine for 50% of the population will the monied bankers be able to circumvent that by bringing in their own supplies? Does it mean a sort of black market, because if they bring it in from outside (eg America) someone outside (eg in America) is going to miss out?
Would it be a good thing if all firms copied the banks in that it would reduce the number of people the NHS has to provide for, or would it be a bad thing in that, like our previous blog on education, money will get immunity while those not working for bankers or the like will have to wait their turn. And perhaps die for lack of a vaccine?
The Bloomberg piece included a suggestion that the cost to the UK could rise to 60bn. Would that figure go down if we vaccinated those who would save us from losing 60bn? Apart from emergency services, that would presumably start with our welath creators. Back to the monied people again...
We need something more substantial from the Government. Two weeks ago at PMQs a Liberal asked if Parliament would come back if the swine flu situation developed badly. She was laughed at by the Government front bench as they almost always do to all Liberals. I bet they are not laughing now, and yes, she was right. In my view Parliament should be recalled and now.
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@16
I'm not in favour of the golden handcuffs on doctors, because effectively the more money in their salary the more tax they should be paying.
The NHS is a training ground, does not fulfil any research role (despite the fact that it collects huge amounts of data), and actually allows private doctors access to equipment which reduces the cost to the NHS.
The fact that a doctor can have so many in a clinic that they always over run says that there aren't staff. If the only way to employ staff and reduce the burden is salary sacrifice then it should be done
The NHS is a service provider, but one where there is no accountability for the money spent, and is always playing catch up...never prevention, and that is why they struggle when cases present and they have no baselines to refer to but must rely on aged data about averages of people brought up in different times.
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17. At 11:54am on 24 Jul 2009, majorroadaheadagain wrote:
I posted on the previous blog about a report on American Bloomberg about swine flu, and the reaction of banks in the Square Mile to the effects it could have on their staffing. Although they would not say so, it appeared to me that the banks may well have contingency plans in place to vaccinate their staff.
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I understand where you are coming from on this, but I have reservations about a using vaccine that has bypassed the normal rigorous testing procedures. During the First Gulf war a vaccine was rushed out and used on US and UK troops to counter any biological or chemical weapons that Saddam might have had at his disposal. Many of the troops returned home very ill indeed with some shocking after effects that even now prevents these men from leading a normal life.
I am also old enough to remember the Thalidomide scandal. What is alarming about the swine flu pandemic is the skewed distribution of cases around the world. This is quite odd and I wonder if the diagnosis of the disease is consistent in all countries. The classic old chestnut is the UK recording a larger number of heart attack fatalities than France, but France frequently categorises this event as "accidental death" which is rarely used by UK coroners.
But the government also needs to be clear about what to do. If the UK cases really have jumped to 100,000 in a week, they ought to appoint someone either with military logistics experience or UN Humanitarian Aid distribution to get tamiflu and the vaccine (when this ready) out to the population. Health ministers should be ensuring that the health system still works, the day to day running of the swine flu pandemic should be left to the experts.
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Andrew,
may I suggest that some of your commenteers read the BBC news front page where news of the corruption investigation by the US authorities are now coming in to the public domain. It would appear the the western deocracies have a problem. Anybody got a kidney for sale?
This is shameful but not new, we had T Dan Smith, and Poulson. America has had its own problems over the years. Go back to the twenties and look up the situation of Albert Fall. Look at Charles Forbes and the US Veterans Bureau where he is alleged to have inflated the price of government land sold for hospitals in return for a share of the profit from the sale. Furthermore, he awarded hospital construction contracts to firms who gave hima cut.
So, when we listen to all the good deeds done for our veterans of today then be afraid, very afraid. It would seem that we do not learn the lessons from history. Some people are greedy and will do anything to line their own pockets. It is not unknown for some politicians to enhance their carers by even sending soldiers off to fight illegal wars, and perform illegal acts, and then profit from their actions.
There is another film apart from The Cruel Sea, 'its the war the bloody war' it is Fame is the Spur!
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Andrew,
wake up, wake up, the result of the Norwich by election has just been revealed, and Brown must listen to what the voters are saying. To lose the seat by over seven thousand to the conservatives is a disgrace.
How on earth can Brown still call himself Prime Minister. He is leading the labour party to total and absolute annihilation in the general election. I mean he dare not even have an election in Glasgow where the former speaker has been elevated to the lords.
Brown really must announce that he will not serve a full term if even he was lucky enough for labour to have anything like a majority in the next parliament. He surely cannot continue to run labour, he will be totally emasculated so he may as well go now so that somebody can try to recover. John Hutton is an example of what will happen over the coming months. Politicians will resign en-masse so that they can fix up their jobs.
Harriet Harman is blowing in the wind if she really believes anything she is spouting. There is uncertainty in the air all right, amongst labour politicians. They are the ones going off to the labour exchange, better improve the service because they are the ones going to use it. How convenient that parliament is in recess because otherwise Brown would actually have to be in the commons next wednesday to face MPs, now that would have been so funny. Can anybody hear Gordon explaining this ignominious defeat, just like our defeat in Iraq, just like our imminent defeat in Afghanistan.
Apparently we have advanced 2 kilometres in two months in Afghanistan. Sorry but if you had an occupying force with superior technology would you use IEDs. It really is a no brainer, what did the SOE use in Europe in WWII, oh that's right they really took on the Germans face to face!
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bryher @ 13
yes, I'm sure that's the case and I'm definitely not wanting to see us move to the American system - that would be odd (wouldn't it?) when they are so keen to move to something more like ours - my point is the NHS has such a revered place in our national life that people can't look at it objectively, especially when it comes to dishing out the money, and I don't think that's "healthy"
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Andrew,
we must understand that there are 9,150 of our soldiers in Afghanistan, how do I know this because the PM tells me. However, how many have been killed or injured since we had that number, so are there still 9,150 or is it less. Why tell us the number of soldiers, which should be a secret, whereas we are not told the number of helicopters, which the enemy can easily count.
Also, of the soldiers in Afghanistan how many are front line troops and how many trainers and mentors. How many are actually on the front line, and don't tell me that they are all on the front line. I do not support the war, I do not support the occupation and I am not alone and there is no justification for the sacrifice of our soldiers. Why do the politicians keep using religious terms.
It is a battle for the people, security for the people. The only way we seem to be achieving security is by actually killing them. They will be secure in their graves. The opposition is taking enormous casualties, just like WWI in Verdun, we will bleed them dry. Just how stupid are these people.
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saga @ 4
Interesting that the Clear Progressive Thinking party manifesto includes a one-tier education system but a two-tier health service!
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From the conversations, I have had. The NHS is bloated with the symphonies of management consultants correcting and then re-correcting the mistakes they have just made. Then the same people will be there having to review and restructure the NHS.
Not sure if the current outbreak of news on Swine is genuine, probably another Labour smear to direct attention away from its current plight. Yes, we are probably in need of a pandemic to get rid of some surplus populace anyway. I suppose the Greens would welcome this as it reduces future waste users. There has been a cyclical pandemic over history, so I doubt if we can beat Mother Nature for long, the same with the global warming. It is funny how some science change their views after retiring and getting their pension; almost the same rules apply to the Armed Services chiefs.
I could have told them that the Govt. was not spending enough money. You only had to see the merging of various regiments to know that we did not have enough troops, etc. I think we should label this the Fourth Afghan war, just to make sure some one remembers. As I pointed out before, it Alexander the Great could only achieve a stalemate, then what hope do we have?
Probably, the best idea is to revive the Khyber Rifles and let them police the area. Something that did work for some time. My only hope was the MPs could all be send to out there for their hols to see what it like to be shot at, probably too busy counting their pensions.
Cynical, moi?
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I've never understood the socialised medicine arguement, and personally believe its used only by the people who profit from America's health nightmare and those who have been conned/bought by them.
After all the "socialised" police force and fire service work fine.
Imagine a policeman demanding thousands of dollars before trying to catch aa burglar, or firemen demanding to see an insurance certificate before putting out your house fire?
As for the NHS fair enough its not ideal, and there are people who work there at all levels who are not up to the standard expected in such a crucial service, but there are a far greater number of people who work harder and cheaper to compensate for them.
Being able to treat the sick regardless of profit is a sign of how advanced European society is socially, not only compared to the 3rd world but also compared to America.
And its worth any price.
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25. As I pointed out before, it Alexander the Great could only achieve a stalemate, then what hope do we have?
Yep, but i wouldn't be surprised if his troops had better armour and equipment than ours do. :-p
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#27
Also you must remember that there was no media in those days to report on any excesses by his soldiers, no looting and pillaging.
Furthermore, am I correct in saying that what the Greeks did was to inegrate with the local people, married them or made alliances. This could be one of the problems with regard to our occupation, we just cannot really mix with the locals, meet them down the pub for a pint, or marry their women. Just a thought.
Maybe the British and American forces ought to be replaced by, not only the local soldiers and police, but also foreign contingents of Moslem states, like Saudi Arabia for example. Where is the United Nations on all this, rather than NATO. Where are the blue helmets.
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Surrey ABC post 25
"Yes, we are probably in need of a pandemic to get rid of some surplus polulace... Cyncical, moi?"
That's not cycnical. It is just plain awful, both as an argument and as an opinion.
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Andrew,
I can't believe that more people have not commented on the economy. Despite what Brown may say the latest figures on GDP are truly appalling. The tax take is fallig off a cliff, production is falling, input prices are rising, there is rampant deflation, the unemployed are coming off the figures into non jobs. This is a mess. There will be an autumn election! oh but the stock markets are rising, they just love it.
Actually why does not Brown make more of the rises in the various stock markets, I mean that is a plus point is it not. the only bit of good news and he doesn't even mention the success of the capitalist stock markets. Maybe the big event they are looking for is defeat of labour in the general election.
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TAG
You are quite right, although there is a feeling of a phony war about this. Brown is just hanging on for a miracle, and he knows that from the experience of the John Major election, when Major got on his soap box and won against all the odds and the views of every pundit, that there is a significant percentage of the population who would switch from Tories in the opinion polls to voting Labour again at an election if Cameron slips up or Brown gets some ammunition from somewhere. What the people who understand these things as you do see in the terms you have written are a total mystery to those who think that GDP stands for "get down the pub".
The great problem is that those who want a Tory voctory because it would be good for the country might hope that things stay awful long even for a June 2010 election to nail Brown. I want a Tory victory but not at the price of hoping that the economy stays in the mire. That is the Cameron Conundrum. If things improve then you will hear Brown start to speak again - for now as I say it is phony war time.
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Andrew,
there is an awful lot being said about Afghanistan but very little action. Accordingly I have put a petition on the Number 10 to set up an urgent inquiry into Afghanistan. There will be one on Iraq, but Brown has emasculated it because the inquiry is too late.
What we need is an inquiry now into Afghanistan because we are told we may be there for a generation. In which case we should tell future generations how we got into this mess. Even when t comes down to one or two deaths a month, which it will, that will still be unaccpetable. So may I please include a link to my petition on the official number 10 site and ask anybody who really cares, I mean who really cares, to sign the petition. How many more lives must be lost for no reason, for example I thought that we have been training the Afghan police and soldiers now for eight years, how much longer?
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Afghaninquiry/
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Further to my last post thank you so much. In the meantime consider that we have supposedly been training the Afghanistan police and soldiers for eight years. How is it that we have seen the deaths of our eighteen year old soldiers. Surely they have not been through training since they were twelve!
I think it is a very legitimate question to ask, where exactly are the Afghan police and soldiers? It is not good enough for Brown to say before going on holiday with the other MPs that he spoke to Karzai, because he only spoke to him after the offensive had commenced about afghan participation. I demand that we should see the Memoranda of Understanding that we have signed with Afghanistan, it should not be a secret! Now that will tell us what we are allowed and not allowed to do.
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31. majorroadaheadagain
That's 'Go Down a Pint'.
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Tag
Majorroadahead (30/31
Your comments on the economy seem to resolve themselves into
Mr.Brown vs Mr.Cameron,while the essential issue is the propensity of capitalism to periodic crises.
Mr. Greenspan (Federal Reserve) spoke of `A once in a century economic tsunami.`
In some political circles here and the USA it is believed that the crisis is due to the increasing economic role of the state,but is that right?.Two factors have increased the power of government since `29:War and war preparation, and economic crisis. This change has happened whatever the political complexion of elites,left,right or centre.
The question then is how best to use the power of the state to regulate the instability of a capitalist system?,and in whose interests this intervention should occur?
The implicit agenda of party political struggle, with its personalization and negativism, ignores these real economic forces.
The essential question is the application of knowledge to resolve the crisis.Get that wrong and it will last for a generation like the thirties.
Party political jousting has the merit of safe and familiar contours.But policies for the crisis are critical,and must be based on knowledge,not faith.
All the best.
Bryher.
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29 - I think this view is called Malthusian, but we managed to use technology to solve that in the early 1800s. Perhaps we really do need to terraform Mars to solve the Earth's current crisis. Been too heavily influenced by the latest Torchwood. 8-)
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#35
you say 'The question then is how best to use the power of the state to regulate the instability of a capitalist system?'
in your question I think that you have actually answered your own question in the question. to me the whole point of a real capitalist system is that in the capitalist sytem the state is non existent. I think that we have never allowed a true capitalist sytem. as soon as it looks like it is going to suceed then the state comes in and ruins it, they get involved.
The problem is that the true capitalist must never be allowed to function because it is too terrible for words. It would be, not Darwinist in its nature, but more like Nietzsche's, with survival of the fittest and all that 'stuff'.
The problem is that in Britain we have elections, these require that the state gets involved to save jobs, justify their whole existence, to get elected. To me true capitalism would be more akin to total free anarchy, not the anarchy that most people fear, of bombings and the black hand gang, but the sort that says, 'do unto others as you want others to do to you'.
Well that's what I think anyway, we have never had capitalism, we have had capitalists but not the -ism, not really.
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Just turning to another matter of health, I was reading a letter from a retired doctor the other day.
This doctor received a letter from the British Medical Association asking him as a retired doctor, if he would agree to be added to the list of those who could be called up in a national emergency such as a flu pandemic.
He was quite happy to be added in order to help. Then he received a letter from the BMA saying that to remain on this register he would have to pay an annual fee of £390 pounds. This was because exemption from payment would have broken the Labour Governments age discrimination rule. As he is retired and would be giving his work for free, he and his comptempories declined the offer. Therefore they have been removed from the register.
Now we have swine flu this totally inept Government has allowed all these doctors who could have helped to be removed from the register, surely that is an absolute disgrace.
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Tag.
As you rightly say,unrestricted free competition has never existed but has been regulated by law and public opinion.However, a completely free market defintion of capitalism is unhistoric and therefore irrelevant.
Marx`s definition of capitalism as the private ownership of the means of production,distribution and exchange will do as a working hypothesis.
Yes I know,even in Marx`s day the definition would exclude the armed forces,the judiciary,trusts,charities,orphanages etc., and today that list would be greatly extended.
However,if we restrict the definition of capitalism to the predominant mode of production,distribution and exchange, we can analyze specific institutions like the changing role of the state in a capitalist economy.
At the risk of repetition, let me repeat the simple relationships previously mentioned:The capitalist state has increased its role throughout the 20th and 21st century as a result of war/war preparation and economic crisis.
In the current crisis it is essential that political management is based on knowledge not prejudice.As Keynes remarked,what passes for commonsense solutions is usually based on some long dead scribbler.
All the best
Bryher
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Good morning each & Andrew.
#33
Your 8 year point is striking; with 18-8=10, only more so.
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It must always be remembered when talking about the NHS why it exists.
After WW1 and the promise of a "Land fit for heros" that never materialized those that fought and lived thorugh WW2 were determined that they would not be betrayed again.
The NHS was and remains therefore this nations reward to itself and stands as a testament to the hopes and dreams of those that suffered and in many cases lost much.
It is this nations inheritance from a generation who had strengh of purpose to overcome evil incarnate and yet had both the vision and foresight to hope and dream for a better future and build it.
Although a huge fan of the NHS I have to say I have some serious conerns about the direction it is being driven. It seems to me that it is becoming a virtual dictatorship of health where you are forced to conform to a certain lifestyle in order to access it services. bMy friends and I call it the dictatorship of "health fascists."
The NHS needs to stick to what it is good at, healing the sick. It needs to stop pontificating to people about how they live their lives. I include in this injunction all those top doctors organistations.
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38. At 09:05am on 25 Jul 2009, Susan-Croft wrote:
Just turning to another matter of health, I was reading a letter from a retired doctor the other day.
This doctor received a letter from the British Medical Association asking him as a retired doctor, if he would agree to be added to the list of those who could be called up in a national emergency such as a flu pandemic.
He was quite happy to be added in order to help. Then he received a letter from the BMA saying that to remain on this register he would have to pay an annual fee of 390 pounds. This was because exemption from payment would have broken the Labour Governments age discrimination rule. As he is retired and would be giving his work for free, he and his comptempories declined the offer. Therefore they have been removed from the register.
Now we have swine flu this totally inept Government has allowed all these doctors who could have helped to be removed from the register, surely that is an absolute disgrace.
------------------------------------------
Susan
Something similar exists for people who visit or work in schools. All such people have to be registered on a database (to prevent another Huntly case in cambridgeshire), to ensure they are suitable. Various authors of childrens books who would read excerpts of their books to children on an occasional basis (once a term) were told that they also had to register for a fee of GBP 60.
They refused on principle. In this country now we are all considered guilty of everything until we sign up to some database, and pay the relevant stealth tax. Whether this will lower educational standards further is hard to say - can they go any lower?
Are databases the new Trade Unions?
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#42
Database...singular.
The compulsion has gone from ID cards BUT that singular database is still there.
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43 Oudeis
I began to think I was the only one concerned about that data base.
ID cards more or less abandoned but NOT the accompanying data base, This will contain every possible detail of your personal life. Current adddress and all previous addresses with fines for not updating moves.
Refusal to register will lead to 1000 pound ( no pound sign on my keyboard!) fines eventually but initially refusal of passports and driving licences. See being an island has its bad points. In mainland europe people walk , ride or drive from country to country with no hassle. Come "home" and you get hassle to get back in. I digress.
Fingerprints photos etc. Orwell only half imagined the regime we have.
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#44
xT;
Indeed, it seems we the people are the enemy. This is what becomes of us approaching the status of citizen. And to think it all began with the words...
"As I stand here before 10 Downing Street I know all too well the huge responsibility that is upon me and the great trust that the British people have placed in me.....
....This is not a mandate for dogma or for doctrine, or for a return to the past, but it was a mandate to get those things done in our country that desperately need doing for the future.
And this new Labour government will govern in the interests of all our people the whole of this nation."
TB 2nd May 1997
BTW There is no pound sign available in this blog, only '?'. Do they know something we do not?
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Good Evening Andrew,
over here in the good old country Harry Patch has died; as you will probably know by now.
Now I hear the Gordon Brown has 'ordered' a memorial service for those who served and died for their country in WWI. However, what I do remember is that when Brown confirmed our retreat from Iraq that there would be a parade to 'celebrate' their work in Iraq. Now will that parade still beheld or will it be merged with the new memorial service. What worries me most of all is that this memorial service will also 'celebrate' the soldiers who have fought, died or been injured in all conflicts since, including Iraq and Afghanistan.
I think that if there is to be a memorial service, then it should represent all the military who have fought, died and been injured. The war which Harry fought in was not World War I, it was the Great War, it could not be World War I until World War II, because there was not Queen Elizabeth the First, until our current Queen came along. Nobody knew that there would be another Queen Elizabeth until Queen Elizabeth came to the throne. But I digress.
I think that if anybody listens to the words of Harry Patch, it was about the dead, the young men who died, on both sides. I think that it was about the wasted lives, what did they die for, they followed orders, only trouble is that Harry was a conscript, as millions of men were, they did not sign up of their own free will. Same in other countries throuhgout the world.
I think that it will be wrong to have this memorial service. Just as it is wrong to continue to name the dead soldiers from our current conflicts. Did we read out the names of the dead in parliament during the Great War, of course not. Did we bring back the bodies of the dead from the Great War, of course not, the country would have come to a standstill.
There is one thing which parliament is consistent with however. That is that the war against Germany was declared on the 4th August 1914. Parliament sat and discussed the situation for a few days and then guess what, yes they went into recess on the 10th August 1914, and then went off to shoot the Grouse. Trust me you can read it in Hansard, adjounment debates and all that.
The situation in Afghanistan is appalling. After the Great War people asked what on earth went on, how did this happen. I have already said on your blog about all the investigations which were held in to the events leading up to the Great War, to show who was responsible. Keynes even had to write a book 'How to pay for the war', he was also involved in the issue over reparations because he and others understood the financial implications. Also Keynes had let some of his fellows who disagreed with the war down, because Keynes actually worked in the Treasury to pay for the war.
For Blair, read Lloyd-George, for Keynes read Brown. There must be no memorial service unless it includes representatives from all sides, if it is to work then it must be the largest peace demonstration the world has ever seen. Brown must announce the withdrawal of British soldiers from Afghanistan, this is his chance to do the right thing.
This memorial service must not be with flags, bugles, or a military parade. The Great War was a disaster, it was waste on a massive scale, but it was not the war to end wars, it was in reality a European Civil War, the lessons were not learnt. This 'memorial' service should also be a celebration of the European Union, a Union which has brought peace to Europe, after millions died, this is about 'Ode to Joy', not God Save the Queen.
The Great War changed our society, never again was the cry, yet we still fight and kill 'the enemy', who are the enemy. I think that enemy is the politicians, they give the orders, they have failed. A real memorial to the people like Harry Patch would be to sign a global peace treaty, to end war, to stop the killing, to stop producing the arms, to stop producing the bombs and bullets, and to stop the banks funding wars, and conflicts. Now I think that an announcement from Brown that he is supporting total nuclear disarmament, and that we will be in the forefront, Britain must announce in parliament that we will end all military expeditions and that the army will in future be referred to as the Home Defence Force and will not go outside our borders unless wearing the blue helmets of the United Nations, or join a European Army.
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Good morning each & Andrew.
US health care.
A whistlebloewer speaks out here...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/26/us-healthcare-obama-barack-change
TAG, have yourself a peaceful Sunday. One day at a time.
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AND...
In today''s Times...
Government to cut wounded soldiers awards.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6727677.ece
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I like it one day at a time says Oudeis, that is the problem. We are doing nothing at one day at a time. I am fed up waiting. Why the aircraft being ordered and built, the billions of pounds being wasted. If the money can be found for the aircraft carriers why not the schools and hospitals.
Why spend the money on Trident, if the money can be found for Trident, the missiles, and the submarines, then surely money can be found for the schols and hospitals.
Billions of pounds will be paid to public services in pensions, pensions for which there is no money, so where is that to come from?
A simple question which might actually highlight the upcoming nuclear demographic time bomb. Now Harry Patchet was 111, now how much did he actually contribute during his working life time to income tax and national insurance? Think about it before you explode in anger, these are the issues which have to be faced. People have actually benefited more from the system than they ever contributed towards it. The system is bankrupt. People have been working all their lives and they have been conned, by all the politicians. Just as the banks have been baled out, the same with us all. We have allowed ourselves to be conned, the national insurance scheme is a scandal, a giant ponzi scheme. Now this government want to set up another system, a National Care Service, which will have to be funded separately from the National Health service.
Go and enjoy your holidays you failed politicians, as for Brown, he really must learn somehow not to smile at the wrong time. There are times when you should frown, when talking about the economy. There are times when you should look serious, when talking about the dead in afghanistan. There are times when you should smile, when visiting a NHS hospital to see new born babies. However, you should not smile when praising the soldiers, nor when talking about an MP who has resigned their seat and cost you a parliamentary seat.
On that final point then maybe more MPs ought to resign now, as I have said in the past, to cause by elections. If the conservatives can take 82 days holiday then they might as well all resign and bring about a general election, David Davis did resign, he showed guts, which as a former SAS soldier he would. Why don't the tories do the decent thing, put the money on the table, and resign. There must be a general election before the Queens speech. She must never utter those words 'My parliament will...' to this contemptible parliament.
I did love it when she asked at the LSE why nobody saw this economic crash coming. I may say to her that some of us did, only I am not an expert, so who listens to poor old Mr Griffin, with his stories of what has been going on in Iraq, about Afghanistan, about the economy, about so many things, now where is that wolf...I have tried, I have sometimes felt like Churchill with his years in the wilderness, we all have our Black Dogs you know Andrew, sometimes the weight can be too much to carry, but somebody has to do it.
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TAG - "should also be a celebration of the European Union"
I always enjoy your entertaining posts. I like paticularly your search for accuracy in descibing the Great War rather than the first World War and about how the first Queen Elizabeth could not become the first until there was a second (I would argue she could actually but the second could not become the second unless there had been a first but you may have said that).
Where I am not with you is on your thoughts on the European Union for two reasons. Firstly, to take your example of the Wars and the Elizabeths it cannot be a Union of Europe if it only includes 27 countries from that continent, and, worst of all, deliberately excludes the biggest country in Europe, Russia (at least the part of that country that is in Europe).
Secondly, you have only to look at what I would call "The Partial European Union" and see how it behaves to suspect that what is going on has very little to do with honest men and women getting together to do their best for the people of the 27 countries but the big countries like Germany, France and Italy using it as a power base to ensure their own influence and the well-being of their own citizens. Nothing wrong with that provided you dont dress it up as some great altruistic mission. Some will say the failure to reform agriculture and fisheries are glaring examples of how self-interest will always come to the fore no matter how much rhetoric there is about good intentions.
Afghanistan is probably the worst example of how a true European Union would never work unless the world were turned on its head, and we were freed from people seeking power, influence, money and from people who see bogeymen in all the wrong places. For that reason I very much doubt you put together a United States of America were it to be attempted today. They would nearly all say yes, but dont include California.
Take the "Partial European Army", proposed by the Germans and the French and others, but not wholeheartedly supported by us. The main proponents signed up to Afghanistan but keep their soldiers in at night, and have never stepped forward to their American and British colleagues in the UN and said "look, you two are taking the brunt of the action and the losses. We want to do our bit. That is what we signed up for in 2001. We (the Germans) recognise that we are a third bigger than you Britain and yet are not taking our share of the burden, as Mr Bown has pointed out to us on numerous occasions. We will take our turn in Helmand and the other spots of danger, and get our troops out of their bunkers". I know the French and Germans have lost soldiers in the region, but probably more from traffic accidents than from action against the Taleban (if I am wrong on that no doubt others will tell me).
Incidentally, leaving aside my blog name (which might have been designed to describe my geographical and logistical plight living near the M3 but wasnt) I love the utopian version of the world you describe, free from wars, oppression and all the rest. The only missing ingedient in the equation is the fact that utopia as a model will always be spoiled as a concept by the need to include human beings. On a really tiny example I quote from an under 14 football match in Swansea recently. The referee sent off four players and eventually abandoned the match. The father of one of the players ran on to the pitch, hit the referee and ran away. The referee needed ten stitches and the assailaint was given 18 months imprisonment. He had 90 previous offences. If people will go to such violent ends for the sake of an under 14 football match it is not difficult to imagine how more extreme versions of violence can erupt without the presence of proper law and order, which in international terms must mean the maintenance of adequate armes and police.
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TAG - 49 "People have actually benefitted more from the system than they ever contributed towards it".
for every man who lives to 111 and takes out more than he put in there will a far greater number of 59 years old who die and took out nothing from what they had put in. That is not to minimise the crisis you are talking about, but just to ensure that there iss some balance.
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#50
surely if anybody disagrees with the idea of Utopia then there is no alternative other than to execute them, all for the greater good of course. The ends justify the means.
#51
surely your comment proves the point in that all forms of insurance are against natural justice. Consider a life insurance or endowment policy which depends almost entirely on somebody else paying premiums and then dying and not collecting their 'reward' for saving. In this case a beneficiary depends on the early death of a policy holder, the old one about being worth more dead than alive. Now euthanasia...what happens if a policy holder has an outstanding insurance policy and somebody sends them off early. Is it suicide, in which case the policy does not pay out, or is a form of murder, in which case it will.
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Andrew,
I notice that President Sarkozy of France has been taken to hospital after feeling unwell after exercising.
There were concerns earlier on in the year of the health of the Duke of Edinburgh, and also ourown Prime Minister. I always remember Macmillian and that he left office with an illness. The illness did not end up terminal as I remember he lived a very comfortable life for many years after dianosis. The same with that fellow Ernest Saunders, now was he not released early from prison because of illness.
Can anybody give a list of those who they wish actually had an illness which forced them to relinquish office.
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#53
(he he)This list you speak of...
Most if not all those we could think of would be carriers of rather than sufferers from. ;)
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TAG 52
Execution, then euthanasia, suicide and murder, all in one post. I am glad you dont know who I really am.
I am going to get back to the Tour de France, and hope someone doesnt fall off their bike, in which case presumably someone would of shot them from a grassy knoll.
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I offer Berlusconi, from a rounmd of applause
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Tag 49
"People have actually benefited more from the system than they ever contributed towards it."
Well both my parents were still paying income tax into their 80's and I am sure they are not exceptions in this.
I am afraid life is a lottery, with the uncertainty with
private pensions it is very hard to convince yourself that is worth making significant contributions because firstly you will get so little back and worse stil you may not be around to enjoy it anyhow.
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#55
Could not find a way of bringing all the various forms of execution in to the comment.
However, really weird but because the weather is so bad down here in the westcountry I watched the Birdman of Alcatraz, 'one day at a time'. Is that how we should live our lives, one day at a time. Before you know it sixty years have gone past.
As for the weather I think that this is all part of a cunning government plan, they seed the clouds so that it always rains down here to try to keep the tourists away. Everything was great until the Met Office (part of the MoD) were moved down here. Maybe if they had been put in Norwich as was one of the options then labour may not have lost the seat.
As for my conspiracy theory in respect of the westcountry, please note that there was a lot of publicity and organisation to keep the whole world from coming here for the total eclipse of the sun which took place ten years ago next month. A lot of technoques were tested which have subsequently come into general use. The truth is out there. One day at a time.
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I remember that eclipse so well. I was totally paralysed at the time, and I was wheeled out into the courtyard of a rehab centre where a nurse held a piece of cardboard with a hole in it so that the image would reflect onto a piece of paper. My son went down to Cornwall to see it, but there was much better visibiliy from the home he left in London, which shows that you can go great distances to follow the rainbow but it is often where you least expect it. Mine is where it has always been. Still, whatever the weather that fudge is divine...
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58 TAG
Total Eclipse
Well whatever it was, it dint keep me away or the 4 girls I brought with me, or the thousands of bikers hammering past me on the M5.
Then as soon as it was over,a fantastic ray of dark that came at you and went over you and yet a few miles away in every direction you could see it was light yes, as soon as it was over thousands of people hit the road and came to a grinding halt,except the bikers screaming through the gaps.
Good times.
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Aah... I have very different reasons for remembering the eclipse [although I actually missed the moment] being esconsced in a room explaining how a project I was responsible for had gone disastrously wrong.
It all seemed very portentous the light disappearing outside and my project disappearing down the pan inside.
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My memory of the Eclipse was going down to Plymouth the night before, clubbing until the clubs closed, sleeping on the Hoe and waking to a brilliant sunlit morning, and then getting a boat I had booked and going out into the Sound. Only trouble was the clouds slowly picked up during the morning so by the time of the event itself there was almost complete cloud cover.
It was however, a very weird experience, one which one day I hope to repeat, only not in England. It will have to be abroad in a country which does not have the weather which we do down here in good old Devon.
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#61
I am surprised that your project went down the pan. You do not seem the type of person who would let such an event happen.
I had a project once, a Fixed Interest Module I was developing. The FI fund manager kept complaining that he was never very good at his job because he did not a system to give him the information he required. so I was tasked with developing a module which worked. It did, it was brilliant, even if I must say so myself.
So what happens, developed it, delivered it, working perfectly. The guy then immediately resigned. I think I learnt something that year.Like how to calculate Yields to Average Life, Duration, but the most important thing, don't assume that people who ask you to do stuff actually know what they are doing. They always need somebody or something to blame.
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Talking about total eclipses, Alastair was up to his tricks this morning wiggling like mad over cuts. It seems that the construct they are now putting on it is we have some difficult choices to make. Which I suppose means that if you choose a you dont choose b. The no cuts argument only works if b doesnt cost you any money? He did get back on to blaming the bankers, which we have all done in our time, but when it was suggested that he wanted them to rebuild their reserves and lend out more money at the same time Andrew Marr was looking bemused.
Incidentally, I was listening to Five Live just now, and they are playing a repeat of a programme from Wednesday. Is that a potential complaint under the Trades Description laws?
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62 TAG
Youve started somat wi this eclipse. I went to Plymouth as well and on the Hoe as well as every hippy stall and event they had a massive tv screen and pictures of the eclipse proper were beamed down from an RAF hercules. So we got a picture of the detail and the experience of the light dark light on the Hoe.
Then me driving back with 4 generously proportioned girls all crammed into a Honda Prelude when they were a smallish sports 2 door coupe. Oh happy days.
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Well its just like America to change one totally inept President for another. Bush wasted Americas money in one way and Obama is intent on doing it in another way. At least we had more fun with Bush in charge. Apart from good rhetoric Obama is no different from Bush in his foreign policy. Obamas advisors are less able than those under Bush and are not doing a very good job on matters of the economy. Add to that Obamas constant gaffes and we have Carter the peanut farmer all over again for President.
I suppose it has not occurred to Obama that he must first of all reform their health care services before he starts promising anything to anyone. Wasting taxpayers money at this time of recession is not an option. The American taxpayer will not stand by and allow their dollars to go down the tube as we in Britain allow our pounds to do.
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xTunbridge 65
Yeah and you have not changed one bit, bet you could still get them girls to go in the car with you.
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67 Susan-Croft
Next eclipse then?
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#65
I used to have a Honda Prelude as well for a time. Two litres, four wheel drive, pop up headlights, it was a beaut.
Mind you there was a time when I also had a Mini, two inch striaght through exhaust, floor mounted push button start, sliding windows, with string door opener, but what was brilliant was that my girl friend at the time had the longest legs and the shortest skirts, long blond hair, thick as two planks, but hey it was the late sixties! She got me out of so many scrapes when stopped by the police, all she had to do was just sit there and I was told off, and told not to be a naughty boy. Would not happen today of course.
Now the moderators might pull this one but I hope that they don't because what is now politically incorrect was not in the past. Must we not talk about our pasts, it is what makes us what we are today. Of course I would never dream of behaving in a like manner today, no not at all. Mind you if you were to ask me about Open University last year at the University of Bath! And as for the the Spa!
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69 TAG
Oh yes!
You forgot the magic wand gear lever and the all round drum brakes .
Yeah , more often than not the cops gave you a talking to then. What happened?
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#70
life I suppose, I was in Essex at that time and then well, moved around a bit to Barnes, Fulham Road, Putney High Street, Keswick Road, Balham, Tooting, Norwood Junction, Machynnleth, Shepherds Bush, Exeter, Prague, Budapest, Oslo, Bergen, Riyhad, Bratislava, Plymouth, Portsmouth, Yoevil, Nuneaton, and just a few other places. Father was in the navy so always moved, mind you I never did manage to get a girl in every port.
So I suppose I've been around a bit. Taking a day at a time.
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71 TAG
You sure are travelled.
But then the cop had a normal sallon painted black, white was just coming in, with big police signs on the roof and after stopping you they climbed out leisurly and came over and asked "just how fast were you going?" They knew so I never understood why they asked, unless to check your honesty/inventiveness. A ticking off then on your way.
Now, round here they have unmarked cars by the ton, even a Skoda Octavia, with concealed red and blue lights. They jump out and come racing over with the penalty pad ready in their hand.
Its all gone wrong.
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#61 TAG
I am afraid it was very much my fault - we learn from our mistakes and I have learnt a lot.....
Nice to see you loosen your tie a bit but be careful XTun & Croftie can lead you astray.....and that was before I knew about the loose women XTun.
PS Susan, I Will pay for that G&T next time - by the way what's yours, if I get there first- white wine?
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Andrew,
whilst a lot of people are being distracted by the issue over the medicare system in the US may I ask that you look into what is happening at grass roots level with Ron Paul and the Campaign for Liberty. I think that in the States, just as will happen over here, the young in particular are beginning to see that there must be change.
There must be an audit of the Federal reserve, what s going on with the economy. The bankers growing rich on the backs of the bale out by the government. The situation with regard to Government Motors, these things are not going to go away, neither will Giantanamo Bay, extra-ordinary rendition, enhanced inetrrogation technoques, and the use of drones to kill and maim women and children. As for the previous administration, why nobody brought to book, there must be trials. America needs its own truth and reconciliation, the splits are too deep to be healed.
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#72
It all went wrong the day the music died.
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75 TAG
Wasnt that when God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost caught the last train to the coast?
They werent daft !
73 meninwhitecoats
I just like company!
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meninwhitecoats 73
Yep how did you guess, I am a white wine girl and you owe me one.
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xTunbridge 76
I know this song its American Pie by Don Mclean. Great song. I tell you what, we should throw it all in, buy ourselves a van and go a travelling. We are only going pay loads of Browns tax on our money anyway. Coats can drive because he can be trusted not to go in all the pubs. (TAG) can map read because he would be good at that, Major would keep us in line and exxon could plan the route. We can cry freedom from the windows at passing motorists and be happy again.
Then I woke up.
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Morning All
Some good news. It appears that the government has realised that they need to firm up the reconstruction effort behind the military objectives in Afghanistan. In particular there appears to be a softening in the stance of trying to enforce a political system on the Afghans rather than getting them to evolve their own. Of course it could be a prelude to a get out quick option.
My main concern is delivery and Lord Mandelson highlights this. We continually have a list of "wants" but often nothing or contradictory messages behind it. How does wanting more people from poorer backgrounds at uni and more innovation and business development square with the presence and increase in tuition fees and decreased funding?
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Susan
I would enjoy the idea of keeping you in line, but have found through life that it is just an illusion. Women keep men in line, even if they allocate the job to us men and then dont listen to what we say. There was never a truer expression than "She who must be obeyed".I live in constant fear of my wife, my two daughters and three granddaughters, and jump to their every command.
But I am still trying to work out what having four "generously proportioned girls" in a car has to do with inflation, unless it was about the tyres...
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78 Susan-Croft
And my position?
P.S. A new bird has thrown down the gauntlet over at Nicks.
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dorset_wuzel
Is this the same story about Douglas Alexander pledging another £250m for Afghanistan to wean them off poppies? If so, does anyone know what are our allies from Germany, France, Italy etc are pledging as well? Or are we just recycling money we have already pledged from aid as this Goernment is apt to do? The two or more bangs from one buck syndrome.
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80 majoretc
You should have been there to see how it worked Sir.
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#82
It was in reference to the Foreign Sec announcement of "talking" to Taliban moderates and the pledge of aid for reconstruction. I think this aid had already been announced / pledged and that we are the biggest "donor". To me there has been far too great an emphasis on the military campaign. By that I mean that I cannot see a military solution but could see a end through reconstructing the political structures in Afghanistan. However, this may be an Afghan version of what "we" (the west) want.
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81. At 09:35am on 27 Jul 2009, xTunbridge wrote:
P.S. A new bird has thrown down the gauntlet over at Nicks.
=
Bird?? You're showing your age.
btw She's not new, been around the blog a few times.
Wonder if she's related to the boor on TG?
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Good morning each & Andrew.
Whoo-hoo Eclipse.
There once was a young fellow plus three
Who drove to the coast just to see
The trip was a lark
To park in that dark
Such a hit with three misses was he
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P.S.
Oops, must be Monday.
The las line should read
Whoo-hoo what a hit with three...
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Here's a link to an interesting story relating directly to this blog's topic:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/26/us-healthcare-obama-barack-change
***
Dorset_wurzel
#82
The references to Northern Ireland by the government and Ashdown by way of showing their brilliant track record really is fantasy. Afghanistan is nothing like NI. Even the basic principle of negotiating from a strong military position is illusionary in this case.
***
I love this quote.
"..the failure to foresee the timing, extent and severity of the crisis and to head it off, while it had many causes, was principally a failure of the collective imagination of many bright people, both in this country and internationally, to understand the risks to the system as a whole."
LSE explanation to HRM when asked why no-one saw it (the crisis) coming.
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TAG
One of interest to you I believe from previous posts about the Great War. William Rees-Mogg in his piece today in the Times is linking his Dad's experiences with those of Harry Patch.
"What are the lessons? Do not go to war unless it is inevitable, and preferably not even then. Maintain the welfare of the poor, the sick and the old. Look after the Nation's Armed Forces. Do not ask them to fight impossible battles with inadequate equipment. Make generous provision for those mentally or physically damaged by war. Keep cynicism and aggresson out of national policy".
Susuan - he is also talking about Obama and health - you may be interested from your post last night.
If i am disjointed in the above it is bercause I have swine flu but I understand from te help line that you cannot pass it on over the internet...
G
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85TheBlameGame
My age shows itself my friend. Whats current for "bird" then? I know(think) totty (tottie) is the collective, can it be singular too?
Yeah I wondered about motormouth too.
86 Oudeis
Thank you Sir. There were four but one was married so three will do.
89Majoretc
Get well soon Sir. A girlfriend had it and was better in 3 days so it can be mild. Sent her home from work tho, a nurse.
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xTunbridge
Thank you for your thoughts. I went on to the national line to seek advice and got asked a load of questions:
Do you have a sore throat as if you have just smoked a Woodbine?
Do you get hot flushes as if you have just been travelling in your Honda Accord with four young well-endowed nubiles?
Are you feeling disorientated as if you want to go and kiss Gordon Brown for saving the world, or, worse, have you recently had the urge to buy Lloyds shares?
Are you coming out in spots or rashes so that you resemble Cyndi Laupur?
Do you have a severe headache, perhaps at the thought of wanting to kiss Gordon Brown?
Have you got something that is synonymous with what athletes do?
Does your nose resemble the Niagara Falls?
Are you coughing like you have been smoking Craven A?
I answered yes to all of them, and my wife trotted off to get the Tamiflu. What a wonderful thing our NHS. Incidentally, the girl who "interviewed" me insisted in her best irish voice that I could only get the tamiflu if I was English. Forget West Lothian - the English strike back.
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91 Major
Very droll, nice to see you keeping your spirits up. You are henceforth our Swine flu expert.
Whilst I am a big supporter of the core NHS, I have to say being interviewed by a computer would have distinct advantages over visiting my GP.
a) the computer would remember who you are.
b) the computer would not be an anti snmoking zealot [i.e no antobitics for past smokers - even if they are later found to have have pneumonia]
..and the thought of kissing GB would certainly bring on a headache.
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Meninwhitecoats
The accolades keep pouring in and each is a much appreciated as the last. PS The whisky is at the top of the wardrobe as you suggest.
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91. 92
"Have I got Swine-flu?"
"Computer says no..."
Credit: Little Britain
***
My 85.
According to Whistling over on NR, sascha is a he not a she.
Apologies to sc if that's the case.
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xTunbridge 81
Its not a bird, its a man and a teacher at that. I have answered him. The other bloggers seem to know him, I do not.
If you do not behave yourself Major will not let you go on our trip together. Hes in charge you know.
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Susan I am not in a fit state to stop anyone doing anything at the moment so you feel free to get on with your trip. Incidentally, you were right about Obama last night as far as getting on with healthcare reform is concerned. I think William Rees-mOgg also reads your blogs for he says today in the Times today "In the United States, a popular, newly elected President is having great difficulty in winning support for a national health service in a nation in which a quarter of the citizens do not have health cover".
When I was small (in the 40s) I used to watch American films and see their film stars in fitted kitchen and luxuriating in beautiful bathrooms with gold taps. We had a sink with one tap (cold) where the water splashed out. We also had a tin bath hanging outside the back door. I envied those Americans with a passion, and rather like the song "Cats in the Cradle" I used to think "I want to be like them".
Now I realise that we have always had much more than them, however much they hug the flag and profess their love for their country. We dont need to do it, but we all do love our country, and if we dont love it we go to Australia. Incidenally, I was thinking about something you said earlier about the old days. When we were small we had trunpet shaped paper bags, and selected from all those jars - it must have driven the shopkeeper crazy - er one acid drop, one dragee, one of those pink pears, how many more can I have for 1p? All the yanks had was Hershey bars....
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That should have been 1d
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For all those that thought that the MoD are uniquely incompetent please think again:
http://www.alternet.org/environment/140060/the_case_of_the_missing_h-bomb%3A_the_pentagon_has_lost_the_mother_of_all_weapons/
In 1958 the USAF lost an H bomb. A collision with another aircraft meant that landing with the bomb was risky, so the bomb was jettisoned off the coast of Georgia. And when the search teams went in... they could not find it!
At the time there was the usual cover up, but I guess that is the difference between the UK and the US. Here the D notices would be everlasting and us peasants would be none the wiser, but in the US the people did get to know. But given all the technology available, it is surprising that it has not been found - maybe someone nicked it.
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Could this happen in the UK, you bet your life it can (has done).
Upon reading Shelley A. Stark's, Hidden Treuhand: How Corporations and Individuals Hide Assets and Money, my first response was of shock and disbelief. Then the anger and outrage emerged. It is clear Shelly Stark is a courageous Whistleblower. She has dared to expose an organized and secret system of hiding money and assets that has been going on for a long period of history but, that few average people know exists.
What Ms. Stark is writing about has been a very closely guarded secret prior to now. Due to becoming aware of the Hidden Treuhand, because of being victimized by its use on her by some business partners, Ms. Stark started what turned out to be five years of hard investigation and research to find out what had happened to her business partnership. It was not an easily solved mystery. Fortuitously, Ms. Stark has the economic education, training, intellect, and courage to have tackled this previously secret strategy, which large corporations and wealthy individuals have known about and had access to utilize in the shadows of our economic world for a long time. Her work required copious amounts of research into the history of the practice of Treuhands, hidden or not, and translating masses of German/Austrian law records to get an historical perspective and meaningful understanding of its contemporary impact on our financial lives.
In her book, Stark explains that this type of financial and legal strategy is not legal in the U.S., but is legal in certain countries in Europe (Austria, Lichtenstein, Switzerland) and is spreading to other regions (Dubai) making it possible for a lot of manipulation and corrupt dealings to take place, with the public having no inkling it is happening to their money and assets. She explains how it is possible for a corporation or certain officers of a corporation to hide money, assets, and even people and other money payoffs to people using these Hidden Treuhands, potentially keeping the Hidden Treuhand and everything put into it, secret even from their own board of directors.
It appears that using a Hidden Treuhand, Corporations and the wealthy can now thwart any current U.S. government oversight activity, including laws or federal policies. (Think about former Vice President, Dick Cheney and his conflict of interest in and financial benefits from Halliburton. How was he able to evade accountability to even current federal laws regarding conflict of interest, quid pro quo, and revolving door prohibitions? Halliburton coincidentally has moved its headquarters recently to Dubai. Perhaps, now we know why.)
Recently an article in the Washington Post presented the concept of a new proposed Financial Protection Agency. If the U.S. Government is going to tackle protecting Americans' financial matters, they will have to include the problem of Hidden Treuhand, for what are becoming increasingly obvious reasons. The corrupt and unethical business practices are not just an isolated American problem, but expand across the globe.
Due to the complicated financial dealings leading to our recent financial meltdown of the "Too Big to Fails" our pensions and 401 K's are already at risk. Think about Madoff and the huge sums he stole from the retirement accounts of Americans either directly or indirectly. If Madoff used a Hidden Treuhand, there is little hope all those millions of dollars will ever be openly discovered and identified, let alone recovered.
I don't know about you, but the possibility of my retirement funds being siphoned off and shuffled around in secret hidden corporate accounts that no one can see or audit and that I will never see again is enough to get me writing letters and demanding change. For anyone concerned about the safety and security of American consumers and their financial affairs, this book is a must read! In fact, this book should immediately be required reading for all U.S. Federal Oversight authorities too.
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95 Susan-Croft.
Oops, assumed it was a girly. Dont know why, I mean Shirley Crabtree , Marion Morrison and all that.( Big Daddy & John Wayne).
I am not alone in my assumption thank goodness.
All my life people have told me to behave, why?
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Just been announced that two more soldiers have died in Afghanistan (1 of whom died in Helmond), plus 1 on Saturday, which makes over 190 for the whole campaign. Meanwhile, it appears from the MOD spokesperson that the area we have managed to clear is about the size of the Isle of Wight. I dont know what that means in terms of the geography of Afghanistan, but I do know the Isle of Wight because my Dad was born there, and it is not very big.
While this is clearly the continuation of the disaster that some on this board have been saying for some time I hope that for the sake of the families of those dead and those who will inevitably die before we come out that there is some purpose to it all. If the Taleban just simply go back in when we go that will be a real disaster not just for the country but for us if Al Quaeda also return with the Taleban. But can we really keep them out in the long run? I wouldnt like to be in Brown's shoes right now.
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Major
I know some people want us to withdraw from Afghanistan, whilst I have deep reservations as to the clarity of our mission, I could not condone a cut and run policy that left the Afghanis open to reprisals.
I am sure the fear that we will not see this through is part of the reason we are not making better progress.
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#102
It's reprisals to a degree or it's total control: 'truth & reconciliation' is more of a process than an event.
Reprisals are a part of life in (our) Iraq.
There is no decernable aim in Afghanistan ergo no end to achieve no progress to be made.
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...Afghan could easily end in ignominy.
I cannot see that we have a right to expect a new 'friendly' Aghanistan to do all that we might wish...just so long as the pipeline is secure.
It's people first all the time...leaving you to think Afghans are meant but it is not so. We, in an economic social sense, come first, it is our needs that are paramount. Well as long as we agree with our polititians, that is.
We, the same 'we'. i.e. you and me. Cannot, I trust, agree that once an assault/invasion is begun it MUST win at all costs.
People have to be left to sort some things out themselves. This applies to us and to them. We have to sort a great deal about our way of life. We, hopefully, have control over the way we live. How can it be a good beginning to rob others of this option, only to promise them 'pie-in-the-sky?
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...This whole Afghan thing comes down to ...
What do we have that they want?
Democracy is only the answer if we mean 'want' as in lack and even then they must first see some advantage in Democracy.
If only their view of our democracy in action were such as to tempt them.
The trouble here is that Iraq and Afghanistan each appear to have more democratic choice that we do.
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...if only we could slough off the current politicos from parliament...
That's enough from me.
Good mornig each & Andrew.
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Good Morning Andrew,
yesterday I was in a Registrars office to order some copies of birth certificates. Whilst I was waiting two people came in for a meeting. It was the National Swine Flu Meeting. I think that the powers that be are very concerned.
If there is a large number of deaths how will the government cope with the deaths, will the registrars departments be able to cope. Will death certificates be issued. Remember there are some religions which insist that their dead are buried within as little as a day. So, if these religions have precedence then will the dead of other religions have to wait before death certificates are issued, and will burials be able to take place before death certificates are issued.
I think that we must be told now of any contingency arrangements for the issuing of death certificates. How is the system going to cope with the many different religious practices. Will 2009 be a repeat of 1979 with the dead being left unburied, Brown, be afraid very afraid. The truth is out there.
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#88
I do have my own blog on the Open University and also used to contribute to the Nick robinson blog.
This is a copy of a comment I made on the 15th Septemeber 2008, the that Lehmans died:
'Merrill Lynch as well, and AIG. I mean it is so brilliant to listen to people coming onto the radio and give us their expert knowledge. I mean they are so expert that they have not seen this coming, or if they did they remained silent, which is actually even worse.
If people who knew stayed silent so as not to spread doom and despondency then they are guilty of negligence. This is an appalling state of affairs, and this time the Great Depression will be a truly global one. Just as the Great War was really a European Civil War, including Europeans who had influence in America, which resulted in WWII, then the Great Depression was basically the same. This will be the equivalent of WWII, and when India and China join in then this is going to be cataclysmic, our own little Armageddon'.
Now I had also been writing in my local newspaper for quite some time about the impending financial implosion. So, I would say to her Majesty that if only more people had read either my blog or my local newspaper then they would have seen it coming from an awful long way away. What I will say is that sometimes we really must ask more of the so called experts, experts who in so many fields have let down the people.
It is similar to all those chairs of various committees who come on to our media after years of taking the money that nobody has listened and that the government has failed in its duty. They were happy to take the money and we have to ask what have they achieved.
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Now that the first phase of Panther's Claw has been completed the next phase of retaining the captured territory begins. Britain's forces do not have a good track record in Afghanistan in this type of warfare mostly due to lack of boots on the ground and helicopter support.
I fear the lack of helicopters in supplying the troops in these remote areas with food, water and other supplies will be costly. The Talebs are not stupid and will be able to figure out the likely routes from Camp Bastien to where the troops are camped and place numerous IEDs at will. The real difficulty is that the Taleban do not wear uniforms - their garb is identical to the local farmers. There are lots of farmers as Helmand is ideal farming country.
As for Miliband pontificating about the need to start talks with moderate Taliban, what has stopped him before? On another blog someone wrote: "Define moderate Taleban".
I'd say: "A militant Taleban on holiday"!
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MOD to hang their heads in shame.
The MOD go to the High Court of Appeal today to get a reduction in the amount of compensation paid to injured service personnel injured in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Well done the MOD, another fine example of their caring attitude towards our fighting men&women.
I think it is about time we tranfered some of the MOD into the front line??!!
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#110
Further...
If only we had these MOD bods checking on the expenses of MP's Councilors etc.
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Zimbawee Channel 4 last night.
The "Dispatches" Prog on Channel 4 should be sending alarm bells ringing thru Westminster, oh,I forgot,they are on holiday for 12 weeks.
The prog was very disturbing and I think the government should be looking into the prog allegations of British Connections to the ulawful actions by President Mugabbee and his fixers,especially one Billy Rautenbach.
It's just not cricket and are former English Cricketers(no names no pack drill)exploiting their sports credentials to support murder,genocide, theft etc.
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Andrew,
there is the court case taking place today in respect of the injuries to two soldiers and their compensation for injuries. May I suggest that people who are interested look at the web site for the Plymouth Evening Herald.
There is the case of Marine Neil Dunstan where the Ministry of Defence apparently had lost the most recent will of the dead soldier which meant that his fiancee would lose her inheritance because the only will found was one relating to 2004 which did not name her. Furthermore, a vicar apparently said that she could not walk behind the coffin because she could not prove to be 'next of kin'.
Just what is going on. We have had cases in the past where the loved ones of soldiers have had to go to court to prove that the child they are bearing or have had is the result of a loving current relationship with a soldier in order that they have access to the compensation to which they are entitled.
The current High Court cases only go to show how the MoD is working against the interests of the brave soldiers who have to take orders from politicians who should really be ashamed of themselves, including the Prime Minister who has gone missing again. It is not only the physical injury done to our soldiers, it is more the long term damage of stress disorders which will cause problems. The MoD are letting down our military. They must meet their commitments, if they are to send our soldiers to their deaths over a lost mission then they must say that if they are willing to meet the true costs, and the ongoing costs.
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TAG 107 re my 91
You have cheered me up a lot
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Andrew,
I have a problem with regard to the equipment which we took to Iraq after the war and during the occupation. How much has actually been spent on equipment which we have left behind or handed to the Iraq forces, either police or army. I hope that as our soldiers in Afghanistan suffer from shortage of some equipment I hope sincerely that we have not spent vast sums of money on arming the Iraqi forces, and that we are now going to do the same with the Afghans. Are we arming our enemy as we did with the militais in Iraq.
Furthermore, as the Americans begin to withdraw from Iraq how are they going to achieve it without taking on huge losses from the very same IEDs which we now have encountered in Afghanistan. After all the freedom fighters do talk to each other.
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Tories have been in power in Exeter for a couple of months now and my email ban is STILL in place.
The lifetime ban was imposed upon me by the Devon County and Exeter City Council because I am asking TOO many questions about taxpayers money.
The Exeter Tory wannabee candidate appears to be about as much use as Bradshaw??
Time will tell.
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XEXXONMOBIL
I saw Simon Weston on TV this morning making the very point you and others have made. Not only is he very brave and eloquent (I am sure few people could have faced the world in the manner he has after such a nightmare), but he helps to put the Ministers and Civil Servants who are perpetrating this outrage to shame by the power of his arguments.
He suggests, among many other pertinent points, that when you look at support groups there is great value to be achieved from having ones that are specially targetted, so that servicemen and women go through the same specialised counselling and care facilities together. At the moment they get that while they are still in the MOD system but when they leave they are thrown out on to the NHS - nothing wrong with the NHS as the improvements to Simon's own face would bear testment but it cannot cope already without having to look for specialised treatment for specialised groups like severely physically and mentally injured soldiers.
You could fill a book with issues like this, which are easily passed off as own goals by the Government, but are much more sinister than that. These people give all the impression of not caring, particularly when they are asked to compare the sums they are contesting with the 400k? or so awarded to a secretary for RSI. I hope the MOD lose today, and continue to lose whenever they seek to treat our soldiers like canon fodder. The alternative might be to make it a condition of service in the MOD that such civil servants are automatically required to be members of the TA as a condition of their service, and therefore available to serve in any campaign or area as the TA already are. That would sharpen up their ideas about fairness.
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#109
A moderate Taleban?
Our occupation could be doing good.
Doing good in uniting the Afghans.
So that now (soon) we could offer them something that they all want; they all want 'rid'.
We offer to go; we support election candidates rather than the status-quo 'preferred' war-lords.
We support their new parliament; we shower them with gifts, reconstruction projects get off the ground.
They are allowed the view that to live in peace is possible...they realise that housing Al-Qieda (Sp?) is counter productive to this new life of peace. Our boys come home the pipeline is laid...all is well.
A moderate Taleban is then a freedom fighter that has won their freedom has won the respect of their own people and the respect of we in the west.
The only danger with this is that the Afghans will/may end up with their own idea of democracy as opposed to our idea of compliant underdog regime.
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Andrew,
the first thing which the British government did after WWI was to disarm the returning soldiers. They saw the revolutions in Russia and Germany as well as other states and were terrified by the armies which knew that they had been nothing other than cannon fodder, and that some people at home at got very rich on the back of the war.
So, first disarmament and then the other method of control, the Royal British Legion. The soldiers should have shouted from the rooftops what had been allowed to happen. For example take the Army List which I have been studying. Why is that during WWI they listed the names and ranks of all those soldeirs who had een killed. Only yrouble is that they never went below the rank of Second Lieutenant. Where is Gordon Brown reading out all the names of the dead, where is he, oh that's right he deserves a holiday with his family. Only trouble is that the loved ones of the soldiers who have been sent to their deaths by the politicians won't be having much of a holiday. They dare not even spend some of their compensation for fear that the wonderful MoD will at some time say that you have been overpaid and we want our money back.
I think that there is a certain amount of jealousy at the MoD, where many retired officers now work, because the squaddies seem to be getting compensation which is denied to the officers. Officers after all are not meant to suffer from PTSD because they are made of sterner stuff!
May I suggest that people look at what happened in America after the Great War with regard to their veterans, where there was massive fraud.
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I see that the revolting, stinking greedy MPs have upped their subsistence pay by 25 pct! Their daily allowance to buy food has risen to GBP 500.
The annual equivalent is GBP 9,000 tax free of course. Now we can understand better why the MoD is trying to claw back money from disabled servicemen's claims.
Utterly disgusting.
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Oudeis 118
I thought you were describing Jomo Kenyatta there for one moment.
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Andrew,
at the moment the RPI is in negative territory. Now we know from the evidence that costs for pensioners are actually more than they are for some other groups of society. We need to be told now, I repeat now, what will happen when the MPs return from their long recess what they propose to do about pensions in the event that the RPI stays below zero. Mind you with the PM saying that zero is an increase then he is preparing us for a zero percent rise.
I suppose that we ought to be glad that pensions will not be reduced. As for the idea that in future pensions will be linked to wages then just look at what is happening to wage rates as the recession gets deeper, despite the stock exchange rises. It will fall you know, this is just like 1928/29 all over again. The stock market in America was in dire straights in 1928, it was baled out, the same today the market has been baled out by quantitaive easing, only soon the money will be gone and what will there be to show for it.
Consider this, if the stock market is rising then somebody has to be selling to meet the needs of the purchasers. So, why would you sell if you thought that the market was going to rise, you must expect a fall otherwise you would stay in the market. Look at what you Local Authority is doing with their pension fund assets, they are investing, they always do things at the wrong time, it doesn't matter if they lose money on their investments because the taxpayer will pick-up any shortfall.
Hold on to our hats. By the way this should not be taken as the views of an expert but purely and solely the musings of an iterested bystander, this is not financial advice and should not be seen as such...all the usual disclaimers.
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#121
I had to look him up...not a bad option for the future of Afghanistan.
Pensions.
Some people have more BECAUSE others have less.
Why not guarantee all pensions?
My betters can then have a little more than poor 'ol me and then I could have a fair bit more than I am currently due.
Pensioners spending power reminds me of a(nother) song.
"Sixteen tons and what do you get..."
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Andrew,
just listened to Radio 5 Live and the retired General Sir Mike Jackson who complained that he had been refused compensation for ear damage. In the meantime would the good General like to tell us how much he actually receives in pension from his service to the country, and furthermore, does he or does he not work as a director/adviser to a company which supplies contractors in war zones. Just a simple question which I do not expect an answer to.
There are cases where soldiers leave the army, join the contracting firms , then get injured and though the MoD is the commissioning agency, there is no liability to provide compensation. I notice that yet again Jackson refers to a review, why must we always wait until a review, again one which will not convene until so close to the general election which must be held by June next year! Mustn't it?
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118. Oudeis
"A moderate Taleban is then a freedom fighter that has won their freedom has won the respect of their own people and the respect of we in the west."
An optimistic scenario. There still remains the complexities of their religious dogma, surely a problem that is not going to go away?
119. T A Griffin (TAG)
TAG, I think if Brown & co were forced to read out the names of ALL the dead, Afghani civilians included, that may give them pause for thought.
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Hi Andrew
Your right too say that all but the neo-cons of the British political system get upset when our beloved NHS is condemned abroad It's very rare that our 'free at the point of delivery' NHS let's patients, no matter what their income down.
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Andrew,
I do so love the BBC, first they have Jackson on Radio 5 Live saying how he was turned down for compensation for damage to his hearing. Then they interview Simon Weston who says that he gets GBP10,000 per annum compensation for his injuries. Then they interview another person who served years ago and gets GBP30,000 a year in compensation because he suffered concussion. Now I'm sorry but there does some to be some sort of problem. For example, let us say that you suffer from PTSD after being involved in an accident.
In the meantime it would appear that former typists get hundreds of thousands of pounds for RSI. As for the women who got hundreds of thousands of pounds for getting pregnant, what has happened to them, are women in the army no longer falling pregnant, or suffering harassment.
You claim on the insurance and they pay you. Over time the images start to disappear and you get on with life, you no longer suffer PTSD, so rather than lump sum payments should monthly payments be made, and that if your condition improves then those payments must be reduced. They must be under constant review.
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#125
TheBlameGame
Why not let Karma sort out Dogma, as in...
"My karma ran over my Dogma."
How else can we greet each day but with optimism?
It is part of my creed that the only 'reality' is the one you experience personally. All else is message. With the interplay of our 'optimism' engendering 'pessimism' in the enemy.
For instance I had some empathy for Iraqis watching the same news reports as I prior to the invasion to this extent the bombs that dropped on Iraqis fell on me too, have I survived where they did not? I am not sure that I did, not that me that was before anyway.
For Afghanis as for each of us freedom carries with it 'pain' but should go some way to lessen 'fear'.
Pain is a definite sign of life; fear is only a living death.
Madge @ 121
The 'president for life' side of things.
Is this not what NuL and Brown wish for, with their 'Just vote for me and all will be well'. After the election and after the reviews the Sun will shine.
Power corrupts...on some sliding scale.
Sol-fa so bad.
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128. Oudeis wrote
"It is part of my creed that the only 'reality' is the one you experience personally."
I agree. But the reality the average Afghani experiences is very different to yours or mine. If they are neither Terry Taliban nor Marty Mujahid then it's a rough ride they face.
It's easier to survive your 'figurative' bombs than it is the real ones.
(If I interpreted your point correctly)
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129 TheBlameGame
May I take your second point first?
The old me did die with these bombs, that's for sure.
For my parents, their parents and for me up until those bombs rained down 'our' Britain was a defender of right against might.
Now, at BEST, we are back with our old imperial selves..killing and invading for profit. Not even for the greater good mind you, simply to shore up our way of life, to maintain our betters in the manner to which they became accustomed.
To reconcile in my own mind what is happening I posture that we lost WWII. Lost in the same way an amateur who wins The Open loses, he gets the medal but not the payout.
Why! We have 'the bomb' why should we not rule the world?
The clincher that puts the blood of these Iraqis and Afghanis on my hands is because I am a democrat; 'we' re-elected TB & NuL. A sign of approval that put the icing on the UK cake, the cherry will come in 2012.
"That me is dead; long live me."
"a rough ride they face"
Life there is tough, life is tough there.
Why does life here seem less tough? And how can we work that trick for other peoples?
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Andrew,
the Iraqi government has not renewed the agreement for British troops to remain in Iraq, so we have been thrown out. This is shameful. we now know that all those lives and injuries have been a complete and utter, total waste of time. So much for leaving with honour.
We have been involved in extra-ordinary rendition; we have been involved in enhanced interrogation techniques; we have been involved in what many regard as being an illegal war, our occupation has been a disaster and now this.
Brown promised an inquiry as soon as the our soldiers have left. Well now they are all gone. The inquiry must start immediately, the lessons must be learnt now, before more of our men and women are lost in Afghanistan. The same will happen, we will leave with our tails between our legs. When is the parade for the Iraq boys going to be held Brown, surely that has not slipped your memory.
I do have a petition on the Number 10 web site deamnding an Iraq inquiry and now an Afghanistan inquiry. There are 34 people who have signed for the Iraq inquiry and so far one other for Afghanistan. I think that both will grow the more the truth of our abject failure in both theatres becomes apparent. Harry Patch was right 'war is murder'.
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An interesting article in Al Jazeera about the Taleban issuing a code of conduct, but also trying to consolidate all the disparate groups that operate pretty much autonomously. Some of the fringe groups are plain criminals, kidnapping journalists and holding them to ransom etc.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/07/20097278348124813.html
They also talk about winning hearts and minds of the local population. I am not sure if the UK government will be flattered or angry that they have stolen a Nu labour slogan!
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At the risk of becoming too pretentious, many of us live with the guilt that comes with knowing we can do more, should have done more, to right the injustices and inequalities that exist all over the world. We may not think about it constantly, but when we do it reminds us of who is more free.
Us, in our Western 'democracies', or those who endure the hardships.
Sermon over.
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I am sorry to be parochial but there was a lot of debate about broadband speeds today. They recommended Speedtest.net to assess your broadbandspeed. When I tried it was just a sales pitch for a booster. Does anyone have any better solution please?
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Blamegame
Quite right. We get so wrapped up in who has got what at whose expense that we forget to appreciate our essential freedoms.
That is why we should oppose all attempts by government to restrict us further.
Ironic a labour goverment has been resposnible to eroding our freedom.
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#134
http://www.myspeedtestonline.com/?gclid=CNfnhIfZ-JsCFZ4A4wodMSBR_g
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There was a telling comment in answer to The Times debate yesterday, which may be an old one but was new to me:
The debate was "are injured soldeirs paid too much in compensation?"
One answer was:
"In the United States combat veterans will tell you that being severely wounded will get you a Purple Heart and a park bench to sleep on".
Another one was
"past govenments have done this too. Remember the Spanish Armada where plucky English sailors repelled the invasion? After the battle those who made it back home were paid wages, but most didnt make it back. Not because of the Spanish, but because they ran out of supplies, and no help was forthcoming from England"
I learn so much on here, as I do from reading the Times.
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135. meninwhitecoats
You're right in that sense.
I was also referring to the spiritual freedom that comes from living one's life without preconceptions and imposing a way of living on others, be it democracy or some '-ism'.
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Oudeis Thanks for that. I got three different readings within twenty minutes, giving me 2200, 2328 up to a best of 2565.
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#134
Try the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7416471.stm134
but will it be the truth.
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Ref 117 Major
Yes indeed and furthermore the MOD have just made serious cost cutback on the two Aircraft carriers by reducing the steel thickness of the hulls??!! That being the case why not build them in wood??!!
The decisons by these clowns beggars belief.
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XEXXONMOBIL
It was ever thus as far as profligacy was concerned. In the 60s I was attached to the fly-out Brigade based in Kenya when the army mutinies took place. The country was about to get independence (Uhuru), Zanzibar was imploding, and the whole East African "adventure" was coming to an end. The MOD went on gaily building a new camp ten miles outside of Nairobi (Kahawa). Even as we were being chucked out they were still finishing the building. Still it was worthwhile to the locals, who did their washing in our swimming pool (what else would you use it for?). The MOD, in its wisdom sent the Brigade to Aden, where the local version of the Taleban (FLOSY) was making noises. The MOD built a brand new camp at Bir Fuqum (you couldnt make up a name like that and be taken seriously)married quarters and all. After a quick realisation that Aden wasnt worth defending we were thrown out again.
About that time someone invented salami slicing, and took up to ten per cent off the budget. They prophesied the end of the world. Everything went on as normal so the next year they took another ten per cent or so off. Again no problem. It may be that salami slicing is what Cameron has in mind. Two or three years of that and we might be looking up a bit. Sorry to go on.
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OFFICIAL COMPLAINT AGAINST THE FOI COMMISSIONER (FOIC)
I lodged a formal complaint with the FOIC today in the manner which they have handled my complaint against the Devon County Council.
I am not satisfied the FOIC has acted in accordance with their own policies and procedures for handling FOI Complaints.
I have requested some data for one of the 6 PFI schools in Exeter and some 12 weeks later I am nowhere further on with my request.
I understand the Devon County Council have advised the FOI that the information which I have requested is not available electronically,i.e Electronic Record Management Database Systems (ERMDS) thus will cost more than the Government Ceiling of £450 which is absurd.
The Statutory FOI 2000 Act requires local and central governments to maintain the ERMDS,hence, that could be why the FOI are dragging their heels.
I will keep you posted.
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#141
Perhaps these carriers are only to act as air strips so that mountain peasants can be bombed more easily; they are hardly in danger from pocket-battleships or destroyers.
There is enough hull thickness with the erstwhile deputy PM.
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Good Evening Andrew,
may I suggest that if you can get hold of a copy of the Newsnight broadcast tonight. It was fronted by Nick Robinson and the gem was the interview with with Lord 'now I will use my words' Mandleson. The word 'cuts' never passed his lips once, not once. It was like listening to a Thesaurus, absolutely brilliant, beyond parody, no this is really important and you must let me make my point, as I shift my eyes from one side to other whilst thinking does this make me look shifty. Of course not, as for the piece from the parliamentary select committee on something or other, again worth repeating, 'are you Browns Willie?' I smile broadly as I think of extending the metaphor.
As we get closer to the election I begin to think to myself, do the politicians have any concept of the word 'truth' apart from the fact that is it not that wonderful Russian publication 'Pravda', yes the truth, sad days, very sad days.
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blame @ 133
many of us live with the guilt that comes with knowing we can do more
that chimes - my big "problem" (nothing compared to most, I know) is I can't find a tranquil equilibrium - for example, I've been both rich and poor (am neither now) and what I find is, when I'm rich I'm consumed with angst about having way more than I deserve, and when I'm poor I get eaten up by bitterness at the thought of everything I haven't got - only time I'm happy is when I don't think at all
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Ref 145 TA Griffin
Tag, the MP's are unable to understand the word the TRUTH and we need to introduce Lie detectors on a weekly basis in the House of Commons.
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142 Major
You are familar with MOD cockups going back a lot further in time, it make me very sad that the MOD AND MP's have scant regard for our armed forces.
144 Oudies.
Maybe so but to reduce steel hull thickness solely as a money saver beggars belief.
One of these days we are going to get seriously roasted as a result of corrutpion,lies and deceipt by our leaders and the MOD.
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A copy of my email to David Cameron.
_________________________________________________________________________
Attn Mr David Cameron .Leader of the Conservative Party.
Dear Mr Cameron
Approx 2 months ago I had a meeting with your Prospective MP for Exeter Hanna Foster to discuss some problematic issues with local government here in Exeter.
One of the biggest problems I have, is a lifetime email ban placed upon me by the Lib Dems some 5 years ago,hence, I am unable to contact local government officials in Exeter.
I would have envisaged that the Tory Candiate for Exeter would have been able to get this email ban removed before now.
The other issue which is causing me major concerns are the 6 PFI schools which are unfit for purpose and have been operating in a legal void for several years now.
Quite frankly,I don't think your Candidate is taking me or the issues I raised seriously, if she was, she would have contacted me before now with an update or to ask further questions.
Quite frankly,I think Hannah Foster has adopted the ostrich stance and decided to ignore me or hope I just go away. Indeed, your Mrs Foster did admit at our meeting that she subscribed to the "no comment" and "no correspondence" in her employment role on the Devon Health Authority, when addressing claims or complaints from the General Public.
Forgive me for thinking the Tory Policy and your own policies were for more transparency and honesty by Tory MP's.
I am surprised and disappointed at the attitude of your Tory MP Wannabe here in Exeter and I can assure you unless she pulls her finger out and has the decency to answer my emails,she will NOT be getting my vote come the general election.
As leader of the Opposition,you need to ensure your subordinate MP's or prospective MP's are ACTIVE in opposition.
Exxonmobil
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Ref my 149
I wish to applaud the MODS for their prompt action on my posting which went thru the MODS faster than Epsom Salts would have done??!!It took a matter of only 3-4 mins to receive approval and posting??!!
Many thanks
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The expenses debacle has taken a back seat and I don't thnk we should take our eyes off the ball and I note the MP's are conspiring and colluding for yet further skullduggery.In particular,I refer to the "New Rules" drawn up in secret recently by an all party committee.
Sack the bloody lot of them.
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I have received a letter from the Devon County Council (DCC) in response to my formal complaint alleging "wrongdoing" by the DCC in respect of the 6 PFI schools and they have suggested I take up the matter with the Local Government Ombudsman (LGO),
from previos experience,I know the LGO is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
DCC and other local government purport the highest standards of transparency and accountability but when actually challenged, they refuse point blank to investigate my claims.Transparency and accountability MUST be seen to be working??!!
And just to give the readers some idea what I am up against on the PFI schools, is that 300million pounds has been spent on 6 PFI schools WITHOUT a Project Agreement.
If the DCC want me to take them seriously, they would have invited me into their office to discuss in depth my allegations of wrongdoing and the BIG F word (mods get twitchy) but no.
Bradshaw has done nothing, the Tory wannabe is not interested and NEITHER one of them has seen or heard of the Project Agreements.
The Serious Fraud Office don't want to know, it's looking like a dead end or blocked road ahead??!!
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Andrew
Vince Cable has again called for the breakup of Lloyds. I have no idea why people pay such attention to this man, who in my view is a one-trick-pony who said something right about two years ago and who ever since has spouted his financial opinions which the media laps up like they had been brought down from the mountain.
We (you and me) own 43% of Lloyds - we are not as Cable frequently says majority shareholders but that doesnt matter. We got this shareholding because of a deal between MR Brown and Sir Victor Blank that saved the Government's face from the collapse of HBOS, and which in the process broke all known rules on competition. I dont think Cable said anything about that at the time (nor did the EU Competition Authorities, who could have stopped it before it happened). The deal was allowed to go through. The Government got as much as 43% because LLoyds and the Government stupidly pitched a rights issue at 1.73 when the shares were trading at just over one pound. We got 43% because the Chancellor (and presumably Vince Cable by his silence on the matter) did not understand how rights issues work. None of the other shareholders took up the rights.
LLoyds now sits on a portfolio of Bank of Scotland, Halifax, Birmingham Midshires, Cheltenham and Gloucester, Scottish Widows, numerous other insurance assets and the Black Horse.
The best way in which public money can be protected, and even enhanced, is for Lloyds to be given time to sort out what it has, merge where necessary, smarten up and sell off what does not fit, all within a framework agreed belatedly with the Competition authorities, who were by-passed by Mr Brown and presumably Lord Snooty when the deal went through.
I would set out a five year period for this, which will give plenty of time for the market to improve, for the books of Lloyds to be cleaned, and for an orderly sell-off to take place where full market value can be obtained. Good for the shareholders of Lloyds, good for the "rescued" shareeholders of HBOS, and especially good for the taxpayer.
I believe Vince Cable equals breakup now, at firesale prices, and his ideas should be resisted at all cost. After all, he comes from the same stable of those in the Liberal Party who told us that if we elected them they would put an extra one billion into health to save the NHS. How many billions was that short of reality?
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Andrew,
has anybody else noticed that the last british soldiers have had to leave Iraq and are now in Kuwait. And so it ended. Why did the people of Wootton Bassett not be shown 'welcoming' back the dead soldiers from Iraq, because the government did not want a fuss. They are the same dead soldiers who followed orders and who did what they were told. Were they any different to those coming back from Afghanistan.
Which Prime Minister is reading out the names of the dead. As it is Wednesday there should have been PMQs. As for the contracting security guards why no government minister making an announcement. What are the government doing about the possible last survivor, the last hostage.
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Andrew,
your friends (?) at Sky seem to have picked up on some colourful language used by DC
http://blogs.news.sky.com/boultonandco/Post:6cd3e8bb-1044-483b-a533-ebde2f6520c9
Do you twitter a lot?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Andrew
Regarding free health care in the USA, I remember reading in the Sunday Times Magazine quite a few months ago about one Stan Brock (a British citizen from Preston Lancs) who founded Remote Area Medical Volunteer Corps (RAM) with the original intention, of providing free healthcare for the Third World. Some website links:
http://merliannews.com/People_36/The_Remote_Area_Medical_RAM_Volunteer_Corps.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7420744.stm
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/ariel_leve/article6015125.ece
However, in recent years RAM has provided free healthcare in the state of Tennessee. People travel for miles from all over the US when a camp weekend is being staged. Volunteer mediocal staff are able to practice their skills free of charge as Tennesee is one of the few states in the union where licensing laws allows health professionals based in other states to practice.
He is also thinking of expanding the mission brief to include the UK:
He is also seriously thinking of returning to Britain - with a team of RAM volunteers.
He has heard his old country has a shortage of NHS dentists.
"I am sure we'll get just as large a crowd as we're getting here in the US," he says.
Not exactly music to the ears of the Nu lab apparatchik!
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152 exxonmobil
Around now the accounts for the Council should be open and you can examine all book, receipts, accounts etc and make copies of them.
If you are not happy with anything you can inform the councuild auditors who must investigate and you can also object when the "rate" (council tax level is fixed that it is unlawful because it contains ilegal expenditure.
Whilst looking at your pet projects ask to see the accounts for alcohol purchases for whatever you call the Mayors parlour down there. That makes em twitchy.
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152 exxonmobil
Just had a look at the DCC site and the one entitled , "statement of accounts" gives you all the detail on your rights except for the dates the books and contracts etc are open for your inspection. The notice has to be published in at least one local paper. Most put it on the net as well but I cant find DCCs.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#160
Those contact details are for Exeter City Council.
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160/161 Oudeis
A bit of bizarre moderation there eh?
They pull the main one and pass the explanatory one ???????????????
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#162
xT. I am not having the best day; here anyway. :)
It was only the phone number of one Ms B Steer.
Oh well.
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I don't know if any of you guys read the Robert Peston blog but, today, he makes the case that the Credit Crunch was caused, more than any other single factor, by MEN - in other words, what we should try and engineer, if we're serious about a "better way", is far more women in the top jobs - I reckon that idea ... Susan and Patricia notwithstanding ... has an awful lot going for it
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164. At 11:41pm on 29 Jul 2009, sagamix wrote:
I don't know if any of you guys read the Robert Peston blog but, today, he makes the case that the Credit Crunch was caused, more than any other single factor, by MEN
The kind of devastating investigative reporting, combined with insightful interpretation of events, that I have come to appreciate only the BBC can and sees fit to deliver.
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saga 164
Yes I have read this piece by Peston and it is just circumstantial evidence to support a theory. The majority of the "players" were men but also white and over 50. Should we ban all over 50s from top jobs? Your argument for a more "female-like" society does have weight but it is the societal system that needs changing. More women will rise to these positions over time but I am afraid they will simply be clones of the current male holders, ergo no change. The current system supports and rewards risk-taking and greed. I am neither ambitious, greedy or a risk-taker - does that make me a woman?
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Ref 158 & 159 XTunbridge
Many thanks XT and I will call over there later this morning and make a request to see the accounts.
I will also put a letter of complaint this morning that their accounts are illegal . I will also ask to see the mayor Expediture. Nice one XT and I do appreciate your help..
Ref 161 Ouies
Thanks for that also,I will also seek the same info from the Exeter City Council.
I am sure TAG will be down at the local council offices seeking the same information.
Thanks
guys.
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LOCAL GOVERNMENT AUDITS
Ref XT 158-159
I don't know how the Devon County Council have managed to balance their books or even get their books audited because they have spent 300million pounds on 6 PFI schools which do NOT(repeat NOT) have any Project Agreement.
I think I will need to trawl their books for the past5-6 years.
Damn good job I am on gardening leave??!!
This raise the issue of Audit Failures now AS WELL.
Nice one XT
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The Tory Prospective MP thinks I am treating her too harsly and she is overworked, oh bless her little cotton socks.If its too hot in the kitchen she had better leave because believe me, it's going to get a lot hotter.
This is her pathetic response to me .Suffice to say ,I have advised her to start kicking doors down at local government if she want me to take her seriously.
________________________________________________________________________
Sorry for not updating you - I am afraid I have had a bit of a bug and not been operating one full cylinders.
I am sorry you feel that you are being very harsh below -
I have taken your issues seriously, I have had various discussions on the issues you raise and indeed have a meeting today - to get some reports back.
xxxxxx - you have sent me 30 odd emails in the last few weeks. Please bear in mind I have no administrative support and I have to hold down a job as well as do all the political work which is completely voluntary. I receive around 100 emails each day.
I hoped and believed that following our meeting and my emails that you appreciated that there would not be instant answers that I would look into the issues (which I am doing) and give me some space to do so. You are not giving me that space, and emails such as below do not help me or you.
If you are worried that I am not doing anything please just drop me an email to check how it is going.
I am expecting some information this week - which I will pass on.
Thanks
Hannah Foster
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164 Saga
There have been notable female fund managers but whilst women can succeed the environment is aggressively male orientated and gung ho.
A normal well adjusted female, the sort who would bring maturity and common sense to proceedings, is likely to find the whole environment unwelcoming.
It would appear that the financial sector has learnt little from the events of the last year and will do everything it can to twist the new regulations to its own advantage, so that they can return to their champagne swilling ways.
Whilst it is true the banking sector generates huge tax revenues in the good times, the huge rewards are enjoyed by just a few and the frontline staff are the ones to pay the price for their misdemeanours.
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One of my ex-clients was a brokerage. Their trading floor was very male dominated and their executive exclusively male. At that time they were looking to increase their female representation, but it had nothing to do with bringing more common sense to their operation, just looking for clones in skirts. The environment is all about adrenaline fueled risk. And there plenty of women who would enjoy that environment.
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#171
I used to work for a London stockbroking firm in the late sixties and early seventies, just when women were first allowed on the trading floor. Do you know what the first thing the guys did, they used to wear very shiny shoes, very shiny indeed. Nothing to do with looking god, simply so that they could stand so that that could look up the womens' skirts. Pathetic I know but it was a different time.
By the same token newcomers, both male and female, were always having their Financial Times set alight, oh what a laugh. There was also the Underwriter pub under the Commercial Union building where we had the pleasure of watching young very attractive girls dancing almost naked dancing in cages, happy days, happy days 'not'. You either had to conform or you were just not going anywhere. Or the City Circle which was a magnificent restaurant where the waitresses used to wear very attractive black see through blouses, with no bra, which left very little to the imagination. It was all of its time, we were young and we have grown up, seriously we have, I would never dream of acting in that shameful way today!
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#171, 170, et al
Without having any prejudices that I am aware of, I ponder with uneasy feelings the implications in the various posts that any actions to redress the male-female balance in business and commerce are the responsibilities of men.
The suffragettes fought long and hard for women's votes; modern society is arguably more open to such campaigning; girls have equalled or overtaken boys in education levels and university entrance; and there are as many women as men in the population.
Shouldn't their futures be left in their hands? I squirm when I hear politicians like Brown and Cameron and Clegg speak condescendingly of giving women (many probably of higher calibre than them) a boost.
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173. mike-jay
Good point. However it's difficult sometimes to draw a distinction between men who are genuine in wanting to help address what is still a problem in parts of our society, particularly in business, and those who want to be seen to say the right thing. Certainly women can fend for themselves and as you say, take the lead in many instances, but where there is still inequality, and there is, I don't think men should keep quiet about it.
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Good Morning Andrew,
so we have the terms of reference from Chilcot in respect of the Iraq Inquiry.
What I should say is that of course the proceedings should be in public. But more importantly it must be streamed on the internet, with all the transcripts made immediately available, again over the net.
What must also be allowed is for the public to be able to see the same evidence which is presented to the independent committee and for us to be able to suggest a question which we think she be asked based on that evidence. I have a simple persons mistrust of this inquiry because there will come a time when the questioning of the 'witnesses' will maybe not be as rigorous as it could be. Sometimes I myself shout at PMQs because nobody asks the questions which need to be asked.
One of the first documents which must be released is the copy of the secret memorandum of 31 January 2003 where it became apparent that there would not be a UN Resolution and that alternative reasons for regime overthrow must be found, in other words illegal regime change. So, just publish the document now and in full and an awful lot of time, effort and money will be saved.
As many will know I have a close family member who has been prevented by a High Court injunction taken out by the Ministry of Defence from speaking in public about the war. Prevented, not because it breached the Official Secrets Act, or was endangering National Security, but because it was a breach of a confidentiality clause in a contract he had to sign before allowed to join a special part of the services. A clause which was inserted to prevent members from benefiting financially from their involvement in that service.
Now, I know that soldiers signed up to serve their Queen and Country, and that they take the Queens shilling. However, if the war was wrong, if it was not for the reasons that were given to parliament, then I strongly believe that any soldier was 'free' to refuse orders, orders which I regard as being illegal. I can only hope that Chilcot does not get involved in a cover up. The eventual report will not be published until after the General Election. Surely the Committee will be able to criticise any evidence at the time it is given, and not wait until some unspecified time in the fiture. I am concerned already about this inquiry, I have not made my mind up in advance of the evidence, but I have accessed the documents leading up to the Great War, and all that helped do was to contribute to the next one. World War II.
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173 mike-jay
I think the case being made is that a less testosterone fuelled environment might be slightly less gung ho and more rational.
The uber confident female may still succeed in the current environment but only by emulating the behaviour of her male counterparts.
Maybe the answer is to put iodine in their tea!
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thanks to all for comments on the men v women issue ...
yes, I guess that's true - it's the toxic culture in the City which prevents women succeeding, rather than simply too few women per se - a bit chicken and egg though, isn't it?
what I'd suggest, as a way of transforming this particular environment, is a move away from the rather silly and self serving "performance led" remuneration they go in for (a.k.a. absurd bonuses) and replace with something based more on a decent basic salary with maybe potential for a 10 pc year end top up ... something like that ... you know ... "fair day's work for a fair day's pay" type ethos
that, at a stroke, would get rid of the testosterone fuelled Gonzos who are in it for all the wrong reasons (and who caused this mess we're in)
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I know there some exceptions to this but a lot of the time the city workers are not risking their own money and it is easy to gamble with other people's money.
A capped bonus system , as suggested above, would certainly remove some of the incentive for reckless trading.
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I suppose the point I was making re the 'testosterone fuelled environment' and the 'toxic culture in the City' and the 'absurd bonuses', etc was that it needs women to force the changes. Any other approach would be watered down for decades to preserve the male supremacy for as long as possible.
Maybe another strong female PM with some similar back-up in her Cabinet might set the ball rolling in the right direction.
But, please, not Harriet.
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Once again it all boils down to responsibility. These Gonzos (a favourite muppet of mine) get huge sums of money for gambling our money (pensions etc). And when they have made an almighty whoopsie we have to pick up the pieces.
I agree a decent salary and I would get rid of short-termism and have a bonus structure linked to future performance. This could be tiered and medium to long term in payout.
We need to get back to the idea that you put the hard work in at the beginning to reap future rewards rather than get-rich quick and scarper. This applies to so many of today's problems.
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Devon County Council Statement of Accounts.
I managed to obtain a copy of the "unaudited" Statement of Accounts (SOA)today from the Devon County Council(DCC)and the first thing I noticed was a 37million pound increase in the Budget for the 6 PFI schools. When the schools contracts were first signed 4-5 years ago the cost estimate was 90million,then 200million,then 300million and now it stands at 337million??!!
It beggars belief that the DCC were able to compile a SOA in the first instance because there is no Project Agreement for the 6 individual PFI school,hence, it must be down to guestimations.
The DCC-SOA contains one small paragraph relating to the PFi programme,I had envisaged a full fiscal breakdown of the PFI costings.
I think the failures in the DCC/SOA will suffice me lodging a formal complaint to the council for fiscal irrgeularities as sugested by XT.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
eXMo
I hope the links in 'bushywood.com' work better for you than they did for me.
Bonuses etc.
I agree it is the payout before profit that is wrong.
Women in the workplace?
Surely we each have our feminine side?
It's nice to be nice.
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181 exxonmobil
Dont forget you are entitled to inspect all contracts and papers.
If this Project Agreement is part of the contract then it should be available for inspection. If it aint that itself is grounds for a complaint.
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Good morning Andrew,
in all probability I think that a large percentage of the population have realised that the Met Office have manifestly over-egged the long range weather forecast for the British summer. Can we please accept that the Met Office is part of the wonderful, we always tell the truth, Ministry of Defence.
The same Met Office (MoD) which gives us global warming and climate change. The same Met Office which gives us Global Warming/Climate Change which at the same time organised a conference in Exeter where scientists from all over the world were flown in to discuss the terrible effect which air transport has on the climate.
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Ref 184 XT
Thanks for that info but I have already requested the Project Agreement from Devon County Council and been refused and also requested and refused via the FOI.I am currently awaiting notification from the FOI but I suspect the FOI are being V friendly towards the DCC.
I intend to place an officials complaint aginst the DCC Statement of Accounts today.
thanks again for you help and advice
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TORY SHAWDOW GOVERNMENT IN EXETER.
I have touched a nerve with the Tory MP wannabe for Exeter but hopefully my kick up her backside will have the desired affect but I wander if the Tory have been asleep on the job down here in Exeter ref the PFI school issues, e.g., why has the school budget been allowed to rise from 90 million to 337million pounds??!! and why have the Tory not objected to the previous statement of accounts.
I also wander at the credibility of Ben Bradshaw MP for Exeter because he purports to be actively involved in sorting out the problems with the 6 PFI schools. The main contractual document for the schools,i.e. the Project Agreement(PA) appear to be a ghost document, the DCC refuse to give me a copy,I am having GREAT difficulty obtaining the PA via the FOI.
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Andrew,
yesterday we had the wonderful specticle of the funeral with full military honours of the Henry Allingham.
Now I wonder why so much has been made of Allinghma whilst so little about Harry Patch, who had, unless it is forgotten, outlived Allingham and has also recently passed away. May I put a thought into some peoples head about Allingham and the link to the current conflict in Afghanistan and the recent retreat from Iraq. In respect of Iraq please note that all our military have now been thrown out from the country, told to leave by the very people we have put in ower and who we liberated from tyranny.
Allinghma has done very well out of the wars. It takes very great moral strength to resist the requests of the generals and admirals to come to this or that ceremony. Consider that nobody had heard of Allingham before the Iraq war. Could it be that the services were struggling with those who disagreed with the war to justify their position. For example Fl Lt Kendall-Smith who was actually courts martialled because he refused orders. You have to understand that our current crop of pilots were not at all happy about indiscriminate bombing of innocent women and children. That is why if you know anything at all that the British soldiers when caught with a problem call up the Americans to do the bombing because the British pilots were always missing the target. The Americans have at last realised in Afganistan that you will lose hearts and minds, big time, over indiscriminate bombing.
So what to do, the British are now spending huge sums of money on Drones, Reaper and Predator are but precursors to our spending on these 'machines' which can be flown from bases guarded by soldiers, but actually operated from bases in America.
So I am afraid I am concerned about Allingham, I am sure that he was a brave man, that he saw terrible things, but at the end of the day, I think he has been used by the government and the military as some sort of example which the current soldiers must follow. That the services will look after you in your old age, that you will go to parades where flags fly and bugles blow. No, I think that the fate for many of the soldiers of today will be PTSD, drinks and drugs, and being found one morning, cold and dead in some alley way.
If Allingham is to have achieved anything then the soldiers of today must all be treated and supported in the same way. All soldiers must be guaranteed the same treatment as Allingham, it would be hypocritical not so to do. If you watched the Allingham funeral then please remember Harry Patch, the last survivor of the Great War. I think that he was more representative of our soldiers than Allingham.
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Andrew,
we must never accept that the 'right' to a dignified death should be the preserve of the rich and well connected. Parliament must pass a law which allows an organisation like dignitas to operate here. If we are not to prosecute people who take their loved ones overseas to participate in assisted suicide then we must not be typically hypocritical and ban assisted suicide in our own country. There must never be a situation where the law treats the rich and famous differently to the common poor.
We must allow assisted suicides in this country, now.
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a copy of my letter hand carried to the Devon County Council and yes,I would have prefered to send it via email,but alas,I am banned.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Attn of the Financial and Legal Director and the Chief Executive.
Dear Sirs
Re OBJECTIONS TO THE FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF ACCOUNTS FOR 08-09
I wish to lodge a formal complaint against the Financial Statement of Accounts (SoA) for 08-09 as I consider the document to contain false and misleading information ref the PFI school finances. Furthermore, I believe that a number of Devon County Council Officials have conspired and colluded to defraud public funds attached to the PFI Schools.
I also believe the SoA has been falsely compiled with the full knowledge that the 6 PFI schools have been operating in a legal void and are unfit for purpose owing to the fact the schools have not been provisioned with the minimum safeguards.
My claims can be verified by simple ocular inspections of the schools and inspection of Public Documents which are being illegally withheld by the DCC.
There is also evidence that the DCC are circumventing the FOI Act 2000 to withhold relevant data from the General public.
There is evidence that the DCC have knowingly and wilfully compiled Financial Accounts to defraud public funds.
With thanks
Yours sincerely
Exxonmobil
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Chad Cameroon Pipeline Project(CCPP)
Please see the email below received from the World Bank which beggars belief to me. The World Bank state their remit for the CCPP has now ended because they no longer fund the CCPP. I don't agree because the IFC,which, is an integral part of the WB still fund the Oversight Authorities for the CCPP,i.e. the IAG and ECMG amongest several other minor group.
I also question the the mentality of the WB to withdraw from the CCPP but STILL fund other Chad Government projects. The WB are on record of withdrawing their support on the CCPP due to "Failures and Missappropriation" of WB Funds by the Chad Government.
Forgive me for being so stupid but if the CCPP has been subject to such missgivings for 6-7 years, what about other multi million dollar funded projects??
Wakey wakey at the WB??!!
And before the MODS accuse me of being Offtopic, this IS UK taxpayers money I am talking about.
Dear Mr. XXXXXXXXXXXXXX,
Thank you for contacting the World Bank's Integrity Vice Presidency (INT). As you may be aware, INT's mandate is to investigate instances of fraud and
corruption related to World Bank-financed operations and cases of staff
misconduct.
Following to the ending of World Bank's involvement in the Chad-Cameroon
Pipeline project and fully prepayment to IBRD and IDA components of the loan by
Government of Chad as of September 5, 2008, the project was no longer within
INT's mandate for investigation. Below please find the World Bank's statement
in regard to this subject as well as the link to the press release.
We appreciate your time and efforts to alert INT on this matter.
Integrity Vice Presidency
The World Bank Group
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No comment from Andrew about the latest from the select committee's?
The bank regulations introduced by the government are little more than window dressing
So the government is still sticking to the line
"We did nothing wrong"
"The banks did nothing wrong"
"It all began in the US"
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Attn of the World Bank Integrity Committee
Dear Sirs
Please see your reply to me dated 14th May 09 below and I now wish to make a formal complaint against the World Bank Integrity Office. You stated in your correspondence that the World Bank held no remit for the Chad/Cameroon Pipeline (CCP) because the World Bank had now withdrawn their support from the CCP.
That statement was factually incorrect because the IFC are still funding the oversight authorities for the CCP,i.e. the IAG and the ECMG.
Therefore, the my complaints of widespread fraud and corruption on the CCP DO come under you remit and I request you to reassess my original complaints please.
with thanks
Exxonmobil
Dear Mr. Exxonmobil,
Thank you for contacting the World Bank's Integrity Vice Presidency (INT). As
you may be aware, INT's mandate is to investigate instances of fraud and
corruption related to World Bank-financed operations and cases of staff
misconduct.
Following to the ending of World Bank's involvement in the Chad-Cameroon
Pipeline project and fully prepayment to IBRD and IDA components of the loan by
Government of Chad as of September 5, 2008, the project was no longer within
INT's mandate for investigation. Below please find the World Bank's statement
in regard to this subject as well as the link to the press release.
We appreciate your time and efforts to alert INT on this matter.
Integrity Vice Presidency
The World Bank Group
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CHAD CAMEROON PIPELINE PIPELINE (CCPP)HAS BEEN CONFIRMED AS A TOTAL FAILURE BY A WORLD BANK AUTHORITY.
Further to my posts 191 and 193 I visited the World bank oversight authority WEBSITE for the Chad/Cameroon Pipeline,i.e. the International Advisory Group (IAG) and low and behold they have just published their June 09 report which in essence confirms the CCPP is a complete failure and has been operating in a legal void for nearly 7 years.
Anyone wishing to read this IAG report can access it via the IAG Chad/Cameroon Pipeline home page.
This latest report by the IAG confirms also that the Project Oil Spill Plans are STILL not in place and also confirms the WB are STILL responsible for ensure environmental protection of the CCPP.
In essence this latest IAG report confirms my allegations of wrongdoing and skullduggery by DFID/WB/Exxonmobil/EIB/EXIM/Brown/ Blair and Uncle Tom Cobbly and all.
Whilst the latest IAG report confirms that the CCPP is an abject failure it also confirms that the IAG have also failed their duty of care for the past 7 years ,ditto for the other oversight authorities.
Maybe ,NOW they might take me seriously??!! Who knows??
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Good morning each & Andrew.
#192
IF something is broken it would need to be fixed.
BUT.
If the powers that be see no way of fixing what went wrong then...
Nothing is wrong. [within their ambit]
On the other hand all things within the ambit of the government are in a constant state of 'being fixed', so WHATEVER could be said to be wrong with ANYTHING is 'being fixed' "as we speak".
Every burglar that is caught is constantly striving to wean theirselves off the burglarising habit...I wonder what encouragement they get?
What would Vidkun Quisling have said in these circumstances?
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A copy of my email sent to everyman and his dog ref the pending Chad/Cameroon Pipeline CATASTROPHE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ladies and Gentlemen
As you are ALL aware, I have written to you all before warning of a pending catastrophe on the Chad/Cameroon Pipeline . The pipeline is a ticking timebomb from a safety and environmental aspect endangering thousands of poor people along the pipeline route and the South Atlantic Basin and Gulf of Guinea, especially costal fishing communities.
I draw your attention to the latest report from the World Bank Oversight Authroity for the CCP,i.e the International Advisory Group (IAG).
This report confirms the Oil Spill Plans (OSP) are NOT, (repeat not) in place despite numerous and consistent reports from the World Bank purporting full compliance to the Oil Spill Plans.The report also confirms the pipeline is operating in a legal void.
In essence, the latest IAG report contains sufficient credible evidence to close down the pipeline forthwith pending a full safety and environmental inspection/inquiry.
This latest IAG report also confirms that the World Bank/EIB and others have failed their duty of care and disseminated numerous false and missleading reports on the CCP.
I now urge you all to read this latest IAG and to do your upmost to close down the CCP.
with thanks
EXXONMOBIL
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REF TAG 189
I really have mixed feelings about this one having helped care for a relative with a chronic debilitating condition, who never got sick of life for all its indignities. It would have been awful if they had felt they were a burden and should end it all before time.
My doubts are further compounded by reports that an American insurance company denied a claimant cancer drugs but offered payment for assisted suicide.
However I understand other people being of sound mind and being unable to face their deteriorating condition may wish to take matters into their own hands.
To legislate to cover all cases would be very difficult and I am inclined to support our practice of fudging the issue - not very decisive but a more formalised system may place an intolerable burden on the sick.
Changing the subject slightly, it is sad to see we have lost Sir Bobby Robson an inspirational man who used his high profile to raise money for fellow sufferers in his latter years.
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#197
I agree about the loss of Bobby Robson. However, I have to say that do not believe all the stuff said and written about him. I am a Plymouth Argyle fan and at one time we had a former england goalkeeper as our manager, Tony Waiters. We also had a rather good centre forward by the name of Paul Mariner. Now Robson was the manager of Ipswich town and he bought from us paul Mariner and in exchange we received a small sum of money and two palyers, neither of whom was very good, in fact not very good at all.
Now, seriously, Bobby Robson was a very good manager, and a very good negotiator, but he did get our centre forward, the future England and Arsenal centre forward, for next to nothing. However, is this not one of the problems, insofar that everybody is aware of the pain and suffering endured by Mr Robson. Should we however, be able to go to Dignitas to avoid the pain and suffering endured by many in our society, our is it good for us to see pain and suffering in others. Does anybody deserve to suffer more than we would allow an animal to suffer, because the only difference between us and the lower animals is that we are sentient. Maybe we just think too much.
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Definion of willful misconduct from the Local Government Act 2000.
Whoops haven't the Devon County Council been naughty boys.Ditto for the Chad/Cameroon Pipeline??!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Wilful misconduct' is a legal term that either means:
deliberately doing something when you know it is wrong; or
deliberately failing to do something when you know you should do it;
and not caring whether doing, or not doing it, is wrong.
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IS THERE A CONCRETE STRUCTURE FAILURE NEAR YOU?
Three or four years ago a leading Cement manufacture admitted (publicly)that they had supllied millions of tonnes of contaminated cement to the South West which had been caused by a number of bogus employees by falsifying manufacuring documentation?! What happen to these bogus employee,I know not.
When I brought this matter to the attention of the Devon County Council(they were NOT aware) they placed an email ban upon me which has been in place and likley to remain in place for a lifetime.
I fervently believe that this company is STILL supplying contaminated cement not only to the South West but Nationwide. I also fervently believe that the Devon County Council have not taken adequate steps to safeguards against such repitions.
The cement manufacture has admitted the" Fraud" and I understand there are a number of ongoing cases against the Cement Supplier.
Most construction companies are not even aware of the fraud or the ramifications of using contaminated cement but I suspect they will get a rude awakening when the building or structures start to collapse caused by the contaminated cement and the premature onset of concrete cancer.
Hence, if you have had a concrete structure failure near you please let me know as I am keeping a dossier on the matter.
The main reason (in my view) of the resulting cement contamination is that this particular cement company are fueling their cement kilns via waste incinerators and fueled by wooden,pallets,plastic bottles,nappies,industrial waste etc and they are not maintaining the required consistent heat approx 1400c and is compounded by the fact that ALL the incinerator waste(ASH) is being blended with the cement.
This same cement manaufacturer has been subject to a voluminous amount of public outcry ref the Incinerator and environmental issues of the same, which, I don't want to get to involved in but the end net result is contaminated cements being supplied for Public Funded Projects and Local Government don't give a damn.
Is there any wonder the DCC hate me??!!
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Ref my 199.
It's fairly evident that MP's don't understand the definition of "Willful Neglect" or they would have not signed their expense sheets.??!!
Ref my 200.
Ben Bradshaw is aware of the Contaminated Cement but I think it is a wee bit above him to understand.
The Tory MP wannabe now knows about it but discarded the topic at our recent meeting as unimportant. Labour don't know and the Tories don't care.
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200 exxonmobil
How are you not exhausted?
I use dogpile rather than google. I put in uk multi storey car park collapses.
Up came many . That will be a start for you.
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I admit that I don't quite understand the euthenasia issue.
Do we imagine that the NHS doesn't already allow patients to die already ? I won't drag up my experience again. I'll just consider that to have been a one in a billion malfunction (hollow laugh).
Frankly it would be cruelty if hospitals didn't decide at some stage that further treatment is merely prolonging suffering and not achieving anything. If that is accepted then the NHS is telling us that they wish to assume the GOd-like authority to decide for us when to terminate our existence, but deny it to ourselves.
The medical profession must be careful not to take their conceit to outrageous levels.I'm still rather dazed to hear that paying patients from abroad were able to obtain organs donated freely by UK citizens. The example published didn't sound like the working of any reciprocal EU arrangement.
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#203
my own experience with regard to my own mother in particular leads me to believe in some form of asisted death. In the end she would not close her eyes for fear of falling asleep and not having somebody beside her to be there when she died. So many people die completely alone, they just die. But what if you are the last one, there is nobody, they have all died before you. Should we not all have deathbed buddies, just somebody to be with you as you cease to exist. Dead is a very lonely place to be. The most lonely you will ever be.
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Good Morning Andrew,
I am listening on Radio 4 to the testimony of a very brave veteran who was exposed to radiation from our nuclear testing in the fifties and early sixties.
Sometimes I feel ashamed for being English. May I suggest that your commenteers obtain a copy of the transcript of the programme which was relayed at about 9:30. I am very angry, and if there is anything I can do then I will research this, and get involved. These personnel followed orders, they could not refuse them, and they also had to sign the Official secrets Act. If the government feels so confident that they are in the right and that they owe no obligation to these men, then take them to the courts for breaching the Official Secrets Act, which has no limitation as far as I know, accordingly, are these men liars, or are they not intelligent enough to understand that standing pretty close to a nuclear device being set off is seriously not a very good idea.
Please note that the scientists seemed more concerned about the fish and the birds than about the human beings involved. This period is a stain on our nation, and must be rectified. The trouble is who set up the nuclear weapons programme why that wonderful immediate post war labour government. As for Gordon Brown if he had not pushed through the programme of GBP20 billion then the whole programme would now be dead, because it was parliament which authorised the expenditure.
As for the 'scientists' then without this funding they would be unemployed, then what they do? Sometimes I seriously do wonder how some of these people can live wth themselves. What have they done, but it is still the government and parliament which has blood on its hands. Without the money then none of this could happen. What have they done not only to their own generation but future generations as well. Historians will look back and wonder, how did it happen, what drove human beings to do this to fellow human beings.
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Good morning each & Andrew.
#205 TAG
I too listned to that gentleman this morning.
The word that sums this whole up for me is...'subject'. Subject of the crown; that is.
Our 'democracy' is the issue of the kings of old. We are but peasants with a semblance of choice once every five years or so. There is nothing else that defines us, the people, but that we are but subjects. Subjects who live only to do the bidding of the crown, in the shape of our government.
Plainly what we lack is any realisation or fruit of revolution.
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Ref 202 XTunbridge
Hi XT, no not exhausted but an enjoyable hobby.
Thanks for the dogpile info,that's a new one on me,will give is ablast later thanks
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...France seems to be ahead of the curve on compensating a-test veterans...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-03-24-france-nuclear-tests_N.htm
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#204 TAG
I like the concept of death buddies and do understand where you are coming from on the assisted deaths.
Your personal experience clearly leads you to a different conclusion than my experience would lead me to.
I am sure departures are hastened towards the very end of life to compensate for suffering, my doubts on having a formal legal framework are not based on any ethical/religious principles simply on a concern to protect the vulnerable from outside pressures to prematurely end their lives on the basis of the burden on their families.
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#206
I am becoming more convinced that there really ought to be a consolidated written constitution which gets rid of the 'subject' problem. I want to be a citizen, I demand an elected second chamber, I demand the total abolotion of the House of Lords. I am afraid that the Monarchy does not exist any more, the soldiers should not swear allegiance to the Queen, or future King, as for the Princes, and Princesses, please. Where are William and Harry?
We should have an elected Prime Minister, and Vice Prime Minister, call him a President because that is what the PM is in all but name. We must have a fixed term parliament and the 'President' must be allowed to appoint individuals who must be scrutinised. In fact the more I think about it the first American Civil War which resulted in the throwing out of the English should be repeated here. It need not be a bloody revolution, but there must be cahnge, this cannot go on as it is. Our soldiers are dying in Afghanistan to bring people democracy, but it will not be based on the English model, it will be based on the American model, it is time that our soldiers return to a home fit for heroes, not be treated as cannon fodder, or IED fodder, which does not have the same ring to it but means exactly the same. It is time to refuse orders, it is time to abolish the Official secrets Act, and 'D' notices. As Harry would say 'we do bad things to bad people' well Harry the bad people are nearer to home than you think.
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I know the risks and problems meninwhitecoats associated with euthenasia, but what concerns me is that it exists unofficially already, without any form of control.
The trouble is that targets and expense already exist as treatment limiting factors which currently take precedence over the wishes of the patient. I'm only alive today because I'm not stupid and I made a FoI request for my medical notes.
Hearing David Cameron's story of sleeping on the floor at his child's bedside appears to indicate that people of note receive a preferred level of treatment in NHS hospitals, as he wouldn't have wanted to sleep on the floor of the hospital I was in.
The NHS make life and death decisions, that cannot be argued. My experience and concern is at what stage they do that. Is it done before providing treatment to avoid expense and missing targets ? I believe that in some parts of the NHS it is.
In writing this comment, the logic has occurred to me that in making any decision regarding euthenasia, the patient and relatives will be guided mostly by the advice and guidance of the medical staff, and as I have experienced, they will be under pressure from the NHS authorities who may have concerns other that the patient's medical interests.
My feeling is that the patient should have the right to decide themselves, as the NHS already take that right unto themselves, but I would be wary of basing that decision purely on the guidance of NHS medical staff, who operate under the pressure of targets and finance.
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211 GeronimoJones
Euthenasia has been practiced in NHS hospitals for years. You will find references on the net going back ten years and more.
The "procedure" even has a name, "the Liverpool care pathway" . It involves the Drs authorising the withdrawal of food and drink from patients, mainly elderly.
This is a fully BMA sanctioned procedure.
Try searching for Britains Pathway to Euthenasia if you want to see how widespread it is and even used to clear "bed blocking".
Ten years ago the cops were investigating 60 such deaths, never heard anything about the result, did you?
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#212
This is exactly what happened to my mother. It is a procedure totally lacking in compassion. Of course the powers that be will say of course you could take her home and look after her yourself, but it will mean you being there 24 hours a day, and if she falls or collapses then she will be readmitted as long as there are beds of course, so what are the relatives meant to do if they do not live near their loved ones. It is a cruel and heartless process, but what are the alternatives. Care for the elderly at home, we don't use the term bed blocking any more, too emotive. Why do you think that the government will say we will pay for anything and everything you need to care for your loved one at home, but actually if you think about it it is a terrible waste of money. Put in a new bath/shower, stair lift, handrails etc...and then the person dies within a week, all gone to waste.
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213 TAG
I just find it very strange that to not provide sustenanance so the person dies a somewhat lingering death (possibly aware of starvation etc) of dehydration/ malnourishment is ok .
But to administer a quick acting pain free drug induced death is not ok.
Anyone who kids themselves that not treating someone so that they die is any different to a merciful administration of a drug is anything other than euthenasia in both cases is deluded. The latter is far more humane though.
I bet the death certs say natural causes.
To help a dying pain ridden or vegitative state person is merciful. To dehydrate and starve an inconvenient old person for blocking a bed is murder.
Wonder what did happen to those police investigations 10 years ago.
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Did anyone see BBC newsnight last night on Serra Leone and the DFID World Fank Failures.
How much Taxpayers money is being wasted on such projects. The DFID are a waste of space and don't give a damn about the UK taxpayers money.
It's about time International Governments got to grips with the World Bank and other international aid agencies, TOO much money is being squanderd and the Chad/Cameroon Pipeline is a very good example.
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211-214
I am largely with Geronimo on this one, when ever possible the patient should be in control.
Palliative care can hasten death in the final days which I can accept. My fears are for those with limited life expectancy but whose death is not imminent.
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#216
Perhaps it is true what they say...
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1551119/Mercy-killing-husband-convicted-of-murder.html
and here...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/suspended-prison-term-for-mother-who-killed-daughter-1241172.html
In many cases the last act of love might help sustain them once convicted although not all convicted will end up in gaol.
Painful for all concerned and release only for the deceased. Maybe if there was less chance of prosecution more of the family could share in the passing?
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...and finaly (no pun intended)
An artcle in the Law Society Gazette of 1992 speaks of the sentencing of a number of doctors...
http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/criminality-and-compassion
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218 Oudeis
What a mish mash of court decisions. The negligent manslaughter Drs got a lesser sentence than the mercy killing Drs but in one case the prosecution offered no evidence.
This really is a mess . Starving people to death is allowed and is inhuman, but painlessly helping them on their way is not allowed, sometimes, depending on the Court.
The best we can do is give an afflicted lady who wants to die at a facility in Switzerland at a time of her choosing a review by the CPS as to whether anyone accompanying her will be prosecuted.
An inability to organise whatsits at breweries springs to mind never mind draft sympathetic but protective legislation.
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I think that you will find that you are only now allowed to go to a hospice if your death is within six weeks. Any longer and you don't go. In many cases of course people just get old, there is no life, only a long lingering death, they don't allow us to maltreat animals yet some seem to enjoy watching the old suffer, a very strange society.
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Good morning each & Andrew,
"The Lord givith...but is somewhat lax with regard to His return policy at times."
Here we have another aspect of 'sovranty'.
Just whose life is it anyway?
The law remains a mish-mash of regal authority.
Rather than continue to moan I signed up with...
http://www.republic.org.uk/index.php
Just to see what pressure there is to wrest individuality and citizenship from the arms of the state. A state which is all too free with 'arms-giving' to subjects so that they can lay down their {their, is a moot point here} lives for 'their' country.
There seems to be little need for our goverment to convince us of the need to follow this or that course of action...and little attempt to explain, here and there, how things went wrong and who was responsible.
I say; that only by rejecting both the two main partys at the next election can we hope to (re)gain the power and influence that the word Democracy promises.
No Devil works a budy-system; it matters not whether we are well aquainted with him or no.
[as in; better the devil...]
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Good Morning Andrew,
I watched the retired General Sir Mike Jackson being interviewed by Ms Flanders on the Andrew Marr Show this morning and was appalled. He actually answered his mobile phone twice when being interviewed and seemed more interested in looking at his text messages than listening to questions about the appalling situation which has been allowed to develope in Afghanistan, with all the deaths and injuries, not only of British soldiers but also the local population. In respect of compensation to injured soldiers I wonder if the general would like to tell us what his pension is now that he is retired, and it will increase when he gets his Old Age Pension. I must say that in respect of the good General I wish that he would just fade away, as in the Who tune from the old days.
What he also did was to answer the phone but when finished reading it and just threw the mobile aside, I heard it clatter on to the floor. Now if he acts like that during an interview on national television, with his treatment of expensive equipment does that not indicate an attitude which is not to be ignored. If I was Ms Flanders I would have said directly to him would you like me to stop the interview so that you can answer your mobile. He was just so rude.
Finally, I wish that he had been asked how the situation had been allowed to deteriorate in Afghanistan since the initial occupation began in 2001. We should also be told of all the 9,150 soldiers now apparently in Afghanistan how many are actually fir for front line duty. The problems with helicopters being unfit for purpose would seem to extend to the Personnel Unfit for Duty, too much pud maybe and not enough exercise.
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The issue of euthenasia, I have to admit, does send my head spinning, because even if the government sanctions people assisting suicide for the terminally ill, this is allowing the option for the small few who are wealthy enough to be able to send their relatives to 'Dignitas'.
The discussions I have read and heard don't cover half the issues involved that we have raised, and I agree that withdrawing nourishment from someone terminally ill is not a humane option as it will lead to various organ shutdowns which won't be a pleasant experience. Withdrawing food may soothe the conscience of medical staff, but surely they must use the method least discomforting to the patient, not the one that makes them feel better.
I know that my thoughts have been clouded by my experience at one of the NHS's 'nutcase' hospitals where you can be left screaming in pain without relief, and yet drug addicts can saunter in without a care in the world and get morphine by claiming a fictional complaint. I won't mention what that complaint is.
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Andrew,
I was watching and listening to Ms Harman on the Andrew marr Show and noted that it would appear from what she is saying that the politicians should not get involved in the decisions of the courts. In the case of extradition that is the courts, in the case of euthanasia, that is the Crown Prosecution Service, in the case of abortion, free vote by MPs, in the case of hanging free vote by MPs. My point, why exactly have we got a government at all. The economy, world economoic crisis, so nothing to do with me guv. Swine flu, that's global pandemic. People getting old, that's to do with the demographic time bomb going nuclear, global proble. Afghanistan, of that's NATO.
I think you get my drift, so Ms Harman or Lord Mandelson, whoever is running the country can we be told exactly what is the point of having any ministers, especially the wonderful Ministry of Defence, it really ought to be renamed, return to the days of the Ministry of War, cause that what they do, wage war, or actually maybe a better one might be the Ministry of Occupation, cause that's what we do, occupy places.
Just listening to the priest who gave the Blairs Mass in Downing Street, don't mention the war, we don't do war, just like we don't do God.
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#223 Gj
The crux is 'self administration' of the death dealing drug.
This is the case with Dignitas today; the loved one must not be there to help in any way. If there is to be a change it must result in loved ones being allowed to administer the fatal dose, without the fear of sanction. A living will, an afidavit from the (in the near future) healthy/sane/compos mentis person is a start but the timing must also be looked at. Some trigger must be outlined or stipulated. It should never be a simple matter of convenience.
If such a change comes about the first few to 'benefit' from it will already be in a sorry state; just what are or could be their intentions or wishes?
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...The End.
I fumbled about to bring my Thomas to light [oooh-no-missus...my Dylan Thomas not my John...]
I looked for his 'Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night', with it's 'Rage, rage against the dying of the light'.
It speaks eloquently of the power we possess to will ourselves to persist.
What is lacking in us then, I wonder, that we cannot willfully surrender?
How much of a 'deed' is done when aiding a loved one to rest?
"The Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak." Viewed now in the looking-glass?
Perhaps it is better if we were to be dragged, rather than we go willing into this, another's Good Night.
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I'm no believer in the sanctity of human life under all circumstances, and I respect the wishes of anyone who ... for whatever reason ... has had enough and wishes to bring the curtain down - helped by others? ... yes if necessary, and if (being of sound mind) it's clearly what the subject wants - I wouldn't try and codify any of this into Law, though - too difficult - not appropriate either - I'd be inclined to leave things pretty much as they are, trust to the decency and common sense of the prosecuting authorities not to press for wrong outcomes or ... if they do ... the wisdom of judge and jury to prevail
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Susan-Croft
Hi Croftie, remember the discussions on the electric windmills ?
Well if you can access a copy of todays Sunday Independent there is an interesting article on a study which suggests the low frequency vibrations the turbines emit and the light flicker from the blades cause illness in some people.(Like high voltage power lines do)
Our govt as usual says phooey , no proof , carry on. The French are looking to move them offshore , just in case. Loads of compo claims in 10 or 20 years here coz the govt isnt just arogant, it dont give a toss.
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227 Saga
I have had a post,228, removed and I have no idea why, the e-mail dont say, just lists every possible offence known to man.
Let me try again. Saga you are silent in you post on the removal of food and drink from patients so that they die. And these are not terminally ill asking to be euthenased.They are in the main elderly patients bed blocking.
This is called "the Liverpool care pathway" and sanctioned by the BMA.
If the moderators do not believe this I suggest they look up "Britains Pathway to Euthenasia" .
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TAG
meninwhitecoats
oudeis
sagamix
It appears that the moderator(s) on duty at the moment will not allow me to discuss the removal of food and drink from NHS hospital patients as a form of euthenasia .
Thank you for your earlier points.
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My concern with euthenasia is that a law change would give us a two tier system (tha favoured option of Nu Labour right on thinking) where if you're rich enough you get the option of the easy way out, otherwise the poor masses are stuck with suffering.
I now understand that Nu Labour decided under Tony Blair that the white working class vote was a 'gimme' so they decided to spread their appeal, and chose to target the middle classes. This was the Mandelson way, and they seek to rekindle those magic years by bringing him back from the 'stiffs'. Their thinking is so fundamentally deranged, and a such a sign of desperation, I had wondered if it could be possible for them to do worse than had been projected. I now know they can. If they think that any working class person is going to find the smarm of Mandelson appealing, they've lost touch - big time.
Though I personally have little sympathy for the hacker who is under threat of extradition to the USA, I can't help noting that others, actually charged with terrorism, are managing to remain beyond the clutches of the USA without any trouble, even though at least one is claimed to have given finacial support to the Taliban - the organisation we are supposedly sending our troops to fight in Afghanistan. You couldn't make it up.
Harriet Harmon derided the Tories today for taking for granted they would be the next government. Well Harriet - that's simply because they have no credible opposition. We can only hope you don't finish off the scorched earth policy you have been implementing so far.
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TAG
GeronimoJones
Meninwhitecoats
Oudeis
Sagamix
However I put it the moderators pull it. I give up.
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233 Tunbridge
I am intrigued how you could possibly upset the moderators on this subject.
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yes, what on Earth was the "it" ? ... the mind boggles!
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#230-231 xT
No mention of 'house rules' as yet. That is a good sign; here's hoping.
It would be way too much of a mystery otherwise.
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234 meninwhitecoats
235 sagamix
I am as perplexed as you. We were having a serious discussion about the "e" word and its operation in hospitals and I was saying nothing different to what we had said already and it was pulled more than once.
It started, the pulling that is , when I asked saga his opinion on treatment designed to hasten death given to those who had not sought or consented to it. That question was never aired.
I will now add some background to this "treatment".
For some years there has been a BMA approved procedure for hastening death. In 2005 THe Mental Capacity Act followed those Guidlines and give the Doctors power to withhold all treatment including food and water from patients considered incapable of making decisions for themselves. Once the doctor has decided, then the patient becomes in effect a non person and even their relatives interventions are greeted with social services or even the police being called .
You may recall the case last year of Mrs Ellen Westwood, an 88 year old lady whom doctors had decreed would die in February and only survived by the determined efforts of her relatives and clergy getting her out of the hospital.
There is also the case of 91 year old Edna Purnell who was up and about when transferred to a rehabilitation unit. She was put to bed and given morphine, then adjudjed demented and under the auspices of the Mental Capacity Act. The protestations of her family came to nothing and her son was threatened with arrest when caught feeding her.Note, this lady was not terminally ill and after being given drugs was adjudged demented and this was sufficient to allow the doctors to authorize the withdrawal of food and drink which coupled with sedation has an inevitable consequence.
This is a scandal bubbling under that is far worse than the retained organs of deceased children.
Perhaps this may get on the blog?
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I feel seriously got at. The discussion of the operation of the Mental Capacity Act 2005 to withdraw treatment including food and water is banned on this site and that is a disgrace.
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Euthenasia is a serious and sensitive subject, but my worry is that our current government has shown itself to be accident prone in making hasty decisions.
The government has already announced that it won't interfere in the decisions of the court, which appears in itself to be something of a u-turn, so any change would have to be a change in the law, if the government is to be believed. If they do that then the natural question to follow is 'Why do people have to go to Switzerland for this procedure ?'.
I understand fully the arguments of those affected by the current law as it stands, but the issue has wider implications, which I haven't seen or heard anyone raise as a consideration.
The consequences of bringing in legislation or changing what exists, would be far reaching and could cause more problems than it solves.
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292 Gomerpyle
I share all your concerns Sir.
What I am trying to get discussed is not those who choose to end their life and have to go to Switzerland to do it in a civilised manner, but those who have not chosen to but have the decision made for them.
God only knows if that will pass moderation.
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Tunbridge
The elderly are no doubt routinely helped along their way, if this happens to a relative you tend to see things differently.
I don't think there is much between any of us on this subject apart from the degree of legislation - I still prefer an unregulated common sense approach
By extension of this I would suppose we have to include the rationing of life extending drugs.
I cannot possibly see why your earlier posts would be moderated.
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I have been loath to join in this discussion of euthenasia because it brings back awful memories of my own Mothers early death.
However I believe I can contribute something. My Mother had Cancer, towards the end she begged everyone to let her die. I was only very young and the memory of a once beautiful woman with pride, strength and ability turned into something unrecognisable to all her family, left with no dignity will stay with me for ever. I used to visit twice a day and oh how I dreaded those visits.
The drugs she was given for pain relief would mean that even at the end she could not say goodbye properly. In fact she was not even the same person at the end. The care in the hospital for the terminally ill was appalling. My father was informed she would die by telephone after she had gone in hospital for an operation. My mum had led a very clean life she had never smoked nor drank so therefore her care should have been the best on offer in the NHS. Sadly it was not. Had I been old enough to have a voice I would have done more about the situation.
My belief is that when you have witnessed something like this you realise how as a Country we are very poor at dealing with the terminally ill. There should be special hospitals set up in which nurses are trained to deal with the needs of the very ill and those likely to die. As in life we are given choices so should it be in death, your choice alone.
My only fear is that with the hospital system we have at the moment if euthenasia were legal, it would not be long before the system was just dispatching the elderly to free up beds etc. The elderly already get a very poor level of care in the NHS and the whole system would have to change if we were ever able to bring euthenasia into our healthcare.
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xTunbridge 229
So now we know the windmills not only look ugly and spoil the Countryside but are bad for your health as well. Time to set up a campaign I think. We will get XEXXON onto it he will get results.
Talking of climate and all that, I see on Sky early this morning that the professor on there says the climate does follow the amount of sunspots and that the earth will continue to cool. The climate according to him does go in cycles. He is saying all the predictions of the climate getting hotter are wrong.
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#242
Susan your last paragraph very much sums up my fears
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Good Morning Andrew,
I listened to the government person on the Radio 4 Today programme this morning, Phil Woolass I think, when he was being interviewed. What I noticed was the new way he was stressing two words in particular, one citizenship, and the other migration. Now I am not a citizen, nobody in this country is a citizen, we are subjects of the Queen, until the government changes the law then I am a subject. Soldiers take an oath of allegiance to the Queen, or King, and MPs also take an oath when they enter parliament, unless of course they cross their fingers, or they do not treat the oath seriously, that could be one of their problems, I think that many MPs are actually amoral, in respect of their behaviour.
Again the use of the emotive term immigrant will now be replaced by migrant. We all migrate, Brown is a migrant, he is Scottish yet he now operates mainly in England, he is a migrant, much less of an emotive term. I am a migrant I moved from Plymouth to Exeter via many other places, I migrate for various reasons, but I am not an immigrant. As for the patriotic argument, I am sorry but is that not the last bolt hole of traitor.
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242 Susan_Croft
I am sorry to learn of the pain you still feel over your mothers treatment.
This exactly the point I am making, when allowed to, thos like your mother should be able to seek a quicker demise. The cases I am very concerned about are those who are merely elderly and perhaps with dementia.
The 2005 Mental Capacity Act gives total power to the medical profession
to decide the patient is incapable of making the decision to die and makes it for them by withdrawing all treatment including food and drink.
Aside from the ethics of assisting the death of a perhaps otherwise relatively healthy person what a nonsense it is that a person who is in extreme pain and dying cannot ask to be assisted.
THere are some horrific documented cases of the use of this Act on people who were merely deemed demented and old.
Heres hoping the mods are kind today.
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As Mr. Robinson's blog seems to get closed more frequently than the shops in our green-shooting Hight Street, might I port over a comment from there that I inspires a question I would love answered...
405. At 9:51pm on 02 Aug 2009, jrperry wrote:
"as opposed to the Tories who (yes!) think they have it In The Bag"
The "in the bag" remark is Harman's little propagandist invention,
From the 'When in doubt, play the person' school of politics.
And it helps if make sure your have a referee that is 'selective'.
I watched the Andrew Marr Show yesterday.
And very able substitute interviewer in Stephanie Flanders, though I did feel she softened a tad for her last guest (Ms. Harperson). Sisterhood?
As I have heard this 'if all else fails' strategy trotted out by Labour ad nauseam, and unclarified/checked by some who sit across from their spokespersons, is it really true that the Opposition is spending all its time 'arrogantly' claiming the election is in the bag?
If so it would indeed by unwise, but I cannot recall personally having heard any such thing. The Conservatives can hardly be blamed for the claims of the media about them, much as some in the media might see merit in allowing a very tired Government to try and spin things this way.
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How wonderful that Phil Woolas is poised to take the hard line on illegal immigrants.
My (leftie liberal type) an Oxbridge Don was here the other day and actually voiced concern at the area where we live (and where he grew up) as being disgraceful, filthy and like a foreign country. He of all people commenting is an absolute miracle seeing as he is so PC and Socialist you would not believe.
Now, Phil Woolas, just join the Conservatives and we are halfway to getting a decent country back again.
Good on you Phil! (Shame you had to be bullied by Joanna Lumley who has now opened the floodgate for millions of others around the world who fought for this country - hmmmmmmm - actors, eh?).
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Good Morning Andrew,
I am listening to Radio 5 Live this morning over the situation over those soldiers who are beginning to vote with their feet.
We must be told how many military personnel are AWOL, how many have deliberately failed drugs tests, how many are just refusing orders. The war in Afghanistan is a disaster, the soldiers signed up to serve their Queen and country, not Brown and this failed parliament. This country is closer to revolution than many people realise.
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The Right to Die / Dignitas argument.
Too much choice causes real angst and dilemma. Just die when it happens.
We come into the world at a time not of our choosing. We come into the world from darkness and out of the jungle howling and screaming and in pain (the same for both the mother and baby unless the mother is knocked out in a C-section).
I have given birth three times - the last to twins (naturally). It is not much fun but it is right and natural and that is how our deaths should be.
Why do some want it to be clipped off before time and clinical?
And the suffering it causes to others who have to look after us is actually doing them some good and making them more compassionate.
Too much choice in everything makes life complex and inevitably some or many will make the wrong decisions.
My son came out of a six month coma horribly disabled but he says he is glad to be alive and would not in a million years have wanted to die. He is still terribly disabled and upset at times but he repeadly says to all who ask him that he is "glad to be alive".
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"A much-publicised law designed to stop wealthy tax exiles bankrolling political parties has been quietly dropped until after a general election."
"The disclosure means that key Labour donors such as Lakshmi Mittal as well as Tory donor Lord Ashcroft will still be able to pump millions of pounds into the forthcoming election campaign, despite promises to curb the influence of wealthy backers." Observer
More hypocrisy from our beloved government. It's fine to stir it up in the press about Ashcroft but when push comes to shove...
With Labour's membership declining they can't afford to lose their non-doms.
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xTunbridge 246
Oh that is only the tip of the iceberg mental patients are not the only ones to die in this way.
You see like everything else in this Country by propaganda we are meant to believe we have the best health service in the world and everything in the garden is rosy. We could rival the Russians for churning out stuff for public consumption. We are told doctors and nurses care and that they are truely wonderful health professionals. The truth is rather different. For the elderly, terminally ill, mentally ill, those who have serious illness our hospitals are places of horror. I have seen it for myself. The level of care is truely dreadful. Of course you are not allowed to say this because it is not politically correct to say doctors and nurses are not what they used to be. There is no longer that empathy for others in our society that is needed to look after our sick.
I had a friend who died in Spain recently, the Cancer nurses come into your home and take care of the sick person for you. Their ability and care according to my friends wife was something to behold. We may have the most expensive healthcare system in the World, but to my mind it is one of the worst for care.
No I am sorry until we offer something better than the NHS which I do not believe will happen, euthenasia is out of the question. The reason is that they will be dispatching people for no reason other than age before you know it. I do not care either how much bad reaction what I have said gets me, it is the truth and its about time someone had the courage to say it.
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Ref 243 Susan Croft
Don't worry Susan I am already on the case of the sprouting wind turbines. In particular,I have already raised the question
WHY ARE SOME TURBINES PROTECTED AGAINST LIGHTNING STRIKES AND SOME ARE NOT.
So far,I have not received a satisfactory answer but was offered a job by one of the companies??!!
Pesonally, I don't have an issue with the Wind Turbines and we are WAY behind other countries with alternative power sources. Yes, they are an eyesore but hey oh.
My biggest issue is the lack of lightning protection on SOME of the turbines. My question cannot be answered, because I know quite a bit about Lightning Protection System (LPS)and ALL turbines should been provisioned with LPS.
Some of my OTHER ongoing cases included faliure to provide LPS as required by Law, PFI Schools ,Devonport Dockyards, Bridges etc.
I think I should change my Blogname to Flash Lightning? What do you think Susan??!!
Good news on my INFAMOUS PFI case is the FOI have NOW assigned me with a caseworker after nearly 7 months??!! They must be busy at the FOI. The DCC have refused my FOI request for some data at one of the schools stating it will exceed the £450 government ceiling which is Bull-----.
All the data which I have requested is or SHOULD be available in PDF format.
I have already had one refusal from the FOIC and failed to get my appeal in time but FOR SURE if the FOIC make the same mistake again,I shal be kicking doors down at the FOI Office.
How the HELL can the DCC say my requested data would exceed the £450 ceiling beggars belief. I received similar info from Cornwall County Council??
I have also place an lodged a formal complaint of fraud and financial irregularities with the DCC Statement of Accounts.(Thanks for thatXT)
Don't you love it when a plan comes together??!!
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Ref 253
I really must slow down or I will meet myself coming back??!! I forgot to cover the health issues with the Wind Turbine and from the offset,I am no expert on this matter but it would appear to have received far wider coverage in the US than here, why is that I ask myself??
In the states, it is refered to as Wind Turbine Syndrome(WTS) and there are "allegations" of the following
1) Sleep problems: noise or physical sensations of pulsation or pressure make it hard to go to sleep and cause frequent awakening.
2) Headaches which are increased in frequency or severity.
3) Dizziness, unsteadiness, and nausea.
4) Exhaustion, anxiety, anger, irritability, and depression.
5) Problems with concentration and learning.
6) Tinnitus (ringing in the ears).
If you add lightning protection failures to the list, you can understand why the "Monsters" are causing a wee bit of concern.
Personally, I am unable to prove if the Turbines cause such health problems but I can prove they are a danger in a thunderstorm. These turbines are not manned but a technician working in, on or near a turbine during a thunderstorm is in definite danger,ditto for passersby,walkers,etc.
I would not envisage it too dificult to prove or dispove the health theories behind such claims but now they have cut down the Junior Doctors hours( good news) they could probably investigate.??!!
Sorry I mised this out of my above posting??!!
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flamepatricia 248
Talk about listening to spin, you really do not believe Phil Woolas do you? This points system for permanent residency will not even come into effect, if it ever does until after the next election. its just cynical electioneering. What about the EU there is still nothing to prevent people coming in from there.
We are now in the position that if we do not bring a scheme in to let one person in as one goes out, our population explosion in time to come will be frightening.
If Phil Woolas were to join the Conservatives you can kiss goodbye to them winning the next election because most of the public think that Joanna Lumley made Woolas look what he is, totally inept.
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XEXXONMOBIL 253
I just knew you would be one step ahead on this wind turbine thing.
I had heard there were health problems with them, because I have read articles by people who claim they live near them and have sleep problems and headaches.
I had thought about lightening strikes, however I just assumed they were fitted with safety devices.
No you cannot change your name because you are too famous now.
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Ref 256 Susan Croft
Hi Susan, most people think the Turbines are protected but rest assured they are not ALL protected. It is just a matter of time before someone gets killed with one of these things or something else which has not been provisioned with lightning protection and then someone will take notice??!!
Cameron and Brown bang their green drum but half the time it is environmental lip service. Let me just give you one example of this lip service.
The 6 Exeter PFI schools at the cost of 340million pounds has been just completed and as part of the environmental protection plans the design,plans,specification etc were "supposed" to have been maintained electronically via pdf file database. The Devon County Council have now informed the FOI office that ALL the files and data is via hard copy only and I would envisage a couple of tonnes of paper for such a project, how many trees is that??!!
It's environmental Bull---- they bang on about because it sound good.
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I see your reasoning Susan but if you look at the whole picture you will find that most people will vote for the party who are going to make their lives better or put something right which is badly affecting them be it tax issues, health, education or immigration.
I won't bore you because you know my situation but when my husband saw him speaking so strongly on Breakfast this morning he said "he should be Prime Minister, he's just what we want"! No thought of whether he was Red, Blue or Yellow crossed my husband's mind, just the promise that Woolas would make our lives better.
It's a very very strong point he's fighting on here and if the Conservatives don't have the strength or courage to speak out then they could be overtaken. I don't want them to, mind, I would much rather have the Conservatives in but immigration is the most important issue for I think 70-80% of the population so its a real vote puller.
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Very interesting article in todays daily mail ref wind turbine and risks to health.
Cancel my 259 because it posted itself before I completed the script.
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253 XEXXONMOBIL
As the weeks and months have passed I have begun to read your blogs with growing interest and admiration. I admire your tenacity and determination to seek the truth from those who would keep it from us and trust that you will continue your campaigns. We need single-minded people like you and Heather Brooke to bring the state to account.
More power to your elbow!
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Ref 261 Yellowbelly1959
Thank you yellowbelly1959 for those few kind words and it is indeed very encouraging to receive such comments.Rest assured, I will get to the truth on the matters I pursue because I feel the authorties I am dealing with, are at best, sleeping on the job or at worst sleeping in someone elses bed.For sure, I am tenacious and worse than a junk yard dog when given such a task. A junk yard dog will not allow entrance,I will let them in, but NOT out??!!
Thanks again and best regards
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flamepatricia 258
I do not want to make political points for anyone here, however Woolas and the Labour Party actually have taken the points based system for immigration from the Conservatives, who have been recommending this for some time.
If you go back as far as when William Hague was leader he did a speech called the 'Foreign Land', 2001 for which he was widely criticized, especially by the Labour Party. In this speech he was making the very point Woolas is making now. It seems the Labour Party have forgotten that to try to win over the electorate.
If you believe in any way that this dreadful man could be PM then I have little hope for the future. He will not introduce any policies now or in the future to move forward any immigration policy and to believe he would is rather naive to say the least. Labour have had 12 years to act on issues and they have not, now suddenly in the dying days of their time in office they want us to believe they will.
It seems it works on some.
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On the 8th July09,I hand carried an official complaint against the two Senior Executives of the Devon County Council (DCC), my complaint included the big F word and I don't mean the abusive adjective,corruption,collusion,abuse of power,failure,wilful neglect etc.
Two days later, I received a letter from some junior rating in the DCC stating, " THE POINTS WHICH YOU HAVE RAISED HAVE ALL BEEN PREVIOUSLY LOOK AT AND RESPONDED TO AND I AM SORRY YOU REMAIN DIS-SATISFIED".
What a load of codswollop, they haven't taken me seriously and haven't had enough time to make any investigation.They also advised me to complain to the Local Government Ombudsman(LGO) should I be dis-satisfied.The LGO is about as much use as a Chocolate Fireguard but I have since lodged a complaint and I have also lodged another complaint with the DCC ref their failures on their Statement of Accounts(thanks to XT)on that matter.
I will keep you posted.
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Anyone wishing to learn more on the Wind Turbine related health problems please do a google search under "Dr Pierpoint on Wind Turbine Health Issues" and you will find numerous interesting articles by this author/Dr. Dr Piepoint has undertaken a 5 years study on wind turbine health issues and she recommneds they should not be built closure than 2187mts from any dwelling??!!
Why don't we cage 50 or so MPs at the bottom of a wind turbine for say 6months and monitor their behaviour??! Now, there an idea??!!
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XEXXONMOBIL
Why don't we cage 50 or so MPs at the bottom of a wind turbine for say 6months and monitor their behaviour??! Now, there an idea??!!
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Good idea, however, they would still spin it and say it had a positive affect on them. Which thinking about it maybe it would.
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Done a wee bit more research on the Wind Turbines today and I am far from convinced they are safe. There is a voluminous amount of data out there and it appears there is a health hazard from the INFROSONIC (Low frequency noise emmissions from the turbines). In laymans terms, a noise you can't hear or might not hear but loud enough to damage various parts of the body and not only your ears. A bit similar to the radio frequency waves from Radio Transmitters(mobile phone masts etc).
Radio frequency emmissions from Mobile telephones mast CAN be measured, I am not sure about Infrosonic sounds.
There has been a large number of BAT DEATHS reported near wind turbines and that might explain the INFOROSONIC sounds,which "May" have confused the bats which rely on similar technology.
There was a study undertaken in Italy a couple of years ago which suggests the Infrosonic noises from the Turbines can damage human arteries,casuing heart attacks?! Wow.
I wonder how much knowledge this government holds on this subject??!!or with-holds.
A bit similar to the electromagnetic waves transmitted from the HV Electric Power Cables.
I remember reading some years ago where an electrical expert had managed to powerup several bulbs adjacent to an overhead power cable with direct connection, which,I must say I was a wee bit sceptical.
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Good Evening Andrew,
with regard to Woolass, the labour party in general and migration may I suggest that they listen to a recording by Phil Ochs 'Love me, I'm a liberal' these are sad days indeed.
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Andrew,
with regard to wind turbines maybe people should look at what has happened in parts of India where turbines have been installed. They are being made responsible for the changes in the wind patterns and rainfall. Do others know of these adverse changes where wind farms have been constructed. I think of Chicago, which would not be the windy city if it were not for the tall buildings. Or would it?
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Andrew,
I have listened to the head of Barclays giving his interviews to the press and media saying where is the evidence to show any adverse effects of investment banks. May I suggest that the banks publish in the media the performance of the pension funds which they manage. These are available through the WM Company, previously known as Wood Mackenzie and if anybody wants to see the adverse effects of the poor performance of the investment then that is where you will find the evidence. They have lost billions of pounds of other peoples money, namely their pensions.
I tried to attend the full meeting of the investment committee of my local county council and the most interesting part was put into what is called part 2 where the press and the public are excluded. A shocking decision which the local councillors agreed with because they voted in favour of my exclusion.
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267 exxonmobil
I have heard it is possible to get a fluorescent tube to light merely by standing under the pylon lines. They hiss and crack like nobodys businesss when it is wet.
I do recall a doctor who managed to arrange an experiment with a woman who was greatly afffected by them and had the power company turn the juice on and off and she collapsed every time it was switched on!
I read about the adverse effects of wind turbines in the Independent on Sunday yesterday . Your info makes the knowledge and similarity of the effects an internationally known phenomenon. But here any suggestion of illeffects is phoo phooed ; as with mobile phone masts and power lines. Big compo in years to come methinks.
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Safety of Wind Turbines
I have been thinking over the comments made here and have come up with my list of risks posed by wind turbines. They are:
Physical Structure : (1) Effect of pile and concrete base on water table; (2) Structural effect on microclimate - change in air streams; (3) Lightning strike.
Turbine Operation : (1) Effect of noise; (2) Effect of vortex from blades on microclimate; (3) Polarisation/ionisation of air particles.
Aesthetics : (1) Psychological damage caused by the presence of unwanted structure.
In my opinion much of the risk is associated with the presence of any large structure and would be true of plonking any large structure in the countryside. This is not to negate the risk but to identify that this is true of putting up houses, pylons etc.
In terms of the risks posed by the operation of the turbines I think that the noise emissions are the greatest possible problem. The periodic nature of the turbine at slow speed will generate a low frequency pressure wave (there will be wide band noise from the blades) below the audible range. A bit like whale noises. Anyway the energy from low frequency waves dissipates slowly meaning that the wave can travel large distances. Therefore the effect of the noise per se will be minimal. The problem is resonance. If the low freq noise couples with the natural frequency of a part of the body, say a cavity, then the effect is amplified. An example would be the possible beaching of whales or damage to divers caused by low-frequency active sonars. However, in the case of sonars these pump a lot of energy into the water and the water is a better conductor. I suspect the bat deaths are caused by their prey being sucked toward the blades. Bat echolocation is very high frequency - needs to be as the insects are small.
So my conclusion is that if you compare no turbine with a turbine then there will be risks. Compare turbine with a pylon say and the risks caused by the turbine, in my estimation, are small. Of course that is relative and that is my point. I would rather live near a turbine than next to a busy road or railway line.
However, if you start looking at banks of turbines then these risks accumulate but I still think are small. The damage of more turbines is likely to be to the microclimate rather than the noise aspects.
I would not ditch the wind turbine on safety grounds. There is no need. Just ditch them on environmental grounds. Huge amounts of concrete and steel, copper windings etc. for an unreliable energy source (on land especially). Microgeneration and micro-power production are the way forward. Generate the energy at the point at which it is required. More efficient and no energy loss in the grid.
Finally, I am no expert!
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#267 XEXXONMOBIL
Windy Miller, who lived just outside of Camberwick Green, never had a problem with them...and he used to have to dodge the blades every time he just went in and out of the house!
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#267 XEXXONMOBIL
Apparently alien spacecraft are allergic to these wind turbines...
'UFO claim over wind farm damage'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/7817378.stm
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Merlin Helicoptor Debacle
The breaking news that 6 new merlin HelicopterS can't be sent to the BattlefronT because they are not suitably armoured beggars belief. Why the HELL are the toys of war ordered and payed for in the first place if they can't be used in the front line.
It sounds to me, that MOD procurement is about as bad as the PFI School situation i.e. UNFIT FOR PURPOSE.
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Ref 272 Worzel
Worzel, I commend your comments and knowledge on the Wind Turbines debate and agree with your statements. There is enough iformation out there which in my view warrants a full safety and environmental inquiry into the Wind Turbine hea;lth issues. I too, am not an expert
Ref 273. BankslickermunsterR. I too, was amazed how Windy Miller managed to dodge the blades?! But was that not a windmill ,not a Wind Turbine??!!
Ref 274 Debtjuggler. I am familar with this UFO story in Lincolnshire and would tend to dismiss the UFO theory and rely more on loose nuts and bolts or cowboy installations.
Ref 271 XT
I fear you might be right here XT,lets get our claims in now??!!
Ref 269 TAG.
I think the UK general Public is FAST catching on with the Wind Turbine Syndrome and when the public drum is banged LOUDER,they will listen.
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Good Morning Andrew,
listened to Ivan Lewis on the Radio 4 Today programme this morning in respect of allegations of Britain being complicit in torture.
Now then let us agree that a soldier signs up to serve their Queen and Country, that they do not believe in Harry and his 'we do bad things to bad people' the cap legend which Harry had when he secretly served in Afghanistan, and which was the subject of a media cover-up. So, they also sign an oath of allegiance and that they will follow all legal orders, without complaint and do as they are told by their superiors, and that there is accordingly a chain of command, and that because actually we are the good guys in all this that the officers, right to the very top will always give legal orders.
But what if you are in an occupying force where some of the officers are not like your officers. That they do extra-ordinary rendition, and that they use enhanced interrogation techniques, and that this other country uses regimes to do their torture for them, and they treat prisoners with contempt and inhumanely, and that some of these prisoners are sent to Guantanamo Bay, for reasons of our safety and national security.
So, my point, surely a British soldier will do his bit whilst he is out there, he will not let down his mates, his pals, his friends, the regiment. But what if he knows that by following his orders he is acting against his own moral beliefs, that it is not that he is refusing orders from a British officer, but that he will not take any longer orders from this officer of another country. I think that that soldier is right, that we as a nation are diminished by the activities of our so called allies in the war against terror.
Hutton has agreed in parliament that we have detained people who have then been handed over to a third party where we do not know what has been to them, I think you will find it in Hansard. He said, and I paraphrase, previous ministers who denied this were not aware at the time that they had been incorrect in the answers which they gave to parliament, other holders of the post include Geoff Hoon.
There must be an independent inquiry, and please do not give me the rotten apple apology for the action of some of our soldiers, the ends do not justify the means, by our actions we are judged, and I think that in due course millions will have to paid in compensation, only that will not salve my conscience. Parliament, this abject parliament has allowed this to reach the stage where we have lost hearts and minds throughout the world, we are just as guilty by not naming names as those that do the deeds, in our name. The ends justify the means is the mantra. Would our soldiers in 1945 have taken orders from a Nazi officer in the army when they saw the concentration camps, of course not. However, did our soldiers respect the German soldiers in WWI, well the evidence from two of our true veterans would say that they did. We are not at war in Afghanistan, we are an occupying force, just like the Nazis were in France in WWII, it is not the war which is the problem, it is the occupation. The French in 1945 treated those who colluded with the Germans as collaborators, how are the Afghans any different, it is their 'country' we are the invaders like so many in the past. How would you treat somebody who was trained by a foreign army to protect your country so that the soldiers of the occupying force could leave you to the 'new model army', the collaborators of today.
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Radiation from Mobile Telephone Masts.
Whilst we have been discussing the Wind Turbine health issues the subject has included Radiation from Mobil Telephone Masts. (RfMTM).
Whislt the Wind Turbine health issues and "Infronsic" noises might be in the infant stages of investigations, there is not a shadow of doubt about the health hazards of RfMTM and indeed the radiation is demonstable by effective measuring equipment.
Over the last 10years or so the Mobile Telphone Companys have been VERY busy obtaining permission from schools,hospitals,sport stadium,universities, shops and tall building to site the Mobile Telephone Masts . Evidence of these masts can be veified by simple ocular inspection of rooftops of the afforementioned facilities.
I would suggest that the owners of the buildings/facilities have been MORE interested in getting an "ATTRACTIVE RENT" for no return other than empty rooftop space than the safety of the occupants or residents of the building. This can be verified by requesting the regular Radiation Test Results??!! You will be met by a large number of blank stares if you request this info.
Indeed, I have been on gardening leave since Nov last year and I have cited the adverse affects of Radiation as my job included the errection of theses radio masts for a well known Mobile Telephone Company.
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263, Susan, I am inclined to agree in that this shower have had twelve years to improve or maintain standards in this country but they have undisputedly made it far far worse.
What you have is the indigenous population now has a low self esteem (crime, binge drinking, benefits) due to a lack of identity and culture because we are told to lie down and allow others to invade us and we should respect THEIR cultures, beliefs and lifestyles.
Well, let's all hear it for England. Let's become families and proud again. No "jigsaw" families, dysfunctional familes. No irresponsibile behaviour.
As the Judge said the other day: Marriage is the only thing which can save Britain now. (and I don't mean arranged marriages either!).
I see what you mean about Woolas and the thought had crossed my mind that it was a last ditch attempt. However, please please Conservatives make a strong stand - as and when it is right - and millions will give you our full and undivided support.
After all, it was because of the inept and crass actions of this stupid government that the BNP have gained support.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
275. XEXXONMOBIL
Merlin Helicoptor Debacle
In June 2007 the MoD acquired six brand new Merlins from Denmark in a memorandum of understanding. The MoD took possession of the helicopters then and paid for six Merlins to be sent to Denmark at a later date.
The six Merlins were to be upgraded to meet specifications for operations in Afghanistan before being deployed there in 2008.
"They will be fully ready for operations in 2008," the MoD said in a news bulletin in June 2007.
Now 13 months after they were due to enter service...
"I cannot responsibly force through such procedures more rapidly than the experts can deliver them. Indeed, that would be an extremely dangerous thing to do."
Quentin Davies, Minister for Defence equipment and support
Although they'll be at least 18 months late, Davies defended the programme's length, arguing that "the Merlin upgrades cannot be rushed."
Sounds like they were caught with their pants down when the helicopter shortage made the headlines so had to make excuses... as you say X, the MoD is not fit for purpose.
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#272 Dorset
I have no idea why wind turbines evoke such an adverse reaction - it is a bit like the public reaction to GM crops.
I do agree with you that local powere generation has got to be better and in addition we need to look at means of harnessing the power of our rivers. The victorians used watermills to power their industry, I am sure it is not beyond the wit of the current crop of engineers to design water powered turbines as a reliable local source of energy
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279. flamepatricia wrote
"What you have is the indigenous population now has a low self esteem (crime, binge drinking, benefits) due to a lack of identity and culture because we are told to lie down and allow others to invade us and we should respect THEIR cultures, beliefs and lifestyles."
=
The usual xenophobic claptrap.
I think you'll find the crime and binge drinking and "low self esteem" is not down to "other cultures" 'invading' us, rather a result of being paid for doing sweet FA and the bone idleness that it cultivates. It's increased over the years because it's become easier to do FA and get paid for it. Race and culture has nothing to do with it, if you are bone idle you'll find an excuse for it. I doubt whether many of those "indigenous" you refer to bother about self esteem, judging by personal appearances.
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SATs attainments down by 1% for 11 year olds.
Is it a good job that Ed Balls abolished the rest?
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Good morning each & Andrew.
#284
Let us not forget what I think is called 'standard deviation'. Of say +/- 2%.
Therefor at worst these results represent a 0% increase.
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Good Morning Andrew,
may I humbly suggest that whilst it is very good to look at wind farms, the economy, the Chad Cameroon Oil Pipeline Project, Afghanistan, torture etc...we should not be dostracted from other stuff going on.
For example, I am becoming more aware of the side effects of Bisphenol A, or BPA, which is used to make plastic stronger. I think that the government must start an immediate public awareness campaign to get this banned from certain containers because of the alleged side effects on groups of people. We are being made more than aware of health issues over Swine Flu and now the Fish and Chip shop, but in respect of the latter may we also point out that the shop also sold Kebabs and burgers, not just Fish and Chips.
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Andrew,
may I show an extract from John Hutton said in parliament on the 26th February 2009 column 394 in respect of detainees:
Hutton continued, 'for the initial stages of the campaign in Iraq, we also had in place a memorandum of understanding with the US and Australian Governments covering arrangements for the treatment and transfer of detainees'.
All I would ask is that the government publishes without any amendments, or blanked out lines, the memorandum. Surely the printing of such a document would possibly negate the need for any inquiry into claims of 'torture'.
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My frustration with the media, Government and opposition continues, when will someone speak out about the utter mess that is being made of our banking system.
This morning I hear that Northern Rock has recorded losses for 6 months of 724 million on top of millions lost previously for poor loans. This Government should be cutting costs and allowing the bad debt to fail which would be the sensible thing to do, to bring the bank back to health. This bank could then be sold for a profit in the private sector. Instead what do we see, the Government is propping up bad loans on mortgages which will fail anyway in time, to keep votes, and using the Rock to lend out instead of building up its capital. Now this inept Government is suggesting that the good part be split from the bad and the good part sold to the private sector for someone to make profit on instead of the taxpayer. The bad part is to stay in the public sector. This means yet again the public finances are being used for a dumping ground for more debt.
The Northern Rock should never have been nationalized in the first place. The Governments dithering in the first instance caused all the problems. At the time of the run on Northern Rock the Government should have guaranteed all deposits to stop the run. Then identified toxic debt which should have been separated from the good and sorted out agressively to gain any assets. A new management team appointed, no rewards for failure should have been the order of the day. The public sector cannot run banks, they interfere to much and have too much control, we all know that, they do not have a clue. You only have to look at the banks which are making money, they are the ones who have taken no money from Government.
Instead what do we see loss after loss for the taxpayer and yet more silly moves by this Government to incur more. Where are the sensible heads saying no to anymore of this nonsense from Government.
Banks need to build up their capital, this Government had plenty of warning that they were not holding enough. There were problems identified well before Northern Rock. Problems the Government decided to ignore. Now it is no good everyone including Government, business and the public opinion follower Vince Cable saying they must lend. Banks cannot with the best will in the world build up capital when rates are so low for investors, lend at low rates and maybe incur more debt on business and mortgages which may fail, prop up bad debt, its impossible.
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...#286
Please read this article and comments...
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=just-how-harmful-are-bisphenol-a-plastics
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BlameGame - not sure if you said where YOU live (No I don't want to know) but I doubt if it is in or near Brent.
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#288
Please note that Alastair Darling actually had a mortgage with Northern Rock, be afraid, very afraid. Furthermore, why are newcastle United still wearing the Northern Rock logo on their shirts. Where are the votes for the labour party. Where is Northern rock based. Same with Royal Bank of Scotland, and Halifax bank of Scotland. We moan and shout and scream about the City yet it would appear to me that the problem does not lie with the City it is the other places which would appear to have the country down.
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291. Griffin. There are dark forces running this country that neither we nor the media know much, if anything about.
Be very afraid indeed.
Governments over the years have always been covert. That is why they hate the media and the internet right now.
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Personally I have given up having any meaningful discussion on immigration because it always ends up the same way. No wonder politicians do not even bother.
We need to get it through our heads there is just too many of ALL OF US black, white, green whatever. In time to come if if do not bring in sensible measures to control population you will have to build a house every minute to accommodate everyone and even as we stand you will never see full employment ever again. Our services will fail across the board because they will be under too much pressure.
Everybody needs to cut their family size, if not willingly then by measures to make them and immigration must go to one person in as one goes out.
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Help! I just do not understand. Just heard Ian Pearson on News 24 saying that NR paid back 18bn but have again made a loss of 724m. Does that mean they actually made 17.2Bn? He also said that it has shown the govn did the right thing by taking NR into public ownership. As we have no comparitor now can anyone say this? More electioneering garbage - helping savers etc. Just fed up with it. This on top of huge profits from Barclays and HSBC. Whilst they did not get bailed out they have certainly benefited from the bail outs keeping the industry afloat and the quantitative easing. I think these ministers have not the slightest clue and are being led like lemmings.
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T. A. Griffin (TAG) 291
Just so, political reasons to meddle with banking.
Here is how it goes, you have a Government who has extended the public sector to unsustainable levels to keep votes.
Next the Government have a banking crisis starting with Northern Rock. Nothern Rock is based in one of your biggest voting areas. So you dither because you know what you should do, however you do not want to lose all those votes when those toxic mortgages fail. So as I have outlined above the Government took the wrong decision in order to keep votes.
Next it is HBOS which when you look at its balance sheet is a totally toxic bank with very little assets. The logical decision is to let it fail. However, do you really as a Government want to lose that many jobs in Scotland and allow bad mortgages and bad business loans to fail, think about the the votes. So you join it up with Lloyds a very conservative bank ( small c) with a good balance sheet and pump in tax payers money. In the process you do not guarantee jobs in England but insist that jobs are guaranteed in Scotland. Thus bringing down a perfectly good bank like Lloyds.
Next RBS too big to fail bank, the logical answer is to break it up immediately sell off outside assets, run it agressively allowing all toxic debt to fail. However think about the votes and loss of jobs in Scotland. So you pump taxpayer money in and prop it up still containing all the toxic debt the taxpayer is now responsible for. Plus keeping in tact the good name of the pride of Scottish banks.
Now you have the added problem as a Government that you have allowed the banks to lend too much even though you as a Government have encouraged them to do so. The regulation was poor and you as a Government ignored the warning signs that banks were not carrying enough capital. Perfect answer you blame the banks and accuse them of not lending enough even though you have bailed them out. However behind the scenes you tell banks that they must build up their capital. Sensible banks like Barclays go their own way because they know what Government is up to and start to make money again.
Now if the banks had been dealt with properly, yes we would still have the problem of the bloated public sector. However the Government could then have borrowed to lend money to our businesses to keep them going throught the crisis, giving banks time to build up their balance sheet and more confidence would have stayed in the system.
This Government is to blame for everything.
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Dorset_wurzel 294
No it does not mean they made 17.2 billion. Because the Government insisted on speedy repayment of the loan from the BOE, Northern Rock was forced to send good quality mortgages and business loans away thus freeing up the money to repay Government.
This in turn has made the position of N.R. worse because it has been left with all the toxic loans which now are beginning to pull it down, thus the 724 million loss as they begin to default. Government has made the Rocks position worse and I believe it will sink it in the end.
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hi Andrew,
and how are things in the good old US of A, now that they have forgotten all about extra-ordinary rendition and enhanced interrogation techniques how is that car scrappage scheme going. I've heard through my grapevine that all is not well with the 'Cash for Clunkers' scheme where the money has nearly already gone. Probably those bankers have been waiting for the scheme before getting cars on the cheap.
Over here of course we have had 'cash for honours', we have had 'cash for loans' and 'cash for MP expenses', I do prefer the term 'Cash for Clunkers' which can be applied to anything and everything. The new cry on the street, 'Cash for Clunkers'.
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296 susan
So basically they have sold off assets? Ok not tangible assets eg. a house but ditching the hold that a loan has on their assets (cash). This is what I thought and to me it not a good thing as touted by this govn.
I had a hard-nosed stance on this banking crisis and would have let them fail. I understand the comments that this would have created a maelstrom in that sector but the strongest would have survived and picked up the going concerns from the failures. As long as deposits were protected. However, I know nothing of economics and the concensus appears to be that this just could not be left to happen. It does annoy me though when them claim they have done the right thing. How do they know?
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#297 TAG
On the expenses it appears that those responsible are "trousering" a fat 11% pay rise. Failure IS the new success.
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285. At 10:55am on 04 Aug 2009, Oudeis wrote:
Good morning each & Andrew.
#284
Let us not forget what I think is called 'standard deviation'. Of say +/- 2%.
Therefor at worst these results represent a 0% increase.
===
Would that be like "Jimmy" Brown's 0% increase in spending?
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#299 Dorset_wurzel
Here's the story...
'Large pay rise for parliamentary officials who ran MPs' expenses'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6737922.ece#comment-have-your-say
Failure certainly is the new pay rise!
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hi Andrew,
hope that all is well over there. It is still raining down here in wet and horrible Exeter, the home of the brilliant forecasters the Met Office, sorry Ministry of Defence weather forecasting station. The Met Office seem to be as good at forecasting the weather as the MoD seem to be at giving a time line for getting us out of Afghanistan.
I still think that there should be an urgent inquiry into our situation in Afghanistan, in particular how is that we have apparently been there since 2001, and have trained tens of thousands of police and soldiers yet where exactly are they.
I am glad that Gordon is having a good holiday, no soldiers deaths to read out every wednesday, I wonder if he will make up for it in October when the parliamentary recess comes to an end. I think that he really should announce to the nation how the Northern Rock have managed to make such massive losses, you know which we own, and the staff are brilliant, and have been working very hard, and everything in the North east is fantastic, salt of the earth etc...now why exactly are we going to be building two massive aircraft carriers. If you think about the helicopters which are not fit for purpose so will only be able operste on certain missions and in certain weather conditions, then will we not also have to construct a fleet to escort the aircraft carriers, the building of which will of course get jobs.
Now was it not Blair who talked about the clunking fist of Gordon Brown, well that is why we have 'Cash for Clunkers'.
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Andrew et al
We are told that they have enough helicopters in Afghanistan but the fiasco with the Merlins and Chinooks puts into sharp focus the ineptitude in the MoD. These are not like buying a mobile phone, finding reception is poor then binning it. These are seriously expensive bits of kit hence the endless committees and hundreds of civil servants making sure everything is okay. But no. They could not even check that they could fly in Afghanistan. Oh yeah, stuff buying new kit lets get some second-hand kit from Denmark. Not doubt more was spent deciding to do this than the cost of a new ones.
Everywhere you turn there are endless layers of bureaucracy. This just leads to a diffusion of responsibility and a lack of decision making. Would you have 10 soldiers but only 1 gun?
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Ref my 280.
Can't understand why the MODS binned me on that one as I was just informing the blog I had received an email from the US treasury informing me the loss of federal funds was not under their remit,Yes I did mention the BIG F word ( not swear) and they have kicked me into touch,strange.
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Just a little interest story, did anyone see the piece on Sky yesterday, it was on very early morning about 6 that the Haggis was invented in England. We stopped using it and then the Scottish adoped it, with Burns addressing the Haggis. It was a Scottish historian Catherine Brown who discovered this to be the case.
Wonder how Brown feels about that, after all it is their national dish.
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#305
...Our national dish has long been Moira Stewart. With or without chips. :)
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Oudeis 306
In that case do you mind if we nick it back, because when I was in Scotland I was eating it all the time, I love the stuff with neeps and tatties. I cannot get hold of it so easily in England.
Also can we have your stovies and cullenskink.
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Susan-Croft.
'Stovies' is the magic word; the Scottish eqivalant of 'Open-Sesame'.
Could you please take the Scotch Egg back?
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Oudeis
No just bin the old scotch egg, but a spot of the old Aberdeen Angus will do me fine.
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307 Susan-Croft
I take it that the Haggis you can buy in most English supermarkets is not like the real thing?
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285 Oudeis
Yes, you are right to say that when you are trying to assess whether the mean of one distributed field is significantly different from the mean of another distributed field, the standard deviations of the two fields are very important to the question.
However, in this case, the SATS results for eleven year-olds, the government has gone to some considerable lengths to conceal what that standard deviations actually are, or any basis from which they could be calculated. You might like to tell us where you got your figure of 2% from. I can tell you that from my experience of dealing with figures like this, your number is likely to be a massive over-estimate; I would be very surprised if it was not safe to conclude that this year's results are indeed significantly worse than last year's.
You wouldn't be trying to pour a little oil on troubled waters, would you?
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xTunbridge 310
No its not the same. When I first moved up to Scotland I was in hotels for a while. At breakfast I used to have the haggis with my eggs and bacon it was lovely. Then out the door on a frosty morning at about 6 for work, set you up for the day. Then at lunch your stovies and fish supper at night. Burns night we would wear our ball dresses, men in kilts if Scottish and English in their tux, have our cullenskink (soup) and my favourite haggis neeps and tatties. Then the address to the haggis, Burns of course. We had a wee dram on our haggis if liked and plenty of whisky the rest of the night. You would love it XTun.
New year was pretty wild too.
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#312 Susan
Sounds like great fun - I'll opt out of the haggis [being squeamish and not eating anything with a face] but a wee dram will do for me & I believe I still owe you a drink!
By the way I enjoyed your critiques of Major & Thatcher last week - have you done one on Blair?
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313 meninwhitecoats
Dint see your invitation!
Whats your tipple? Mines Bunnahabhain by choice but other single malts are acceptable.
Off to the pub soon , only real ale tho.
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312 Susan-Croft
Sounds great Croftie. Never tried the smoked haddock soup even tho its on the menu at my local.
I would imagine new year to be the wildest!
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I thought the men in darks suits or the gremlins had got into the system.
Relieved you are back online.
Can inform the blog,I have declared war on my company today as they have put a stop to my gardening leave and a stop on my salary without notice.
I have posted my application to the Indutrial Tribunal today,hence, let war begin.
It will be interesting to say the least as I have informed my company of a least 1/2 doz Protected Disclosures which surprise surpise cover the PFI schools also. Hence, we may get the attention of the right people via the back door.
Watch this space and keep your ears open for any good jobs for me??!! Consider anything suitable??!!
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Susan, I expect you to be posting on the Lloyds 4Bn loss this morning, not swapping haggis recipes! (great as a stuffing in roast turkey btw)
Was Glenrothes the most expensive by-election in political history?
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MORE BLUNDERS BY THE MOD
There is breaking news today that life saving equipment (Ridgeback Armoured vehicles) have been stuck in Dubai Port for the last 5 weeks owing to "paperwork".
Why the HELL are these vehicles being shipped to Afghanistan in the first place ,why don't they transport them in by Air and if we haven't got anything big enough,which I don't believe, ask the Yanks to ship them in or even the Russkies.
It beggars belief that these 50 vehicles which ARE armoured plated and WILL/WOULD save lives are being transported to the barttle front by SHIP.
Take you time guys,there's no rush.
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Good Morning Andrew,
great news breaking in respect of MoD Press Officer who is suing MoD for PTSD because of what he experienced at the funerals of the soldiers who were killed in Iraq/Afghanistan. You seriously cannot make this up, a Press Officer who alleges that he to lie to bereaved families. Please do not forget the case of the soldier who died in one of the theatres of war after heat exhaustion. It was said after the case that he had actually been sunbathing. Did the MoD lie to protect any compensation claim, when do the ends justify the means?
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Ref 318
Having seen a photograph of these ridgeback vehicles which are "STUCK" in Dubai and I bet the end users won't be over excited about them either WHENEVER they do arrive at the front, as they have full windscreen and full door glass as convential military vehicles. Yes, these ridgeback are better and safer than the "snatch landrover" but they have not been PLATED as would be expected for front line duties, no wheel/tyre protection either. Putting that aside, doesn't it make you blood boil at the levels of incompetence of the MOD.
Maybe I could get a job at the MOD??!!
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Good morning each & Andrew.
I was busy elsewhere yesterday afternoon so I have not had time to read through all that has been said since. But...
to jrperry @311
"'standard deviation'. Of say +/- 2%."
This was a 'merry-quip' as picked up by yellowbelly1959 @300. And no oil, simply I pine for an election just like the Afghanis and the Iraqis.
To Susan-Croft @309
I am a vegetarian...so you can have my share of Aberdeen Angus, gratis.
I do enjoy vegetarian haggis when I can get it. My old supplier 'McSweens' of Edinburgh closed their shop some time ago. (sigh!)
What a fuuny old world this is.
As I type there is Burn's address to the Haggis read on radio4.
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I would like to know where these Ridgeback Armoured Vehicles have been sourced from because if Uncle Sam supplied them, why would he ship them into Dubai,why not straight into the Port of Karachi. Are they second hand vehicles from the US withdrawals from Iraq? They might be surplus US stock from Saudi?. Whatever the explanation, there is no reason or justification that CRITICAL fighting equipment should be subject to "PAPERWORK" in Dubai.
Shame on you MOD and as for the Minsister of Defence, have you tried the clubs as a comedian maybe??!!
I just don't accept the delays in getting CRUCIAL gear to the front line.
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An alleged terrorist plot on military bases in Australia has been thwarted. (BBC news last night)
The Somali and Lebanese born plotters are alleged to have trained at an al Qaeda linked camp in Somalia.
After Afghanistan is it next stop Somalia? It's like mole hills. Flatten one, a new one pops up.
It will be interesting to see what Australia's response under the Rudd administration is; somehow I don't see them invading Somalia.
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Question to the Mods please.
Ref my 320 & 322 ,who is YOU??,should that not read Exxonmobil or are you receiving Chineese bloggers??!!
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TheBlameGame
If anything was going to stir me this morning it was the results from Lloyds I literally threw my pen across the desk when the news came in. This is much worse than I was expecting.
Playing politics with our banks is just destroying not only our banking system but eating up vast amounts of taxpayer money. Expect more bad news to come. This Governments policies have been a disaster for banking. We have no competition in the market anymore, there will be less credit available and the taxpayer is having to foot the bill for all those who have behaved irresponsibly. By not calling in the debt and retrieving something from this mess the taxpayer is left holding the bill. This is just about keeping votes pure and simple.
Where on earth is the commonsense, they are all hopeless even opposition. This merger should never been allowed to happen its repercussions will be awful. HBOS was known to be a totally toxic bank, with very few good assets, this must have been known to the Government because everyone else knew it. It should have been allowed to fail. Glenrothes must indeed be the most expensive bi-election in history.
The only options now are to break all these big banks up return them all into the private sector under proper management. All the Government is using them for is money machines to prop up their debt no wonder no one can get credit its all going to Government. Thats probably why Darling hung onto the dreadful FSA to carry on their spending, the BOE would have stepped in long ago.
With the Government making the bankers public enemy number one, it has enabled them to pull the wool over the publics eyes and everyone elses as well by the look of it.
When is someone in the media or opposition going to wake up and say this is all wrong, wrong, wrong. The only thing which could spoil my day more, is if yet again they drag the totally inept Vince Cable in to talk his usual nonsense about the wonders of nationalization.
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Ref320 322 & 324.
Who is YOU. Should this not read my name Exxonmobil. Surely, not the men in dark suits,ah, there's the a knock at the door, ah, arg . YOU did it??!!
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Ref 326. Well done the MODS, You is no longer with us,EXXON is back.
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My 325
That should read Susan-Croft who is you?
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I have to restrain myself from commenting on all the incompetence I witness or I'd explode.
The Government must be congenitally stupid to consider bringing in rules that say that after 10 years UK citizenship could be denied due to anti British tendencies. How on earth could they do that ? The people would barely remember what country they came from. It's a sop to appear to do something, knowing it's totally unfeasibale. Another cynical ploy by the Government that will always put forward a lie in place of a policy.
Frank Fields views are probably more extreme than my own, but it does at least indicate that some Labour MP's are living in the real world. You must ask why we are waging war in Afghanistan when our borders are an open door to any criminal or terrorist who desires financial support. We're putting out a fire in the garden when the house is burning down. An exaggeration - undoubtedly, but why are fighting wars abroad when we have no control of who is coming in through every door and window ? The million or so illegal immigrants the Home Office is pondering giving amnesty to could all be terrorists for all they know. Unlikely but who knows ? Not the Home Office.
Our entry laws (for those who bother to comply with them) are a joke. I could direct you to the website of a fake educational establishment
that has been running for years. The horror is that in allowing crime to flourish on the back of lax immigration control, immigrants are being put in the hands of criminal gangs who fleece them left right and centre.
It isn't beneficial to immigrants to allow criminals to prey on them. The knee jerk reaction of Labour is to call anyone wanting immigration control a racist, but they are responsible for a system that is a Godsend to human traffickers and terrorists.
Forget Afghanistand and Somalia - the safest place for a terrorist to operate is the UK.
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Ref 325 Susan Croft
I agree with you 100% but at least you are able to blog under your name, the mods keep refering to me as YOU and I don't mean YOU as in SC. If they are not kicking me into touch they give me the wrong name??!!
TAGGY has been saying for months we are doomed and I tend to agree with him but not only are we d-o-o-m-e-d, wehaveney haggis.
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324. At 12:03pm on 05 Aug 2009, XEXXONMOBIL wrote:
Question to the Mods please.
Ref my 320 & 322 ,who is YOU??,should that not read Exxonmobil or are you receiving Chineese bloggers??!!
------------------------------
Regarding YOU. I am having the same problem on Robert Peston's blog, but I read all your posts here (inc 320 and 322) as XEXXONMOBIL. I guess they have just implemented a software upgrade...
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'You' is the new me. Or is me the new you?
Just posting this to see if I am 'you'.
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XEXXONMOBIL 327
Thats all very well but I have got it instead. Me being susan-croft.
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XEXXONMOBIL
How did you get rid of this (you) I have put in a complaint to the moderator but they have not returned me to my proper name.
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...this 'you' thing.
I have come across this sort of thing before in conjunction with an ability to access the posts of a given name only. So that 'you' could look back on 'your' previous posts.
We shall see.
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So the blog is up and running again but with some confusion I gather.
Wonder who I am?
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I did not try this before...but it woks now. Click on a name....see their comments.
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Lloyds TSB was rather like a hormonal teenager who had been turned down so many times, when it was given a wink, it leapt in with its brains governed by another part of its anatomy.
Having seen our banks show a degree of carefree incompetence unparalelled in modern history there should not be any issue of bonuses when the flip side of what should happen when they drive their companies to failure has not yet been addressed.
I worked for a bank all my working life and must admit that I found their 'new age' attitudes irritating and 'lame'. They are insistent on having my mobile number, to irritate me all day long trying to sell me pet insurance or some poor investment. Friends get my mobile number and others get my landline. Incorrigible marketers get my free (to me) UK redirect number which is very expensive to call, and they go straight to my cheery answerphone.
I was blocked from my internet banking until I entered a phone number. Now they've got one. I trust they're happy.
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xTunbridge 336
You is you, I did not see it at first, as it started out alright with my first post then it changed when XEXXON lost you and I seemed to become you.
You should have tried that soup, now both you and coats own me a drink, for not explaining that you is you.
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I wondered what YOU were all gabbling on about until YOU (I) signed in. Obviously some clever software upgrade!
I'll get back on my eggs now.
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324+ish
In the spirit of 'a novel blogging system's experiment's consequences shared, are a novel blogging system's experiment's consequences shared...'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/michaelcrick/2009/08/a_totnes_moment_in_electoral_h.html#P83853525
This blog needs YOU!
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ExMo and all.
I heard of this place today on 'The Media Show' BBC-R4 1:30-2:00pm.
It may be of use re your DCC schools etc.
http://www.journalism.co.uk/
Apparently you ask a question, this is picked up by others (would be journalists etc.)on the blog. They have already uncovered council overspends and had them put in the public eye.
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THIS YOU THING
I have just got in from a nice long jog&workout,plus shower and switched on this blog and not yet stopped laughing at this YOU THING.
Could be new software , could be an x M.O.D. employee, could be men in dark suits trying to confuse us,gremlins,who knows as long as we can all have a good giggle.
Thanks for all the comments,so funny.
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Ref 343
That are STILL at it,I am not you,I am me a.k.a Exxonmobil
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Ref 342 Oudies
Thanks Oudies,I am onto it.
best regards You,me,and Exxonmobil
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340. Dorset_wurzel
Thanks for the link Dorset, it took me from Rustigjongens' post to the story about the government spending over £38M a year on lobbying...the government.
For e.g. £1.6M in taxpayer funding for major think tanks – Demos, the New Economics Foundation; the Institute for Public Policy Research and the New Local Government Network.
"It is shocking that such a large amount of taxpayers' money is being spent by Governement lobbying the Government. It is wasteful for quangos to hire lobbyists in order to persuade government to increase their budgets, and it is morally wrong for Government to bankroll political allies. Channelling taxpayers' money to supposedly independent organisations raises the danger that the Government has effectively bought external support for their own policies."
Matthew Sinclair, Research Director at the TaxPayers' Alliance
Corrupt doesn't even begin to describe this 'government'.
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Susan-Croft, XEXXONMOBIL and others, regarding this "you" thing, as the Beatles said:
"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together."
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Re my 347
Or as The Who sang: "Who are you, who, who, who, who! I really wanna know"
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THIS YOU THING
It would appear that I am the only one affected by this YOU thing and I have checked back and they first started to do it about a week ago around 147ish.
The MODS appear to have it in for me don't they?.
The only way around it is Place Exxonmobil at the top of all my posts.
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Andrew
Please hurry back and kick your MODS up the backside.They keep refereing to me as YOU,I am not you,I am me,a.k.a. EXXONMOBIL.
They have been refering to me as YOU for over one week now and I am getting a bit pi--- off with them.
I am not YOU,I am me.
I understand several other people have suffered the same problems with the MODS refering to them as YOU, they can't be YOU because I am YOU.
best regards
Exxonmobil sometimes known as YOU.
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eXmO@349
Steady there.
To each of us OUR posts are marked 'you' AND you can search via 'our' names to see (all?) that we have uttered on the beeb.
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337. Oudeis
That search facility has always been there Ouds, the only thing that's changed is our moniker now shows as 'you' on our own pages. Obviously came with the upgrade or whatever they've installed.
Now back to more important matters like the rise and fall of the New Labourian Empire, the Ashes and Scottish culinary delights.
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meninwhitecoats 313
Blair is not hard at all because he was not really a Prime Minister, he was a showman. Blair was determined early on in life that he was going to make his mark in the World in one way or another. He was a total egoist. He is proof that you can fool all the people all of the time. Unfortunately he was not really that bright (his tutors thought little of him and were glad see the back of him if reports are correct) enough to hold the top job in the Country, how he got there is rather easy to see.
He wanted to be a rock star and modelled himself on Mick Jagger, not really a character you would envisage becoming a PM. When he failed at becoming a rock star he then thought about becoming a rock music promoter when he moved to London he failed at that. You can see a pattern developing here.
The one thing Blair did have is charm, he has a manner which makes you feel included, he comes across as informal and charismatic. Behind the smile of course there is a man of steel, who is cold, calculating and unbending when he has made his mind up. He also developed a zeal for religion and in his mind politics and this became one.
His career shows you that he had no real affiliation to any party in particular he just wanted to be PM once he entered politics. It could have been Labour or Conservative. Foot was really the first person to notice him and at the time Blair declared himself to be leftwing and believed in unilateral nuclear disarmament that was sure to impress Foot. Seems odd to see him in this light now.
He married Cherie Blair and I believe she developed his taste for becoming wealthy by being in office. With so little talent in the Labour party it was easy for Blair to promote himself.
Most of all Blair was lucky, with the dying days of the Conservative party he produced a new idea (probably not his, Mandelsons and Campbells I would imagine) to win. Why not move the labour party to the centre ground and call it New Labour, this would surely fool middle class voters. Everyone associated with Labour including the Unions were so desperate to gain office that they signed up. Brown, the only other contender was sidelined for Blair. He had already made sure that he had got the media on board whom he and his associates used to great effect.
Now in 1997 he had won the election, and I think it was at this point he realised that he did not have a cross section of talented people to run the departments within Government. Thus all the failures we have seen. However he was lucky again. Princess Diana died and he was able to display and lead a feeling of emotion throughout the Country to show that he cared. He continued to be lucky with the economy, which he did not control. Brown closed the door to him on this. It was the development of spin, use of the media, luck in the economy that the Conservatives had built, which kept New Labour alive.
Blair to me was neither wise nor a strong leader, his weakness in not sacking Brown because of fear, helped to bring us to the position we have now. What he was, was stubborn which made him incapable of taking advice no matter how poor the potential outcome would be.
He had decided he was going to invade Iraq and he did, someone else had to find the means by which he could do it. In his head I believe his religious zeal had a great part to play in this decision. He decided to act more like a President than a PM.
Nevertheless, he also knew when to quit hoping he could leave his mess behind him. However time will prove him wrong I believe.
History will see Blair as a failed leader, who led a Government that brought Britain to its knees, who was the person who eroded our civil liberties. The two wars will be his lasting legacy and yet again another failure to add to his list.
As with Obama, rhetoric, which Blair did very well, is no proof of substance, I hope we learn that someday. As Brown destroyed out economy, Blair was busy destroying the rest of our way of life.
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339 Susan-Croft
It appears you is me and you and everyone else.
Bit odd looking for YOU instead of my handle. Surely it should be ME as I am looking for it?
Get used to it tho. But puzzled why it needed changing.
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Blair was a pal of Berlusconi wasn't he ?
Enough said.
The Ant and Dec of political statesmanship.
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hi Susan, how come everyone else's blogs come up with the correct name ... TAG, Mobil, Yellow etc ... but yours just say written by "You" ?? - I'm having to guess which are the Croft Originals - quite easy as it happens (if you know what you're looking for) but still ...
odd
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sagamix 356
I might be tired but not that tired. You is you, we all know that now. Anyway I thought you would be on the other side looking after Harriet.
Croft originals are just that.
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357 Susan-Croft
Croft original a rather nice sherry that is neither dry nor cream.
Liked your potted Blair.
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#353 Susan
Thanks for that though maybe it was more Tio Pepe than Crofts - a refreshing dry appetiser.
I know from previous exchanges you are not sure of Obama - I still think he has more depth than Blair who was a cardboard cutout of a politician.
As soon as Campbell & Mandelson lost control he lost his teflon coating.
Away for a day and the blog has gone mad - does everyone know who they are now?
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I see the new speaker John Bercow is up to the old tricks again,i.e. 20Kpounds of taxpayers money to refurbish his grace-favour flat.
Exxon.
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Oh well,alright then, change my name to YOU.
Good night all.
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The M.O.D. take the biscuit with this statement on the Military Vehicles stuck in Dubai.
Quote
"We will not put lives at risk by asking soldiers to drive these vehicles without the necessary training."
What a load of old Bull-----, it's Ok then to use the snach land rovers which are not fit for purpose.
Exxonmobil a.k.a. You
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
So on top of the actual procurement of militaty equipment we cannot even get a report on the procurement process out on time! This is beyond a joke. Once again we have reward for failure. Don't worry that you have failed to delivered what you promised - we will just wrap in up in some other review that will never happen. Of course the other theory is that the report has been done but someone did not like what was in it! Either way it is not good.
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Good Morning Andrew,
I have a problem which I hope some of your commenteers might just be able to help me with. Now back in March April 2006 we had that prince of the realm, Harry 'we do bad things to bad people', on our screens saying that he wanted to be with his men on the front line (in Iraq) and that if he didn't go with them then he felt he would be letting them down and that he would have to leave the army or say refuse a posting to Germany (I paraphrase). Now I think that his comments were tantamount to refusing orders and therefore he should have been courts martialled.
What happens? he was sent to Afghanistan, in secret with the collusion of the British media where he is shown calling up an air strike on a computer and we see the result of the attack. We also see him with a heavy machine gun and walking through towns well surrounded by other personnel, the towns having probably been well swept for IEDs. So, where is Harry now, where is prince William now. That's right training on helicopters, why aren't the 'choppers on the front line where they are needed. I will never forget William (Bill to his military friends like the heroes in WWI were Bill, or Bert, good honest English name) taking time out from his training to get to his girl friend for a week-end away.
I find it hilarious the way in which William and harry can just disapear for months on end. What exactly is the point on training them, they will do nothing, the front is now much too dangerous for Harry, it was possibly due to his presence that the occupation has escalated to the extent which it has.
Afghanistan is a disaster, it is time to withdraw, what exactly have we been doing since 2001 when we had some sort of moral authority to be there, but now, I'm sorry we have lost, time to retreat and to leave the collaborators to their fate. What exactly has happened to the police and soldiers which we are meant to have trained. Just like we have abjectly failed to protect those ineterpretors who are in severe danger in Iraq because we have just dumped them. Worst of all though I hope that massive sums of money have not been squandered on equipment which we have just handed over to the Iraqis, whilst our soldiers continue to suffer from lack of equipment.
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#353 susan
I think you are being a little harsh on Mr Blair. My impression is that he was a good leader of the Labour party and a reasonable PM. Why do I think this? Well, firstly he turned around the Labour party from a squabbling rabble to an electable force. Yes others were involved but a leader uses the tools at his/her disposal. And, yes the govn of the time were politically in a mess but you can only beat the team you are up against. So on this front Labour not only got in but stayed in for a long, long time. I gauge him as a reasonable PM because again he acted as a leader and used the best people available to him. There was never any doubt he was the leader but also no doubt that other ministers led in their departments.
Right that was the good stuff. Mr Blair certainly loses points because he failed to listen to his people. Sometimes this actually marks a good leader but not so over Iraq. The benefit to the UK was only ever going to be tangible at best. He, and his govn also went mad on new laws and tinkering with everything. I think it got to a state, and possibly still is, where there were/are too many reforms / restructuring /initiatives / pilot studies / green and white papers etc. etc. This led to knee-jerk reactions and no time to let change settle in or reflect on success or failure. Unfortunately for TB this will probably be his legacy.
Oh, forget his best point - he kept GB out!
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Ref 367.
Wurzel, I can some up TB is just one word, FRAUD.
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The modserators changed my name to YOU on the 27th July ref post#99 on the story about Shelly A Stark, could that story lie behind it??!!
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Ref 369 .
When I posted this it came up on the screen as XEXXONMOBIL (awaiting moderation) but then when the mods finish with it it will show up as YOU, no, not YOU,me,a.k.a. as EXXONMOBIL??!!.
Why are the BBC enforcing this name change upon me. I don't see any other name changes.
Evil forces,men in dark suits,UFO , there HAS to be a reason.
H-E-L-PPP
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Ref 357 Susan Croft
No Susan, YOU is not Sagamix, YOU is me,a.k.a. EXXONMOBIL.
All posts with YOU on is not actually You ,it is ME.
Confusing isn't it??!!
I am at a loss to understand why they haven't corrected it yet. I wanted to change my name to Flash Lightning but the BEEB have imposed a mandatory change on me to YOU, no, not you but me. Wouldn't have been so bad had they given a fist name of Oi
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Ref 359
Just the man I need to talk to Maninwhitecoat. Who am I, am I YOU,am I me,am I Exxonmobil??!!
How much longer must I take this brainwashing from the BEEB, help me p-l-e-a-s-e-e Meninwhitcoats, I am NOT,repeat, NOT YOU,I am ME ,A.K.A Exxonmobil??!!
Whilst I am awaiting moderation on my posts,it ALWAYS shows up as Exxonmobil, not YOU but when finally approved,they change it to YOU, no not you but me,i.e.YOU, it shouldn't be YOU,it should be me,i.e. EXXONMOBIL.
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Dorset_wurzel 367
I actually think I was kinder to Blair than he deserves. Yes the Labour Party was reformed, not by Blair, probably by Mandelson and Campbell, Blair is not bright enough in my opinion. It however was reformed on untruths to win over middle class voters. Also all the promises on tax, were a complete untruth as they came in the form of stealth taxes. His Government did not deliver any of the pledges they made to voters. Blairs Government spent their time sucking up to the media, Going to war and undermining our civil liberties.
When the files are eventually opened on Blairs time in office, both before his election and after, I can guarantee you will be shocked at what really lay behind the Blair mask.
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Good morning each & Andrew.
XEXXONMOBIL.
Those chosen capitals I oft can see,
Like all good things, "In moderation",
Here and there expanded are,
and do so stand in perpetuation
What logic can we here apply,
What else does eXmO signify,
Who can appear both staunch and true,
Who else dear eXmO if not YOU
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Ref 374
Nice one Oudies.
I am Not dening that YOU is definetly me (Exxon) but WHY are they insisting on using YOU and not my assisigned name ,i.e. Xexxonmobil. Could it be that I am sailing a wee bit close to the truth or the real name of the oil giant.
I don't want to be called YOU, no, not you but me,I want to be called EXXONMOBIL or Flash Lightning.
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367 wurzel re 353 Susan-Croft
You actually support Croftie in your post. He was a very good leader but led everybody in the wrong directions based on spin and lies.
And he let Brown in in the end in vaguely strange circs. Blairs departure was almost as quick and mysterious as Wilsons.
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#373 susan
I am no great fan of Mr Blair but I did and still do support the idea of investment. But I wanted investment in services NOT throwing money onto a bonfire and tinkering around the edges. I give him credit for his leadership and winning elections. I am shocked by the degeneration of society and the way the mainly law-abiding are penalised. Everywhere you go we are being told to stop doing something, or stop going somewhere and this is usually by govn organisations. For me TB has done some good, mainly failed to deliver and in some areas made a complete pig's-ear.
PS. Bizarrely though the stealth taxes were brought about because they did not want to go back on their promises.
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Sometimes I do despair for our country.
Tony Blair ? - after reforming the Labour Party (though he was only the cardboard cut out front man) he tried the same trick on the Catholic church, which was pretty naive. Henry VIII'th failed and Tony I'st wasn't going to do any better on that mission.
"David Cameron 'would appoint Minister for Afghanistan'"
How about a viceroy perhaps ?
Afghanistan is one unmitigated disaster and it has nothing to do with the performance of the troops. There are wars of necessity and wars of choice, and the public apply different rules of acceptability to both. Milliband tried limply to 'sell' it as a war of necessity but he carries all the weight of a sixth form prefect trying to appear adult and his argument is illusory.
I notice that more recently the foe in Afghanistan has reverted, from the Taliban, back to Al Quaeda. Watch this very carefully as it'll be an indicator of an important political shift.
Shall we be honest with ourselves ? (can't you tell I'm no politician ?). Any militant Muslim group is likely to develop an offshoot with the desire to launch attacks aganst the West. Giving them a specific name is completely baffling and muddying the waters. There are troubles in Nigeria, Somalia, Indonesia, Pakistan, China, Chechnya and elsewhere and there is precious little in the way of a coherent structure joining any of them.
It would be politically dangerous to suggest that there is a conflict between Islam and the West, so it is necessary to give those groups a separate title to insinuate that they are small factions. The tragedy is that in doing this, the West's strategy in sending in armed troops, merely reinsforces the belief in Muslim countries that we are engaged in some form of mission to impose Western culture on Islamic countries.
By taking a 'pc' view, we are adopting a very non 'pc' strategy. Our troops are only stirring up more anti-West sentiment and the argument that some dusty outposts in Afghanistan are terrorist training camps maybe true, but they represent no threat to a country that protects its borders. We will never countenace taking the same action in Somalia, the Yemen or Indonesia, and our troops are stuck in Afghanistan for the foreseeable future, so we couldn't even if we wanted to.
To my knowledge the Taliban aren't a terrorist group, though they may harbour anti-Western tendencies and some factions within it may support terrorism, The government then has a problem, after convincing us that the're a terrorist group, if they tell us that they're going to negotiate with them. The problem being that the government fed us a 'comic book' polictically correct version of the situation at the outset.
Of course - we are just the simple minded electorate and our political masters are demi-Gods who now so much better than we do.
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#359 Exxonmobil??!!
YOU know I could arrange for one of my MIWCs to come and take you away to a calmer place with nice padded walls if it would help?
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Aaah now I understand I ahve just been You'd!
Cancel the padded cell.
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...Bankers in the news again?
Another Banker/Businessman/Entrepreneur/Blue-sky thinker; convicted and given a suspended sentence.
No mention of this Loan Shark repaying money, no mention of the victims debts being paid off.
No incentive for such people to stop being Loan Sharks to encouragement for their victims to come forward.
"It's the rich what gets the pleasure and the poor what gets the blame..."
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Ref 378 &380
Thanks MEIWC but I have not you'd you, I am the ONLY one to have been YOU'D thus far.
I can't get to the bottom of this but keep me a padded cell ,just in case.
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eXmO.
Please, each of us is 'you' as far as we each see. ExMo, and everybody else BUT me, on the other hand has their name in full on my screen.
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Ref 383.
Oudies,is that a Riddle?
Can you not see what I am ranting about . I don't want to see YOU,I want to see Exxonmobil at the top of the post.
Have'nt seen anyone else as YOU, have you??!!
I think there is a conspiracy to crack me up and MIWC has already offered a padded cell.Don't mind ,as long as I share with Susan??!!
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#384
I see only me referred to as 'you'.
I do not see any point to it. But as fas as I can tell this whole thing is no more directed at you than at any of us.
To me and to all others here you (sorry) are yet XEXXONMOBIL. Tis writ large atop each of the comments 'you' post.
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XEXXONMOBIL 384
I will gladly share. You know this you is you, is really causing some problems. You see I am still you. However on Nicks site some people appear not to be you but someone else entirely. So you may think you are you but you might be someone else.
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#386
Susan; thank you for your help.
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#384/385
"You" does revert to your user name when you sign out, if that is any help.
#386 You little hussey , first Tunbridge's bike now Xexxon's padded cell
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...If only 'you' were changed to 'one' then when one's on one would see what one has done once one has done one could then be gone.
Every little helps.
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meninwhitecoats 388
I know a good thing when I see it.
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390 Susan
Shall I send you my photo?
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THIS YOU THING.
That's just the point I am making Oudies, EXXONMOBIL is NOT written across the top of my posts,it is during moderation when I first post them but after that, this YOU thing takes over.Take 376-382-384 for example, it does not say Exxonmobil on the top it sez'YOU.
Well,at least it does on my PC.
Anyway, I am awaiting, MIWC to come round and pick me up as I have a shared padded cell with Susan??!! I bet YOU wish YOU were me now, well, me,I am just glad I am YOU??!!
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Ref 392.
There you are Oudies, my comment whilst waiting moderation is ALSO entitled YOU.
Ref 388 MIWC, I don't sign in and out, I just visit the site and post my blogs.
Anyway, what time are you sending the green van and MIWC.
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meninwhitecoats 391
No need to, I have you all in my minds eye...............
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393 Xexxon
Just waiting to find when Susan is ready.....
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395 meninwhitecoats
First one in gets the round in?
There is some new totty over at Nicks who is proving very popular, think she would come?
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#396
So that's a white wine for Croftie, real ale for you, G&T for me and a gallon of 4 star for Xexxon then?
Not interested in the new "totty" - quite happy with what we have got.
Guess it's my round as I definitely owe Croftie one - especially now she has seen my photo!
...bit like the mentalist eh Susan?
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#366
Now this is a strange one. As may be realised I am T A Griffin (TAG) and I don't mind who knows it. However, looking at my #366 I notice that I have been changed to you. Now I am me, I will never be you, so how have I became you, not me. Confused, don't be I am you and you are me together we can find the truth, the truth is out there, trust me I'm a believer.
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397 meninwhitecoats
Seriously my friend have a look at the new girl, 3 blogs in one day and all hard hitting without any spin.
Nick had better look out.
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Good Evening Andrew,
I thought that I would let the world know that I have passed DD306 'Living Political Ideas' with the Open University and that I nearly have my B A (Hons) Politics, Philosophy and Economics with the OU. So all you politicians, philosophers and economists had better watch out, I mean at this rate I may well become as ignorant as some of the experts would seem to have been over so many issues.
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meninwhitecoats 397
Theres a definite resemblance, I just knew there would be. You still owe me a drink, late again.
xTunbridge 396
You fickle little thing.
T.A. Griffin (TAG) 400
Well done, you should be proud.
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Morning All
I am sure you are all aware but the NR blog has come alive again. Well worth checking out. There has been lengthy balanced entries and updates.
Appears that the govn have sat on the report but it has leaked. Where was the new era of honesty? I am sure we were told it was not finished.
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399. At 00:10am on 07 Aug 2009, xTunbridge wrote:
397 meninwhitecoats
Seriously my friend have a look at the new girl, 3 blogs in one day and all hard hitting without any spin.
Nick had better look out.
Indeed.
However.... for some reason (I surmise below), the number of posts is currently significantly down.
This may be a problem. The market rate talents of the boxtickocracies need measures to justify their worth, and hence, regardless of the value of meeting the theoretical main remit (quality journalism) one tends to find that controversy pays better and hence gets hired and protected. Think Polly T in the Grauniad (at the BBC, on occasion). Or, for 'balance', the new Telegraph commentariat regime, where some new bloggers boast of being hired just to provoke. Any old nonsense will do as long as you can crank up a 500+ thread, even if it is folk going 'Huh?'.. or worse.
As many have already mentioned, I am settling in to savour more factual, objective reporting, with links and without narratives being enhanced or events being interpreted thanks to unique access and bestowed briefings resulting in little more than unsubstantiated gossip and spin.
Which may well mean I don't need to comment as the topic is served. Executives please take note. Numbers don't always mean quality. Noise need not accompany light for full sensory illumination.
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399. xTunbridge wrote:
397 meninwhitecoats
Seriously my friend have a look at the new girl, 3 blogs in one day and all hard hitting without any spin.
Nick had better look out.
=
I see the gestapo over there have already removed the most recent comments, mine included, praising her fresh and professional approach as opposed to that of NR.
How sad is that?
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Ref 398 TAG.
That's very strange TAG because I have just checked out your 366 and its DEFINITELY got TAG as the authour not YOU.
Surely YOU know that I am YOU and I have been YOU for a couple of weeks .Surely,there can't be 2 YOU out there.
Well done on the Open University.
Bad news on the personal front for me, my gardening leave as been suspended and I find myself on the Rock & Roll, without further notice my salary was being stopped.
Why would my company pay me gardening leave for 7 months and then suddenly pull the plug on me??!! My paperwork to the Industrial Tribunal is on its way as we speak. The war has begun, so MIWC please put my padded cell on hold for a wee while as I expect to be busy on ANOTHER front.
Susan, don't panic, the cell is BOOKED.
My Industrial Tribunal will be V interesting as I am using "Protected Disclosures" which I understand is about as rare as rocking horse poo. I am also using Prescribed Persons" which is also very rare. My prescibed persons are 1. HSE.2.Ben Bradshaw. 3.Office of Rail Regulator (ORR). That should be interesting.
Watch this space.
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Re: the other place
I have read Laura's summaries and they seem clear and concise - have not had time to follow the blogs in detail though, as I am trying to catch up on work after being flued up for a few days [not the dreaded swine variety].
Shame the mods are being heavy handed.
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405 Xexxon
Good luck with the tribunal - I have kept an option open on the room.
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WHAT A FOOL I HAVE BEEN.
Million appologies guys with this YOU thing, I actually signed out for the first time today and low and behold all my YOU posts were changed to Xexxonmobil. I think it was Oudies-MIWC or XT that suggested this,hence, thanks guys.
What a dipstick , never mind, at least I know there are no men in dark suits ufo, etc. I was very tempted to conceal the truth at the prospect of the padded cell with Susan but I am a man of morals and I just had to tell you all what a clown I am.
I have never signed in and out since joining the blog several months ago,hence, I am at a loss to understand why the YOU thing suddenly arrived. However, I have had a good chuckle with the YOU thing and I do thank all the people that have respond to YOU,I mean me.
So TAGGY, sign out mate and come back in.
Thanks for your patience guys.
MIWC.
Cancel the van and the cell mate please and Susan, how about a weekend away instead of the Padded Cell??!!
Or should we wait to see if the padded cell IS required sometime later.
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408 Xexxon
Welcome to my world.....
Seriously though it has been great to follow you the last few days.
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#408
eXmO;
What frabjous joy.
Proof positive [as if any were needed] that you are no political flunky.
You walk the walk, if I may make so bold. :)
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#408
eXmO;
What frabjous joy.
Proof positive [as if any were needed] that you are no political flunky.
You walk the walk, if I may make so bold.
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#411
I cannot tell a lie; the PC human interface sometimes is all too human; that human was I.
P.S.
Well done 'you' TAG with the OU. It could easily have been 'oi you'.
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I only wish every newspaper would follow the lead of the Times and make their news 'pay per view' then I wouldn't read it. Most of it just makes me want to hurl something at my Teddy bear and that's hardly fair.
It does seem like a foolhardy way to banish yourself to obscurity.
What is their purpose ? Opinion forming or making money. I foresee this step will not allow them to do either.
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#413 GomerPyle
It is a shame that the print media are unable to break even.
Alas the biggest savings/increase in earnings for newspapers charging for online content comes from cutting out the middle man; the newsagent.
Phew! At least this way the high earners will continue to coin it in.
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XEXXONMOBIL 405 408
I would happily share either with you.
Oh XEXXON I do hope everything is going to be alright for you. I do not like the sound of this tribunal very much.
PLease let us know how you are getting on, regularly please.
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Ref 415 Susan Croft. Wow.
Thank you for those few kind words Susan and please don't worry about the Tribunal,I will be OK. I am currently taking on the World's biggest Oil company in Exxonmobil,hence, taking on one of the biggest construction companies in the UK will be a breeze. I have nothing to lose, as I will represent myself,hence, no legal charges.
Believe me Susan,it will not go the full course because at the end of the day, this particular Company will not want to be connected to the charges I bring to the table but time will tell and sure, I will keep the blog posted of events. For obvious reasons,I can't be precise but we are all good at reading between the lines.
Please also note I am now Exxonmobil2 as I had to reapply for my membership for some unkown reason.
Ref 409 MIWC and 411 Oudeis.
Thanks also for your comments guys.
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404 the blame game
Not only are "they" removing many posts on Lauras site but now all the previous blogs are closed and the current one has no comment facility.
I know one should always consider cock-up before conspiracy but????????/
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It seems you were allowed to praise Laura Kuenssberg on the Nick Robinson blog site but not to say how much more professional she is to Nick. (one of my posts was deleted).
However, even praise of Laura is no longer possible (as poster of comment 417 says) since no comments are currently allowed.
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xTunbridge 417
It has made me really nervous about posting on Nicks site or even on here, because I have had about 7 posts removed all which were on topic, very tame and nothing at all in them to cause offence. All the BBC have said are they are off topic, but they were not.
I dislike the new format over on Nicks, despite Laura who I think is very good. There is never enough time to develope the topic beyond the obvious because there are too many subjects all at once.
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419 Susan
Yes I was just about to reply to one of your posts ref HH and the blog closed down.
Very confusing having all those live blogs going at the same time - maybe people stay more on message but some of the best discussions are when a blog steers its own course.
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#419
Less is more.
Who knows what tomorrow might bring.
So... I read that Ronnie Biggs is enjoying an unguarded momment.
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yes, very strange - just as Susan and I were getting into a mutually stimulating debate on "equality" (which I was winning hands down) the Blog closes! - shuts down, what's worse, right after a 5000 word missive from La Croft herself, hence giving her the Last Word (well, typical woman I suppose) AND lending her final (rather messy, if truth be told) contribution the ill merited air of an authoratative "Summing Up" - soooo annoying - well at first it was, but then I got to thinking and I found myself more intrigued than anything else - I mean, it was almost like the Blog was kept open especially for Susan to deliver that last post ... the Last Post, sounds rather poignant, doesn't it? ... fact strike that, it wasn't ALMOST like that, it WAS like that - just like the Blog was being manipulated, behind the scenes, purely so as Susan (and not me) could have the final say - so, I dunno - don't want to be paranoid (there's too much of that around already) but what do you guys think? - co-incidence? ... or something more sinister?
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419 Susan-Croft
Hi Croftie
I do wonder who the mods are and how they are trained.
When we were discussing the NHS and the "E" word I had several posts removed which contained nothing more detailed than previous posts that stayed on.
If the removal of a post is a subjective choice of each mod we are in a lottery. Apparently some do get restored but the moment has gone then.
I know I keep floating Article 10 of the HRA but nobody bites. The right to hold and share opinions without interference from a public body. Surprised that didnt protect that cop who ran a site slagging off police procedures and the Home Office and was outed one of the quality broadsheets, that was in the public interest wasnt it???????
I agree Laura is very good but too productive. Not only too much but the blogs are closed even quicker than Nicks were.
Isnt Exon incredible, such energy.
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sagamix 422
Yes, I agree, that was a messy post, but I hope at least I was able to put across what I was trying to say. I am not making excuses but I have been working mostly from 5.30am until 7pm and I think it is catching up. I need a holiday. Still I cannot grumble there are a lot of people much worse off than me.
Do not worry after a good nights sleep I will be back to my fighting best.
Maybe I was just rushing to finish before the blog closed, now that would be a real conspiracy.
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xTunbridge 423
I do not know what is going on with the moderation but sometimes it takes a lot of valuable time to write a post of substance and it kind of hurts when it is taken off. Despite complaining for the very first time, not one was reinstated.
Exon worries me, I hope all goes well with him.
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DID THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION COMMISSIONER (FOIC)SCREW UP.
I think the FOICommissioner screwedup bigtime on his last decision ref my FOI request for Info on one of the Exeter PFI schools and I would be interested to hear any of your views.
If you do a simple google search under FOI decision FS50087446 you will find the FOI decision dated 2nd June 06 and this was the FOI original decision and I think he screwedup big time but they would not allow me to appeal against that particular decision.
As the regular readers of this blog know,I am currently awaiting another FOI request on another PFI school but I will not make the same mistake twice and should they reject my request,I will immediately appeal.
I draw your attention to para 4.3 which is very important because the Devon County Council admitted they used electronic management systems,i.e. Buzzasaw System, hence, it beggars belief the FOI accepted the DCC statement of 4 days to compile my request.
I cannot over emphasise the importance of Electronic Record Management Database Systems (ERMDS) which,incidently are an integral part of the FOI Act 2000.
I believe the FOIC erred on this decision because it would have only taken a few mins for DCC to compile my FOI request.
My current FOI will also be very interesting because the DCC have already informed the FOIC that they hold hard copies only, little fibbers.
ERMDS is of paramount importance and it was included in the FOI Act 2000 and data protection to improve and facilitate both acts and allow the transfer of electronic data.
This decision by the FOIC flys in the face of Justice and it beggars belief the FOI have published the decision.
I will be interested to get your feedback guys.
DCC have refused my latest request for one other PFI school stating they have hard copy only amd it will exceed the 450pounds to compile. Bull---- to both responses sez me.
Quite frankly, I think it is impossible for any authority to refuse a FOI citing they only maintain hard copies of such documentation.
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425 Susan_Croft
I know how you feel. I have very strong feelings about the way elderly people, especially those with dementia, are treated . To have several posts removed by an invisible censor who then gives no explanation, "off topic" or " breaks the house rules" is hardly adequate.
Do these mods not realize the time and passion that goes into our efforts.
Off to the pub, all will be well then!
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REF MY 426.
There is a legal requirement for ALL Government departments to operate Electronic Record Management Datbase System and it has been Law since 2004,hence it beggars belief the FOICommissioner upheld the Devon County Council decision against me as oulined in my 426.
I wonder how many other FOI have been rejected by cock&bull stories that the FOI request would take too long to compile.
Ref 425 Susan Croft.
I agree with you about the MODS and I think I have been kicked into touch more times than anyone.But I must admit they have been OK with me recently.
It's nice of you to worry Susan but rest assured, no need to worry, I will kick some serious ass come the IT and if I don't, nothing lost.
Hope you had a nice GT, bit late going to the pub,isn't it?? I am off to bed now,I have 36 hole Golf Compo tomorrow and I will need 4gall of 4star come this time tomorrow.
I can't tell you how nice it is for me to me instead of YOU. Still chuckling??!!
Gdnight all
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Still no comment facility on Lauras blog.
Clicked on her name just to see what ? Another closed blog dated 1st August 2007!
Its when she last stood in for Nick. Worth a look just for the comments
So everything is shutdown for maintenance the other day which turns out to be the "you" thing but the actual blog site is now inaccessible for comments. Why?
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425. At 9:55pm on 07 Aug 2009, Susan-Croft
I do not know what is going on with the moderation but sometimes it takes a lot of valuable time to write a post of substance and it kind of hurts when it is taken off. Despite complaining for the very first time, not one was reinstated.
Indeed. It seems a war of attrition is being waged. And not just on the poor old responding bloggers, but even the authors.
I can often fathom the possible justification for being booted, if not always agree with it. And despite some colourful exchanges when the mood has taken me and I fancied wasting some time (they only get so far), that word 'discretion' is like jelly to nail down.
One thing is for sure, it's a lot easier to get things banned than reinstated. Having had a polite reply to a snarky post about my style (admittedly I was being overly circumspect trying to find a BBC/mod-friendly way of discussing balance in ways of describing 'objective' contributor's actual affiliations) complained about and promptly removed, I pointed out it was a bit rich the original off topic ad hom was allowed to remain. Result: it was promptly ditched too.
Makes you wonder why they bothered setting up the system in the first place.
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#426
I went, I read...
The stumbling block, the reason the whole thing was brought up short,
[I mean all this in a good way dear eXmO, 'you' know I do]
was that you failed to appear to do as you were asked, one MUST appear to answer their points.
They asked for focus and had you narrowed your target the council would have had to come up with some justification of THEIR OWN for not giving you some information.
450 pounds represents all of 18hours work. So whether they keep the info as hard-copy or computer database you should try and keep your requests to points than can be fully respoded to within that time scale.
If it were posible to reference points made at the Planning Permission stage and/or that were otherwise documented would be a great help to you.
The public body MUST respond, the FOI body MUST check to see that you get an appropriate reponse.
The council made more of the 'fact' that you had also made 'serious allegations' against the council.
(it was not clear if this was a general point or whether this was a part of that FOI request--knowing you as I do)
If you cannot eat it in one go...then nibble at it.
All power to your elbow.
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Is it me or is it the Nick R. Blog which has gone wrong? Unable to post comment and this one scrambles - perhaps it's sabotage!
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/aug/08/harriet-harman-rod-liddle-spectator
Saga, you are Tanya Gold and I claim my bottle of Blue Nun.
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Blam Game Guardian clip - say no more! The last bastion of the Labour looney left with BBC Expletives in its last para. Country ruined under the Labour who will be wiped out soon and not voted in again for decades - if ever.
Harperson into space.
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thanks for the link, she's obviously ripping off some of my blogs!
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Re:426
I have had a further thunk.
Again I am being helpful, though with fewer than all the facts.
My approach to problems of this sort is to accept the posibility that some/few/one of the people that I communicate with might be concerned with the same matters that I am concerned about and that if they could help me they would.
I worry, whether it is my place to or no, that you begin your assaults on these bodies thinking you are a lone horseman against a bevy of dragons.
The easiest way to stay positive is to begin that way. Why not from the outset assume that there are people on your side and when they say (in terms) "that if only you could refine your aims a start could be made".
I hope that you have enjoyed your 'two rounds of coast' [if yours were a links course]
"You are never alone with a good idea"
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"Army chief: Afghanistan war could last 40 years"
Why oh why did we go in ?
With most of our armed forces tied up in a country of precious little strategic or economic significance, the Taliban or Al Quaeda (whatever we choose to call them) are free to operate in any of their other safe havens with impunity.
Afghanistan is their home ground and we appear happy to fight them on their own terms. The major successes occur when we use our technology in the form of drones to attack without any risk of taking casualties. The downside to that is that there will be innocent victims, but that happens in war, particularly when fighting insurgents.
In our regulated society these insurgents have a much reduced chance to operate and evade surveillance, which does however require us to operate some form of border control. The bizarre reality is that we appear to operate an open door policy to those countries from where terrorists originate.
I don't believe in Draconian immigration laws, though know that my view may causes me to be accused of harbouring latent racist tendencies, but it does at least avoid the necessity of having to wage a 40 year war against a country barely capable of feeding itself.
If it poses a threat, then isolate it. What we appear to be attempting to do in Afghanistan goes far beyond defeating a foe, and if I can be accused of racism then I would counter that we are operating cultural imperialism on a people who don't want Western culture.
Not everyone subscribes to Christian morality and we have no right to enforce it on others (not sounding racist now), and we are being selective in only attempting it with countries we believe to be weak. Chechnya, Tibet, North Korea, Somalia and Burma are just a few we aren't going get involved in.
The Government is already mired in controversy over payments to wounded soldiers and purchasing military hardware, which will be nothing as compared to the amount of aid that will be needed to support the country and government of Afghanistan. Over a 40 year period that expenditure will be colossal.
This has not been well thought out.
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Ref 436 and 431.
Thank you Oudies for your comments and recommendations and yes I will nibble away until satisfied I have done all I can do.
In respect of the FOI request, I hear your comments but I cannot accept the FOIC acted properly by agreeing with the DCC,however, that particular request is now history and lets see what the FOI does with the present one. It's has taken him nearly 12 weeks to assign a case worker,hence, I am not too impressed.
I do probably rock a few boats but I my intention is to sink them at the end of the day because the people I have been dealing with have had EVERY oppertunity to cooperate with me and ,yes,I may come across as a hard hitter and I don't appologise for that and maybe my frustrations show as well.
I don't doubt that some of the people I have made allegations against think I am a loose cannon but quite frankly,I don't give a damn what people think of me.
Whilst I welcome your comments and recommendation Oudies, I am too old to change my ways and I rather enjoy being a "lone horseman against a bevy of dragons" as you say. I have never run with the pack and neither will I run FROM the pack, might is not right in my book.
You are quite correct that "the council did make a lot of my allegations of wrongdoing" but did they investigate my allegations,no they did not. Authorites such as the DCC MUST be seen to have polices/procedures for such allegations and if they ain't seen to be working, then they sure as hell,aint working.
I am VERY supicious of "OFFICIALS" and people who speak with a gob full of plumbs, whom, treat the general public with disdain and I am refereing to DCC,Exeter City Council, World Bank/Exxonmobil and a few others whom I am trying to slay from my Horse,singlehanded.
If I am wrong,it is the easiest thing in the World for DCC to prove me wrong,ditto for the World Bank, hence, you might think I am a bit heavy handed.
Thank you Oudeis for taking timeout and to look at the FOI decision and for your recommendations.
My golf course is not a links course but still a lovely way to spend the day and whilst there,I never give a thought to skullduggery of Council Officials /World Bank officiers etc.
Thirty six holes today and I am going to have a couple of beers tonight.
Thanks again Oudies for your comments.
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TheBlameGame 433
I have never read such a load of tosh in all my life, coming from the Guardian as well, no surprise there then. Norway has become much richer year by year because of the vast quantities of oil and Gas off its shores. You could have a monkey in charge and you would get the same result. It is not down to women being in top positions.
Women are not getting into the top jobs because in most cases they do not have the skills to do so. No amount of positive discrimination will change that. They do not become engineers, and have little science knowledge which is contrary to men. They are not generally as mathematically inclined as men either.
Its the same reason in fact as to why we have to pay bonuses to people working in our financial sector. We do not have the skill base in this Country to fill these positions therefore we have to pay to attract the right people from other Countries. You can blame our poor education system for both the fact that women cannot compete and the situation we have in the City.
I would rather see Harman address the education concerns, than the ones she pursues at the moment.
If Harman becomes leader of the Labour party she will take the cause of women backwards and labour will be out of office for a very long time.
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438 exxonmobil2
Name change by deed poll ?
The two beers sounds good.
I think Oudies advice, softly softly catchee monkey in effect, is sound. I too enjoyed windmill tilting but sometimes it worked better just to aim for one sail.
If you wany ABC and D and get rebuffed, what harm to ask just for A ? Then B etc.
Help your blood pressure too.
Who is the FOIC answerable to ?
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I came across this Sky interview with Sion Simon, the 'creative industries' minister who will be reporting to Stephen Timms in his new role as man in charge of 'Digital Britain'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcS7i4wn01o
(If the link doesn't work see order-order.com, Thursday's entry.)
What an arrogant, patronising little ****. His spoof video of Cameron was bad enough but his interview here is unbelievable, who the hell does he think he is?? People of Birmingham, vote this clown out. And those who agreed to him being anywhere near public office.
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441 Blame
Just watched the link, initially I thought this is politics Cameron gives it he has got to take it but my blood boiled when he started talking about the kids - how reprehensible and tastless is this man [Sion Simon]? - whatever faults Cameron has, no one can doubt his feelings for his kids.
I just hope this oik get his just desserts come the next election - there is no place for him in parliament.
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#439 Susan
Must disagree with you there, two of the most able people I have worked with were women both with towering intellects.
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442. meninwhitecoats
Yes, agree about the give and take in politics, but the kids and wife reference was in bad taste - from the Damian McBride school of politics.
But his attitude and reaction to what was polite questioning by most standards from the anchorwoman in the Sky interview really got up my nose. What a jumped up self-important waste of space. Just a pity it wasn't a tougher anchor asking the questions.
He has a pretentious title, 'minister for creative industries', to match his pretentious demeanor.
Shave his pretentious coiffe off and send him to Afghanistan is my solution.
I think I've got that out of my system now.
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Ref 440 XTunbridge.
Thanks XT and I am sure Oudies has my interests at heart and I am thankful for ALL coments.It is however,VERY frustrating dealing with these clowns and they just will not cooperate, which is maddening and I am sure it comes across in my posts. Why is it that Cornwall County Council can issue similar material without any problems??!!
Not sure who the FOIC asnswers to,maybe another quango but will find out.
At this moment,I have two FOI requests pending at the DCC, 1st a copy of the relevant paperwork for one school only and 2nd a copy of the Lightning Protection (LP) Test Results for the DCC HQ for the last 10 years. The first request denied and currently under the FOI scruinty and the 2nd request the DCC have requested another 20 days to "think about".
The reason I have made the LPHQ FOI is because I know the LP is substandard on the DCCHQ and I am interested to know how they have obtained their annual LP test results??!!. Any "responsible " public authortiy should be in a position to give this information straight away but no ,not DCC , they want another 20 days to study if my request is in the public interest. You can bet you sweet life,it is in my interest and if it wasn't,it is NOW.
The LP on the schools is a joke and if the LP at the DCCHQ is also a joke,what does that say about the DCC??
Name change necessary, well I didn't think it was necessary but only way back into the system after the YOU business. But I am sure everyone knows that Exxonmobil2 is me by the tone of my posts??!!
Not only 2 pints but 3 last night and slept like a baby and out for another 18 holes shortly followed by the Charity Shield,not a bad life,is it? but soon to change now my gardening leave has been cancelled. I think I might chase those Wind Turbine guys who offered me a job a while back.
Thanks XT for your interest and comments.
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I note with a wry smile Mr Milliband and Mr Johnston are denying any British involvement in the torture or transportation of Iraqi prisoners.
Expect Taggy, sorry Taggy (BA) will have something to say on that.
As a further expenses query, I wonder what MP do for Car Insurance, who pays the bill on that I wonder??!! Some of these MP's have 3 or 4 cars,hence ,I wonder if my Taxes are being spent on MP Car Insurance??!!
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Good morning each &...ummm...ah...Oh yes; Andrew.
"Long time no-see".
SS on Sky.
He and many others forget that...'egregious' means Prominant, distinguished.
From the Latin for...Chosen out of the flock.
In this light it may be that SS is after a job with the Tories.
BTW.
We all might be transported to London esconced in our bath-chairs carried in hover-taxis to welcome our troops home from Afghanistan in about 2050. Under that smokey pink sky....what a sight that will be.
With Queen Zoe in all her leather regalia.
You never know.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
meninwhitecoats 443
I never said that women did not have the intellect nor would I ever say that, for obvious reasons. Just that they are taking the wrong subjects to get them into the top jobs. There is not a great deal of call for useless degrees these days.
You have to have the right skills to get you on the right path to achieve the top jobs. There is not a lot of point promoting people beyond their level of competency no matter what their gender. The education system should be encouraging women to take the right degrees if they want to achieve high success.
My findings as a women are that there are no barriers that I have come across to stop women getting where they want to be with the right qualifications.
However I also find that a lot of women still do not necessarily want the top jobs. They would rather focus on being say cashiers so as to devote more time for their family and to my mind there is nothing wrong with that.
It should not be success which denotes your importance in the World anyway. Harman seems to believe that it does.
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P.P.S.
eXmO
Yes, the mention of 'Buzzsaw' is a result for you.
"Every little helps."
BTW. A man who spends time on a golf course has every right to be concerned with Lightning.
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eXmO
There is some important info here on 'buzzsaw', plus a free 30 day trial!
http://www.autodesk.co.uk/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=452932&id=5337098
And insight into searching the database.
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coats, susan, blame re: Equality of Opportunity ...
I think the controversial persona of H herself is getting in the way of sensible discussion - peering through all of that, if what you're really saying is you don't want government poking their nose into this sort of area ... if the view is "let's leave people in peace to make the individual decisions they want to make, for whatever reason they want to make them" ... then I sympathise - disagree rather strongly (since I'm big on the equality agenda) but I do sympathise - for one, it's not as if the government has an inspiring track record (is it?) on achieving its policy goals - and also, although I'm quite intense about Equality of Opportunity (for reasons I've laid out many times, and which I'm sure you don't want to hear again!) I absolutely recognise that plenty of people rank other things as more important - in this case, for you guys, a "Small State" (right?) ... you know, freedom of the individual from government interference ... all that - that means more to you than equality of opportunity, doesn't it? - which is fine - nothing whatsoever wrong with having different values to me and Harriet - or not so much different values (since more or less everyone sees BOTH less inequality AND freedom from government interference as a Good Thing) but rather a different hierarchy of values - it's important, this, because sometimes two Good Things will be in conflict, and therefore you have to CHOOSE which is the more important and should prevail - freedom from government "meddling" trumps equality of opportuntity? ... "YES!" say Middle England - "NO!" say me and HH - that's what it boils to and it's best to recognise it, otherwise all we end up doing is tossing (meaningless) platitudes back and forth, and generally avoiding the issue
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susan @ 439
It's the same reason, in fact, as to why we have to pay bonuses to people working in our financial sector. We do not have the skill base in this Country to fill these positions, therefore we have to pay to attract the right people from other Countries
mmm, so the City bonus culture is mainly down to defficiences in our education system - that's a little bit spicy and Off The Wall!
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sagamix 452
Saga if I had any hard evidence that women were being held back purely on gender, I would be banging that drum louder than you or Harman. However it is simply not the case. Men I have found are willing to support and promote women in just the same way as men if they are offering the same skills and conditions as men offer.
Unfortunately at the present time women want it all, they want to be promoted and yet not put the same hours in as the men and have the same commitment. Under these circumstances if you were a Manager who would you employ.
You cannot expect in the work-place to have your cake and eat it, as women expect to do these days. That is not equality. I would never expect my male colleagues to do more than me just because they are men, why should other women expect that.
This has nothing to do with middle England, it is just uncomfortable facts that women must accept if we are ever to gain true equality.
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sagamix 453
Sad but true though. They have to pay these bonus payments to keep people, because there is not enough new blood coming into our financial sector through our education system to provide competition.
We have dropped to a low level in education in the World tables for mathematics in this Country.
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Speculation is 'hunting', hunting for gain, Big-Gain.
but this is Big Game hunting for trophies rather than for meat and it is still the killer who gets the Lion's Share.
Farming for profit on the other hand; planting, tending, (green shoots?), harvest etc. is so mundane by comparison and often too much like work.
As ever the work can be safely left to the womenfolk?
If it is good business to work-up 'lust' in your speculators that lust had best be sated to some degree, hence the bonus culture. Why the bonus is not srictly linked to performance can be explained by that industry's need for competitors. The similarity of all this with profesional football does not speak highly of any need for 'education' or mathematics, come to that; as for the need for 'objects to play with'. "Aye there's the rub."
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#452/454
I do think a little bit of positive discrimination in science and engineering towards women does help get them started in these professions and is therefore to be encouraged.
Thereafter it is up to each woman as to what they achieve, however an enlightened employer would recognise the skills these women bring to the workplace and wherever practically possible offer flexible working.
I do recall situations where my female colleagues never seemed to get selected on courses, which their male colleagues attended - presumably because the employers did not think it was worth spending the money on a female scientist/engineer - although quite often they stayed with the employer longer because they did not have the same degree of mobility because of family ties.
Where equality does cause resentment is where lower paid men [and women] have to cover for their female managers who take full advantage of their maternity rights then return to the workplace displacing their colleagues who have been covering for them.
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susan @ 455
mmm, interesting point of view about why the City has evolved the crazy bonus culture - or not so "crazy" rather, if you think that! - trouble is, one of the many odd things about the City is that, although it's meant to be a bastion of the free market ethos, a fundamental tenet of which says that if there's massive competition for jobs ... which there is in the City ... hundreds of suitable candidates for more or less every position ... then that should keep a lid on remuneration, yes? - you know, supply/demand and all that - and yet (and yet) it doesn't apply for some reason - I mean, the top footballers for example, they earn silly money but at least you can see why - very few people can do what Wayne Rooney can do and he gets his slice of the massive money his (very rare) talent generates - like it or not, it's the Market right? - but the City's not like that - there's tens of thousands of guys there, trousering enormous sums as a "reward" for doing stuff that (believe me) countless other people could do - you just have to be reasonably bright and energetic, that's all - certainly no requirement for high level mathematics, or anything even close - hey and another thing, Susan ... you're probably under the impression the City is a real tough "Hire and Fire" place, yes? - where okay you earn a lot, but the flip side is you get sacked at the drop of a hat when things go pear shaped - well that's complete garbage, it's quite the opposite - Investment Banks bend over backwards not to sack people - they try every which way to find other jobs for them, or they just carry on paying them for doing sweet nothing in particular - anything to avoid being all Nasty - no, the whole thing is "Free Market" when it suits and "Workers Collective" when it doesn't - "having cake and eating it" did you say? - spot on babe, spot on ... because that's exactly what the participants (of either gender) in the great City Scam are doing - we simply MUST put a stop to it
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oudeis @ 456
a rather elegant and curvy way of saying the same thing as me - lovely
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sagamix @459, Thank you, and yes something must be done.
As money and financial matters in general are treated as less and less real, ownership of this 'wealth' will soon be contested.
Is there a higher plane where fiscal phantasists play-out the affairs of common humanity?
[think Zeus etc. in Jason and the Argonauts]
Just what is created by these speculators? Are factories being built, industries sustained? What is to show for their efforts?
Perhaps the west's roaming empire is on the point of crumbling. Best prop up the banks quick!
All in all the world is top heavy; only by spreading the punishment, the suffering at the base can those at the top hope to stay there.
If we are to gain over time in the usual way somebody else will have to suffer; and so it goes on.
We must blame the polititians as they are the only people we can do anything about.
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Sagamix
Blimey and you say one of my posts was messy. I mean I understood Oudies point very well, but yours is a little confusing and it tends to ramble.
Can you demonstrate your point because this sounds like media garbage in your words to be honest.
The city is a hire and fire place based on targets. When you reach targets you receive the rewards. This is true all round the World. Now whether you like it or not you have to have the financial background to work in the City and be successful. If others are taking the risks and you do not, the target is not reached you take the "hit".
These are the people who again are making the money for the banking sector, that is why the Government has not come down hard on bonus payments. If we do not allow the City to pay the rewards for these people, they will just go elsewhere it is as simple as that. We need more competition in the financial sector to stop the need to pay massive bounus payments. Financial institutions will pay a great deal of money to have the kind of expertise needed. We are not producing home grown experts of our own these days. Its called supply and demand.
I look forward to you fully explaining how you believe it should work (for the better) if you disagree with my points.
By the way a women would say a man chasing a ball all day for a living instead of using his brain, should not be paid vast amounts of money for enjoying himself.
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445 Exxonmobil2
I have been catching up on my newspapers today. Have you seen the fuss over the oil pipeline leak in France in the nature reserve in the Camargue? Exxonmobil is a shareholdre of the pipline operator.
Loads of Hariet Harman clones supporting her somewhat divisive ideas.
The police have been told to ignore the European Court ruling on DNA !!!!!!!!!
And the one I liked best in my local weekly. The Council bemoaning that there was now only one bank and one building society on the safe to lend to list ! The bank is the HSBC and this was no good as it only takes 5m for 6 months minimum. The building society wasnt named. This means NONE of the rest are credit rated as fit for public authority money deals ? What about the rest of us and our cash in them ?
Saga 458
How do I get a job in the city please?
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Nice article in the Guardian:
120 Labour MPs plan to stand down at next general election.
But most Labour MPs say they and their colleagues will avoid going before the election so that they can take advantage of tax-free severance terms that guarantee MPs between six months and a year's pay if they leave parliament at a general election, whether voluntarily or not.
Appears that things are bad for our downtrodden leaders in their Big tent. But on the flip side they will leave with a nice handshake. They must have learnt that one from the banks we are propping up.
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This is what Sion Simon wrote almost 2 years ago:
Shortly there will be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority
It’s not the Milibands, the Ballses or the Burnhams who are unconsciously nervous. This is the moment for which they were created. They are ready.
He also refers to a Brownian blitzkrieg. it would have read better as Brownian bottler
Is this guy real. Is this the best the NuLabour left can offer?
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Never mind saga HH will be in good company back at the coal face:
Jacqui Smith
Hazel Blears
Caroline Flint
Patricia Hewitt
Estelle Morris
Margaret Hodge
Clare Short
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By the way Susan, keep up the good work. SM is not even in your league.
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... well my broadband has gone down for a couple of hours and I come back to find I have been moderated. Some one is really out to get me.
Susan I had sent you a nice little essay back about the value of women in the workplace and for the life of me I cannot think of anything contentious in it.
Maybe my post was removed for being boring!
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458
Saga:
Can I ask where your experience of the recruitment and retention and remuneration policies of Investment banks comes from?
In light of just how much Lehman's bent over backwards for their UK staff, no??
Pardon my indolence, but I suspect that your experience of working in the City of London is about the same as mine... non existant. I am married to a woman though who worked in the city all of her professional life from 16 and got out at the age of 47. Not every institution in the square mile is an investment bank or a hedge fund. Not every single commuter who goes into work there every morning trousers a huge bonus. Yes, bonuses are paid across a significant number of city institutions, but they are not exclusive to the financial sector. And all bonuses are not five figure sums. These sums are amongst a small pool of people compared to all of those who work in the city - the biggest bonus my wife ever got was 1500 quid. Bear in mind, she'd worked for the company over 10 years and was in an important department (Treasury), which made significant gains for her employer. Other more senior personnel took home bigger bonuses, but they were in senior managerial positions, where if you goof up and cost the company serious money, not only are you finished there, but your professional reputation is trashed and you will find it hard to find similar work in that sector.
Bonuses, like them or not are a fact of life in this particular sector.
The press like to make a big noise about it because of some of the sums involved in a very small part of the Financial Services sector and during the last two years, the practise has come into much sharper focus and as a result, it sells newspapers. Politicians in this day and age respond to the media more expeditiously than anything because they figure that is the way to connect with the maximum number of potential voters with the least possible effort.
Therefore, it is easy for a politician to act with outrage on the subject with little prior knowledge of how the system works and it can be equally easy to incite such outrage in their target voters and channel it by promising to do something about it.
It is however, extremely two faced to do that when you have been part of an administration that has been trying to ride the back of this particular tiger for the last 12 years and milk it for as much tax as you possibly can without scaring them off to Geneva, New York, Dubai or wherever.
I am not saying that there have not been sharp practises in the industry. I am not saying that it is not in need of reform. But, the bonus culture is but one small part of it and there are far more fundamental changes that need to be made without even touching bonuses.
Think of it this way. You will have seen a considerable number of execs, not just financial ones who have been paid off handsomely and had their contracts bought out or terminated but have not been fired, where they have goofed and goofed badly and either destroyed the company or have nearly done so. There has been, in those cases, reward for failure. I would argue that this is a practise in more urgent need of reform than the bonus culture, which tends to reflect performance against agreed objectives and targets. Granted, those targets and objectives against which the employee must deliver should be less short termist and should not encourage the profligate risk based approach of the last few years.
The competition for jobs in the city is indeed intense. There is a lot of money to be made for those who make serious sacrifices and put in a lot of hours. However, not all the jobs are the top ones who earn megabucks. The area where wages are subdued are in the myriad of other positions much much lower down the food chain - remember not everyone in the city is a red-braced trader - where there is significant competition for every post. Once you've got the opportunity to get into the higher earning echelons, it is all about professional reputations and how much your current and potential future employers think you might be worth to their business and they will pay what it takes to secure your services.
City employers are subject to the same employment legislation as the rest of us. They should go through the whole process before binning someone if it is performance related, or attempt to find them other slots if their position is genuinely being declared redundant. And, when they dont, this is when you get the BBC and others turning up to the Croydon Tribunal offices making a big noise about it.
But there are many many more who either leave, get fired because of performance or other professional reasons, outsourcing... to see the Investment Banks as some kind of benevolent dictatorship who will try their hardest not to sack you so long as you keep lining their directors pockets is an odd view to take and I dont know where you get it from.
Certainly not from the City of London that I have come to learn about.
Its the only somewhat tarnished golden goose the UK economy has left. It is certainly not a good idea to wring its neck based on an ideology of envy unless you've got something else to replace it with...
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One problem with the bonus system and target culture can be summed up as 'be careful what you wish for'.
The whole of our society is saturated with these measures and, if you ever go into hospital, you'll see them planning your discharge before you've received treatment. The situation at Staffs Hospital appears to have come about due to an insane preoccupation with targets. It's a beautiful solution for politicians, expecially the nerdy statistically obsessed Gordon, who loves to spew figures like a demented bingo caller, but there's more to problem solving than an upward curving graph.
My NHS woes, I believe, were down to my becoming a statistical liability, and in my banking days, it was soon discovered that staff would become expert at 'working' the figures, or adopting risky or dubious tactics to achieve targets and bonuses. MP's did the same - it's human nature. The bare figures tell you nothing, and no system of targets or bonuses is reliable unless it is strictly monitored and overseen.
The whole problem fundamental to our current culture is that punishment usually amounts to a firm tap with a feather duster, and the mirage of success, begets riches of an obscene nature. I don't think institutions who richly rewarded failure in the past should be allowed to administer a bonus system at all until they can demonstrate competence in the field. It is ludicrous to reward the board of banks if their share price rises. After pumping in half the country's wealth and their being a cornerstone investment for most pension investments that's the saddest comment in justification of bank bonuses, that a bumbling fool can make. Sorry Gordon, but you really have lost the plot. My Teddy Bear would deserve a million or two, though he's grossly over qualified.
I really can't fathom the basis of the Svengali-like hold the banks have over Gordon. It doesn't matter if our banks are the finest financial institutions in the world (hollow laughter) if they only invest in pure money financial mutations, representing high risk high reward instruments favoured by people working to targets and bonuses.
The whole system favours high risk strategies investing in derivatives that do not create jobs or anything of worth. We've handed the keys of the drinks cabinet bank to the alcoholics, after topping it up, and haven't done a thing to cure the addiction.
I don't think it's any coincidence that we have had several massive high profile Ponzi schemes run as banks at the same time as the mainstream banking meltdown, and the information coming out of Iceland about their banks suggests that it would be an insult to casinos to suggest they were run like them.
We don't need more sophisticated bankers - honest ones will do, and a regulatory system that has half a clue. Some low paid, less smart executives with less encouragement to turn a quick buck and our financial system might get back to investing in industry rather than gambling in the derivatives market.
When our banks make big profits with our industry flat on its face - start worrying.
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sc @ 461 re the City bonus culture:
no worries Suse, not sure I can express things any more clearly - if you don't understand, the fault is probably more mine than yours
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462. At 2:41pm on 09 Aug 2009, xTunbridge wrote:
Saga 458
How do I get a job in the city please?
--------------------------------------
If you have an undergraduate degree in Ancient History and your father is the previous British Prime Minister, apparently Morgan Stanley (US investment bank) is most welcoming.
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471
Took a moment for the penny to drop there as to who you were on about... LOL.
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fubar @ 468
hi there, hope Brussels is suiting you - did a short job there recently and I quite liked it - I won't make the "treating yourself to a waffle" joke since it got moderated last time! - any case, I can see that you are - I have a couple of points to make to you:
1.
I do wish you could engage with the argument without resorting to the "politics of envy" slur - if you focus on what I actually said you will see that it has nothing to do with envy (a.k.a. bringing people down for the sake of it) - quite the opposite
2.
"what do I know about the City?" you ask - now the thing is, I don't like to bandy too much personal info about (I know you take the opposite approach) because it's more of an ideas exchange I'm looking for, rather than anecdotal type stuff (which I mistrust in any case) but I'll make an exception here in the hope it will help - the fact is I know the City very well, especially the "Front Office" trading environment which is what I'm mainly talking about - been immersed in it for more years than I want to own up to - I could write a book about it, hell I MIGHT write a book about it! - believe me, I know this scene and (please understand this too) it's a farce of the highest order - one day (maybe a day not so very far hence) we'll look back on the western Investment Banking model, circa 1980s through until now, and we will shake our heads in wonder at how it was allowed to continue for so long
3.
and finally, looping back to (1) above ... about looking at what I'm saying, not some sort of perceived atmosphere around what I'm saying ... there is no "killing the golden goose" aspect to reining in the bonus culture - indeed, there's a consensus that to do so is essential for the long term health of said goose - nothing extremist about what I'm saying, fubar, and it surprises me (although I am getting used to it) the mixture of vitriol and silliness it brings out in quite a few other bloggers - not really you, to be fair, but just look at Rtwoten's contributions at 465/66 ... or Susan's at 461 ... strange, isn't it?
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xtun @ 462 ... done! (and you'll be brilliant)
cat @ 471 ... quite
O @ 460
blame the politicians? ... yes sure, but blame the culprits too - I see this a little bit like we've been raped - the bankers did the brutal act itself, the politicians paid them to do it - a contract rape if you like, and both should go down hard for it
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gomer @ 469
yes, it's depressing (isn't it?) how we seem unable to get to grips with the City - Banking is a utility for heaven's sake ... soon as you see a Utility making mega profits, you should know something is not quite right
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When she took over running the country from Gordon Brown just over a week ago, Harriet Harman boasted she worked like a pit pony.
But, as usual with NuLabour, things are not what they appear.
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#476
A Pit Pony?
Kept in the dark, led around by the nose, burdened with a comodity she has no use for?
It strikes me that she has turned her blind eye on her past career in politics and returned to the same arguements that sustained her in her youth.
If only we all could do the same.
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I have just scoured the Scottish media to see how Flash is going on with his voluntary work. Zilch not a thing, but I did find a blog from his home town:
The failing economy of Kirkcaldy Clamour for jobs in the town of Gordon Brown.
But the Labour Party is supposed to look after the interests of people who live and work in towns just like Kirkcaldy - a former industrial town that slips ever-further into the mire, with one of the highest unemployment rates in the country. On the evidence I see with my own eyes, the Labour Party have failed us.
It is with little wonder Flash is in hiding.
Roll On 2010
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I read that our government derives intellegence from torture
and so we each are taught
to bear all of our suffering
through which such smarts are got
cry not for those who have few nails
and whose genitles are scorched
they have been educated in
the college of hard knocks
boarded at no mean expense
to purse and lexicon
in far flung dormatories where
no light of nusance shone
extraordinarily rendered
and buddied two to one
protected from all happenstance
the better to get it done
their voracity was tested
'till it broke and we could see
that everyone was lying
except the USA and we
We wage war against our mother tongue
more than the tea cups shake
where only tea is brewing
no noun or verb is safe
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473:
Saga
Ok fair enough, my wife was back office, so I accept what you're saying. Thanks for answering that. Not many of us can speak with much authority on subjects that affect us and there is as I'm sure you're aware, a tendency in the dead tree press to stoke up what it sees as righteous public anger in pursuit of its owners agendas without giving all the relevant information that people need to make an informed decision. In times like that, it pays to acquaint yourself with the subject matter before passing judgement... well, thats my philosophy anyway.
Very good skit about the waffles by the way, I barely heard the sabre being drawn. I'm more of a moules and frites person myself though. The EEC district in Brussels is not a lot to write home about and the hotel I'm in certainly isnt. I'm moving to an out of town apartment next week though, so hopefully village life will suit me a bit better.
OK. Onto your points.
1) Now you understand how many of us feel about the expression "clowns" or "vacuous poshboy". I much prefer not to play in that particular gutter, but sometimes needs must. If you prefer not to, then good, I'm happy to act my age if you are. :-)
2) Yes, I dare say we will. I'm in the middle of reading Peston's "Who Runs Britain?" book at the moment. Quite informative. Both parties who have held power since the 80's have had a lot to answer for in the way that things have panned out. Likewise, Clintons repealing of Glass-Steagall had played a part in the unravelling of the system. Its kinda frustrating that those elected into power - of both political shades - didnt seem to have a grasp on how things were allowed to proceed and what the implications of their actions were. Even more regrettable that it seems that certainly so far as the UK seems to be concerned, that those who had a significant part in triggering the events seem to have effectively rewarded for failure and have got off scot free. Andy Hornby is already in new employment. Sir Fred is not only still a Sir, he's never going to need to work again. These are but the tip of the iceberg, as you'll know only too well. Deregulation is all well and good if the industry can be trusted to police itself. This is plainly not the case, and arguably never has been. Hence, any regulation in place needs to protect the state (and by definition, the public) and ensure standards and must have teeth. Should we have allowed Northern Rock and RBS to fail? Just what sort of a precedent does "too big to fail" set? Companies know that once they get so big, so overleveraged that they effectively can get away with murder... the Government of the day cannot afford to let them fail. Personally, I think NR should have bit the dust. Had they been based in Sunningdale, or Windsor and been called Southern Rock, it would have happened. They would have been allowed to collapse. Why prop up a failing business? Especially if you're going to let them keep on doing what got them into trouble in the first place. Westlands should have been allowed to fail 20 years ago and it is this kind of vote chasing/buying idiocy that hasnt helped either the company or the end customers for its products.
This is licence for larceny and surely cannot be allowed to continue. Decisions by management of public companies have consequences. The shareholders, often pension funds have ineffective managers who are incapable of holding these boards to account because they are taking too long a view and see themselves as purely accountable to the pension funds they manage.
Well, legally perhaps so. But morally, as a the funds have major holdings in major British firms, they also have a duty as shareholders to the companies they invest in to keep the executive of the company in check. Otherwise, if the majority shareholders arent going to effect change or shout if something is wrong, what chance have the small investors got? Why didnt anyone shout louder about NR when those inside the FinServs industry knew that something was up at least a year before its collapse? My wifes former employers told her and her colleagues in treasury not to touch NR (and Bradford & Bingley) with a bargepole at least a year before they went belly up. So, the truth was known... so if they knew it, surely the shareholders did too?
At least with the Japanese when they had their debt crisis, although the government bailed out the big players, they demanded full disclosure of who held how much toxic debt and heads on plates as a condition. We havent really done anything bar inspire a few hooligans to put Sir Fred's windows in. The punishment doesnt really fit the crime, IMHO.
Then again, one redeeming thing about the Japanese is that they do have a very keen sense of shame and dishonour. If someone goofs, loss of face is a serious cultural thing. Over here, you'd just get a shrug and two fingers and "stuff you lot, I'm off to the south of France to retire, leaving someone else to clean the mess up".
Unfortunately, with our political elite having spectacularly scored an own goal by conceding any moral high ground they may have had a tenuous grip on through the expenses scandal (and thereby being as despised as bankers themselves), it seems that we're just going to go back to the way we were before and nothing will change, except that future generations are now in hock to the sovereign wealth funds of the middle east and China for a generation and we will see nothing beneficial for it.
3. Maybe I misinterpreted what you said then, about the bonus culture. I could have sworn I heard a dogwhistle though, echoing through the somewhat deserted halls of H's much vaunted Court Of Public Opinion...
We can only wean ourselves off the golden teat that is the financial/services sector as a source of corporation tax, etc, by actually going back and making things, producing real things. The city provided 20% of all corportation tax receipts until recently. A fifth of the whole economy, from one square mile.
Unfortunately, due to what happened in the 70's and 80's a lot of the manufacturing base has been lost or is about to be lost probably never to be regained. The education system, as has been touched on has not delivered a new generation of scientists, engineers, etc although we have done well in vehicle design (but no manufacturers left, so they all go abroad) so we are having to import the talent. Lowering the median standard to make all look better according to targets that are set is another own goal.
All these things have effects... they may appear to be singular decisions by individual government departments over the years, but... well, the lack of joined up government thinking has not prevented the appearance of joined up consequences of their actions, IMVHO.
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sagamix 473
You are doing it again, you must answer the questions posed, otherwise we cannot take you seriously. If you do know about the City you do not need to give personal details just an insight into how you would see it run if you wish to abandon the present system.
You cannot just dismiss people as silly or wrong unless you say why they are and give an alternative vision.
Also you must not tell others their posts are not up to scratch and then just produce something that is not up expectations yourself and not take the flak for it.
Furthermore you are unfair to Roll-on as he has produced some interesting articles for us to read tonight in order to set a new agenda. I particularly enjoyed the pit pony one, which proves how many untruths we are told by politicians and how out of touch with reality Harman really is. Also the article on Brown and Kirkcaldly I found particularly informative.
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sagamix 473
I have some more questions for you.
What do you mean by 'The front Office' is a farce please qualify.
I also meant to ask who is this consensus of opinion for reining in the bonus culture coming from. Who are these people and who do they represent.
You can answer these questions without giving any of your identity away.
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Oudies 479
I enjoyed your poem very much.
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482#
In fairness to Saga in this case Susan, Front Office is a legitimate part of the City business model. Generally refers to Sales, Marketing, Investment Management, etc.
Back office would include, IT, Treasury, Accounting, HR,
Middle office tends to be position keeping.
Wiki has a good explanation of it.
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Saga Susan Fubar
The only insight I've had into the City is through an ex-client of mine, an independent stockbroking company. I know from those days that any broker who wasn't performing did not last long. Surely that is the way investment arms of the big banks operate as well? They are all target driven. Miss your targets and you are toast.
On gender equality, perhaps it's the industry I work in but I have very rarely experienced discrimination at any level in what is a substantial number of working years. I can only recall one company, in the late 80's, where the board was all male and more than a little chauvinistic. From my couple of years work experience abroad and visits to international network offices I can say that the UK was, at the time, on par or ahead of the game on gender equality in the workplace. I'm sure some on here who work in other professions may have different perspectives.
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485#
On gender equality, agreed.
Both in my time in the services and in the IT Industry, I have worked alongside and for some very capable women. The two best project managers I ever worked for were women. Certainly in the services, no tokenism there, not in the 80's and 90's. You worked hard, you developed leadership skills, you were promoted and on you went. Relative meritocracy in as much as the military could deliver.
If I ever had to retain a Project Manager in future, I would say to those two that they could name their price, they were worth it, no doubt whatsoever. You could argue that sometimes women have to work harder than men to prove themselves in a male dominated environment... and thats maybe the one area that isnt fair, but you cant legislate against human psychology.. not sure that'll ever change... but for those that do work harder, prove themselves and deliver.... you get out what you put in. Life isnt fair in general and that isnt going to change. Either get used to it, dust yourself down, learn and bounce back, or disappear into the downward spiral blaming it all on an unfair world. Life isnt a fair place.
In that respect it isnt much different for men, the competition at the top is going to be equally ruthless and if you want to succeed in that game, you have to be politically adept, as ruthless as the next man or woman and good at what you do. If you're prepared to work your tail off to get it and make sacrifices and climb the greasy pole, you'll get there if you're good enough.
If you cant take the heat though, if you dont want to make the sacrifices, then dont complain when someone who is prepared to do so ends up overtaking you.
Depends what you want out of life. Since hitting 40, quality of life is the most important thing in the world for me, having that work-life balance.
I could no more work in the City of London than I could fly to the moon and I wouldnt want to.
Dont need that pressure any more and dont need the money that badly that I'd sell my soul for it. For those who want to be up there with the masters of the universe, on you go, fill your boots, be all you can be. I hope it makes you happy.
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I have no experience of the city but as a lay person it seems that when times are good the rewards for the few are huge but when risks are taken the losses are shared by everyone.
I have never followed high risk options on my pension but see the value of my pension scheme eroded as a result of all this. I did not ask anyone to take risks on my behalf to get rich quick and it seems that any long term responsible planning is undermined at the vagaries of these hooray henrys.
On gender equality there are still some industry sectors where a women has to be much better than her male counterparts to succeed - and in science and engineering I would advocate positive discrimination to encourage women to enter the professions.
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When banks pay little or no interest on credit balances and charge 8%+ on overdrafts and 16%+ on credit cards, you can have monkeys running them, and they're guaranteed to make a profit.
The market rule is that you judge the efficiency of your institutions by measuring the spread between buying/selling rates and/or lending/borrowing rates. On that basis our institutions are pathetically inefficient, and praising their ability to make profits is like applauding sheep for eating grass.
Making a bundle on guessing the future price of mung beans may be very clever and remunerative, but it's not of benefit to the UK taxpayer or economy. I've seen some of these 'complex' securities and anyone with a nose for drivel can see they're 'complexed' up to deceive. The latest Ponzi fraud used the same tactic to ward off regulators, by making them afraid to ask questions of the supposed 'guru' of finance.
What amazes me is quite how stupid some of these people are, but the jokes on us at the end of the day.
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mmm, all good stuff I must say - reading the Peston book, are you Fubar? - well, his blogs are good so hopefully the book is too - "clowns and vacuous PBs etc?" ... but I don't use that lingo on here - it's a bit gentler on here than over on Nick's page - and Oudeis, a nice little poem, yes indeed - political blogs tend to bring out some ghastly attempts at that sort thing, so I doff my cap to an honourable exception - don't get carried away though, wasn't Auden or anything! - blame, that's wrong about the City being a brutal "hire and fire" type place - it really isn't - compared to, say, your average fruit processing factory, it's cushy as anything - check out the actual number of job losses behind those "City Bloodbath" headlines - you'll find the total thing is less than Woolworths - coats, many many congratulations on being able to contemplate Positive Discrimination without completely losing your rag - as unusual (on a BBC politics blog) as seeing a half decent poem, that is! - rotwoten, I forgive you for everything but I'm still not sure why you listed out all those women Labour MPs - what was/is the message there, please? - and last but never (never!) least, Susan ... Ms Croft ... that rather scary post of yours @ 481 is a truly remarkable piece - what's with all the I "must not" do this, and I "must" do that, and I "cannot" do the other ?? ... else a sinister sounding entity you refer to as WE will not take me seriously !! - as an example of the Croft genre "we" have come to know/love, I don't expect it to be topped this side of Christmas
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Fubar_Saunders 484
Fubar I know what the Front Office does and how it performs. That was not the point of my question which was to find out what Saga knew for a change. As usual we got nothing.
When you make a sweeping statement like the Front Office is a farce, one likes to get an explanation of some kind. None as usual was forthcoming. Strange that if you know the City well and are going to write a book on it.
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sagamix 489
The reason for the post was two fold, one is you are constantly telling people they are wrong without offering any explanation of why they are. The other is you constantly ask questions yourself without ever answering one put to you. Then when someone does ask you anything to probe your knowledge of the subject you return with a post to try to isolate the person doing the probing by making friends with the others. Its a clever strategy and one I have been watching with interest for some time.
This is were the difference comes in the how a women thinks and how a man thinks. A man will take things on face value alone and not read into the strategy being played out. A woman does she is looking for substance in the argument, so perhaps my 'Royal we' should not have been used in this instance as you rightly infer.
I have worked with too many types of people in my time not to understand games when they are in play. It is not as easy to pull the wool over my eyes as you may think.
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susan @ 491
morning babe - there is somebody playing games on here (you're right there) and I think "we" know who it is, don't we? - you're quite lucid in your explanation of this so called strategy of mine involving "pretend friendliness, divide, isolate" and I know why - a subject you know well, isn't it? - know almost as well as I know the City even! - on that score I'm pretty sure (because again I agree with you, you're nobody's fool) that you're pretending not to understand what I'm saying - but in any case, let me take another leaf out of the Croft Handbook and ask you to "go back and re-read my posts" (recognise that one, Suse?) - just click on my name and you'll find a whole bunch of posts banging on about the flaws in the City bonus model - - and if you do that ... if you really do that ... and you come back in a day or two and say that you STILL don't understand, then I'll believe you ... take it at face value ... and I promise I'll write another one especially for you - it would be a pleasure
just thinking, Suze ... we used to be so close, didn't we? - don't really want this sort of stuff, to be honest, so let me apologise to you if I'm reading you all wrong - I may be - any case, I wouldn't worry too much if I were you - no doubt, there'll be plenty of messages of consolation/support from the likes of rotwoten et al saying what a great person you are and what a ghastly creature I am
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meninwhitecoats 487
I do not believe in positive discrimination as I have already said. However it would be helpful to get engineers and scientists of either gender to be honest.
The last time I looked the education system was not producing either.
Foreign students are propping up our British Universities in key subjects like science and engineering. The drop out rate has led to closure of a number of University science departments in recent years that was the last I heard.
The more popular degrees are in psychology, computer science, law and media studies.
It seems yet again as a Country we are falling behind in these key areas. I know that the standards are being lowered to produce quicker results, particularly engineers, into the system. Companies now will pay a lot to get really well qualified engineers and many who would probably be retired now, can earn really good money by staying on in the work-place.
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sagamix 492
Its simple with me what you see is what you get. I make mistakes in posts done in haste, which you will rightly pick me up on. I can be persuaded to another point of view if the argument is reasoned.
Why is it so important to you what other people think, you have a view, express it but do it with proper argument.
If you think I am insincere, there is not a great deal I can do about it. You are right to suppose I know a great deal more about particular subjects than I often say, however I do this for the same reasons as you, identity.
You know very well no one thinks your ghastly, particularly the guys, because men just do no think like that. You know also I do not think that either, however you can be really unkind when you want to be.
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#493 susan
We (the UK) are in a worrying position with regard to science and engineering. As we do less in these areas and farm work out to other countries so there are less and less jobs for the new generation. There are less jobs so less people take this route and so it goes on.
We used to be a powerhouse in R&D but I fear this is slipping as more and more reliance is placed on the financial sector. We need to address this because the talent we do have is either going elsewhere or being ignored. We are training up foreign talent and eventually our university base will sink.
Once again I think some of the problems are to do with funding. A common theme I have noticed is that the less money that a particular organisation has to give out as grants the more people are involved in the process. This has resulted in there being no money left at the end of the round to fund any successful projects. It is also a highly risk averse system.
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#493 Susan
I have seen positive discrimination for women work very effectively in industry, all it means is that they are given a start in a profession, thereafter they prosper [or not] on their own merits.
You are quite right about the foreign students coming to the fore in science. The approach to science in schools has been to teach it less rigorously with less emphasis on learning dry facts and the mathematics of the subject. As in all disciplines there has to be a period of learning the basics before we can progress to the more interesting stuff.
Unfortunately industry does not always treat its scientists and engineers well, it takes in highly qualified individuals then apart from exceptional cases sidelines them or makes them redundant when they are over 55.
I am fortunate in having some control over my own destiny but my contemporaries who have worked for large organisations are often left feeling underutilised and still feeling they have a lot to offer.
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Ref 462 XTunbridge
Thanks XT for the Camargue oil spill info and without knowing any details,I can inform the blog that this spill could and should have been avoided and it is only a matter of time before we get the MOTHER of oil spills somewhere in the world and my money is on either the Chad/Cameroon Pipeline or the BTC Pipeline which is a wee bit closer to home.
The authorites would have us belive that this pipeline has suddenly gone POP in the night and spills it's guts full of oil into the Camargue or close by,I bet the FROGS are hopping mad and the TOADS won't be too happy either.
Any oil company worth it's salt runs periodical pipeline testing which delivers pipeline strengths, weaknesses, steel gauge measurements,corrosion etc etc. This data is gained from a piece of equipment called a "smart pig" (SM),so called becaues it look like a pig and this pig is passed thru the pipeline to collect such data. The first thing people should be asking is the "Pigging Data" and I bet there is no pigging data either?!.
Ihave no faith whatsoever in Exxon and even less in BP who are responsible for the BTC Pipeline. It was BP and Exxon who responsible for the Alsak oil spill only 2 years ago.
One of these days a major oil spill will make the Exxonvaldeez look like a lawn mower oil leak.
Ref 451 Oudies.
Thanks Oudies for the Buazzasw info which I am familiar with. Buzzasaw is one of numerous Project Management Sytem (PMS) data base system (REQUIRED BY LAW) which enables the FOI Act to function and should have been in place by the end of 2004,hence, when local authorites inform the FOIC that they cannot oblige FOI requests because it will cost more than 450 pounds, it is BULL- - -.
The whole idea of a paperless office is required by law ,hence my friends at the DCC are being a little bit naughty.
For anyone not familar with the Electronic Records Management Database Sytems (ERMDS) it is,simply electronic data filling.
According to the DCC they have just built 6 PFI schools in Exeter at the cost of 340 million pounds on HARD COPY data, which again,I say is BULLS--.
And,yes, I do appreciate the dangers of lightning as a golfer and furthermore, I do appreciate the dangers to building,structures etc which have NOT been provisioned with any Lightning Preotection Systems?!
Is there any wonder the DCC don't want to copperate with me??!!
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#497
eXmO Life, for you, could be so much easier if only you lived in Torbay. They seem to be on the ball with LPS...
http://www.torbay.gov.uk/index/education/schools/organisation-assetmanagement/building-land-issues/lightning-protection.htm
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BTW
Things here are set to be far more prosaic in future.
The 'preview' button has gone.
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MI6 'is not complicit' in torture
BBC headline
MI6 denies complicity in torture
Guardian headline
Subtle difference?
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