Maradona lights up Scotland friendly
So the Scottish FA got lucky. It happens sometimes when you press the gamble button.
They were dealt the Hand of God when Diego Maradona flashed his C.V. in front of the Argentine FA and they were blinded by its brilliance.
Great players don't necessarily morph into great coaches and I suspect the Buenos Aires blazers may have forgotten to check the small print. But so what, who cares when you look at the view from Mount Florida?
A friendly, where the interest level flirted with apathy, has turned into ticket fever just because one of the greatest players to grace the game is coming to town.
It will be his first game in charge of the nation for whom he once danced his magic.
Not that he was the greatest that ever breathed. That was Pele and if you don't accept that don't even try to enter me into the debate. I'm not even up for discussion on that one.
Wee Diego though - with Best and Cruyff - must be vying for the runner-up spot. Even Billy Mehmet, for all his cult status in Paisley, has a bit to go to get in that gang.
The Tartan Army would snog Diego in a heartbeat. Not for what he did for Argentina, but for how he undid England in Mexico in 1986.
It is a twisted kind of love affair, but probably the real thing for all that.
And now they are queuing up to pay their respects. Never mind the fans, they could fill Hampden's North Stand with the world's media.
Right now the press office at the SFA will be like Mafeking, except with little relief on the horizon.
South Americans, Italians and the world's paparazzi will be elbowing for room when he jets into Glasgow. It will be the most spectacular of bun fights.
Maradona is a headline machine, the world's press are tattooed to his skin and there is no available surgery for the removal thereof.
In a country where they embrace their heroes, it is Eva Peron nil, Diego Maradona one.
Even Kris Boyd may be pushed into the shadows next Wednesday and George Burley will drink to that.
But for all the focus, for all the cameras lenses which will point to the visitors' dug-out, for all the intent never to let a Diego by, those of us in this neck of the woods should remain focused on the chaps in dark blue.
Scotland have not won a friendly at Hampden since most of the current team were at school, some in shorts.
That is a mortifying statistic. And the truth is that it is unlikely to be put to rights against the wizardry of the South Americans - with or without the magical Lionel Messi.
But we need a sign that progress is being made, that the manager - having engaged Kris Boyd in a stand-off - has a plan to proceed without his involvement.
The irony is that the next World Cup fixture, against Holland in Amsterdam in March, is the only one remaining that we can probably afford to lose - provided, of course, that Scotland consequently set off on a points-gathering spree at home and in Norway.
I was there when Maradona scored his first goal for his country as a precocious teenager at dear old Hampden nearly 30 years ago.
You could have turned your back on the pitch and still known you were in the presence of greatness.
But having nodded in his direction we must not be blinded by his inspirational light.
We must shake the hand that shook the Hand of God, and then wave a friendly goodbye to a track record from hell.
"Tell them who you are and what you are about," they said. To be honest, there are days when I struggle to remember myself. Forty years toiling at the coalface of football journalism does that to you. But I have reason to believe that I have reached the heady heights of the title of Football Correspondent of BBC Scotland which gives me a renown, in Scottish terms, of somewhere between Alex Salmond and the deep fried Mars Bar.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~23~RS~)
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Pele or Maradona? Has to be Maradona!!!
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no way pele all day everyday
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you usually shake left hands then, Chick?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
After all of this it would be hilarious if Sotland won in the end. I think Burley as done the right thing in leaving Kris Boyd out, the manager knows best!
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I cannot belive my comment was removed. I will try and moderate my tone...
Chick your last couple of blogs were of a reasonable standard. Unfortunately I find the above article high on clever remarks and cliche and very low on content.
Kind regards
Norrie
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Maradonna was the greatest player that ever lived! If only he'd been given the protection by Referees that is handed out to players these days.. Players with only a fraction of Maradonna's talent, I might add!
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Any one who thinks that Maradona (one 'n', not two) was the greatest player ever is obviously too young to have seen Pele. He was the complete footballer.
And he could have done with some protection too - kicked to pieces in two world cups ('62 & '66) simply because he was too good for his average oponents.
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Deary me Chick, the impending visit of Maradona has obviously got your knickers in a twist. Your recent blogs have been decent efforts but this one's right up there with the worst.
One of the most nonsensical phrases is:
"Not that he was the greatest that ever breathed. That was Pele and if you don't accept that don't even try to enter me into the debate. I'm not even up for discussion on that one."
...please tell me, what would we be debating if I DID accept that?
The rest is not worth the pixels it packs.
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Alanis Morissette has a better understanding of irony
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Excellent, great article and well done for not being lazy and predictable by going on about Kris Boyd or using the term "hand of god" when talking about Maradona...well done again, keep it up
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Didn't mention the fact that Maradona played at Hampden as a player, and the reception he got that night was incredible. Don't join in all that Anglo stuff on handball (their players cheat as much as anyone!!)
The man was a miracle player in the hardest and dirtiest league in the world, who took an average team to the top. Take a bow Maradona and give him credit for the player he was and not about some handball!! (I didn't mention big Joe Jordan either, we have them too)
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Chick, you are so negative and depressing.
The game was always going to be a sell out or near sell out Maradona or not, you are always quick to put down the International team at any given chance.
And I'm tired of your lame cliche's and puns. You deserve a stink palm.
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CoolHandChic,
Don't cry for me Argentina.The truth is that the 1978 Argentian team (Kempes!)were better by far and don't forget Scotland had the best midfield in the world at that tournament and still couldn't make the later stages (wee journo ironic aside, there). The sadness and contrast to Ally's army in 78 must surely have impacted your journalistic psyche more that the later exploits of a Joe Jordan copycat. Speaking of which, when did good footballers make good managers? Bobby Charlton or Jackie anyone? Argentina in 66 vs Ramsey's robots? Debates ? They're all illusions, and not the solutions they promise to be - the answer was there all the time (Evita) : Give me Denis the Menace any day, named in a RoW eleven vs England if I remember correctly. Maradona wouldn't even have made the team, never mind the concert, and Ritchie wasn't half a good ball player too.
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Who is chick????
clearly not someone who knows about football history!!
I wonder why he gets to write about football then.
ok pele was the best in his generation, but diego was the best in his generation and if they were both in the same generation, i reckon pele would have been first, diego second and George best 100th!!!..ok 50th maybe.
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I kinda think pele was abetter persons player Maradona was a bit of a pirate.
They both gave the game the best they could.
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I often wonder how good a player Davie Cooper would have been if he hadn't been stuck in a very mundane Rangers team in the 1980's and trained a bit harder. Pele is before my time and I always thought Cruyff was the best player during my life time. Marradona was a footballing trip to the dark side alright, but brilliant none the less.
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Pele may have been the best footballer of his generation, but Maradona is the greatest footballer ever. He single handedly won the italian league title for napoli twice. Also Maradona proved himself in Europe, unlike Pele.
Also Best would not be considered the third greatest footballer....anywhere. Players like Zidane and Cruyff deserve a mention.
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I cant believe you chose pele over maradona thats just pathetic... think about it maradona conquered the football world at a time where soccer was much more physical and faster.. pele had a great team behind him, maradona didnt,.. maradona took napoli, not real madrid nor man u, and made it the best team in italy for almost a decade... i dont think pele played outside of brazill.. in a pick up match i would by far pick maradona over pele, i tihnk you would too... and one quick question.. why is Best runner up with maradona?? that's also pathetic...
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The Scot's are welcome to the cheat!!!!!!!
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Outside of Britain, no one considers George Best to be in the same class as Maradona or Pele. Nor should they.
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Maradona is the most skillfull player of all time. A genius of dribble, a pocket battleship that ran on pure emotion and enthusiasm, sometimes too much. Pele is the best embassador for the game and perhaps the best goal scorer (1000 or so!). To say it's clearly Pele is a bit arrogant Chick.
But to be fair, I think this was a better blog than your previous ones. I swear there are many people out there simply wanting to destroy poor Chick because he's Chick. Chick is a perfect product of the Scottish game - myopic, cliched but enthusiastic and affable. It's not as if our game requires lyrical soliliquies of unbridled elegance or poetic licence to describe punt and rush!
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Chic - How dare you mention a St Mirren player in a blog about Maradona?
Pele was clearly the most decorated player but most of his titles weren't national championships; they were regional. Moreover, almost half of his goals were in non-competitive games.
The argument for the best player could go on forever so it just comes down to opinion. My opinion is that Maradona was the greatest, most skilful of all and, for all of his honours, won everything virtually single handedly.
Can't disagree too much about some of the comments regarding Kris Boyd however Boyd is deadly in the box and to say Burley did nothing wrong is a joke. Burley played ridiculous tactics against an average team that we should have beat at home. Not even Iwelumo can be blamed for not winning that game.
There?s no argument for Burley doing nothing wrong; it crashes and burns at playing McFadden up front on his own against Norway.
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Chick,
Maradona is the greatest ever and I will tell you why!
He single handedly tipped the balance at the highest level when it mattered...mexico 86, napoli 85-89 (Serie A was the strongest league in the world by miles at this point) and hell, he even got a standing ovation at the bernabeu!!
pele, as good as he was, never tipped the balance when it really mattered on his own, unlike garrincha in 1962. IN 58 it was in combo with vava, garrincha, didi and zagallo. In 66, he want at his best and was admittedly kicked off the pitch. In 1970 he was surrounded by the best team ever that would have walked away with the cup without him, with Gerson and Jairzinho being the main instigators.
Now, dont fall back on stats! If you do, you can discount Best from your little list up there
and NONE but tim vickery should ever blog on SA football on this site as he is miles in front!
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maradona even on cocaine was top notch, pele never left brazil until he was past it looking for a final big payday.
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Hey Yungchickantiblog - you say that Scotland's 1978 midfield was at the time the 'best in the world'. Who are you kidding mate? Masson and Rioch were sadly one year down the road and were simply not up to the task even when faced with easy games against Peru and Iran in Cordoba. Masson missed an all important penalty against Peru which would have put Scotland ahead for the second time, and both Masson and Rioch were outplayed. It was only in Mendoza when Graham Souness was brought in and had a masterful game against Holland, running the midfield on his own, did the tide turn and Scotland won 3-2 but it was all too late.
The Scottish midfield was excellent in 1977 but by 1978 the 2 main men were past their best.
I was at all 3 games in Argentina and I remember the midfield situation pretty well.
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Sack Pele and Maradona. Zinedine Zidane is the all time greatest. Paul Scholes is somewhere in the top ten as well. Then, of course, Best etc should be recognised.
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Chic, if you reckon to have any knowledge of football then you will know that Maradona was a footballing freak of nature. Pele was an amazing player, but no Maradona. Without even mentioning his International achievements, I remember when he played for Napoli, he more or less won Serie A single handedly (I dont think they have won it before or since Maradona)
No other player has done that.
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Great blog, Chick!
If they don't want you in Scotland, please come & take over Phil McNumty's pen south of the border. He thinks he's a journalist.
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Chick,
Not really anything outstanding to toast about in the article. Big event for Scotland and really you should be bigging Scotland up, Argentina's friendly record is pretty lame in europe......
You were always going to get hammered. All the chat about Maradona is made by bloggers who know their stuff. He was the driving force behind teams who lived for him, and would have died for him. Charasmatic or plain bonkers Maradona draws you in, Pele was one part of an amazing side but a dull as dish water.
George Best.....well you have to impact the football world not just you next door neighbours! did he single handedly take N.I to a championship??? Poor judgement there Chick
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Maradona has Hugo Sanchez written all over him: more motivator than actual coach. Still, if he can be a Juergen Klinsmann and get an assistant coach who is smart enough to make selections and in game tactics, I could see him having success. He really will connect with the players.
Assuming he stays off coke
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There's huge time-gap between Pele's years and Maradona's years. Obviously, football is getting forward in terms of techniques and tactics. I don't see how Pele beats Maradona in being the best footballer ever.
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i sense than the english are still bitter for what The Great El Diego did in Mexico 86.
Honestly, pele lived in a time when football was far from what it is today. Whay excactly did he do for his club?
Napoli, Maradona, made Serie A champions twice and they won the Uefa Cup in a time when the Italian league was considered the best in the world.
Pele looked great in a brazilian side that was so much better ´than the rest. it wasnt because of him they won the World Cups. They actually had better playes than him
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With a Scot in goal there will probably be no need to score goals with their hands when Argentina play Scotland. But watch out if you ever get near the World Cup Final. You also won't want to play a team coached by the Handyman.
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joshbowlslegspin wrote:
"Outside of Britain, no one considers George Best to be in the same class as Maradona or Pele. Nor should they."
I'd say they do in Ireland, and I know they do in Japan. Pele also said George was "the best player in the world".
In terms of having an impact on a game, which is easier to appreciate if you haven't played much, then Maradonna is the man. I remember watching Pele, he was clearly a class above all other players at the time, but he didn't seem to do the amazing things that Maradonna later did. I prefer watching Zidane to Cruyff too. Everyone to their own.
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ahh...maradona! the Martin Hannett of football.
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Maradona was a great player, he was also a cheat. I suspect he would have been found out easily in today's game as a diver, short puller and antagonist. Still he was a wonderful player to watch in his prime.
But as coach of a major footballing nation? Dont think so. It's like putting Gazza in charge of England! It just wont work.
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In response to any comments of the 'cheat, diver, antagonist, etc.' variety: given the constant targeting by the game's hit-men, I think he can be excused for every occasion in which he cheated, dived or antagonised an opponent.
Some of the treatment he came in for was vile, to say the least, and played a huge part in his footballing destiny.
What set him apart was his ability to (eventually, at times) overcome this and almost single handedly win honours at the highest level.
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As an Englishman who lived in Glasgow for 15 years, I was always disgusted by the racist garbage that was always aimed at the English. It seems nothing has changed - why Chick, do you insist on stirring up this nonsense by celebrating the exit of England from a world cup at the hand of a cheat? Your bigotry is a disgrace, and you should be ashamed of yourself. You epitomise everything that is bad about Scottish bigotry. Such a shame when the vast majority of Scots are wonderful, warm human beings. Shame on you, shame on you.
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Is Chick on purpose righting a bad article because he loves the wind up?
I'm too young but recognise Pele and Maradona as two of the best ever.
Why do we need to box players in No1 No2 No3.
We can compare these guys to modern footballers due to the differences in the physical demands of the game.
Just base it on achievements of there time.
And I really don't understand why we have to be negative before a friendly against one of the best sides in the world.
It will be a good test before Holland and its nice Maradona is in charge.
We don't need to win friendlies just an encouraging performance.
And lets stop talking about Boyd please. The guy has made his stance and is obviously big headed treating the national team differently to Rangers.
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thebhoye - I used to think his comments were a wind up, but have learned over time that he is simply clueless and totally out of touch with the people/facts/reality.....
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Maradona > Pele
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Chick, you have blown me away with your knowledge of world football. It seems that your wisdom does not only extend to the realms of the Scottish leagues and national team but is infinite.
Of course, I?m talking excrement from uncastrated adult male cattle! It seems your blog (incidentally, you have given a new definition to ?blog? which seems quite apt and onomatopoeic) has influenced my thought mechanisms. I can no longer differentiate between reality and fantasy, truth and fiction, the scent of roses and that of animal waste matter. Most of all Chick, you have guided my erudition towards your own heady heights. Now, I find myself unable to express the most simple of notions to the effect that I so desire ? ok, this is also a result of the moderator?s heavy-handedness ? and I imagine that the rest of the public who read my comments will fail to understand me, like they can?t understand you.
What is my point Chick? Why am I addressing you directly Chick? Do you actually read? ? these comments, I mean! What I?m attempting to do here, Young Bird of Domestic Fowl, is to waste your time as much as you do mine. If it were not for the more broad-minded comments which follow your bloB, then I wouldn?t even check out your page anymore.
All the best to Maradonna as coach of the Argentinean football side. He may not have Pekerman?s pedigree, but maybe he will select Messi and Saviola at an important stage of a World Cup Finals. Thanks for your time. Big kisses, Chick XXX
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lets just hope D.A.Maradona doesnt meet Chick Young...he'll never be back!!
anytime someone doesnt even want to enter into a debate about something (eg.. who was the greatest..Pele or Maradona?) it's usually cause they know they are wrong..
and that's what we'd come to expect from Chick Young....
I want your job Young... they'll have to remove 99% of my brain though to be up to your standard (sorry DOWN to your standard)
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"never to let a Diego by"?
Oh dear.
More writing, less attempts at smart word-play please.
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I believe most English will have long since forgiven Maradonna for his "hand of God" trick and he is remembered for his brilliance so really the xenophobic dig is out of place.
How can you possible define whether one player was better than the other? It isn't really possible and while I personally think that Pele was better, Maradonna was undoubtedly a far more exciting player to watch.
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The debate about Pele and Maradona has a simple answer. The younger ones never knew Pele...else they would not bother arguing.
He's by miles the greatest footballer that ever breathed...by miles!
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Never mind breathed.. I'd go as far as to say Maradona is the greatest player who has ever sniffed..
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42. At 05:21am on 12 Nov 2008, steve17360 wrote:
As an Englishman who lived in Glasgow for 15 years
___________________________
You are not wrong mate, but you have to understand it's the view of many that it is the Colonial experience that has taught most of the world to behave that way........... bitter experience leads to bitter people...Ignoring the fact of colonialism and it's fall out only makes people more bitter....just like the hand of God makes the English bitter.
As for Chicks blog If Argentina coming to play Scotland (before Prima Maradona) can't get football fans excited then something is seriously wrong.
Of course he adds a huge dimension especially for a little man, but I would think Chick and the Beeb would need to sit down and watch where they are going. This blog does indeed border on out and out bigotry and the Beeb must be seen to do it's part to educate and stamp out that type of sentiment.
Wax lyrical all you like, but leave the emotion at home and get the facts straight.
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I adore El Diego, and I firmly believe he is the greatest player who has or will ever play the game.
On Pele, he was undoubtably good, but the Brazilians say that Garincha was their best player and that Eusabio was better.
Brazil passed a law prohibiting Pele from beeing transfered out of Brazil, he went to the USA when he was well passed his best, and at that time was not even the best player for the cosmo's.
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Well done to Chick Young (who IS he by the way?) for stirring up and perpetuating the jingoism and racism of the Scots against the English.
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Seriously chick, you talk some mince like.. maradona was the greatest EVER then pele!
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Paul Fletcher writes something. If you don't believe me chk his blogs. He's not always there but at least he writes.
Higher paid folk at the BBC - McNulpty and Chick - write nothing. They gossip and blather.
BBC - in these hard economic times, where you want our money for licence fees, i get the impression that quite a few people reckon you should get shot of these aimless witterers or, fair enough, keep them on but insist tht they actually SAY something.
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It's a debate that's really doesn't have a right answer, just a difference in opinions and generations. I wasn't around during the Pele generation, but watching videos etc, in my opinion Maradona is the greatest off all time.
You know what they say; the 1970 world cup Brazil team, would have won the world cup with out Pele, but the 1986 World Cup Argentina side wouldn't even have got out of the qtr's. I think that?s a strong case for Maradona.
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For those who say Pele played in a less physical game, you clearly have not seen the game against germany where his ribs were broken. If it wasn't for Osvaldo Ardiles, Bobby Moore and Mochael Caine we would have lost that game.
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Greatest Ever Players.
1. Maradona
2. Pele
3. Mark Lawrenson
Simple.
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To me the greatest fooballer of all time is either Diego Maradona or Zinedine Zidane. Pele wouldn't make any list for me, I wasn't around when he was playing and the footage just doesn't support the popular claim that he was the best.
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Maradona is the best ever, its not up for debate.
In terms of Blogs on here ,Tim Vickery is Maradona, and Chick, you're Filip Sebo.
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How people can say that Maradona was the greatest player that ever lived beats me, he was a cheat. He cheated against England in 1986 and then tried again in 1994 when he was sent home in disgrace. He had talent no doubt but at the end of the day he was a cheat.
Of his generation Zidane is a far superior player. Zidane on the ball made the beautiful game beautiful. He like Maradona won a World Cup, but also the European Championships in 2000 and came out of retirement to take France (who failed to do anything without him) to the final again in 2006. Admitedly like Maradona his international Career ended in controversy but Zidane was cheated while Maradona was a cheat.
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Maradona's detractors will never truly forgive or forget the Hand of God or his exposure to the darker sides of life. But his sheer brilliance and magic is undeniable, his perfomances and acheivments for Argentina and Napoli eclipse that of any individual player at national and club level over the last few decadess.
The 'you are too young to remember' argument is redundant, football back 'then' was a vastly different game, both physically and tactically than it was during Maradonas era. Just as Maradona's era is vastly different to our own.
However, surely IF Maradona wins the World Cup as Manager, then he is the greatest Footballer, in the absolute sense of the word, that has ever lived? Lifting it is as Manager would propel him beyond Pele's wildest dreams.
For that matter, Im quite sure as the older genaration die out, the Pele v. Maradona question will be slowly but surely replaced by its more accurate replacement, who was the greatest ever player? Maradona or Zidane
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joshbowlslegspin: "Outside of Britain, no one considers George Best to be in the same class as Maradona or Pele. Nor should they."
Yeah mate, that's why they had a minute of silence for him before all league matches in Spain and Italy, because they don't think he was that good.
Get your facts straight.
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Chick. Once again you have demonstrated the incredible depth of your ignorance. Pele over Maradona. On what basis? You need to do a bit more research and form a semi-coherent argument before you close that debate.
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Oh Chick,
Some basic English comprehension please in your pseudo journalistic piece please.
1 sentence is not a paragraph.
It looks stupid.
Or are you shouting at the PC as you type.
And, for the content - banal and cliched as usual. Even to mention Kris Boyd in the same piece of writing as Maradonna, Pele, Best, Cruyff and Billy Mehmet is outrageous. He is not even fit to lace Billys boots.
Kris Boyd made a choice - he walked away, he was not pushed, he was not asked to go, he was just overlooked in favour of another player. Now we can debate for hours the decision of the manager, but that is not the point. Boyd had to make a choice, show the manager that he made a mistake and try harder (the stand up and be counted choice) or walk away and turn his back on his country and comrades (the big bairns choice)
Now history will record that decision but history will also do something else and that is forget about Kris Boyd.
He had his chance, he made his choice and I think I speak for a lot of people when I say this "For pitys sake Chick get over it"
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I came upon this article by mistake after googling 'young chick'. Words cannot express my disappointment.
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throbbinrobin - you need to understand Chick comes from an era where the greatest are not allowed to be toppled. Pele, Ali, Bjorn, Nicklaus, The Beatles and many more. Even Tiger is not up for discussion with these people. A few years ago Maradonna won an onlne pole for the Greatest Ever Player so they had to award it twice as they had already invited Pele to the ceremony. Thats how impossible discussion with single minded chaps can be!
Scotland to win 3-0 and that is not up for discussion!!!!!!!
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C'mon Chick... Pele?
He was a hatchet man.
Maradona had sublime skills and pretty much won his country the world cup single handedly.
There were far better players in the 1970 Brazil team than played alongside Maradona in 1986, but he did everything in that team.
And he got them to the final 4 years later too.
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Maradona - Pele everyone has an opinion yes. but to even consider Maradona anywhere near the standard Pele is a joke. check out the 10 minute clip of Pele on Youtube, then have a search for Maradonna.
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Number 65. "Chick. Once again you have demonstrated the incredible depth of your ignorance. Pele over Maradona. On what basis? You need to do a bit more research and form a semi-coherent argument before you close that debate"
Maybe on the basis that Pele scored over 1000 career goals?!? Or maybe on the basis that Pele was an absolute genius and the greatest goal scorer ever??
Think you should maybe do some research before spouting your mouth off just for the sheer hell of it.
Pele is the greatest ever. All day, everyday and twice on sundays!
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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=icbntQJ351k
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
69. At 12:22pm on 12 Nov 2008, vanhoward wrote:
C'mon Chick... Pele?
He was a hatchet man.
Post 69. You fool.
Pele a hatchet man is SO wrong - that's like saying rory Delap can't throw or Ashley cole is a decent likeable bloke
Pele scored over 1,000 career goals as well as providing some of the most magical moments football has ever seen.
Maradonna was a genius but I believe Pele was more complete.
Both were solid and strong - but neither was a hatchet man - again, you fool.
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I hate you chick.
everytime I read your articles I feel sick.
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?The Tartan Army would snog Diego in a minute?
That is a touch cringe-worthy Chick.
But my reverence for Maradona The Footballer is not simply based on some xenophobic glee at how he tore England a new backside 20-odd years ago, but rather down to the fact that he is the greatest, most talented player ever. Due to either nature or nurture, biology or endeavour, there is no doubt and thus no ?debate? with your enlightened self on this subject. The fact that the Brazilians named Pele ?O Rei? has an acknowledged double edge, as even The King is not always universally loved.
For sheer natural talent, even Di Stefano rates Maradona as the greatest ever ? no other player could have accomplished what he did with Argentina in ?86, and then afterwards with Napoli.
And with regards the other question, when posed Platini himself stated that whilst Zidane could undoubtedly do great things with a ball, Maradona could do great things with an orange.
I?ll be giving the Best Player Ever a standing ovation next week.
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Chick, Chick. Another banal post, full of cliches as usual with a dig at how great everyone who beats England is.
Old Firm fans get abuse for their differences, but hey, it's OK to slag off the English at any given opportunity....
Yes, I'm Scots and happy to see us win, but will always cheer a British team.
'a Diego by..' is truly shocking.
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Chick, please check the Gavin Strachan Blog for some tips on how to write an interesting and informative article. or is this an intention ploy? make your article so poor that it will generate comments? I was there when we beat them 1-0 with Stewart McKimmie's goal, a cracker it was too and it deserved to win the game...You forget that Scotland always play better when they are written off by the everyone and thrive when they are the underdogs, give them a break and get behind them!
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Here - any chance you could sort out the punctuation problems BBC??
How many question-marks does a post need?
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I dunno now, with nearly 80 responses someone must think Chick is doing a good job of stimulating debate.. Do you ever read these comments Chick?
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In 1986 Argentina wouldn't have won the World Cup with out Maradona.
So here's the question; Would Brazil have won the World Cup with out Pele in 1970? I think they would.
What do you think?
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So you don't want to enter a debate Chick? Nothing new there. Look at the stats:
1) Pelé was part of possibly the greatest team ever. As good as he was, he was helped by those outstanding players around him.
Maradona won the World Cup in 1986 more or less single handedly, and was the driving force behind them coming so close in 1990 albeit with such negative football.
2) Pele scored over 1,000 career goals, though hardly a whisker outside the comfort of his own Brazil at club level.
Maradona took Napoli from nowhere to 2 scudettos.
Maradona was the greatest footballer that ever was in my opinion, Pelé was fantastic dont get me wrong. But the ability to influence games/teams/entire tournaments by himself puts Maradona at the top for me.
Many journalists are pro-Pelé due to his PR presence and Maradona's failings. Thats not what its about
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100% agree with that Afterbyner
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@ Aftervyrner: In case we forget, a fair number of people now believe that Pele (or certainly pro-Pele journos and statisticians) did what Romario has since done and padded his goal tally to get it over the 1000 mark.
I'm not taking away from Pele's abilities as a player and probably the most ruthless striker ever because that speaks for itself, but I'd be loathe to use the 1000+ goal argument.
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In regard to the "who was the best?" debate, it's all surely a bit of fun to incite an intense spell of blogging debate; I agree with most though that a bit more content would be helpful. Surely the BBC employ people as being competent enough to say more than [that's the way it is and]... "I'm not even up for discussion on that one." I, for one, would have appreciated an idea of what you (even roughly) base such a view on, and that is surely the least a reader could expect from someone the BBC deems to be an expert; is it honours won? Is it honours won in different places? Is it your ability to win things independently of those around you? Is the distance you cover in a match according to those 'PROZONE' technology type things? (I'm sure we'd get some interesting results in the case of the last one.)
It's a bit of a shame that it has to incite chauvinism; should a BBC writer really, even light-heatedly advocate the idea of lauding a person for harming others? It' one thing that this schadenfreude or pleasure felt at someone else's misfortune actually takes place, but that should be for the blogs rather than the main articles (which should really aim to temper that kind of thing).
I don't say these things to have a go just for the sake of it; I'd just appreciate seeing these things taken into consideration in the future. I actually like Chick's honest and informal approach.
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Poor Chick.
OK, any man who wilfully compares himself with two of the scourges of Scotland (ie the deep fried Mars Bar and Alex Salmond) is kind of asking for it.
But all he is doing is expressing his opinion. The whole point of a hosting a forum is to provide a catalyst for (hopefully) entertaining & (occasionally) insightful debate.
So Chick thinks Pele is the best, but he invites other to discuss.
Oh, and before I get back to work - Number 42 Steve17360 is pretty spot on. As an Englishman who has lived in Scotland most of his life, you do have to put up with a lot of bigotry and xenophobia up here. As he says, most Scots are great people but there is a significant minority to deal with (again, I find myself referring to Alex Salmond).
Case in point: Quite why some Scots deem it necessary to lionise Maradona for leaving a permanant stain on his career, instead of celebrating his remarkable achievements is beyond me....
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Personal I think Pele is big headed and Maradona is a bit damaged. but if they were both super hero's, Pele would be Batman and Maradona would be Robin.
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Chick, I think you should be up for discussion on the whole Maradona or Pele issue.
Maradona was definitely the better footballer, he played in a much harder era and played for better teams whereas Pele spent his career in Brazil and the USA.
Let's base it on footballing ability alone and not personalities.
Paul C
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When it comes to football, fans have very long memories. Everyone here should know that basic fact. I can tell you that no England fans will ever "forgive" Maradonna for cheating his way past us in the World Cup.
We may not think about it any more, until a Blog like Chick Young's appears to stir up the memories. But let me assure you all that Maradonna will always be an extremely unpopular and disliked individual. Yes, he was a great footballer - and also a great handballer.
You Scots can idolise the cheating handyman all you like for conning the referee and scoring that "goal" against England, if you don't have an idea of fair play. But he will never be forgiven.
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YES, Pele did 'pad' his goals tally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pele
1000+? I think not.
And the majority of Pele's (official) club goals were either in regional leagues in Brazil or in the USA!!
Who reported post 41 to the MODS and WHY? MODS - get my post back up there please.
To post 66 (Mybloodrunsgreen) - please please please, before you go on about grammar, take a couple of minutes to find out the facts; after all, you have almost all of the entire record of human knowledge at your fingertips.
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Pele or Maradona?
Both the best players of their generation, and very different types of players.
Maradona was certainly a better dribbler and more instinctive in his play - he would take off on a dribble and make it up as he went. He tended to do everything at 100mph.
Pele seemed more considered (although capable of remarkable improvisation too). He always seemed to know exactly what was going on around him, and never looked rushed.
I'd probably rather pay money to watch Maradona play, just because I prefer his style, but its practically a toss up.
In my opinion Zidane probably falls just short of the big two in the grand scheme of things, alongside Cruyff, Best, Eusebio (and maybe Morgaro Gomis!) etc. Not bad company to keep!
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Maradonna was head and shoulders above anyone else to ever play football on this planet.
You can name a number of people from each world cup winning side from 1966 onwards except 1986, because you only remember Maradonna.
He won the league almost single handedly for Napoli which is like St Mirren winning it in Scotland...even with Billy Mehmet
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I hope Argentina play to their full potential (or nearly to their full ability) as it would be good to see just how far off the very best we are. Barcelona played full tilt against Hibs (until they were 6 up anyway) and seeing as a rather large amount of money is changing hands for the privelige of this match, it would be good to see the Argies take us seriously.
The comment about Maradona being more a motivator than a quality coach is true I reckon. Expect Messi to really flourish whenever he plays for his country. The wealth of talent they have at their disposal is truly frightening and it will be great to see them at Hampden.
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Is black, black and is white, white? probably 99.9% percent of you would agree that black is black and white is white. but you would be wrong. for example if you were a nocturnal animal, white would actually be light gray and black would be gray. oh sorry I'm in the wrong forum. excuse me
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Chick,why don't you learn a bit about football before writing for the BBC ?
Pele better than Maradona ?
Who advised you,the Brazilians ?
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If we are talking about great players why has nobody mentioned Kirk Broadfoot? The guy is a phenonmenon.
thoughts please....
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I stopped reading when you said Pele better than Maradona, i'm sure it was a good article though.
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Surely Kris Boyd is better than either of them ? (sounds of fuse being lit and scampering in the general direction of away)
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Chick Young probably devised Prestwick airports 'Pure Dead Brilliant' tag..thats the man limits.
its a generation of wee uneducated men who were weaned on Oor Wullie and The Broons...whos wit resembles fat boabs
polpot had it right about eliminating the whole lot of them!!!
i wont return to the land of my birth till that wee mans replaced by my mental superior
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I won't go in the whole "Maradona vs Pele", since I believe Garrincha is better than both.
But , as a Brazilian, to those that say that it was easy for him to score goals because he played in Brazil, and why he never went to Europe, a little bit of information, from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pele#Some_historical_perspective
the0craw, since you put this link too, I wouldn't expect that you would make fun of the fact that most of Pele goals were scored in Brazil. I agrre, though, when you say that he pad his tally, and the bit about USA league.
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I completely agree with 83 and 93. There is a saying in football that one player does not make a team. It does when that one player is Maradona.
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Is it me or is international football losing all it's credibility?????
Lio Messi not being released for a friendly. Never used to happen as Country ruled over clubs. Kris Boyd deciding that if he's not getting a game for Scotland he's not up for fighting for a place - Michael Owen isn't getting picked for England but I'd bet my house he'll fight to get back in the team and not whimper out with ''I'm not playing till Capello goes''.
There seems to be no patriotism left in a lot of footballers. No pride behind playing for the shirt. Are you going to tell me that if Novo got called up for Scotland or Almunia for England that they would ''beast it'' for Scotland or would they do a Dominic Matteo??? Handful of caps then retire with a bogus excuse and carry on playing for the next 6 years!! Doesn't wash.
I would just like to say:
Kris.... You don't play solely for George Burley. You play for all the fans who pay and travel to watch The Tartan Army regardless or score so maybe you should have thought twice before deciding to call it quits..... for now. Maybe with the graft that he is showing now he might have actually got a game but maybe the next manager will not be so forgiving for him walking out and decide by that point that McCorrmack or Fletcher are the true assets to Scotland.
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To post 93 - I know what you're getting at with how many players people are likely to remember from World Cup winning sides, however, I do remember two from 1986: Maradona and Brown; but only because Brown is of Scottish descent and scored the opening goal of the '86 final.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he would have been eligible to play for Scotland as his grandfather was Scottish. For sure, it was either his grandfather or his great grandfather he took his surname from.
Post 101, foolrulez - I didn't mean to make fun of that. Just highlighting the fact that it wasn't national championships whereas Maradona scored all of his goals in top-flight football. (and as has already been mentioned, about half of Pele's 1000+ were scored in friendlies)
Anyway, I think it is only right that the greatest football player the world has ever seen will have started both his international playing and managerial careers in the country that taught Argentina all about the game and how to play it.
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The usual sentimental drivel we have come to expect from Chick Young.......can the BBC not do better than this?
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I would like to add as well, for anyone citing the Scots' love of Maradona as being 'anti-English', only stupid people are 'anti-English' and they are very much a minority in Scotland; just the same as there are stupid people everywhere who choose to believe in discriminatory ideologies.
The thing is though, in footballing terms, we just LOVE IT when England get beat. When we lost to Italy in the Euro qualifiers, our nation was in mourning; when England lost to Croatia a few days later, THE PAIN WAS GONE.
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Maradonna over Pele, for me. And I hate Argentina. Brazil won lots of things without Pele. Argentina's only cups were with Maradonna. And they would have won a third, I think, if Maradonna hadn't been shown to have goine skiing (think powdery granules--the mods are so touchy, even on verifiable facts!)
And what about what he did for Napoli? Pele maybe--maybe--was a better pure footballer, but Maradonna did the most for his teams.
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I only agree with you on one point and that is Pele was better than Maradona. As for your closing comments, yes we have to improve our record but it is one thing saying that and quite another to achieve it, particularly against Argentina.
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"Scotland have not won a friendly at Hampden since most of the current team were at school, some in shorts.
That is a mortifying statistic."
Chic,
Please explain to me how this is a statistic at all let alone a mortifying one.
Do you actually know what the word "statistic" means?
What is truely mortifying is that you have kept a job in 'journalism' for so many years!
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all you guys call Maradona a cheat. It's not his fault the officials didn't make the correct goal. What do you expect him to do? Ask for the goal to not be given? Do you reckon England has never been awarded a dubious goal? Get over it. He didn't cheat, the ref just didn't do his job. If anything, the ref cheated england out of...well, really, out of nothing. There's nothing to suggest that England would have won that game, had that goal been disallowed. If Maradona is a cheat, then every player to ever play the game is a cheat, because they've all committed a foul, or a handball. It just happens that in that particular game, refereeing incompentance allowed a goal. If he committed the handball halfway up the pitch, and it bounced off an england player out for a throw in, would you all be ranting about him being a cheat? Get over it. You're supposed to be grown men.
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Post 104, the0craw: Sorry, I may have misinterpreted your point.
I believe that FIFA is overly fond of Pele, allowing him to do things like adding goals scored in friendlies to his total. They don't have to do that to prove he was a great player. I mean, even a Civil War in Africa was stopped just so the people could see him play.
I don't like to compare Pele and Maradona, because they played in different times. Football was more physical at the time Maradona played, and is even more nowadays.
In my opinion for best player, is Garrincha for the 50s, Pele in the 60s, Cruyff in the 70s and Maradona in the 80s.
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maradona was better than pele simply because he played in far inferior teams and still carried them to victory. eg. Argentinos Jrs, Boca Jrs, Napoli in particular and to a lesser extent Barcelona. Even the Argentina sides he played in were, without him, poor in comparison to the Brazil sides of Pele's era. Surrounded by outrageously good teammates, Pele received far more assistance then Diego, who basically single-handedly carried every team he played for. Not that Pele wasn't ridiculously good though!
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neither, however, come close to Jeremy Goss when it comes to all-time greats
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I woke up laughing at something and in my dream it was the funniest thing ever
(like the joke in monty python that was released against the Germans in the war and kills them all)
but in the cold light of day, the object of my nocturnal laughter didnt seem all that funny!!
here it is:
if the underdog against all odds wins,
does he then become the overdog or just the dog?
rsvp
hawkheed mental hospital
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Number 93.
Hmmm, Burrachaga, he scored the final's winning goal. There was also Pumpido in goal.
So 2 isn't bad, and I was 8 aty the time.
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Pele good
Maradonna better
George BEST
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Typical Chick Young, i was starting to get interested in his blog until he mentioned Pele in the same breath as El Diego, it must have been hard scoring over 1000 career goals when he played against such 'top class' opposition all the time
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To consider Pele, who only every competed in the weaker South and North American leagues, to be better than Maradona is nothing but laughable. Maradona plied his trade in two of the toughest leagues in the world and won trophies. He was a major success at Barcelona, where other teams intentionally went to hurt him cos he was too good. He took the bit part team of Napoli and brought them 2 serie A titles, an Italian Cup, and a UEFA cup win. Careca, Carnevale, Ferrara were all good players, granted, but even they will put Maradona at the top of the game. What did Pele do for anyone? Who did Pele play for? You can't compare players based on international performances, because they have international stars playing alongside them. Maradona was also a very tough player.. I've never seen someone kicked so much in a career of football. Even so, Maradona did as much for Argentina as Pele did for Brazil. Maradona is number 1, but Pele is a very close runner-up.
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I'm not sure if this is correct, but about the Maradona thing ...
it's not just the 'hand of God' that labels him a cheat.
is there not a shadow over him that suggests he owes a good part of his success to the cocaine he was taking regularly throughout a period when there was less drug awareness in sport, and less controls to prevent him from doing so?
cocaine being a performance enhancing drug.
to my knowledge, Pele was not a coke adict, and he relied on natural ability. Cruyff and Best and Zizou et al also enjoyed success purely driven by their talent.
but hey, Maradona was in colour!
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Why did you run to publish this article if Maradona waa not the best ever !! Would you have tried to write an article of similar tone if Pele was coming to Scotland coaching Brazil? You yoursef are drown and imerssed by his greatness and you don't wan to acknowledge it. And who are you to give the final verdict and now allow others to enter into a debate.
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The greatest ever was not Pele or Maradona....... It was Zidaane. He won everything that they did even though the world cup was only once. He also played in a more competitive and difficult era with more talented players than the era of Maradona & Pele
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This argument has gone on too long. we all have our own opinions and nobody is going to change their mind. so lets settle for a draw 1 - 1. they were both the greatest players that ever lived.
THE END
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Wow, I always thought I wasn't good enough to play football at the highest level. Now I find I should have just moved to Brazil because the leagues there are so weak that scoring 1000 goals is mere childsplay. It's amazing that Brazil has won so many World Cups given that all the Brazilians who play football are so untalented compared to their European counterparts - except of course for that lot that carried Pele to a World Cup triumph!
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I think that it's mistaken to say either Pele or Maradona were the best players. It's got to be Johnny Haynes!
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Not sure who this Pele is - some r 'n' b upstart?
No, Madonna is far better - I mean her cover of 'American Pie' has to be the greatest record of all time.
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WUM!
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Maddad2005 I can only assume from many of your comments and those of others that you are not old enough to remember Pele play football and are judging from TV footage. The only tournament where you probably have seen much of him would be the 1970 world cup.
Pele played for a very mediocre Santos team and led them to be World Club Champions in two games where they destroyed a very good Benfica team who were then European Champions. Also if you thought that football in the sixties was tame you should watch some footage from those days. Some of the tackles then would lead to assault charges today. Also the Argentina team of the Maradona era was full of very good players and one very exceptional one. He was not a one man team anymore than Man U are a one man team dependent on Ronaldo or Liverpool on Hughes.
The answer to who was best is a matter of personal opinion but most of my contemporaries who saw both at the height of their powers rate Pele just ahead.
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In the mass debate of whether Pele was better than Maradonut you are all forgetting the all time greats of:
George Berry
David Batty
Carlton Palmer
Mick Baxter
All of the above would have shackled the hand of Bod
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I can understand the Pele/ Maradonna comparison, but I must cast doubts on your football knowledge when you question Diego's credentials against Best and Cruyff.
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Interesting how many comments refer to Maradona winning matches and leagues single-handedly. Is that how he played all the time?
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Chic, give it up man. It's boring, it's predictable, it's rubbish.
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Maradona over Pele definately. I also have to mention Georgey Best, how good would he have been if he didn't have all his off field problems? Definately the Greatest British player ever & in the top 5 in the world.
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You expect it from your regular football fan. It is natural that the players who score the goals or go on mazy runs are repeatedly quoted as being the ones who challenge for the title of 'greatest ever'...Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Best et al. However it never fails to grate when reading articles from professional sports journalists who fall into the same trap and fail to mention or give note to the incredible skill of the likes of Beckenbauer. He is arguably the greatest midfield player of all time and was so good in fact that he was able to switch and master another position.
I am not saying that Beckenbauer is the greatest ever player however he would be far more deserving of the title than George Best ever would, or Cruyff for that matter. If a debate exists at all about who is the greatest then i would argue that it is in fact a three-horse race. It is either Pele, Maradona or Franz Beckenbauer.
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A wee note to BettpunchedGillhaus...
George Best was not British! He was from Northern Ireland which along with Great Britain is a part of the UK!
Regarding the claim from the Englishman who lived in Glasgow for 15yrs and says he was sick of the 'racism' aimed at England...it is not racist to support the opponent of your biggest sporting rival! It is analogous to club football. Do Spurs fans support Arsenal against others or vice-versa? Do Rangers fans support Celtic against others or vice-versa? Do Man Utd fans want Man City to do well or vice-cersa? No and there are numerous other examples of this. The problem here lies with the patronising sentiment of the English who claim to want Scotland to do well when in actual fact they non-plussed either way! The difference then is that, as Man City fans hate Man Utd, Man City don't even register with Man Utd fans because they too have forgotten that Man City are their bigest rivals (but not for titles obviously.) Instead they consider the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal to be their biggest rivals because they have forgotten the nature of the game, and the history of it. Just as England have forgotten that Scotland are their biggest rivals, they consider Brazil, Argentina, Germany et al to be their biggest rivals when in actual fact it is Scotland! They always has been and they always will be! It is for that sporting reason that Scotland supporters do not support England and cheer when they get beat. It is not because we are racist toward the English in any way(although i do not dispute that these sporting rivalries often lead some to taking it too far - it happens at a club level too.) The inability of the English to distinguish between the two is remarkable, in part brought about by the fact that they have forgotten why Scotland do not want them to win...because they are out biggest sporting rivals!
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Here's my list of the best based on their impact --titles, etc-- on the global game, since after WWII. In other words, these are the most valuable players (MVPs) since the 50s when football's world dominance can be said to have started. I think this is a more objetive way to discuss this topic, but in no way perfect.
50 Puska's, Di Ste'fano
60 Garrincha, Pele'
70 Beckenbauer, Cruijff
80 Platini, Maradona
90 Roma'rio, Zidane
00 Ronaldo Brasil and...? (Ronaldo Portugal, Ronaldinho, Messi, Kaka'?)
We can discuss skills all day and not get anywhere, but achievements, now that can be measured. You gotta agree this bunch is pretty impressive.
And sorry, Chick, but methinks you're a wee bit off on this one.
AntonioSaucedo
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Ok duncarron, greatest player from the UK. Happy now?
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Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross must be amazed that the BBC gave them the boot yet they allow Chick Young to continue writing this garbage.
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I had to laugh at the Scottish journalists who agreed ( by laughing) with Maradona comment about Englands?Geoff Hursts goal in 1966.That was a refereeing /linesman decision-Geoff Hurst did not cheat,no wonder Butcher is still annoyed.Was nobody brave enough to ask that question?
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Just go to "youtube" and enjoy Maradona.
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