Khan and Roach on the right road
The boos following Amir Khan's defeat of Marco Antonio Barrera suggest the Bolton lightweight still has some way to go to placate his more trenchant critics - and that the British disease of wanting to see their own fail has yet to be eradicated.
Put simply, Khan did what he had to do at the MEN Arena in Manchester, although the manner of victory wasn't entirely satisfactory. However, promoter Frank Warren, having seen three of his fighters suffer potentially career-ending defeats on the undercard, would surely disagree.
The cut sustained by Mexican legend Barrera in the opening round certainly spoilt the fight as a spectacle, but Khan still did enough to show that his partnership with venerable American trainer Freddie Roach, only two fights old, is having the desired effect.
Khan was too fast, too strong and ultimately too young for his 35-year-old opponent, although it shouldn't be forgotten that Barrera was effectively one-eyed for most of the fight. Crucially, Roach is also succeeding in moulding a more patient, cerebral fighter.
"I thought I had everything, but as soon as I got together with Freddie I realised I was making a lot of mistakes and that I had to change," said Khan after his fifth-round technical decision over the bloodied Barrera, a former three-weight world champion.
"When I saw the blood, I stayed focused and stepped back - the old Amir Khan would have tried to knock him out.
"Training with Freddie was like doing a jigsaw, everything just fell into place. Freddie is the man who can take me all the way. He makes champions and hopefully I'm his next one."
Roach declared the victory Khan's "first step on the road to greatness". And as the trainer of pound-for-pound king Manny Pacquiao and former trainer of Mike Tyson, Bernard Hopkins and James Toney among others, the softly-spoken Roach, who learnt under the legendary Eddie Futch, presumably knows what he's talking about.
Questions will persist about the fragility of Khan's chin, but only because he used his physical advantages to such great effect that Barrera was unable to get near him. Which is, of course, half the battle.
Warren, who had suggested beforehand that the fight was effectively an eliminator for the WBO lightweight crown, sounded more cautious at the post-fight press conference, revealing that Khan could instead have one or two more tune-ups.
The good news is that Juan Manuel Marquez, who beat Barrera in 2007 and who some believe to be the best fighter in the world, has vacated his WBA and WBO belts and is rumoured to be stepping up to light-welterweight to fight the 'retired' Floyd Mayweather.
As for Barrera, who turned pro at the age of 15 and who has engaged in 72 fights (almost unheard of in the modern era), surely it's time to hang 'em up and get fat, just as Naseem Hamed decided to do after losing to Barrera in 2001. Barrera is neither "Baby-Faced", nor an "Assassin", any longer.
While Khan put his impressive display down to old-fashioned discipline and attention to detail, Enzo Maccarinelli admitted after his knockout defeat to Nigeria's Ola Afolabi that he hadn't sparred a single round in the lead-up to the fight.
"I find that amazing," said Warren, who also expressed surprise that Enzo Calzaghe, Maccarinelli's trainer, had been spending time in court with his son Joe, who is involved in a legal battle with Warren, instead of in the gym with his charge.
Afolabi, who was born in London and who now lives in the United States, fought the perfect fight against Maccarinelli, sensing the Welshman was struggling early on and letting him blow himself out before delivering the coup de grace in round nine. It is difficult to see where Maccarinelli goes from here.
Add Newbridge's Commonwealth light-middlweight champion Bradley Pryce, knocked bandy by Manchester's Matthew Hall, to the list, and it was shaping up to be a night to forget for Warren, whose list of headline fighters is dwindling.
Thankfully for Warren, the new and improved Khan was on hand to ease the pain. The first step on the road to greatness? Let's just say it was a step in the right direction.
Hello. I have been working for the BBC for almost a decade now and cover almost all sports, but particularly cricket and boxing. It would be good to hear from you - just don't be nasty or my mum might get upset.
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I have to ask, and i am sure people will correct me, but if the cut that stops the fight is caused by a clash of heads does it go down as a win to Khan?? For some reason i remember Lewis beating Vladimir Klitschko and the Klitschko's camp claiming it was from the clash of heads and therefore not valid. If anyone could enlighten me that would be great.
As for the fight. Khan looked fast, his punches seemed a lot more powerful then in his last few fights. He also seemed able to take punches, something i wasn't sure he could.
Nice blog Ben, can't wait for your thoughts on the Cricket in the summer.
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Regardless of the cut, the manner in which Khan boxed right from the word go suggested that he would have most certainly have beaten Barrera if the fight had gone the distance. The only way Barrera may have stopped him would have been to land a KO punch. But Khan didnt look like he would allow Barrera close enough. Kept him at bay with the long jab and high speed.
The speed is just phenomenal. Combine that with Roach's expert training and in a few years time (not now. I am not sure if Khan should get carried away at this moment) he can become a world beater.
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Khan will struggle to win people over now because before his previous fights he was too ahead of himself; too cocksure in his own ability when he hadn't mixed it with anyone of note. He might be difficult to hit under Roach's regime but unlike Floyd Mayweather, who is a nightmare to tag down, he can't take a punch if be makes a mistake. Put him in with a world class fighter who can punch on the button and it's lights out for Khan... this is why he will never be a genuinely world class fighter.
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Here here Ben, good post and totally agree with your last sentiments. Yes it was a decent win for Khan but lets not get ahead of ourselves. It was against an aged fighter who was fighting at a higher weight thatn he has for practically his entire career and he picked up a nasty cut in the first round. Yes Khan did what he did well, hit him with some good combinations and didn't get caught by too many shots but he was practically fighting against someone who was blind in one eye. Its not so hard to look good when you're opponent can't see the shots coming clearly. All in all I'd say a good workout for him and would have boosted his confidence but if I was him I wouldn't start calling out any of the champions of the division just yet.
As for Maccarinelli what are the excuses being rolled out for the lack of sparring Ben? Is Warren trying to win points on Enzo Calzaghe by blaming it on him or was this Maccarinelli's fault? Its hard to believe after the way Haye took him apart and the excuses that came out then that he went in poorly prepared to this fight as well. It seems the fact is he's just not good enough to fight at the top-level. His career was managed well enough that he got a world title without facing anyone particularly dangerous, defended it a few times until he came up against one of the top boxers from the division. And now maybe he realises he's been found out and the confidence has been drained from him. I hope we don't see him box on too much longer though, he can't go on and win a title again and he's likely to do serious damage to himself if he tries, particularly in a heavy-punching division like cruiserweight.
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Icecold - Hello mate, just on the train down so thought I'd log on and have a chat. The rule is that if four rounds of a fight are completed, then it has to go to the judges' scorecards, any less and it's a no contest. There were some consipracy theorists at ringside suggesting that the ref deliberately stretched things out to avoid a no ncntest, but that is, I must stress, idle conjecture. Although, it is interesting to note that Barrera's cut wasn't really any worse in round five than in round one.
I agree, I thought Khan looked controlled and sharp. It was a solid performance.
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If he been stopped inside 4 rounds its a non- contest, makes you think.
Regards the boo's, dont underestimate just how beloved MAB is by british boxing fans, aswell as any supposed dislike for Khan.
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sublimesuperspur - Enzo Calzaghe has basically come out and said "Macca never spars anyway", but then it seems strange that Macca would bother pointing out specifically that he hadn't sparred for this one. Who knows, because neither of them turned up for the post-fight presser. I thought Alofabi fought a very clever fight. He rocked Macca early, so knew full well he had the power to take him out, before rope-a-doping Macca and letting him blow himself out. Some might think I'm giving Alofabi too much credit, but I'm convinced it was deliberate because depite doing very little in the middle rounds he wasn't blowing hard either.
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James-Toneys-gut - Agreed, Barrera's reception was rapturous. But would Barrera's fans have returned the favour had the fight been in Mexico City? Don't think so. And there certainly wouldn't have been anyone booing him. Even more extraordinary, when James DeGale, who was ringside, was announced, he didn't just receive the odd boo, pretty much the whole crowd booed him. You seriously have to question the mentality of some boxing fans. He won an Olympic gold medal a few months ago!
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I agree Ben, Ive defended Degale before on these boards, I think unfortunatley future olympians are going to suffer from some very suspicious boxing fans in the UK, who had their fingers burnt by Harrison and to some extent Khan himself. Not that that is an excuse to boo a fellow countryman on his debut.
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There was a guy (called andy something) commenting on another 606 thread that he went to the MEM last night. He claimed that he heard racist things being said about Amir Khan and that some of these people had come specially to see Khan lose. When Khan won, these same fans apparently booed him.
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Ben - picking up on the gold medal thing, it did make me laugh when they announced MAB's long list of achievements - and what a list - then they start Khan's with he recently won the Olympic...silver. Not knocking his achievement, it just sounded a little, well, insignificant after MABs long list of World titles.
Also, was the Maccarinelli fight a TKO? If he got knocked out why is it a TKO and not a KO?
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And he said these people were not Mexicans but locals from the Manchester area judging from their accents
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Ellis, its because he made the count, and the referee decided he couldnt continue
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Ah ha. Thanks James_Toneys_gut.
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Its a shame the main event went the way it did, it was a really good night of boxing up to that point, especially with Macklin on ITV4 aswell.
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I can't help thinking this idea that Khan has a chandelier chin is a little over cooked. Yeah he got knocked out by Prescott, but it was helluva punch that for my 2cents would have knocked out most fighters in the division.
For me, much more of a concern was that he allowed himself to get tagged in that way so early in the fight. It seems to me that fault has been addressed. I think it is far too early to be able to totally assume that any half decent shot from any fighter and the lights will be out.
I wonder if what will end up transpiring is that getting knocked out by Prescott will end up being the best thing that ever happens to Khan?
One thing I will say, is that as a fraternity us fight fans are worse than any other types of fanboys in the way we seem to have unshakable pre-conceived ideas. I sometimes despair when reading the comments on these blogs, and on the 606 boards. Once people like/dislike a fighter they seem blind to reason.
The facts about Khan is that he is young, quick and skillfull and *may* have a suspect chin. Until he has fought a bit more at the otp level none of us can know really....
I look forward to watching his career with interest!
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The cut really did ruin it. Khan did look a better fighter, his guard was virtually glued to his head and he seemed a lot more composed. At the end MAB said he couldn't even feel Khan's punches (of course, he would), I didn't really see him that affected by anything Khan hit him with though. I wonder how it would have played out without the cut. I'm guessing a Khan win on points for his sheer industry, then people putting it down to Barrera's age rather than the cut.
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It's not being a trenchant critic to not let the evidence of one fight change your mind. It's intelligence. After 4 or 5 mostly unimpressive fights where a cast of palookas and never will bes managed to embarrass Khan one win should not change anyone's opinion. This is probably a case trenchant fandom seeing what they want to and extrapolating one fight.
Indeed it is not the critics but Khan who has condemned himself saying stuff along the lines of I never realised this was a business where you had to work. Khan knocked himself down and whilst we mostly hope he'll now be professional, train and learn it is surely the individuals who want to leap up and damn the critics who are being reactionary and weak here?
Cautious optimism that he clearly has learned something to mitigate his world class weaknesses as Gomez called them is surely as far as anyone rational and reasoned would go? Boxing/sport is full of fighters/people rededicating to prove people wrong and then reverting to type.
This Blairite polarisation where you are either dyed in the wool fan or a critic is childish and without meaning any insult churlish. Almost everything is shades of grey and nuance.
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Its easy to beat old men past there time, come on am I the only guy who thinks this was a discrace to boxing!
Frank Warren promotions at its very worst MAB's is a spent force! yes great in his day but every dog has its day and it was a very long time ago indeed.
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---" 8. At 12:57pm on 15 Mar 2009, Ben Dirs - BBC Sport wrote:
Even more extraordinary, when James DeGale, who was ringside, was announced, he didn't just receive the odd boo, pretty much the whole crowd booed him. You seriously have to question the mentality of some boxing fans. He won an Olympic gold medal a few months ago! "---
James DeGale's booing does seem a bit unnecessary but hopefully it will act as a wake up call to the lad who has been talking himself up as a World Champion professional; even though in his first fight against a very weak opponent he boxed like he was still wearing his amateur vest (pitter-patter punches and then move out of the way). 'Funtime' Frankie and The Other One Who Got The Least Billing But Has Come On The Most Out Of The Three looked significantly better professional boxers on the night.
---" There were some consipracy theorists at ringside suggesting that the ref deliberately stretched things out to avoid a no ncntest, but that is, I must stress, idle conjecture. Although, it is interesting to note that Barrera's cut wasn't really any worse in round five than in round one "---
Yes. That was interesting. Idle conjecture is interesting.
Amir did what he had to do. He's built on his strengths: His handspeed, the throwing of punches in bunches and his power. BUT what we don't know from that fight is whether he has improved on his negatives: The chin (or lack thereof) and the defence when under pressure. And as soon as Barrerra's forehead started to peel like an orange, we were never going to find out.
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10 and 12
That was me that posted that on the 606 forum. Yes i did witness that unfortunently. Granted it wasnt all, but there was a element that wasnt there to boo Khan because they were massive Barrera or Mexican (if they were mexican why didnt the boo Nicky Cook because he was heavily cheered by the crowd when fighting a mexican) Whether people like to hear it or not there was a racial undertone last night and those people have to ask themselves the real reason why they did what they did last night. And it wasnt just the boos it was what was being shouted during the fight. Interesting to hear Degale get booed during the ringside introductions - clearly he has not won over the fans - do they people think Audley part 2? We were saying what has he done to deserve those booes?
But not to take away from a great evening of boxing, i really enjoyed it the whole card seemed to be about Knockouts - Bradly Price took 3 bad knockdowns and Enzo getting Koed too - that was a real shocker but he just couldnt seem to deal with his opponents style who only had 5 ko's before last night. Nicky Cook loss didnt surprise me as i have never been totally convinced by him and when you fight an mandotary unbeaten mexican you should be very wary.
As for Khan - watching it live i didnt see the headclash as it happened so quick but the pics and brief clips i have seen it was significant. But Barrera looked old in there and Khan was sharp and his combos were like lightening, i think without the cuts he wins by a mile on points or stops him late. He will still have to convince a lot of people that he is the real deal, because now his critics will blame the headclash, the cut ot the fact Barrera is not the fighter he was... but the one thing he has got is box office appeal - whether you like him or not - people will flock in to watch him. Whether he is read for a world title fight i dont know - personally i would give him two more fights than go for it, but if its Marquez than that is going to be a tough hurdle to conquer
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I hate to sound negative, but last night's result stunk to high heaven.
As Barrera commented after the fight, if they were going to stop the fight, then it should actually have been stopped in the 1st when the clash of heads first occured, thus giving us a no contest....Barrera's injury did not improve nor worsen from the moment it happened.
Was it just coincidence that the officials allowed the fight to develop to the point where we were ensured of a decision??...I don't think so.
As for the fight itself, well Khan looked good, quick on his feet, quick hands, solid looking defence, however, fighting a virtually blind veteran boxer isn't exactly showing us anything we didn't already know Khan possessed.
There are plenty of much harder tests out there for Khan, anybody trying to say that last night proves he's reached the peak are merely deluding themselves....Be interesting to see what happens when Khan meets somebody of a similar reputation and ambition (a la Prescott), will his new found skills learnt from Roach be enough to protect that suspect chin??
Talking of suspect chins, come on down Enzo Maccranelli!!!...Funniest sight of the night was watching the over-rated Welshman clinging on for dear life during round 2, and then getting his lights put out late on by a guy, who while durable, was very, very average.
Maccaranelli is, and always has been, a classic example of Frank Warren's astute matchmaking...Match him with bum after bum, building up his reputation, and then watch as once exposed to a half decent fighter, he gets shown up for the one trick pony he is.
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Khan looked awfull. Powder puff punching and jumping in and out like a maniac against an old man who couldnt chase him back. Freddie Roach is a good trainer but the money is the same colour for him as it is everybody else. Don't be dazzled by his hand speed the quality of his shots and his balance are poor. I lost count of the amount of times his back foot was of the floor when he threw his back hand.
The fight should have been stopped in the first round anyway because the cut was no worse at the end than it was in the begining so why wait??
Barrera is a spent force the name was beaten - not the man.
I feel sorry for Khan actually because I think that he believes his own hype. Nobody can fight like that for twelve rounds and the first decent guy he comes up against it's lights out. If he has " come of age" (lol) then when will he fight Bredis Prescott again??
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come on khan! north west is best
p.s the daily mail readers need to stop putting him down he may be given too much media attention but at least hes exciting to watch and has the balls to gamble against the likes of barrera. I don't see anyone else making such moves
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Khan wins, Barrera loses and on to the next match......
Khan looked technically sound and fast. Can't see Roach letting him get too far ahead of himself, even tho he reckons Khan will be his next world champ.
Barrera at 35 is still a decent test and whilst the cut spoilt the spectacle Khan did what was required.
Don't think he'll be calling out Marquez or Pacquiao yet though. Not if he wants to continue his career.
As for Enzo, time for the job centre, he surely can't have any significant mark to make in the cruiserweight ranks now and heavyweight would be an even bigger risk.
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I think khans had enough time to "bring himself on". What are we waitng for like? Evander Holyfield fought for the title in his 13th fight. By the way I read the daily mail and I've just been to the gym this morning traing with two lads that have a british title eliminator and a european title fight respectivley coming up.
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As long as Khan avoids any of the top 100 Mexicans he will do OK. With Frank running the show he should be a World Champion for years without fighting anyone, well anyone at their peak.
Frank has done this in the past with Hamed and Calzaghe, and should be able to do the same with Khan.
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i was at the M.E.N arena yesterday aswell and yeah there was a racist vibe. I heard people say "paki" while i was there and when i slipped and fell flat on my arse beacause of all the wet floor, i had a skinhead square up to me!
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Ben Dirs said:
The boos following Amir Khan's defeat of Marco Antonio Barrera suggest the Bolton lightweight still has some way to go to placate his more trenchant critics - and that the British disease of wanting to see their own fail has yet to be eradicated
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I am afraid that he will never win the love of a certain section of supporters. Unless he has plastic surgery and changes his name to a Christian one.
Sorry to be so direct but it is starting to become obvious why certain people dislike him.
Go and check the comments people are posting on youtube under the Amir Khan vs Barrera fight promotion and discussion videos. It is sickening. They wont post that stuff here on 606 as it will get deleted.
There should be a policy (if it dosent exist already) that if anyone is heard saying racist things inside a boxing arena should be punished.
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Right lets get things straight ,To me khan already shows how bad english boxing is at the moment,I mean to me a great champion avenges his defeats,not fight old fighters obviously past their best,why hasnt he even mentioned a rematch with the fellow that knocked him sparko,isnt that the only wat to show how so called great khan is?And the most obvious way to show as he keeps saying that it was a fluke,But no frank warren yet again side steps and gives a khan another easy feast ripp us all of 15quid a whack on sky for the wrong fight,the public want to see him avenge his first defeat,but no doubt he will be fed with these one sided fights,untill one day they actually put him in with someone whos average enough to expose his weak chin,obviously frank warren already knows this,so ENGLAND you wont see him in a real fight with the guy who took him apart,because theres no profit in putting him in with someone decent and on form,and please dont insult my intelligence and say barrera was credible?he looked old worn,and not even a shadow of his former self,and anyone in the top 20 would have done the same to him last night,it was never a risky fight,they dont happen in english boxing anymore.Its the same with joe calazaghke all his fight were hand picked and well managed i mean roy jones was past his peak,chris eubank,in fact everybody joe fought was past their sell by date,even that kessler bloke from america looked shot before he even walked into the ring,and lets face it whom had he really fought in terms of greatness,If joe was a great fighter why not end his carrer fighting the likes of antonio jarvier instead of a faded fighter just with a good name of past?
Lennox lewis same thing,never wanted to step in the ring with holyfield at his best,or tyson,very clever management,he never fought bowe,and the first real fight he gets into with klitchko he bloody retires.And so typical of english sporting heroes overated and very well managed,im a true boxing fan,but im no mug,these guys have the cheek to call themselves great fighters,none of them have fought a peaked fighter in their careers,Hagler,holyfield,ali all fought with their fists not bullshit management and over rated hype.
unless khan avenges his first defeat the public will never really support him,so is this going to happen?
Or is another naseem well managed fight a few worn out bums lose his first real fight scenario really what their protecting..
Frank warren must be laughing all the way to the bank.
But that aint greatness...
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intellectualdanny,
There are all kinds of conspiracy theories. I wont dismiss them out of hand cos some of them may be true. But until it is proven we cant say it is fact.
There are rumours that RJJ failed drug tests repeatedly from 1996 or something. And some people posted some documents proving the testing authority had exposed it (could be fake documents who knows). But apparently this was kept hush for some reason and it didnt come out into the open.
Barrera himself has been accused of using drugs aswell (he made some funny fart that is supposed to be diarrhoea induced by stanazolol) as putting hard substance under his gloves (like Antonio Margarito).
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Some guy even has video footage where he claims that Tyson can be seen talking to Razor Ruddock and telling him exactly when to fall down to what kind of punch he is going throw next.
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Intellectualdanny,
Joe Louis did not have rematch with Schmelling straight away. And there are other fighters who had rematches much later. Khan may have rematch with Prescott at anytime in the future.
Dont forget that Sugar Ray Robinson refused to fight against Charlie Burley (whom is regarded as the greatest p4p fighter but never achieved fame because he was ducked by everyone). Charley Burley was apparently so brilliant that he hardly ever got hit cleanly.
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Whether the booing was racially motivated, I honestly couldn't say - I'm not deliberately sidestepping the issue, but I simply didn't hear anything of that nature.
leonthebarbarian - "Khan looked awful"? That's just a bizarre comment I'm afraid. How exactly was it "awful"? That strikes me as a comment by someone who wants everyone else on here to believe that he knows more about the dark arts of boxing than everybody else.
As for DeGale, I kind of understand why people might have the hump with him. I don't think Warren does his fighters many favours by hyping them up so early, it clearly gets people's backs up. That said, it's still not an excuse for the treatment he's being given. How many people in that crowd have won a gold medal for Britain? None, probably.
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leonthebarbarian
Just read yor post after posting mine....
Yes you really see it..
Its not boxing its management....
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Having just watched the replay on Sky Box Office, maybe I was being a bit harsh on Khan last night. He was obviously half a second ahead of Barerra in every department which is obviously down to Barerra's age and career catching up with him.
What disappointed me most about last night was that the questions about Khan still remain, how hard does he really punch at World level? and Can he take a punch at World level, yeah his defensive work and speed had improved, but the two key questions about him remain unanswered. If Barerra had not been cut so bad in the first round due to an accidental headbutt, those two questions may have been answered last night. But fair play to Khan, he did what he had to do and I am sure those questions will be answered in the future. However, I am not sure whether we will like the answers!
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Have to say, the "British Disease" syndrome is half engendered by the athlete themselves, showing more arrogance than acceptable, while their achievements don't reflect that, but also by the cynical management and match making which pushes certain boxers prematurely into the limelight.
For instance, I don't think anyone would have a problem with Khan if he'd gone the traditional route of British and European titles, before talking about a world title tilt, but Frank Warren seems to have a habit of fast-tracking his fighters beyond these straps, thus robbing them of valuable experience, while at the same time boasting that they're to good for the domestic competition.
I'm sure that's now the reason that Macca's failing.
Khan had a good win last night, but as already said on here, the cut must be taken into account.
No judgement on his being "world level" can really be made until he has beaten all his domestic rivals and been in with some no nonsense prime top ten fighters.
Hope he does well though....I for one don't suffer from "British Disease"..
Great Blog Ben, keep up the good work!
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By the way, Intellectual Danny, I think it's a bit harsh to label Naz as overmanaged.
He did have some really thrilling fights against gritty fighters (Kevin Kelley springs to mind), where his chin and heart were tested and he came out on top.
This may sound like an excuse, but many people think that if he'd trained properly for the Barerra fight and not split with Brendan Ingle, he may well have won......but he didn't and thats history.
But he's definately not an overmanaged Macca type figure.
I didn't care for the arrogance (although i think it was tongue in cheek), or the antics, but he was definately an amazingly talented fighter with a knock out punch in either hand.
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I also think Frank Warren's done DeGale no favours whatsoever.
The higher they hoist him when he's not done anything yet, the further he'll fall.
Why doesn't Warren realise that the most valuable development for a fighter normally takes place in obscurity, not under the glare of publicity, when they're gonna be to worried about they're image to train properly.....
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Ben,
Enjoy reading your blogs. However, I think people need to stop making excuses for some of the disgraceful and boorish behaviour by the alleged 'fans' last night. I was there and unfortunately it was clearly evident that a lot of the boos, jeering and support of barrera was racially motivated. A lot of these 'fans' tried to mask their 'bias' by pretending they were 'fans' of the legendary mexican, but ultimately they betrayed this line of thought with some of the racist language they used (which I cannot repeat on a public forum).
Unfortunately, a lot of them came not to see a fight, not to support a ring legend like barrera, not to oppose khan because of his lack of previous performances or even jealousy, but simply because they wanted to see a p-word get bashed.
Disgraceful behaviour.
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If that's true, lefthook7, thats pretty worrying.
That people will pay money just to shout the P word.
Ironic really, cos Khan has always stressed his pro Britishness, with his Dad having two flags etc etc, unlike Naz, who seemed to take pleasure in pointing out that he was really Yemeni and that this was merely where he grew up.
Shame if Khan is now attracting these hooligans.
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Well done Amir, I'm living out here in LA now, and popped along with my 11yr old son to see Amir at the Wildcard Gym a few days before he returned to the UK for the Barrera fight...He worked the pads with Freddie and Michael Moorer and I tell you that the whole gym stopped and realised when there was a class act present.
The boy deserves all the praise, don't knock him..... He and his Dad were outgoing, appreciative of our support, and took the time. Credit to themselves they were and a positive representation of the UK abroad. Not often you can say that I fear !!!!
BTW..... Stuff it up the Aussies in the Summer.....!
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I disagree with anyone, who based on what happened in the first round, thinks Mr Khan was going to win. Clearly, if you watch the video over, can you call it accidental. There is a great angle in the replay, where you see Barrera's eyes are not on Khan, but Khan clearly sees that he will headbutt. Always the person who initiates a headbutt will have much less damage. Khan did nothing to avoid it, seeing it was coming, and even came forward to butt. As far as the skills etc. Notice that at the end of the fight Barrera has almost no damage, but Khan's right eye has a welt. I boxed for years and I can say with confidence that this win should be nullified and a rematch should take place. As Barrera said, Khan didn't hurt him and his face shows it. Very dodgy indeed.
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Khan's performance highlights Roach's genius. The change in Khan was obvious in the first 30 seconds. How do you defeat an old man; you make him chase you and then launch just as he thinks he's caught you. Khan's in-out attack was superb, but most important, was the way Roach has schooled him to protect THAT chin. Khan's high guard was an obvious major adjustment from Roach. I think the booing won't go away any time soon, it is the English mentality, the same as chanting. In the case of Degale, he simply won't be accepted until he achieves something. He's been paid too much so far as a professional for nowt. I'm a die-hard fan, but Olympic medals don't mean a thing to me, it is the same 'sport' but simply not comparable
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I agree that there may have been an element of conspiracy in order to keep the fight going to the 5th to get a result, in order not to be faced with lots of dissapointed fans who'd paid a lot to see a fight, but the history of boxing is littered with such controversies.
And as far as the record books will tell, for Khan its a win, and a win is a win is a win after all.
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"Clearly, if you watch the video over, can you call it accidental."
LMAO.....
Deary me, these boards illustrate my point from my earlier post...... sheesh!
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As soon as the fight was finished my intial rant demanded a rematch, but when I watched the replay, Khan just looked marginally too quick for Barerra, but this was obviously after the headbutt. It would've been interesting to see what would've happened without the headbutt, because in the post fight interview Khan's face did look pretty bruised considering Barerra only landed a handful of punches.
I'm all for a rematch, this fight proved nothing about Khan or Barerra.
PS As long as SKY don't charge another £15 for it, that was my last PPV that I'll ever pay for, the only thing that made it worth it was Maccarinelli's knock out loss, I was howling with laughter at the way he got clocked and went down. It proved he was all hype, just like Amir I fear.
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You were referring to me Ferrettbadger, and I'm guessing you think I was partisan as to Barrera, hardly, I only saw what I saw on a replay I have on my comp. In actual time its so fast and from the initial angles barely visible. But in replay, its obvious, Khan saw it, went for it, and Barrera's eyes were up in the air. It was an obvious shot to take and he took it. I am sure if Barrera pushes it the decision to not stop initially or to call it a clash of heads will be overturned. You can download the fight on torrent sites and see it clearly.
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Should have been a no-contest and stopped earlier. Disgraceful that loss goes on Barrera's record. Absolute disgrace. In the eyes of all boxing fans that was a no-contest. Only Ben Dirs and Frank Warren think that was a win!
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I was embarrassed by the way Khan celebrated 'winning' the fight. He acted as if he had knocked the living daylights out of Barrera, when maybe just raising his fist in the air would have been appropriate. In a way one gets the feeling he was grateful for the cut.
That fight should not have progressed beyond round 2, as whatever points Khan may have raked up subsequently were no doubt due to the fact he was fighting a boxer who was blind in one eye. In my opinion he should have done better considering MAB's age, and the conditions MAB was boxing under. But I dont think I can say there was a single punch that really rocked MAB. Khan is a fraud, who can only slap. He will be exposed the minute he meets an average Mexican/Pueto Rican.
As for Enzo he was just outclassed. He spent half the time pushing his opponent to the ropes, where he couldn't even inflict ny sort of damage. We were talking with my mates and I said the minute that fight is going to stay in the middle of the ring Macca is getting knocked out, and it happened just like that. Credit to Ola, he had a superior jab and his right was always looking like it would cause damage if it connected. To sum it up, last night was a disgrace to British boxing. I wasn't ringside, but had I been there I would have booed Khan not for his race(am black), but for being the fraud that he is.
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WiStAhM - "Only Ben Dirs and Frank Warren think that was a win". That's right mate, only me and Frank Warren... Good God, there are some seriously paranoid customers out there...
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I wasn't so clear with my comment, I should have a ?. Clearly, if you watch the video over, can you call it accidental?
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The only decent thing to do after last night would be for Khan to offer Barerra a rematch and let all the people who ordered last nights fight or bought tickets get a good discount on the rematch, or he should fight Briedis Prescott again in his next fight, if it's going to be on PPV.
Otherwise, whoever they put in front of Khan I certainly won't be paying to watch, unless it's Pacquiao or Marquez and Khan is a long way away from that.
The solution? Take him off PPV for at least two fights, then when he is ready for a big title shot put him back on again. His next PPV bout, if Warren is anything to go by, will just infuriate fans even more, who are being asked to fork out their hard earned money for a fighter that hasn't even fought for a world title yet!
We don't have to pay, just becuase Khan signed a lucrative contract with SKY, he's already a millionaire, I don't need it rammed down by throat that he is the next superstar, when his performances after 21 fights has done little to convince me of that!
PS If Khan and the media were a little more humble last night, my view may have been slightly different.
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I admit i had a tear in my eye seeing great Barrera pretty much ending in his career in a way that so many ther greats have done. Watching Marco Antonio Barrera 2009 nothing more than a shadow of himself reminded me of Ceasar Chavez and Ruberto Duran. Barrera was trying to 'establish his career again'..... come on do me a favour, why the hell does he need to do that. One of the greatest fighters we've seen in the last 20 years, worth hopefully millions and one of the most down to earth champions ive seen to date and he needs to kick start his career against Khan 13 years younger who obviously was 10lbs+ heavier.
A title eliminator? Why first would Khan deserve that and Barrera if he had won would surely have done himself no favours long term. Khan held himself very well against the fading great which even now would be very intimidating but come on that victory proved absolutely nothing except Amir now moves back with his hands up, thankfully for him down to Mr Roach!
As Barrera said he had 6 title defences at Khans age which not only speaks for its self but shows how British fighters these days have a much easier route or is it down to their lack of ability.
Macca's career looks over because the lack of sparring? If that was the case it shows he's no good. Ive never heard of so much twaddle in all my life. He in my eyes has always been a bully boy who is expected to produce much more than he actually can.
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PPS Ben you are a great blogger. At least you have the balls to defend your points, unlike a certain Mr Bose in cricket or Mr Cram in athletics, who both seem to think they are above us mere public folk!
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JobyJak - Well, I thought I might as well, it's either this or watching the Antiques Roadshow..
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Khan won the fight and congrats to him. Personally, the cut was disappointing and really hampered Barerra and didn't really show what would have happened in the later rounds.
Good to see Khan with a greater defence, Roach has done a great job and proves why he's one of the best coaches out there.
In my opinion, Khan is still chinny. Sure enough he has the speed and hopefully he will win quickly otherwise the longer fights go the lower his hand will fall and this is when he will be vunerable to a big puncher.
Good luck to him.
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Joby, dont get me started on Cram and his Chambers obsession.
I dont totally agree with your assessment, Ben, but it was generally accurate and far better than the dreadful Sky team. You'd think they had just witnessed Ali vs Williams mark II the way they went on.
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james_toneys_gut - To be honest, I haven't seen Sky's coverage so can't really comment, but I guess that's just the Sky way, and indeed the way with a lot of broadcasters today. Colin Hart tells a story about getting the boot from a TV channel a few years back for saying a boxer (I can't remember which one) wasn't actually that good. As far as his bosses were concerned, he wasn't doing his job properly.
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A strange fight, and one which leaves more questions than answers. But in a way that's how Warren will like it... people will still pay to hopefully see him win, pay to hopefully see him lose, or perhaps just pay to see a near-certain knockout.
And if I were inclined to pay good money to Sky/Warren for these fights, I'd be in the last of these camps. Powerful punches, thrown in bunches, with a dodgy chin and possible defensive weakness? Excitement guaranteed!
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Murray, Romanov and then Prescott
Then I'll happily jump on Amir's bandwagon, and urge him on for a world title shot. I do feel he has some more to offer though.
He looked good, too many factors hindering the win but on the whole its decent to get a 'name' under your belt, regardless of the fight circumstances.
P.S Can anyone seriously see him in the ring with Casamoya, Diaz, Marquez or Nate Campbell?
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CNN just posted that they were shocked that Amir Khan was booed in his own area and Barrera was cheered so loudly! See? Everyone across the world is puzzled.
This is a disgrace! It is clear that many of these racist people went to the arena in the hope that Khan will get humiliated. But he didnt. So now they come on the interent and are spewing out the hate like i have not seen before. Ofcourse on BBC due to the strict rules you wont see such hateful comments.
Some of these fans say they hate Khan because he has a glass chin and/or he is overhyped. But then the real sinister reasons emerge as soon as the P word comes out of their mouths.
Welcome to the year 2009 people. Some people still living in Medieval times with their narrow minded bigotry.
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Those of you who think i am being paranoid. Go to youtube and look at the comments under the Khan videos. It is just shocking. And many of these comments coming from British members on youtube. It is also reported that Facebook has got a large number of racists spewing hate about Khan on there also. You will see the P word being used very very often
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Funny how Prince Harry can use the P word and the BBC news presenters can use it when describing the story about Harry but we can't use it on this site.
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JobyJak,
Prince Harry? Dont need to start about him. I remember him photographed in a nightclub wearing a Nazi symbol on his shirt. I dont want to start talking about him as it is a bit off topic.
I do think that Ben Dirs is a bit more lenient on comments because he dosent appear to delete comments as readily as some of the other 606 threads. But using the P word here i am sure will get deleted.
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I do think this racism at Khan is a serious problem and is really getting out of hand. I also remember how Amir and his brother were racially abused all the way out of an arena after Amirs brother had won a match.
The authorities are going to have to make some effort (though i dont know exactly what) to remind people that it is not acceptable.
No longer can this issue be dismissed as paranoia or 'just the odd fellow doing it'.
Maybe something similar to Thierry Henry's Nike campaign. Post up warnings on arenas that any people caught saying racist things will be thrown out and fined.
In football, a club will also be fined if their fans are caught being racist.
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1) It was very unfortunate that the referee and two of the judges were English. On the international boxing forums, most people think that the decision to keep it going until the fifth round, rather than declare it a no contest, was down to blatant home town bias. Warren may think using UK refs and judges helps his fighters but it harms them if they're any good, because it means the boxer gets much less respect overseas than they deserve. I wish someone would convince Warren of this. Over-protecting his fighters might make sense for fighters who have no talent, but it backfires badly in the case of fighters who do have talent.
2) Given that the result was controversial, and most people outside the UK think it should have been declared a no contest, I think Khan should offer Barrera a rematch. Barrera would probably say no, because he seems to be ready to retire, but at least Khan would look much better and gain more respect if he made the offer. And if Barrera took him up on it, Khan would be tested much more over 12 rounds in a rematch than he was over 4, especially as Barrera couldn't see properly for most of the four rounds. Only having the use of one eye means your vision has no depth, so you can't judge distance properly. One could expect a considerably sterner test from Barrera in a rematch, and it would be a good learning fight for Khan. Barrera would need 6 months to recover from that cut, so it would have to be Khan's next but one fight.
3) Having been appallingly over-protected for most of his career in terms of the opponents he has faced, Warren now wants to rush him far too quickly. He's talking about a world title fight this year, in what is one of the deepest and most competitive divisions in boxing. Khan is nowhere near ready for the elite in the division yet. Only two fights ago he was fighting like a complete amateur, and had never been taught the fundamentals of the professional game. His "chinnyness" was mainly due to his lack of fundamentals. And he had never faced any real competition he could learn from.
Roach has done a superb job with him, but he needs time, and some competitive fights against a variety of styles to bed in the lessons he's been learning. His next fight should be against someone who is just below world class, such as David Diaz or Alex Arthur (NOT John Murray, who is a very long way from being world class and has been even more over-protected than Khan has). After that, he should face someone slightly better but still not elite, like Katsidis. Then he should rematch Prescott, who by then he should be able to outbox handily, and it would do his confidence and standing a huge amount of good to beat him before fighting for a world title. Then he should fight an elite contender like Funeka or Juan Diaz. Only then would he be ready for the likes of Marquez. Those fights could all happen by June 2010, so it wouldn't be a huge delay, but the extra experience would make all the difference in the world to his chances of winning, and more importantly retaining, the world title.
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"Crucially, Roach is also succeeding in moulding a more patient, cerebral fighter"...... Ben having watched Khan's interviews over the years I had a chuckle at this line.
I knew Khan would be bigger than Berrera but the height and reach difference was really visible. The cut was very unfortunate and spoiled what may have developed over a longer fight. It looked like Berrera could take Khan's punches and I think his pride and bravery would have carried him through to the latter rounds. It would have been good experience for Khan to have gone the distance.
I think Berrera possibly had the potential to find a punch that could have worried Khan. To be fair Khan did everything asked of him and by beating Berrera he can now claim to be a legitimate challenger.
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Re. Strongback's post, I don't think Khan can claim anything after beating a one-eyed faded fighter who was fighting above his peak weight, other than that he did what he had to do to win this fight.
Khan looked good even before the cut, but it's easy for an athletic fighter to look good for less than a round against a slow pressure fighter. It's much harder to look good for 12 rounds. Ali looked great for the first four rounds in his first fight with Frazier, Frazier barely landed a punch; then Frazier started to catch up with him in round 5 and it became a war of attrition.
I think Khan would have won handily without the cut, and always did (I bet a lot of points on it, which I'm still waiting for people to pay up on!). But it's not a foregone conclusion, and I think to offer MAB a rematch would be the right thing to do. If Barrera says no, it would make Khan look good. If Barrera says yes, it would be likely to be a much sterner test, and a good learning experience for Khan, with Barrera having 12 rounds with the use of two eyes and Khan's stamina under pressure still being untested at this point.
And in any case, Barrera at this stage in his career is not a top Lightweight, so although Khan has greatly improved under Roach, no one should lose perspective and claim that he's ready to face the elite in the division yet.
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intellectualdanny,
"that Kessler bloke from America", "Antonio Jarvier". You are so well named!
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I will be honest ben I dont really like this article and find that a lack of enthusiasm for such a great dominating display has been shown here. The cut wasnt close to his eye and the blood would not have hindered barrera in a way to which people are not giving khan credit. Amir put on a brilliant display of boxing at its perfect best, consisting of hitting the opponent and not getting hit whilst looking extremely sharp whilst doing this. Freddie Roach has worked wonders with this kid so far and we will see plenty more from him. I think Barrera is a very well schooled fighter who is someone you have to beat even when he is past his best. I think if you put him in the ring against a good opponent he will still produce the goods as he is still only 35. Especailly when such "legends" as hopkins are producing dominating displays against much younger opponents. Such as the pavlik fight. Amir has handspeed that is second to nobody and has brilliant boxing skills as was shown right from his amature days when he racked up a total of 100 wins from an exceptional 110 fights. The kid has done precious little wrong throughout his career and one bad decision from his trainer to put him in the ring too early with a brilliant puncher in bredis prescott was not even his fault. The young man is only 22 cut the bloke some slack and watch him become one of the worlds best boxers ever to lace on the gloves. Mark my words.
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A good solid performance by Khan? Yes. Did it tell us anything new? Not really, fighting a guy with one eye should mean you are able to do whatever you want with him pretty much.
I'll say it time and again, but if Khan gets in with the likes of a Nate Campbell, Juan Diaz or Marquez he's gonna be outta there within 3. I'm not too sure he's safe by those guys moving up as i don't think it'll be too long until he himself outgrows the weight - he is huge for a lightweight after all.
You have to get in the ring with the big boys at some point - i don't buy into this whole 'he got into the ring with a puncher too early' nonsense. At the end of the day Prescott was an unknown journeyman pro who Khan should have beat, unless of course you wanna see Frank Warren does what he does best and protect Khan by feeding him feather punchers to build his record up?!
Why not get into the ring with either Juan or David Diaz? That'd shut up the detractors rather than fighting an over the top, one eyed shadow of his former self in Barrera!
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I must be the only person that thinks that fight was a farce from the beginning....
Barrera had to come up 2 weights to fight the 'bolton' fighter. Not one of his punches looked like the 'rattled' the Mexican. Ok the first round he tried to gauge Kahn and was unsettled.
To win after a clash of heads and say you are a 'better' boxer is nonsense.
A win on a technicality is disappointing any way you look at it and proved nothing of Kahn ability as a world champion. He does not deserve a world title fight after fighting nobodies for 4 years. He came up against a decent fighter, Bredis, and got shown up.
Barrera was just a trophy fight and nothing more.
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#16 ferretbadger:
A breath of fresh air. Well said that man. I sometimes wonder if there's anyone left with a modicum of reason on these boards. Thanks for showing me there is.
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Ben, what's the science behind the glass jaw? Are there any fighters who, Khan included, don't go down when they get one on the button landed with enough force to impact on the brain-box? I suggest that boxers who don't have glass jaws are simply those that have the defence that Khan is now learning from Roach, good luck to him.
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minime7471 - Just goes to show how difficult it is for the media to please everyone: some of you are accusing me of going overboard about the win, others reckon I'm not enthusiastic enough. No, the cut wasn't close to his eye, but you must have been watching a different fight to everyone else if you think it didn't hinder him - he had a river of blood pouring into it for four rounds. So no, I don't agree it was a "great dominating display" by Khan, it was a decent display against a bloke who couldn't see properly.
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fight was a farce
barrera was stupid for even taking the fight
how can you fight someone who's taller, got a bigger reach and generally bulkier.
everyone knew this. so why was the fight taken on???
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When is Khan going to fight an active proper LIGHTWEIGHT ?!?!
I am sick and tired of these so called "impressive delays" against blown up feather weights. The last lightweight he fought was Prescott and what happened there.
I give credit a little to Khan as he boxed superbly but MAB was throwing a couple of shots which gave Khan something to think about and it would have been interesting if the fight went on.
I was shocked by how mani Anti-Khan supporters were at the MEN. We were sitting near some asian guys who hate Khan and wanted him knocked out, I thought they'd be his biggest supporters due to their race.
Just goes to prove that Joe Public will not and cannot be fooled by Warren's efforts. So Khan is now the real deal, put him in with a Katsidis or Diaz in the US and see how he gets on. If he beats either of them I'll gladly shut up.
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Right Ben Dirs - where do I start with you. " Bizzare comment" " know more about the dark arts than anyone else on here" ? How dare you make such accusations. I'm not saying I know more about boxing than anybody else on this site - I'm just expressing an opinion. And without getting hoity toity about this I think 26 years fighting and coaching ( 2 national champions) gives me a right to say if I think somebody looks bad. You strike me as somebody who boxes with his pen.
He looked bad to me because if you don't have both feet on the floor then your punches will never have the full power in them. Also " Ben" he wa jumping in and out by about a foot each time he threw a combination and as any coach will tell you you only have to move an inch to avoid a punch so moving that much is a complete waste of energy. So schoolboy errors like this in my opinion are - yes awfull.
Who did you box for Ben? and what gym have you coached ?at or what coaching courses have you been on?? Before you start looking down your pen at me.
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I was shocked by how mani Anti-Khan supporters were at the MEN. We were sitting near some asian guys who hate Khan and wanted him knocked out, I thought they'd be his biggest supporters due to their race.
-------------------------------------------
if im correct, i think these guys are mainly jealous of his success.
thats why they don't support him. if he showed a little more humility, it could go a long way...
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Im still a little sceptical of Amir's win maybe this comes from my disliking of him but i dont know. There could have been a totally different outcome in the fight if that cut coming from the clash of heads didnt occur, we all know that Marco Antonio Barrera has a lot of pride and heart and even said in the post fight interview that he didnt really feel Khans punches and he couldnt see because of the blood dripping down from the unintentionally caused cut on his head. i think he could have went on to hurt khan in the later stages, im not saying he would have definitly won but i feel he could have been a much better test for khan at this stage i just feel Amirs future is still questionable, although you did see a vast improvment in Khan, his defence was solid his hands were lightning quick he looked in great physical condition and didnt make any of those amateurish mistakes that he was mking for so long in the beginning of his career, God bless Freddy Roach eh! lol
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Don't Argue With Me... that's a naive comment.
I actually asked these guys as it's nice to chat to fellow boxing fans who wanted to watch the fight. Unfortunatley we had some drunk Liverpudlians sitting in front of us who spotted Christiano Ronaldo and were more interested in giving him stick that watching the fight!
Anyways... the Asian guys said they hate his arrogance and how he hasn't fought anybody but claims to be World Class. Frank Warren is an excellent match maker no doubts. The one time he didn't pick the opponent Khan got knocked out - FACT!
Jury is out for me on Khan. He has superb speed but I cannot see him being able to contain a Marquez, Diaz (either), Campbell or Katsidis. Khan also gets a lot of favour from UK judges, get him over to the US where the Warren influence isn't as great and that will also highlight his weaknesses.
One last point... strange how if the fight was stopped in Round 4 it would have been a No Contest but then its stopped in Round 5 so Khan wins on points. Was the cut or the bloodflow any different between these rounds?
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"There are plenty of much harder tests out there for Khan, anybody trying to say that last night proves he's reached the peak are merely deluding themselves"
Who said that? I haven't read ANYONE saying he's reqached his peak?, but anyone saying he's not improving is also deluded. The only debate we can realistically have is how much farther can he still improve. No-one knows, but many profess to.
"By the way I read the daily mail and I've just been to the gym this morning traing with two lads that have a british title eliminator and a european title fight respectivley coming up."
This is the most enjoyable comment I've read for a while. Just to continue the theme, I read the economist and books about organic farming and this morning I was fighting two dragons and a warlock, and had roast partridge before work.... if anyone's interested.
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By Uk judges I meant UK referee's... before someone picks up on this.
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rob mate don't worry about the people on here bigging khan up and calling us all racists because we have an opinion. I know it's annoying but at the end of the day it's them that will have to eat the pie of humbleness after the next quater decent boxer khan fights. I wonder if he will ever fight anyone who is a genuine lightweight again..........
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Cheers leonthebarbarian. Khan isn't cr*p, he has terrific handspeed but how Frank Warren can keep conning the public I don't know. I detest these fighters sho just pad their record. Yes the first 5-10 fights may be fodder and him learning the game but why doesn't he do what any normal fighter does. Go for the UK title, then Commonwealth, then European and then Worlds.
The influence of Warren and he overtakes a lot of decent fighters who don't have the hype and he also gets to manipulate the ratings game. I bet the WBO have him in their top 3 now (joke organisation).
I wouldn't be surprised if Amir fights Alex Arthur now and bill it as a fight against an ex World Champion.
I honestly was surprised by how loud the cheers were for MAB and how many boos Khan got. Also had to laugh at how Degale was booed and sat in his seat all moody.
Like Adam Booth (David haye's trainer) said a while back to other young fighters. Take risks, there is no point in fighting nobodies and getting wins. I have more respect for fighters who fight people where there is a chance they could lose.
Khan may become a world champ but he needs to fight some decent contenders. Fight Katsidis, a mega puncher he is. Would love to see how Khan gets on against him.
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Ben, i felt Kahn won the first round. I was at the m.e.n that night and said after the first round what would happen - the fight would be called off, but not until the 5th. It was a disgraceful decision. The 4 rounds after it shouldn't have counted. After the fight i didn't hear anyone booing Kahn. Kahn needs a lesson in humility- he beat a one- eyed legend and showed no class whatsoever in his post match interview
Afolabi did get booed on the way to the ring, and during the fight itself. But, in victory, he got alot of respect from the crowd after the win.
Bottom line - Kahn/Barrera should have been declared a no contest when it was clear in the second Barrera couldn't see.
I don't see how anyone can argue with that (unless it hould have been stopped before the 2nd started)
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leonthebarbarian - If you've had 26 years of fighting and then coaching, then surely you should know better than going round saying Khan was "awful" when he clearly wasn't. If you had pointed out his technical deficiences in a more measured way then we wouldn't be having this argument, but the fact was he did what he had to do against an old legend who couldn't see that well, and looked decent enough in doing it. You then suggest in a subsequent comment that Khan should be fighting for world honours because "Evander Holyfield fought for the title in his 13th fight". So what? Leonard fought for a world title in his 26th fight, Hearns in his 29th, Hamed in his 20th.
Oh, and here we go, a "show me your medals" tirade. No, I have never fought, apart from a bit of sparring down my local gym, but neither did Harry Carpenter, and John Arlott never played cricket, and Martin Samuel never played football, and Jim McGrath wasn't a jockey... it's my job to tell the story of certain events, and it would have been disingenous, as well as unfair, to suggest that Khan was, as you suggest, "awful" against Barrera on Saturday night.
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I'm sorry but the win was definitely soured by the the manner of victory for me. It was clear for all to see that Khan was too much for Barrera from the word go (although there was always the risk Khan's chin might falter if Barrera did manage to land). So why, then, do they need to pull the wool over our eyes by waiting until the 5th round to stop the fight to enable Khan to get his points victory. Even if it had been ruled a no-contest, any decent fight fan would have applauded Khan for his performance, now they have a right to feel cheated.
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#43 daveymate: "I boxed for years and I can say with confidence that this win should be nullified and a rematch should take place. As Barrera said, Khan didn't hurt him and his face shows it. Very dodgy indeed."
Hmm. funny that 'cos I boxed for years too and I see it differently.
I suppose it only goes to show that boxing for years doesn't preclude us from having differences of opinion. It makes me laugh when people site their boxing experience as if to suggest "I boxed, therefore I'm a boxing expert". If that were the case we'd only need to listen to the pundits to get our opinions, Barry McGuigan could tell us all we need to know, but as we are all aware, the man doesn't always get it right.
People see things in different lights whether they've boxed or not. I played cricket too, and rugby, and swam competitively, and I ride a bike and do some rock climbing. Strangely I'm not a world authority on any of the above... though I do have reasonably valid opinions on all of them.
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oh dear ben ruffled feathers eh. Ah well never mind eh mate.
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"Ben, what's the science behind the glass jaw? Are there any fighters who, Khan included, don't go down when they get one on the button landed with enough force to impact on the brain-box? I suggest that boxers who don't have glass jaws are simply those that have the defence that Khan is now learning from Roach, good luck to him."
A rare bit of common sense. deserves to be repeated.
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"91. At 10:13am on 16 Mar 2009, leonthebarbarian wrote:
oh dear ben ruffled feathers eh. Ah well never mind eh mate."
Funny. It looked a lot like yours were the feathers that were ruffled at 9:32... ;)
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"Don't be dazzled by his hand speed the quality of his shots and his balance are poor. I lost count of the amount of times his back foot was of the floor when he threw his back hand."
From my first post so I did point out these defeiciencies in a technical way. The difference between you and Harry mate is a world of knowledge. I think Khan looked awfull but because you don't you think I should just bow to your opinion and not say it?
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Guess so.
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" I suggest that boxers who don't have glass jaws are simply those that have the defence that Khan is now learning from Roach, good luck to him."
fjsm Did you ever watch wayne mculloch or george chuvalo?
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fjsm33 - I think that's a good point you make. Some former sportspeople make very good journalists and pundits (Mike Atherton, Nasser Hussain), others don't (I remember the entire MOTD panel during the 2006 World Cup basically laughing at Sven for picking Owen Hargreaves - a man who held down a place in the Bayern Munich midfield - and, funnily enough, he was easily our best player in the tournament). I also remember, as an example, speaking to Richie Woodhall before the Hatton-Mayweather fight and him being convinced that Hatton would win, and Duke Mckenzie after the Calzaghe-Hopkins fight thinking that Calzaghe had lost by three or four rounds. People see things in different ways, and just because you have boxed before, or played football, or whatever, doesn't necessarily mean your opinions are more valid, although I agree that in some cases they should be afforded more respect.
Boxing is funny in that it is perhaps the only sport where people will say, "I boxed, so therefore I know more than you do...", whereas you would never hear a club cricketer or Sunday league footballer claiming they know more than you on the back of a few scratchy knocks of 30 or a couple of scuffed goals a season.
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"oh dear ben ruffled feathers eh. Ah well never mind eh mate" - Don't make me laugh leon, you'll be telling me Man Utd are awful next on the back of that result on Saturday! Although I agree on one thing, George Chuvalo could take a punch...
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I think this was a fair blog to be honest, it echoed the sentiments of most I have spoke to, in that the fight showed what Khan had been working on with Roach, but in the end didnt prove a thing because of the nature of the fight.
Minime, you cant be serious, look back at the fight and you'll see MAB constanly blinking out his left. Put yourself in an orthodox stance then close your left eye, its near impossible to defend yourself due to lack of vision.
Also, not mentioned except by a few was that MAB, near bling out of his left eye still landed a good left on Khan, I'm certain Kahn's legs went and he held on, he was lucky it was in the dying seconds, and of course the one eyed sky team never mentioned it. Can anyone seriously say that Diaz, JMM, Campbell, fatty Guzman or even Casamayor wont land a punch of note against Khan, because sadly (and its in no way Khans fault) thats all it will take.
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My mate was a centre half for Everton and the other lads have played for preston ,flynt and some obscure team in Aregentina, and they always talk down to me when it comes to football Ben! So I don't think its ringposted to boxing mate. Saying that I don't think that I'm more qualified than anybody else to comment on this. I havn't knocked your opinion mate so all I'm asking is that you don't ridicule mine by calling it bizzare.
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p.s I don't think it's as bizzare as people calling other people racist for not thinking Khan is the best or knocking him. In fairness I complained about this and recieved an email telling me that it doesn't break house rules. I think it should - it breaks any other rule of morality and fairness. What would happen if I said that I thought the other colours where being racist towards whites on this site.
Please note that I am not revealing my ethnicity.
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"fjsm Did you ever watch wayne mculloch or george chuvalo"
Yes thanks.
I'm not suggesting that everyone is built from the same mould, plainly some people have more granite in their chins than others, however, there's a vast preponderance of the anti-Khan brigade who are happy to trot out an overly simplistic line "he'll never amount to anything because he's got a weak chin". This is just weak minded drivel. By knowing his own weaknesses he can to a greater or lesser extent learn techniques to mitigate them. As I mentioned in Ben's previous blog, many world class boxers with tough chins have, when hit right, been sparked. There have in boxing history also been some people with an extraordinary ability to take a punch, but just because chuvalo could, doesn't mean Khan can't. or won't.
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fjsm - where do i claim to be a world authority? Also if you think that the only differnece between chins is defence then I have to strongly disagree. But what I will say is that swimming is one hard sport. It always got me - even when I was at my fittest!
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"I suggest that boxers who don't have glass jaws are simply those that have the defence that Khan is now learning from Roach" - then -"I'm not suggesting that everyone is built from the same mould, plainly some people have more granite in their chins " are you partial to the pipe mate?
And I don't believe that it's because of his chin that khan won't go anywhere - if you look back at my posts I never critisised his chin.
What does preponderance mean?
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Ben you have just beat me to the point I was going to make. I was going to dredge up the ECB for picking unknown journeyman Darren Pattinson to play against South Africa last summer. Now everyone involved in that decision has a country mile more cricket experience than me, however I personally would have looked elsewhere given the choice. Does that make my opinion less valid than theres? I think not.
It is classic British mentality to hate the confident achieving sportsman. Now I am not saying that Khan is a proven World Class boxer, but if we were to look at another cricket example, for which I apologise, Kevin Pietersen still has split the nation. And this is a man who has proven he is pretty much the best in the World at what he does. However people have an intense dislike for him as he comes across as arrogant and overconfident. Even if Khan was to win against World Class opponents, he would still have his haters.
In regards to the fight, unfortuantly like an episode of Lost, it has left us with more questions than answers. All we can say about Khan is that he beat what was put in front of him, it was a much more reserved and professional display by him, and he did not immeadatly go in for the kill against an opponent who was clearly suffering from lack of vision. Would he be able to last 12 rounds against a fully functioning MAB? We will probably never find out.
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Where did you box at fjsm? Just out of interest?
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I was at the MEN on sat and I'll happily admit to booing Khan. Absolutely nothing to do with racism and everything to do with my dislike for Khans\Warrens arrogance. Khan is overhyped and he has fallen in to the trap of believing it. KO'd by Prescott, beating a bum in Fagin and then what should have been a no-contest against Barrera does not put you in line for a world title shot in my opinion.
To me Khan looked fast, thats never been in doubt, but I didn't feel he was hurting Barrera. he was pushing him back but that should be expected given his natural size advantage. In the end this fight did nothing to answer any of the questions people have about Khan.
Learn some humility and fight some decent fighters. Thats how the boos will stop.
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John Murray would be a good test.
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when a fighter talks about himself in the 3rd person, that is a sure sign of arrogancy
step up amir khan..
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Also to be fair I think Khan has shown some humility and as for arrogance I've seen worse. I just don't understand the hype. Olympics and amateur creds sometimes don't count in the pro game - just look at Jorge luiz Gonzalez!
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And also talking about who's more qualified to talk about this and that do an internet search for Carl Froch and Mark Hudson!
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Yeah I dont think he's the worst I've seen for arrogance. But it's arrogance with no record to back it up. Frank Warren creates the hype but he's a bit foolish to believe it
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""I suggest that boxers who don't have glass jaws are simply those that have the defence that Khan is now learning from Roach" - then -"I'm not suggesting that everyone is built from the same mould, plainly some people have more granite in their chins " are you partial to the pipe mate?"
Not at all. The first part of the quote was me quoting someone else. I happen to agree to a large extent, notwithstanding the obvious fact that we're all different. Whether you like it or not, everyone is susceptible to being knocked out, Some learn better defence, some can take more. To merely label someone as "chinny" though is a simplistic way of writing off someones ability and doesn't tell half the story. This, if you read my posts, has been my consistent stance.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/preponderance
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106. At 11:10am on 16 Mar 2009, leonthebarbarian wrote:
Where did you box at fjsm? Just out of interest?
Onslow Lions in Guildford, (later named Guidford City), and for the last few years I was boxing at Stirling ABC after moving north of the border.
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And if you read mine I've never mentioned Khans chin....?
Although i will go on record now as saying his punch resistance is poor.
It's more his lack of ability that I'm talking about and I'm not alone in this opinion. It's not all his fault though i believe that he can only beat who his promoters get him to fight. He's not learning anything from these kind of fights. I think that maybe Prescott again would be a better test of how much he has come of age?
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One of those definitions of preponderance is mass and bulk. Interesting that because khan looks less bulky these days which I think is a good move for him.
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They are good gyms fjsm. I boxed at Higherside abc and Huyton abc and still attend both.
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I'd love to see him fight Prescott again and I think he'd get a lot more respect for that. Providing he won of course.
I doubt its going to happen anytime soon though, too much of a risk for Frank Warren whose stable is certainly dwindling
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Prescott hasn't done much since so I think a rematch would be nice like. Maybe for a world title eliminator.
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Right I'm going to walk the dog. Be back in a minute.
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"And if you read mine I've never mentioned Khans chin....?"
Fair enough, but I wasn't directly addressing you originally...
Guildford City is a great gym, turns out some very good boxers (not claiming to be one of them though!!!) and I miss it a lot now I live in Scotland.
Stirling sadly suffers from lack of funding and the recent closure of the community building where it's been for over 35 years for "development". It's still running, having relocated, but in much reduced circumstances.
I was the club secretary there but have drifted away over the last 12 months, I still put myself through a boxing training regime but not affiliated to any gym, my last sparring session was last march - pretty much exactly a year ago... but I'm not getting any younger and a long day up through the trossachs on the bike will do for keeping me in shape now :)
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Not heard anything of him since the Khan fight, maybe that shows a clever promoter can get you further than ability. Title eliminator makes some sense and strangely Warren might find that fight easier to sell.
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Having said that about Stirling, it has a disproportionate level of success, 2 boys there have boxed on the national team in the last year, out of only about 10-12 regular attendees
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fjsm33, I know what your saying, but Khan's chin is very relevant when talking about up and coming matches. It can define who wins a fight, would Hagler have beaten Hearns in 2 had Hagler not had the superiour chin. Could Benn have stopped Eubank in their first fight had Eubank not been blessed with an iron jaw? Khan is desperatly unlucky to be in this situation because he is ahrd worker belssed with great speed, but every time he fights his chin will be a topic, and rightly so.
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yeah Higherside punches above it's weight. Theres a lad called John Watson from there and when he one his aba title (Richie Woodhall called him boxer of the night) the bbc did a little thing about his opponent from repton and how things were tough. Well actually we didnt even have a gym at that point because it had burnt down so he was training in the foyer!! Have you applied for all the grants? Saying that boxing is always back of the que when it comes to funding as it's not one of the poular sports. We have a big youth club near us and the loacl councillor said he would die before giving it to us!
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FSJ, it's crazy really isnt it that you suffer from a lack of funding becasue i think its one of the games were the kids learn so much apart from boxing skills about life and behaviour yet you don't get much help. Have you tried to register as a charity?
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leon - Did the local councillor really say that?! What's his beef with boxing?!
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Well actually we shopuld leave that alone because he is dead now and theres already a row going on over some facebook comments and I don't mind having a banter with you guys but I don't want to have unmarked helicopters cicling me house! (but yes he did of the record of course)
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sorry should and circling. I hate this keypad!
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I think the problem is Ben that it will always be labelled as a violent sport and hence the lack of funding. My gripe is that if they put the money into something else but around here there is preciuos little for the young to do.
For instance i worked at a leisure centre and we had new astro turfs built and part of the agreement was that there should be so many hours a week that were left free for the kids. It lasted about a month before the lights were turned of if it wasnt paying customers.
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Right lads thats me off - the trouble and strife wants me to go to the supermarket with her :c. Thanks for the banter sorry if I sounded a bit uppity at any point - I'm a middle aged man with neither the desire drive or talent to fulfill any of my dreams! Apart from on fifa 09 xbox.
Take care lads Godd bless.
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God. This keypad..................
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what do you people think of enzo makinellys decline lol i know i cant spell his name
he has said he has done no sparring
enzo calzaghe said he done as much sparring as before
frank warren said, he doesnt know why he got into the ring
what is goin on...
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I never thought Enzo was top class but a decent fighter. To me he looks like a man with no confidence after Haye demolished him. If he didnt train properly that suggests his heart isn't in it anymore. Who knows. Its a long way back for him now whatever the excuse is
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It's hard to understand what the English have against Kahn, I'm Irish and have to say I quite like Kahn himself, he seems a down to earth guy who unfortunately is beginning to listen to the hype some circles of the media have created around him, plus like the majority of people on this blog are saying Warren is doing him no favours. Freddy Roach is top class and Kahn is a better fighter because of him, but now Warren is talking world title??? For me this is outrageous, Kahn could easily have 3-4 more fights before a world title shot... If he does get one he's lucky that Marquez should be vacating the belts cause Marquez could do some serious damage to Kahn, a devastating defeat at world level could be enough to stop Kahn ever going for it again.... Patience and then we will see if he’s up to it or not...
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Thanks for the reply ben, I do appreciate your opinion greatly and I used to box for years when im younger and think it has no use in predicting fights and doesnt make my opinion any more useful. I just think what we saw from khan was different to what we have ever seen before from him which was his defence. We all know he has the speed and power to take a lot of good fighters out but we all knew he fought with his hands under his chin and walked into shots which is a very niave. For me it is very exciting to see him box someone that he has a fear of being caught and wanted to beat them with his skills rather than raw speed and power. I still think that the blood wasnt the biggest issue and was a bit of an excuse but I dont want to get into that, I believe that had it gone 12 rounds with 2 eyes he would have been an annialation. And for the racists out there it makes me sick, wishing people too lose is disgusting and being a racist towards amir is soo wrong.
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as i said earlier i was at the MEN and saw the fights - Enzo looked to be doing all right apart from 1 round. There was a lot of holding in the fight. It was a shocking punch and not too many cruiserweights could have taken that punch. i was told after the fight Afolabi was facing the ground when he threw the punch and probably didn't know were it was heading. if that was the case (and i'm sure a few people here saw it on sky and had the benefits of muliple angles and slowmo) i think Enzo was unbelievably unlucky. Anyone check for definate?
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I thought Enzo was doing all right, I missed the first couple of rounds (my turn for the bar) but I didn't think he was outclassed. Afolabi looked like he had a bit of class though and unfortunately at the higher weights one punch, lucky or not, can easily finish you off
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Well after all the build up, all the excitement, all the criticism and all the debates, we are still no further forward in our quest to get an idea of how Amir Khan's carrer is going. The fight on Saturday did nothing to help or hinder Amir Khan, basically i thought the fight did NOTHING. As you said Ben, he beat an aging featherweight who couldn't see out of his left eye. The main debate on these boards before the fight was whether Amir could take a half decent punch and this fight served up nothing to either confirm it or prove the idea wrong. I thought Khan looked good in what he did, his guard was a lot higher and was almost constant, he took less risks and seemed to box a bit cleverer although it was made much easier considering MAB only had the use of 1 eye. A lot of people have said it too but i also thought it was strange the ref decided to stop it in round 5 even though the cut was no worse and the amount of blood flowing was no different. What was so bad about it that needed the fight to be stopped in the 5th compared to how it was in the 2nd??
I am disappointed in how it turned out cos i have said for a while i don't think Khan can take a punch and i was hoping we would get some evidence on Saturday to prove me wrong or right but we didn't get it.
As for the people who buy a ticket for the fight just to see Khan lose or to give out racist abuse. People like this really need to find something else to keep their pathetic little minds occupied.
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James_Toneys_gut : "fjsm33, I know what your saying, but Khan's chin is very relevant when talking about up and coming matches"
Agreed, a subject for duscussion maybe, but a reason to write off his chances? Much has been made of Khan's chin being a virtually insurmountable obstacle to his career. Personally I don't believe it has to be.
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I think it is a MASSIVE obstacle for him. Working with Roach will definitely tighten his defence up and even on Saturday we saw evidence that he has tried to get on top of it already and has definitely helped him on already. The reason i see it as such an obstacle though is in all my years of watching boxing, i am yet to see a fighter who doesn't get hit cleanly from time to time. So far in Khan's short career, every time he has been hit with a clean shot, he has went over. So.... if/when he challenges for world titles i think it is safe to say that even if he sleeps every night with Freddie Roach, no matter how much time he spends with him, he is gonna get caught by a few good shots and from the evidence we have seen 4 times already in his career against virtual nobodies, he can't take it. It is a natural reaction for him to go down and not something you can school out of him.
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scottydog09:
I agree, it would have been better to have seen a classic encounter, but you can't knock the guy, he beat who was infront of him, and there wasn't much more he could do. It was pretty predictable that, after everyone saying it was going to be a real test for Khan, when he wins the good old British public decide that MAB was actually past it.
Unfortunately classic encounters cannot be preordered. This one wasn't, the manner of victory wasn't 100% satisfactory, but he did what he had to do, and there's not a great deal you can justifiably criticise him for about the fight.
Yes MAB is 35, but many boxers go on too long, it's hardly Khan's fault. How can the talk have changed from "Warren's/Khan's big gamble" just before the fight to "MAB was spent anyway"?
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khan was quick, in and out- i agree some of the punches lacked power but training with freddie he has picked up some good things.
1) raising hands whilebouncing on the toes (pacquiao-esq) shuts the ooohs and aahs from the crows, commentators and shows your'e not hurt. (however, if khan gets hit with a big left hook (e.g prescott, diaz - what appens then?)
2) gameplan - freddie said it was follow MAB for 2minutes of every round and back off with lateral movement for the other minute(genrally well done but still room for improvement in terms of elusivity)
However, the racist peeps always gunna be there - but i believe its more to do with the khan's same statement 'im gunna be a world champ' by 2007...then by june 08 then 2009 **yet frank warren matching him poorly.
Since the sky ppv deal signed, the quality of opposition has inproved, and there will be a world tittle fight this year....maybe.
As a Khan fan , I Wish him well - but he needs to stay focused in LA , and avoid the TV appearances, and he will do fine.
Oh, and MAB is a warrior for taking khan's work - but would have been beaten with or without the cunch but meant we could not see more of his offence. Overall, a good performance - but as with all fights (except prime RJJ,ALI,SRR,SRL) room for improvement - look over the fight in purely analysis mode, and you will see them
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I think more of the talk has been about how the fight did nothing to answer any of the questions about Khan. Hard to judge if Barrera is spent as the cut ended the fight as a real contest. You could argue till the cows come home about who would have won without the cut but the truth is we'll never know. The point is that Khan still needs to prove himself and until he does there will be a lot of doubters
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"It was a shocking punch and not too many cruiserweights could have taken that punch. "
But, had he been better prepared, tighter and less careless he wouldn't have taken that punch. This was a prime example of the point I've been trying to make since Friday. Enzo wasn't knocked out cos he has a glass chin, he was knocked out because he gave the other guy the opportunity to land a classic knockout punch. not all boxers will give an opponent that kind of chance. it's just possible that Khan too is working out how to avoid it.
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"not too many cruiserweights could have taken that punch"
maybe not but the puch that Prescott put him on his backside the first time wasn't a classic knockout punch. I think there are a lot of lightweights who would have taken that punch.
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fjsm33:
I'm not trying to knock Amir Khan although i can see how it looks that way. You're right in what you're saying about he could only beat what was in front of him, i have always been a big believer in that saying. However, before the fight i said that i thought it all depended on how much MAB had left in the tank. If he had a lot, it would have made for a great fight, if he had lost a bit of his sparkle, which i thought he had, then it wouldn't really prove anything. If they had both went in there and had a tearup and Khan came out victorious, it would have been a lot more helpful for his career and his profile. I'm not daft enough to think this was all Khan's fault though and before the fight there was always the doubt that MAB could beat him so i do think he deserves credit for taking the fight so soon after being badly knocked out. As i have said before, unlike a lot of people on here, i actually like Khan as a person, he seems like a sound lad and he really does want to do well and he also has a lot of heart. I just fear that his suspect chim will cost him as his career approches the elite level. I hope i'm wrong though.
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"maybe not but the puch that Prescott put him on his backside the first time wasn't a classic knockout punch. I think there are a lot of lightweights who would have taken that punch."
I don't agree with that. The punch that Prescott hit him with would have knocked an elephant out. It was a massive haymaker.
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Maybe a small horse but not an elephant haha. I thought he finished him well, just didn't think the first was a classic knock out punch. It wasn't my chin on the end of the punch though which I guess is the only way of knowing for sure.
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Yeah i suppose you're right, i thought it looked like a clean, BIG hook right to the side of the jaw. Maybe an elephant was an exaggeration but it would have laid out a shetland pony no problem what so ever!!! ha ha......
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leonthebarbarian wrote:
"It's not all his fault though i believe that he can only beat who his promoters get him to fight. He's not learning anything from these kind of fights."
I agree with you on this, for a boxer with 20 plus pro fights Khan doesn't look very seasoned. It looks like he needs to take on a couple of good durable fighters who could take him through 12 rounds. Berrera fitted the bill perfectly and vitally the size difference meant Berrera would find it difficult to knock Khan out. Khan could do with a few tough fights to knock him into shape. There is no point in putting him in with a classy fighter who can punch - he'd be killed. I think Berrera was the right challenge at this stage but the cut ruined things.
To Dave_Rado
In my post #68 I said "To be fair Khan did everything asked of him and by beating Berrera he can now claim to be a legitimate challenger."
I am not saying Khan is bona fide world champion material I am just saying he will now be considered as a contender for a world title. In saying this I agree with everyone here who has written that Khan in his current state wouldn't beat any of the current world champions.
I hear what people are saying about Khan's arrogance but I never really took it too seriously. I don't think he has ever delivered the I am the greatest waffle with any real confidence or conviction. Footballers brains can be in their feet, I think Khans brains are in his fists......by the way this goes for cricketers, rugby and golf players etc too. I think his management team need to help him to communicated with the public. At the moment their is nothing to latch onto about Khan. As a comparison look at the popular sucess Ricky Hatton has.....before anyoe says it I am aware that Ricky is the No.1 light wealterweight on the plantet.
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I feel a bit sorry for Khan when people talk about his arrogance. I don't really think he is that arrogant. Yes he has confidence in himself and believes he can go all the way but tell me any boxer in the world who, in the early stages of his career would say " well yeah, im alright i suppose but i reckon i'm a bit chinny and i'll defo get knocked out if i ever get to face the world champions"?? There's nothing wrong with having confidence and every fighter needs to be confident in himself, i wouldn't really say he is being arrogant. I watched a TV programme about 2 years ago where Khan was running this daft scheme where he tried to teac wayward kids about boxing in the hope it would help them turn their lives around. In the programme he came across as a sound, sensible lad, who despite his wealth and fame was still very approachable and trying to remain grounded and ever since watching it, i have been a fan of him as a person so i don't think he deserves to be booed. In fact, i don't think any fighter deserves it to be honest. I don't know why someone would pay for a ticket to a big fight so they could boo a British fighter?????
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I agree with strongback I think Khan did well against MAB, He could only beat what was in front of him. I think his team around him were aware that MAB did not possess the knock out punch of a prescott and with age against MAB they felt comfortable putting Khan in there.
But Khan will always have doubts against him until he gets back in the ring with Prescott end of story and I do not think his team will ever put him back in there with Prescott.
Khan may go on to rule the lighweight division but this will only be because the best lightweights are moving up a division.
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British fan seems to be very racist because, Cook was floored and was Macca but they are not complaining about them. Khan has improved despite being weak initially. But because he is not white, they are booing him. This is getting established as the real introduction of British. I was in USA recently and people were saying how non-white people were coping in britain cuz the society is very recist deep down. Very true indeed!!!
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Well done Khan.
Cut did not help, but was still a good performance
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fjsm33...you are right boxing for however long doesn't make you an expert. It does educate you though a lot more than someone watching from the couch. My point was on the headbutt issue and I wish more people would take it up on this blog. I came to close quarters many times, talked to my mates, and you avoid a clash of heads if you see it coming, ,unless you want an advantage. Also, as I made clear Barrera had little wear and tear except outside his shoulder and bicep. I had a fight when I was an amateur with a guy who was a weight class over me, cause at the time the opposing club didn't have anyone to fight at my weight, and he just pummeled my arms and got a stoppage. I saw a similar tactic in last weekend's fight. A headbutt taken, a barrage of punches when Barrera couldn't see, and a stoppage. The fight showed me nothing. I'm thoroughly disappointed. I hope someone else got it on their comp and can discuss the points I made about the butt and then about the look of the fighters after.
But I do agree with you fjsm33, I am not an expert and competing doesn't make us so, but it does impart some things.
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two points about the khan barrera fight. 1) anybody who thinks that it proved amir khan to be a world class fighter is deluded as outside of the fact that he had improved hand speed and a better defence we all know (at least those who have any common sense) that these attributes were not really in question, and as the fight was stopped amazingly in the 5th due to his opponent being one eyed throughout the fight its clear that his punch reistance did NOT get teated as i belive it would have if the fighter had been allowed to continue.
2) the pathetic accusations that anybody who is critical of the farce that is the warren/ Khan partnership being branded a racist is both infuriating and fustrating and is nothing but outright ignorance. And yes i am a U.K asian boxing fan
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themagicboxingfish,
Using P word in the boxing venue while booing is outright racist. If that is not racist, then may be your definition of racism is different. May be you were not in the MEN arena but I was at the night and it was sad. It is even worse for you to defend this here. Check out the comments in you tube and you will find these racist psychos there if you do not believe me.
I have no problem you trying to be a boxing expert and commentator.
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Daveymate following on from your point above and Ben Dirs comment #97 I think that being good at sport does not always translate to being good at journalism, coaching or management. I don't remember Pele or Maradona becoming the greatest football managers. The skills needed are different.
One thing remains constant and that is consistantly doing something every day will make anyone learn. As we know when Glen Hoddle was England manager he practiced free kicks with David Beckham only to tell Beckham he did not have the skill to execute a certian type of free kick, from memory it was a free chipped up that Bekham was asked to volley. This is an example of a great player having no understanding of how difficult it is for a player to be as good as they were.
The best coaches and managers spent their life in a sport and had to work hard at their skills to reach a mediocre level. They know what it takes. In my opinion a journalist will never know about the intricacies behind professional sport unless they have been a pro. I know an ex pro footballer who had a great professional career as a manager and he can't listen to sports journalism on the TV, he just finds it irratating. I think Cloughie had the same view.
I've been studying and working at my job for the past 20 years and I know that few understand it better than me. Weather I can communicate my knowledge is a different thing.
By the way the boxing blogs are great and Ben Dirs is very good at his job.
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khanalb
I hate to state the obvious but your interpretation of the statement i made regarding everybody who is critical of khan being branded a racist is totally out of context and unfair. And the reason why is simple, anybody with any common sense knows there is a world of difference between being an outright racist i.e using the P word (which is also just offensive to me being a British Asian) and that of being critical in a balanced and non offensive way while being objective and having at least a degree of justification for your comments when assesing a fighters performance. Yes their are racists who take pot shots at Khan and they are people i ignore i also ignore the people (and i have come across this numerous times on websites and forums) accusing white British people of being loyal to Amir when hes winning as well as being racist to non asians who make objective and balanced critisism of Khan/Warren. So the bottom line is that it goes both ways. I personally judge indivdual comments based on its merits and justification. Finally im not trying to be a boxing expert or commentator im simply expressing my opinion in the same way as everybody else here.
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Khan arrogant? He is not really that arrogant. It is a ridiculous claim to cite as a reason for disliking Khan. And boxers are not supposed to sound too humble. Thats not how they sell fights.
Khan was supposed to have weak chin. Yet he took a vicious collision of heads (head harder than a padded glove), took two solid punches to the head and lots of elbows and he didnt go to ground.
And you can bet that these knocks were harder than Limonds punches.
This means to me that he has developed punch resistance to some extent. And he is training hard with p4p King Pacquiao.
Some say you cant develop resistance which is also rubbish. In some martial arts the golden rule to absorb opponents power is to have balance in the body (ability to disperse the absorbed energy) and breathe outwards forcefully as you get hit. This was a fundamental i learnt in Karate, Kung Fu and Tai Chi.
Remember Tommy Hearns was famous for his weak chin and that didnt stop him reaching great heights
As for leonthebarbarians claim that only people doing a sport can comment on it is wrong. There are many sports with experts who have never participated in it. Infact i remember some world famous boxing trainer who had never fought. And leons comments about foot balance? Well.....i have to assume that Freddie Roach knows what he is doing.
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The bottom line is that Khan has showed ALOT of improvement. If you disagree than Manny Pacquiao, Freddie Roach, Some American people who watched Khan sparring with Pacman are all liars.
People who have watched Khan carefully have described his hand speed as 'phenomenal' 'blinding' 'lightning' 'fastest hands of any pro in decades'
Don King even described his movement as reminiscent of a 'young Sugar Ray Robinson'.
Ofcourse King is a promoter and we can say promoters will say anything.
But also remember that the legendary Roberto Duran lost multiple times at the beginning of his career before he showed remarkable improvement and went on a roll.
Pacquiao was described as having some major flaws in his technique and after he worked hard it with Roach he has become a world beater.
There are other fighters who have been very poor at the beginning of their pro careers only to go and and become future champions.
There is no guarantee that Khan will become a world beater BUT to dismiss him out of hand is just bordering on insane.
So many people said Barrera would toy around with Khan from the ring of the first bell. And it was the reverse that happened. And Khans chin was tested more than once in that fight (head clash, two solid punches to the head, elbows and forearms).
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Good article Ben I personally think its pretty much on the button. However I do lean mostly towards the 'the kid done good... against a one eyed vet'. It was great to see Khan box with a brain and the improvement is vast. He is very quick and strong and has proved he does have a good heart in the ring. I personally believe that the loss to prescot did him the world of good.
People booing I think are split by rascist idiots and people that dont like to see arrogance of someone just starting. I think a slightly more humble approach can do wonders to peoples images in this country, which is of course the opposite to the USA. Maybe Amir would have done better to not celebrate like he just won a belt, and straight away offer Barrera a rematch and play down his win.
One thing Ben, or indeed others on the blog, while I think Amir did a great job and is showing much better skills, the only thing that I could see being a bit of a problem is that he was slightly 2 dimensional.. mostly forward and back rather than much side stepping and going round. Just my thoughts, I'd like to see if you and others agree.
I'm not a boxer of course and only ever had fun with a head guard on, but those saying that the cut on Barrera was nothing to complain about and detract from Khans win, seriously i disagree. It was gushing into his eye, would have been made worse by the gloves rubbing more blood into his face and eye. You need TWO eyes to target correctly to hit something, let alone see incoming.
What next for khan then? Not a fan at all of Frank Warren, but I can honestly see most of Khans legacy in Warrens hands not Amirs... sadly
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I don't think you can judge if Khan showed A LOT of improvement due to the lack of the challenge posed by Barerra. fair enough he did look sharp, his handspeed was excellent and his punches were accurate but it was all made MUCH easier by the early cut. It's impossible to say if he has improved as Barerra had so little fight in him. As for the chim debate that is still unsolved too, he didn't take a clean shot to the face in the whole fight so we still don't know. The clash of heads cannot prove his chin has improved at all, a clash of heads is totally different to being on the end of a haymaker. The head is hard therefore can cut open much easier and with much less force behind it than being punched with a glove on. However, a full force right hook straight to the side of the jaw will twist your entire head round because you can get so much power behind it. when he receives a punch like that we will get a better assessmant compared to when he bumped heads.
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Amir Khan is not the only Brit to be booed at boxing matches in recent times. Wayne Elcock (a Birmingham lad) was booed by a section of the Birmingham crowd on Saturday and this follows on from James Degale being given a rough ride by the again Brummie crowd on his debut. I am from Birmingham and know a few of these so-called boxing fans and believe me when I say that they are nothing more than racist thugs. This is a problem that will become more prevalent in sport and boxing in particular over the coming year. It needs to be eradicated.
Khan fought well but let's not get over excited as MAB is not the warrior he once was and was fighting one eyed. He will be a world champ before the year is out but he has no chin!
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khanalb - I was at the MEN and I booed Khan. That doesn't make me a racist. I didnt hear the p-word, although I'm sure some people dont like him because of the colour of his skin, its not the only reason people don't like him. I also booed Nicky Cook for wearing a Man Utd top in to the ring when he's from Essex
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Why Won't Anyone Admit Barrera Was Robbed?
Here is the indisputable fact of the Amir Khan/Marco Antonio Barrera travesty that took place in Manchester this past Saturday night -- Barrera was robbed. The whole thing was an absolute joke and the referee and doctor on the scene should be ashamed of themselves, as should Khan and his handlers for carrying on as if this was a remarkable victory instead of a complete miscarriage of justice.
In the first round, a colossal and completely accidental clashing of heads opened a cut on Barrera’s forehead around his hairline. It was a long and deep gash that sent sheets of blood pouring down into Barrera’s left eye.
Given the severity of the wound, here is what should have happened: The referee should have immediately interrupted the action and had the cut inspected by the ringside doctor, at which point the doctor either would have stopped the fight right then and there, or given Barrera, at his volition, one more round to see if his corner could stop the massive bleeding that was so dramatically impairing his vision. Because the cut was much too bad to be stopped his corner, the fight then unquestionably would have been stopped during the second round when it became clear that the flow of blood was going to continue unabated and make fighting impossible for Barrera. In that the cut was caused by an accidental clash of heads, the bout would have been ruled a no-contest. Which would have been a massive drag, but it happens in there, and it’s the only fair thing to do, because no one deserves to lose a fight that way.
So, that’s the way it should have gone. Here’s the way it did go: The referee didn’t refer Barrera to the ringside doctor until the fourth round despite that he fought the rest of the first and the ensuing three rounds with a face full of blood that blinded his left eye and made him all but helpless to Khan’s right hand. As far as I could see, the ringside doctor didn’t even venture over to Barrera’s corner to inspect the cut during that entire time. It was if nothing had happened.
When the doctor did look at the cut in the middle of the fourth, he let the fight keep going before finally stopping it in the fifth round. The reason for that delay couldn’t be more obvious, and calculated, and crooked. Once it goes into the fifth round, any fight stopped by a cut resulting from an accidental head-butt goes to the scorecards for a decision, whereas short of five rounds, it is ruled a no contest. You see where this is going, I imagine. After the cut happened, and the blood made a mask of his face, Barrera was highly vulnerable in there. He fought nobly, as is his way, but he was a one-eyed fighter in retreat. Khan, who admittedly has great speed and accuracy, had an absolute field day picking apart the wounded Mexican.
And with the fight stopped in the fifth, the scorecards predictably read a unanimous rout for Khan, who celebrated as if he had actually won something and not been the beneficiary of a blatant bit of home-cooking. While Khan beat his chest, Barrera paced the ring flabbergasted at what had just transpired. “I was cut very badly,” he said with disgust in his post-fight interview. “They should have stopped the fight in the first round.”
Let’s cut back two Saturday’s ago for a moment here and revisit the Robert Guerrero/Daud Yordan fight on HBO’s Boxing After Dark card in San Jose. Guerrero was badly cut above his right eye in the second round. The ref did the right thing, immediately halting the action and directing Guerrero to the ringside doctor, who stopped the fight then and there, seemingly at Guerrero’s urging. Guerrero has since taken a lot of flak for that behavior, because he was fighting on a big-time HBO card in front of his hometown fans and boxing is a sport where quitting is never looked upon fondly in any circumstances.
Given what became of Barrera over in Manchester, however, Guerrero’s decision looks pretty sound in retrospect. Boxing is a violent game of human speed chess where moves and counter-moves are made in a matter of milliseconds. It’s a hard enough game to play with both eyes open wide. If one of them gets closed by forces beyond your control, why risk suffering a loss, and a beating, that you simply don’t deserve?
The thing is, Barrera is the genuine embodiment of The Mexican Warrior, not to mention the fact that he’s a living modern day legend and future Hall-of-Famer. He would never pull out of a fight like Guerrero did or ask a doctor to stop a fight, not in a million years, not even if it were clearly in his best interest to do so (apart from the first Pacquiao fight). That’s the referee’s and the doctor’s job, to protect a fighter both in the interests of his health and the general fairness and integrity of the sport.
In this case, with a packed house of rabid Manchurians present and much at stake for Khan’s future, integrity was thrown out the window, and with it the career of one of the greatest fighters of this generation. I don’t understand why more outrage isn’t being expressed by the boxing community about the situation at the moment, why everyone seems so willing to sign on to the presiding interpretation of what happened Saturday night -- that Khan destroyed a past-his-prime Barrera and looked great in doing so.
As for Khan looking great, let me say that I guarantee you two things: 1) If Khan had suffered that cut and the fight had been allowed to continue, Barrera would have looked equally dominant in destroying Khan, and 2) If Khan had suffered that cut, we never would have seen Barrera’s dominance, because the fight would have been stopped in either the first or second round like it should have been.
In conclusion, do I think Khan would have beaten Barrera on a level playing field? I honestly don’t know. Based on what I saw in the 90 seconds or so before Barrera was cut, I think it was going to be a very good fight, with Khan moving backwards and sharp-shooting his laser combos while Barrera stalked and looked for that one perfect counter that would prove the equalizer.
Now, though, we’ll never find out, as the press on both sides of the Atlantic bizarrely sees fit to hail Khan for an impressive and redemptive victory over a faded legend. Only Khan himself has the power to set the whole thing straight right now, and if he had any guts, he would drop his “I proved my point” sham routine, admit that he was the victor of a highly dubious contest and the only just thing to do about it is give Barrera a rematch.
Will he do that? Of course not, and to that I say shame on him, and shame on them all.
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At 1:18pm on 17 Mar 2009, The_Wind
You sound like another hater who cleverly creates arguments to appear like you are not a hater.
Barrera was adamant he wanted to continue in the 3rd round. I have seen the full fight.
And you bring up the usual nonsensical argument that Khan is over the top with his celebrations and his arrogance. Compared to alot of boxers he is humble and his reaction to winning this fight was not arrogant.
And you said this:
'Will he do that? Of course not, and to that I say shame on him, and shame on them all.'
Barrera was predicted by an overwhelming majority in Britain that he will walk all over khan from the first bell. Those people are now using the standard 'he was shot, he was cut excuse'
This proves to me that you are very likely to be one of those haters who will slag off Khan regardless of who he fights, when he fights and how he wins. Trying to be smart with well structured paragraphs is a waste of time cos some of us can read between the lines very well.
The only valid rematch for Khan is Prescott which will happen eventually (When Warren is convinced by Khan and Roach that it has to happen)
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167. At 1:18pm on 17 Mar 2009, The_Wind wrote:
Why Won't Anyone Admit Barrera Was Robbed?
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Anyone? There are no shortages of people slagging Khan off as lucky, cheat etc. So i dont know where you get the idea that nobody thinks Barrera was robbed. Infact all i am seeing mostly on the internet is talk of how the Poor Barrera this and that blah blah.
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SeamingWicket;
Is anyone allowed to criticize Khan, even constructively, without being a hater?
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"In this case, with a packed house of rabid Manchurians present"
I ought to point out that the MEN is in Manchester, England... not Manchuria, China. And while rabies is prevalent in China, it's been wiped out in the UK for some time.
In all seriousness though, I can see how people might take your point of view, however, the ability of Englishmen to give the benefit of the doubt to one of their own is so limited by their predisposition to jump to conspiracy theories, that it wouldn't matter how the fight was won, there'd have been a fringe element complaining that Barrera was robbed. If you watch the fight again you'll see that in round 3 Barrera was consulted extensively about what he wanted to do about the cut and HE decided to go on. He did so in the full knowledge that, if he completed the next round, he was risking the outcome that eventually came to pass. He forfeited the right to complain about an unfair decision at that point in my book.
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I_see_red_people:"khanalb - I was at the MEN and I booed Khan. That doesn't make me a racist."
Possibly not, but it does make you an imbecile.
"I also booed Nicky Cook for wearing a Man Utd top in to the ring when he's from Essex"
Oh no. Sorry, I take it back. My mistake, you're plainly Mensa material.
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I don't think you can say Barerra was robbed, he didn't have much luck considering the way the fight went but to say he was robbed is way wide of the mark. As fjsm said, the ref asked Barerra if he wanted to continue and he said yes. he has been in the professional fight game for 20 years, he would have known that if he continued, there was a serious chance of the fight being stopped later but he still chose to go on. While the circumstances were less than ideal for him, you can hardly say he was robbed, Khan boxed a lot better than him while the fight was on, easy done when you consider Barerra could only see out of one eye BUT..... regardless of that, Khan still boxed better therefore deserved to be ahead on the scorecards, therefore deserved to win. It's just a shame that there was so many question marks hanging over it.
As for any British fans who turn up to fights and boo Khan, Cook or any other British fighter. Why bother booing someone from your own country when they are fighting a mexican?? I just don't understand why anyone would want to boo a fellow brit???
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Khan got knocked down by Limond and Gomez. But he got straight back up and was able to continue. Calzaghe got knocked down more than once but got up and continued.
So...........why did Khan get KOd against Prescott?
1) Poor guard
2)Prescotts power
3)He was fasting
This 3rd point was very significant. It was a BIG BIG mistake getting in a boxing ring when your a fasting. Its supposed to be hard enough just lying around during fasting nevermind fight a pro boxing match.
I sincerely hope that Khan dosent do this again.
You dont spend days fasting prior to a pro fight. Incrdibly silly thing to do. He should have not fought during that period if his religious obligations are more important.
I am sure that Roach and Pacman will give him superb conditioning and training. Then he will fight the big names and maybe even Prescott.
But he will be crazy to get back in the ring during the fasting period
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Two things I noted as I reread the blog, the number of people who said Khan improved by snapping his punches back to his guard...hellooo, that is probably the first thing a fighter learns. I didn't see an improved Khan but someone brought back to the basics of fighting and got lucky with a headbutt. Second, Barrera is not going to quit because he is a fighter and it wouldn't get a no contest or rematch, just a loss, which he didn't deserve.
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It's still an improvement though. Before the fight people said that Khan was a bit wreckless in terms of defence and in this fight he had definitely put a lot more thought into his guard and seemed to try to keep to a rythym of popping in and out, keeping out of reach. It may be one of the first things you learn but in previous fights he forgot to do it, in this one he didn't so in that sense, he has improved. I sit somewhere in the middle on this thing anyway, i don't think Khan will ever make it to the elite level as i don't think he can take the big shots he will inevitavly take when fighting for world titles but i also feel a bit sorry for the lad cos a lot of people seem to try and find fault in him or criticise the tiniest thing simply cos they don't like him. I would actually love to see him prove me wrong and go on to become a great fighter.
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The problem with enzo is that he leaves himself a sitting duck to anyone with a decent right hand. He drops his guard when he throws his left and pays for making the simple mistake. i feel sometimes that enzo is just trying to mimick calzaghe too much by keeping his opponents at bay with the jab. unlike enzo, joe could take a punch and even if he got knocked down could recover quickly. if you think you can beat people by jabbing them all night in the cruiserweight division you are in for a shock. the cruiserweight division contains fighters with the power of heavyweights. enzo is one of these fighters but he needs to channel his power correctly. when he hurts fighters he just likes to ware them down before knocking them out, whereas he should go for the knockout as soon as he has them wobbled. david haye capitalised on enzo as soon as he had him wobbled. enzo didnt fight badly against afolabi, he just made a silly mistake which he paid for.
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SeamingWicket wrote:
"Khan got knocked down by Limond and Gomez. But he got straight back up and was able to continue."
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Ermmm... come again? Straight back up???
Against Limond he got "straight back up" after fourteen seconds, and only survived at all because of a shockingly slow count from McDonnell.
Selective memories, some folk...
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I can't understand the public, the fight may have been ended on a technicality but the fact is while the fight was going on the judges ALL thought Kahn was winning. As for the glass jaw, I think any boxer in the division would have trouble with it lets be honest Prescott has 21 kockouts in 22 fights, so he is obviously good at the big punch. Roach has come in to show Kahn how to pick when to attack and when to defend, and no matter what anyone says, its never easy to beat someone with MAB's experience.
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Maybe not easy, but definitely easier considering he has already previously retired, is at the wrong end of his career and spent his entire life fighting at a smaller weight. I don't have any problem with the fact the judges had Khan down as winning the fight cos he was and anybody with half a brain could see that. I just thought it was very suspicious that the fight was allowed to go on all the way to the 5th before it got called off considering the cut was no different to how it was in the 1st round??
As for the glass jaw debate, you can probably leave the Prescott KO out of it cos that would have knocked anybody out. But i still think Khan doesn't have the punch resistance needed to make it to the top. A future world champion shouldn't really be put on his ass and struggle against Willie Limond or Michael Gomez and a world champion certainly shouldn't be in trouble against Richard Drilzane.
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33. At 3:21pm on 15 Mar 2009, SeamingWicket wrote:
… Dont forget that Sugar Ray Robinson refused to fight against Charlie Burley (whom is regarded as the greatest p4p fighter but never achieved fame because he was ducked by everyone). Charley Burley was apparently so brilliant that he hardly ever got hit cleanly.
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Is this a joke? How could Burley possibly be the greatest fighter pound-for-pound if no-one, of note, fought him? But Ray Robinson's credibility can be put in question; his 200-odd fight professional career, fighting the likes of Lamotta and Basilio and being refused title fights because he wouldn't let the Mafia control his fights etc means nothing – yet you're on here arguing with anyone who thinks Khan might not make it! Bizarre…
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