BBC BLOGS - Ben Dirs
« Previous | Main | Next »

Haye much too hasty?

Ben Dirs | 16:52 UK time, Monday, 15 December 2008

As anyone who has ever attempted to eat a microwaved pasty will be well aware, unreasonable haste can leave you badly burned.

I doubt if David Haye has ever tackled a microwaved pasty. But he might want to think about making them the cornerstone of his diet following his headlong decision to fight Vitali Klitschko in London next summer.

Haye will be giving away about 30lb in weight and four-and-a-half inches in height to the WBC heavyweight champion from Ukraine. Perhaps more important, Vitali has never been knocked down, and rarely rocked.


No wonder Haye's trainer Adam Booth was so keen on little brother Wladimir. An inch shorter than Vitali and 10lb lighter, Wladimir has also been knocked out three times and sent to the canvas many times more.

"All of a sudden they've started putting the one with the stronger chin in front of us," said Booth after Haye's knockout of Monte Barrett last month. "That wasn't the plan."

In truth, the original plan probably wasn't to fight either of the Klitschkos, but rather Nigeria's Samuel Peter, whose lumbering style and lack of head movement appeared tailor-made for the quick-fisted Haye.

But Vitali put paid to that, stopping Peter in October to reclaim the WBC belt he gave up in November 2005, when he dragged his creaking body into retirement.

"Vitali was ringside for my victory over Barrett and I think he saw something in me that he doesn't want his brother getting involved in," Haye told the BBC.

"Vitali knows he has got a better chin than Wladimir. He's a lot sturdier and stronger, so I think he made a family decision and put himself in the firing line."

"A better chin", "sturdier and stronger". Three good reasons to avoid Vitali at all costs. But that's never been Haye's way.

London's former undisputed cruiserweight champion says there will be no warm-up fight for Vitali, and many observers will view that as madness.

As Haye said himself following his defeat of Barrett, "when my title fight comes along I'll be prepared, because I've been in with strong guys who come to win".

But does one fight against Barrett, a game but limited heavyweight who nevertheless had Haye down, represent sufficient preparation? And what's the rush?

After all, even Evander Holyfield, a truly phenomenal fighter in his day, had six fights as a heavyweight before tilting at the title.

But Haye's recklessness should be admired, not mocked. Fans cannot spend their lives bemoaning the cautiousness of today's fighters without applauding this modern-day crusader.

The swiftness with which the deal seems to have been done suggests Vitali does not think Haye will present too many problems. And Wladimir recently likened Haye to fellow Briton Herbie Hide, who Vitali knocked out in two rounds in 2000 to claim the WBO belt.

Haye's certainly got more about him than Hide in attacking terms, but can he prosper among the big men, as Norwich's Hide was unable to do? Many will wonder if the first round of his fight against Vitali is the place to find out.

Another problem with unreasonable haste is that there comes a point when it's impossible to turn back. But David Haye doesn't strike me as the type of man - win or lose - who spends much time looking over his shoulder.

He'll fancy he has the speed to upset the odds wherever he ends up fighting Vitali Klitschko next summer. And if he doesn't, he'll no doubt shrug and say: "Better we found out sooner rather than later that I simply wasn't good enough."


Page 1 of 3

  • Comment number 1.

    very good...i agree it could be too early, but he is exiting, because he has knockout punches in his hands, and can go down fairly easily too, but if he can land a big one early, he probably won't knock him out, but will almost certainly shake him, and put him on the back foot to attack.....probably a points decision, possibly a knockout.

  • Comment number 2.

    I agree fully that Haye should be applauded,

    the man has been boxing all his life, is he likely to improve significantly after one or two more fights at heavyweight?

    Moreover who would he fight that would challenge him enough to take him to another level, it's still a dull division

    Maybe one more fight would help, just to get used to the weight but although Monte Barrett is no Klitschko, he was blown away, it wasn't even close.

    heavyweights don't fight all that often and we don't know how long Vitali will be around for, if he loses he can always take on Wladimir,

    and then the rematch with Vitali!

  • Comment number 3.

    i think haye may cause vitali trouble but if you can remember lennox lewis hit vitail with some great shots and vitali didnt seem to be hurt..

    I think haye may win on points but as we all know haye stamina is the best but if he can land some haymakers early in the fight then vitali may not come as forward as he may like..

    We all know haye should have atleast one more fight, but fair play to him he aint scared and he has always said he wants the fight the best and he is..

    So good luck to him and im looking forward to fight.

  • Comment number 4.

    If Haye loses, he does not deserve a rematch. Besides, he will be in no fit condition to rematch.

  • Comment number 5.

    Haye is the epitome of the modern "Aff-Leet" boxer.

    Ironically, even at that, he encompasses so many of the traits that Chris Eubank was hated for- regarding the sport as both a source of income and a burden, a "mugs game", at the same time.

    Haye announces to us all that the division is in "dire" times. If Haye beats Vitali, which he wont, read on, then what does that make Haye, other than King of a very modest Hill.

    Haye is not a fighter in the proper sense of the term. He is, as Lord Bullingdon once referred to the eponymous Barry Lyndon as in Kubricks 1975 classic, "little more than a common opportunist".

    Haye, to his credit, has familiarised himself with his many shortcomings. Having been stopped by the decidedly average Odlanier Solis in the final of the 2001 World Amateur Championships, he wisely decided to spent as little amount of time in the professional ranks as possible.

    Haye has forged a name, of sorts, at Cruiserweight. He came within an ace of being KOd by somebody called Lolenga Mock, a part time 168lb fighter based somewhere in Scandinavia.

    He then lost to Carl Thompson, a man the aforementioned Eubank came close to beating, lasting the distance in their first fight, and easily shaking off the same punches which crumpled Haye.

    Haye then cashed out with a win over the flawed Mormeck and Maccarinelli. Ironically, Polands Tomas Adamek, a natural 175lbr has fought better comp at 200lbs in Steve Cunningham and O'Neill Bell than David Haye fought when he was at Cruiser.

    Haye did beat Bonin mind- though Bonin nearly went the distance with Harrisson which tells you all you need to know about Bonin. As for Monte Barrett, please...Haye said he didnt need it happens he did, and managed to get floored against a guy who Wladimir destroyed all of 8, yes thats right, 8 years ago, count them!

  • Comment number 6.

    Too bad Vitali doesnt go down. Too bad it is Haye who has the real problem with marking up. Too bad Vitali has already been to England and dismantled a small, chinny beanie-hat wearing Hvy Wt called Herbie Hide- another man that Haye was afraid to fight.

    I will be tuning in and it will be fun to see Haye get beaten up, down, left and right in front of his English mob.

  • Comment number 7.

    Blimey ironDirkDiggler, you really don't like David, do you?

  • Comment number 8.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 9.

    Look how hard Vitali had to work for his shot...they forced it on him at short notice, against Lewis. And then the referee did not give Vitali the chance that ALL champs have been given down the years- he was not given, as we say "one more round"... he regrouped...and destroyed Dangerous Kirk Johnson...and then the dangerous Sanders......and then Dangerous Danny Williams.

    .....even in his first fight coming back from the Chris Byrd injury, he took on a 12 rounder against Timo Hoffman for the vacant European title....coming off an 8 month injury enforced absence when his confidence was waaaaaay low- straight into a 12 round fight.

    And then....after 4 years out, straight into a 12 round title fight with Sam Peter.

    Those, my friend, are risks...that, my friend, is grasping the nettle.

    Haye is a cheap blagger by comparison. A confidence trickster- and I hope he pays handsomely for his transgressions.

  • Comment number 10.

    By way of addendum.....the fight is not signed and sealed for London, nor should it be. Bernd Bonte has agreed, verbally, to the fight. There is nothing in writing. I wonder will the WBC mess the Cuban Gomez over again.

  • Comment number 11.

    ironDirkDiggler you're clearly very knowledgeable, but your failure to mention of any of Haye's positives makes you too personally biased (which is fair enough on its own), to provide a valid assessment of a former undisputed cruiserweight champion.

    Talk is cheap, let's see what happens in the summer.

  • Comment number 12.

    Blimey ironDirkDiggler, you really, really don't like David...

  • Comment number 13.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 14.

    Haye is the ANTITHESIS of class and is the EPITOME of the thuggish, loutish class of yobs that have taken this country over in recent times.

    He deserves nothing.

    Mens Health?? Whats wrong Dave? Cant make it into Ring magazine, Punk???

  • Comment number 15.

    "Look how hard Vitali had to work for his shot...they forced it on him at short notice, against Lewis. And then the referee did not give Vitali the chance that ALL champs have been given down the years- he was not given, as we say "one more round"..."

    One more round as you put it and Vitali would have been left with permanent scarring! It was the worst cut I've ever seen and he was being easily picked off by Lewis as a result.

    He may have been ahead on points at the time the fight was stopped; however it would have never gone the distance with a cut like that.

    Haye has a chance and there are very few fighters in the heavyweight division who hit harder than Haye. I can see him shocking the lumbering Vitali.

  • Comment number 16.

    ironDirkDiggler - Do you like Muhammad Ali? I'd suggest he did some far nastier things than David Haye being mocked-up with a fake Wladimir Klitschko head.

  • Comment number 17.

    1. There are at least 2 fighters who hit harder than David.

    2. Every fighter gets his 3 minutes- Gatti got them, Marciano got them, and both got the KO they needed to win.

    3. Haye deserves nothing he has acted like a callous punk-

    4. See the link in point 3- Haye has done this to encourage Vitali to hit him, Haye, when he is down, and then they can rob him by DQ, like they tried to do to Barrett.

  • Comment number 18.

    I don't think Vitali's really offended, it's just the hype machine rolling into action.

    Diggler you don't work for the Daily Mail do you?

  • Comment number 19.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 20.

    It doesnt matter if Vitali is offended, its an offensive thing to do, especially in todays climate of beheadings and knife crime- think Nick Berg, or Dan Pearl, or Ken Bigby...and the London knife problem. Haye is a yob and I will be glad when he gets hurt.

    This fight should be in Germany. The mob cannot be trusted in London.

  • Comment number 21.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 22.

    No knives in the photo, could have used a chainsaw, purely fictional connection, classic mail tactic

  • Comment number 23.

    Well, karma didn't really get Ali, more getting hit lots of times by Joe Frazier. Keep it up though, you're bumping up the comment count quite nicely...

  • Comment number 24.


    For the benefit of the rest of the people here trying to have a civilized discussion can you keep your obvious dislike of David Haye to yourself? If you don't like him then that's fine, but why should i have to read through a load of hate-drivel?!

    "The mob cannot be trusted in London".. Remember a boxer by the name of Sven Ottke?? Fought in Germany all the time and was the beneficiary of some of the most appalling scoring decisions ever made! Robin Reid was the one that jumps out in my memory.

    Pretty please stop using this as a platform to vent your hate towards Haye, it kinda spoils it for the rest of us who want to have a bit of banter about the fight.

  • Comment number 25.

    ironDirkDiggler - Are you all right son? Do you want me to call an ambulance?

  • Comment number 26.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 27.

    Did you see Hayes uppercut that he threw when Barrett was down...Fatty Davies let it slip. Then when Haye was down, again, I know, fatty Davies took a point off Barrett for trying to hit him.

    Vitali had best stay away from London. Wasnt it London where they had those "Behead Them Now" people in the street??

  • Comment number 28.

    Hey an ambulance for David Haye..if you want.

  • Comment number 29.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 30.

    How am I BNP??????

    I never objected to David on grounds of Race or Ethnic identity...... I just think he has behaved like a yob.

    I dont think your comments should be removed. You are entitled to your opinion. I am not offended by your views.

  • Comment number 31.

    I say fair play to Haye. He sees the biggest, baddest fighter out there and wants to take him on. He deserves a medal, not criticism!

  • Comment number 32.

    difficult to see haye winning this one.........

    fair play for chasing after the top guy though.

    should be a fight worthy of looking forward to

  • Comment number 33.

    Actually re-reading some of your comments I think it might be more LSD than BNP.

  • Comment number 34.

    David Haye has more than a good chance. This is not the Vitali than run an over the hill lennox lewis close and probably would have won but for a cut this is a vitali klitscho who lumbered to a win over samuel peter and didnt look impressive, a man who has fought once in 4 years. I man who is beatable and david haye is the man to exploit it fast, powerful, strong and confidnet the only problem is his chin can he take a shot if he can he wins if not then his career is over

  • Comment number 35.

    First off Hatton v Pacman and then Haye v Klitschko, both on these shores and both going to be huge.

    Ben is right in that he's giving away a load of height, reach & weight, but Haye is going to have the advantage on speed and movement, he can bang a little bit as well! As for Vitali never being knocked out, there was an online 'debate' (call it what you will) that he once got sparkoed in his old kick-boxing days. Different to boxing i know, but still proves that his chin has let him down in the past.

    Should be a decent year for British boxing fans, Hatton, Haye, Enzo Mac, Cook, Froch et all.. Maybe even Calzaghe will fight another aged bum for another payday?!

  • Comment number 36.

    Wowsers some odd comments on here - IronD, get a life mate!

    I think Haye has a fantastic chance - I believe Vitali has had one fight in 4 years......... Against Peter who? (I could list who he's fought but I hope yo get my point)

    Whilst a fighter may never lose his punch, he can and will lose his stamina, punch resistance, movement etc

    David has an excellent chance, due to all things that Vlad does not possess.. As long as David doesn't go for the knock out, but should it arise take it! I don't see what What he has to worry about.. Vlad is anything but unpredictable.

    the only thing he has in his favour at this stage (maybe years ago he had more) is that a russian tank couldn't knock him out!

    I just hope Haye boxes and does not get into a brawl as that will be Vlads tactic and to be honest if Haye is to prove his worth, he needs to be more adaptable, flexible and show he can box his way to the the top!

  • Comment number 37.

    Plus, Haye is doing this in his third fight at heavy weight and yet some people want to knock him!!!

    Good luck Haye- I really hope you do It!

  • Comment number 38.

    Would be good to see either way. Never bother with the rants of boxers and just enjoy the action in side the ring.

    Haye certainly is entertaining to watch and looking forwarding to a good fight. Hope it lasts about 8-9 rounds.

  • Comment number 39.

    Haye is a fearless man. I don't think anyone can deny that.
    Beating Vitali is a monster job and currently I don't think Haye has the tools to do it. I can't see him getting inside Vitali. And what's gonna happen if Haye gets hit with a big one? Can he take it?
    Haye said he's gonna do a Tyson and if he manages to rock him early on, who knows.

  • Comment number 40.

    It wont last long...Vitali has superb movement- and has already out-maneovered and out-punched bigger, faster men like Sanders and Kirk Johnson.

    Look at the closing moments of his fight with Corrie-Rainbow-Nation-Street and you will see him slip and ride Sanders fast two-fisted attack and come back with fight-ending shots.

    The 4 years out of the ring has preserved Vitalis body and allowed him to be as impressive as he was when he became the only man to KO Sam Peter- destroying him, in fact, in 8 one sided rounds.

    Has David fought anyone like Vitali? No. Then again, David hasnt really fought anyone, now that I mention it.

    Vitali has fought plenty of these small, fast midget heavyweights like Herbie Hide and Julius Francis and slapped them about.

    Haye is up next and its going to be fun to see the Bling Brigade get theirs, and then some.

  • Comment number 41.


    he is fighting Vitali bro, not Wlad. Get with the programme.

  • Comment number 42.

    Iron D - I may have had too many lagers..

    And as in my first sentence, I mean Vit - but you dude are p****d in your assessment!

    How many years ago did VIT do these things you talk of?

    As I said, granted, years ago, VIT may well have done what you have said but now, with one fight in four years.. I doubt it!

    Haye would destroy those you have mentioned

    A recent win against Peters is hardly a reason for your argument!!

  • Comment number 43.

    Dick Diggler Is setting himself up for a massive disapointment when Haye wins the fight.
    Vitali is well over the hill and is tailor made for Haye.

  • Comment number 44.

    Dick Diggler do you see that picture of Haye laughing at the top of the page. He's sneering at you and people like you. He's come here and taken everything that this country has to offer and you know what? He is'nt even going to say thank you. How does that make you feel Dick Diggler?

  • Comment number 45.

    I think that Haye isn't giving himself a chance to beat Vitali. In fact, he's not giving himself a chance at all. Its not that Haye isnt talented, but self-confidence isnt enough of an indicator that you can hold your own against people like the Klitchko bros. Neither is 2 heavyweight wins against journeymen.

    I feel that Vitali will win comfortably, as much as i admire Haye. However, i feel that it will be real experience for Haye and will be the making of Haye the champion. Should be a good fight nonetheless. Heavyweight division is starting to heat up at last.

  • Comment number 46.

    Fair play to David Haye, sure he's brash and bold, but in this politically correct world is that not refreshing to see someone come out and say how he feels? I don't think he'll beat Vitali, but I'll be cheering him on the whole way through..!

  • Comment number 47.

    Hayes has nothing to lose against Vitali except his head if he gets caught rushing in which he has to do being outreached.

    I dont really like the brothers grimm but find myself disliking Hayes even more

    Thers a limit to cofidence and rhetoric I think Calzahe just about gets away with it

  • Comment number 48.

    Haye is typical of the trashy "yoof" that have taken over this country. It will be refreshing to see that impressive combination of Slavic grace and German efficiency destroy this charmless, pro-beheading fool.

    Just for what it is worth, for those of you that are so inclined....go check out the Sanders and Hide fights and see what Vitali does to these type of fighters.

    The way he leaned against the ropes against Sanders- Amazing. A 6'8" 250lb man, leaning and swaying and making Sanders miss, and then countering- two shots in the last round to keep an eye out for were both to the BODY of Sanders.

    Throwing body shots with his back against the ropes- vintage stuff. Ever seen Haye do that, like when, ha, Carl Thompson was backing him up??? No, didnt think so.

    As for all this "Haye woulda beaten them guys too blah blah blah"...nonsense.

    There is no room for this Floyd Mayweather-esque "Victory By Proxy" nonsense. Its not good enuff for Haye to win by proxy.

    He has to take the fights and win them himself. Two things that all fighters in all divisions all the time MUST DO is

    {a} EARN a title shot. Sometimes this can be done by forcing a mandatory, or by being in the right place at the right time. Haye is in the latter category, as was Rahman for Wlad. But at least Rahman is a former HVY WT CHAMP

    {b} fight the best contenders. Haye is not doing this. He is looking for a "Shit or Bust" fight, every time out. But he has to earn it. Montey Barrett?? No, sorry, not good enuff. It was good enuff for Wlad when he wanted to fight Byrd but that was....8 years ago.

  • Comment number 49.

    Don't agree with Dirk Diggler's opinion of Haye but you've gotta love his eloquence, keep it coming mate, great reading. I disagree with those who say Haye doesn't need more fights at Heavyweight first, he needs to be in there with a couple of big, seriously durable guys so that he can learn what to do when his punches don't have the desired effect, basically develop a plan B, as I do have my doubts that he can blow Vitali away. If he does go straight in there with him I am sad to say that I see an exhausted and frustrated Haye being stopped somewhere around the 7th.

  • Comment number 50.

    i think haye only has these fights out there at the moment as when he tried to find a heavyweight for his last fight if i remember rightly he got turned down by 2/3 opponents. hes a eager man with talent good luck to him.

  • Comment number 51.

    To DirkDiggler.
    Hatton v Pac man, what's your take?

  • Comment number 52.

    Well, my mate picked Pac to stop Oscar!! Can you believe that!! I had a few successful picks myself, the best was Bernard Dunne vs Martinez and Amir Khan vs Breidis Prescott.....

    If Ricky was still with Preacher Graham I would say RICKY in a heartbeat. I dont think Mayweather Sr will have Ricky active enough to beat Pac- the single powershots+defense that Mayweather Sr used to beat the faster but weaker Paulie Malignaggi might not work here.

    Nobody moves in and out of range along the beam faster than Pacman- but Ricky is a very very very close second and he UNDOUBTEDLY hits harder than Pacman.

    One thing Oscar De La Hoya has never ever had, even in his prime, is the brilliant footspeed of the "in-out-in-out" variety that Ricky has/had. People forget- Ricky won a Bronze at the Junior Worlds, if I recall correctly. People forget he was an accomplised amateur and Preacher only turned him pro after he got robbed in the amateurs.

    Pacs stance will leave him open to the left hooks to the midsection, I am sure of it.

    Will Ricky cut up before Pac does- or will Pac be surprised by how bull strong Ricky is?

    I would fancy Ricky to melt Pacman in 11 rounds- if Ricky can recreate the energy of the night he beat Tszyu.

    Insta-Classic, regardless.

  • Comment number 53.

    This fight adds a big jolt of excitement to the division, Haye will no doubt crack up the hype machine even further to get as many people watching as possible, and even if he gets his clock cleaned he won't have anything to be ashamed about.

    And if he's the limit.

  • Comment number 54.

    Good call, 100% agree. I get the impression that you're an admirer of Billy Graham. I was just getting the end of Hatton's biogrophy when he parted company with the preacher and despite being a big fan of the Hitman I can't say that I wasn't a bit disappointed that after all he wrote about fighters who part company with their trainers following a defeat that he seemed to do exactly the same.

  • Comment number 55.

    1. He wont win

    2. He should already be ashamed- the beaheading thing is in extremely poor taste, all things considered- Ring fatalities, Ken Bigby, the London knife epidemic...i mean, a little subtlety goes a long way.

    3. Yes, there is some excitement, but that will dissipate suddenly when Vitali wins, and the same people who picked Haye turned around and say Vitali beat a Cruiserweight, Haye was chinny, Hvy Wt division sucks blah blah blah.

    The upsides are all Hayes. The downsides are all Vitalis. Although he will get some pleasure from beating David up.

  • Comment number 56.

    The sky would be the limit, he could defend against Wladimir, then perhaps an all British title fight with Lennox and end with a rematch with Vitali, then retire

  • Comment number 57.

    When did he do this beheading gesture?

  • Comment number 58.

    Haye is going to get absolutely annihilated. Vitali is the best HW in the world by a distance with a granite chin and fists of iron.
    This is a total mismatch and the WBC or any other boxing organisation for that matter should not sanction this fight. Haye is way out of his depth and could get seriously hurt. If anyone thinks I am joking, take a look at the brutal beating that Vitali gave to Danny Williams a few years ago.

  • Comment number 59.


    I think there were a lot of "imponderables" as we say, with the Preacher situation. His injuries, his health, his inability to control Ricky- eg he didnt want the Collazo fight but Ricky made him do it.

    I dont think Billy was the greatest trainer of all time, and I do think he played his part in the failure during the Mayweather fight.

    That said, he was, as I see it, the best man for a prime Ricky and as much as I feel he failed Ricky in Las Vegas last December, I feel Ricky has been letting himself down as much thru his lifestyle and by letting Mayweather get under his skin, as Diego Corrales did.

    Preacher always made Ricky his priority. Thats more than can be said for Manny Steward with Lewis, or the bevvy of Don King controlled trainers who "trained" Mike Tyson.

    At least Billy made sure Ricky got plastic surgery early in his career to fix the cuts. Aaron Snowell, by contrast, used a condom filled with water to control Mikes eye in the Douglas fight.

    A good trainer does the little things well, even if he fails on the massive occasion.

  • Comment number 60.

    Also @ WestEndBoy

    Lewis is finished. No way he is coming back. The way that Lewis ended his career was, I am afraid to say, damaging to both Lewis and the game itself.

    As the Yanks say- piss or get off the pot.

    Lewis left us all waiting for an unnecessary 18 months.

    As it happens, I cannot see Lewis coming back. Even if Haye beat Vitali, which he wont, there is no guarantee that Haye, the success now gone to his head, would take the Wlad fight- by that stage Wlad would be controlling the WBA belt too.

    And- remember- Wlad can play a few cards too. He can always say to David.."All you did was beat a guy who came out retirement- I was the consensus world #1"...which he is, in truth.

    So Wlad could call the shots. And David might not like going to Germany, and that fight might never get made.

    AS IT HAPPENS......Bernd Bonte said today that all that exists is a VERBAL AGREEMENT...nothing is signed even for Vitali.

  • Comment number 61.

    Gotta sat IDD that you call it well. I suppose any relationship can become stale, maybe Hatton and Graham simply reached the end of the road. Love your comment about Tyson's anti-swelling condom in the Douglas fight, ridiculous, if I wasn't such a big fan of the Iron one it would have been histerical, he should never have got rid of Rooney. In my opinion it really started to go wrong for Tyson when Jimmy Jacobs died, it opened the door for all the vultures and opportunists to get to him.

  • Comment number 62.

    Maybe my sarcasm in the Haye beats Vitali, Wladimir, Lewis and then Vitali again didn't come through in text. he won't beat Vitali to start with

  • Comment number 63.

    Ironically Dirk - You are doing the same thing as as us all, "Speculating"

    But I guess - That means you're right!

    I still say, Haye will win and to prove my argument more intelligent and to not discombobulate any further - ner ner ne ner ner!

  • Comment number 64.

    Cheers WestEnd.

    I dont want to me too conservative, after all, James Douglas got an "undeserved shot" {having been beaten by Tubbs previously} and he took full advantage.

    But Douglas kept his mouth shut.

    Haye is accusing people...people who might not have heard of him...of being afraid of him.

    Its become a joke- and a bad one at that with this latest "beheading" nonsense.

    When Hamed fought McCullough in Vegas in 1998/1999 they wanted to have the names of Hameds victims on headstones as part of a ring entrance. It was Halloween at the time.

    But Richie Wenton was fighting on the undercard and Warren told the TV people where to go. Wenton had fought James Murray earlier in his career and Murray died of his injuries. Warren thought the names-on-headstones went too far.

    Somebody should do the same here- tell Haye this "beheading" stuff is a step too far.

  • Comment number 65.


    I am speculating but it is educated guesswork- Klitschko has fought better men and beaten them.

    Haye was on the matt against Mock, Mormeck and Barrett.

    He seemed to land an awful lot of clean leather against Barrett......and took a while to beat him.

    He also cuts and marks up, that should be noted.....the Fragomeni and Macca fights saw him cut badly.

    All in all Sanders, Lewis, Hide, are some pretty hefty hitters. 2 of them got KTFO and the other one escaped on a technicality.

    Lasse Johannsson.....Carl Thompson.......he might as well have been fighting Carl Johannsson!!!!!!

  • Comment number 66.

    Iron D - I am sorry as this seems, I'm having a go at you!! But for the record - I am not!!

    Rather than pass judgement - provide a solution!

    I could pick as many holes in the last "super" fights you have found wrong with this, fight!

    It hasn't even been agreed that a belt is at stake yet - Just a good old fashioned fight could be at stake!!

    By a game challenger and a champion!!

    if you can name a better fight in the heavyweight division right NOW.. I'll be glad to hear it!

  • Comment number 67.

    Way to go David.. All this gibber gabber about will he win ,will he lose? Who cares for once a boxer who does what he says he's gonna do.. No dodging fights just get in there and do his best.. Other so called TOP ranked boxers should take note

  • Comment number 68.

    There is no reason why Haye should not get a shot at Vitali.
    Boxing has a history of champions from one weight division moving up to have immediate matches with champions from the weight above( Jones v Ruiz, Hatton v Mayweather and Collazo, Pacquio v Diaz, Henry Armstrong held world titles at three different weights at the same time ), I don't see why Diggler thinks that Haye, the undisputed cruiserweight champ doesn't deserve a shot at one of many belts currently at heavyweight.
    I am not sure if Haye can win, however he certainly deserves his shot.

  • Comment number 69.


    Don't you get it man!!! Don't you see it??? Haye KNOWS in his heart of hearts that IF he takes 3, 4, 5 fights at HVT that he WILL LOSE before he gets around to fighting for a title. So he is using his Mouth and his "CRUISER LEGACY"......{as if....:rolleyes:} to get a title shot. Thats not on.


    It is an intriguing fight and it is a good fight for the division but you and I both know that there is one problem here: neither Haye nor Vitali>AMERICAN!

    As soon as Vitali beats this guy the YANKS WILL SAY...David Haye...who the Carl Froch is David Haye....Cruiser who lost to Thompson, never fought USS Cunningham..big deal....Hvy Wt Division is piss....blah blah blah.

    No upside...for Vitali...other than the personal pleasure of beating David.

    It will be fun while it lasts. But then it dissipates into "David Haye was no good to begin with etc" from the Yanks....

  • Comment number 70.

    All respect to David Haye. So what if he's talking up the fight, people forget he's promoting himself.

    In respect to the outcome I have a feeling he's already winning the mind games. He's got big Vitali riled. Haye isn't stupid and I've a feeling he'll be too quick for Ivan Drago. If he keeps he chin out of the way I can only see a Haye victory. Either way it's going to be a great heavyweight title fight which the division has been severely lacking of late.

  • Comment number 71.

    Haye is winning the mind games??? Check this out.....

    Yeah...Haye is "winning alright"....he looks...embarassed and upset.

    Look how much his body moves when Vitali hits him!!

    And Davids response: Mens Health and the beheading foto.


    Vitali should not take this fight in London, they will try to job him.

  • Comment number 72.

    Iron - I agree with your last post...

    But I still feel that due to Vitali's lack of action... His predictability, and the fact that you have to question his desire, other than to be the Klitscho brother champs

    Haye has more than a chance..

  • Comment number 73.

    Vitali has had more rounds at his last fight....than Haye has had in his...ENTIRE CAREER.

    In fact, Vitali has more rounds in his last fight than Haye has in his last 2 fights.

    8 vs 6 for the first, and 8 vs 7 for the 2nd.

    Vitali has been plenty active.

    Angelo Dundee, when he was training George Foreman, said that the best thing about Foreman in the mid 90's was that his body had been saved an awful lot of wear and tear by taking 12 years OFF from the sport!!!

    Michael Moorer was a fast, lithe, powerful southpaw who had defeated Evander Holyfield.

    Yet fat, inactive-for-12-years-Foreman took his best shots and beat him, eventually.

    Is Klitschko as slow and ponderous as Foreman? Is Haye really any faster or more powerful than Moorer?? Remember, Moorer had come UP from 175lbs too.


  • Comment number 74.

    irond... hasn't USS just been sparkoed? Didn't Haye also take on and smash the best cruiserweight in Mormeck?

    And you contradict yourself when you mention the cuts situation, Haye hasn't lost via cuts whereas Vitali has...

    You said him using his mouth isn't on, i thought that's how boxers usually get who they want in the ring? Anyway, who else is there for Vitali to fight that will generate the buzz that Haye will bring?

    As for the Thompson fight, that was only his 11th fight up against a seriously decent boxer. He came in too quick and pretty much punched himself to an exhaustion by being overly wild. He couldn't respond as he was absolutely knackered. How many other guys have taken on someone of Thompsons class in their 11th fight?

    This is what got me so wound up on the Pacman v Hatton thread; a boxer who can bang will always have a chance, to make slightly ignorant statements of how a certain boxer will 100% get smashed around is based purely on your dislike for the guy. I'll agree that on paper he should probably take a pasting, but on paper is different to a live fight. Why's this fight so different to the DLH v Pacman fight? The similarities are there, DLH was past it (and you cannot convince me Vitali is still in his prime) and he was up against a smaller but faster opponent, just like Vitali is up against Haye.

  • Comment number 75.

    I have no idea why Vitali has taken the fight, so when I am in Kyiv next week I will ask his friends. I guess it has something to do with the fact that he will enjoy beating up and playing with Hayes (who I am sure he considers rude and uneducated). Also I think he feels Hayes has no chance of hurting him so why not shut him up for fun (good for his UK exposure too)
    I am not sure what non-boxing fans are doing on this blog but if anyone thought L.Lewis was going to win the Klitschko/Lewis fight they were watching with their eyes closed. Lewis was spent and scared and needed the ref to stop the fight. He is too scared to come out of retirement so let’s forget this pointless topic.
    Vitali will just increase his bank balance and Hayes will be crushed (Danny Williams is a tough fighter with guts and power and look what happened to him).
    Good luck to both boxers though, I hope no-one if left injured
    Anyone who knows boxing should know what it takes to fight at HW - this is a no-contest. Hayes has no chance (I however think he is brave or maybe too stupid to understand he will be beaten so badly - ask Lennox and Danny how hard he hits).
    I will look forward to the fight in the same way I enjoyed the European X-country championship this weekend.

  • Comment number 76.

    People writing Haye off are simply talking complete rubbish. The point has been made, and there are massive similarities between this match and DLH v Pacman.

    4 in 5 boxing matchups have bad mouthing - Haye isn't cocky, or yobbish, he is confident and is breeding new life into a division desperately needing it. If Haye wins, it will be great for heavyweight boxing, and there will be a massive buzz around it again wihch will hopefully see a stronger heavyweight division over the years to come.

    There is nothing at all to prove that Haye can't put up a good fight. Vitali will win if he is able to control the fight from the outside with his jab and slow haye down - haye will win if he is able to work Vitali from all angles and present a completely different problem to him.

  • Comment number 77.

    iron d, all ur post have been incredibly entertaining! fair play,
    but you have been online now since the blog was up and i think its starting to tell on your reasoning!
    to conclude that vitali's has fought more credible opponents than haye, pound for pound is absurd...
    both mormeck and enzo, were top contenders, mormeck particularly,
    in contrast both, you argue that the peters fight, and waldimirs beating of rahman, reveal the klitchkoes domination of the divison.
    in reality they are both good boxers, with different strengths, waldimir is the better boxer, more rangy style, vitali the granite chin and unyielding defence, both lack speed, both frankly uninspiring.
    haye didnt need to take 4-5 fights to become the mandatory challenger, hes fought at 200lbs for years, the guy has been tested for punch resistance, undisputed cruizerweight champion, with charisma, slightly cocky and an exciting flamboyant fighting style, is (believe it or not Iron Dirk Digger) exactly what the ailing division needs, rather than rahman, who although with one puch took arguably one of te greatest heavyweigths of all time out lennox lewis, is still a nobody and a relatively run of the mill heavywieght.

    haye to win, reignite the division, unify the titles

  • Comment number 78.

    data whizz kid

    uv gotta b crazy....!

    surely you saw the cut under vitali's eye?
    lewis legitimately won the fight,
    in performance terms have any of vitali's fights ever even nearly resembled the boxing apitude of any of lewis's, really? lewis's stella career was undermined sole by inconsistancy, yet still for many he ranks as one of the greatest heavyweights ever, for proof, look at his wins over donovan ruddock, bruno, both the draw and win over holyfield (a boxer who took apart the divison from cruizerweight) and the dismantling of tyson...
    vitali has an iron chin, great punch resistance, but little else, that could be considered world class.

  • Comment number 79.

    Like I said jdrawrmer - why are people who know nothing about boxing on this blog!!! Yes Hayes might win if this and if that.

    I have to agree with you though - Hayes may win IF Klitschko accidentally ties his boot laces together and decides to fall asleep standing up when the first bell goes.

    He has as much chance as me winning the lottery this weekend without buying a ticket.

  • Comment number 80.

    mmveglio - it was a bad cut so why wasn't it stopped when he got the cut? Why was it only stopped when Lewis was spent. Lewis was beat - one more round he would have been knocked out, he had nothing left. Have another look at the last round agian and tell me who was going to win, there was only going to be one winner (was Klitschko's cut any worst the round before - no it wasn't - it went far enough to make it a contest and for all bookies bet to stand).

  • Comment number 81.

    also - just looked at the fight again and here is a bbc link -

    here is a nice extract - But Klitschko was dominant, frequently forcing Lewis back and stunning him with an array of punches.

    The challenger proved his durability when two huge Lewis uppercuts in the sixth failed to drop him.

    At the end of that round, Lewis slumped into his corner and looked every one of his 37 years.

    But the Ukrainian had no chance to take advantage as the fight was stopped before he could come out for the seventh.

    I am pleased to see that someone else was watching :-)

  • Comment number 82.


    To be hoest mate we could go on about that fight for years. But he got beaten because of a very very bad cut. If you watch it again you can see why. get over it and move on!

  • Comment number 83.

    Added to that many very good and even great fighters have lost on cuts. If the skin won't hold then thats part of the game

  • Comment number 84.

    I'll give my opinion on the fight in question now, I feel that Haye will almost certainly be out of his depth. I would really like to see him win but vitali will surely be far to strong for him. It amazes me that Haye is taking such a gamble and possibly a really heavy beating. Whilst his courage can't be questioned his judgement certainly can. If he wins this i'll eat my hat BUT let it be said nothing would make me happier.

  • Comment number 85.

    David Haye has a good KO record, but this is primarily down to his ability to get on the inside regularly. his height at cruiserweight allowed him to work off the jab and then able take a little more time to decide shot selection. he will not be able to do either against vitali. when fighting on the inside against vitali, haye would want to get his shots off quickly, cos vitali has the ability to destroy him. haye often drops his left too low and that would prove hazardous as the straight right from vitali is a proven tool. I think too many physical limitations are on Haye and lack of experience means vitali is the overwhelming favourite. I would go as far as saying if Haye won it would be more shocking than when James buster douglas beat tyson out in Japan. personally i would have liked to have seen Haye mop up all the other soviet block fighters first like Valuev, Chagaev and Ibragimov. All of these are very beatable. so would the likes of Toney and Holyfield. but i think its a little too early for such a jump in calibre. a last point i shall make is the quality of hayes opponent. the best Haye has been in with is Maccarinelli and thompson. Maccarinelli is a decent fighter but will never make a p4p list in a million years! and thompson must have been 40 at least when haye lost to him! klitschko has secured a legacy and has to be considered top 5 heavyweight fighter of the last 20 years.

  • Comment number 86.

    Why waste your time working your way up to vitali by fighting bums in the heavyweight division . He has been around for a while . He may not be as big , but he is probably just as strong , quicker and fitter than the current b grade heavy weights and that crop includes over rated vitali . Remember manny vs delahoya they all sadi he is to small he will get knocked out . Well lets see if the younger guy can do it again

  • Comment number 87.

    ironDirkDiggler if you dont like haye fair enough but just admit this, you called danny williams dangerous in post 9 i think.

    Is this the same danny williams who a washed up audley harrison controlled and battered, Haye is faster and hits harder than him.

    And if so give him one thing if his a phoney at least admit he has the guts to try and prove his not you call his talk bullcrap but he said hed fight the klitschkos and not duck the challenge and he hasnt so a bit of honesty in the boxing world is rare nowadays so at least applaud him for that.

  • Comment number 88.

    I watched the Klitschko fight on Sunday morning. I thought it was rubbish. His opponent didn't go there to win. His tactics were to lean on the ropes and take punches.

    One thing is for sure. A fight with Haye would be worth watching if nothing else.

    I am confident that Haye has the speed and movement to win too. Klitschko hasn't fought anyone that moves for a very long time.


  • Comment number 89.

    I'm relatively a rookie boxing fan but I think ironDirkDiggler's comments are crazy! I think he definitely has some deep personal issues that need to be dealt with haha..
    Firstly, I think Klitschko is underated, probably in some way down to the fact he's not American or British. But he's also in the final stages of his career now and that can't be overlooked. Just take De La Hoya, he genuinely thought he had it still in him only to realise his body had let him down. Nobody can say whether Klitschko has reached that stage until he gets in the ring again.
    You have to applaud Haye he's at least attempting to do what he said he would do not just mouthing off. It probably would have been safe to go after Valuev first or even the younger Klitschko but he's gone for the tougher Vitali and he has to be respected for that..

  • Comment number 90.

    datawhiz: Lewis beat Vitali, plain and simple. If your face can't withstand cuts then that's tough!

    Anyway, you mention that Lewis was over it at 37, isn't Vitali the same age..? He's also only fought once in 4 years against an opponent who sums up how poor the heavyweight division is. Peters was a lumbering lump, nothing more and certainly nothing better than that.

    Roryboxer - As for your statement that Klitschko's in the top 5 heavyweights of the last 20 years, are you on drugs?! So you're saying he would be above the likes of Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Larry Holmes was still boxing in this time period as well.

    Lewis gave him a run for his money (and was coming back into the fight) when he had lost all his hunger, age had caught up with him etc etc. Against a prime Lewis he would have been dismantled as he's just a good European style fighter - hits, walks and does everything else in straight lines.

  • Comment number 91.

    I think everyone should applaud David haye for this pivitol move in his boxing career . The thing is people moan when a champion ducks people , but haye like hatton wants the best avaliable opponent out there . And when he wins we will have 4 World champions that rule there division . Froch i think will become un disputed champ ,hatton , haye and calzaghe are all RING champions .So lets enjoy this abundance of world class fighters and get behind haye to become HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP of the world .!!!

    Hatton vs Pacquiao
    Froch vs Kessler
    Calzaghe vs Chad Dawson
    Haye vs both klitcscho 's !!!

    BRING ON 2009 !!!!!!!!!

  • Comment number 92.

    I don't think it's too soon. Let's face it, with that chin Haye is an accident waiting to happen at heavy, with his power being his get out of jail card.

    However, what would happen if he was to face and get ko'd by a mediocre heavy with a decent chin before he fought either of the Klitschko's? It would be game over for his heavyweight adventure, so the sooner he faces them, the better.

  • Comment number 93.

    Firstly, hats off to Haye for making this fight happen. He is obviously the only exciting prospect in the heavyweight division and after destroying Enzo Maccarinelli, there wasn't much left for him to do in that weight division.

    I agree he is maybe being a little wreckless going after Vitali so quickly, but I don't think it is such an absurd thought that he will beat him. Haye obviously has the power to knock him out and has more than enough speed to be able to land his bombs, it is just a case of avoiding shipping too much damage.

    It's going to be a great fight, I think similar to the Maccarinelli fight - first man to land a huge punch will pick up the win.

  • Comment number 94.

    Haye wont, no, cant knock vitali out.

    It'll simply never happen.

    He leaves himself way too open aswell, vitali will dismantle him inside 7....

  • Comment number 95.


    Haye is no way near lewis, hasnt got a good enough chin for vitali, lewis landing some massive shots on vitali that night and he just walked through them.

    as for the cut thing, if the fight had been in ireland vitali would of won. it WAS a technicallity.

    as i've said vitali inside 7...

  • Comment number 96.

    I salute his disposition.

    David beat Goliath living or dying by the weapon he was most skilled with, his sling shot.
    Now Haye gets the chance to do the same.
    Take it away Theodore....

    " ...attempting Mighty Things, you will often be halted by failures. Better though to try with all that is in you than not do so.

    For those that Do try the seemingly impossible, win or lose, they will never dwell in that dim twilight that knows niether victory or defeat. "

    Theodore Rosevelt

  • Comment number 97.

    Vitali was always perceived to be the weaker of the two brothers before Wlad's chin was exposed and Vitali proved supremely competitive against Lewis.

    You look at Vitali's record though and you've gotta ask the question, who exactly has he beaten to be so feared? Especially in recent years. Corrie Sanders? Danny Williams? Sam Peter? Butterbean?

    There's barely been a realistic threat, an obstacle capable of offering something different to anything but a human punchbag.

    Let's face it, Vitali has his formidable reputation and is best known for his performance of a lifetime in a fight he still lost. Lewis, as a big guy already, was always sluggish when carrying too many pounds and came in his 2nd heaviest weight ever that fight (10 pounds heavier than he was when Rahman beat him!). His poor condition made Vitali look better than he was and the latter was still gassing horribly when it was stopped.

    Can he produce anything near as intense a performance 6 years later when he's closing in on his 38th birthday? Sam Peter sure didnt answer any questions about Vitali's quality on returning, producing one of the worst performances i've ever seen in a championship fight.

    Comparing Vitali to Wlad, Vitali's is a much easier target to hit which can only be a good thing when talking about Haye's power. Vitali is also more robotic and hasnt the supreme quality of jab his brother possesses - Haye definitely doesnt have to do as much work to land.

    The negative for Haye ...Vitali's intelligence, chin like iron and great power in both fists. But can he land cleanly on an opponent with better speed and reflexes than anyone he's faced in years, someone who can actually hit back hard (something Byrd couldnt do)?

    We'll see..

  • Comment number 98.

    And ironDirkDiggler referring to Lolenga Mock to dismiss Haye's punch resistance and chances is as completely worthless as using Rustico Torrecampo as a means to write off Manny Pacquiao in every fight he's fought since.

    It's futile.

    Same goes for Thompson because that one loss was all about Haye's naivety in conditioning and seeking out a 1st round knockout (and i've barely seen a more one-sided round or two) against a seasoned survivor than anything else.

  • Comment number 99.


    Technicality or not, the record books state a win for Lewis. Lewis was coming back into the fight at that stage and Klitschko had pretty much punched himself out, he was breathing out of his bum basically.

    I'm not sure what you mean about the fight being allowed to continue if in Ireland..? Fact is the WBC belt was up for grabs so had WBC rules in place... So not quite sure what you're getting at...

    What price a Hatton/Haye double up... both by KO... hmmmm!

  • Comment number 100.

    Lets also remember that when Lewis fought Vitali, he did precious little to get out of the way of any of Vitali's punches. It was one of Lennox's poorer displays and he was tagged frequently but Vitali never managed to put him away.

    Klitschko doesn't have anything like the speed of Haye and I don't think there is much difference in power, the only disadvantage I can see for Haye is in terms of physical size - a factor which Manny Pacquiao made a mockery of in dismantling De La Hoya.

    Klitschko is probably a worthy favourite on the fact he is the experienced heavyweight, but assuming Haye will get a pasting is an extremely naive stance. David will be ready for Vitali and I don't think Vitali has fought as classy a boxer and as good an athlete as Haye for some time.

    If he doesn't assert himself on Haye quickly and keep him at distance with the jab, I think he will very quickly find himself struggling against a much slicker opponent.


Page 1 of 3

BBC © 2014 The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.

This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.