Haye much too hasty?
As anyone who has ever attempted to eat a microwaved pasty will be well aware, unreasonable haste can leave you badly burned.
I doubt if David Haye has ever tackled a microwaved pasty. But he might want to think about making them the cornerstone of his diet following his headlong decision to fight Vitali Klitschko in London next summer.
Haye will be giving away about 30lb in weight and four-and-a-half inches in height to the WBC heavyweight champion from Ukraine. Perhaps more important, Vitali has never been knocked down, and rarely rocked.
No wonder Haye's trainer Adam Booth was so keen on little brother Wladimir. An inch shorter than Vitali and 10lb lighter, Wladimir has also been knocked out three times and sent to the canvas many times more.
"All of a sudden they've started putting the one with the stronger chin in front of us," said Booth after Haye's knockout of Monte Barrett last month. "That wasn't the plan."
In truth, the original plan probably wasn't to fight either of the Klitschkos, but rather Nigeria's Samuel Peter, whose lumbering style and lack of head movement appeared tailor-made for the quick-fisted Haye.
But Vitali put paid to that, stopping Peter in October to reclaim the WBC belt he gave up in November 2005, when he dragged his creaking body into retirement.
"Vitali was ringside for my victory over Barrett and I think he saw something in me that he doesn't want his brother getting involved in," Haye told the BBC.
"Vitali knows he has got a better chin than Wladimir. He's a lot sturdier and stronger, so I think he made a family decision and put himself in the firing line."
"A better chin", "sturdier and stronger". Three good reasons to avoid Vitali at all costs. But that's never been Haye's way.
London's former undisputed cruiserweight champion says there will be no warm-up fight for Vitali, and many observers will view that as madness.
As Haye said himself following his defeat of Barrett, "when my title fight comes along I'll be prepared, because I've been in with strong guys who come to win".
But does one fight against Barrett, a game but limited heavyweight who nevertheless had Haye down, represent sufficient preparation? And what's the rush?
After all, even Evander Holyfield, a truly phenomenal fighter in his day, had six fights as a heavyweight before tilting at the title.
But Haye's recklessness should be admired, not mocked. Fans cannot spend their lives bemoaning the cautiousness of today's fighters without applauding this modern-day crusader.
The swiftness with which the deal seems to have been done suggests Vitali does not think Haye will present too many problems. And Wladimir recently likened Haye to fellow Briton Herbie Hide, who Vitali knocked out in two rounds in 2000 to claim the WBO belt.
Haye's certainly got more about him than Hide in attacking terms, but can he prosper among the big men, as Norwich's Hide was unable to do? Many will wonder if the first round of his fight against Vitali is the place to find out.
Another problem with unreasonable haste is that there comes a point when it's impossible to turn back. But David Haye doesn't strike me as the type of man - win or lose - who spends much time looking over his shoulder.
He'll fancy he has the speed to upset the odds wherever he ends up fighting Vitali Klitschko next summer. And if he doesn't, he'll no doubt shrug and say: "Better we found out sooner rather than later that I simply wasn't good enough."
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very good...i agree it could be too early, but he is exiting, because he has knockout punches in his hands, and can go down fairly easily too, but if he can land a big one early, he probably won't knock him out, but will almost certainly shake him, and put him on the back foot to attack.....probably a points decision, possibly a knockout.
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I agree fully that Haye should be applauded,
the man has been boxing all his life, is he likely to improve significantly after one or two more fights at heavyweight?
Moreover who would he fight that would challenge him enough to take him to another level, it's still a dull division
Maybe one more fight would help, just to get used to the weight but although Monte Barrett is no Klitschko, he was blown away, it wasn't even close.
heavyweights don't fight all that often and we don't know how long Vitali will be around for, if he loses he can always take on Wladimir,
and then the rematch with Vitali!
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i think haye may cause vitali trouble but if you can remember lennox lewis hit vitail with some great shots and vitali didnt seem to be hurt..
I think haye may win on points but as we all know haye stamina is the best but if he can land some haymakers early in the fight then vitali may not come as forward as he may like..
We all know haye should have atleast one more fight, but fair play to him he aint scared and he has always said he wants the fight the best and he is..
So good luck to him and im looking forward to fight.
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If Haye loses, he does not deserve a rematch. Besides, he will be in no fit condition to rematch.
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Haye is the epitome of the modern "Aff-Leet" boxer.
Ironically, even at that, he encompasses so many of the traits that Chris Eubank was hated for- regarding the sport as both a source of income and a burden, a "mugs game", at the same time.
Haye announces to us all that the division is in "dire" times. If Haye beats Vitali, which he wont, read on, then what does that make Haye, other than King of a very modest Hill.
Haye is not a fighter in the proper sense of the term. He is, as Lord Bullingdon once referred to the eponymous Barry Lyndon as in Kubricks 1975 classic, "little more than a common opportunist".
Haye, to his credit, has familiarised himself with his many shortcomings. Having been stopped by the decidedly average Odlanier Solis in the final of the 2001 World Amateur Championships, he wisely decided to spent as little amount of time in the professional ranks as possible.
Haye has forged a name, of sorts, at Cruiserweight. He came within an ace of being KOd by somebody called Lolenga Mock, a part time 168lb fighter based somewhere in Scandinavia.
He then lost to Carl Thompson, a man the aforementioned Eubank came close to beating, lasting the distance in their first fight, and easily shaking off the same punches which crumpled Haye.
Haye then cashed out with a win over the flawed Mormeck and Maccarinelli. Ironically, Polands Tomas Adamek, a natural 175lbr has fought better comp at 200lbs in Steve Cunningham and O'Neill Bell than David Haye fought when he was at Cruiser.
Haye did beat Bonin mind- though Bonin nearly went the distance with Harrisson which tells you all you need to know about Bonin. As for Monte Barrett, please...Haye said he didnt need him...as it happens he did, and managed to get floored against a guy who Wladimir destroyed all of 8, yes thats right, 8 years ago, count them!
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Too bad Vitali doesnt go down. Too bad it is Haye who has the real problem with marking up. Too bad Vitali has already been to England and dismantled a small, chinny beanie-hat wearing Hvy Wt called Herbie Hide- another man that Haye was afraid to fight.
I will be tuning in and it will be fun to see Haye get beaten up, down, left and right in front of his English mob.
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Blimey ironDirkDiggler, you really don't like David, do you?
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Look how hard Vitali had to work for his shot...they forced it on him at short notice, against Lewis. And then the referee did not give Vitali the chance that ALL champs have been given down the years- he was not given, as we say "one more round"...
...so he regrouped...and destroyed Dangerous Kirk Johnson...and then the dangerous Sanders......and then Dangerous Danny Williams.
.....even in his first fight coming back from the Chris Byrd injury, he took on a 12 rounder against Timo Hoffman for the vacant European title....coming off an 8 month injury enforced absence when his confidence was waaaaaay low- straight into a 12 round fight.
And then....after 4 years out, straight into a 12 round title fight with Sam Peter.
Those, my friend, are risks...that, my friend, is grasping the nettle.
Haye is a cheap blagger by comparison. A confidence trickster- and I hope he pays handsomely for his transgressions.
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By way of addendum.....the fight is not signed and sealed for London, nor should it be. Bernd Bonte has agreed, verbally, to the fight. There is nothing in writing. I wonder will the WBC mess the Cuban Gomez over again.
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ironDirkDiggler you're clearly very knowledgeable, but your failure to mention of any of Haye's positives makes you too personally biased (which is fair enough on its own), to provide a valid assessment of a former undisputed cruiserweight champion.
Talk is cheap, let's see what happens in the summer.
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Blimey ironDirkDiggler, you really, really don't like David...
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Haye is the ANTITHESIS of class and is the EPITOME of the thuggish, loutish class of yobs that have taken this country over in recent times.
He deserves nothing.
Mens Health?? Whats wrong Dave? Cant make it into Ring magazine, Punk???
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"Look how hard Vitali had to work for his shot...they forced it on him at short notice, against Lewis. And then the referee did not give Vitali the chance that ALL champs have been given down the years- he was not given, as we say "one more round"..."
One more round as you put it and Vitali would have been left with permanent scarring! It was the worst cut I've ever seen and he was being easily picked off by Lewis as a result.
He may have been ahead on points at the time the fight was stopped; however it would have never gone the distance with a cut like that.
Haye has a chance and there are very few fighters in the heavyweight division who hit harder than Haye. I can see him shocking the lumbering Vitali.
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ironDirkDiggler - Do you like Muhammad Ali? I'd suggest he did some far nastier things than David Haye being mocked-up with a fake Wladimir Klitschko head.
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1. There are at least 2 fighters who hit harder than David.
2. Every fighter gets his 3 minutes- Gatti got them, Marciano got them, and both got the KO they needed to win.
3. Haye deserves nothing he has acted like a callous punk-http://www.setanta.com/uk/Articles/other-sports/2008/12/15/Boxing-Vitali-on-Haye-photo/gnid-31705/#comments
4. See the link in point 3- Haye has done this to encourage Vitali to hit him, Haye, when he is down, and then they can rob him by DQ, like they tried to do to Barrett.
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I don't think Vitali's really offended, it's just the hype machine rolling into action.
Diggler you don't work for the Daily Mail do you?
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It doesnt matter if Vitali is offended, its an offensive thing to do, especially in todays climate of beheadings and knife crime- think Nick Berg, or Dan Pearl, or Ken Bigby...and the London knife problem. Haye is a yob and I will be glad when he gets hurt.
This fight should be in Germany. The mob cannot be trusted in London.
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No knives in the photo, could have used a chainsaw, purely fictional connection, classic mail tactic
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Well, karma didn't really get Ali, more getting hit lots of times by Joe Frazier. Keep it up though, you're bumping up the comment count quite nicely...
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ironDirkDiggler...
For the benefit of the rest of the people here trying to have a civilized discussion can you keep your obvious dislike of David Haye to yourself? If you don't like him then that's fine, but why should i have to read through a load of hate-drivel?!
"The mob cannot be trusted in London".. Remember a boxer by the name of Sven Ottke?? Fought in Germany all the time and was the beneficiary of some of the most appalling scoring decisions ever made! Robin Reid was the one that jumps out in my memory.
Pretty please stop using this as a platform to vent your hate towards Haye, it kinda spoils it for the rest of us who want to have a bit of banter about the fight.
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ironDirkDiggler - Are you all right son? Do you want me to call an ambulance?
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Did you see Hayes uppercut that he threw when Barrett was down...Fatty Davies let it slip. Then when Haye was down, again, I know, fatty Davies took a point off Barrett for trying to hit him.
Vitali had best stay away from London. Wasnt it London where they had those "Behead Them Now" people in the street??
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Hey Ben...call an ambulance for David Haye..if you want.
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How am I BNP??????
I never objected to David on grounds of Race or Ethnic identity...... I just think he has behaved like a yob.
I dont think your comments should be removed. You are entitled to your opinion. I am not offended by your views.
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I say fair play to Haye. He sees the biggest, baddest fighter out there and wants to take him on. He deserves a medal, not criticism!
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difficult to see haye winning this one.........
fair play for chasing after the top guy though.
should be a fight worthy of looking forward to
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Actually re-reading some of your comments I think it might be more LSD than BNP.
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David Haye has more than a good chance. This is not the Vitali than run an over the hill lennox lewis close and probably would have won but for a cut this is a vitali klitscho who lumbered to a win over samuel peter and didnt look impressive, a man who has fought once in 4 years. I man who is beatable and david haye is the man to exploit it fast, powerful, strong and confidnet the only problem is his chin can he take a shot if he can he wins if not then his career is over
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First off Hatton v Pacman and then Haye v Klitschko, both on these shores and both going to be huge.
Ben is right in that he's giving away a load of height, reach & weight, but Haye is going to have the advantage on speed and movement, he can bang a little bit as well! As for Vitali never being knocked out, there was an online 'debate' (call it what you will) that he once got sparkoed in his old kick-boxing days. Different to boxing i know, but still proves that his chin has let him down in the past.
Should be a decent year for British boxing fans, Hatton, Haye, Enzo Mac, Cook, Froch et all.. Maybe even Calzaghe will fight another aged bum for another payday?!
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Wowsers some odd comments on here - IronD, get a life mate!
I think Haye has a fantastic chance - I believe Vitali has had one fight in 4 years......... Against Peter who? (I could list who he's fought but I hope yo get my point)
Whilst a fighter may never lose his punch, he can and will lose his stamina, punch resistance, movement etc
David has an excellent chance, due to all things that Vlad does not possess.. As long as David doesn't go for the knock out, but should it arise take it! I don't see what What he has to worry about.. Vlad is anything but unpredictable.
the only thing he has in his favour at this stage (maybe years ago he had more) is that a russian tank couldn't knock him out!
I just hope Haye boxes and does not get into a brawl as that will be Vlads tactic and to be honest if Haye is to prove his worth, he needs to be more adaptable, flexible and show he can box his way to the the top!
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Plus, Haye is doing this in his third fight at heavy weight and yet some people want to knock him!!!
Good luck Haye- I really hope you do It!
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Would be good to see either way. Never bother with the rants of boxers and just enjoy the action in side the ring.
Haye certainly is entertaining to watch and looking forwarding to a good fight. Hope it lasts about 8-9 rounds.
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Haye is a fearless man. I don't think anyone can deny that.
Beating Vitali is a monster job and currently I don't think Haye has the tools to do it. I can't see him getting inside Vitali. And what's gonna happen if Haye gets hit with a big one? Can he take it?
Haye said he's gonna do a Tyson and if he manages to rock him early on, who knows.
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It wont last long...Vitali has superb movement- and has already out-maneovered and out-punched bigger, faster men like Sanders and Kirk Johnson.
Look at the closing moments of his fight with Corrie-Rainbow-Nation-Street and you will see him slip and ride Sanders fast two-fisted attack and come back with fight-ending shots.
The 4 years out of the ring has preserved Vitalis body and allowed him to be as impressive as he was when he became the only man to KO Sam Peter- destroying him, in fact, in 8 one sided rounds.
Has David fought anyone like Vitali? No. Then again, David hasnt really fought anyone, now that I mention it.
Vitali has fought plenty of these small, fast midget heavyweights like Herbie Hide and Julius Francis and slapped them about.
Haye is up next and its going to be fun to see the Bling Brigade get theirs, and then some.
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@MOONHEAD45
he is fighting Vitali bro, not Wlad. Get with the programme.
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Iron D - I may have had too many lagers..
And as in my first sentence, I mean Vit - but you dude are p****d in your assessment!
How many years ago did VIT do these things you talk of?
As I said, granted, years ago, VIT may well have done what you have said but now, with one fight in four years.. I doubt it!
Haye would destroy those you have mentioned
A recent win against Peters is hardly a reason for your argument!!
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Dick Diggler Is setting himself up for a massive disapointment when Haye wins the fight.
Vitali is well over the hill and is tailor made for Haye.
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Dick Diggler do you see that picture of Haye laughing at the top of the page. He's sneering at you and people like you. He's come here and taken everything that this country has to offer and you know what? He is'nt even going to say thank you. How does that make you feel Dick Diggler?
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I think that Haye isn't giving himself a chance to beat Vitali. In fact, he's not giving himself a chance at all. Its not that Haye isnt talented, but self-confidence isnt enough of an indicator that you can hold your own against people like the Klitchko bros. Neither is 2 heavyweight wins against journeymen.
I feel that Vitali will win comfortably, as much as i admire Haye. However, i feel that it will be real experience for Haye and will be the making of Haye the champion. Should be a good fight nonetheless. Heavyweight division is starting to heat up at last.
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Fair play to David Haye, sure he's brash and bold, but in this politically correct world is that not refreshing to see someone come out and say how he feels? I don't think he'll beat Vitali, but I'll be cheering him on the whole way through..!
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Hayes has nothing to lose against Vitali except his head if he gets caught rushing in which he has to do being outreached.
I dont really like the brothers grimm but find myself disliking Hayes even more
Thers a limit to cofidence and rhetoric I think Calzahe just about gets away with it
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Haye is typical of the trashy "yoof" that have taken over this country. It will be refreshing to see that impressive combination of Slavic grace and German efficiency destroy this charmless, pro-beheading fool.
Just for what it is worth, for those of you that are so inclined....go check out the Sanders and Hide fights and see what Vitali does to these type of fighters.
The way he leaned against the ropes against Sanders- Amazing. A 6'8" 250lb man, leaning and swaying and making Sanders miss, and then countering- two shots in the last round to keep an eye out for were both to the BODY of Sanders.
Throwing body shots with his back against the ropes- vintage stuff. Ever seen Haye do that, like when, ha, Carl Thompson was backing him up??? No, didnt think so.
As for all this "Haye woulda beaten them guys too blah blah blah"...nonsense.
There is no room for this Floyd Mayweather-esque "Victory By Proxy" nonsense. Its not good enuff for Haye to win by proxy.
He has to take the fights and win them himself. Two things that all fighters in all divisions all the time MUST DO is
{a} EARN a title shot. Sometimes this can be done by forcing a mandatory, or by being in the right place at the right time. Haye is in the latter category, as was Rahman for Wlad. But at least Rahman is a former HVY WT CHAMP
{b} fight the best contenders. Haye is not doing this. He is looking for a "Shit or Bust" fight, every time out. But he has to earn it. Montey Barrett?? No, sorry, not good enuff. It was good enuff for Wlad when he wanted to fight Byrd but that was....8 years ago.
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Don't agree with Dirk Diggler's opinion of Haye but you've gotta love his eloquence, keep it coming mate, great reading. I disagree with those who say Haye doesn't need more fights at Heavyweight first, he needs to be in there with a couple of big, seriously durable guys so that he can learn what to do when his punches don't have the desired effect, basically develop a plan B, as I do have my doubts that he can blow Vitali away. If he does go straight in there with him I am sad to say that I see an exhausted and frustrated Haye being stopped somewhere around the 7th.
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i think haye only has these fights out there at the moment as when he tried to find a heavyweight for his last fight if i remember rightly he got turned down by 2/3 opponents. hes a eager man with talent good luck to him.
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To DirkDiggler.
Hatton v Pac man, what's your take?
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Well, my mate picked Pac to stop Oscar!! Can you believe that!! I had a few successful picks myself, the best was Bernard Dunne vs Martinez and Amir Khan vs Breidis Prescott.....
If Ricky was still with Preacher Graham I would say RICKY in a heartbeat. I dont think Mayweather Sr will have Ricky active enough to beat Pac- the single powershots+defense that Mayweather Sr used to beat the faster but weaker Paulie Malignaggi might not work here.
Nobody moves in and out of range along the beam faster than Pacman- but Ricky is a very very very close second and he UNDOUBTEDLY hits harder than Pacman.
One thing Oscar De La Hoya has never ever had, even in his prime, is the brilliant footspeed of the "in-out-in-out" variety that Ricky has/had. People forget- Ricky won a Bronze at the Junior Worlds, if I recall correctly. People forget he was an accomplised amateur and Preacher only turned him pro after he got robbed in the amateurs.
Pacs stance will leave him open to the left hooks to the midsection, I am sure of it.
Will Ricky cut up before Pac does- or will Pac be surprised by how bull strong Ricky is?
I would fancy Ricky to melt Pacman in 11 rounds- if Ricky can recreate the energy of the night he beat Tszyu.
Insta-Classic, regardless.
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This fight adds a big jolt of excitement to the division, Haye will no doubt crack up the hype machine even further to get as many people watching as possible, and even if he gets his clock cleaned he won't have anything to be ashamed about.
And if he wins...sky's the limit.
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Good call, 100% agree. I get the impression that you're an admirer of Billy Graham. I was just getting the end of Hatton's biogrophy when he parted company with the preacher and despite being a big fan of the Hitman I can't say that I wasn't a bit disappointed that after all he wrote about fighters who part company with their trainers following a defeat that he seemed to do exactly the same.
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1. He wont win
2. He should already be ashamed- the beaheading thing is in extremely poor taste, all things considered- Ring fatalities, Ken Bigby, the London knife epidemic...i mean, a little subtlety goes a long way.
3. Yes, there is some excitement, but that will dissipate suddenly when Vitali wins, and the same people who picked Haye turned around and say Vitali beat a Cruiserweight, Haye was chinny, Hvy Wt division sucks blah blah blah.
The upsides are all Hayes. The downsides are all Vitalis. Although he will get some pleasure from beating David up.
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The sky would be the limit, he could defend against Wladimir, then perhaps an all British title fight with Lennox and end with a rematch with Vitali, then retire
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When did he do this beheading gesture?
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Haye is going to get absolutely annihilated. Vitali is the best HW in the world by a distance with a granite chin and fists of iron.
This is a total mismatch and the WBC or any other boxing organisation for that matter should not sanction this fight. Haye is way out of his depth and could get seriously hurt. If anyone thinks I am joking, take a look at the brutal beating that Vitali gave to Danny Williams a few years ago.
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@WestEndBoy
I think there were a lot of "imponderables" as we say, with the Preacher situation. His injuries, his health, his inability to control Ricky- eg he didnt want the Collazo fight but Ricky made him do it.
I dont think Billy was the greatest trainer of all time, and I do think he played his part in the failure during the Mayweather fight.
That said, he was, as I see it, the best man for a prime Ricky and as much as I feel he failed Ricky in Las Vegas last December, I feel Ricky has been letting himself down as much thru his lifestyle and by letting Mayweather get under his skin, as Diego Corrales did.
Preacher always made Ricky his priority. Thats more than can be said for Manny Steward with Lewis, or the bevvy of Don King controlled trainers who "trained" Mike Tyson.
At least Billy made sure Ricky got plastic surgery early in his career to fix the cuts. Aaron Snowell, by contrast, used a condom filled with water to control Mikes eye in the Douglas fight.
A good trainer does the little things well, even if he fails on the massive occasion.
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Also @ WestEndBoy
Lewis is finished. No way he is coming back. The way that Lewis ended his career was, I am afraid to say, damaging to both Lewis and the game itself.
As the Yanks say- piss or get off the pot.
Lewis left us all waiting for an unnecessary 18 months.
As it happens, I cannot see Lewis coming back. Even if Haye beat Vitali, which he wont, there is no guarantee that Haye, the success now gone to his head, would take the Wlad fight- by that stage Wlad would be controlling the WBA belt too.
And- remember- Wlad can play a few cards too. He can always say to David.."All you did was beat a guy who came out retirement- I was the consensus world #1"...which he is, in truth.
So Wlad could call the shots. And David might not like going to Germany, and that fight might never get made.
AS IT HAPPENS......Bernd Bonte said today that all that exists is a VERBAL AGREEMENT...nothing is signed even for Vitali.
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Gotta sat IDD that you call it well. I suppose any relationship can become stale, maybe Hatton and Graham simply reached the end of the road. Love your comment about Tyson's anti-swelling condom in the Douglas fight, ridiculous, if I wasn't such a big fan of the Iron one it would have been histerical, he should never have got rid of Rooney. In my opinion it really started to go wrong for Tyson when Jimmy Jacobs died, it opened the door for all the vultures and opportunists to get to him.
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Maybe my sarcasm in the Haye beats Vitali, Wladimir, Lewis and then Vitali again didn't come through in text. he won't beat Vitali to start with
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Ironically Dirk - You are doing the same thing as as us all, "Speculating"
But I guess - That means you're right!
I still say, Haye will win and to prove my argument more intelligent and to not discombobulate any further - ner ner ne ner ner!
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Cheers WestEnd.
I dont want to me too conservative, after all, James Douglas got an "undeserved shot" {having been beaten by Tubbs previously} and he took full advantage.
But Douglas kept his mouth shut.
Haye is accusing people...people who might not have heard of him...of being afraid of him.
Its become a joke- and a bad one at that with this latest "beheading" nonsense.
When Hamed fought McCullough in Vegas in 1998/1999 they wanted to have the names of Hameds victims on headstones as part of a ring entrance. It was Halloween at the time.
But Richie Wenton was fighting on the undercard and Warren told the TV people where to go. Wenton had fought James Murray earlier in his career and Murray died of his injuries. Warren thought the names-on-headstones went too far.
Somebody should do the same here- tell Haye this "beheading" stuff is a step too far.
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IRELAND:
I am speculating but it is educated guesswork- Klitschko has fought better men and beaten them.
Haye was on the matt against Mock, Mormeck and Barrett.
He seemed to land an awful lot of clean leather against Barrett......and took a while to beat him.
He also cuts and marks up, that should be noted.....the Fragomeni and Macca fights saw him cut badly.
All in all Sanders, Lewis, Hide, are some pretty hefty hitters. 2 of them got KTFO and the other one escaped on a technicality.
Lasse Johannsson.....Carl Thompson.......he might as well have been fighting Carl Johannsson!!!!!!
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Iron D - I am sorry as this seems, I'm having a go at you!! But for the record - I am not!!
Rather than pass judgement - provide a solution!
I could pick as many holes in the last "super" fights you have found wrong with this, fight!
It hasn't even been agreed that a belt is at stake yet - Just a good old fashioned fight could be at stake!!
By a game challenger and a champion!!
if you can name a better fight in the heavyweight division right NOW.. I'll be glad to hear it!
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Way to go David.. All this gibber gabber about will he win ,will he lose? Who cares for once a boxer who does what he says he's gonna do.. No dodging fights just get in there and do his best.. Other so called TOP ranked boxers should take note
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There is no reason why Haye should not get a shot at Vitali.
Boxing has a history of champions from one weight division moving up to have immediate matches with champions from the weight above( Jones v Ruiz, Hatton v Mayweather and Collazo, Pacquio v Diaz, Henry Armstrong held world titles at three different weights at the same time ), I don't see why Diggler thinks that Haye, the undisputed cruiserweight champ doesn't deserve a shot at one of many belts currently at heavyweight.
I am not sure if Haye can win, however he certainly deserves his shot.
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@WATCHADDICT
Don't you get it man!!! Don't you see it??? Haye KNOWS in his heart of hearts that IF he takes 3, 4, 5 fights at HVT that he WILL LOSE before he gets around to fighting for a title. So he is using his Mouth and his "CRUISER LEGACY"......{as if....:rolleyes:} to get a title shot. Thats not on.
@Moonhead
It is an intriguing fight and it is a good fight for the division but you and I both know that there is one problem here: neither Haye nor Vitali is....an.....>AMERICAN!
As soon as Vitali beats this guy the YANKS WILL SAY...David Haye...who the Carl Froch is David Haye....Cruiser who lost to Thompson, never fought USS Cunningham..big deal....Hvy Wt Division is piss....blah blah blah.
No upside...for Vitali...other than the personal pleasure of beating David.
It will be fun while it lasts. But then it dissipates into "David Haye was no good to begin with etc" from the Yanks....
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All respect to David Haye. So what if he's talking up the fight, people forget he's promoting himself.
In respect to the outcome I have a feeling he's already winning the mind games. He's got big Vitali riled. Haye isn't stupid and I've a feeling he'll be too quick for Ivan Drago. If he keeps he chin out of the way I can only see a Haye victory. Either way it's going to be a great heavyweight title fight which the division has been severely lacking of late.
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Haye is winning the mind games??? Check this out.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsAa3fVubUg
Yeah...Haye is "winning alright"....he looks...embarassed and upset.
Look how much his body moves when Vitali hits him!!
And Davids response: Mens Health and the beheading foto.
Brilliant.
Vitali should not take this fight in London, they will try to job him.
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Iron - I agree with your last post...
But I still feel that due to Vitali's lack of action... His predictability, and the fact that you have to question his desire, other than to be the Klitscho brother champs
Haye has more than a chance..
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Vitali has had more rounds at Heavyweight...in his last fight....than Haye has had in his...ENTIRE CAREER.
In fact, Vitali has more rounds in his last fight than Haye has in his last 2 fights.
8 vs 6 for the first, and 8 vs 7 for the 2nd.
Vitali has been plenty active.
Angelo Dundee, when he was training George Foreman, said that the best thing about Foreman in the mid 90's was that his body had been saved an awful lot of wear and tear by taking 12 years OFF from the sport!!!
Michael Moorer was a fast, lithe, powerful southpaw who had defeated Evander Holyfield.
Yet fat, inactive-for-12-years-Foreman took his best shots and beat him, eventually.
Is Klitschko as slow and ponderous as Foreman? Is Haye really any faster or more powerful than Moorer?? Remember, Moorer had come UP from 175lbs too.
Peace.
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irond... hasn't USS just been sparkoed? Didn't Haye also take on and smash the best cruiserweight in Mormeck?
And you contradict yourself when you mention the cuts situation, Haye hasn't lost via cuts whereas Vitali has...
You said him using his mouth isn't on, i thought that's how boxers usually get who they want in the ring? Anyway, who else is there for Vitali to fight that will generate the buzz that Haye will bring?
As for the Thompson fight, that was only his 11th fight up against a seriously decent boxer. He came in too quick and pretty much punched himself to an exhaustion by being overly wild. He couldn't respond as he was absolutely knackered. How many other guys have taken on someone of Thompsons class in their 11th fight?
This is what got me so wound up on the Pacman v Hatton thread; a boxer who can bang will always have a chance, to make slightly ignorant statements of how a certain boxer will 100% get smashed around is based purely on your dislike for the guy. I'll agree that on paper he should probably take a pasting, but on paper is different to a live fight. Why's this fight so different to the DLH v Pacman fight? The similarities are there, DLH was past it (and you cannot convince me Vitali is still in his prime) and he was up against a smaller but faster opponent, just like Vitali is up against Haye.
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I have no idea why Vitali has taken the fight, so when I am in Kyiv next week I will ask his friends. I guess it has something to do with the fact that he will enjoy beating up and playing with Hayes (who I am sure he considers rude and uneducated). Also I think he feels Hayes has no chance of hurting him so why not shut him up for fun (good for his UK exposure too)
I am not sure what non-boxing fans are doing on this blog but if anyone thought L.Lewis was going to win the Klitschko/Lewis fight they were watching with their eyes closed. Lewis was spent and scared and needed the ref to stop the fight. He is too scared to come out of retirement so let?s forget this pointless topic.
Vitali will just increase his bank balance and Hayes will be crushed (Danny Williams is a tough fighter with guts and power and look what happened to him).
Good luck to both boxers though, I hope no-one if left injured
Anyone who knows boxing should know what it takes to fight at HW - this is a no-contest. Hayes has no chance (I however think he is brave or maybe too stupid to understand he will be beaten so badly - ask Lennox and Danny how hard he hits).
I will look forward to the fight in the same way I enjoyed the European X-country championship this weekend.
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People writing Haye off are simply talking complete rubbish. The point has been made, and there are massive similarities between this match and DLH v Pacman.
4 in 5 boxing matchups have bad mouthing - Haye isn't cocky, or yobbish, he is confident and is breeding new life into a division desperately needing it. If Haye wins, it will be great for heavyweight boxing, and there will be a massive buzz around it again wihch will hopefully see a stronger heavyweight division over the years to come.
There is nothing at all to prove that Haye can't put up a good fight. Vitali will win if he is able to control the fight from the outside with his jab and slow haye down - haye will win if he is able to work Vitali from all angles and present a completely different problem to him.
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iron d, all ur post have been incredibly entertaining! fair play,
but you have been online now since the blog was up and i think its starting to tell on your reasoning!
to conclude that vitali's has fought more credible opponents than haye, pound for pound is absurd...
both mormeck and enzo, were top contenders, mormeck particularly,
in contrast both, you argue that the peters fight, and waldimirs beating of rahman, reveal the klitchkoes domination of the divison.
in reality they are both good boxers, with different strengths, waldimir is the better boxer, more rangy style, vitali the granite chin and unyielding defence, both lack speed, both frankly uninspiring.
haye didnt need to take 4-5 fights to become the mandatory challenger, hes fought at 200lbs for years, the guy has been tested for punch resistance, undisputed cruizerweight champion, with charisma, slightly cocky and an exciting flamboyant fighting style, is (believe it or not Iron Dirk Digger) exactly what the ailing division needs, rather than rahman, who although with one puch took arguably one of te greatest heavyweigths of all time out lennox lewis, is still a nobody and a relatively run of the mill heavywieght.
haye to win, reignite the division, unify the titles
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data whizz kid
uv gotta b crazy....!
surely you saw the cut under vitali's eye?
lewis legitimately won the fight,
in performance terms have any of vitali's fights ever even nearly resembled the boxing apitude of any of lewis's, really? lewis's stella career was undermined sole by inconsistancy, yet still for many he ranks as one of the greatest heavyweights ever, for proof, look at his wins over donovan ruddock, bruno, both the draw and win over holyfield (a boxer who took apart the divison from cruizerweight) and the dismantling of tyson...
vitali has an iron chin, great punch resistance, but little else, that could be considered world class.
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Like I said jdrawrmer - why are people who know nothing about boxing on this blog!!! Yes Hayes might win if this and if that.
I have to agree with you though - Hayes may win IF Klitschko accidentally ties his boot laces together and decides to fall asleep standing up when the first bell goes.
He has as much chance as me winning the lottery this weekend without buying a ticket.
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mmveglio - it was a bad cut so why wasn't it stopped when he got the cut? Why was it only stopped when Lewis was spent. Lewis was beat - one more round he would have been knocked out, he had nothing left. Have another look at the last round agian and tell me who was going to win, there was only going to be one winner (was Klitschko's cut any worst the round before - no it wasn't - it went far enough to make it a contest and for all bookies bet to stand).
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also - just looked at the fight again and here is a bbc link - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/3010398.stm
here is a nice extract - But Klitschko was dominant, frequently forcing Lewis back and stunning him with an array of punches.
The challenger proved his durability when two huge Lewis uppercuts in the sixth failed to drop him.
At the end of that round, Lewis slumped into his corner and looked every one of his 37 years.
But the Ukrainian had no chance to take advantage as the fight was stopped before he could come out for the seventh.
I am pleased to see that someone else was watching :-)
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Data
To be hoest mate we could go on about that fight for years. But he got beaten because of a very very bad cut. If you watch it again you can see why. get over it and move on!
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Added to that many very good and even great fighters have lost on cuts. If the skin won't hold then thats part of the game
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I'll give my opinion on the fight in question now, I feel that Haye will almost certainly be out of his depth. I would really like to see him win but vitali will surely be far to strong for him. It amazes me that Haye is taking such a gamble and possibly a really heavy beating. Whilst his courage can't be questioned his judgement certainly can. If he wins this i'll eat my hat BUT let it be said nothing would make me happier.
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David Haye has a good KO record, but this is primarily down to his ability to get on the inside regularly. his height at cruiserweight allowed him to work off the jab and then able take a little more time to decide shot selection. he will not be able to do either against vitali. when fighting on the inside against vitali, haye would want to get his shots off quickly, cos vitali has the ability to destroy him. haye often drops his left too low and that would prove hazardous as the straight right from vitali is a proven tool. I think too many physical limitations are on Haye and lack of experience means vitali is the overwhelming favourite. I would go as far as saying if Haye won it would be more shocking than when James buster douglas beat tyson out in Japan. personally i would have liked to have seen Haye mop up all the other soviet block fighters first like Valuev, Chagaev and Ibragimov. All of these are very beatable. so would the likes of Toney and Holyfield. but i think its a little too early for such a jump in calibre. a last point i shall make is the quality of hayes opponent. the best Haye has been in with is Maccarinelli and thompson. Maccarinelli is a decent fighter but will never make a p4p list in a million years! and thompson must have been 40 at least when haye lost to him! klitschko has secured a legacy and has to be considered top 5 heavyweight fighter of the last 20 years.
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Why waste your time working your way up to vitali by fighting bums in the heavyweight division . He has been around for a while . He may not be as big , but he is probably just as strong , quicker and fitter than the current b grade heavy weights and that crop includes over rated vitali . Remember manny vs delahoya they all sadi he is to small he will get knocked out . Well lets see if the younger guy can do it again
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ironDirkDiggler if you dont like haye fair enough but just admit this, you called danny williams dangerous in post 9 i think.
Is this the same danny williams who a washed up audley harrison controlled and battered, Haye is faster and hits harder than him.
And if so give him one thing if his a phoney at least admit he has the guts to try and prove his not you call his talk bullcrap but he said hed fight the klitschkos and not duck the challenge and he hasnt so a bit of honesty in the boxing world is rare nowadays so at least applaud him for that.
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I watched the Klitschko fight on Sunday morning. I thought it was rubbish. His opponent didn't go there to win. His tactics were to lean on the ropes and take punches.
One thing is for sure. A fight with Haye would be worth watching if nothing else.
I am confident that Haye has the speed and movement to win too. Klitschko hasn't fought anyone that moves for a very long time.
Al
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I'm relatively a rookie boxing fan but I think ironDirkDiggler's comments are crazy! I think he definitely has some deep personal issues that need to be dealt with haha..
Firstly, I think Klitschko is underated, probably in some way down to the fact he's not American or British. But he's also in the final stages of his career now and that can't be overlooked. Just take De La Hoya, he genuinely thought he had it still in him only to realise his body had let him down. Nobody can say whether Klitschko has reached that stage until he gets in the ring again.
You have to applaud Haye he's at least attempting to do what he said he would do not just mouthing off. It probably would have been safe to go after Valuev first or even the younger Klitschko but he's gone for the tougher Vitali and he has to be respected for that..
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datawhiz: Lewis beat Vitali, plain and simple. If your face can't withstand cuts then that's tough!
Anyway, you mention that Lewis was over it at 37, isn't Vitali the same age..? He's also only fought once in 4 years against an opponent who sums up how poor the heavyweight division is. Peters was a lumbering lump, nothing more and certainly nothing better than that.
Roryboxer - As for your statement that Klitschko's in the top 5 heavyweights of the last 20 years, are you on drugs?! So you're saying he would be above the likes of Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Larry Holmes was still boxing in this time period as well.
Lewis gave him a run for his money (and was coming back into the fight) when he had lost all his hunger, age had caught up with him etc etc. Against a prime Lewis he would have been dismantled as he's just a good European style fighter - hits, walks and does everything else in straight lines.
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I think everyone should applaud David haye for this pivitol move in his boxing career . The thing is people moan when a champion ducks people , but haye like hatton wants the best avaliable opponent out there . And when he wins we will have 4 World champions that rule there division . Froch i think will become un disputed champ ,hatton , haye and calzaghe are all RING champions .So lets enjoy this abundance of world class fighters and get behind haye to become HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP of the world .!!!
Hatton vs Pacquiao
Froch vs Kessler
Calzaghe vs Chad Dawson
Haye vs both klitcscho 's !!!
BRING ON 2009 !!!!!!!!!
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I don't think it's too soon. Let's face it, with that chin Haye is an accident waiting to happen at heavy, with his power being his get out of jail card.
However, what would happen if he was to face and get ko'd by a mediocre heavy with a decent chin before he fought either of the Klitschko's? It would be game over for his heavyweight adventure, so the sooner he faces them, the better.
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Firstly, hats off to Haye for making this fight happen. He is obviously the only exciting prospect in the heavyweight division and after destroying Enzo Maccarinelli, there wasn't much left for him to do in that weight division.
I agree he is maybe being a little wreckless going after Vitali so quickly, but I don't think it is such an absurd thought that he will beat him. Haye obviously has the power to knock him out and has more than enough speed to be able to land his bombs, it is just a case of avoiding shipping too much damage.
It's going to be a great fight, I think similar to the Maccarinelli fight - first man to land a huge punch will pick up the win.
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Haye wont, no, cant knock vitali out.
It'll simply never happen.
He leaves himself way too open aswell, vitali will dismantle him inside 7....
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coxy0001
Haye is no way near lewis, hasnt got a good enough chin for vitali, lewis landing some massive shots on vitali that night and he just walked through them.
as for the cut thing, if the fight had been in ireland vitali would of won. it WAS a technicallity.
as i've said vitali inside 7...
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I salute his disposition.
David beat Goliath living or dying by the weapon he was most skilled with, his sling shot.
Now Haye gets the chance to do the same.
Take it away Theodore....
" ...attempting Mighty Things, you will often be halted by failures. Better though to try with all that is in you than not do so.
For those that Do try the seemingly impossible, win or lose, they will never dwell in that dim twilight that knows niether victory or defeat. "
Theodore Rosevelt
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Vitali was always perceived to be the weaker of the two brothers before Wlad's chin was exposed and Vitali proved supremely competitive against Lewis.
You look at Vitali's record though and you've gotta ask the question, who exactly has he beaten to be so feared? Especially in recent years. Corrie Sanders? Danny Williams? Sam Peter? Butterbean?
There's barely been a realistic threat, an obstacle capable of offering something different to anything but a human punchbag.
Let's face it, Vitali has his formidable reputation and is best known for his performance of a lifetime in a fight he still lost. Lewis, as a big guy already, was always sluggish when carrying too many pounds and came in his 2nd heaviest weight ever that fight (10 pounds heavier than he was when Rahman beat him!). His poor condition made Vitali look better than he was and the latter was still gassing horribly when it was stopped.
Can he produce anything near as intense a performance 6 years later when he's closing in on his 38th birthday? Sam Peter sure didnt answer any questions about Vitali's quality on returning, producing one of the worst performances i've ever seen in a championship fight.
Comparing Vitali to Wlad, Vitali's is a much easier target to hit which can only be a good thing when talking about Haye's power. Vitali is also more robotic and hasnt the supreme quality of jab his brother possesses - Haye definitely doesnt have to do as much work to land.
The negative for Haye ...Vitali's intelligence, chin like iron and great power in both fists. But can he land cleanly on an opponent with better speed and reflexes than anyone he's faced in years, someone who can actually hit back hard (something Byrd couldnt do)?
We'll see..
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And ironDirkDiggler referring to Lolenga Mock to dismiss Haye's punch resistance and chances is as completely worthless as using Rustico Torrecampo as a means to write off Manny Pacquiao in every fight he's fought since.
It's futile.
Same goes for Thompson because that one loss was all about Haye's naivety in conditioning and seeking out a 1st round knockout (and i've barely seen a more one-sided round or two) against a seasoned survivor than anything else.
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fr4s3r-arab88
Technicality or not, the record books state a win for Lewis. Lewis was coming back into the fight at that stage and Klitschko had pretty much punched himself out, he was breathing out of his bum basically.
I'm not sure what you mean about the fight being allowed to continue if in Ireland..? Fact is the WBC belt was up for grabs so had WBC rules in place... So not quite sure what you're getting at...
What price a Hatton/Haye double up... both by KO... hmmmm!
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Lets also remember that when Lewis fought Vitali, he did precious little to get out of the way of any of Vitali's punches. It was one of Lennox's poorer displays and he was tagged frequently but Vitali never managed to put him away.
Klitschko doesn't have anything like the speed of Haye and I don't think there is much difference in power, the only disadvantage I can see for Haye is in terms of physical size - a factor which Manny Pacquiao made a mockery of in dismantling De La Hoya.
Klitschko is probably a worthy favourite on the fact he is the experienced heavyweight, but assuming Haye will get a pasting is an extremely naive stance. David will be ready for Vitali and I don't think Vitali has fought as classy a boxer and as good an athlete as Haye for some time.
If he doesn't assert himself on Haye quickly and keep him at distance with the jab, I think he will very quickly find himself struggling against a much slicker opponent.
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coxy0001
i know that i was speaking in generalities...irish rules would of went to the scorecards.
not only does haye haye a much weaker chin and leave himself wide open, he'll probably go in about 3stone lighter and 4 inches shorter.
what do you think he can use to beat vitali??
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Haye will use reflexes. Ideally he should be harder to hit at heavy than he was at Cruiser. We didnt really see that against Barrett because the latter's fairly swift for a heavy and basically adopted an ungainly bull-rush tactic to land what he did whereas Vitali will fight with his brain and be happy to fight at a distance - that suits Haye better.
Haye guard isnt strong. He does hold his hands dangerously low but I disagree he leaves himself more open than Vitali. Vitali's not like his brother - he's very easy to hit, especially now.
Look at the stance he had against Sam Peter. Front on, hands extremely low with ponderous reflexes.
It was crying out for a fighter with speed to use a feint or some head movement to make Vitali miss and punish him.
..What we got was a fighter who made a tortoise look like Usain Bolt, a guy who just stood there and ate up punishment time after time, using his face a punchbag.
Vitali's gonna need some swift sparring partners because facing off against the likes of Sam Peter and Danny Williams is no preparation for someone who matches speed with punching ferocity like Haye - who at his best (and not headhunting as againt Barrett) can throw big punches in bunches.
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Apart from taking a sledgehammer into the ring, he's probably going to have to rely on getting him out of there with one of his big bombs. I think the one thing we know for certain is that it won't be going to the scorecards!
Haye will start running his mouth and i think Vitali may well engage in a slug fest with him, if he can get Vitali coming forwards and being a bit wild i do have Haye to catch him with something big enough to put him down.
What ever happens it won't be dull!
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"The Dangerous Danny Williams"
I laughed. Alot.
Williams is nothing in comparison to Haye.
But i do think Vitali wont be toppled by David, but if Haye can evade Vitali's lumbersome punches and put in Calzaghe-esque speed and work-rate he'll be in for a chance on the score-cards.
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My god ironDirkDiggler, I think a plentiful amount of savalon is required for those fingertips.
Although you make many a good argument for Klitschko, your obvious dismissal of any of Hayes positives shows an awful bias against him.
And what you seem to miss however, is that what Haye is doing has been done many times before. Playing the role of the loud-mouth, cocksure braggard, in total contrast to the astute, and resevred Klitscho. I'm pretty sure each fighter is more than happy to run with this, as it gets people talking about the fight, which is obvious from your threads, and gets people watching, as Im sure you'll be paying your £15 come the summer.
So let the panto play out and we can reflect with hindsight afterwards.
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Dirk, just stop with the hating.
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Haye has better speed and if he works the body well for the first five rounds could tee up the KO in about 8/9.
VK is perhaps past his prime but has the necessary nous at heavyweight to control fights.
Haye is brash I agree but don't knock a trier.
Better to have big ambitions than a certain JC who took 10 years to unify a division.
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Anyone leaving negative comments about Haye completely miss the point of the bloke. Regardless of winning or losing he is getting people to sit up and take notice of boxing, particularly at Heavyweight, which badly needs it. Even if you dislike the guy you can't deny that you would still watch the fight, hoping to see him get knocked out.
I think Haye is great for the sport and would love to see him beat Vitali, however I think it is the wrong Klitschko at this stage. Haye is too prone to look for the knockout and that approach would have been much more affective against Wlad. Here's hoping though - Pac-man just showed us what a faster, smaller opponent can achieve when they get it right!
Oh and Diggler - so VK took on the 'dangerous' Johnson, Sanders and er, Williams? These would be the same guys that you would describe as one-dimensional and untalented had it been Haye taking them on I presume...you describe those as risks and Haye as a confidence trickster? So would you deny that VK is the hardest fight he could have possibly taken? Not many contradictions there then.
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Forgot to mention - 'Haye can't get into Ring magazine'
Haye isn't in because he CHOSE to relinquish his Cruiserweight crown and CHOSE to move to Heavyweight. If you actually read the magazine you'd also see articles in the last two issues talking Haye up in a very positive way and calling him the man to excite and revitalise the division.
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Two words for Haye's Success against Vitali.
Are you ready? Kevin Rooney!(Not that I dont beleive in Adam Booth)
Remember him? trained the awesome Mike Tyson way back when Tyson was the hardest to hit hard hitting heavyweight on the earth? Head movement quick steps to get under the jab and bang to the body and bring up those trademark devastating uppercuts. Very effective aginst taller opponents like Toney Tucker . This is what Haye needs for this fight. its all about strategy....Vitali is not an impossible prospect. An immensely difficult one but I beleive Haye can shock his critics once again.
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Rooney is pretty much past it these days though...and post-Tyson never had the same level of success.
I appreciate the sentiment though, and yes Haye needs to use his biggest advantage well - his speed, both of hand and foot.
He's certainly not going to be fearful, and that's one strong mark in his favour.
Win or lose though, Haye can make big money in this fight and show all those heavyweight that prefer to back their way into title shots by default how it's done. If more guys did this, the division wouldn't be so moribund.
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All credit to both fighters for agreeing to take eachother on. Far too many of the fights today are hand picked, dodged or dare I say fixed.
As for the fight, I see Vitali wearing Haye down and stooping him around round 7 or 8. I don't think that Haye carries the power to stop Vitali and when he lands his hardest punch on Vitali and Vitali takes it then Haye is gonna have to think of something else!
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Haye to steamroll Vitali deffo.. but in the case of a shock win for vit then i don't think much harm would be done just abit of lost pride. Just wanted to say i hope Holyfield gets destroyed in his next fight
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David Haye is a Heavyweight!! Cruiserweights are heavyweights. The introduction of that division has stripped the heavyweight division of its lean, quick fighters. How heavy was Joe Louis, Ken Norton and Jack Dempsey?
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Danny Williams was indeed dangerous. He destroyed Tyson in a slugfest shootout. You hurt me...I hurt you....etc.
Boxing Monthly felt he was dangerous. The bookies felt he was dangerous. And he was dangerous until he got hit and was floored. After that the danger trickled down his nose and onto his pants.
As for Harrison "destroying" Williams..sure, he did that AFTER Vitali had destroyed him. Once he had taken that beating it would have been easy enough to beat him. Too much damage.
People talk up Hayes "reflexes"......they also forget that reflexes, if indeed Haye has them, burn energy like nobodies business. All that bending at the waist and pulling back to avoid shots burns energy.
And lets face it, David aint exactly Iron Dirk Kuyt when it comes to the energy levels, now is he.
In boxing, the man who dictates distance will also dictate the pace. The man who sets the pace will win the fight. Klitschkos superior jab and height advantage will allow him to do this. He has a power advantage too. He is strong and can wear David out in the clinches.
David has a "punchers chance" but is he really any more of a "puncher" than Lewis or Sanders??? Is he really any faster or more explosive than Sanders??? I dont think so.
Also, Sanders and Lewis used long straight shots, the like of which David does not have, to be effective vs Klitschko.
David is more of a hooking fighter. He has a fast right but it is only fast for a few rounds and it is not as long as Lewis right or Sanders left.
Sure, Klitschko is 37...but there is no comparison to ODLH. Oscar has been a part time fighter for 5 years. Klitschko is full time, when he is active. To mention nothing of the fact that Manny Pac is light years ahead of David Haye anyways.
Peace.
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At 12:58pm on 16 Dec 2008, bagandgloves wrote:
Forgot to mention - 'Haye can't get into Ring magazine'
Haye isn't in because he CHOSE to relinquish his Cruiserweight crown and CHOSE to move to Heavyweight. If you actually read the magazine you'd also see articles in the last two issues talking Haye up in a very positive way and calling him the man to excite and revitalise the division.
**********************************
Thats right. And 5 years ago they had....Joe Mesi, Dominic Guinn and somebody else to revitalise the division....their esteemed editor, an utter plonker called NIGEL COLLINS, said that Golota would be outjabbed by Michael Grant because, and wait for it...."Grant has longer arms".
When Grant and Golota fought, Golota outjabbed him all night long, before he quit, of course.
Ring magazine also had Michael Grant as the "most underrated fighter" and had Wlad Klitschko as "the most overrated fighter"
Well we all know what panned out there.
Ring Magazine, in August of 2000, I believe, also ran an article which pilloried white fighters, making a laughing stock of them.
We all know what has happened since 2000.
It seems Ring Magazine are full of the proverbials.
But boxing monthly are not far behind. Get back to me if you want more on that.
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I think iron what his face knows nothing about boxing. Show me your credentials. Anyway don't want to knock the Klits brothers as they are god fighters. But Vitali is only ruling now as the heavy div is devoid of good competition. I don't think will win on paper, but that ain't boxing. The unexpected is the real prize in boxing. Look at rachman vs lewis. Heavy weights you always have a chance if you can bang and Haye can bang. So it would interesting. And iron face , east european or german same thing really, GOD the SAVE THE QUEEN. Well maybe not yours!
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I am sick of hearing about all these great British boxers Carl who , Amir who . But I like David Haye and hope he will finally give bbc a creditable champ to write about . If Carl thinks the purse will be split 70 30 the fight will never happen Jermain has been in with the best , his name will get the fans in . Carl beat a no one to get his paper belt . amir has a glass jaw , no matter how good his defence gets he will go down against qaulity ' . Woods vs Tarver over hyped destroyed . Lockett vs Pavlik dismantled . Good in Britain bums on the big stage
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I think fair play to David Haye, I dont particuly like the bloke, but he is British and could be good for the heavyweight division. As for him being a thug and a lout, does that not remind you of a former undisputed heavyweight champ that use to go round biting peoples ears off !
He cant be accused of ducking a fight, and if it doesnt pay off, fair play he had a go !
I think he knows what he wants and goes after it, whether hes good enough or not we will have to wait till next summer to see.
Personally if he doesnt get caught, I fancy Haye to win on points, knocking Klitschko out is a big ask, but with his speed and power he should be able to trouble him for 12 rounds.
Next year could be a good year for British boxing, and with a bit of luck a couple more British World Tiltle Holders.
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Just finished reading the thread and would side with the diggler for most of it (not going to go over all the points, it would be near essay length).
Few points I want to chip in on:
Age - Older fighters do better at heavyier weights e.g. Foreman winning the title at 44, the fact Holyfield is still allowed to box (a serious accident weighting to happen - and I really hope I'm wrong on that one, but the guy shouldn't be allowed to fight) or even the average age of champions e.g. Tyson being champion at 21 is an achievement for any division, but what makes it so impressive is it was at an age when most heavyweights are still putting the weight on to have a career later. Klitschko is definetly not an ODLH waiting to happen, the Peter fight showed he still has the power and at least a reasonable degree of fitness (He did have to punch Peter after all). Also, as mentioned elsewhere Vitali typically controls fights he is in and has never been one for large energy expenditure so I dont see that as an issue. (Haye will be expected by all to have a higher workrate than Vitali whatever the outcome - its one of Haye's strenghts of course and even Vitali's biggest fans aren't going to compare him to a Ray Leonard in style)
Knock out - Vitali does have a supremely impressive chin, but unless he's actually a cybernetic creation he can be knocked out ( though I dont see Haye knocking him out). Some arguments on here seem to suggest a Haye knockout is impossible, but at heavyweight thats a bit ridiculous (More so than anyother weight a loss to a 'journeyman' at heavyweight is forgiveable because it can happen in 1 punch, which is much rarer in lighter divisions).
As for the fight I'd put my money on Vitali; he's about the only heavyweight I think is above Haye's level right now and in an ideal world I'd want to see him square off against Wlad, Chagaev or Valuev before Vitali as it smacks of 'too much, too soon'. Also if Haye does win it pretty much saps the life back out of the heavyweights as what big matchup then remains? If he does beat Vitali I doubt I would be too bothered about subsequent fights with the other Eastern block fighters (except maybe Valuev for the pure novelty)
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@IrishWhipLash
You are being a bit hasty.
Yes, Haye has the right complexion and the right connexion to win a place in the heart of the British PC Public, but Calzaghe and Hatton is some good fighters.
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And there was me thinking you'd knackered your keyboard irond!
Not sure how you can argue that Klitschko is now back to his physical best, having spent 4 years out and then come back against Peters (who put in one of the worst displays i've ever ever seen from a supposed champ!) isn't really a decent yard-stick to measure against, is it? Do we know if Vitali still has the reactions to nullify Haye and wear him down? Nope, we don't.
For me the tougher fight for Haye could well be against Wlad, more so his rocket-propelled piston of a jab. I just have this inkling that Vitali could well show his age at 37 against a much faster opponent.
p.s. irond, can you leave your vitriol for Ring Magazine off the forum? Plenty of critics have called matchups wrong in the past, or have you indeed called every single boxing match right? Must be a rich man by now?!
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@DribblingBarnes....
Yes...a lot of that makes sense to me.
Just one thing- Haye does not, has not, and never will, set or be comfortable with a fast pace.
As for Vitali being the only one at Hayes level, that is reaching, at best.
I think Haye knows that the more naturally cautious Wladimir will give him absolutely no target to aim at and will simply jab him to death.
So he thinks he has a chance against Vitali, and is using his Al-Quaeda fotos to rush the big lad into a mistake.
Foolish David.
Vitali has one thing his brother does not have- a very very mean streak. Watch these fights for proof of it- Spinelli, Ismael Youna, Hide, Sanders, Belinski....
He just blasted on those guys when it was obvious that they were finished. He didnt let them off the hook, he would hit them when they were trying to quit, he mocked Hide when he went down, asked him to get back up and fight on!!!
Vitali is mean. Haye knows that but its too late now.
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At 2:33pm on 16 Dec 2008, coxy0001 wrote:
And there was me thinking you'd knackered your keyboard irond!
Not sure how you can argue that Klitschko is now back to his physical best, having spent 4 years out and then come back against Peters (who put in one of the worst displays i've ever ever seen from a supposed champ!) isn't really a decent yard-stick to measure against, is it? Do we know if Vitali still has the reactions to nullify Haye and wear him down? Nope, we don't.
For me the tougher fight for Haye could well be against Wlad, more so his rocket-propelled piston of a jab. I just have this inkling that Vitali could well show his age at 37 against a much faster opponent.
p.s. irond, can you leave your vitriol for Ring Magazine off the forum? Plenty of critics have called matchups wrong in the past, or have you indeed called every single boxing match right? Must be a rich man by now?!
********************************
Anybody can be wrong.
But when you are consistently wrong for all the wrong reasons then you deserve criticism.
Max Kellerman is a classic example.
They have a thing known as "the curse of Max"...basically if Kellerman picks you to win, you will lose.
The thing is, Kellerman usually only picks a certain type of fighter, know wat I'm saying, Like????
Ring and Boxing Monthly have a lot of questions to answer. Would you like to see some more of the awful trash they have written as of late????
I could show you some bro....
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Listening to David Hayes interview it didn't sound like the usual confident David Haye it sounded like he was trying to convince himself what he has to do . All well and good when you r calling some one out , but now the fights on it's time to walk the walk . I think he is in with a chance vitali is ring rusty probably a good time for him to get in with vitali .Hang back early make Vitali chase him and come on after the fourth if he lasts that long , don't go out early and get into a close range fire fight , vitali is old he will fade . I would love to see haye win vitali is a stone faced Eastern european and brings nothing to boxing
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Iron DD,
To qualify my comment about Vitali being the only boxer clearly above Haye's level: right now I'd put Haye in with the other 3 Europeans, below that were talking Barrett level fighters so I definetly would not have wanted to see him fight a James Toney type as we'd learn nothing more. A fight against Wlad, Chaguev or Valuew would give us a clear indicator as to where haye fits into the heavyweights right now.
Agree with all that you say after that - for me the Klitschko's are very similiar fighter but Vitali maximises the mechanichal style to make it extremely difficult for those he fights against. For whatever reason (and I'm thinking the small size difference is the biggest differentiator) Wlad has looked more vulnerable for exactly the same reasons.
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As a reader of the former i probably know what you're going to mention, whilst i don't agree with some of the stuff written it's like any other magazine - full of opinions, i don't get overly offended by people being wrong even if they are talking nonsense.
On a side issue, just heard Mosely is being investigated by the WBC for being a naughty boy with drugs, putting the Margarito matchup in jeapordy. Was the first big fight of the year, best still ruddy happen.
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Re Mosely
Well if he is guilty a fight with Margarito sounds like punishment enough for me. Dont get me wrong, 'Sugar' Shane used to be a great fighter, but thats definetly in the past and after Margarito's defeat of Cotto its difficult to see anyone touching him right now.
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According to Compubox, Klitschko threw as many punches vs Sam Peter as he had in any other fight.
So he is well able to keep throwing them. He also showed some good movement. Taking time off can be good for the reflexes- like a bodybuilder- time off can make the body grow.
Its not like he is a Bernard Hopkins, totally skilled but only able to fight in spurts and bursts.
Au contraire, he is less skilled, more active and well able to throw a heavy arm punch where other fighters would prefer to set themselves and miss with a "proper punch"
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Mosley was on the list of the BALCO Athletes along with "Evan Fields"........now who does that sound like and all???
During the first Wright fight, when Wright was winning, Jack Mosley was heard to say to Shane "You are still strong, thats just in your head Shane..."
So..make your own minds up.
I think he should be retrospectively stripped if found guilty.
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dribblingbarnes: The only fighter i could see beating him (Margarito) is the guy that already has been him, namely Paul Williams. I nearly spat my coffee when Skysports mentioned Froch being the most dodged and ducked guy in boxing, pah! Since he dismantled Maragarito no-one wants to come near him, for a ruddy good reason too!
I think the main reason why Vitali threw so many punches against Sam Peters is that because the guy was standing there waiting to be hit. Remember Glenn Mac getting rather annimated about how idol he was. Not sure we can read too much into compubox on this occasion.
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For starters I must address this;
"Haye is not a fighter in the proper sense of the term. He is, as Lord Bullingdon once referred to the eponymous Barry Lyndon as in Kubricks 1975 classic, "little more than a common opportunist". "
Amusing, a seemingly well educated human being with a good grasp of the English language and this is what it amount's to. It's a shame the content doesn't match the construction, what a load of drival.
As for the fight, well, wrong brother put simply. The best Haye can hope for is a decision because let's be frank he is not going to KO him. He needs to go in super fit, make Vitali move and if he can last the first five he has got a decent chance. The main advantage Haye has got is speed, he must also compensate for the weight and power defiency with workrate.
All those saying Haye should use his jab to keep him away and then dart in and out with combos are well off mark. Have you not seen the size of the Ukranian?
A monster, of which the great Lewis struggled to tame let alone a good cruiserweight with a clear size difference.
To draw on a commonly used phrase originally taken from boxing, he is quite literally punching above his weight with this one. Too much too soon but that should take nothing away from his gung ho approach to tackling any opponent. He ducks no one, no melodramatics, simply, I want him make it happen.
A breath of fresh air to the sport and for the sake of the monotonous heavyweight division I hope he wins. He has got a chance for sure, Vitali is very dangerous but is by no mean's one of the great's in the division. Haye just needs to ride the early storm and wait for him to tire, the first big hit he takes will be the teller and personally can't see him being to handle it, certainly not the full twelve anyway.
Head say's Vitali to win by KO within eight, heart goes with a decison after the full twelve for Haye. It would be nice to have a British boxer at the very pinnacle of the sport again.
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Coxy-
Had basically forgotten about Williams if I'm honest but your spot on with both points.
Froch definetly not the most ducked man in boxing, dont know if thats based on JC or in general but the reasons Froch has difficulty fighting the big names is similiar to Calzaghe back in the day: its the other fighter bringing the majority of the purse in, they have more to lose rep wise and its a good opponent their faceing so pretty much goes down as a boing no-brainer for a fight to duck (but its not ducking due to Froch's ability).
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I hope for Haye's sake that, for whatever reason, Vitali 'gets old' overnight and his punch-resistance isn't anything like it was when he fought Lewis.
His best chance is to do a 'Pacman' and use his speed and agility to get in and then out again, ASAP.
Otherwise, Haye's mouth is going to write a cheque his body can't cash...
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People still dont get it.
Everybody wants a title shot.
Not everybody wants to earn it.
Haye wants a quick in and an even quicker out.
Haye is thus "a common opportunist". Win a cruiser title, talk some crap, do the Ken Bigby routine, get your title shot, keep talking rubbish about people being afraid, fight nobody, get the title shot....keep talking...get beaten, and disappear with your money.
A Common Opportunist. My Lord, I Express It!!!!!
He does not want warmups for several reasons, none of which have anything to do with being brave, bold, dashing, bashing, crashing or otherwise.
1. He could lose them as well as win them, and then its all down the khazi anyways.
2. No warm up could ever prepare him for what he is facing in Vitali.
Vitali is not only physically the master of these chumps, but he is stylistically unique.
Haye and the Hypesters would want you to think that all he does is throw one-two and hold.
He throws combinations from angles, sweeping upper-hooks and hurtful lead left hooks.
Also, who ever said Haye had "fast feet"....his feet are not so fast.
Haye is no saviour. He is here to get his shot, get his money, have a crack at the lottery and then go back to Cyprus.
As fight fans, we should be wanting shut of him sooner than later.
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"As for Harrison "destroying" Williams..sure, he did that AFTER Vitali had destroyed him. Once he had taken that beating it would have been easy enough to beat him. Too much damage."
This is the same Danny Williams that, nearly two years before fighting Vitali, was destroyed in 6 rounds by Sinan Samil Sam after being decked 3 times. You may as well suggest that made it easier for Vitali too.
Not only did Danny come in overweight at 270lbs, still one of the highest weights of his career, the oddsmakers also had Vitali the firm 4-1 favourite to beat him. Doesn't look like they considered him all that dangerous.
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Cmon the hayemaker!!!
Knock out the old-timer Vitali then come give the IronDirkDiggler a beating too afterwards!!
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Iron DD,
Far as I can tell all your saying on Haye being an opportunist is true. Paticularly the not wanting to have too many warm up fights for fear of losing one (as said earlier, your more likely to get upsets at heavyweight than in anyother weight class due to the one punch factor).
However, there is a counter arguement of sorts to this.... being that the reason Haye can be so opportunistic because of the lack of talent at Heavyweight right now. Even if he was preaching the take it slow route the simple fact is their aren't many fights out their that would generate much excitement and we'd probably be looking at a title shot in 4 fights at the most e.g. as shocking as Peter was against Vitali he probably only needs 3-4 wins to be back in contention for another shot at a title. If Haye had stayed at Cruiserweight there was basically nowhere to go so the move has to be seen as logical even if you dont like the style in which it has been done. Another example is Holyfield waiting 6 fights for his first shot, well in the 90's people were already proclaiming the 'death' of the heavyweight division due to derth of talent (Hindsight seems to have the likes of Golota, Tua et al in a better light because if we thought they were bad we had no ideal what was coming), but there was obviously enough talent about that a former cruiserweight could step up and not demand a title shot so early. This is of course linked, the fact Holyfield made such a successful switch 'proves' the transition in weight class is possible, prior to Holyfield I dont remember a Cruiserweight stepping up as successfully (Moorer actually did a very good job around the same time/just before but he stepped up from LH- that and actually keeping a belt took 3 attempts. RJJ was a one off and linked to his supreme athleticism, which the brief spell at Heavy destroyed). Point is because people have seen it done before they'll fast track it next time around (If its too quick this time we'll find out). Put these factors together and yes haye may be seen as an opportunist, but I cant point at anyone and say "that guy's more deserving and is being cheated here" so its difficult to charge Haye with being purely opportunistic and not backed up by any talent.
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Hello All,
Now listen up IronDirkDiggler and the rest of you. Whether Haye wins or not (and i hope he does) what he is doing is a good thing for boxing. Right from the start he was a cocky black lad as fast with his tougue as he was with his hands and feet, ring any bells!!! Mohammed .....somebody.
Boxing NEEDS showmen just as much as it needs it's huge robot fighters. I love boxing always have, but the worlds all about advertising nowadays and boring boxers don't sell tickets. In six months time (or now if your Dirk) nations will either want:
Haye a champion
or
knocked out cos he's annoying
Good luck to him i say, at least he's a decent role model for kids.
Hey Ben Dirs..... is Dirkdiggler your first stalker??
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Ben Dirs should go back to doing late night RbR for the people who dont have a subscription.
Who cares about this "fast black kid".....
He aint that fast
He aint that black.
But he is a kid.....but he wont get the kid glove treatment...he will get a hiding.
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How many Keyboards do you get through in a year Dirk?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
irond, after that last comment you have now revealed yourself to be nothing more than a spotty little 14 year old kid, such was the immaturity of that reply.
Is that all you've got as a comeback?!
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Well that last exchange kind of killed the thread. Time for the pub methinks....(working your notice period does have some advantages after all).
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"Who nevertheless had Haye down"
Was it a knockdown? No not even close so why mention it.
There's really no need to hype the size of the task ahead of Haye by mis-reporting the facts...
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KRONK08 - Guess who said this after the David Haye-Monte Barrett fight?
"He?s a quick heavyweight, but my speed told. He definitely came to win and put me down with a good shot.
"I expected to get knocked down and I did. That?s what you?re going to get with me in the heavyweight division. I might get down but I?ll get back up and I?ll do what I have to do."
Any guesses?
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Sorry about the question marks instead of apostrophes, that's what happens when you're too hasty...
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Jesus H, after reading all this, I now REALLY hope Haye absolutely demolishes Klitschko.
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ironDirkDiggler - Your impassioned cries of "people just don't get it" make me chuckle. You're like the David Brent of this blog. It's as if you're the only man who understands this murky world of boxing and everyone else is a fool.
The irony is, I'm not sure you really get it. As in, you don't get the point of David Haye. That point being he's EXCITING - he's fast, he knocks people out, he might get knocked out himself, he's got charisma. In short, people want to watch him, who cares how "good" he is? Remember the last time anyone looked forward to a heavyweight fight? No, neither can I. But people are looking forward to this one, just look at the amount of comments.
As for your literary quote, well, literary quotes only carry any weight if they make any sense. "A common opportunist"? You seem to have a deep knowledge of boxing, so I'm surprised you've failed to notice that boxers, more than any other sportsmen, are opportunists. Boxing is about timing and luck as much as it is about talent. And Haye's made his opportunities - in case you also didn't notice, he was undisputed cruiserweight champion. And I say again, he's EXCITING, people will want to see him fight Klitschko next summer. So what if he wants to get out after making a bit of money, he's the one getting his head pummelled by Vitali Klitschko, he can do what he likes after he's made a bit of cash for himself.
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physics will win this fight. look at the 2 largest proportioned fighters in the heavyweight division. Valuev 7ft giant, and danny williams 23 st lump. both of these fighters are technically very poor, if they did not have their physical attributes they would never have turned pro.
the fact that vitali will weigh in 3 stone plus heavier than haye means during clinches vitali will just lean on haye and sap all his energy from his legs.
if monte barrett can put haye down vitali shud go to town on him.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
David Haye has to be admired for going for the best heavyweight currently out there this early.
Vitali is the best currently out there. He would have been better going for the younger brother who looks easier to beat.
The trouble is that the heavy division is a mess at the moment with very little new tallent coming through, especially from the US.
The division is dominated by eastern europeans who have had a personality bypass.
No new talent is coming out of the states, but the big TV money is in the US, so they recycle Rackman, Holyfield time and time again for a shot at the title.
both of them are past their prime but as the are from the US and the networks want a yank fighting for the title they get another shot.
Haye is flash and confident and likes to mix it up so could be good for the division and would add some much needed colour to the division.
A few years ago he would have been an average size heavy but today he is tiny. Holyfield in his prime proved that need not be a problem.
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British Boxers have a tendency to Pad their records, and never take risks *cough*Calzaghe*cough*
But saying that, Haye is going way way too fast.
He should take his time
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Time schmime, why would Haye bore us all fighting some solid plank from the Eastern Bloc, who has as much movement as a tortoise tied to a pole by it's genetalia?
This is the only fight that the heavyweight division wants and more so needs. I can see Haye really winding him up and then all hell breaking loose once the bell goes, should be pretty special to watch.
The fact Vitali will come in X stone heavier doesn't make a swat of difference, you and others may not have noticed by Haye is one hell of an athlete. Strong, quick and built like the proverbial brick house! I've never really seen Vitali go after the body before when someone comes in close, there won't be a 'jockying/muscling' for position to throw punches i.e. what Hatton does and does very well.
Both have power, Haye has the speed but Vitali has the chin. Can Haye last 12 rounds at a pace? Can Vitali cope with Haye's speed? I don't want 'Haye will get battered' because you don't have a crystal ball, who on earth gave Holyfield a chance against Tyson (another natural cruiserweight against the supposed 'best').
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IDD - Not quite sure where your anger stems from?
If you feel that Haye doesn't deserve his shot, then be angry with VK for accepting the fight. Likewise, you could argue what did VK do to get his shot a SP after 4 years out?
Although VK was a former champ, does that give him more right over Haye whose belts are more current?
VK got the fight against SP as there was nothing else of interest out there. Is this not the same for Haye.
As for Haye not being able to get into Ring Magazine, it appears from your subsequent comments that you don't rate it anyway so what's the point.
Consistency is the key.
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Personally, I don't think Klitschko is a good enough heavyweight - merely an average fighter in a division that is and has been very, very poor since Lewis retired. David Haye has got good boxing skills and may prove to be just that bit sharper on the night and pull off a points victory. Granted, if he gets caught with a big right hand from Klitschko then its game over as I don't see a knock-out the other way.
It irks me though when a view is given how Klitschko, in as many words, retired Lennox Lewis. Lets remember, when both of them fought, Lewis looked out of sorts and unprepared for the event and weighed in far too heavy. He then adopted an uncharactoristic sluggers approach from the off and got completely out-boxed for the first 4 rounds, in which it should be noted that Vitali did show some good boxing skills. Lewis however won rounds 5 and 6 and had Klitschko reeling on the ropes after a hard punch with 8 seconds remaining in the latter round , one more good blow and an extra minute on the clock would have signalled a knock-down and possible knock-out. Does it matter that Klitschko was ahead when the fight was stopped? Lewis was never defeated in his whole career in bouts that went the distance.
I believe Lewis lost his enthusiasm at the end of his career, and this allowed Klitschko to look good against him.
Now at a similar age to Lewis, we can only wait to see if Klitschko has the fitness and desire to go a good hard 12 rounds against an opponent who will be fitter, sharper and who is a handy boxer himself.
I take Haye to win on points.
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Once again, people not getting it.......Haye is a gym made athlete, Klitschko was born with his talents.
There are 2 sides to the Lewis-Vitaly story, the facts, as I see them, are as follows
1. Lewis took the fight on short notice.
2.Klitschko took the fight on shorter notice.
3.Lewis had prepared for someone other than Vitali.
4.Vitali had prepared for someone other than Lewis.
5. Vitali was cut by a legitimate punch.
6. Vitali had won the majority of the rounds.
7. In keeping with sporting tradition, Vitali should have been given 3 more minutes at the end of the final round to get Lewis out of there before the fight was called off. He did not get these.
8. Lewis was totally exhausted when they called the fight.
9. Lewis quit at the top. The fact of the matter is that he DID NOT fancy Vitali for a 2nd go around.
10. Lewis unsportingly procrastinated for far too long and did the division no favours.
11. Vitali, by beating Sanders and Johnson, inherited the Linear crown and the Ring Title.
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irondirkdiggler, you do make me smile.
Haye has always been a boxer, Vitali started off fighting as a kickboxer. You can't learn to hit with the natural power that Haye has, the fact he's stopped someone every time he's won (and beaten everyone there is to beat at cruiserweight) says it all.
From memory Lewis was supposed to fight some randomer (his name i can't remember), but they had to pull out and Vitali stepped in as he was #1 contender and he was on the undercard anyway.. so both fighters would have been at the same stage of preparation...
And Lewis quit because he was 37 and didn't want it anymore, in a ring with any heavyweight is a dangerous place to be when you can't get the adrenaline going. Having won (winning is winning, even on a technicality) he'd beaten everyone there was to beat.
Under WBC rules there is no mention of giving a guy a sporting 3 minutes, if the doctor thinks that it's too bad too continue (for fear of causing permanent eye damage) then they instruct the ref to call the fight off. Imagine if he didn't see a monstrous hook coming in, got flattened and got seriously hurt?
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Good luck to Haye but IMO he is jumping in head first when he could find his feet first. He should take on a couple of good heavyweights. Someone like Rahman just to get used to this weight. I dont see the rush hes in to take on Vitali and Wlad. I admire him for it but he may just be doing this all too quick and will live to regret it. Having said that he could clean up the division and go on to be a great and he certainly has the talent and guts so heres hoping he takes the division by storm.
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Who else could Haye fight at heavyweight that would generate any interest, and lets not kid ourselves, that is what boxing is all about. I do think he should have gone for Wladimir first as I have always thought that Vital is a much better fighter and Wlad is easier to put down and lacks any sort of finishing instinct. However, good look to Haye, I hope he does it as the heavyweight division has been too stale for too long.
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David Haye is an amazing breath of fresh air to boxing, specifically British boxing and World Heavyweight boxing.
He may be an arogant loud mouthed cocky ****, but if I had to choose Boxing with or without David Haye, I certainly know what I would choose.
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I think "You just don't get it" is definitely ironyD's favourite quote!
Out of interest IronD.. who do you think "deserves" a title shot?
Regarding the "common opportunist" talk, Vitali is only doing the same by facing Haye early. This way Haye is still new to the division, very vulnerable and Vitali has a chance to brighten a legacy that so far has only one notable event that includes losing to Lewis.
I think you could probably flip a coin to decide this fight if Haye gets past round 3.
I do hope Haye gets a shot at Valuev win or lose Vs Vitali, would be very interesting to watch!
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As i have already said i really cannot see how Haye can beat Vitali.
there is only 1 formula that he can use, and that is the RJJ way when he beat Ruiz back in 2003.
Roy jones gave away 4 inches in height and just over 10% body weight. comparable to the stats between vk and haye.
RJJ never allowed himself to be put on the ropes (unlike in the calzaghe fight) and set the pace from the centre of the ring.
Haye has an outside chance if he can do this, but both his hand and footspeed need to oncrease if he wants to take down this Ukraine giant.
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@-Michael 1986
why would Haye Valuev be a spectacle?
Valuev has fought smaller than haye and lost.
chagaev is only 6"1.
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I just think Haye from round one would be more aggressive than Chagaev was in his fight with Valuev and would be interesting to see what happens!
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What is the difference between this fight and say ODLH v Pacman, Holyfield v Tyson, Hatton v Tyszu etc? If you go on the bookies odds (as a measurement) then the underdog in boxing has prevailed more times that you could shake a stick at.
Sure, there are reasons 'on paper' why in certain matchups one of the guys is not fancied, but wasn't Douglas something stupid like 40/1 to beat Tyson...? Haye will be much shorter (15/8? 2/1?) odds, for people who are clouded by their obvious hatred (irondirkdiggler) for him can't and more so wont't, look at the bigger picture.
God i hope Vitali goes down and stay down,
bring on the diggler bashing!
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IronDD - the point about Ring magazine wasn't about the accuracy of the articles, it was on the accuracy of your comment that Haye couldn't get in it.
The debate the fight has generated shows the interest from boxing fans and this is credit to Haye alone for making that happen. Boxing is a strange sport in that you rarely find people being positive about fighters. There's always criticism and it makes you wonder what enjoyment some people get from the sport, look at Calzaghe - he's a British fighter retiring unbeaten having fought Eubank, Reid, Kessler, Hopkins and Jones Jr yet still gets nothing but stick for not fighting bigger names. Jones himself said in the build up to their fight that he refused to fight Calzaghe in his prime because he was too big a risk and Hopkins did the same. How can you criticise a fighter for not taking fights when it's the other boxer that won't make it happen.
Personalities make the sport what it is and regardless of how you regard Haye's talents, boxing would be dull without people like him around.
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At least Haye is making all the right noise about wanting to clean up the division.
As someone who loves boxing, I cannot watch the heavyweight division at the moment as the 'talent' is simply shocking.
Haye brings a fresh sense of a brash heavyweight who will look to dominate for years (hopefully!)
The Klitchko's realise his threat so Vitali has stepped in for obvious reasons. Granted he is still a dangerous fighter but age and inactivity has a bad way of catching up with you....ask De La Hoya!! For once he is fighting someone who can move, jab and of course bang with both hands. Who knows what will happen when Haye connects.....
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Frustrates me when people say 'its too early, he should get in there with average fighters, knock them out, build up his record, then go for the big fights'
Haye has to move fast as Vitali is getting old, he doesn't want any excuses come June that Vitali was to old...Haye deserves alot of credit for doing this as many fighters dodge the big fights in place of building up there unbeaten record...Respect goes to Haye, and im positive that he'll be victorious...! ! Speed over power anyday...Oh wait, Haye has both!
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who is irondirkdiggler .just stop piping up with negatives all the time and come back when you have got a clue what your talking about !! i bet u have never boxed a round in your life (i have by the way ) !! come back when u have some knowledge about the game !!!!
HAYE FOR CHAMP !!!!!!
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IronD I'd love to spend a few rounds with you just to teach you a few home truths about boxing. People like you sniping from where? your office? make me sick. You understand nothing about the fight game, and nothing about boxers. Please get off the board so others can get a chance.
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'BBC Sport wrote:
KRONK08 - Guess who said this after the David Haye-Monte Barrett fight?'
Not sure I stand corrected to be honest.
Haye doesn't get a count, Barrett gets docked a point for throwing a punch after the slip so yeah definitely a knockdown.
The only thing I am clearer about is that you can just about disregard anything that comes out of Hayes mouth....
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johnedgar: I too also think irondirkdiggler is a pillock but...
Why use an online forum to offer someone to a fight? It smacks of immaturity mate and i'd rather not see this degenerate into comments you see below youtube videos.
Also i think nearly everyone here who comments during the day is in an office... Be it pro-Haye or nay-Haye. Do i make you sick for working in an office even though i've spent 25 years either following boxing or in my uni days involved in gym work with my boxing mates?!?
Ben, can you write a two blogs (around fight time) sizing up the chances for both Hatton and Haye against their respective opponents? No work would get done but this is much more entertaining than working
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Join the Davie Haye vs IronDirkDiggler club today!!!!!
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p.s. Bob Arum (Manny Pac's Promoter) has just announced the fight is near enough a certain to be on with Hatton, but won't be in England due to HBO pulling their weight...
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p.s.s. (sorry!)
FMJ has just offered Hatton a rematch...
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In reference to the various comments relating to the Lennox Lewis/Vitali Klitschko fight;
In my humble opinion (having watched the fight when it happened) Vitali was rightfully ahead on the judges cards when the fight was stopped. However, it was clear to any neutral that Lewis was starting to turn the fight around when the referee intervened due to the cuts suffered by Klitschko.
Whether this trend would have continued is anyone's guess - frankly we will never know who would have triumphed had the cuts not ended matters prematurely.
One final note; Lewis was evidently not in the best physical shape of his career when he entered the ring - whether this being due to lack of preparation (and not taking his opponent seriously - a bad Lewis habit) or just age is hard to know.
This is not to take away from the fact that Klitschko is a talented fighter. But I do not regard him as being a contender for the top five heavyweights of the last 30 years....if he had been able to fight in a more competitive division I may have been proved wrong (and the fact that he was avoided in the early part of this century contributed to this general weakness in class opposition).
Klitschko does possess a granite jaw, good punch and decent stamina. Allied with great reach and command of the ring. However, he isn't the most exciting fighter to watch and the heavyweight division is desperately in need of somebody who can revive interest in it (after all, it was considered the premier division of boxing for many years).
Getting on to the topic of the Haye versus Klitschko showdown. I am inclined to disagree with Iron Diggler's continual insistance that Klitschko will destroy Haye.
The facts as I see them are:
1) The obvious failing Haye has is his chin. He has been floored on several occasions and knocked out by Carl Thompson. I do not think that he has weak punch resistance, rather that it is not world class. I would go as far to say that it is the only part of his armoury that isn't world class.
2) The weight and height advantage which Vitali carry along with ram-rod jab make him a strong favourite, added to the fact that he has never been floored (by bigger punchers than Haye).
3) It is hard to decifer whether Vitali is on the age slope or not
4) Vitali has only really been in with one class heavyweight in the form of Lewis (Sanders etal can not be considered class boxers - sorry, it's true)
5) Haye is inexperienced at the weight and going in against an athletic heavy who weighs around 18 stone.
6) The two fighters possess completely contrasting styles
On the basis of this very short list I think that this fight will be hard to call on first viewing.
My prediction is that Klitschko will win late as Haye will throw everything at him and realise he isn't going to knock him out. He will tire, and Klitschko will knock him out in the last 3 rounds. Ultimately Vitali's punch resistance coupled with his reach advantage will prove the two weapons which will indirectly undo Haye.
Could be wrong.....
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Regardless of like or dislike I think the man has a chance.
Further more should he upset the odds it is what the boxing world needs, Heavy weights who come to fight.
I haven?t read all of IDD's posts but Haye does represent the British culture of today. Is that his fault though?
Ricky Hatton was very good friends with Bernard Manning who had, at times, be labeled racist. Does that make Ricky Racist by proxy? How about the yob culture that follows him to Vegas and boos the national anthem of America while playing music that refers to the dam busters (anti-German ergo, racist) and swigging beer? Does that make Ricky a yob by proxy?
The picture in the link is in bad taste IMO but there are boxers who've done and said worse.
Granddad Hopkins for one, he's proud of his jail drug dealing background and is openly racist.
IDD I think your problem is with the culture of the UK and not with boxing or Haye as an individual.
The division needs Haye to win and impressively. PPV figures are higher and more frequent for cage fights nowadays.
Go on the Brit knock his head off!! (sorry am I being yobbish and racist?)
I think Haye will have too much and have it too quickly for Vitali to deal with. His young brother would, IMHO stand no chance and Vitali is stepping in to protect his family?s income.
Vitali on the seat of his pants before the 6th, back into retirement.
Wladimer a few more really boring cash generation mandatory defenses, (or a show down with a 46 year old.) then knocked out by Haye.
I think Haye is cocky, he?s a fighter he?s got to be.
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I may be wrong about this, but wasn't Haye ranked by all the organisations at #3 as soon as he stepped up from cruiserweight? So the question marks over whether he deserved a shot would be null and void.
The whole point of Haye v Klitschko is no-one really knows what's going to happen, Haye has fought twice at heavyweight and taken them both out in record time (figure of speech for you pedants out there) but we don't know how he will perform against a higher pedigree.
Speaking of Klitshko's pedigree, aside from a fading Lewis, who has he fought who could be considered top class? He's benefitted from circumstance, if he was around at the Holyfield/Lewis/Tyson triumvate in it's prime he would have been dismantled.
So the result is way up in the air, how anyone can definitely say Haye will be destroyed I'll never know. Besides, hasn't anyone seen Rocky IV? ;)
And regarding the Hatton v Mayweather rematch, please don't take it Ricky! You can't fight at 147, it's just not in your make up, be happy in being the king at 140 and take on Manny, that's the fight to see.
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People can say what they want about the "Class" of fighter Vitali has been in with. Fact is he has defeated at least 3 Former Hvy Wt Champions- Sanders, Sam Peter and Herbie Hide. And a cruiserweight Champ in Orlin Norris. Not to mention several other guys who fought for the title, like Larry Donald.
We can argue about "class" till the cows come home.
Compare their resumes. Klitschko has the faaaaaar superior resume.
Also, Klitschko has fought a lot of guys like Haye.
Has Haye ever fought anyone like Klitschko? No.
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Oh yeah- and one more thing, people talk about the need to bring excitement and get the crowds back.
Let me ask you:- what fighter needed to do a 2-for-1 offer on tickets for his last fight???
David Haye.
Which fighter has SOLD OUT Madison Sq Garden, Staples Center, Mandalay Bay Las Vegas, The O2 World Arena Berlin???
Vitali Klitschko.
Haye talks about how "Boxing Needs And Wants Me"...and then has to give his tickets away.
He says how Klitschko is boring and nobody is interested...so how does he explain the dominant KO victories at these illustrious, packed out venues??
Haye talks some amount of nonsense.
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Class was mentioned because earlier the question had been raised about Haye's opponents in exactly the same way.
Mormeck was #1 in the division when Haye took him out, Maccarinelli was frequently talked about as the "next big thing" until he was smashed.
I don't think you can really say Sanders and Hide are similar to Haye, he has been watched for a long time because he offers qualities other heavyweights don't have - speed and movement as well as power. The heavyweight division has been full of great lumps who just stand and throw for too long. The Klitschkos managed to get to the top because they had half a brain cell between them and tried to add some technique, albeit limited.
It strikes me as funny that Klitschko (Vitali) is touted as "one of the best heavyweights in the past 20 years" considering when he first emerged he was torn apart from all quarters for heralding the end of the division. How opinions have changed despite him proving NOTHING is beyond me.
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Macca was NEVER the "next big thing" unless you regard the opinion of Jim Rosenthal and Enzo Calzaghe as being gospel. He had been dealt with by Lee Swaby and nearly done in first time out by Hobson. Thats hardly "next big thing" material.
Sanders was faster than either of Haye or Hide. If you really doubt that then ask around with the people in the know. Sanders was also left handed and taller than David. More problems, which it took Vitali all of 1 round to figure out.
David Haye IS ONE OF THE LUMPS WHO STANDS THERE AND DOES NOTHING!!!!
What is his punch output??? 12, 14 punches per round???
He waits, and waits, and waits for counterpunching opportunites.
But how do you counter a guy who is so far away and still peppering you with his shots?
Mormeck was a small fat man. 5'10" and David still managed to get floored. Come on...these guys have none of the power, height or reach of the Klitschkos. There is no comparison.
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Hey Dirs, get the lead out and moderate faster buddy.
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@nattieboy
Yes, Bernard is a low down man, quite the bad character, devoid of any sort of redeemable characteristics. He is foul and abject, and I am glad what Joe Cal done to him.
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On selling out arenas, I'm fairly certain that's more to do with the division itself than the fighter. I can't for the life of me remember a time where Klitschko has entertained me, but for Haye it's hard to remember a time he HASN'T.
However the heavyweight division still carries prestige despite the lack of talent, so whoever's deemed to be top of the heavyweight tree will still draw crowds. Cruiserweight is still generally seen as a catchweight or stepping stone and is probably in line with lightweight as far as it's pull goes, welter and middle being more popular.
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I think Haye will give Sanders a run for his money at heavyweight as far as speed goes. I agree that Haye can stand and throw when he needs to, however he has plenty of other tools in his locker depending on what's required.
Klitschko's "figuring out" of Sanders is hardly rocket science, a southpaw isn't difficult just because they're a southpaw, they have to make it awkward as well. Sanders' height in comparison to Haye's helped Klitschko rather than hindered him, it's harder to fight your normal fight against a small'un.
Anyway, I'm not saying that it is a cut and dry victory for Haye, what I'm saying is Klitschko has never truly been tested, and Haye is still cutting his teeth so it's very hard to call. If Klitschko is dominant and wins then I'll take my hat off to him, though it'll be another sad day for the division.
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@bangforyourbuck
did you find the Sanders, Johnson, Williams fights boring??
Did you find the Ismael Abdoul fight entertaining???
Please.....Klitschko has sold out the most illustrious venues in the business. No excuses.
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I'd actually forgotten about the Abdoul fight, well more like tried to repress that bilge. Ok I'll give you that one but the rest of the time the point stands.
And yes I did find those Klitschko fights boring. The way he boxes is just completely unattractive, though efficient in the current climate. Especially the Williams fight, never has a fight with so many knockdowns been less exciting, probably because it was more of an attempt by Williams to break the Guinness World Record of headbutting ring canvases than Klitshko's proficiency.
Are you seriously not acknowledging the division's draw as a factor in attendances? Could you sit there with a straight face and tell me he would get the same attraction if he was exactly the same type of fighter but in super-middleweight for instance?
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Best of luck to Haye
.....But I can imagine Klitchko leaning on him and pushing him around for 8 rounds or so and then picking him off. Hope its not a case of man against boy !!!
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ironDirkDiggler
Have you anything positive to say about Haye, more so anything negative to say about Vitali?! Or is this purely based on your complete dislike for Haye?!?
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Diggler you clearly don't know your boxing if you can't see that DH is actually trying to sell this fight...which can only be beneficial to VK. I don't think Vitali has a problem with Haye being a big mouth since he's gonna benefit from it.
Also the names you used to argument VK's professional record and pedigree is laughable. Sanders, Sam Peter and Herbie hide ??? I think the only fight VK got recognition from is the fight he lost against Lennox Lewis...
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Good luck to David Haye -- he'll need it. Klitschko by KO inside 2 rounds. You heard it here first.
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Has Vitali's No. 1 fan left yet? Is it safe to actually try to comment on the article and the fight without IronDirk crashing the party? Bloomin hell you'd think he was trying to prove himself as the editor of the Ring Magazine the way he's been going.
Look fella you can have your opinion on what you think's going to happen, which has been quite clear over the 30 or so posts you seem to have put up on this thread. But it is so biased its ridiculous.
Its a match-up between a guy who's only fought once in 4 years and a guy who's only just moved up to the Heavyweight division. There are 101 uncertainties when it comes to the average fight but when you include those facts you realise anything could happen. The fight hasn't even been signed yet and even if it was its still 6 months away - anything can happen in that time!
I see your points about Haye, he hasn't been tested at Heavyweight and he's shown frailties in the past e.g. against Thompson and even against Barrett. But although Vitali's proved himself to be a very tough fighter with a great chin he's hardly proved it over the past few years. Who's to know what will happen against a guy with a bit of speed and power? Peter certainly didn't provide any sort of test in their fight.
Once a fighter starts to lose his speed it goes rapidly and we have no idea how quick Vitali still is. Sure we'll get a better idea in his next fight but until that comes about how about letting Vitali down from that pedestal you've put him on so he can actually get the fight signed and then we can all see what happens in the ring between these two.
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When David Haye is able to sell out the O2 arena without having to give away tickets then get back to me and tell me how much of a draw the lad is.........
Anybody who was "bored" during the Johnson fight needs their head examined.
Klitschko basically walked the guy into the ropes and hit him until he stopped standing. Then he hit him some more for good measure.
HBO, not known for liking Klitschko, said it was a very impressive performance.
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iron d. just to clear up the "three more minutes thing" vitali was badly cut in the third, you're right though, he did not get his three more minutes-the fight was stopped after the sixth as i recall.he had 9 more minutes bro!
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Haye has not had a lot of ring experience with heavyweights, but he has had a lot of sparring with heavyweights, even while he was mainly at cruiser, including Danny Williams.
Dr Iron Fist is still the best though at HW. Also, most HW's are giving away height and lbs to the two brothers. If Vitali brings his A-game, I cannot see Haye lasting, his guard is often lazy, and Dr IF has heavy heavy hands.
However, Haye's drop in the Barret fight was more of a clotheshanger than a knockdown. Haye's balance was gone after a wild left hook that missed. But he doesn't mind hyping the knockdown, it adds more ppv's in the end.
Tyson used to beat the big guys by coming inside and lots of lateral movement, head weaving and slipping until POW. If Haye can slip the punches in a similar way, then I do think he's got a chance to do some damage. Oh, and Haye should avoid lurching in with the low body shots, he's useless at them and leaves himself massively exposed.
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I hear riddick Bowe is making a comeback! Is this how bad the top division has got?
Poor heavyweights trash talking and getting upset over boxing " sledging" mmmmmm, boy oh boy !
Where are the real fighters?
As much as I hope haye wins as I always do being a Brit, he may have bitten of more than he can chew in vitali, a bit like Tyson and evander........ Bad joke ! I'm here all wk boom boom
Hayes pace and work rate will be his only hope, he cuts easily and is suspect to a good shot.I feel vitali will stop him with one big shot!
I stood next to the guy at the world cup final in Berlin and saw firstvhand how awesome a size he is
Good luck David haye
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David haye will win it will be a hard fight but he will win on points wladimir he would stop he is nowhere as good and strong as his brother vitali.
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ironDirkDiggler you really dont like David Haye do you...
You seem to think he avoided everyone at Cruiser weight, when in reality he fought well above his ranking most of the time until he reached the title holder whom he faced. If it had been someone else he would have fought them, but it wasnt it was Mormeck, because he had beaten O'Neil Bell. He then went up against his fellow countryman because he knew that was a fight the public wanted to see. His dream is to win the heavyweight title, but you seem to think he should have hung around the Cruiser division and fought everybody before he stepped up, but we all know if you do that you will never step up as there is always a new challenger.
Haye is skillful, is exciting, does go against the biggest challenges and should be respected for that. What is more honest and honourable than always taking the biggest challenge in front of you on the way to your goals?
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@ irondirkdiggler
If Vitali is such big box office why has he only fought in Vegas once?
Your views aren't of a boxing fan but from someone who has issues (and the rest) with David Haye. The mere fact that you won't acknowledge Haye as a threat to Vitali is laughable, Haye has knocked every single guy out he's fought apart from he got knocked out himself (or punched himself out in a wild frenzy and couldn't throw anything back). The guy IS one of the biggest punchers around, i can't think of anyone else who can boast the record and the power he can.
Vitali has an awesome chin, but if he's getting smashed to pieces that won't save him from getting stopped by TKO..
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Coxy0001
1. He got KO'd by Thompson
2. He went the distance with Ismael Abdoul. Y;alla Musta4got...getting slow clapped by the Liverpudlians during a desperate plod-fest
3. He needed a hometown stoppage to get the nod over Lolenga Mock.
Haye is NOT one of the biggest punchers around. He is not even top 5 heavyweight.
His record is trash. Like I said, his resume does not stack up against either Klitschko. Sam Peter probably has a better record. Hasim Rahman definitely has a better record. John Ruiz has a better record.
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David Haye will knock VK out, no question. He's slow, boring and predictable and also past his best which was never that good anyway.
IDD clearly should stop commenting on this blog it's actually makign me cringe how much he is biased towards VK.
Watching Haye's recent interview on BBC just makes me like him more. He has a massive likeability factor, hopefully he might make the dullest division in boxing attractive and excting. DH is Box office quality.
I can't wait to see Ivan Drago Koed, haha.
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ironDirkDiggler
Fair enough on Abdoul, i'd forgotten about that one so hold my hands up.
As for the Thompson fight, he punched himself out in spectacular fashion. But he was taking on a ruddy good boxer in Thompson in only his 11th fight, took Vitali alot longer than that to fight anyone of any calibre.
Talking of calibre, who has he beaten in his resume?!
* Johnson - He infamiously turned up way out of shape for the fight
* Sanders - 38 years old when they fought, not exactly in his prime. (But beat Wlad a year before, proving in the process that Wlad had no chin and was distinctly average)
* Williams - Had knocked out a spent Tyson, who else has he beaten? He's not even European class
* Peter - A guy who epitomises the heavyweight division at present. Along with the likes of Valuez and co is an embaressment to their division.
Haye has no power? From memory Rahman couldn't get him out of there and won by unam decision, and Rahman is regarded as a big puncher. So what does that mean if Haye knocked him down 5 times?
What will you do if Haye does win?!
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The last point was about Barrett by the way
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Irondirk -
Im surprised you can lift your arms to type you have so many chips on your shoulder!
Nobody on here has disputed that Vitali is a class act and a very good heavyweight. However if you are suggesting there are bigger and better fights than Haye out there then you are sadly mistaken. Haye is someone who has genuine speed at the weight, which is rare. He also has potential knock out power in both hands, and suggesting he is not in the top 5 punchers at the weight is nonsense. Can you list 5 bigger hitters?!?
I think Haye has an outside chance at causing an upset here, he has tools that Vitalie wont have come up against too often and I think it will be a good fight whatever the outcome!
And I bet that you are a huge fan of Mayweather too?!? He never comes across as the cocky man whose in it for the rewards rather than the love of the sport does he?!? and if you excuse him because of his exceptional talent then you are a complete hypocrite!
The boxing game is no longer about gentlemanly conduct and touching gloves, the fact is that every single fight has this "they hate each other" build up which as soon as the final bell goes you can see was a total ticket selling sham. See Hattons and paulie's press conference when Paulie was having a pop and Hatton said "I thought we were friends" you can see the wry smile Paulie pulled, knowing he was talking nonsense! Haye is simply playing up to it and suggesting that he is offending anyone with the "head" shot is simply buying into the ridiculous PC culture and taking a free chance at taking a shot at the guy. Do you really think Haye himself mocked the photo up or do you think maybe...just maybe...it was done by someone involved in the promotion?!?
With all the criticism of fighters ducking the tough contests (see Z force Harrisons last 8 years) do you not appreciate the refreshing attitude of taking on all comers that Haye displays?!?
Take your bias and go home...I for one hope your TV breaks on the night of the fight!
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Not a Mayweather fan, not at all.
He is another David Haye....another "win by proxy" type of guy.
Fights nobody, and gets mad plaudits for it. Even at Lightwelter he was fighting guys like Gatti. Please.
Mayweather was supposedly the #1 Welterweight on the planet, of you ask Colin Hart.
List of Welterweights That Mayweather Fought At Welter
1. Carlos Baldomir.
List Of Non Welterweights That Mayweather Fought At Welterweight
1.Hatton
2.Sharmba Mitchell
3.Zab Judah
List of Welterweights Who Mayweather Flat Out Avoided At Welterweight
Paul Williams
Miguel Cotto
Shane Mosley
Antonio Margarito
David Haye is pretty much the same, cherry picking and saying this and saying that.
All this nonsense about how he "WOULD HAVE DONE THIS....and WOULD HAVE done that"...please...dont annoy me.
You cant claim victories by NOT fighting guys. "Oh...I would Have beaten him...he's....he's.....he's......too....boring....look at my beanie hat and my dreadlocks...aint I interesting"??
Klitschkos, Peter, Rahman, Ruiz, all have better resumes.
Carl Thompson..."HELLUVA BOXER"...are u nuts??
Carl Thompson was BEATEN by Johnny Nelson. Thats right, Johnny "White Feathers" Nelson.
He was almost beaten by Chris Eubank...who had lost to Joe Calzaghe....he was blasted out in some nothing fight by a Dutch fighter too.
Cruiserweight is Loserweight.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I pretty much said all I wanted to yesterday on Haye vs Klitschko (wind up if your interested... in short its like a moderated IDD, Klitschko to win but Haye with a chance and who else is their at Heavyweight?)
Anyway, point I wanted to jump in on is this arguement over records (which has been levelled here at Haye/Vitali and regularly gets levelled at 95% of boxers including Calzaghe, Froch and Mayweather - dont believe me? happy to back it up later). Fighters get this levelled at them because:
1) Their division is considered poor
2) Proportionate fee's are not available for a fight e.g. if you could do an easy days work for big pay or a hard days work for low pay which would you take? Same applies to boxer's
3) They/ the opponent has been genuinely ducking the fight.
Option 3 is rarer than most would think e.g. Calzaghe is often accused of ducking, but you cant keep hold of a belt for 23 consecutive fights by doing that - soon as you dodge one your stripped so any challenger could easily have cornered him to prove it, fact is they didn't.
Far as I'm aware Neither Vitali or Haye have ever been stripped of a divisional title for this reason (bar Haye dropping the cruiser titles to change weight/Vitali retiring which is clearly different). I also dont remember either fighter having a really significant opponent they have not fought. So this leaves option 1 for both fighters.
The fact that both cruiserweight and in paticular heavyweight are seen as poor talent pools is not the fault of either fighter. Both have very good records and have beaten those put in front of them, neither has a name that it could be said "well if they had fought that guy then maybe I could take them seriously" so actually by bringing this arguement forward what is this argument actually trying to prove? Klitschko clearly has the stronger overall record but he is the older fighter so thats expected, and a list of former victories doesn't necessarily guarantee a fighters calibre e.g. McBride beat Tyson, but thats clearly not an indication of his overall career or the context of that fight.
For me Haye should have taken on 1 of the other Europeans - Chagaev, Valuev, Ibrrahgimov before Vitali as it leaves a "where does he go next?" question win or lose as he's effectively taken on the 1 Heavyweight of the modern day era who could realistically be mentioned in the same breath as older greats (dont get me wrong he's not top 10 of all time, but clearly he would be seen as a world class fighter in any era).
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Irondirk -
Ok so you addressed my Mayweather point, you seem to have "bobbed and weaved" around every other point I made in my post. You wouldnt be ducking a fight would we...what would that do for your resume?!?
5 Bigger punching heavyweights?
The fact that boxing IS trashtalk now?
The FACT thet Haye himself is nothing do to with the picture that got so much sand in your panties?
And, not wanting to sound pedantic (ok maybe a touch) but HOW DO YOU IMPROVE YOUR RESUME WITHOUT GETTING IN THE RING WITH THOSE WHO ARE ABOVE YOU????
Maybe he should have fights against others that wont improve his resume?!? This is boxing, not a job interview!
aAnd quoting better resume's for guys who have been in the heavyweight game for 10 years is simply ridiculous! Of course they've fought better fighters in their career, the division has been much better over the last decade than it is now, and they've HAD THE OPPORTUNITY.
Are you seriously suggesting that Peters would be a tougher opponent for Vitali or Wlad than Haye?!?
Answers on a postcard (or just a post would do) please!!
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If Zab Judah isn't a welterweight why hasn't he fought at anything lighter than welterweight since 2003? He was the undisputed welterweight champ as well...
Who has Haye ducked in the cruiserweight division then? I could have sworn he went into Mormeck's back yard and came back with the belts? Has he also cherry picked the #1 heavyweight in Vitali?!?
As for Thompson, yeah he was a pretty good fighter. A more dangerous fighter than any of the journeymen that Vitali fought in his first 25 fights! And as for your Eubank comment, he took the Calzaghe fight at the last minute and still took Calzaghe the distance.
Is there anyone else you worship apart from Vitali?!?
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5 bigger punchers
Vitali
Wladimir
Samuel Peter
Rahman
Oleg Maskaev
Dimitrenko
In any order you please.
In Ibragimov and Chagaev there are two fighters with extensive amateur backgrounds and very successful pro careers, I think just the odd defeat between them.
I mean, Ibragimov has some pretty meaty stoppages on his resume, his destruction of Javier Mora was as impressive as anything Haye has ever lumbered us with. Unfortunately I cant link it because Ben Dirs gets his tutu in a hoop over youtube.
Peters did offer Haye the title fight- but Haye turned it down. Haye is not interested in any test or fight which involves him running the risk of losing.
He actually believes he can cash out vs Wladimir or Vitali without taking any of the risks traditionally associated with the divison, i.e fighting named contenders, ranked contenders, doing it the hard, traditional route....i.e. doing it the way Vitali and Wladimir did.
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How on earth is Haye cherry picking??? He went after everyone worth going after at cruiserweight, then he had one warm up fight at heavyweight before taking on a WORLD CHAMP!! If he'd have had several fights with journeymen at heavyweight he'd then be accused of dodging. So damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.
And if you're trying to make out that Eubank wasn't any good then you've lost the plot completely.
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Zab was the undisputed Welter Champ but he was not in the same class of Welter as guys like Paul Williams, Margarito- tall, genuine Welters, guys who could not make 140lbs if they tried their darndest!
Haye avoided/ducked/did not fight O'Neill Bell, Mormeck, Wlodaryczyk, Adamek.
Thats 4 guys. He claims he cleaned out his division and he missed those 4. He had two really big fights.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Haye is not interested in any fight where he runs the risk of losing? That's a pretty silly thing to say considering it's on a thread detailing his clash with KLITSCHKO!
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Not interested in fighting any fight which involves him losing before he gets a crack at a Klitschko, thought that much was clear.
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And Haye ducked Mormeck? That must have been someone else who looked an awful lot like Haye smashing his face in last year.
And why would he need to go for Adamek and Bell when he destroyed Mormeck? They would have been a big backward step.
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Haye did what any self-respecting boxer would do - go after the best. If you can get the big boss now, why spend a year or two fighting his henchmen? And surely Klitschko or the WBC should tell him to prove himself first if they feel the same as you?
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I've had to do some research to back this up so here goes:
KO percentages:
Wlad K - 81%
Maskaev - 63%
Peter - 71%
Rahman - 65%
Dimitrenko - 65%
David Haye - 91%
Vitali has power and knocked people out for fun, i'll admit that and he's the most dangerous heavyweight out there, but he's not a machine...
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Cant argue with that.
Is it just me or are these comments a bit strange?
You cant claim victories by NOT fighting guys. "Oh...I would Have beaten him...he's....he's.....he's......too....boring....look at my beanie hat and my dreadlocks...aint I interesting"??
Yes, Haye has the right complexion and the right connexion to win a place in the heart of the British PC Public, but Calzaghe and Hatton is some good fighters.
Danny Williams was indeed dangerous. He destroyed Tyson in a slugfest shootout. You hurt me...I hurt you....etc.
Haye is typical of the trashy "yoof" that have taken over this country. It will be refreshing to see that impressive combination of Slavic grace and German efficiency destroy this charmless, pro-beheading fool.
Haye is the epitome of the modern "Aff-Leet" boxer
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Whilst irondd's credibility got shot down long ago, this comment
"Haye avoided/ducked/did not fight O'Neill Bell, Mormeck, Wlodaryczyk, Adamek."
...puts the final nail in that coffin. You're only digging yourself deeper now claming Haye ducked a fighter he KO'd in his own back-yard. THE established best in the division, which meant Haye need'nt test himself against anyone else prior to moving onto heavy (why waste any time?).
And going back to Carl Thompson loss - just forget about it! Did you actually watch the fight?
I've never seen a more one-sided battering until Haye gassed. Yes gassed .. not caught with a shot that exposed any glass chin, not out skilled ...simply gassed.
Since that moment he woke up, became more committed in training in working on his conditioning and hasnt been as naive in the ring since. Never looking for a one punch early knockout unless the opportunity arises, not wasting all his energy in the process.
It was part of the learning process and Haye has been 10x the fighter since that loss.
Again .. you completely avoided Pacquaio's early KO losses, heavier losses, to lesser fighters than Thompson when mentioned before because you're using one rule for Haye and other rules for different fighters you like.
A total WUM, not worth anyone's time but hard to avoid because of the constant garbage talk.
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Vitali will be surprised and rocked by Haye's speed and power. a rude awakening awaits the lumbering "mummy". Legs like wodden pegs he has.
He did not get tested in any shape or form against Samuel Peter, so that fight doesnt count.
Almost every heavywight has a better record than Haye. That's hardly a point of argument, or grounds for ciriticism. It is simply fact.
I'd say Haye will have grown more into a Heavyweight by summer 2009 and his trainer will have spent more time training his mind for what will happen in there.
Vitali will fall.....
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I'm beginning to suspect that IDD is in fact one of Haye's jilted girlfriends, as this is the only logical explination I can reach for his pathalogical hatred for the man. And IDD, please stop the numerical point making, it consumes too much space and is a bit patronising.
Haye wonand held the WBO,WBA & WBC cruiserweight belts, had no-one else to fight in his division so has moved up one weight to challenge for HW titles, which when you look at it objectively is a fair move.
And as for whether he's earned his right to challenge robovit, no-one questioned JC, FMJ or Pac man when they moved up weights and they all went straight into big name fights, and given that Haye was the undisputed CW champ, I think he's entitled to jump a few places in the queue isnt he?
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can't believe some of these posts.... sometime calzaghe fan here, anti-david haye before the enzo fight, after i'm right behind him. he's articulate, honest, good natured and doesn't take a backward step. he has called out the best and will fight the best, even when its non-mandatory (enzo). give this guy some respect, he is putting himself on the line and giving both fists in front of thousands. good luck to you david if you read this forum, ignore some of the idiots on here, anyone who has ever been in the ring (i have) is behind you, you're doing us proud
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David Haye is far to cocky,he beleives his own hype that he is number one and nobody deserves to be in the ring with him.
Most boxers talk themselves up to promote the fight but this guy realy means it ,how he manages to get his head through door frames i just dont know.
Personally i think one good flush shot from Klitschko and Haye will be on his backside and won't recover and to be honest i'm looking forward to it,it'll be nice to see his mouth shut for at least a few minutes.:-)
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saying that Haye is a harder hitter because he has a higher KO percentage is just plain stupid.
He has fought 2 HEAVYWEIGHTS.
Count them.
Bonin
Barrett
Both of whom have been stopped before.
Also It was a TYPO when I said Haye didnt fight Mormeck. TYPO. TYPO.
Haye cannot "grow more"...all he can do is put on weight which will slow him down. Not exactly a smart move. Haye comes on tele and talks all this nonsense about how
(a) he is not a heavyweight, and so Klitschko should be prepared to fight him
(b) He is a heavyweight, and that Klitschko should be prepared to fight him.
Every time he opens his trap more rubbish comes out. He stinks of naivety and inexperience.
Frankly, the BBC should do to him what they used to do with Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams.....just dubb over his voice.
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I for one believe Haye has taken on too much too early in his HW career. Motive - difficult to say - quick in out and grab the cash and run - possibly - oversized ego - very likely. Klitschko will just lean on him and wear him down - when Haye tires K will finish it. Should be a good fight though Haye will get hammered.
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I can understand boxers with excessive confidence who haven`t achieved much getting under peoples skin, but Haye has in 23 fights unified the cruiserweight division and got a shot at the HW title. He`s also done it by knocking people out. That is impressive quick work. I would be cocky too if I could do that.
He wants the glory and good on him. If he waits around - knocks out a couple of lesser heavyweights, and then Vitali retires due to injury he will have missed the chance to get the big guy.
As for the photo - tasteless, yes but it whets the appetite for the fight, and it has been a while since anyone got excited about a heavyweight clash.
It is certainly no more tasteless than Ali pulling out a toy Gorilla, calling it "Joe" (Frazier) and punching it in the face.
Haye has a better chance than any other heavyweight contenders of beating the big man, and always dishes up excitement so let's just enjoy the show.
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Haye may be a bit of an ass - in fact he IS a bit of an ass - but he has several redeeming features.
1) He is actually funny, a rare commodity among boxers bent on public speaking.
2) He genuinely does go for it. Let's face it, if Frank Warren was managing him, we'd be watching the Klitschko fight in Holovision.
3) He is a good fighter. Probably not good enough to beat V Klitsch after two bouts at the weight - but good enough to be a breath of fresh air in the division, rather than just an Amir-Khan-type hype-dispenser.
The problem he faces is that his one hope against Wlad - chinniness of opponent - disappears with Vitali.
In short, the problem he faces is that he will get completely pasted.
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Boxers are all about hype, and as you have most likely never actually met and spoken to David Haye trying to make out he is some kind of terrible person is just stupid. . . FACT: There is no way you can know.
I would actually judge Haye to come across as an intelligent individual, after all he has set up his own company and represents himself.
The suggestions that Haye has not earned this title shot are pretty harsh, when considering there really are no other worthwhile contenders in the catergory, asides W Klitschko. Also if this wasn't an exciting fight that people wanted to see, why are we all bothering to discuss this? This will clearly be one of the most anticipated heavyweight clashes in a while.
Lastly V Klitschko is a fighter of pure quality who i think everyone has a lot of respect for. The whole decapitating thing is complete rubbish, and untasteful, but boxers always try to rile up their opponents just to tempt them into the fight.
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sorry I left my first paragraph off my previous post:
Firstly I would like to say to ironDirkDiggler that he has clearly been biased against David Haye. I am not saying that I am his biggest fan, along with almost everyone on this message board, as well as the boxing community on the whole I expect Haye to get beaten. However, I feel the the completely biased view offered by ironDirkDiggler is completely uncalled for. Also, you express a desire to see David Haye hurt, that is just a disgrace, go and look in the mirror and ask if thats the kind of sadistic, nasty person you want to be.
Boxers are all about hype, and as you have most likely never actually met and spoken to David Haye trying to make out he is some kind of terrible person is just stupid. . . FACT: There is no way you can know.
I would actually judge Haye to come across as an intelligent individual, after all he has set up his own company and represents himself.
The suggestions that Haye has not earned this title shot are pretty harsh, when considering there really are no other worthwhile contenders in the catergory, asides W Klitschko. Also if this wasn't an exciting fight that people wanted to see, why are we all bothering to discuss this? This will clearly be one of the most anticipated heavyweight clashes in a while.
Lastly V Klitschko is a fighter of pure quality who i think everyone has a lot of respect for. The whole decapitating thing is complete rubbish, and untasteful, but boxers always try to rile up their opponents just to tempt them into the fight.
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firstly can i stress the point, vitali was not going to beat lennox!!!!!
yes he had a good start and may have been ahead on points but he took a hell of a beating in the 6th round and theres no way he wouldn't of been ko'd in the next round!!!!!! nevermind stay ahead on points in the next 6rounds!!!
onto haye: i don't care who you are, if a heavyweight hits you flush your gonna be ko'd. whether this is tyson, lennox, frazier or whoever.
if vitali connects with haye he'll ko him.
if haye connects with vitali he'll ko him.
haye is big enough to cause many, many problems(too many problems) 6'3/6'4, 78' reach and he'll be close to 161/2 stone and far quicker than any other heavy weight vitali has ever boxed.
a big point to consider, haye won't be too scared to fight back against a klitchko, there will be no igbragimov vs wlad or whoever else you care to mention (peter, thompson, donald, williams). lets see how vitali reacts when haye fights fire with fire!!!
if haye stays sensible and concentrates for the duration he'll have too much for a single paced, old(no excuse cos he's had 4 years off), rusty( whichever way you look at it the vitali fans will pick old or rusty to justify the result) too handle!! FACT!!!!!
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spar rules
u r wrong about the comment on Haye knockin out vlad if he connects properly.
Vlad took the best shots lewis cud throw and was still standing. granted his face was a mess though. haye possesses awesome power for a cruiser but terribly standard power for a heavy.
the thing which most posts have not considered is 1 of the fundamentals of boxing. that is styles. Klitschko has been classed as boring the whole way through these posts but that will be the reason why he will win.
klitschko methodically almost machine like pops his jab and this will force haye into rash inexperienced lunges. vitali wont offer many angles but Haye with his low hands and telegraphed hooks will.
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can any1 see haye being able to fight on the inside the way he has become known as a cruiser? i personally cant.
has any1 seen haye fight on the back foot for long spells?
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sanatogen, what is this? I'd say Haye will have grown more into a Heavyweight by summer 2009 and his trainer will have spent more time training his mind for what will happen in there.
what a load of rubbish. haye is a seasoned pro.
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I love all these suggestions that Haye will be grown into a HW by the time of the fight - what are they going to do - fill his training boots with manure?
If Haye gets bigger he will get heavier and slower - he won't get taller, his reach won't increase - his stamina will not improve. Haye's fundemental problem is that he is small for a modern day HW and he lacks the boxing skills to offset his relative lack of stature.
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Well if Haye is to be believed then he struggled to make cruiserweight, having to shed a lot of natural weight which sometimes sapped his power.
So if he can fight at a more natural weight at heavy, granted he'll still be smaller than VK, then potentially he'll be more explosive then he has been.
Like I said at the beginning, that's IF Haye is truthful when he says it.
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Diggler you are a joker....you're hatred for Haye is even more ridiculous than your needlessly perfect English. I can imagine you sitting there with a dictionary!!
Anyway....i do actually find myself agreeing with some of the stuff you say. However, i disagree with your main point, that Haye is basically a chump.
Haye may not have fought the same calibre of fighters that V Klitschko has, but he's only 28.....give him a break!! Whenever he's had to fight the best he has destroyed them, but because of his age, his suspect chin and a few flaws like a low left hand he has never been considered to be that great. The Klitchko fights may cement his place as one of the best boxers of the past 5-10 years.
Apart from the one defeat and the odd scare he has largely taken apart all the fighters he has fought at all the different weights. Personally i think thats because of his amazing punch power rather than any great pugilistic skills he may have. Nonetheless he is still a great boxer and his awesome power just makes him a world-class fighter.
Klitcho will just try to jab Haye to death, as he did in his last fight. The problem for Vitali is that he wont be punching a stationary bag of sand that Peters was....he'll be fighting a quick, powerful, young and hungry fighter...who could knock him out in one punch. Ofcourse the same applies to Haye (in terms of being knocked out by one punch) which is why i'm refusing to call the fight. With Haye you just never know....bit like my beloved Arsenal
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I'm confused by those who somehow think suggesting Haye is still growing into Heavyweight is either:
a) Disrespectful to his proffessionalism
b) A mistake
Haye has been at Heavyweight for around ayear now and is fighting around 2 stone haeavyier than in all but 2 of his fights (neither of which lasted very long). You cant just add two stone and be exactly the same fighter, he will be slower and his cardio more suspect than at cruiser, but the return is the power yo must have to perform at heavyweight.
The step up is not a huge issue for Haye, he was always a big cruiser and obviously has the natural frame for this weight but the simple fact is the body (by your 20's) needs around a year to adjust to a new weight, so I'd agree with any statement that in 6 months time Haye will be more comfortable at heavyweight. His training will have changed, weight cutting is not an issue now and with each fight his body will become more natural at the weight.
As for those thinking its a mistake, well speed is good and all and yes there was Pac-man vs ODLH to 'prove' the fact recently, but at Heavyweight the minimum weight you can carry to not sacrifice too much power to your opponent is 16st e.g. slightly under where Haye has put himself. If Haye came up and boxed at the same weight and style he did at Cruiser he would fail; he knows this and is obviously adjusting his style. Not to a significantly different style, but enough subtle differences to factor in the different, slower style he will encounter at heavy e.g. if he moves as much as he did at Cruiser its wasted energy because his opponet will almost invariably be a lot more static.
At first I gave Hay little chance in this fight, more I think about the more I can see opportunities, but the bottom line is this is the only heavyweight fight I can think of that I'd be interested in right now.
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i'll agree vitali has a great chin. but while he took some great shots from lewis and didn't hit the canvas, he was in a whole world of trouble when the fight was stopped.
i think haye will prove he has far more than 'standard hw power' as he has done already in his 2 hw fights.
being able to fight at his natural weight will only add significantly to his power, speed (not just hand speed but foot speed) and stamina.
in short, the guys gonna get better and better all the time at hw.
p.s fights aren't decided purely on size alone otherwise whats the point!
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Reading through this thread has been more entertaining than all of the klitschko fights put together lol
I guess i will have to be an outspoken person in taking issue with the consensus that either of the Klitschko brothers are 'world class'
One consensus that i will agree with is that the heavyweight division is a joke, you just have to look at the long list of nobodies that the brothers grim have fought to see that. So winning world titles in the present HW division is a far cry from having the skills of a Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson, in their prime (real 'world class' boxers)
Indeed, I dont think there is anybody of note that either of them has beat, and if anyone mentions herbie hide i may just have to pull my eyes out. And no amount of gesturing about keeping an over the hill Lewis honest is going to change my mind on that one.
The fact that haye can get a title fight as his 3rd HW outing and that Vit can go on holiday for 4 years, come back and get a title fight straight off the bat, and on top of all that only having the likes of Peters (A guy who had already lost to Wlad - Yes..thats how rubbish he is) between him and the WBC title, and even further that calling out a 42 yr old Lewis is their way of proving themselves - all goes to show how pathetic the division is.
So the most complimentary i can be about these pretenders is saying that they are the best of a bad bunch.
Now Haye to fight a soon to be 38yr old Vit, the fact that no longer does anyone bat an eyelid when you mention not only that a guy in his late 30's is still boxing, but that he holds a title is such a sad sight.
Will Haye stand a chance? Well, he may be a bit chinny but im more impressed with Mormeck & Enzo wins than any of the 'scalps' of the brothers grim.
If Vit is too slow and lumbering with his shots he will struggle to keep up with Haye's workrate (again dont mention Herbie Hide, that was 9 years ago, get over it IDD), and fighting someone who wants to win rather than being their for the paycheck will also be a prospect Vit is not used to.
Who will win, i dont know, anything can happen on the night, Vit might get lucky and land a peach on the chinny haye, but if he doesnt, i think Vit will lose on points.
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gav1ndav1d. For someone who writes a load of SiugHrewIopklTnbvcE (see caps). you must not know alot about boxing!!!!! Vitali retired when he was WBC champ. That means if you come out of retirement you automatically get a shot at the title you had when he retired!! same with mayweather if he does come out of "retirement" he also gets a shot at andre berto to take back what was his !! cant see it happening to be honest not enough money in it for floyld. however he will fight hatton when ricky dispatches off manny!! K.O round eight onwards to hatton !!!!
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Heart says Haye will win head says VK.
Mind you there is a lot of nonsense on this thread.
Can Haye win - certainly. He has the punch power and the speed and he is intelligent enough to know he has to tighten up his defence. Whether he can keep to the game plan when in the ring is a different question.
VK is not exactly quick, not as bad as most current heavyweights but still a plodder. If Haye is to win he has to attack the body. At 6'8" VK has an awful lot of body to hit. If the chin is granite (personally I think it is more due to the fact he is technically very correct defensively) then ignore it and chop his legs away through consistent body attack. To do this Haye needs to roll inside - prime Tyson was a master at this.
I here a lot of nonsense about size - sure Haye is giving 4-5" and a couplpe of stone in weight away. Prime Tyson was 5'10" and 15.5 stone so was in many fights giving away similar height and maybe a little less in weight but id did not trouble him.
Haye's biggest problem is the VK jab. It is a thing of beauty. Best heavyweight jab since Bruno and before him Holmes
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VK being so much bigger is not enough of an advantage for being so slow and predictable. Look at pacman it was embarassing fighting a ODH, so fast and skillfull. This fight will go the same way, with style and skill that we have not seen in the heavyweight division for many years.
May I say Ben, what a great blog. You have spoken so much sense so far especially in response to IDD. I also hold similar views to you as a boxing fan. Do I really care whether Haye is a great fighter yet? Well.. no. I already know he's an excting one, who has made the first interesting fight at heavyweight happen for years and years. Even American interest.
I think alot of people will be eating their words just like in the pac man fight.
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@thejoker10
Utter tosh, Vit got a chance straight away because of the WBC awarded him emeritus status due to injury (i.e. not being able to defend his title), not something automatically done someone retires as in usual usage of the word, same with mayweather, he was given the same status - except mayweather's emeritus is for super welterweight - for a belt he had already given up before he retired. So he could fight Vernon Forrest for the WBC SW title not Andre Berto. Get your fact straight before shouting down others.
The point i was trying to make was that giving any ex-boxers this type of status is what adds to makinbg boxing look bad, especially when it harks back to the joke of Tyson get a title shot the minute he got out of the clink.
And I dont think Vit's holiday of failing dismalling to become mayor of his local town is worthy WBC Champion Emeritus.
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All this nonsense, comparing Haye to Manny Pac....suggesting that going to the body against Vitali will be easy done etc etc etc....obviously most of you have never boxed.
When Haye leans in with one of his amateurish body slaps, Vitali will simply either step back or nail him coming in.
I am glad Steve Bunce and Andy Kerr made sure that they dedicated as little as possible of Thursdays show to David Haye.
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I'll admit that I can't stand David Haye, as I think all this trash talking has no place in sport. Even the cricketers are at it now. Frankly, he encourages chavs to continue being pond life instead of aspiring to something better. I come from a s**thole council estate, so I reckon know better than these middle class lefties who say 'It's good, harmless entertainment.' No, lads from council estates look up to successful boxers, so it's up to them to set a good example. The Klitschko's are gentlemen and set a good example. The Klitschkos may have come from a different background to those on council estates, but nonetheless can inspire those in less fortunate circumstances. This is not to say I agree with all Diggler's comments. Frankly, I find him lapsing into the trash talking he is critical of.
As regards the fight, I can't see Haye winning, even looking at it impartially. Haye gets knocked down too easily through lapses in defence. If he gets knocked down by Klitschko, he won't get back up. His pedigree is quite ordinary: in the Cruiserweight division, Mormeck was good but not great and had him down; Maccarinelli was nothing special; he never fought Adamek; Thompson showed he has questionable durability and stopped him. At heavyweight, he has taken on someone beaten by Audley Harrison and Barrett, who was average at his best and whose best days are behind him.
Klitschko, it is true, has had a four-year break and will be rusty; but to beat Samuel Peter after such a lapse is impressive. I think Haye will be eating jab all fight - and that's a nasty jab to eat. There is of course the question of Haye's 'legendary' power. Well, Carl Thompson was unphased by it, so how is it going to affect a man who has never been put down in a boxing match, and who has faced Lennox Lewis' cannons?Vitali stops Haye sometime after the sixth for me.
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Just to clarify for those who dont watch David Haye interviews.
The boxer said himself that he would take a break after defeating Enzo in order to bulk up to heavyweight.
Hence my comments about "growing into heavyweight" are hardly disrespectful. David Haye walks around at 215-ish anyway.
Haye may be considered a seasoned pro, which must mean to some posters that he's ready right now to face a monster like Vitali without any mind training whatsoever.
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irondirkdiggler
People aren't comparing Haye to Pacman, they're comparing the similarities between the 2 respective fights i.e. DLH and Vitali are both old, the young guy is hungry for it all, DLH & Vitali have only had 5 fights between them in the last 4 years etc etc etc.
Just because people haven't boxed before doesn't mean that their opinion isn't valid. Has Steve Bunce boxed in his life? Nope, he hasn't! But he still gets to front a boxing show on Setanta! So are you saying he hasn't got a clue about boxing either?
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Haye will lose as he is to small to fight here, he is a decent boxer but needs alot more time and weight to fight the tougher brother, he was beatn by thomson and vitali will be too strong. Haye is a fresh breath of air for the heavyweight, but this will not be is night. Vladimir would have been a easier fight, but this will be the making of Haye if he some how wins
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The main problem i have with everyone who is saying Haye will get battered is you seem to be basing it on how imperious Vitali supposedly is. He hasnt really beaten a world class opponent. Williams, Peters, Butterbean, am i missing anyone world class? Can you honestly tell me that Haye wouldnt batter all of them?
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@ gav1ndav1d
Correct me if im wrong?! but when hatton fought mayweather im quite positive that it was for the WBC welterweight title.
Also if i can remember when mayweather beat de la hoya for the light middleweight title he relinquished that title straight away ?!?!?!!
So its not verno forrest who he could choose to fight its berto !!!
Utter tosh!!!
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ive really enjoyed reading through this blog, more so than quite a few fights i have seen! however i have only one contribution, just to remind everyone that from the foreman- norton/frazier outcomes being used to predict the rumble in the jungle, to the bigger man will win cliche being used for ODLH PMan, you never know until the bell rings....which is why i love boxing, because its not just brawn, and its not just brains, or courage, or stamina, or desire and heart, or reach measurements, or fight record, or KO percentage, or whatever is touted as a reason for a win... but all this mixed together in the intensity of the night mixed with a dose of luck and a sprinkling of pep talk... well well im getting a bit poetic!!... so good luck to Haye anyway!...lets see some excitment on the night!!
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The positive thing is, judging by all the comments, this fight has people talking about HW boxing again.Which it really really needs.
I like Haye as a boxer he has skills and power. He has got in the ring with some good fighters, who can bang. More over he has done this in their back yards as well.
Vitali is a strange one, he has HW skills no doubt and has in the past had a good performance or two. The most noticable thing about him is he's not keen on taking hits anymore, he shown this a few times now. Usually when he gets in the ring the guy opposite isn't sure if he can beat him a throws token punches. Haye will THINK he can beat him and therefore will plant his feet and unload on him.
In the Lennox fight he was only good for 2 rounds. Digress....
The reason he never went down against lewis was Vitali's trainer had made him stay on the front foot so every time he was gonna topple he was holding Lewis before he knew it. His face was a mess when the doc stopped it and if he hadn't he would not be here fighting now. However I totally agree there should have been a rematch, Vitali deserved that much at least.
I would also add that Lewis's chin was proven falable and Vitali couldn't put him down. Haye also has a falable chin, but he has taken some big shots as well. Haye has taking his losses very well and come back better. Vitali is not the same fighter he was after the Byrd fight, though has fought well after that just not the same, the fearless streak left him that night.
What makes this exciting is Vitali is going to step in with a dangerous opponent. Haye does not box for points so someone is going down in this fight which is what HW boxing was famous for!
As a boxing fan I want this fight to happen and I want both fighters on there game! So we can have a HW contest worth watching.
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@thejoker10
Incorrect, still basing on the retirement status, which it isnt, it is based on emeritus status - but dont believe me, go to the ratings section on the WBC site and see for yourself.
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I still think Haye has as good a chance as any, though that isnt saying much in the current HW division.
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Hey Dirs, Valuev had a bad fight last night. Does that mean that David would have beaten him. Of course it does....David always wins, "by proxy"
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ironDirkDiggler - As usual, I have no idea what you're talking about
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Considering Haye's KO percentage I would say winning by proxy is a rare event for him lol.
But then, you are defining 'by proxy' as speculation, which, on that basis means that most boxers have thousands of wins and losses to add to their tally.
Note one of your previous comments:
'I am speculating but it is educated guesswork- Klitschko has fought better men and beaten them.' - Winning by proxy is ok for some i take it?
Looking back through your comments there seems to be a pattern to the boxers you like and dislike and it seems to have little to do with boxing talent, make of that what you will.
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IDD.
You sound as if you know what you're talking about, but I have the feeling most of it is complete b******s.
I love looking through these sort of blogs. They always reminds me of those travelling carnivals of the 19th century with their bearded ladies, india rubber men etc. In this particular freak show, IDD, you are definitely the Elephant Man.
Anything valid in your argument is totally negated by your so obvious bias. Lighten up, son, and people might listen to you.
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Reading this thread has been great fun so I thought I'd throw in a view of my own. I'm going to go against the common consensus by taking Haye to win by KO. Haye is multidimensional, has power in both hands, incredibly quick, agile and possesses a great boxing brain. He's in great shape and is gaining more strength at HW. I.E. He will not slow down with more weight because his training is all about agility and power.
DH is probably the most exciting british boxer since Nigel Benn, total value for money.
IDD I'm not sure you (get) what DH is about, Ben's view is spot on - DH creates excitement and intrigue, which is why you have spent hours commenting on him in this thread (very entertaining by the way) so in a sense he has won you over...although you'd hate to admit it.
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Evander Holyfield moved up from cruiser to HW just when there was a void that needed filling.
I truly believe Tyson was never a real HW, hence he really could never get back to the top because big boys were there. Tim Witherspoon was champ when the HW scene was going through a transition. Tyson took it and ruled because there was no one of any caliber. (Forman could see that and that?s why he came out of retirement, the same as Riddick Bowe now)
If a prime Lennox had been in front of a prime Tyson I still think Lennox would have won.
Evander?s record speaks for itself in his prime. I was only 17 years old and watched him fight at cruiser.
He ruled until Riddick and Lennox came in, and only because Tyson was in jail, against them you could see him for what he was, a cruiser fighting at heavey.
Haye has the chance to do the same as Evander. If he can carry his power from cruiser he will be able to knock HWs down the same way Tyson did.
Vitali is old and rusty. He?s just protecting the family bankroll by stepping in front of his brother.
His brother will have a few more mandatory defenses. Then he will also meet Haye.
If anyone comes along with size and talent while Haye is on top he?ll quit.
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Iron dirk diggler
Did David Haye have "relations" with your missus!!
Never seen such venom!!
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I think Haye will clean up the division but he has to watch dropping his hands too much as the Klitchko brothers might be one dimensional but they are not stupid and will have studied David Haye and will punish him if he leaves himself exposed ......
Saying that I think when he hits any of them with that big right and that devastating left hook they will want to run home to mummy in Ukraine .....
David V Goliath 1...2...3 for Vitali ...Vladimir and then Valuev !!!
Can't wait !!!
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A few people on here should read the 2nd comment after this article (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/gareth_a._davies/blog/2008/12/15/david_with_goliathklitschko_head_clever_ploy_or_foolish_move_) and maybe the article itself! Spot on as to why Haye has managed to step straight up from Cruiserweight to be fighting for the Heavyweight title.
It's gonna be an exciting fight for sure simply because you can't call it, no matter how much you deliberate over who each boxer has beat, their chins, speed, power etc.
You can't call it is because Klitchsko has been out for so long and age may be catching up with him - what Haye's banking on. And Haye has only just stepped up to the Heavyweight division, is still inexperienced at this level and weight and most likely won't take a heavy weight punch!!
Game on! That's what we want. I'm rooting for Haye, but it could go either way!
Everyone going on about Haye being gobby - as I think someone pointed out amid this frenzy of posts - He HAS to be he is the PROMOTER of this fight. He is already doing a fantastic job of selling it is he not!!?
He certainly has a touch of arrogance, but that is what allows him to get in there and do what he does. He needs to be confident to even have a chance of beating Klitschko!
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I like how ironDirkDiggler wrote "a little subtlety goes a long way". I'm not quite sure where that leaves him.
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Liked the blog. The IronDirkDiggler fellow has made it though. I must agree with him on one thing though, the photo was completely tasteless. I was very disappointed to see it. I was solidly behind Haye up to that point. Now, I feel Vitali's pain when he says "I've seen my brother protrayed like that. Haye must pay for this photo." Game on!
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Bangforyourbuck wrote:
> And yes I did find those Klitschko fights boring. The way he boxes is just completely unattractive, though efficient in the current climate.
And that's true, but then I thought the same of Lewis; a guy who happened to be bigger than most of his opponents and had an admittedly good jab.
Despite his unquestioned achievements, for me Lewis was the beginning of the end of heavyweight boxing. He just spoiled his way through most of his fights using his size and his jab.
To be honest the last heavyweights to excite me were Tyson and Holyfield at their respective bests. Sad that Tyson was unable to maintain his performance level.
.. and sad, in a way, too that Holyfield was!
Anyway going back to this fight, Haye stands a chance; a lot depends on how rusty Vitali is and what effect 4 years out of the ring has had on him. On the one hand he has not been taking blows to the head and his body has had time to recover but on the other he's now 37 and I've yet to see a boxer return to the ring after a long lay off with the same speed of hands. Look at both Ali and Tyson by way of example.
Haye could be making a very smart move.
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Kaizen_Analyst wrote:
> I was solidly behind Haye up to that point. Now, I feel Vitali's pain when he says "I've seen my brother protrayed like that. Haye must pay for this photo." Game on!
I think, it's smart of Haye to try to get under Vitali's skin. Perhaps if he's angry he'll lose his normal composure and create openings for Haye ....
on the other hand though .....
perhaps he's just given Vitali enthusiasm for the job.
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Haye is the man. Boxing needs somebody like him to step up and not be afraid of taking a beating. Boxers are too often wrapped up in cotton wool and saved for only a couple of big fights in their careers. Look a UFC (which is fast becoming more popular than boxing) where the puplic gets the fights it wants to see and there isnt any silly organgnistations standing in there way.
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come on...a prime lewis would beat a prime tyson?? ok, i can admit he may not of been to everyones taste, he was an animal in the ring, but very likable out of it, and the interview with him and muhammed ali, with ali saying he would never of liked to fight tyson....and thats coming from the greatest..its painful to see some boxers continue, tyson is a prime example, no was on earth should someone like danny williams have beaten him, same with holyfield, and oscar de la hoya is another...did VK really need to take this fight? its a great fight for boxing..but if haye wins..every1 will say VK was past it..VK wins, and haye was never good enough, so neither will gain the respect that would be deserved
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Tyson - likeable out of the ring?
I think there are a number of people with first hand experience of Tyson that would disagree with that.
And I think Ali may have been being polite.
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if he had decent people around him, who didnt try to leech of his every success, i doubt he'd be in the mess he is now, im not saying he was perfect by any means..but he was, and will be remembered as a boxing legend.
back to the point of this fight, i would love haye to win, i think all boxing fans should want him to win..he's exciting and talks 1 hell of a game, but generally delivers, its boxing, people making a fuss about what he says, or does, hes provocted a reaction he wanted, people are talking about him wheter it good or bad, but how can any1 realistically build them up for a fight by being polite about your opponent
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David Haye is boxer who was an extremely accomplished amateur. As a professional thus far he has proven himself with some inspirational performances at cruiserweight. He now has a fight lined up at heavyweight against a seasoned professional who is certainly a game competitor. Vitali Klitschko has had some good victories previously in his career and been in the ring with some great fighters. He is the bigger man on this occasion with Haye giving away alot of weight. David seems confident in himself and I am sure he will relentlessly prepare for the up and coming fight. He has a good punch and ability to recover. Speed is also a great asset of Haye and at least one advantage he will have over Vitali. Come fight time I think David will be ready and extremely focused. The fight should be a great spectacle.
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@ concerned
I have to agree with you, Ali was probably being polite.
Tyson and Gus Damato modeled his fighting style on Sonny Liston.
Ali did a number on him twice.
Sonny was built like Tyson, and fought like Tyson.
Liwis in his prime in my opinion was on his rise to the top. He was a lot smaller and a lot faster.
The fight agaist Gary Maison was Liwis' prime.
In addition at that time when he was knockoing on the doors he was about the same size a Haye is now. (but taller.)
So i Stand by my comment, a young lennox would have beaten Tyson. It was just a pitty Tyson commited rape outside of the ring........likeable, get out of here ;-)
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Iron d I have read through all your comments and I have come to the conclusion your boxing knowledge is lacking. I read you think Hatton will beat Pacman if Graham was still his coach. Floyd is a 10 times better coach than Billy Graham and Ricky would tell you that. Picking Pacman to beat Oscar wasn't amazing I had that as well.
Now as for your views on this fight you are entitled to your opinions about David Haye but please cut him some slack and respect the guy for challenging Vitali. So if you think Haye's comments are yobbish do you agree with Mayweather's comments? or Ali's comments? Please refrain from abusing Haye he is a legitimate British title hope so please just let us believe what we want to believe and if you are proved right then you can gloat.
Come on David!
Good blog Ben
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Diggler is an idiot! I knew that and stopped reading his comments after he went on about 'one more round' haha
When is the last 'one more round'? Because Vitali's eye was one big big mess and i haven't seen a cut like that before in Boxing!
He has his 'one more round' twice or three times (i'm not sure how man the Ref allowed him, because i don't check the net to find out i spell everything right and get all my facts right - pathetic i know! haha)
I really hope you read this DIRK!
You're own personal views are rubbish to read to say the least! You state the obvious and the long way to type it to attract attention!
E.g.
1) Why would you write lists like this?
2) Unless you want EVERYONE reading in and people can ask you questions and you can feel importent...
3) You're pathetic mate!
4) Give up the dream of being a sports commentator
5) Get a Job!
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