Perfect time for Joe to go
It's been a bad week for the old guys - first John McCain, and now Roy Jones Jr. In both cases, you didn't have to be Nostradamus to predict the result.
What did the fight at Madison Square Garden in the early hours of Sunday morning prove? That Joe Calzaghe is one of the greatest fighters Britain has ever produced and that Jones' best days are long behind him. But then most of us knew that already.
What it did reveal is that the pride of Newbridge, still blowing like a whirlwind at the age of 36, has got plenty left in the tank. What price a swansong at Cardiff's Millennium Stadium next summer? I'll lay you 2-1.
Calzaghe said in his autobiography that he thought Jones was "washed up" three years ago after shocking knockout defeats to Antonio Tarver (twice) and Glen Johnson. He revised his opinion in the build-up to this fight. But he was right first time.
For the first four rounds some journalists ringside thought they might be witnessing a Garden classic, to rank alongside Robinson-LaMotta and Ali-Frazier. But from the sixth round on Jones was just another Garden ghost. As Jones said later, "Joe's pitter-pats were harder than I thought".
However gratifying it was to see Calzaghe put in a virtuoso performance at the "mecca of boxing", you'd be a hard-hearted fight fan not to feel sad at seeing the once untouchable Jones lumbering forward with hands held high, like a log being fed into a mulching machine.
Still, don't start crying into your cornflakes. Jones, who will split the proceeds of the fight straight down the middle with Calzaghe, will walk into retirement considerably richer. When that retirement might be is difficult to say. He says he might be back.
His trainer Alton Merkerson, a Vietnam veteran who has seen his fair share of bloodshed, should sit Jones down and show him a tape of Ali versus Trevor Berbick. "This is what happens when you go on too long - you get beaten by bums."
Bernard Hopkins and Mikkel Kessler were ringside to see the demolition first hand, while Chad Dawson, the undefeated IBF light-heavyweight champion, had penned a challenge to be read out to Calzaghe at the post-fight presser.
"I don't do rematches. I'm happy with what I've achieved this year, but I'll see what happens," said Calzaghe, who beat the 43-year-old Hopkins in Las Vegas in April and Kessler in Cardiff last November.
That old boxing chestnut: "I'll see what happens". It's up there with "never say never". I preferred it when he said: "It was a fairytale fight and would be a fairytale ending".
Only the second man in history to win ABA titles at three different weights, unbeaten as an amateur and a professional in 18 years, 21 world title defences, two wins on American soil - the second courtesy of a vintage performance. Surely that's enough for any man?
Jimmy Wilde, perhaps Wales' greatest ever fighter (Calzaghe might disagree), finished his career flat on his face in a New York ring, knocked out by one Pancho Villa and stripped of his world flyweight crown.
No fairytale finish for Wilde, and there rarely are in boxing. Calzaghe would do well to remember that and walk away now.
PS. Some journalists have complained about the promotional side of things this week. Having seen the ring card girls on Saturday night, some of them have changed their minds. Who knew that dental floss came in black? I thought Bert Sugar was going to choke on his cigar...
Hello. I have been working for the BBC for almost a decade now and cover almost all sports, but particularly cricket and boxing. It would be good to hear from you - just don't be nasty or my mum might get upset.
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LOL. What a way to put down Trevor Berbick!
But I agree with the sentiment!
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He''ll be back. He's god for one more fight, now that he's left the village and sorted his pension out.
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Im doing my best to like joe..and I think he is a very good boxer but I just find it hard to put him up there with the greats...in beating an old washed up roy jones on points doesnt prove anything really.. except that he beat a washed up ol roy jones..as an irishman i love to see us beating the best on the other side of the pond but i just wish this fight was 10 years ago...just to see how good joe really is..perhaps he and we will never know....and thats a real pity..but he won and the records wont show otherwise..it feels a bit like winning the grand national..with only one horse in the race...probably would have anyway...but...?
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It would be great for once to see a fine boxer retire at the pinnacle.
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But, alas, I fear that the Money Men (who don't care a toss for his well-being) will get at him, and he will start on the usual downward slope.
.
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Please retire Joe.
No matter how much money is on offer, you would swap it all to keep your 100% record.
Show just one more touch of class - go out at the top.
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I am welsh and I love boxing, but I too am finding it difficult to admire and respect Joe Calzaghe after last nights 'fairytale' fight.
I was actually quite appalled by the way he danced and goaded Jones. It was bad enought that he was doing it to a washed up former champion who should have hung up his gloves after the first Tarver fight. But to prance in front of him when Jones couldn't see out of his leading eye I thought showed a total lack of respect on Joe's part.
Sure in his prime Jones goaded his oponents on, safe in the knowledge that they couldn't touch him, but he seemed to do it with a touch of class. Calzaghe just looked like an idiot last night.
For me he will never be remembered as a legend. He will be remembered as a fine boxer who had a good record. Legends go in against the best and they usually have losses on their records.
I would have more respect for Joe if he fought Jones and Hopkins 6 years ago and lost (which I think he would have done) than merely add their names to what before then a fairly average resume.
As an aside, I was reading Frank Warren's article in the Sun yesterday - Is it true that Joe has pulled out of 12 world title fights? What a legend!
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Some people will never be happy... at the end of the day people realised this was a pension fight so what more did they expect?
RJJ made himself a valid opponent by winning his last three fights showing he could come back... I only felt before the fight that he now stands up too straight in a European style and Calzaghe battered Kessler with that style.
Calzaghe has beaten the "next best things" in Kessler and Lacy... who else is there? People were hyping Pavlik but he was schooled by Hopkins who Calzaghe beat. No one would ever pay to watch a B-Hop rematch because it was simply dreadful to watch. The same commentator who said Calzaghe had to fight the dangerous Chad Dawson also said Joe would be beaten to a pulp by Lacy... so opinions of the up and comers are not really setting the fires alight.
There will always be up and comers but let them make their own legacies. Joe made his over the past 10 years and deserves to go out of the sport in any fashion he sees fit.
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I just don't get the fuss about Calzaghe latter fights. He can box no doubt about that, but his just beaten to of the greatest fighters of their generation, when fans of either fighter will tell you all day that both Hopkins & Jones are far part the sell by date. Jones for instance is in the midst of the 1st losing run of his long career.
Clearly Joe can only beat whats placed in front of him, and it's not his fault that he is here and at the top of the game now, while the latter two peaked years ago.
But what do these victories really mean? Much of boxing is just a show to me now. There's hardly any serious competition within weight class above Welterweight.
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I am delighted. I wonder if Jones was happy being "slapped" last night?! They certainly did the trick didn't they.
Great fighter. Great record. Will retire a legend.
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If there are still any doubters over Calzaghe's pedigree as a great, then fine, I guess you will never be convinced, but here's something you can not deny.
Joe's ability to outlast any opponent put in front of him is credit to his stamina and natural fitness, and in these areas he is amongst the best ever.
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I have to agree with the comment about Joe's showboating, I think it went a bit too far, bordering on disrespect, Buncey said it was kind of an homage to hw RJJ used to do things but, it just lacked a bit of class to me, it went over the top, I'm surprised he went so far with it.
That being said, 3 X 118 - 109 says it all.
Ive backed JC for ages on this forum and so I am very happy, I hope he doesnt have a re match with, who needs another 12 round spoil fest!!
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People are calling Jones washed up and past it, hes only 3 years older than JC!!! Surely calzaghe deserves some credit for being so good at 36!!!!! Im pretty sure he would still have beaten RJJ if RJJ was 3 years younger..!!
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RE post 11 ; *re match with Bhop..
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Well done Joe - a boxing legend and best British boxer of all time. He has beaten all put before him.
To all the knockers remember this - Hopkins and to a lesser extent RJJ wouldn't fight Calzaghe 5/6 years ago as they had too much to lose, whereas Joe beat them both when he had more to lose.
Pavlik got a lucky escape because he would have been like Lacy - a shell of the fighter who entered the ring before fighting JC
I hope he retires now - undefeated.
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I think all those commentators who slate Calzaghe for not fighting Hopkins or Jones in their prime are missing half the point since neither of them would have gone anywhere near JC in his late 20s/early 30s.
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why doesnt he go ahead and fight the best fighter in the world, floyd mayweather if he thinks hes so good? he is the true legend .
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Shame Calzaghe fought these guys so late.
He really should have made the move to the US years back, but instead chose to defend that WBO belt his entire career in wales.
Real shame.
He may have lost against the big boys, but he would have had a bigger impact.
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why doesnthe fight mayweather? that would be good
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TeniPurist
Nobody can take anything away from Joe, but lets not be silly about this. ONly 3 years diffrence between Joe and Roy? Well both Hopkins and Jones were fighting each other for the World titles in 1993 !!! if you or any body else thinks for one minute that Calzaghe could have gone anywhere near a ring with those two then, or if they were both at thoese monumental peaks today, then you're all just talking out of there arse.
If anybody actually beleives for one second that the BEST of Joe Calzaghe could 'toy' with the best or Roy Jones jr - they must be off their head.
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Some people just don't want to give Calzaghe any credit.
I think he'd have beaten Jones and Hopkins 10 years ago, just as he has done now.
These people go on about Jones and Hopkins being 'in decline' but how about saluting Calzaghe for his longevity and the fact he's beaten these boxers in the here and now?
Also there is an argument that Joe was at his peak a few years back so I'm sorry - that line of thought just doesn't wash.
I think the British public love losers, at the end of the day. They love a loser, and can only give a champion grudging mealy-mouthed respect while looking for flaws.
I think that is the cancer at the heart of British sport. Who will aspire to be a winner when all you have are people carping enviously about your record.
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I think it's already clear that Calzaghe doesn't intend to retire just yet - which is a shame. I'm sure he'd like one last hurrah, probably in Cardiff, but who is there left to fight?
Sadly, I see an unmotivated Calzaghe losing his 100% record at some point in the next 18 months, possibly against a fighter he would have slaughtered five years ago.
Quit whilst you're ahead, Joe - you've earned the accolades, but don't tarnish your legacy with one fight too many.
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LFC
People (you included) dont seem to understand this, they fought on two different timelines and thats it...JC has peaked in his early to mid 30s after growing in stature throughout his pro career, whereas RJJ was explosive and brilliant in his youth in the early to mid 90s but has faded badly in the same time that JC has improved.
Of course Joe wouldnt have gone into the ring with RJJ or bhop in 1993 he wasnt even a pro yet!!
A prime JC against a prime RJJ? great fight, no one can say who would win, I would back Calzaghe though.
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Why doesn't he fight mayweather?
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At what weight class do you suggest that fight would take place, if you pick a middle of the road weight, say middleweight, then both fighters would have an excuse if they lost, the only way would be for one of the fighters to step into the others weightclass and win, and I don't see Floyd moving up to super middleweight, or Joe moving down to light middleweight, considering he is currently at light heavyweight. That being said Mayweather would probably take it on if the money was right and probably win, he is the greatest boxer of this generation.
This is however beyond the point, the ONLY fight calzaghe should take is a fight with Chad Dawson for the title, which would officially make him a 2 weight world champion
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Subterranean
What are you on about? Jones has only just started to lose fights, 4 in his last 5 after yesterday, how are you gonna talk about longevity when Roy jones Jr was world champion in 1993 and won world titles at FOUR diffrent weight classes since then up to 2005??
I love Calzaghe and i stress it's not his fault that all the greatest opponents seem to be well past it, and that's the case in all weight classes above welterweight in my opinion.
Why don't Calzaghe go to heavyweight? ala Jones? He could take out David Haye for a start (or attempt too) He'd never make the a light enought weight to fight Mayweather.
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FERGYSAUR - are you daft or what? Mayweather is retired and is about 30 pounds too light.
Why not make him fight Hatton 8-)
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It all depends on which side of the story you choose to believe; the Americans who claim that JC ducked them or vice versa.
re 'The Big Fight':
Genuine boxing fans got little or no insight into either boxers abilities yetserday, only a confirmation of Joe's unmatched stamina and workrate, which is what won him the bout yesterday. At times, his inability to hurt RJJ was embarrassing. To throw near enough 1000 punches and not even wobble Jones is proof that Joe hasn't got a knockout punch.
For me, he's nowhere near HOF status.
Missed the boat years ago...
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First of all, congratulations on your win.
I am loathed to say this BUT if you continue now and lose your unbeaten record then you will always look back and say, "I wish I had stopped, as a champion, unbeaten". "Now I am remembered as the fighter who wouldn't stop until the inevitable came"!
I didn't think that Mike Tyson could be beaten and there were times when he looked indestructible... so go out with respect and a perfect record, after all, you have beaten men who had a perfect record and where are they now in the history books!?
I wish you total respect!
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I think Joe was well managed by those who made sure he fought mostly in the UK
I think that the stupidity of running over th Vegas or wherever is not in best interest of British fighters
The judging and refereeing is dodgy and often the climate is a killer if one is not used to that heat and that alone has cost Britisg boxers big time in the past
Joe also is one who is not intimidated by the Yanks though I think showboating is stupid and dangerous if entertaining
There is nothing left to prove now and time to retire money is not everything in life
I think Joes place in all time greats is pretty secure and as we age injury is more likely
Not many age as well as Hopkins he usually can get super fit as can Joe but Joes hands have been damaged etc
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Inability to hurt RJJ?! Im sorry but that man was hurt!! Ask jeff lacy if calzaghe cant hurt you....RJJ was a bumbling mess by the 7th. Ok Joe does not have one punch knockout power, he has had many problems with his hands in his career and it has shaped his fighting style.
but believe me RJJ is sore today!! I suggest forza that you dont know much about boxing and can only appreciate a punch if its a bomb!
Bhop wasnt hurt, cos he wasnt hit so much, but RJJ got a pounding
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Fights 46
Wins 46
Wins by KO 32
Losses 0
Draws 0
No contests 0
Those defeated include Chris Eubank, Jeff Lacy, Mikkel Kessler, Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones, Jr.
Last 2 fights have been in America.
There will still be Yanks who can't get over the fact that Joe is one of the best champions of all time. They will say Hopkins and Jones were past their peak but those guys still got into the ring confident of victory. And Joe is not that much younger than Roy.
A great performance last night from Joe- put Roy in his place - and cemented his place in history.
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i think mohamhhaad ally should come back and maybe fight nazeem hamed or do a tag team with ally and frayser tyson and bruno
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If Joe can continue his tirless work rate and ceaseless attack lhe should continue to fight, his chin is up to it and it's simply down to hunger and desire. I think his dad should invite allcomers to a fight in WALES...his fans and his country deserve it, but mosf all he owes it to himself...Fantastic achievement, stay confident Joe, but stay humble and alert.
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WONDERWOMAN V MARGARET THATCHER
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Congratulations Joe you have beaten a washed up fighter 10 years past his prime. Roy Jones best days were in the 1990s. The Roy Jones who beat James Toney in 1993 is a million miles from the fighter that we saw against Calzaghe last night. Had Calzaghe fought Jones in his prime he would have been annihilated. As for retiring I think if Joe is a true champ he should have a rematch with Hopkins. For me Hopkins won their last fight but was robbed by a very dubious split decision.
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kev.... Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Great win against a legend. There is now only one opponent left between Joe and the accolade of being the best ever.
He needs to fight Ali. I know his management may consider this to be a risk, but it a risk they need to take. If he beats Ali, we will know Joe is the best.
The only danger is an outbreak of pensioners being mugged in Wales, as given his past record, Joe could be in the frame and get picked up by the law.
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I would like to see Joe fight Kessler and Dawson next year. Dawson is another overhyped us fighter but Kessler would be very very dangerous. But to be honest as much as that would add to his record it does get to the point when you think why should he bother?
If he beat both next year and say beat Hoppo again (and i believe he would win all 3) he would still have everyman and his dog banging on about how he shouldve fought Trinidad and Bhop and RJJ in their prime. Lets just get this straight shall we. Joe couldnt have got those fights. He was in peak around 2 years ago. All the others were in peak 10 years ago. That is a huge gap. Its just unfortunate that he wasnt peaking at the same time. He cant be blamed for that tho. To be honest i think 10 years ago he wouldve been beat by Hoppo and RJJ but thats because they were at the top of their game and he wasnt. The top guys around now are Kessler, Dawson and supposedly Pavlik. Everyone knows Joe would beat all of them so why not give the guy his dues? Its not his fault that the current crop are nowhere near his or RJJ standards.
I would like to see him fight Kessler, Pavlik and Dawson in that order next year. That then would see him go down as a true great.
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"Congratulations Joe you have beaten a washed up fighter 10 years past his prime. Roy Jones best days were in the 1990s. The Roy Jones who beat James Toney in 1993 is a million miles from the fighter that we saw against Calzaghe last night. Had Calzaghe fought Jones in his prime he would have been annihilated. As for retiring I think if Joe is a true champ he should have a rematch with Hopkins. For me Hopkins won their last fight but was robbed by a very dubious split decision."
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To be honest your comments dont really have any merit if you honestly think Bhop won that fight. How can you hardly throw a punch and take more punches than you ever have and win the fight?
Maybe Joe wouldve been taken apart if hed fought RJJ 15 YEARS AGO!
Do you not see how stupid that comment is? Joe peaked a few years ago. Not 15!
Its like saying if Joe had fought Leaonard in his prime he wouldve got beat.
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Don't agree. If Joe chooses to fight again it will be because he feels he can win that fight. Losing isn't in his vocabulary and he won't rush into a fight he doesn't beleive he can win.
I hope he fights again in Wales because he is a true great and deserves a truly grat send off
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Joe is a great boxer, but to be remembered as a legend, he must do rematches. Every legendary boxer has done at least one rematch. Joe has one good fight left in him. A rematch against B-Hop at Cardiff and then retire would be the most sensible next move.
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Joe Calzaghe (senior) thought that Hopkins won the fight with Joe by a mile.
I assume then that his opinion does not have any merit.
Joe should fight Pavlik and get knocked out in Round One, and then retire.
If two old lads are putting him down in the first round..............
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I say well done to Joe,
a great effort over the years defending his title and for the entertainment he has brought to his fans.
It`s true to say that he has beaten Hopkins and JJR when they are well past their best but that can`t be helped. Fewer and fewer truly great fights are happening these days with boxers in their prime coming together due to the politics of boxing. Although it wud be sad to see them make their farewells both JC and JJR shud both retire......especially JJR.
Was a shame to see a boxer that was so amazing, labour through a fight like that and he shud bow out knowing he has nothing to prove and his place as a legend is assured and so to JC in his own right.
Sadly the boxing fans are left with even less decent fights to watch and have to Pay-per-view to watch bums who wouldn`t come close to some of the fighters who were around in days gone by.
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I think Calzaghe should just retire now. I don't think he has anything to gain from fighting Hopkins or Kessler again, or fighting Pavlik when Hopkins destroyed him.
Calzaghe has nothing to prove, he has fought the best names out there, you can now argue all day and all night long about his claims to 'greatness'
46 pro fights- undefeated. Joe can look back on his career and say he did alright.
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The yellow belly dragon strikes again..who will Joe Calzaghe fight next Ali? I can't believe that someone who dodged the top fighters when they were in their prime is being praised for beating them when they are using zimmmer frames...not to mention these old guys are taking him the distance. No wonder people don't watch boxing anymore, we know real champs when we see them, who don't duck out of the real fights just so that they can have a nice payday later on. K1 has a much better format, last man standing is the champ..end of story!
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Joe's 'showboating' is actually a tactic I think.
It seemed clear that when he was doing his 'showboating', all he was doing was urging Jones to hit him so therefore, Calzaghe can dodge and counter-punch.
Like he said in the interview at the end, that's the way he fights.
I personally hope he retires. He's beaten Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins (who beat Pavlik) and now Jones, what else is there to prove?
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The reality is that he chose to stay in Wales when the big fights were out there. Now there are money making fights but not reputation enhancing fights. Fair enough he walks away with a secure future, but not with a reputation as one of the greats. Beating a couple of decent standard fighters in Lacy and Kessler, and a couple of over the hill fighters in Hopkins and Jones is the sum total of his record at the very top level. Why do you thik there is even a debate , and why are he and his dad so prickly about this topic, if there wasn't an awful lot of truth in the subject. The reality is that Calzaghe/Kessler was no better than Minter/Finnegan. Difference is that was for a British title.
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Sensational whatver are you talking about Joe dad thought Bhop won, where do you get such rubbish! If Bhop was doing so well in that fight how come he had to feign a low blow to get a rest, it was lucky for him it was an american ref who wanted to help him. Any other ref would have made him stop trying to cheat and made him fight on. So when he couldn't get the rest he was after he would have been beat by an even bigger margin . And for those who keep saying he should have fought them in their prime but he dodged them. Get you facts right the fight with bhop was nearly signed and sealed years ago untill Bhop started making stupid demands! You folk only see what you want to see thats why you never give him credit. Americans hate being second best thier ego's really carn' handle it!
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If Bhop was so over the hill how come he as just wiped thefloor with pavlic! You are just talking tosh
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modernavatar7, the majority of the people posting about Joe not being a great and not taking the big fights are British. Forget Hopkins, Joe fought no one of real note and never ventured outside Wales until the end of his career when there were no super fights. You can't fool all the people all the time .........
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Joe is not like the American boxers...he will not fight on past his peak for the money. He has more honour than that. He will retire undefeated. Well done Joe...yet again you outclassed your opponent.
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i dont think that hopkins is "past it" at all. his win against the "next big thing" kelly pavlik and his close loss to calzaghe prove that he is a great champion still at his prime. his age doesnt matter, just look at his performances.
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To doubt that Joe was and is not a great fighter is absolute nonsense.
Not only has he a great record but he has managed to stay in terrific shape due to discipline and dedication
I do not get involved with uninformed comments for the same reason I would not give medicine to a corpse
Make no mistake Joe is a very clever boxer and has great hand speed
His method of hitting puzzled me but he beat some very good fighters and Hopkins was no has been being in my opinion the best defensive boxer since Ali, he cam make anyone look bad as he did with Kelly who should not fight outside his weight class
I watched the BH fight several times and think it was pretty clear Joe won in spite of some clever dodging and bluffing by Bernard
If Pavlik is foolish enough to fight Joe at LH he will lose I think as needs more experience at the very top.
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'Fights 46
Wins 46
Wins by KO 32
Losses 0
Draws 0
No contests 0
Those defeated include Chris Eubank, Jeff Lacy, Mikkel Kessler, Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones, Jr. '
so what he only fought 41 losers....5 good names an 2 of em are o.a.p's.....i love joe as much as the rest....but he needs to calm himself a bit, as for the showboating that was rediculously disrespectful.....be like ronaldo boasting about dribbling round a 1 legged kid.... people forget rjj in his prime was throwin combos like joe except they were rippin heads off, whens the last time joe made someone go down for the count...even against lacy who he whooped even more than rjj he couldnt get him down for the count. throwin 1000 punches is great but he onli landed double what rjj did an rjj threw half as many....be like chelsea shooting every opportunity they gt regardless of whether the ball went over wide or on target an then sayin there the most attackin team ever. i dont think rjj ever went in there for anything except for the payday...he ceratinly didn go there to box...if anything he jus proved joes punches (apart from the 1 where he got cut) dont really do that much, theres just lots of them.
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Some terrible comments on this post. Show Calzaghe the respect he deserves, only in Britain would we put down one of our own like this.
And for comments on power, Jones said himself that Calzaghe hits alot harder than he thought. Thats what boxing is, showing your skills, adapting, the ability to move and throw combinations, punches in bunches
the lack of knowledge by some on here is laughable
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Rather than listen to the very boring Joe's not a legend debate. Surely the question is whether or not its actually possible for him to secure legend status with any of the fights out there?
I think he could quite easily mop up the four light heavy weight division titles (in two years and three/four fights) and go 50-0.
But would this make him a legend?
I think JC may become a victim of time, his peak is late and much like Tyson is the late 80's and Lewis later on, there is simply no-one left to challenge him?
If it was me, I'd take the money fights and the titles (beat marciano, go 50-0) and get out......
pointing people to the record who talk about legends...
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Well done Joe. Can't believe there is so many negative comments on here.
Enjoyed the fight but some of the showing off was a bit cringe worthy, especially when Jones was blinded in one eye by blood.
I think the adrenaline was talking when he said he would go home and think about his next move, he will surely retire after this.
Now off to bed!!
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Tenipurist and RichMJ79....
You talk about the showboating and as Rich said Jones did it to his foes, Ali did it, all the greats have.
The fact that you mention Jones was injured and it wasnt fair and etc etc seems odd seeing as:
a) if Jones was really that bad then the fight can be stopped
b) If Jones was really that bad then his corner could have thrown in the child.
To use the old phrase "if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen"
I think its unfortunate that right now there are no real equal fighters for Joe. The youngster are as you have mentioned still learning the trade and should get swatted by flies if they fight Joe and its either Youngsters or has beens.
I hope he decides to hang up his gloves and leave boxing with that priceless unbeaten record!
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Congratulations to Joe Calzaghe. While his showboating was a little over the top, you have to give him credit for getting off the canvas in round one and going on to dominate the fight.
However, I did not enjoy the fight at all. I was a huge fan of Roy Jones Jnr during the '90s and watching him take punch after punch didn't give me any pleasure. He may still have the odd moment of magic but his legendary speed has slowed down to a mere human rate and his reactions are nowhere near what they were.
In his peak he would have beaten Calzaghe without a doubt but an undefeated record over the amount of time Calzaghe has fought is amazing. It owes a lot to ability but one also has to say, some extremely clever matchmaking.
He should now retire. The longer he fights the more chance of defeat!
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If you actually pay any attention to the quality of opponents Hopkins faced during his reign in MW, and the quality of opponents he faced in the last couple of years and won against (Winky, Tarver, Pavlik, with the latter two being slightly overrated, but still miles better than anyone Hopkins fought in his supposedly prime period with an exception of Tito who was at his best when Hopkins beat him), it could be argued that Hopkins was at least as good as, if not better than he ever was when he faced Joe. Just look at it differently. Both Joe and Bernard looked bad in that fight. Was that because both of them (who looked very good in all fights before and after that one) suddenly aged during and only during that fight, or was it because they were facing quality opponents in each other? (Hopkins was facing the fittest fighter of this generation, and Calzaghe was facing a true defensive master.)
Roy Jones Jr is a totally different story. He has definitely aged, and he is certainly not as good as he once was. However, you should remember that he was actually in a good shape for yesterday's fight (unlike when he faced Tarver or Johnson when he was weight drained after coming back down from HW.) And you should also question whether or not he really was "that" good in his prime. I mean, was he really a superman? Jones' win against Toney was impressive (though Toney was not in his natural weight class), but when Jones beat Hopkins, Bernard was still inexperienced. That was TWO YEARS AND SIX FIGHTS BEFORE Hopkins won his first world title! And remember that we are talking about Hopkins who lost his debut fight. His career didn't start off that well. He really got better and better as he aged. Mike McCallum was certainly way past his prime when Jones beat him, so who else has be beaten? Montell Griffin was actually very good (he has beaten Toney twice), but he wasn't a great. Anyone else? The only fight which come to my mind is against John Ruiz, and that was not so long ago. (Ruiz is underrated. He was not a great HW champ, but he was better than what many people claimed.) What I am trying to say is that while we cannot deny that Roy is no longer what he once was, I am not convinced that he was actually that much better in his prime than he was yesterday against Calzaghe. Prime Calzaghe v prime Jones would have been a great fight, but as someone said above, with Calzaghe's ability to adapt his style, I am actually leaning 60-40 towards Calzaghe win. Those who say that prime Jones would have demolished prime Calzaghe probably think that prime Marciano or prime Ali would have knocked out prime Vitali Klitschko in two rounds.
One thing which I do actually agree with Calzaghe haters above is that the way he mocked Jones was disrespectful and shameful. It was probably a part of his game plan to encourage Jones to come at him, but he did not show any class in doing so. When Roy used to do the same, he actually looked good.
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He should retire and progress into the media or coaching. There is nothing sadder than watching these washed up fighters think they can still capture former glories. The USA should have showed him more respect ten years ago. At 36 only the middle men and promoters have anything to gain with him carrying on.
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Calzaghe is overrated. Fullstop. Sorry but fighting Jones who was clearly not interested in winning the fight. Calzaghe spent far too much of his years hiding in Wales when he could have travelled to the USA and fought Jones and Hopkins in the 1990s.
Calzaghe was damn lucky to have the judges on his side against the 43 year old Hopkins who appeared composed and unaffected.
So defeating has beens in 2008 is not enough to prove Calzaghe is a legend. It proves he is good but not good enough.
End of story.
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Cannot believe the British Media hype over this. No Wonder the world sees British Atheletes as such jokes.
Calzaghe is good, fact. But fact is Calzaghe beat a RJJ who is not even a shadow of his formerself.
Calzaghe is such a talented boxer, but it's pathetic how he is fighting all these guys are who are on the decline and passed their prime.
It's sad the only half-decent opponent he has gone Prime v Prime with is Kessler (who is nothing special). That was only last year.
Before that Calzaghe was defending the poor WBO Belt for 10 years. Where the big boys RJJ, Hopkins, Tarver, Winky etc. were going Prime v Prime against the best. Calzaghe should have been there, but never did.
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aint people so fed up with the calazaghe haters - im personally fed up with the washed up bernard and roy comments - bernard hopkins washed up, come on he recently beat pavlik - roy jones - is only 3 yrs older than joe so age is not an issue when comparing the fighters - washed up comments are thoughtless - so jeff lacy and mikkel should have beaten joe because joe is washed up because of his age ..... boxing becomes harder with age yes so what joe has achieved should be treated with more respected i think
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British boxers are all overrated.
This reminds me of Lennox Lewis who dodged Tyson through the 1980s and 1990s and then fights Tyson when Tyson can no longer give a damn about winning. Jones also appears to be going through the same 'Tyson phase'.
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Also reminds me of Amir Khan getting humiliated in the USA. Perhaps Khan should wait till his better opponents are on the decline and then challenge them like Calzaghe did.
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Before that Calzaghe was defending the poor WBO Belt for 10 years. Where the big boys RJJ, Hopkins, Tarver, Winky etc. were going Prime v Prime against the best. Calzaghe should have been there, but never did.
--------------------------------------------------
This is the very fact that the British media will deliberately ignore.
The very fact that Calzaghe fans will not admit either
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Number 57 - How would child abuse stop a fight lol?
I think you meant the towel!
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Joe did well. He did what he had to do. But lets not get carried away. He beat the shell of a once outstanding fighter. Bottom line is Roy Jones is shot. As Joe himself wrote in his autobiography a few yrs ago, Roy is washed up. Jones arguably ranks along with Sugar Ray Robinson as the most outrageously talented fighter of all time His first round knockdown of Calzaghe gave a glimpse of what he would have done to Joe if they had fought when either man was nearer their prime. Calzaghe himself is past his prime. He simply has more left than the near 40 yr old RJJ who turned pro back in 1988. Contrary to the gushing praise he has received in the press and the awful cheerleading TV commentary, Joe did not put on an outstanding performance. Sure, he clearly won, thats all a fighter can do. But the signs of his own deterioration were clear. He like Jones should hang up his gloves. If he fights on, the next young capable fighter he meets would take that unbeaten record that he so cherishes
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Some of the comments posted are laughable. RJJ is being accused of being a 'washed up' fighter yet many people were predicting he would win the fight. I agree he is not the fighter he was but the simple fact is that he couldn't deal with Joe's speed and intensity.
Hopkins is now accused of being past his best, even though he has just beaten a highly rated Kelly Pavlick. Most of those in the know currently have Hopkins high on the list of lb for lb fighters.
Kessler was and is a great fighter in his prime. To date no one else has shown themselves capable of beating him.
Lacy was regarded as the best in the division - it was left to Joe to highlight his deficiencies.
A fighter can only beat what is put in front of him. JC has done this 46 times, 10 years as World champ. Check the records to see how difficult this is. Much as we would all like to know who would have won between JC and RJJ in their prime IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN any more than a fight between (say) Mayweather and Sugar Ray Leonard. A pointless argument. Fact is all Joe Calzaghe's opponents to date have come up short. And that is why he is a great.
Don't worry if you don't agree - give it five or ten years and you'll be looking back fondly on a legend.
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Sonofthedestroyer wrote....
Reminds me of Lennox Lewis who dodged Tyson in the 80s and 90s.....
Correction, Lennox never dodged anyone in his career. May I also remind you that Lennox turned pro in 1988...same as RJJ....when Iron Mike was already King of the HWs. Tyson was in prison when Lennox won his first crown. Lennox campaigned long and hard to fight Tyson when Mike was released and resumed his career. It is well documented that it was Tyson who constantly ducked Lewis and Bowe and opted to fight the likes of the china chinned Bruce Seldon and the slow and limited Bruno.
Like Calzaghe, Lewis did meet a past his prime Tyson. But unlike Calzaghe, easy pushovers and no mames were not part of his resume as HW champ. He even refused big money offers to fight old men like Foreman and Holmes. Instead, he concentrated on destroying the next generation of young hungry wannabees..Grant, Tua, Briggs, Golota, Rahman[all big punchers] He then turned his sights on Holyfied and Tyson
Lennox did not fight any bums. Calzaghe fought plenty. But it was his promoter, Warren who kept him away from the big punchers in the 12stone division and the likes of Toney, Hopkins, Jones & even a near his prime Brewer. I am not a Calzaghe fan but I believe that he wanted to fight the best and would have loved to have mixed it with them when they were all in their prime. He would have been very competitive against them all except RJJ.
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The problem here is that the same people who are moaning about Calzaghe's inability to KO his opponents are the same people who scream about sacking their manager when they lose a game. Completely misinformed.
The rules of boxing are simple; hit and don't get hit. Points are scored for aggression and punches landed. Hit your opponent more times and you win provided you are not KO'ed. KO's are a welcome respite from the judges scorecards.
Joe has demonstrated time and time again a mastery of these rules and pummels opponents with frighteningly quick hands and reflexes.
I think some people on here should bemoan the fact that people have not found a way to beat Calzaghe yet rather than focus on who Joe hasn't fought. Everyone has come up short so far... even the so called up-and-comers like Lacy and Kessler who were/still are formidable opponents.
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Observer,
you are an idiot, seriously, I have to only hope that you are posting like this to get a reaction etc
When RJJ and BHOP fought, Joe had JUST turned pro!! Its ridiculous to say that joe should have fought RJJ then he was a newbie 21 year old in his first days as a pro!!
Their careers and their respective peaks have come at very different times.
Its a tired old thing to say that calzaghe should have fought all the big boys bla bla and it shows a lack of knowledge of boxing history.
Im interested to see the future progress of Kessler as I believe it will prove how good calzaghe is.
Also, to the guy who said JC has to fight Pavilik who would knock him out in 1st round....the man who was completely mauled by the non-puncher himself! oh lordy
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sven ottke retired unbeaten . records dont tell the complete truth ,do they?
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To the Calzaghe fans, Joe was odds on favourite to win the fight.
The only question was...What did RJJ have left? I personally figured, not much and picked Joe to win a UD.
However, such was the level of RJJ's previous capacity as a fighter,I like many thought he would win if he could regain 50 to 60% of it.
To those who scoff at this, I say go onto google video and you tube, and watch some of Jones's earlier fights.
His almost preternatural blend of athleticsm, savage grace, speed and power were matched only by Sugar Ray Robinson. And to the younger posters, I do not mean Ray Leonard!
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You have to hand it to JC 46-0. He should retire now and just chillout. But when your unbeaten and been boxing all your life its hard to quit. I don't think they needed the money RJJ and Bhop, they are already hall of famers. Tese fights are just easy pay days with only losses the negative.
But take nothing away from JC, he has prove he is on a par with Lennox Lewis as Britain's best boxer. If he does carry on then Chad Dawson or Bhop will be a good final bout. Just because a boxer predicts another boxer will win or lose does not mean he cannot beat the boxer who wins despite not backing him. I still think the Bhop fight was a draw. Chad Dawson has a great work rate so it will be interesting to see him and JC fight.
Well done JC 46-0 FANS OR NO FANS CANNOT ARGUE WITH THAT!!!
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Future: BHop doesn't deserver another shot after his spoil fest in the first fight - would anyone who watched the first fight pay to watch a rematch? Jones doesn't deserve one either with such a wide margin. If he wants one more pay day it should be against Dawson for an official light heavy title.
Punch power: Joe may not contain knock out punch power any more but i suspect that's something to do with his history of hand injuries.
Legacy: In the last couple of years, Joe has unified the super-middle weight division, made the trip over the pond and then moved up to light-heavy. I personally just wished he'd done that 2-3 years earlier so he could've have cleaned up the light heavy div and maybe even made a late switch to crusier. If he'd done that we wouldn't even be having a debate about his status as an all time great.
Brilliant fighter - i'm 28 and he's right up there with the best pound for pound fighters i've seen in the last 10-20 years. I just think he's been badly advised earlier in his career and i haven't seen him in as many great fights as i should have.
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I should start by saying I didn't mean to demean Trevor Berbick, I was just imagining what Merkerson might say to Jones. Anyone who gets in the ring with a peak Mike Tyson has my respect...
Anyway, I've queued up for my five copies of Wednesday's NY Times and it's almost time to jump in a cab for JFK. But before I go...
There's not much point in answering individual comments, as there seem to be two distinct points of view following the fight. I have to admit to being quite shocked by some of the vitriol being thrown in Calzaghe's direction. The bloke's a fantastic boxer - why can't people just accept that fact? Yes, perhaps there are fights he should have had that he didn't, but the bottom line is he did what he had to do last night and I can't think of many British fighters down the years who could have done the same, shot Roy Jones or not.
As for the showboating, it's never particularly nice to see, but I would point out that Roy Jones was sticking his tongue out and mugging to the crowd after tagging Calzaghe early in the fight, and you shouldn't have much sympathy for the American. This is a man who once yawned in an opponent's face in the ring and played a basketball match on the day of a fight.
Personally, I think Calzaghe's got one big fight left in him, but I think he should resist the temptation as any fight is a risk. And I think in time people will look back on his career and recognise what a fine fighter he was.
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Joe won't retire. He'll go for more big money fights, and rightly so. He's spent years getting to where he is, and he's now at the stage where he can make millions in every fight. Of course he won't pack it in now. Nobody in his position would turn down an offer for another fight if the paycheck was big enough. It's human nature to keep going, where money is concerned, until you do eventually get beaten.
It's nice to talk about the fairytale ending, retiring undefeated, but the reality is that money talks and that's why so few boxers do retire undefeated. Joe has 2 choices - retire undefeated, now, or - retire richer. I know which one I would rather do if I was him.
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Very wise words Ben.
I hope Joe calls it a day now. He has shown the world time and again that he is the real deal.
The only reason to fight on would be for what? The money ... does Joe need it? Th adulation ... could he get any more? HIs relentless attitude has even won the hearts of America now after a mere 2 fights on their soil, no mean feat in boxing.
Swap the gloves for a mic Joe ... just don't go with Setanta or you'll have a restricted audience!
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Pete - I think Joe has more honour than that and cares too much about the legecy he has spent years building to just go chasing bucks. He is different to these American "legends" who continue to enter the ring as old men. I think he will retire very soon. And quite right too.
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What a bunch of pathetic morons posting all this negativity about one of Britain's greatest sportsmen of recent years.
If you've got nothing good to say then say nothing at all.
Joe - thanks for everything, you are an inspiration to the whole of Wales !
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first of all most of his recent fights have been one on points and i have not seen any unforgettable showings. also why does he fight all of these old guys that are not in their prime
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fergysaur comment 16 and 18 - boxing has weight divisions and if you don't know that calzaghe can never fight mayweather probably shouldn't be commenting here!
on a serious note, calzaghe should have been a great but i think lacked self-confidence. only now that everyone is talking about legacy, he finds himself in a sitation where he wants to prove a point - i think his dad enzo does too - and this could be dangerous for his perfect record!
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Having read back over some of the pro-US comments I think I should add my view.
If RJJ had beaten Joe, the message from you would have been RJJ had just taken the biggest scalp in imperious style to prove he is still on top of the game. Instead you now label one of your greatest (one of the greatest) fighters as a washed out old man. You seem to change your reality to suit the result.
You also have no idea of history with your suggestions on who Joe should have fought over the years ... what next, pick on Ali for never having beaten Tyson?
Just a little humility and respect (something your president-elect has in abundance) and accept that Joe is one of the greats alongside RJJ and the like.
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You have to remember that money makes fights and when RJJ and BHOP were at their perceived best there was no money for a Calzaghe fight. There are people in the States who have only picked up on him this year, so why should they have fought him over here 5 years ago when there was little to gain and a lot to lose. Now the tables have been turned and as Calzaghe is the World number 1 he is the draw, and there is big money to fight him, with little to lose and a lot to gain.
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Only in the UK do we knock and critisize our sporting champions so readily. can't we just be happy that they're winners? if he'd lost, all the doubters would've said he's not got that ruthless streak...just 'cos he showboated a bit - what do you want? him to apologise for winning? no-one complains when the yanks show a bit of arrogance! it's pathetic!! for God's sake, be happy we've got a winner! well done Joe, you're a true legend!
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SUPER, SUPER JOE, SUUUUUUPER JOE CALZAGHE
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I am British and Joe is a good guy and a good fighter. But let's be perfectly honest he hasn't fought anyone in their prime...Roy Jones was is well over the hill, as was Hpkins. It's not like the Hagler/Leonard/Hearns or Ali/Frazier/Foreman/Norton groupings who took eachother on.
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Fantastic Joe. Time to retire. The detractors would only be happy if you can invent a time machine Joe, and beat Ali at this prime, and even then they would probably find something to moan about or insist there should be a rematch.
Joe has done it against a number of world champs or ex world champs (bhop, jones, eubank, lacey, kessler, mitchell, brewer, woodhall). In numerous title defences he maintained consistency to avoid the surprise defeat which can hit champions. He has done more than enough to retire as undefeated world champ that reigned for over a decade. What more is required than that? He has done it against the new world champs and the older champs (bhop proved against Pavlik he was still a force). He may not have fought a Jones or all time classic champ in his pomp, and there are reasons for that but it didnt happen, it doesnt have to.
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It's sad that he gets so much criticism. Jones, Hopkins, and Tarver would never have fought him, because the money wasn't there 5 or 6 years ago.
Hopkins was in negotiations at one point, only to demand more money at the last moment.
The only thing you can question is the proposed Glen Johnson fight. Calzaghe hurt his hands in training and the fight was cancelled. Johnson then lost to Clinton Woods, meaning Joe had no reason to fight him. If Calzaghe was able to beat Johnson, he would have made more of a name in the states. But he couldn't, and he can't help that.
I don't think Jones would have outclassed Calzaghe if he was in his prime at all. Roy Jones beat 3 good fighters. Hopkins, Toney, and Griffin. When he fought some hard fighters, he lost, Tarver x 2, and Johnson.
Jones didn't know what to do once a fighter walked through his punches. He looked great against Calzaghe, until Calzaghe wasn't getting hurt anymore. Calzaghe would have hunted down Jones regardless of Jones' age, and it would have been a damn tough fight.
People now say it's disrespectful to showboat against Jones with a cut eye. I understand the fact he was cut, but Joe was making it an entertaining fight and so was Jones earlly on, as they promised. Pre-fight, you were all moaning that Calzaghe and Jones were too friendly. Then once Calzaghe looks to ruthlessly dominate Jones, you're all complaining.
Calzaghe beat whoever he faced,and for that reason is one of boxings finest. He beat EVERYONE available at super-middleweight. He waited for his chance against the big Americans, and beat them.
Now you all say Dawson should fight him. But if Calzaghe wins that, you'll say Dawson was overrated. just like Pavlik has all of a sudden become overrated after a loss to Hopkins.
Hopkins is the toughest L.Heavyweight out there, and Joe managed to win despite looking bad, which is some feat!
Calzaghe won't go down as a legend, because there have never been the opponents there to face. But he should be respected. To be a great you need a great era- something which boxing has lacked since the late 90's.
But does that mean we should knock him because he ain't an Ali?
Let's celebrate what he has achieved, and just feel saddened that people wouldn't fight him 5 years ago.
His fitness and workrate is the best out there, and would have given ANY fighter a problem, especially when he can survive knockdowns like he has.
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Listen to your mum Joe.
There's nothing left to prove.
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Joe Calzaghe should be seen as one of the best fighters Britain has ever produced and anyone that disagrees with this doesn't know much about boxing. They should stick to picking bits up in the paper and keep their opinions to the confines of their local rather than putting it on a forum for everyone to read.
The argument that he shouldn't be considered as a world great because he ducked fights is ridiculous. If he fought RJJ or Hopkins at their peak, he would have had less than 10 professional fights under his belt. He has pulled out of more fights than a lot of boxers but this is due to injuries to his hands. These injuries are real ones, rather than the 'injuries' that some fighters will use to get out of a fight. The fact that JC has continued fighting so well despite these problems should show people what a true champ he is. If he ducked fights in the past, you can level the same argument against RJJ and Hopkins and say why wait till they're so old to fight Calzaghe? If they wanted to fight him so much, they had the power to arrange it.
While it's true that he's fought mostly in Wales, why shouldn't he? After winning the WBO title in England against Eubank, it's down to him where he fights. If someone wants to take it, they can go to Wales and win it. If he needed to, I'm sure he would have been more than willing and able to go to America and beat anyone to get a world title.
46-0 speaks volumes and yeah he's fought nobodys in his time (why did he fight Manfredo Jr?!) but every great boxer has fought nobodys to keep their profile up and stay in the ring. How could he fight 46 fights against great boxers when there haven't been that many around? He's fought anyone brave enough to take him on and beat them all.
I don't know if Calzaghe now would have beaten RJJ of the mid-90s but I don't know if RJJ of the mid-90s would have beaten Leonard of the late 80s but the fact that these fights didn't take place is down to timing. Boxing's great to have a debate on but if you consider RJJ better than Calzaghe, fair enough and we'll never know, it doesn't mean Calzaghe doesn't deserve a great deal of respect and doesn't deserve the acclaim of respected boxing critics like Ring magazine.
Well done on remaining unbeaten Joe, one more fight in the Millenium Stadium would be great but who's left to fight without it being branded a retirement fight?
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The article is wrong in part, saying Calzaghe was unbeaten in amateur and prom. Joe was beaten in the amateurs 1990 Welsh ABA final against Michael Smyth.
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Joe probably ranks no 5 in the British all time - and just sneaks into the top 100 greatest ever.
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Calzagha had to fight Manfredo to raise his profile in the States... Manfredo was considered by the media to be the next big thing due to "The Contender" series... but those in the boxing world knew he didn't have the class to beat Calzaghe... for those interested Manfredo might be fighting Sakio Bika for the IBO title which should be a proper roughing up for the celebrity boxer. He did ok against Lacy but he is another boxer demolished by Calzaghe who looks a shadow of his former self.
I like the comment above which suggests that Ali should not be considered great because he never fought a prime Tyson or vice versa (tongue in cheek of course). It's amazing how in Britain we try to rewrite history when we should be recognising the true achievements of Calzaghe... I hope he retires because he has achieved everything... I hope he fights because he invariably entertains in one form or another.
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I didn't read all the responses, so appologies if I'm repeating something...
But why, given his astonishing record, has Calzaghe remained so low profile? I don't follow boxing, but I at least know of most of the 'big names', but until this weekend I was totally unaware of Calzaghe's achievements. Has he been fighting the wrong people, or has he deliberately remained out of the limelight?
(genuine question - if anyone knows the answer, then please....)
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Post 94 is a joke..I think i'll listen to the respected boxing experts out there and the hard to please american journalists who all unanimously agree that Joe is a great fighter and worthy of future hall of fame status.
There is a genuine lack of boxing knowledge being posted on here by some...a true class act.
As someone pointed out earlier, people change their opinions to suit the result.
A superb performance on Saturday Joe, Roy Jones was still ranked 6 in the world and was given a strong chance by many before the fight.
superb stuff
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It is Jone's fault they never met earlier...he would not come and fight in the UK. Instead he waited until he was passed it and then took the fight for the money...not exactly the stuff of champs is it.
I am really happy that Joe destroyed him. I am also really happy that all these Jone's fans are bitter about the result and can't admit that Joe is world class and a legend. World champion for about 12 years...never lost as a pro...argue all you like but the facts are there for all to see.
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I've just watched the fight and I thought it was a great bout, even if RJJ slowed up considerably after the cut (who wouldn't?). It certainly didn't look to me like Calzaghe was on the wane; why shouldn't he fight on whilst he still can? I, for one, would like to see a local legend continue....
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Why can't people just be supportive of Joe and recognise that a BRITISH boxer has just got 46-0. Okay, RJJ is not the fighter he has years ago but he is still a good boxer with the ability to mix it with whoever is put in front of him. Bhop proved recently that he is not over the hill by taking apart Pavlik who is supposed to be one of the best fighters today yet people still choose to nit pick at Joe's achievements. When JC took apart Kessler, that was a masterclass performance and it was the same when he beat Lacy but people still feel the need to see the bad points in all of these victories!. I hear people say all the time that Lennox Lewis was a brilliant fighter and he beat the best, which he did, but nobody ever refers to his defeats against Rahman and McCall, which were very poor performances. I know he beat them in the end but he still lost to 2 mediocre fighters in his career. Yet Joe is unbeaten, has beaten whoever has stepped in front of him and done it in style yet this is still not good enough. Does he need to lose a fight before people actually recognise him as one of the greats?!!
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Basically Calzaghe did well in the fight, although it was pretty much over before the first bell sounded.
His next fight should be up against an up and comer such as Pavlik or Dawson. People say that Pavlik is crap because he lost to BHop- rubbish, he will be so motivated to fight Joe that I reckon it will be a fantastic fight. I also think that if Joe fought Dawson in say 8 or 9 months that Dawson could end his unbeaten run. Joe has to be careful with Boxers with power, as we saw with RJJ and BHop he can be knocked down.
I think that Joe has muddied the waters over his legend or HoF status because of how unprepared RJJ was. (A la Rocky vs Clubber Lang 1st time round). He needs to beat one of these new boys or maybe even both to show that he is the king of the 00's.
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To shut the Americans up JC should fight Pavlik in Wales- smash him to bits. However it would have been better if Pavlik hadn't been beaten by the previously executed Hopkins, as there would be the obvious "Undefeated" tag for the promoters to shout about.
Then please JC retire. Lewis got out at the right time and stayed out and looks to be enjoying life. JC should end his career at the top leaving all the guys who want another chance crying themselves to sleep for the rest of their lives!
I think he's just making sure that his legacy is secure before he hangs his gloves up or seeing if there is a BIG money fight that will break records out there like what Wayweather does every year (Wait a minute if Mayweather puts on a couple of pounds and JC looses a few we may have a cracker of a fight)
Joke aside JC leave while your faculties are still intact- it takes one punch to end your career/ your life.
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Sorry, still feel he has beaten another old and smaller man.
Joe has been very lucky that his division has carried very few top class fighters in his reign.
I like Joe and you can only beat what is placed in front of you.
However you gloss it over, the records show that there are very few if any real top class fighters in their prime on Joe's list.
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Many of JC's fights follow the same pattern. The opponent is announced and people say it will be a tough fight. JC wins and suddenly the "tough" opponent is a third-rate bum.
Nothing left to prove JC, go out now. You'll never know the "one fight too many" until after it happens.....
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It makes me laugh when people say boxers are past their best!
They are only washed up when they lose or fight lesser names and perform badly.
If we go on this basis then Calzaghe was finished before the Lacy fight!!! So last night was just a fight between two has beens!
Then of course take into account the washed up Hopkins who has just beaten the untouchable Pavlik and you can see how easy it becomes to read in total amazement some of the comments on here.
Calzaghe is a true great. He was in the ring with a true legend and the has been Jones Jnr would of knocked any other fighter out with that punch last night. Calzaghe rose again and when he got to his feet we witnessed the transformation of a man into an animal.
How he does it I do not know but the showboating was just his way of saying to Jones that no matter what you do, you are going to lose now.
As a Brit it has been a privilege to watch Joe over the years and it will only be in years to come that we realise how special he was.
Thanks for the memories Joe. A Brit that never lost!
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Joe should retire. He has nothing more to prove. The longer he carries on, the more chance his unblemished recrod will go. He doesn't need the cash so he should just finish on a high.
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Just got back home... little bit depressing to be honest. Glad to see people have become a little bit more measured since yesterday.
john951 - I didn't say he was unbeaten as an amateur, I said he's unbeaten as an amateur and pro for the last 18 years - he won his last 50 odd unpaid fights. Sorry for the confusion.
Anyway, I'm off for a kip - thanks for all your involvement over the past week, we couldn't do it without you... and well done Joe...
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Joe should retire really, there is nothing else left for him.
There was the possible rematch with Jones in Cardiff but the way he demolished Jones has put paid to that idea surely.
Hopkins has been ebaten and is only getting older.
Pavlik was a potential opponent before getting it handed to him by Hopkins, realistically he has to exorcise that rematch and win it well to get back in the frame.
Kessler would be intriguing but has been done before, won't draw and won't add anything to Calzaghe's resume at the moment.
Dawson would be the best option for a sporting spectacle. Unbeaten, young and hungry having just beaten Johnson and Tarver but you can't help feeling that it is too soon for a Dawson/Calzaghe fight to really be top box office. If Dawson could go on to beat Kessler and either Pavlik or Hopkins then it would be a huge fight, unfortunately that will put it into 2010 and there is no way that Joe should still be in the rign by then.
No, in all honesty Joe by winning as convincingly as he did has left himself no credible option but retirement, he should take it and concentrate on working with his dad in the gym to train up Wales next generation of champions.
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ichi 1
Did you watch the Hopkins fight? Calzaghe lost it by a street - however, the decision was what it was and move on we must. These things happen.
What is undoubted is that Calzaghe won on Saturday by 3 streets, an avenue and 4 roads - no doubt.
As you say - retire now with the record you have. Don't worry about what people say - just point to the record book!
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I think Joe should retire now, as should Jones Jnr. But I would put my money on him fighting one more time in Cardiff!!
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I think Joe should fight Chad Dawson. There is no such thing as a 'fairytale ending' in boxing, and nor would I want there to be.
I much prefer the scenario of boxers fighting until they are beaten, it's a humbling thing to watch a boxer grow, bloom and then wither in the autumn of their careers. The perfect way for Calzaghe, or any boxer, to end their career is by way of defeat.
That Calzaghe may retire now, when so close to the holy grail of boxing that is Rocky Marciano's record, is absurd. I agree that Calzaghe has achieved everything and beat everyone who was claiming to be above him, but he should now play the part of the King for the next 2 or 3 years.
Carefully pick a challenger, no rematches, only fight in Cardiff, and make any challenger beat him on home ground IF he is to be beaten before the eclipsing the 49 fight record.
I do not agree with the sentiment behind Lennox Lewis retiring and thus remaining forever young, or whatever the idea is behind retirement at the top. Lewis was the best of a pretty bad bunch and had about 2 years of supremacy at heavyweight, during which time he dodged a couple of handy fighters like John Ruiz, and fought flappers like Botha and Michael Grant.
Whereas Muhammed Ali fought on and lost 5 times in his career. Whereas he should have retired after losing to Spinks, he then went on to lose to Holmes and Berbink after winning the rematch vs Spinks. Those losses did little to dissuade people that Ali was 'the greatest'.
Calzaghe's fight with Jones Jr was a fantastic contest and only the bloodied eye of Jones took the sting out of a very evenly contested fight up until then. It was always going to be a case of Calzaghe trying to outpoint a big-hitting Jones, but Jones lost his ability to judge distances once his left eye was constantly blinded by his own blood.
Calzaghe should aim for 50 fights, 50 wins, and only fight in Cardiff from now on. It's upto the challengers to topple the King in his castle.
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I thought it was a entertaining fight particulary before Jones got that bad cut in round 7. Than Calzaghe took over and dominated but up to then it was pretty even. I think Calzaghe speed and amount of punches just overwhelmed Jones, who showed flashes of the old Jones, as at times his single shots were just fantastic. Unfortunently time catches up with us all particulary the great fighters - so maybe Calzaghe will look at Jones and think perhaps its time to quit - but he isnt looking like a shot fighter and i think he could fight on for a few more years if he wanted to.
Couple of points to from this blog - people have mentioned Calzaghe was disrespectful to Jones, it was clear that they were both having a good time in there partculary the 1st half of the fight - They co-promoted and are splitting the fight 50/50. They are friends and have a great deal of respect for each other - if i boxed one of my friends i sure we would both do some showboating as well - in no way was it malcilous or nasty. However i would have stopped the fight as it was clear that Jones couldnt see out of that eye and somebody shoulh ave stopped it - either the ref, ringside doctor or Jones corner. I think even Calzaghe was surprised it carried on. But this is the calibre of fighter that Roy Jones is, a proper warrior.
Respect is due to both fighters, Calzaghe deserves his place at the top table alongside Jones, i cant believe people are complaining about 46-0, you can only fight who is in front of you - and towards the end of his career he got the big fights.
I have a sneaky feeling he may go for one more farewell fight at home but who does he fight? I cant see the Pavlik fight happening now he has been beat up by Hopkins, he cant fight at light heavy and Calzaghe wont go back down to super middle, so it wont happen - and he wont fight Hopkins again as it was a boring fight and he doesnt seem to want to do business with him again. Maybe if Carl Froch wins on Dec 6th than a big domestic finale with no title on the line in in the spring/summer at the Millennium Stadium, as froch has said he would go to light heavy to fight him?
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You cannot knock Joe's 46-0. But with a crowd of only 14000 and not much hype made about this fight. He should retire now or face Chad Dawson and cal it a day. But really its Joe's decision. Yes RJJ was washed and teh BHop fight if JC and his fans are "HONEST" was a draw at the least. The big question mark was why did JC not fight RJJ,Toney and BHop years ago. Granted there is politics in boxing buy why did he not decamp from Team Warren and promote himself. Its for that reason that Lennox Lewis
is still Britains greatest boxer. Yes he lost twice but he avenged the fights. JC came back from a 1st round knock down. But with the exception of the unbeaten FMJ, you alwsy want to see how a boxer responds from a defeat. All in all JC is a legend and I never used to rate him. Well done son!!!
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Joe's win over Jeff Lacy is his best performance by a mile. Let's be honest; Hopkins and Jones were way past their prime, and Joe was lucky to get the decision against Hopkins.
Although he won fair and square against Kessler last year, the Dane's punches were far more hurtful than Calzaghe's. The Dane will win if they fight again.
Joe is a good fighter but greatly overestimated. What sets him apart from his rivals is his incredible work rate. He threw nearly 1000 punches against Jones.
btw two fighters called Calzaghe and Jones, one of them is Welsh.... and it isn't Jones!
Quit now, Joe. If you haven't earned enough money there are other ways to earn some more. With his good looks and personality he could be a TV celeb of some sort.
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Leonard is the next logical step - no not Benny, silly, SRL.
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Many congratulations to Joe Calzaghe, following his unanimous points victory over Roy Jones Jnr. He will certainly go down in history, as one of Britain's greatest ever boxers. His 46-0 undefeated record is almost unbelievable.
Taking nothing away from Calzaghe, he is a superb boxer. Obviously not a spring chicken at 36 years of age, I am disappointed that Calzaghe fought Bernard Hopkins and Jones Jnr, as such a late stage of their illustrious careers (43 years and 39 years respectively). Would Calzaghe have beaten both men during their prime fighting years? I doubt it, but such a question will no doubt continue to raise fierce debate now and long after the Welshman has retired.
If Calzaghe does not retire, perhaps he could fight Chad Dawson or any other light heavyweight world champion. Failing that, Calzaghe could fight the talented Carl Froch. However, I get the feeling that the Welshman simply is not interested in sharing a ring with a fighter who has has yet to really prove himself on the world stage (Froch gets his chance to win a world title, when he faces Canadian Jean Pascal, for the vacant WBC supermiddleweight championship in december).
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I have no doubt that the following will generate unparalleled abuse in my direction, but here goes (!)
1. Calzaghe is not an entertaining fighter., nor has he a charismatic personaility (not his fault). He is an excellent boxer, but has fragile hands so doesn't knock people out. Contast this with Hatton...the Americans love him because of his personality and boxing style.
2. Boxers don't arrange their fights (unless they self promote) - promoters do. Boxers who aren't exciting do not make promotors any money, so they don't get the 'prize' fights. Hopkins/Jermaine Taylor demaded more money when they were planned to meet Joe years ago....quite rightly in my opinion cos Hopkins/Taylor were the draw.....not Joe.
3. Calzaghe's 'showboating' may well have been an attempt to convince the viewing public...particularly the Americans...that he is an entertainer. Sorry....but shaking your arse an sticking your chin out in front of a half blind former champion is disrespectful and stupid. He didn't do himself any favours......and I'm Welsh.
4. Please god man retire. You have convinced yourself that you are a legend so what does it matter what I or anyone else thinks.
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I would like to see him continue. He should forget about his record, because that is not what it is about. If he enjoys the boxing, he should continue. If he wants to spend more time with his family and fullfill other goals, he should finish. He should not continue just to preserve his record and leagacy. His personal enjoyment should always come before that.
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People who think that Calzaghe would not have beaten Hopkins 10 yrs ago are living in a dream world.
Did anyone actually watch Hopkins then?, Joe would have beaten the 1993 version of Hopkins, and the late nineties version, and the 2004 version, so what version do people think would have beaten Calzaghe?
Calzaghe throws too many punches for Hopkins to ever have beaten him, he would have had to knock him out to win.
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Little doubt he's top 3 if not #1 P4P fighter around at the moment.
He'll fight once more - O2 next year I suspect.
I can't understand why people moan that if he'd fought Hopkins / Jones Jr in their primes he would have lost. It's the same as Lewis vs. tyson in his prime, it's pointless speculation - noone can or will EVER know for sure.
It's probably a fair comment to say Hopkins is fighting as good now as he was 5 years ago. Pavlik crumbled in his last fight - he will go the same way as Lacy mentally and won't top the bill again.
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Joe can only fight what is put in front of him. If the standard at his weight is not in the same league as Joe, then that is out of his control. He has fought and beaten everyone worth facing. Is there any point in fighting again, money perhaps?
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Calzaghe did well, I agree -- but Jones was a shadow of the fighter he used to be. Not enough to make him a legend in my eyes, but he'll be a hero to the Welsh (rightly so) and to thousands of British boxing fans (less rightly so).
My point made before the fight about British fans buying into the hype still stands. Ask any respected American pundit (e.g. Larry Merchant, Howard Lederman or Emmanuel Steward) for the names of a dozen British boxing legends, and see if they can come up with them...
BTW, here's a quote from HBO Boxing's web site:
"No legs. No reflexes. No chance.
That was the sad state old Roy Jones, Jr. found himself in last night at Madison Square Garden. The things that had for so many years made him unbeatable had deserted him, as they do all men with time, and all that was left was a technically flawed stationary target for Joe Calzaghe to stab and punch at for 12 rounds."
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I think the criticism of JC is extremely harsh. If JC says that it was reasons beyond his control that led him to not come to America and fight the legends sooner, then you have to believe him. I don't think for one minute he himself avoided it, I think he was over-protected by the people around him I.E. Frank Warren and co.
People saying you have to have re-matches to be considered a legend is laughable. You don't have to beat someone more than once to prove you're better than them - I'd say that's only the case in close encounters.
I would be happy to see JC fight again, because I know that he only would if he felt he could and really wanted to win.
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Post 101, don't know how to break this to you but Rocky v Clubber Lang wasn't a real fight, so not quite sure that comparison has much relevence in relation to what happened on Saturday Night / Sunday Morning.
Post 103 you talk about Joe beating up on an older, smaller man. Crying out loud, RRJ has been the HW champion of the world, Joes never been anywhere near that weight, and the three year age difference is not a major factor. BHop didn't just beat the much younger Pavlik, (who was supposed to beat up on Joe), he battered and humiliated him.
As has been said all along, the unfortunate fact is we are now in a world ruled by money. In the days of Ali / Foreman / Frasier / Norton etc. etc. etc. the kudos of beating the best in the world was the driving force, and the money a great added bonus. Now the promoters have become far cuter and realised that they can generate vast amounts of money without risking their honey pot by exposing him to a dangerous opponent.
The fact of the matter is that BHop / RRJ etc (or more accurately their promoters) were not interested in Joe 5 - 10 years ago because he was dangerous. I'm not saying who would have won the fights, but the view was why risk a live opponent when the same revenue could raised with a so called bum. The only reason two top fighters ever get in on now is for a mega fight where the money is ridiculous and can't be turned down, something Joe couldn't offer back then.
Get off his back, he is undefeated, he'll go down in history as one of the all time greats (espcially if we're only talking about these isles), and he has been a credit to his profession.
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Joes workrate deserves legendary status....I bet 1/2 the so called boxing experts on this link were predicting Joe would lose to Roy Jones Junior...
Lacy was supposedly the up and coming thing and Joe's performance against him was a masterclass. Unless you want to change the rules of boxing point scoring that only punches that hurt you count then Joe beat Bernard Hopkins quite convincingly and as he proved he is far from past it against Pavlick.
He beat Eubank, Kessler, Lacey and I believe he would have beaten Ben, Collins and Watson but the critics of Joe will all instantly say each opponent he faces is past it, not ready, not big enough, too slow. What does the man have to do his knockout record is far from being horendous and although his reactions are not what they used to be I bet few boxers in the middleweight divisions would knock Jones out.
One thing about HJoe that hasn't been mentioned is his chin....to go that many fights never getting knocked out means you are durable, few if any in his weight division would outwork him.....So he is a great.....
Super, super, super Joe super Joe Calzaghe is all I want to add.....
Ed (former Neath Boy living in Plymouth)
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Joe typical overhyped British star.
He's fought everyone past their peak.
If he only had to text RJJ to get the fight on...why not have texted him 10 years ago.
Ugly fighter with no style or grace.
Looked pathetic trying to taunt RJJ during fight....typical....flat on his feet just like Fatton!
Get's no respect for last 2 fights but used to admire his unbeaten record against nobodies.
And BHop and RJJ would have knocked him out 10 years ago....all those punches just to cut an eye...wow....yet joe says he was punching harder then ever.
Hahahahaha!
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It would be a nice touch if Calzaghe did allow British fighters to challenge him, sort of a contender series to find his successor!
The only problem with the Calzaghe legacy is that the top tier in his division like Hopkins, Winky Wright, Tarver etc are all quite advanced in years and Calzaghe is the younger of the old guys. This is always going to be open to exploitation for those who want to diminish the shine on Calzaghe's wins in recent years.
Kessler pushed Calzaghe and the points decision in the end wasn't overwhelmingly indicative of Kessler being outclassed. I think in 18 months time Kessler may be a little wiser and may well be able to beat Calzaghe, but of course by then the Welshman will be 38/39.
There are some younger challengers in and around the Calzaghe weight, with great records, who could offer a fight. If Calzaghe beats a couple of the young upstarts like Diaconu, Pavlik, Bute then he can retire knowing that he trounced both the elder statesmen of the sport and also the youngsters with the best records at the time. I'd much rather he lost to a youngster than lost it to someone his own age, so we can look forward to a new generation in boxing.
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He's destroyed the best the world has to offer, no one left who deserves a shot at him - there's nothing to prove unless he wants to rake in the £££££'s.
Good luck to him whatever he does.
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NASHWONDER,
Hopkins still has it, but he never had the ability to knock out Calzaghe.
Agreed, Jones-Calzaghe a few years ago would have been interesting, but why did Jones not try and entice Calzaghe then, like Calzaghe did with, for example, Kessler?
He didn't fight Hopkins and Jones earlier because he wanted to stay in Wales, and because they didn't want it either. That's not his fault, and when he finally did meet them, he destroyed them.
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I like the way everyone assumes that it was Calzaghe doing the dodging when it came to a fight with Hopkins and Jones Jr. in the past when they were all in their prime.
What people need to understand is that just 2 years ago before Calzaghe destroyed Jeff Lacy, no-body in the US had heard of Calzaghe and he was a small draw. A ery small draw in fact. Calzaghe wanted to fight those two earlier, but it was almost impossible at the time, only when he beat Lacy then Kessler these 'legends' started taking notice.
Afterall, why would a multi-weight world champion, Legend of boxing fight a nobody from Wales? What money would they make from such a small draw fight?
It has always been Hopkins and Jones Jr. ducking a fight with Calzaghe, not the other way around.
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Some people are completely twisting the facts. It was Calzaghe who was doing the ducking through the 1990s and not vice versa. We all saw what a washed out RJJ was capable of against Calzaghe. Threw one solid punch and Calzaghe hit the deck. If that had happened in the 1990s, Calzaghe would not have got up OR RJJ would have gone in for the kill and finished him off.
Calzaghe punching looked very weak and wayward. And combined with his silly dancing made him look ridiculous.
Against 43 year old Hopkins, Calzaghe looked hopeless again. Even his dad Enzo admitted that Hopkins was unlucky not to get the judges desicion.
So in my opinion how would Calzaghe prove himself?
Fight all the best upcoming fighters from across the world. Beat them and then ill swallow my words. But Calzaghe will retire because he knows he will get defeated. He will end up like the way RJJ is now.
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He didn't fight Hopkins and Jones earlier because he wanted to stay in Wales, and because they didn't want it either. That's not his fault, and when he finally did meet them, he destroyed them
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Typical blind patriotism. It is obvious for neutrals like myself that Calzaghe stayed in Wales all those years because he was afraid of the American elite fighters.
'Because he wanted to stay in Wales'
hahahahahhahahahhaha what a ridiculous comment.
And no he didnt destroy anyone. He went to the end against Hopkins and should have lost. RJJ was disinterested and still stayed on his feet till the end. That isnt 'destroying'. If you want to see destroying see what Sonny Liston used to do to his opponents.
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"Joe Calzaghe (senior) thought that Hopkins won the fight with Joe by a mile.
I assume then that his opinion does not have any merit.
Joe should fight Pavlik and get knocked out in Round One, and then retire.
If two old lads are putting him down in the first round.............."
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And when did he tell you that? Before or after youd had your pills?
This the same Pavlik who was poking Hopkins with a teeny tiny pillow in his last outing? Pavlik is so easy to hit and so one dimensional a blind monkey could hit him. Hopkins fought Joes style and looked good. So how easy would Joe make that fight look?
Hmmm well he got knocked down alright. But he got straight back up both times and one pretty much every round after.
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For the record id like to see Froch v Joe if Froch wins his title fight. Problem is that nobody apart from over here would care. Just beat Dawson and Pavlik and then have doen with it all. Theyre both overrhyped nobodies anyway but at least itll shut the yanks up.
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At the end of ten rounds against Hopkins Joe's father told him he was a mile behind and needed a knock-out, you can see him do this on TV. After the 11th, he told him the same thing.
Now Joe didn't win the 12th by that much.
Joe should retire, I don't think Ali will fight him to prove Joe's greatness. He could get a ready job as a comedian.
When Dawson was mentioned as a challenger having knocked out Tavare, the man who ended Jones career in 2003, he said alL he had beaten was an old man. And he said it with a straight face.
I am surprised Warren says Joe only ducked 12 world title fights, I thought it would have been more.
AS FOR HIS TAUNTING OF jONES, WHO WAS A REAL LIVE LEGEND MANY YEARS AGO, IT WAS NOTHING SHORT OF A DISGRACE.
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How do you destroy someone in a 12 round points victory? Just asking like...
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We all knew that Jones was 'washed up' years ago so really there is no great credit to Calzaghe for this easy victory. I agree with previous writers about Calzaghe's taunting of Jones. It was disgraceful and conceited and un-called for, and follows from his equally shameful sexual inuedno against Hopkins. That is why he will never go down as a great fighter.
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Some terribel comments on this thread, notably from JamesAutar, NASHWONDER and sonofthedestroyer.
Its funny how hopkins and roy jones are allowed to mock, goad and ridicule their opponents but when Calzaghe does abity of show boating its uncalled for.
Lets not forget Jones had already started his in the 2nd round before Joe ripped him a new one.
Just poor critiques of a great fighter. The American Writers are rightly acknowledging his greatness as are many ring legends such as Lewis, Haggler, Leonard and McGuigan. I think i'll listen to these guys who have been in the sport and know the sport
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Not sure I would describe Lewis and McGuigan as "legends".
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Post # 98, boxmaster reckons that Jones should have come to the UK to fight Calzaghe yrs ago. The implication being that he had been ducking Joe.
I am afraid you betray your naivety and lack of boxing knowledge.
Jones was the primary fighter in the world back then. He was the man. It was'nt for him to come to Calzaghe, but for Calzaghe to go to him.
I am no Calzaghe fan, but I believe Calzaghe would have loved to face RJ in the States back then when he was nearer his prime.
The main reason that never happened was
Warren's understandable reluctance to expose his main meal ticket to high risk
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One of my all time favourite fighters Marvelous Marvin Hagler reckons the only fight Calzaghe should hang around for is Tarver.
Sorry, Marv, even though beating 38yr old Tarver would mean Joe had cleaned out the best fighters of his generation, it would be a totally meaningless bout.
Tarver has just lost to a young Chad Dawson, the real Light H. W Champ of the world.
A fight against Dawson is the only meaningful fight out there for Calzaghe.
Hopkins, a freak of nature and still remarably fresh at 43 is an option. But who really wants to see that again?
Tarver apart from his loss to Dawson, is also a very boring fighter with low punch output. He is not box office, and HBO TV who would be financing the fight would have no interest in it.
Dawson on the other hand is HBO's new poster boy at light heavyweight. They would put up the money for that fight.
However, I think that Calzaghe should retire now. He has no more to prove. He will not beat Chad Dawson, should that fight happen.
Daswson will not beat Calzaghe 'cos he is inherently a better fighter but purely 'cos he is younger, stronger, faster, fresher. Because Father time has caught up to Calzaghe, just as it had with the remnants of the once truly outstanding Roy Jones Jnr.
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Its funny how hopkins and roy jones are allowed to mock, goad and ridicule their opponents but when Calzaghe does abity of show boating its uncalled for
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Jones looked classy the way he moves and mocks opponents. Calzaghe tried it and he looked like an idiot.
Calzaghe has no class, style, efficiency or power. He just runs around flailing arms. And me manages to score points on that basis. He dosent deserve to be a legend for that reason (aswell as ducking the best during 90s)
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I have some respect for Ricky Hatton and Amir Khan. Both of them went abroad against better opponents and lost. Hatton went up the weight division. Khan fought a superior man in his prime within his division.
Calzage on the otherhand defeats two old legends and not in any convincing manner either (throwing 100s of girly pats is not convincing).
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sonofthedestroyer your posts reek of urine.
Get a grip, he throws girly pats?? Roy Jones just confirmed he doesn't...also i'd love to see those girly pats reigning in on your face...next
No efficiency....well I think thats a bit of a rank statement too...he's full of efficiency otherwise he wouldn't have the stamina and wins record that he does...next
Saying you respect Kahn and not Calzaghe sums it up. Kahn has not even done anything yet, he lost to a guy who looks good but who himself has yet to prove himself against the very best.
People will truly see Calzaghes standing when the likes of Kessler go on to truly dominate the super mid division.
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sonofthedestroyer, excumbrian - Your boxing knowledge is a disgrace!!
sonofthedestroyer - Amir Khan has NEVER boxed professionally abroad ( I thimk you mean Naseem Hamed - but who know)
excumbrian - Lacy was 28 and widely considered in his prime when Calzaghe demolished him.
Jokers!
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Exactly...the very fact that he mentioned Khan in the same terms as Calzaghe immediately blew his argument to the ground..dear oh dear
i'd avoid boxing if i were you, seems a bit too much for you
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Its amazing to see how many people have NO boxing knowledge whats so ever!!
sonofthedestroyer... Girly pats from Calzaghe?? Ask Lacy, Roy Jones, Richie Woodhall, Kessler, Omar sheika, Bryon Mitchell if he hits with girly pats..they may have a different answer for you... Also a comment about ducking the best in the 90's..well calzaghe won the title in 1997 at the time the super middleweight division was going through a transitional faze, the greats of Benn, Eubank (who he beat) Collins (who retire rather than defend his title v Calzaghe) had retired. He would never have got Jones jr or Hopkins as they were marquee names and he was barely known in the UK due to fighting on Sky...its when he moved to ITV and had his defining moment v Lacy, is when he "blew up"
Im not saying he is the best figher ever but he is defo one of the best this country has ever had and at the end of the day he is 46-0!!! What more do you want!!
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Post 64 - im sorry to round on sonofthe destryer again but he deserves it !! Lews ducked Tyson in the 1980's and 90's!!!
Errr i think Lewis turned pro in 1989 - Tyson was champ for 4 years by then... also didnt Tyson spend 3 years in jail during the 90's!! Than beat Bruno, Seldon and lost to holyfield twice before going inside again!! Im wondering when this fight could have happened!!
Man read some books or watch some you tube videos before coming on here and spouting yr drivel!!
I promise i wont pick on him again!!
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Some of the posts I've read here are funny!
One wrote that Lennox Lewis dominated the HWs for two yrs , ducked capable fighters like John Ruiz!? and fought slappers like Grant.
Grant a slapper and Ruiz a capable fighter?
Seems you got it the wrong way round.
For your information, Lennox had three reigns as HW king between 1993 and 2003. Along with Ali and Holyfield he is the only man to win the title three times. He is generally acknowledged as among the top five HWs of all time.
The man was a true great and legend who I believe has already been inducted into the Hall of Fame at Canastota.
On the subject Calzaghe's win over Jones, another poster made the point that Larry Holmes did not claim his greatness by beating the sad shell of Ali.
Excellent point. Likewise Calzaghe did not claim his greatness by dismantling the ghost of RJJ. His greatness lies in his longetivity, 10yrs as champ and his unbeaten record.
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So he's worked 20 years to put himself in a position where he can earn circa £5m a fight and all of a sudden he is going to retire? Gimme a break.......why should he? There's nobody at 175 who can touch him, he's still got all his reflexes and is a "young" 36, he hasn't been involved in any wars and there's an opportunity for him to fight in front of 70,000 welshmen in cardiff next summer. You do the math but I'd be very very surprised if he didn't fight again. Its ok all these pundits telling him to retire but I think he'll fight on for at least another fight and perhaps more. Then all of a sudden 50-0 appears on the horizon?
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You cannot knock Joe Calzaghe for what he has achieved. He has never ducked anybody and he thoroughly deserves his unbeaten record.
Unfortunately for Joe however, he has not fought in era where any true world-class boxers were around in his weight division (ie super-middleweight) and at their prime. Jones Jr and Hopkins are middleweight legends who are too old to fight at that weight anymore.
Joe deserved to beat Jones Jr and Hopkins but even so, both showed enough to suggest that things may have been very different 5 to 10 years ago. Both fighters still delivered the classier punches and you have to ask whether they would've finished Joe off in the first round in their prime.
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Smigster83, I agree with your point that the first round knock downs Calzaghe suffered against B.Hop and RJJ gave an indication of what might have happened had they fought the Welshman when nearer ther respective primes.
And..forgive me for being a bit pendantic; Roy Jones actually turned pro in 1989 as a light middleweight. He subsequently moved to Middleweight where he fought B.Hop for the vacant IBF crown in 1993. He eventually outgrew the division and move to 168lbs.
It was at this weight that suited his maturing body that he reached his prime.
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I think he should retire. He is 46-0 and you can argue about how good he is but only time and history will tell.
He is 36 and is not getting any better or younger.
The two fights out there are with Dawson at L/heavy or Froch at S/middle. Both of them are younger and fresher.
He may be able to beet one or both of them but why take the risk. There are not many happy endings in boxing.
Joe has a great record at ABA level and as a pro in terms of wins.
He is on a hiding to nothing if he beats one of the above as if he looses it could be said that he was never that good or he was to old or if he wins were Dawson or Froch any good in the first place.
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Niether Dawson or Froch deserve a shot at Calzaghe.
I watched Dawson's fight in march or april against Glen Johnson - thanks to some very dubious scoring (to say the least!) he won that one - but flatly refused a rematch afterwards. Shouldn't even be voiced in the same breath as Joe.
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Plenty of people claiming i dont have boxing knowledge. With my two eyes i see a girly slapper in Calzaghe.
I share the same opinion as Joe Calzaghe's father Enzo Calzaghe: 'Hopkins deserved to win the fight'
Bad judging desicions gave him a victory againt 43 year old Hopkins.
Enzo was seen at round 11 telling Joe 'You will have to KO him'
Unfortunately his son was not powerful enough to KO the walking fossil.
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Styles make flights.......Calzaghe would have given Hopkins and Jones fits even in their prime. He's a southpaw.....got lightening fast hands..... and despite 2 flash knockdowns in his last 2 fights he has a fantastic chin. I think he would have beaten them anyway and I think now he has had a taste of the limelight I'm sure he wished he'd fought them earlier! But would they have fought him?
Can't believe someone has posted that he never fought a world class SM.....I was at the Eubank fight in 1997 and at despite some dodgy decisions in his own career I think Eubank was a world class SM.
One last point that I don't think anyone has raised.....calzaghe's hands. How good would he have been if he didn't suffer from hand pain in the last 10 years?
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Calzaghe would have given Hopkins and Jones fits even in their prime
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Absolute rubbish! You saw Calzaghe fall against Jones? If that happened in the 1990s, the punch from Jones would have been more devastating. Calzaghe would not have got up before the count. Even if he did Jones would have gone in for the Kill and finished him off.
Hopkins would also have beaten him in his prime. Not as quickly as Jones would have trashed him but defeat him nonethless.
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When Kelly Pavlik was unknown Calzaghe challenged him. Pavlik went on to fight the big names in USA and became famous.
And Calzaghe suddenly comes out and says 'Pavlik not good enough to fight me' 'he is overrated' 'he is too one dimensional' etc
Why is Calzaghe talking like this you wonder? It is proves what a ducker he really is. No that Pavlik has proven himself Calzaghe is now afraid of him.
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sonofthedestroyer, you're a crying face shambles who knows sod all about boxing..
you talk about roy jones punch...well actually its the one thing that doesn't change much in a fighter, can still hit as hard...its the stamina, reflexes and defence that go...so yet another rank point.
also your point about pavlik proving himself...well he beat an overated Jermaine Taylor and was then destroyed by the man you call a 'fossil'
you are full of gas, hot air and total garbage, stick to what you know...which can't be very much
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hehe, and he wonders why there are so many people doubting his boxing knowledge!
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, just back it up a bit with decent facts my friend.
Time will tell whether Pavlik will bounce back, i'd like to see him fight Kessler, I think it'd make a great fight and catapult one of them back into contention in the division.
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So Calzaghe now fights 40-somethings. Big deal. He still sat on his butt in the 1st round. He got on top of Jones in the later rounds when Jones was spent. Now that he's quit fighting young contenders and is on the "legacy" kick, looking for has beens to dominate, no one cares.
Reality check, folks. Mention the name Calzaghe in the USA and the response is usually "who?". He's had two fights over here. Both against men in their 40s. That doesn't qualify you as "an all time great" in this country. Sorry. Hatton is rated far higher, especially after he went toe-to-toe with Mayweather.
Calzaghe could go 146-0 and it wouldn't matter.
Wake me when he fights Dawson.
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Is it me or has anybody ACTUALLY seen Chad Dawson fight..i saw the fight v tarver and to be totally honest i was unimpressed by him ! To be honest if Calzaghe fights Dawson particulary at home ..i see a repeat of the Lacy demolition.
I agree with hunk4hire (lmao) that Hatton is a bigger name - but that is down to Hatton personality and come forward style.. the americans love the Arturo Gatti type fighter and feel hatton might fill the void. But Hatton is a far better boxer than Gatti, but UK fighters dont get HBO PPV contracts if they are no good - Calzaghe did and has had it for a while now...trust me they rate him in the states and if he fights again HBO will be showing it again.
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Yeah, I guess he has to do 'dancing with the stars' or have a cameo on what passes for a sitcom for people to start nodding their heads in recognition in the good old US of A.
Isn't Dawson living off the hype of his fight against 39 -touching-40 yr old Tarver?
Didn't Dawson scrape a dodgy decision against a 39 yr old Johnson in only his 3rd title defence?
I think reality checks are just what's needed..
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I think alot of people need to understand why Calzaghe was ducking RJJ through the 1990s. Here is the proof:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=nK8qHnvBo9U
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Yeah it was a shame to see him all bust up on Sunday morning, a shadow of his former self.
The last of the great American prize fighters.
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Yawn. Chad Dawson? I take it he's the next big thing now that Pavlik got his backside handed to him by Hopkins?
Please get real. This Dawson clearly hasn't the brains to fight Calzaghe otherwise he'd steer clear of him - especially after what Joe did to Lacy (who had a similar record to Dawson).
As for Joe ducking RJJ? That's just another myth. There is no greater boxer on earth at this moment than Joe and there is no american within 20 years who could hope to beat him.
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Hunk4hire :-
"Now that he's quit fighting young contenders and is on the "legacy" kick, looking for has beens to dominate, no one cares."
Do yourself a favour and go wiki Jeff Lacy. See what a real champion does to your supposed young 'superstars'.
The Lacy fight was embarrassing, that's probably why Joe decided to stop beating up your kids in the first place.
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People keep going on about Dawson...why?? Probably half the people on this post...well sonofthedestroyer at least...will not have heard of him
A - He isn't a big draw or name in the states
and
B - He was widely criticised after a very average performance against Tarver...who is a shadow of his former self
Dawson is using Calzaghes name to try and improve his own in the states...its a pointless fight and one that Joe doesn't need to take
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hunk4hire:
Here is the reality check. There is a big place outside of the US - it's called the rest of the world. To be a great fighter does not necessarily mean that your name is well known in every US household. One of the main reason boxers look to fight there is usually the money.
Of course Calzaghe has avoided fighters, just like virtually every boxer today does; I'm sure as many US boxers have avoided Joe for the same reason - money.
Quite simply Calzaghe is top quality and world class. The best ever? Of course not, but let's respect the man for what he is.
Cheers,
Rob
PS - nice nickname by the way.
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It's making me laugh all these people who are saying Calzaghe only fought boxers past their peak...
Did they not watch his destruction of prime fighters in Lacy, Kessler and Brewer while he was considered to be a fighter on the wane? Kessler and Lacy were smashing fighters up left, right and centre and were hard hitters. Calzaghe made mincemeat out of them.
Added to the fact he punches so much that he practically destroyed his hands it only adds to the determination Calzaghe has demonstrated to keep going all this time.
I bet half the people on here moaning about Calzaghe's achievements get beat up by their partners and feel inadequate. Everyone in the boxing world respects Calzaghe... including his rivals... even Froch who goes on about fighting Calzaghe all the time... even he recognises he is the best... or else why would everyone want to fight him? They all think they can spot a weakness... until they are in a shell being pounded by a 1000 punch machine.
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Oh and the prospect that is Chad Dawson??? He was banned for drug taking in 2004 for 6 months...
Earlier this year he won a very controversial decision against a washed up Glen Johnson... and I mean VERY controversial.
Hype is taking over common sense again I think.
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very good points vjohn82...I see sonof thedetroyer ain't posted in a while. Maybe he's away for a lie down after the constant drivel he's come out with since Sunday morning.
Joe Calzaghe you are a legend
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no one deserves a fight with calzaghe, let calzaghe retire undefeated! yay!
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I am going to go out on a limb and make a prediction.....
If Joe Calzaghe does not retire as he should and choses to fight Chad Dawson next, I say Dawson will beat him. Bang goes his long undefeated streak!
Dawson is a real L heavyweight. Not a blown up middle or super middleweight.
He is hungry, strong, quick and capable.
I am not a fan of Calzaghe but he has proved beyond doubt that he belongs amonst the highest echelons of fighters.
But...despite his wins against B. Hop and RJJ, he is clearly past his best.
Looking good against fellow members of the seniors tour is one thing. Fighting a hungry, ambitious, young man in the prime of his vigour is something of a different ball game. Or should I say fightgame?
Remember how my man, Lennox looked great against Tyson in their 2002 fight. A few months later, he looked like cr*p against the younger, stronger, quicker and more vital Vitali Klitschko.
He was fortunate enough to get out with a win.
I doubt Joe Calzaghe will not have the same luck.
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Maybe.
My only doubts is that Dawson looked average at best against a much older Johnson. His win against Tarver was more convincing as it should have been.
Calzaghe could expose him to be nothing more than a contender. It'd be a brave choice for Dawson , but Calzaghe needs a bigger draw for a 'last' fight and I don't think Dawson is it.
We may never know.
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I agree Satanssidearm,[ great handle by the way] Dawson was not convincing against Johnson. But no one looks good against the awkward spoiler. Dawson is a young fighter who is still improving as he showed in beating Tarver impressively.
He may not be a big draw in the league of B.Hop or RJJ, but he can fight. And who wants to see those two old timers again?Besides, Calzaghe has boasted that he does not do rematches.
Another point in favour of Dawson is the fact he highly favoured by HBO Tv.
Indications are they will be glad to put their money where their mouth is, bankroll the bout and assure Calzaghe the pay day he deserves.
Unless he is willing to give B.Hop a rematch, the only meaningful fight out there for Calzaghe is Dawson
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Dawson as a young fighter has done something already Calzaghe has never done in his career.
Dawson has taken Risks.
Whilst Calzaghe spend 10 years defending the shabby WBO belt in half empty stadiums, Guys like Hopkins, RJJ, Tarver, Winky etc. were fighting the best Prime V Prime.
Calzaghe has never gone Prime v Prime againt a Legend.
A Shame for such a talented fighter. All because the fear of having 1 loss in his career
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I don't think he's afraid of losing his 0, I think it means more to his supporters than him in all honesty.
I can't see where Dawson has taken risks to any greater or lesser extent than any other boxer at his level in the division. Pavlik, Kessler, Hopkins, Calzaghe, RJJ are still yet to show on his CV. These are the fights where he might lose and be exposed or show himself to be the real deal.
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Frank Warren has decided to spill the beans regarding Calzaghe not fighting the prime legends in the 1990s:
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f53/frank-warrens-article-joe-calzaghe-852984/
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u know wat gets me. people arguin about joe staying in europe. is this no different to bhop fightin only once outside of north america when he fought in paris???? no it isn't. why should the champion have to go elsewhere, he is after all the champion. people can say what they want about joe, but when people like lennox lewis, ricky hatton and marvelous marvin hagler say your a great, then your a great. end of. Im proud to of watched joe calzaghe's career and no matter how many people slate him on here, he is one of the greatest boxers of the modern era. thank you Joe foe keeping me entertained over the last 15yrs
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there are only four people out there who i think calzaghe should have his last fight against . bernard hopkins glencoffee johnson mikel kessler chad dawson . in my eyes the only person i think calzaghe should fight is johnson !! yeah he is old but just like hopkins has got better with age! he is the only legitimate test to calzaghe and his 0 . if it is true that calzaghe has ducked johnson twice he should give him a go, i think calzaghe would lose to johnson by k.o. but a fifth name enters and that is tarver who i think calzaghe will choose to fight because he can be bought like jones jr was. well done joe beating three old haggered yanks with a combined age of 110+. what a way to seal your legacy. what a WEAPON!!!
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Ben Dirs, are you inferring, via your grossly inaccurate Berbick-Ali analogy, that Joe Calzaghe is a "Bum"???
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ironDirkDiggler - Yep, that's right, I think Calzaghe - who I have referred to in the piece as "one of the greatest fighters Britain has ever produced" - is a bum...
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