What Mercedes buy-out of Brawn could mean
What was already shaping up to be a fascinating 2010 Formula 1 season got a whole lot more intriguing in the wake of the announcement that Mercedes is to take over the Brawn team.
Of greatest interest to most people in Britain will be the now-very-likely prospect that Jenson Button will become Lewis Hamilton's team-mate at McLaren, the new world champion's negotiations with the Mercedes-nee-Brawn team having reached an impasse.
While it is still just about possible that Button could stay at what will now be called Mercedes Grand Prix, it is very unlikely and, on the face of it, that leaves McLaren with an all-British line-up that, in terms of publicity at least, lives up to the billing of 'dream team'.
The last two world champions - both of them English, good-looking, with glamorous girlfriends and immensely marketable - in the same team would surely guarantee McLaren the lion's share of interest at the start of next season.
It will be surprising to many that Button will almost certainly not be staying with the team that made him world champion.
But it seems his desire for a pay-rise came up against Mercedes's wish to produce a German world champion driving a German car, and they have not been able to secure a mutually satisfactory deal.
It seems odd that a global car company setting up its own F1 team would not want to have the current world champion driving for them.
But, despite Mercedes's insistence on Monday that its team will be an international one, in the same way as it is a global brand, it seems Button's face does not fit - at least not at the price he wants.
Having taken a pay cut from £8m to £3.5m to help secure Brawn's future last winter, Button was after something like £6m for 2010. Mercedes/Brawn refused to budge. And now Button is likely to receive something like £7-8m from McLaren - still a long way off the salaries of Hamilton and Fernando Alonso, and what Kimi Raikkonen will earn not to drive next year, unless he can find a seat after being forced out of Ferrari to make way for Alonso.
I'm led to believe, though, that Button's failure to agree a deal with Brawn/Mercedes is not solely down to financial reasons.
McLaren have a vacancy, and in the context of their dramatic rise back to competitiveness in 2009 - and Brawn's relative fall from it - many in F1, Button perhaps among them, believe McLaren may well have the quicker car next year.
On Friday evening, I texted a friend, a respected F1 journalist, to tell him that Button had been given a tour of McLaren that day, the implication being that he was close to signing for the team.
"Mmm. Not sure that would be wise," was the response.
It's a fascinating match-up, to be sure, but good though Button is you would not find many people in F1 who fancied his chances of beating Hamilton in the same car.
Hamilton and Button share a joke - but how would they get on as team-mates?
Hamilton is widely regarded as the out-and-out fastest driver in F1. On top of that, McLaren is very much Hamilton's team - he has been nurtured by them from the age of 11.
McLaren insist they treat both their drivers equally, and that they provide them equal equipment. But Alain Prost, David Coulthard and Alonso have all found that does not stop the unfavoured driver feeling very much an outsider.
Complicating things further for Button is the fact that his and Hamilton's driving styles are diametrically opposed.
Unusually, Hamilton thrives on oversteer, using an unstable rear end to get his car quickly turned into the corner and pointing in the right direction for the exit - and the McLaren has been developed in that direction.
For Button, though, an oversteering car is anathema. He prefers a car that has a touch of understeer, which he can control with his delicate application of throttle and brakes.
It's not impossible for a single team's cars to be set up in two such contrasting ways, but development will generally take the car in a direction that suits one style or the other - and not both.
There will be days when Button will beat Hamilton - perhaps at Turkey, for example, where Hamilton's acrobatic style has caused him problems with excessive tyre wear in the past - but I am not alone in suspecting these are likely to be few and far between - unless Button is very much better than he is currently considered to be.
Meanwhile, Mercedes's decision to buy its own F1 team completely flies in the face of the approach being taken by all other car manufacturers.
Honda, BMW and Toyota have gone already; Renault is teetering on the brink. Yet Mercedes is investing millions in creating its own team, when it already had a 40% shareholding in a perfectly good one.
Despite buying Brawn and selling back its 40% shareholding in McLaren, Mercedes will continue as both engine supplier and major sponsor of McLaren at least until 2015.
That has come about because the contract that tied McLaren and Mercedes together included a clause that neither could do anything in F1 without the other's permission.
McLaren did not want Mercedes to buy Brawn so when the German company insisted, they demanded a quid pro quo that, as far as McLaren are concerned, contains all the positives of a Mercedes involvement but none of the negatives.
Mercedes has justified its decision on the basis that, following the political battles of 2009, running an F1 team is much cheaper than it was, and teams are guaranteed more income from the commercial rights holders.
Whether Mercedes makes a better job of running an F1 team than its fellow manufacturers remains to be seen.
More than a few people, though, have questioned the wisdom of selecting Nico Rosberg as its lead driver.
Quick though the German undoubtedly is, he has done nothing in his four years in F1 to prove he is one of the true elite. Yet this is the man Mercedes has apparently chosen to represent them in battle with Hamilton in a McLaren and Alonso in a Ferrari.
Mercedes almost certainly has at least one eye on prising Sebastian Vettel out of the grasp of Red Bull, but that will have to wait at least another year, and even then the young German rising star would have to be bought out of a contract that ties him to his current team until the end of 2012.
One final thought. What a difference 11 months have made to Brawn bosses Ross Brawn and Nick Fry.
They spent last winter desperately trying to save their team following Honda's decision to quit F1. To do that, they engineered a management buy-out that involved them paying a figure widely believed to be a euro for the team, which was largely funded by Honda this year.
Now, Mercedes has taken a 75% shareholding - which it has bought from Brawn and Fry. I have no idea how many millions it paid but, as well as securing the future of their team, Brawn - already a millionaire thanks to his years at Ferrari - and Fry are now undoubtedly rich beyond most people's wildest dreams.
The love affair has blown hot and cold, but Formula One has had me in its spell for most of my life. After 16 years covering the sport, in which I have reported from more than 100 Grands Prix, I am as thrilled by its heights, fascinated by its complexities and exasperated by its idiosyncrasies as ever. I hope there will be plenty of all of them to share with you now F1 is back on the BBC. You can also follow me on
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~14~RS~)
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It could be probably mean this:
Mercedes: Rosberg, Raikkonen
McLaren: Hamilton, Button
Ferrari: Raikkonen, Alonso
Renault: Kubica, Kovalainen
Red Bull: Webber, Vettel
Williams: Barrichello, Hulkenburg
Campos: Senna, De La Rosa
USF1: Wurz, Andretti
Toro Rosso: Buemi, Alguersuari
Lotus: Trulli, Petrov
Manor: Carroll, Villeneuve
Force India: Sutil, Liuzzi
Qadbuck BMW-Sauber: Heidfeld, Glock
2011 Calendar-
Australia,Melbourne
Malaysia, Sepang
Bahrain,Manama
Spain,Barcelona
Monaco, Monte Carlo
Turkey, Istanbul
India, New Delhi
Canada, Montreal
Britain, Silverstone
Germany, Hockenheim
Hungary, Budpast
Europe, Valencia
Belgium,Spa
Italy, Monza
South Korea,
Singapore,
Japan, Suzuka
China, Shanghai
Ahu Dhabi, Yas Marina
Brazil, Interlagos
What Do you Think People?
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Not sure that signing for Maclaren is a good idea for JB.
I'm not sure the Maclaren will be so fast without Kers, they obviously got that right but whay will happen to the car without?
Great blog, well done
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Interesting the comparisons between Button and Hamilton. It will definitely be one to watch, though now that Button has won his world championship he could be forgiven for thinking he had nothing left to prove.
Going up against Hamilton, however, shows that he still has the desire and hunger to succeed and this will be a true test of his skill and talent - can he match up to Hamilton?
I also think that the insider/outsider story is mostly a fabrication of news journalists to sell copy and rather than reports "rifts" actually helps contribute towards them. I see it has already started and they're not even an official team yet!
Both drivers are consummate professionals, so why not let them do the talking on the track and stop trying to create stories out of nothing.
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About the drivers, I think Mercedes are looking to Sebastian Vettel, who will be available from 2012 ... He's the German driver they really want.
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you sware it's a done deal BUT'S IT NOT.kimi to mclaren!!!!!
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It will be a huge dissapointment if Kimi is not in a top team next year. He is rated as the best driver (along with Alonso and Hamilton) on the grid.
I really hope that Button does not go to Mclaren so that we can see Kimi v Hamilton in a straight fight. However, many people believe that Kimi will take his sabatical (apparantly, he will make more money by NOT driving in F1 due to his contract with Ferrari!). It also seems that Heidfeld is Mclarens second choice, reducing Kimi's chances even further.
F1 will be the poorer without him.
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#1 You could well be spot on but I think that despite what they are saying or seem to be saying I think that they want Kimi more than Button.
I don't think and have said before that a move from Brawn wouldn't be the best career advice for JB. He should, if possible, take what is on offer and stay where he is.
At McLaren he will be chasing shadows. I would love to be proved wrong and find that it is the other way round but I don't think so.
This year has been stella for Lewis all things considered. He had a chance in the last GP to win as many races as Vettal! This wasn't possible due to the failure with his brakes. In addition he was unlucky when he got the puncture in the first corner in Germany when tagged by Webber.
Either way and like everyone on here, BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!
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All British team Mclaren next year then. British team with British Drivers! Love it! Oh except they may not have a home race to show this off. Calling all people to join the facebook group: Save the British F1 race and post your support on there as well as here. Please...
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I dont understand why F1 would be poorer without Kimi ? ... he's spent most of the year out of the spotlight, I doubt he'll be missed at all .. except in those post race interviews where he's a non stop bundle of quick whitted one liners and belly laughs !
Why would a team sign a man who seems totally disinterested unless he's in a race winning car ?
Seems extraordinariy that Brawn/Button will part ways .. but I guess we should never be surprised at the capacity of F1 to surprise us.
Hamilton / Button should be an interesting pairing, it will ensure that they're consistently scoring points in all races.
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f1fanatic - I think you mean Massa not Raikkonen at Ferrari!! Also I'd love to see a 20 race calendar in 2011, but I just can't see the teams accepting it.
Can't understand why Button would go to McLaren and drive with (and be embarrassed by) McLaren's Favourite Son. Following from this I also can't understand all the flack for Rosberg, he's got great results with an inferior Williams, especially as he's never driven for one of the elite you can hardly start writing him off already. Agree with f1fanatic that with McLaren's reported interest in Raikkonen he could easily get the seat with Rosberg at Mercedes.
Can't wait for next season, Alonso v Vettel v Massa v Hamilton (v Rosberg v Raikkonen!) etc.
Personally hope Kovalainen gets no seat, just not good enough and Grosjean gets another chance as anyone who is just 4 tenths of Alonso's pace in Abu Dhabi qualifying is worth a full seat.
2010 Lineup
Ferrari - Alonso, Massa
McLaren - Hamilton, Button
Red Bull - Vettel, Webber
Mercedes - Rosberg, Raikkonen
Renault - Kubica, Glock
Williams - Barrichello, Hulkenburg
Toro Rosso - Buemi, Alguersuari
Force India - Sutil, Liuzzi
Campos - Senna, Petrov/Maldonado
Lotus - Trulli, Sato
Manor - Davidson, Di Grassi
BMW Qadbak - Heidfeld, Kobayashi
US F1 - Wurz, Grosjean (This is the most intriguing so hard to predict)
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I think Mclaren still want Kimi, so if he does go and Brawn decide on Heidfeld alongside Rosberg... Button wont have a drive!!! HA HA HA
That would be strange! the world champion not wanted
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Don't really care what happens to Button now if Villeneuve is likely to return. The prospect of Villeneuve in an F1 car again makes the 2010 much more watchable already. F1 is just so "corporate" with drivers so bland and repressed. Even Kimi who appears to have a decent life has been told to keep his mouth and life shut! There should be a "bring back Jacques" campaign!
Having said that, Button has always tried to align himself to "the fastest car" with disastrous results. I suspect this will be another example of how to get things wrong.
Button's best bet will be to go to Maclaren even though he won't stand a chance against "Hamilton's Team" as Brawn/Mercedes will still be competitive, but will be 4th behind Maclaren, Ferrari and Red Bull.
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What will be interesting if JB goes to Maca is how the contrast of styles (Button smooth v Hamilton agressive)will play out in the economy battle of next years single fuel fill. Anyone who throws their car around will get mullered in the last phase, so let's not assume Lewis will have it all his own way...
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I hope JB does not end up like Damon in 1997, world champion but no decent drives available. Be a terrible shame if JB ended up at the back of the grid in a Proton!
Not sure about going to McLaren. The car was designed for Lewis who loves oversteer, JB hates it!
JB has had problems in the past negotiating contacts, lets hope he can defend his title when the music stops.
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There is the sense that Hamilton can wrestle better with a bad car and Jenson needs a good one so that he can be his smooth self. No refueling so different tyre wear will suit Jenson. Could be closer than you expect if they become team mates. Jenson knows this!
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@11 Not really it has happened before.... Williams kicked Hill out the year he got his WDC and he ended up in an Arrows.
Personally I think Button would be better off at Merc with Niko, that would in my mind give Merc a competitive couple of drivers with Button being on the money now give Niko a chance to prove that he is a top rate driver.
As for Kimi sorry but I think he is best in a 2nd seat (and ideally at McLaren) he is too inconsistent and not driven enough to merit the no1 car at a top team. Personally I would put him along side Lewis, and hope that the challenge of racing Lewis in the same car is enough to perk Kimi's racing spirit, because when he is in the mood he is electric.
Is it known that the reason JB hasn't signed with Brawn/Merc is because JB was holding off for more money? Or is that just press speculation? Could it be the case that Brawn (and maybe JB together) have held off driver negotiations whilst the i's were dotted and the t's crossed with the Merc deal?
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I am sure Mclaren would prefer Kimi to JB but they will probably have to pay Kimi 30+ mil as oppose to 7-8 for JB
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At 14:48 on 16 Nov 2009, Andrew Benson wrote:
"Hamilton is widely regarded as the out-and-out fastest driver in F1."
By whom? Yes he is one of the outstanding drivers, but to start with it is widely acknowledged that race-for-race Massa clearly outdrove him the year they fought for the title.
"Quick though the German undoubtedly is, he has done nothing in his four years in F1 to prove he is one of the true elite."
You must have the name and nationality wrong there. You mean Button has done nothing in TEN years to prove he is anything more than average. He's struggled against the likes of Ralf, Fisichella, Trulli and Barichello; in fact he was outdriven by a 38-year-old Rubens for the last 10 gp's of this season and if you look into each race when he outscore him in this period it was due to circumstance alone. In all honesty not many can imagine this happening to Rosberg who has crushed Wurz and Nakajima drivers of comparable calibre. On top of that Rosberg has a GP2 title under his belt whilst Button's palmare is limited to British Formula Ford.
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Jenson Button World Champion and a deserved one at that, that statement seems to grate with a few people who just can't wait to put him down, get over it. Jenson will be competive where ever he goes.
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Oh and I really don't understand all this 'team Hamilton' junk about McLaren, especailly seeing that it seems to hinge on the idea that Ron Dennis paid 10s of millions to put double world champion Alonso into his car.... only so that he could write him off in favour of an untested rookie.... Sorry but I just can't get my head round that idea.
Personally it seems far more likely to me that Alonso went and truly soiled his blanket by demanding that the team that has staked its name time and again on equal treatment for both drivers put all of its muscle behind him and ignore his team mate (who was beating him in the DWC at the time), pulling the pit lane shinanigans at Hungary when he stopped Lewis from being able to get new tyres on in time for a final run and then just to put a big cherry on top of the icing tried to bully Ron Dennis into doing things his way by threatening to go to the FIA with 'secrets' regarding the spygate scandal.
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What's happening with Kovalainen?
Do we know for sure that he's not being retained for 2010?
I don't think Hamilton and Button in the same team is a good idea. We've seen how McLaren favour Hamilton (he certainly benefited from the new parts over Kovalainen) so how on earth would they manage two vastly different driving styles?
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as an avid viewer of F1 it saddens me when a small independent company like brawn goes under to bigger global companies sadly big money rules and the fans loose out again.
if jensen button goes to mclaren i can only hope its a disaster for both and one of the new teams running cosworth engines takes the lead.
if button goes to mclaren he will become number two to hamilton and that sadly would ruin his chances of ever getting another world title.
i will watch avidly to see if bruno senna has any of his late great uncles abilities.
the new lotus looks good and will be hard to beat if the package is correct.
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18. At 5:32pm on 16 Nov 2009, nibs wrote: ~Gibberish~
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I'm not really all that happy about this and its likely consequences, although I recognise I have no right to feel aggrieved. It's a shame that Brawn in its current form will disappear from the grid to be effectively replaced by another manufacturer team; I also doubt now that Raikkonen will be racing next year, which is a terrible shame.
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Er, nibs:
Jenson was a rookie to Ralf Schumacher at Williams, and was crushed and bullied compared to Fisi and Trulli at Benetton. Any comparisons to those three as team-mates are pretty spurious.
And as for being outraced by Rubens, he may have been out-qualified, but managing to finish ahead of Rubens in half of the races where he started behind him is exactly the reason Button is WDC.
I can't say I'm a fan of the idea of Jenson at McLaren as I think he'll suffer by comparison with Lewis Hamilton, who really is an embryonic all-time great. But to pretend he's not proved he's an above-average driver with spurious statistic is a right load of hogwash.
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The bias with which British journalists write about Hamilton and Button is absolutely astounding. It is like Button is “our boy” and Hamilton “the other one”. It makes me sick. Not every British person is a Button fan you know.
Look at this article: Button prefers a car “which he can control with his delicate application of throttle and brakes” – gosh a more fawning and biased description of driving styles I don’t think one could have.
And didn’t Lewis have a one-stop strategy at Turkey this year and managed to handle his tyres perfectly well. This is another stupid anti-Hamilton myth that has been propagated by the prejudiced British media – it is actually a fact that Heikki is a lot harder on his tyres than Lewis according to McLaren’s head of engineering, Paddy Lowe, but you hardly ever hear about that.
Stop painting Lewis as the villain who controls everything and makes everything difficult.
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All the above comments and speculations are most entertaining, almost more so than the F1 season, which happened to be one of the better ones since MS's retirement. The only sensible move would be for Mercedes to get Vettel (pronounced fettle), then any competition between Hamilton and Button would be only a supporting act. Vettel is going to be the next champion, whether with Red Bull or Toro Rosso or Mercedes is irrelevant. Greatest talent on any grid. And a fabulous sense of humour.
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you have the fin driving for two cars
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@27 Vettle still has to prove he can overtake on the race track.... I do think he is a really quick driver and can win races from the front, but so could Ralf Schumacher, Trulli and countless other drivers.
I am really REALLY looking forward to next season as it seems to me that there are a large number of drivers and cars looking to prove themselves...
Alonso I am sure wants to get back into the winning way and stamp his authority on Ferrari and Massa, Massa himself will want to prove he has fully recovered and will be wanting DWC gold of his own.
Lewis and McLaren will be wanting to pick up where they left off at the end of 2009 and he will be keen to gain a 2nd DWC, whoever his team mate is (my money is Kimi or Jenson) will be seeking to beat the man who many think is one of the all time greats in the making.
Mercedes and whoever they have driving (Rossberg and someone else) will be eager to prove that last seasons car was no fluke and that next seasons will be even stronger (given the limits on Brawn last season I think thats highly possible)
Red Bull with a new Newey car will be looking to prove they can remain a front running team. Webber and Vettel are also both hugely competitive and eager to make a name for themselves.
Then further down the grid there is going to be a big battle to be best of the 'new teams' and a burning desire by that team to be the 'new Brawn' (something I doubt will happen).
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I for one will be quite interested to see how Hamilton and a few others cope with new rules and fuel for the entire race without swiftly destroying their tyres.
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Like several other posters I'm wondering where this leaves Kimi? If the reports about the difference in Ferrari payments whether Kimi races or doesn't are correct, it seems like it may be hard to find a seat that offers both a chance of winning races AND more money than sitting at home.
It seems to me there are three, maybe four drivers on the grid at present who can get decent results with poor cars - Lewis, Kimi, Fernando and I suspect Sebastian Vettel. That's the hallmark of true champions and it would be a shame if Kimi didn't line up with the others in Bahrain next March.
It looks like it has to be either McLaren or Brawn if that's going to happen. Clearly Kimi is a known quantity at McLaren - how many times was he close to winning the Championship there? I can't see him being worried about Lewis, so that would seem to be the best option if they can pay Kimi and give him some freedom to go Rallying and race powerboats, or whatever it is he wants to do that never fitted with Rons corporate imagery.
Brawn though is intriguing. I've always wondered if part of the problem at Ferrari was Kimi was recruited at least a year before he moved by Jean Todt & Ross Brawn. When he got there he found a different organization - Jean was being pushed out by Luca, and Ross had gone fishing. It seemed like Kimi eventually got to grips with the car whose design was started under Ross, and won the championship, but the '08 wasn't good and it took too long to get what was possible out of the '09. When they finally understood how to use it, they'd already stopped development. Where does all that leave Kimi and Ross? I assume Kimi left on good terms with Norbert - he's certainly been complimentary in public. Does that mean there's a chance they can work out a deal?
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I personally dislike this decision, it's a shame to see Brawn taken over after just winning the title.
As for Jenson, I would love him to stay at the new Brawn Team. McLaren is seen as 'Lewis's' Team and Brawn is seen as 'Jenson's', and I just think Jenson will not do as well at McLaren than he may do at Brawn, as he could possibly be in the shadow of Hamiltion. It would be a poor decision for Jenson if he did, it would just be like his days at Benetton, when he was in the shadow of Fisichella, and that proven to be the wrong move!
However, the move has not been confirmed and how much I fear for JB, I think Kimi still has the chance to go to McLaren and for JB to stay at the new Brawn team.
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My 2010 Line-ups
McLaren: Lewis Hamilton and Nick Heidfeld
Mercedes: Nico Rosberg and Jenson Button
Ferrari: Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa
Sauber: Giancarlo Fisichella and Romain Grosjean
Red Bull: Mark Webber and Sebastien Vettel
Toro Rosso: Sebastien Buemi and Jmie Alguersuari
Lotus: Kayumi Kobayashi and Jarno Trulli
Renault: Robert Kubica and Timo Glock
Force India: Adrian Sutil and Viantonio Liuzzi
Williams: Niko Hulkenberg and Rubens Barrichello
Manor: Heikki Kovalainen and Anthony Davidson
USF1: Scott Speed and Jaques Villeneuves
Campos: Nelson Piquet Jnr. and Bruno Senna
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A nd now for something completely different. I have a young grandson, Alex Lloyd, who competed with Lewis up to the time that lack of sponsorship cash made getting a seat pretty well impossible. Eventually, Alex made the US his home and entered and won the junior Indy car series known at the time as Indy Pro. He won because a first years entry in an unknown Race team took the notice of one Sam Schmidt. Sam engaged Alex to race for his team in 2007 where he won setting all sorts of records.
He was then signed up by Target Ganassi for a team which has won the Indy Car championship on so many occsions. Unfortunately Alex could not get Target to sponsor an additional race car, I have been told how much they sponsor their present two drivers for, its a fantastic sum. The present drivers are Dario Franchitti (winner this year) and Stuart Dixon (New Zealand) winner last year.
Hopefully Alex may get a contract with Newman Haas for 2010, at the moment its in the lap of the Gods but looking promising. He has sponsorship. If and when he does, with a good car and a good team behind him, maybe he'll be able to supplant Target Ganassi and Penske Racing the two all conquering teams.
Why mention Alex? Because IMHO he could slot in to Formula 1 no questions asked. When racing in competition with Lewis in Formula Renault, Alex was voted Young Driver of the Year. Regrettably the prize of £75,000 paid for only 3 drives that year. He was chosen to race in A1GP but never got one race. The chosen driver at the time never once won for GB
If he ever gets the chance to race in Formula 1, expect to be surprised although the money in the US is very good and the likelihood of him taking a chance in F1 has to be queried
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I think Button should fire his manager as at the moment JB has no drive for next year. My view would be to accept the Mercedes offer on a 1 year deal and then to sit down with new management to work out a career roadmap for the future with time on JB's side.
I think JB is a very good driver, but he won the championship mainly down to Brawn and the double diffuser and getting lucky with the engine integration from Mercedes. If all the drivers had the same car, would JB have won? Brawn and the new Mercedes team know this and as DC has said in the past, it's 80% car, 20% driver.
For me Kimi going back to McLaren would be the wrong move for McLaren as Kimi does not show any interest in the sport, just in the money. Yes if he's in the mood, then he is very quick, but do they want to take that chance again?
Kimi loves his Rally, let him do what he loves, it's not the lack of money holding him back. JB should employ Kimi's management these guys know how to get a great deal for their driver.
I would say Button will stay at Mercedes for next year, would you bet against Ross Brawn right now?
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From the point of personal preference, I would have preferred to see Hamilton-Raikkonen at McLaren and Button-Rosberg at Brawn, now Mercedes.
But the idea of Button at McLaren is not as crazy as it sounds, even looking at it from Jenson's point of view. He has won the World Championship, whatever happens, no-one will be able to take that away from him. So in some respects he doesn't have all that much to lose. If he goes to McLaren and Hamilton beats him, even makes mincemeat of him - not an awful lot will have changed as it seems most people assume that will happen/would have happened anyway. He'll still be 2009 WDC.
What I'm saying is, this is Button's chance to test himself against a team-mate of top-level quality, which is something he has never had the chance to do. With the exception of a couple of tough rookie years in '00 and '01, he has dispatched every team-mate since Trulli in 2002 with ease - none of them world-class, but some well-respected opposition nonetheless. (Button 14-9 Trulli, Button 12-6 Villeneuve, Button 127-38 Sato, Button 160-118 Barrichello)
Nobody believes he could be as fast as Hamilton anyway, so Button's got everything to gain by trying to prove us all wrong.
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I'm in two minds over Jen's destination for 2010 and the thought of him being at McLaren fills me with dread. The team that fames itself for having parity does not, and after having his own team built around him going to Hamilton's team would be a bad bad move.
Saying that, I do get the feeling that he is being pushed out of Brawn - no payrise yet he is the WDC?? Odd to say the least. And at least if he were at McLaren he would have a better car and a chance at retaining his WDC perhaps.
As for this nonsense about not everyone supporting JB some of us support Lewis.......two years ago no-one supported him bar a few of us, so no complaining now please.........
So, we could have two Germans in a German team and two Brits in a British team.......very interesting indeed. My money is still on Alonso in a Ferrari though.
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The move to McLaren may well prove very difficult for Button, against a prolific driver such as Hamilton in a team built around him. But staying at Brawn looks an even worse choice with Mercedes making it very clear they feel they can do without him. When your salary is that low and your owners are showing very little in wanting to keep you, what's to stop them dumping you at any time in the future.
Lot's of risk for Button going to McLaren, but far more by staying with Brawn. At least they want him and will go to some degree in getting the car as he likes it. And if the worse comes to the worse, at least he will be £4.5M richer for his troubles. Mercedes have spelt things out very clearly and although not made things totally impossible to stay, as close as you could get.
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#33: I think you're pretty close on the predictions, though in my opinion I can't see Romain Grosjean getting another drive, though Fisi at Sauber makes sense as they are likely to use Ferrari engines. And I'm not sure that a new team like Campos would risk the negative publicity of Piquet - I can either de la Rosa or Marc Gene partnering Senna. As much as I would love to see Kobayashi get a drive, Takuma Sato is a strong possbility for Lotus - though the other Sauber seat would be a possiblity for either too.
Whatever happens with JB, I think the Mercedes takeover is bad news for him. I can still see a Jenson/Nico line-up, with Heidfeld partnering Hamilton, but would that be any better that McLaren? In a way, Button has already lost 'his' team.
I do hope Heidfeld gets a good drive though. A very under-rated driver who's quietly missed out on a lot of deals.
Whatever happens, it promises to be hell of a season...
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I think if anything the 2010 regulations will suit Button more than Hamilton! Hamilton is known to be very aggressive on his tyres and in 2010 the only pit stops are gonna be for new tyres so this is ultimately going to favour those who can can eek the performance out of the car, but without excessively wearing out the tyres and thus making fewer pit stops. I suppose 2005 when the cars had to last the whole race on one set of tyres is similar, in that it became something of an endurance formula, driving as fast as possible, but yet using the tyres carefully. And the World Champion that year was Alonso, so I expect the 2010 regulations will suit him.
But back to Button, so if the rumours are true that he's heading to McLaren then it may not be a bad time to be Hamilton's team-mate. But I still think somehow he will stay at the team where he became World Champion!
2010 F1 Teams & Drivers Predictions:
Mercedes GP
1. Button
2. Rosberg
Red Bull Racing
3. Vettel
4. Webber
McLaren Mercedes
5. Hamilton
6. Raikkonen
Ferrari
7. Massa
8. Alonso
Williams Cosworth
9. Barrichello
10. Hulkenburg
Renault
11. Kubica
12. Glock
Force India Mercedes
14. Fisichella
15. Sutil
Toro Rosso Ferrari
16. Buemi
17. Alguersuari
USF1 Cosworth
18. Villeneuve
19. Sato
Campos Meta Cosworth
20. Senna
21. De La Rosa
Manor F1 Cosworth
22. Davidson
23. Kovalainen
Lotus Cosworth
24. Trulli
25. Kobayashi
Qadbak Ferrari (Formally BMW Sauber)
26. Heidfeld
27. Klien
So there we go, I expect we’ll see a lot of the teams going for the experienced drivers as opposed to the rookies, given the lack of testing prior to the 2010 season. I think the least likely of those drivers to be correct is Villeneuve, but he is a World Champion and has a lot of experience so maybe he is worth a punt for one of the new teams…time will tell, what does everyone else think?
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My 2010 Line-ups
McLaren: Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button
Mercedes: Nico Rosberg and Nick Heidfeld
Ferrari: Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa
Sauber: Christian Klien and Giancarlo Fisichella
Red Bull: Mark Webber and Sebastien Vettel
Toro Rosso: Sebastien Buemi and Brendon Hartley
Lotus: Kamui Kobayashi and Jarno Trulli
Renault: Robert Kubica and Timo Glock
Force India: Adrian Sutil and Viantonio Liuzzi
Williams: Nico Hulkenberg and Rubens Barrichello
Manor: Heikki Kovalainen and Anthony Davidson
USF1: Alexander Wurz and Takuma Sato
Campos: Jaime Alguersuari and Bruno Senna
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RobRace raises a fantastic point!!
no refuelling = tyre wear is key!! the driver who can manage to hold on to his tyres optimum performance for the longest is going to be the one with the greatest performance advantage...on the basis of last season: that will most certainly be JB, with Sutil and Klien following (at least to my memory Klien and Sutil also kept their tyres well at turkey and monaco when others were destroying theirs! feel free tell me to be quiet if im talking rubbish! :P])
also: we all saw how supreme JB was in a car that was well balanced and running at its optimum, he didnt beat Barichello, in the same equipment, by accident 6 times at the beginning of the year, so I dont think people should be so quick to suggest he's going to be annihilated by Lewis straight from the off. If he can get the McLaren balanced as he wants I have a suspicion that he may well be as quick as Lewis, if not faster!
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It seems the the latest driver seatings for next year out weighs the hype of Alonso moving to Ferrari.
McLaren wont take on Heidfeld and if Raikkonen wants his cash which is a factor in his decisions, then Mercedes wont pay his salary let alone Jenson Buttons.
With all the doubts flying around it's hard to make predictions but, in my opinion it all counts on Button & McLaren, McLaren either will or will not match Raikkonen's deal and Jenson either will or will not stay at Mercedes.
Mercedes obviously has the cash to pay Button a few million more, so i htink thier calling his bluff for now, but if he move that leaves Raikkonen open who has made his Championship Winning Standards Clear.
The only other team at the front end with an open seat at this point would be Mecedes (Brawn) but will they pay his salary?
if he sits this year out expect heidlfeld in a Mercedes, problem is Brawn got the jump on everyone at the satart of the season as they had 18months development time and no one listened to Ross about the rear end grey area (double diffuser). But it's clear their in season development was poor, with McLaren & Ferrari doing best in 2nd half of season.
This means that going into next year they may be on their back foot with neither Ferrari or McLaren subdued by title fights, they go into next year on development form.
Red bull proved that despite reliability they can develop a car in season.
All in all this would be a good line up if the first 4 teams/cars were all competitive. Just look at the stats, taking the below data into account + competitive cars.
wc = current world champion
pwc = previos world champion
rwc = runner up to world champion
Ferrari: Alonso- pwc + rwc, Massa- rwc
McLaren: Hamilton- pwc + rwc, Raikkonen- pwc + rwc
Mercedes: Button- wc, Rosberg
Red Bull: Vettel- rwc, Webber
-----------------------------------------------------
Williams: Barrichello- rwc, Hulkenberg
Renault: Kubica, Kovalainen
Manor:
Lotus: Trulli,
USF1: Villeneuve,
Sauber :
the drivers in the top 4 teams can all be fast, hamiliton, raikkonen, massa, button, alonso, vettel, webber have all shown they can rule the day, but in my opinion the only driver who can rul any given sunday and not just drive fast but go wheel to wheel in a front race battle with other top drivers on similar or slightly slower pace cars and emerge in front are:
Alonso - Hamilton - Raikkonen - Vettel - Massa
Ferrai has 2 or them McLaren & Red Bull 1 each so where the other one will go will be an important factor.
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Sorry but this blog is wrong, I knew it all along, it just had to be.
It is just something that was always going to happen, and lets face it if one team can have not only the last WC but the current WC sitting in it's cars, then that alone has to bring in loads of sponsoring money.
This was always going to happen especially in light of the fact that several German drivers are no longer under contract, so the chance for there to be a "Team Germany" and a "Team England" with the same strength weapons had to happen, unless Alonso has the Schumacher touch (i.e. has all the say) these two teams will very probably be the top two next year, what with Mercedes' resources and McClaren's know-how and sponsors.
I really think though next year one: Brawn/Mercedes GP will not have the luck of one having spent the back half of a season developing a car for the next season (including managing to get the FIA to side with them) and two: we all saw how McLaren "did" the rest of the field in the second half of the season (admittedly mainly due to Hamilton), so I do think that McLaren are the team to beat next season and Brawn/Merc GP will not be able to pull the proverbial rabbit out of the hat next year, despite Mercedes' resources.
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I have read all of the posts and agree with comments in most of them. One thing I have to say, that I have not seen mentioned by anyone, is how disappointed I, and I believe many other F1 fans must be, by the way that JB has been treated in this affair. Over the past few years everyone seems to recognise the way that he and RB kept their heads down, their mouths shut and did the best that could, with the rubbish equipment (due in no small part to Nick Fry) they were given. This year both drivers continued to pull together for the benefit of THE TEAM, making considerable financial sacrifices along the way.
If what we are all assuming is correct, then to be rewarded in this fashion is absolutely disgraceful and the people in charge of these decisions should be ashamed of the way that they treat the very people who have helped them win the World Championship.
Naive, accepted but if this is the case, then Ross Brawn, Nick Fry and Mercedes Benz have all gone down massively in my estimation!
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This is interesting, a completely British team. Without mercedes backing Mclaren could be weaker next season but I'm sure Ron Dennis has been preparing for such a situation for a long time. As for Button going into Mclaren, the team where Hamilton won a title and has been raised there since the age of eleven, is risky at the best.
At the start of the season many people belived that if any of the very quickest drivers got their hands on that they could have lapped the field. I agree with Andrews comment that Hamilton is the out and out quickest on the grid, making Button's transition to Mclaren embarrasing if he consistently peforms behind Hamilton, which given the evidence is very likely.
Great blog as always.
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can anybody tell me if a rookie team has come into the championship, won the drivers championship and the constructors championship, then ceased to exist before? It would have been easier for historians if Mercedes had done this last year
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Car setup aside, there is another good reason why JB should not move to Maclaren: Ross Brawn. If there's a better tactician in F1 then they're definitely hiding their light under a bushel. Also he's a very able manager. Look how he defused the situation with Rubens, who after a couple of bad results (largely of his own makng IMO, and why he will probably never be WCh) was hinting at favouritism towards JB.
But the crunch is that the Mercedes (nee Brawn) car was a bodged job last year, stuck together with staples and duct tape. It should be a whole lot better this year. Maclaren OTOH have to come to terms with life after Kers.
Still, it may be that Mercedes want two German drivers, and are making things difficult for JB to stay. In that case he might as well get some moolah.
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Oh, and to those who say that tyre performance will be king, I need to make a point: if one driver can get away from the field and go fast enough then he'll be able to fit in an extra stop and still win. Tactics will not disappear.
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Hmm, could be a good move for Button. Throwing the car about Hami style will kill the tyres, a smoother style may pay dividends in 2010 on full tanks.
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Button is a great driver and generally under-rated, but he does need a car that is sympathetic to his driving style. I would certainly expect Button to get the better of Rosberg in the same car, but not Hamilton. Not only is Hamilton a great driver, but is aggressively competitive and more able to adapt to a less than perfect car. Button should stay with Mercedes for one season before looking for another team. At Mclaren he will really have his work cut out trying to keep up with Hamilton and get a car to his liking. Ask Prost or Hamilton, who both know what it is like to be treated like a No 2 at Mclaren. Not very nice!
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Correction to my post. "Ask Prost or Hamilton" should obviously read "Ask Prost or Alonso". Now that makes sense eh?
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I astounded that Fry can say that Mercedes were keen on Brawn because they ran a tight ship, clearly pointing at Button wanting more money. Fry did nothing at BAR, did nothing at BAR Honda, and for him now to be made a very rich man because Brawn came onboard and then cast judgement on Button looking for a pay rise is galling.
Sure £3 million that Button earned this year is fantastic money for mere mortals, but compared to the rest of the grid it showed his dedication to getting a drive and to the team. Nick Fry never has to face death in his part of the job, Jenson does, and Im sure he could have bunged Jenson a few million for his back pocket from his part of the deal,because without Jenson, would the deal have been done ?
It seems to me this deal was probably done midway through the season, when it was apparent Jenson would probably win the DC, may explain his dip in form and Barrichello getting moody from then on.
I can understand Ross Brawn selling the team for backing, lets not forget the drivers who got the team where they were, the staff who lost their jobs at the start of the year, and the fans who splashed out on the Brawn merchandise
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Rosberg and Raikkonen at Mercedes? I hadn't thought of that combination before...but I think although Kimi and Macca are each others' first choices, we will see the Finn go the way of compatriot Mika Hakkinen and take a "sabbatical" which he will not return from.
All credit to Button if he goes to McLaren and it's not just for the money, to have the guts to go against Hamilton, though it'll be a challenge too far I reckon, though perfect from Hamilton's point of view, as Button is unlikely to beat Lewis on the day but can be counted on to finish ahead of his other rivals when Hamilton needs Jenson to.
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If Button goes to McLaren I think he'll be beaten by Hamilton and it'll be like Alonso/Hamilton all over again.
After Turkey, Jenson was complaining about having a rubbish car ("How can this car be so bad at the moment??") and doing badly. Lewis, even in a bad car still raced well (see Melbourne). That's the difference.
Also, #40, If your prediction is right and the title follows the current trend (British driver in car 22), Anthony Davidson will be the World Champion next year...
It's by no means impossible - a similar thing just happened... ;)
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This is confusing!!
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I don't see Raikkonen in a mclaren ,it makes no sense, he seems one of those drivers that can go off the boil during a race weekend and then post some really quick laps when it is too late to affect the outcome of a race,much like his countryman Hakkinen.Button's smooth style may just suit a car full of fuel early on saving plenty of tyre performance for the later part of the race.
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What does the Mercedes buy-out of Brawn ... mean?
Mediocrity! Welcome to 'Honda 2.0'.
If Button can't get a seat @ Mclaren, he would do fine @ Williams alongside Barrichello or @ Force India - which can afford to pay him.
Button will be competitive against Hamilton (no KERS) and with heavier cars. Whether at McLaren or elsewhere.
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2010 F1 Teams & Drivers Predictions:
Mercedes GP
1. Button
2. Rosberg
Red Bull Racing
3. Vettel
4. Webber
McLaren Mercedes
5. Hamilton
6. Heidfeld
Ferrari
7. Massa
8. Alonso
Williams Cosworth
9. Barrichello
10. Hulkenburg
Renault
11. Kubica
12. Kovalainen
Force India Mercedes
14. Sutil
15. Luizzi
Toro Rosso Ferrari
16. Buemi
17. Alguersuari
USF1 Cosworth
18. Villeneuve
19. Speed
Campos Meta Cosworth
20. Senna
21. De La Rosa
Manor F1 Cosworth
22. Davidson
23. Glock
Lotus Cosworth
24. Trulli
25. Kobayashi
Sauber
26. Fisichella
27. Klien
Question to be answered by anyone. If Kimi doesn't get a drive for 2010 in Formula One, but ends up with a seat on WRC, will Ferrari pay all of the money or what they would have done if he had found a drive?
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I like the look of the driver lineup that LegendaryDaggers predicted earlier, but I think Kovalainen and Fisichella deserve race seats, even if they are at smaller teams. I'd like to see an epic championship battle between Button and Hamilton that should prove once and for all who the better driver is. Hamilton should be faster but there could be less between them than a lot of people think there is.
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My thoughts are that Kimi won't race next year - his only real option is Toyota and I think he'd rather race boats or eskimos than a slow car.
Jenson should and will go to McLaren. He can beat Lewis - and I think he has the confidence now that he didn't have before but that Lewis has always had. Talk of the car being set up and designed for Lewis are wide of the mark- It is contra intuitive to have a modern F1 car sliding around at the back like LH likes - the days of Jim Clarke are long gone.
All the cars are designed with a touch of u/s it just makes sense, Hamilton will probably out qualify JB but just as Alain Prost was beaten on the Saturday but still won the Championship on the Sunday - JB can win races from P2 or P3 on the grid. He's smoother and less prone to mistakes. How many times have you ever seen JB stack the car during a race?
I think McLaren will have the best car come Race 1 and with two different but also very good drivers it should be an exceptional year. That said, my money is on Alonso winning R1 a la Nigel Mansell in 1989, but the Spaniard and Massa won't be close come the end of the season in my opinion - Vettel - Hamilton - Button in no particular order.
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Its being reported in the Guardian as a done deal.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/nov/16/jenson-button-joins-mclaren-contract
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:( was really hoping Kimi would get the second seat at McLaren. I still like Jenson. But given that fact he has been at BAR/Honda/Brawn for so long. I think he might find it difficult adjusting.
That being said I wish him well whatever he ends up doing.
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By the way, has no one else commented on what a good deal Mercedes are geting? A €350 million operation two years ago for what? Perhaps a third of that? They get their own team, already with a championship win already for a maximum of just a hundred million Euro discounted essentially from Honda - an extra coup in itself!
They were never likely to get the same sort of deal from Ron or Martin at McLaren and the grey colour for McLaren Mercedes - West was never quite the same as the silver arrows they they clearly wish to resurrect.
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B&H? ...seems like a certain tobacco firm would be interested in this partnership. Wonder if we'll see a gold McClaren next year too. Also reading about the drivers (Hamilton & Button) different driving styles reminds of Senna & Prost, didn't they both drive for Williams, can't remember how successful a partnership that was, if it ever was... but wasn't it a dream team in the making? And isn't this then?
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with the predictions, how can fisi drive for sauber when he is contracted as ferraris reserve driver? people have obviously forgotten that one havent they
with kimi apparantly going to be paid MORE if he takes a year out will only confirm the rumours that he has 'lost interest and desire' etc, if he decides to take a year out, which would only be for the money, even it is only a year it will be hard for him to come back into a top team, if a driver really loves driving hed get a drive, if kimi does take a sabbatical its f1 career over i think
and whether JB stays at merc or goes to mclaren he will still be up there fighting for wins and podiums, fans will still be happy, id prefer JB to stay at merc (brawn, w\e) though because it is inevitable that LH will always be the favourite at mclaren whoever partners him
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and lol at the complete ignoring at post #34
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Apparently Fisi said at one point that if he got an offer of a race seat he would consider it...
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Prost and Senna both drove , infamously, for McLaren. Won 15 out of 16 races in one season between them then both drove separately for Williams. Prost winning a Championship and Senna later losing his life at Imola.
A dream team in the making?
No. It made Hamilton/Alonso a couple of years ago look like kids stuff. They took each other out in the the last race of the season in consecutive years.
Even when Senna dies Prost refused to give up on the competition between the two so fierce was it. Google it.
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This is well wide of the mark and is simply a rehash of every other story today. If Heidfeld was going to Brawn it would have been announced today. The fact that it wasn't suggests that it never will.
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I find it amazing that noone except ( I think DC or EJ or was it Ecclestone himself ) has paid any attention to the fact that Honda basically subsidised Brawn all last season and and GAVE AWAY all the facilities in Britain to Brawn to enable the team to keep going and the majority of people to keep their jobs.
I find it incredible that noone in the Brawn organisation has drawn attention to this fact and publicly thanked them ... Now Ross Brawn has sold out to Mercedes a team for untold millions that he did not even lay out any cash to buy ,... talk about an opportunist !!
Good luck to JB next year against Hamilton ... at least JB and family laid out their cash to get to the top and were not nurtured through the ranks at every step .. But Lewis is a terrific and entertaining driver and I just hope the team give them an equal shot ..
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McLaren is now definitely a Hamilton team. Had Alonso stayed I don't think it would be, but how can it not be when he has so clearly led the team and demolished his team mate for 2 seasons? The fact that Button would have Number 1 on his car wouldn't matter a jot.
I think, if possible, Button should stay at Mercedes GP; if they don't give him a bit extra money it would be a bit unreasonable, seeing as most world champions of the last 20 years have been rewarded. It seems he could be he victim of pro-German policy here, wouldn't be the first time R.Brawn had been associated with that. Don't think Merc would mind Raikkonen though, given he drove Mercedes powered cars from 2002 to 2006.
I think theres 3 realistic outcomes here:
1.Button to McLaren, Raikkonen to Mercedes, Glock/Heidfeld to Renault
2. Button at Mercedes, Raikkonen to McLaren, Glock/Heidfeld to Renault
3. Button to McLaren, Raikkonen to Renault/ Glock/Heidfeld at Mercedes, the 1 that misses out goes to Lotus or Manor.
But imagine if Button ended up at Lotus and won first year with them too! Unlikely, but never hurts to dream...
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Does anyone honestly think that Mercedes will provide McLaren with the same engine they will be running in their own car? It will be just like Ferrari a few years back supplying teams with last years model.
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I think Jenson should go to McLaren....although I find it incredible the offer of only 7 to 8 mill Sterling....,and he brings the No 1 with him.Brawn being tight with the WC,....no excuse...He won the title....
I think Jenson will be a whole new driver....and will surprise many....
If he goes to McLaren,I believe he will be fighting for the title again,and will fight with Lewis....
Good luck Jens...prove 'em wrong again....You did once,do it again...
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So, Mercedes are back as a works team for the first time since 1955. Great. This will probably put to bed the suggestions that Formula 1 is on it's knees because Toyota followed BMW out of the sport. Ferrari aside, I don't care which teams compete as long as the grids are full and there is some fantastic racing.
Now, back to Mercedes. Apparently they want an all German line-up. Rosberg is 99% there, but I would like to throw another name into the mix. I am amazed that nobody has suggested it yet.
Michael Schumacher.
It nearly happened this year and that near-return has undoubtedly given him itchy feet. Ferrari would like to field a third car for him. Not going to happen. But he must feel like a comeback for them to even suggest such a thing. Whenever he is asked about a possible comeback, he always refuses to rule out the possibility.
He didn't return this year because of his neck and said that it would need a greater recovery time to compete. Instead of three weeks, there are now four months until Bahrain. He must fancy it. It must also be the only team, other than Ferrari, that he would even contemplate racing for.
Other reasons why he could return.
1. He must relish the chance to work with Ross Brawn again.
2. Mercedes will want an immediate return on their investment.
3. He would hit the ground running to lead the team - Rosberg is still unproven at this level.
4. There is no-one better to develop the car and take the team forward.
5. Brilliant advertising for Mercedes.
6. Gives the team their all-German line-up.
Schumacher in a Silver Arrows? Yes please!
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26. At 5:54pm on 16 Nov 2009, biglewisfan wrote:
"The bias with which British journalists write about Hamilton and Button is absolutely astounding. It is like Button is “our boy” and Hamilton “the other one”. It makes me sick. Not every British person is a Button fan you know.
Look at this article: Button prefers a car “which he can control with his delicate application of throttle and brakes” – gosh a more fawning and biased description of driving styles I don’t think one could have."
Please do not shout bias when your user name is Biglewisfan... That quotation from the article is exactly that, a description. It is well known Button is one of the smoothest and most delicate drivers, this is not to say he is better it is just a fact. Hamilton and Alonso 'throw' cars around more, doesn't make them any less of a talent. Infact although I am a Button fan I believe Hamilton to be the quicker driver.
Try an informed, reasoned arguement next time and people may respond better.
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I still don't understand why Alonso is so highly rated in an F1 car - he was admittedly fantastic when he went up against Schumacher, but the benchmark of a great driver is hoe they perform without a decent car. Alonso has done absolutely nothing this year, and last year only really won one race because renault cheated in the other. At McLaren in 2007, he was a petulent child who couldnt take not being the best in his team, and should have done better with what was undoubtably the fastest car.
Its a huge shame to see the Brawn GP team disappear. They really made F1 interesting this year, doubttful that we'll ever see such an underdog story again. Buttoon + Hamilton at McLaren is an intersting combination, definitely glad to have a British team with two British drivers at the top end of the grid. And McLaren will have got rid of Norbert Haug, a thoroughly unpleasant bloke. My guess is that Button will have to play second fiddle at McLaren to the wunderkind Lewis, but I still expect him to be competitive next year, hopefully challenging for the world title again.
@aj, post 66: Fisichella is contractually signed to Ferrari, but Luca di Montezemelo has said that he is welcome to drive for another team in 2010 if he gets ann offer, and then rejoining Ferrari as a test driver (they already have Schumacher and Badoer, who despite his F1 results has done brilliant things at Ferrari)
Lotus have signed a driver, but will not reveal who it is. My moneys on Trulli, but is there a chance Kobayashi could get that other seat? Takuma Sato also rumoured to make a 2010 comeback. Very excited to see Villeneuve contemplating a comeback, same with De La Rosa who was fantastic when he filled in at McLaren a few years back. Think he might have even got a podium.
Finally, I hope Romain Grosjean doesnt get a drive next year. He is slow, uncharismatic, and an underperformer. I can't see him being a star of the future; Kobayashi or Alguersuari on the other hand, maybe.
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personally think ferrari have made a mistake letting kimi go and keeping massa. massa injured and might not be the same driver when he returns. whereas kimi isn't and he has been putting up performances and been on the podium and even won a race in a sub standard car. Kimi is also known for being if not the fastest driver equal with hamilton. massa is a safe driver but it his almost championship yr he showed he doesn't have the bottle to be world champion all the times he let hamilton overtake him he just isn't aggressive enough whereas kimi is. kimi is also a world champion and a race winner. he's won alot more races than massa and when kimi hot there is no stopping him. imagine a alonso-kimi combo. the only reason i can think why they went with massa was they are going to put all there efforts into fernando alonso and massa is just gonna be similar figure to that of barrichello and schumacher
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"you would not find many people in F1 who fancied his [Button's] chances of beating Hamilton in the same car." Button won the title because his car was vastly superior for the first 7 races, taking the last ten races he'd have finished sixth in the second best car. If Rosberg is going to Mercedes he needs to move... Hamilton is at McLaren... to avoid embarrassment from his team mate he shold follow Rubens to wherever he's going... no wait, Barrichello outscored him over those ten races too. Let's just hope that wherever he goes, he has that arrogance surgically removed; heads shouldn't well like that.
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If you think Button/'s move to McLaen is a bad one then your an idiot I'm afraid.
It's the best possible outcome for him in so many ways and it probably suits McLaren, Mercedes and Brawn down to the ground as well.
McLaren first, they appear to have a straight choice betwen Button and Raikkonnen. Undoubtedly Raikkonnen potentially is the faster and better of the two, when motivated, he is a top level driver which will give them the air of going 100% for it next season and is capable of getting results that are better than his car, he is also not too far from Hamilton's driving style. The risk there though is his inconsistency. Button on the other hand is a safe choice, not on the same level as Kimi potentially but you know that with Button you will always get the result that the car is worth AND he will cost half what Kimi is asking, the only problem is the driving style issue with regards to car development, but Button has proven before that even in a car not suited to him he can get good results on race day, it's qualifying where it hits him. So for McLaren it's great to have a choice and going with Button will surely be the safer option.
For Brawn, they are going to find it hugely difficult to continue at the same level, even with Ross saying they are ahead in development. Unless Mercedes are willing to invest Hnda type money in re-establishing the size and scope of the team ASAP I see them struggling to keep pace with developments again next year. Having what will be a new outfit on the grid will give them somewhat of an excuse for any under-performance and the ability to use the line "we're building a team here" could be useful for them. Longer term of course it benefits them, the team just could not sustain it's levels of operation without some kind of but-out, most of the sponsorship it did get was off the back of good will early on and Button being so far ahead at the end. They couldn't rely on either for 2010 so finding a buyer was the only option.
Mercedes were stuck in a difficult spot. I'm sure that their #1 choice was to pair Button and Rosberg. Nico deserves the chance to show his talent in a top car, but ideally he should be doing that without the add burden of being the lead driver to begin with, if you consider all the current top drivers they all got their chances in top cars as a second driver at first (Hamilton with Alonso, Massa with Schumacher, Alonso with Trulli, Vettel with Webber and Raikkonnen with Coulthard). Yes Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel all arguably became #1 drivers throughout their first season, but none of them started the year with that pressure as they had experienced team mates. They can sign Heidfeld who has a lot of experience if they want but he would be just as much a junior at that level as Rosberg would be. Their problem was not not wanting Button but tht they do not want to offer him a multi-year deal. They obviously have eyes on Vettel in 2011 or 2012 to partner Rosberg and that meant that they probably only offered Button a guarenteed 1 year deal, which considering everything this season and the position in his career would not be what he was after at all. Him going to McLaren saves Merc face in many ways bcause he will still be diving one of their engined cars and they can rightly point out that McLaren hav the kind of budget to afford him whereas Brawn did not.
Lastly Button, I touched on this already but 2009 was obviously a career year for him, he will almost certainly never get a better chance to secure a top long term deal with one of F1's best teams and I think that the lngth of contract and the team it's with is far more important to him than the sheer wage scale. I think your figures are the wrong way around myself. Button wants £8m from Brawn because they will not give him a long deal whereas he will take £6m from McLaren on a 3-4 year contract (he would probably accept the same at Brawn bu they wont offer it). So what if he finds himself unable to match Hamilton's pace? It's unliekly that he will be able to match him in the Brawn either and as stated I think he will finish higher in the McLaren. It's also his chance to test himself against one of the best, even today the fact that he never had a proper top level team mate is brought up against Schumacher in debates after all.
No sorry, Button to McLaren is best for all concerned other than funnily enough Rosberg because I do worry about whether he can lead a team and learn at the top at the same time.
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"you would not find many people in F1 who fancied his [Button's] chances of beating Hamilton in the same car." Button won the title because his car was vastly superior for the first 7 races, taking the last ten races he'd have finished sixth in the second best car. If Rosberg is going to Mercedes he needs to move... Hamilton is at McLaren... to avoid embarrassment from his team mate he shold follow Rubens to wherever he's going... no wait, Barrichello outscored him over those ten races too. Let's just hope that wherever he goes, he has that arrogance surgically removed; heads shouldn't well like that.
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Apart from the first line thats a load of twaddle mate.
You cant take the last 10 races in isolation for so many reasons, Button did not need to drive balls to the wall in those races to win the championship so he didnt, when he needed to take risks and be fast he did so, driving at 100% all the time leads to errors, just look at Hamilton for an example of that, not that Lewis can be faultd for it, in his situation it was the right thing, it's all about context.
The Brawn team stopped developing the car, RBR and McLaren (which were both better than the Brawn so where you got second best car from is anyones guess) did not, the development they did do skewed the car more in Rubens favour than Buttons, again the right decision at the time for the constructors title.
As for arrogance, sorry I jsut don't see it. Button has been nothing but gracious whenever he comments on anything about the season, if your talking about holding out for better pay, of course he is and rightly so. He is a world champion now, his team are no smaller than they were when Honda were backing them now they have Merc on board and he is asking for less than he earned with the same outfit two years ago.
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I still don't understand why Alonso is so highly rated in an F1 car - he was admittedly fantastic when he went up against Schumacher, but the benchmark of a great driver is hoe they perform without a decent car. Alonso has done absolutely nothing this year, and last year only really won one race because renault cheated in the other. At McLaren in 2007, he was a petulent child who couldnt take not being the best in his team, and should have done better with what was undoubtably the fastest car.
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No pleasing some people is there? Alonso managed that victory in 2008 and a decent set of results in 2009 with an absolute travesty of a car and while working for one of the most inconsistent outfits in F1. Yes he was petulent in his McLaren year and in the way he left but to question his driving ability shows a significant lack of knowledge on your part. He has consistently pulled the Renault to results it should have never been getting in his two years back there.
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Wait, I'm a bit lost on all these random 2010 driver line ups that are appearing? Is it a well known fact that Sauber are 100% part of the grid for next season?? I haven't seen any offical announcement, just the assumption that they would fill the void left by Toyota.
As for the whole Mercedes thing...Where does that leave Mclaren?? Does it mean in a few years time they will have to get a new engine supplier. It does seem a very long way off but I can only keep my fingers crossed for some kind of Honda partnership like that of the one back in the late 80's that brought them so much success.
Plus I can't see why Button is even considering Mclaren. Sure it would be cool to have two British drivers in a British team but the whole team revolves around Hamilton, and I think this would see Lewis eclipse Jenson easily.
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Jenson Button could potentialy ruin Lewis Hamilton`s career if he goes to Mclaren,as we could have another Alonso - Hamilton.
Button was given a chance by Ross Brawn to sign quickly before Mercedes came and bought nearly all of Brawn(75%).
Next year i can see Button finish 14th and Lewis winning the race.
And i don`t personally like Button either
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Very intresting read, I am hoping Button joins alongside Hamilton for 2010, although it might not be the best move for Button I would become a bigger Mclaren fan if that was to happen.
I am supportive of Rosberg and really hope he is driving a front running car next year, I think he is the most underated driver in the lineup. The last 4 years he's been driving for Williams a team that haven't exactly been on form since 04' even this year the car may have been the 3rd quickest at one point but it quickly dropped down the list.
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#75 Now that would be a headline! Great post.
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@HackerJack. I do see your point in McLaren being a good move for JB, but in my opinion this is only as a result of the Mercedes take-over. If Brawn had remained Brawn, and 'Jenson's' team, then he would have been crazy to move. Now however, it's a different story.
And also good replies to some of the nonsensical comments posted previously.
And as for #34 and #67, I remember Alex Lloyd racing in the junior categories and he is no doubt a talented driver. Nobody whats to see talent lose out to a lack of finance so I can only wish him the best of luck for 2010.
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JB - Disappointed if you leave Brawn because, putting the money to one side, the team provided you with a winning car. This world championship provides opportunity to more than make up the pay gap through sponsorship.
Double disappointment if you join McLaren - they're the wrong car and wrong culture for you imho. They will side with Hamilton too.
Thanks for an entertaining 2009 season!
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The above 87 posts are all very interesting, but what everybody wants to know is what number Lewis will race with...
Can't see him wearing No.'2' behind Jenson's No.1 can you?
Will he do a Damon Hill '0'?
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Interesting note on the driving styles of Hamilton and Button.
Next year will see cars with longer wheelbases so they can accommodate the race fuel. This should (in theory) lead to a car that is more likely to understeer, that is unless you tweak the geometry of the suspension to allow the front to turn in quiker – the pay back of this would be that the car would scrub its tyres faster.
I belive that Hamilton will modify his style in order to take account of the change in dynamics of hte car and tis would bring him closer to Buttons style of driving.
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My comment @1@ I meant Massa sorry about that typeing error. Glock gone to Manor GP
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This all sounds fun for 2010, would it be tooo! ridiculous to suggest schumacher for Mercedes?
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A lot of people seem to be writing Button off rather too soon, a few facts to consider...
1 - for 2010 we have no refuelling (and how long before we no longer have tyre changes too...?)
2 - longer wheelbase cars that may not be quite so easy for drivers such as Lewis to throw around (especially with a full load of fuel)
3 - no more KERS systems
So a few questions....
1 - will Lewis be able to modify his style of driving to suit?
2 - will Jenson's super smooth approach work better with a heavy car, and help him preserve his tyres?
3 - how good will the Brawn/Mercedes be for 2010, as it will be properly designed from scratch to accept the Mercedes engine etc? (see one of AB's recent blogs....)
4 - if Jenson does move from Brawn to McLaren, will it be a good move?
Further to rich2010's comment "Will he (Lewis) do a Damon Hill '0'?"
I don't see that as a possibility - Williams had won the constructers title & drivers title with Mansell in 92, Mansell then went over to Indy Cars for 93, so the F1 World Champion was not racing in F1 in 93, and therefore no one to carry the number '1'.
If Jenson goes to McLaren, then their cars will be numbers 1 & 2, with Jenson number '1'....
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Well the blog post pretty much says everything I would have.
They are too very different drivers. Button likes a smooth drive and Hamilton likes to fight his car.
The difference between the two is so great, that you might end up with a car of blamange. They don't really compliment each other as drivers, and I can't see Button being overly happy about being the number 2 driver, regardless of the number on his car.
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to those who cannot see that hamilton has developed into one of the all time greats I would say ...try opening your eyes
over the last 50 years I have watched drivers attain very high standards , but it is rare for one to have the combination of mental and physical characteristics that are required to be all time greats , maybe once in 10 years
when he proved to be just as fast as alonso in his first year , I wondered ...frankly I was delighted that kimi squeezed past him , both because I felt that kimi deserved it , and secondly because he would [ hopefully] learn more from his rookie mistakes ...I imagine even ron dennis was shocked at how fast he was
second season , less mistakes , still learning
this season , a great lesson for him , that car must have been the worst on the grid at the beginning of the season , but personally I felt that to be A GOOD THING , a terrible shock for him , but an object lesson
so , for me , he is already ...as near as makes no difference ...the finished article
he could even be as good as jimmy clark in the end , and if you listened to the other drivers of that era you would realise that jimmy was in a category of his own ; I just hope hamilton continues to be provided with competitive cars
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A lot of interesting opinions, and for what it is worth mine are that:-
You'll have to correct me if I'm wrong, but surely Jenson is currently World Champion, therefore, over the 17 races (not the 10 someone was mentioning re: Barrichello) he was the best. Barrichello, while a good driver is the most experienced driver in the field....yet has not won a world championship. Jenson won the championship on points, but would also have won it under Bernie Ecclestones attempts at making it fairer with most wins. To win with a race left and by 11 points sound pretty good to me, and that despite only getting 5 points in Malaysia for a race he would have probably also won if it had gone full distance. In fact he would have probably won the championship a race earlier if that race had done. After all Hamilton, had to rely on a last lap pass in the rain, and Raikkonen on the arguements between the McClaren team mates!
Must say, the stick he is getting seems eeriely reminiscent of the comments Damon Hill used to get
We are all interested in money, and I am sure Jenson is no different, but in the past he has shown he is more interested in being in a good car than the amount of money on offer, did't he buy himself out of a contract a number of years back to stay with a team.....might not have been the right decision, but not sure that shows he is after money. And to my mind that goes for being in Brawn last year, by taking the pay cut.
I hope he ends up at McClaren, and while I agree that Lewis is arguably the best racer around, it will be interesting to see how the two get on and how their driving styles differ in similar cars.
As for this being the most exciting season since Michael Schumacher retired, I agree that he was a great driver, but you would have to include most of the seasons he was around in that statement, certainly at Ferrari, as it was some of the most boring racing I have watched, or more accurately stopped watching!
Raikkonen is another great driver to which his world championship attests, but can't say I would greatly miss him being around next year if that is what happens. And I think if anyone could be said to follow the money, then he would have to be considered.
The great thing with this season in particular and looking forward to next year, is that no one really knows what is going to happen, a year of upheaval this year has completely changed the grid and those you expect to be running at the front. The big two look to be on their way back and you would expect Red Bull, in particular Vettel to remain there or there abouts but who knows, so it's going to be interesting. As for Mercedes, who would bet against Ross Brawn, certainly Brawn looked to struggle
In my opinion it has been one of the best seasons for years and am looking forward to it all starting again in March.
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I think this move would be a big mistake for Button, and a shame for F1 in general. As you point out Jensen will be leaving a team that will presumably provide him with a car suited to his driving style, whereas McLaren will provide him with a chassis inherently suited to Hamilton's love of over-steer. It is hard to imagine Jensen getting the upper hand on Lewis to often.
The second problem with Jensens move is that it will almost certainly spell the end of Kimi Raikkonens F1 career. He has publicly stated that McLaren is the oinly place he would go. Now I'm sure if the money was right Kimi would happily partner Brawn at Mercedes GP, but that is a big if given the sort of cash Kimi is no doubt demanding. To me the loss of Raikkonen would be massive. I cannot understand why the media has not made more of it. He is undoubtedly one of the fastest guys around... it seems to me that on his day he is untouchable, and while his performances are sometimes lacking, I suspect a lot of that is down to him not being given the car in which to shine. He also has a wonderful no nonsense approach harking back to the good old days of motorsport.
Id love to see Button stay with Brawn where he will have a real chance to continue shining, and then maybe, just maybe McLaren will stump up the cash for Kimi. Hamilton v Raikkonen in the same car... Now that surely would be a spectacle!
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I'm very dissapointed with Ross Brawn and Nick Fry. I thought we had a new British team - no it's a new German team. Hence, I understand Jenson wishing to move on. At first the thought of being Lewis's team mate was a big worry. I regard Lewis as the best. But at least Jenson will find out and will have a good car next year. Better than being beaten by a German driver really.
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Please sign my petition to save the British F1 race at:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/BritishF1race/
Also join the Facebook: Save the British F1 race.
Thanks
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Fantastic news if Button is confirmed as Hamilton's team mate at McLaren. Button is as natural a driver as Hamilton, he just hasn't had the same opportunities. Providing McLaren supply them with an even playing field it should be great to watch them compete together.
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well jenson isnt famous for his wise career moves is he? silly boy. If he hasnt got the mind game to deal with Rosberg in a German team he certainly wont be able to get a handle on Hamilton, expect lots of whinging and moaning about oversteer blah blah blah. Button is far to fragile mentally to be a consistent top line driver, once hamilton is regularly beating him we can expect the swift decline of jensons career .. maybe thats why he's so keen on the money, he knows he'll need it sooner than most.
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"Interesting note on the driving styles of Hamilton and Button.
Next year will see cars with longer wheelbases so they can accommodate the race fuel. This should (in theory) lead to a car that is more likely to understeer, that is unless you tweak the geometry of the suspension to allow the front to turn in quiker – the pay back of this would be that the car would scrub its tyres faster.
I belive that Hamilton will modify his style in order to take account of the change in dynamics of hte car and tis would bring him closer to Buttons style of driving."
In previous years when Ferrari have had a noticeably longer wheel base than McLaren, it has been McLaren who have suffered with tyre wear issues. With Ferrai suffering because they could not get their tyres up to optimum temperature for qualifying!
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Now, Mercedes has taken a 75% shareholding - which it has bought from Brawn and Fry. I have no idea how many millions it paid but, as well as securing the future of their team, Brawn - already a millionaire thanks to his years at Ferrari - and Fry are now undoubtedly rich beyond most people's wildest dreams.
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To be honest it would be very disappointing if Brawn and Fry have profited so mercilessly from Honda's benevolence. Surely if they have managed to make a winning team still using Honda's funds (which were in place for much of 2009), then a large chunk of the money being paid by Mercedes should also find it's way back to Honda.
I know it doesn't work like that, but it does seem incredibly callous that Brawn is so willing to sell up simply to line his already very well lined pockets.
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Does this take over make Brawn GP statiscally Formula 1's most successful team ever.
100% Constructors Championship success rate
100% Drivers Championship success rate
and a nearly 50% race win success rate
Not even the mighty Ferrari could ever match that record
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I know it doesn't work like that, but it does seem incredibly callous that Brawn is so willing to sell up simply to line his already very well lined pockets.
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He sold up because the team will not survive otherwise.
Brawn, as well off a he is, does not have the money to subsidise an F1 team. Sponsorship came last season out of good will initially and success later, they would have had a lot less good will this coming year and any drop in performance would erradicate the second as well.
I dont believe it was ever his intention to keep the team long term, anyoen who does is frankly not well in teh head.
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I agree with F1 fanatic's list except for one thing - Kamui Kobayashi was amazing in his first couple of GP races and is an obvious new talent - surely one of the teams will have noticed this? I think we can look forward to another amazing season in 2010!
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I think Liam McDonagh was the most accurate so far.
Raikkonen is likely to take a year off if you ask me.
The USF1 seats seem to be nearly impossible to predict. They will probably have a hard time getting quality drivers with all these talks about them not being ready goign around. They'll probably try to lure Takuma Sato.
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Beethoven's Left Ear,
you have to remember, Brawn and Fry took a huge gamble using their own money to try to keep the Honda outfit in the sport. I think they worked their asses off, gave us a tremendous season to watch and deserve every penny of their profit. Well done to them.
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A lot of people seem to be writing off Button but the very few times he's actually had a competitive car he's been as quick as anybody.
I don't agree he's made that many bad career moves either he opted to stay at Honda rather than go back to an uncompetitive Williams, big deal, Williams haven't been on the pace for years. I'd love to know how suddenly Button can't handle the pressure, he drove brilliantly in the last 2 races in what was obviously not the fastest car to win the championship, anyone else remember Hamilton's collapse then near collapse in the 2 previous years?
Hopefully the one thing we won't get is the pathetic whingeing like we had from Alonso when he was outdriven by Hamilton!!!!
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Regarding Michael Schumacher theories: that would be AWESOME!! haha, unlikely I think, as Im pretty sure that the only team that he would return to drive for would be for Ferrari, since he has basically immortalised himself through them!
I seriously cant help but wonder why Jenson hadn't signed for Brawn before the Mercedes buy-in; as in: there must be a very good reason. Why would you not resign for the team who just got you your maiden world title, in their maiden season, and are optimistic for next year...?? someone suggested that a lack of commitment (one-year contract instead of 3-4 years?), which I agree with, would be a major stumbling point. Button has dedicated alot of his career to the BAR/Honda/Brawn team, and is a big part of the reason they were so successful last year; it is his team, so there must be something else going on behind the scenes that the public arent being made aware of.
I dont really care where he ends up, I'v been a Button fan since his very first race for Williams in 2000 as the next English driver on the grid after Hill's retirement, and I will continue to be a fan no matter who he drives for :-)
Also, I think that all the Jenson bashing going on is a tad harsh considering he's just won the world championship! Clearly not a poor driver, and he will stand up to Hamilton at McLaren, or Rosberg at Merc. and do a good job, if they are better, so be it, but it certainly won't be for lack of effort!
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Jenson might be second best to Lewis, but might still win.
Graham Hill was second best for just about all his career (Clark, Surtees, Stewart, Rindt .....).
If Button does that well and has a good car, he has another couple of world champion years to come.
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Jenson Button had a chance to shine at Brawn, i dont see why he should join McLaren, Lewis Hamilton is a star at McLaren and i dont their will be a healthy chemistry among them. Hamilton may shadow Button, and if Hamilton fail to win a thing their will be definitly other champion which is Alonso or Rubbens Barrichello will steal the 2010 show.
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I love the idea of McLaren being an all-British team with a New Zealander's name.
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I think this may be closer between Button and Hamilton than people are suggesting. There is no doubt that Hamilton is the faster driver but lets not forget that next year refuelling is banned so these guys will be driving very heavy cars at the start of a race that are very hard on tyres. Buttons style is much smoother than Hamiltons and will be easier on his tyres throughout a race.
Just my Tuppence worth.
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First impressions:
1. Having both my guys on the same team would be awesome though I am bummed that Brawn weren't willing to give Jenson the payrise he quite frankly deserved as a world champion though.
2. As I have said before though I believe Hamilton would beat Button in the same car so Jenson would likely be the latest British WDC to fail to defend his title.
3. The biggest unanswered question at this point has to be Raikonen. Prior to the Button talks I'd have though he was the safe bet for the second McLaren seat.
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Just when I was preparing myself to hibernate for a few months the whole F1 world is crashing around us!!
So many questions with too few answers...here are my gripes, moans and 10 pence' worth of thoughts here in a list...
1.Well done Ross Brawn - he has secured 100's of jobs for many years to come with the Mercedes buyout. The need to save so many jobs outweigh the prestige of one individual...
2.Kimi - really wanted you at Hamilton GP!! and it's looking more unlikely for it to happen,so where to now? If Brawn can't afford Button then he certainly can't afford you! What a shame!
3.Button - you've been sacrificed by Brawn for the good of the many, and Hamilton GP is a HUGE gamble, though that's never stopped you jumping teams in the past...and if Mercedes can put their money in a Brawn buyout don't they have enough loose change to pay a World Champion his wage demands?? All very fishy to me...
4.Kovalainen - who cares? I don't.
5.Kubica - I care and I'm very worried about his future. If Renault decide to pull the plug then where does that leave him??Sightseeing with his mate Kovi if he's not too careful...a real utter waste of his talents if he has to take a season break.
6.Vettel - will he reach the heights next year with a Newey car sloshing around with all that fuel?....new rules might not help the flighty Red Bull, though I'm in agreement that it's only a matter of time that this incredible German will move to a Mercedes...and win a title.
7.Kobayashi - Finally, a Japanese driver who can mix it in F1...I hope he gets a drive, though it's disgusting how his previous employers Toyota are jumping ship in such a manner...at least Honda tried to help its former team as much as they could. Toyota are leaving many here and in Germany to fend for themselves, with no plans (as yet) of a potential buyout - very poor indeed.
8.Hamilton - will his driving style suit the new regulations for next year? the boy racer will blitz it for 10 or so laps and overcook his tyres with a heavier car, thus compromising his race....he'll learn though,and when he does...whoa betide anyone who gets in his way!
9.Siverstone - what's happening? Do we have a British GP or don't we? Messy and embarrassing...
10.Massa - I hope he's 100 percent in both body AND mind next season.
A very good driver, his accident is the making or the breaking of him...
11.Webber - fair dinkum. Underplayed his horrific injury with wins and great drives.Much of the same from this gutsy guy - did the move of the season for me on Alonso...
12.Alonso...
It's not about being the fastest. It's about the best racer who can get the best out of their tyres and reach constant optimum limits as the change in fuel,change in car weight, and tyre degredation will affect the way a driver approaches the race.
If there was ever such a thing as the F1 scriptures, then Alonso at Ferrari would surely be biblical in every way. He is no longer in exile and as long as the Ferrari is competitive then I have no doubt that he can deliver - again,and again,and again...a born winner and very very clever behind the wheel.
I am however, profoundly worried about the stratospheric expectations now heaped upon this move, and if Alonso can't deliver then the let-down would be worse than the hype surrounding "Star Wars - The Phantom Menace" when first released....and that would be nothing short of disastrous...
13.Bernie - once cryogenically frozen, your active thought patterns will, in the year 2525 (if man is still alive), mastermind a GP around the rings of Saturn, only for it to be scuppered at the last minute when the Cylons refuse to pay your fee... watch this space etc....
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Good blog, just wanted to say it bore out my doubts about Button ( or any top driver really) partnering Hamilton. As you rightly point out, there's too much "previous" in McLaren to suggest it's going to work for Button this time round. Bad move
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I think this is not only a positive move but hopefully they'll make a good fight of it.
There are always too many brit-bashers who said that Jenson isn't a worthy world champion, he was lucky, his car was the best (well, certainly it was in the first half of the season), everyone else was unlucky and so on.
Generally, the best car wins. Irrespective of the driver. I firmly believe that McLaren will have the best car next year.
The big question is, will the car be built around heaps of oversteer like it had this year which suits Lewis? or will it be more neutral which won't favour either of them?
And one of the big things that we know is that Jenson can make a set of tyres last whereas Lewis has always been known for flat-spotting them. With no fuelling, clearly if you can make your tyres last longer, you're going to have an advantage.
We all forget quickly that it wasn't long ago that Jenson was the new boy, he DID come 3rd in the WDC not so long ago and in an unfancied car.
Oh and one word for all those Jenson doubters. Brazil.
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... the saying: "never change a winning team" should apply ! Money issues are for football players. JB should be happy with 3.5 mln, (if that's what the market is willing to pay ...) and look at the long term perspective ... not short term gains. Says a lot about JB('s management !?!)
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I personally think Jenson won't leave the team who he won the championship with, as it is known that loyality was to play a huge factor in this decision! I would like him to stay at Brawn/Mercedes.
As for the other drivers, what will happen to Hekki K? And Rakionnen? It would be a shame that neither of them get drives, they are both top class drivers, particularly Kimi.
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In reply to : carlonso No 117
Spot on. Whatever else he is, Brawn has always been a team player and has paid respect to everyone who contributed. Tough choice if you have to weigh hundreds against the delivery driver. Still slightly disappointed though. Who _knows_ what was offered, by whom, and when?
Crossing fingers for Webber and Kobayashi to have real chances next season.
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Biglewisfan: "The bias with which British journalists write about Hamilton and Button is absolutely astounding. It is like Button is “our boy” and Hamilton “the other one”. It makes me sick. Not every British person is a Button fan you know."
I find this rather hilarious as someone who's a fan of both drivers. For the two years prior to this one Button was ignored by the media who fawned over Lewis, and as soon as he returned to winning ways this season the focus switched to him again. Far more attention was paid to his travails this year in a bad car than Button's struggles with even worse cars in 2007-8.
I can't understand how anyone can make the argument that Lewis doesn't get enough press coverage... especially since Button has just succeeded him as world champion and therefore, one might think, deserves some of the spotlight for a change?
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#120
I find it hard to begrudge Button asking for significantly more money from Brawn and going elsewhere if he doesn't get it. After taking a 60% pay cut at the beginning of the season in order to secure the future of his team, then delivering the World Championship, he's considering an offer from McClaren that reportedly isn't even as much as he was earning under Honda. If Brawn don't want to pay him more then fine, a contract has to suit both parties, but I think I would be looking elsewhere in his position too.
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on the pairing of JB and LH i can't helping wondering what the results of last season are going to do for the drivers. Many of LH's critics said he needed a spell in an inferior car to improve his craft. I didn't agree as i reckoned any experience would improve it anyway, but hey ho, he got his spell in an inferior car. And i also wonder what being crowned world champ will have done for JB ... his confidence, desire to keep the crown etc. Much is made of their differing styles but i think other factors are more likely to be crucial, unpredictable stuff, reliability for one thing, and you just can't get away from luck (ask RB and MW about that).
I'm looking forward to next season. hope KR is driving too and that we have a few genuinely competitive teams.
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TRUE.......Hamilton is an out and out really fast racing driver.....!
TRUE.......Hamilton is an exciting young driver to watch........!
TRUE.......Hamilton is an integral part of the current Mclaren F1 stable.
These are all plus points for next seasons viewing.
Watching Lewis Hamilton wrestle with the awesome power that is generated by a modern F1 car is something to be savored on a GP weekend.
Now consider the prospect of adding a different dimension to a team that has proven time and time again that they can produce race/championship winning cars.
That different dimension comes in the form of Jenson Button.
I personally would love to see these 2 guys go head to head in the same equipment.
Jenson has proved this year that tactical considered racing can be equally exciting as gung-ho adrenalin fueled aggression. His overtaking this year has been second to none......! The way in which he seems to be able to gently caress the tarmac with minimal effort (although I'm sure he's working really hard in that cockpit). The understated way in which he consistently brings his cars home in the points.
True racing fans want to see as much overtaking as possible (in an environment which is more and more difficult).
Jenson has a style which appears to show a man who has managed to tame the wild beast in which he sits, this is impressive and should be respected.
Lewis has a style which appears to show a man who does not want to tame the beast but wring it's neck, this is equally impressive and should also be respected.
Contrast creates interest......I want my viewing of F1 to be as interesting as possible.
If Button does end up at Mclaren, I say good for him. He may well need a fresh challenge after becoming World Champion. What better challenge than going to a team that everybody seems to think is a no hope situation. I admire his spirit of adventure.
I'm sure Lewis would equally enjoy the prospect of going up against another tough team mate, racing against Alonso brought the best out of Lewis. Button vs Hamilton in the same team, from the point of view of an English F1 Fan is something that really gets the mind buzzing.
If it all goes pear shaped Jenson lives in the knowledge that he will forever be known as a F1 World Champion.........
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I don't understand Mclaren, next year Button will be much slower than lewis and then he'll be complaining about everything "understeer... oversteer... ross brawn... oversteer".
I think Kimi is a much better option and I think he would work hard all year and wouldn't only give 50% like most british fans think!
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BREAKING NEWS!!!
http://www.f1crazy.moonfruit.com
I just found an article about how "Kimi could still join Mercedes GP"... says Norbort Haug!
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http://www3.mercedes-benz.com/mbcom_v4/gb/motorsport/en.html#/series/1/news/id/192/pictures
If the new Mercedes car looks anything like this then what is the Mclaren going to look like?
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first of all, this is my first comment on any blogs and i'd just like to say i think the BBC coverage of f1 is top class and i hope you continue to do such a good job. secondly, i think jenson would be better staying at mercedes as he has no chance of beating hamilton at mclaren. in my opinion kimi is best for the job.
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nobody is looking outside the box here...mercedes benz have a great driver on their books called Gary Paffett...watch this space peoples
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F1 without a finn racing in a top team or in any team for that matter is to me just unthinkable. F1 needs it's top stars and best drivers on the grid and to me only Lewis Hamilton can be compared to Kimi Räikkönen in terms of natural talent out of the current crop of drivers. To have the top 4 drivers in the top 2 teams would take F1 back to where it was in the 2007 season, the year the sport was revitalised in many people's eyes.
For me, Finland needs another World Championship but at least Formula 1 needs a quality driver like Kimi on the grid. If he doesn't get/chooses not to take up a seat for next year the way it looks now is that a massive F1 country like Finland will only have half a driver competing (Nico Rosberg).
I've always rated Jenson and I'd be happy for him if he gets the McLaren seat and think in terms of his career it would be both the right and logical choice and think he could well surprise a few people. Still, I'd be terribly disappointed if Kimi would no longer be involved in F1 and think that although Jenson is a good driver, with Kimi at McLaren they would have 2 potential World Champions. With Jenson and Lewis, as said many times here before, it would remain somewhat 'Lewis' Team' and it would easily turn into Lewis vs. Ferrari and perhaps Vettel as well.
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Number_2010 doesn't Kimi Raikkonen have a clause in his severance arrangement from Ferrari that means he will be paid more money for sitting on the bench in 2010? As far as whether Jenson Button will be quick in a Mclaren, of course he will, they set-up two Mclarens differently for Hamilton and Alonso, they'll do the same for JB and LH in 2010 and onward. I have a sneaky feeling under the new rules for 2010 Jenson button will come into his own, the cars start the races full of fuel, and the first 20 laps will be tippy toeing around to preserve their tyres while the car is heavy - Jenson will come into his inheritance! He can teach all the drivers a little about how to be smooth and preserve the car. It will be a fascinating 2010 F1 season.
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This is very interesting, and the 2010 F1 season is starting to shape up nicely. As much as it is a highly attractive driver line-up, Hamilton and Button at McLaren could become uneasy.
They are both world champions, but McLaren is by now very much built around Lewis Hamilton, meaning he could well get the better out of the car. This would mean an angry Jenson, and after the 2007 saga, this is not something McLaren will want.
Saying they are both competetive together - it would be a cracker. I'm hoping for the latter.
Disappointed to see the Brawn name disappear after just one year, but boy, that name will be remembered...
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pedal2themetal,
yeah I think he does, so good for him financially, and he'll be able to persue his rallying passions, but F1 will be far poorer for it
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pedal2themetal the story I read said Kimi got paid less by Ferrari if he was racing in F1 instead of sitting at home. I guess the puzzle is to find a team where he both has a chance of wining as well as coming out ahead financially. There are probably four teams that could convince him - Ferrari is obviously out, Red Bull seems settled (there's enough of a rules change that Adrian Newey might turn out another great car in 2010), McLaren & Brawn (if someone puts up enough money).
Apart from that, I'm intrigued to see how the heavier cars and the drivers interact - in that respect I assume Kimi must be easier on the rear tyres that Massa after the problems with the 2008 Ferrari and getting the tyres up to temperature, therefore it's possible the new regs. could be good for Jenson & Kimi, less good for Lewis & Fernando. I'm not sure where Sebastian fits into that puzzle.
Anyway, if Kimi decides to sit out the season, I wonder if he would be tempted to make a guest appearance for Force India at Spa? come to think of it, if the weather was like 2008 he could probably win in his Fiat Punto Rally Car!
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I dont think that jenson will do vey well at mclaren because they have always favoured Lewis and it will be like alonso all over agin
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According to a Finnish newspaper (http://www.ts.fi/online/urheilu/89167.html) Kimi's manager Steve Robertson has confirmed that negotiations with McLaren have ended and he'll take a year off from F1.
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f1 fanatic you clearly have no idea about anything. Kimi has left ferrari and wouldnt rejoin. Button has clearly left now Merecedes have taken over and glock and di grassi have signed for manor
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People are going on about how JB will be embarresed by LH if he goes to Mclarem... well with this new regulation iam not so sure LH will have all his way. And stop saying if button join Mclaren will be the end of his career because it mite come to bite you... Just chill and see what happen and dont speak for LH.
For all LH fans, i say this... u will get to see some amazin laps by him but then you will wander how the hell Button sill managed to get in front...
Anyway enough this... Mclaren vs Mercedes
The fact that we can have England vs Germany in F1 is amazin and will only help F1 and bring more fans... so if JB goes to Mclaren people here should start showing support to both drivers.
With Ferrari, Red Bull in the mix, we are in for an amazin season.
I expect button to make less mistake than the other top drivers and he should score almost every races if not all...
I just feel the likes of Hamilton,Alonso,Vettel. Will try to show they are the best drivers and will mess up in some important races. You just know this will happen.
So Button along with Webber, will just keep it cool and take advantage.
Let best man win!
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Re post 89 and rich2010
I can't see Hamilton being allowed to race with anything but the number 2 on his car if Button does join McLaren...
The times that Damon Hill used the "0" was when the reigning World Champion was no longer on the grid and the lead driver coming in, Prost in 93 and Senna in 94, who would normally have the lower number, did not want to be "0", hence they took 2 leaving Hill to be the number nought.
I agree with you though that Hamilton would hardly be happy with it, but I don't see what choice he has..
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I think Jenson's best chance for points next year will be to attach a tow-rope to the back of Lewis' car and hope to fnish second.
Then again, given Ron Dennis seems to be back on the pit wall now mad Max has gone, maybe that's eaxctly what they'll try.... ;-)
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dansus....You nailed it....Hammy is one quick guy...very quick....but Jens is not as far as all think....and his style of drive is gonna be needed for next year....Jenson....I hope you make 'em eat it,large...All that think,what? Just wait and we'll all see....Sign...and add a bonus if you do the double...
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I do find it quite sad to see Brawn taken over by mercedes as they were the roy of the rovers story of the massive underdog taking on the big boys and winning. However after having just won the world championship you would imagine that they would be willing to pay the world champion what hes worth! Jenson was loyal to that team in its many incarnations for many years and i dont blame him for moving onto pastures new now hes achieved his and the teams dreams.
P.S Its amazing the different amount of names people are suggesting in their next seasons lineup for manor gp even tho the news glock has signed for them has been on this very website all day!
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Haha either mercedes have totally lost the plot here or they are taking the michael! http://www3.mercedes-benz.com/mbcom_v4/gb/motorsport/en.html#/series/1/news/id/192/pictures listen to the samples in the music its the pit radio from when lewis was "misled" in australia
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I wonder just how long ago Brawn did his deal with Mercedes. It does make sense if he talked the deal maybe the same time he got his engines for this year. Why Brawn has been so reluctant to put adverting on his cars this year, and maybe why Virgin are off to another team for 2011!
When it became Ross Brawns team, Mercedes must have leaped at the chance of having a Ross Brawn lead Mercedes team for 2011.
I think JB is mad to go to McLaren, Just take the money Brawn offer and win races with a team that is based around you. You have the merc engine. But in the same car as LH, sorry, but its going to end in tears for JB.
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REF 142
Jenson should either drive for Unigate GP, get on a turbo charged milk float or work for team principal Mr. Grimsdales, because he should milk his one and only world championship for what it's worth....
Poor Jenson etc...should'nt team up with Lewis
Poor Kimi etc...can't team up with Lewis
Poor Alonso etc... teamed up with Lewis only to fall from grace etc etc etc bla bla bla...as this blog has poignantly pointed out and in the immortal words of Rolf Harris - "can you guess what it is yet?"...
To McLaren and Hamilton fans - it pains me to say... how blinded are thee to the fact that McLaren have inadvertantly created a Frankenstein in their team....NO ONE CAN TEAM UP WITH LEWIS- NO-ONE!!!!!and before I get the Hamilton fascionistas on my case (yet again) McLaren really need to shatter their illusion of treating their 2 drivers with parity ...as the Orwellian saying goes,"some people are more equal than others" and it only takes an ignorant fool to see that this is the mantra set by McLaren..Button will be the F1 equivalent of Icarus..and Murray is right - he shouldn't go, yet there are multi-million pound forces at work that go beyond the comprehension of an F1 blogging fan...
Kimi was probably the only one with the right temperament to just shrug his shoulders and get on with the job.... and I'm sure any F1 fan would love to have seen that team put together...but not McLaren it seems - no way.
...Years in investing in their prodigy so as to be sandbagged by the Flying Finn?!
...and the sponsorship...apart from Nokia what does Finland have? 4 million odd people with the lights out for half the year....which leads me to...
NUMBER_2010
I don't see what right a Finn has to be in F1 - for that matter what does any nationality? Name me a Finn before the 80's that wowed and woed the sport?
Alonso, a Spaniard, is an anomaly in his country- Spain had NO-ONE of F1 influence - yet his influence has led to record crowds in Spain (all motor bike enthusiasts before the Asturian came to prominence) and also led to the European GP being held in Valencia...Before Michael Schumacher, name me a German driver who so eclipsed F1... now we have Glock, Rosberg, Sutil and Vettel in the mix...its about geography, influence and power of sponsorship.
I would love to see a driver from Japan,India,Mali,Nepal whatever etc. being able to have the chance of winning the damn thing?!
As always, there is mucho money and sculduggery at work here ... Kimi should be in the McLaren seat and Button should have his wage demands met by its new owners, but alas, the politik that is F1 is beyond any rational reproach...
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waldick
"The fact that we can have England vs Germany in F1 is amazin and will only help F1 and bring more fans"
F1 is a global sport don't forget, so just who will this possible fixture excite? a handful of patriotic Germans or English.. hardly a great scoop for F1 in terms of marketing the brand.
Carlonso
You think you're being funny by making fun of my home country? "apart from Nokia what does Finland have? 4 million odd people with the lights out for half the year". Finland's one of the most technologically advanced and developed countries in the world, lights out for half of the year? That's both extremely disrespectful and ignorant. More the latter. And please enlighten me on exactly where I made a point about Finland having any kind of divine right to have a driver in F1? I think you'll find if you read my article again that what I was actually commenting about was that for me F1 wouldn't be the same without a Finn involved and that for a country where F1 is one of the biggest sporting attractions, it would be detrimental for it's popularity and image to lose representation in it.
I find your references to drivers of other nationality totally irrelevant and also don't see how the fact that Finland had no driver who "wowed and woed the sport" before the 80's in any way connected to the current conversation, to the status of the sport in Finland or the specific situation we're talking about here (which is Kimi not going to McLaren by the way).
Please educate yourself better before commenting on issues like this in the future and maybe you should also think about re-reading comments before replying to them just to make sure you've understood them correctly. Good night and Good bye.
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Kimi is out of F1 for the next season. His manager Steve Robertson confirmed that to a Finnish newspaper.
He will most likely drive WRC rally and possibly Red Bull sponsored Citroen.
F1 will be boring for us Finns next year with no drivers on the grid.
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Button couldnt win for losing - he was going nowhere fast - he got lucky with a Honda golden handshake, with all the heavy lifting already done.
Brawn also got real lucky - Button going to Mac could be the kiss-of-death for the team - and even if he does sign for 2010, aint nobody gonna use him in 2011. Ever. He is old, damaged goods, baby. There are way too many smarter, younger, cheaper, better drivers out there.
BR>Jack
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I dont think F1 is a sentimental sport. It is pretty cut-throat. If Jenson wasnt good enough and there were so many people so much better than him, he wouldnt be getting millions each year to do the job. Personally I cant wait for next year. I think him racing in the same car as Lewis makes for a very well balanced team for McLaren. No matter what the conditions, or how the new one tyre regulations plays out, McLaren would seemingly have it covered.
And Im not sorry to see Kimi leave for at least a year. He has been simply uninspiring this year. And the fact that he would rather take the money and sit on the sidelines and watch rather than take any money and drive any F1 car tells me he has his head well and truly stuck where the sun doesnt shine. Driving in F1 is a priviledge, not a right, no matter how good you think you are.
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Let's get real about Button. He was at best ordinary in the 2008 Honda and spent most of his time racing around in 11, 12, 13th position. He was presented with a car which was far better than the rest at the start of the 2009 season and used it to good effect. But the car won the title, not the man.
I'm not necessarily a Hamilton Fan, but his 2008 Championship win was far superior to Button's. Favoured by Dennis or not, he bested Alonso over the season and let's not forget the two quick Ferraris he beat in the process.... Put Hamilton in an ordinary car and he can add that extra something to drag performance out of the car, much like Schumacher.
Put Button in an ordinary car and, as he has proved, he is just ordinary....
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Well Kimi Raikkonen has just announced that he is taking a "sabbatical" from F1. He will try and land a rallying drive and aims to return to F1 in 2011.
Now then;
* this means that the likelyhood of Jenson Button landing a McLaren seat alongside Lewis Hamilton looks all the more likely...
* and what will ACTUALLY happen to Raikkonen? Will he fall in love with rallying too much?
* will he do what his Finnish predecessor Mika Hakkinen did and turn sabbatical into retirement?
This is very interesting...
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Id be surprised if Kimi comes back to F1.
And by the looks of the latest headlines, Button has signed for McLaren.
All our gibberish is purely hypothetical. Now we will get to see just how good/bad Jenson really is. Personally I dont think he will be as bad as many people are predicting, but what do I know.
I do think that confidence plays a very large part in how well a driver does. Lewis cant be anything but confident after the F1 life that he has had. Jumping straight into a competitive car and challenging for race wins from day 1. Taking a world title at the second attempt and then with that high confidence, getting the best from a struggling car. Jensons story is a little different however. A very long string of poor cars with mediocre at best results is bound to make you start thinking 'Do I really have what it takes', but this year in a car that was for the first time competetive for at least half the season, he goes on to take the title. With the confidence he gets from that and the release of pressure from him knowing that no matter what his name will be in the history books as the 2009 WDC, I think he will return a very much invigorated man and really up for the challenge. Whether or not he has the talent to match Lewis, we will have to wait to find out.
Nice to be excited about the prospect of the racing rather than all the rubbish that has gone on for the last few years.
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Button's career is littered with poor decisions and he's just made another one. He could have stayed at a team which had given him a world championship, been familiar with the team around him and, most importantly, been allied to Ross Brawn, one of the most successful strategists in the sport. Instead he's joined a team with a firmly-established and successful driver who has stronger momentum to take him into the new season. I believe Button has been extremely foolish.
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As Mercedes draws nearer to total f1 dominance, the prospect of a Battle of Britain style David and Goliath mini saga is really rather tantalising. The all British line up at Maclaren pitted against the rather likely Deustche line up at Merc GP, could add a humorous bit of spice to the 2010 season! It would be all the more humiliating not to have a Silverstone. Come on Damon, put your money where your mouth is!!!
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Even if it was just for the money, can you really blame him? The last two champions earn at least double what Brawn/Merc were offering! That in my opinion is an insult to Button.
He's had it all through his carreer, people always underestimate him because he's fairly chilled out and it comes across that he's just doing it for a laugh. To do that when he's the reining world champion even though his car was getting progressivly less competative through the year.
Maclaren are always going to be one of the best teams in the sport, even in one of their worst years Hamilton actualy won the last 3rd of the championship. Merc are kidding themselves if they think they can be competative next year but keep the budget down near what Brawn had last year, given the amount of money the shareholders of the team made (because of button driving out of his skin) they should have given him a respectable pay offer.
The people who think he's not got a chance in the same car as Hamilton should think again.
It's a level playing field, Button has far more experience Hamilton appears to have slightly more natural talent. Given there will be no pit-stops next year Buttons smooth driving style could make Hamiltons agressive style look like rookie enthusiasm, or Hamilton may be able to turn it up a notch further than Button can in crucial stages of the race.
The two are excellent at passing other drivers and probably two of the best 3 drivers on the grid.
Either way it's going to be an interesting season, I just hope that Maclaren have a campionship wining car so the two can go head to head for the drivers title.
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Well A British Team with two British Drivers who are the current and previous world champion is just brilliant from my perspective. It will make it very interesting next year and EVERYBODY (not just Brits) will be watching McLaren for the battle of the champions.
Different styles is good. OK development of the car may favour one but both drivers have their own set of mechanics and can set-up differently. Indeed being different will enhance the battle as the two cars may have very different set-ups.
Button- Foolish? Perhaps but personally I think brave. He is taking on arguably the best driver in the same car. Also he should get a bigger pay-day as world champ and it is still far less than Hamilton, Alonso and incredibly Raikkonen who is being paid a mint to do NOTHING in F1. He is off in a huff to rallying.
I hope the two drivers they maintain a reasonsable relationship. Hamilton will be slightly favoured, he has been brought up there but the Mercedes buy-out would likely have marginalised Button at Brawn/Mercedes GP anyway.
Personally I think this is intriguing and although KERs is going I am sure that McLaren will have one of the best cars out there.
Mercedes have shown a lack of ambition already and I wonder how much their call will move on next year. Red Bull (with Newey) will continue to be competitive I am sure. Not sure what will happen with Ferrari....
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I find it very hard to feel negative about Jenson’s move to Mclaren.
People are arguing that he should have stayed with the team that he has been with for the last few years. Unfortunately that team has just completely changed, I get the feeling that he was not wanted by the Germans; if they did then they would have met his, not unreasonable, wage demands. I fail to understand how they think they can do better with Rosberg and Heidfeld; they have obviously got them for a bargain price.
It's been said that Jenson’s career has been littered by bad decisions; well joining one of the best F1 teams in history can hardly be described as one of them. It is now up to Jenson to prove that he is a worthy world champion; I am convinced that Mclaren will provide him with a car capable of doing that. I am also convinced that he will be given equal billing with Lewis. The team must be delighted having Jenson after the disappointment of Kovelainan, even if Lewis is the faster driver they now have someone who should be able to act as a reliable wingman, not that I’m saying that Jenson is going to be any slower than Lewis, only time will tell on that.
Next season is going to be very interesting, some major regulation changes, new teams and different driver line-ups, I can’t wait.
But the main thing is two British drivers in a British car, fantastic, bring on 2010.
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World champion in as no 2 to ron's "lovechild" Hmmm.
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Well it's happened...but I can't believe people are still trashing Jenson. For crying out loud, he's the reigning world champion and Rubens is no mug! What the hell does he have to do to convince you people he's a quality driver in his own right?
As for the Lewis haters..."Hamilton can't mix with anyone" zzzzzzz! It was Alonso that had the chip on his shoulder in '07! Alonso gets booted, no further problem at McLaren. Simples.
Of course the arrogant Spaniard seems to be teflon coated. That's Ferrari's problem now.
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Bottom line is that, after playing it tough for a few weeks, McLaren proved too weak and succumbed to the pressures of Hamilton Management aka Anthony not to accept a top driver in the team. Something Montezemolo had refused to do when the same candidate knocked on his door.
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"......you would not find many people in F1 who fancied his chances of beating Hamilton in the same car."
I made this very point when I first heard this nonsense. Why oh Why would Button join a team where he clearly going to be second fiddle. Has he got no pride? He is SUPPOSED to be world champion for goodness sake.
Hamilton is by far, a country mile, the superior driver.
If Button is 'blind' to this and has moved for money then this is a bad day for the sport and Button will soon find out that he is going to require motivation to drive at Maclaren's level.
It will no longer be sufficient to have a 'package' drive him round.
The Upside? Button may learn something from Hamilton with regards to style and setup....The problem is will Button listen or want to listen?
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Jenson's decisions have led him to be World Champion - hard to fault that outcome! McLaren have the best driver line-up for entertaining F1, for winning the Driver's Championship and for winning the Constructor's Championship and Button is part of that too - hard to fault that outcome either! The Constructor most likely to build a competitive car with the rules changing little for 2010 (long cars to fit fuel tank) would be the one who made the most progress towards the front of the field over the 2009 season, especially if that took said Constructor near to the front of the field in the last races. That team is McLaren where JB is - another decision that's hard to fault.
It's now down to McLaren to build a competitive car and encourage a team approach for their drivers in the first half of the season and then an out and out competitive approach between its drivers in the second half.
If McLaren do this, we have a great spectacle ahead next year.
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"Jenson's decisions have led him to be World Champion"
Well you could say that, or it could be that after 10 years of trying, and as his only option for a drive last year was the almost bankrupt team which offered him a seat but at a huge pay cut and which he felt he didn't have much choice but to take seems it sort of made the "decision" for him. As it happens it was a lucky "decision" as quite clearly Brawn had the best car for the first half of the season and an adequate driver to take it round the tracks, however it is also pretty clear that once the other teams sorted their cars out, that the stronger drivers pushed through and Button was shown for what he actually is, which is an average driver who just made a lucky "decision" in the right place at the right time!
As for his latest move, anyone who thinks it isn't money related is living in cloud cuckoo land.
I'll eat my hat if he shows anything other than an average performance next year, especially when placed alongside Hamilton which will probably give Hamilton an even grater incentive to be back at the top, not that Hamilton needs much additional motivation, but with the so called 2009 Champion in the 'second' car, he's gonna make real sure to be at his very best, so that's something to look forward to.
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Post 157:
regarding button and hamilton: "The two are excellent at passing other drivers and probably two of the best 3 drivers on the grid"
i agree with the overtaking part, JB definately passed more than his fair share of front runners last year! and lewis had to pass everybody over the course of the season. however, i would still place Alonso, Vettel, and possibly Massa ahead of Button in pure speed, whilst keeping Hamilton in aforementioned company.
though, with the new refuelling (ie: lack of) deal being such a big thing to accomodate, we dont know how the cars are going to drive next year...which for me makes this line up VERY exciting! :D
roll on March 2010!
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Well that's that then.
Hamilton and Button for McLaren.
No Kimi in F1...very disappointed by that.
I wish Button well - Mercedes obviously had an agenda within the Brawn team when they bought it - who will partner Rosberg now?.If it's Heidfeld then Mercedes are playing the long game ie. use Heidfeld's experience for a year or two and then pounce on Vettel once he's out of his Red Bull contract - Mercedes + Rosberg + Vettel + Brawn = untold success.
It'll only be a matter of time when we'll know if Jenson was pushed, or had no choice but to take the McLaren hotseat.
It'll certainly be fascinating to watch contrasting styles within the team.
I hope Button gets equal billing and that his engineers manage to produce a car for a driver who operates within a very narrow sweet spot...
roll on next year!
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Can't help feeling Jenson's face didn't fit in the Mercedes setup. They had already signed up Rosberg some time ago, and I believe had spoken to Heidfeld, so there must be suspicions of wanting an all German team. How to get rid of Jenson? Simply offer him an unrealistic financial package, then he would have no choice but to move on.
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I’m over the moon in knowing Button joined McLaren!
I cannot wait to see which driver will be favoured.
In the past there were bias comments favouring the Englishman.
Now argue amongst yourselves.
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When I started following F1 in 1984 (I was a very precocious baby!) the UK had Martin Brundle, Jonathan Palmer, Nigel Mansell and Derek Warwick all racing. Realistically only Warwick (in the works Renault) was seen to have a chance of winning races and none of them were expected to challenge for the championship.
Fast forward 25 years and we are reduced to 2 UK drivers... but both of them are World Champions and both are expected to be competitive next season. Have we sacrificed depth for strength? Is this a price worth paying? I suppose it is but I miss the days of a plucky Brit chugging round at the back of the field in a Zakspeed.
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I find most of the negativity surrounding Jenson somewhere between mean-spirited and wrong-headed.
The fact is he managed to win the WC in his first year in a competitive car. Yes, he did get twitchy once it was his to lose (just like so many others in the past).
Those suggesting he's making a mistake joining McLaren and risking being second best to Lewis are presumably saying he should stay with Ross Brawn and hope he builds him a superior car to McLaren. That's his only chance of retaining his title they argue.
Of course if he did get a great car (with Mercedes) and beat Lewis everyone would say it was just the car and Jenson was a passenger.
At 29 with a WC under his belt, surely Jenson wants to find out once and for all how good he is in one of the top teams against one of the top drivers on a level playing field.
If he succeeds, he proves to everyone (including himself) that he is truly a great driver. If he doesn't, he can console himself that he was a good driver who got to win the WC (like James Hunt, Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve etc). There's no disgrace in that.
Personally, I think that the new regulations may suit his style and even things up between him and Lewis.
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Hi Andrew, hi all
F1 world is getting more and more interesting! Very intriguing so far, of course. Can’t wait for more announcements from teams and drivers!!
First for me in all this is that Ross Brawn is a very passionate person, loves his F1 and is a very hard working boss / leader. And he is very clever too. Brilliant move to sell more of his Brawn GP assets to Mercedes. In a way that is a secure future and this in long term will give them stability. Though we never know and can’t be totally sure for the future. But looks Ross Brawn always finds a way and makes the right – long term – move. Last year he had to STEP in personally though (that was the ONLY way then) and try to save something. Can write more on the subject but other time. And we saw even the little worked. Even for Jenson Button.
In a way I think Jenson’s move to McLaren is not bad for him personally. Reasons I can tell a few, but will leave you to guess some of them : ).
Andrew, for me it is not about “beating Hamilton in the same car”. 1st I really don’t fancy this term “same car” when it comes to F1. Even in one team. Yes, the basics are the same. But it has always been more than that for me. Set up, balance, race tyre choices, how you care about the tyres, driving styles, taking chances, making the right call on the right time, strategies, etc. Even who is your race engineer. That’s only part of the story and this is one of the reasons I / we love F1. It is a very complex sport.
2nd – does anybody think there is a driver to beat Hamilton in McLaren at the moment? Alonso couldn’t do it. It is just that Mclaren is built around Hamilton. (though I don’t underestimate Lewis as a driver!).
Honestly F1 fans, Andrew, now I am not that much interested whether Jenson can beat Lewis. I am more interested of the next Ross Brawn and Mercedes GP move!! Even Nico Rosberg and Nick Heidfeld can be a very good line up for 2010 season. And win some races. The team behind them proved is a winning team too.
Yes, I am much more interested now in the next (clever) move by Ross Brawn and Mercedes GP. Hope so, of course : ), is a clever move.
Cheerio!
PS. 152. At 10:29am on 18 Nov 2009, ferrariforever wrote… “But the car won the title, not the man.” – Yes, Jenson Button was very fortunate to be in that team that year. If it was me I would never forget that and mainly give the credit
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170. At 1:55pm on 18 Nov 2009, marystalin wrote:
"Fast forward 25 years and we are reduced to 2 UK drivers... but both of them are World Champions and both are expected to be competitive next season. Have we sacrificed depth for strength?"
It's called FINDING YOURSELF IN THE BEST CAR, which in F1 is all that matters for a driver and the media establishment around him. Glock is probably better than Button or at least as good and he's signed for the worst team.
In single-chassis series where it's more feasible to compare drivers across the grid, after 2006 and di Resta winning the F3 Euro, and Hamilton winning this and the GP2 albeit in the best team (which is one of the reasons he is so acknowledged and respected), the ones standing out have been Hulkenberg, Bianchi and Grosjean, and to a lesser extent Baguette, Vettel, van der Garde, Pantano, Glock, Soucek etc. No British driver has come near them. Same in Formula Bmw, Formula Renault, Formula Master etc. Foreigners have even been winning the British F3 for years which is effectively a national series.
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2010, #148....
And there was me thinking it was just Kimi and Mika who had a bit of a problem with a sense of humour and the ability to take a joke. Maybe it is a national trait after all ;-)
Personally think the 'fun' in the McL camp will be as nothing to what's gonna go down over at Ferrari - Massa v Alonso.... hehe! Any bets on which F1 driver punches which other F1 driver first next year guys?
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Concerning JB being nothing more than lucky after ten years to be in a great car (and thus becomeing World Champ), why didn't Baracello (who often gave Shuemaker a run for his money), get even closer to Jenson or even beat him ....?
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@marystalin - When I was younger, my Brother and I always used to say "Oh, here comes the unfortunate Martin Brundle". As time went along, it became the "Very unfortunate Johnny Herbert".
Us Brits love a loser. It's why we have to knock Jenson. We couldn't possibly remember Brazil and Abu Dhabi. He'll always be remembered as the unfortunate rubbish Brit who happened to fluke the first 6 races on a technicality, somehow managed to pick up points in every race (bar one) and yet will always be remembered for what he couldn't do.
I've said it before. He came 3rd in a very unfancied Honda not so long ago.
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#170 'I suppose it is but I miss the days of a plucky Brit chugging round at the back of the field in a Zakspeed'
Well who knows, you may get Anthony Davison doing just that. How exciting. Or Button of course in his McL set up for Lewis......
But the people complaining about Jenson's choice can't have it both ways. If he'd stayed at Brawn he'd have been accused of running scared of taking the option of a better car and the challenge of performing against a 'top' driver. Jenson's no worse and probably better than some other former Brit champs - Hill and Hunt-the-shunt come to mind - or the likes of Villeneuve, (lord knows why anyone wants him back, he was truly average at best), and now he has the chance to prove his doubters wrong big-time. Good luck to him, and be delighted to see him prove me wrong in thinking (like many of you) he's no better than average.
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great blog!
i want kimi in mercedes!
i just found a side that has news on villeneurves return and kimis drive at mercedes! i love it. they had the kimi=merceds story two days before anyone else!
this is it... http://www.f1crazy.moonfruit.com
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