Pick your classic F1 season finale
First, an admission. Figuring that the world championship battle would go down to the wire for the fourth time in a row, we had planned the final edition of this year's classic races series to be about great title deciders - and now Jenson Button has gone and messed it all up!
It is a bit late to change our plans now, though, so we're going to press ahead. As it happens, four of the five choices are, like next weekend's Abu Dhabi race, the last race of that particular season as well as - unlike Abu Dhabi - a title decider. And all of them are true classics, whichever way you look at it.
Unfortunately, we have not been able to include one of the races we wanted to - the 1997 title decider at Jerez in Spain, when Michael Schumacher infamously tried to take rival Jacques Villeneuve out of the race. The tape we were sent by ITV has had the post-race interviews recorded over the first two-thirds of the race, so it's impossible to cut a proper highlights package of it.
We will look into finding a full version of that race at a later date. In the meantime, we have chosen the final event of 1980, the US Grand Prix East, as its replacement.
In a way, this is appropriate, as - like Abu Dhabi this year - although it was the final race of the season, it was not a title decider. Just as Button has now in 2009, Williams driver Alan Jones clinched the world championship at the previous race, which was in Canada.
It was, though, a drive befitting Jones's new status. The Australian qualified fifth, but ran wide on the first lap and finished it in 14th place, whereupon he embarked upon a quite brilliant recovery to win the race.
Who knows? Now Jenson Button has been freed from the pressure of the championship, perhaps he will produce something similar on 1 November.
That 1980 race also marks an important watershed in F1 history, as it was the last at the superb Watkins Glen road circuit in upstate New York. After that, 'the Glen' lost the race, and various US Grands Prix rotated around a selection of temporary tracks in cities before the race dropped off the calendar altogether after 1991.
Lauda enjoys an embrace with his wife after winning the 1984 title as team-mate Prost looks on
It came back in 2000 at a purpose-built track at the famous Indianapolis Motor Speedway, but even that has now fallen by the wayside.
One hopes that when F1 finally gets a US GP back on the calendar - as all the teams are determined it will - it will be held at a track as deserving of such an important event as was Watkins Glen.
That brings us neatly on to our second choice - the Las Vegas Grand Prix in 1981. It was the first of two F1 races on a track constructed, believe it or not, in a car park of the Caesars Palace Hotel. In fact, "constructed" is too complimentary a word - the track layout was simply marked out by concrete blocks.
This unprepossessing site was the scene for a quite remarkable title decider.
Argentine Williams driver Carlos Reutemann headed into the race with a one-point lead over the Brazilian Brabham driver Nelson Piquet, with Frenchman Jacques Laffite, of Ligier, a further five points adrift.
And when Reutemann qualified on pole, with Piquet fifth and Laffite down in 12th, the championship seemed to be his for the taking.
But Reutemann, who is now a leading politician in his home country, was arguably the most enigmatic of all great grand prix drivers.
He finished the first lap in fifth place and, increasingly unhappy with his car, lost a further place to Piquet on lap 17. He then slipped out of the points - which then went down to sixth place - when Alfa Romeo's Mario Andretti passed him a lap later.
In the closing laps, Piquet was visibly on the verge of collapse, his head lolling around in the cockpit as the desert heat got to him, but still nothing could rouse Reutemann and he limped across the line in seventh place. And as Brabham team members spent 15 minutes trying to revive Piquet, Reutemann slipped away almost unnoticed. To this day, he has never satisfactorily explained his performance.
Our next choice, the 1983 South African Grand Prix, also ended with Piquet as champion, but in completely different circumstances.
Unlike Caesars Palace, the old Kyalami was a truly great track, and it was a fitting place for a title showdown.
Alain Prost and Renault were the dominant force in 1983, but as the season came to its climax, the Frenchman cut a haunted figure - insisting to his team even after a win in Austria gave him a 14-point lead with four races to go that they would lose the title if the team did not develop their car.
Sure enough, Prost was right and Renault were wrong. Brabham's performance improved dramatically in the final four races of the season and Prost went into the final race with only a two-point advantage over Piquet. Ferrari's Rene Arnoux was also in with a slim chance, seven points behind his countryman.
Prost's optimism was not increased when Piquet qualified second, behind Ferrari's Patrick Tambay, with the Renault only fifth, and his worst fears were realised when Piquet streaked away into the distance in the opening laps. It was soon obvious the Brazilian would win the race if he needed to.
On lap 35, that need was removed when Prost retired with turbo failure, and Piquet, now requiring only a fourth place, backed off and allowed team-mate Riccardo Patrese to claim the victory.
A few days later, Renault, looking for scapegoat, sacked Prost, a decision that ranks with Honda's abandonment of F1 at the start of this season as one of the worst in F1 history.
For Prost, though, it turned out well, as our next selection, the 1984 Portuguese Grand Prix, proves.
Out of a drive at Renault, Prost was snapped up by McLaren, where he became team-mate to Niki Lauda and formed one of the all-time great partnerships.
McLaren dominated the season and while Prost was nearly always quicker, he also had by far the worse of the luck, and the two men arrived at the final race of the season in Estoril with Lauda leading Prost by three and a half points.
Prost, as expected, won the race easily, and the main interest focused on whether Lauda, who qualified a lowly 11th, could get up to the second place he needed to pip his partner by half a point.
With 20 laps to go, Lauda had hauled himself up to third, still agonisingly short of what he needed and with no apparent prospect of catching the Lotus of Nigel Mansell, which separated the Austrian from his team-mate. But then Mansell retired with brake failure, Lauda was promoted to second, and the title was his.
Consoling a distraught Prost on the podium, Lauda said: "Don't worry, next year you'll win it." And he was right.
The final choice is also an all-McLaren affair. It is the only one of our five not to be the final race of a season - but what a race it was.
McLaren, now with Ayrton Senna as team-mate to Prost, dominated 1988 even more comprehensively than they did 1984 and the two men arrived in Japan for the penultimate race with the Brazilian in with a chance of clinching his first world title.
Senna duly qualified on pole, with Prost alongside, but Senna stalled on the grid. Fortunately for Senna, Suzuka's downhill pit straight enabled him to bump-start the engine, but not before he had dropped to 14th place.
There began one of the great comeback drives. Senna began to scythe through the field and his cause was helped when it started to drizzle on lap 14.
Always brilliant in wet/dry conditions, Senna's advantage over the rest of the field was magnified and by lap 27 he was with his team-mate, passing him as they attempted to lap a train of three backmarkers. Prost hung on for a while, but with the rain coming down increasingly hard Senna was not to be denied.
So there you have it - five great races, four of them all-time great title deciders, and one a great season finale with a title already wrapped up.
As ever, let us know your views on your favourite - and any you think we should have included. Next week, in the run up to Abu Dhabi, we will publish short, five-to-nine minute highlights package of all of them. And for the race we choose to select - a decision that is informed by the views of respondents on this blog - we will show the full half-hour 'Grand Prix' highlights programme from the time as well.
I look forward to reading your responses.
The love affair has blown hot and cold, but Formula One has had me in its spell for most of my life. After 16 years covering the sport, in which I have reported from more than 100 Grands Prix, I am as thrilled by its heights, fascinated by its complexities and exasperated by its idiosyncrasies as ever. I hope there will be plenty of all of them to share with you now F1 is back on the BBC. You can also follow me on
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~15~RS~)
Comments
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1988 thanks! Been a great year of classic F1. Thanks very much to the BBC.
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1988 please. Great choices again, hopefully 1997 will be available next year. Also, 98 and 99 in Suzuka are worth a mention.
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I would love to see 1981 please, thanks. F1 cars racing round Las Vegas sounds like a winning combination, especially with a thrilling title decider thrown in.
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Hmm tough choice.
As I am sure I am one of the older fans on this board. (i.e closer to 50 that 30!) I would like to see one of the earlier races. 1983 was a bit of a drag to be honest. Piquet disappeared up the raod and then slowed down to give away a win to be sure of winning the title...
1981 was a case of who could drive the least slowest to win the title. Also that year the cars were being driven to the stupid 6cm rule that the teams had long since bypassed with hydraulic suspension.
So 1980 it is then please. (If you could find any footage of Gilles lapping 11 secs quicker than the rest in the wet qualifying then that would be super too!)
Expect 1988 to get the final nod though.
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Just a quick point of order to Silverstone79, you are mixing up two different races at Watkins Glen. Villeneuve's amazing performance in wet practice was in 1979, not 1980. If you look back at the session stats, he was fastest by 8.5 seconds - and at one point was 11 seconds quicker than any other car on the circuit at the same time, including team-mate Jody Scheckter. Quite incredible.
I did consider including that race in this selection because it was a good battle between Villeneuve and Jones for a while, but decided against it in the end because 1980 is a better fit with this year.
It's a definitely contender for a showing next year, though.
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(If you could find any footage of Gilles lapping 11 secs quicker than the rest in the wet qualifying then that would be super too!)
Actually you will have a job....it was 1979 !!
Maybe next year !
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1980 Watkins Glen & 1981 Las Vegas please !
I haven't got either on tape and they're both interesting because Watkins Glen is one of those great lost tracks, and the Las Vegas race, despite being held in a car park, was a great finale. What happened to Carlos Reutemann ?
I would've chosen Kyalami, but I've already got a betamax recording of it. It's a great track which won't come back now because they've built on parts of it. It's very sad. 1983 was a great finale too though, because like 1981, there were three vying for the title.
1988's race is boring quite frankly. That season was made forgettable by complete domination by one team. Great team, drivers and engine, I know, but very dull to watch really. I know it was a great drive by Senna, but it's rather yawn-worthy when you consider his talent and the great car he was in.
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I can't see past 1988, a truly great race.
Surprised 1994 wasn't offered! Or did you already show it for the first instalment of this section?
And I agree - the lack of a US Grand Prix is nothing short of disgraceful.
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I'd vote for 1981. Just so I can see what a grand prix in a car park looks like.
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So far the votes are:
1980: 3 votes
1981: 2 votes
1983: 0 votes
1984: 0 votes
1988: 4 votes (Including me!)
1988 Please!
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Has to be 1988 from the choices although I'd like to have seen both 1994 and 1996 (Hill v Villeneuve) included as choices.
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1980 please and I concur with silverstone79!
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Andrew, i have somewhere the complete '97 jerez race on vhs. If this would suffice and enhance your coverage please email me.
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88 all the way!
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1st choice - 1988 - Senna genius, what a legendary drive... Triumph over adversity.
2nd choice - 1984 - Great Lauda drive and a bit of luck... Something he didn't always have.
Stewzer,
- http://www.formula1-blog.com
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What about last years? The title was decided on the final corner of the final lap.
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@16
Last years we have already seen on Brazil classic Grand Prix
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Watkins Glen is a horrible track that has been neutered from its once-great form in the name of saving lives. Before that the Glen was exciting, but extremely dangerous. Even in its current form, the Glen is still unsafe for F1 speeds. The looming armco at practically every turn, plus the lack of any decent straights, means it would be a Monaco-like procession, without the glamour.
The only track in the US that deserves the GP is Laguna Seca. That track has great elevation changes and challenging corners. Crucially, it also has many safety features that were introduced in the past to elevate it to F1 standards (for a Grand Prix that never arrived). It probably still needs some tweaks for extra safety, but should make for a great race.
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1986 Australian Grand Prix is the one for me.
Nigel Mansell needed to finish in the top 3 to win the title. Team mate Piquet and Alan Prost were also in contention. Those of us who got up early that morning to watch the race looked on with astonishment as Mansell crashed out with just a few laps to go. At that time he seemed destined never to win the F1 title.
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Looking forward to all of them! F1 should be back in the U.S of A and no mistake.
South Korea!!! India, c'mon I know that they are emerging markets but Bernie should remember the roots of F1 and the manufacturers.
Anyway I getting off-topic.
Vegas baby!
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1980 race at The Glen please.
I am thoroughly enjoying the classic F1 coverage that you are offering - A BIG THANK YOU!!
I hope this service continues after the last race of the season. Please don't hibernate until March 2010.
Andrew
So the tape from Jerez '97 had the post race interviews recorded over the first two-thirds of the race...
Was there a work experience person helping out at ITV archives or was it James Allen "helping out"?
Hmmmm??? Will we ever know the truth!!
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Andrew, thanks for the correction, but I hope you noticed that I posted that I was in error at 11.02 - exactly the same time as you !!spooky !
ta ta for now.
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2008 Brazil and 1986 Australia (and to pre-empt others, 1994 Australia) were already featured in the Brazil and Australia votes respectively.
In 1988 Senna's drive was legendary, but I'm voting tactically for 1980 Watkins Glen. A truly brilliant track and it sounds like a truly brilliant race.
I urge all posters beyond me to use their votes wisely. Based on the early voting we could get both 88 Japan and 80 Watkins Glen in full highlights!
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1984 as its the only year so far that the championship has been won by half a point and 1980 as i haven't seen Watkins Glen. Too bad we couldn't see Jerez '97 as that was an enthralling race. (I would love to see highlights of Portugal '85 as well)
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Um... as a special end of year treat, can we have them all? Please?
If not then '88. I've wanted to see that race for years.
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Andrew
This is a toughie - do I go for lost circuits or winning drivers?
I would love to see Watkins Glen and Niki Lauda winning it so...
1.1980
2.1984
3.1981
1988 all the way - but I've seen it so many times!
NB. BBC - Murray Walker's one-to-one with Carlos Reutemann. We know more about the Mary Celeste than his reasons for quitting the sport...
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I reckon 1997, was a fantastic weekend, first 3 on the grid with identical times, great race too. other than that I though the 86 mansell blow out was good and 93 Sennas last victory was a poignant race (but not overly exciting!)
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1st choice - 1980 Watkins Glen
2nd choice - 1988 Suzuka
Watkins Glen is one of the few legendary tracks that hasnt been built on or ruined by Tilke and any chance of seeing F1 cars racing it should be snapped up without question!!
Suzuka - Iconic track (still with the original 130r) iconic car, iconic driver and one of his trademark iconic drives! nuf said!
Hats off to the BBC this year. The coverage has been so much better than anything that has gone before, especially with the red button. Would like to know if there are any plans to show any footage in the off season?? Maybe the first tests in January/February?? Classic races over Christmas???
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1980 with the Jones boy please. 1980 was the first year I ever attended a Grand Prix (Zandvoort). Since then, I've been an ever present attendee.
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I would actually like to see 1983.
From what I heard the Renault team had a whole delegation flown to South Africa, being sure they had wrapped up the championship already.
Bittersweet for Alain Prost!
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No 1986? 4 drivers went into the Australian race having a chance to win the title - and what a line up: Senna, Prost, Piquet & Mansell! Never in F1's history have we witnessed such an incredible set up to a championship decider...
Mansell's tyre blow out; Piquet apparently cruising to the title then having to change tyres; Prost eventually taking it against all the odds and stopping his car just after the finish line due to fuel?
Amazing!
anyway, rant over - it would be 1988 or 1983 for me....
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1983 please
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Portugal 1984 is one of Murray Walker's top 5 races ever, enough said, first vote.
Second vote is for 1980, as I've heard so much about what a gritty driver Alan Jones is and I've never seen the evidence.
Suggestions of other title deciders: 1964; 1958.
Thanks to everyone who has worked on this and other F1 features this year. First class job.
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I'm sure I've watched the whole Jerez 1997 race on YouTube, so I'm sure the Beeb can get hold of a tape in time for next year. Actually quite surprised you were getting the tapes off ITV for 1997-2009 races; I just presumed you were getting them off Bernie TV.
Most of the title deciders I would have picked (Australia 1994, Brazil 2008 for example) have already been shown, so I was wondering what would be chosen. I have seen none of the races picked, so I'll be happy to go along with everybody else's picks.
As for races I'd like to see next year, 1997. 1996 would be nice to watch. Also, it could be a good excuse for Brazil 2006, if it's not picked for Brazil's week.
It looks like Abu Dhabi is going to be the final round next year, so I presume Classic GP will be title deciders again? If so, what do you have planned Korea and Singapore? Classic races no longer on the calendar would be good again.
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What was the year that noble, honorable, unselfish German bloke took out his nearest challenger to win the title?
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If we can only have one (you are really harsh cause I'd love to see all of them!) it will have to be 1980 for me. Mainly for all the drivers that were in that race!
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Shame 1997 isn't there. I will vote for 1984. Will the classic f1 series carry on next year?
@35@ It was 1994
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Watkins Glen 1980 please!
Andrew some questions;
What races do the BBC have before 1979?
Does the BBC still have footage of Senna vs Brundle from the 1983 F3 championship?
Please answer if you can!
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I would be glad to see any of the races that you have selected, but my first choice goes to the 1980 Watkins Glen race. This is simply because I have never seen any F1 footage from the Glen and this oppurtunity is too good to miss. Second choice from me is Estoril 1984. Another great circuit sadly no longer on the calender. Third choice is Suzuka 88.
May I take this oppurtunity to say thankyou to Andrew Benson for providing this classic GP discussion forum and for the bringing us the archive footage throughout this season. I would like to add my voice to those people calling for this feature to be continued throughout the off season. I dont think I can hold out until Melbourne in March.
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How could you avoid mentioning Adelaide 1986????
A classic, 3 way fight for the title, won by Alain Prost in extraordinary circumstances. That race had everything and was the most dramatic finish I can remember.
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Loving the 100% 1980's selection - very retro!
1980 please. Would love to see what Watkins Glen used to look like (though im guessing its quite similar to what it is now lol!)
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Alas, i wish SOME people would BOTHER to read the blog before opening their mouths. You want Australia 86? Why didn't you watch it in March???
I'd also like to say thanks Andrew for introducing such an excellent feature and hope its back next year.
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I think that Australia 1986 was shown earlier in the season but I remember getting up to watch our Nige win only to see that tyre let go in such a fashion!
I quite like the irony of it actually... Nigel's Lotus failed him in the last race in '84 to effectively deny Alain the title before his Williams suffered a blow-out in the last race of '86 ti hand the title to Alain (who, by the way, generously conceded that in his opinion Nigel deserved it the more).
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1988 on freeview please.
When the season is over it would be great to keep this feature going with Classic BBC races (forget the itv era until next season)This would help make this feature even more successful next season and keep people visiting the website.
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1988 please!
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1980 please, would love to see the Glen in all its glory especially as I still drive it a lot on Grand Prix Legends on my PC.
A massive thanks also for running this feature all season it's been great fun watching the old footgage.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
2007
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2007
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1988 Please.
It was an awesome drive.
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First choice Suzuka, then Kyalami - that track was fearsome and provided great races because it had dog-legged straight like Interlagos.
Andrew:
"And as Brabham team members spent 15 minutes trying to revive Piquet, Reutemann slipped away almost unnoticed. To this day, he has never satisfactorily explained his performance"
I'm sure you're aware that Reutimann was a sensitive soul who felt he never felt he had the full support of Williams and of course Carlos had a strained relationship with Alan Jones especially after Carlos broke team orders and decided to win for himself.
Because he he needed his confidence boosted he jumped straight into a different car on race morning instead of the car he qualified in. At warm up session he had to bed in the brakes not knowing the how the bad teh car was at racing speeds.
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With out a doubt, 1988 was a truly magical drive at one of the great circuits. I wondered why it was missing from the Japan GP selection.
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42. At 1:16pm on 22 Oct 2009, swrcsky wrote:
Alas, i wish SOME people would BOTHER to read the blog before opening their mouths.
_____________________________________________________________________
What a lovely human being.
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My vote goes to 1988, its one of my fav races and to all those asking for the 86 & 94 Aus gp, your too late they were shown in march.
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1986 is best and gets my vote.
The dramatic exit of Nigel Mansell just a few laps away from claiming the world title is as exciting as it gets.
@42 Frankly, I dont care if it was shown earlier this year. If you cant be civil why bother to post here.
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1986 Australia is here --> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7960132.stm
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47 i agree with you 100%
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1980 Watkins Glen, please.
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ah-mini wants the us gp at Laguna Seca. Yes I agree it would be great to see but I would prefer Road America, a circuit described as the American Spa
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1980 for me.
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1988 please, Senna was a genius
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I've been putting all the bbc urls on my webpage here:
http://www.huwselby.com/f1/f1vids.htm
although someone at the beeb has deleted the 1961 monaco page for some reason :(
Huw
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They're all races from before I was born, excellent!. I'll go with 1980, can't beat Watkins Glen!
#18 I don't see how The Glen has been neutered particularly, at least not in the same way that the Osterreichring, Kyalami or Hockenheim were. Ok the run-offs are maybe a bit bigger, but the layout is exactly the same, apart from the double chicane before the old turn 5. Indycars race there, so you'd hope it isn't too far off acceptable F1 standards.
Laguna Seca's too short for F1, and they've tampered with the approach to the Corkscrew for MotoGP's sake, so it's not as challenging anymore.
Besides, as someone mentioned in another blog, nobody really watches single-seater road racing the USA now anyway, which is why 1. Laguna Seca, Elkhart Lake etc fell off the Champ Car calendar and 2. there's loads of street races, taking the racing to the people.
Anyway back to the classic races, the only classic title finales we haven't seen this year that are 1996, (surely a Brit winning the title fits in perfectly with this year?)1997 and 1998. 1999 was a bit of a let down. Really Hakkinen should have won it after Malaysia when Ferrari were disqualified , and then mysteriously re-instated (first in a long line of decisions going their way...) 2003 wasn't bad either, with Schumacher knicking the single point he needed for the title, as mentioned by Ross Brawn in Brazil (I was praying for something to go wrong for MS that year!)
Finally (at last) over the winter can we see F1 stars racing in other forms of Motorsport from the BBC archive, i.e Mansell in touing cars (1993 and 1998), Schumacher and Hakkinen in F3 at Macau, Brundle and Senna in F3, maybe even some F3000 from Birmingham? I think that would make a nice change to F1.
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where is australia 1994?
hill vs schumacher?
or has the beeb used up its quota of controversy this week!
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1980 Watkins Glen please! It is only a glimmer of a memory but it is the first world championship I have any recollection of.
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@carlos_who: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7960155.stm
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1988 is simply one of the greatest endings to a F1 race of all time, just clinching over the 1981's grueling race and 1984's dramatic second for Lauda, so it gets my vote for sure.
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I would also like to see the Watkins Glen 1980 too please. It's a bit before my time but it sounds intriguing none-the-less.
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Good article and some good comments from others.
1) 1980
2) 1981
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Well, again, I feel this is a fantastic choice. Thanks for the good work (not just for Classic GP).
This time I'll go for ...
... 84 (though it really could have been any of them) I will be happy with the one that is chosen. All are either classic races, or classic tracks.
Thanks again and hope for the possibility of more, mmaybe from countries that do not have races. For options, during the off season.
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1981 for me, I was too young to remember those races (although I did watch them with my dad) sounds crazy and would love to see it.
I can't believe that there hasn't been more people wanting Brazil 2007, that has to go down as a great title decider.....
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I change my mind! I was elated when I saw Suzuka '88 as much as I love US motorsport it would be stupid of me to miss out F1 at the Glen!
Glen and Kyalami(original config) are old brutal tracks that are sadly missed in today's politically correct times.
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1988 for me please!
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I hope this continues next year! It's been great :)
I'm only really intrested in F1 from 1996-present. So i'm not really fussed on which one is the main one.
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My vote will be the same as what ever #75 puts!
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It's not quite a classic, but for tension & drama, for me its got to be James Hunt at Fuji 1976
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1991 1988 1984 1980 PLEASE
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@ #54 Kíllìnghölmê_Clᥠ(aka Charlie Cheesecake)
Apologies if you were offended by my outburst. And anyone else for that matter
I am merely fed up with people asking for races which andrew has not chosen. If he hasn't chose it, then that's his decision. There's no point 'mouthing' off if he hasn't picked your favourite, that is just my opinion.
Sorry!
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I would like to see one of these five races:
1.1989
2.1990
3.1991
4.1997
5.2008
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Surprised the Adelaide decider in 1994 wasn't included although it may have been included in the Aussie GP selection in March (my memory doesn't stretch that far). Good choice and out the five, 1984 would be my pic, great choice BBC (other than perhaps that one in 1994) but still a good choice all round.
@ Brawn14 (comment 78)
He's already mentioned why 1997 wasn't included and 2008 was in the Brazilian GP selection (2008 imo wasn't as good as the other five races anyway)
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Interesting selection here. When I was going over what races could be included I was thinking of 2007, 1999, 1998, 1997 (which would of been shown but ITV ruined that), 1996, and maybe 1990. But I am glad to see races here that I have never seen. Amazingly, I haven't seen any so I'm in for a real treat next week. Based upon what was said in the main article, I would like to see 1984. It seemed to be a great drive from Lauda.
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Just love to see Watkins Glen, it's before my time. 1980 please.
Second choice would be 81. Love to see Las Vegas too.
88 would actually be my last choice of the 5 - as good a race as it was, I've seen re-runs of it plenty of times. Plus everything you need to see of that race is on the year-end video and will presumably be on short highlights.
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@Fabbyulous (Post #79):
1994 Australian GP was indeed shown in March for the Australian GP as was another title decider in 1986.
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1980 please. Be nice to the Glen.
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1984, I think! Half a point at the end of it! F1 doesn't come much closer than that!
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Thanks Toybota :D
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1983, if only because I've seen the others.
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brazil 2008 has to be the most dramatic to watch the change in emotions between the ferrari and mclaren garages. it was the best i have seen so far which included so much drama on and off the track.
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1980 Watkins Glen please :)
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I think I said I would have like 1988 for Japan so I have to vote for it here...
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www.f1crazy.moonfruit.com!
I vote for what ever #91 puts.
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I DIDNT REALISE HOW CLOSE PROST WAS TO WINNING AT LEAST ANOTHER 2 WORLD TITLES. HE AT LEAST DSEREVED TO WIN 5 IN ALL IF IT WASNT FOR THAT STUPID RULE ABOUT NUMBER OF RACE WINS OR SOMETHING HE WOULD HAVE BEATEN SENNA IN ONE OF THE YEARS, ALTHOUGH I CANT REMEMBER WHETHER IT WAS IN 88 OR 90.A GREAT DRIVER AND I THINK DEFINATELY IN THE TOP 3 OF ALL TIME.
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#90
Genius!
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1980 is my choice, great circuit and great cars. Love that era.
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1988 from those choices.
Was wondering if a Haakinen/Schumi title was ever decided at the end of the year?
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Mr Benson, seeing that you 'claim' that the tape from ITV for Jerez 1997 has the post race interviews taped over the race, can we see it in its full glory?
If not, you arent telling us the truth.
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The most dramatic title decider i thought was 1986, but seeing as that was part of the Australian GP choices, i'll go for 1983.
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Hakkinnen vs Schumi in 1999
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1981 Las Vegas please. Second choice 1980 Watkins Glen.
As this is the last of these for this year, can I say a big thanks to Andrew for his great choices and insights into all these races.
Overall a great feature. Pity the banishing of a certain commentator from history diminished the choice of longer races somewhat, and a pity Andrew had to defend that decision even though presumably it was taken by someone else who wouldn't put his or her name to that decision (perhaps that person is no longer at the BBC, but then maybe someone still there could reverse the decision.)
Anyway, hopefully this feature will go from strength to strength next year.
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I'm gonna vote for 1988!
I've seen bits of the 89 and 90 finale in Japan but I've never seen any footage of the 88 finale so I hope this one wins.
The 1981 GP sounds really good too, I was very tempted to go with that one but I'm gonna stick with 88.
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If it's a legal issue about not using ITV commentary from 2002-2008, then so be it. But if it's just someone at the BBC who's decided they don't want his J.Allen's voice in the coverage, it seems entirely irrational. People expected the BBC to want to move away from ITV faces when they regained F1 rights, and Allen is very much an ITV man. Allen got some well-documented abuse over the years, which confirmed he would not have been a popular choice for the BBC role. Martin and Ted were more highly regarded, and that's why they got carried over.
My point is we don't care who we hear on the highlights, and by matching pictures to 5live commentary the Beeb are making more work for themselves than is necessary. Until LH came in Allen was a decent commentator, with a great knowledge of the sport. The delivery style of that knowledge, and the bias that crept in from 2007 (to ITV coverage as a whole, apart from Brundle) were what disappointed.
On the subject of Allen, did anyone notice how the 2008 finale feature had deleted him completley? For the first time ever the Beeb used Martin's voice for that moment, (as opposed to David Croft, and cut him off precisely where Allen started speaking. I think someone at the Beeb is taking Allen's exclusion way too far. (at least the press conferences he narrated mid-season were shown though, they could have been another victim!)
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1980's at the Glen please... just on the subject of US grand prixs, I think it was 1989 Phoenix (early nomination for future consideration)with an epic battle with Alesi in the Tyrell and Senna - don't remember the whole race but the Alesi/Senna battle could fill a short highlights package on it's own! Would love to see that if you do a segment on lost grand prix tracks... back on subject, thanks for the season-long classic highlights, I'll go for 1980 please!
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fletch_tyfc
Pretty sure it was 1990...Berger stuffed it into a wall
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I Have already voted, but next year for title deciders/Brazilian GP, can we have 2006 Brazil?
Andrew, CNW0429 said about James Allen @100. Intrestingly, in the Jenson Button career video, there was ITV commentry in Germany 2004. The only places you put 5-live commentry was when James Allen was talking (e.g Button passing Schumacher Hungary 2006). Be fair - James Allen was an enthusiastic neutral guy until Hamilton came. Did anyone notice that at this year's German Grand Prix post-race press confrence, James Allen was asking the questions.
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My vote goes to 1988.
A suggestion for next year: Japan 1999 between Hakkinen and Irvine would be an excellent choice. Was the lowest scoring season in years and there was added spice going in with Ferrari's re-instatement in the race before.
Also Las Vegas 1982 wasnt a bad one looking back. Alboreto's unexpected win in the Tyrrell and one of John Watson's Mansellesque charges through the field to try and beat Rosberg.
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I would of chose Brazil '08 but we just did that! lol
I'll let other people choose, So count me out of the voting.
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1988 for me too. Interesting how they're all from the 80s
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I'll go for 1988, any opportunity to see Senna in that car.
Watkins Glen comes a close second, and I'll add my thanks to the Beeb, Andrew and presumably his team of editing gnomes for all the lovely classic races this season. An excellent feature that I hope can return next season.
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Hakkinnen vs Schumi in 1999
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@ 97, Hakkinen fought Irvine for the championship that Year, not Schumi (Michael broke his leg at Silverstone) Hakkinen fought Schumacher for the Championship in 98 and 2000
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Being new to the F1 scene, I would have to say the Championship decider last season
eg Hamilton Vs Massa
The drama of the waiting rain, Hamilton losing it and then Timo Glock timing his tactics wrong and Hamilton taking him to win the World Title out of the grasp of Felipe Massa, not much better than that :)
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1981 sounds good to me. BTw, might be able to find the 1997 highlights on tape... ;-)
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1988 hands down. Senna at his best. when he dropped back in the field down to 14th even his most srdent fans would have doubted whether he coulsd catch and pass Prost who took the lead. It was two of the greatest drivers ever battling it out for the title but Senna was the master that day.
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1980 for me, it's great to see famous old drivers and venues from way back. Poor effort by ITV with the tape! But not surprising - I remember the title was decided one year during an ad break (Hakkinen I think)...
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I have already voted.
Personally, I don't care about extended highlights because I like GPs from the 2000's. For next year's title deciders, what about these:
1995 Australia
2003 Japan
2006 Brazil
2008 Brazil
2009 Brazil
Alot of Brazilian GP's then!
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1988 Suzuka yo!
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Why did Reutemann change his car from the one he qualified on pole with?
Voting #1 for '88.
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Its got to be 1980 for me. Sounds great!
Cheers
Lordwoz
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1980
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1998 canadian GP, please. I like the two big crashes at the start and re-start.
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Somebody earlier made a point about 'lost' grands prix. That might be a great idea for a post-season highlights package. How about the Beeb in conjunction with posters here determine the five best grands prix that we no longer see? I'm thinking along the lines of Dutch, Portugese, Argentine, Austria, Mexico...
Come to think of it, one or two from no-longer used venues have already been shown, haven't they..? Any others out there that people may choose to see?
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Great final choice Andrew.
All of them will be great to see again.
At the risk of sounding greedy, how's this for an idea? As this is the final time this year that we will get a classic F1 fix and all of the choices are from the BBC archive, why don't we have full highlights for all of the choices - no editing required!
Certainly on digital cable, the loop of classic f1 goes on for between 24 and 48 hours, so even if all are shown in their entirety (roughly 2 hrs 30 mins in total), you will still get to see them all a number of times. The short highlights, if already cut, for all can be put on this web-site for people who prefer that.
How about it, just this once?
Failing that, can we have two complete programmes like we did for the Singapore edition please?
Looking forward to the reaction for this one and more of the same next year. Keep up the good work.
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I would love to see 1980 US grand prix as it was before my time. Sounds like an exciting race with Alan Jones fighting his way from 14th place to win the race.
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All from the 80s, interesting. Out of that bunch, I'll go for Portugal '84. From a historical perspective Lauda vs Prost has always sounded tasty.
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Tough choice. Being born in 1990, and only getting into F1 in 1996, (for obvious reasons) I never saw the legend that was Ayrton Senna. Everyone seems to acknowledge that he was one of the best (possibly the greatest ever) drivers in the history of Formula One. Therefore, my vote goes to 1988, just to see such a great drive. Plus, Senna is famous for not only his great ability behind the wheel, but his fierce rivalry with Alan Prost. So I vote for 1988 (the 1981 Vegas Grand Prix sounds interesting though).
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1988 please. No contest.
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I can't believe you have not included Australia 1986.
Going into the final race the title could be won by either Prost, Piquet, or Mansell.
With 19 laps to go Mansell in second place behind Piquet had the title in his grasp but a spectacular tyre failure meant that his hopes disappeared in a shower of sparks.
This elevated Piquet to champion elect, but Williams decided that Piquet should come in from a precautionary tyre change to avoid a similar tyre failure that had also seen early leader Keke Rosberg retire. To the dismay of the team Piquet's old tyres were still in good condition, and the unnecessary stop had ultimately cost Piquet being a four time world champion.
Piquet came out of the pits in 15 seconds behind the leader Prost who now had the Championship lead. Piquet chased Prost relentlessly but when the chequered flag came down Prost crossed the line 4 seconds infront of Piquet to win the title. Prost's car ran out of fuel on the victory lap.
A truely unforgetable race for those of us who stayed up all night to watch it.
Piquet had been brought to the team with Honda money. Honda were dismayed that Williams had allowed Piquet and Mansell to fight tooth and nail during the season, and that had Williams been "more professional" their man Piquet would have undoubtedly won the title.
Despite winning the title next year, both Honda and Piquet left Williams, and without a major engine supplier Williams had a period in the doldrums.
A stunning race and one that had consequences for all the major players involved. It was the last time before 2007 that three drivers went into the last race with a chance to win the title.
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foghorn68: I agree, Road America would make for an even better USGP. However, unlike Laguna Seca, it would never pass FIA safety requirements (check out Kathryn Legge's crash there, something I doubt would have been survivable at F1 speeds). Being a longer track the cost of upgrading it would be prohibitive for the organisers.
Oh yeah, forgot the point of this blog entry. 1980 please!
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Watkins Glen please, just to see this great circuit again!
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Aaaahh Andrew,
If you had only asked, I could have sent you my VHS copy of Jerez '97...
;)
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1980 PLEASE! Heard so much about that track and would love to see it, especially reading the little race report.
Cheers!
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1981 please - would be nice to see the race in the car-park again - lol
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Take me back to Fuji 1976. Hunt clinched the title in appalling conditions when drivers WERE drivers, out on their own when courage, determination and skill won races and they had personalities not puppets in Ecclestone's playstation game.
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I'm glad you've chosen so many races from the same period, so people won't vote for one purely because it was before their time and interesting to see the "old days". Admittedly I'm guilty of that, it's great to reminisce over the 80s and 90s and to see the 70s for the first time).
My vote is for 1981 because it sounds like an interesting layout(!) and I'd love to see how it worked, and also the race sounds exciting too.
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I'll plump for 1980 out of that lot, please.
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People really need to read what others have said, and realise that races like Canada 1998 wouldn't be in this choice as it's about title deciders, and races like Brazil 08, Australia 86, 94, Japan 76 etc, have already been shown this season for previous races, so aren't going to be chosen for this.
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I'm probably biased (for me Senna is god), but it has to be 1988, please. I'm surprised 1989 wasn't in amongst the options - too contraversial for the BBC? Was Senna unfairly disqualified for cutting the chicane that Prost forced him into? Was Ballestre guilty of arranging Prost winning the championship? (he blocked the pole position switch to the 'clean' side of the track after Senna had agreed it with track officials then claimed pole, and then demanded Senna be disqualified after Prost turned in early (camera angle above shows this beautifully). A great season of classic GP's btw - thanks guys.
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daddy_apple, 1989 isn't an option because it was used for the classic Japanese GP vote
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Off topic...when the BBC start broadcasting HD Freeview channels later this year..or next year..IF F1 ever gets around to HD races...whill they be on freeview?
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As the reason that I became habitually addicted as 12 year old to F1 and a devout McLaren fan; I have to choose the fantastic finale of 1984 as the first choice- a truly fitting edge of seat ending to a masterfully dominant season.
My GP viewing that I can recall started in 1982 so I'd have to go for 1980 and 1081 for the next options to see if they jog any dim and distant memories
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1981 even!
watching Willam(s) the conqueror would be an entertaining thought though
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Gotta be The Glen
Show those pantwetters there was life before they were born, let alone aware of F1.
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1980 please
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It must be 1980
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Senna's 1988 drive was impressive, I can't argue there but no car could hold a candle to McLaren in 1988 and Prost's car didn't have its full compliment of gears that Suzuka day so while it did look spectacular at the time, it wasn't that amazing. The 1989 duel at Suzuka was a far better race but was a shame to end the way it did. The two best finales I have seen would have to be the ones where there were three drivers still in contention for the title - 1986 and 2007. I know an Englishman lost out both times here so I understand it may not be so popular on a BBC site but they were thrilling scenarios. For me though it would have to be 1986, the race itself was edge of your seat nail biting stuff to the very last lap. Having said that so was 2008, that was a belter too.
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Nice selection Andrew.
Just some suggestions for the future:
1989
1990
1994
1995
2007
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I'll take 1988 please. Epic drive from Senna
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I'm with #134 on this one...
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1980 at the Glen for me please, purely to see the Track.
Another title decider to consider for next time is:
1998 - Suzuka - Schuey and Hakkinen on the Front row of the Grid. Schuey stalls it and forces a restart in which he must start from the back of the grid, leaving the front row for Hakkinen. What followed were 12 laps or so where Schumacher absolutely drove the wheels of the Ferrari and only slowed up when he caught Hill up in the Jordan in about 5th place who made sure he kept him behind, probably as he felt bitter about having his title chances broken in 1994 in Adelaide (a fact remarked on by Brundle in commentary). If i remember Schuey was released when Hill pitted and eventually worked his way up to 3rd with only Hakkinen and Irvine ahead, then he got a puncture and the rest is history. I still remember watching those first few laps at about 4am and starting to belive he could maybe come from the back of the grid to the front in a car that was equal to and not better than the McLaren. Murray and Martin are commentating so no need to mess with the commentary and you've no need to edit the first 10 laps as its all action. Cheers
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i think 2007 was the best finale ! it had everything ! i know its brazil but it wasnt shown last tim!
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Agree with the general posts about people choosing races that have already been shown. Also, what's with the interest in 1990?
Admittedly it's got one of the most renowned starts ever to a grand prix, but the rest of the race was actually really rubbish with all the fastest cars retiring and the slower ones just moving up the order because of this.
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i would like 08 brazil lewis hamilton is the best driver in the paddock
i know bbc did not have rights as itv had f1 but cant you do a 10 minute highlights
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I wanna see Jonesy. 1980 please!
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lewishamiltonforever, it was used at the last race for the classic brazil gp selection, it's not going to be used for this as well.
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I'd go for 1988, as it was a fine drive from Senna.
Andrew, can I ask if it's possible to put ALL the choices from ALL 17 races on a special Classic Grands Prix programme at the end of the season on the red button? I ask because The classic races run for about 6 hours on one day of the week, so perhaps we could have them all played back to us at the end of this year?
Or maybe the ones that were chosen this year could be played again next year, along with all our new choices? We all really appreciate the Classic Grand Prix series, and most of us would probably buy the whole set on DVD if we could!! Failing that, could you show us all of them on the red button again? Either at the end of this year, or next year???
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Although I am a big fan of lauda and senna my choice has ro be 1980 at the glen cant miss this oppertunity.
I think the coverage this season has been a breath of fresh air great to see f1 on the beeb again. Keep up the good work.
Thanks all for this blog and the chance to see CLASSIC gp's they've all been great. Would like to see more during the off season PLEEEEEASE
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1980 please
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1980 Watkins Glen please.
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Watkins Glen please.
It's nice seeing the older races from before I was born; a good look at some great circuits that for various reasons have fallen off the calendar, and also seeing more of the mastery of some drivers whom I knew only by legend, such as G Villeneuve. :)
Seen Senna & Prost too many times though, so voting for an unfamiliar track this time :)
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Andrew,
May I request that you show this year's race highlights again in the close season please? Especially Australia as it predates my having digital so I wasn't able to record the highlights of this most entertaining race.
Numerous people have suggested good races at venues no longer on the calendar. Sweden should be good value at it traditionally had unpredictable winners. Also, is there any footage available of Pescara '57 (Moss's greatest race?).
And remember Andrew, season finales from '58 and '64 next year please! English winners both...
Cheers, thanks for a good year (or should that be a bridge stone ?!)
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1980 please!!!
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There's 19 weeks between the end of this season and the start of the 2010 season, that's a long time for all us hardcore formula one fans, so I really hope that the BBC will consider carrying on showing classic F1 Races over the winter, in fact you could hold a vote to pick a classic F1 season, and then play one of the races each week that makes up that season. Now that would be great! What does everyone else think?
That's a tough call picking you favourite F1 season, maybe 1991 would be my choice, great battle between Senna & Mansell.
By the way I would thank you all for the excellent job you've done this year, keep up the good work.
Please do consider, 'Pick Your Classic F1 Season' for the long winter months!
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Very very tough choice! I think I will go for 1988!
Sad we have come to the end of the season, I have had an absolute ball watching some of the old races, so a very big thank you to you Andrew and your team for doing it all, and look forward to it returning next year! And my goodness, if there was an opportunity to do what a couple of previous posters have said and repeat all of this years choices at some point during the winter, that would just be brilliant!,
Ben
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It has to be 1980
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How come you haven't considered Fuji in 1976 when James Hunt won the World Championship by finishing 3rd. admitedly most of the race was run in the wet and difficult to see but this was a nail biting race of its time and worth inclusion in your list,
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1980 please!
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richjbradley, Fuji '76 was offered for the Japanese GP, but inexplicably didn't garner enough votes.
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just like to say great year of classic f1 what are you doing next year cant wait. my vote just to remid you is for 2008
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Hi there, the link to the Classic races is broken. I keep getting Error 404: Page not found
Please fix it.
Thanks
Warren
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160. At 4:28pm on 27 Oct 2009, the3douches wrote:
There's 19 weeks between the end of this season and the start of the 2010 season, that's a long time for all us hardcore formula one fans, so I really hope that the BBC will consider carrying on showing classic F1 Races over the winter, in fact you could hold a vote to pick a classic F1 season, and then play one of the races each week that makes up that season. Now that would be great! What does everyone else think?
That's a tough call picking you favourite F1 season, maybe 1991 would be my choice, great battle between Senna & Mansell.
By the way I would thank you all for the excellent job you've done this year, keep up the good work.
Please do consider, 'Pick Your Classic F1 Season' for the long winter months!
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I'm going to second this. Its a great idea.
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