Pick your classic German Grand Prix
The German Grand Prix is at the Nurburgring this year for the first time since 1985 but it is the Hockenheim track that features in four of the five choices for the latest edition of our classic races series.
Hockenheim has hosted all the German Grands Prix but one since it took over from the Nurburgring following Niki Lauda's fiery crash in 1976.
This year, though, is supposed to be the first in an arrangement whereby the two tracks alternate as hosts, although whether that actually happens is up in the air because of the doubts surrounding the future of Hockenheim.
If Hockenheim does drop off the calendar, its absence will be largely unlamented. In its new format, it is a flat and largely featureless autodrome near Heidelberg in the Rhine valley with a reputation for dreary races - one of the drivers told me recently that the place should be "levelled with a bulldozer" - but there have been some great races there, and we have chosen those in 1982, 1991, 2000 and 2008.
Our one choice from the Nurburgring dates back to 1961, when Stirling Moss, then racing a Lotus, put in one of his greatest drives to beat the faster 'shark-nose' Ferraris of the eventual world champion Phil Hill and Wolfgang von Trips.
Now, before all those of you who are F1 experts say it, yes, I know there are a number of classic German Grands Prix at the Nurburgring not on that list.
Chief among them is probably 1957, when the legendary Argentine Juan Manuel Fangio chased down the Ferraris of Mike Hawthorn and Peter Collins, breaking the lap record nine times, to take his final and probably best ever win.
But there was also 1968, when Jackie Stewart won by four minutes in the wet, and 1976, when Lauda's crash made everyone finally realise that the Austrian - and Stewart before him - had been right when they said that the majestic 14-mile Nordschleife had become too dangerous for F1.
(A new version of the circuit, built next door to the old track, hosted its first F1 race in 1984 and has been a regular feature on the calendar since, usually under the title European Grand Prix).
Unfortunately, the BBC archive is not what it might be, and we have been unable to source enough material for these races to put together a suitable highlights package.
Hopefully, though, these others from Hockenheim will make up for it.
So we have the famous incident in 1982 when backmarker Eliseo Salazar took out race leader Nelson Piquet, prompting the Brazilian to launch a physical assault on the unfortunate Chilean (or Colombian, as Murray Walker says in the commentary...) that made Piquet look like, as one journalist put it at the time, a "demented marionette".
That race also featured a cathartic victory for Ferrari courtesy of Patrick Tambay, following Didier Pironi's horrific, career-ending crash in practice.
Then there is 1991, an unremarkable dominant victory for Nigel Mansell which stands out chiefly because it marked one of the many bad-tempered battles between Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost, and some typically entertaining mud-slinging between the two afterwards.
For both of these races, we have the full Grand Prix highlights programme from the time to show if they emerge as the chosen race.
From more recent years, we have Rubens Barrichello's remarkable maiden victory in 2000 - a quite brilliant drive from 18th on the grid in a race that featured a track invader, two safety car interventions and a decisive late rain shower.
Finally, there is Lewis Hamilton's victory last year, in which he drove superbly to erase a strategy error by his McLaren team, who failed to pit him during a safety car period, forcing him to drive the closing stages of the race right on the edge when he should have been cruising to a comfortable win.
So, let us know which race you would like to see highlighted. And, for those of you wondering about classic events from more recent races at the Nurburgring, those will feature ahead of this year's European Grand Prix - which from last year has a new home in Valencia.
The love affair has blown hot and cold, but Formula One has had me in its spell for most of my life. After 16 years covering the sport, in which I have reported from more than 100 Grands Prix, I am as thrilled by its heights, fascinated by its complexities and exasperated by its idiosyncrasies as ever. I hope there will be plenty of all of them to share with you now F1 is back on the BBC. You can also follow me on
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~01~RS~)
Comments
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My vote would be for 2000. 2008 was a great drive for the victory but there's nothing like coming through the field, and Ruben's first win adds that special touch.
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My vote is for 1991, seeing as we get full highlights for it. Otherwise I would have voted 1961.
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I vote for '82 with the '61 race second. Again, like every other time, I vote for them 'cause I've seen all the others so many times before...
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I'd vote 2008.
The cars all going off a turn one was an epic F1 moment. The whole race was just full of drama.
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2008 though very recent was excellent - seeing Lewis spin off only to be put back on the track was good work by him although I think he blew it when he overtook the field and changed for inters on the way, I think that is how it went.
The safety car on that day had to slow down for the F1 cars and also did well to get out of the way of a sliding car, then the race was stopped for a short time, great fun for the viewer, exciting and scary for the drivers I'm sure.
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#5 - Actually confused 2008 with the 2007 race at the Nürburgring! My memory!
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Shame we can't see some of the old but... it simply has to be 2000 which get's my vote. It was without doubt a classic race and it had everything!
Stuart
- http://www.formula1-blog.co.uk
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Alright 1991, but can I please suggest 1986 next year. Lots of leaders and then lots of misfortune on the last lap.
gingerboy99 - I suggest you rethink your vote because you are talking about the European Grand Prix of 2007.
You know what would have made Hockenheim 2008 a more impressive win, is if anybody who leapfrogged Hamilton had ACTUALLY DEFENDED their positions. Nobody at all covered the inside.. "After you sir".
Personally, I think Montoya's hugely dominant win in 2003 was more impressive.
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Hey Andrew, big request of mine -
For the European GP round, PLEASE include 1985 Brands Hatch as an option.
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It's got to be the 2000 race for me. Barrichello's joy on the top step after was something to behold, a sporting story not many others can repeat.
ps. the race wasn't half bad either!
Thanks Andrew, great work!
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Im going for 1991 so we get a full highlights programme....82 will be my second choice simply because im too young to remember it and id like to see it!!!!
2000 will be third choice
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I love the 2000 race - one of the best races of recent times and one of the best results. It was a really great result for the championship at that time also as it meant that Schumacher and the two McLaren drivers were separated by a handful of points at the top of the drivers championship.
But I have that race on video so I shall be self-serving vote for 1982, 1991 second
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2000. Easy.
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Ive never seen 1982, other than the Piquet boxing bit, so i'll go for that, with 1991 2nd choice, because I've never seen that either. 2000 is one of my favourite races ever, so much going on!
I don't entirely agree with your comment that the new Hockenheim has a reputation for dreary races; it's become one of better circuits for offering overtaking, and you get some great duals on the drag from the hairpin to the following complex.
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Easily 2000. A classic end with half the track wet and the gaps between positions yo-yoing madly for the last few laps. Everyone remembers RB starting from 18th for a famous win but fewer people seem to remember JB starting from the pitlane to finish a well deserved 4th!
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2008 forever and a day!
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Again people picking up the newest race, which they probably recorded on dvd. And they mistake 2008 with 2007 which is even worse.
My vote goes obviously for 1961 race. I've never seen it and am keen to see.
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For full highlights, I'd vote for 1991 and 1982. A certain other tv channel had the highlights for 2000, so I guess that'll only be he short variety, even if it was Murray and Martin commentating.
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Hi Andrew
1st vote: 1961
2nd vote: 1982
Anything in the last 10 years has been shown so many times. Are the BBC archives really that bad? what about Jackie Stewart's storming win in 1973 where he and his team mate Cervert left the rest of the field for dead, although i have the full race without commentary now in digital format, want to borrow it ;-) It seems that late 60's and 70's have better availability on youtube. pre Bernie i suppose so he hasn't got the rights and cant force them to remove, greedy man!
Hopefully you can find some races from the 60's & 70's later in the season. I dearly wish i could find a complete copy of the 1982 Austrian GP race won by Elio de Angelis for Lotus in that gorgeous black & gold car, now that was an exciting finish, totally edge of your seat stuff!
Your doing a great job so far i think you deserve more appreciation for your efforts to show us some of the classic races where the drivers had manual gearboxes, no radio, no telemetry in fact mainly driving with talent and a good car!
Keep it up, and I for one applaud you enthusiastically.
Spiffing job old chap!
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2000 for me definitely please!
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Classic German GP's not noted... How about '94? Half the field eliminated by Hakkinen, Verstappen catches fire, Schumi breaks down, Berger ends Ferrari's longest ever losing streak...
That was a real classic!
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People, stop voting 2008! It wasn't that good, except for a little battle towards the end by Hamilton to get 1st.
2007 was the wet race and is classified as THE EUROPEAN Grand Prix (now Valencia) - you can vote for the 2007 Nurburgring race when we get to Valencia.
So, my vote goes to 2000.
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1982 please. Oooh, take that!
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Would like to see full highlights of 1991, but my heart goes with Barrichello's victory in 2000. I don't think I've witnessed a more emotional victory and podium celebration since that day.
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1961 please
Nice to bring back some nostalgia and memories but again another dubious selection from the BBC archives. I would love to see full highlights of the 1981 German GP where Nelson Piquet had an epic battle with Alan Jones.
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91 pleease.
Oh I would also like to see 84 Dallas for the Singapore round. PLease consider.
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A little late now possibly, but for next year i'd like to see 1997 included - Gerhard Berger's final race win, and quite poignant as he won it soon after his father had died. It also features the emergence of Jordan, Mika Hakkinen and Jarno Trulli as contenders for podiums / race wins. For extended highlights i'd like the '82 race - always fun to see Piquet's girly kicking !!
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Now normally, i'd vote for the choices from the 80's so we get to see the full 30min BBC highlights package, but in this case i won't.
My main consideration is that we see highlights of the brilliant 'old' Hockenheim track before it became the absolute joke that it is today. What makes it worse is that the old track isn't there anymore. They were forced to take the tarmac up as part of a condition for building the new version. Still, at least a couple of hundred thousand fans now get to see the full track, whilst the millions who've always watched at home have to watch a yawn-a-thon of a race as drivers negotiate what is basically a Go_Cart Track courtsey of Mr Tilke. (Thanks for ordering that one Bernie. Anywhere else you want to rip the soul out of?)
If memory serves when the new track was first raced on a few years ago, only Heidfield and Villeneuve had the bottle to say in the press conference that the new track was rubbish and doesn't compare to the old one.
Rant over.
My Vote - 2000 - A Great drive from Rubens from the back of the grid, a bit of rain and an emotiional podium celebration. Good on him for winning when this place was a man's circuit.
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1982 with 1991 as my second vote. Come on people, we want to see a full BBC Grand Prix programme :P
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Would have to go 2000 here, but 3 others stick in the memory.
Firstly 1996 and 1997 for Gerhard Berger leading and retiring with 4 laps to go in 1996 and then winning in 1997 following the death of his father. Also 1997 for a brilliant fight between Fisichella and Berger until Fisichella got a puncture. He looked like such a hot prospect back then!
Also 1999 sticks in the mind. It was what (I think) was Mika Salo's first race for Ferrari and he should have won before some typical Ferrari team orders which let Irvine win.
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It has to be 2008. It really sums up the championship battle of Massa and Hamilton last year. They both raced excellently but Lewis pipped him in the end. (Put's on flame suit).
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I'd like to echo the above thoughts on 1997 - it's a shame that it is not in your selection as it featured a great battle between the old master Berger and the young pretender Fisichella, which was decided on the track in Bergers favour before Fisi suffered a puncture. I also remember Frentzen/Irvine getting too cosy at the first corner, and Villeneuve spinning out at one of the chicanes. Hope it's on the selection for next year..
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2008 is my pick
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2nd Vote is still 2008
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2000 please - but make sure we see as much as possible of Rubens on the podium! :-)
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1991 please! Second vote is 2000.
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My vote is 2000 with '61 a close second. Great race
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If full highlights from 61 or 2000 are available then i will go for either of those. If not, then
1. 1982
2. 1991
3. 1961
4. 2000
5. 2008
Stop picking recent races, this will become a shambles if it continues the way it is. Also get the archives into some order, then stick them on the web.
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2000 or 1991 for me. Who cares if people have seen them before? They were still great races to watch. In my opinion nothing really happened in 2008 until Glock crashed and then Massa and Piquet caved in the second Hamilton got even slightly close to them. It wasn't a great win, he was just lucky he came across 2 drivers who at the time couldn't seem to defend properly!
Besides, you don't get better than seeing Barrichello's emotion and popular first win.
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Firstly I'd like to thank Andrew and team for the work they are doing to provide us with these classic gps on the website and red button - it really is fantastic. The selection of German races is pretty fair although clearly had footage of some of the older Nurburgring races existed, particularly '57 and '68, it might have been too much for some of us...
I can understand the bias of footage from races at Hockenheim and for the criticism of the current track. I personally won't be sorry to see the back of the place as it will always have the sad memories of claiming the life of the greatest driver of them all, the Quiet Champion, in that tragic F2 accident in 1968.
In relation to this Classic GP vote, I would echo some of the guys sentiments in preferring to see some of the older races as, exciting as some of the races in the last few seasons have been, we have all seen them recently. The 1982 race wins it for me not just for the Piquet handbags at three paces but as it was an emotional win for the gentleman racer Patrick Tambay after a terrible season for Ferrari. 1991 would get second for me and I'm looking forward to the short highlights of 1961 as Moss sticks another one over on the sharknose Ferraris - just like at Monaco!
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TopVillain,
I completely disagree, Hamilton drove a stormer, and Piquet did give him the place, but only because he knew Hamilton would get past eventually and didn't want to ruin the prospect of 2nd, if he had tried to defend then Massa may have caught up too...
I vote for 1961 and secondly 2000, purely for Murray's reaction to the track invader ("Where's mister half-wit?") classic...
THanks Andrew.
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Maybe an idea for next year, have 2 votes, one on the older races with extended highlights from the BBC and a vote for 'modern' races post 1997. That way it prevents people voting for older races on purpose simply to get extended highlights as i have done!!!
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1982 please.
I'm sure most people have seen the Piquet/Salazar "fight", but what I vividly remember is this was the first race when Brabham wanted to try re-fuelling, so Piquet needed to keep pushing on to build the gap, hence the impatience to get past Salazar.
It's a pity we don't have Austria still on the calendar as Patrese in the other Brabham had a spectacular off trying to build his gap in that race (the race after Hockenheim) allowing the de Angelis/Rosberg battle someone else mentioned earlier.
PS Great job Andrew and the team to bring us these, one of the best bits of the BBC F1 effort.
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1991 please, the battle between Senna and Prost was brilliant! Failing this 1982 please.
Remember to vote for only races between 1978 and 1996 as these are where full highlights are available. 1961 will be short highlights just as for Monaco.
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Why are people wasting their vote on 2000 and 2008?! I'd love to see the 2000 race, but you can see longer highlights on You Tube then will be made available if it wins this feature. If it looses, virtually the same length highlights will be shown by the Beeb anyway.
So, I'm voting for '91, followed by '82, mainly because the best thing about this feature is that we have the opportunity to see full highlight shows in broadcast quality.
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2000 manic
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Good idea about putting the classic Nurburgring races on for Valencia :D I could name so many.
I'm in two minds over which race to go for. Everyone one you have suggested are pretty magical and i'm sure you could have named alot more - the old Hock was so great.
I'd go for 1982, a Chaotic weekend and a race that did not need Piquet to react so violently, especially when the weekend had already been tainted by Peroni's serious accident earlier in the weekend.
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I'd vote for 1991 first choice, because then we get to see a brilliant BBC highlights programme. Otherwise 1982 would get my vote, out of curiosity - never having seen that race, I don't think.
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My vote goes for '82, as we'll get a short recap of 2000 anyway without the full highlight package...
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2000 or 2008 for me. Gutted that Nurburgring 2003, 05, and 07 arnt featured.
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I vote for 1982 and 1991.
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1982 first, then 1991. Would be such a shame to lose the full highlights of these.
Please can we make sure that they're available on Freeview as well as Sky? I was quite annoyed to find that the BBC would rather show the same 5 non news stories on repeat for 5 hours than the classic British GPs.
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I vote for 2000.
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1961 would be my first choice, with 1982 my second choice.
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once again the bbc fail at formula one... sorry the 2008 german gp... that was a awfull race that was static untill the one and only saftey car cause by glocks big crash. If that is your reason for picking it i dont know. The only German GP's you should have (which were at hockenhiem) should be with the OLD layout!
On another point i take it the 2007 gp at nurburg will be featured in a highlights package when we get to Valencia latter in the year?
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2000 for me, 1982 as 2nd choice
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for what its worth, 1961, then '82
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2000 one of my favourite races of all time
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2000 for me. Such drama all the way through.
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2000
even though I'd like to see 1987
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2000 was an awesome race and gets my vote, although i would like to see the highlights packages for the earlier races as well!!!
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sorry 1982
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cant believe 1991 is on it!!! I mean really! Why on earth was 1986 left out? Andrew do you realise how many times the lead changed during that race? And how about 1989? A titanic duel between Senna and Prost. 1991 was simply naff from start to end! And what about 1981? Prost and Jones. Another great race missed out in place of a mediocre one. Sorry for being grumpy....but thats just the way it is.
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I would choose 2000.... but I don't see the point of choosing 2000. The end result won't be any different will it? OK, it'd win the "vote" - but we'd still get the same amount of highlights action - we won't get anymore as the race was after 1997.
Therefore the people that voted 2000 above, well you're vote in a way is pointless as it won't make zero difference at the end to the length of the highlights.
So therefore I'm not going to choose anything - I can't vote for my preferred choice as it'd make no overall difference to the highlights that are shown.
The current system is flawed - people will always vote for races before 1997 so they can get the most of it. Voting after 1997 is effectively pointless as it will make no difference to the end result regarding the length of the highlights.
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Don't understand why they changed the Hockenhem lay out. I loved the old circuit, anyone got any ideas?
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As much as a great race and emotional moment for Rubens it was in 2000, we won;t get the full highlights show, so my vote goes to 1991 with a classic battle between Prost and Senna. My second choice vote would be for 1982 as I haven't seen this race.
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1982 is one I've really wanted to see extended highlights of ever since I bought the end of year review when I was retrospectively collecting them after getting interested in F1 in the early 90s.
Second choice would be '91.
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I like the older videos so naturally I would like to see 1961 and 1982. But 2000 was an amazing race.
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2000, hands down. 2001 was also a pretty damn good race, especially with that titanic slipstreaming duel between Rubens and DC.
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It has to be 2000. It's one of my all-time favourites. A quite phenomenal drive from Rubens and a real nail-biter for an ending.
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Gotta be 61. Pity you haven't got enough 57, but how about 58, when Brooks chased down the Ferraris much as Fangio had done the year before?
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it's got to be 2000 & 2001 in nurberg ruben's maidain victory & burti's horror crash. 2003 (in nurberg) was a good race so was 1999 (in nurberg)
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1961 out of curiosity.
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I would like to see 1982 as I never did like Piquet and I think the fight showed his true nature, The other would habe to be 1991 as any race with a fiery Mansell is worth a watch.
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what about 2005????
schumacher fighting for 3rd on his shot bridgestones, the only bridgestone runner to put up any fight at all to the michelin shod cars that year.
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1994 wasn't a bad race either! A lot happened at the start and there was a good fight for the lead until Schumacher retired, which helped Berger ease to an overdue Ferrari win, that really announced their return to strength!
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How about the BBC releasing their race highlights on DVD in season reviews. Most of the 1973-1980 BBC races shown on ESPN Classic are 30-60 mins in length. The DVDs could also include the BRDC International Trophies from Silverstone and the Race of Champions events from Brands Hatch.
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Could we maybe have some lengths of the highlights to see if they are worth a choice? Will 1961 be just 5 minutes or longer?
My vote is for 1982 and 1991 please as they are both full highlights.
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I thought it was a bit odd 1986 and 1994 were left out. I'll say 1982 just to see Piquet indulging in a bit of karate...
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Why do people vote for races after 1997 - YOU ONLY GET 5 MINUTE HIGHLIGHTS, so what's the point you may as well vote for races before 1997 and get a full highlights programme. Even if a race does not win they show 5 minutes of it anyway so you get your 5 minutes if you vote for it or not, so it pointless voting for any race after 1997, sorry to say this again but it is just maddening!!!!
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sorry i meant races after 1996!
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Ok, so my list is as so.....
1st 1961
2nd 1982
3rd 1991
Come on guys, lets vote for the older races. You know it makes sense.
Cheers Andrew
Ps, i'm surprised that 1996 and 1997 were not on here. It would have been better than having 2008 on the list.
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It has got to be 2000 for the sheer amount of overtaking...Drama...excitment and a brilliant strategy from ferrari to help barrichello to win one of the most emotional races ever, I know its only "short" highlights but it was the best race. I'm surprised that Nurburgring 1999 isn't on the list! So much action and Johny Herbert won the race for stewart!! Amazing....
So 2000....
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1982 & 1961 please, although I'd like to see 1978 & 1981 more, actually.
I'd like to see a 1978 Lotus one two & Piquet win in that strange Brabham which had to rise up from the ground after the chequered flag. The early 80s were strange.
It's great to be able to see such old classics again, but a shame we won't be able to see races which no longer exist. What about the likes of Austria 1978 & the 1979 South African races ? The crazy races in Dallas & Las Vegas were entertainingly daft, but I miss Zeltweg & Kyalami and would like to see them again .... any chance ?
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my favorite is definatly 2000, i;ve never seen anyone so happy to win a race than rubbi,
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1961 please.
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Definitely 2000.
Great race with a lot of drama. But best of all Rubens podium dance on securing his first ever victory. If the highlights are shown for 2000 they have to include the podium celebrations.
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my vote 1st 57 2nd 68-both men genius's!!
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mine would be 1982 then 91 as I have not seen 1982, and would like to see 91 again, great site and coverage by the beeb,
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I think as there only really 2 races we can vote for to get the full highlights package, and andrew has already called '91 "an unremarkable" race, my vote has to go to '82.
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I have to laugh at all the people getting confused on here. With the exception of 2007 all the Nurburgring GP's have been either European or Luxembourg Grand Prix's and are not eligible for enrty in the GERMAN race vote.
Also, Hockenhiem was shortened becauase Bernie Ecclestone thought it was boring, and used the excuse that the spectators only got to see the cars 45 times, whereas now they get to see them 70-odd. Thanks Bernie! (Sarcasm begins)Classic 200mph slipstreaming? Dull! Short straights where all the overtaking is done in the pits? Ooh yes please!(end Sarcasm)
Well done Andy, for inspiring such a massive debate this time round!
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1st 1982 2nd 1991 3rd 1961
Hope you can put the full highlights on freeview this time.
Please don't miss the chance to show full highlights from 1982 and 1991 just because so many people on the website are voting for races which will only get short edited highlights anyway.
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Of the fully televised races, Barichello in 2000 is the one for me. Not even Schumacher or Hamilton could have driven a wet race better. You have to remember that Barichello started from 18th because Ferrari had been badly caught out by the weather during qualification, not through any fault of his own. If you look at the photo accompanying Andrew Benson's article, you can see how genuinely delighted Coulthard was for Barichello's first victory. That was a really enjoyable GP to watch.
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i think that 2000 would be my first choice, as i always enjoy someone starting at the back and going on to win. Second i would have the '61 race as i have never seen it and i love the shark nose ferrari's, i would then have '82, '91 and 2008 last as i watched it last year so i can still remember it well.
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2000 please, few grand prix have caused me to mute the TV for the last few laps and close my eyes until the last second just to be sure it would actually happen. Great race, fantastic even. Must have upset a few McLaren fans though, not only did Ferrari win but the track invader was revealed to be a quote "disgruntled mercedes employee", bad weekend all round for the greys on home turf
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2000 was undoubtedly a classic and proved that modern F1 does still have overtaking in it!
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I'd vote for anything from Hockenheim pre-Tilke, i.e. pre 2000 as the Hockenheim track was better before Mr Tilke butchered it.
But preferably from the Mansell era, circa 1988-1992.
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I'd like to see 1982 or 1991 for the full highlights, though I don't know enough about either race to choose which.
I suspect though that neither of them were as good as 2000- a great race with a popular winner. Still, part of me would rather see classic races from the Nurburgring this weekend (even if they weren't German Grands Prix!)
I appreciate this feature if only because 2009 F1 is leaving me disillusioned- the cars look ugly and too much has changed, F1 feels artificial at the moment. Let's hope it improves again so there'll be many more classic grands prix in the future!
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Got to be 2000. Rubens' drive was worthy of legend and his response to finally winning was a joy to see. Few races have been more remarkable, and few victories more joyfully received by the winning driver, his competitors and the fans. A wonderful day for F1, and fitting reminder that Rubens can't be counted out!
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Andrew, once again, i am absolutley baffled how 1991 made it to the selection process. You mention the Senna/Prost incident where Prost merely outbraked himself and that was that very short and sharp. There was absolutley nothing else that was interesting about the race AT ALL!! I can give you a quick recap of beeter German GP's during the 80's early 90's.
1993 - Hill looked on course for his first victory before a last lap puncture. Senna fighting his way up though the field after spinning at the first chicane, Berger and Blundell wheel to wheel. Much better than 1991.
1989 - Extremely tense GP between Senna and Prost with nothing seperating them right to the end before reliability issues for Prost. Berger's crash. This would have been a decent choice.
1987 - Again, not the greatest GP but MUCH better than 1991, late drama for Prost gives Piquet a win.
1986 - clearly the best German GP of the 1980's and 1990's and you failed to even mention it. To remind you, Rosberg, Senna, Piquet and Prost all took turns in leading, there were many over takings for first position, lots of pitstops, last lap drama when Prost had to get out and push his car and when Rosberg had to slow. Yet for some amazing weird reason, this wasnt even an option!!! How on earth can one of the dullest German GP's i.e. 1991 get preference over this I'll never know.
I'll be interested to know why 1986 didnt make it and 1991 did.
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1973!!!
JYS from flag to flag on the proper, full 14 mile circuit, dutifully followed by Cevert, who quite obviously could have gone past and won, but didn't. Ickx in his one off drive in the third M23 McLaren, and Pace, putting a Surtees where a Surtees shouldn't be!! The sight of Stewart going around the Karasel, the camera peering into the cockpit still lives with me today. BRILLIANT!!
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I would definately have to go with 2000 on this one. Granted, my F1 memory only goes back 15 years or so, but it was such a big moment to see Rubens finally get on to the top step of the podium. Not to mention a great race with dramas around every corner.
1997 certainly deserves an honourable mention though for one of the greatest comeback drives ever. The old Austrian veteran nearing retirement, in danger of losing his seat to a younger Alex Wurz pulls out one last unlikely victory just weeks after the death of his father. Great memories.
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1st choice...1961
2nd choice...1982
2000 was an eventful race, but Barrichello won because of the track invader, not in spite of him...the two McLarens had the race in their pocket at the time of the incident which brought out a safety car and negated their advantage
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I think the one where Nelson Piquet thumped Eliseo Salazar has got to be up there. Has to be Barichello in '00. 18th to 1st, Schumi out first corner, man on track, rain no rain and then rain again. Brilliant.
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To those clever people voting for 2000.
Why are you doing it????????
Use some common sense.
You are wasting your vote because the bbc will automatically show it anyway as it is from ITV and the BBC is only allowed to show a maximum of five minutes!
Even if the 2000 race doesnt win the vote, the BBC will show five minutes anyway...so for the final time use your intellect and stop voting for races from the ITV era (from 1997 - 2008).
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I am going to vote for 2000
and the reason I'm voting for 2000 is because I was delighted to see Rubens get his first victory - such an emotional win
before I get accused of being a moron, I'm quite confident that the bbc will show at least one full length highlights show even if it doesn't come out top. In this case, I would like to see 1991 over the other one
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2000 please, cheers
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Uber2009,
Yet you still vote for it!!!!
What is the point! It will be shown in 5 minute highlights form regardless if it receives 0 votes or 1 million. By voting for a race outside of the ITV era (1997 -2008) there is a chance of seeing TWO full highlights races rather than one or worse still none.
Every race up for selection will be shown.
Any race that is between 1997 and 2007 will be given 5 minutes regardless of how many votes it receives.
So please everybody, in future, do not vote for any race that falls in the period between 1997 and 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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What is it with all these Hamilton choices? 2008 had so little excitement and was all about strategy (c'mon Piquet was on the podium for goodness sake).
2000, I'll admit to not having seen the other three (I've never found Germany as the home of f1) so 2000 gets my vote although the win there owed greatly to Mika pitting when he could've easily stayed out and walked the gp. That race was a masterstroke from Ross Brawn with Rubens starting 18th I think and also for the race where the championship turned on its head with Schumi out in turn one.
Why wasn't 2007 an option, not everyday you see a Spyker leading the pack, half a minute ahead of anyone else, is it?
2008 was as interesting as watching paint dry.
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Of the fully televised races, Barichello in 2000 is the one for me. Not even Schumacher or Hamilton could have driven a wet race better. You have to remember that Barichello started from 18th because Ferrari had been badly caught out by the weather during qualification, not through any fault of his own. If you look at the photo accompanying Andrew Benson's article, you can see how genuinely delighted Coulthard was for Barichello's first victory. That was a really enjoyable GP to watch.
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It wasn't a great wet weather race, he had a storming start, maximized his chances by passing cars with less horsepower in dry conditions, was heled more by the T Car following a spectator on the track. Got in front of Coulthard because of a mix up in the McLaren pitstops (no surprises there) and was soon up to second before the rain even started.
Behind Hakinnen he only overtook the McLaren because the McLaren strategists were expecting all the drivers to pit and so brought Mika in.
Barrichello as far as I know didn't take a soul in the wet and only had to keep his car on the track to win the race when the rain started (admittedly he had to go fast enough to stay ahead of DC.
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I'll vote for 1982 and 1961 in that order. I agree with Senna27 about 1986, but maybe that'll be in next year's choice when the archive is in better shape. Also agree with Bennus about 1994.
By the way, Piquet and Salazar were actually really good friends before the incident, though history doesn't record whether the two of them made up over a beer afterwards! I'll be interested to see how they present Pironi's crash too. Tambay's win was a good tonic.
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I vote for the following 2
1982: That fight between Piquet and Salazar is funny and it would be great to see it in its entirity, plus it would be great to see how the rest of the race panned out
2000: That was an awesome race, action galore and Barrichello coming through to win from 18th on the grid, a lesson in how to drive in wet conditions on dry tyres.
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'61 of course.
I've no doubt the kiddies will vote for stuff they've already seen though.
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I would agree with previous posts that there are some noteable absentees from the list. Indeed Senna27 - Post #100 listed 4 very good alternatives to 1991. I would not put 2008 in the classic bracket either. In a later post #105 by Senna27 there is critisism of people who are voting for the 2000 race because the full length footage is already available elsewhere. That may be the case however of the five Grand Prix lisetd here, for me the 2000 race is by far the best I have seen (1961 was before my time). The title of this particular web page is "Pick your classic German Grand Prix" and so of the five available 2000 would be my first choice. From a curiosity point of view I would love to see some footage of the 1961 race.
The voting in this feature is always going to be influneced by the issue of coverage rights and the availabilty of footage from the BBC archive. Andrew, may I suggest that you actually hold two votes. The first as a free vote for everyone to nominate their favourite classic grand prix. This would allow us to form a concencus on truly classic races. This may appease people who feel that true classics are not being voted for, either because they are not on the list as was the case with Monaco 1984, or due to the availablity of coverage as seems to be the case with this race.
The second vote could be as it now, with the winner of five prior selected races to be shown as full highlights. This would please the people who want to see older editions of the BBC's Grand Prix programe as you could include more races just from that era.
Any thoughts?
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61, then 82...
... to Tombstone 7, I'm not a kid, just appreciate good history (and a great circuit).
In addition to Senna27, I understand you're point, just hope you don't mid me putting 61 forward, just to see the great Nurburgring.
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OK PEOPLE
A number of points about the above comments;
ONE - how very sad it is to see such ridiculous people saying "do not vote for the recent ones" - why the hell not? This borders on insanity, as 2008 was an absolutely brilliant race and fully deserves to be in this list. Infact, the second half was so exciting that I would say that 2008 is my favourite.
TWO - everyone is entitled to their own opinion, people are bright enough to make their own choice
2008 people - the recent races are no less exciting than the older ones...people need to get a grip.
Case closed.
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It has to be 1982 followed by 1991 - if only for hearing Murray's dulcit tones on the commentary (together with the fantasrtically lugubrious james Hunt). The 80,s and 90's are 'classics' for me as I was age 8-20 over the 2 decades - I grew up cheering Mansell!!!
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68' Jackie Stewart , although not old enough to be alive when he drove, but I still bore people with the facts after seeing the footage, absolute awesome drive, his first time at the track and in the rain if im right aswell.
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I'll go with 1982 as my 1st choice and 1991 my 2nd, purely because of the full highlights and I've never seen the 1982 race, except for the mentioned clip of Piquet and Salazar.
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ok the BBC archives are not what they could be - but wasn't there footage kept by an oil company who might be encouraged to contribute?
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BP and Castrol
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The BBC are offering us the chance to watch highlights of 1961, 1982, 1991, 2000 and 2008.
For 1982 and 1991, the BBC has a full highlights program i.e. arround 30 mins each. If they are voted for, they will be shown in full.
2000 and 2008 falls into the ITV era, therefore the BBC is only allowed to show a maximum of five minutes - even if they are voted as winners.
THE MOST IMPORTANT NOTE OF ALL....The BBC will show five minues highlights of the races that didn't win the vote. Therefore, the 2000 and 2008 races are going to be shown regardless of what happens...do you understand that??? By voting for them, you are wasting a vote!
Read the above again and again until you can understand it! Hopefully then you will realise there is as much sense voting for a race that falls between 1997 and 2008 (ITV era) than there is continuously walking into a brick wall!!
Lord help us! ;)
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Senna27 is absolutely spot on.
I can't believe that those of you voting haven't grasped the following by now:
1. All of the options are guaranteed a 5 minute summary.
2. ONLY, and to repeat again ONLY, races between 1981 and 1996 are an option for highlights of 30-45 minutes. Prior to this, the BBC archive is patchy and there may be rights issues. After this, ITV held the rights and it would take far too many resources to re-edit highlights.
So the end result is this:
YOUR VOTE ONLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE IF YOU VOTE FOR RACES BETWEEN 1981 AND 1996. Other races will only get 5 minutes, REGARDLESS of votes.
The 2000 German Grand Prix is the best race here, but voting for it means nothing. Choose between either 1982 or 1991 to vote for.
Andrew, for the love of God man, make this clear on this blog. Just wait for Belgium when everyone piles in voting for 1998.
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To Lord_Lancashire:
Indeed people are entitled to have their opinion. They can pick whatever they want. It just seems to be daft though to assume that 2008 race was as good/better than 1961 one since you didn't see 1961 race. People saw 2008 race not more than year ago, they recorded in on DVD, they can watch it whenever they want. It's the old case of "I want to watch only what I know". Why then you are going (I assume) to watch German GP 2009? Since you can spend that time on watching 2008 race again!
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By the way, I vote for the 2000 German GP.
Then the 2008 German GP. ;)
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Well if 2000 wins we'll get Andrew's memories of the race. But to be honest I'd rather see a "Grand Prix" programme and read his memories of an older race.
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Some of you guys seriously need to chill out and stop ranting at people. Just calm down, chill out, and don't let something so trivial get you so worked up, there's no need. Rather than ranting at people, spend that time asking Andrew (either on here or by email) to produce 2 voting options in future, 1 for races before 1997, and 1 for races from 1997 onwards.
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Are we likely to receive one full highlights even if it's not the most received vote?
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So, basically, what Senna27 is saying is that this time we shouldn't have bothered having a vote, and the Beeb should just show the full highlights of the two races they do have because the others won't be longer than five minutes, regardless?
Either I'm not grasping the point of "voting" or Andrew has boobed with the choices, right?
On a personal note, I wouldn't bother with races less than five years old anyway, because in my opinion, it takes at least that long to see which races are remembered as classics anyway.
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We get the favoured race highlights and if 2nd place is very popular we get two.
If there's no guarantee of a bbc classic highlights race to be shown then I agree with Senna27 and Incast, it's mindless to vote for 2000 or 2008.
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91 followed by 82 please. Will the by on freeview this time?
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Andrew,
Please, please, please, please, please can we just have a selection of races where we are guaranteed a full 'Grand Prix' highlights programme. I am sure that everybody would rather see that than a compilation of five-minute clips from ITV that are fresh in the memory anyway.
Races from the late 90s onwards are readily available on the web to see.
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Except that I femember trying to track down a full highlights program of Malaysia '99 online and got nowhere!
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I know that most races on Youtube are being hunted down and destroyed for some reason.
Is that the FIA's doing?
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#135
That will be FOM who own the tv footage, nothing to do with the FIA
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I have noticed the youtube footage has been steadily declining, bloody FOM or whoever it is who owns the TV rights! But most people just put them straight back on youtube again. Is it Bernie who owns Formula One Management(FOM)? :)
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1961 deffo but would also like to see the original 1982 Grand Prix highlights program rather than highlights from the ITV years
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1st 1982.
2nd 1991.
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He showed full highlights of the Malaysian and Australian GP's that were post-97 I'm sure...
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No he never.
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For me it would have to be 3 options if I am allowed
1st Vote - 1982
2nd Vote - 2000
3rd Vote - 2008
I have chosen these three because I remember well the 2000 and 2008 grand prix and the '82 grand prix as my father said this was a classic if he ever saw one
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a lot of people are saying "2008, the wet race" - THAT WAS 2007
i vote 2007!!!
cool blog andy
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This is a strange quandry because i believe that the best race in my opinion was 2000 because of overtaking, the drama of 'Mr Halfwit' (gotta love Murray Walker) and that masterful strategic call by Rubens (Brawn said in an interview that it all Rubens who decided to stay out). Although because we can only get a 5 or 6 minute highlight version of it (as is the same with the 2008 race which i throughly enjoyed *pus flame shield up*) my votes have to go to 1982 (because i've never seen the Prinoni accident and have only ever seen the Piquet incident) and 1961 because even though it is years before my time i would still love to see it.
1991 wasn't the best of races but a good choice for a full race would be 1994 not just for the accident and the pitlane fire but for the miracle of Schumacher's stupidly underpowered Benneton V8 against Berger's big but fragile V12 (which i think was the cause of Schumacher's engine failure). 1999 would also be nice for me to see 5 minutes of because that race temporarily made me a big Mika Salo fan.
Nice blog, only one race i disagree with but i hope to see some Nurburgring Races at Valencia, for example 1999 (i don't mind only seeing 5 minutes because i have seen the whole race a couple of times) 2007 (i have only seen the first 3 laps and the Massa/Alonso battle) and 2003 because it's funny to every so often watch Schumacher get wasted by Montoya (although i am a big Schumacher fan).
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1991
every time.
Especially if you've got the footage of the Lamobrghini V12 spontaneously combusting!
The '82 event sounds worth seeing too, I'm afraid I wasn't old enough to remember that far back.
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I could have put it another way
Don't show anything from this millenia, they're hardly classic.
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For next season, 1981, 1986 and 1989 have to be up. Believe me, you will all love them. Although 1994 was Berger's day and Ferrari's first win since 1990, the race in itself was a bore as half of the field were taken out at the first corner. I'm still shocked how 1991 made it on the list!!
Anyway, moving on to Hungary, this should be straight forward (for the BBC races anyway)....
1989 Obviously the winning vote by a long margin and rightly so.
1992 Mansell wins the wdc, quite a few incidents, and overtakings.
Although 1993 was Hill's first win, the race was a bore as Prost started from the back and it was just pure Williams Renault dominance.
I would opt for 1996 as the third choice. Good battle between Villeneuve and Hill.
1986, a bore other than Piquet overtaking Senna which is all over youtube, I urge you to give it a miss despite it being the first race in the communist block.
1988 - a bore, plus no Murray Walker commentary - it happened to be Simon Taylor.
1992, Mansell w
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Well if we're talking about Hungary then I'd request '93 to be in the mixer actually! Damon's first win and I missed it first time around!
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MGUK82, you didn't miss much! Just Prost stalling at the start and Hill leading from the green light to the chequered flag finishing over a minute ahead of Patrese. It was a bore as he had no competition. His Belgian and Italian GP win's of 1993 were more interesting and impressive as he had to compete against Prost.
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That's funny, because Hill didn't win in Germany 1993. WHOOPS.
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Whoops me, lol, I didn't see it's about Hungary, haha.
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Re Hungary: Please can we have the option of 89; 98 and 06 (three great performances in my opinion). Also, thanks for this, I reckon I'm not the only one that is really greatful for this format. Thank you.
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Bored of Germany and we've not even seen them yet?
Wow, short attention spans or what?
Hungary '95, '97 though if we're petitioning already.
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For Hungary, 1997 is a must in my opinion, Hill's defining moment taking that awful, awful car to such crazy heights! Easily the most emotional race I ever watched that didn't involve an accident of some kind. I'm not even bothered that its ITV coverage and we won't get much beyond 5 minutes, seeing that Arrows almost win is one of my favourite moments of Grand Prix history.
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@ Ardius You're right I'd love to see Hungary 1997! that race made me cry!!! Exactly what lap did Villeneuve pass Damon to take that "Lucky" Win? I would really like to see that race, I liked Damon Hill...
Also Damon over took Schumacher, do we forget that Damon could actually go wheel to wheel... Oh I'd like Belgium 1998 for 30 mins highlights...
But going back to Germany, I'd like to see 1996 or 1997, but they're not on the list. So it has to be 2000, Rubens first win and what a win (From where on the grid?) Oh yeah didn't Mr Schumacher have problems and Brawn asked him (Rubens) to win? but Barrichello delivered. And that matters....
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Villeneuve passed Hill on the last lap...
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Belgium 1998 wouldn't be 30mins highlights
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Any race at the brilliant speed bowl that was the old Hockenhiem would be a good one! But if i had to go for one it would be the brilliant drive by Rubans in 2000 for Ferrari to get his first win, great drive. Also Hamilton's drive there last year was mega even if he clearly had a massive car advantage.
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1991 for preference - great to see a proper high speed track again after so long with only mickey mouse back yard circuits. 1982 second for the same reasons + Piquets side show. Interested to see how much of 1961 is actually shown.
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2008... but why is everyone talking bout people goin off at turn 1 in 2008? tht was 2007! 2008 was hockenheim!
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07, 08
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I'd loved to have senn '93 again, mostly for Berger and Blundell going wheel to wheel at 200mph... that was heart stopping, seeing it live.
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As good as these previous year's highlights are the ESPN coverage before the British GP was great as it included the full 1973 race and most of 1974, (I think) when Tom Pryce was on the front row and the rain came casusing several to spin off, plus several races from Brands Hatch. Is ESPN also showing German GP highlights that the BBC don't have?
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I would say 2007 should be there because of the weather, but wasn't that classed as a European Grand Prix, not a German Grand Prix, even though there wasn't a race at Hockenheim that year. I'm not sure about 2008 though there must have been better races than that!
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deffinately 2007!!!!
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i will be shocked if there is no 2007 german GP on classics GP'S
i was schocked when there was no Malaysia 2001 & 2003, when it was classic Malaysian GP's, those were the best races there (not inc. 2009)!
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When do we actually get to see the chosen classic race highlights? Why not just post what you've got straight away and let me enjoy? I could then vote on the best race having just seen them rather than trying to remember what happened in 1980 something!
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To those that are complaining about the absence of 2007, THERE WAS NO GERMAN GRAND PRIX IN 2007. The race at the Nurburgring in 2007 was called the European GP, not the German GP.
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come on people, when you talking about 2007, your talking about the European Grand Prix not German, i would of though F1 fans would realise this simple fact
2000 for me, hard to choose between 2003 British GP or 2000 German GP for Rubens' greatest victory, id say they were both on a par
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82 and 91 please
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2000 please.
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That is a good point, when are these videos coming because i'm looking forward to some awesome older action
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ATG360, the whole idea is you vote for which you want to see. No point voting for the best race if you've already looked at them all on here anyway, as the vote would be pointless
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