West Ham gets 2012 stadium nod but it's not perfect
In order to see this content you need to have both Javascript enabled and Flash installed. Visit BBC Webwise for full instructions. If you're reading via RSS, you'll need to visit the blog to access this content.
So we have finally got a decision. West Ham will be the preferred bidder of the Olympic Park Legacy Company to take over the 2012 stadium.
As I've said before in these blogs, I've always regarded West Ham as the favourites.
The fact is that Tottenham's plans to rip down the stadium and build a football ground in its place were not only unpopular with athletics fans but also with the public, as our BBC poll last month suggested.
But West Ham's plans are not perfect.
They will need £40m of public money in a loan from Newham Council to help pay for the conversion.
That won't be popular with everybody in the poorest borough in London.
But what also wouldn't have been popular was Tottenham's plans to dismantle a £500m stadium after the Games.
That is what the government and London Mayor Boris Johnson would have found hard to sell to the public.
More: BBC London 2012
Twitter: BBCLdnOlympics
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~38~RS~)
I'm BBC London's Olympics Correspondent, which means I report on every aspect of the preparations for 2012. I'm going to be telling you what people are saying about London's preparations - both in the Olympic corridors of power and on the streets of the capital - and I want to hear your views.
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
Extremely happy to have got the Olympic stadium, as you said, Newham is the pooorest borough in London and ticket prices at the moment are extremely high at Upton Park. Lower ticket prices = More West Ham fans so everyone's happy!
Complain about this comment
HOOT HOOT!!!
Now get the team sorted out to befit the stadium!!
Complain about this comment
I'm a UK taxpayer and have part funded this Olympic Stadium for the Olympics. Please can I have my money back or free West Ham season tickets? (lets face it, gonna be plenty of empty seats)
Complain about this comment
Why does every1 quote the stadium as '£500 million' when its turned to us as tearing it down? We are not 'tearing £500million down', we are tearing down £80 million, re-using it, and then re-investing into Stratford as a whole.
Can see things going horribly wrong for West Ham, yeah I'm a Spurs fan, but the atheletics track...just not gonna work, isit?
Complain about this comment
coccy kid
maybe when you grow up you can come to a game
Complain about this comment
@#1: Yes, everyone is happy. Well, except us Orient fans who face the prospect of losing our club when you move on to OUR manor. But who cares about us, eh? Certainly not the BBC, who have been almost entirely negligent in its coverage of us (not least, I hasten and am sorry to add, Adrain Warner himself), not the Premier League who are contravening their own regulations in allowing West Ham to move to the OlSt, and certainly not the Football League who have washed their hands of us in a manner comparable to Pontius Pilate.
Expect a raft of legal challenges and judicial reviews to appear once Boris inevitably gives his go-ahead.
Complain about this comment
And with misinformation like "£500m stadium" (£80m stadium, the rest is on the surrounding area being untouched) being propagated by BBC it's no wonder that Spurs lost the bid.
Complain about this comment
"Commercial sense 0 - emotional sense 1
Logic 0 - ranting board memebers 3
and finally a pools panel result just in:
the game of politicising vs misrepresentations was decided as a score draw."
Of all that's said and done, we still have to pay even more for a stadium that 99% of the population will never see.
Would rather have had the private money pay for it at least.
Although given the above comment, it is funny how 'tearing up the stadium to return it to a 25,000 athletics track is now not so much of a hard sell', compared to say having someone else pay for it. When I say 'funny' I'm not laughing.
Decision defies logic on so many levels.
Feel sorry for Crystal Palace and the O's on this one. Now both will suffer.
Complain about this comment
And the impact on Leyton Orient will be what ?
Both the Premier league and the football league rules state, in effect
that any club move " would not adversely affect clubs having their registered grounds in the immediate vicinity of the proposed location"
The O's are closer to stratford than the hammers are.
Will West Ham still be allowed to call themselves West Ham, as they will be playing at Stratford. ( I cite wimbledon/MK Dons here ).
In these days of economic austerity, why should a local borough pay £40M for this move. How many local jobs will have to go to finance that ?
Dont get me wrong, Spurs plan was even worse.
Complain about this comment
As a Spurs fan - I'm very happy - well done to WHUFC. Spurs' ideas on the site were ridiculous and walked over the long history associated with the club at N17. I hope we can develop our own stadium in Tottenham with or without Mr Levy and his group.
COYS!!!
Complain about this comment
Neither a Spurs or a West Ham fan, but can't imagine this stadium being very full when only 15,000 are watching West Ham play in the Championship. As a football fan, I'd of wanted to see Spurs get it and it not be a white elephant.
Complain about this comment
The 'political' bleating by West Ham, rousing hysteria of the London population in derailing what would ultimately be the most cost effective solution for the taxpayers will soon rebound on them.
Have they the nouse to recognise that seats will have to be sold ultra cheaply to keep attendances up - it'll need it to fill the empty space.
As a taxpayer I trust that there will be a covenant in place to ensure that the running track remains for the life of the stadium - this is our promise I believe !
Complain about this comment
The official BBC take on the Olympic Stadium decision, not even a passing mention of the impact on Leyton Orient FC.
Adrian Warner: you should be ashamed of yourself.
Complain about this comment
As a West Ham Fan i am against the move! Nothing to do with the athletics track but West Hams home for over 100 years has been Upton Park! It is not going to be the same and i think its disgraceful they can do this to the fans!
Complain about this comment
Very pleased to have the stadium, but will miss the Upton Park atmosphere! I have had season tickets to West Ham since the age of 6 and have very very fond memories of the ground. I will be very sad at our last game at the ground, but hopefully we will have greater memories to come from the Olympic Stadium! By the way CroatianKranc, you need to get your tenses correct, I believe you mean "were" tearing down a stadium worth £500mn of taxpayers money, instead of "are" tearing down!!!! Back to N17 you go!
Complain about this comment
Don't care about either plan - both have got massively negative sides to them, although this decision will probably be quite bad for WHU as they will never fill a ground with such a lack of atmosphere and such poor facilities
Really feel for Orient though - they've been totally ignored in this whole process
What I also care about is the fact that my money has been used to build a stadium for a football club - I'd like to have my cash back, please (& before magicfloridahammer says anything - I'd rather not have a discount on WHU tickets as I'm not that interested in watching Championship football to be honest)
Complain about this comment
I think it's crap. Gonna be miles away from the action, specially compared to Upton Park.
Feel sorry for Os fans too.
Complain about this comment
I'm sure everyone's really looking forward to seeing football half a mile from the pitch in a half-full stadium in the Championship.
Awful solution, the stadium has been designed as a temporary structure and now it's suddenly going to become permanent?
Doesn't make sense.
Complain about this comment
Very glad West Ham won the right to take over the Olympic Stadium post 2012 - geographically, Stratford is far closer to the historic and spiritual home of West Ham than Tottenham. This will also force Tottenham to remain where they should be in - in North London. It will be interesting to see how they create an arena with the same atmosphere as Upton Park (one of the best football grounds in that respect in England IMO) at an athletics arena. It'll be a challenge given the track will force fans to be much further away from the action as they'd like. I hope this will not change the experience of watching a West Ham football game as it is one of the great experiences in English football.
Complain about this comment
@ xpl0de
Don't be surprised if that rule is hastily changed to "would not adversely affect PREMIERSHIP CLUBS having their registered grounds in the immediate vicinity of the proposed location"
It's League One. No-one cares, it would seem, not even experienced journalists paid a silly salary to supposedly impartially bear all of these aspects in mind.
Once again, Mr Warner: SHAMEFUL.
Complain about this comment
#6...of course there will be judicial reviews, so many people had a say who were in positions of authority with connection to one party of the other. Levy has already said as much in a previous interview.
To be fair, if I were a reident of Newham I would bring into question the process over the 'loan' from what has publicly said about the voting process already (and minuted in the notes from the meeting I would envisage - a matter of public record for sure), that in itself is probably case in point for JD.
I am fortunate that my local authority would dream of loaning £40 million to a football club.
Complain about this comment
@dave
If "the historic and spiritual home of West Ham" is West Ham, why should they move ?
Complain about this comment
Yet again another BBC report without mentioning Leyton Orient - I suspect those in power will wish they had never heard of Leyton orient by the time this saga is finished.
How come the BBC has a report not available to other Media organisations - someone not recognising embargoes from within The Government or Olympic Park Legacy Company whose guidelines are flawed in not being required to take account of the existing legacy of sporting and community ventures?
Interesting to note there is no statement about seeking to compensate Leyton Orient and find ways to ensure the Leyton Orient Community Sports Programme does not lose out if Orient can't function viably.
West Ham have been advertising tickets for Premier League matches and Carling Cup Semi Finals, admittedly the Olympic Stadium will give them am extra attraction but it won't last unless the football is good.
Just see all the empty seats at the England International in Copenhagen tonight, I predict that unless West Ham can play in the top half of The Premier League and get to later stages of knock-out competitions they will be in a similar position.
Complain about this comment
Very happy the athletics track will be staying. Football gets far too much of a look-in whenever sport is mentioned. Also, once folk set their minds to it, look how the Dome / O2 has revolutionised the London concert & indoor sport scene. It is one great destination. The Olympic Park should be the same for outdoor sport.
The sooner this country 'gets' the idea of ground-sharing, the better. Lazio/Roma, Genova/Udinese, Inter/ACMilan, Juventus/Torino - they all do it and it works for the clubs. The rivalry is just as bitter in Italy as it is here. Financially it makes sense. From the fans' point of view it would provide better stadia. Given tv companies' sway over schedules, there would be no fixture clashes. (United/City - Liverpool/Everton - Villa/City - Chelsea/Fulham - West Ham/Orient - Celtic/Rangers - Hibs/Hearts - Bristol City/Rovers - Forest/County - you know it makes sense.)
Multi-sport arenas too - Stade de France = football, athletics, rugby. If the Irish had got their act together then Croke Park could have continued with Gaelic sports, football and rugby. Murrayfield could host Hearts & Hibs as well as the rugby - Hampden = Celtic, Rangers & internationals.
It's the way forward - let's stop being so damn parochial.
Complain about this comment
A decision based on false information in the public it seems. Spurs were never planning to knock down 500 million worth of stadium, they were going to move 80 million worth of stadium to crystal palace for an athletics track that could have been used all year round. However now athletics is stuck with a stadium that will be used for football for most of the year and will only be free for around 20 days.
The fact that Spurs were planning to borrow no money from the public and west ham are borrowing 40 million makes me wonder how this is a hard sell to the taxpayer.
What we now have is a stadium that will belong to west ham, a club who's own chairman has been on record stating that an athletics track with a football stadium does not work.
I am also slightly amused by the bbc's bias in this, where they appear to be printing a lot of rubbish by a woman called 'karen brady' who appears to have been given the right to make things up as she wants and publish them on your website. Whereas i have seen absolutely no pro Spurs articles. If she is representing women everywhere in the business world, she is doing so very very badly.
Complain about this comment
Do West Ham think they can really make this work! The owners are clowns as is Miss Brady. As stated before they will borrow yet more money from a local council to fund their plans. Surely it is in the interest of the locals that any money raised should be through the owners and and a finance house. Indeed this deal has come at a price to the locals.
Lets hope Levy takes legal advice on every aspect including a change of name, not biased as I actually want West Ham to remain in the premiership, its not the clubs fault they have such terrile owners
Complain about this comment
Why are we, the taxpayer, giving West Ham a 60,000 seater stadium for free?
Why are we loaning them money to convert it into a stadium fit for their use?
Why are we helping Gold & Sullivan get rich off a public project?
I don't understand why the likes of Arsenal and Tottenham and possibly Chelsea as well in the future are expected to build their own stadiums within their own means while West Ham are effectively bankrolled by the government to grow beyond what they're capable of doing on their own?
Let's hope there are no problems with the atmosphere, let's hope they don't get relegated so that the Olympic Stadium isn't playing host to Championship games, let's hope they can fill the thing, let's hope they don't destroy Leyton Orient by stealing their base of young fans with cheap tickets.
Complain about this comment
Ditch the athletics track and you'll have one fine football stadium.
Complain about this comment
The distance from the pitch may not be as significant as is being made out - apparently WHUFC will be supplying home fans a bull-horn and pair of binoculars.
Complain about this comment
@bobwarrington
And the BBC biase in not even mentioning Leyton Orient ?
p.s. Agree about Karen Brady
p.p.s. and agree about Mr Warner should be ashamed and BBC biase
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
No real surprise. However to say that Tottenham planned to rip down (you later say dismantle) a £500m stadium is inaccurate and amounts to exceptionally poor journalism.
The true value of the stadium is considerably less. That aspect of this matter has been covered in considerable detail, particularly during the last few days.
However at least you didn't go down the road of using phrases like "corporate crime".
I do hope that West Ham supporters will get the benefit of cheaper tickets and that BBC London will really push this issue. Sport for all has to encompass ticket prices. There is no point in having an Olympic Stadium if people can't afford to watch the sport it offers.
Good luck to West Ham and its supporters in their new home, most of whom have behaved with tremendous dignity in campaigning for their team. That is more than can be said for some occupants of Upton Park.
They should be ashamed of their behaviour.
Complain about this comment
How ironic that West Ham's ground at Upton Park which was the most intimate ground in top flight football and in the heartland of the true eastend support, is now to be replaced with a cavernous distant arena in a disconnected part of town. This is a disgraceful marriage of convenience between embarrassed politicians and ex brummie porn barrons.
Complain about this comment
The Olympic stadium should never have been offered to a football club. The UK has enough football stadia already. What we're short of are decent athletics facilities. Keep it as an athletic stadium and we may stand a chance of hosting the European and World chanpionships. That's not going to happen with the football World Cup is it? (You may have guessed I'm not a football fan but I'm not an athletics fan either).
Complain about this comment
" East London is ours, East London is ours
Go back to Tottenham
East London is ours"
After watching France V Brazil at the Stade De Paris tonight, I was reminded of how good our view was there for the Champions League Final I went to. Didnt even notice a track
Complain about this comment
Adrian,
your profile states
"I report on every aspect of the preparations for 2012."
so how come you missed the impact of this result on Leyton Orient ?
Complain about this comment
I also agree that the bbc have been wrong and based there views on false information in the public it seems. Spurs were never planning to knock down 500 million worth of stadium, they were going to move 80 million worth of stadium to crystal palace for an athletics track that could have been used all year round. However now athletics is stuck with a stadium that will be used for football for most of the year and will only be free for around 20 days so try telling the truth for once bbc.
The fact that Spurs were planning to borrow no money from the public and west ham are borrowing 40 million makes me wonder how this is a hard sell to the taxpayer seeing as this country is on its knees if a football club cant afford a stadium then they shouldnt move i dont want to pay for west ham to make millons when i will get no benefit from it.
What we now have is a stadium that will belong to west ham, a club who's own chairman has been on record stating that an athletics track with a football stadium does not work.
I am also slightly amused by the bbc's bias in this, where they appear to be printing a lot of rubbish by a woman called 'karen brady' who appears to have been given the right to make things up as she wants and publish them on your website. Whereas i have seen absolutely no pro Spurs articles. If she is representing women everywhere in the business world, she is doing so very very badly.
Complain about this comment
The loan is not public money, is prudential borrowing and it comes from the bond market not the public purse.
West Ham will not be the owner of the stadium, it will be jointly leased by the club and Newham council who will get a half share of the stadium and share of profits just for setting up the loan.
Last time West Ham were in the championship our average gates were in excess of 27,000.
While I agree something needs to be done to protect Orient, the Olympic Stadium is not in their manor it is in the same borough as the Boleyn Ground, Newham.
As for the name we are not in West Ham at the moment but Upton Park and the Olympic Stadium is nearer to West Ham and our original home than our current home.
Complain about this comment
Excuse me if I'm missing something here. But West Ham are already on Leyton Orient's doorstep. The O's only get 4,000ish fans. Most of them diehard O's fans. Why are they suddenly going to change to West Ham because of this decision?
Complain about this comment
Probably prefer West Ham to get it over Spurs because of the track but it's appalling that West Ham are getting public money on top of a free stadium.
With the money swilling around the premiership in obscene media contracts and player salaries it is offensive for West Ham to require extra public money. They're a private concern and should not be getting money from a council.
Complain about this comment
xpl0de:
Your comments regarding the East End geography aren't accurate.
- Stratford is in the old London Borough of West Ham
- The 2 Parliamentaty ditricts covering the area still have West Ham in their name
- Upton Park is actually in the old London Borough of East Ham
- The old London Boroughs of East Ham and West Ham joined to become NewHam, where both West Ham and the Olympic Stadium are based. Orient are in the next borough, Waltham Forest
- The Bolyen Ground is only 0.3 miles further away than Brisbane Road
Complain about this comment
why is my moderation taking sooooo long ?
Complain about this comment
Kamagliore
The wording of the rule is as follows: "would not adversely affect clubs having their registered grounds in the immediate vicinity of the proposed location"
Taking this wording literally, the move is adversely affecting Leyton Orient, due to the 60000 capacity of the new ground and subsequent cheap student tickets, regardless of any geography. Anyway, London is a heavily condensed City. 0.3 miles, if that figure is correct, is still a lot.
Complain about this comment
@ kamagloire - Spot on...
Although I do wonder why West Ham are looking for a new ground at this time? - Better them get it than the Spuds tho from every angle, least of all with it being at least in the same traditional Borough as West Ham. It's good they got it, at least when any player at that ground scores a goal they'll prolly think twice about ripping off the shirt and running to the crowd, it'll too far away hey ;o)
Well done to The Hammers on this one, you deserve it.
From a Gunner :)
Complain about this comment
To dispell one incorrect assumption, I have to point out first of all that West Ham wer named so when the London borough of Newham was known by the same name, therefore, a move to Stratford does not instigate any need for a change in name - besides, West Ham currently reside in East Ham.
From another viewpoint, Leyton Orient fans are - from my experience - passionate and loyal. Most West Ham fans I would suggest, are from the Essex area in recent times, and I don't see the O's struggling too much - and hope they don't.
I'm obviously a Hammer and have always lived round the corner. It would be amazing for us fans to have an affordable way to get to the games and support the team...
It's getting hard to try and sound so professional. Scepticism's been smashed by excitement and hope. Spurs 0 - 60,000 Hammers. COYI!!!!
Complain about this comment
38 ++While I agree something needs to be done to protect Orient, the Olympic Stadium is not in their manor it is in the same borough as the Boleyn Ground, Newham.++
It is less than 15 minutes walk from Orient to the Olympic Stadium. The Boleyn is three or four times further away, admittedly the Stadium is within the London Borough of Newham but part of the Olympic Park is actually in the London Borough of Waltham Forest the same borough that Orient's ground is in and has been (allowing for GLC changes) since 1937.
Complain about this comment
39 ++Excuse me if I'm missing something here. But West Ham are already on Leyton Orient's doorstep. The O's only get 4,000ish fans. Most of them diehard O's fans. Why are they suddenly going to change to West Ham because of this decision?++
alphaharps is missing the fact young people looking to go to their first football matches from the Stratford area are inevitably going to be drawn to the new Stadium at the centre of the best transport links, probably in the UK & are unlikely to go to Orient especially when tickets are given away and discounted as seems likely.
Despite advertising on National radio Stations West Ham still cannot fill their existing Stadium - they will be doing all sorts of deals to "drag" spectators in - Orient will be disadvantaged.
Complain about this comment
Over the moon to see Spurs fail. They really have turned into a nasty piece of work - club and supporters.
And that's even considering West Ham's board of porn peddlars.
Complain about this comment
Bluto1978 wrote: Probably prefer West Ham to get it over Spurs because of the track but it's appalling that West Ham are getting public money on top of a free stadium.
It's not public money, it's Newham/Goverment are merely acting as a broker to raise the money on the bond markets and the council will own half the lease anyway! And it's not free we will have to pay aren't for it!
Complain about this comment
SJyelsnyA:
That's a proper argument that needs looking at. xpl0de and others were talking about 'spiritual homes" and "manors". The East End belongs to West Ham, Orient and Dagenham. I would have welcomed Tottenham adding to that club as it can only be good for the area to have 4 rather 3 strong, established clubs - it's not the smash and grab everyone is making it out to be. West Ham have more claim to Stratford as an area than Orient, and I don't think it will hurt Orient one bit, but should that possibility be considered? Of course it should.
The West Ham hating is just getting on my nerves and I'd like to see us out of the press more since the Tevez dabacle.
Read post 24 which is the most sensible one on here. It'd be nice for a World filled with mature football owners and fans, but it's not around the corner is it?
Complain about this comment
Ok a few facts.
1) This is West Ham moving back into the old borough of West ham. So it is their spiritual home.
2) Though I have sympathy for Orient West Ham's original ground was slightly to the north of orients present ground so they cant claim that West Ham are moving into their territory, or that FA rules would come into operation.
3) Either decision would have bee bad for Orient but Tottenhams would likely have been far worse for it.
4) This is supposed to be development for the east end not a north London Billionaire to exploit developments there for his and his clubs personal benefit.
5) Man City were an insignificant Championship side when granted their stadium. look where they are now. Oh and doesn't Levy know that and sniffed the possibilities even if it means selling out his own fans and community.
6) This still nearly 5 years away even if West Ham are relegated. They have never been out of the top flight for more than a couple seasons in a row since 1959.
7) This stadium will be used by all sorts of sports thus making it a valuable asset to the whole community not simply an 'alien' football club.
8) Crystal Palace has been run down for years because it is the wrong stadium in the wrong place. That just might be why the plan was to build a new athletics stadium in Edmonton rather than do up that one.
9) Who would have financed the £5million a year cost of keeping the proposed upgraded but in practical terms useless (as history already proves) Crystal Palace stadium after Spurs initial convenient help?
10) Anyone know how much it costs to build a football stadium in London? Ask Arsenal, Ask Wembley Ask West ham who previously planned a stadium by West Ham station, a stones throw from the Olympic site? Well its a lot more than what Tottenham proposed to spend. So how come? Because we teh taxpayer will have coughed up the rest for Mr Levy's folly.
11) How did Tottenham plan to continue its moral commitment to local development in Harringey/Enfield while keeping to the promise to support local development in Newham/Tower Hamlets especially as West Ham would have been all but eliminated by the move. Would Tottenham have developed all those young players that the hammers have contributed to the England team over the generations? As my partner's son works as a coach for Tottenham and through him I know their present superficial commitment to youth football in North London I rather doubt that the 'Academy of Football' would have survived their transplant into the area.
Complain about this comment
Adrian Warner,
Can I ask that if this goes wrong for West Ham and UK Athletics you don't act surprised and report it as if it's simply news to you? You have had the opportunity to use your noggin along the way, but you've given a very shallow portrait of the issue and in my opinion one often lacking in insight.
No hiding behind the fact that others predicted it would go wrong when you make reports in the future, you swallowed it hook line and sinker, it won't only be the OPLC who are complicit in a future fiasco but the BBC as well and it's journalists who have made such a shoddy effort at getting beneath the skin of the issue.
Complain about this comment
Why would West Ham need to change their name to Stratford?
Stratford and West Ham are both places in Newham, in fact the Town Hall for the Borough of West Ham which merged with the borough of East Ham to form Newham was in Stratford. West Ham United first played at a ground which is next to the current West Ham Station which is one stop from Stratford Station on the Jubilee Line.
So being called West Ham United if based in Stratford is probably more relevant than it is now.
Now on to Leyton Orient. I lived in Newham for 35 years and actually in Stratford for 10 of those and outside of the train station platforms on matchdays I hardly recall ever seeing an Orient fan. At school between 1975 and 1986 I never encountered a single Orient fan, I would be astonished if things are much different today. Orient have for decades had a hardcore of 2-3k who more likely to travel from Essex/London borders than Stratford, in the same way the likes of Rochdale, Bury, etc survive alongside the Manchester giants so will Orient. As is currently the case West Ham and Orient rarely clash home fixtures so I am sure many fans will be free to watch Orient and possibly even more than now with extra cash in their pockets with fans paying West Ham's proposed lower prices.
In truth a Chairman giving the O's 10k capacity stadium will hinder their progression much more than either West Ham or Spurs moving into Stratford could ever do. I think Orient were hoping on Spurs getting it as their arguments were more valid against them than they were against West Ham especially as Barry Hearn has said he is happy to relocate closer to the OS into the Hockey Stadium, which kind totally undermines his argument totally.
Complain about this comment
Spurs fan here. Delighted for West Ham and hugely relieved Levy's plan to take Spurs there has failed. He has done Spurs' image no favours at all during all this. Got to feel sorry for the O's though.
Complain about this comment
As a Spurs fan i'm over the moon at this news.
Complain about this comment
Not a football fan but a sports fan
Good - West Ham got the stadium at least the £500 million will go on a stadium that is going to be used.
you can't take £80m out of a £500m stadium when it is built what sort of argument is that. Spurs wanted to replace the stadium when essentially meant dismantling most of it which probably cost more than £80 mill to put up!!!
Post 24 is spot on football stadiums are empty for most of the year not at 34 said free for 20 days??!!!
3 options were available 1 only made sense financially and morally.
O's worry about losing fans its a 15/20 min walk between the 2 stadiums before so what now 10/15 mins! Move to the Hockey stadium which is a possibility. Get the FA to help as they have plenty of money or the premier league if they want to help support wider football and not just avoid paying the tax man AGAIN.
Complain about this comment
40M of public money can be repaid via the increased revenue and taxes that West Ham will generate and pay. In the long term, new stadiums are cost effective.
Complain about this comment
11:14pm to now at 11:37 - Why does it take so long to moderate?
Step away from that deep-pan-pizza & get back to the job that we, the license payers, are paying you for ;o)
Complain about this comment
Sorry for spelling errors. I'm an ex-Forest Gate man sneaking personal use of a work computer in Sydney and have to move fast.
Just want to add that unless Orient are putting themselves forward, the Spurs move would have been much worse under adversely affecting other clubs, wouldn't it? Additinally, they could accused of actively wanting to adversely affect West Ham - think back pre-Redknapp years when the clubs were a lot closer in the league year after year. The difference now is they have learned how to run their club properly again. All this talk of West Ham in the Championship is silly as they just need to be run properly again as well.
Look at Newcastle, Everton and Liverpool - all have turned it around off the pitch first. West Ham have been relegated before, but have only spent 8 out of the last 50 years outside the top division (and they're not down yet this year). Some fans are just talking out of jealously and fear of the potential not handed to their clubs. Where is Man. City's criticism? They are inthe same situation and yet their owners don't need a public owned hand out.
Spurs' move had the added benefit of keeping West Ham's potential down. With Arsenal and Chelsea moving forward so strongly, the last thing Spurs need is a stronger West Ham too. The Stratford move was ideal for them, but could they survive an Orient, Dagenham, West Ham legal challenge?
Complain about this comment
xpl0de wrote:
"And the impact on Leyton Orient will be what ?"
Probably not a lot - are really expecting hoardes of fans to defect to West Ham just because they move a mile or so closer?
"Both the Premier league and the football league rules state, in effect that any club move " would not adversely affect clubs having their registered grounds in the immediate vicinity of the proposed location" "
Correct, but, as above, what is the 'adverse effect'? There are a number of league grounds in close proximity to others (e.g. Liverpool Everton, the two Nottingham clubs) these do not seem to suffer an adverse effect from the other.
"The O's are closer to stratford than the hammers are."
So what, they are not looking to move are they?
"Will West Ham still be allowed to call themselves West Ham, as they will be playing at Stratford. ( I cite wimbledon/MK Dons here )."
Of course they will - I don't see Manchester United changing their name to Stretford United just because their ground is not actually in the City of Manchester (yes I am a City fan, but the point is still valid)
"In these days of economic austerity, why should a local borough pay £40M for this move. How many local jobs will have to go to finance that ?"
They're not paying, they are lending the money, justifying that by the community benefits, and the jobs that will be maintained.
"Dont get me wrong, Spurs plan was even worse."
Finally, something I can agree with!
Complain about this comment
Slightly better than one other option, but time will show just how bad a decision this was. The stadium should have been kept as it was for the Olympics, ripping off the upper tier is a huge mistake and letting ANY football team anywhere near it is a much bigger one. I'll bet their old ground yields massive profits for a property developer whilst the public purse provides this stadium at next to zero cost.
Complain about this comment
This decision is typical of many made by people related to non-commercial entities where emotion and rhetoric are considered over hard commercial facts. Athletics has been a commercial disaster for a very long time and this just re-enforces many of the reasons why. It loves to blame government for a lack of support instead of looking in the mirror.
Just look at the budget of the whole Olympic project - it is miles over estimates and full of empty promises. It is not difficult to see legal action putting this whole farce into a very ugly mess in the near future.
It is worth remembering Tottenham were invited to put in a bid without the running track, and did so in the most commercially viable way. The misreporting of the facts on their bid has been astonishing - BBC included. The lack of challenging of the statements made by the West Ham owners has also been extraordinary - when so many are blatantly untrue.
That all said, the OPLC were left with an impossible decision - so went with the least damaging option given the media circus. Tomorrow is a different story as the knives will be out. How long before BBC Panorama digs up some dirt and the truth is told?
Good luck to West Ham. They might just need it.
Complain about this comment
Watch out PICKET'S LOCK, Enfield, there's a newish athletics centre, cinema, indoor bowls club and camping site just the job to be knocked down to make plenty of space for a new football stadium. It's not that far from an existing Premier League Club looking for a new venue. Or is this just a Cockerel and Ball story.
Complain about this comment
This is a complete shambles.
The decision taken is the easy option - but it will end in tears. West Ham are a great East London club but even as a premiership outfit they would struggle to fill a 60,000 stadium let alone in the Championship. Fans will soon moan about the athletics track. And what is this athletics track actually there for? When will athletics ever fill a 60,000 stadium? - it barely fills the crumbling Crystal palace arena even now. A World Championships? Possibly, for the 100m - but are we seriously saying West Ham fans have to endure a track for an event that lasts 10 seconds!
I appreciate the Tottenham bid was controversial - but it was actually the Get Out of Jail Card for the Olympic bosses. It knocked down a White Elephant Stadium, restored the Crystal Palace stadium - which would be the perfect sized arena for athletics (and could even be expanded for a world championships) - and best of all - all done without any public money.
Ultimately, the Olympic Management have a lot to answer for in terms of the original design of the stadium. They have spent a staggering amount of public money on a featureless bowl which was designed to be torn down after the games to be replaced by a wind swept athletics track. So desperate were the crazed athletics lobby to deny a premiership football club a tenancy at the stadium they never considered a stadium similar to the Stade de France in Paris which has a retractable athletics track and so answers all the problems regarding proximity to football action etc... It is this flaw in the original design, which lies at the centre of this shambles, and with the decision taken today there will be a lot more pain to come in future.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
38. -, Mogwyth wrote:
The loan is not public money, is prudential borrowing and it comes from the bond market not the public purse.
West Ham will not be the owner of the stadium, it will be jointly leased by the club and Newham council who will get a half share of the stadium and share of profits just for setting up the loan.
--------
- Actually the £40m loan comes from Newham Council and unless they have a secret Icelandic bank account, the cash will come from council taxes- ie public money.
- As with all leases this money will have to be paid back. I cant believe that West Ham supporters truly believe that tickets will get cheaper. You need to earn more money to be able to pay back a mortgage, not less. If West Ham get relegated and the gate receipts do fall ( no more PL income either) then will Newham have to step in again with more cash just so they dont lose their original investment?
- Alongside £40m from Newham, ( in addition the £500m tax payers contribution) how much will Brady and Gold invest in the Stadium? Their investment figures have been conspicuous by their absence
- As a Spurs supporter I am genuinely relieved that we lost the bid, all the biased reporting and disinformation was a shame. What an unnecessary drama this whole process has been.
And finally...Thank you to Lord Coe et al for your incredible lack of foresight in the first place.
Complain about this comment
it has to be wrong that public money (from newham) will be funding west ham
and if west ham are relegated from the PL and end up in the championship for a couple of years (or more), this will break west ham financially and gold and sullivan will walk
the worst possible decision for all involved
Complain about this comment
Why is it that the media including the BBC have constantly claimed that Spurs bid was based on ripping up a £500million stadium when this was clearly never going to be the case??
Complain about this comment
Surely permission will be required from the Football rather than Premier League?
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I don't get why Leyton Orient didn't bid for the ground as they would probably have been the most logical tenants. I feel if they were considering giving the stadium to a Premier League club they should have planned for it from the start and designed it like the Stade de France with a retractable track. Orient are closer to the ground than West Ham or Spurs and the club is in major need of some progression.
The stadium was especially designed to be reduced to 25,000 so why not let it be reduced, original bidding promises would be kept, Orient move into a modern ground, Spurs wouldn't leave Tottenham and West Ham wouldn't play Premier League football in some hybrid stadium ruining the fans' experience.
This is doomed to failure from West Ham's point of view. There will be empty seats galore and a poor atmosphere. Big clubs in Europe like Juventus, Panathanaikos and Espanyol have been desperate to leave these athletics track behind, can't help but feel West Ham will be in a similar situation 10 years down the line.
Complain about this comment
Ignoring above perceived skewed BBC coverage and economics for a second, I'd like to dwell on what the stadium decision means for those it's allegedly meant for. Regardless of the BBC coverage, I think it's a poor decision. Athletics as a legacy is more from 2012 than Bricks and Mortar. It SHOULD be about maintaining and preserving what London brought to the games and what the games means to young people than simply a stadium. Much less a stadium available for only several days per year. Where's a viable, inspiring legacy in that?
Despite their words, what good do Lord Coe et al. think that will do for the games (and niche sports) in the long run??
It seems short sighted. Moreover, the OPLC has obviously given the park to football as it's only viable long term tennant. It seems as though England/ GB is doomed to repeat the mistakes of previous Olympics holding nations. Worse than that - and I stress it's my own view - I don't trust the words, the noises coming from West Ham United's owners (based on noises made surrounding internal club affairs in the past).
I fear they will be granted the use of the stadium, realise falling attendances (admittingly offsetting them with cheap tickets to those in surrounding areas) and rip out the running track at any rate. The public will be indignant for a month, and then a new football season will come along, and everyone forgets/ ignores this, rendering this current bidding process pointless - and does the global public even care?
SPURS, Leyton Orient or those who hold no interest in the Olympics or won't be able to go, for me, are paying the price, for beaucrats, and Lord Coe et al., promising a legacy they simply couldn't deliver - playing with taxpayers money with perceived bottomless pit - only made worse by another £40million from Newham Council as aid for the West Ham bid.
If everyone (UK taxpayer) who either didn't want the olympics - or didn't care, or can't go wanted to ask what the point was - who could realistically say we'd more than return the taxpayers money saving us GBP net? Or even that these things were glorious and made us the envy of the world long term (for athletics, or football stadia and its atmosphere) based on this decision?
Complain about this comment
This decision is the result of compromise. The stadium was clearly ill-conceived in terms that it was not designed with a valid compromise in mind, but demolishing the stadium entirely is of course pretty dim-witted.
The move will not suit West Ham for two reasons: the obvious one of having a running track will remove the one benefit of the Boleyn Ground, the proximity of the stands to the pitch and the intimidating atmosphere that results. The second issue is that pitch level at the Olympic stadium is below ground level so no air movement will be possible over the pitch so the grass will struggle to grow well. So no atmosphere and a poor pitch, both will not be good.
The plus for West Ham fans is that the site will be easier to access than the Boleyn ground, public transport links for the current ground are pretty dreadful whereas Stratford has infinitely better links (apart of course from those West Ham fans living close to District line stations).
Obviously a bigger stadium potentially means more income for the club and the potential for cheaper tickets so every West Ham fan that wishes to, should get tickets for all but the biggest games.
This is appalling news of course for the Mighty Leyton Orient, it should be disallowed under league rules or at least West Ham should annually pay a substantial compensation fee to the O's if there is a negative impact on O's attendances. Given the corporate nature of Modern football this is highly unlikely to happen.
This is also bad news for West Ham fans wanting a pre-match drink, most of the pubs local to the stadium have closed, so unless new outlets open as part of the Olympic developments they will have to be fleeced by the beer prices in the stadium.
This is of course also bad news for the developers wishing to sell apartments next to the stadium, the prospect of thousands of West Ham fans descending upon their neighbourhood 30 odd days a year will hardly be a good selling point, except of course to West Ham fans.
Complain about this comment
The whole idea of Leyton Orient getting any less fans than they do now is entirely laughable, its not like the people in stratford have far to go watch West Ham or there is shortage of premier league clubs within easy distance is there? It will have about as much as effect on the club as it does now, its a silly argument.
To those going about tax and the goverment bank rolling a team, what about Man City, I think most you are probably bitter spurs fans or other teams fan bitter we are getting a world class stadium. So it was ok for Man City to get bank rolled but no ok for west ham, its 40m loan because it will also be community hub and the club are strengthening there links with the local council which can only be good thing.
Considering West Ham have at least 18000 season ticket holders with 17000 on the waiting list. (I can't remember exactly how many tickets we allow for season ticket holders). I'd like to know we 're with cheaper tickets going to have attendances of 15000, even in the championship we average close 30000. Another myth busted.
In recent years I've noticed Upton Park getting less and less intimidating for away teams as the crowd slowly dies along with most football crowds but this could rejunivnate by letting true supports in who can now afford it. It always been the supporters more than the stadium.
So here we have a world class multi purpose stadium and not just football stadium or just a small athletics stadium that for most of the year will go unnoticed but one one that will provide world class sports and entertainment events in area that desperately needs the investment.
Complain about this comment
71 ++I don't get why Leyton Orient didn't bid for the ground as they would probably have been the most logical tenants++
Fans were told 4 or 5 years ago by the club' owner back before stadium was designed that the Olympic Authorities were not prepared to adapt the design so that seating could be right next to the football pitch and over the athletics track - there may have been other difficulties as well.
I think Orient have only said they are willing to consider the Hockey Stadium but that almost seems a non starter to me because Hockey is played on Astro Turf and Football on grass.
I can't see much scope for compromise, also just because Orient might agree to be in the Hockey Stadium (coincidentally due to be re-sited in the Olympic Park corner that is located in Orient's existing Borough of Waltham Forest, I cannot see that they will readily agree to move even nearer to West Ham than they will be already.
The main issue that remains is that the Premier and Football League rules that say clubs should not relocate to the disadvantage of another club. The Premier League have somehow found justification for approving West Ham's move, so unless O's are appropriately compensated I can see the whole business ending up in court!
Complain about this comment
Orient fans, thanks for your comments. I didn't mention Orient tonight on the blog because it was a breaking news story and I didn't have much time to write it as well as complete our reports on radio and TV. BUT I did mention the club on BBC London Radio 94.9 FM tonight and BBC London TV has covered the Orient question in a special report on the effect of the 2012 stadium on the Games. We understand the story, don't worry and we are covering it.
Complain about this comment
@Mark #34 wrote
-----
The Olympic stadium should never have been offered to a football club. The UK has enough football stadia already. What we're short of are decent athletics facilities. Keep it as an athletic stadium and we may stand a chance of hosting the European and World chanpionships.
-----
Why are we short of decent athletic facilities? Could it be because there isn't the demand for it? UK Athletics have already shown they can't maintain existing stadia (Crystal Palace) because the demand for athletics just isn't there. Did you see them dipping into their pockets to make a bid for the stadium - even in its original intended form, a 25k athletics stadium? That would be a no, because it just isn't viable.
And so what if we miss out on hosting the European and World Championships? At best it would be two events that could fill a stadium in what, 30 years?
The stadium should have been built with football in mind in the first place, that it wasn't is am enditement of Lord Coe.
As a Spurs fan I'm pleased we didn't get it. I'd rather win the occasional FA Cup and parade it around Tottenham than sell my soul to the devil.
Hopefully Lamy and Harringey will now pull their fingers out to make the NDP a viable proposal.
Complain about this comment
As a lifelong Spurs fan I can honestly say that I am delighted that we are staying at the lane. Levy is normally spot on as a chairman but he had his finger miles off the pulse on this one. He claimed that "the vast majority" of fans supported the move to Stratford yet all my family and most of my mates are all Spurs fans and not one of them wanted to see us moving to East London. Redevelope our real home the lane as was originally planned and it's best for the club, the fans and the Tottenham area. Everyone's a winner on this one. Congrats to West Ham! Come on you Spurs!!
Complain about this comment
76 ++At 01:47am on 10 Feb 2011, Adrian Warner wrote:
Orient fans, thanks for your comments. I didn't mention Orient tonight on the blog because it was a breaking news story and I didn't have much time to write it as well as complete our reports on radio and TV. BUT I did mention the club on BBC London Radio 94.9 FM tonight and BBC London TV has covered the Orient question in a special report on the effect of the 2012 stadium on the Games. We understand the story, don't worry and we are covering it.++
It is not just a mention I want, it is some proper journalism.
Questions of Premier League about their rule breaking.
Questions of Politicians and Olympic Legacy Company about objectives NOT including maintaining and sustaining existing community legacy, rather than plant another one that dashes what is in place aside.
That is just a start!
Complain about this comment
I love all this talk about not filling this stadium while in the Championship. Has no one read that this ground will not be ready till at least the 2014/15 season. That's 3 years people for the hammers to get back in the Premier league IF they go down. I for one welcome the move. I know most of the hammers fans where I live will be going to games more often coz it will be so easy to get to the ground. One train no underground for us coming from the coast!
Complain about this comment
Look at Spurs before Redknapp got there. Coupled with the risk they have to take to try and stay with the big boys, they could get relegated before 2015 - it's happened to them before.
Complain about this comment
76 again ++I didn't mention Orient tonight on the blog because it was a breaking news story and I didn't have much time to write it as well as complete our reports on radio and TV.++
Piffle, hardly a late breaking story - this report which reveals the decision was filmed well in daylight -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12413138
So before - about 5pm. Orient were not mentioned. The blog and other stuff was prepared to go live on the website seconds before 10pm, presumably some sort of news management - hiding the report from other news outlets, presumably principally ITV and SKY as well as print newspapers first editions, there was plenty of time to mention that Orient are impacted in written stuff on the website.
Who leaked it to you,and why - you are obviously not going to say, maybe Mihir Bose or David Conn will dig that out eventually.
Anyway, as I have said above there has been plenty of time in recent weeks since I and others started answering BBC blogs with info about broken Premiership rules and flawed objectives of Olympic Park Legacy Company.
And why was not John Whittingdale questioned about this stuff on Monday lunchtime on BBC2's Daily Politics Programme about Football Inquiry of Select Committee? It was a perfect issue to show up the dominance of Premier League as came out in the questioning of the Committee on Tuesday - Minutes are due by Friday I have been told.
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=7632
What about asking FA what part they have to play in overseeing conflicts between members and Leagues? - There is stuff in their rules, which I can't get to grips with, but I am not a trained journalist with the resources of a team of colleagues at BBC all blogging about the same thing with not much coherence between them.
Roger Mosey, Matt Slater, David Bond and Gordon Farquhar are all ploughing in the same furrow, but going in different directions - do you have a strategy to work together and pool information or are you all competing with each other?
Above all, remember the current mess has its origins back before the bid for the Olympics was made, or at least from the design stage of the main Stadium - at which time there had already been consultations with Orient, that dragged on for ages. What about the politicians involved? - In recent years Governments have changed Ministers and policy as frequently as some of us change shirts!
Then there are all the consultants to the Olympic Legacy Company and other Quangos and Government with their scoping evaluations gobbledegook, and yet there seems to be no thought of the existing community activities that have been developing incrementally since London spread east with the factories and railways.
So, what about the Local Authorities contribution to the aims and objectives, did they think about what is already done in the names of and by their existing communities or were they just scrabbling to get some of the Olympic cake?
I have only looked and really thought about this since I realised that really daft decisions were about to be taken as a consequence of irreconcilable commitments of ages ago.
This is the stuff journalists are supposed to be investigating, instead of just getting pap stories about aged footballers - Pele or Jimmy Greaves, as if what they think is of great significance unless they have really been part of the process and/or are closely involved with the communities and organisation affected.
And finally - for now, Many, many millions of pounds is being spent on this stuff by a nation that uses charity to care for children in desperate need, fund ambulance helicopters etc. etc.. while many of us get cushy lives with little real risk or are even privileged to earn a living writing about other peoples sporting activity!
Complain about this comment
Wow! You make some very good points there. Unfortunately, I missed too many them in between the hostility.
Are you more concerned about the stadium, process and ethics around the whole thing? Or about privileged journalist not doing there jobs? The first is being discussed here, and you could run for public office and try to make sure such a debacle never occurs agains. Similarly, you could train to be a journalist and do something about raising the bar in that profession too.
Anyone can criticise. What are you going to do about it. If you're active already, give us some measured insight.
Complain about this comment
I look forward to the debacle that ensues. It will be rather farcical.
Complain about this comment
Agreed! Much like the Tevez Affair, everyone will fight their own corner and ignore all other points of view.
Complain about this comment
Are the UK govt going to help out all struggling football clubs from now on???
Complain about this comment
For those who dispute the 0.3 difference between West Ham, Orient and the Olmpic Park.
DISTANCES BY ROAD:
Orient-Stratford: 2.1 miles
Upton Park-Stratford: 2.4 miles
Orient-West Ham: 4.2 miles
Spurs-Stratford: 7.1 miles
(Distances: AA route planner)
The clubs get closer, but it's not much different to clubs in cities like Dundee, Liverpool, Sheffield, Bristol etc...
Complain about this comment
@ 88 The AA distances are not to the Olimpic Park.They are to Stratford Broadway.Everyone just look on a map and never believe what alcohlics anonymous tell you.
Complain about this comment
I'm not a football fan, and see only a face saving botch job to create the impression that an olympic legacy has been maintained, when the truth is that dual use always means that athletics comes second best. For much of the time the facility won't be available to athletes, because of matches and pitch maintenance, and hammer throwers for example, will hardly ever be able to use the outfield area to throw into for obvious reasons - gouging holes in the turf. The WH solution would have created an exclusive athletics stadium which, though, not in the same location would have amounted to a genuine athletics legacy . . . this compromise serves no-one well, and all those famous athletes who threw their support behind it weren't thinking about the practical benefits to athletics . . they'd been primed to follow the party line . . or they didn't really appreciate the consequences of their support. My interest as a world ranked athletics veteran is to see the widest possible participation in athletics. This "legacy" decision won't help in that direction at all.
Complain about this comment
Oops . . . Should have said the "Spurs" solution would have amounted to a genuine athletics legacy . . . .
Complain about this comment
Adrian Warner is just one of the many BBC biased journo's ,who have no business sense and are in the pockets of Lord Coe etc.
This decison is wrong we are chucking money into this money pit and we will get nothing in return.
Athletics will get this for 20 YES 20 days a year what the hell will that do for the young prospects in this country , NOTHING !
If you live in Newham and are struggling to make ends met go along to Upton Park and see if they can lend you some of your hard earned money back.
Complain about this comment
Some of you people are so easily conned. The track will stay for a couple of years and when all the hype has died down it will be ripped up just as was always intended by whoever got the ground, plus if left as is W.H. wont even half fill it................I see another "dome" coming up. The truth is all the people involved in this don't really give a t*ss what happens to it afterwards, they're just playing the game
Complain about this comment
Gold, Sullivan and Brady take note- you want a war, so now you will have one. Your lack of consideration for teams below the Premier League is a disgrace for owners of a club that may be in one next season.
The Olympic Commitee have now sealed the fate of the O's, and maybe that if we do go, you will realise just what you have done.
@michelle
We did not bid for the stadium because:
a) we did not want a running track
b) our crowds average about 4000. In a 25000 seater stadium (as per the original plans) that would be ridiculous.
Complain about this comment
Funny to hear Leyton Orient fans bleating about West Ham encroaching on 'their' patch. Were they not based in Clapton before deciding to uproot and move into West Ham's area? If so, why should West Ham's ambitions be limited by the narrow self interest of Clapton Orient?
Complain about this comment
As a Hammers fan I say 'Well done Spurs!'
This will be a disaster for the Hammers, lower ticket prices my backside, we'll have to spend millions to turn it into a football venue, turnstiles etc. Delboy,Rodney & Marlene Brady have stitched us right up. Cheers.
Complain about this comment
kikujiro
You sound like another one of those Premier League fan boys who don't care about a lower leagues, and a club that has put so much into the community.
Complain about this comment
As an athletics fan, and having already bought my tickets for the Aviva London Grand Prix next August. I continue to receive emails from UK Athletics urgeing me to buy tickets. The latest offering a 15% discount. If London's biggest meet of the year is struggling to fill Crystal Palace, why on earth does London need a 60,000 athletics venue?
Buffoons like Seb Coe should own up, and admit that there will be no massive appetite for athletics, as now, and stop all the posturing. West Ham do not have the resilience to support the venue, they'll pull out, and the good people of Newham will see £40m sail off into the sunset. As the athletics community have failed to even raise a viable bid, the only financially sound option is Tottenham. If the West Ham bid is accepted, the decision makers must be held to account when the taxpayers have to pick up the tab!
Complain about this comment
It's a shame that "athletic fans" as mentioned in the blog haven't at any point questioned UK Athletics over the way they've behaved in this entire situation. Despite all the bleating, the stadium was offered to UK Athletics - they turned it down. They turned it down because they didn't want to have any responsibility for paying or maintaining it. Part of the reason a new athletics stadium is needed is because the people in charge of UK Athletics have allowed it to become run-down. That's the real disgrace in this and which people should be angry about, not criticising West Ham or Spurs who were the only options. Barry Hearn, of Orient, made it clear that the club would have been interested in taking it, as they should have been first choice, but were basically snubbed by those in charge who completely ignored his suggestions for how it should be set up to get the best for both athletics and football. Instead people like Lord Coe made all sorts of promises to the IOC that they had no right to make and that they were unable to live up to. People should be asking why they made those promises, but that seems to be another issue swept under the carpet.
As a Spurs fan I'm glad we're not getting it, but I have to say the Spurs bid has been utterly misrepresented by a whole host of people who haven't bothered to look at the bid itself or even listen to the club when they've tried to explain it.
Complain about this comment
I find all of the O's related comments hilarious. Everyone is related to having a dig at West Ham... the only other feasible option was Spurs, so the argument is kind of mute. That's why it hasn't got any attention, because when you think about it, it's tough luck. I feel sorry for the O's, I really do, but think about the argument, there isn't one. If a little music store has hmv move in next to them on the high street, it's tough, you feel sorry for them, but deal with it and move on.
Now to the real point at hand, I'm a hammer and I really wish this decision had been left til the end of the season and you all know why. If we stay up, brilliant move; attract new players, more fans (even if they may be plastic and further away from the pitch...), more revenue, more media attention and tv coverage. HOWEVER. If we go down, we are in serious trouble, they will have to renegotiate the deal no doubt and West Ham will have gone from owning a stadium to renting. If we get relegated, this will go down as the worst decision possible. I want to rant more and make more points, but I'm getting disheartened as I type!
Complain about this comment
I love how a lot of the West Ham fans and board for that matter are completely unaware of anything outside of the premiership.
Say the shoe was on the other foot?
Say the O's were in the premiership and west ham were in league one with crowds of around 4000, making half a million pound loss every year. Then imagine Orient moved to within a mile of your ground. then say, because we couldnt fill the stadium we offered cheap discount tickets to people....people who would cleary rather pay £10 to watch premiership football than £20 for league one football. People whos kids would go to Orient and grow up supporting them for life, and their kids and their kids while west hams attendences went down and down until they could no longer sustain themselves?
Imagine that was the case, how many of you would have the same view as you do now. Premiership is all about the money, no consideration at all.
I also saw Karen Brady in the Sun today, having the cheek to have a pop at Spurs for not considering anything other than themselves. What a joke. The mock up made me laugh, not only because the stadium looked like a sell out but also as the fans looked pitch side and not half a mile away....Would probably be closer to the pitch sitting on top of Orients West stand come to think of it.
Complain about this comment
There was never a competition for the stadium. If the stadium had been given to west ham unchallanged there would have been an outcry at the public subsidy of a private compnay with multi million pound turnover. Totenham played their role as and a "mock" battle was fought. Reflects politics in this country.
Complain about this comment
west ham will never fill that stadium.
Complain about this comment
@livin la Reo Choker
'Deal with it and move on'
You would not say that if, as AlwaysOrient says, we were the bigger club and you were on the receiving end. You would not just sit by and let your club possibly go out of business. Shame the OLC, Sullivan, Gold and Brady do not realise that.
As I said before- they want a war. They have opened up the gates to their own hell by doing this to us.
Complain about this comment
Does the BBC have something against Barry Hearn I wonder? Maybe the way in which Mr Hearn flogged most boxing rights to Sky and HBO? When was the last time a major boxing match was on free-to-air TV? Or what about the cration of the PDC that nearly destroyed Darts?
I believe Snooker World Championships are protected, so Mr Hearn couldn't flog those to the highest bidder, unlike the PDC World Darts, of whom Mr Hearn is Chairman.
It seems that the BBC are slowly getting their own back on Mr Hearn!
Complain about this comment
livin la Reo Choker
There's no if. You're going down and you need to start viewing this in that context.
Complain about this comment
It makes a change for UK Athletics to do something which is not London-centric. Once Crystal Palace FC have moved back to their old stamping ground the 20 days (in June) at the Olympics Stadium will be all that is available for large athletics events in London, so other parts of the country will get a much bigger share over the year.
I hope West Ham wont find themselves with a costly millstone once they move - the superstructure that expands capacity over the base 25,000 was designed and built as a temporary addition so not removing/replacing it wont be a cost-free option. Mind you, renaming the stadium for a commercial sponsor could bring in a tidy sum.
With regard to Spurs, I expect they have a couple of alternative sites on their list; it seems unlikely they will stay where they are.
Complain about this comment
LOFC
Don't lump all WHU fans into the same basket. There are many hundreds of us, maybe thousands who have been regular visitors to Brisbane Road.
I, and many of my friends often frequented Orient when the Hammers were away, being football fans, and interested to keep the O's afloat. I remember well the bucket being passed around the stands and more cash being thrown in just so you could pay the wages of the staff.
I was there the night the O's almost secured promotion to the old 1st division. It ended in failure but it was a mighty close thing.
There doesn't have to be a war. Orient's success in the local community will continue to bear fruit if only because it will remain focused directly there as it should be.
WH's focus is a wider one because (and I mean no insult here) it is the larger concern with an extended fan base throughout Essex and the SEast.
Personally I would have liked the opportunity to have teamed up with the O's somehow because I thinkas East Londoners we have a natural affinity and historically there has been no animosity really between the clubs.
As a Hammers fan I would prefer to have the opportunity to have a redeveloped Upton Park, but as Spurs fans are discovering - it isn't so easy. Maybe we have to 'move on' but I have to say I have some grave reservations.
Ultimately and sadly, in todays world, it does seem it is everyone for themselves. It might seem daft for WH, in their current precarious position, to be considering such a move, but every business has to have a plan that shows development and expansion otherwise you wither and die. Nobody though should take a fixed position on this. 2012 is still some way off and if a lot can happen in a week in politics, then so much more can happen in 18 months in football.
But you can be assured, I don't think there is a single true WH fan who would want to see Orient suffer as a result of anything we do.
Complain about this comment
@inoffapost
'Don't lump all WHU fans into the same basket'
I'm not mate. I know that most of you want to retain Upton Park. It just seems like it could be the 'armchair fans' that down give a monkies about the lower division.
Complain about this comment
@LOFC
This is where we disagree though, I don't think it will damage your club. I think that it will help people realise that you're a cheaper and probably more entertaining option (cos we're not very good lol). If you look at the positives, if the majority of people are right about the lack of atmosphere you may find more locals going to watch the O's for more of a buzz. Plus it may attract more people to the area in the first place. I think there are positives for the O's but people are refusing to look at them, which they should considering it is us or Spurs.
@Rubbernutz
I don't really understand how my point of view would make West Ham go down? Care to be constructive?
Complain about this comment
All this about moving on the someone else’s turf......we don’t play in West Ham at the moment we play in Upton Park, So we wouldn’t have to change our name.
Also Orient has lasted this long with us in extremely close quarters so I’m sure they will survive.
Plus i know this will probably not happen but rather than get a sponsor’s name on the stadium why not call it ''Upton Park'' which is of course the unofficial name of our stadium now!!!!
Complain about this comment
All this talk of West Ham and Orient - does anyone seriously think a tupenny halfpenny team like West Ham, The O's or even Spurs warrant the olympic stadium (temporary structure or otherwise)? Let's face it, none of these teams are going to be able to fill the place.
Get real chaps.
Complain about this comment
Nicely mocked up image of the OS under West Ham "ownership". Not only is there no athletics track in sight, but it is probably the closest to being see as full it is likely to get.
I'm pleased with the decision, Spurs and West Ham have both got what they deserve.
Complain about this comment
Will Newham Council lend money to all the other businesses in the area, especially the ones near the present ground who will go bust when the team move?
I know it is hard to get a loan from the banks at present but surely those two multimillionaires did not need the council to arrange one. Did the banks think it was too risky?
Complain about this comment
@livin la Reo Choker
It will not damage us in the short term, but long term I think we are in HUGE trouble. We really do hope you are right and it won't damage our club, but we have to prepare for the worst.
Complain about this comment
83 ++Wow! You make some very good points there. Unfortunately, I missed too many them in between the hostility.
Are you more concerned about the stadium, process and ethics around the whole thing? Or about privileged journalist not doing there jobs? The first is being discussed here, and you could run for public office and try to make sure such a debacle never occurs agains. Similarly, you could train to be a journalist and do something about raising the bar in that profession too.
Anyone can criticise. What are you going to do about it. If you're active already, give us some measured insight.++
I am short of insight right now.
As a fan of Leyton Orient, I have seen them disregarded because other clubs are bigger as a news item for all the time I have been a supporter.
The points I have made are the ones that I think support my case.
Having stood for election, done a job with huge public responsibility I have got that out of my system now, I have written to my MP on the issue several times, the Football Association, the Olympic Park Legacy Company, the House of Commons Select Committee on Football Governance, I am going to continue doing what I do and try to alert those who will be effected by the issues, so they can also approach their elected representatives who have yet to take the ultimate decisions.
I am not about to train for another career but I am prepared to praise good stuff and criticise the not so good as doing my bit to get high quality journalism.
Ultimately I am just another flawed human being!
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Methinks Orient protest too much! If West Ham were going to take fans from Orient to an extent that would drive them to the wall the current close proximity of the clubs would already have done that. More likely that it suits Mr Hearn to use this either to move to the Olympic Hockey Stadium or perhaps to Harlow, as has been suggested before.
As for Spurs fans complaining about misinformation - £500m was spent on an athletics stadium, if Spurs had been successful there would have been no athletics stadium. Doesn't take an Alistair Campbell quality spin doctor to turn that into "tearing down a £500m stadium". If the people leading the Spurs bid couldn't foresee that that would be the way it was presented by their opponents, they don't deserve to win the bid!
As a Palace fan, I'm very pleased, that the Hammers have won, as it helps Palace (another small club that Spurs thought they could trample over) in their move to Crystal Palace park.
Complain about this comment
I think it coulda been worse for Orient, so they should ease up on the hate for west ham. imagine if tottenham had moved in that close? a champions league team, wityh potential to be challenging for the PL title in a few years. imagine that right next to you for a cheaper price? coulda been a lot lot worse for you. but i hope you are not affected by it too much and well, if your strong enought Orient fans i'm sure u'll find away to get your kids to go to orient games.. :)
Complain about this comment
What a lot of the WHam fans seem to have been missing is that it's not just the proximity to Brisbane Road that's the issue but specifically Sullivan's plans to slash ticket prices to fill their stadium.
Orient may just about have been able to differentiate their match day offering from that of Spurs on the grounds of price if nothing else, £50-£60 to see a Premier League match versus £10-£15 for an Orient game. But West Ham are going to be massively under-cutting even Leyton Orient's discounts and locals are going to get to watch Premier League football instead.
The committed Os won't be affected, but a club lives or dies on the young blood it can attract. What would you chose to spend your fiver on as a youngster growing up in Leyton, going to watch West Ham play Arsenal or Leyton Orient play Darlington?
The only hope for Leyton Orient is that West Ham do a City/Leeds and fall down the divisions then they may end up with a farcical East London derby in 90% empty Olympic Stadium.
Complain about this comment
@tonydunmore
We want to stay at Brissie Road. We do not want to move to Harlow, but we have to consider it if your move into the stadium hurts us.
Complain about this comment
I Think the majority of Spurs fans will be happy with this, no one is particularly keen on trekking over to Stratford. Think there might be a small element of a slap in the kisser but Levy made a serious proposal on what he thought they could do with the stadium, rather than a get-it-at-any-price commitment. The big unknown in all this is of course what happens if (I don't think they will be) W.Ham are relegated ?. The owners have already claimed that they would have to dig in their pockets to the tune of about 30 million if that happened. Also, what would be Newham councils attitude in that scenario ? because as I understand it the council have no guarantees in place from the owners.
Complain about this comment
Yeah i see your point, but oh well
COYI!!!
Complain about this comment
#5
And maybe when you grow up yourself you'll realise that the world isn't just about what London wants. Public money being used to provide a stadium for London and then for some obscure football team.
That said out of the bids tendered West Ham were a better option than the carpetbaggers from Spurs. But really they should be made to groundshre with Orient.
Complain about this comment
Why DO BBC journalists find it so hard to apologise for messing up? Is it an ego thing or fear of legal action?
Complain about this comment
I do hope the West Ham bid goes ahead because of it's promise to retain the athletics bid. After all the financial investment and sponsorship that has been put into the design and construction, it would be a complete disaster if any buyer of the 2012 stadium then proceeded to knock the whole stadium down, totally threatening any progress that may have been made in the run-up to the Olympics.
Tottenham Hotspurs Club should be ashamed of themselves - they already have planning permission to develop White Hart Lane - the owners will be turning their back on the Haringey Borough and parts of the local economy which relies upon the Club, if they ever get the 2012 bid. At least Arsenal stayed in the same area when it built its new stadium.
As for West Ham fans, they should be glad of getting a brand new stadium and if the only problem is the distance between the pitch and the first row, then to be honest, that could be overcome by installing speaker technology. There will always be some sort of solution, even a compromise is a solution. It's shame that there hadn't been another bid of the similar content to counterbalance the West Ham bid. But there isn't. At least, it is in East London.....Ho hum.
Complain about this comment
85 ++I don't get why Leyton Orient didn't bid for the ground as they would probably have been the most logical tenants.++
I have made this comment before but don't blame anybody for not scrawling through the mountains of stuff on The Internet about this. The Leyton Orient point of view is constantly buried - hence the need for responsible journalists to include reference to them in EVERY report about the issue.
The point made before is this,
Orient were consulted about bidding over a protracted period several years ago, I think at the design stage.
They were interested, but definitely could not secure agreement about the stadium being designed so football spectators are not required have to watch across a running track as is temporarily the case for Rotherham at The Don Valley, Stadium in Sheffield and Brighton & Hove Albion at The Withdean Stadium in Hove.
Both those clubs have plans to move away with fans complaining about the effect of the athletics track on spectating. I am not aware of any other professional clubs playing in such facilities - West Ham will be one out of ninety-two. It may just be a coincidence that not one of those others by choice shares facilities with athletics,but I doubt it. Hopefully no public money will be thrown away if West Ham opt to revert to a traditional stand arrangement, that should be determined in the tenacy arrangements - if as now seems likely - tenancy is gifted to West Ham.
Not being able to reach agreement over the design of the stadium was the reason, Barry Hearn, Leyton Orient's ultimate majority shareholder withdrew from negotiation/discussions about occupancy before the Stadium was built.
That is when these issues should have been resolved!
Complain about this comment
I and many others I know are not happy about this decision at all. The club (West Ham) has never consulted its supporters about this proposed move and there will be major disgruntlement about having to watch football every other week from behind a running track.
The club is on a very slippery path and this could all end in tears post 2012. By then it will be too late, there will be no going back as our spiritual home, the Boleyn, will have been sold. It is going to be a bloody disaster for the fans. I have supported West Ham through thick and thin (more often thin) for 50 years and I never will stop supporting them, but I will stop going to matches if we move into that athletics bowl in Stratford.
I can imagine Spurs supporters are very pleased with this decision though.
Complain about this comment
This stadium site will be Spurs soon enough. They won't even have to take it to court. Here's how it works.
Upton Park isn't full by any means most match days. Lots of tickets available, prices prone to dropping when necessary.
Now, the club has gone and taken a stadium with DOUBLE the capacity. So tell me why anyone needs to worry about renewing their season ticket?
To my mind, there's no need to hand over the hard earned too quickly. The Hammers might be getting relegated, might not. End of the day, it's hardly champagne football, is it?
So why make a rush of it to get a season ticket? Or book suites? I'd be looking at buying tickets for select fixtures and then it's wait and see until the stadium deal is sorted out.
Until fans can get into the ground and see for themselves what the views are like from the various seats, it's crazy to spend money in advance with West Ham.
So now, you have to wonder. If enough people take this view - and why not? - we'll get to see just how deep the pockets really are with Sullivan and Gold.
A dip in season seat holders would tighten the tap on their cash flow and they need every penny they can grab just now. When they took over the club a year or two back, they went and mortgaged the future to pay for the present.
Below is an excerpt from an interview done by Mihir Bose with Sullivan, not long after he took over the club. If you're a West Ham fan, this is scary. If you're bank manager minding Newham borough's funds, it's alarming. If you're a journalist who had time to dig through details and didn't find this, shame on you:
"But as Charlton, waited the West Ham deal was finally done, with Sullivan and Gold getting 50 per cent of the club with an option to buy the other half in four years’ time. I understand they paid an initial £20m, of which £5m has gone to reduce the bank loans, the rest to the club.
The last time West Ham changed hands in 2006, when Bjorgolfur Gudmundsson bought the club from Terry Brown, their debts were £20m. Sullivan has inherited debts of £110m: £48m owed to the banks; £40m to other clubs – including £22m to Sheffield United for the Carlos Tevez fiasco – and a further £12m loan West Ham took out in December. That was borrowed by pledging 70 per cent of next year’s season-ticket money and 60 per cent of the following season’s.
“They had to borrow this money to stay alive,” says Sullivan. “There is virtually nothing more to sell. The shirt sponsor paid 75 per cent of his fee not just for this season but for two seasons. The club have been robbing Peter to pay Paul – selling the future.”
So here's a club on threadbare finances already, borrowing 40 million quid and facing a potentially dangerous drop in it's short term revenue because there's just no motivation right now to renew season's tickets. And it's already spending money from year's ahead, so it has no fall back position.
If relegation occurs, this club could easily do a Leeds or Southampton and plummet quickly into the lower leagues or administration. And West Ham are intended to be the financial backbone of this bid.
This deal doesn't look done and dusted by a long shot. Daniel Levy and Spurs just need to sit quietly and see if they don't get offered the site back again some time soon.
Complain about this comment
kikujiro wrote:
Funny to hear Leyton Orient fans bleating about West Ham encroaching on 'their' patch. Were they not based in Clapton before deciding to uproot and move into West Ham's area? If so, why should West Ham's ambitions be limited by the narrow self interest of Clapton Orient?
Grow up kikujiro, the O's have been in E.10. since 1937 when things were different. Football was a proper sport then, and still is today to a much higher degree in the lower leagues than in the PL where it is nothing but a business supported by high powered overseas backers and overpaid overseas players.Therefore, our move 74 years ago bears no relevance to your daft comment.Orient's 'narrow self interest' is about our very survival and you may have to think about the same thing when WHU end up in the Championship, playing in a half empty athletics ground. (The thought fills me with untold joy!)
The whole idea was given no real thought by the OPC, Lord Coe, Boris Johnson, Uncle Tom Cobley an'all,I cannot see it being workable,neither can I understand why Hammers fans would want to move there all. Upton Park is a top stadium with real atmosphere, it is the spitual home of West Ham, utter madness to shift. Maybe with good fortune, Leyton Orient will hopefully have the last laugh.
Complain about this comment
Orient fans should be asking why Barry Hearn only protested about West Ham moving to Stratford and not Spurs to the football authorities.
Especially when West Ham are already in close proximity and even after the move would still be in Newham, formerly the London Borough of West Ham.
Whatever he was up to it seems to have backfired and the PL used it to wash their hands and not properly looking into their rules on encroachment.
By the way how is the latest Spurs loan player doing at the Orient?
Complain about this comment
Legacy; something handed down or received from an ancestor or predecessor.
What part of this don't Tottenham understand?
Good for West Ham.
Complain about this comment
COYI!!
I don't understand why Spurs would want to move in on West Ham territory, stay in Tottenham, afterall that is the name of the club.
It just seems that Spurs want to always get one over on West Ham. Hopefully now we can concentrate on the Olympics and then enjoy a proper multi-functional stadium that everyone can enjoy not just Spurs fans.
Complain about this comment
So, when West Ham sell their existing stadium, will the funds go towards paying back the £40m or will it go into their coffers? Will they compensate Leyton Orient?
Complain about this comment
Blimey! the comments are upto 133! I've only read upto 99 so will have to read the rest and comment later. But for now hear are my responses to some good (imho) posters (way!) above.
#90. At 08:26am on 10 Feb 2011, jim hogg
Excellent point regarding practicality for use as an athletics venue and the fear Athletics will end up the poor relation in the multi-use aspect of the reconfigured stadium. At most football grounds you’re not allowed walk on the pitch let alone throw a hammer or a javelin!
#92. At 08:39am on 10 Feb 2011, noelhall
Admittedly as far as what is out there in the public domain the West Ham bid does look a bit light on detailed figures whereas the Spurs bid appears to have clearer sense of costs and returns to the tax payer. But leaving that aside 20 days of athletics a year if that is true is will be such a fantastic legacy.
#96. At 08:52am on 10 Feb 2011, mcfarlaneuk
I feel for you in terms of having the running track and the sense of West Ham biting off more than they can chew but I think you are being a bit pessimistic. Karen Brady did a brilliant PR job of portraying Spurs as some sort of evil multi-national corporation looking to burn down a rainforest while portraying West Ham as some kind of non-profit community based organisation. The reality is the West Ham owners are doing it for money reasons too. So I'm sure even if you 'only' get 40k to 45k average gates at say £20 a ticket it will still make money.
#98. At 08:56am on 10 Feb 2011, monkfish1960
That is a valid point about the attendance figures for athletics as far as how great will it be watching an athletics event in a stadium less than a third full. So I guess we better hope this country can win the bid to host some other major athletics competitions such as the European or World Championships but how often do they come around? I guess the main thing is that in 50 years’ time the track that Usain Bolt broke a world record on will still be there.
#99. At 09:07am on 10 Feb 2011, JGTSpurs wrote
You are right on the money on every point mate. I never wanted to leave WHL either and I agree with your sentiments about how Spurs have been totally misrepresented. The facts are bids were invited and in the end only Spurs and West Ham came forward so the decision should be made on the relative merits of the two bids and nothing else. The only thing I would say is that I thought Levy had some cheek in saying 99% of Spurs fans were behind the move; what he really meant was once Spurs have moved to Stratford then 99% of fans will follow as they got no choice!
Having said all that good luck to West Ham and yes they will crow about it but I hope the ‘Brady Bunch’ will start to ease off all the sanctimonious rhetoric about how they’ve honoured the promise made in the Queen’s name.
Complain about this comment
As a Spurs fan I am very pleased with the decision. I wouldn't be very happy if I was a West Ham fan though...unless of course you suffer from claustrophobia.
Complain about this comment
At 10:27am on 10 Feb 2011, norfsider wrote:
Ha Ha you nutter, thats one hell of a conspiracy theory
You do realise how much money will be raised by naming rights
Complain about this comment
Spurs bid was better for more people, as it would help athletes giving them not only a year round stadia but also a fund to develop future athletes, it would have bought jobs and regeneration into 3 of the poorest areas of London and wouldn't cost the tax payer any more money.
Spurs never attacked West Ham's bid, yet that's all they have done to Spurs, in my eyes they've lost a lost of credibility from their mud slinging. Even their mock up (wheres the running track gone?) and the public loan been papered over by Spur's "Corporate Crime" or whatever rubbish Brady was spewing.
Facts are, well done to West Ham, you now have a stadium with no toilets or facilities, a pointless running track (because we all know athletics only happens outdoors in the summer - as does cricket), and an atmosphere completely different to Upton Park. I can almost hear it now - the silence of 40,000 people not being heard whilst they sing about blowing bubbles.
I don't think Spurs should have got the stadium, what i'm really sad about is 500 mil spent on a stadium that regardless of who won the bid needed money spent on it to make it worth while. I'm sorry to atheletes, but you have to be honest. No one is really as excited by people running and throwing stuff, as they are by team sports like football and rubgy etc. They should have saved us all a lot of taxpayer money and just added a running track to new Wembley (as old Wembley had one). What kind of legacy is a stadium that does nothing for athletics after the games? Are West Ham going to give money to help kids become hurdlers or shot-putters etc? I doubt that very much - Lord Coe et all have made a mockery of the British Taxpayer, their legacy will be the waste of money, resources and talent that the 2012 games brings, and the desolation that will follow.
Good luck to Orient, hope you're not made extinct by a club moving on-top of you (less than a mile right?), still as you'll soon be playing them, you won't have far to go for a local derby...
Complain about this comment
I guess the athletics folks will be pleased but it seems neither set of fans actually want to move to this Olympics staduim. Generally this has been a total farce and rather sums up certain issues in this country.
Anywhere else would have sorted this pre-legacy out before making a bid for the Olympics in all likelyhood!
Complain about this comment
Bob F - surely anyone with a shred of common sense can see that a dedicated athletics stadium available to athletics all year round is a better legacy than letting athletics use the Olympic Stadium for the grand total of 20 days a year.
Anyway, let's see how long it is before West Ham start muttering that the running track isn't working and that they're going to have to look at other options.
Complain about this comment
Stade De Paris looked ok last night for the France V Brazil game.
It's not the stadium that creates atmosphere, its the crowd
Complain about this comment
++95. At 08:49am on 10 Feb 2011, kikujiro wrote:
Funny to hear Leyton Orient fans bleating about West Ham encroaching on 'their' patch.++
No dispute, when Orient could no longer play in Clapton they looked for alternative venues and even played two home games at Wembley in 1936 or 7. After a time at Hare and Hounds off Lea Bridge Road - where Leyton FC have just folded, they moved to Brisbane Road on a nominal rent, thanks to the then and still land owner the local council. Currently the stadium is let for the playing of Sport for £1.00 a year with the arrangement having about 90 years of a renewed tenancy to run. However the lease has been sold on by Leyton Orient, to raise income to cover debts and they have another two or three years free use of the stadium with I think the option of a 10 or 15 year tenancy at £180,000 per year and further reviewable renewal possibilities thereafter. Many Leyton Orient fans were dissatisfied that The London Borough of Waltham Forest allowed the lease to transfer from the football club, but it has happened.
The fact was the football, even at the level Leyton Orient play, could not be sustained by commercial operations related just to football and needed the subsidy, first of the low rent, from the council - who have, as do other local authorities always subsidised the playing of football. Thanks then to the former rate payers of the old Leyton Municipal Borough Council, latterly subsumed into The London Borough of Waltham Forest, and their former poll tax payers and now council tax payers who continue to contribute to the finances of Leyton Orient, but presumably get a return of trade, employment, sports and leisure opportunities for their residents.
Now as to the encroachment, it is not the "our patch" argument exactly but into the "vicinity" of another member of the Premier or Football League according to the rules of both those organisations - for ultimately commercial reasons as well as the reason for not taking the club away from the traditional supporters. That was the Wimble/Milton Keynes Dons supporters situation and does not apply in the same way here. For West Ham to move from one part of the old East Ham Borough to the furthermost part of the old West Ham Borough but still within the current London Borough of Newham is not taking the team away from the supporters any more than Orient was taken away from it's supporters in 1936/7 when they moved from Hackney to Leyton and less so when Arsenal moved from Woolwich to Highbury or Millwall from The Isle of Dogs to Bermondsey.
The objection is primarily commercial and should have been recognised by The Premier League, who have strangely, already given approval and I believe opened themselves up to a legal challenge.
Complain about this comment
I am a distant WHU supporter: rarely get to games, so no axe to grind either way in terms of where those games are played. Some facts though;
The Olympic Stadium is closer to West Ham's first original ground (The Memorial Ground) which was occupied for around 7 years before the move to The Boleyn. The site of the Memorial Ground is close to the next tube stop - West Ham !!! - from Stratford. In 1904 WHU moved from a ground in West Ham to a ground in East Ham. Both Hams are now in Newham. Stratford has always been part of West Ham.
Tottenham in Newham is, was and always has been an absurd concept for any serious football supporter of either club. Nothing to do with economics or running tracks or who organises concerts. Just an absurd idea.
Leyton Orient were originally at Clapton (further away from Startford/West Ham). They now reside in the Borough of Waltham Forest and have never had a ground in West Ham or Newham. If they were smart at Brisbane Road they'd be looking to exploit the possible growth in interest in nearby football.......by looking to continue their present surge in form in order to exploit future beneficial possibilities, for example, arranging complimentary kick-off times for those days/weekends when both they and West Ham are at home. It'd certainly be more usefel than all the belated whining I've read on here from their supporters!
Complain about this comment
@alphaharps
'It's not the stadium that creates atmosphere, its the crowd'
That maybe true, but how can you get an atmosphere if you 4000 crowd dotted around a 25000 seater stadium?
All of this distraction for the Olympic Stadium is giving Arsenal a small chance of beating us next week...
Complain about this comment
@Adrian a serious question?
do you really believe that following relegation and the ever increasing debt that the current owners are saddling the club with, West Ham will ever be in a position to engage the reconstruction etc that is in their plan?
in the current commercial realism that banks are operating in. who the hell is gonna lend XXXm to a club in the championship that signed another batch of big money players Jan 2011 when it was rooted to the bottom of the premiership. for a 60000 capacity stadium!
Complain about this comment
Spuds are well mashed today hahahahahahahahahahaha
Complain about this comment
++88. At 07:59am on 10 Feb 2011, kamagloire wrote:
For those who dispute the 0.3 difference between West Ham, Orient and the Olmpic Park.
DISTANCES BY ROAD:
Orient-Stratford: 2.1 miles
Upton Park-Stratford: 2.4 miles
Orient-West Ham: 4.2 miles
Spurs-Stratford: 7.1 miles
(Distances: AA route planner)++
Maybe, by road. - Last week I walked from Leyton Stadium - the traditional name of Leyton Orient's ground, to Stratford station around the Olympic park and the boundary is "hard" and horrible. It took just about 30 minutes and after 15 minutes I was adjacent to the Stadium. By the time the Stadium is open it will be shorter across the Olympic Park.
For me the further distance to The Boleyn is irrelevant, the relevance is that the nearness of The Olympic Stadium will overwhelm Leyton Orient.
Complain about this comment
if you want to sample the atmosphere of watching a football match in the sterile conditions of an athletics venue? get yourself down to watch Brighton before the end of the season. years they have had to endure that wilderness
Complain about this comment
I feel really sorry for genuine West Ham and Genuine football fans that they have got this. As a Rotherham united fan i can promise you this decision will ruin the club and that is speaking from personal experience. Running tracks around football pitches just do not work.
We currently play in the Don Valley Stadium in Sheffield and for me and all the other Rotherham Fans i know this has really ruined the match day experience. Yeah Don Valley has better facilities and Yeah i can get a beer in the ground but the atmosphere is horrendous, The players hate being so far away and it has seriously effected our play at home. I would return to Millmoor in a heart beat. I would much prefer to have to get my beer in the pub and go to a cold dank toilet if it means i can sit close to the pitch, have a great atmosphere and enjoy the Match.
It is a massive massive mistake on the part of West Ham United Football Club
Complain about this comment
100.
++I find all of the O's related comments hilarious. Everyone is related to having a dig at West Ham...++
Rubbish, I wish West ham well except on those rare occasions they play Leyton Orient.
I have a sneaking desire for O's and West Ham to meet in the ridiculously named "Championship League" so we can have some derby games.
I remember seeing O's play West Ham in the FA Cup at O's in the 60's when Orient got their largest crowd.
Otherwise I wish West Ham and especially their fans well.
Tribalism is one of the dangers of sporting support, I suspect no supporter is immune any the less than supporters of political parties or other organisation, which is another subject for investigation by sports journalists.
Complain about this comment
What i find incredible about this is that there is going to be an athletics track around the outside which is never going to attract a meaningful crowd ever again once the Olympics finish. We do not have a golden league meeting over here because the Brits quite simply don't support the sport in big enough numbers. They will turn up for something like the Olympics in the way that non football fans pack out pubs at World Cup time.
If our bid hadn't promised to keep the track then Uk athletics would have had a brand new 25,000 stadium at Crystal Palace both appropriate in size and, rather like the new Wembley, at the sport's spiritual home.
Seb Coe and his friends have saved face but this is of no use to Athletics in general in this country.
Complain about this comment
Orient going under is just silly talk. They've faced bigger challenges than this in the past and the West Ham effect has been and will be minimal. Sticking the boot into West Ham and talking of "war" is nuts. West Ham fans love Orient - the clubs are joined by the 58 bus route. Why has this issue started an Arsenal /Spurs rift. By all means milk it for what you can get - new hockey stadium, maybe even compensation from somewhere, but stop ruining one of the few decent relationships in football.
I'm pretty sure anything like 5-10% of the that 4000 crowd average are Hammer fans - I've been to about half the games a season myself. Do you really want a 5-10% drop in match day revenue? If West Ham fans have to travel to Stratford for a game anyway, they may not see it as out of their way to catch an O's game when West Ham are out of town. There's every chance the extra publicity for football might raise your gate average.
Get positive and come to the table. If nothing else mmaintain the special relationship with the fans. Let's not forget Dagenham either - we could all be Championship sides one day.
Complain about this comment
As a spurs fan I'm glad we made the bid for the stadium probably meant west ham had to be more competitive in there bid! I'm also glad we didn't make the concession to keep the track just to win the stadium.
I would have hated to have a track between me and the football I'm paying to watch, people can say it doesn't make a difference but anyone that actually goes to matches know full well it does.
I'm assuming they can't rip out the 25,000 seats that were put in permanently which are at a very slight angle compared to seating in football matches. so does that mean the first 25,000 west ham fans will be furthest away from the pitch than any other stadium in the country? or even europe? Sorry but I wouldn't pay for that.
Good luck :)
Complain about this comment
I'm sorry but the article is misleading. The headline says decision made. But then the OPLC themselves no decision is being taken until Friday. If a decision has been made without due process then this decision could be open to judicial review. The article should be taken down or clarified before further speculation takes place
Complain about this comment
i was hoping to open a binocular shop outside the stadium so i can sell them to the championship team supportters...
Complain about this comment
Well done to the olympic committee... for ruining Leyton Orient. It's not fair that Leyton Orient should be forced out by David Sullivan and Karen Brady. The Premier League and the FA have been looking to kill off a smaller, less well known club for almost 20 years now and the Olympic Commitee have done it for them. Modern game 1 Common sense 0.
Complain about this comment
I Think anyone with half a brain will realize that the running track can not stay after more than a decent pause. As an Athletics venue it will be quickly realized that meetings for that sport will just not be viable. At this point no one in the world will care what you do with the Athletics track because it will be acknowledged for the white elephant it was always going to be. West Ham will then be free to do what they will with the stadium although the only problem there is, what are they going to use for money to do it - shirt buttons ?.
Complain about this comment
The difference between Spurs and West Ham, is that Spurs would easily be able to attract 50k plus crowds at full rate, whereas West Ham only be able to fill the ground with heavy discounting, unless they have a major step change in success on the pitch, and turn into a regular top 6 side, and this would have much more of an effect on Orient. Spurs effectively even charge people to go on their very long season ticket waiting list! (I'm not a Spurs fan btw)
The Olympic stadium isn't some artitectural masterpiece, it's a largely temporary structure with few permanent facilities, so West Ham will end up having to largely rebuild it anyway, and will still be lumbered with a track. Athletics in the meantime will be left with a legacy stadium which it will have little access to, and will be far too big.
Complain about this comment
++Orient fans should be asking why Barry Hearn only protested about West Ham moving to Stratford and not Spurs to the football authorities++
Hearn can and no doubt will speak for himself, but the meaning of what I heard him say is that we don't want any other club moving into the vicinity of Leyton Orient but if it has to be, Spurs is least worse.++
Complain about this comment
It's a big possibility that after a while West Ham will want to remove the running track and add more seats, and they'll probably get their way.
Complain about this comment
131 again.
++By the way how is the latest Spurs loan player doing at the Orient?++
M'Poku is brilliant, his cross lead to the goal that got O's into 5th Round of FA Cup - home tie against the Highbury deserters!
Kane, early days yet, shows promise, it is great to see a tall, hard working, lively centre forward. Spurs seem to have their youngsters spread all round the lower leagues, they apparently do not run a reserve team, right now. Lets hope the MPs Inquiry, looks into youth development and why there are so few English Players in the top level of club football.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/committee-to-hear-from-lord-burns-on-football-governance/
Complain about this comment
on the Orient issue
does anyone have info about actual distances between the two liverpool clubs grounds and also the two Nottingham grounds as they are both a stones-throw, Sheffields grounds also seem quite close too, and these are 6 of the oldest clubs in the country who seemed to all have survived alongside neighbouring teams for decades
Complain about this comment
I'm a West ham fan and not overly happy with us being landed with this White elephant.
If the government of the day had accepted West ham’s initial interest years ago at designing a stadium that could accommodate both athletics and football with removable seating over the track then may be it would have been a good idea.
That’s why I think Tottenham had the right idea, flatten the white elephant and build a football stadium - oh and revamping Crystal palace which West Ham also offered years back.
As to this atmosphere at Upton Park, I was at the Birmingham game last week and been to several others recently. There isn't any because this West ham team is so poor - That said for the five minutes when they gave us something to cheer it was fantastic. I don't think this new venue will every be able to recreate an atmosphere like the current Upton Park, the one all fans who was there remember recently was when West ham played Ipswich in the playoff semi final - it was electric.
I also sympathise with the O's and Dagenham, that said below is an interesting read on how fixtures are arranged and I guess West ham will be paired with Orient rather than Dagenham going forward. But to fill the stadium West ham will have to significantly reduce thier ticket price as they can't even fill thier current ground for many games and this can only have an adverse impact to the other clubs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2009/06/secrets_of_the_fixture_compute.html
Complain about this comment
Orient, if your club is so great, then your amazing fans will stay loyal and pass down on generations, it's down to you to do this and maybe stop being bitter about the fact you are not good enough to have a home in this stadium. As for Hearn threatening legal action, he'll get the same treatment as what McCabe did in regard to 'Tevezgate' or bette known as 'bitterwegotrelagate(d)'.
We deserve the stadium, we are already based in East London, we are a big club that lacks funds that should have that sorted should we stay in the Prem and the OS running is done as effiently as we're being told it will be. We're also being told we will be no further away from the pitch than we are at Wembley. But even it was further (which I hope it isn't for the sake of SuGo & Brady's reputation) then we've all seen world cup games and champions league finals played at this big stadiums that have running tracks, so its not so bad. Besides, the fellow hammers, that are saying UP is our home, it has history, we'll lose the atmosphere. Well firstly, they'll be no need for home if we don't have a club and secondly times change and move on, thats life, and finally what atmosphere?! I'm 20 years old, have a ST in the STBL stand and the atmosphere has been no where near as good as it was during the great escape season when I first started going, and before that it was alot better when i went to the odd game.
This is definitely great news for us, stop listening to all the Spurs lot saying how it will kill us, blablabla, thats a silly tactic to try get it themselves, and theyre just bitter we will have a better stadium than them.
COYI!!!
Complain about this comment
Feel sorry for hammers fans being so far from the pitch which will inevitably destroy the usually good atmosphere that is produced at Upton Park.
However what I find very strange is that the Olympic committee have the authority to give West Ham the go ahead when so much public money will be spent. Can Newham residents expect council tax hikes when many can already not afford them as they are? And will certain existing public services in the borough suffer as a result of the cash shotfall that will inevitably occur?
Complain about this comment
Blair's vanity is starting to come home to roost. Really looking forward to the tax hikes and derelict venues in 10 years time.
Complain about this comment
Despite the obvious draw backs I'm happy to get the stadium, if the vote is as expected tomorrow. Its clear that a running track will be detrimental to the atmosphere and we will struggle to fill 60,000 as we currently stand. For me this about the furture of West Ham not the present. The new location will enable fans to travel to games much more easily and the larger capacity will allow going to games to be more affordable. Taking my boys to the game while my partner shops in Westfield Centre, then meeting up to have a meal before going home is very appealing. As a sports fan I also like the idea of sharing with Athletics and Cricket and being a hub for local and national sports. My real hope is that in 4 or 5 years West Ham will have established itself financially and be in a postion to redevelop the stadium to accomodate the track and a football team, something along the libes of the Stad de France. The situation at present is far from ideal but I do hope we generate the crowds and atmosphere to make it work.
Complain about this comment
After the Olympics the stadium will be a white elephant. It is far too big for national athletics and will have no atmosphere if no more than the normal few thousand suppoters turn up. Athletics, is likely to lose support as a result. It is a great pity that this wasn't thought out prior to the construction of the stadium. The Premier football clubs should have been given the opportunity to help finance a proper multi purpose stadium with retractable terracing and removeable pitches as has been seen in Canada and the US. This then could have been leased to them.
As it is, if the stadium isn't converted then it will be a continuous drain on the public purse.
Complain about this comment
#162
++does anyone have info about actual distances between the two liverpool clubs grounds and also the two Nottingham grounds as they are both a stones-throw, Sheffields grounds also seem quite close too++
I know a bit about Liverpool from when I lived near there.
I think it is a five or ten minute walk between Anfield (nearest to the Everton district) where Everton played when they were formed, to Goodison Park where the Everton club moved, leaving some behind who became Liverpool Football club.
I anticipate it was pretty contentious when they split but the clubs seem to have grown up almost simultaneously and remain both large sized with them swapping as senior to each other in the success and attraction ratings.
I do not think there is a similar comparison between West Ham and Clapton/Leyton Orient. I have the impression that although at the beginning of the First World War Clapton Orient was the senior London professional football club, a height they never regained after League Football restarted following the war, by which time Arsenal had moved to Highbury.
I don't know about things in Nottingham and Sheffield although believe Notts County are the oldest remaining football club, or have a similar claim to fame, Sheffield Wednesday were also early into The Football League before any London club joined, I suspect.
Complain about this comment
As a spurs fan i need to respond to some of these bloggs: spurs were relegated in 74/75 but the chances of that happening again seem very remote. i remember it well as my first two games were at home to Palace then home to Bolton, both 52,000+ sell outs, could we fill a 60,000 seat stadium? easily. arsenal fans should stay out of this discussion, as i read the other day your last home fixture of 1993 attracted 25,000 in the premiership, great!
West Ham fans don`t want us on their patch, most understandable. good luck in that stadium. you will need it as it might slowly kill your club, the new ground at arsenal is possibly the worst for atmosphere in the premier league, god knows what yours will be like with a track aroud it!
Karen Brady`s claim re furthest seat being closer than wembleys seems suspicious to me, all spurs fans remember very well the views at the old wembley, and i was staggered when i took my seat at the new wembley for the first time, as to just how close you are. mind you would you belive anything the three amigo`s at west ham say?
come on you spurs :)
Complain about this comment
I'm sick of the whole Leyton Orient issue....they play in Leyton, Stratford is in the old London Borough of West Ham, before it became Newham.....simple, get over it. We never play on the same weekends at home anyway because of policing and being a mile or two closer will make no difference. The words Jumping, Bandwagon, Hearn, A and On come to mind.
Complain about this comment
#164
++Orient, if your club is so great, then your amazing fans will stay loyal and pass down on generations, ++
This issue has been partly dealt with earlier in the response.
It is the up and coming and casual fans who will be drawn to The Olympic Stadium.
The reason I began spectating at Leyton Orient in 1962, their only season in the "old" Division One was because I was of age to go alone. I also took my 3 year younger brother. I was 13 years old.
Leyton Stadium was just a bit further from my home in Walthamstow to the Bakers Arms where I went alone or with friends to the swimming pool and the cinema.
The big reason, was I could see the top players in the land and particularly Jack Kelsey who I saw in my first ever match.(I fantasised about being a goal keeper.) Within a couple of months I saw Orient beat Everton (in a season they won the League) and Manchester United with Law and Charlton et al (my then heroes). My highlight moment, ever remains seeing Norman Deeley, playing for Orient formerly of England and Wolves and an FA cup final, "nutmeg" a stranded Denis Law.
By then I was hooked, and Orient were my team and still are. It will be the same for youngsters today, and also there will be the added attraction of being at The Olympic Stadium where we will by then have seen televised all those fabulous things we anticipate next summer.
For me although I had by then been taken to Highbury, White Hart lane and Wembley Stadiums, a few times,each of those places were outside the areas to which I could regularly travel.
That is why Orient will lose out over the long term by any Premier League club moving to Stratford with probably, as a bonus the best transport connections(almost) in the UK.
Complain about this comment
I don't care about the "athletics legacy" and the almost dictatorial nature of the demands and pressure from the athletics fraternity.
I do however care about any ongoing cost to the taxpayer and about getting something back from our money that has been wasted on yet another white elephant.
Council executives who have been entertained by a club, using council tax money to subsidise such a project looks extremely iffy to me, especially if people don't want their taxes spending in such a way and in a time of austerity; after all isn't top flight football rich enough?
Good luck to West Ham making a go of it and making it into a decent football stadium with an actual football atmosphere, something that has generally being a challenge for grounds that retain the oh so precious athletics infrastructure (for events people don't want to go to watch enough to cover their cost).
Complain about this comment
If the decision has been made based purely on keeping the running track then West Ham must sign an undertaking that they will never dig it up. Bet they wouldn't do that.
Complain about this comment
Am i the only one wondering if the whole Spurs saga is coz Levy 501's knows he can't afford to build the stadium they have planning for coz of the new Europe football law that is about to be introduced? It would cost Spurs so much they would be out of pocket even more and therefore not aloud to play in Europe. Or am i getting the new rules all wrong?
Complain about this comment
Re Newham Council, one of the LOFT(Leyton Orient Fans Trust) ctte wrote to them to state our concerns and enquire why they were considering lending WHU £40mm as a key part of their bid. The reply was as follows:
"As soon as it was set up 18 months ago the Legacy Company saw that the Olympic authorities' view of the stadium's future - that it should be turned into a 22,000 seat athletics venue was nonsense.
They agreed with Newham's view that this would result in an empty stadium that would not support itself financially and that would be irrelevant to Newham residents.
Similarly, Newham is not interested in having a large stadium dedicated only to football and concerts, which the great majority of Newham residents would either be uninterested in attending, or unable to attend because of the expense. This is what the Tottenham Hotspur bid will produce.
That's why Newham has put together a consortium that will involve West Ham United, Live Nation (the Concert Promoters), UK Athletics, Essex County Cricket Club, University of East London and others. Our proposals are for a stadium that will be used for a range of sports, for range of types of music and - most important - for a wide range of community activities that all Newham residents will be able to take part in - for free. Newham's sports clubs will be able to use it. We could, if we want, have Newham schools holding their sports days - egg-and-spoon-race and all - in the Olympic stadium. The Newham Festival, Under the Stars, Bonfire Night fireworks etc etc - any of our events - could take place there with free admission. We will also be able to give hundreds of thousands of free tickets to our young people for top quality sports and music events that they would never be able to afford to go to otherwise. We will also be able to control what goes on in the space in the stadium that isn't needed for events - space for education and training, for community groups etc etc."
The following is the comment from the Leyton Orient fan who posted that letter from Newham Council.
"This is what we have been fighting for over the past 12 years and that we now can see within our grasp. This is why we hope the Legacy Company will select the Newham/West Ham bid and not Tottenham's."
From
http://leytonorient2.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8856&sid=2b6edd20451da577ff9ce950447c48cb
Message timed 10.07 10th February.
Complain about this comment
- Was there a hoo-ha when the (Woolwich) Arsenal moved to Highbury?
- Can we please have hundreds of Hammerettes at half-time like they used to? Maybe some marching bands like in the U S A ?
- Premiership tickets are difficult to get hold of and any way cost £50, any change to this for a London club has to be good. WHU could easily fill it for all matches with 20,000 "cheap seats" at £15
- Is it true that Stratford tube station employs someone in the summer to re-direct foreign tourists looking for Shakespeare's birthplace?
- See you all at Wembley for the FA Cup Final, I hope we get Arsenal!
Complain about this comment
@Snaresbrookhammer
We have said this before, we will not just 'get over it'. We have a proper threat here and we will not sit idly by while there is a severe possibility that we could fold. I'm sure you would do the same if it was you guys who were in our position.
Complain about this comment
Yes!Yes!Yes!
I am so happy W.Ham won the bid.
It is their fans loss. Having the running track will destroy the great atmosphere well known at Upton Park.
Spurs are North London. I dont care where we go as long as the post code has an 'N' at the start.
The even biggest losers in all this are the Gooner Clowns who thought we were leaving North London. Fools!
Go back to South London where you came from.
Complain about this comment
Originally coming from Stratford I agree with the likely decision.
Putting the public money issues aside; how can Spurs claim any Olympic legacy if they plan to dismantle the Olympic Stadium and remove its running track.
In terms of giving the stadium to a football club; I don’t believe West Ham will own the stadium they will rent for it or lease it like Manchester City and the City of Manchester stadium.
Coming from Stratford I know the majority of the local population support West Ham. When West Ham was founded, the then borough of West Ham covered a bigger area including the current borough of Newham hence New Ham.
Let’s not forget West Ham have not played in West Ham for over 100 years. The Boleyn Ground is in Upton Park. Upton Park and Stratford are both similar distances from the current district of West Ham. West Ham Lane runs from West Ham to Stratford. West Ham police station is in Stratford need I go on.
With regard to Orient; fans choose their football team for many reasons but friends and which team their parents supported are foremost amongst the selection reasons. Unbiased or floating supporters will go to watch another team based on quality of football, the league they are in and who they are playing not how close they are, especially when we are talking about 2-3 miles difference. Finally how many Leyton residents support West Ham versus Leyton. My father is from Leyton and he supports West Ham.
I too will miss the Boleyn Ground at Upton Park but not the traffic jams and lack of parking.
Finally on the running track question - It didn’t bother me at the old Wembley! Big athletic events generally take place in the summer and football teams only play at home every other week so there will be plenty of time for other events at this shared venue.
Complain about this comment
LOFC_Ed
If it goes ahead, and it is a big 'if' even if the WHU/Newham bid is approved then what about some creative thinking.
Your principle issue is the proximity of a premier league to Orient would seriously undermine the future of the club.
WH principle issue is being able to offer cheaper premier league football to its supporters due to increased capacity potential (I'll believe that when I see it).
Yes Orient want more fans = more revenue, but I think in the short term you would just like more supporters on match day. After all once they are there they are buying drinks, food and you are sowing the seeds for future visits.
Would a potential tie up with WH be of interest where for example a Full price Olympic Stadium ticket was coupled with an adult voucher or a 2 kids voucher for Orients next home game. Could be a free or cut price. Depends on the financial aspects. Most wouldn't be used by WH fans but many would or be passed to people who would use them. Perhaps first timers who don't have that PL attachment.
This is not about Orient getting second class casual fans courtesy of WH's largesse. This could be the clubs speculating to accumulate. Some might not repeat but some would. It might actually re-light the affinity that Hammers fans used to have with Orient.
Personally I don't think the O's would have to suffer, but where's the harm in getting the short term benefit anyway?
It's about thinking out of the box a bit. We are all faced with a new future whether we want it or not. As others have said we might not be PL much longer and who knows, before long Orient might have to give out vouchers to come and see the Hammers!
That said, I'm sure if you start any campaign against the move and target disgruntled WH fans you will sure to get a healthy petition up as many don't want it or suspicious of it. But we can't do too much about it. We have to recognise that as fans we are only required for the purchase of merchandise and vocal support on match days. Other than that the club is a millionaires plaything - as so many are.
It is difficult not to be cynical. Fact is, if the prices at the OS are not vastly more competitive than WH's current pricing, and if the stadium experience is not up to scratch, and if the team are in the Championship, then Orient stand to gain a good few more supporters on match days!
Complain about this comment
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12419445
Feigns shock,
Adrian Warner ignores Leyton Orient's east London legacy again and does not deal with Barry Hearn's comments about Judicial review -Today's London Evening Standard on the issue of Premier League breaking own rules and yet he said:-
"#76. At 01:47am on 10 Feb 2011, Adrian Warner wrote:
Orient fans, thanks for your comments. I didn't mention Orient tonight on the blog because it was a breaking news story and I didn't have much time to write it as well as complete our reports on radio and TV. BUT I did mention the club on BBC London Radio 94.9 FM tonight and BBC London TV has covered the Orient question in a special report on the effect of the 2012 stadium on the Games. We understand the story, don't worry and we are covering it."
Please demonstrate it.
BBC made no reference to these points in Today Programme, that I heard or on News 24 at about 12.50 or on BBC tv News at 1pm.
As I said please demonstrate what is said in message 76.
Complain about this comment
Anyone else sick of hearing about the "moral obligation" Spurs have from a West Ham fans? Especially considering their chairman's business interests?
I hope Spurs don't get it, it'd be a hell of a wrench to leave Haringey, for the area and the fans. I honestly think they were only invited to bid to ratchet up West Ham's commitment. However, I hope Hearn sticks it to the OPLC. It's a bloody disgrace they way they've been treated throughout this.
Complain about this comment
@ Inoffapost
'before long Orient might have to give out vouchers to come and see the Hammers!'
I think that is just wishful thinking for us! Still, we can only hope!
Complain about this comment
Most stadiums in the Championship seats around 20,000. West Ham will be the envy of the Championship in 2012-2013 season when they have the largest ground in the league and it will be the ONLY ground where every home and away supporter can be accomodated - eventhen you might find empty seats LOL!!!
Seriously, the OPLC should have a groundshare agreeement between WestHam and Spurs. Because while West Ham's propsal made sense, why should they be the sole benefactor of public money to fund a private sport?
Complain about this comment
The even biggest losers in all this are the Gooner Clowns who thought we were leaving North London. Fools!
Go back to South London where you came from.
======================
it's almost 100 years since we moved. During that period we have had more "history" and success then your lot, which is the reason why you couldn't afford to rebuilt WHL and had to resort to "public money" by bidding for the OL.
You're welcome to continue staying in North London as a shadow of Arsenal which has been FACT for generations and will continue unless your club come up with the money privately to build a bigger stadium to increase gate receipts.
Now go tell your chairman you want WHL redevelped into that world class "Naming Rights Stadium" lol...
Complain about this comment
@ twisted.
You can spend as much as you like on stadiums,youth training and infrastructure under the new rules on spending.
Complain about this comment
Finally on the running track question - It didn’t bother me at the old Wembley!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A day out at Wembley though is a bit different from going to watch your team week in week out. The excitement of a cup final or play-off final helped gloss over the fact that some of the views from the old Wembley were garbage compared to what you get without a running track. Hence why almost every team in europe with one has either built a new stadium or is on the process of doing so.
Complain about this comment
I have been a Tottenham Hotspur supporter since the age of five,and I totally disagree with the proposed move to startford. I would also like to comment on Ms Bradys comments accusing Mr Levys decison to move to Stratford being purely Buisness based.Mr Levy has allways been a Tottenham Hotspur supporter. Ms Brady and Mr Gold not so long ago were both directors of Birmingham City Football Club. They then became directors of West Ham football Club. Surely this was a buisness based decision,where is their aligance to any football club,and how can you say this was not based on business. I would like to suggest that this was purely a business decison based on the prospect of the opportunity of gaining the use of the olympic stadium and no other interest in West ham Football club other than business infact they have both proved they no aligance to any football club by their actions. They were obviously aware of the prospect of west ham moving into the olympic stadium and saw this as agood business oppotyunity. I would like to wish them the very best in their new business venture. WE ARE TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR N17.
Complain about this comment
I am a Chelsea supporter but i must say that if the whole issue is looked at objectively as someone who looks at and loves athletics the spurs bid was the best.
the only reason that they did not win was so that the olympic committee could save face on a promise of a legacy for athletics but surely commence would show that a revanped crystol Palace and a stunning olympic park where people will go too day week after week and investment in grass roots athletics is a far better legacy than what will mark my words will be a problem stadium in years to come.
Complain about this comment
#189
Far be it from me to spring to the defence of G&S but just to clarify, as far as I know Sulli tried to buy WH before they got involved with Birmingham. He is a fan of the club and Gold was on the club's youth roster - apparently. Their interest in the club is well known, so no surprise to as to why they tried so hard to get it when it became available. It probably qualifies them as fans in the same vein as Levy.
As to the business angle. Pretty long shot. They MAY have had the OS in mind all along, but given the financial problems WH at the time of purchase it would have been a massive gamble. Nothing ventured nothing gained I suppose. Nevertheless, at the time of the takeover they were constantly quoted as saying given the extent of WH finances it was most definately NOT a business decision.
Acquiring the OS will also be a massive gamble - financially, as well as the 'hoped for' long term benefits. It may be why they are millionaires and I'm not, but I wouldn't be taking it (the gamble I mean).
Complain about this comment
As a West Ham supporter, if you weigh and assess the moves, you find a balanced reaction to it, because there's positives to be gained and huge negatives.
The positives are, mainly that Tottenham did not increase their own financial power with it, and now West Ham with a 60,000 capacity stadium, would be able to comfortably compete financially with huge income of money from supporters, hopefully now the players can keep our interest in the club pulsing by surviving relegation.
The negatives however outweigh the benefits of such a stadium transfer, as Tottenham's directors and connected people of high influence insist, afetr the Olympics in 2012, the stadium would be a largely unemployed stadium, tottenham's plan seemed the more sensible decision in simple footballing terms, they would retain the 80,000 capacity of it, and with the tracks removed, the atmosphere supplied would be intoxicating and daunting, it would be an illustration of Tottenham's footballing progress.
With West Ham planning to retain the tracks, we'd be fifty metres roughly away from the pitch, and the sound waves wound be terrible, our voice carried would disperse quickly and it won't be nearly as feverous and dazzling as it is at Upton Park, where we are at close range to the pitch, the special sense that the West Ham supporters bring would be non-existent, and teams would rapidly lose fear of arriving at the Olympics Stadium.
I think West Ham should have planned better because there's no disguising that retaining the running track hinders the support levels, and the burden on Newham Council, to supply a loan of £40m would be staggering, as I live in this borough, the poorest, slummy area in London, I don't really appreciate the borough loaning such money, we need a garuntee that West Ham will survive, I don't want the club losing its matchday voice with the running track, and playing in the lower tiers while Newham deteriorates increasingly.
Lastly, people might want to consider the civil disorder and unrest there would be if these two fierce rivals were housed closely, people have long forgotten their heated rivalry but it's been brewing recently with renewed hatred in light of these discussions of who should take the Stratford stadium, matchday between these two would provoke problems, it's much better Tottenham continue representing North London's worst club, behind Arsenal and Barnet, and a shadow of West Ham's unheralded supremacy.
Complain about this comment
Do we need athletic's in stratford after the Games ??
5 miles from stratford we have really nice athletic tracks indoor and
outdoors , Lee Valley Athletic centre ( picket Locks ).
500 indoor seats ,250 outdoors ( Never sold OUT )
Do we realy need an other drain of public money ??
Complain about this comment
Few further points from this
So West Ham's bid is the best is it, as it fufils the Athletics legacy?
Really??
1. Because between August and May (and possibly end of July for friendlys), West Ham will be playing at home - they're going to have to very very carefully schedule matches v athletics events.
2. So West Ham are keeping the track, that sorts out Athletics doesn't it. Oh no, what about the Javelin, Shot put, Discus and Hammer? Where are they supposed to take place?? Surely West Ham won't particularly appreciate massive divots in the playing pitch created by those objects...
3. Are you seriously telling me that the whole £500million spent on this venue has gone into the actual stadium? And that Spurs's bid to change that stadium to another that suited football was going to destroy £500 million worth of building? Somehow I think that's wrong. Fairly sure that among that £500 million would have been major road, railway improvements for example, all of which would have been retained.
4. Still don't get how a club that's in debt, is able to be loaned £40million by a council, during a time in which ALL councils are having to make significant cuts in all aspects of the services they provide
Complain about this comment
#24 ewanwhoelse "Irish had got their act together then Croke Park could have continued with Gaelic sports, football and rugby."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
While Lawnsdowne Road (as was) Stadium could be modernised, the FAI and IRFU had to get special permission from the GAA to play there on condition the agreement ended as soon as the Aviva Stadium was completed.
Also, I read somewhere that most of the Italian groundshares are because the stadium is owned by the city council but aren't the Milan clubs going to be in different stadia in the next couple of years as one of them (I think AC) is moving out?
Also, as a Watford fan, if any of the stands at the OS are being removed as part of this, we're looking to replace our East Stand!
Complain about this comment
38. -, Mogwyth wrote:
The loan is not public money, is prudential borrowing and it comes from the bond market not the public purse.
West Ham will not be the owner of the stadium, it will be jointly leased by the club and Newham council who will get a half share of the stadium and share of profits just for setting up the loan.
--------
66.BlanchflowersBoots wrote:
- Actually the £40m loan comes from Newham Council and unless they have a secret Icelandic bank account, the cash will come from council taxes- ie public money.
-------------
My wife is a public finance accountant who deals with sort of thing, the treasury will raise the £40 million for the council by issuing bonds, its called prudential borrowing look it up!
66.BlanchflowersBoots wrote:
- As with all leases this money will have to be paid back. I cant believe that West Ham supporters truly believe that tickets will get cheaper. You need to earn more money to be able to pay back a mortgage, not less. If West Ham get relegated and the gate receipts do fall ( no more PL income either) then will Newham have to step in again with more cash just so they dont lose their original investment?
=============
Gold and Sullivan are personally underwriting the whole thing, unlike the spurs bid that allegedly involved money from shady off accounts!
66.BlanchflowersBoots wrote:
- Alongside £40m from Newham, ( in addition the £500m tax payers contribution) how much will Brady and Gold invest in the Stadium? Their investment figures have been conspicuous by their absence
That will be the money from the sale of the Boleyn Ground. And you do know that your new stadium was being totally funded by loans don't you? which suggest your shareholders were going to trouser the money from the sale WHL.
====================
As for ripping up the track in 5 years aint going to happen West Ham have said the track stays and the OPLC have said all legacy promises made to get the O/S will form part of the lease.
Complain about this comment
Its probably the correct decision to give the Olympic stadium to West ham and not Tottenham. I still doing think it will work for West ham, the pitch will be far from the football supporters and it will be hard for them to watch the match.
Only time will tell if it was the correct decision
Complain about this comment
Are Orient fans serious that anything dramatically changes should Spurs or West Ham move into The Olympic Stadium?
Orient have not played above the 3rd tier of English football for almost 30 years with attendances rarely reaching five figures and averages in that time closing to 5k than 10k. Even if success on the field was to come crowds will be limited to the small capacity Mr Hearn has imposed on the club.
Orient have lived in the shadow of both West Ham and Spurs for decades and survived despite drawing minimal support from the local area. If either club moves into the Olympic Stadium it would have the same minimal impact on The O's should one or both clubs ever increase the capacity of their current grounds. Had Orient built a 20k ground with ambitions to fill it then maybe they have a point but with 10k stadium I am sure they will have no problems filling it should they ever be successful on the pitch, likewise should they continue at the same level I have no doubts their 3.5k hardcore will remain with them for decades to come, so what exactly are they losing out on?
As Mr Hearn has already stated his desire is to actually move closer to Olympic Stadium it is hard to assume Orient are being as opportunist as both Spurs and West Ham are, whilst possibly alienating the 100's of West Ham/Spurs fans who venture to Brisbane Road when their sides play away.
Complain about this comment
186 Neova - Well done - for reinforcing my love of Spurs. I am Islington born & bred, went to Highbury Grove School and took a lot of rubbish for supporting the other lot. Its because of PASSION, you would'nt get it. I still go to the odd AFC game with mates; away games are a chore with Arsenal, awesome with Tottenham (though I will admit to enjoying the trip to Newcastle last week). THE LESSON: The Emerates simply cannot compare with Highbury for atmosphere; big open bowls disipate sound up and out. The OS and the wretched track will truly destroy the special atmosphere appreciated by Hammers fans (especially under the lights). COYS
Complain about this comment
Spurs, forget the OS its gone, the Northumberland Development Project is QUOTE "not viable" from Daniel Levy (though this is not the view of David Lammy MP on R4 this evening). Lets deduce it is stalled at least, and would take a couple of years to develop at best.
We need a 60,000 seat modern stadium, preferably sooner rather than later, with good transport links, and be in North London to appease most people.
Why can't we explore leasing WEMBLEY stadium, at least in the short term whilst other build options are developed?
Complain about this comment
Not a good decision. Really, who cares about athletics as a major spectator sport. A revamped CP would have been just fine. Perhaps all is not lost though, West Ham could invite Leyton Orient to groundshare in the OS a bit like Inter and Milan. Those League One Derbies would then have a little spice to them.
Complain about this comment
Can someone explain how T20 matches will be played at the OS with a running track in place? Isn't the outfield going to clash with the running track?!
Haven't read all of the above but agree with some I have. The bias shown by the BBC to West Hams bid, both on here and on TV has been shameful. Karen Brady has been allowed to let the public 'believe' that it's a waste of £500 million and Spurs reply hasn't been given the same exposure?!
Complain about this comment
Re. earlier queries regarding club distances in other Cities, Forest and County are separated by the River Trent, just a quick swim away. Even closer are the Dundee clubs, who use their own changing rooms at their own grounds on derby day.
Complain about this comment
Firstly it is not confirmed whether West Ham have won the bid or not? That will be confirmed in March.
With regard to Leyton Orient fans moaning? What's that all about then? We are moving within the old borough of WEST HAM which is now all part of Newham (oh I forgot we are already in Newham!) and are not moving to Leyton are we!
Complain about this comment
Am I the only person to notice that on the artists impression of West Hams new ground there do not seem to be any black supporters.
When will we learn?
Complain about this comment
@205
I was going to say something, and should have - well done! Also, I'm not sure whose attacking and defending on the pitch as the defence would be awful either way. Looks like Blackburn have come to town so maybe we think they're coming down with us.
Complain about this comment
Towerhammer
With regard to Leyton Orient fans moaning? What's that all about then? We are moving within the old borough of WEST HAM which is now all part of Newham (oh I forgot we are already in Newham!) and are not moving to Leyton are we!
Not far off though is it? We are worried about our existence, and because of that I think we have a right to express our opinions. At least people are FINALLY taking notice of 'little Leyton Orient'.
Complain about this comment
I think one thing that all the Spurs Wums are conveniently forgetting when they talk about west ham crowds is that we were still getting average gates of 30,000 when we were in the championship for 2 years in 2004 and 2005...
(Would the spuds get the same if they were watching championship football)
Therefore the talk of "10,000 fans" is utter nonsense. We could have sold 80,000 or 90,000 tickets for 2 Play off finals and fa cup final at Millenium stadium as well, so we certainly have the fan base.
The new stadium will appeal to many fans in east london and essex, in no small part due to the accessibility of the ground (anyone that tries to get to Upton Park on matchday will know this is a massive plus) Ticket prices will also be reduced accomodating families that have otherwise been priced out of going. My friends and family currently sit in other parts of the ground so will also be an ideal opportunity to all sit together.
Im not even 100% for west ham moving to the new stadium but I can understand reasons for moving.
The other thing I would say is that no-one can really doubt that G and S have west hams best interests at heart in this. I mean, they are multi multi millionaires so dont exactly need the money, as some people are suggesting that is all they are in it for.
Finally - a message to Tottenham fans. You are not, I repeat NOT staying at WHL or even in the area, so cant understand your negative views on moving.
The extra 200 million involved in cost of moving (wherever that may be) will (hopefully) ensure you drop down the table in the coming years once 'arry leaves you in a financial mess, as he always does and takes over England.
Complain about this comment
( I wrote this elsewhere - meant to put it here)
Spurs fans in favour of the Stratford move know full well the club has minimal interest in doing half of what West Ham are proposing. The site is excellent and allows you to build a worthy church that'd one up Arsenal - that's all Levy et al are concerned about and to their credit, they are practically saying so. If you do move to Stratford - Great! New East Enders over night and I'm sure you'll do us proud.
To those fans who want Stratford, check out Schalke's and others stadiums in Germany. The Emirates is already out of date. Sliding pitch, sliding roof, central score board all allows for regular use of massive coach parking, sports such as ice hockey and concerts with thousands of fans no where near the grass, earning Spurs money all year round, in and out of season with no effect on football (and we're talking about the devastating effect of a track).
If Spurs have the money, anything you could build at Stratford would be 20 century by comparison. Look elsewhere - no stadia in Britain would compete with a Schalke type stadium. Go and find the space and unlike Arsenal, have the vision to look away from North London.
Complain about this comment
Ok can someone explain to me that if west ham are borrowing 85 million of public money then using that money to then buy the lease for the olympic stadium then coverting it to use football with the rest, exactly when do they pay anything for the stadium? It seem to me they are using OUR money to buy OUR stadium off us? Am I the only person that thinks this is a massive scam?
I'm just disgusted at these times of hard ship that millions of pounds that could be helping to pay for medicine,mental heatlth care and jobs etc are being given to a millionare that owns a private football club so he and karen brady can "have a go" at making millions of pounds off the back of PUBLIC money to put into there pockets and west hams.
You dont see the BBC reporting it that way do you? I don't suppose Lord coe and UK ATLETICS being tied up in the deal have anything to do with it do they? I wonder who got the rights to show the olympics then? I'm sure lord coe has nothing to do with that either,
BIGGEST SCAM I'VE SEEN IN A LONG WHILE.
Complain about this comment
@208
Why WHU fans have to resort to cheap abuse on a previously well debated forum is beyond me.
The figures you quote re: attendances may well be right, although I think that relegation to the Championship (should it happen) would not only have a significant bearing on your gates but would also have a significant impact on the clubs revenue from TV, advertising and sponsorship.
However, you state "The other thing I would say is that no-one can really doubt that G and S have west hams best interests at heart in this. I mean, they are multi multi millionaires so dont exactly need the money, as some people are suggesting that is all they are in it for."
Gold & Sullivan have very chequered careers as 'businessmen', have no historic links to WH and Gold himself is on record in interviews with Mihir Bose (BBC) completely contradicting the WH Bid.
So I personally wouldn't be placing to much trust in the intentions of those two gentlemen.
Complain about this comment
I bet Scunthorpe Fans are drooling over the thought of those £10 pie and pint combo's
Complain about this comment
BBC bias continues.....
Quote: "Spurs' plan has been widely criticised because it would involve knocking down the stadium and building a new one"
The Spurs proposal involves a similar restructure to that always envisioned and similar to that of the WH proposal.
The only difference is around the retention of the track at the OS or the creation at an alternate location (Crystal Palace). The BBC always manage to overlook this.......
Complain about this comment
I just wanted to add my voice of disapproval for a piece of breathtakingly poor journalism. I know journalists are not always the most balanced of people, but I personally had come to expect balance and accuracy from the BBC. There's a reason why I get my news mainly from the BBC - because I trust their reporting of facts to be relatively neutral - at least as neutral as can be.
This article and others I have seen blatantly misreporting on the figures involved have led me to look elsewhere for my news. It's lazy journalism at best, and blatantly biased, propaganda-driven journalism at worst. In either case, it shouldn't be excused because it's an internet blog; and I hope to see the BBC standards improving. I'm very tempted to make an official complaint - the level of misreporting here is breathtaking.
Complain about this comment
As a Spurs fan for many years I'm well pleased about the decision but as for the West ham fans - the best stadium you would have would be without a pitch on the inside so you don't have watch that dreadful team.
Complain about this comment
Let's address some of the inane comments on this story
1. West Ham are not getting the ground for free, they are merely leasing the ground (much like Manchester City - the richest club in the world as they are widely touted) - again a potential white elephant turned around which has actually provided the taxpayer with value for money when the potential for substantial losses was the most likely outcome
2. The loan from Newham Council is just that - a loan. The fact that Newham council will be using the facilities for events other than football have been ignored
3. West Ham have always been from the area covered by Newham Council. They are not moving into Leyton Orient's 'manor' - they have always shared this area of London and will continue to do so. Why all this assumption that Orient supporters will dessert the club? This is quite a derogatory statement. Just over four miles separate the two clubs and has always provided the core support of two clubs quite happily. If you do a quick search, by road Brisbane Road to the Stratford site is only 0.2 miles closer than from the Boleyn Ground (this is the name of the ground to anyone who knows anything about the club)
4. Barry Hearn's major concern is that West Ham provided facilities for a high profile boxing match last season, and in all likelihood the Olympic stadium will do so. He doesn't give a toss about the football side of this argument - his involvement in boxing is far more lucrative to him
5. The West Ham bid is supported by the largest live entertainment organisation in the world - Live Nation. This is not mentioned when discussing Spurs bid talking about all their partners.
6. relayer69 - Gold has a historic link to West Ham - he lived 50 yards from the ground until in his 20's and also played in the youth team.
7. The West Ham bid and their treatment by the BBC has been far from complimentary. Anyone watching reports on the BBC has shown a belittling attitude towards it. 5 live last night, no West Ham supporters, just Alan Sugar - wonder who he was behind?
Is this the best outcome for all involved? Probably not. However the world is an imperfect place and the decision has to be respected
Complain about this comment
I'm happy that the stadium has been awarded to West Ham out of the 2 clubs in the running.
However strictly speaking the stadium is in Leyton Orient turf and I hope they are compensated in some way.
I am a fan of Harry Redknapp but the Spurs proposal was never going to be backed by an Olympic committee as they would never compromise on using Crystal Palace.
Despite of what anybody thinks of West Ham the right decision was made.
Complain about this comment
@216
Psychohammer: Have you seen the number of articles on the BBC in the last month with Karen Brady indulging in comments such as "corporate crime" about the Tottenham bid? Poor West Ham. What a boardroom!
Complain about this comment
Questions that need asking.
===========================
1. To what extent does the recommendation to award tenancy to WHU and LBN impact on existing ventures in east London and their existing and continuing legacy?
2. What consultation has there been with those likely to be most affected by the recommendation, including residents and followers of the football clubs involved, including Leyton Orient?
3. Does the outcome of the consultation with fans and residents enable there to be confidence that the recommendation takes sufficient regard to their best interests and concerns?
4. Considering these three points, might the five criteria be flawed by not including them, and how can the ultimate decision, now take proper regard to those issues?
=============================================================
I am disappointed that these process questions were not thought about by any of the journalists present when the BBC broadcast the recommendation. Questions might also be asked about the Premier League and Football Association's oversight of the change in location of a football club and the impact on other football clubs and the reputation of the organisations.
Such questions now need to be directed to The Government Ministers and London Mayor who will accept or reject the recommendation, who also need to be asked questions about the management, timing and oversight of the implementation of the decisions.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The day west ham football club died R.I.P.
and a lot taxpayers money with it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Complain about this comment
This is a crazy decision based purely on the greed of the owners of WHUFC and the mind-boggling idiocy of Newham mayor, Robin “Smiler” Wales.
As a resident of E6 for almost 30 years, I have been concerned for many months that Stratford is seen as the be-all and end-all so far as the local borough are concerned and this move will leave Upton Park as yet another ghetto within the borough, where the only boom industry is in the opening of pound shops and fried chicken outlets.
I’m also concerned that Newham have seen fit to lend WHUFC the money to help with this move – a private company not renowned for their fiscal prudence – would they lend such sum to the likes of Tesco? And doing this at a time when budgets for local services are being slashed shows a total disregard for the local residents.
I support Darlo and whilst I have no axe to grind with WHU as a team, this move will be most damaging to Leyton Orient – a fact seemingly overlooked by those making this decision, not to mention the vast majority of the media. The silence from the FA on this move is utterly shameful and it is time they stepped up to the plate and reminded everyone of their rule on such moves...
Complain about this comment
I have been reading the comments over the last two days and would just like to correct a couple of things.
1.Leyton Orient football Club is just .94 of a mile from the Olympic Stadium.
2.West Ham United are 4.25 miles from the Olympic Stadium.
It's a bit like Manchester United moving home to the A406 roundabout at the start of the Barking Road.
Leyton Orient's concerns are not about the 4500 people who turn up to games this season or even next it's about the next generation of would be Orient supporters who could be enticed to watch West Ham with discounted tickets due to the inability to fill the Olympic Stadium.
The community programme that LOFC has run very successfully for years could be lost to this bigger club.
Sad day for all Orient supporters just hope we are all wrong and the club survives
Complain about this comment
Whilst I am concerned with Leyton Orients plight, The fact is if they got the stadium with a reduced capacity(25000) they could not afford to rent the stadium, hence why premier league teams where invited to bid.
If Barry Hearn decides to mount legal action would this still be the case if Tottenham had won the bid?
If Tottenham had won the bid,would Westham be in a situation to mount legal action against Tottenham on similar grounds to Leyton Orient?
And of Tottenham;
what have you ever done for the East London community? Other than see an opportunity to gain a cheaper alternative of a stadium when the East London area is finally getting some welcomed regeneration?
Finally, If Spurs are intent on becoming an East London club, the Boleyn ground could be available in the next few years.COYI
Complain about this comment
To those complaining about the lack of coverage on Orient, please see Friday night's programme at 6.30pm where our excellent reporter Matt Morris looks at the effect of the West Ham decision on the club and also on Crystal Palace, who hope to move to the "Palace" athletics stadium. We can't report on your issues every night but our sports team is very much aware of the views of Barry Hearn and of your fans and we are covering the story. Not sure how we can give you any more evidence of this. Please watch the programme and see. best wishes.
Complain about this comment
225. At 11:23pm on 11 Feb 2011, Adrian Warner wrote:
To those complaining about the lack of coverage on Orient, please see Friday night's programme at 6.30pm
A link to the programme would help, I am not in London TV area.
Complain about this comment
Here you are for iplayer link to BBC London news programme for Friday: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mj67 or go to the BBC London website. Easy search on google too. Hope to see it okay.
Complain about this comment
The link is here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00ycv3v/BBC_London_News_11_02_2011/
Adrian, your claim that a segment from one programme is adequate coverage of our plight is at best disingenuous. You are the journalist who wrote in a relatively recent blog that West Ham are the closest professional club the the Olympic Stadium (here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adrianwarner/2011/01/a_decision_on_the_stadium_and.html ).
You have consistently failed to criticise both the inept planning and design of the stadium, as well as ignored the fact that the Premier League have potentially broken its own guidelines in allowing West Ham to move to Stratford. I look forward to viewing the programme, and hope it is more even-handed than anything that you yourself have managed to produce.
Complain about this comment
#225. At 11:23pm on 11 Feb 2011, Adrian Warner wrote:
To those complaining about the lack of coverage on Orient, please see Friday night's programme at 6.30pm#
I've seen it now thanks, better than nothing but v brief and does not mention all the issues so public still can't understand complaint about disregarding Orient's legacy and the lack of consultation with those affected and flawed criteria for selection of bids, plus other stuff.
There needs to be a reference to O's and Crystal Palace being affected in every report, written and broadcast and some detailed stuff and proper questioning of Premier League, FA, Ministers and MPs Select Committee Members as the way issue has been handled is an example of the dominance of money over sport and fans which is what that Select Cttee is Inquiring about.
Also it is National issue and it also affects Essex which had a load of coverage of Stadium business in Look East at 6.30 but no reference to other clubs dissatisfaction giving false impression it is a done deal, so if there is legal action it will then be harder for journos to explain.
I presume Radio Coverage is also missing these vital points, I listened a bit to Five Live today and heard small references but the issues have not been properly opened out in any BBC Broadcast and ignored in lunchtime news on BBC 1 TV and just before on rolling news prog.
Complain about this comment
Oi, Warner! The iplayer don't work in Sydney.
I'm also blaming you for Cyclone Yasi, the floods, the earthquakes and the Perth bush fires too. Pull your finger out!
For all those people concerned with Orient, why haven't we heard you this loud for the last 20-30 years? AND, there is nothing to stop you writing your own articles on the football board and posting them across multiple teams, including Spurs and West Ham.
There ain't much on the Orient BBC board.
Complain about this comment
#230. There ain't much on the Orient BBC board.+
I don't know about BBC Boards apart from 606. Please give a hyperlink
Here are links to some I started that got almost no responses - one for a team in each of the top four divisions,plus my first 'article' about the 'event' of The House of Commons select Committee, which I think has ended up as the last but one page of the whole Internet, so not seen by many!
It comes just before this!
http://www.1112.net/lastpage.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A80848344
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A80849884
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/F20311348
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/F20311214
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/F20311372
Orient Fans tend to talk to each other on Orient Messageboards.
Now might not be the time to start as BBC are closing hundreds of web pages to save money, probably rightly to in order to focus diminishing resources on core activity and because of monopolisation complaints from other parts of media.
BBC is after all funded by a levy on everyone in UK who watches any sort of television in The United Kingdom (we can have radio for free) plus Government Grants towards the cost of BBC World Service, plus proceeds of Trading activities like magazine publishing and selling on programmes to other broadcasters and as DVD's to General Public.
BBC also has a large project to make it less Londoncentric with the production offices for many programmes moving to Salford (close to Manchester City Centre, although in that quirky British way a City in it's own right. British Cities are delegated thus, rather than just large towns as I think in the case of other parts of the world.
Anyway there is much dissatisfaction and disruption and cost for re-siting BBC staff as they all want to be at the centre of things which remains London. Pity Government is not more proactive in having central functions such as Parliament away from London. Manchester is nearer the literal centre of UK than London - especially when one considers geography of Scotland and Northern Ireland. London is not even in the centre of England!
What a ramble shall I leave this or delete?
Must finish with my beloved Leyton Orient, situated about 6.5 miles north east of the true City of London (somewhere near mansion House or Guildhall - not The palace of Westminster which is about 2 miles West of there) playing Bristol rovers today although before some supporters are meeting to see if there is anything more we can do to preserve the club beyond the next two or three years without it having to reform some way from its traditional area, which does now seem very likely.
There are media reports today of West Ham considering how they might fit temporary seating over the running track - there will be much more of that, other media suggestions of them ground sharing with Orient - the future is uncertain, we all may only have NOW!
Complain about this comment
Orient fans, it's true I haven't reported on the Orient issue much. That's because my colleague Chris Slegg gave it nearly 4 mins of TV (that's a huge amount of TV by the way in news and sport for one issue), pretty early on in the process for both our news programme and our special football programme Late Kickoff. here's the link. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/leyton_orient/9372145.stm.
We also looked at the Premier League issue early on. You will see that their board had a meeting about it and decided the Olympic Stadium wouldn't break their rules. I think Orient will have challenges (as I have also said on air) if West Ham try to poach new fans. But they didn't apply for the stadium and Barry Hearn is suggesting he make like to move into the hockey stadium after the Games so the Olympics aren't that bad. As somebody who watches all of his live football outside of the Premier League because my club is no longer in it, I wish Orient all the best. I think you will survive because you have what I call "real,fans" who are fans for life. Clubs with real fans always survive.
Complain about this comment
#232 OK thanks for the response.
My point was also that no journalist apart from perhaps Charles Sale in The Daily Mail seems to have asked the appropriate questions of the Premier League. None, as far as I am aware have asked, the FA, what action they intend to take to control the PL disregarding their own rules, or if they disagree how they explain the PL's rules have been acted upon.
The FA fobbed me off in an Email of the"nothing to do with me guv!" sort - you should speak to the PL and strangely they also referred me to the FL, which I suppose has some relevance because maybe they need to take up the cause of Orient and whilst Spurs were involved, Crystal Palace as well.
But, the main issue, and I was not paying attention before, has to be flawed OPLC criteria, which do not make reference to ensuring that existing legacies are preserved, which maybe more than just that of Leyton Orient. East London is a mature community with a vast wealth of social activity over several centuries. The way to have got at that would be for consultation with those potentially affected.
It is not too late for the Mayor of London, Sports, and Local Government Ministers to consider and act on those points. I see these as all areas for serious journalists(there will be a book or two in this eventually) to ask those questions.
Meanwhile, we can all ask our MPS and Greater London Authority Assembly Members to make representations on our behalf for delay in the final award of the tenancy until they are satisfied that existing any "legacy" damage is avoided or minimised and appropriately compensated for.
Another point for Journalists, and also for constituents to lobby their MPs about, is to seek to have these issues examined, as far as they relate to Football Governance(relationship between various football organisations and between sport and commercial interests) by the current House of Commons Culture Media and Sport Select Committee's Inquiry.
That will go on for several months and is to hear evidence on behalf of The Football League and Professional Footballers Association, at The Houses of Parliament on Tuesday 15th Feb at 10.45am
http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/culture-media-and-sport-committee/inquiries/football-governance/
Meanwhile the link to the 4 minute report mentioned by Adrian Warner seems not to work! I have tracked it down here,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/leyton_orient/9372145.stm
but cannot see why that should work for me now although the one in Adrian Warner's reply did not. The report was appreciated but it was late at night and my concern is that many reports about the Olympic Stadium, not just from the BBC, do not even mention Leyton Orient and the current situation as far as they have announced.
Currently that is that they are due to hold a press conference on Wednesday 16th February.
"Statement - Olympic Stadium
Posted on: Fri 11 Feb 2011
FOLLOWING Friday afternoon's announcement about the future of the Olympic Stadium, the club will not be making any public comment until a press conference on Wednesday.
Any media requests until that time will be politely refused."
from http://www.leytonorient.com/page/NewsDetail/0,,10439~2291212,00.html
Hopefully the BBC will broadcast that conference and produce a written report on the website as well.
Complain about this comment
Typical British COCKUP!
The future of the stadium (& its usage) should have been sorted out BEFORE they decided on the location where it was going to be built.
The location chosen was completey political, we (the public) only get what we deserve by allowing vested interest make these important decisions.
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS