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McLibel |
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Franny Armstrong's film, McLibel, ten years in the making, tells The David and Goliath story of the McLibel Two - Dave Morris and Helen Steel, who took on the fast-food giant in England's longest-ever legal wrangle.
Franny, Dave and Helen answered your questions about the film after it was first shown on BBC Four in March 2005. You can read their replies here.
Comments & Questions Following BBC Two Broadcast
Congratulations - what a fantastic and inspiring programme. It's also a great reminder to us all, particularly when McDonald's seems to be "loving it".
Mari Martiskainen, Brighton
The courage of Dave and Helen was inspiring. I too fought a libel action alone and unaided for many years so I know the personal sacrifices made by the two defendants. My battle was not against the multinationals but against a local charity in West London that used its charitable funds to try to stifle debate in the local community about the charity's activities by threatening legal action. One way or another I spent 15 years fighting for justice and the right to free speech. Unfortunately it was a lonely battle because local people were too afraid to speak up as they knew the possible consquences of "free speech". Many of us know the issues that Dave and Helen stand for but it is the libel laws of England that support the rich and powerful and sustain so much unjustified privilege. To hell with the sword of truth!
Lyn Hardy-Smith, Hastings
I hope someone can take up the issue of proper recognition for Dave and Helen's work and contribution by lobbying for a Queen's honour for these two very humble yet inspiring individuals. While Helen and Dave's achievement remains inspirational, on a personal level this documentary has helped me to recognise what true perseverance really means and why my family and I will not be visiting McDonald's and the likes in the future. Time to go back to basics, the way we knew it as a kid.
Prabhat Misra, Caddington
I've been eating McDonald's two or three times a month for the past four years or so even though in general I eat organic and do not eat processed food if at all possible. Why? Convenience and cheapness - I often am out and about in London, due to my work, and grab food at Mcdonald's. After watching Mclibel, which made me actually cry at the point they were talking about animals, I decided never to eat McDonald's again. Thanks for showing this programme. Dave and Helen seem amazing, and at the same time pretty humble.
Carolyn, London
I'm so glad I caught this programme last night on BBC Two. I thought it was fantastic. Well done Dave and Helen for all you hard work and effort and standing up for your principles. The documentary was compelling viewing. It satisfied and answered a lot concerns I already had about the corporation. The one negative point is that it was aired quite late at night. Programmes like this are of huge public interest and it have been should be shown in prime-time. We all have to consider the choices we make when buying food not only for ourselves, but for our children as well.
Nicola Prince, London
That pair of twits being sued by McDonald's - I can hardly believe them! I am a mother of three kids. A year ago I decided to cut out McDonald's, along with all the other fast food and takeaways etc just because we are following a healthy eating plan. You don't need to bad mouth big business! Just don't buy if you don't want to! I think McDonald's should have pursued them and made them go to prison if they did not pay up. I think it was an opportunity for the couple to be out of work and, yes, probably claiming benefits over this period (benefits paid by taxed levied by businesses, such as Mc Donald's). I feel they were just after publicity - to brighten their lives. Regarding the employee issues - if more businesses were run like McDonald's things would run smoother. They pay the minimum or above wage - if that is not enough that's the government's fault. That silly lady being sued worked for eight unsociable hours in a night club for less than £70 - why doesn't she bad mouth the night club too? People like them really get on my pip - nothing better to do than pick on thriving businesses. Go out you two and get a real job - what a pair of wasters.
Anne Waites, Weaverham, Cheshire
Having by accident just watched this programme, I was very impressed indeed and really think you ought to reshow at a time when children can view. After all it is the shameless exploitation of children that to a large extent this is all about.
Julie Morgan, Near Brecon, Wales
Fantastic. Dave and Helen, you have inspired me! I hope you and the film makers will add your talents to the anti-G8 movements in July.
Neil Scott, Bearsden, Glasgow
I just want to say thank you to David and Helen for what they did and are continuing to do. My son is 16 and I never took him to McDonald's when he was little, apart from one time when his cousin had a birthday party there. I remember the staff coming round to take orders of food from the children, "Chicken McNuggets or a burger" and he didn't know what to choose because he didn't know what they were. When I explained this to the staff, they were shocked and expressed sympathy for the "poor kid". How ironic.
Dale, Sheffield
Thanks for airing this on BBC Two. It is more than deserving of the wider audience and these are issues everyone should consider. Franny is due credit for a great documentary, but of course the heroes are Dave and Helen.
Peter Yeo, Bideford
Fantastic! What a lovely way to end a Sunday evening. Very uplifting and well done. I have nothing but respect to all of you.
Mick Canavan
Go and live in North Korea you sad communists. And thanks for wasting thousands of pounds of tax payers money in your case for something that 9 out of 10 people simply do not care about. It saddens me.
Simon Bowles, Doncaster
Well done David and Helen. You two should be the inspiration for our generation. You are undoubtedly the best thing since organic farming. You have the heart and soul of the 1960s when people would not lay down and be stepped on by corporations. I work for the T&G Union and tomorrow I am going to sign up as many local McDonald employees as I am able. Congratulations and well done.
John Stone, Exeter
Bloody brilliant and covered all the angles. True BBC quality.
Simon, Bristol
Comments & Questions Following BBC Four Broadcast
Dear David, Helen, Charlie and all the McLibel filmmakers,
I just wanted you to know that my husband and I went out and bought a digital box for our old-fashioned TV yesterday just so we could watch McLibel. It was well worth it - congratulations!
Karen Richardson, London
Congratulations you two. You have put the rest of us to shame. How you carried on under such duress I'll never know. I gained strength by watching the saga unfold. How on earth did you stay focussed? Whenever I have stuck up for principles in the past, I have never won, always been shot down in flames, always come off badly. Maybe it was because there were two of you that made the difference. What a shining example and role model you are to all of us. Thank you.
Lesley Rowe, Driffield
Dave Morris replies: People often wonder how we managed to get through the whole thing. It was a mountain to climb - but people climb mountains! In fact people do all sorts of things when they are really determined. We can all take inspiration from tens of thousands of people around the world - eg trades unionists, human rights activists, those opposing corporate control of resources etc - standing up for their views and their communities despite the most difficult and repressive circumstances.
We also benefited from having been actively involved in previous campaigns and movements in this country. Just before we were sued we were both very active in the anti-poll tax movement - a successful campaign of 18 million people refusing to pay the tax. This showed that an unjust law can be made unworkable by mass defiance and non-cooperation. Just like in our case. Thousands of people pledged to hand out leaflets that McDonald's were trying to ban. Over 3 million were distributed in this country alone during and after the trial, and they have also been handed out around the world in over 27 languages!
But we were only able to win the battle thanks to all the volunteers helping - with practicalities inside and outside court, with fundraising, with personal support (eg helping look after my young son), and also so many members of the public passing on their best wishes. Thanks and congratulations are equally due to all of them, and to all those campaigners who've distributed leaflets...
I think that this type of litigation against big companies is good, but the plight of Helen and Dave vs McDonalds highlights the waste of public funds, funds which could help the poor they claimed to be standing up for.
The programme did have it's good points, but these two people should really be ashamed at the way this has affected their families.
CN Mathews, Hartlepool
Helen Steel replies: It should be noted that we did not initiate the court case, McDonald's served the writs on us. Therefore issues about the waste of public funds (I presume you mean court time since we didn't have public funding/legal aid), should be addressed to McDonald's and the legal system.
In fact we made this point ourselves, early on in the proceedings we argued that the case against us was a waste of time and money and should not have been allowed. We argued that multinational corporations should not have the right to sue for libel, in common with the restriction placed on governmental bodies, in order to allow free debate on matters of public interest. This is particularly important given the massive advertising budgets of corporations and their power and influence in society.
We also argued that instead of the requirement to provide first hand live witness evidence to support criticisms made, a defence of 'reasonable belief' should be allowed. This would have enabled us to rely on previously published material such as World Health Organisation reports which detailed the links between high fat, low fibre diets and obesity, heart disease and cancer. Instead the Court had to spend around 30 days listening to arguments and opinions from nutrition experts and others on this issue.
The case also took so long because we were being forced to prove matters of basic common sense. For example documents established that McDonald's paid wages at or a few pence above the minimum wage, yet we were still required to prove this was 'low pay', which meant weeks of evidence and argument on the subject.
Protection for freedom of expression far from costing public money, would result in a considerable saving - by preventing the courts from being clogged up by multinational corporations which choose to sue in the UK courts because of our notoriously repressive libel laws. It would also prevent people's family lives from being dominated by lengthy court proceedings.
Well done for bringing this to our screens. I've followed the case in the papers almost since the beginning, but this documentary really brought the struggle to life in a way news reporting cannot.
Chris Byrne, Edinburgh
Despite reading and watching this case through its twists and turns I still find myself popping into a McDonald's some mornings for an Egg McMuffin. This concentrated dose of McLibel may make me inclined to make my own - in which case my money will go to WalMart/Asda instead. Sigh. Any farmers' markets open 24 hours?
Rich Johnston, London
Helen Steel replies: Our choices are limited because even though food is central to our everyday lives, ordinary people have virtually no control over its production and distribution. Land and resources are controlled by a minority of the population, and run for their own benefit and we have no real say in what is produced or how. And we are heavily influenced in what we eat by the massive marketing campaigns of corporations like McDonald's.
We need to create a new society run by and for the benefit of everyone. Until then we are always going to be forced to make uncomfortable choices between what we perceive as the lesser of two evils (much the same as voting!), rather than a positive choice about what we really want. We encourage everyone to get involved with campaigns to benefit their communities and to work towards a society where everyone is involved in taking the decisions which affect their lives, communities and workplaces.
This was an excellent programme, showing the true face of "the clown" that is Ronald McDonald. I was therefore disappointed to see a positive story about the chain this morning on Breakfast News, especially as it immediately followed the look at the papers and mention of the lead story in the Independent about UK food waste and associated environmental and social impact - something that McDonalds are clearly associated with.
Please put McLibel out again on BBC One or BBC Two so that it gets to a far wider audience. Well done to the filmmakers, and please keep up the good work of educating society of the true facts behind the multinational corporate brands.
Rob Cartwright, London
An outstanding public information programme. Can it be reshown on a BBC mainstream channel in the near future? And can thought be given to addressing the wider issues of the dominance of multinational corporations in view of the lack of capacity to call them to account for their actions?
Keith Pimm, Newcastle-upon-Tyne
I thought the McLibel documentary was excellent and I really feel it should be repeated on BBC One or BBC Two so that more people can see it. It was truly inspiring and shows that it is worth standing up to bullies even if it is an extremely powerful multinational company like McDonald's who are doing the bullying. It is an important message that needs to be seen.
Louise Kleboe, London
Dave Morris replies: You're absolutely right! Bullying comes in many forms, from the top of society down to the school playground. Multinational corporations and governments have enormous control over our lives and our communities. Just because they have money and power they think they can lord it over the rest of us. But we don't have to accept this. Ordinary people can organise ourselves where we live and where we work - to support each other, to speak out and to fight for our rights and interests as residents and as workers.
History has shown that campaigns and movements can have a real impact on our society - for example winning the right to free education and healthcare, the welfare state, workplace rights, freedom to protest, abolishing slavery and apartheid and so on. But the price of these victories is eternal vigilance, as those in power want to take many of these gains back.
If we want to see things improve we all have to get together and take responsibility for our lives, our environment and our planet - let's face it we can't trust politicians and companies to improve anything. Their obsession with their own power and profits is what has caused the problems in the first place! It's not surprising that fewer and fewer people are voting. In the last 30 years a whole range of social movements have grown throughout the world. People are responding to social and environmental crises (wars, poverty, pollution, injustice and oppression) by trying to get more control over the decision-making and resources. An incredible 2 million people marched in London as part of huge global protests against the military invasion of Iraq.
Instead of the greed, power-lust and propaganda of those 'on high', let's spread peace, justice, understanding, common sense, co-operation, sharing and grass-roots solidarity!
How inspiring Helen and Dave are; I had no idea how difficult it was for them. The interview with Charlie about not having enough toys and not spending enough time with his dad was a particularly poignant moment.
Yasir, Reading
Dave Morris replies: Although it was exhausting and stressful, it was also very empowering to be involved in such a struggle. Inside and outside the courtroom we were having a lot of successes, and people were rallying around to support us in so many ways. Even my son Charlie benefited in some ways, for example from friends of mine taking him off on all kinds of trips and holidays!
While not wishing to deny anyone the right to fight for their opinions, it saddens me when cases like this are given such profile, and court time. We have been fighting for 16 years for an admittance of negligence and compensation and while we have had legal aid, it's cost us a great deal more than money.
M Treadgold, Melksham
I think it is paradoxical to say the least that a programme about how the right to free speech is curtailed in this country by the law should have been shown on the BBC channel with the smallest number of viewers! What are you frightened of? When is it going to be shown on BBC One or BBC Two?
Josephine Bacon, London
I have spent the past three years in the High Court fighting two multinationals. One case was thrown out because of perverse decisions by the court, the other case is being defended by the same QC as the McLibel case. I have been in hospital for the past two weeks suffering stress and hypertension. To be honest, I was thinking of giving up, but this programme has convinced me to fight on to the bitter end. I believe that I too will only get justice in the European Court of Human Rights, as I personally believe the UK courts are biased and corrupt. Multinationals and money control the verdict, and like the McLibel two I am unable to secure legal aid for my defamation claim against a multinational.
Michael Johnson, Grays, Essex
Dave Morris replies: If the McLibel campaign has inspired other people to stand up and fight for what's right too, then all the effort would have been worth it many times over. But we hope that those who are acting in the public interest, on whatever the specific issue is, can get support and publicity. That's why people set up the McLibel Support Campaign at the beginning of our case - to ensure that the arcane and unfair legal dispute inside the court was turned into a public battle fought in the court of public opinion.
After all the comments in previous years about dumbing down within the BBC (and often well founded criticisms too), this is the BBC at its best. An excellent, challenging programme, which was very moving and informative; and one to which you have wisely given the necessary time to cover the broad depth of issues. It would have been so easy to give this subject just 30 minutes. For me, this is by far the top documentary of 2005, amongst very many excellent contenders. Congratulations to all concerned.
Jeff Ball
We've been struggling in a battle against a bullying employer which uses all its resources to flatten us. We watched your programme after a particularly negative and disheartening day when we are told by a solicitor that we haven't a chance in hell. It was a great inspirational battle of the individual fighting through against great odds. Thanks for the belief you have given to all of us minnows. PS: Jean says "Hi" from her days in Tottenham Unwaged Centre.
Ben Cowderoy & Jean Aslett, Doncaster
Dave Morris replies: Hi! Workplaces always seem to be a battleground as those in charge constantly seek more profits and less costs, more control over the workforce, and more work for less pay. Don't give up in standing up for your rights! When I was a postman I was very active in my union branch - by supporting each other in the workplace, workers can defend their pay and conditions, and their basic rights to organise and speak out. You mention the Tottenham Unwaged Centre we helped to run as volunteers in the 1980s... we created a real spirit together then. To me that's what it's all about - building up solidarity and community spirit among people, and educating each other.
Since the case ended my main activity is once again in my local community in Haringey, North London. Here, there are over 120 local residents associations, 25 'friends of parks' groups, and a whole range of community-based groups and campaigns. I believe all communities are entitled to traffic calming, decent and affordable homes for everyone, extensive community facilities, improvements to our parks, better healthcare and education etc. To that end I am now involved with the local Federation of Residents Associations. I'm also working with a local radical 'solidarity organisation' supporting grass-roots campaigns and spreading libertarian and anarchist ideas, ie calling for a society run by people themselves, rather than by governments and companies.
I feel that the couple should have been given high honours in the Queen's annual awards. What this pair did is certainly more important than sailing around the world for another multinational like B&Q and being paid a fortune in the process. I have not eaten in a McDonald's restaurant since the 1970s and having seen the way the food was reared for them I don't intend to put my life at risk!
JW Lee, Fareham
Great stuff. Having read so many books by the likes of Pilger, Chomsky and Palast, particularly on the subject of globalisation, it's something I hope we see more often.
Bob Duffy, London
Inspiring. People power versus corporate power. We really can win, for we are the many and they are the few.
Roshan Pedder, Molesey, Surrey
Dave Morris replies: I'm sure ordinary people could do a much better job running the world ourselves. Considering all the wars, oppression, poverty and now the environmental threats to our very future, we could hardly do a worse job!
McLibel is the first time I've watched Storyville. I'm nearly 63 and I'm happy to say that I still get angry when I watch programmes like this. I've always had strong opinions about the world we live in, but I wish I (and people like me) had a fraction of the courage of the people concerned. This is true 'reality' television - please give me more so that I can maintain my anger instead of just accepting that this is the world we live in.
Mike Swift, Sheffield
This compelling film deserves to be seen more widely. It left me with a real sense of what is possible with dogged determinism. Even if I did not always agree with their politics you had to admire this pair. Very succinct and nicely put together. Is there anything else from this group available?
Chris Thomas, London
Dave Morris replies: Yes - much more! Please check out www.mcspotlight.org and www.spannerfilms.net. Also www.schnews.org.uk, www.corporatewatch.org and www.indymedia.org.uk [The BBC is not responsible for the content of external links].
This was an inspirational film on what can happen when someone makes a stand against a bully. The final victory in the European Court must be like finally being let out of a courtroom prison after 15 years. My nine-year-old daughter tells me now why fast food is unhealthy and is learning about nutrition at school.
Paul Cook, London
A question for David and Helen: if you'd known it was going to take 15 years of your life, would you have fought the case?
Christine Peters, Norwich
Helen Steel replies: It's hard to say! It would have been very daunting to have known at the start that the case would last 15 years, but at the same time the only alternative was to apologise. I think for that reason we would still have fought the case, because we felt there was nothing to apologise for; that too many people had already been silenced by the threat of libel cases; and that if we want to create a better society then people must be free to make criticisms of how society is currently run and put forward alternative ideas.
Corporations and governments want us to feel daunted, so that we don't get together and fight back, and they can continue making profits and having power over us all. We can take inspiration from struggles around the world including people standing up to injustice even though it may cost them their lives (such as trade unionists in Columbia), and although we may face hardship, in the long run it's the only way that a better society can be created. Also, although there is hardship there are also many benefits and positive experiences to be gained; a sense of solidarity and community, new friendships, many amazing people to meet, and the sense of satisfaction when some improvement is achieved. In some ways it's harder to sit back and continue to be dissatisfied/put up with injustice and oppression for the rest of our lives...
What can I say? Never have I seen a film with such a powerful story about real people struggling in a system with the cards stacked so heavily against them. The environment, working conditions, health, animal welfare, politics, advertising and the media - how many stories cover so many important issues and examine the role multinationals play in them in our lives?
Devin Ashwood, Glastonbury, Somerset
Excellent to see this on TV. I've seen the original version on video and thought the updated one was very good. To all those who would like to see it on BBC One or Two, please contact them; the more people that ask, the more chance there is of this important and inspiring documentary being shown to a wider audience.
Lynda Hammond, Broadstairs, Kent
The programme was utterly compelling, and far better than many documentaries. It just goes to show how good television can be when someone actually has something to say. There is so much 'presentation' now and so little content. This programme had real content and that's why it was so good. Three cheers for Dave Morris and Helen Steel. I salute their courage and tenacity. McDonald's as a corporation got greedy. If they had been content to listen to criticism and attempt to improve the standard of the food they were selling, they would be in a much better position now. The story was rather like a parable on avarice versus truth and integrity. Thank you.
Barbara, Bristol
Saw this in the cinema and have been inspired ever since.
Phil Wilcox, Manchester
A wonderful programme, well made. It gives one hope and it thoroughly deserves to reach a much wider audience. Much of it made Michael Moore's work look very amateurish. Please show it again! On BBC Two?
Miles Newman, Lancaster
Superb! A rare glimpse into the murkier side of big business. The BBC has finally shown something that is against corporate smears, lies, half-truths and deception. Worth the licence fee alone.
Sam Freke, Bristol
I just wanted to say what a fantastic film and what a fantastic, motivating thing that Helen, Dave and all the other people in the McLibel Support Campaign have done. I have so much respect for you all. Well done also Fran/Spanner Films for a great documentary.
Doug Paulley, Wetherby
This is one of the best and most inspirational documentaries that
I have seen. Dave, Helen, Franny and the team have proved that the ordinary, decent and brave people in society can take on a giant bully of a corporation and win. This programme deserves a top award!
Martin O Neill, Lurgan, N Ireland
I've made a mini-opera based on the story and film with kind permission from Franny Armstrong - this link has an excerpt [The BBC is not responsible for the content of external websites].
Robert Davidson, Brisbane Australia
What a brilliant film! This was the most moving piece of TV I have seen in years. My husband has sworn never to eat McDonald's again and would like to see other corporate giants challenged. Emotive and strong, hard-hitting but compassionate. Please show more films like this.
Mandy Dockery, Hitchin, Herts
I know I am an interested party, but the film is superb. Everyone I have spoken to who saw it thought so too. It deserves to go to BBC Two where it would get fabulous reviews.
Keir Starmer (McLibel Lawyer), London
Although it has taken the Beeb several years to pick up the courage to broadcast this film, I think that it was one of the most wonderful documentaries I have ever seen. I felt truly inspired by Dave and Helen's pure heroism and equally horrified by the footage of the chicken factory. This was filmmaking of the highest order.
Steve Brickle, Biarritz, France
I thought this was an excellent summary highlighting the way normal people can make a difference to the world (if they put enough hard work in). They provide valuable information usually hidden to the public. It deserves a much bigger audience though and should be shown on a terrestrial channel. Not everyone has a digital box yet.
Ben, London
Congratulations on finding the courage finally to show Franny Armstrong's truly inspiring film (the BBC, like C4, felt it couldn't show the original film - McLibel: Two Worlds Collide for fear of - er - libel). Now - please show it to a much wider audience on BBC Two. However, could the BBC please try to stop using the hackneyed phrase 'David and Goliath' in its publicity for the film? It's not only rather demeaning of Helen and Dave, but, as Dave himself points out in the film itself, it also completely misrepresents the nature of the conflict in which McDonald's and its opponents are involved.
Julian Petley, Professor of Film and TV Studies, Brunel University
This film alone was worth paying my licence fee for. Well done BBC Four, well done Dave and Helen for highlighting important issues and informing us all. Made me rent and watch Super Size Me the following night, on McDonald's 50th birthday - how appropriate.
Alea, Kingston
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