Sean McAllister is widely acknowledged as one of Britain's finest documentary filmmakers. His previous films include Settlers, about everyday life in Jerusalem, and The Minders, an affectionate look at two of Saddam Hussein's Ministry of Information minders.
BBC Four: How long did you spend with Samir Peter before you began filming?
Sean McAllister: A few weeks - just hanging out really, looking for a story and then realising that the story was sat in front of me. That's the best process - filming wherever you've found yourself most comfortable.
BBC Four: What was it about Samir that you felt was worth your attention?
SM: It takes a long time to make my films and I don't really want to do them with people I don't want to be with. So first and foremost I enjoyed his company. Secondly, he spoke very good English, which was important, especially as I don't speak Arabic. But ultimately there was a story. It seemed an interesting premise that at the point of Iraqi liberation here was a man who was anti-Saddam and said quite up front, "My country is finished now. I'm leaving". As soon as I met his daughter Sahar and realised that she was pro-Saddam then I knew that this was a great area of conflict which brought in the whole political sphere, but through the family rather than in any contrived way
BBC Four: Sahar completely rationalises her love of Saddam. Were you really surprised by that?
SM: Yes - very shocked. Do you think it's normal?
BBC Four: No, but when you hear her reasons I understand where she's coming from.
SM: She didn't make sense to me at first. I was not going in there to condemn the Americans. I was against the war, but when it happened I thought here were people who were now going to be free and that a lot of positive things were going to happen.
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When I got there in January 2004 I had this naïve mind-set and all I heard were moans. I thought this was due to a lack of information and that Sahar was misled. She kept trying to tell me that they'd been fed all these dreams but nothing's ever happened. I was being very rational and saying that it
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Sean & Samir at the Dead Sea |
takes time. Then about eight months later, when I was looking back at the rushes, everything she said made complete sense. Nothing has happened. Worse - it has descended into absolutely nightmare chaos.
BBC Four: I watched The Minders again recently, which is an affectionate look at Iraq and Iraqis in many ways. How did you feel about the state of Iraq now compared to when you were there in 1998?
SM: I thought that The Minders played a really important role when it came out in 1998. You saw Iraqis enjoying a pint of beer, talking about football and dancing in discos. I tried to give it a human touch because up until then Iraq was covered with either heavy analysis that no one understands or a news/current affairs angle. After making The Minders I used to come back to my home town in Hull and people would say, "God it must have been so dangerous." And I'd say, "No. It was much safer than a Saturday night in Hull!" Under Saddam it was. Now the lid's been taken off the pressure cooker and all hell is let loose. You see really decent middle-class families totally in despair. When I left Iraq last summer there was a group of women who would stay outside the school gates in 55ºC sun for six hours for fear of their children being kidnapped. The more you see of these situations, the more desperately unbelievable it becomes. It's just mind-boggling.
BBC Four: You were in Iraq when things began to get very dangerous for Westerners. How did you cope with that?
SM: At first in January, February and March we'd sit and talk about kidnapping, but it all escalated in April. I was low-key with Samir, just driving around believing that it would never happen to us. That's how you keep yourself sane. I remember in June or July sitting around the
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hotel bar and I was the only person that hadn't been in someway kidnapped. I don't mean long-term, the way [French journalist] Georges Malbrunot was kidnapped, but Remy, a close friend of mine, had a Kalashnikov against the back of his head in the desert one day outside Fallujah. Armand, the French journalist
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Samir Peter at the piano |
from Le Figaro, was kidnapped and held for six hours. Steve from the Sunday Times was picked up and had a gun against his head with this woman. I think they were held for a day or two, were beaten up and had computers and money taken. Ken Bigley used to come to our hotel for a beer and packet of crisps at around four or five o'clock in the afternoon every day. That was sickening and really brings it home.
BBC Four: A lot of documentaries have come out of Iraq. How do see yourself as a documentary filmmaker within the context of all the media covering Iraq?
SM: I don't know. In a way it would be interesting for others to judge.
You always think that you're not really making a film when you're hanging out with someone for so long. A lot of what I shot with Samir is the same mundane sort of stuff I would do making a film in Britain with somebody. But that's what I think is important because it ends up being a human story within a political context rather than a political film. In a funny kind of way it didn't do well at certain festivals because it wasn't hammering America like Fahrenheit 9/11. But Sundance has taken it - they enjoy that more subtle kind of approach.
BBC Four: What is Samir's current situation?
SM: He's in Amman with his son and daughter. I was on the phone to him yesterday. He was having difficulty getting a visa to come to the premiere at Sundance. But he was also crying because his neighbour, who I knew, had been killed. He was driving through an area where the resistance had tried to attack the Americans. The Americans just spray around everybody. He got a bullet in his head and a bullet in his petrol tank. Thirty years old with three kids. He burnt away in his car.
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