In 2003 Sabina Guzzanti's satirical television show RaiOt was cancelled after just one episode following a suit for defamation from Silvio Berlusconi's Mediaset TV network. Her film, Viva Zapatero, tells the story.
BBC Four: What was the thinking behind this film after your TV show was cancelled?
Sabina Guzzanti: I thought it was an interesting story because normally censorship is something that's hidden. They make up excuses to say that it's not censorship - that the audience isn't big enough or some economical reason. In this case I had a lot of proof that it was political censorship, a lot of witnesses, and a lot of interesting circumstances that allowed me to explain, not just this case, but the mechanism for which censorship is very common in a democratic society.
BBC Four: How did Rory Bremner become involved?
Sabina Guzzanti: I often come to London so I know Rory Bremner's programme and I like him very much. I was in London to interview Bill Emmott, the former editor of the Economist, so I just contacted Rory to explain this project to him. He was very generous. He wrote a sketch for us and we did it during a small break in the recording of his programme. He was very important for the movie and after he became involved it really changed. I had just wanted to do a simple documentary to tell the truth about my story and the mechanism of censorship. What his involvement allowed us to do was make the issue larger. It became more about what satire is by having the testimony of other satirists.
BBC Four: The definition of satire by some of the people you interview is certainly unusual. Did that surprise you?
Sabina Guzzanti: Yes, I was very surprised. They just don't know what satire is. It's not just right-wing politicians who think satire is something light-hearted that humanises politicians so they look more popular. It's not that they are nasty or lying, they just don't know. They are on a completely different cultural level. In Italy we have had such a quick cultural change. When I was a teenager many things were obvious, like the freedom of expression to oppose those in power and the value of being critical. After ages it has changed so quickly that a lot of people just ignore that there's another way to see things.
BBC Four: Why do you think that has happened?
Sabina Guzzanti: This is a big issue. A lot of this reformation happened through television, for sure, and especially through Berlusconi's television in Italy because public television can be oppressive and be very controlled. It has always had some common values, like not being too extreme, using clean language and not offending religion. What Berlusconi introduced with his private television was a philosophy of marketing and money above everything else. He's also launched a big war against culture: always making fun about cultural people, saying they are boring, they are not understandable, they are physically weak and they can't have sex properly! As an approach this is quite typical of fascism.
BBC Four: There are a few instances in the film where Berlusconi and his government are called fascist. That's a strong claim to make.
Sabina Guzzanti: It is strong, and obviously it's a different situation today; it's a completely different way to have control of people. They don't need physical violence, it's enough to cut off people's access to powerful media and contact from the majority of Italians who don't have a clue what is going on in their own country. But what's more interesting than any parallel I make between Berlusconi and fascism is how his government and Berlusconi personally have so successfully put fascism back. He's built up the post-Fascist party that was completely destroyed before him. He's allowed them to become strong again, big again and they are now in the government. They made a big campaign to say that fascism, in the end, was not so bad, that we had benefited from it and that the only mistake was the alliance with Germany; apart from that it was a very good regime and Mussolini was a very clever man. We have a lot of debate about Mussolini on television every day. There are a lot books coming out about how Mussolini was a great man. All the time on television you have Mussolini's relatives giving testimony about how great a man he was. Berlusconi is building up this connection with the past.
BBC Four: Do you think Berlusconi will win the upcoming election?
Sabina Guzzanti: No. I don't think so at all unless he does some trick. He's been very unpopular for many years.
BBC Four: So if Romano Prodi wins will the media laws change?
Sabina Guzzanti: No, it will continue for sure. To make even small changes you need a lot of support and although it's possible, it's unlikely that Prodi will win a huge majority. Inside his coalition half the politicians don't want to stop Berlusconi's control of the media, they just want to have part of it. So they don't have any intention to change things and have declared it openly many times.
BBC Four: What fundamental changes would you like to see in Italy regarding the media?
Sabina Guzzanti: The first thing to do is reform public television, and and we have a big campaign to do this. Even before Berlusconi, public television in Italy had always been under the direct control of political parties. This of course is a big obstacle to independent information. We would like them to do what Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero did in Spain, which why the film is called Viva Zapatero. [The prime minister has launched wide reforms of Spanish television].
BBC Four: Are there plans to show the film on Italian television?
Sabina Guzzanti: Not on television but the film has been shown with great success on the independent cinema circuit. It was also shown at the Venice Film Festival in a clandestine way because the director didn't want it screened. Nobody knew the movie was there, it wasn't presented by the festival, but we did show it and it had a 15 minute standing ovation, the longest of the festival. That became a news story so people became aware of the movie and that they could see it at the cinema. In Italy cinema is not doing well at all and we no longer have a tradition of documentaries. We had a huge tradition until the 1970s, then documenters just disappeared. This is the first documentary since Fahrenheit 9/11 that has had success in the cinema.
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