Barak Goodman's previous documentaries include Scottsboro: An American Tragedy. He spoke to us about making The Fight, and the appeal of Joe Louis and Max Schmeling.

BBC Four: What was the appeal of these two characters?
Barak Goodman: I always look first to story and I think what this has in common with Scottsboro is fairly ordinary people put into political situations for which they are not necessarily prepared but are forced to shoulder. I think both Louis and Schmeling, aside from their extraordinary athleticism, were ordinary men of their time required to act as surrogates for whole ideologies and peoples. Watching how they handle it is really what's the film's about. I also love sports and boxing and the culture of boxing.

BBC Four: What do you see as the defining characteristics of each man?
BG: Definitely for Schmeling it's expediency. I don't know if anyone can really judge him, but he clearly acted opportunistically over this period of time. He was a very ambitious man who perhaps let that ambition get the best of him in certain situations.

With Joe Louis it's a harder thing to say. I think he was quite brave, given who he was and where he came from, to make that turn around between the first and second fights. It really took the measure of him in a lot of ways. A lot of fighters fold after they're defeated like that and nobody had more expectations thrust upon him than Joe Louis. This guy was a god to African-Americans who were just beginning to push against the racial status quo. When he lost that first fight it was such a tremendous blow to African-American pride and aspirations that many ordinary people would have wilted under that disappointment. I think for him to stand up, pull himself back together and for the first time fight for himself not for others, really said something about the guy.

BBC Four: Was the political context important to each of them or do you think they were just interested in achieving their goals as sportsmen?
BG: That's what they both said throughout their careers, "We are not political figures; we are simply sportsmen". In fact they said it so often it was almost protesting too much. Whether or not they wanted to be, or aspired to, or easily took it on, they were forced to be political figures and there's no getting away from that. In some ways, whatever they did would have had political consequences. It was disingenuous for either one of them to just think they were sportsmen. They couldn't be once their countries and their races had adopted them so thoroughly.

BBC Four: Is it possible to overstate the significance of sporting events like this during the Depression?
BG: The effect was fleeting, although less so for African-Americans. I think Joe Louis' continuing importance has been much underestimated as far as the awakening of racial pride is concerned. But these momentary things were important in this unrelenting gloom of the Depression. People still hitch their moods to sporting events but I don't think any other contest has had as great an impact. The Louis-Schmeling rematch really was seen as a prelude to World War II. There was a sense, especially among Jews, that Nazism was invincible, so when Schmeling went down it was even more than symbolism. It really meant something to people.

BBC Four: The fight footage looks absolutely amazing. Did you have to restore that archive film?
BG: We really didn't have to do much restoration. It was, however, a very difficult process to acquire it. [American sports network] ESPN owns nearly all the good boxing footage in the world, and they charge a lot of money for it. We wanted to find another source and ultimately we did after many months of chasing down rumours. We heard that Jack Warner of Warner Brothers had taken a 35mm print of this fight and stashed it away in a private collection somewhere. A researcher found it for us, so the second fight is largely from this Jack Warner print. It does look great.

BBC Four: The original commentary is also fantastic.
BG: I love the fight call. It's funny because the radio commentator, Clem McCarthy, took great liberties when he was calling the fight so editing his version to the final film was really difficult. It was either behind or he was making things up. It was really a challenge to get the call to coincide with what we are seeing on the film!

 THE FIGHT HOMEPAGE