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Ray discusses the documentary Pensioned Off, following his involvement with people whose pensions have failed.
BBC Four: Can you tell us a bit more about how this latest programme came about?
Ray Gosling: After doing the Bankrupt film, which had an enormous response, I got interested in bankruptcy and firms that went bankrupt. A firm can be taken over by another and that new combined firm go bankrupt again, all the time reducing staff. Suddenly, the most loyal and hardworking staff who are still left out of the work force, find the pension fund has gone. One of the reasons this happens is that the first charges on bankruptcy are trustees and administrators. There isn’t any fiddling, but people are left desperate working into their sixties in places like the steelworks of Sheerness and car plants in Wolverhampton. My heart went out to these people. I then followed the workers campaign for justice and joined them at the Labour Party conference in 2003.
BBC Four: The film makes reference to people being failed by a 'capitalist system'. Do you think this is a purely political issue?
Ray Gosling: No it's not. I'm interested in the capitalist system as we have it - and I'm not necessarily against the system - but it penalises very badly the poorer people who try to help themselves.
Young people are constantly hammered - they get charged more for everything they do in the capitalist system. And that's the same thing that happens at the end of your life; those on small amounts get terribly done.
BBC Four: If you could wave a magic pensions wand, how would you change things for people facing retirement?
Ray Gosling: I've got a state pension now and I'm very grateful, but there ought to be some band that protects people at the beginning and end of their lives on low incomes. A future chancellor could set the band at £200-£300 a week and say as long as you're not fiddling you're ok. And I would double the old age pension and tax the very wealthy more.
BBC Four: Contributors spoke of a moral and ethical need to look after people, but do you think people will do this?
Ray Gosling: We just have to…I remember being in a working men's club and they'd lost their pensions. They phoned up the fund administrators and were warned that before they could discuss the case the phone call would be charged at £40 an hour. That's disgusting and humiliating to someone who has given up 40 years of their life. There shouldn't be charges like that; out of my bankruptcy everyone makes a profit except me. I owed £5k which became £100k.
BBC Four: It was moving to see you clearing out some of your possessions during filming.
Ray Gosling: I don't think I'd be able to do it without being forced to do it, oddly enough [laughs].
I've got the final room to sort and I'm not sure what to do, a lot of the stuff is quite valuable in an archival way. It's painful, but lots of life is.
BBC Four: Have you ever thought about applying for a preservation order for your amazing archive?
Ray Gosling: [Laughs] I don't want to be museum-ified; I've lived my life right up to the state pension without anything like that. I've just got to face this business of downsizing. I'm moving from a big house to a unit in a block. I like the people there and I've always been close to people.
BBC Four: It doesn't feel as though the Ray Gosling story is by any means over. Would you be interested in documenting the next chapter?
Ray Gosling: I hope the story isn't over! And I'd like to document the next chapter. I enjoy talking about myself, but it's also for the other things you can do on the way. In this second film, I've been able to spotlight these brave and courageous workers, and in a third film I'd be able to help them 'proud up'. I don't know if that's a word now, but it means to make people more proud simply by you being there with them. Even the people living in the block might be proud to have a Z-list celebrity like me living with them!
BBC Four: Since making the film have you seen any positive changes for the people or the issue generally?
Ray Gosling: The government are going to do something for those who lost pensions, but they won't necessarily recompense them fully. They'll buy them off with a half-way stage, and in future pension funds will be protected. But we now live in a world with very, very few workers, lots of people are on short-term contracts, and they don't have pension rights, so the whole thing needs sorting out. We just haven't got socialism or a just, proper society yet, and we have to work on to get it.
BBC Four: Do you have a last word for anyone who watches the programme or reads this interview?
Ray Gosling: Don't be sad for me. Have courage to grasp at life whether young or old. For the young I hope you have a good life like I've had, and for the old, don't go into rancour and bitterness when things go wrong - I haven't and it served me right and I can smile in the morning.
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