Kátia Lund co-directed the Oscar-winning film City of God. She lives and works in Brazil.
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BBC Four: Why did you decide to make the City of Men series?
Katia Lund: In 2000, Fernando Meirelles and I were preparing for City of God: putting together the cast, working on the script and developing the style. In December of that year Fernando was invited to do an episode for a series on TV but he said that unless we could use this short as a rehearsal for City of God we wouldn't do it.
BBC Four: So the pilot for City of Men was made before the feature film?
KL: That first episode, called Golden Gate, was made before City of God as a rehearsal for City of God. That's where Fernando and I developed the style, the acting, editing and all that. At first the TV company, Globo, was very worried that it was going to be amateurish because they'd never used non-professional actors before. In Brazil it's very rare for black people to be on television at all. It was the first time something had been shot completely outside this television system, which is almost a monopoly in Brazil, and when we delivered the tape they couldn't believe it. They said, "We can't put this on the air!"
BBC Four: Really, they reacted badly to it?
KL: Yeah, because it's so realistic, these things were never talked about that way on television. For example, they said, "You can't have children with cocaine in their hands. You can imply it but you can't show it". But isn't that more dangerous?
The story was about these two kids and how they get more and more caught up - they owe the drug dealers, they manage to pay them off and then the drug dealers ask them for a little favour and offer them a bunch of money. They promise they're never going to get involved, but at that point they're thinking twice and it ends that way, with them trying to decide whether to take the money or not. But the television wanted a happy ending, so they said that we had to put a voiceover saying, "I will never again become involved with the drug dealers". It was very funny. They put it on the air at 11 o'clock at night, they didn't advertise it at all and it was a huge hit with the public and the critics. That's when they turned around and asked for a series. We couldn't do it then because we were doing City of God, but we agreed to do it after that.
BBC Four: Did you use a lot of improvisation in the episodes you shot?
KL: Yes, even City of God is based on a lot of improvisation. There is a script but we tell the actors what their intention is in a scene, what's going to happen and then we say "Action" and they make it up. They never look at a script and it's always free-flowing and people talk over each other. We wanted to capture their energy and that's what makes it feel real.
BBC Four: Watching the first couple of episodes, they're very entertaining, but you're also addressing quite big themes. Was it difficult to balance those two directions?
KL: It was pretty easy because there is so much humour and irony in reality, and absurdity in the way things work. The point of view of a 12-year-old is ideal because they ask literal questions. It's almost like Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer - Huckleberry Finn always asks the literal questions while Tom Sawyer is the player. Huckleberry Finn is always asking the stupid questions which are actually not stupid questions. That age group is perfect because they face so many dangers and so many temptations and their eyes are opening up to the world. And you worry about them because they are kids.
BBC Four: What are you working on now?
KL: I'm doing an episode for a feature-length film called All the Invisible Children. There are going to be seven episodes: John Woo is doing one for China, Ridley Scott is doing one for England, Emir Kusturica is doing one for Serbia. So I'm going to San Paolo to shoot my 15-minute section.
BBC Four: And are you ever tempted to leave Brazil for Hollywood?
KL: It was never my objective. In Brazil you cannot survive as a film director - you can survive by doing advertising and support your hobby as a film director. So you have to do it with your left hand while doing something else. If you go to Hollywood you can work on your own films full-time, but then you have a boss. And we're not used to having bosses. I'm looking at projects in the States, I've got some development deals, but I'm not sure. I'm writing a script at the moment and the ideal thing for me would be to write my next project, get the funding and produce it myself - that would give me more control.
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